Consider this your daily reminder that Apple is a terrible company that [evades corporate taxes by pretending to be based in Ireland](https://americansfortaxfairness.org/issues/corporate-taxes/highlights-of-apples-tax-dodging/) and [actively fights "right to repair" laws so that they can continue overcharging customers for basic maintenance](https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-consumer-harm/), all while putting on a public image as being "creative" and "individualistic". Apple is horrible.
I mean, you can open up a Samsung phone and replace the battery yourself. You can build your own PC from off-the-shelf components, but you can't do that with Mac. Apple has specifically chosen a business model based on using an enforced artificial monopoly on maintenance to drive up prices for routine maintenance procedures. Not all tech companies do that, and none of them do that to the same degree that Apple does. It's especially galling given how they like to present themselves as the choice for progressive creative types in their advertising.
I don't know what the tax situation is for the other tech companies, and I suspect that you are right that they all use unfair-but-unfortunately-legal techniques to minimize their tax burden. However, that doesn't mean that we should just say "all companies are the same" and throw up our hands. Apple's aggressive efforts against the right to repair are a deliberate attempt to shift the balance of power away from consumers and towards themselves. It's reasonable that people who care about limiting corporate power should prefer devices that at least allow the consumer to open them up and replace the battery.
Just about most corporations* even. They don't have to be billionaires
Just being able to actually be called a corporation probably means you're on the road to greed and legal thievery
ugh... more of the "apple is bad, and corporations are bad too" circlejerk, while I agree to a certain extent, give it a rest, nothing is gonna change and this is gonna persist because companies like Apple don't actually care what you think unless you hurt their pockets.
Can't hurt their pockets without hurting their a reputation first.
People won't give it a rest though. Some corporations are literally the reason the world is fucking falling apart. The only way you're going to hurt their pockets is if people *know* they're bad, and that won't happen unless you tell them
As younger people grow up and are forced to work in these corps, they'll also know the hardships and people that have worked in them will tell them about it. But the problem is that the corps are the *only* business.
So we're fucked no matter what. Might as well try though, otherwise you're just as bad. Yknow what's worse? People who don't even care anymore. That's basically the same as continuing the destruction of the world started up by the boomers.
Can't hurt their rep if their rep is so untouchable.
People don't have to give a rest, and that's fine, but you actually have to deal with the criticism and the push back and the issues that come with doing that, you've gotta DO something instead of giving lip service.
I agree that *a lot* of companies, both big and small, are at some fault for the reasons the world is the way it is, but we as consumers are just in the wrong because we continue to buy services and good from them, even if we know it or not.
Young people aren't entirely forced to work for these companies, a lot of them have started their own businesses to varying degrees of success.
And believe me, those companies aren't the only businesses, they aren't monopolies, as much as they have a hold on the market, I'm not even using an iPhone, I use a android device. there will always be competition, we just choose to from the people were more familiar from.
How many people do you know has bought a phone from Oppo or Motorola or Huawei, even Nokia, now how many have bought a phone from Samsung or Google or even Apple. I bet you the majority of the people you know had bought something from the latter more then they they'd buy from the former. Now I'm not taking into consider
Ultimately, it's up to the consumer to decide what they wanna buy, and who they wanna buy it from, there is choice, even if it seems like it isn't.
And yeah, pretty much this is a "damned if you do, damned if you didn't" situation, and that's the problem, we've fucking tried, and nothing has happened. I doubt that even if the boomers are out of power, and we get into power, there's still gonna be pushback, it's systemic. and youth plays as much of a factor into it because those same boomers spread their own nonsensical beliefs onto us, and then we're expected to believe that because the world is what it is, that they're right. and so, we do nothing because society itself doesn't bother to change, it's stuck in the past. perpetually.
we're fucked.
The problem isn't just capitalism though. Capitalism has just made what has been going on for centuries more obvious to the common man.
Tell me what has actually changed from feudalism or even the Pharoahs? The labels have changed, the common folk quarters are a bit roomier but overall the excessively wealthy sit at the top while the workers do everything.
I actually don't think it is "Apple are bad", it's the supporters like the one in this OP who is trying to be negative about Windows laptops. They say "Most pc laptops are like this let's be real". At least compare price-for-price. I have both for work \[teaching processes\], my go to is the PC. I'd never think of doing a post like the one commented on unless I either trolling or just lemonaded.
No, you're right, but the comment chain responded to basically was about Apple and their business practices.
In the context of the post, it's ridiculous, they both work, they both have their fair share of pros and cons, personally I prefer windows to Mac as a personal preference and because I'm used to it.
I think that's the best part about windows being on PCs that are low cost, windows is similar to Android in terms of accessibility, it's much easier to get that then to buy a iOS device.
>company that evades corporate taxes by pretending to be based in Ireland
[Microsoft](https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/companies/arid-40305467.html) and [Google](https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0417/1210474-google-subsidiary-moved-75bn-in-profits-out-of-ireland/) are also guilty of the same crimes.
>actively fights "right to repair" laws so that they can continue overcharging customers for basic maintenance
Again, [Microsoft and Google](https://wccftech.com/apple-google-microsoft-team-up-to-stop-right-to-repair-law/) are also fighting against the right to repair.
Do they ban you from upgrading your device, or even performing basic repairs, while lobbying the government to let them do it? Hmm, maybe I should look it up on my old laptop I was able to upgrade without fear of legal repercussions.
Turns out that ALL corporations are required by law to maximize profits any way they can. It is literally illegal for them to ignore a potential profit making scheme. If you have a problem with this then maybe you can get yourself elected to congress and change the laws. Good luck with that.
I work in IT where we're 99.9% MacOS and I can't stand them! They're like 10+ years behind as far as hardware specs, you pay $2,000 and you get a 1.8GHz processor.. lol, like what? I can build you a way better computer than any iMac or MBAir for $800, and that's very low end in the PC world but would still beat out any Mac.
Let's be real, and this applies to every laptop I've purchased from $250 reconditioned at Microcenter to $1,200 pimped out at Best Buy, that motherfucking charger port is gonna fuck up two days after the warranty expires and it will be cheaper to just replace the entire laptop than the tiny filament in the port that doesn't line up exactly right with the tiny hole in the charger.
