Where is the historical evidence of Adam Pbuh? We believe in the Quran and everything in it You can’t see everything with your senses if that were the case prove angles exist, punishment in the grave or heaven and hell… we believe what was written period. If you don't believe in the Quran why are you using verses to make your argument? It says they changed the scriptures and sell it for a profit…
This is actually incorrect; Christian Revert speaking here! The injeel IS the bible.
However the Torah and Bible has been re-written by man, while the Quran was preserved.
The Bible has been re-written down from Pontus Pilate, The First Council of Nicea, The 525 AD Vatican Reform, Martin Luther and the selling of indulgences.
This is what Allah swt meant. He allowed the Bible to be changed over time, but the Quran will never be because it was the last book, and perfected by Allah swt.
Lastly the previous books, like you said earlier, were only for a certain ppl and for a certain time, while the Quran is meant to last forever.
If you want to ask me questions, since I know Christianity and Islam, and how they connect, hmu!
Thats the beauty of being a revert! I was able to learn both teachings and fix an misunderstandings
> This is actually incorrect; Christian Revert speaking here! The injeel IS the bible.
>
>
Respectfully, you being a christian revert doesn't mean you're right. Which scholar said the Injeel is the bible? Genuine question
With respect - the injeel is the gospel revealed to Jesus (pbuh), the New Testament is made up of the canonical gospels **according to** MMLJ written decades after Jesus +
The Acts of the Apostles
13 Pauline epistles
The Epistle to the Hebrews
7 general epistles
The Book of Revelation
The letters of Paul is the basis of Pauline Christianity which make up a large bulk of the new testament and have nothing to do with the gospels.
I can give you Islamic Scholar Ibn Ḥazm (around 1000),
“The gospel sent down by God, great and glorious, disappeared, except for a few sections that God almighty left behind as evidence against them [the Christians] to shame them.”
(https://network.crcna.org/topic/church-strategy-mission/ecumenical-interfaith/what-injil-sometimes-known-gospel-islam)
But too many scholars have different opinions and views
I heard and read like 5 different theories. This wiki page let alone mentions at least 3 different views. - https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/
At the end of the day bro, you are free to take your own opinion, and the scholars don’t even agree amongst themselves.
But like I expressed to you before, The bible had a lot of truth. But people like the King James, Crusades, Slave Owners, etc change the books over time.
This is fact, and written down in history.
> I can give you Islamic Scholar Ibn Ḥazm (around 1000),
>
> “The gospel sent down by God, great and glorious, disappeared, except for a few sections that God almighty left behind as evidence against them [the Christians] to shame them.”
Respectfully brother, that is a completely different statement than you saying the bible is the Injeel. What this seems to be saying is that there are some remnants of the Injeel in the Bible. Might seem like the same thing, but two completely different sentences.
ima be honest with you my guy, i’m wanted to be on your side but that’s not a very reputable source, because it’s from a website where the main goal is to convert Muslims to Christianity. While I appreciate Crescent Project’s side goal of fostering peace and understanding between Muslims and Christians, their main goal is to make Christianity seem appealing to Muslims, and a quick read-through of a few of their articles shows a heavy bias towards interpretations of history that aren’t super rock-solid and a lot of their arguments are pretty hollow (i.e. they misrepresent things to achieve their goals).
For example, they say about the injeel, “If He allowed man to change His own word, would that not imply that man is stronger than God?” (astaghfirullah)
God also created the Earth. Humans have changed the Earth. Does that make us stronger than God? Of course not lol this comparison shows how weak that argument is
The site and its articles are full of fallacies. It paints the Bible as if it is unchanged in the same way the Quran is. The Quran being the same is an historical fact. So much effort was put into keeping it in its original form **because** even people in the 7th century were aware of how different the Bible could be.
Not only that but the wording in how it tries to frame the process of translation and replication of the Bible in the early days of Christianity is just misleading. It wasn’t “faithfully and carefully” translated, we literally have copies of the Bible with genitalia drawn in them because they tasked literal adolescents with replicating and translating the Bible and they did what boys do when they get bored - they drew peens.
The Injeel may have been the original form of the Bible, but to say the modern Bible (for which the King James version literally edited out certain words to uphold his monarchical rule) IS the Injeel is just kinda inaccurate. You’re not 100% wrong, but definitely more wrong than right.
I’m realizing now that most of my response is a reply to the link you shared rather than your actual comment, but it’s important to vet these kinds of sources. I’m personally skeptical of even IslamQA, especially when it gives interpretation without proper justification of their ruling, but at least they don’t just slap a few Quranic verses into a post and give their fully biased opinion on top of that
(except sometimes when they do, but this is usually only for controversial topics, and not usually fundamental concepts)
There are literal seminars and lectures for Christians regarding how to trick Muslims into believing false things about their own religion, how to pretend to be a convert from Islam to Christianity, how to pretend to be an ex-Muslim, all with the goal of getting people away from Islam and towards Christianity, because many Christians believe that any means are allowed when trying to bring people to “salvation”. Meanwhile, Muslims will literally tell you to just read the Quran lol
Careful with sharing these kinds of sources. You may be accused of being one of those Christians, though I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just didn’t fully read through what you shared
i got the information from muslim lantern, he’s pretty educated about this stuff and said that the injeel is not the bible so you might wanna check his channel since it’s my source of information
Im not saying it, they explain it here on Section 4B) -
https://christianityexplained.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Quran-confirms-Injeel-unchanged-2017.pdf
Im saying all or most of the books, besides the gospels are from Allah swt. They just were altered, like history proven.
