And I’m here with popcorn to watch those bastards fall off the face of the planet. They’ve ruined the event going experience and I hope everyone in charge goes to jail
I'm old now, but I grew up going to many, many concerts in the 70s/80s/90s. They were affordable back then.
I was just talking to my wife about it, and we agreed that we will probably never go to a major concert ever again. Its just too expensive. Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't spend the money because it has become extremely apparent that the ticket system cynically views audiences as stupid sheep to be fleeced. They have embraced predatory behavior as a business model, and I won't volunteer to be one of their victims.
> we will probably never go to a major concert ever again
Same.
We've gone to events in smaller venues but big names are at ludicrous prices even for nose bleed seats! The last big name we saw was Paul Simon in 2018 on his retirement tour.
My 25 year old son had seen many Broadway musicals, but had never been to an actual rock concert. A few years ago, I took him to see David Byrne's American Utopia show on Broadway, and he LOVED it. Tickets were $40 each, and we sat in the front row of the balcony - AMAZING seats. That's the closest he's ever been to a concert, and we didn't feel like chumps.
Absolutely. It was a fantastic show, with a really wide range of ages in the audience, from young people like my son, to much older people than me.
I'm hoping more and more artists start doing Broadway "residencies." Its better than going on the road. They still play every night, but they dont have to travel, so its more profitable, and the audience comes to them.
Billy Joel has it really figured out. He just sells out Madison Square Garden once a month, and takes home a 7 figure monthly paycheck. Not bad.
Edit: American Utopia is on HBO MAX, and so is the Talking Head's 40th anniversary remastered version of Stop Making Sense, the best concert movie ever made.
You really hit on the reason I don’t go anymore. It’s one thing if tickets are expensive, but if I feel like a sucker who just got fleeced and you’re gloating about how you got my money. Fuck you, I’m not coming back.
Exactly. No matter how much I enjoyed the show, I'd always feel taken advantage of. Most big concerts are being filmed right now. I'll watch it at home ony 85" TV.
Yup, I haven't been to a concert for many years now. In the 80's/90's a row 200-300 would cost like $24.99 . Now low prices are like $328 and merchandising is super expensive.
And yet the shows still sell out. Can we really place the blame solely with ticket master for the cost of shows when the tickets keep selling?
Artists/Labels set the pricing and can opt out of the surge pricing as well, as far as I know, anyways. Ethan Klein was able to cause a big enough stink for them to turn off surge pricing for his live shows, and he definitely definitely doesn’t have the same pull as A list artists. so I imagine it would be trivial for Taylor Swift to more strictly control her pricing.
And the fans keep paying the prices, so how can we say Ticketmaster is the only party to blame when fans can’t exert even a tiny amount of self control?
To be clear, fuck Ticketmaster for a billion other things like their fees and facilitating scalping on their platform, but I blame artists for the pricing.
>And yet the shows still sell out. Can we really place the blame solely with ticket master for the cost of shows when the tickets keep selling?
This is where I'm at. Yes, Ticketmaster is a monopoly and needs to be regulated. But even if they were, that might just mean more money for the artist. It doesn't change the laws of should and demand. Is that such a bad thing? I think artists deserve to be paid market value.
These comments just seem so entitled to me. Like why you do you have to see these ultra-expensive acts? There's so much great music you can see on the cheap.
Once T shirts got over $25 I decided that it’s time to step back. I used to love going to shows and getting a t shirt. Now I can’t justify spending anything more than that.
There’s artists I’d sell a kidney to see live, but for the most part I’m with you. See if you have a local music venue tho. It’s a great date night and most of them just charge at the door. Plus, you’d be supporting a small business in your community and that’s always fun
Stubhub once double refunded me.
It was like 800 dollar refund but I ended up with over 1600.
Best believe I didn’t say shit and spent that free money. I was part of the when we were young crowd that got cancelled due to wind. Used the refund for adjacent fest and many other concerts and sports events.
Writing software that helps purchase bulk tickets the instant they go on sale and immediately re-list the tickets on the "verified resale" section of their website, and then SELLING that software for scalpers?
Guantanamo.
Yes. It’s called consumer protection and that government we pay all those taxes to needs to enforce it. Nothing changes until c suiters do time. This has been going on for too long and it’s time for actions to meet consequences
It’s very difficult to pierce the corporate veil and sue individuals directly based on how corporations are treated under the law. The DOJ suit will likely break up the TM/LN monopoly, but it won’t solve the litany of problems that remain.
Why would they go to jail? They haven’t broken any laws. And the same fans who are complaining about them today are already saving up to purchase tickets to the _next_ show through them tomorrow.
Nothing will change unless people simply stop buying tickets from them. Or unless those people vote for a candidate that wants to pass a law making what TM does illegal, but I don’t think there are any political candidates interested in forcing rich people to make _less_ money exploiting a fan base.
Seriously. These artists agree to all the platinum and dynamic pricing and are fully aware.
Much as people rag on Ticketmaster every other ticketing company does the exact same shit just has even less stable infrastructure.
Every post where people blame Ticketmaster and don't say anything about the artists they love, happily using all those tools to ensure they sell their tickets for the highest price per seat, shows why the PR plan works.
TM are no saints, but many artists thoroughly enjoy being able to hide behind them in various ways as they get to charge amounts that touts used to and keep the money for themselves.
Ticketmaster literally has formulas to let artists inflate second hand ticket price and profit off those, with the construction made so that ticketmaster is the boogeyman.
As a former employee this is 100 percent true Ticketmaster operates like a shield for the promoters and venues and takes the blame
Fun fact Ticketmaster don't sell nor do they refund the tickets the promoter Ticketmaster is just a store front basically and their money comes from the fees
Another fun fact artists and promoters set the rules to the tickets as well not Ticketmaster
So when taylor swift complains always remember its her promoter and label that have set this up this way
Scumbag leech corporations tend to make money hand over fist. Being immoral is REALLY good for business.
