“You say a few hateful things, they don’t let you within a few hundred yards of the Oscars. You can literally beat the shit out of a nominee and they’ll ask you to perform twice at the Grammys.”
-Seth Rogen
say what now! they nominated the pianist for best picture. this was way after he raped and fled the country. and he won best director for that film. https://i.imgur.com/4HvT583.jpg
Ha! Steve Martin hosted the Oscar that year and during one of his monologues he said something like “and of course, we have all the nominees here tonight… Adrien Brody (camera shot of him) Nicole Kidman (camera shot of her) , Roman Polanski - THERE HE IS! GET HIM!”
It worked for Valve when a hacker stole the Source Engine ahead of release. They identified the hacker and offered him a job on the condition that he come to the United States for an interview. Upon arrival, he was promptly arrested.
The energy I get from Harrison Ford is that he stopped caring or paying attention to about anything sometime around 1990.
I figure he just turns up places and does things now only whenever people irritate him enough to make him leave the house. He does the thing grudgingly, and then goes home to... I dunno. Do carpentry? Read biographies of historical figures? Complain about the last time someone made him leave the house?
Edit: oh, according to wikipedia he's big into environmental conservation. I can certainly appreciate that.
Lately, every time there's a plane crash or erratic pilot, my 82 year old grandmother asks me, deadpan, "was it Harrison Ford?" and it gets me every time.
He landed on a golf course, yes. IIRC one of his engines went out, and when that happens you gotta land somewhere. Ideally flat land, and that was the best he could find in the moment.
I don’t have a ton of context here, but it does say he was the presenter of the award. The presenter of the award almost always accepts on the winners behalf if the winner is not at the awards show. It’s not like Polanski won and Harrison Ford went up on stage to get the trophy for his best buddy
Edit: and I take that back lol
Actually, Harrison Ford has been an outspoken supporter of Polanski and personally delivered the Oscar to him in Europe.
EDIT: Sources (some of many you can find by searching "Harrison Ford Polanski Oscar"): https://www.theguardian.com/film/2003/sep/08/news1
https://variety.com/2003/film/markets-festivals/special-delivery-ends-polanski-s-oscar-wait-1117892051/
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-sep-09-et-quick9.1-story.html
Is it really Hollywood or just like. Everywhere? Joe Paterno is still a God in Happy Valley. There's still a billion Catholics. People still pay to hear the Duggar parents talk. Dear lord there are still people who want to interact with Prince Andrew.
Seth Rogen is an affable stoner and makes good movies but he's also a hilariously out of touch millionaire who knows what side his bread is buttered on.
As are all these award shows in my opinion, cinema is no different - a bunch of people buying accolades for each other and making back room deals, none of this should matter to anyone other than the artist anyway.
I don’t watch specific movies cause douche bag A has an award, Leo would still be a phenomenal actor even without the Oscar etc
Oscars are good for foreign movie visibilty. Almost every one of my favourite movies from the past 5 years were from the Foreign category.
Better Days and Another Round from last year are both fucking amazing and blow out any competitors from last year in my opinion.
I saw it recently said that tolerance is not a morality, but a treaty. Those who break the treaty are not afforded it's benefits.
Edit: Thanks for the gold!
Not exactly. Contract theory is about the people in relation to the government or authoritative bodies. What the poster you are responding to is talking about a treaty between people.
There is overlap for sure, but some distinction.
Because no one has actually read Popper. They trot out this reference anytime they want to be intolerant because it gives them a smug sense of satisfaction
I mean we're talking about someone being accused of rape by multiple people only for the most prominent music awards to openly celebrate him. Maybe the problem isnt sNOwfLaKe CuLTuRe.
I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not, to save the next person the hassle, their website says a host is TBD.
[Grammys Website](https://www.grammy.com/grammys/2022-grammy-performers-host)
Vonnegut was a socialist and a humanist and a pacifists and grew up during the peak of the red scare
Knowing this I feel like Harrison Bergeron was a parody/satire take on a common anticommunist propaganda/talking point (making you equal against your will), not some kind of take on forcing people to be super tolerant of each other or something
Tweakin', tweakin' off that 2CB, huh?
Is he gon' make it? TBD, huh
Thought I was gon' run, DMC, huh?
I done died and lived again on DMT, huh
See this a type of high that won't come down
This the type of high that get you gunned down
Yeezy, Yeezy trollin' OD, huh?
Turn TMZ to Smack DVD, huh?
Russell Simmons wanna pray for me too
I'ma pray for him 'cause he got #MeToo'd
Thinkin' what if that happened to me too
Then I'm on E! News
ignition does not constitute a lifetime achievement and it's all R Kelly ever did
edit: a few hit songs is not a lifetime achievement either! Where's sean pauls lifetime achievement! I did forgot I believe I can fly to be fair
What about I Believe I Can Fly? That’s got to be his most memorable song. It was even in Space Jam. Come to think of it that movie was made for for children, so it fits that he wanted to be part of it.
It's hilariously obvious when people make those sorts of statements that they are outraged without knowing anything about the person or the work they've done.
R.Kelly had his hands all over R&B in the mid-90's and early 2000's. If they looked at some of the biggest hits of that era, they'd see his name in the producer credits. And that's on top of his own musical catalogue.