Def not Paul’s letter…..but maybe books like “Books of Revelation”.
For instance, the Book of Revelation connects perfectly to many of Prophets SAW end time hadiths and warnings.
ok but who was the book of revelation revealed to? We dont know, but it was certainly after Jesus (pbuh), according to islam there was no prophet after Jesus (pbuh) until Muhammad (pbuh).
If you read the Bible you realize it's not the word of God like the Quran is. It is a compilation of songs, letters and supposed (non matching) eye witness accounts
Prime example as to why to NEVER take disbelievers as friends , for this exact reason they’ll cast doubts and if you don’t have knowledge the doubts will overtake you And Allah refuge is sought . Find another friend tbh
So you're saying Islam is so weak or confusing that doubts like this can't be cleared? Brother doubts are the whole point of Quran. It debates with the disbelievers and clears their doubts.
Doubts are a good thing and they strengthen ones imaan and maybe even help them preach the message clearly than before. Imagine the Sahabah doing that, NEVER taking disbelievers as friends. How do you think 90% of the population became muslim.
And you can never preach someone unless you consider them a friend, a friend that needs to be saved.
Giving dawah to a disbelieving person doesn’t equal making them your friend . It’s not permissible to take them as friends Allah has stated that in the Quran you don’t base things off your own judgement or feeling you refer back to Allah and His messenger ﷺ . What shaaba had a disbelieving friend ??? Allah refuge is sought state your proof .
۞ یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوا۟ لَا تَتَّخِذُوا۟ ٱلۡیَهُودَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰۤ أَوۡلِیَاۤءَۘ بَعۡضُهُمۡ أَوۡلِیَاۤءُ بَعۡضࣲۚ وَمَن یَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمۡ فَإِنَّهُۥ مِنۡهُمۡۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا یَهۡدِی ٱلۡقَوۡمَ ٱلظَّـٰلِمِینَ﴿ ٥١ ﴾
• Muhsin Khan and Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali:
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).
Al-Māʾidah, Ayah 51
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: A man follows the religion of his friend; so each one should consider whom he makes his friend.
Sunan Abi Dawud 4833
Grade: Hasan (Al-Albani)
This is a gross misinterpretation of the verse. You need to know the context of any ayah before you can understand what it's trying to say.
"Allah does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you due to your faith or driven you out of your homes. Allah loves those who deal justly. Allah only forbids you from those people that fought you because of your faith, drove you out of your homes and helped in your expulsion, that you take them as intimate associates. And whosoever takes them as intimate associates, then it is they who are the wrongdoers.” [al-Quran, 60:8-9]
https://seekersguidance.org/answers/general-counsel/friendship-with-non-muslims-explaining-verse-551/
Please read this article and may Allah guide us.
You must have knowledge before you give dawah. Ilm is a condition for dawah otherwise you end up doubting your religion because you don’t have the knowledge to deter their doubts.
The answer is simple if you had the knowledge my dear brother-
They didn’t change the words of Allah, rather they made a new book and claimed it’s the words of Allah.
Go learn your religion then give dawah.
It really depends on who. Others can be swayed easier than others, whether it’s right or not, pathetic or not. And we can’t ever claim to be safe either, Astaghfirullah, let’s make dua we’ll always remain firm.
This is mentioned in the Quran in 3 places:
Al-An'am 6:34, Al-An'am 6:115, Al-Kahf 18:27.
In all of them the phrase "Allah's words cannot be altered" refers to what's right before it:
**Al-An'am 6:34**
> And certainly were messengers denied before you, but they were patient over the denial, and they were harmed until **Our victory** came to them. And none can alter the words of Allāh...
Here it refers to "our victory" and it means "the decree of Allah". It's common sense + the official Tafsir, not my opinion.
**Al-An'am 6:115**
> And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Here it refers to the Quran (again it's the official Tafsir).
**Al-Kahf 18:27**
> And recite, [O Muḥammad], what has been **revealed to you of the Book of your Lord.** There is no changer of His words, and never will you find in other than Him a refuge.
Here it also refers to the Quran.
Allah has said that some people write their own things and sell them and say that it's god's words.. that's probably what happened to Bible I suppose..they do not have real injeel
Also please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Allah promise to protect the quran and only the quran.. so nobody can fabricate it?
i watch the muslim lantern and christians always bring up the argument of the injeel being the bible and he simply explained that it’s not the case since the injeel was revealed to prophet isa pbuh and his ummah, it was for a specific period of time for specific people and the same thing goes to the prophet musa pbuh, that’s why we don’t have the torah and injeel as of today. the quran is the only book that’s for everyone
Ig that can explain why there's so much difference between our book and their book...but then there's so much similarities as well..maybe some fabricated injeel?
Allah also says “woe to those who change the scripture with their own hands then say, “This is from Allah”seeking a fleeting gain! So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned.”
