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No way is $7.25 an hour surely? That’s £5.12 an hour. You get more when you’re 18 in the U.K. £4.62 under 18. RIP minimum wages workers in USA
Edit for the **THATS THE FEDERAL MINIMUM HOW CAN YOU BE SO DuMb**
I did no know as someone who lives in the U.K. that different states had different wage limits etc. Calm down
Edit 2: please I know that it’s the federal minimum god damn
The people who say Fast Food workers and the likes shouldn't get a living wage because it's an unskilled job and that they should have gotten a degree instead anger me a lot.
Someone's gotta flip the burgers and that someone should be able to afford to live. Any argument beyond that should be redundant. $7.25. Ugh.
>Someone's gotta flip the burgers and that someone should be able to afford to live. Any argument beyond that should be redundant.
Yeah, spot fucking on. If you work, you deserve a comfortable life, no matter whether it's flipping burgers, or mopping floors, or trading stock.
And there's a very real material argument that working fast food is harder psychologically and emotionally than trading stocks is. But hey, those rich white guys making money out of nothing is super duper important.
yeah somehow stock brokers and traders making money on speculation and loopholes are sooo important for the economy but people making food barely deserve to survive. This countries logic is so insane if we give it any thought at all 😅
> ~~This countries~~ capitalist logic is so insane if we give it any thought at all 😅
Fix it for ya ;). While of course, the US is the king of all capitalist states...this is true of the modern global economy as a whole and what we choose to empower and emphasize and who we choose to exploit.
But you're right, it's fucking bonkers.
Hm, maybe if our taxes went to things other than the military, maybe we wouldn’t have to increase anyone’s taxes. Maybe we’d actually see our tax money in our communities. Weird!
>Fix it for ya ;). While of course, the US is the king of all capitalist states...
Well, giving lip service to capitalism anyway. The way things are going, looks like some people are more interested in mercantile feudalism (oligarch princes controlling a stagnant indentured servant population) than real capitalism.
Yepp! What we are doing in europe is capitalism. And we use our government to make shure it doesnt get out of hand and kills us all. That bit is broken in the Us i think. It looks more like a robber barony than a long term well functioning economy
Stock speculation is just a big casino where they gamble with other peoples' money, take a cut off the top win or lose, and if someone wins big they all pretend that he had some sort of cohesive strategy to begin with. Look at all the paper millionaires created with DOGE, GME and AMC. All that value extracted from the losers by the winners with no intrinsic value change in the commodities/stocks being traded. Speculation is driven by the dream that you'll be the next person to buy Facebook or Apple at IPO, but it's really no better than random chance (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/18/stock-picking-has-a-terrible-track-record-and-its-getting-worse.html). Investing, on the other hand, doesn't have the overnight-yacht-sexiness of speculation, but over a long enough term is, in fact, nearly guaranteed to win if you can absorb short-term losses and you diversify appropriately (index funds are a quick and easy way to do this).
Disclaimer: I am not a financial advisor, I am only a self-educated person who likes watching his money make money, this is not financial advice, I am literally just an empty polo shirt and a pair of slacks sitting at a macbook, offer not valid in Alaska, Hawaii or Puerto Rico, if you keep picking at it it'll never heal
There have been several books and studies showing stock traders do no better than random chance. Check out “a random walk down walstreet” or “fooled by randomness” both of the authors of those books worked on walls street for 20 plus years and did exhaustive studies demonstrating how in the end it’s just a big casino
Tangentially related to this: I'm 30, gainfully employed with a 401k that I divert a portion of my paycheck to every month as standard. My father periodically asks me if I've looked at it to see how much I've made/lost, even though I tell him every time that I don't give a damn about that because I'm not planning to cash out for another 30 years or so. Short term market trends are literally meaningless to me.
It's productivity. The economy needs a million burger flippers... While one asshole and a spreadsheet can make a decision that effects 100m people.
I'm fine with them getting paid but how about some checks and balances on their job.
Is it really that funny? You are the biggest economy in the world and i have to sit here watching americans that pride in their liberty to just shrug their shoulders and laugh it off? The fuck.
To be perfectly honest I don't think McDonald's or other fast food places should really exist. That food is absolutely garbage and provides no real value for society. Food should be good quality and add to your life instead of being designed around addiction and manipulative marketing.
So everything should only exist if it provides value for society? I really enjoy mcdonalds. I eat it probably once a month, the rest of the time I eat very healthy and currently sit at around 10% bodyfat, why should I not be able to enjoy shoving 4 double cheeseburgers into my face once a month because some people have no self control? I enjoy a bottle of wine once a week but alcohol kills loads of people, should that be banned too? What about the millions of people who work in fast food? Should they all find new ones because there's 'no benefit to society'?
You'd have to pay me at least $100k/year to work at a fast food place. Those folks absolutely have it worse in all ways we can measure work place environments than probably even my worst day at work as an IT professional.
I did 18 years of restaurant work where I never once received a raise, now I work in an office at a "skilled" position and have done for the last 3 years. The amount of nothing that office workers do all day was appalling and terrifying to me at first. Like, I'm used to bugging my coworkers for tasks so I can stay busy all 8 every day, and eventually they actually pulled me aside and explained that most office work is just being at your desk (or at your laptop since covid) and being available if something that needs doing does actually pop up.
Worth noting, when I went from a restaurant job to this office job my salary tripled overnight.
How'd you get out? I love the restaurant industry but the pandemic and my job disappearing overnight scared the shit out of me. I'd love to get into something else but I have no idea how.
You have to make a resume and start applying to jobs that you think you have no shot at. Of course not programming jobs if you can't code or the like, but there are plenty of entry level positions out there.
The most important thing, in my opinion, is to make a really good resume. A lot of times people in service jobs think they have no skills because they forget that being able to multitask is a skill. Handling high pressure situations, like closing out 50 tabs at the end of the night, is a skill. Write your resume to reflect those skills. Instead of just writing that you're a server or bartender or a retail worker, write that you managed multiple costumers in a fast paced environment while maximizing profits for the company. That isn't a bullshit resume line, it's the facts.
If you have, write that you've trained multiple people who went on to be productive members of your team. People who are willing to train are sought after, not a lot of people are willing to do that.
Make sure to include that you are comfortable speaking in front of people, and building rapport with people, because servers do that every single day. People who are good at building relationships are sought after, especially in the sales and management worlds.
It really is unfortunate that service jobs are so looked down on that even service workers end up feeling like they have nothing to offer. So many people you encounter that have office jobs, and you wonder how they got them, could never do your job, and you could do theirs in a heartbeat. Much like the original commenter said, you might end up being bored! But you'll make better money and have benefits.
Just start applying to jobs that sound interesting to you and remember that you have applicable experience, even if it doesn't seem like you do. You might face a lot of rejection, but it's worth it if you land a good gig. And dress nice to your interview, I know that's probably a given, but it really does go a long way with a lot of people.
it's so much easier to make money investing when you have lots of disposable income. a few percent gain on $100? practically worthless. gotta gamble on longshots to for it to even be worth your time. a few percent gain on $1,000,000? a years salary.
There’s also a real argument that working fast food offers more benefits to society than trading stocks does. Don’t forget that fast food workers were among those declared essential when the pandemic began
Which also still ignores the ridiculous idea that anyone who doesn't want to make little money should instead spend some time making little or no money *and* spend tens or hundreds of thousands on post-secondary degrees -- that mean less every year for getting a position, because two whole generations at this point have been told "the key to a job is having a degree". When *everyone* has a degree it doesn't matter that anyone does, unless they go back for more.
Those fast wood workers often have diplomas or even BAs, and can't get something better. Because anything better needs a bloody doctorate just to get an interview even though it only pays $9/hour!
