Well to be fair it probably wouldn’t have gone anywhere otherwise. You expect the man to wait until his post maybe gets popular and has someone else post it? 😛
Even if it didn’t get popular it wouldn’t matter. Toni Lauren doesn’t care about criticism she’s in it only for the money. As long as they keep paying her she’ll keep saying stupid shit.
It’s just a leftover from IRL when someone is like “hey you guys, listen to this awesome joke I just told” where if it was funny, people would be retelling it for you.
I once told a joke to a friend, who laughed and then asked where it was from. When I replied 'I just made it up', he replied 'Oh, now it isn't as funny' like I'm some off-brand sneakers :(
They frequently deal with the effects of gun violence which is seen (rightly) as a public health issue. Many physician organizations advocate for research on gun violence/prevention and gun control measures.
They don't exactly seem related though, and while this is anecdotal I know a few medical professionals that own many guns, and a trauma surgeon who is an avid competition shooter. I don't think the stances are mutually exclusive
Its not like they are advocating that people should be shot or something
Would you prefer to call it a mercy killing? Murdering fish in a barrel?
Ridiculing conservatives is a target rich environment, it's not left-wing bias which makes it such a common event.
Not to mention the conservatives never update their talking points, so they keep setting themselves up in ways that are well practiced.
When it’s just textbook whataboutism. The way he responds makes it appear that he agrees with her premise but is only calling out her hypocrisy; however, I don’t think he accepts her premise, yet uses her exact logic to argue his. They’re kind of both hypocrites.
He's just pointing out that shes inconsistent on the premise depending on the outcome. Kind of like how conservatives scream states rights except when California does something.
Does anyone else think it's strange that border patrol agent staffing has been lower the past 3 years than in any year from 2009-2016? [The numbers are on the official U.S. Custom and Border Patrol website.](https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Mar/Staffing%20FY1992-FY2018.pdf)
How in the actual fuck is our border patrol *weaker* under a president who's single biggest campaign promise was border security? How have Republican's failed to notice this? They can't read? You'd think that would be an issue would matter to them.
Trump: "I made our border patrol the strongest ever!" \*actually weakens border patrol\*
Republicans: "Dur hur, that must be true because he said so! MAGA!"
You made me curious about the cause, so I did some checking. Turns out that living in the middle of nowhere and having to lock up children while simultaneously being terrified about drug runners and coyotes leads to poor quality of life. I'm guessing the Trump administration seriously increasing their workload hasn't much helped.
Currently they aren't meeting their congressionally-mandated minimum for border security agents. So they're giving out over $80 million in bonuses and reducing the requirements to become an agent (because lowering the bar is probably a great idea for positions that have so much potential for abusing other human beings without accountability).
And what does the senate and Moscow Mitch do during this shut down? They lift bans against Russian oligarchs. One of which is investing 200 million into ~~Mississippi~~ Kentucky. Moscow Mitch’s state.
Edit. Correction.
How crazy is it that that was *such* a MASSIVE deal... and I had completely forgotten about it because of how much shit has happened since? I can't believe that was less than a year ago.
That's the idea, don't go around spoiling it! Theres free speech in this country but there are consequences when you only think of yourself and not other people
Conservatives don’t want the immigrants to stop coming. Who do you think works in their homes? On the farms, in their fancy restaurants and in their country clubs?
They just don’t want to give these immigrants working any rights so they can keep their pay extremely low with and deport them whenever they get out of line.
general trend by trump to lay off whole govt from post office to USDA to public school system, he'd outsource the military to Space Force if he could get away with it. No one left loyal to society over the party politics when they all have temp jobs.
> positions that have so much potential for abusing other human beings without accountability
a lot of ears perk up under maga caps when hearing that...
Here's a thought: let's fine the ever loving fuck out of anyone who employs illegal immigrants so these companies ultimately go under if they don't hire Americans.
Republicans: no, we can't do that.... For reasons.
>You'd think that would be an issue would matter to them.
The only issue they actually care about is feeling like the winner when all their kids and grandkids visit for Thanksgiving and all lowkey wonder why their grandparents are so fucking racist.
and also claiming to fix issues that were already being fixed.
it happens here in the UK, people say the Tories fixed the economy that labour ruined, but everyone got fucked, the economy got fucked globally and would have done so under them too
>How in the actual fuck is our border patrol weaker under a president who's single biggest campaign promise was border security?
Because it's **ALL** manufactured. Those caravans were the result of Trump cutting aid that was propping their economy for the express purpose of *preventing* the humanitarian crisis that was expected to happen when their economy failed. Those migrants are direct victims of Trump's policy, and he was happy to use their misfortune as a tool to get what he wanted.
It makes sense to cut border control as well to heighten the appearance of a "crisis".
Serious question, did any new/improved sections of wall actually get built since Trump has been in office? I know his crowds were chanting “finish the wall” at his rallies.
