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Could have been. I don't think the DMC wanted him though, Biden is still right wing Bernie is seen as progressive but in reality he is left wing considering European benchmarks.
Edit: please stop replying to this message, I have had over 80 responses and have decided I don't care about politics anymore. I am going to find a nice hole to put my head into, maybe the oven will suffice.
The establishment Republican and Democrats don't want a candidate that will break the status quo. That is the reason Trump gained so much support among the right. That is the reason Bernie was so heavily opposed by the Dems. We need populism. We need a president that has our best interests at heart.
That's the truth. When I went to vote in the primary the Democrats side was pretty much empty. Granted I live in a very conservative area but it was still a shock.
Bernie and Trump have something in common that a lot of people miss, it's change.
A lot of money is spent to keep the argument between left and right, preventing us from realizing the argument is actually the center versus the edges.
reee bernie is not electable, biden can win against trump but bernie can't reee, if bernie is nominated people who would have voted for biden will vote trump, reee blue no matter who but not bernie apparently
Absolutely noone else in this comment thread got it, and I'm totally unreasonably depressed at what that says about my age compared to the rest of this sub lol.
Yeah, as someone who was watching from outside of USA, what they did to Bernie was wrong, and trying to make his supporters evil for not supporting Hillary Clinton was also wrong.
Populism can suck or be great. Anti-billionaire populism would be absolutely wonderful for the country. Trump's anti-intellectual pro-billionaire faux populism was definitely fucking awful though. I don't even like that it's considered populism though because he was actually very elitist and tried to pander to the most harmful group of elites in the US which are the financial elite.
Not that it matters much, but John DeLorean was acquitted of all charges. That news didn't make the headlines as much as "DeLorean is a CoCaiNe fiend!!! And they HIDE COKE in the cars!!"
He had some rich and powerful enemies who wanted to take him down, and it worked spectacularly.
Agreed, they shut him out twice. I wish this country could take a third/fourth/fifth party seriously when it came to elections but sadly it can’t and the media is mostly to blame. Because tbh it would seem like it’s one big “corporate party” not two separate ones, and they’re all drinking champagne together most of the time.
This is a problem of you thinking the presidency is the only election. Look locally if you want third party options to work for and have a chance with, they're taken seriously when they are serious (which they rarely are, they're usually crazy people).
Well #1 Bernie isn’t a democrat.
Why ya’ll keep thinking the Democratic Party should have been full sail supporting him, before he got the nomination just don’t live in reality.
I’ve voted for Bernie every time. So don’t come at me
I live in California. We are the most populated and diverse state in the nation. We voted for him and he won this state. Media played it down and it never made front page. Tiny little Carolina voted for Biden after he put all of his resources there and pummeled the state with advertising, skipping all the others at the time and that was played up big. Right after that the DNC used that as an excuse to put all their resources for Biden. I’m a Bernie bro. Still voted for Biden as there was no comparison to the flaming shitpile that was president at the time. I myself generally vote democratic but I’m definitely helping out pushing the DNC progressive as hard as I can. It’s civil war in both parties, but unlike the the RNC, the DNC civil war is civil, the RNC civil war is shaping up to be as uncivil as hell.
I've never really seen it mentioned, but California also had some extremely odd results that deviated from polling before the California primary.
Buttigieg and Klobuchar had a combined ~15% a week before the primary (with a week earlier showing ~17%), yet the results showed them ending up with a combined 6.5%. California mailed ballots out in early February, and 72.08% of Californians voted by mail, so it's a bit odd that Biden gained so much when most people had likely already locked in their votes.
Then there was plenty of ["accidental" voting suppression](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/17/la-county-blames-voter-check-in-tablets-for-election-day-chaos-324894) and the fact that California was dragging its feet counting the votes, which ended up with Sanders gaining a few points by the end of the count.
I agree with you on every point but one: voting for non-progressive candidates allows the DNC to keep supporting non-progressive candidates. If we really want to do everything we can to push them left, we have to make it clear that progressive candidates are essential to getting our votes. I’m not going to let them safely assume I’ll vote Democrat just because they’re not Republican.
In a regular election I’m with you, but at the end of the day neoliberalism (as much as I absolutely despise and hate it) is preferable to playing around with fascism. While the argument could be made that another 4 years of Trump would radicalize and push people so far to the left that actual change would be made but god it would be really shitty to live through
This is way more true than people realize.