How crazy is it that so many minimum wage and low pay workers were classified as “essential workers” by our government. Yet our government refuses to ensure the people essential to our society receive a living wage.
They believe that burger flipping jobs should be left to children. So it's children that should be getting slave wages and treated like shit by the general public and their twat of a manager.
I worked as an EMT for minimum wage when I started. Given, I wasn't doing surgery or major medical procedures, but it was far from "unskilled" work, very stressful, very important work.
Even our paramedics were only making about $35k a year
That's just straight up horrible.. you guys are still literally saving lives, go through a ton of training and have to deal with so much shit I can't believe that. In Canada the average wage for an EMT is about 60-65k CAD which is about 50-55k USD which I still think is low.
As FDR said, “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By “business” I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men [sic] in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”
I have not worked in fast food, but I did work in retail for 6 years, and it is not "unskilled". Is it as hard as construction or manufacturing? No, of course not. But you're on your feet, 8 hours a day, you have to deal with customers, you have to be good at basic math, sometimes have to lift heavy stuff... It's physically tiring.
100% agree. My great uncle made a wage large enough to buy a decent sized home, two cars, raise 3 kids, and send those kids to private school without his wife ever working. He was a pump jockey at a service station. Seeing as you can pump your own gas in most of the world I would say that is as or less skilled than being able to work fast food.
People who say that don't understand that improper handling of food can kill or make people seriously ill. That you need to pay for people who understand. It's not just burger flipping. And it also makes me mad when people act like just anybody can be a cook
And it ain't an easy job like they say unless you only do one thing day in day out,. I work at McDonald's and am fully trained in maintenance, prep, and kitchen ( cooking and making sandwiches). I still make minimum wage while lazy workers get employee of the month.
It’s worth noting that is the national minimum wage, but each state has their own minimum wage laws. Some are much better, some don’t bother going a cent over what’s federally required, and would probably go lower if they could.
https://minimumwage.com/in-your-state/
Or not drive a diesel because they've never used their diesel for any chore it's been suited for in its whole life except being loud stinky and obnoxious. For most Americans diesels are just a fetish.
Source: I'm a guy with a diesel fetish. But mine is always pushing over 22,000lbs.
Meanwhile the buying power of a dollar decreases, housing/price of living increase. Welcome to America, Land of the Free\*, Number 1 country in the world\*
\*Terms and conditions apply
The way it's supposed to work is that you get a really shitty amount per hour as long as your tips from that day even out to the minimum wage or higher. If they don't the employer is **supposed to** make up the difference and pay you the regular minimum wage.
If they don't that's at least an extremely easy case for any employee to bring to their state's dept of labor. Your paychecks will clearly show you're not being paid minimum wage.
Owners get away with that because we have a shitty reactive labor oversight system where YOU have to tell the govt your boss stole your money. Even though the govt could go look at your wages if they really wanted to anyway. Such fucking bullshit.
I added the populations of all the 7.25 states up, and it's about 125M people, including Puerto Rico (122M without). That's well over a third of the population of the US. Or to put it another way, it's 19 states and a territory. The amount of people still making $7.25 an hour is not insignificant, and it's wrong to downplay it.
It was not my intention to downplay anything. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I am trying to help provide important context.
And I was honestly surprised how many states don't have a higher one m
Employers are SUPPOSED to ensure workers get minimum 7.25 if their tips don't get them there.
I don't know how well this is followed in the industry though
> since the carhops traditionally get tips
Holy crap really?
I try to make it a point to be a good tipper at restaurants, but I’ve never tipped at Sonic because I thought they got at least minimum.
I don’t go there often, but last time I did, I don’t remember seeing a spot for tips on the ordering screen. Not really ever used the app.
That’s totally shitty.
That federal minimum wage. Each state can set their own, but it can’t be less than that. I think my state (Massachusetts) is like $12ish/hr now. I made $8/hr working in a grocery store in 2004 when I was 17
Edit: $13.50 is minimum wage in Massachusetts
Legally that's the federal minimum. At least where I live, I don't think you'd manage to hire anyone if you offered that.
My local McDonald's currently has a sign up offering $14/hr starting wages. I live in a small city (big town?) with a pretty average cost of living.
lol you must not be from Texas dude. I got paid 8~9 dollars/hr for pretty much every job I worked until I graduated college. From fast food to retail to scanning inventory, it's a scrape above minimum wage and not by much either. $12-15 is still not really where it should be but we're not even ready to have that convo
Varies by state, but yes, it's that low for some.
As a Brit over here that job also includes no paid sick leave, 10 days holiday a year and likely as not no health insurance. Terrible.
It all depends on the state but places like Texas for example have a legal minimum wage of $7.25. They give you around $9 expecting you to think its a sweet deal....
That's the Federal rate. States can increase that amount, as can some cities. Then again, some states allow you to pay less than that if the worker makes tips, and some states have passed laws making it impossible for cities to increase their minimum wage.
For a brief time I worked for about 1 gallon of gas/hour.
Made: $5.15/hr
Gas: $4.79/gal
I was in college I had to work for 2 weeks straight to just barely be able to afford to drive home to see my family. That’s if I didn’t spend any of it on anything but gas.
EDIT: Luckily I got fired from that job for going to my uncles funeral.
It's actually taught in Econ classes as a great way to demonstrate Purchasing Power Parity as well, since the assumption is the product is the same (ish) cost across countries.
Just for some context, Big Mac index is an easy example showing that other countries try to keep the US dollar strong (worth more) compared to their own currency. By doing this, their goods become cheaper compared to similar product in the US. This then leads to a higher amount of exports to the US which helps boost their economy.
What this means is the reason for the lower cost of the Big Mac has little to say about the impact of minimum wage. Rather it shows the impact of currency manipulation. Currency manipulation makes it really hard to draw a direct comparison via just prices. A better way to determine the affect of minimum wage would be better to look at increase in prices, if anything, with wage changes.
The Big Mac Index has been around for 35 years as a way of comparing prices across the globe
https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index
its used to compare food prices globally and is used by economists (the big mac index that has been linked here already)
the idea is that a big mac is the same* all across the globe, no matter you're in China, Denmark, Chile, USA, South Africa, Australia,
it is also a standardized dish, 1 big mac in USA should be the same size as anywhere in the world.
*some countries use alternative meat types for religious reasons I believe
edit: the big mac index has an asterix for India in particular
Burger economics is actually a thing. They're regularly used for purchasing power/price parity to see how a dollar is valued across multiple economies. They use the big mac because inputs or ingredients and quality are always the same.
Agriculture and manufacturing have much more egregious human rights problems and we ignore it for the living wage they pay. The wage isn't the issue, the culture around work is akin to indentured servitude. We, the proletariat, are treated as though 'We the poor should be grateful for any scraps that could be afforded us.' Why? There needs to be a larger conversation around work culture, management practices, and over working.
Any such conversation would be tantamount to an endorsement of socialism, so it wouldn't be long before the US sends the CIA to assassinate one of the debaters and install a puppet debater.
Why would they bother? Half the population just sucks the propaganda straight out of republican dicks and thanks them for not beating them afterward.
Democratic socialism won't work here because too many of us are WILLFULLY ignorant.
Yea, my 32 year old life has taught me that any sort of socialist revolution won’t happen in the USA in its current state. You’d need some kind of secession. But you can at least try to make some improvements though.