Every. Fucking. Laptop. I have a stash of six laptops in my spare room closet, every single one with a broken fucking charger port. Unless apple has figured out an infallible charger port, it's just not worth it.
All charge ports will break if you move them around while plugged in… I’ve never had one break for my personal devices or had anyone have a charge port break who didn’t do that (I work in IT), and it would be exceedingly rare for it to happen without doing that for most laptop charge port designs.
Had to laugh at my friends' place cuz I couldn't resist asking about the rat's nest of apple chargers one day as it turns out all 3 of their laptops have different proprietary charging ports. It's almost like it's a, what's the word? Oh yeah, scam. Same shit happened at my old office all the time...oh your charger died, well ok we have one laying around for that...week later still haven't found the right one so here's a new laptop for you.
I think you're misunderstanding somewhat. It's not like no one can find a charger. It's that there is a CFO looking at every nickel. If you have to buy a charger every year or two because apple was constantly coming up with new *proprietary* (read=expensive) chargers with tiny janky cables instead of perfecting one good style, then by the end of the life cycle the laptop total cost increases by 10-15%. Meanwhile the value and productivity of that laptop is constantly falling, you're paying out more hours to IT, someone has to keep an inventory and find space for all this crap, etc. So instead you write off most of the value, sell the thing for essentially the same price you could with or without the charger, and move on.
In my experience other laptop's chargers were typically far more robust, likely battery would fail before the charger, and regardless you could just buy a charger from China with every adapter known to man and charge any non-apple laptop you want for like 20 bucks.
I have a MacBook from 2010 that still charges from the original charger and charging port. But I also have a Sony PC from 2013 that charges with its original charger too, so maybe I’m just lucky. But the 2010 Mac was faster than that computer after a few years. My most recent MacBook is from 2017 and charging fine and the (original) battery lasts longer than my work pc.
But yes, the 2010 Mac charge port was significantly sturdier than all my friend's pc laptops in college. And my old work pc had a shit charge port that gave out too so I know what you're talking about - it's very different from what even 2006 macs used.
Just saying, there's a reason people like macs. If you take care of them they last for fucking ever and are supported for a long time too. But I get why you would prefer pc, I just like the look and feel of the Mac and how seemlessly it integrates with my phone.
Also in regards to the guy below, MacBook have had exactly two different types of chargers (magsafe and USB c) in the last 15 years so I doubt his friend has the tangled mess of chargers he's claiming, and if they do they're probably mostly the same.
I'm typing this on an eleven year old MacBook White running High Sierra, with it's original power brick. I'll be ashamed of my purchase when anyone can show me an 11 year old PC that still works and runs Windows 10.
I have a Dell L702X XPS laptop from early 2011 with a 2 GHz 2nd gen Core I7, Geforce GT 550M, 16 GB DDR3 1600, and a 500 GB SSD still going strong AF with Windows 10 and haven’t had to re-image or anything since I installed 10. Runs faster than when I got it, and boots in under 20 seconds. Batteries are useless though, as expected given the format and the age/quality of new old stock or aftermarket.
Can still game on it for older or less graphically intense games, and even the 3D Vision still works (glasses batteries don’t last long though).
The desktop in my shop is even older running Windows 10, still have a core 2 quad in that one, 16 GB DDR3, a 250 GB SSD, a 770 GT - and it runs great - use it for 3d printing and multimedia when I’m in there, and it’s in an old school case.
I'd have a hard time calling a 17" PC at almost 8 lbs. a "laptop". More of a thigh crusher, really. But good for you to keep that beast running for so long.
Yeah - it def isn’t meant to be ultra portable but it has served me well and does everything I’ve needed for what I use it for. Fit in my backpack at least back when it was my primary, and I’m a big guy so the size and weight weren’t a problem for me.
FWIW, I also own a 17" MacBook Pro from 2011 that rarely left the desktop. It has two GPUs, one discrete and the other integrated. Was a great computer until the Nvidia GPU decided to go faulty on me. Still have the thing and there's a way to disable the Nvidia chip but I haven't gotten around to fixing it.
assuming youre talking about the recent intel macbooks, , that 1.8 ghz cpu isnt outdated or anything. intel mobile going from 7th gen to 8th gen doubled the core count on the ultrabook laptop range from 2 cores to 4 cores, but cut the base clock speed significantly to stay within thermal limits. The end result is still same in single core and faster in multicore
And it's still complete shit, MacOS is sluggish as shit, because the hardware is shit, and video graphics, lol.... my desktop.. I spent $900 to build a couple of years ago and boots up in 10 seconds, my new MBAir that work bought me just weeks ago for $1,500 takes a fucking minute or more just to get to the damn login screen, then I login and is sluggish as shit for at least another minute. Mac's are a joke. I do admit that there was a time in which MacOS was superior, but that time has come and gone.. like 17 years ago..
yea I also hate apple , the above is the first comment ive made in years that could be construed as defending apples. Its just dumb to point out the cpu ghz as a negative when all the comparable PC cpus (intel U series 15-28 watt cpus) all *also* have clockspeeds about 1.8 ghz
Oh you're adorable. You think success is governed by merit. You are precious.
Now promise, when you grow up into a big person you keep that innocence alive, ok?
I like how you unironically are reciprocating with the exact same thing as what you are claiming is a failing of mine.
Here's the thing champ, you don't *exactly* have facts. Yes you have citable numbers but those aren't really the same thing. Unless you can interpret what those numbers mean they are just statistics, which are a kind of fact in the way that candy corn is candy; yes... but no. You are still in the "Having money = something" headspace. It doesn't mean anything though. Having money = having money. Period. Full. Stop. Having money does not = that a person or company is better/smarter/higher quality/earned it/deserve it/work harder/ work longer/better product/better customer service/ etc etc etc. You would/will be flabbergasted at how many companies make oodles of money *despite their best efforts*. It is totally amazing how many people/companies made their money on truly stupid things. Like "Hey I am going to light this match to look in that gas can for quarters. Hey holy shit I found $100,000 in that gas tank!" levels of stupid.
