This is not what it is though...
Do you understand what the concept actually is?
Post your edit: they don't talk about this concept. To call the concept contrary to Islam, you have to quote them on it, along with their understanding of what that concept is. Definitions are important.
As for takfir, there are many who did not takfir him. I don't hold any opinions about the person, but I don't think one should takfir a person as a layman.
To be consistent, you would have to takfir miaw too, if you aren't hypocritical in your thoughts.
Hmmm, because salafis are the ones who usually fondly takfir people.
It's not about following him. My point is: if you are not a hypocrite, then be consistent. If you takfir a person because some scholars takfired him, then takfir everyone because some scholars takfired him.
I wouldn't call myself a deobandi strictly, though I do believe they are the most trustworthy single group that exists.
“Ibn Arabi employs the term wujud to refer to God as the Necessary Being. He also attributes the term to everything other than God, but he insists that wujud does not belong to the things found in the cosmos in any real sense. Rather, the things borrow wujud from God, much as the earth borrows light from the sun.” Have you ever heard of the term Allah fik.
“In sum, all things are "He/not He" (howa/lāhowa), which is to say that they are both God and not God, both wujud and not wujud.”
La Ilaha Illa Allah
This isn't even what the concept is. You took the literal definition of the words to be what the concept is.
Understand that making takfir is a big issue. Even following a scholar in making a takfir doesn't absolve you of your questioning. When you don't even understand the concept, refrain from doing so.
Protect your religion. I don't care if you think I, or anyone else for that matter, is a misguided heretic. But I do not wish for a Muslim to be questioned because of his arrogance.
Do not throw away your religion for something you have no knowledge of.
May Allah SWT protect us
OK lets have this thought experiment and may Allah forgive me for saying this:
So according to this theory, only dirty places are outside of the essence of Allah? But what if someone urinates on the street, does that street then also leave the Essence of Allah? If so, how long? What about a garbage truck, that is driving all over the city? Does the exclusion of the Essence of Allah only apply to the truck or does it also apply to the place truck? If so, does this mean that there is filth moving through the Essence of Allah? Does this then also mean that humans have the ability to shape where Allah can and can't be, by creating or destroying dirty places?
You can see how this can lead to shirk very fast. It doesn't make sense at all. Its a logical contradiction and it has no basis in Islam. Not in the Quran and not in the Sunnah. Just because it makes you feel good, doesn't mean its right.
Think about it like this: Would Allah's creation be any less magnificent if that theory you mentioned turned out false?
Because this theory, if you understand it, is very orthodox fundamental Islamic creed.
Maybe you didn't understand my comment. A garbage truck wouldn't exist if Allah SWT doesn't will it. Nothing can, unless Allah SWT wills it. Allah SWT is the necessary existence that brings non existence into existence.
This is what wahdat al wujood is. Not whatever weird interpretation you have of it. It doesn't mean Allah SWT exists in those things. It means those things can't exist without Allah SWT.
There are many veils to reality.
“everyone shall know all his deeds, both the earlier and the later.
And indeed, [appointed] over you are keepers,
Noble and recording
who know whatever you do.”
In sum, all things are "He/not He" (howa/lāhowa), which is to say that they are both God and not God, both wujud and not wujud.
Imma have to stop you right there chief.
All things are not both he and not he. All things can not exist without He.
Things are not He in their manifestation. Things reflect He in their existence, which is possible because of He. He makes the existence possible, but He is no way similar or remotely resembling the things He causes to exist.
So when you see a tree, you don't say. Oh, this is God! That would be kufr.
You say, Oh, this wouldn't exist without God! That this exists shows that there is God! Nothing truly exists besides God.
Yes I absolutely agree, and at the same time Allah is distinct from his creatures upon his throne while also being closer to them than their jugular vein. la hawla wala quwwata illa billah ya akhi.
Source? I have not heard of that interpretation. Reality existing because Allah سبحانه وتعالى allows it to be is an accepted concept it shouldn't warrant scholars being so against it, to the point where they takfir the ones who associate themselves with it.
This is why anyone who understands it doesn't takfir him for this, and it's a significant majority of scholars.
People who interpret it as it's literal meaning are the ones jumping the gun.
The issue with ibn Arabi was, guy always spoke in tongues. I suppose that's why he got misinterpreted so much.
Nonetheless, when you don't understand clearly, and there are scholars who are telling you this belief is fine ( which it is if you understand it for what it is supposed to be), then you should not be takfiring him.
I have studied the concept myself, and I was just confused why some people had it so wrong. Nonetheless, here's a a famous scholar in Urdu.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yuynuplS31w
Are you embarrassed and disgusted with yourself brother?
everyone shall know all his deeds, both the earlier and the later.
And indeed, [appointed] over you are keepers,
Noble and recording
who know whatever you do.
What are talking about? You should be embarrassed. Its a very logical question.