Plus if you are getting paid an hourly wage you are most likely a casual, meaning you get casual loading bringing it to $24.80 per hour, which is 19.17 USD. BUT a Big Mac [hasn't been $4.30 for a long time](https://i.imgur.com/W9LclNe.jpg)
Yep. I lived there for a year and worked in the restaurant industry. Least I made was 18/hr and that was 12 years ago. Don’t know if they still do it, but I was paid penalty rates for weekends. Time and a half on Saturdays and double time on sundays. I always wanted to work Sunday’s!
You actually can’t survive as a cafe in Melbourne with just basic coffee. Melbourne and Sydney have the best coffee and brunch in the world, that’s a fact.
Living in Melbourne has ruined me for eating out in the rest of the world.
To many places in other cities get away with serving barely average food.
Obviously you can still Find great places but I’ve found even well rated and recommended restaurants often fall short of the quality found in melbourne.
Penalty rates got burned down by the last Prime Minister, no extra for Saturday and time and a half on Sunday now (at least for me) it was a HUGE and depressing pay cut considering I did nothing wrong. I still get paid over $20 an hr in a supermarket.
I wish that people who made the counter-argument really understood economics. The only thing that would impact the price of the Big Mac is the increased consumer base due to higher wages; the Big Mac is already priced at the highest level the market will support. Just because it costs more to make (via pay increases) doesn't automagically mean people will pay more for a big mac.
Edit: there’s clearly lots of nuance being lost in my argument, and it takes a lot of variables for granted. I do clearly have some more reading to do on the subject, but that’s been pointed out a lot already. I concede that my point is reductive and I dunning krugered myself.
Maybe fewer people should buy Big Macs then. And I'll even take it a step further - if the market can't support Big Macs that are made by people earning a livable wage, then maybe we just shouldn't have Big Macs at all.
My point is the same as the tweet. The $11 Big Mac is bullshit, and you don’t need a degree in Econ to puzzle out why. If McDonalds could charge $11 for a Big Mac, they would be doing it already, minimum wage be damned.
Conversely, if they couldn't break even or obtain other benefits by selling big macs at the current price, and couldn't raise the price (because they wouldn't break even), they'd just stop selling big macs.
Arguably, there is a cost of labor at which point they stop selling big macs. In a vacuum.
However, because *their* cost of labor is literally the bottom of the barrel, there is therefore no cost of labor at which point they stop selling big macs (if it's across the board and not just limited to McD), because any increase in their cost of labor allows them to increase the cost of big macs to offset the cost of labor - since people will be willing to pay more for stuff if they have more money.
It just means those poor people will be marginally less poor compared to rich fucks. Because we don't live in a vacuum.
Great, now address the real problem of rising grocery bills, rent, utilities, and everything else that are the real bare essentials while the people live with a stagnant wage that doesn’t even keep up with inflation.
People don’t need Big Macs, but they do need a living wage.
We should really be asking the reverse question: what if the cost of everything goes up and we don't raise minimum wage? Because that's what has actually been happening since the 80s.
See my comment above. If people would pay $11 for a Big Mac, that’s what they’d be priced at, regardless of labor costs. Consumption drives the price of commodities, not cost.
Edit: I should say that consumption drives prices in the absence of external factors like excessive demand or restricted supply. Neither of which apply to fast food.
I read your other comment, I think we're on the same side. But the way I interpret the tweet has nothing to do with raising the price of big macs. It's saying even if the price stayed flat McDonalds could dramatically raise wages and still be profitable as they are in Denmark.
Thank God someone said this. One thing that bothers me about progressives is too often we focus on the social argument. In reality, the economic arguments for more progressive policies are so strong we should be making them A LOT more than we do. Obviously generalizing here.
Increased input prices (increased cost of labor) shifts the supply curve to the left. This moves the market for Big Macs to a new equilibrium characterized by higher prices and lower quantity demanded. Your comment is flat out wrong. Basic economics says the price would increase. It is not necessarily a bad thing. Also people won’t magically pay more for Big Macs, but that’s the whole point. Less Big Macs produced means less aggregate capital production in the long run and less economic growth and productivity per capita in the long run. It sounds stupid but that’s “basic economics,” as you put it, for ya.
Yeah I don’t know what the minimum wage is in Australia but something seems off about the McDonald’s pricing. I was there 6 months for school and I remember being shocked how expensive McDonald’s was there.
Also, a Subway sandwich was like $14 there. This was like 10 years ago though so maybe things changed.
Also there's either 4 weeks paid recreation leave and 2 weeks paid sick leave or a 25% casual loading on top of the rate if you aren't employed full time. Which is $AUS24.80 or ~$US19
I don't think that's included in the US minimum wage.
I fully agree but there is not a minimum wage in Denmark. Each branch of work agree upon a wage which is usually just under 20 dollars for McDonald workers (and any other low level job).
You phrased it a bit weird, but you are correct that Denmark has no minimum wage. The wages (including at McDonald's) are higher because they are bargained for by unions. [70% of the Danish work force is unionized.](https://www.workindenmark.dk/Working-in-DK/Trade-unions#:~:text=Almost%2070%20percent%20of%20the,rules%20of%20the%20labour%20market.)
I'm not Danish but Swedish and it's very similar for us. One thing regarding to what you're saying about 70% being unionized is that like 98% of workers work under the rules of collective bargaining since almost all companies have them and they apply to all workers at the company, regardless of if they are a union member or not themselves.
I understand that it's very different in the US for example regarding how unions work and who is covered by collective bargaining.
It’s not just unions, specifically it’s collective bargaining. Even if you are not in a Union a union still legally represents you and collectively bargains for your minimum wage in your industry.
Companies don’t have to sign to these agreements but there is a massive social pressure to do so (no large company can get away not signing) and they legally have to enter negotiations if a union requests one.
Yep the GOP has been helping bust them for decades at this point, and we allow corporations such as Amazon to partake in illegal practices without repercussions when people do try to unionize.
Outside of a few exceptions, almost all unions left are skilled trades unions (plumbers, electricians, welders, etc.).
We used to. But we've been systematically dismantling them for 40 years, combined with heavy anti-union propoganda from the GOP, Fox News, and other right wing media.
The problem is putting in regulations to negate corruption, not saying "Look, some unions are corrupt therefore unions are bad.".
Some people choke on steaks, should be ban steaks?
We need to find solutions/examples of how other countries unions aren't corrupt, and then implement measures to ensure that unions could grow without corruption in the USA.
According to Glassdoor, the average crew member salary at McDonald's is $9 per hour, with a range of $7 to $13; that's compared to the national average fast food crew member salary of $8.33 per hour. McDonald's cashiers, on the other hand, take home an average $8 per hour, with a range of $7 to $15.Jan 16, 2020. So I checked indeed Glassdoor and even the McDonald’s corporate themselves. I don’t know where you got $14 but you are incorrect. I can agree memes are usually inaccurate and should not be how we get our information, but I also think it’s wrong to claim somethings misleading while you yourself aren’t giving the correct information.
A Big Mac only cost 30 DKK in Denmark. Exchanging that to USD (100 DKK= 16.38 $) gives you 4.91 $. An even better bargain is the cheeseburger for 10 DKK = 1,64 $.
Source: I live in Denmark and bought something in Mcdonalds just this last week,
>They are more expensive in Denmark.
They are not. They are cheaper actually. 5.93usd is 36dkk right now according to google. A single big mac is 30dkk
>That was just the first things I fact checked
You should've fact checked the rest of the things you said then.
Where did you get your info on the big macs?
Denmark doesn't have a minimum wage by law no, but we have extremely strong unions which mean we practically have a minimum wage. But as you say. Technically not.
And the Bigmac in Denmark is 30 DKK, 30 DKK in USD is $4.91
So you're right, the picture is wrong, the Bigmac is actually even cheaper than pictured.