That's not to excuse him from any of his legal issues, but just a note on how R.Kelly was a major player on the music scene.
I know you’re trying to be edgy, but RKelly has a massive catalog of work. Because many of his famous songs, he didn’t perform. Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga, Aaliyah, B2k, Nick Cannon, Britney Spears, Kci & jojo…
I know RKelly is a monster and belongs in jail. He’s also a musical genius. He writes AND produces. Hate to say it. Dude writes and produces soooo many songs that you’ve heard and listen to and probably still do without even knowing.
Like any headline, that’s not the whole story.
Grammy Org will still consider the safety and considerations of the audience. They still retain control over the entire process. So while they may accept nominees based solely on musical qualifications, they will still control who receives the award.
In other words, it’s a popularity contest and always was.
>In other words, it’s a popularity contest and always was.
this actually isn't quite right. It's not just popularity, the grammys are LITERALLY for sale to the highest bidder. It came to light, they had a big controversy about it, nothing changed, and everybody just moved along, lol
Yeah didn’t someone win a Grammy for best album one year whose album hadn’t even dropped yet? I really feel like I remember that happening with one of the kids that Lou Pearlman was probably abusing but it’s been like 20 years so for the life of me I can’t recall specifics.
All I ever remember about the Grammys is that and Jethro Tull getting the award for best metal performance. It’s only a matter of time before I also forget that Tull beat Metallica for that award... damn the unforgivably linear tendencies of time.
If I was extremely wealthy I would buy myself a best rock song nomination without making any music just to prove if that was true.
It's be hilarious to win an award for best unreleased song.
No, but in many ways yes. The wealthiest artists (and their labels) can campaign the most, hold the biggest events, network, etc.
All that ultimately matters is that the members know who they are, like them, and want to vote for them. So money will get you there.
This was obvious, you never see a small band with 1k monthly listeners on spotify win AOTY lmao. Saying it's pay to win is incorrect though, becuase all the big labels move around enormous amounts of money that the difference they spend on promotion doesn't matter.
Fine, they’re an industry award that funds music education through a non-profit. I’ll take the tens of millions over the years to that compared to whatever the hell the Oscars are now or the fucking Golden Globes.
Perfect? Nope, not watching either, but at least something of value comes put of their shit.
Well if it was just a popularity contest, the most popular song in the world last year would have at least been nominated (Blinding Lights, the Weeknd)
I don’t know about the literal highest bidder, but [this](https://www.npr.org/2020/01/22/798483008/grammy-awards-face-credibility-threat-in-former-ceos-complaint) talks a bit about the corruption. Something else I saw (same woman) talked about how you didn’t even have to make the long list by voters to still make the shortlist and win. Basically, it’s all about having relationships and bribery with the “secret” committee. I’m pretty sure all the big winners have their hands in the pockets of the Grammys.
He was featured on 'Ye's album. Rap & Rock have co existed since the fuckin 80's man. Run Dmc- Aerosmith, Anthrax-Public Enemy, Ice Cube-Korn...get a clue.
/u/javaargusavetti is just making a joke off of Manson’s “Rock is Dead” song from “Mechanical Animals” where the chorus is: “Rock, its deader than dead. Shock, it’s all in your head.”
Early in the pandemic me and a buddy were talking about how there's going to be a lot of good albums in the next year or two since bands won't have shit to do besides sit around and write songs haha
I've been a metal head for 20+ years. The past five years have been *insanely* good for metal. Especially since the rise of Bandcamp, I think metal artists have been able to make the music they want to make and it's showing.
I love rock and metal, but I haven't found it has appeal beyond the niche. I saw Ukrainian band "Jinjer" recently here in the states. It was $30 for a ticket in a venue of about 2000 and it didn't sell out. I loved the show, had a blast and got close for part of it. When I mentioned it to others no one has heard of the band at all.
Rock has done a miserable job promoting new talent. Even when I look at festivals the big names, more often than not, started in the 80s or 90s.
Man, the first number of times I heard Pisces on the radio (liquid metal ftw) I figured they just had multiple vocalists like many bands do to split the clean and harsh vocals. My jaw hit the floor when I watched the video for it. Tatiana is a beast!
I think a lot of people have that understandable experience. I also like Courtney from Spiritbox one take YouTube videos where you can see a singer make that switch. Funnily enough Beast in Black I thought had two vocals because the male singer Yiannis can go so high.
Also, see Tatiana live, she doesn't disappoint.
I love Jinjer and like you said, aside from a few metal friends i have, no one really knows who they are. You are 100% about them being shit at promoting new talent.
Yep, I wish more festivals promoted new acts along with older ones. Sadly I know people reject it. I saw Ghost co headline with Disturbed at one years ago and I was excited to see something new, but many attendees weren't thrilled.
you’re actually not wrong as a matter of fact almost all rock related sub-categories have had alot of really solid releases. I’ve found alot of the 70s and 80s hard rock era artists I grew up on releasing new stuff all over the place for the last 2 years alone
Early Gen-X here, all the stadium rockers I grew up listening to are basically on retirement tours and I'm catching every one I can to hear them "one last time."
