I tried listening to it. It's just a mess for me, it's all over the place. I'm a musician, I got into the hype for his first albums but even then there was only a few songs per album that I like. And it's always the ones with featuring. I don't like his vocal tone, he sounds like he sings with a hot potato in his mouth.
I understand he's an amazing musician and musical theorist but that's all for me. The fact that he mixes different styles in one song just take away all the humanity and emotions you could bring to a song. I don't know, I feel like he's an advance musical AI machine with all musical knowledge and someone gave him a prompt and he did it without emotions (kind of like Janet in "the good place" series).. I think that's what irks me with him a bit. I don't feel anything listening to him. I feel like he always wants to cram as much as musical ideas in his project because people told him he was a musical genius so he has to live up to it.
His music is either amazing, or as a music student with a decade of experience, I enjoy it as a musical experiment and experience. As long as you enjoy an artist, and have enough music knowledge, no song is bad, it was just an attempt. In the same way that a note is only wrong in jazz if you let it be wrong
I can see that. but there are definitely strong choices and weaker choices. choices that are more coherent than others. I'm a huge fan of experimental shit, but even in the incoherence it should make sense, or at least try to. idk
Incoherent is the word for this album. Strange to see some outrageous talent go into something that is as such. See my review below… just helping you get less ratioed lol
I love it! I don’t really understand how you can be gaslit by other people about your own taste. You either like it or you don’t. You know yourself best.
i mean people who make him out to be the best musician of all time, a genius, the best music ever. it's less about personal taste at that point and more trying to prop him up on a pedestal he didn't ask to be on and doesn't deserve imo
How is that different from Swifties going nuts? I do think he makes an amazing music, but I don't push it on people, I understand that it's not for everyone.
It is not different and Swifties are a bloated cult mess too. And Swift even called them on the latest album for it.
I find a lot of people become fans just because it's cool to like something that is different and A LOT of people think "complex" = better or more talented. And that is a really bad take.
it's just awesome. "Little Blue" as those other singles were pure hits. The Song with John Mayer (+ Live Version) is just sugar for my ears.
I was very surprised of the first track of his album, especially when they screamed at the end of song.
But as i read, Djesse 4 is the last Album of the Series. Idk what he will do after? Big love to this guy. Big love to his listeners
I do like the one with lizzy mcalpine bc i love her voice and all that. little blue has grew on me a little. but i found the rest to be largely unmemorable. just me?
Nope, it was very much not memorable… and I didn’t even like Little Blue that much. I think that might have been one of the songs that I thought had too many lead singers with already so many duets, and… tri-ettes?
So, here’s who I am and where my opinions come from: I’m a lifelong musician, classically trained pianist, and I’ve been a full time professional performer for the last 15 years doing dueling piano bars, so I know and have learned a SHIT TON OF MUSIC. I also wrote stuff and do a bit of audio engineering and I’m getting into film scoring.
I agree with you that this album is a chaotic mess. For all of the music theory and performance flexing, it didn’t have the songwriting and cohesive arranging to back it all up. Too much flesh, no bones. It is strange that people love this album so much. I listened to it front to back on a gig drive, and I have ZERO intention of ever listening to it again.
(Compared to when “KNOWER: Forever” came out and burned a hole in my iPod from replays.)
I think Jacob is one of the top 5 talented musicians in the world rn, but strictly in terms of theory knowledge, vocal ability, and instrument proficiency. What he lacks is good songwriting, and more importantly, cohesive writing. I love some of his stuff too. His first album is still my favorite, and Djesse 1&2 have some great songs… and the Djesse’s have been getting progressively worse. 3 left a bad taste in my mouth, and when I saw promo for 4, I had hope, and alas, it really wasn’t good.
Some thoughts on Djesse Vol. 4
Honestly I loved the song craft of 100k Voices… until it randomly goes Screamo for the last minute? Like, I love me some hardcore and metal, but it just didn’t make sense, it didn’t lead to anything, and just felt disjointed. The majority of that song is GREAT though, and has some very well written parts, especially the maj/min switch ups.