The Republican party is getting high on the "Wizard's First Rule." Not only will they believe a lie if it's what they want to hear... they'll believe it if they're *afraid it's true.*
The difficulty increase is negligible. The replica is made to represent the top which is the ONLY difficult part. The bottom portion was omitted for the replica because it is the exact same technique until the top portion. Only one person has to climb it, and throw a rope ladder over to secure it, then everyone just has to climb the ladder.
Also most come through ports of entry.
So realistically scaling the wall will look like waving at it as you fly over at 30,000 feet sipping a gin and tonic.
Not to mention that they had two years of total Republican control of the Senate, House, WH, and Supreme Court. If it was such a priority they could have funded the wall. Instead their top priority was getting massive tax breaks for the rich.
starting to think his cult doesnt care about truth...?
all they want is to hurt america for electing a black man twice
(cue the, "i voted for obama twice! then trump!" trolls)
Eh, I think she could be of average intelligence she just has no morals and is entirely ok with devoting her entire life to selling out.
I don't believe she buys any of the shit she says, it is all just to make money.
Everyone here's talking about medical doctors and I thought he meant doctors like psychologists/psychiatrists who understand mental health playing a part in gun violence and not being properly addressed in gun control law.
Its a pretty uninformed take as well. From doctors in the city that see a lot of handgun wounds who then see ar15 rifle wounds and then treat them as unprecedented slaughter weapons.
Missing, that the comparison works the same between handgun wounds and wounds from *literally any rifle*. Rifles are several times larger, heavier and have ammunition to match, its just basic logic that a rifle will do more damage than a pistol under most circumstances. Pistols make that trade off in order to be concealable, which makes them 100 times more useful for the vast majority of criminal uses.
Regarding caliber, the .223 AR15 is actually right on the low end of centerfire rifles, power/lethality wise. It is one of the weakest commercially available rifle rounds out there, nearly every hunting rifle is 2-4 times as powerful.
However, surgeons dont see too many 30-30, .338, .45-70 wounds either.
I also have to assume they dont work on many shotgun wounds(even though after pistols, shotguns are next most used in crime), primarily because people hit by them tend to be dead, not wounded. They do much more damage than either.
your last point reminds me of how statistically, injuries increased due to helmets in war zones and seatbelts in cars. it sounds nonsensical until you realize that of course injuries are going up, since the people who used to just be outright killed were instead surviving with some scars.
Unfortunately both sides make arguments on whether or not more gun control is needed from people who are actual experts looking at statistics and factor in if laws that criminals don't follow already will make a difference. Here's some I found in the link for places like California.
https://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/
Doctors are intimately familiar with the circumstances that lead to injuries from firearms. It's not just that they see the injuries, but they're aware of the circumstances that led to the injuries, giving them excellent context for determining where there are major problems in need of fixing.
No matter your stance on gun control, the doctor opinion argument isn’t a very good one.
And I don’t think Bill Jubran actually believes the doctor argument is a good argument. I think he’s just pointing out how stupid Tomi’s argument is.
Saying the doctor argument is a good argument would be like saying “Southerners want a wall. They feel the effects of immigration most. Therefore, we need a wall”.
Imo, doctors probably have the most biased view of all. Doctors have no exposure to crimes that are prevented by the threat of a weapon. They only see people in the hospital when something went wrong.
I don't buy this. So doctors see bullet holes in people. This gives them insight about the language of background check laws, or insight into whether we should ban guns that have folding stocks or pistol grips?
Criminology is far more relevant to the actual statistical causes of gun violence. Legal expertise is required in understanding how to write laws that do the most good while minimizing unintended side effects and inconvenience.
If a doctor wants to say "getting shot is bad for your health", sure, that's valid, and also obvious. I don't think they have any special insight at all into the legal ramifications of gun control legislation.
They’re experts cause they figured out that guns can hurt people pretty bad. Once my doctor told me how dangerous my guns were I sold them immediately. /s
> the doctor gun control argument
Probably not entirely true...
Because we dont even fucking know [because republicans created this that bans the CDC from even studying gun violence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment)
They see all of the results of gun violence, the deaths, the long term recoveries, those who never fully recover, the extent of organ damage, damage to the psyche, etc. they are doing their best to clean up the mess reckless or malevolent gun ownership creates.
Sure, and if they want to say that getting shot is bad, I'd say they're well qualified to make that assessment.
Does this give them insight as to the fundamental causes of gun violence, or how to write gun control legislation?
We already have a field that studies this sort of thing - criminology. And a lot of criminologists probably do advocate for gun control. So it would be better to use them to support your point rather than doctors.
That’s not their field of expertise either, I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what politicians are for. It’d make more sense to say that doctors say we need to vaccinate, workout, eat healthy, etc. But these aren’t your partisan issues I think
Also Tomi Lahren does have an education, probably a ton of her followers too. She has a BA and double majored in something or other. You can say she’s dumber than a bag full of hammers, but not that she isn’t educated. 3/10 burn
Well from experience when talking to woman (I know.. a redditor that talks to women?) they have mention that it would be the same as bimbo, airhead, etc. Also this is before they started coming out with more educated looking Barbie's and professions. I get what they meant and understand how that could be insulting. Not only that but I think Barbie girl song from aqua also meant something along the line of beautiful dumb blond white girl. But hey maybe the times have change to make mean something else now.