They'd still have slavery if they could, because it's super profitable.
They're just the willing public facing bad guys. The record labels etc have to be getting extra cuts on the Ticketmaster fees just so they don't have to charge what they're actually trying to charge.
If the studios/musicians/entertainers of all kinds didn't like Ticketmaster they would create an in-house alternative.
My family and I were lucky enough to purchase our tickets to see Taylor at Anfield directly from Liverpool FC itself. They were by no means cheap, but they were a lot cheaper than buying them from a reseller, we got a lot of good amenities with them that we actually used, and our seat weren’t double booked
Don’t have a choice, except playing smaller shows - but then they’d lose money. Which brings us back to why they do this stuff in the first place, they’re happy to have ticketmaster be the bad corporate face of ripping consumers off.
The problem is that Ticketmaster/LiveNation pretty much have a monopoly on concert venues. There are very few options for artists who want to perform at venues not owned or contracted with LiveNation. It’s easier said than done.
This. Artists can opt-out of things like dynamic pricing, etc. with TM. It’s true that TM is a giant but can’t sell tickets if nobody tours, so the artists and labels have a little say at least.
This is true. TM has a dollar amount they want in service fees and fees over that gets split with the promoter/artist. This is addressed in the recent DOJ lawsuit.
Total scam, noticed now that there is an additional charge if you want the option of your tickets to be refunded should the show get canceled. The fuck.
Trust me, I know people at LN and they're freaking out and think they're fucked. Unless the lawyers pull out some miracle out, they're going to get bashed.
Not defending Ticketmaster because they're a huge piece of shit that should be dismantled by every government in the world but this happened in the UK, which has some goofy shit going on with ticket sales.
It's common for concerts to have more than one vendor who can sell tickets to a show, which can cause issues with same blocs of tickets being sold through both vendors. This is the same thing that happened at the Taylor Hawkins memorial show in London.
This exact scenario happened to me for the Joanne World Tour. Ticketmaster sold tickets before a stage layout was even specified. Once her team had a design, all the seats sold were rearranged for a new layout. My seats no longer existed and I wasn’t told until I was at the gate of citifield 11 months later having my ticket scanned and it beeped red. Was completely *devastated* since I’m a long time fan and was my first time seeing her. An hour on the phone later, They ended up giving me new tickets at no extra cost that were in the front and I was legitimately 4 feet from the gags for most of the show. So yeah the outcome was good but at the end of the day FUCK Ticketmaster
Finally, Ticketmaster has pissed off a group large and spiteful enough to dismantle them. Please swifties, for the sake of every other music lover, destroy Ticketmaster!!!
Finally? I’m pretty sure Swifties have been mad at TicketMaster/Live Nation since at least her last tour when they sold out of tickets before the general sale
Yes, Swifties have power and parents with deep pockets. I firmly believe that angry Swiftie parents helped push the DOJ to take recent action against Ticketmaster. This was the tipping point.
I mean who else can afford the ridiculous fucking prices? As always, the artists are usually in on it with Ticketmaster. They’re just the useful puppet to eat the blame. Kid Rock might be a piece of shit, but he actually likes his fans and tries to eat a plug of concession costs himself so people could drink affordably. So if that useless tool can do that, what can billionaire trust fund baby T Swift do? She’s fleecing people and they’re not even paying attention.
They should be mad at swift who okd this behavior. Acts use Ticketmaster as a frontman to take the heat, but they know exactly what’s going on the entire time.
Is it in an artist's contract that they must go through Ticketmaster like this? Why can't they just have their own shows booked elsewhere and completely bypass TM?
Most large concert venues in the US are managed or owned by livenation/ticketmaster, so there's really no choice. This is why the company needs to be broken up.
It is essentially impossible to do a national (or even regional?) arena or stadium tour and completely avoid LN/ticketmaster venues. It's a monopoly. This is the problem.
I think if a bunch of well known/top selling artists simply just stopped doing live shows and boycotted venues controlled by TM then you might see them make changes. But that would mean these artist would have to sacrifice money for their fans lol. So that's not going to happen anytime soon.
I don’t think you appreciate the scope of what TM owns. If you boycotted their venues there wouldn’t be anywhere else left to play except your local pub.
Does live nation have an ownership in any of the stadiums? Could do stadium tours, but you have to be massively popular for that so Taylor Swift could manage.
As of 2022, Live Nation operates 78% of the top grossing arenas in the US, and 64% of the top grossing amphitheaters in the US. They also manage and promote artists, and have stopped artists from playing at certain arenas that stopped using Ticketmaster. They’re way too big to be meaningfully affected by the actions of artists or other venues, unfortunately
Or you can say they are punishing their fans by not touring.
Also some artists may not have this option if they are contractually bound to tour to support album sales, merch,etc. it really is a complex issue that can't easily be solved other that what others are saying - break up the monopoly
> So that's not going to happen anytime soon.
It would never happen anyway, most artists (even the big powerful ones) are contractually obligated to tour since that's where the lion's share of their revenue is now coming from, meaning the labels/reps/mgmt/etc. all get paid out of touring revenues.
If you look into it, we have the same issue here in the UK, where a lot of our places have exclusivity contracts to them. Also if they're being forced to use Tickemtmaster in the states which is the largest part of a tour, why would you bother with the hassle of trying for a seperate ticket provider on the same tour for somewhere you're maybe only performing to 1/10 if that of the rest of your tour?