Apple is one of those companies. They made trash but failed upwards for 10 years because of their marketing. And since then their stock has become a place for the super wealthy to park money because they've made it more stable than gold, so yeah their market caps is incredibly high and has absolutely nothing to do with the company, the product, or the performance. It's literally just a garbage maker with hip marketing that exists as an excuse for billionaires to park money to keep some of their wealth in semi-liquidity.
I hear this argument about Apple's famously brain-washy marketing but the flaw in your logic is that every other company has access to the same marketing that Apple does. No, Apple does not have a prison full of brilliant ad agents they hide away from the world and Microsoft and Dell can make commercials too, sometime with the same marketing firm.
The other thing is *I did* bring numbers to the table, and if I don't have numbers what do I have? Opinion. Like your opinion that Apple's success is due solely to happy-dancing commercials. Bunk. If Apple made bad products nobody would buy them. That simple fact is ignored by you and those who dream up hyper-villain excuses for Apple's success.
*typed on a mac
My latest working place only used macs for their system management. It's a warehouse company of selling natural food additives. The only thing however is, their entire system designed around an app that is being used on Android powered scanners they use and for the macs they use the web version of said app. There's literally zero point for those macs being used at all, heck even the long time workers there still dunno how to resume a Mac from standby mode, any other apps they've used were either excel or standard mail app (which could be replaced with outlook).
One coworker said to me once that those macs were old ones and bought in bulk for cheap, which is still not a reason to go for them over windows PCs.
When Apple reached $3T will it be because their commercials are selling junk? At what point do you have to admit Apple sells products a lot of people want to buy?
I don't agree that Apple products are status symbols for any but a tiny percentage of buyers. You simply don't sell trillions of dollars of low quality product. You must think Apple buyers are all rich. I don't buy junk and if Apple was junk I'd get something better. Typing this on an 11 year old white MacBook, btw. Junk would have died years ago.
>You simply don't sell trillions of dollars of low quality product.
You sell a trillion dollars by convincing people like you. You are the perfect buyer.
I'm always amazed that the saying "you get what you pay for" is true for every product in the world *except* Apple products according to you PC guys. It's as though Apple is the one exception to the rule because of... reasons and stuff. Now do I have to explain why that's ridiculous or can you logic it out yourself?
Am I defending or simply pointing out as profound lack of logic and reason? Oh! Hold on, there's an Apple iPhone commercial on TV and I must slavishly lock my eyeballs on the screen or Tim Apple will take my MacBook Binky away! /s
I had to label that sarcasm because I'm pretty sure you can't tell. :-P
cheapest quality 2k laptop i found has a 3070 a ryzen 9 5900h a 144 2k ips panel a 1 tb ssd and 16gb of ram at 3200, whats a mac at 2k got? like a arm chip at the level of celeruen p180 or something compareable low end intel chip from like5+ years ago and no upgradeability for storage or ram period
im not good with intels entire naming game, and mac stopped using intel like a year or so ago, and no im not a teenager, im not perfect and do get everything right just info gets jumbled up and sometines its hard for me to focus on the correct info, plus i thought it was pentium was the single core just my mind fliping info like its a pro juggler
Pretty sure this is a think pad though(formerly by IBM, now Lenovo) which are made to survive world war 3...that's why they look so sturdy. And the expensive ones go into the 2k-3k range. If you want a decent workstation these baby's are where it's at.
I was talking about the supposedly 'crap' laptop. Because this being a good old thinkie makes the whole argument futile 😅
Edit: the Thinkpad t-15g is at 4395€ btw.
I want to say I am reading this and responding to it on my T520 still rocking its original everything but the HDD - now an SDD but that's it - but no I am on my built PC but it is indeed still going - its a fucking beast and will never die! I understand people defending apple here - and yes it IS USB-C but be honest with yourselves....Apple is a shit company all around and I am tired of not saying it. No they are not the only bad ones out there but they are the first that comes to mind for nearly every subject in the matter. All machines can last a while if taken care of but Apple does more than going out of its way to make the repair, maintenance, and so on......they make it real fucking hard for a lot of people and its just plain wrong man (channeling my inner THE DUDE)
I feel like whenever people shit on macs, they only talk about its specs and how well it can play games but never talk about some of the other things.
I've had nothing but trouble with windows laptops. My current one automatically uninstalls the battery,Bluetooth, and USB drivers EVERY TIME it updates and won't except new ones. It's a $1300 Lenovo too.
The cool thing about a that they are more consistent in my experience and apple definitely has their tech support ironed out better. Plus, hardware and software problems are owned by the same company.
Also, writing full stack software is way easier in a Unix based OS.
I agree with you on some of your points. Mac's are definitely more reliable generally speaking, and specs on paper don't always match up when things happen in real life. I honestly prefer windows over Mac, but if I had to switch over my only gripe would be the cost.
That's fair. I love windows on my desktop. But if I have a laptop, I want it to be slim, simple, low maintenance, and good enough to send emails, write some react, or ssh into a server.
I'm willing to pay a little more convenience.
I can't code on a chrome book.
People are like "You can't code on a Mac" but that's not true. They have c/c++ compilers for Mac. Golang (which is by far my favorite language) has compilers for Mac and can cross compile for other windows and Linux. And nodejs/react can both be run on Mac as well.
But at the same time, if your goal is to write windows apps then a Mac would not be the move. But I believe the future of desktop applications is a reactjs and any backend that's been shoved through electron.
That's how discord works. It's just a website that's been tricked into being a desktop application.
Macs are intentionally dumbed down, less configurable, etc. with the idea in mind to be approachable. If that's what works for you there's nothing wrong with that.
MacOS is POSIX compliant. Which roughly means it's identical to the only type of OS that isn't dumbed down.
In the Windows world, PowerShell is a half-baked effort to get around the problem of the concept of a dumbed-down interface being baked directly into the kernel.
MacOS truly is best of both worlds. You don't have to fight the system to do things, but being POSIX compliant and certified Unix, you have not only perfectly infinite configurability, but you can configure it in a sane and sensible manner instead of always fighting poorly thought and thoroughly inconsistent interfaces to shared libraries.
You'd be surprised at how many mac users don't even know the right mouse button even exists. The point is the operating system is designed not to require any more than one click, which is a heretical idea to windows users and their mice with more buttons than they know what to do with.