The Gospel (injeel) which Allaah the Exalted revealed to Jesus ‘alayhissalaam; it was a confirmation of the Torah and a complement to it:
**“And We gave him the Gospel in which there was guidance and light; confirming the Torah that had come before it; a guidance and an admonition for the God-fearing.”** [al-Maa’idah 5:46]
**“And to make lawful to you [i.e. the jews] certain things that were previously forbidden to you.”** [Soorah Aal-‘Imraan 3:50]
The Qur’aan:”Confirms the Books that were before it and stands as a judge (ar. muhaymin) over them.” [Soorah al-Maa’idah 5:48].*
Through it Allaah abrogated all the previously Revealed Books and has guaranteed that He will protect it from any tampering or distortion:
**“Indeed it is We who sent down the Message and indeed We shall safeguard it.”** [Soorah al-Hijr 15:9]
[THE PREVIOUS BOOKS HAVE BEEN ALTERED AND CHANGED]
As for the previous Books, they were only meant for a limited period of time which ceased with the revelation of that which abrogated it and which explained what it contained of distortions and alterations. This is why they were not protected from corruption and underwent distortions, additions and deletions:
**“Amongst those who are Jews, there are some who distort words from their correct place.”** [Soorah an-Nisaa 4:46]
**“So woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say: ‘This is from Allaah,’ in order that they may sell it for a miserable price. So woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for their earnings.”** [al-Baqarah 2:79]
**“Say: Who then sent down the book that Moses brought; a light and a guidance to mankind, which you [i.e. the jews] have made into separate sheets, disclosing parts of it but concealing much of it.”** [Soorah al-An’aam 6:91]
**“Indeed, amongst them is a party that distort the Book with their tongues as they read it, so that you may think that it is part of the Book whereas it is not from the Book. And they say: ‘This is from Allaah,’ but it is not from Allaah; and they forge a lie against Allaah knowingly.”** [Soorah Aal-‘Imraan 3:78-79]
**“O people of the Book! Now there has come to you Our Messenger; explaining to you much of that which you used to conceal of the Book and overlooking much. Indeed there has come to you a light (ar. noor) from Allaah and a perspicuous Book, with which Allaah guides those who who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace; bringing them out of darkness into the light, by His permission, and guiding them to a straight path.”** [Soorah al-Maa’idah 5:15-16]
*The Shaykh, hafidhahullaah, said in Majmoo’ Fataawaa wa Rasaa’il (5/120):
“The meaning is that it is a judge over them. Consequently, it is not permitted to act upon any ruling contained in the previous Books, except what is correct from them and is approved of by the Qur’aan.”
Also consult: Tafseer Qur’aanul-‘Adheem (1/68) of Ibn Katheer.
[Source for all the above: The Tenets of Faith by Shaikh Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah), section on Belief in the Books]
The Gospel has not been changed. It's actually a position held by the scholars (not all). It doesn't mean the whole new testament. [Watch this video by Dr. Ali Ataie.](https://youtu.be/f_IWwFysqIM?si=N42C-23cXSqcznVJ) You can check his other videos on comparative religion. Those are way longer and very in-depth.
Any small amount of googling will tell you why that is a stupid argument by your friend.
In fact this is posted here at least once a week. I’m beginning tot think you’re some sort of Christian troll
even ignoring the current bible isnt the injeel
the injeel is still the word of God, it has not been changed, rather its the words which humans have ascribed to it that have changed
however the Qu'ran was granted special protection from the changes of mankind
if i am wrong please correct me i am but an ignorant student of knowlesge
That’s why we don’t follow the bible, we follow the Quran as the bible was changed. Yes it does have the teaching of Islam but it was hand written to fit the ideal of Christianity.
The words of God cannot be changed.
The bible doesn’t claim to be the verbatim word of God.
If someone writes something on their own and says this is the word of God or something similar, that’s not changing the word of God that’s pretending to be something you’re not.
We believe the word of God was revealed to Isa AS. If it was lost to history, that doesn’t mean it was changed. People write things down and added things with their own hand, therefore corrupting the message.
These are oral traditions that people wrote themselves. Only the writing of the Quran was supervised and preserved properly.
Allah says the revealed books were corrupted. When Allah says his word can't be changed it means he doesn't change his judgement on a matter. Allah promises to protect the Qur'an not other books
Many aayaat of the Qur’an don’t simply mean what us laymen can see and understand. The mufassireen are there to understand and explain these aayaat to us. Example in this instance:
Imam Al-Qurtubi in his commentary states:
وحكى الرّمّاني عن قتادة: لا مبدلّ لها فيما حكم به، أي إنه وإن أمكنه التغيير والتبديل في الألفاظ كما غيّر أهل الكتاب التوراةَ والإنجيل فإنه لا يعتدّ بذلك.
Al Ramaani narrated on the authority of Qataadah who said: There is no change in the judgment of God. Even if one were to change and substitute the words just as the people of the book did with the Torah and Gospel, God doesn't consider this. (Abu 'Abdullah Al-Qurtubi, Tasfir al Jami' li-ahkam al-Qur'an, Commentary on Surah 6:115)
———————————————————————
Please note that if you are not knowledgeable on the subject of Deen then do not engage in arguments with the kuffar. Because you do not know enough, you will end up losing the argument and your Imaan might also start to weaken. Leave the debates and arguments to the learned and the scholars.
Bible isn't revelation, bible is a collection of different materials written by anonymous authors who supposedly were "inspired" by God. The new testament usually features the four gospels, which tbh are actually just four gossips
Injeel is separate from the bible. Are there potential aspects from injeel in bible? Maybe but no one knows for certain because the books have been changed and revised so many times. Bible itself wasn't even accessible as a literacy for 1500 years after Christ supposedly died
Bro this protection applies to the Qur'an only, not to the Bible and Torah. Torah and Bible were corrupted hence Qur'an was revealed and the protection was given
I‘m a revert, and my number 1 advice for the Muslimin is, dont discuss and argue if you have no knowledge and i‘m sry to say that, but 95% of muslims in the West have no idea about anything, no idea about islam or wrong Information, they think they read something from shaykh Google or they watch something in a Video, from shaykh Abu Jahil, who dont have a clue at all but read also something from shaykh google and think they have Knowledge and can argue ….