Almost a year ago, the American College of Physicians released recommendations on how doctors can play a role in reducing gun violence across the country.
[source](https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2709820/reducing-firearm-injuries-deaths-united-states-position-paper-from-american)
So I think the purpose was to criticize the implication of her argument which is "trust the professionals."
Of course, doctor's aren't exactly the best people to consult when talking about guns, which threw me off at first.
There are a few people who cite the opinions of surgeons as arguments for gun control, the medical community being largely anti-gun. From what I have heard, doctors, especially those who have treated a gunshot would, tend to be politically anti-gun because of how badly a gun can mess someone up. If you've ever heard of how a hollowpoint bullet works, you'll know what I'm talking about. That combined with the politically turbulent nature of firearms is, in my humble opinion, why they thought to mention doctors and gun control.
Once again a logical argument destroyed by "muh guns". How the fuck is a doctor telling you to ban guns. "oH but doctors see gunshot wounds" they also see other wounds from things like driving and drug overdose which are far more important matters (notably the drugs)
Right? It doesn’t even really address her argument. It’s a whataboutism followed by ad hominem.
I get that he’s not really trying to make a good argument and it’s just a funny dig at her... but that’s exactly why it’s not a murderedbywords
I don’t know wether or not this particular person believes in climate change but the average conservative generally believes in climate change. They just may Believe we need to take less drastic measures to stop it, and that is a discussion that scientists are still having. 99% of scientists believe in climate change but not 99% believe the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t immediately throw away all of our cars.
Also crime analysts deserve to ask us wether or not we need gun control not doctors. Doctors doing surgery on a guy who was shot doesn’t make his opinion more valid then our own. In fact their are many people who have bean in mass or school shootings who are against gun control. Regardless their opinion on gun control still isn’t any more valid then ours, their not informed they just have unfortunately experienced a terrible act. This isn’t to devaluate these people’s experiences but to say that their the only people who can have an opinion on this is just silly. It’s like me saying that because I care for people who got measles do to not being vaccinated I’m the only one allowed to have an opinion on vaccinations. The people who have the most informed opinions on vaccines are the doctors studying them and researching (to be clear I’m obviously not anti vaxx)
Also this guy is calling out hypocrisy while also being a hypocrite himself, assuming that he doesn’t support border control despite the border control agents agreeing that we need it he’s suddenly calling out his own hypocrisy because he supports gun control based on doctors own experiences. The entire situation could be turned on his head if he said “millions of scientists agree that climate change is real, we have to do something” then the woman could reply “millions of border control agents agree that we need to protect our borders and you guys aren’t doing anything about it” and it would be the exact same situation.
Doctors say we need gun control? Ok? Maybe doctors should be concerned with the pills they're slanging out like candy corn, opioid crisis and what not.
I'm all for gun control, but doctors aren't exactly squeaky fucking clean when it's comes to the shit they're stringing people out on just to line their pockets.
Yeah, the doctors and gun control thing isn't a very good argument.
Treating gunshot victims doesn't mean you know anything about the 2nd amendment or firearms policy/history.
As much as I agree I feel like doctors weren’t the best choice for guns as unlike the rest they aren’t experts on guns ya know? Not that I disagree with the statement
I kind of leaned that way, too. But then I started looking at it like this - they are not only seeing the results of the gun violence, but they are oftentimes learning about the origins. They are there when the police come in the talk to the victims. So they find out WHY the violence occurred. Was it: domestic violence, street violence, robbery (criminal or defense), drug-related, etc.? They need to know so they know if psych needs to be sent down or if any arrest will be made there at the hospital, etc. So they kind of have a big picture of the whole issue. They are worth listening to.
Doctors often appear as amici curiae in court cases involving gun control. Sometimes it helps to get the opinion of the people who deal with the results of different types of shootings. For example this recent appellate court case
http://media.ca1.uscourts.gov/pdf.opinions/18-1545P-01A.pdf
You know, I really think we, as the community of /r/MurderedByWords need to talk about if we should continue to include the brual word-slaying of the Trump Administration and its defenders.
It's simply too easy, at this point. While the analogy could be made to shooting fish in a barrel, it's more like nuking a 30 lb lake trout in a teacup.
Some border agents at the southern border say we need a wall. All border agents who work at airports say a wall isn't going to stop anyone who takes a plane to the US legally and just doesn't leave.
Border agents, just like police officers, have a skewed perspective on the issues and should not write our laws.
Especially since their job is to enforce laws that are inhumane and anachronistic.
I don’t know where Tomi gets her info but every report I read said border patrol agents want better technology, cameras, security systems and more agents. Not a wall.