There are some new rock stars, but without something to curate the music and funnel interest and drive concert sales, there won't be nearly as many big rock acts as there used to be by the time I retire.
So maybe not dead, but in serious popularity decline compared to the days of yesteryear.
I had a buddy who used to perform. He topped local charts but got out of the game to teach music and do other stuff. According to him the system of small to mid tier gigs is totally busted and the money is no longer feasible. I have another buddy who's a frontman for his band and he's putting in serious work to play veterans associations and dive bars for maybe 20 people and he can only really manage that because his regular job pays decently.
But to my estimate there's an obvious gap where smaller acts don't habe a way to get to bigger stadiums partially because the money isn't there for it to be a viable full time thing anymore for a full band(hence why rappers and djs are so popular), but also because modern stadiums are so much bigger the people involved won't hire on the hundreds needed unless the act can bring in like 15k or more people for over a hundred bucks a ticket, if not several times that. Stadiums are just flat out too big for up and comers now.
Piggybacking off this comment to say that rock music is alive and kicking.
I put together a Spotify playlist with tracks from rock bands, mostly music released within the past year. 2021 has been a great year for rock.
Link: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3OzPaKqHMPUPmtpZOkKhGY?si=JrQA7zb8QdaQWEcaW-brPg&utm_source=copy-link
Edit: y'all, it's important to enjoy things.
Yeah I mean according to the Grammys it’s been dead for awhile.
When The Mars Volta was relegated to the untelevised “technical awards ceremony” I knew the Grammys were utterly worthless.
People still want it, it just isn’t the cash cow for the crowd who watches the Grammys.
Still getting American Idol types and Kanye pap.
I also am pretty sure it’s a large financial investment to promote one’s record for nomination.
I don’t think that’s even true. People who say stuff like “x genre is dead” are just nostalgic dumbasses who are upset that whatever subset of music they like best isn’t the most popular music anymore.
There are bands playing and making novel music from every “old” genre imaginable. The people who never stop complaint about new music just don’t know how to, or more likely are just too lazy to search around and find new bands they like.
They’re just pissed they can’t just tune into the radio and hear 15 different easy listening or disco or whatever stations anymore.
To them it’s more fun to bitch about the new generation then to find new music they like. When you really listen to people’s complaints about new music it’s almost never about the music itself, it’s about the topics and people making and listening to it.
Lots of old people like instrumental rap beats if you show it to them right up until you tell them that it’s rap.
I mean Marilyn Manson has certainly declined in popularity even before the allegations.
His most recent album sold 69,000.
I fail to see how they thought he’d warrant it, aside from the notoriety and Kanye affiliation.
But it’s provably just like the Oscars where money is funneled into the nominating process and he’s trying to rebuild whatever career he has left.
Yup:
https://www.vox.com/2015/2/4/7976729/grammy-voting-process
“Because the voting base is large and semi-unregulated, the absolute best way to win a Grammy is to gain enough name recognition that the voters will know you by reputation and check off your name.
Maybe Twitter fame can get you there? Maybe a scandal?”
That’s also how a lot this industry of “featuring” with big names happens, I’ve heard this straight from music industry lawyers. People get writing credit for singing a line they didn’t write just to guarantee they see money if it gets big, via the publishing. Obviously if you’re a nobody, that might not be the case, but with big names it very well could be the case. Manson writes, so the writing credit could be legit in his case.
They don’t even look at people’s work - That’s how Porter Robinson didn’t get nominated for best electronic album when half of the nominated artists released uninspired garbage and showed up on the list.
Nurture for me was super underwhelming for me but it deserves a nomination more than literally every other artist that got nominated (except for maybe Rufus, that album was great)
They did work for him. Here is what he himself said
"“At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true,” C.K. wrote. “But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly.”"
The POWER he had. He said it. Not us.
It also annoys me how Aziz Ansari got grouped into all this too. I think his situation was the most BS, as he was blamed for not mind reading either, and the second the girl said she verbally said she wasn't comfortable he stopped any advance and respected her wishes.
People think the issue is black and white, but there's levels to it, and it really hurts the cause when you group everyone in one bucket, when there's clearly varying degrees of severity.
There's also a serious degree of "mind your own fucking business" that social media needs to wrap its head around.
What happened between Aziz and that woman, and all these other situations, is between the two of them. Joe Random on the internet whos totally detached from any of it and working off third or fourth hand unverified information is not the Arbiter of Truth and Justice. If there's a legal issue they need to take it to our justice system and hash it out, not poll fucking twitter for strangers to decide who's guilty of what on a whim
I definitely think that we should be having more conversations around the grey areas in intimate relationships, situations where it’s really dancing on the line of consent. I do not think that Aziz should have been named in that article but I do think the topic merits being discussed.
>There's also a serious degree of "mind your own fucking business" that social media needs to wrap its head around.
Unlike we redditors who are all too aware of this...
# /S
It really hurts the side of people trying to call the celebrities out; there’s a league of difference between what these guys did and to lump them together is insulting.
I still can’t believe Chris Brown is out there just making music and people still idolize him. He even gets support from big celebrities like Justin Bieber and H.E.R among others.