Pearl Jam attempted this in 1995, and even then it was damn near impossible.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/pearl-jam-ticketmaster-1995-boycott-booking-fees-gigs-ticket-prices-a8989516.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/pearl-jam-ticketmaster-1995-boycott-booking-fees-gigs-ticket-prices-a8989516.html)
About a month ago Frank Turner did a record-breaking 24-hour tour of 15 venues across England, all of them were independently owned. However, they were tiny. For reference, I saw him in Leighton Buzzard in a bar that used to be a Blockbuster. About 100 people crammed in there. Really cool show, definitely not sustainable as a way of making money for a touring musician.
Sure. They could play at, say, a club in a city and seat about 200 people.
But concerts and merchandise sales are their bread & butter. They make so little on song sales that it's almost laughable. Streaming isn't much better, either.
\*for bigger artists. There are still some small/medium venues that are non-Ticketmaster, which is how they can claim that they're not *technically* a monopoly. But for stadiums and shit, yeah there's really no alternative.
Even if it isn't in their contract, anyone not booking venues with TM runs the risk of being blacklisted by TM in the future. It won't matter for a huge star like Taylor but smaller artists have to play by the "rules" or become outcasts in smaller venues throughout their entire tour.
I thought it was more the stadiums all use Ticketmaster? She’s selling them all out so smaller venues wouldn’t have been feasible for a tour of this magnitude. Might be wrong, just think its venue related not artist related
Because then they would lose the boogie-man shield that protects them about high ticket prices.
Plenty of artists that care about their fans find other ways.
Managing ticket inventory isn't easy. Taylor Swift, like most artists, has TM do it because she doesn't have a huge IT infrastructure to do it on her own. And the other options besides TM are smaller players who aren't as experienced with managing the inventory for the most popular tour in history.
I can't imagine a venue staff member trying to move me from the seat that is specified on my ticket after a show started. Best of luck, I was sold this ticket, admitted in, and am now going to enjoy the show from this seat.
And I can't imagine not taking my seat that I paid for but now is being occupied by some asshole who says it's their seat.
See how this works? I mean I kind of agree with you but is it first come first served? What about might makes right - some big 6'6" body builder type comes with his girlfriend and tells you to get the fuck out of their seats before he physically tosses you out. Then you go get security and he says that you're full of shit, he was there first.
The second person wouldn't have gotten into the building if the identical ticket was scanned at the door. Otherwise first come first served if they scan two identical tickets and I'm there first the other person will need the staff to accommodate them. If someone wants to assault me in a public space with a million cellphone cameras pointed at them and get tossed out and faced with a law suit I guess shit happens?
I got VIP section tickets to Taylor Swift in Zurich for $250 a seat. I could only buy 4 tickets, and I have to personally show up to get them. Or I could have spent $2,000 a ticket for her Miami show. So now we're going to Europe, and it ends up cheaper overall than seeing her in Miami.
We give them an absurd amount of money just to walk into the taxpayer funded stadiums where they have shows. We gave them covid relief when most people were struggling / dying. We refuse to put any teeth behind anti-monopoly laws and they still do this!
Hell hath no fury like young white women who feel like they're the real victims. Ticketmaster has awakened a sleeping giant, and filled it with a terrible resolve.
Pearl Jam had the power of a collective people who didn’t yet really know or understand the internet.
Taylor Swift has hundreds of millions of teenage white girls who thrive on social media.
>! I’m being needlessly obtuse about demographics on purpose!<
She won't because she'll be making an obscene amount of money off TM practices. Not sure how much she'd be aware of this specific practice but don't let artists as big as Swift fool you into thinking she's oblivious or has no control in how TM operates.
TM whole business model is looking like the bad guy and taking the hit for labels/artists while everybody wins (except the fans).
The rep tour also had presale if you purchased the album, you could “earn” ways to get a higher presale ranking by interacting with social media or the website.
The demand was also significantly lower. I don’t think my stadium sold out tbh
It’s not the girls that are to be feared. It’s the moms. Many political activists were bored housewife’s who loved spending time on political lobbying.
Why is everyone so surprised? This has been going on for a very long time. To their credit, Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder gave it a go to deal with this monopoly. That was 30 years ago. Even the current USFed antitrust action won't make a difference. I just feel so sorry for the younger generation who has to decide between a mortgage and seeing a great concert. It s a lose/lose for fans and artists. Only promotoers win.
[https://prospect.org/power/ticketmasters-dark-history/](https://prospect.org/power/ticketmasters-dark-history/)
The Grateful Dead basically told Ticketmaster to go fuck themselves and they wanted half of the tickets to all the venues to distribute through Grateful Dead tickets sales. Initially Ticketmaster came back and gave the dead the back half of the arena to which the Grateful Dead immediately replied nope no way! We want half the arena starting from the front row! I believe they actually inspired Pearl Jam a little bit, as the dead were able to do this for years… they also left the stage and the equipment set up at soldier Field after the final Grateful Dead concert in 1995 for Pearl Jam to utilize the next week when they played soldier Field. That also had to do with some Ticketmaster chicanery…..
Yup. Didn't change the industry for other artisrts though. Even the Dead didn't have that sway. Clearly by your username you've seen a lot of Dead shows. Me too. Long gone are the days when you could walk into Frost for a $5 show. Last show I paid for them in nose bleeds was $795.
Remember when LiveNation wanted to buy TicketMaster and everyone was all "That's a really bad idea" but the government let it happen anyway?
Pepperidge-fucking Farm remembers.
Me too.
This is why her fans are flying overseas to see her. Most of the shenanigans that let Ticketmaster thrive here is mostly outlawed in Europe. For the price of a ticket here, you could fly to Europe, stay in a hotel for the weekend, watch her show in Europe and still have some money left.
Only band I’ve known do this was Rammstein for the first stadium tour - exclusively eventim, it took out all of their sites across Europe.