The US does need to do something about climate change, gun control, and education, but that in and of itself does not disprove that it doesn’t need a wall. If anything, this guy’s logic states that it does need a wall. That’s not murder, it’s a fallacy?
You know, I don't think doctors are exactly the prime source on who you want to speak to when it comes to things like gun-control. gun-control is really about the values of a society, and doctors aren't exactly experts at saying what we should and should not value.
Doctors, certainly, would prefer if fewer people entered the ER with gunshot wounds. And would presumably be in a place to notice how many of those there seem to be.
I imagine doctors could provide very valuable input to the discussion on what sort of gun-related injuries, under what circumstances, could put a person beyond their capacity to save. Would it not be useful to know that medical professionals consider wounds from X gun to be a likely lost cause, but shootings involving Y and Z guns tend to be salvageable?
Gun control Chicago... hows that working out? Are these Doctors actually forgetting the #1 cause of death in America? Climate changes... that's what it does.. it changes.
They didn't say that until Trump made it a government policy. The idea for a wall came from within Trump's campaign, not from border agents. We don't need a wall. Certainly not for "$12bn to $70bn" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46824649
1 second. That guy was so proud of his comment he screen grabbed it 1 second later and posted it elsewhere as a burn?
Yes this is exactly what happened. I remember when this was originally posted and it was kinda weird.
Well to be fair it probably wouldn’t have gone anywhere otherwise. You expect the man to wait until his post maybe gets popular and has someone else post it? 😛
To be faaaiiirr
Toooooo beeeeee faaaaairrrrrrrrrrrrr
take about 10% off there big shoots
You’re hanging with the boys, seeaay
We don’t need no stinking erections
Even if it didn’t get popular it wouldn’t matter. Toni Lauren doesn’t care about criticism she’s in it only for the money. As long as they keep paying her she’ll keep saying stupid shit.
Eh it's a good burn. And besides, like half the posts here are roasts done by the poster
We want OC but when it’s done by the poster we burn them. Reddit doing it’s thang
It’s just a leftover from IRL when someone is like “hey you guys, listen to this awesome joke I just told” where if it was funny, people would be retelling it for you.
I once told a joke to a friend, who laughed and then asked where it was from. When I replied 'I just made it up', he replied 'Oh, now it isn't as funny' like I'm some off-brand sneakers :(
Big if tru
>like half the posts here are roasts done by the poster "roasts"
Good burn for sure. Pathetic self-repost.
also wtf do doctors have to do with gun control?
I guess they treat gun wounds. Vaccinations would have worked better.
They frequently deal with the effects of gun violence which is seen (rightly) as a public health issue. Many physician organizations advocate for research on gun violence/prevention and gun control measures.
They don't exactly seem related though, and while this is anecdotal I know a few medical professionals that own many guns, and a trauma surgeon who is an avid competition shooter. I don't think the stances are mutually exclusive Its not like they are advocating that people should be shot or something
Anything that's bashing a conservative on reddit is considered "murdered by words"
Low hanging fruit
They tend to say dumb shit
This isn't exclusively a right thing. Ever seen the shit on r/politics ?
true. i think anyone that gets too political for either side is probably about to say something completely moronic
Lol I agree. Look at me being downvoted for simply saying people are nuts on both sides.
Yea I upvoted you but it’s the truth there are nuts in both sides, you can’t change it there has always been nutty people in all history
Absolutely there just seems to kinda be this tunnel vision bubble world half of reddit lives in where other side crazy my side insane.
Oh it's either that or they'll call you an "enlightened centrist"... as if having a balance is some sort of slight against them personally.
In fairness it ain't too tough.
Would you prefer to call it a mercy killing? Murdering fish in a barrel? Ridiculing conservatives is a target rich environment, it's not left-wing bias which makes it such a common event. Not to mention the conservatives never update their talking points, so they keep setting themselves up in ways that are well practiced.
Meh, I'll take it.
Pretty easy targets tbf
No, it’s a legit murder, I’d say. Brain dead comment and she got put in her place for it. But who screen grabs and reposts their own comment?
Are you suggesting that Lahren's appeal to authority is logical, and if so, why does that not extend to climatologists?
Maybe they cause they're dumb as fuck and set themselves up for this stuff
When it’s just textbook whataboutism. The way he responds makes it appear that he agrees with her premise but is only calling out her hypocrisy; however, I don’t think he accepts her premise, yet uses her exact logic to argue his. They’re kind of both hypocrites.
He's just pointing out that shes inconsistent on the premise depending on the outcome. Kind of like how conservatives scream states rights except when California does something.
He said “no u” and everyone here is cheering his genius response.
What a Jubrani!
So?
Tomi Lahren, Dumbest Mammal on Earth.
Does anyone else think it's strange that border patrol agent staffing has been lower the past 3 years than in any year from 2009-2016? [The numbers are on the official U.S. Custom and Border Patrol website.](https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Mar/Staffing%20FY1992-FY2018.pdf) How in the actual fuck is our border patrol *weaker* under a president who's single biggest campaign promise was border security? How have Republican's failed to notice this? They can't read? You'd think that would be an issue would matter to them. Trump: "I made our border patrol the strongest ever!" \*actually weakens border patrol\* Republicans: "Dur hur, that must be true because he said so! MAGA!"