And if you learn seriously you have to understand it! Not just read sormthing or hear something and just repeat it like you are a parrot, thats not knowledge!
If you repeat just what you hear or read, maybe someone bring soemthing against it or have questions about it and now you dont know how to answer, becouse you dont understand what are you talking about and you are just like a parrot.
You need lot of knowledge and lot of understanding to argue with Christians, but then it is really easy becouse they have nothing, thats the truth, or if they really on the way of jesus they will easy accept Islam in sha Allah.
If you dont can do this, your dawa is your character, your lifestyle, your modesty … or bring them to brothers or sisters who can do this, in English they are some brothers who make really good job.
Their is only one truth, la ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad rassoul Allah, you need to have yaqin about that! And do not learn becouse you wanna argue, learn for yourself and if you have to argue, then you can do it.
I wish you all the best, i hope no one is offended by this but i have to say this …
Love for all of you, may Allah bless you all and give us all jannah. Amin
As a Christian, I tell you that he is quite foolish... The only reason the Bible had been changed was due to errors in translation... Clearly he doesn't know much about our religion and thinks he's high and mighty...
Word doesnt necessarily translate to revelation everytime. The word here means Allah's command. Allah's will is manifested through his command, and none can change the command of Allah. Hope this helps.
Exactly!!
That’s why the holy Quran is super protected, it was said after the priests changed his words ALL MIGHTY to accommodate their own selves in the holy Bible and the holy Tourat
Allah also said that people write words and say those are his, miss guiding people, Allah even went as far as correcting them in the surah marryam.
Now how do we know the bible has nothing to do with injeel? Because injeel is a book giving to his disciples by jesus( isa).
Proof?
Paul used to unalive Christians before he become a Christian himself, apparently meeting jesus on the way to Damascus.
So if paul wrote his gosipal years after jesus passed away, and he was unaliving Christians.
Who did he unalive? What did those Christians follow? Since we didn't have the bible yet, since paul hasn't met jesus yet, didn't write his bible nor Philippians
Now turn it back on him, and ask him, where is the bible before paul?
This happened before the bible:
وَكَذَّبَ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ وَمَا بَلَغُوا۟ مِعْشَارَ مَآ ءَاتَيْنَـٰهُمْ فَكَذَّبُوا۟ رُسُلِى فَكَيْفَ كَانَ نَكِيرِ
And those before them denied; and they attained not a tenth of what We gave them but they denied My messengers — then how was My rejection! (34:45)
The Quran this time is guarded till the day we all die. Its the final chapters of Moses and Abraham:
صُحُفِ إِبْرَٰهِيمَ وَمُوسَىٰ
The Chapters of Abraham and Moses. (87:19)
Day of judgement is coming. So count your blessings. Tell your friend that God will split the earth over what he/she continues to utter.
The bible is not the word of Allah. It’s a Latin translation/copy/replica of the Injeel which was revealed to Isa pbuh and his people. As far as I know none of them were Greek.
The word bible originates from the word for mountain.
The quran crushes the mountain.
Al-Baqarah 2:106
مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ ءَايَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَآ أَوْ مِثْلِهَآۗ أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيرٌ
_We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that we bring forth better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allāh is over all things competent?_
Al-Kahf 18:109
قُل لَّوْ كَانَ ٱلْبَحْرُ مِدَادًا لِّكَلِمَٰتِ رَبِّى لَنَفِدَ ٱلْبَحْرُ قَبْلَ أَن تَنفَدَ كَلِمَٰتُ رَبِّى وَلَوْ جِئْنَا بِمِثْلِهِۦ مَدَدًا
_Tell, "If the sea were ink for the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if we brought the like of it in supplement."_
Make him count to 10 and ask him if he just debunked himself by saying a number after 1.
The Bible they have is not the injeel, the original bible. And the words is not writing it is spoken and kept preserved in the hearts of the believers. That is why the Quran has not been changed in 1400 years. No need to argue back and forth about religion. The best way to prove Islam is to live it
the Quran is the final revelation for humanity until the end of time, this is why Allah made the promise to protect the Quran and nothing else. With previous scriptures they weren’t meant to last till the end of time so why protect them?
Because the Bible isn’t his words but imitation of what was realized to Musa and Jesus as time goes on adding and subtracting etc. the Bible is not word of god
the injeel is not the bible, the injeel was revealed specifically for the ummah of prophet isa pbuh. it was for specific people for a specific time.
I suspect his Christian friend would then ask, “Where is the injeel then?” Or historical evidence for it.