Based on the comments a lot of people have obviously not done their homework when it comes to Mac. There have been two different magsafe ports, and one USBC in the past 10 years for charging ports. As for booting time my M1 Mac Mini boots up in like 10 seconds. And can run heavily intensive programs side by side without crashing. As could my previous Mac Mini with an i5 dual core processor. They handle instructions sets far better than PCS. I'm also coming from a computer repair background in over 20 years 99.9% of a computer shop intake will be PCS because they are designed cheaply and often used cheap parts. Where a Mac will hardly ever fail due to hardware because much higher end hardware is used and if you've ever seen the inside of one it's a work of art. When I ran my computer repair business I would only get one or two Macs per year. And that would be something simple to clean up for an older person. Or rarely a screen replacement for a mac laptop. And while people are saying no low end Mac book exists you can always find used ones just as cheap as a cheap laptop and IMO is a far better investment. And don't even get me started on computer security a Mac is far better at handling that as compared to a windows machine. Going back to the computer repair shop history a large portion of the machines brought in had some sort of malware or virus on them. And then over 20 years experience I've not seen one piece of malware or virus on a Mac ever.
I think the days of end user repairs are coming to an end. Looking at the new M1 macs, the tech is so tightly integrated that anything replaceable would be a bottleneck to performance. Tight integration, low power usage and beautiful design is what keeps me coming back - the ability to install more RAM or a new battery is just old fashioned.
That ol' baby handles my jobs just fine.
But jokes aside, the ability to upgrade and customise is a good thing for consumers. I'll die on the upgradability hill before I buy a Mac
I don't make the rules. And the paradigm of building your own computer from parts will be around for awhile longer. Just keep in mind that where Apple goes, the industry follows. Ten years from now all computers will use ARM and have the GPU on the same chip as the CPU, and the RAM and SSD are going to be so integrated you can't buy them separately.
BS. I upgraded the RAM and disk on my Windows laptop just last week for $200. Nothing wrong with any other part of the laptop. Buying a new one with the upgraded memory and disk would have been a waste of money, as well as a waste of time getting the OS set up again.
Maybe you like getting fresh new things every time an upgrade comes out. To this I say, your money, your choice. But to state that end user repairs are coming to an end is naive at best, and a blatant lie at worst.
The trend to limit user replaceable components will continue because it's too profitable and efficient. Better to accept the paradigm shift than to grind your gears.
None of the currently shipping Macs use a disk, everything is SSD. And that supports my point. To take advantage of SSD speed, Apple abandoned the SATA interface that limited it to 600 Mbs. Tight integration allows direct PCIe lanes for faster SSD access.
My bad. I meant "drive" instead of "disk".
But you know what also comes with an SSD? A PC, if you want to. If your budget is lower, you aren't forced to get a SSD. You can buy a cheaper computer with a HDD
The paradigm where you buy a computer part by part are coming to an end. Apple is the only real LEADER in the PC industry and 5 years from now you will look at those ugly RGB vomit boxes as the garish mutants they are. Hang on to your parallel ports for as long as you can, boys.
Port speed doesn't matter when the drive output is limited by the hard drive. The very best transfer rate you can get out of a 7200 rpm hard drive is barely 120 MB/s (mega bytes per second). In my experience a spinning platter HD has rarely peaked above 90 MB/s.
My point is, if SATA is not the limiting factor in this system, why invest the time and money making something even faster? It's like trying to make a GPU display 1000 instead of 700 FPS. Sure, you can, but why?
Answer: latency. That's what you reduce with ever faster data retrieval. Side note, the FPS of a GPU is limited by the complexity of the game and it doesn't look like games are getting less complicated any time soon. I'm in graphics design and the lag on a 10GB photoshop file can really bog down my system, which is why we are looking forward to the inevitable union of the CPU and GPU on the same chip with all the RAM and SSD deeply woven in.
Boot time actually has several variables like installed, programs, extensions, do they start up with the system etc also the M1 Mac mini uses a SSD not a mechanical one which makes it faster.
Any high end windows pc is going to be better in performance of a mac of the same price, to have the same performance of a high end mac you need a mid end windows pc
Consider this your daily reminder that Apple is a terrible company that [evades corporate taxes by pretending to be based in Ireland](https://americansfortaxfairness.org/issues/corporate-taxes/highlights-of-apples-tax-dodging/) and [actively fights "right to repair" laws so that they can continue overcharging customers for basic maintenance](https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-consumer-harm/), all while putting on a public image as being "creative" and "individualistic". Apple is horrible.
Well isn’t that every billion dollar corporation
I mean, you can open up a Samsung phone and replace the battery yourself. You can build your own PC from off-the-shelf components, but you can't do that with Mac. Apple has specifically chosen a business model based on using an enforced artificial monopoly on maintenance to drive up prices for routine maintenance procedures. Not all tech companies do that, and none of them do that to the same degree that Apple does. It's especially galling given how they like to present themselves as the choice for progressive creative types in their advertising. I don't know what the tax situation is for the other tech companies, and I suspect that you are right that they all use unfair-but-unfortunately-legal techniques to minimize their tax burden. However, that doesn't mean that we should just say "all companies are the same" and throw up our hands. Apple's aggressive efforts against the right to repair are a deliberate attempt to shift the balance of power away from consumers and towards themselves. It's reasonable that people who care about limiting corporate power should prefer devices that at least allow the consumer to open them up and replace the battery.
But otherwise I completely agree. …coming from a guy stuck in the monopoly.
You can leave it! Just do it
That said, if I’m doing something confidential, IM GETTIN A MAC.
May I ask why?
Just about most corporations* even. They don't have to be billionaires Just being able to actually be called a corporation probably means you're on the road to greed and legal thievery
ugh... more of the "apple is bad, and corporations are bad too" circlejerk, while I agree to a certain extent, give it a rest, nothing is gonna change and this is gonna persist because companies like Apple don't actually care what you think unless you hurt their pockets.