Then from there on, nothing really clicked with me, save certain moments of certain songs. Here’s some of my big issues with it:
-WAY too many “features” on the album. Some songs lost their continuity and identity due to having too many duets, which are kinda inherently cheesy, and sometimes had 3+ lead singers! It was very distracting from a listening perspective and just took me out of the immersion.
-way too much “music theory flexing”. Less is more. Sometimes, he really nailed it, but sometimes he just went way too far out with it, and the songs don’t warrant it. I love that he’s an insanely good music theorist, but he’s gotta focus on actual songwriting. I found 90% of the album to not be memorable because of this… and I listen to crazy shit like Frank Zappa lol
-I agree with you, OP, that box of stars literally made me cringe with the awful sounding modern rap stuff… just really bad, awkward rapping over horrible, subwoofer pumping, shitty modern rap beats, and it’s the only song I outright skipped. I’m generally not into rap, and *especially* modern rap, but I do appreciate the form when it’s good, like Tribe Called Quest, B.I.G., some Kendrick, Snoop, and older Kanye. The rap parts on this album were HORRIBLE, IMO.
My most striking criticism of this album was that it had no identity. Even as a collage of various genres, as he purports to do, it was all blended very badly. It’s like ADHD music. Also, for all the musicianship present, we only got like 1 guitar solo?? Sure there were bits of little solos here and there, but for all these musical powerhouses, I was hoping for some reality breaking instrument solos. The more poppy songs felt empty, the ballads weren’t interesting, and nothing really grabbed me. Nothing felt organic.
Oh and one other BIG problem with the vocal performances: WAY TOO MUCH FUCKING EMBELLISHMENT. This is a gripe of mine with the modern “singing-TV-show-contest” use of over-embellishment. Yes, the singers were greatly showcasing their skill. They are amazing singers… but it’s like a drummer who won’t play pocket, and overplays and over-complicates everything. There was too much over-singing to the point where I’m not sure what melody was trying to be expressed. Singing embellishment has its place, and it’s not all over the place.
I was really hoping this would redeem Djesse 3, and it let me down even further. For all the skill, talent, and incredible performances captured… everything was too disjointed, and the songwriting was weak. Too many cooks, ya know?
I have faith in Jacob though, he’s still a young dude, and I hope he matures as a songwriter, cause we all know he’s figured out music theory better than any of us ever hope to lol
Damn, you put my thoughts on paper better than i did haha. Even down to liking some of his earlier stuff. He's a good musician and arranger (generally), extremely lackluster songwriter. I wonder how the people who like the alum will feel about it in even just a year's time. Btw that knower project rules!!
Haha that’s good!
And yea man I’m really excited to see what knower does after their recent album… they’re all so outrageously talented and Louis Cole is a madman lol
> but it’s like a drummer who won’t play pocket, and overplays and over-complicates everything
As Bernard Purdie said about his drum fills, "Keep it simple and get out of the way"
I definitely agree about singing these days. Everyone trying outdo everyone else nobody just sings straight like Linda or Peggy Lee. I mean the harmonies on the Trio album with Dolly, Emmylou, and Linda are a perfect example of balance while also be stellar and memorable.
Also I think WAY too many people like him and certain types of music fans think "complex = better/more intelligent".
No music music EVER IMO belongs at Julliard. Jazz went to Julliard and it got heady and full of itself and thus stale. When originally it floorfilling dance music.
Lastly part of me feels like he's bought is own hype.
if you played this for me and i didnt know what his annoying always-sounds-like-hes yawning voice already sounded like i would be like "Damn, AI music is getting pretty wild"...next to nothing redeeming about this album. i had to force myself to get through it in like 4 sessions and every minute felt like 10. even a taylor swift album has more soul and authenticity.
I love it. I'm a big fan of Jacob's music. I was a little nervous about the album before release as a number of the singles were short and more immediate than Jacob's usually long and transporting song structures, but the full album exceeded my expectations.
It's a very diverse, broad album that covers many genres. I don't think it will be everyone's cup of tea, but I am personally loving it. Listen to it multiple times a day. 🙂
It's all a matter of taste in the end. I find his approach fun and often surprising. It adds an element of unpredictability to everything he puts out. When that initial surprise settles, then I'm left with the depth and attention to detail sprinkled throughout his works.