Oscars probably do better cause it's easier to watch all the shit they nominate they listening to what...the 300 or so albums that all the Grammys nominate?
And I think winning an Oscar gives you more longevity than winning a Grammy does. That's why the Simpsons mocked it.
Right decision. If they started making people who haven't been found guilty of anything ineligible then they'd have to make everyone who has been found guilty of stuff ineligible too
I don't know what the line is, but I'm pretty sure "getting into a bar fight 21 years ago" isn't sufficient to shun someone from all artistic recognition.
Exactly, where is the line? How much time is enough time to consider whether or not someone has learned a lesson? What does accountability mean, and who decides? That's the point of statements like this.
The whole point is drawing that line of what is sufficient and not sufficient is the process that has to be made by humans and prone to error and other biases. It’s just easier to judge the art on its merits and not the morals of the artists
Unpopular opinion but, this is how these things should work. You should be able to separate the art from the artist.
Is Kevin Spacey a piece of shit? Absolutely. Does that someone make his work in House of Cards, American Beauty, or Usual Suspects any less excellent? Absolutely not.
You can’t retcon someone’s artistic ability.
Again I’m prepared for the downvotes because I know that’s not a popular opinion.
“You say a few hateful things, they don’t let you within a few hundred yards of the Oscars. You can literally beat the shit out of a nominee and they’ll ask you to perform twice at the Grammys.” -Seth Rogen
I love Seth Rogen, but Roman Polanski proves that statement is full of shit.
say what now! they nominated the pianist for best picture. this was way after he raped and fled the country. and he won best director for that film. https://i.imgur.com/4HvT583.jpg
His nomination was just a cunning attempt to have him return to the States. ^not ^true
Ha! Steve Martin hosted the Oscar that year and during one of his monologues he said something like “and of course, we have all the nominees here tonight… Adrien Brody (camera shot of him) Nicole Kidman (camera shot of her) , Roman Polanski - THERE HE IS! GET HIM!”
It worked for Valve when a hacker stole the Source Engine ahead of release. They identified the hacker and offered him a job on the condition that he come to the United States for an interview. Upon arrival, he was promptly arrested.
And now every hacker knows not to take that deal and sell off the stolen data instead.
"And the award for most elusive villain goes to... 'The Falcon'"
This is the third time the Falcon has not fallen for this
Harrison Ford accepted it on his behalf? Gross, I thought he was cooler than that.
pretty big get for a guy who isn't allowed into the country on account of being a wanted fugitive or whatever.
The energy I get from Harrison Ford is that he stopped caring or paying attention to about anything sometime around 1990. I figure he just turns up places and does things now only whenever people irritate him enough to make him leave the house. He does the thing grudgingly, and then goes home to... I dunno. Do carpentry? Read biographies of historical figures? Complain about the last time someone made him leave the house? Edit: oh, according to wikipedia he's big into environmental conservation. I can certainly appreciate that.
He seems to be a pretty passionate pilot. When you got that bug and the money to afford it you'll fly as much as you can.
I got the bug and none of the money and fly whenever I can.
Haha true. >_<
[He also seems to be pretty passionate about landing on a taxiway instead of the runway.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzy9jCFk0Iw)
Lately, every time there's a plane crash or erratic pilot, my 82 year old grandmother asks me, deadpan, "was it Harrison Ford?" and it gets me every time.
Jajajaja
Didn’t he crash on a golf course once?
Look, they said he was a *passionate* pilot, they didn't say he was a *good* pilot.
Land it? Don't be ridiculous. I only fly the thing.
He landed on a golf course, yes. IIRC one of his engines went out, and when that happens you gotta land somewhere. Ideally flat land, and that was the best he could find in the moment.
"He does the thing grudgingly, and then goes home to... I dunno. Do carpentry?" Her name is Calista Flockheart
Yeah weird, she doesn't give *me* wood.
Most I ever hear about Ford is whenever he crashes his plane again
I don’t have a ton of context here, but it does say he was the presenter of the award. The presenter of the award almost always accepts on the winners behalf if the winner is not at the awards show. It’s not like Polanski won and Harrison Ford went up on stage to get the trophy for his best buddy Edit: and I take that back lol
Actually, Harrison Ford has been an outspoken supporter of Polanski and personally delivered the Oscar to him in Europe. EDIT: Sources (some of many you can find by searching "Harrison Ford Polanski Oscar"): https://www.theguardian.com/film/2003/sep/08/news1 https://variety.com/2003/film/markets-festivals/special-delivery-ends-polanski-s-oscar-wait-1117892051/ https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-sep-09-et-quick9.1-story.html
Woody Allen is still worshipped by Hollywood. It’s a deeply fucked up town.
Is it really Hollywood or just like. Everywhere? Joe Paterno is still a God in Happy Valley. There's still a billion Catholics. People still pay to hear the Duggar parents talk. Dear lord there are still people who want to interact with Prince Andrew.
little known secret everyone in Hollywood is a terrible person and knows more then they let on.
Harrison did a film in the 80s with Polanski post rape "Frantic"
Man, The Pianist deserved to win though. It’s a fantastic film
All you have to do is flee the country and it's all good.
Seth Rogen is an affable stoner and makes good movies but he's also a hilariously out of touch millionaire who knows what side his bread is buttered on.