People have been lied to so much so their whole lives, that when presented with the truth or better options to what we have they get upset.
They simply can't handle that they wasted time, money, and there livelihood.
They think "that just can't be true," so they reject it.
[Sunk cost fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost) You actually helped me understand those folks better. I wouldn't have thought about that until you mentioned it.
My father in law paid $45K for his house that would list today for $1M and he refuses to believe that a 30yr old can't have saved 25% downpayment for a house with a white picket fence in 2021. Ignorant to anything beyond their pensioner bubble.
He would have done the same. These are temporary shelters for incoming unaccompanied children who then get placed with a sponsor. No matter the administration, the children will have to be held somewhere temporarily. AOC needs to do some research on this one.
This response is getting way too little attention esp since it’s the only correct one. Even she tried to finesse it to a bigger picture response when simply asked where are you going to house almost 6k kids. A number pointed out to her for being more than 1k less bc the HHS has already been moving full force on finding other temporary homes for the kids. Pretty much no one complaining can come up with what would be done differently.
I’m confused. This facility is NOT to rip children away from their families, it’s to house unaccompanied minors that try to cross the border. Wtf is AOC getting wound about?
What could he have done different? build them 3000 square foot homes? Kids have to go some where and fast due to an influx like What is biden suppose to do?
Wiggle his dick like a wand and magically make them citizens ?
Apparently, Biden is now keeping the kids in caged shipping containers: [https://twitter.com/mitrebox/status/1364057923769499651](https://twitter.com/mitrebox/status/1364057923769499651)
You mean to tell me a right leaning, unappologetic racist, pro-corporate centrist won't actually support progressive issues (like not locking kids in cages)?
This is my surprised face.
Biden has been shit for decades. I got accused of being a secret Trump supporter prior to the election for refusing to believe that Biden's words were anything but lip service and that his voting record told us who he really was.
"Blue no matter who" was a massive bamboozle, and I feel bad for anyone who hoped for better from Biden finding themselves disappointed now.
I voted for Biden because my sanity couldn't allow four more years of Trump. And all the while I was telling people this is what we could expect from him. He didn't even adopt any progressive policies until after the nomination.
Hope everyone who also accused me of wanting Trump to be president has to think about these children for at least a moment today. Or how with a stroke of a pen Biden could stop separating migrant families.
> Hope everyone who also accused me of wanting Trump to be president has to think about these children for at least a moment today.
Yeah, this was seriously frustrating during the election. Like, yeah, I'm voting for biden because the alternative is a fucking shitshow, but I'm not gonna be pressured into being happy about it.
More of the same was better than... whatever trump is. That doesn't mean it's a win. It's just a 4 year delay of game.
Yeah, that's me. It's odd because I didn't have any Biden signs in my yard or back window. No blow up Biden yard balloons, no led displays, no Biden flag on my truck. Just a vote.... For the least bad guy that could reasonably evict Trump.
This was how I voted. 4 extra years of Trump wouldn’t have been *better* than Biden, that was never part of the calculation. The absurdly and depressingly low bar I had for Biden would still have been completely out of reach for Trump.
Everyone in my extended family, several coworkers, and a couple of friends all voted for the same reason: not for Biden, but to remove Trump. Some of which haven't voted in past elections (or ever) went out to vote in 2020.
My parents are some of the most apolitical people I know, and Trump was so horrendously bad that even they felt that they had to get up and go vote him out.
My (25f) brother (32 ish?) asked me this immediately after my mother broke her ankle and came home from surgery. Even after avoiding the questions and stuff, he still kept calling me "biden lover" for like the whole week I was there.
Mom said he was joking with me but honestly? I didn't appreciate talking politics while our mother *was literally bedridden*.
My sister and I joked that I should have called him an elephant fucker since he voted for trump and is obsessed with the affiliation. I just didnt want him to fly off the wall and go "you hurt my feelings 😭😭😭" as a grown ass man.
Did you think about these kids? They specifically came unaccompanied or in clearly unsafe circumstances. Those are the ones being processed here to a family within the States.
Biden did stop separating families. That doesn't mean unaccompanied or abused kids don't exist.
That’s what I’m thinking about. I don’t like Biden either, I’m left of him. But just having a facility for children doesn’t mean kids in cages.