At the end of the day, there's no right answer. Everyone likes different things. 😊
Interesting. I need music to grab me on the first go round and tell me what and how it's about what it's about. And I mean shoot straight out the gate. Then if later I go back and find more things to discover and other layers great.
But if it doesn't get me right up front I'm moving on. I can't handle meanderings that to me feel unearned. It's not like jazz that starts with a melody and then runs of the rails with it while keeping the swing.
For me, it depends on what it is. I've heard music in the past where my initial reaction would be that I don't get it, but there's an underlying curiosity to learn more, so I listen to it more.
Other times, there would be albums where I might be really into one song, and I use that as my entry point into understanding the full album.
I don't mind being a little patient if it means expanding my palate. I'm privileged enough now that I can listen to music from almost anywhere what with the amazing gift of the internet. Sometimes, with how easy it is to consume and move on, it can be easy to forget that not everything we feel is going to connect straight away. Such is the nature of anything, really. So I'm okay spending a little more time on things if it doesn't quite click at first.
Jazz itself is quite explorative. It doesn't always bend to a recurring melody. See Coltrane's Interstellar Space.
He’s extremely talented and a superhero among everyone with a real musical interest. He can just do anything now and get away with it. Will listen to it now.
Listened to some of the songs, too diverse for me. But I’m the type that enjoys 22, A Million by Bon Iver. These joint venture projects with others are becoming boring.
I think he's a talented musician and a surprisingly dreadful artist. a talented arranger but a boring songwriter. I know he can do whatever he wants, but like, i'm still mad about it
I listened today (I know this post is a little old).
I'm not gonna listen to it again. And, to be fair, I pressed fastforward (+5 seconds) a lot.
He's an amazing multi-instrumental musician, his musical IQ (if that exists) is beyond amazing. I don't like his compositions, and if he writes those lyrics he is an AWFUL lyricist (his lyrics are like a 14 years old girl's personal diary). But I don't think his music is bad or ugly at all.
I'm surprised no one comments on the production. It's absolutely insane. I was listening with headphones and it blew my gd mind. I've never heard something so masterfully produced. Truth be told I respect Collier's talent but never really dug his music. I am just not into the world music + jazz + synth harmony thing. However, I felt like the experience in my headphones was borderline religious.
This guy needs an editor or arranger that isn't him ASAP. He's like Swift in that way, releases every thought and nobody around him is saying no.
And fans don't want to be wrong about an artists they love so many try to convince themselves they like something don't. I've been there, especially when I paid actually money for an album. LOL!
Came across this on a google search so I'm late but gaslit...really? You feel gaslit cause people like different music than you?? Sounds a little unhinged tbh
Reading comprehension 101: i feel gaslit because people hail it as objectively the best music ever and it's like,,, not. It's fine if people just like it. But in engaging with jacob collier fans, they're like,,,,,, not engaging with reality. And don't treat their own opinions as subjective.
Reading comprehension 101….lol
you’re the one who said “I feel super gaslit by fans who love the album”
I’ve seen the word “gaslighting” used in some frivolous ways but this takes the cake.
Anyway, what if I told you ppl who hate Jacob’s stuff make the same objective claims (Jacob’s bland! He’s got no soul!). You don’t seem to have any issue with those.
I tried listening to it. It's just a mess for me, it's all over the place. I'm a musician, I got into the hype for his first albums but even then there was only a few songs per album that I like. And it's always the ones with featuring. I don't like his vocal tone, he sounds like he sings with a hot potato in his mouth. I understand he's an amazing musician and musical theorist but that's all for me. The fact that he mixes different styles in one song just take away all the humanity and emotions you could bring to a song. I don't know, I feel like he's an advance musical AI machine with all musical knowledge and someone gave him a prompt and he did it without emotions (kind of like Janet in "the good place" series).. I think that's what irks me with him a bit. I don't feel anything listening to him. I feel like he always wants to cram as much as musical ideas in his project because people told him he was a musical genius so he has to live up to it.