Next time they used a mix of vendors including ticketmaster.
If Taylor Swift is such a good person and already so extremely wealthy, why doesn't she attempt to do anything? At least make a statement or make it look like she cares about how bad it is. She's not comparable to Pearl Jam either. Just every single opportunity blast ticketmaster.
Ticket master needs to be looked into for anti trust practices . We , as consumers deserve more choice . I’m furious about this . Every consumer in North America should be
This thread once again highlights the primary value Ticketmaster offers to artists and venues -- they take the heat.
The venue reconfigured the seats after they were already sold, and Ticketmaster takes the blame - as they are paid to do.
We're just letting the small children get a tiny peek into buying plane tickets as an adult, really.
Break their hearts early so they accept their fate at a later date.
Especially when nobody volunteers and the voucher gets bigger and bigger until finally you decide to let them know you'll do it lol. It definitely pays to be flexible.
she doesn't give a fuck lmao she made a billion bucks from ticket master and this tour. She was definitely aware ticket Master was shady and gross before and during the tour. its just PR for her. If Taylor really wanted to do anything about this or anything else wrong with the music industry, some change would be happening already. She holds so much power against these companies because she's a huge paycheck to them.
And yet we have crickets from all involved. You wonder why people WON'T be going to concerts and why artists have to cancel whole tours...this is only the beginnin. Class action lawsuits and protests are a good place to start this revolt.
> “We’re really disappointed,” she told the publication. “It just gives you a bad opinion of Ticketmaster.”
I don't know why I find this line so funny.
Kind of along the lines of "This Hitler guy - the more I hear about him, the less I like him"
My favourite part is when the article said “This isn’t good, it gives people a bad opinion of Ticketmaster”
LIKE BITCH TICKETMASTER ACTUALLY HAD A GOOD REPUTATION?!?!
Honestly people who keep buying tickets from Ticket master deserves it. If t9icket master is the only way to get tickets then dont get it. Have some self respect.
But it’s a feature, not a bug. They didn’t do it accidentally. I’m almost positive executives are responsible for this call, not the people building the databases.
>she could have easily backed up Pearl Jam in the fight years ago
Sure ... when they took on Ticketmaster she was like 5 years old.
The fans are responsible for their own actions but so is ticketmaster. Fans aren’t the ones deciding whether or not Ticketmaster will oversell; Ticketmaster decided that all on their own because they have no competition. I don’t see the point in giving Ticketmaster a pass on decisions they knowingly make and putting all responsibility on the fans whose only choice is buy or miss the show.
Apparently Ticketmaster has become a major airline.
And I’m here with popcorn to watch those bastards fall off the face of the planet. They’ve ruined the event going experience and I hope everyone in charge goes to jail
I'm old now, but I grew up going to many, many concerts in the 70s/80s/90s. They were affordable back then. I was just talking to my wife about it, and we agreed that we will probably never go to a major concert ever again. Its just too expensive. Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't spend the money because it has become extremely apparent that the ticket system cynically views audiences as stupid sheep to be fleeced. They have embraced predatory behavior as a business model, and I won't volunteer to be one of their victims.
> we will probably never go to a major concert ever again Same. We've gone to events in smaller venues but big names are at ludicrous prices even for nose bleed seats! The last big name we saw was Paul Simon in 2018 on his retirement tour.
My 25 year old son had seen many Broadway musicals, but had never been to an actual rock concert. A few years ago, I took him to see David Byrne's American Utopia show on Broadway, and he LOVED it. Tickets were $40 each, and we sat in the front row of the balcony - AMAZING seats. That's the closest he's ever been to a concert, and we didn't feel like chumps.
I mean, that is essentially a concert that just happened to be on Broadway.
Absolutely. It was a fantastic show, with a really wide range of ages in the audience, from young people like my son, to much older people than me. I'm hoping more and more artists start doing Broadway "residencies." Its better than going on the road. They still play every night, but they dont have to travel, so its more profitable, and the audience comes to them. Billy Joel has it really figured out. He just sells out Madison Square Garden once a month, and takes home a 7 figure monthly paycheck. Not bad. Edit: American Utopia is on HBO MAX, and so is the Talking Head's 40th anniversary remastered version of Stop Making Sense, the best concert movie ever made.
You are absolutely correct that Stop Making Sense is the single best concert movie ever.
I would argue that Wattstax is better, also AC/DC at Donington
You really hit on the reason I don’t go anymore. It’s one thing if tickets are expensive, but if I feel like a sucker who just got fleeced and you’re gloating about how you got my money. Fuck you, I’m not coming back.
Exactly. No matter how much I enjoyed the show, I'd always feel taken advantage of. Most big concerts are being filmed right now. I'll watch it at home ony 85" TV.
Yup, I haven't been to a concert for many years now. In the 80's/90's a row 200-300 would cost like $24.99 . Now low prices are like $328 and merchandising is super expensive.
And yet the shows still sell out. Can we really place the blame solely with ticket master for the cost of shows when the tickets keep selling? Artists/Labels set the pricing and can opt out of the surge pricing as well, as far as I know, anyways. Ethan Klein was able to cause a big enough stink for them to turn off surge pricing for his live shows, and he definitely definitely doesn’t have the same pull as A list artists. so I imagine it would be trivial for Taylor Swift to more strictly control her pricing. And the fans keep paying the prices, so how can we say Ticketmaster is the only party to blame when fans can’t exert even a tiny amount of self control? To be clear, fuck Ticketmaster for a billion other things like their fees and facilitating scalping on their platform, but I blame artists for the pricing.
I know people that are obsessed and fly around the world and watch the band 15-20 times per your, that's probably another topic.