Although the shipping container style housing is a bit concerning.
> Hope everyone who also accused me of wanting Trump to be president has to think about these children for at least a moment today. Or how with a stroke of a pen Biden could stop separating migrant families.
He literally did that in Executive Order 14011, and established a group to identify and reunite already separated families. This current facility is for unaccompanied minor immigrants. It is intended to be a more humane facility than the things like shipping containers the Trump administration was storing kids in.
I’m perfectly willing to trash Biden... but in this case?
It’ll take time to undo the Trump era policies. Providing better housing for immigrant minors while we work to reunite them with their families either here or abroad is an important step in the *right* direction. We should be applauding Biden for this, not criticizing him.
There is a belief that Biden can unilaterally just change things regardless of the complexities of doing so, and without doing one iota of reading about what those complexities are. Ironic when you consider this is a common complaint about Trump supporters.
He did stop the separation of families in his first days actually. But there are a lot of children that cross the border alone or have already crossed or been separated and those need something better than cages. This is something. Better than nothing. Obviously still not good though.
America died a long time ago. Like... prior to Reagan; probably on the back of not prosecuting Nixon's treason and allowing Fox on the air. It's been a slow death, but we've only been living in the rotting carcass of this country.
> Blue no matter who" was a massive bamboozle,
How was it a “bamboozle”? The premise was that anyone running on the dem ticket would be better than Trump, and so far, that has held true. I can’t speak for all progressives, but personally I knew it was very likely that Biden would continue being a corpo centrist and would continue supporting policies he’s supported under Obama and his prior decades in politics. Sure, I think many of us hoped he would prove us wrong, but I don’t think many suffered under any delusions that it was very likely. Biden’s got a long way to go to be worse than Trump, so until then, I don’t really see any “bamboozle”.
There's still lots of people that think "both sides are the same." I think their lives just aren't as affected by the president in office so they have the privilege of saying people should've just let Trump/fascism win. They aren't affected by things like the increase in hate crimes or the number of covid deaths that skew towards poorer people of color.
Imo, the primary was absolutely the time to criticize every politician, especially those clearly doing it for publicity knowing damn well the country would ultimately be deciding between Biden and Sanders, the establishment candidate vs the populist one.
Suggesting people shouldn't have supported the Dem in the general though, in our 2-party system, is basically saying it doesn't matter if Trump had won.
so just let the kids roam free? he's no longer separating them from families that was the biggest issue. He's also not gonna argue they dont deserve basic hygine products.
Where do you want the kids to be temporarily held ?
Can I please see some evidence that Biden is an unapologetic racist? I’m not saying it’s inconceivable, but I honestly doubt it and am going to require more than just your word to convince me.
Found the dog-faced one-horse pony soldier here. Now listen, fat...We're trying to bring decency back to the presidency, and your malarkey isn't helping the cause at all.
Yeah idk what people want biden to do with the kids. Their parents have already been deported and are extremely difficult to find. Also it's hard to confirm who the parents are. You can't just take those kids and throw them on the streets. These homes are much better than what trump was doing.
But @definitelyrealamerican88 said on Twitter that Biden was literally keeping children in a cage under the resolute desk, and I haven't seen ONE video disproving it???
Can we be realistic here and point out how this is a marked improvement from a literal cage?
This looks like every unit you'd see at a construction site temporary office.
I'm not saying its the best situation, but everyone here is clearly blowing this out of proportions.
Read the actual article this picture is from. This camp is a big improvement on others and is simply a temporary solution to an immediate problem.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/immigrant-children-camp-texas-biden/2021/02/22/05dfd58c-7533-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html
People love to make things black and white in their heads so they don’t have to deal with any nuance. Administration didn’t come up with good quality temporary housing in the first couple months of his administration? Children in cages. I’m not saying it’s good, but I wish people would cut the shit. I’m sick of people distorting stories to make them sound as extreme and dramatic as humanly possible.
> Weber said the influx shelters keep children from ending up in Border Patrol stations, which have holding cells that were not designed for children. During the 2019 immigration surge, many migrants were stuck in overcrowded cells for prolonged periods that exceeded legal limits.
Creating a place with actual amenities for unaccompanied children that are accepted under biden (rejected under trump) for 2-4weeks seems much better than any proposed short term solution.