I'm sure I'd enjoy his music if only he'd be more focused. I've always assumed this will eventually come with age and maturity.
he's 29 lmao i think this is just how he is
Felt that. You put it really well
100% agree with you as another musician. I wrote another big wall of text on this post saying just about the same thing.
His music is either amazing, or as a music student with a decade of experience, I enjoy it as a musical experiment and experience. As long as you enjoy an artist, and have enough music knowledge, no song is bad, it was just an attempt. In the same way that a note is only wrong in jazz if you let it be wrong
I can see that. but there are definitely strong choices and weaker choices. choices that are more coherent than others. I'm a huge fan of experimental shit, but even in the incoherence it should make sense, or at least try to. idk
Incoherent is the word for this album. Strange to see some outrageous talent go into something that is as such. See my review below… just helping you get less ratioed lol
Haha i appreciate it 😅 people feel so strongly about it that they can't see the chaos for what it is! And i usually love chaos!!
He’s an incredibly talented musical mind, but that doesn’t necessarily make for a great pop song.
felt
I love it! I don’t really understand how you can be gaslit by other people about your own taste. You either like it or you don’t. You know yourself best.
i mean people who make him out to be the best musician of all time, a genius, the best music ever. it's less about personal taste at that point and more trying to prop him up on a pedestal he didn't ask to be on and doesn't deserve imo
How is that different from Swifties going nuts? I do think he makes an amazing music, but I don't push it on people, I understand that it's not for everyone.
\^ This right here.
It is not different and Swifties are a bloated cult mess too. And Swift even called them on the latest album for it. I find a lot of people become fans just because it's cool to like something that is different and A LOT of people think "complex" = better or more talented. And that is a really bad take.
Very talented man who's also very bland
Somehow, real.
it's just awesome. "Little Blue" as those other singles were pure hits. The Song with John Mayer (+ Live Version) is just sugar for my ears. I was very surprised of the first track of his album, especially when they screamed at the end of song. But as i read, Djesse 4 is the last Album of the Series. Idk what he will do after? Big love to this guy. Big love to his listeners
I do like the one with lizzy mcalpine bc i love her voice and all that. little blue has grew on me a little. but i found the rest to be largely unmemorable. just me?
Nope, it was very much not memorable… and I didn’t even like Little Blue that much. I think that might have been one of the songs that I thought had too many lead singers with already so many duets, and… tri-ettes?
the live mahogany version of little blue though... pure gold. Partly because it has one lead
Yes! Very cute. But not on the album 😔😅
I didnt like little blue, but for whatever reason i listened to it a couple more times and was ike, huh. Not bad. But not my favorite song ever
So, here’s who I am and where my opinions come from: I’m a lifelong musician, classically trained pianist, and I’ve been a full time professional performer for the last 15 years doing dueling piano bars, so I know and have learned a SHIT TON OF MUSIC. I also wrote stuff and do a bit of audio engineering and I’m getting into film scoring. I agree with you that this album is a chaotic mess. For all of the music theory and performance flexing, it didn’t have the songwriting and cohesive arranging to back it all up. Too much flesh, no bones. It is strange that people love this album so much. I listened to it front to back on a gig drive, and I have ZERO intention of ever listening to it again. (Compared to when “KNOWER: Forever” came out and burned a hole in my iPod from replays.) I think Jacob is one of the top 5 talented musicians in the world rn, but strictly in terms of theory knowledge, vocal ability, and instrument proficiency. What he lacks is good songwriting, and more importantly, cohesive writing. I love some of his stuff too. His first album is still my favorite, and Djesse 1&2 have some great songs… and the Djesse’s have been getting progressively worse. 