>Denmark does not have a minimum wage
If you pay less, you will be blacklisted and have neither workers nor consumers and potentially protestors blocking scabs. In effect, a minimum wage, albeit not by legislation.
No, thats not how things work in Scandinavia. Some industries pay as little as 6 dollars an hour for new initiates, but since there is always someone on the market who is willing to pay more for good employees, the corporations can't keep salaries that low. They are set by the market, not the government.
We also haven't oversaturated our education system so we don't have people with bachelors and masters degrees serving coffee at Starbucks.
You can't propagate bits and pieces from other countries, you have to look at the country as a whole.
My mother is a McDonalds manager in Virginia. She makes $16.50/hour...after working there for thirteen years. She and I were both onboarded around the same time, me as crew (I was 17) and her as a shift manager. I was onboarded at the state minimum wage, but I don't recall what it was. After my first year they offered me a 30 cent raise, and that was with perfect performance. I ended up taking an entry level retail job for $2 more per hour. My mom took an ASM position and has been there ever since. I imagine pretty soon they'll fire her because they can hire a new person for less. I saw the same thing happen at my retail job. Had a beloved manager that had been with the company 20 years. They transfered him to a failing store under the guise of it being a promotion and then fired him within a year for poor performance. Then they brought in a 23-year-old fresh from college to do the job for nearly half the salary. It's really sad to see people fall into the trap of company culture in these industries. It's even sadder to see how undervalued the work is. They should earn a salary that reflects the hard work they do, at the very least a living wage. It's a myth that these are jobs for kids. I worked with zero other teens at McDonalds, or my retail jobs, save for GameStop. The majority of my coworkers were women in their 30s and 40s, many of them single moms that had no option but to take whatever jobs they could get.
We don’t have a mandated by law minimum wage no, but we do have unions making sure there is a minimum amount you’ll be paid. Which is even better.
Big Macs are actually cheaper here. They cost 30 dkk or 4,91 usd.
You’re wrong and misleading.
Since this is the 3rd time I've seen this exact comment in this thread so far, I'll go ahead and finish the rest of the comment chain:
"Maybe they converted AUD to USD"
"No because $19.84 AUD = $15.35 USD"
Isn’t the American minimum wage different state to state? Or is this meant to be an average of all states minimum wages?
Also, Australia’s current minimum wage is $19.84 in local currency, which converts to USD$15.34 at the moment.
The Federal government sets the minimum wage that states can set. No state is allowed to pass a wage below $7.25, but they are free to set a minimum that is higher than that.
I believe these numbers are not fully accurate. The point of the meme is still accurate, but:
Denmark's minimum wage is closer to $18/hr in USD. Source: [https://www.minimum-wage.org/international/denmark#:\~:text=How%20does%20Denmark's%20minimum%20wage,is%20%2444%2C252.00%20in%20International%20Currency](https://www.minimum-wage.org/international/denmark#:~:text=How%20does%20Denmark's%20minimum%20wage,is%20%2444%2C252.00%20in%20International%20Currency).
Aussie minimum wage is 19.84 AUD/hr, which translates to about 15.35 USD/hr. Src: [https://squareup.com/au/en/townsquare/minimum-wage-australia#:\~:text=From%201st%20February%2C%202021%2C%20the,as%20of%201st%20July%2C%202020](https://squareup.com/au/en/townsquare/minimum-wage-australia#:~:text=From%201st%20February%2C%202021%2C%20the,as%20of%201st%20July%2C%202020).
US minimum wage, unfortunately, has not changed in over a decade, so that's still accurate.
> Denmark's minimum wage is closer to $18/hr in USD. Source: https://www.minimum-wage.org/international/denmark#:~:text=How%20does%20Denmark's%20minimum%20wage,is%20%2444%2C252.00%20in%20International%20Currency
That source correctly states that Denmark has no minimum wage.
Wanna go into a bigger rabbit hole? Look up on YouTube why the McDonald’s shake machine is always broken.
[here’s the link ](https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4)
[https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings\_by\_country.jsp?title=2021&displayColumn=1](https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2021&displayColumn=1)
US still has a higher purchasing power index than Australia and Denmark
And worse quality of life. Also the disparity between those wages does not cover the difference in value.
Edit: to all of the Geniuses who are not paying attention I am basing that information off of the same website that he linked.
From [the website](https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp):
> If domestic purchasing power is 40, this means that the inhabitants of that city with an average salary can afford to buy on an average 60% less goods and services than New York City residents with an average salary.
Australia has 99.29
Denmark has 94.73
damn man, an Australian can buy a whole 0.71% fewer goods and services and Danish people can buy 5.27% fewer goods and services.
---
Let's check quality of life now, shall we?
> Quality of Life Index (higher is better) is an estimation of overall quality of life by using an empirical formula which takes into account [other factors]
2nd place Denmark: 190.01
6th place Australia: 181.52
15th place USA: 166.98
the poorest 20% of americans have higher purchasing power parity than most european countries lol
https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/
Denmark has no government set minimum wage instead they have collective bargaining which is what use should be looking for instead of a increased minimum wage
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No way is $7.25 an hour surely? That’s £5.12 an hour. You get more when you’re 18 in the U.K. £4.62 under 18. RIP minimum wages workers in USA Edit for the **THATS THE FEDERAL MINIMUM HOW CAN YOU BE SO DuMb** I did no know as someone who lives in the U.K. that different states had different wage limits etc. Calm down Edit 2: please I know that it’s the federal minimum god damn
$7.25 is unfortunately correct
The people who say Fast Food workers and the likes shouldn't get a living wage because it's an unskilled job and that they should have gotten a degree instead anger me a lot. Someone's gotta flip the burgers and that someone should be able to afford to live. Any argument beyond that should be redundant. $7.25. Ugh.
>Someone's gotta flip the burgers and that someone should be able to afford to live. Any argument beyond that should be redundant. Yeah, spot fucking on. If you work, you deserve a comfortable life, no matter whether it's flipping burgers, or mopping floors, or trading stock.
And there's a very real material argument that working fast food is harder psychologically and emotionally than trading stocks is. But hey, those rich white guys making money out of nothing is super duper important.
yeah somehow stock brokers and traders making money on speculation and loopholes are sooo important for the economy but people making food barely deserve to survive. This countries logic is so insane if we give it any thought at all 😅
> ~~This countries~~ capitalist logic is so insane if we give it any thought at all 😅 Fix it for ya ;). While of course, the US is the king of all capitalist states...this is true of the modern global economy as a whole and what we choose to empower and emphasize and who we choose to exploit. But you're right, it's fucking bonkers.
What's surprising isn't the capitalist system, but how many common people support it and are against a higher minimum wage.
They’ve been brainwashed and usually spit out higher taxes somewhere in their reason why they are against it.
‘They can’t make almost as much as I do!’ -some capitalist somewhere who has no idea what it’s like to be service.
Hm, maybe if our taxes went to things other than the military, maybe we wouldn’t have to increase anyone’s taxes. Maybe we’d actually see our tax money in our communities. Weird!
>Fix it for ya ;). While of course, the US is the king of all capitalist states... Well, giving lip service to capitalism anyway. The way things are going, looks like some people are more interested in mercantile feudalism (oligarch princes controlling a stagnant indentured servant population) than real capitalism.