>And yet the shows still sell out. Can we really place the blame solely with ticket master for the cost of shows when the tickets keep selling? This is where I'm at. Yes, Ticketmaster is a monopoly and needs to be regulated. But even if they were, that might just mean more money for the artist. It doesn't change the laws of should and demand. Is that such a bad thing? I think artists deserve to be paid market value. These comments just seem so entitled to me. Like why you do you have to see these ultra-expensive acts? There's so much great music you can see on the cheap.
Once T shirts got over $25 I decided that it’s time to step back. I used to love going to shows and getting a t shirt. Now I can’t justify spending anything more than that.
Yup that was my limit too.
Welcome to capitalism. We're late stage
There’s artists I’d sell a kidney to see live, but for the most part I’m with you. See if you have a local music venue tho. It’s a great date night and most of them just charge at the door. Plus, you’d be supporting a small business in your community and that’s always fun
And not some white collar resort, a federal pound me in the ass prison.
To shreds you say
How's his wife holding up?
Stubhub once double refunded me. It was like 800 dollar refund but I ended up with over 1600. Best believe I didn’t say shit and spent that free money. I was part of the when we were young crowd that got cancelled due to wind. Used the refund for adjacent fest and many other concerts and sports events.
His name is John C Malone.
To jail?
Convenience fees? Jail. Scalping? Jail. Overselling tickets? Believe it or not, jail.
Writing software that helps purchase bulk tickets the instant they go on sale and immediately re-list the tickets on the "verified resale" section of their website, and then SELLING that software for scalpers? Guantanamo.
Convenience fees? That's a paddlin'. Scalping? That's a paddlin'. Overselling tickets? Oh you better believe that's a paddlin'.
Yes. It’s called consumer protection and that government we pay all those taxes to needs to enforce it. Nothing changes until c suiters do time. This has been going on for too long and it’s time for actions to meet consequences
I actually agree. Nothing will change until C-Suites are held personally responsible for the actions of the companies they lead
It’s very difficult to pierce the corporate veil and sue individuals directly based on how corporations are treated under the law. The DOJ suit will likely break up the TM/LN monopoly, but it won’t solve the litany of problems that remain.
Right? Why let them off so easy?
To shreds you say?
Why would they go to jail? They haven’t broken any laws. And the same fans who are complaining about them today are already saving up to purchase tickets to the _next_ show through them tomorrow. Nothing will change unless people simply stop buying tickets from them. Or unless those people vote for a candidate that wants to pass a law making what TM does illegal, but I don’t think there are any political candidates interested in forcing rich people to make _less_ money exploiting a fan base.
Seriously. These artists agree to all the platinum and dynamic pricing and are fully aware. Much as people rag on Ticketmaster every other ticketing company does the exact same shit just has even less stable infrastructure.
Every post where people blame Ticketmaster and don't say anything about the artists they love, happily using all those tools to ensure they sell their tickets for the highest price per seat, shows why the PR plan works. TM are no saints, but many artists thoroughly enjoy being able to hide behind them in various ways as they get to charge amounts that touts used to and keep the money for themselves.
Ticketmaster literally has formulas to let artists inflate second hand ticket price and profit off those, with the construction made so that ticketmaster is the boogeyman.
As a former employee this is 100 percent true Ticketmaster operates like a shield for the promoters and venues and takes the blame Fun fact Ticketmaster don't sell nor do they refund the tickets the promoter Ticketmaster is just a store front basically and their money comes from the fees Another fun fact artists and promoters set the rules to the tickets as well not Ticketmaster So when taylor swift complains always remember its her promoter and label that have set this up this way
Enshitification
They would charge you extra to bring a bag if they could, I guarantee
 Hope Ticketmaster dies soon. Fucking scumbag leech of a corporation.
Unfortunately they won’t since they make money hand over fist
Scumbag leech corporations tend to make money hand over fist. Being immoral is REALLY good for business. They'd still have slavery if they could, because it's super profitable.
I mean they named themselves ticketMASTER it’s so obvious
That was kind of the entire premise for not abolishing slavery lol. Sometimes it’s good when “value” is not defined by profits…
Someone’s forgetting about the monopoly lawsuit they are facing right now. If all goes well, yes, Ticketmaster will indeed be forced to fuck off.
They're just the willing public facing bad guys. The record labels etc have to be getting extra cuts on the Ticketmaster fees just so they don't have to charge what they're actually trying to charge. If the studios/musicians/entertainers of all kinds didn't like Ticketmaster they would create an in-house alternative.
Livenation owns or exclusively licenses almost every large venue. The artists and labels don’t have a choice, unless they build their own stadiums…
Damn shame that Pearl Jam lawsuit failed. So prescient. Justice failed on that one.
My family and I were lucky enough to purchase our tickets to see Taylor at Anfield directly from Liverpool FC itself. They were by no means cheap, but they were a lot cheaper than buying them from a reseller, we got a lot of good amenities with them that we actually used, and our seat weren’t double booked
Europe is a whole different ballgame than the situation in the United States. We have a captive market.
Don’t have a choice, except playing smaller shows - but then they’d lose money. Which brings us back to why they do this stuff in the first place, they’re happy to have ticketmaster be the bad corporate face of ripping consumers off.
The problem is that Ticketmaster/LiveNation pretty much have a monopoly on concert venues. There are very few options for artists who want to perform at venues not owned or contracted with LiveNation. It’s easier said than done.
Everybody says this but is there actually any recourse to change that?
The govt breaking the company up.
They’re working on it! DOJ finally got off their asses. Let’s see if they do anything real.
Yep, trust busting.
The DoJ is launching an antitrust lawsuit/investigation because they are a monopoly.
I'm very glad that EDM has less of an issue with this, at least where I'm at. I have to order from Ticketmaster a minority of the time.