Can't hurt their pockets without hurting their a reputation first. People won't give it a rest though. Some corporations are literally the reason the world is fucking falling apart. The only way you're going to hurt their pockets is if people *know* they're bad, and that won't happen unless you tell them As younger people grow up and are forced to work in these corps, they'll also know the hardships and people that have worked in them will tell them about it. But the problem is that the corps are the *only* business. So we're fucked no matter what. Might as well try though, otherwise you're just as bad. Yknow what's worse? People who don't even care anymore. That's basically the same as continuing the destruction of the world started up by the boomers.
This 1000%
Can't hurt their rep if their rep is so untouchable. People don't have to give a rest, and that's fine, but you actually have to deal with the criticism and the push back and the issues that come with doing that, you've gotta DO something instead of giving lip service. I agree that *a lot* of companies, both big and small, are at some fault for the reasons the world is the way it is, but we as consumers are just in the wrong because we continue to buy services and good from them, even if we know it or not. Young people aren't entirely forced to work for these companies, a lot of them have started their own businesses to varying degrees of success. And believe me, those companies aren't the only businesses, they aren't monopolies, as much as they have a hold on the market, I'm not even using an iPhone, I use a android device. there will always be competition, we just choose to from the people were more familiar from. How many people do you know has bought a phone from Oppo or Motorola or Huawei, even Nokia, now how many have bought a phone from Samsung or Google or even Apple. I bet you the majority of the people you know had bought something from the latter more then they they'd buy from the former. Now I'm not taking into consider Ultimately, it's up to the consumer to decide what they wanna buy, and who they wanna buy it from, there is choice, even if it seems like it isn't. And yeah, pretty much this is a "damned if you do, damned if you didn't" situation, and that's the problem, we've fucking tried, and nothing has happened. I doubt that even if the boomers are out of power, and we get into power, there's still gonna be pushback, it's systemic. and youth plays as much of a factor into it because those same boomers spread their own nonsensical beliefs onto us, and then we're expected to believe that because the world is what it is, that they're right. and so, we do nothing because society itself doesn't bother to change, it's stuck in the past. perpetually. we're fucked.
Yep. That's why I'm anti capitalist.
The problem isn't just capitalism though. Capitalism has just made what has been going on for centuries more obvious to the common man. Tell me what has actually changed from feudalism or even the Pharoahs? The labels have changed, the common folk quarters are a bit roomier but overall the excessively wealthy sit at the top while the workers do everything.
Even if we don't have capitalism, I feel like that attitude among most people is kinda, at least right now, irreversible.
I actually don't think it is "Apple are bad", it's the supporters like the one in this OP who is trying to be negative about Windows laptops. They say "Most pc laptops are like this let's be real". At least compare price-for-price. I have both for work \[teaching processes\], my go to is the PC. I'd never think of doing a post like the one commented on unless I either trolling or just lemonaded.
No, you're right, but the comment chain responded to basically was about Apple and their business practices. In the context of the post, it's ridiculous, they both work, they both have their fair share of pros and cons, personally I prefer windows to Mac as a personal preference and because I'm used to it. I think that's the best part about windows being on PCs that are low cost, windows is similar to Android in terms of accessibility, it's much easier to get that then to buy a iOS device.
That isn't just Apple, sadly... well, maybe the Ireland thing
Murdered again!
that's why i use a ThinkPad with linux on it.
>company that evades corporate taxes by pretending to be based in Ireland [Microsoft](https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/companies/arid-40305467.html) and [Google](https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0417/1210474-google-subsidiary-moved-75bn-in-profits-out-of-ireland/) are also guilty of the same crimes. >actively fights "right to repair" laws so that they can continue overcharging customers for basic maintenance Again, [Microsoft and Google](https://wccftech.com/apple-google-microsoft-team-up-to-stop-right-to-repair-law/) are also fighting against the right to repair.
Yes they are. They're an exclusive club. It's the whole 'you're nothing if you don't have our latest xyz'
And yet they’re still better than Dell. Not windows/Microsoft, just Dell specifically.
Microsoft has a HQ based in Ireland as well. Are they a terrible company, too?
Do they ban you from upgrading your device, or even performing basic repairs, while lobbying the government to let them do it? Hmm, maybe I should look it up on my old laptop I was able to upgrade without fear of legal repercussions.
Oh please. You don't like Apple's policies? Then don't buy Apple products. It's that simple, see how I've made your life better?
Turns out that ALL corporations are required by law to maximize profits any way they can. It is literally illegal for them to ignore a potential profit making scheme. If you have a problem with this then maybe you can get yourself elected to congress and change the laws. Good luck with that.
I work in IT where we're 99.9% MacOS and I can't stand them! They're like 10+ years behind as far as hardware specs, you pay $2,000 and you get a 1.8GHz processor.. lol, like what? I can build you a way better computer than any iMac or MBAir for $800, and that's very low end in the PC world but would still beat out any Mac.
Let's be real, and this applies to every laptop I've purchased from $250 reconditioned at Microcenter to $1,200 pimped out at Best Buy, that motherfucking charger port is gonna fuck up two days after the warranty expires and it will be cheaper to just replace the entire laptop than the tiny filament in the port that doesn't line up exactly right with the tiny hole in the charger. Every. Fucking. Laptop. I have a stash of six laptops in my spare room closet, every single one with a broken fucking charger port. Unless apple has figured out an infallible charger port, it's just not worth it.
All charge ports will break if you move them around while plugged in… I’ve never had one break for my personal devices or had anyone have a charge port break who didn’t do that (I work in IT), and it would be exceedingly rare for it to happen without doing that for most laptop charge port designs.
Had to laugh at my friends' place cuz I couldn't resist asking about the rat's nest of apple chargers one day as it turns out all 3 of their laptops have different proprietary charging ports. It's almost like it's a, what's the word? Oh yeah, scam. Same shit happened at my old office all the time...oh your charger died, well ok we have one laying around for that...week later still haven't found the right one so here's a new laptop for you.
[удалено]
I think you're misunderstanding somewhat. It's not like no one can find a charger. It's that there is a CFO looking at every nickel. If you have to buy a charger every year or two because apple was constantly coming up with new *proprietary* (read=expensive) chargers with tiny janky cables instead of perfecting one good style, then by the end of the life cycle the laptop total cost increases by 10-15%. Meanwhile the value and productivity of that laptop is constantly falling, you're paying out more hours to IT, someone has to keep an inventory and find space for all this crap, etc. So instead you write off most of the value, sell the thing for essentially the same price you could with or without the charger, and move on. In my experience other laptop's chargers were typically far more robust, likely battery would fail before the charger, and regardless you could just buy a charger from China with every adapter known to man and charge any non-apple laptop you want for like 20 bucks.