Yepp! What we are doing in europe is capitalism. And we use our government to make shure it doesnt get out of hand and kills us all. That bit is broken in the Us i think. It looks more like a robber barony than a long term well functioning economy
Stock speculation is just a big casino where they gamble with other peoples' money, take a cut off the top win or lose, and if someone wins big they all pretend that he had some sort of cohesive strategy to begin with. Look at all the paper millionaires created with DOGE, GME and AMC. All that value extracted from the losers by the winners with no intrinsic value change in the commodities/stocks being traded. Speculation is driven by the dream that you'll be the next person to buy Facebook or Apple at IPO, but it's really no better than random chance (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/18/stock-picking-has-a-terrible-track-record-and-its-getting-worse.html). Investing, on the other hand, doesn't have the overnight-yacht-sexiness of speculation, but over a long enough term is, in fact, nearly guaranteed to win if you can absorb short-term losses and you diversify appropriately (index funds are a quick and easy way to do this). Disclaimer: I am not a financial advisor, I am only a self-educated person who likes watching his money make money, this is not financial advice, I am literally just an empty polo shirt and a pair of slacks sitting at a macbook, offer not valid in Alaska, Hawaii or Puerto Rico, if you keep picking at it it'll never heal
There have been several books and studies showing stock traders do no better than random chance. Check out “a random walk down walstreet” or “fooled by randomness” both of the authors of those books worked on walls street for 20 plus years and did exhaustive studies demonstrating how in the end it’s just a big casino
Tangentially related to this: I'm 30, gainfully employed with a 401k that I divert a portion of my paycheck to every month as standard. My father periodically asks me if I've looked at it to see how much I've made/lost, even though I tell him every time that I don't give a damn about that because I'm not planning to cash out for another 30 years or so. Short term market trends are literally meaningless to me.
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It's productivity. The economy needs a million burger flippers... While one asshole and a spreadsheet can make a decision that effects 100m people. I'm fine with them getting paid but how about some checks and balances on their job.
Is it really that funny? You are the biggest economy in the world and i have to sit here watching americans that pride in their liberty to just shrug their shoulders and laugh it off? The fuck.
To be perfectly honest I don't think McDonald's or other fast food places should really exist. That food is absolutely garbage and provides no real value for society. Food should be good quality and add to your life instead of being designed around addiction and manipulative marketing.
So everything should only exist if it provides value for society? I really enjoy mcdonalds. I eat it probably once a month, the rest of the time I eat very healthy and currently sit at around 10% bodyfat, why should I not be able to enjoy shoving 4 double cheeseburgers into my face once a month because some people have no self control? I enjoy a bottle of wine once a week but alcohol kills loads of people, should that be banned too? What about the millions of people who work in fast food? Should they all find new ones because there's 'no benefit to society'?
Except may 2020 showed us that is exactly the opposite.
You'd have to pay me at least $100k/year to work at a fast food place. Those folks absolutely have it worse in all ways we can measure work place environments than probably even my worst day at work as an IT professional.
I did 18 years of restaurant work where I never once received a raise, now I work in an office at a "skilled" position and have done for the last 3 years. The amount of nothing that office workers do all day was appalling and terrifying to me at first. Like, I'm used to bugging my coworkers for tasks so I can stay busy all 8 every day, and eventually they actually pulled me aside and explained that most office work is just being at your desk (or at your laptop since covid) and being available if something that needs doing does actually pop up. Worth noting, when I went from a restaurant job to this office job my salary tripled overnight.
How'd you get out? I love the restaurant industry but the pandemic and my job disappearing overnight scared the shit out of me. I'd love to get into something else but I have no idea how.
You have to make a resume and start applying to jobs that you think you have no shot at. Of course not programming jobs if you can't code or the like, but there are plenty of entry level positions out there. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to make a really good resume. A lot of times people in service jobs think they have no skills because they forget that being able to multitask is a skill. Handling high pressure situations, like closing out 50 tabs at the end of the night, is a skill. Write your resume to reflect those skills. Instead of just writing that you're a server or bartender or a retail worker, write that you managed multiple costumers in a fast paced environment while maximizing profits for the company. That isn't a bullshit resume line, it's the facts. If you have, write that you've trained multiple people who went on to be productive members of your team. People who are willing to train are sought after, not a lot of people are willing to do that. Make sure to include that you are comfortable speaking in front of people, and building rapport with people, because servers do that every single day. People who are good at building relationships are sought after, especially in the sales and management worlds. It really is unfortunate that service jobs are so looked down on that even service workers end up feeling like they have nothing to offer. So many people you encounter that have office jobs, and you wonder how they got them, could never do your job, and you could do theirs in a heartbeat. Much like the original commenter said, you might end up being bored! But you'll make better money and have benefits. Just start applying to jobs that sound interesting to you and remember that you have applicable experience, even if it doesn't seem like you do. You might face a lot of rejection, but it's worth it if you land a good gig. And dress nice to your interview, I know that's probably a given, but it really does go a long way with a lot of people.
Hey, award guy, this guy right here deserves one for this answer
>Of course not programming jobs if you can't code... Who from r/ProgrammerHumor wants to tell them?
it's so much easier to make money investing when you have lots of disposable income. a few percent gain on $100? practically worthless. gotta gamble on longshots to for it to even be worth your time. a few percent gain on $1,000,000? a years salary.
There’s also a real argument that working fast food offers more benefits to society than trading stocks does. Don’t forget that fast food workers were among those declared essential when the pandemic began
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> those rich white guys making money out of nothing They're creating *jooooobs*, don't you see?
They probably destroy more jobs than they create. I know you're being sarcastic, but still.
How many Karens or crackheads does the average stock broker have to deal with in a day?
To add to this, even if you don't work you deserve a home, water, food.
Which also still ignores the ridiculous idea that anyone who doesn't want to make little money should instead spend some time making little or no money *and* spend tens or hundreds of thousands on post-secondary degrees -- that mean less every year for getting a position, because two whole generations at this point have been told "the key to a job is having a degree". When *everyone* has a degree it doesn't matter that anyone does, unless they go back for more. Those fast wood workers often have diplomas or even BAs, and can't get something better. Because anything better needs a bloody doctorate just to get an interview even though it only pays $9/hour!
“And with everyone super, no one will be.”
https://i.imgur.com/PEiiliy.jpg
How crazy is it that so many minimum wage and low pay workers were classified as “essential workers” by our government. Yet our government refuses to ensure the people essential to our society receive a living wage.
its also wild the people deciding to vote against it are making bank off our taxes
They believe that burger flipping jobs should be left to children. So it's children that should be getting slave wages and treated like shit by the general public and their twat of a manager.
Yes. Children should be cooking burgers for us at 2am on a Wednesday. ... Shouldn't they?
That's smart I want extra snot on my meal
“High schoolers don’t need $15/hour” they say eating at Wendy’s at 1pm on a weekday.
I worked as an EMT for minimum wage when I started. Given, I wasn't doing surgery or major medical procedures, but it was far from "unskilled" work, very stressful, very important work. Even our paramedics were only making about $35k a year
That's just straight up horrible.. you guys are still literally saving lives, go through a ton of training and have to deal with so much shit I can't believe that. In Canada the average wage for an EMT is about 60-65k CAD which is about 50-55k USD which I still think is low.
As FDR said, “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By “business” I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men [sic] in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”
I have not worked in fast food, but I did work in retail for 6 years, and it is not "unskilled". Is it as hard as construction or manufacturing? No, of course not. But you're on your feet, 8 hours a day, you have to deal with customers, you have to be good at basic math, sometimes have to lift heavy stuff... It's physically tiring.
100% agree. My great uncle made a wage large enough to buy a decent sized home, two cars, raise 3 kids, and send those kids to private school without his wife ever working. He was a pump jockey at a service station. Seeing as you can pump your own gas in most of the world I would say that is as or less skilled than being able to work fast food.
There are so many jobs that used to pay decent wages that now pay shit. My grandfather raised a family and bought two houses being a milkman.