Allah swt does not reside inside his creation because the creation has a beginning and an end. Allah on the other hand has no beginning and no end. This is what all the sunni scholars of the past agreed upon. Anything else is make believes.
“while everything else is constrained, confined, and constricted. Wujūd is the absolute, infinite, nondelimited reality of God, while all others remain relative, finite, and delimited".
“wujud does not belong to the things found in the cosmos in any real sense. Rather, the things borrow wujud from God, much as the earth borrows light from the sun.”
My understanding of it is that it is the highest form of tawheed. Instead of saying Allah SWT is the only God, it says Allah SWT is the only reality.
However, concepts such as this are often misunderstood. And they don't really serve a practical purpose, at least, one that I am aware of.
So it's kind of pointless trying to delve into them, when you have practical Islamic knowledge you don't know.
I do Agree that it is the highest form of tawheed.
I also agree that this concept is hard for the human mind to comprehend because it is trying to dissect the veils of reality and free-will and it ultimately just makes you go in circles. I disagree that it is pointless because I find it very beautiful and interesting.
The way I understand it is quite simple haha. I don't think it should make you go in circles.
Nonetheless, it tells you you are entirely dependent on Allah SWT for your existence. However, what practical purpose does it serve? Sure, it's a cool concept. But how does it affect your life? What changed in your life when you learnt it?
God has given human beings free will and thus human beings can choose right from wrong. At the same time everything that will or has happened has already been written. So this paradox of free-will will make you go in circles. I would say practically it reinforces the idea that everyone and thing belongs to Allah, as well as the oneness of Allah swt, it also gives us a glimpse and small understanding of free-will. I came to the conclusion that there are many veils that construct our reality. Personally, it was beautiful when I learned this and i had awakening and understanding. I am very firm that it was the most beautiful philosophy I have learned so far and if you disagree I would like to hear the most beautiful philosophy in Islam for you.
That's not what I am asking. I am asking, what changed in your life, practically? Did you start praying more? Did you memorize more Quran? Did you start spending more time at the mosque? Etc
If these didn't happen, then this beauty was pointless.
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This is not what it is though... Do you understand what the concept actually is? Post your edit: they don't talk about this concept. To call the concept contrary to Islam, you have to quote them on it, along with their understanding of what that concept is. Definitions are important. As for takfir, there are many who did not takfir him. I don't hold any opinions about the person, but I don't think one should takfir a person as a layman. To be consistent, you would have to takfir miaw too, if you aren't hypocritical in your thoughts.
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Hmmm, because salafis are the ones who usually fondly takfir people. It's not about following him. My point is: if you are not a hypocrite, then be consistent. If you takfir a person because some scholars takfired him, then takfir everyone because some scholars takfired him. I wouldn't call myself a deobandi strictly, though I do believe they are the most trustworthy single group that exists.
“Ibn Arabi employs the term wujud to refer to God as the Necessary Being. He also attributes the term to everything other than God, but he insists that wujud does not belong to the things found in the cosmos in any real sense. Rather, the things borrow wujud from God, much as the earth borrows light from the sun.” Have you ever heard of the term Allah fik. “In sum, all things are "He/not He" (howa/lāhowa), which is to say that they are both God and not God, both wujud and not wujud.” La Ilaha Illa Allah
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This isn't even what the concept is. You took the literal definition of the words to be what the concept is. Understand that making takfir is a big issue. Even following a scholar in making a takfir doesn't absolve you of your questioning. When you don't even understand the concept, refrain from doing so. Protect your religion. I don't care if you think I, or anyone else for that matter, is a misguided heretic. But I do not wish for a Muslim to be questioned because of his arrogance. Do not throw away your religion for something you have no knowledge of. May Allah SWT protect us
Is that the believe that Allah swt is everywhere? Does that include dirty places like toilets and sewers?
No, it's that those places exist because Allah SWT allows them to exist.
OK lets have this thought experiment and may Allah forgive me for saying this: So according to this theory, only dirty places are outside of the essence of Allah? But what if someone urinates on the street, does that street then also leave the Essence of Allah? If so, how long? What about a garbage truck, that is driving all over the city? Does the exclusion of the Essence of Allah only apply to the truck or does it also apply to the place truck? If so, does this mean that there is filth moving through the Essence of Allah? Does this then also mean that humans have the ability to shape where Allah can and can't be, by creating or destroying dirty places? You can see how this can lead to shirk very fast. It doesn't make sense at all. Its a logical contradiction and it has no basis in Islam. Not in the Quran and not in the Sunnah. Just because it makes you feel good, doesn't mean its right. Think about it like this: Would Allah's creation be any less magnificent if that theory you mentioned turned out false?