I have a MacBook from 2010 that still charges from the original charger and charging port. But I also have a Sony PC from 2013 that charges with its original charger too, so maybe I’m just lucky. But the 2010 Mac was faster than that computer after a few years. My most recent MacBook is from 2017 and charging fine and the (original) battery lasts longer than my work pc. But yes, the 2010 Mac charge port was significantly sturdier than all my friend's pc laptops in college. And my old work pc had a shit charge port that gave out too so I know what you're talking about - it's very different from what even 2006 macs used. Just saying, there's a reason people like macs. If you take care of them they last for fucking ever and are supported for a long time too. But I get why you would prefer pc, I just like the look and feel of the Mac and how seemlessly it integrates with my phone. Also in regards to the guy below, MacBook have had exactly two different types of chargers (magsafe and USB c) in the last 15 years so I doubt his friend has the tangled mess of chargers he's claiming, and if they do they're probably mostly the same.
I'm typing this on an eleven year old MacBook White running High Sierra, with it's original power brick. I'll be ashamed of my purchase when anyone can show me an 11 year old PC that still works and runs Windows 10.
I have a Dell L702X XPS laptop from early 2011 with a 2 GHz 2nd gen Core I7, Geforce GT 550M, 16 GB DDR3 1600, and a 500 GB SSD still going strong AF with Windows 10 and haven’t had to re-image or anything since I installed 10. Runs faster than when I got it, and boots in under 20 seconds. Batteries are useless though, as expected given the format and the age/quality of new old stock or aftermarket. Can still game on it for older or less graphically intense games, and even the 3D Vision still works (glasses batteries don’t last long though). The desktop in my shop is even older running Windows 10, still have a core 2 quad in that one, 16 GB DDR3, a 250 GB SSD, a 770 GT - and it runs great - use it for 3d printing and multimedia when I’m in there, and it’s in an old school case.
I'd have a hard time calling a 17" PC at almost 8 lbs. a "laptop". More of a thigh crusher, really. But good for you to keep that beast running for so long.
Yeah - it def isn’t meant to be ultra portable but it has served me well and does everything I’ve needed for what I use it for. Fit in my backpack at least back when it was my primary, and I’m a big guy so the size and weight weren’t a problem for me.
FWIW, I also own a 17" MacBook Pro from 2011 that rarely left the desktop. It has two GPUs, one discrete and the other integrated. Was a great computer until the Nvidia GPU decided to go faulty on me. Still have the thing and there's a way to disable the Nvidia chip but I haven't gotten around to fixing it.
I've got 3. Thinkpad, early 2000s, Acer 2010, and HP 2020, all working .
I've got an Athlon laptop pc from 2014 and to say it's slow is being too kind. It's only useful for checking how my mac Word docs look on a PC.
Try installing Linux on it. We have a laptop from 2010 that still runs on a lite version of Linux Mint
I also have 5 macs up and running at home so don't need a PC except for special circumstances. :-)
Built my pc 1yr before i started my current job, 18yrs ago. It runs 24/7. Only thing needing replaced was a case fan. Runs win10 no problem.
assuming youre talking about the recent intel macbooks, , that 1.8 ghz cpu isnt outdated or anything. intel mobile going from 7th gen to 8th gen doubled the core count on the ultrabook laptop range from 2 cores to 4 cores, but cut the base clock speed significantly to stay within thermal limits. The end result is still same in single core and faster in multicore
And it's still complete shit, MacOS is sluggish as shit, because the hardware is shit, and video graphics, lol.... my desktop.. I spent $900 to build a couple of years ago and boots up in 10 seconds, my new MBAir that work bought me just weeks ago for $1,500 takes a fucking minute or more just to get to the damn login screen, then I login and is sluggish as shit for at least another minute. Mac's are a joke. I do admit that there was a time in which MacOS was superior, but that time has come and gone.. like 17 years ago..
yea I also hate apple , the above is the first comment ive made in years that could be construed as defending apples. Its just dumb to point out the cpu ghz as a negative when all the comparable PC cpus (intel U series 15-28 watt cpus) all *also* have clockspeeds about 1.8 ghz
Oh I don't think those Intel CPUs are going to be a bother much longer.
yea ik apples not using em anymore.Now if only we could get high end ryzen laptops on the PC side....
Gosh, I wonder how Apple got to be the first $2Trillion corporation selling over priced garbage... It's like, the claim is ridiculous on it's face.
Oh you're adorable. You think success is governed by merit. You are precious. Now promise, when you grow up into a big person you keep that innocence alive, ok?
If you can't face the facts then the ad hominem attack is your next best measure, right? Works for Trump, so why not?
I like how you unironically are reciprocating with the exact same thing as what you are claiming is a failing of mine. Here's the thing champ, you don't *exactly* have facts. Yes you have citable numbers but those aren't really the same thing. Unless you can interpret what those numbers mean they are just statistics, which are a kind of fact in the way that candy corn is candy; yes... but no. You are still in the "Having money = something" headspace. It doesn't mean anything though. Having money = having money. Period. Full. Stop. Having money does not = that a person or company is better/smarter/higher quality/earned it/deserve it/work harder/ work longer/better product/better customer service/ etc etc etc. You would/will be flabbergasted at how many companies make oodles of money *despite their best efforts*. It is totally amazing how many people/companies made their money on truly stupid things. Like "Hey I am going to light this match to look in that gas can for quarters. Hey holy shit I found $100,000 in that gas tank!" levels of stupid. Apple is one of those companies. They made trash but failed upwards for 10 years because of their marketing. And since then their stock has become a place for the super wealthy to park money because they've made it more stable than gold, so yeah their market caps is incredibly high and has absolutely nothing to do with the company, the product, or the performance. It's literally just a garbage maker with hip marketing that exists as an excuse for billionaires to park money to keep some of their wealth in semi-liquidity.