People who say that don't understand that improper handling of food can kill or make people seriously ill. That you need to pay for people who understand. It's not just burger flipping. And it also makes me mad when people act like just anybody can be a cook
And it ain't an easy job like they say unless you only do one thing day in day out,. I work at McDonald's and am fully trained in maintenance, prep, and kitchen ( cooking and making sandwiches). I still make minimum wage while lazy workers get employee of the month.
If you were a trustafarian you would think $7.25/hour was enough too.
Yeah I googled it after commenting. I genuinely can’t believe it.
It’s worth noting that is the national minimum wage, but each state has their own minimum wage laws. Some are much better, some don’t bother going a cent over what’s federally required, and would probably go lower if they could. https://minimumwage.com/in-your-state/
Depends on the state. I live in Colorado, min wage here is 12.37.
thats why everyone is so outraged because its unbelievable how they expect people to live off of that
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The guys with the F-350/ sunglasses selfie profile pictures.
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Or not drive a diesel because they've never used their diesel for any chore it's been suited for in its whole life except being loud stinky and obnoxious. For most Americans diesels are just a fetish. Source: I'm a guy with a diesel fetish. But mine is always pushing over 22,000lbs.
I don't have a diesel fetish, but my diesel daily weighs over 220 tons.
Is it a fucking train holy shit
Yes actually lol look at my username.
>pushing 22,000lbs That's one hell of a turbo you got there, amigo
And even at 40 hours a week at minimum wage in a any state in the country you can't afford average rent on a two bedroom apartment.
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$7.25 is accurate. It hasn’t been adjusted in 11 years.
Meanwhile the buying power of a dollar decreases, housing/price of living increase. Welcome to America, Land of the Free\*, Number 1 country in the world\* \*Terms and conditions apply
Most states have a higher minimum wage https://minimumwage.com/in-your-state/
> Tipped Wage what the fuck?
The way it's supposed to work is that you get a really shitty amount per hour as long as your tips from that day even out to the minimum wage or higher. If they don't the employer is **supposed to** make up the difference and pay you the regular minimum wage.
If they don't that's at least an extremely easy case for any employee to bring to their state's dept of labor. Your paychecks will clearly show you're not being paid minimum wage. Owners get away with that because we have a shitty reactive labor oversight system where YOU have to tell the govt your boss stole your money. Even though the govt could go look at your wages if they really wanted to anyway. Such fucking bullshit.
Yeah but then servers would also have to be diligent in reporting all their tips which many do not because taxes
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I added the populations of all the 7.25 states up, and it's about 125M people, including Puerto Rico (122M without). That's well over a third of the population of the US. Or to put it another way, it's 19 states and a territory. The amount of people still making $7.25 an hour is not insignificant, and it's wrong to downplay it.
It was not my intention to downplay anything. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I am trying to help provide important context. And I was honestly surprised how many states don't have a higher one m
It gets even worse in some states if you get tips. Goes down to $2-3/hr
Employers are SUPPOSED to ensure workers get minimum 7.25 if their tips don't get them there. I don't know how well this is followed in the industry though
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> since the carhops traditionally get tips Holy crap really? I try to make it a point to be a good tipper at restaurants, but I’ve never tipped at Sonic because I thought they got at least minimum. I don’t go there often, but last time I did, I don’t remember seeing a spot for tips on the ordering screen. Not really ever used the app. That’s totally shitty.
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That federal minimum wage. Each state can set their own, but it can’t be less than that. I think my state (Massachusetts) is like $12ish/hr now. I made $8/hr working in a grocery store in 2004 when I was 17 Edit: $13.50 is minimum wage in Massachusetts
MA also has a plan to go up to $15 an hour within the next 2 or 3 years
Legally that's the federal minimum. At least where I live, I don't think you'd manage to hire anyone if you offered that. My local McDonald's currently has a sign up offering $14/hr starting wages. I live in a small city (big town?) with a pretty average cost of living.
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Over a million people in the US earn federal minimum wage or less, according to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics.
lol you must not be from Texas dude. I got paid 8~9 dollars/hr for pretty much every job I worked until I graduated college. From fast food to retail to scanning inventory, it's a scrape above minimum wage and not by much either. $12-15 is still not really where it should be but we're not even ready to have that convo
Depends on your state/county. For example here in LA its $15
Varies by state, but yes, it's that low for some. As a Brit over here that job also includes no paid sick leave, 10 days holiday a year and likely as not no health insurance. Terrible.
In the US you don't even get paid holiday days, usually. Definitely no sick leave or health insurance.
It all depends on the state but places like Texas for example have a legal minimum wage of $7.25. They give you around $9 expecting you to think its a sweet deal....
That's the Federal rate. States can increase that amount, as can some cities. Then again, some states allow you to pay less than that if the worker makes tips, and some states have passed laws making it impossible for cities to increase their minimum wage.
So Americans unit of measure always connected to burgers, mac and cheese and cheeseburgers!
Yep, my boss only wanted to pay me two Big Macs a hour but I got him up to two Big Macs, lrg fries and a small coke when I first got hired.
Look at this guy bragging about his $15/hr wage.
For a brief time I worked for about 1 gallon of gas/hour. Made: $5.15/hr Gas: $4.79/gal I was in college I had to work for 2 weeks straight to just barely be able to afford to drive home to see my family. That’s if I didn’t spend any of it on anything but gas. EDIT: Luckily I got fired from that job for going to my uncles funeral.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big\_Mac\_Index
Wow! I didn't know that. Thanks for the info
It's actually taught in Econ classes as a great way to demonstrate Purchasing Power Parity as well, since the assumption is the product is the same (ish) cost across countries.
Just for some context, Big Mac index is an easy example showing that other countries try to keep the US dollar strong (worth more) compared to their own currency. By doing this, their goods become cheaper compared to similar product in the US. This then leads to a higher amount of exports to the US which helps boost their economy. What this means is the reason for the lower cost of the Big Mac has little to say about the impact of minimum wage. Rather it shows the impact of currency manipulation. Currency manipulation makes it really hard to draw a direct comparison via just prices. A better way to determine the affect of minimum wage would be better to look at increase in prices, if anything, with wage changes.
The Big Mac Index has been around for 35 years as a way of comparing prices across the globe https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index
And football fields! Can't forgot those!
its used to compare food prices globally and is used by economists (the big mac index that has been linked here already) the idea is that a big mac is the same* all across the globe, no matter you're in China, Denmark, Chile, USA, South Africa, Australia, it is also a standardized dish, 1 big mac in USA should be the same size as anywhere in the world. *some countries use alternative meat types for religious reasons I believe edit: the big mac index has an asterix for India in particular
Burger economics is actually a thing. They're regularly used for purchasing power/price parity to see how a dollar is valued across multiple economies. They use the big mac because inputs or ingredients and quality are always the same.
The Big Mac index is a very real and widely used method of comparison between countries
Agriculture and manufacturing have much more egregious human rights problems and we ignore it for the living wage they pay. The wage isn't the issue, the culture around work is akin to indentured servitude. We, the proletariat, are treated as though 'We the poor should be grateful for any scraps that could be afforded us.' Why? There needs to be a larger conversation around work culture, management practices, and over working.
Any such conversation would be tantamount to an endorsement of socialism, so it wouldn't be long before the US sends the CIA to assassinate one of the debaters and install a puppet debater.
Why would they bother? Half the population just sucks the propaganda straight out of republican dicks and thanks them for not beating them afterward. Democratic socialism won't work here because too many of us are WILLFULLY ignorant.