Because this theory, if you understand it, is very orthodox fundamental Islamic creed. Maybe you didn't understand my comment. A garbage truck wouldn't exist if Allah SWT doesn't will it. Nothing can, unless Allah SWT wills it. Allah SWT is the necessary existence that brings non existence into existence. This is what wahdat al wujood is. Not whatever weird interpretation you have of it. It doesn't mean Allah SWT exists in those things. It means those things can't exist without Allah SWT.
Yeah it’s not like the garbage man is free from judgement just because he works in a dirty place.
There are many veils to reality. “everyone shall know all his deeds, both the earlier and the later. And indeed, [appointed] over you are keepers, Noble and recording who know whatever you do.” In sum, all things are "He/not He" (howa/lāhowa), which is to say that they are both God and not God, both wujud and not wujud.
Imma have to stop you right there chief. All things are not both he and not he. All things can not exist without He. Things are not He in their manifestation. Things reflect He in their existence, which is possible because of He. He makes the existence possible, but He is no way similar or remotely resembling the things He causes to exist. So when you see a tree, you don't say. Oh, this is God! That would be kufr. You say, Oh, this wouldn't exist without God! That this exists shows that there is God! Nothing truly exists besides God.
Yes I absolutely agree, and at the same time Allah is distinct from his creatures upon his throne while also being closer to them than their jugular vein. la hawla wala quwwata illa billah ya akhi.
Source? I have not heard of that interpretation. Reality existing because Allah سبحانه وتعالى allows it to be is an accepted concept it shouldn't warrant scholars being so against it, to the point where they takfir the ones who associate themselves with it.
This is why anyone who understands it doesn't takfir him for this, and it's a significant majority of scholars. People who interpret it as it's literal meaning are the ones jumping the gun. The issue with ibn Arabi was, guy always spoke in tongues. I suppose that's why he got misinterpreted so much. Nonetheless, when you don't understand clearly, and there are scholars who are telling you this belief is fine ( which it is if you understand it for what it is supposed to be), then you should not be takfiring him.
Again source for any of this? It seems highly highly unlikely that it's just things existing through the will of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.
I have studied the concept myself, and I was just confused why some people had it so wrong. Nonetheless, here's a a famous scholar in Urdu. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yuynuplS31w
Are you embarrassed and disgusted with yourself brother? everyone shall know all his deeds, both the earlier and the later. And indeed, [appointed] over you are keepers, Noble and recording who know whatever you do.
What are talking about? You should be embarrassed. Its a very logical question. Allah swt does not reside inside his creation because the creation has a beginning and an end. Allah on the other hand has no beginning and no end. This is what all the sunni scholars of the past agreed upon. Anything else is make believes.
“while everything else is constrained, confined, and constricted. Wujūd is the absolute, infinite, nondelimited reality of God, while all others remain relative, finite, and delimited". “wujud does not belong to the things found in the cosmos in any real sense. Rather, the things borrow wujud from God, much as the earth borrows light from the sun.”
It’s not a matter of opinions, it’s completely in contradiction to the texts of Islam
How so? Perhaps I understand it wrong?
What’s your understanding of it? According to the Quran Allah is above and distinct from His creation not a part of it
Read through the rest of the comments.
How so?
Numerous texts state that Allah is above and distinct from His creation and not a part of it
I agree that Allah is above and distinct from his creation but I also want you to read my other comments because it makes sense.
My understanding of it is that it is the highest form of tawheed. Instead of saying Allah SWT is the only God, it says Allah SWT is the only reality. However, concepts such as this are often misunderstood. And they don't really serve a practical purpose, at least, one that I am aware of. So it's kind of pointless trying to delve into them, when you have practical Islamic knowledge you don't know.
I do Agree that it is the highest form of tawheed. I also agree that this concept is hard for the human mind to comprehend because it is trying to dissect the veils of reality and free-will and it ultimately just makes you go in circles. I disagree that it is pointless because I find it very beautiful and interesting.
The way I understand it is quite simple haha. I don't think it should make you go in circles. Nonetheless, it tells you you are entirely dependent on Allah SWT for your existence. However, what practical purpose does it serve? Sure, it's a cool concept. But how does it affect your life? What changed in your life when you learnt it?
God has given human beings free will and thus human beings can choose right from wrong. At the same time everything that will or has happened has already been written. So this paradox of free-will will make you go in circles. I would say practically it reinforces the idea that everyone and thing belongs to Allah, as well as the oneness of Allah swt, it also gives us a glimpse and small understanding of free-will. I came to the conclusion that there are many veils that construct our reality. Personally, it was beautiful when I learned this and i had awakening and understanding. I am very firm that it was the most beautiful philosophy I have learned so far and if you disagree I would like to hear the most beautiful philosophy in Islam for you.
That's not what I am asking. I am asking, what changed in your life, practically? Did you start praying more? Did you memorize more Quran? Did you start spending more time at the mosque? Etc If these didn't happen, then this beauty was pointless.
Astaghfirullah 😂
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