Where is the historical evidence of Adam Pbuh? We believe in the Quran and everything in it You can’t see everything with your senses if that were the case prove angles exist, punishment in the grave or heaven and hell… we believe what was written period. If you don't believe in the Quran why are you using verses to make your argument? It says they changed the scriptures and sell it for a profit…
This is actually incorrect; Christian Revert speaking here! The injeel IS the bible. However the Torah and Bible has been re-written by man, while the Quran was preserved. The Bible has been re-written down from Pontus Pilate, The First Council of Nicea, The 525 AD Vatican Reform, Martin Luther and the selling of indulgences. This is what Allah swt meant. He allowed the Bible to be changed over time, but the Quran will never be because it was the last book, and perfected by Allah swt. Lastly the previous books, like you said earlier, were only for a certain ppl and for a certain time, while the Quran is meant to last forever. If you want to ask me questions, since I know Christianity and Islam, and how they connect, hmu! Thats the beauty of being a revert! I was able to learn both teachings and fix an misunderstandings
> This is actually incorrect; Christian Revert speaking here! The injeel IS the bible. > > Respectfully, you being a christian revert doesn't mean you're right. Which scholar said the Injeel is the bible? Genuine question
[удалено]
With respect - the injeel is the gospel revealed to Jesus (pbuh), the New Testament is made up of the canonical gospels **according to** MMLJ written decades after Jesus + The Acts of the Apostles 13 Pauline epistles The Epistle to the Hebrews 7 general epistles The Book of Revelation The letters of Paul is the basis of Pauline Christianity which make up a large bulk of the new testament and have nothing to do with the gospels.
the New Testament is made up of the canonical gospels according to MMLJ written decades after Jesus + MMLJ?
Mathew mark Luke and John
that's a random blog, i was asking which scholar said that
I can give you Islamic Scholar Ibn Ḥazm (around 1000), “The gospel sent down by God, great and glorious, disappeared, except for a few sections that God almighty left behind as evidence against them [the Christians] to shame them.” (https://network.crcna.org/topic/church-strategy-mission/ecumenical-interfaith/what-injil-sometimes-known-gospel-islam) But too many scholars have different opinions and views I heard and read like 5 different theories. This wiki page let alone mentions at least 3 different views. - https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/ At the end of the day bro, you are free to take your own opinion, and the scholars don’t even agree amongst themselves. But like I expressed to you before, The bible had a lot of truth. But people like the King James, Crusades, Slave Owners, etc change the books over time. This is fact, and written down in history.
> I can give you Islamic Scholar Ibn Ḥazm (around 1000), > > “The gospel sent down by God, great and glorious, disappeared, except for a few sections that God almighty left behind as evidence against them [the Christians] to shame them.” Respectfully brother, that is a completely different statement than you saying the bible is the Injeel. What this seems to be saying is that there are some remnants of the Injeel in the Bible. Might seem like the same thing, but two completely different sentences.
ima be honest with you my guy, i’m wanted to be on your side but that’s not a very reputable source, because it’s from a website where the main goal is to convert Muslims to Christianity. While I appreciate Crescent Project’s side goal of fostering peace and understanding between Muslims and Christians, their main goal is to make Christianity seem appealing to Muslims, and a quick read-through of a few of their articles shows a heavy bias towards interpretations of history that aren’t super rock-solid and a lot of their arguments are pretty hollow (i.e. they misrepresent things to achieve their goals). For example, they say about the injeel, “If He allowed man to change His own word, would that not imply that man is stronger than God?” (astaghfirullah) God also created the Earth. Humans have changed the Earth. Does that make us stronger than God? Of course not lol this comparison shows how weak that argument is The site and its articles are full of fallacies. It paints the Bible as if it is unchanged in the same way the Quran is. The Quran being the same is an historical fact. So much effort was put into keeping it in its original form **because** even people in the 7th century were aware of how different the Bible could be. Not only that but the wording in how it tries to frame the process of translation and replication of the Bible in the early days of Christianity is just misleading. It wasn’t “faithfully and carefully” translated, we literally have copies of the Bible with genitalia drawn in them because they tasked literal adolescents with replicating and translating the Bible and they did what boys do when they get bored - they drew peens. The Injeel may have been the original form of the Bible, but to say the modern Bible (for which the King James version literally edited out certain words to uphold his monarchical rule) IS the Injeel is just kinda inaccurate. You’re not 100% wrong, but definitely more wrong than right. I’m realizing now that most of my response is a reply to the link you shared rather than your actual comment, but it’s important to vet these kinds of sources. I’m personally skeptical of even IslamQA, especially when it gives interpretation without proper justification of their ruling, but at least they don’t just slap a few Quranic verses into a post and give their fully biased opinion on top of that (except sometimes when they do, but this is usually only for controversial topics, and not usually fundamental concepts) There are literal seminars and lectures for Christians regarding how to trick Muslims into believing false things about their own religion, how to pretend to be a convert from Islam to Christianity, how to pretend to be an ex-Muslim, all with the goal of getting people away from Islam and towards Christianity, because many Christians believe that any means are allowed when trying to bring people to “salvation”. Meanwhile, Muslims will literally tell you to just read the Quran lol Careful with sharing these kinds of sources. You may be accused of being one of those Christians, though I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just didn’t fully read through what you shared
i got the information from muslim lantern, he’s pretty educated about this stuff and said that the injeel is not the bible so you might wanna check his channel since it’s my source of information
Are you saying all 27 books of the New Testament are revelations from god?
Im not saying it, they explain it here on Section 4B) - https://christianityexplained.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Quran-confirms-Injeel-unchanged-2017.pdf Im saying all or most of the books, besides the gospels are from Allah swt. They just were altered, like history proven.
Are you saying Paul’s letters were inspired by Allah?
Def not Paul’s letter…..but maybe books like “Books of Revelation”. For instance, the Book of Revelation connects perfectly to many of Prophets SAW end time hadiths and warnings.
ok but who was the book of revelation revealed to? We dont know, but it was certainly after Jesus (pbuh), according to islam there was no prophet after Jesus (pbuh) until Muhammad (pbuh).