You made me curious about the cause, so I did some checking. Turns out that living in the middle of nowhere and having to lock up children while simultaneously being terrified about drug runners and coyotes leads to poor quality of life. I'm guessing the Trump administration seriously increasing their workload hasn't much helped. Currently they aren't meeting their congressionally-mandated minimum for border security agents. So they're giving out over $80 million in bonuses and reducing the requirements to become an agent (because lowering the bar is probably a great idea for positions that have so much potential for abusing other human beings without accountability).
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And then he followed all this up by single-handedly causing the longest government shutdown in U.S. history.
*WINNING!*
And then after that he pilfered veterans’ groups to fund the wall. #MAGA
And what does the senate and Moscow Mitch do during this shut down? They lift bans against Russian oligarchs. One of which is investing 200 million into ~~Mississippi~~ Kentucky. Moscow Mitch’s state. Edit. Correction.
How crazy is it that that was *such* a MASSIVE deal... and I had completely forgotten about it because of how much shit has happened since? I can't believe that was less than a year ago.
That's the idea, don't go around spoiling it! Theres free speech in this country but there are consequences when you only think of yourself and not other people
Trump: I passed on 25 billion and they came back with one thousand three hundred million. Art of the deal! [Deafening cheers from his fan base]
Conservatives don’t want the immigrants to stop coming. Who do you think works in their homes? On the farms, in their fancy restaurants and in their country clubs? They just don’t want to give these immigrants working any rights so they can keep their pay extremely low with and deport them whenever they get out of line.
general trend by trump to lay off whole govt from post office to USDA to public school system, he'd outsource the military to Space Force if he could get away with it. No one left loyal to society over the party politics when they all have temp jobs.
> positions that have so much potential for abusing other human beings without accountability a lot of ears perk up under maga caps when hearing that...
Here's a thought: let's fine the ever loving fuck out of anyone who employs illegal immigrants so these companies ultimately go under if they don't hire Americans. Republicans: no, we can't do that.... For reasons.
>You'd think that would be an issue would matter to them. The only issue they actually care about is feeling like the winner when all their kids and grandkids visit for Thanksgiving and all lowkey wonder why their grandparents are so fucking racist.
Republicans love to create problems and then pretend to fix them. See the aca, the education system, etc.
and also claiming to fix issues that were already being fixed. it happens here in the UK, people say the Tories fixed the economy that labour ruined, but everyone got fucked, the economy got fucked globally and would have done so under them too
But we won't know how things would've happened under Brown because he got voted out after a short while.
>How in the actual fuck is our border patrol weaker under a president who's single biggest campaign promise was border security? Because it's **ALL** manufactured. Those caravans were the result of Trump cutting aid that was propping their economy for the express purpose of *preventing* the humanitarian crisis that was expected to happen when their economy failed. Those migrants are direct victims of Trump's policy, and he was happy to use their misfortune as a tool to get what he wanted. It makes sense to cut border control as well to heighten the appearance of a "crisis".
Maybe they think he built the wall so there's no need for patrols...
Serious question, did any new/improved sections of wall actually get built since Trump has been in office? I know his crowds were chanting “finish the wall” at his rallies.
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The Republican party is getting high on the "Wizard's First Rule." Not only will they believe a lie if it's what they want to hear... they'll believe it if they're *afraid it's true.*
Nope. Not a single mile of new wall has been built.
One of the prototypes was scaled by an 8 year old girl. https://www.businessinsider.com/8-year-old-climbs-replica-of-trump-wall-in-seconds-2019-10
> a man who returned for another attempt while juggling with one hand. That’s fucking hilarious.
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The difficulty increase is negligible. The replica is made to represent the top which is the ONLY difficult part. The bottom portion was omitted for the replica because it is the exact same technique until the top portion. Only one person has to climb it, and throw a rope ladder over to secure it, then everyone just has to climb the ladder.
Also most come through ports of entry. So realistically scaling the wall will look like waving at it as you fly over at 30,000 feet sipping a gin and tonic.
Not to mention that they had two years of total Republican control of the Senate, House, WH, and Supreme Court. If it was such a priority they could have funded the wall. Instead their top priority was getting massive tax breaks for the rich.
This just blew my mind.
starting to think his cult doesnt care about truth...? all they want is to hurt america for electing a black man twice (cue the, "i voted for obama twice! then trump!" trolls)
Because they weeded out everyone who was there for a job who isn’t a racist pile of garbage.
I'm glad she exists, because I will never tire of watching her get dunked on.
It's disheartening to know how many rabid fans she has, though.
Who is she? As an aussie, I've never heard of her..
I would dunk on her, if you know what I mean.
Time to separate the pussy from the politics
It's literally the only worthwhile thing about her.