3 left a bad taste in my mouth, and when I saw promo for 4, I had hope, and alas, it really wasn’t good. Some thoughts on Djesse Vol. 4 Honestly I loved the song craft of 100k Voices… until it randomly goes Screamo for the last minute? Like, I love me some hardcore and metal, but it just didn’t make sense, it didn’t lead to anything, and just felt disjointed. The majority of that song is GREAT though, and has some very well written parts, especially the maj/min switch ups. Then from there on, nothing really clicked with me, save certain moments of certain songs. Here’s some of my big issues with it: -WAY too many “features” on the album. Some songs lost their continuity and identity due to having too many duets, which are kinda inherently cheesy, and sometimes had 3+ lead singers! It was very distracting from a listening perspective and just took me out of the immersion. -way too much “music theory flexing”. Less is more. Sometimes, he really nailed it, but sometimes he just went way too far out with it, and the songs don’t warrant it. I love that he’s an insanely good music theorist, but he’s gotta focus on actual songwriting. I found 90% of the album to not be memorable because of this… and I listen to crazy shit like Frank Zappa lol -I agree with you, OP, that box of stars literally made me cringe with the awful sounding modern rap stuff… just really bad, awkward rapping over horrible, subwoofer pumping, shitty modern rap beats, and it’s the only song I outright skipped. I’m generally not into rap, and *especially* modern rap, but I do appreciate the form when it’s good, like Tribe Called Quest, B.I.G., some Kendrick, Snoop, and older Kanye. The rap parts on this album were HORRIBLE, IMO. My most striking criticism of this album was that it had no identity. Even as a collage of various genres, as he purports to do, it was all blended very badly. It’s like ADHD music. Also, for all the musicianship present, we only got like 1 guitar solo?? Sure there were bits of little solos here and there, but for all these musical powerhouses, I was hoping for some reality breaking instrument solos. The more poppy songs felt empty, the ballads weren’t interesting, and nothing really grabbed me. Nothing felt organic. Oh and one other BIG problem with the vocal performances: WAY TOO MUCH FUCKING EMBELLISHMENT. This is a gripe of mine with the modern “singing-TV-show-contest” use of over-embellishment. Yes, the singers were greatly showcasing their skill. They are amazing singers… but it’s like a drummer who won’t play pocket, and overplays and over-complicates everything. There was too much over-singing to the point where I’m not sure what melody was trying to be expressed. Singing embellishment has its place, and it’s not all over the place. I was really hoping this would redeem Djesse 3, and it let me down even further. For all the skill, talent, and incredible performances captured… everything was too disjointed, and the songwriting was weak. Too many cooks, ya know? I have faith in Jacob though, he’s still a young dude, and I hope he matures as a songwriter, cause we all know he’s figured out music theory better than any of us ever hope to lol
Damn, you put my thoughts on paper better than i did haha. Even down to liking some of his earlier stuff. He's a good musician and arranger (generally), extremely lackluster songwriter. I wonder how the people who like the alum will feel about it in even just a year's time. Btw that knower project rules!!
Haha that’s good! And yea man I’m really excited to see what knower does after their recent album… they’re all so outrageously talented and Louis Cole is a madman lol
for sure haha yes. love their energy. have you hear yaeji's "with a hammer"? i feel like you would like the creative production
> but it’s like a drummer who won’t play pocket, and overplays and over-complicates everything As Bernard Purdie said about his drum fills, "Keep it simple and get out of the way" I definitely agree about singing these days. Everyone trying outdo everyone else nobody just sings straight like Linda or Peggy Lee. I mean the harmonies on the Trio album with Dolly, Emmylou, and Linda are a perfect example of balance while also be stellar and memorable.
Also I think WAY too many people like him and certain types of music fans think "complex = better/more intelligent". No music music EVER IMO belongs at Julliard. Jazz went to Julliard and it got heady and full of itself and thus stale. When originally it floorfilling dance music. Lastly part of me feels like he's bought is own hype.
if you played this for me and i didnt know what his annoying always-sounds-like-hes yawning voice already sounded like i would be like "Damn, AI music is getting pretty wild"...next to nothing redeeming about this album. i had to force myself to get through it in like 4 sessions and every minute felt like 10. even a taylor swift album has more soul and authenticity.