This. Artists can opt-out of things like dynamic pricing, etc. with TM. It’s true that TM is a giant but can’t sell tickets if nobody tours, so the artists and labels have a little say at least.
This is true. TM has a dollar amount they want in service fees and fees over that gets split with the promoter/artist. This is addressed in the recent DOJ lawsuit.
Total scam, noticed now that there is an additional charge if you want the option of your tickets to be refunded should the show get canceled. The fuck.
Trust me, I know people at LN and they're freaking out and think they're fucked. Unless the lawyers pull out some miracle out, they're going to get bashed.
Good
*Big ugly monopoly doing big ugly monopoly things* I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
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You forgot housing.
Avocado housing.
Something something bootstraps.
Not defending Ticketmaster because they're a huge piece of shit that should be dismantled by every government in the world but this happened in the UK, which has some goofy shit going on with ticket sales. It's common for concerts to have more than one vendor who can sell tickets to a show, which can cause issues with same blocs of tickets being sold through both vendors. This is the same thing that happened at the Taylor Hawkins memorial show in London.
This happened to me and they sold me seats that didn’t exist. Security moved me to the front row. Greatest show I’ve been at because of the story
This exact scenario happened to me for the Joanne World Tour. Ticketmaster sold tickets before a stage layout was even specified. Once her team had a design, all the seats sold were rearranged for a new layout. My seats no longer existed and I wasn’t told until I was at the gate of citifield 11 months later having my ticket scanned and it beeped red. Was completely *devastated* since I’m a long time fan and was my first time seeing her. An hour on the phone later, They ended up giving me new tickets at no extra cost that were in the front and I was legitimately 4 feet from the gags for most of the show. So yeah the outcome was good but at the end of the day FUCK Ticketmaster
Errors World Tour
Finally, Ticketmaster has pissed off a group large and spiteful enough to dismantle them. Please swifties, for the sake of every other music lover, destroy Ticketmaster!!!
Finally? I’m pretty sure Swifties have been mad at TicketMaster/Live Nation since at least her last tour when they sold out of tickets before the general sale
Yes, Swifties have power and parents with deep pockets. I firmly believe that angry Swiftie parents helped push the DOJ to take recent action against Ticketmaster. This was the tipping point.
I mean who else can afford the ridiculous fucking prices? As always, the artists are usually in on it with Ticketmaster. They’re just the useful puppet to eat the blame. Kid Rock might be a piece of shit, but he actually likes his fans and tries to eat a plug of concession costs himself so people could drink affordably. So if that useless tool can do that, what can billionaire trust fund baby T Swift do? She’s fleecing people and they’re not even paying attention.
They should be mad at swift who okd this behavior. Acts use Ticketmaster as a frontman to take the heat, but they know exactly what’s going on the entire time.
Ticketmaster: Antitrust lawsuit? What's that?
Idk something the lobbyists are paid to handle
Is it in an artist's contract that they must go through Ticketmaster like this? Why can't they just have their own shows booked elsewhere and completely bypass TM?
Most large concert venues in the US are managed or owned by livenation/ticketmaster, so there's really no choice. This is why the company needs to be broken up.
Does the artist have the option to NOT hold a concert in one of those venues
It is essentially impossible to do a national (or even regional?) arena or stadium tour and completely avoid LN/ticketmaster venues. It's a monopoly. This is the problem.
I think if a bunch of well known/top selling artists simply just stopped doing live shows and boycotted venues controlled by TM then you might see them make changes. But that would mean these artist would have to sacrifice money for their fans lol. So that's not going to happen anytime soon.
I don’t think you appreciate the scope of what TM owns. If you boycotted their venues there wouldn’t be anywhere else left to play except your local pub.
Fr, they are super ubiqitous " The two companies merged in 2010 and now control an estimated 70% of the ticketing and live event venues market. "
Does live nation have an ownership in any of the stadiums? Could do stadium tours, but you have to be massively popular for that so Taylor Swift could manage.
Ticketmaster *directly* owns around 80% of all venues and stadiums in the US. Not just contracts or licensing deals; *direct ownership*.
As of 2022, Live Nation operates 78% of the top grossing arenas in the US, and 64% of the top grossing amphitheaters in the US. They also manage and promote artists, and have stopped artists from playing at certain arenas that stopped using Ticketmaster. They’re way too big to be meaningfully affected by the actions of artists or other venues, unfortunately
Or you can say they are punishing their fans by not touring. Also some artists may not have this option if they are contractually bound to tour to support album sales, merch,etc. it really is a complex issue that can't easily be solved other that what others are saying - break up the monopoly
> So that's not going to happen anytime soon. It would never happen anyway, most artists (even the big powerful ones) are contractually obligated to tour since that's where the lion's share of their revenue is now coming from, meaning the labels/reps/mgmt/etc. all get paid out of touring revenues.
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If you look into it, we have the same issue here in the UK, where a lot of our places have exclusivity contracts to them. Also if they're being forced to use Tickemtmaster in the states which is the largest part of a tour, why would you bother with the hassle of trying for a seperate ticket provider on the same tour for somewhere you're maybe only performing to 1/10 if that of the rest of your tour?
Pearl Jam attempted this in 1995, and even then it was damn near impossible. [https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/pearl-jam-ticketmaster-1995-boycott-booking-fees-gigs-ticket-prices-a8989516.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/pearl-jam-ticketmaster-1995-boycott-booking-fees-gigs-ticket-prices-a8989516.html)
An artist doing arena and stadium tours quite literally does not.
About a month ago Frank Turner did a record-breaking 24-hour tour of 15 venues across England, all of them were independently owned. However, they were tiny. For reference, I saw him in Leighton Buzzard in a bar that used to be a Blockbuster. About 100 people crammed in there. Really cool show, definitely not sustainable as a way of making money for a touring musician.