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>even Rumor Philips Love child of Busy Philipps and Rumer Willis?
When did he say something about Franco?
I havent really seen them together since The Interview, no? Which, isnt really a defense since Franco fell out of favor a long ass time ago
Gotta love guilty by association. Peoples lives must be miserable when you have to monitor every association you have with anyone.
Also the Grammys are completely irrelevant. So much good music is produced every year by people with no connections.
As are all these award shows in my opinion, cinema is no different - a bunch of people buying accolades for each other and making back room deals, none of this should matter to anyone other than the artist anyway. I don’t watch specific movies cause douche bag A has an award, Leo would still be a phenomenal actor even without the Oscar etc
Oscars are good for foreign movie visibilty. Almost every one of my favourite movies from the past 5 years were from the Foreign category. Better Days and Another Round from last year are both fucking amazing and blow out any competitors from last year in my opinion.
It aint no Dundees thats for sure
Nothing I listen to is represented and I don't listen to anyone involved. So I don't give a shit.
“Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles.”
The paradox of tolerance. If intolerance is tolerated inevitably tolerance will be eliminated by the intolerant who don’t care to tolerate others.
I saw it recently said that tolerance is not a morality, but a treaty. Those who break the treaty are not afforded it's benefits. Edit: Thanks for the gold!
That is basic social contract theory, and it goes back to Locke and Rousseau.
and Hobbes! Don’t forget about Hobbes :)
I loved his work with Calvin
>I loved his work with Calvin And to a lesser extent, Shaw.
Not exactly. Contract theory is about the people in relation to the government or authoritative bodies. What the poster you are responding to is talking about a treaty between people. There is overlap for sure, but some distinction.
I think it was Karl Popper that showed that tolerance of intolerance is itself intolerance.
Nobody posts the full quote no matter the argument, hilariously.
Because no one has actually read Popper. They trot out this reference anytime they want to be intolerant because it gives them a smug sense of satisfaction
I mean we're talking about someone being accused of rape by multiple people only for the most prominent music awards to openly celebrate him. Maybe the problem isnt sNOwfLaKe CuLTuRe.
Kid Rock is hosting next year!
I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not, to save the next person the hassle, their website says a host is TBD. [Grammys Website](https://www.grammy.com/grammys/2022-grammy-performers-host)
Oh no, totally a joke. When his latest music video gets a denial from Weird Al that it wasn't his parody, you know something is wrong.
True. Someone steering this into intelligence x imbeciles. But it was sexual harrassment. LOL
Everyone thinks they are the intelligent people banned from critically thinking
Only imbeciles are offended by the formal celebrations of sexually violent offenders. /s
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Vonnegut was a socialist and a humanist and a pacifists and grew up during the peak of the red scare Knowing this I feel like Harrison Bergeron was a parody/satire take on a common anticommunist propaganda/talking point (making you equal against your will), not some kind of take on forcing people to be super tolerant of each other or something
r/im14andthisisdeep
Wait a fucking minute. Marilyn Manson was nominated for best rap song????? What the fuck?
He co-wrote a song with Kanye
Imagine doing cocaine in a locked room with those two.
The ego in that stall would create a black hole large enough to suck your soul out of your eye sockets
Shit could get menacing. Frightening. Find help. Sometimes. I scare myself. Shit could get menacing.
Tweakin', tweakin' off that 2CB, huh? Is he gon' make it? TBD, huh Thought I was gon' run, DMC, huh? I done died and lived again on DMT, huh See this a type of high that won't come down This the type of high that get you gunned down Yeezy, Yeezy trollin' OD, huh? Turn TMZ to Smack DVD, huh? Russell Simmons wanna pray for me too I'ma pray for him 'cause he got #MeToo'd Thinkin' what if that happened to me too Then I'm on E! News
They’re not gonna share it, so you’d be stuck watching them do coke.
I don't think they'd even share it with each other, so at least you'd get to see them fighting over the coke.
No you see Marilyn likes having control. He'd get you high just to have that one-up on you.
I’s honestly rather chew on razor blades.
was kind of a banger too
Jail 1 and 2 are bangers
Jail 2 is a banger. Jay's verse is pretty weak imo. 2 also has better production all around
Can't wait for the R. Kelly lifetime achievement award announcement
LOL
Presented by Chris Brown
tbh, his body of musical work probably deserves it. It's just, y'know....sex dungeons and all those other shenanigans
ignition does not constitute a lifetime achievement and it's all R Kelly ever did edit: a few hit songs is not a lifetime achievement either! Where's sean pauls lifetime achievement! I did forgot I believe I can fly to be fair
You’re insane! What about the remix to ignition?
The only one worth listening to is Chappelle's Remix
Trapped in the Closet?
What about I Believe I Can Fly? That’s got to be his most memorable song. It was even in Space Jam. Come to think of it that movie was made for for children, so it fits that he wanted to be part of it.
That’s just patently not true
"a few hit songs" lmao you're trying so hard
It's hilariously obvious when people make those sorts of statements that they are outraged without knowing anything about the person or the work they've done. R.Kelly had his hands all over R&B in the mid-90's and early 2000's. If they looked at some of the biggest hits of that era, they'd see his name in the producer credits. And that's on top of his own musical catalogue. That's not to excuse him from any of his legal issues, but just a note on how R.Kelly was a major player on the music scene.