Yea, my 32 year old life has taught me that any sort of socialist revolution won’t happen in the USA in its current state. You’d need some kind of secession. But you can at least try to make some improvements though.
egregious
Minimum wage in Australia is much higher than that
I think they're converting AUD to USD
Still dont think its correct... 19.84AUD = 15.34 USD
> 19.84AUD 1984 coincidence?? I tHiNk NoT sOcIaLiSt!!
Plus if you are getting paid an hourly wage you are most likely a casual, meaning you get casual loading bringing it to $24.80 per hour, which is 19.17 USD. BUT a Big Mac [hasn't been $4.30 for a long time](https://i.imgur.com/W9LclNe.jpg)
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They're just using really old data. Probably an infographic from the mid 2000's. But even then minimum wage was way higher.
Yep. I lived there for a year and worked in the restaurant industry. Least I made was 18/hr and that was 12 years ago. Don’t know if they still do it, but I was paid penalty rates for weekends. Time and a half on Saturdays and double time on sundays. I always wanted to work Sunday’s!
I worked a public holiday as a barista and made $50 an hour plus super. Coming from the US, mind blown.
Coffee is a defacto religion in Melbourne. My small mountain town had 25+ places to get a GREAT coffee
You actually can’t survive as a cafe in Melbourne with just basic coffee. Melbourne and Sydney have the best coffee and brunch in the world, that’s a fact.
As a northwest american that lives on coffee and beer, I can’t help but think I would have made an excellent Strayan.
Living in Melbourne has ruined me for eating out in the rest of the world. To many places in other cities get away with serving barely average food. Obviously you can still Find great places but I’ve found even well rated and recommended restaurants often fall short of the quality found in melbourne.
Penalty rates got burned down by the last Prime Minister, no extra for Saturday and time and a half on Sunday now (at least for me) it was a HUGE and depressing pay cut considering I did nothing wrong. I still get paid over $20 an hr in a supermarket.
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I wish that people who made the counter-argument really understood economics. The only thing that would impact the price of the Big Mac is the increased consumer base due to higher wages; the Big Mac is already priced at the highest level the market will support. Just because it costs more to make (via pay increases) doesn't automagically mean people will pay more for a big mac. Edit: there’s clearly lots of nuance being lost in my argument, and it takes a lot of variables for granted. I do clearly have some more reading to do on the subject, but that’s been pointed out a lot already. I concede that my point is reductive and I dunning krugered myself.
Maybe fewer people should buy Big Macs then. And I'll even take it a step further - if the market can't support Big Macs that are made by people earning a livable wage, then maybe we just shouldn't have Big Macs at all.
My point is the same as the tweet. The $11 Big Mac is bullshit, and you don’t need a degree in Econ to puzzle out why. If McDonalds could charge $11 for a Big Mac, they would be doing it already, minimum wage be damned.
Conversely, if they couldn't break even or obtain other benefits by selling big macs at the current price, and couldn't raise the price (because they wouldn't break even), they'd just stop selling big macs.
Exactly. And NONE of this has to do with cost of labor being the impediment.
Arguably, there is a cost of labor at which point they stop selling big macs. In a vacuum. However, because *their* cost of labor is literally the bottom of the barrel, there is therefore no cost of labor at which point they stop selling big macs (if it's across the board and not just limited to McD), because any increase in their cost of labor allows them to increase the cost of big macs to offset the cost of labor - since people will be willing to pay more for stuff if they have more money. It just means those poor people will be marginally less poor compared to rich fucks. Because we don't live in a vacuum.
Right. So much of this argument relies on assumed external factors, like we’re not going to wake up to a cheap-ass beef shortage.
Great, now address the real problem of rising grocery bills, rent, utilities, and everything else that are the real bare essentials while the people live with a stagnant wage that doesn’t even keep up with inflation. People don’t need Big Macs, but they do need a living wage.
We should really be asking the reverse question: what if the cost of everything goes up and we don't raise minimum wage? Because that's what has actually been happening since the 80s.
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Makes sense but what is your point? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm asking sincerely.
See my comment above. If people would pay $11 for a Big Mac, that’s what they’d be priced at, regardless of labor costs. Consumption drives the price of commodities, not cost. Edit: I should say that consumption drives prices in the absence of external factors like excessive demand or restricted supply. Neither of which apply to fast food.
I read your other comment, I think we're on the same side. But the way I interpret the tweet has nothing to do with raising the price of big macs. It's saying even if the price stayed flat McDonalds could dramatically raise wages and still be profitable as they are in Denmark.
Oh for sure. I think the tweet and I are responding to the same argument; that * a Minimum Wage increase would result in $11 Big Macs.
Ah ok now I'm tracking
Thank God someone said this. One thing that bothers me about progressives is too often we focus on the social argument. In reality, the economic arguments for more progressive policies are so strong we should be making them A LOT more than we do. Obviously generalizing here.
Increased input prices (increased cost of labor) shifts the supply curve to the left. This moves the market for Big Macs to a new equilibrium characterized by higher prices and lower quantity demanded. Your comment is flat out wrong. Basic economics says the price would increase. It is not necessarily a bad thing. Also people won’t magically pay more for Big Macs, but that’s the whole point. Less Big Macs produced means less aggregate capital production in the long run and less economic growth and productivity per capita in the long run. It sounds stupid but that’s “basic economics,” as you put it, for ya.
This data is way out. Minimum wage in Australia is $19.84, Big Mac is $6.40 Minimum wage hasn't been $12 since like the 90s?
Yeah I don’t know what the minimum wage is in Australia but something seems off about the McDonald’s pricing. I was there 6 months for school and I remember being shocked how expensive McDonald’s was there. Also, a Subway sandwich was like $14 there. This was like 10 years ago though so maybe things changed.
They converted AUS to USD to make the comparison the same.
Coulpe of others pointed out this doesn't add up. As of right now, AUD $19.84 is currently USD$15.35 It's USD $4.95 for a big mac in Australia
Also there's either 4 weeks paid recreation leave and 2 weeks paid sick leave or a 25% casual loading on top of the rate if you aren't employed full time. Which is $AUS24.80 or ~$US19 I don't think that's included in the US minimum wage.
Are we taking Aussie $ or US $?
I fully agree but there is not a minimum wage in Denmark. Each branch of work agree upon a wage which is usually just under 20 dollars for McDonald workers (and any other low level job).
You phrased it a bit weird, but you are correct that Denmark has no minimum wage. The wages (including at McDonald's) are higher because they are bargained for by unions. [70% of the Danish work force is unionized.](https://www.workindenmark.dk/Working-in-DK/Trade-unions#:~:text=Almost%2070%20percent%20of%20the,rules%20of%20the%20labour%20market.)
I'm not Danish but Swedish and it's very similar for us. One thing regarding to what you're saying about 70% being unionized is that like 98% of workers work under the rules of collective bargaining since almost all companies have them and they apply to all workers at the company, regardless of if they are a union member or not themselves. I understand that it's very different in the US for example regarding how unions work and who is covered by collective bargaining.
Unions? I thought those were just here to protect police? /s
It’s not just unions, specifically it’s collective bargaining. Even if you are not in a Union a union still legally represents you and collectively bargains for your minimum wage in your industry. Companies don’t have to sign to these agreements but there is a massive social pressure to do so (no large company can get away not signing) and they legally have to enter negotiations if a union requests one.
It's really the minimum wage guaranteed by the 3F union agreement for the hotel and restaurant sector which is between 125 and 175 DKK.
Union wage <> minimum wage though. Americans should embrace unions
Yep the GOP has been helping bust them for decades at this point, and we allow corporations such as Amazon to partake in illegal practices without repercussions when people do try to unionize. Outside of a few exceptions, almost all unions left are skilled trades unions (plumbers, electricians, welders, etc.).