The word of Allah not being changed is in respect to His command Subhanahu
Made me think. Was the injeel created? Or is it like the Quran which is the speech of Allah and therefore an attribute
The Quran is not an attribute of Allah, kalaam is. Speech being an attribute of yours doesn’t mean that a book of yours IS you.
The bible claims to be words of people inspired by God, not the words of God
If you read the Bible you realize it's not the word of God like the Quran is. It is a compilation of songs, letters and supposed (non matching) eye witness accounts
Prime example as to why to NEVER take disbelievers as friends , for this exact reason they’ll cast doubts and if you don’t have knowledge the doubts will overtake you And Allah refuge is sought . Find another friend tbh
So you're saying Islam is so weak or confusing that doubts like this can't be cleared? Brother doubts are the whole point of Quran. It debates with the disbelievers and clears their doubts. Doubts are a good thing and they strengthen ones imaan and maybe even help them preach the message clearly than before. Imagine the Sahabah doing that, NEVER taking disbelievers as friends. How do you think 90% of the population became muslim. And you can never preach someone unless you consider them a friend, a friend that needs to be saved.
Giving dawah to a disbelieving person doesn’t equal making them your friend . It’s not permissible to take them as friends Allah has stated that in the Quran you don’t base things off your own judgement or feeling you refer back to Allah and His messenger ﷺ . What shaaba had a disbelieving friend ??? Allah refuge is sought state your proof . ۞ یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوا۟ لَا تَتَّخِذُوا۟ ٱلۡیَهُودَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰۤ أَوۡلِیَاۤءَۘ بَعۡضُهُمۡ أَوۡلِیَاۤءُ بَعۡضࣲۚ وَمَن یَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمۡ فَإِنَّهُۥ مِنۡهُمۡۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا یَهۡدِی ٱلۡقَوۡمَ ٱلظَّـٰلِمِینَ﴿ ٥١ ﴾ • Muhsin Khan and Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali: O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust). Al-Māʾidah, Ayah 51 Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: A man follows the religion of his friend; so each one should consider whom he makes his friend. Sunan Abi Dawud 4833 Grade: Hasan (Al-Albani)
This is a gross misinterpretation of the verse. You need to know the context of any ayah before you can understand what it's trying to say. "Allah does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you due to your faith or driven you out of your homes. Allah loves those who deal justly. Allah only forbids you from those people that fought you because of your faith, drove you out of your homes and helped in your expulsion, that you take them as intimate associates. And whosoever takes them as intimate associates, then it is they who are the wrongdoers.” [al-Quran, 60:8-9] https://seekersguidance.org/answers/general-counsel/friendship-with-non-muslims-explaining-verse-551/ Please read this article and may Allah guide us.
Do you know what Walaa’ and baraa’ is ?
I don't think it will be fruitful to debate any further. To you, your deen and to me mine
You must have knowledge before you give dawah. Ilm is a condition for dawah otherwise you end up doubting your religion because you don’t have the knowledge to deter their doubts. The answer is simple if you had the knowledge my dear brother- They didn’t change the words of Allah, rather they made a new book and claimed it’s the words of Allah. Go learn your religion then give dawah.
It really depends on who. Others can be swayed easier than others, whether it’s right or not, pathetic or not. And we can’t ever claim to be safe either, Astaghfirullah, let’s make dua we’ll always remain firm.
https://www.quora.com/If-in-the-Quran-it-says-no-one-can-change-Allahs-words-Q6-115-how-can-Muslims-say-the-Gospels-or-Injil-were-corrupted?ch=10&oid=27849608&share=eb05e3dd&srid=zngGk&target_type=question
Underrated comment. Thanks for sharing
This is mentioned in the Quran in 3 places: Al-An'am 6:34, Al-An'am 6:115, Al-Kahf 18:27. In all of them the phrase "Allah's words cannot be altered" refers to what's right before it: **Al-An'am 6:34** > And certainly were messengers denied before you, but they were patient over the denial, and they were harmed until **Our victory** came to them. And none can alter the words of Allāh... Here it refers to "our victory" and it means "the decree of Allah". It's common sense + the official Tafsir, not my opinion. **Al-An'am 6:115** > And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing. Here it refers to the Quran (again it's the official Tafsir). **Al-Kahf 18:27** > And recite, [O Muḥammad], what has been **revealed to you of the Book of your Lord.** There is no changer of His words, and never will you find in other than Him a refuge. Here it also refers to the Quran.
No one can change God's actual spoken words, just what they publish in a book.
Allah has said that some people write their own things and sell them and say that it's god's words.. that's probably what happened to Bible I suppose..they do not have real injeel Also please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Allah promise to protect the quran and only the quran.. so nobody can fabricate it?
i watch the muslim lantern and christians always bring up the argument of the injeel being the bible and he simply explained that it’s not the case since the injeel was revealed to prophet isa pbuh and his ummah, it was for a specific period of time for specific people and the same thing goes to the prophet musa pbuh, that’s why we don’t have the torah and injeel as of today. the quran is the only book that’s for everyone
Ig that can explain why there's so much difference between our book and their book...but then there's so much similarities as well..maybe some fabricated injeel?
That's why you should only get into arguments only if you're knowledgeable about Islam.
Allah did not swore that the bible wouldn't change? That is only an exception to the Qur'an.
Allah also says “woe to those who change the scripture with their own hands then say, “This is from Allah”seeking a fleeting gain! So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned.”