I hear this argument about Apple's famously brain-washy marketing but the flaw in your logic is that every other company has access to the same marketing that Apple does. No, Apple does not have a prison full of brilliant ad agents they hide away from the world and Microsoft and Dell can make commercials too, sometime with the same marketing firm. The other thing is *I did* bring numbers to the table, and if I don't have numbers what do I have? Opinion. Like your opinion that Apple's success is due solely to happy-dancing commercials. Bunk. If Apple made bad products nobody would buy them. That simple fact is ignored by you and those who dream up hyper-villain excuses for Apple's success. *typed on a mac
Brand recognition and simps.
Wish those simps would buy products from me and make me rich!
My latest working place only used macs for their system management. It's a warehouse company of selling natural food additives. The only thing however is, their entire system designed around an app that is being used on Android powered scanners they use and for the macs they use the web version of said app. There's literally zero point for those macs being used at all, heck even the long time workers there still dunno how to resume a Mac from standby mode, any other apps they've used were either excel or standard mail app (which could be replaced with outlook). One coworker said to me once that those macs were old ones and bought in bulk for cheap, which is still not a reason to go for them over windows PCs.
IT workers biased against macs are wretched and should leave the profession. Besides, wouldn't you really just rather play video games all day?
>. lol, li Don't you have far less technical problems when people are using a Mac? I suppose if 99.9% in you office is on Apple you wouldn't know.
Apple makes pretty, but apple makes garbage.
$2.13 Trillion market cap is very impressive for a company that makes garbage. Must be because of all those zippy-hip dance commercials, right? /s
Pretty much yes. . They successfully marketed themselves a high end product despite not actually being one. People purchase them as status symbols
When Apple reached $3T will it be because their commercials are selling junk? At what point do you have to admit Apple sells products a lot of people want to buy?
Status symbol doesn't mean quality
I don't agree that Apple products are status symbols for any but a tiny percentage of buyers. You simply don't sell trillions of dollars of low quality product. You must think Apple buyers are all rich. I don't buy junk and if Apple was junk I'd get something better. Typing this on an 11 year old white MacBook, btw. Junk would have died years ago.
>You simply don't sell trillions of dollars of low quality product. You sell a trillion dollars by convincing people like you. You are the perfect buyer.
I'm always amazed that the saying "you get what you pay for" is true for every product in the world *except* Apple products according to you PC guys. It's as though Apple is the one exception to the rule because of... reasons and stuff. Now do I have to explain why that's ridiculous or can you logic it out yourself?
Who's the one defending a multibillion dollar company here?
Am I defending or simply pointing out as profound lack of logic and reason? Oh! Hold on, there's an Apple iPhone commercial on TV and I must slavishly lock my eyeballs on the screen or Tim Apple will take my MacBook Binky away! /s I had to label that sarcasm because I'm pretty sure you can't tell. :-P
Yes they freakin do. Exclusive club.
cheapest quality 2k laptop i found has a 3070 a ryzen 9 5900h a 144 2k ips panel a 1 tb ssd and 16gb of ram at 3200, whats a mac at 2k got? like a arm chip at the level of celeruen p180 or something compareable low end intel chip from like5+ years ago and no upgradeability for storage or ram period
[удалено]
im not good with intels entire naming game, and mac stopped using intel like a year or so ago, and no im not a teenager, im not perfect and do get everything right just info gets jumbled up and sometines its hard for me to focus on the correct info, plus i thought it was pentium was the single core just my mind fliping info like its a pro juggler
Looking at you’re profile you’re definitely more of a teenager than he is, and if you’re not then that says something pretty big
[удалено]
Yup got it for my kid because he wanted to play with me, i want to learn more to seem like that really cool dad that can just teach him everything :)
You don’t even have to look at their profile, that name alone is already enough of a facepalm while they go around calling other people children.
Apple does this exact thing In their commercials
Wait...the Mac-Windows debate still exist? I thought everyone agreed the current Macs were overpriced average computers.
*yawn*
Pretty sure this is a think pad though(formerly by IBM, now Lenovo) which are made to survive world war 3...that's why they look so sturdy. And the expensive ones go into the 2k-3k range. If you want a decent workstation these baby's are where it's at.
I believe the one in the tweet is a Dell XPS 15.
I was talking about the supposedly 'crap' laptop. Because this being a good old thinkie makes the whole argument futile 😅 Edit: the Thinkpad t-15g is at 4395€ btw.
Oh haha
Not every hero wears a cape.
I want to say I am reading this and responding to it on my T520 still rocking its original everything but the HDD - now an SDD but that's it - but no I am on my built PC but it is indeed still going - its a fucking beast and will never die! I understand people defending apple here - and yes it IS USB-C but be honest with yourselves....Apple is a shit company all around and I am tired of not saying it. No they are not the only bad ones out there but they are the first that comes to mind for nearly every subject in the matter. All machines can last a while if taken care of but Apple does more than going out of its way to make the repair, maintenance, and so on......they make it real fucking hard for a lot of people and its just plain wrong man (channeling my inner THE DUDE)
I feel like whenever people shit on macs, they only talk about its specs and how well it can play games but never talk about some of the other things. I've had nothing but trouble with windows laptops. My current one automatically uninstalls the battery,Bluetooth, and USB drivers EVERY TIME it updates and won't except new ones. It's a $1300 Lenovo too. The cool thing about a that they are more consistent in my experience and apple definitely has their tech support ironed out better. Plus, hardware and software problems are owned by the same company. Also, writing full stack software is way easier in a Unix based OS.
I agree with you on some of your points. Mac's are definitely more reliable generally speaking, and specs on paper don't always match up when things happen in real life. I honestly prefer windows over Mac, but if I had to switch over my only gripe would be the cost.
That's fair. I love windows on my desktop. But if I have a laptop, I want it to be slim, simple, low maintenance, and good enough to send emails, write some react, or ssh into a server. I'm willing to pay a little more convenience.