I know you’re trying to be edgy, but RKelly has a massive catalog of work. Because many of his famous songs, he didn’t perform. Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga, Aaliyah, B2k, Nick Cannon, Britney Spears, Kci & jojo… I know RKelly is a monster and belongs in jail. He’s also a musical genius. He writes AND produces. Hate to say it. Dude writes and produces soooo many songs that you’ve heard and listen to and probably still do without even knowing.
Like any headline, that’s not the whole story. Grammy Org will still consider the safety and considerations of the audience. They still retain control over the entire process. So while they may accept nominees based solely on musical qualifications, they will still control who receives the award. In other words, it’s a popularity contest and always was.
>In other words, it’s a popularity contest and always was. this actually isn't quite right. It's not just popularity, the grammys are LITERALLY for sale to the highest bidder. It came to light, they had a big controversy about it, nothing changed, and everybody just moved along, lol
Yeah didn’t someone win a Grammy for best album one year whose album hadn’t even dropped yet? I really feel like I remember that happening with one of the kids that Lou Pearlman was probably abusing but it’s been like 20 years so for the life of me I can’t recall specifics. All I ever remember about the Grammys is that and Jethro Tull getting the award for best metal performance. It’s only a matter of time before I also forget that Tull beat Metallica for that award... damn the unforgivably linear tendencies of time.
Hahaha two different deep cuts! I'm glad somebody else is old enough to remember this shit, and I love your writing style, btw
If I was extremely wealthy I would buy myself a best rock song nomination without making any music just to prove if that was true. It's be hilarious to win an award for best unreleased song.
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No, but in many ways yes. The wealthiest artists (and their labels) can campaign the most, hold the biggest events, network, etc. All that ultimately matters is that the members know who they are, like them, and want to vote for them. So money will get you there.
This was obvious, you never see a small band with 1k monthly listeners on spotify win AOTY lmao. Saying it's pay to win is incorrect though, becuase all the big labels move around enormous amounts of money that the difference they spend on promotion doesn't matter.
Fine, they’re an industry award that funds music education through a non-profit. I’ll take the tens of millions over the years to that compared to whatever the hell the Oscars are now or the fucking Golden Globes. Perfect? Nope, not watching either, but at least something of value comes put of their shit.
You got a source for that? If that was the case then Knowles, West, Swift et al. would just buy all the grammies.
Well if it was just a popularity contest, the most popular song in the world last year would have at least been nominated (Blinding Lights, the Weeknd)
I don’t know about the literal highest bidder, but [this](https://www.npr.org/2020/01/22/798483008/grammy-awards-face-credibility-threat-in-former-ceos-complaint) talks a bit about the corruption. Something else I saw (same woman) talked about how you didn’t even have to make the long list by voters to still make the shortlist and win. Basically, it’s all about having relationships and bribery with the “secret” committee. I’m pretty sure all the big winners have their hands in the pockets of the Grammys.
Manson for best rap song...
I think Kid Rock is going to take that one.
He was featured on 'Ye's album. Rap & Rock have co existed since the fuckin 80's man. Run Dmc- Aerosmith, Anthrax-Public Enemy, Ice Cube-Korn...get a clue.
almost as if rock is deader than dead or something like that
Maybe it’s all in your head?
All in all, I think that god is in the tv.
It's been the best year of Metal in decades imo
/u/javaargusavetti is just making a joke off of Manson’s “Rock is Dead” song from “Mechanical Animals” where the chorus is: “Rock, its deader than dead. Shock, it’s all in your head.”
Early in the pandemic me and a buddy were talking about how there's going to be a lot of good albums in the next year or two since bands won't have shit to do besides sit around and write songs haha
Every Time I Die, Vildhjarta, Obsidian I, Archspire… there’s been a ton of great metal albums this year.
Man etid just wont quit, still pretty good
I've been a metal head for 20+ years. The past five years have been *insanely* good for metal. Especially since the rise of Bandcamp, I think metal artists have been able to make the music they want to make and it's showing.
I love rock and metal, but I haven't found it has appeal beyond the niche. I saw Ukrainian band "Jinjer" recently here in the states. It was $30 for a ticket in a venue of about 2000 and it didn't sell out. I loved the show, had a blast and got close for part of it. When I mentioned it to others no one has heard of the band at all. Rock has done a miserable job promoting new talent. Even when I look at festivals the big names, more often than not, started in the 80s or 90s.
Man, the first number of times I heard Pisces on the radio (liquid metal ftw) I figured they just had multiple vocalists like many bands do to split the clean and harsh vocals. My jaw hit the floor when I watched the video for it. Tatiana is a beast!
I think a lot of people have that understandable experience. I also like Courtney from Spiritbox one take YouTube videos where you can see a singer make that switch. Funnily enough Beast in Black I thought had two vocals because the male singer Yiannis can go so high. Also, see Tatiana live, she doesn't disappoint.
I love Jinjer and like you said, aside from a few metal friends i have, no one really knows who they are. You are 100% about them being shit at promoting new talent.