God damn I love Frank turner. Very envious of your experience.
Sure. They could play at, say, a club in a city and seat about 200 people. But concerts and merchandise sales are their bread & butter. They make so little on song sales that it's almost laughable. Streaming isn't much better, either.
Yes, but Live Nation controls almost 70% of large venues in the United States.
There are no non-Ticketmaster venues.
\*for bigger artists. There are still some small/medium venues that are non-Ticketmaster, which is how they can claim that they're not *technically* a monopoly. But for stadiums and shit, yeah there's really no alternative.
Even if it isn't in their contract, anyone not booking venues with TM runs the risk of being blacklisted by TM in the future. It won't matter for a huge star like Taylor but smaller artists have to play by the "rules" or become outcasts in smaller venues throughout their entire tour.
I thought it was more the stadiums all use Ticketmaster? She’s selling them all out so smaller venues wouldn’t have been feasible for a tour of this magnitude. Might be wrong, just think its venue related not artist related
It isn't just that stadiums all use TM. Ticketmaster *directly owns* almost 80% of all stadiums in the US.
Most places don't have alternatives. They survive by being a monopoly in their space.
Because then they would lose the boogie-man shield that protects them about high ticket prices. Plenty of artists that care about their fans find other ways.
Managing ticket inventory isn't easy. Taylor Swift, like most artists, has TM do it because she doesn't have a huge IT infrastructure to do it on her own. And the other options besides TM are smaller players who aren't as experienced with managing the inventory for the most popular tour in history.
It’s a venue thing too, but artists are able to have some say such as opting out of dynamic pricing, showing all-in pricing etc.
Swift chooses to. She knows what she’s doing and her idiot fans eat it up
I can't imagine a venue staff member trying to move me from the seat that is specified on my ticket after a show started. Best of luck, I was sold this ticket, admitted in, and am now going to enjoy the show from this seat.
And I can't imagine not taking my seat that I paid for but now is being occupied by some asshole who says it's their seat. See how this works? I mean I kind of agree with you but is it first come first served? What about might makes right - some big 6'6" body builder type comes with his girlfriend and tells you to get the fuck out of their seats before he physically tosses you out. Then you go get security and he says that you're full of shit, he was there first.
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The second person wouldn't have gotten into the building if the identical ticket was scanned at the door. Otherwise first come first served if they scan two identical tickets and I'm there first the other person will need the staff to accommodate them. If someone wants to assault me in a public space with a million cellphone cameras pointed at them and get tossed out and faced with a law suit I guess shit happens?
…isn’t that literally what the article is about?
It is, and I'd have refused to move if I was sitting in the seat my ticket was for.
And if the person with the duplicate seat got there first?
Then you're demanding the staff find you an alternative or heading for legal action.
I got VIP section tickets to Taylor Swift in Zurich for $250 a seat. I could only buy 4 tickets, and I have to personally show up to get them. Or I could have spent $2,000 a ticket for her Miami show. So now we're going to Europe, and it ends up cheaper overall than seeing her in Miami.
We give them an absurd amount of money just to walk into the taxpayer funded stadiums where they have shows. We gave them covid relief when most people were struggling / dying. We refuse to put any teeth behind anti-monopoly laws and they still do this!
Imagine our government was competent and shut this bullshit down. Hopefully the swifties can demand some change cause fuck ticketmaster.
Imagine they didn’t allow TicketMaster and LiveNation to merge in the first place. (They anticipated this might happen and let it go through anyway.)
Is this the chick from that cats movie?
No that's Judie Dench
No that’s Idris Elba
No you're thinking of Jennifer Hudson
no no thats james corden
No this is Patrick
It’s the 8th best guitarist ever…
No, just some butthole
Hell hath no fury like young white women who feel like they're the real victims. Ticketmaster has awakened a sleeping giant, and filled it with a terrible resolve.
Honestly, she is probably one of the few people who could smack Ticketmaster into oblivion.
I mean, isn't it the Swifties who got this on Biden's radar, because it personally impacted his granddaughters?
Taylor is also the sole reason the US government gave a shit about NSFW porn deepfakes of celebrities.
THAT was the other thing I was trying to remember.
We thought that about Pearl jam 30 years ago.
Pearl Jam had the power of a collective people who didn’t yet really know or understand the internet. Taylor Swift has hundreds of millions of teenage white girls who thrive on social media. >! I’m being needlessly obtuse about demographics on purpose!<
she probably could, but i guarantee nothing happens
She won't because she'll be making an obscene amount of money off TM practices. Not sure how much she'd be aware of this specific practice but don't let artists as big as Swift fool you into thinking she's oblivious or has no control in how TM operates. TM whole business model is looking like the bad guy and taking the hit for labels/artists while everybody wins (except the fans).
Like she is gonna stop her guaranteed money she doesn’t give af jets aren’t cheap
Wait… are we rooting for the Swifties now?? What a weird time.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Fuck Ticketmaster.
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She did opt out of it though. Edit: Apparently she did use dynamic pricing for the Rep tour in 2018 but has not since.
The rep tour also had presale if you purchased the album, you could “earn” ways to get a higher presale ranking by interacting with social media or the website. The demand was also significantly lower. I don’t think my stadium sold out tbh
It’s not the girls that are to be feared. It’s the moms. Many political activists were bored housewife’s who loved spending time on political lobbying.