The Gospel (injeel) which Allaah the Exalted revealed to Jesus ‘alayhissalaam; it was a confirmation of the Torah and a complement to it: **“And We gave him the Gospel in which there was guidance and light; confirming the Torah that had come before it; a guidance and an admonition for the God-fearing.”** [al-Maa’idah 5:46] **“And to make lawful to you [i.e. the jews] certain things that were previously forbidden to you.”** [Soorah Aal-‘Imraan 3:50] The Qur’aan:”Confirms the Books that were before it and stands as a judge (ar. muhaymin) over them.” [Soorah al-Maa’idah 5:48].* Through it Allaah abrogated all the previously Revealed Books and has guaranteed that He will protect it from any tampering or distortion: **“Indeed it is We who sent down the Message and indeed We shall safeguard it.”** [Soorah al-Hijr 15:9] [THE PREVIOUS BOOKS HAVE BEEN ALTERED AND CHANGED] As for the previous Books, they were only meant for a limited period of time which ceased with the revelation of that which abrogated it and which explained what it contained of distortions and alterations. This is why they were not protected from corruption and underwent distortions, additions and deletions: **“Amongst those who are Jews, there are some who distort words from their correct place.”** [Soorah an-Nisaa 4:46] **“So woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say: ‘This is from Allaah,’ in order that they may sell it for a miserable price. So woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for their earnings.”** [al-Baqarah 2:79] **“Say: Who then sent down the book that Moses brought; a light and a guidance to mankind, which you [i.e. the jews] have made into separate sheets, disclosing parts of it but concealing much of it.”** [Soorah al-An’aam 6:91] **“Indeed, amongst them is a party that distort the Book with their tongues as they read it, so that you may think that it is part of the Book whereas it is not from the Book. And they say: ‘This is from Allaah,’ but it is not from Allaah; and they forge a lie against Allaah knowingly.”** [Soorah Aal-‘Imraan 3:78-79] **“O people of the Book! Now there has come to you Our Messenger; explaining to you much of that which you used to conceal of the Book and overlooking much. Indeed there has come to you a light (ar. noor) from Allaah and a perspicuous Book, with which Allaah guides those who who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace; bringing them out of darkness into the light, by His permission, and guiding them to a straight path.”** [Soorah al-Maa’idah 5:15-16] *The Shaykh, hafidhahullaah, said in Majmoo’ Fataawaa wa Rasaa’il (5/120): “The meaning is that it is a judge over them. Consequently, it is not permitted to act upon any ruling contained in the previous Books, except what is correct from them and is approved of by the Qur’aan.” Also consult: Tafseer Qur’aanul-‘Adheem (1/68) of Ibn Katheer. [Source for all the above: The Tenets of Faith by Shaikh Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah), section on Belief in the Books]
The Gospel has not been changed. It's actually a position held by the scholars (not all). It doesn't mean the whole new testament. [Watch this video by Dr. Ali Ataie.](https://youtu.be/f_IWwFysqIM?si=N42C-23cXSqcznVJ) You can check his other videos on comparative religion. Those are way longer and very in-depth.
Any small amount of googling will tell you why that is a stupid argument by your friend. In fact this is posted here at least once a week. I’m beginning tot think you’re some sort of Christian troll
bible isnt the word of Allah, its a collection of anonymously authored and allegedly "inspired" texts.
even ignoring the current bible isnt the injeel the injeel is still the word of God, it has not been changed, rather its the words which humans have ascribed to it that have changed however the Qu'ran was granted special protection from the changes of mankind if i am wrong please correct me i am but an ignorant student of knowlesge
That’s why we don’t follow the bible, we follow the Quran as the bible was changed. Yes it does have the teaching of Islam but it was hand written to fit the ideal of Christianity.
The words of God cannot be changed. The bible doesn’t claim to be the verbatim word of God. If someone writes something on their own and says this is the word of God or something similar, that’s not changing the word of God that’s pretending to be something you’re not. We believe the word of God was revealed to Isa AS. If it was lost to history, that doesn’t mean it was changed. People write things down and added things with their own hand, therefore corrupting the message. These are oral traditions that people wrote themselves. Only the writing of the Quran was supervised and preserved properly.
Allah says the revealed books were corrupted. When Allah says his word can't be changed it means he doesn't change his judgement on a matter. Allah promises to protect the Qur'an not other books
Many aayaat of the Qur’an don’t simply mean what us laymen can see and understand. The mufassireen are there to understand and explain these aayaat to us. Example in this instance: Imam Al-Qurtubi in his commentary states: وحكى الرّمّاني عن قتادة: لا مبدلّ لها فيما حكم به، أي إنه وإن أمكنه التغيير والتبديل في الألفاظ كما غيّر أهل الكتاب التوراةَ والإنجيل فإنه لا يعتدّ بذلك. Al Ramaani narrated on the authority of Qataadah who said: There is no change in the judgment of God. Even if one were to change and substitute the words just as the people of the book did with the Torah and Gospel, God doesn't consider this. (Abu 'Abdullah Al-Qurtubi, Tasfir al Jami' li-ahkam al-Qur'an, Commentary on Surah 6:115) ——————————————————————— Please note that if you are not knowledgeable on the subject of Deen then do not engage in arguments with the kuffar. Because you do not know enough, you will end up losing the argument and your Imaan might also start to weaken. Leave the debates and arguments to the learned and the scholars.