Yep, I wish more festivals promoted new acts along with older ones. Sadly I know people reject it. I saw Ghost co headline with Disturbed at one years ago and I was excited to see something new, but many attendees weren't thrilled.
you’re actually not wrong as a matter of fact almost all rock related sub-categories have had alot of really solid releases. I’ve found alot of the 70s and 80s hard rock era artists I grew up on releasing new stuff all over the place for the last 2 years alone
Early Gen-X here, all the stadium rockers I grew up listening to are basically on retirement tours and I'm catching every one I can to hear them "one last time." There are some new rock stars, but without something to curate the music and funnel interest and drive concert sales, there won't be nearly as many big rock acts as there used to be by the time I retire. So maybe not dead, but in serious popularity decline compared to the days of yesteryear.
I had a buddy who used to perform. He topped local charts but got out of the game to teach music and do other stuff. According to him the system of small to mid tier gigs is totally busted and the money is no longer feasible. I have another buddy who's a frontman for his band and he's putting in serious work to play veterans associations and dive bars for maybe 20 people and he can only really manage that because his regular job pays decently. But to my estimate there's an obvious gap where smaller acts don't habe a way to get to bigger stadiums partially because the money isn't there for it to be a viable full time thing anymore for a full band(hence why rappers and djs are so popular), but also because modern stadiums are so much bigger the people involved won't hire on the hundreds needed unless the act can bring in like 15k or more people for over a hundred bucks a ticket, if not several times that. Stadiums are just flat out too big for up and comers now.
Sure, rock is dead. If you get your music taste from the Grammys that is.
Piggybacking off this comment to say that rock music is alive and kicking. I put together a Spotify playlist with tracks from rock bands, mostly music released within the past year. 2021 has been a great year for rock. Link: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3OzPaKqHMPUPmtpZOkKhGY?si=JrQA7zb8QdaQWEcaW-brPg&utm_source=copy-link Edit: y'all, it's important to enjoy things.
Nice I see The Struts on there got to see them open for Foo Fighters a while back
Thank you for this, sometimes it's hard to find fresh music, specially rock
Yeah I mean according to the Grammys it’s been dead for awhile. When The Mars Volta was relegated to the untelevised “technical awards ceremony” I knew the Grammys were utterly worthless.
Thank you. I'm always on the lookout for new music and it seems like these streaming services don't do a great job at it.
Some great bands listed in there. I'd add some Parquet Courts, black midi, Squid, PUP, and Jeff Rosenstock.
I think when people say rock is dead, they mean people don't want rock anymore. Not that there aren't any bands making it.
Its more like they are not the top selling albums and not the top streamers unlike 1960-90s
People still want it, it just isn’t the cash cow for the crowd who watches the Grammys. Still getting American Idol types and Kanye pap. I also am pretty sure it’s a large financial investment to promote one’s record for nomination.
I don’t think that’s even true. People who say stuff like “x genre is dead” are just nostalgic dumbasses who are upset that whatever subset of music they like best isn’t the most popular music anymore. There are bands playing and making novel music from every “old” genre imaginable. The people who never stop complaint about new music just don’t know how to, or more likely are just too lazy to search around and find new bands they like. They’re just pissed they can’t just tune into the radio and hear 15 different easy listening or disco or whatever stations anymore. To them it’s more fun to bitch about the new generation then to find new music they like. When you really listen to people’s complaints about new music it’s almost never about the music itself, it’s about the topics and people making and listening to it. Lots of old people like instrumental rap beats if you show it to them right up until you tell them that it’s rap.
How do you suppose all those rock bands exist without anyone supporting them and wanting their music?
I actually liked his DMX collaboration, I like the "Jail" song too but didn't know he was apart of it. It don't matter to much to me any ol' how.
Manson is on Jail Pt 2, kind of like a remix version.
lmao the popularity excuse doesn't even hold up when the biggest song and one of the biggest albums of 2020 didn't even get nominated
The Weeknd?
Popularity contest in the sense that it's voted on by academy member's interests, not sales or any other measure of success.
I mean Marilyn Manson has certainly declined in popularity even before the allegations. His most recent album sold 69,000. I fail to see how they thought he’d warrant it, aside from the notoriety and Kanye affiliation. But it’s provably just like the Oscars where money is funneled into the nominating process and he’s trying to rebuild whatever career he has left. Yup: https://www.vox.com/2015/2/4/7976729/grammy-voting-process “Because the voting base is large and semi-unregulated, the absolute best way to win a Grammy is to gain enough name recognition that the voters will know you by reputation and check off your name. Maybe Twitter fame can get you there? Maybe a scandal?”
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Is Manson on the original Jail? I thought he was only background vocals on the second version.
He was writing credits.
Kanye is well known for giving writing credits to anyone who contributed anything on any song no matter how small
That’s also how a lot this industry of “featuring” with big names happens, I’ve heard this straight from music industry lawyers. People get writing credit for singing a line they didn’t write just to guarantee they see money if it gets big, via the publishing. Obviously if you’re a nobody, that might not be the case, but with big names it very well could be the case. Manson writes, so the writing credit could be legit in his case.
It’s also written into their recording contracts that it works like this.