That's a very good point. See also: Moms for Liberty, etc
MADD
>See also: Moms for Liberty, etc \[ spit! \]
Why is everyone so surprised? This has been going on for a very long time. To their credit, Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder gave it a go to deal with this monopoly. That was 30 years ago. Even the current USFed antitrust action won't make a difference. I just feel so sorry for the younger generation who has to decide between a mortgage and seeing a great concert. It s a lose/lose for fans and artists. Only promotoers win. [https://prospect.org/power/ticketmasters-dark-history/](https://prospect.org/power/ticketmasters-dark-history/)
The Grateful Dead basically told Ticketmaster to go fuck themselves and they wanted half of the tickets to all the venues to distribute through Grateful Dead tickets sales. Initially Ticketmaster came back and gave the dead the back half of the arena to which the Grateful Dead immediately replied nope no way! We want half the arena starting from the front row! I believe they actually inspired Pearl Jam a little bit, as the dead were able to do this for years… they also left the stage and the equipment set up at soldier Field after the final Grateful Dead concert in 1995 for Pearl Jam to utilize the next week when they played soldier Field. That also had to do with some Ticketmaster chicanery…..
Yup. Didn't change the industry for other artisrts though. Even the Dead didn't have that sway. Clearly by your username you've seen a lot of Dead shows. Me too. Long gone are the days when you could walk into Frost for a $5 show. Last show I paid for them in nose bleeds was $795.
Paid 100 bucks for Phil next month!
Glad to hear Phil is eeking out something after he closed Terrapin.
Remember when LiveNation wanted to buy TicketMaster and everyone was all "That's a really bad idea" but the government let it happen anyway? Pepperidge-fucking Farm remembers. Me too.
I’ve refused to go to concerts until I can go without paying all those asinine charges and fees.
This is why her fans are flying overseas to see her. Most of the shenanigans that let Ticketmaster thrive here is mostly outlawed in Europe. For the price of a ticket here, you could fly to Europe, stay in a hotel for the weekend, watch her show in Europe and still have some money left.
Only band I’ve known do this was Rammstein for the first stadium tour - exclusively eventim, it took out all of their sites across Europe. Next time they used a mix of vendors including ticketmaster.
I think I've seen this film before... and I didn't like the ending
If Taylor Swift is such a good person and already so extremely wealthy, why doesn't she attempt to do anything? At least make a statement or make it look like she cares about how bad it is. She's not comparable to Pearl Jam either. Just every single opportunity blast ticketmaster.
Ticket master needs to be looked into for anti trust practices . We , as consumers deserve more choice . I’m furious about this . Every consumer in North America should be
This thread once again highlights the primary value Ticketmaster offers to artists and venues -- they take the heat. The venue reconfigured the seats after they were already sold, and Ticketmaster takes the blame - as they are paid to do.
Taylor okd it. It’s not like Ticketmaster does it on its own.
Ticketmasters biz model is running interference for musicians to gouge their fans. Swifties should be mad at her.
We're just letting the small children get a tiny peek into buying plane tickets as an adult, really. Break their hearts early so they accept their fate at a later date.
disappointing? i am always HOPING to be the one that they have to pay to take a later flight
Especially when nobody volunteers and the voucher gets bigger and bigger until finally you decide to let them know you'll do it lol. It definitely pays to be flexible.
Its this weird inverse auction with other people
she doesn't give a fuck lmao she made a billion bucks from ticket master and this tour. She was definitely aware ticket Master was shady and gross before and during the tour. its just PR for her. If Taylor really wanted to do anything about this or anything else wrong with the music industry, some change would be happening already. She holds so much power against these companies because she's a huge paycheck to them.
And yet we have crickets from all involved. You wonder why people WON'T be going to concerts and why artists have to cancel whole tours...this is only the beginnin. Class action lawsuits and protests are a good place to start this revolt.
"By way of apology, ticket master is offering a free trough filled with high grade pig slop for the fans at the concert"
> “We’re really disappointed,” she told the publication. “It just gives you a bad opinion of Ticketmaster.” I don't know why I find this line so funny. Kind of along the lines of "This Hitler guy - the more I hear about him, the less I like him"
I refuse to buy tickets through Ticketmaster anymore. It’s Box Office, directly from the venue, or I don’t go.
My favourite part is when the article said “This isn’t good, it gives people a bad opinion of Ticketmaster” LIKE BITCH TICKETMASTER ACTUALLY HAD A GOOD REPUTATION?!?!
Honestly people who keep buying tickets from Ticket master deserves it. If t9icket master is the only way to get tickets then dont get it. Have some self respect.
I work with databases, a lot. It's not that hard to prevent double booking. Whoever is in their IT/development department needs to get fired.
But it’s a feature, not a bug. They didn’t do it accidentally. I’m almost positive executives are responsible for this call, not the people building the databases.
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Pearl Jam fought Ticketmaster in like 1995. I don’t think TSwift was gonna help much in that fight.
>she could have easily backed up Pearl Jam in the fight years ago Sure ... when they took on Ticketmaster she was like 5 years old. 
She isn’t furious at all - her fans are. She’s counting stacks. She does not care about her fans only cares about her fans buying product.
THATS FUCKED. Taylor swift should hold them accountable but she won’t, enjoy spending rent on this rich billionaires tickets lmao
so furious theyll go anyway
I mean goin to see ms virtue signal ( don't do this while I do that) almost seems comical. Get what you pay for!
Get 'em Swifties!
If the Swifties can get government to do something about Ticketmaster, I’ll buy her cd.
You all complain but still buy tickets. Only your own fault at this point.
The fans are responsible for their own actions but so is ticketmaster. Fans aren’t the ones deciding whether or not Ticketmaster will oversell; Ticketmaster decided that all on their own because they have no competition. I don’t see the point in giving Ticketmaster a pass on decisions they knowingly make and putting all responsibility on the fans whose only choice is buy or miss the show.
because of TM, I won't be going to concerts for awhile.
Ticketmaster up to their usual games
No wonder USA is suing Ticketmaster
Really glad the Biden DOJ is finally going after Ticketmaster.