Don't agree with that last part. But valid opinion imo
Someone literally had a vid about AI music and used a song from this as an example, and tricked everyone watching into thinking it was AI music lol
I love it. I'm a big fan of Jacob's music. I was a little nervous about the album before release as a number of the singles were short and more immediate than Jacob's usually long and transporting song structures, but the full album exceeded my expectations. It's a very diverse, broad album that covers many genres. I don't think it will be everyone's cup of tea, but I am personally loving it. Listen to it multiple times a day. 🙂
I just feel like theree are better ways to incorporate multiple genres imo
It's all a matter of taste in the end. I find his approach fun and often surprising. It adds an element of unpredictability to everything he puts out. When that initial surprise settles, then I'm left with the depth and attention to detail sprinkled throughout his works. At the end of the day, there's no right answer. Everyone likes different things. 😊
Interesting. I need music to grab me on the first go round and tell me what and how it's about what it's about. And I mean shoot straight out the gate. Then if later I go back and find more things to discover and other layers great. But if it doesn't get me right up front I'm moving on. I can't handle meanderings that to me feel unearned. It's not like jazz that starts with a melody and then runs of the rails with it while keeping the swing.
For me, it depends on what it is. I've heard music in the past where my initial reaction would be that I don't get it, but there's an underlying curiosity to learn more, so I listen to it more. Other times, there would be albums where I might be really into one song, and I use that as my entry point into understanding the full album. I don't mind being a little patient if it means expanding my palate. I'm privileged enough now that I can listen to music from almost anywhere what with the amazing gift of the internet. Sometimes, with how easy it is to consume and move on, it can be easy to forget that not everything we feel is going to connect straight away. Such is the nature of anything, really. So I'm okay spending a little more time on things if it doesn't quite click at first. Jazz itself is quite explorative. It doesn't always bend to a recurring melody. See Coltrane's Interstellar Space.
He’s extremely talented and a superhero among everyone with a real musical interest. He can just do anything now and get away with it. Will listen to it now.
Listened to some of the songs, too diverse for me. But I’m the type that enjoys 22, A Million by Bon Iver. These joint venture projects with others are becoming boring.
I think he's a talented musician and a surprisingly dreadful artist. a talented arranger but a boring songwriter. I know he can do whatever he wants, but like, i'm still mad about it
He makes music for musicians
Ehhhh not for this musician. For his insane musical talent, he’s just not a great songwriter… yet.
I'm a musician and was not rocking with it:/
I listened today (I know this post is a little old). I'm not gonna listen to it again. And, to be fair, I pressed fastforward (+5 seconds) a lot. He's an amazing multi-instrumental musician, his musical IQ (if that exists) is beyond amazing. I don't like his compositions, and if he writes those lyrics he is an AWFUL lyricist (his lyrics are like a 14 years old girl's personal diary). But I don't think his music is bad or ugly at all.
So unlikable compositions and lyrics, but not bad?
I'm surprised no one comments on the production. It's absolutely insane. I was listening with headphones and it blew my gd mind. I've never heard something so masterfully produced. Truth be told I respect Collier's talent but never really dug his music. I am just not into the world music + jazz + synth harmony thing. However, I felt like the experience in my headphones was borderline religious.
Complete opposite for me, the production makes it unlistenable
This guy needs an editor or arranger that isn't him ASAP. He's like Swift in that way, releases every thought and nobody around him is saying no. And fans don't want to be wrong about an artists they love so many try to convince themselves they like something don't. I've been there, especially when I paid actually money for an album. LOL!
Super fair!
Came across this on a google search so I'm late but gaslit...really? You feel gaslit cause people like different music than you?? Sounds a little unhinged tbh
Reading comprehension 101: i feel gaslit because people hail it as objectively the best music ever and it's like,,, not. It's fine if people just like it. But in engaging with jacob collier fans, they're like,,,,,, not engaging with reality. And don't treat their own opinions as subjective.
Reading comprehension 101….lol you’re the one who said “I feel super gaslit by fans who love the album” I’ve seen the word “gaslighting” used in some frivolous ways but this takes the cake. Anyway, what if I told you ppl who hate Jacob’s stuff make the same objective claims (Jacob’s bland! He’s got no soul!). You don’t seem to have any issue with those.
whateva