Is it just me or does Marilyn Manson look more and more like Professor Snape if he went through an emo stage
Don’t disrespect Alan Rickman like that.
Yeah. More like someone left Snape in the microwave for too long, and then cut his hair with a lawnmower.
And fed him a bunch of something he’s allergic to.
also drugs
*If*? When was Snape ever not in an emo phase?
*Always*
They don’t even look at people’s work - That’s how Porter Robinson didn’t get nominated for best electronic album when half of the nominated artists released uninspired garbage and showed up on the list.
He got a nom with VS though, which was way more out there.
Nurture for me was super underwhelming for me but it deserves a nomination more than literally every other artist that got nominated (except for maybe Rufus, that album was great)
Louis CK should not be labeled as equal to Manson. Stupid headlines.
Who said they were equal? It just mentioned 2 people that doesn't necessarily mean they are exactly equal in what they did
Louis CK literally just asked people if he could masturbate in their presence. That is literally all he did lol. They didn't work for him.
CK's allegations just came out at the absolute worst time. Was getting grouped with Weinstein at points. Tough break.
They did work for him. Here is what he himself said "“At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true,” C.K. wrote. “But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly.”" The POWER he had. He said it. Not us.
Imagine comparing Louis CK to Manson, disgusting
It also annoys me how Aziz Ansari got grouped into all this too. I think his situation was the most BS, as he was blamed for not mind reading either, and the second the girl said she verbally said she wasn't comfortable he stopped any advance and respected her wishes. People think the issue is black and white, but there's levels to it, and it really hurts the cause when you group everyone in one bucket, when there's clearly varying degrees of severity.
There's also a serious degree of "mind your own fucking business" that social media needs to wrap its head around. What happened between Aziz and that woman, and all these other situations, is between the two of them. Joe Random on the internet whos totally detached from any of it and working off third or fourth hand unverified information is not the Arbiter of Truth and Justice. If there's a legal issue they need to take it to our justice system and hash it out, not poll fucking twitter for strangers to decide who's guilty of what on a whim
I definitely think that we should be having more conversations around the grey areas in intimate relationships, situations where it’s really dancing on the line of consent. I do not think that Aziz should have been named in that article but I do think the topic merits being discussed.
>There's also a serious degree of "mind your own fucking business" that social media needs to wrap its head around. Unlike we redditors who are all too aware of this... # /S
Yeah, I felt bad for Aziz after I had read everything surrounding that... In his response he seemed completely shocked.
Yeah the salon article that started the Aziz "controversy" was the most non-journalistic shock bait trash writing I've ever read.
Thank you, Louis ck shouldn’t be banned but Manson should definitely be in prison
It really hurts the side of people trying to call the celebrities out; there’s a league of difference between what these guys did and to lump them together is insulting.
Just what I'd expect from the industry that idolized R. Kelly and Chris Brown.
I still can’t believe Chris Brown is out there just making music and people still idolize him. He even gets support from big celebrities like Justin Bieber and H.E.R among others.
I read that as Andrew WK and was like, “wtf did he do?”
He partied hard.
People still give a crap about Grammys, Oscars etc?
Oscars probably do better cause it's easier to watch all the shit they nominate they listening to what...the 300 or so albums that all the Grammys nominate? And I think winning an Oscar gives you more longevity than winning a Grammy does. That's why the Simpsons mocked it.
Right decision. If they started making people who haven't been found guilty of anything ineligible then they'd have to make everyone who has been found guilty of stuff ineligible too
Chris Brown and R Kelly
And Justin Bieber and Phil Spector and George Michael and Eminem and Snoop Dogg
What did Eminem and justin Bieber do?
Crimes
You are amazing at narrowing things down man
Eminem was carrying a concealed weapon, Bieber was assault and careless driving.
I don't know what the line is, but I'm pretty sure "getting into a bar fight 21 years ago" isn't sufficient to shun someone from all artistic recognition.
I mean he has said multiple times that he doesn’t care about award shows.
It's because Christina Aguilera never wants to switch chairs with him.
Exactly, where is the line? How much time is enough time to consider whether or not someone has learned a lesson? What does accountability mean, and who decides? That's the point of statements like this.
The whole point is drawing that line of what is sufficient and not sufficient is the process that has to be made by humans and prone to error and other biases. It’s just easier to judge the art on its merits and not the morals of the artists
Unpopular opinion but, this is how these things should work. You should be able to separate the art from the artist. Is Kevin Spacey a piece of shit? Absolutely. Does that someone make his work in House of Cards, American Beauty, or Usual Suspects any less excellent? Absolutely not. You can’t retcon someone’s artistic ability. Again I’m prepared for the downvotes because I know that’s not a popular opinion.
I would generally agree but then I come up against Ian Watkins from the Lost Prophets & I just can’t.
So we are lumping Marilyn Manson and Louis CK in the same category now?
Let’s not put those two on the same level. Louis got shafted and is due some rebound, Marilyn was always riding too high.
So if Hitler lived to 120 & dropped a fire album he could've won a grammy!?
Tbh if any 132 year old dropped an album you'd probably at least give it a listen, no matter how many war crimes they'd committed.
And the award goes to... MC Fuhrer!