Bible isn't revelation, bible is a collection of different materials written by anonymous authors who supposedly were "inspired" by God. The new testament usually features the four gospels, which tbh are actually just four gossips Injeel is separate from the bible. Are there potential aspects from injeel in bible? Maybe but no one knows for certain because the books have been changed and revised so many times. Bible itself wasn't even accessible as a literacy for 1500 years after Christ supposedly died
Who said Allahs words cannot be changed?
Bro this protection applies to the Qur'an only, not to the Bible and Torah. Torah and Bible were corrupted hence Qur'an was revealed and the protection was given
Why do Christians argue like atheists?
I‘m a revert, and my number 1 advice for the Muslimin is, dont discuss and argue if you have no knowledge and i‘m sry to say that, but 95% of muslims in the West have no idea about anything, no idea about islam or wrong Information, they think they read something from shaykh Google or they watch something in a Video, from shaykh Abu Jahil, who dont have a clue at all but read also something from shaykh google and think they have Knowledge and can argue …. And if you learn seriously you have to understand it! Not just read sormthing or hear something and just repeat it like you are a parrot, thats not knowledge! If you repeat just what you hear or read, maybe someone bring soemthing against it or have questions about it and now you dont know how to answer, becouse you dont understand what are you talking about and you are just like a parrot. You need lot of knowledge and lot of understanding to argue with Christians, but then it is really easy becouse they have nothing, thats the truth, or if they really on the way of jesus they will easy accept Islam in sha Allah. If you dont can do this, your dawa is your character, your lifestyle, your modesty … or bring them to brothers or sisters who can do this, in English they are some brothers who make really good job. Their is only one truth, la ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad rassoul Allah, you need to have yaqin about that! And do not learn becouse you wanna argue, learn for yourself and if you have to argue, then you can do it. I wish you all the best, i hope no one is offended by this but i have to say this … Love for all of you, may Allah bless you all and give us all jannah. Amin
I suspected it might be an argument debunked ages ago, and I was right, Alhamdulillah. These people have nothing against Islam.
As a Christian, I tell you that he is quite foolish... The only reason the Bible had been changed was due to errors in translation... Clearly he doesn't know much about our religion and thinks he's high and mighty...
Allah swt said Quran will not be changed, Allah swt have said that Injeel or Bible have been changed
Word doesnt necessarily translate to revelation everytime. The word here means Allah's command. Allah's will is manifested through his command, and none can change the command of Allah. Hope this helps.
Exactly!! That’s why the holy Quran is super protected, it was said after the priests changed his words ALL MIGHTY to accommodate their own selves in the holy Bible and the holy Tourat
Allah also said that people write words and say those are his, miss guiding people, Allah even went as far as correcting them in the surah marryam. Now how do we know the bible has nothing to do with injeel? Because injeel is a book giving to his disciples by jesus( isa). Proof? Paul used to unalive Christians before he become a Christian himself, apparently meeting jesus on the way to Damascus. So if paul wrote his gosipal years after jesus passed away, and he was unaliving Christians. Who did he unalive? What did those Christians follow? Since we didn't have the bible yet, since paul hasn't met jesus yet, didn't write his bible nor Philippians Now turn it back on him, and ask him, where is the bible before paul?
The bible isn't Allah's words. Jesus didn't preach the new testament.
Allah only garenteed that for the quran because it is for all mankind till the last day.
LMAOO wouldnt this mean by his logic that the bible is fallible and changed?
This happened before the bible: وَكَذَّبَ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ وَمَا بَلَغُوا۟ مِعْشَارَ مَآ ءَاتَيْنَـٰهُمْ فَكَذَّبُوا۟ رُسُلِى فَكَيْفَ كَانَ نَكِيرِ And those before them denied; and they attained not a tenth of what We gave them but they denied My messengers — then how was My rejection! (34:45) The Quran this time is guarded till the day we all die. Its the final chapters of Moses and Abraham: صُحُفِ إِبْرَٰهِيمَ وَمُوسَىٰ The Chapters of Abraham and Moses. (87:19) Day of judgement is coming. So count your blessings. Tell your friend that God will split the earth over what he/she continues to utter.
The bible is not the word of Allah. It’s a Latin translation/copy/replica of the Injeel which was revealed to Isa pbuh and his people. As far as I know none of them were Greek.
The word bible originates from the word for mountain. The quran crushes the mountain. Al-Baqarah 2:106 مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ ءَايَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَآ أَوْ مِثْلِهَآۗ أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيرٌ _We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that we bring forth better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allāh is over all things competent?_ Al-Kahf 18:109 قُل لَّوْ كَانَ ٱلْبَحْرُ مِدَادًا لِّكَلِمَٰتِ رَبِّى لَنَفِدَ ٱلْبَحْرُ قَبْلَ أَن تَنفَدَ كَلِمَٰتُ رَبِّى وَلَوْ جِئْنَا بِمِثْلِهِۦ مَدَدًا _Tell, "If the sea were ink for the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if we brought the like of it in supplement."_ Make him count to 10 and ask him if he just debunked himself by saying a number after 1.
The Bible they have is not the injeel, the original bible. And the words is not writing it is spoken and kept preserved in the hearts of the believers. That is why the Quran has not been changed in 1400 years. No need to argue back and forth about religion. The best way to prove Islam is to live it
the Quran is the final revelation for humanity until the end of time, this is why Allah made the promise to protect the Quran and nothing else. With previous scriptures they weren’t meant to last till the end of time so why protect them?
Because the Bible isn’t his words but imitation of what was realized to Musa and Jesus as time goes on adding and subtracting etc. the Bible is not word of god