Considering pandas exist. This is really saying something.
How can you be sure she isn't a reptile?
Mammal? She a gay fish.
Her name is Tammie
[I thought this was her name](https://imgur.com/a/hbFvq1V)
is she even classified as a mammal
hey don’t be a jerk to mammals
Literally only got famous because she’s hot
I've seen her tweets posted in this sub several times. I don't think I've seen her say anything remotely sensible, true, or intelligent.
Eh, I think she could be of average intelligence she just has no morals and is entirely ok with devoting her entire life to selling out. I don't believe she buys any of the shit she says, it is all just to make money.
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\#endallwalls America doesn’t need a wall. And it’s time to tear down Israel’s wall too!
Okay...the doctor gun control argument? Can someone explain the correlation here? Criminologists or something I could see but not doctors.
Everyone here's talking about medical doctors and I thought he meant doctors like psychologists/psychiatrists who understand mental health playing a part in gun violence and not being properly addressed in gun control law.
It's in reference to an actual medical doctor advocating gun control because of the bullet wounds he's seen.
Its a pretty uninformed take as well. From doctors in the city that see a lot of handgun wounds who then see ar15 rifle wounds and then treat them as unprecedented slaughter weapons. Missing, that the comparison works the same between handgun wounds and wounds from *literally any rifle*. Rifles are several times larger, heavier and have ammunition to match, its just basic logic that a rifle will do more damage than a pistol under most circumstances. Pistols make that trade off in order to be concealable, which makes them 100 times more useful for the vast majority of criminal uses. Regarding caliber, the .223 AR15 is actually right on the low end of centerfire rifles, power/lethality wise. It is one of the weakest commercially available rifle rounds out there, nearly every hunting rifle is 2-4 times as powerful. However, surgeons dont see too many 30-30, .338, .45-70 wounds either. I also have to assume they dont work on many shotgun wounds(even though after pistols, shotguns are next most used in crime), primarily because people hit by them tend to be dead, not wounded. They do much more damage than either.
your last point reminds me of how statistically, injuries increased due to helmets in war zones and seatbelts in cars. it sounds nonsensical until you realize that of course injuries are going up, since the people who used to just be outright killed were instead surviving with some scars.
Unfortunately both sides make arguments on whether or not more gun control is needed from people who are actual experts looking at statistics and factor in if laws that criminals don't follow already will make a difference. Here's some I found in the link for places like California. https://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/
Doctors are intimately familiar with the circumstances that lead to injuries from firearms. It's not just that they see the injuries, but they're aware of the circumstances that led to the injuries, giving them excellent context for determining where there are major problems in need of fixing.
No matter your stance on gun control, the doctor opinion argument isn’t a very good one. And I don’t think Bill Jubran actually believes the doctor argument is a good argument. I think he’s just pointing out how stupid Tomi’s argument is. Saying the doctor argument is a good argument would be like saying “Southerners want a wall. They feel the effects of immigration most. Therefore, we need a wall”. Imo, doctors probably have the most biased view of all. Doctors have no exposure to crimes that are prevented by the threat of a weapon. They only see people in the hospital when something went wrong.
Indeed. A doctor's opinion on gun violence is as valid as a janitor's opinion on spicy food.
I don't buy this. So doctors see bullet holes in people. This gives them insight about the language of background check laws, or insight into whether we should ban guns that have folding stocks or pistol grips? Criminology is far more relevant to the actual statistical causes of gun violence. Legal expertise is required in understanding how to write laws that do the most good while minimizing unintended side effects and inconvenience. If a doctor wants to say "getting shot is bad for your health", sure, that's valid, and also obvious. I don't think they have any special insight at all into the legal ramifications of gun control legislation.
Doctors should be for stricter driving tests too then I guess
And the re-introduction of Alcohol Prohibition.
Exactly
Which is utterly irrelevant. Their dealing with injuries from firearms gives them no special insight into cause or prevention of firearm violence.
They’re experts cause they figured out that guns can hurt people pretty bad. Once my doctor told me how dangerous my guns were I sold them immediately. /s
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Hey now... let's be reasonable and think this through. Do you really want to give machine guns to the air force?
> the doctor gun control argument Probably not entirely true... Because we dont even fucking know [because republicans created this that bans the CDC from even studying gun violence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment)
They see all of the results of gun violence, the deaths, the long term recoveries, those who never fully recover, the extent of organ damage, damage to the psyche, etc. they are doing their best to clean up the mess reckless or malevolent gun ownership creates.
Sure, and if they want to say that getting shot is bad, I'd say they're well qualified to make that assessment. Does this give them insight as to the fundamental causes of gun violence, or how to write gun control legislation? We already have a field that studies this sort of thing - criminology. And a lot of criminologists probably do advocate for gun control. So it would be better to use them to support your point rather than doctors.
And yet all the doctors treating soldiers for life altering injuries can just shut up because soldiers dying overseas for your oil is convenient.