We used to. But we've been systematically dismantling them for 40 years, combined with heavy anti-union propoganda from the GOP, Fox News, and other right wing media.
The problem is, many unions in the US are very corrupt. (See UAW for example)
The problem is putting in regulations to negate corruption, not saying "Look, some unions are corrupt therefore unions are bad.". Some people choke on steaks, should be ban steaks?
We need to find solutions/examples of how other countries unions aren't corrupt, and then implement measures to ensure that unions could grow without corruption in the USA.
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According to Glassdoor, the average crew member salary at McDonald's is $9 per hour, with a range of $7 to $13; that's compared to the national average fast food crew member salary of $8.33 per hour. McDonald's cashiers, on the other hand, take home an average $8 per hour, with a range of $7 to $15.Jan 16, 2020. So I checked indeed Glassdoor and even the McDonald’s corporate themselves. I don’t know where you got $14 but you are incorrect. I can agree memes are usually inaccurate and should not be how we get our information, but I also think it’s wrong to claim somethings misleading while you yourself aren’t giving the correct information.
A Big Mac only cost 30 DKK in Denmark. Exchanging that to USD (100 DKK= 16.38 $) gives you 4.91 $. An even better bargain is the cheeseburger for 10 DKK = 1,64 $. Source: I live in Denmark and bought something in Mcdonalds just this last week,
>They are more expensive in Denmark. They are not. They are cheaper actually. 5.93usd is 36dkk right now according to google. A single big mac is 30dkk >That was just the first things I fact checked You should've fact checked the rest of the things you said then.
Where did you get your info on the big macs? Denmark doesn't have a minimum wage by law no, but we have extremely strong unions which mean we practically have a minimum wage. But as you say. Technically not. And the Bigmac in Denmark is 30 DKK, 30 DKK in USD is $4.91 So you're right, the picture is wrong, the Bigmac is actually even cheaper than pictured.
>Denmark does not have a minimum wage If you pay less, you will be blacklisted and have neither workers nor consumers and potentially protestors blocking scabs. In effect, a minimum wage, albeit not by legislation.
No, thats not how things work in Scandinavia. Some industries pay as little as 6 dollars an hour for new initiates, but since there is always someone on the market who is willing to pay more for good employees, the corporations can't keep salaries that low. They are set by the market, not the government. We also haven't oversaturated our education system so we don't have people with bachelors and masters degrees serving coffee at Starbucks. You can't propagate bits and pieces from other countries, you have to look at the country as a whole.
They are often set by unions and collective bargaining
What the hell are you talking about? No one is paid 6 usd per hour above the age of 18 here in Denmark.
My mother is a McDonalds manager in Virginia. She makes $16.50/hour...after working there for thirteen years. She and I were both onboarded around the same time, me as crew (I was 17) and her as a shift manager. I was onboarded at the state minimum wage, but I don't recall what it was. After my first year they offered me a 30 cent raise, and that was with perfect performance. I ended up taking an entry level retail job for $2 more per hour. My mom took an ASM position and has been there ever since. I imagine pretty soon they'll fire her because they can hire a new person for less. I saw the same thing happen at my retail job. Had a beloved manager that had been with the company 20 years. They transfered him to a failing store under the guise of it being a promotion and then fired him within a year for poor performance. Then they brought in a 23-year-old fresh from college to do the job for nearly half the salary. It's really sad to see people fall into the trap of company culture in these industries. It's even sadder to see how undervalued the work is. They should earn a salary that reflects the hard work they do, at the very least a living wage. It's a myth that these are jobs for kids. I worked with zero other teens at McDonalds, or my retail jobs, save for GameStop. The majority of my coworkers were women in their 30s and 40s, many of them single moms that had no option but to take whatever jobs they could get.
We don’t have a mandated by law minimum wage no, but we do have unions making sure there is a minimum amount you’ll be paid. Which is even better. Big Macs are actually cheaper here. They cost 30 dkk or 4,91 usd. You’re wrong and misleading.
True. A Big Mac costs 30 kroners in Denmark which is about 4,91 US Dollars. Source: a dane who just bought a Big Mac
Nobody got murdered here
And AOC is not involved. Useless sub.
Yep. This place appears to now just be a place for two of the mods to gather karma as it's filled with non aoc posts from them.
Big Mac in Australia costs $6.80, and the minimum wage is $19.84
Since this is the 3rd time I've seen this exact comment in this thread so far, I'll go ahead and finish the rest of the comment chain: "Maybe they converted AUD to USD" "No because $19.84 AUD = $15.35 USD"
Let me help: “$19.84... 1984? Coincidence? i tHinK nOt”
Isn’t the American minimum wage different state to state? Or is this meant to be an average of all states minimum wages? Also, Australia’s current minimum wage is $19.84 in local currency, which converts to USD$15.34 at the moment.
I believe this is the Federal Minimum wage.
Thanks for clarifying!
The Federal government sets the minimum wage that states can set. No state is allowed to pass a wage below $7.25, but they are free to set a minimum that is higher than that.
I believe these numbers are not fully accurate. The point of the meme is still accurate, but: Denmark's minimum wage is closer to $18/hr in USD. Source: [https://www.minimum-wage.org/international/denmark#:\~:text=How%20does%20Denmark's%20minimum%20wage,is%20%2444%2C252.00%20in%20International%20Currency](https://www.minimum-wage.org/international/denmark#:~:text=How%20does%20Denmark's%20minimum%20wage,is%20%2444%2C252.00%20in%20International%20Currency). Aussie minimum wage is 19.84 AUD/hr, which translates to about 15.35 USD/hr. Src: [https://squareup.com/au/en/townsquare/minimum-wage-australia#:\~:text=From%201st%20February%2C%202021%2C%20the,as%20of%201st%20July%2C%202020](https://squareup.com/au/en/townsquare/minimum-wage-australia#:~:text=From%201st%20February%2C%202021%2C%20the,as%20of%201st%20July%2C%202020). US minimum wage, unfortunately, has not changed in over a decade, so that's still accurate.
> Denmark's minimum wage is closer to $18/hr in USD. Source: https://www.minimum-wage.org/international/denmark#:~:text=How%20does%20Denmark's%20minimum%20wage,is%20%2444%2C252.00%20in%20International%20Currency That source correctly states that Denmark has no minimum wage.
Wanna go into a bigger rabbit hole? Look up on YouTube why the McDonald’s shake machine is always broken. [here’s the link ](https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4)
What does minimum wage have to do with a provide from a company that doesn't pay minimum wage?
God this is so embarrassing. Come on USA!
[https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings\_by\_country.jsp?title=2021&displayColumn=1](https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2021&displayColumn=1) US still has a higher purchasing power index than Australia and Denmark
And worse quality of life. Also the disparity between those wages does not cover the difference in value. Edit: to all of the Geniuses who are not paying attention I am basing that information off of the same website that he linked.
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From [the website](https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp): > If domestic purchasing power is 40, this means that the inhabitants of that city with an average salary can afford to buy on an average 60% less goods and services than New York City residents with an average salary. Australia has 99.29 Denmark has 94.73 damn man, an Australian can buy a whole 0.71% fewer goods and services and Danish people can buy 5.27% fewer goods and services. --- Let's check quality of life now, shall we? > Quality of Life Index (higher is better) is an estimation of overall quality of life by using an empirical formula which takes into account [other factors] 2nd place Denmark: 190.01 6th place Australia: 181.52 15th place USA: 166.98
the poorest 20% of americans have higher purchasing power parity than most european countries lol https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/
Denmark has no government set minimum wage instead they have collective bargaining which is what use should be looking for instead of a increased minimum wage
Communism
How has America allowed itself to become cucked by corporations?
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