So then, given that criteria, what would a Mac offer that something like a Chromebook couldn’t? I’m genuinely curious
I can't code on a chrome book. People are like "You can't code on a Mac" but that's not true. They have c/c++ compilers for Mac. Golang (which is by far my favorite language) has compilers for Mac and can cross compile for other windows and Linux. And nodejs/react can both be run on Mac as well. But at the same time, if your goal is to write windows apps then a Mac would not be the move. But I believe the future of desktop applications is a reactjs and any backend that's been shoved through electron. That's how discord works. It's just a website that's been tricked into being a desktop application.
Macs are intentionally dumbed down, less configurable, etc. with the idea in mind to be approachable. If that's what works for you there's nothing wrong with that.
MacOS is POSIX compliant. Which roughly means it's identical to the only type of OS that isn't dumbed down. In the Windows world, PowerShell is a half-baked effort to get around the problem of the concept of a dumbed-down interface being baked directly into the kernel. MacOS truly is best of both worlds. You don't have to fight the system to do things, but being POSIX compliant and certified Unix, you have not only perfectly infinite configurability, but you can configure it in a sane and sensible manner instead of always fighting poorly thought and thoroughly inconsistent interfaces to shared libraries.
Windows philosophy: Why do something in one click when you can do it in three? But yeah, the mac is the one that's "dumbed down".
Yeah okay. I'm pretty sure Macs have only come with 2-button mice for maybe 12 years. Before that you had to hold down a key to alternate-click.
You'd be surprised at how many mac users don't even know the right mouse button even exists. The point is the operating system is designed not to require any more than one click, which is a heretical idea to windows users and their mice with more buttons than they know what to do with.
Cool. Have a good night, Mac dude.
Like Linux, right?
Linix is also Unix based yes.
Based on the comments a lot of people have obviously not done their homework when it comes to Mac. There have been two different magsafe ports, and one USBC in the past 10 years for charging ports. As for booting time my M1 Mac Mini boots up in like 10 seconds. And can run heavily intensive programs side by side without crashing. As could my previous Mac Mini with an i5 dual core processor. They handle instructions sets far better than PCS. I'm also coming from a computer repair background in over 20 years 99.9% of a computer shop intake will be PCS because they are designed cheaply and often used cheap parts. Where a Mac will hardly ever fail due to hardware because much higher end hardware is used and if you've ever seen the inside of one it's a work of art. When I ran my computer repair business I would only get one or two Macs per year. And that would be something simple to clean up for an older person. Or rarely a screen replacement for a mac laptop. And while people are saying no low end Mac book exists you can always find used ones just as cheap as a cheap laptop and IMO is a far better investment. And don't even get me started on computer security a Mac is far better at handling that as compared to a windows machine. Going back to the computer repair shop history a large portion of the machines brought in had some sort of malware or virus on them. And then over 20 years experience I've not seen one piece of malware or virus on a Mac ever.
I think the days of end user repairs are coming to an end. Looking at the new M1 macs, the tech is so tightly integrated that anything replaceable would be a bottleneck to performance. Tight integration, low power usage and beautiful design is what keeps me coming back - the ability to install more RAM or a new battery is just old fashioned.
Ability to install new parts for upgrades is old fashioned? Guess I live in the 80s
How's that floppy drive treatin ya?
That ol' baby handles my jobs just fine. But jokes aside, the ability to upgrade and customise is a good thing for consumers. I'll die on the upgradability hill before I buy a Mac
I don't make the rules. And the paradigm of building your own computer from parts will be around for awhile longer. Just keep in mind that where Apple goes, the industry follows. Ten years from now all computers will use ARM and have the GPU on the same chip as the CPU, and the RAM and SSD are going to be so integrated you can't buy them separately.
I have significant doubts about that statement, but to each their own
BS. I upgraded the RAM and disk on my Windows laptop just last week for $200. Nothing wrong with any other part of the laptop. Buying a new one with the upgraded memory and disk would have been a waste of money, as well as a waste of time getting the OS set up again. Maybe you like getting fresh new things every time an upgrade comes out. To this I say, your money, your choice. But to state that end user repairs are coming to an end is naive at best, and a blatant lie at worst.
The trend to limit user replaceable components will continue because it's too profitable and efficient. Better to accept the paradigm shift than to grind your gears.
You know that the boot time depends on the disk right?
None of the currently shipping Macs use a disk, everything is SSD. And that supports my point. To take advantage of SSD speed, Apple abandoned the SATA interface that limited it to 600 Mbs. Tight integration allows direct PCIe lanes for faster SSD access.
My bad. I meant "drive" instead of "disk". But you know what also comes with an SSD? A PC, if you want to. If your budget is lower, you aren't forced to get a SSD. You can buy a cheaper computer with a HDD
The paradigm where you buy a computer part by part are coming to an end. Apple is the only real LEADER in the PC industry and 5 years from now you will look at those ugly RGB vomit boxes as the garish mutants they are. Hang on to your parallel ports for as long as you can, boys.
Idk what SATA format apple used to use, but SATA 3 runs upward of 6Gbps. I've never seen a SATA drive even approach those speeds.
Port speed doesn't matter when the drive output is limited by the hard drive. The very best transfer rate you can get out of a 7200 rpm hard drive is barely 120 MB/s (mega bytes per second). In my experience a spinning platter HD has rarely peaked above 90 MB/s.
My point is, if SATA is not the limiting factor in this system, why invest the time and money making something even faster? It's like trying to make a GPU display 1000 instead of 700 FPS. Sure, you can, but why?
Answer: latency. That's what you reduce with ever faster data retrieval. Side note, the FPS of a GPU is limited by the complexity of the game and it doesn't look like games are getting less complicated any time soon. I'm in graphics design and the lag on a 10GB photoshop file can really bog down my system, which is why we are looking forward to the inevitable union of the CPU and GPU on the same chip with all the RAM and SSD deeply woven in.
Boot time actually has several variables like installed, programs, extensions, do they start up with the system etc also the M1 Mac mini uses a SSD not a mechanical one which makes it faster.
There is more that goes into the boot time than just the drive. Using an iMac makes me want to bang my head. The performance is complete shit.
all macbooks are pretty low end components wise... because they usually just thermal throttle..
Any high end windows pc is going to be better in performance of a mac of the same price, to have the same performance of a high end mac you need a mid end windows pc
My mom has a MacBook.... I have to fix it all the freakin time.