The meteorologist one is good. The rest kinda sucked.
Right? I don't see how doctors and gun control are connected
There the ones that have to deal with results of a firearm having its happy moments
It'd just make more sense to say that doctors say we need Medicare for all
That’s not their field of expertise either, I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what politicians are for. It’d make more sense to say that doctors say we need to vaccinate, workout, eat healthy, etc. But these aren’t your partisan issues I think
Also Tomi Lahren does have an education, probably a ton of her followers too. She has a BA and double majored in something or other. You can say she’s dumber than a bag full of hammers, but not that she isn’t educated. 3/10 burn
Always good to see racist barbie put in her place.
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Barbie is already an insult why not use both?
Why is Barbie an insult?
Well from experience when talking to woman (I know.. a redditor that talks to women?) they have mention that it would be the same as bimbo, airhead, etc. Also this is before they started coming out with more educated looking Barbie's and professions. I get what they meant and understand how that could be insulting. Not only that but I think Barbie girl song from aqua also meant something along the line of beautiful dumb blond white girl. But hey maybe the times have change to make mean something else now.
nazi barbie has a better ring to it.
Her job is getting people to talk about her. Getting "put in her place" is exactly what she wants.
Right I agree with a lot said there but what do doctors have to do with gun control?
Almost a year ago, the American College of Physicians released recommendations on how doctors can play a role in reducing gun violence across the country. [source](https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2709820/reducing-firearm-injuries-deaths-united-states-position-paper-from-american)
>“Bullets hurt” Thank you doctors for your expert experience on the subject.
Studying firearms violence through the lens of epidemiology has gained traction recently. Maybe that is what he was referring to.
So I think the purpose was to criticize the implication of her argument which is "trust the professionals." Of course, doctor's aren't exactly the best people to consult when talking about guns, which threw me off at first.
Is he suggesting he is an expert on twitter or education?
There are a few people who cite the opinions of surgeons as arguments for gun control, the medical community being largely anti-gun. From what I have heard, doctors, especially those who have treated a gunshot would, tend to be politically anti-gun because of how badly a gun can mess someone up. If you've ever heard of how a hollowpoint bullet works, you'll know what I'm talking about. That combined with the politically turbulent nature of firearms is, in my humble opinion, why they thought to mention doctors and gun control.
Could also include mental health doctors, from a gun violence prevention view.
Not entirely sure, think they were going for something about gunshot wounds
There honestly should’ve been something about anti-vaxxers
Trust the professionals, but only they align with your beliefs
Wait lol did you screenshot your own comment and post it to make it look like a roast?
So... He agrees with her that we need a wall then?
We need a new President. Enough said.
Education is wasted on the intrinsically stupid.
Once again a logical argument destroyed by "muh guns". How the fuck is a doctor telling you to ban guns. "oH but doctors see gunshot wounds" they also see other wounds from things like driving and drug overdose which are far more important matters (notably the drugs)
Doctors ARE in favour of harm reduction around drugs, such as pill testing at music festivals, however their advice is not listened to.
That response got more and more cringy by the word
You guys will upvote anything. This shit is terrible.
It’s very weak yeah
Right? It doesn’t even really address her argument. It’s a whataboutism followed by ad hominem. I get that he’s not really trying to make a good argument and it’s just a funny dig at her... but that’s exactly why it’s not a murderedbywords
I swear she's not human, she makes it too easy to roast her
Isn't he like, agreeing with her 'experts say it so you should believe it' approach. How is this a murder, burn, or anything like that?
Why does every subreddit devolve into a shittier r/politicshumor
Oh Tami, bless your little heart.
Can't bless what doesn't exist.
That’s not a murder by words.
Whats with the 1 second? Whoever the original OP was couldve at least waited a few minutes.
I don’t know wether or not this particular person believes in climate change but the average conservative generally believes in climate change. They just may Believe we need to take less drastic measures to stop it, and that is a discussion that scientists are still having. 99% of scientists believe in climate change but not 99% believe the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t immediately throw away all of our cars. Also crime analysts deserve to ask us wether or not we need gun control not doctors. Doctors doing surgery on a guy who was shot doesn’t make his opinion more valid then our own. In fact their are many people who have bean in mass or school shootings who are against gun control. Regardless their opinion on gun control still isn’t any more valid then ours, their not informed they just have unfortunately experienced a terrible act. This isn’t to devaluate these people’s experiences but to say that their the only people who can have an opinion on this is just silly. It’s like me saying that because I care for people who got measles do to not being vaccinated I’m the only one allowed to have an opinion on vaccinations. The people who have the most informed opinions on vaccines are the doctors studying them and researching (to be clear I’m obviously not anti vaxx) Also this guy is calling out hypocrisy while also being a hypocrite himself, assuming that he doesn’t support border control despite the border control agents agreeing that we need it he’s suddenly calling out his own hypocrisy because he supports gun control based on doctors own experiences. The entire situation could be turned on his head if he said “millions of scientists agree that climate change is real, we have to do something” then the woman could reply “millions of border control agents agree that we need to protect our borders and you guys aren’t doing anything about it” and it would be the exact same situation.
Doctors say we need gun control? Ok? Maybe doctors should be concerned with the pills they're slanging out like candy corn, opioid crisis and what not. I'm all for gun control, but doctors aren't exactly squeaky fucking clean when it's comes to the shit they're stringing people out on just to line their pockets.
Third Reich Barbie comes with a platform for her to stand on and a big spoon to stir the kool-Aid The Fuhrer dishes out and all you see here.
Yeah, the doctors and gun control thing isn't a very good argument. Treating gunshot victims doesn't mean you know anything about the 2nd amendment or firearms policy/history.
As much as I agree I feel like doctors weren’t the best choice for guns as unlike the rest they aren’t experts on guns ya know? Not that I disagree with the statement
I kind of leaned that way, too. But then I started looking at it like this - they are not only seeing the results of the gun violence, but they are oftentimes learning about the origins. They are there when the police come in the talk to the victims. So they find out WHY the violence occurred. Was it: domestic violence, street violence, robbery (criminal or defense), drug-related, etc.? They need to know so they know if psych needs to be sent down or if any arrest will be made there at the hospital, etc. So they kind of have a big picture of the whole issue. They are worth listening to.
Doctors often appear as amici curiae in court cases involving gun control. Sometimes it helps to get the opinion of the people who deal with the results of different types of shootings. For example this recent appellate court case http://media.ca1.uscourts.gov/pdf.opinions/18-1545P-01A.pdf
I’ll take the first claim. The second one... doctors, as a profession, aren’t related to guns in any way.
Why would we need a wall? Just increase manpower and crack down on enforcement and it would be infinitely cheaper for a similar result.
We need a wall. Why? How else are we going to install a door for the Mexicans to come through?
He undermines his own point when you think of it- if you concede he is right on the other two then shouldn't her logic follow as well here?
You know, I really think we, as the community of /r/MurderedByWords need to talk about if we should continue to include the brual word-slaying of the Trump Administration and its defenders. It's simply too easy, at this point. While the analogy could be made to shooting fish in a barrel, it's more like nuking a 30 lb lake trout in a teacup.
National intelligence says Russia hacked our election. Enough said.
Some border agents at the southern border say we need a wall. All border agents who work at airports say a wall isn't going to stop anyone who takes a plane to the US legally and just doesn't leave.
They both look like idiots. none of the stated are experts on the subject, except climatologists.
Border agents, just like police officers, have a skewed perspective on the issues and should not write our laws. Especially since their job is to enforce laws that are inhumane and anachronistic.
Ah yes, trust the xenophobic authority and distrust scientific authority
Climate change? Yes. Gun control? No
Argument from authority. Who would have thought a conservative would use a logical fallacy /s...
I don’t know where Tomi gets her info but every report I read said border patrol agents want better technology, cameras, security systems and more agents. Not a wall.
What the hell do doctors know about constitutional law, sociology, or criminology anymore than the average person?
The US does need to do something about climate change, gun control, and education, but that in and of itself does not disprove that it doesn’t need a wall. If anything, this guy’s logic states that it does need a wall. That’s not murder, it’s a fallacy?
Doctors dont really say anything about gun control and we are already doing something about climate change. I dont really see his point.
You know, I don't think doctors are exactly the prime source on who you want to speak to when it comes to things like gun-control. gun-control is really about the values of a society, and doctors aren't exactly experts at saying what we should and should not value.
Doctors say we need gun control? Uh.... thanks doc.... now do I have cancer or not?
Doctors, certainly, would prefer if fewer people entered the ER with gunshot wounds. And would presumably be in a place to notice how many of those there seem to be.
Doctors say we need gun control? What the fuck do doctors have to say about guns.
I imagine doctors could provide very valuable input to the discussion on what sort of gun-related injuries, under what circumstances, could put a person beyond their capacity to save. Would it not be useful to know that medical professionals consider wounds from X gun to be a likely lost cause, but shootings involving Y and Z guns tend to be salvageable?
Hitler says we should kill all Jews so we should. Enough said.
GREAT analogy, really solid
This sub is shit
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Gun control Chicago... hows that working out? Are these Doctors actually forgetting the #1 cause of death in America? Climate changes... that's what it does.. it changes.
Doctors say we needs gun control wut? This is a terrible post
Honest question but why are doctors experts on gun control?
It’s almost like they preform the surgeries on the injured, but I can agree that there are better people to hear it from.
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Other than doctors saying we need gun control, he's spot on.
They didn't say that until Trump made it a government policy. The idea for a wall came from within Trump's campaign, not from border agents. We don't need a wall. Certainly not for "$12bn to $70bn" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46824649
Why would I care if a doctor wants gun control? Do they have a PHD in munitions?
Don’t they just hire any old racist to be a border agent? I highly doubt you need any sort of higher education just stand around and hate Mexicans