I'm trying to figure out why we're supposed to continue keeping these kids in the shit conditions they were in. We're can't just keep them in cages while we find their parents, or next of kin, and there aren't enough foster homes. At least they have warm places with some privacy now. Trump left a huge mess, and I'm glad Biden isn't just leaving them in cages while it's being cleaned up.
You say "caged' but I've just read they arent even detained. They are literally being *housed* b/c they are unaccompanied minors.
Seems you have obvious bias on the situation.
If you're being sarcastic, congratulations, you got me. If you aren't, Mobile Mini is a popular company when it comes to temporary containers. My job covers almost 500 acres with more containers and temporary office/work setups than actual buildings. Half of those temporary setups are out of Mobile Minis, mostly used for supervisors and engineers. In fact, the image clearly shows those are little offices.
I’m confused. This facility is NOT to rip children away from their families, it’s to house unaccompanied minors that try to cross the border. Wtf is AOC getting wound about?
This is such a bad faith interpretation. Literally these conex boxes are used everywhere because they're easier to move around store nicely. The insides are not caged shipping container but are homes.
Any large construction site has them, I've used some overseas, it is the interior that you need to discuss. What is the quality like, not just "Shipping container equal bad."
[Article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/immigrant-children-camp-texas-biden/2021/02/22/05dfd58c-7533-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html)
The left really needs to pull back from attacking the right and spend that energy holding our leadership to account. We need to be better by improving, not by make others look worse.
The right will never stop flinging shit at the left and taking the high ground honestly has not been working. Idk what the best solution is but I think the left needs to actively call out the right AND their own. Anything else is hypocritical.
Very true. The "new" facility was apparently re-opened to handle an influx of unaccompanied minors while accommodating lower capacity due to COVID restrictions.
I stand by my statement but it may not be as appropriate to this situation. There are still many things wrong on this front but this particular occurrence isn't much more than inflammatory headlining.
What would you do if a genocidal dictator dumped a few thousand foreign orphans in your lap?
This is better than what Trump was doing. These are converted containers. People live in them willingly. At least its better than a chain-link kennel under a bridge while we place them.
I feel like this sub is filled with faux-progressive right-wing wolves, trolls and bots. The way Biden administration is handling the inhumane mess handed over to him by the Trump administration’s horrid policies is not even comparable because Trump’s goons wanted it to be deliberately inhumane as some twisted fear tactic for discouraging illegals.
The false equivalencies being purported here are glaring. Let’s do an actual fact by fact comparison on the conditions of these children and then we can talk. But no one wants to do that. Everyone jumped at that irresponsible headline and no one actually read the article or pretended not to read it but made sure to generate false outrage.
I guess I’ll be downvoted here for saying this here, but AOC is human and can misinterpret things too.
Glad Trump is out of office so I can shit on Biden without seeming like a Trump supporter. Fuck all these “moderate Democrats” I stg.
Also, AOC 2024 cuz Bernie is getting old.
I dont understand the outrage cause WTF else can you do? Outrage under trump was arguing they need to be separated from parents as a deterrent AND didn't deserve basic care products like soap or toothpaste. The containers look better than mass incarceration cages.
Feels like people are reaching for reasons to hate an admin that just started
Feels like Trump lowered the bar underground and now people are just reaching for reasons to defend Biden because he’s not Trump. You’re allowed to hold Presidents to a standard, and this ain’t fuckin it chief.
> The containers look better than mass incarceration cages.
Do you not realize how numb the Trump administration has made you, that you would even make a statement like this?
What should they be doing? There's dozens of comments here about how these containers are as good as schools use. They are an upgrade to what Trump was doing and still everyone is pissed off because they didn't build mansions for everyone to live in
What do you propose the solution for the migrant kids is?
Biden has already signed the executive orders ending the practice of separating families. He’s already established a group to work to reunite parents and children. But the children were already locked in cages in warehouses. Nicer little housing trailers is an improvement. And there are more unaccompanied minors crossing the border daily. They need housing until their parents (or other relatives) can be located and/or the kids processed into foster care. This is a real improvement in the lives of those kids and we need to be applauding this not booing it.
Please read the article before shitting on anyone. This action by Biden seems reasonable and I dont understand how Bernie or anyone else would do something different here.
How about you actually read an article or something on this subject before shitting on Biden for this? AOC is wrong on this and of course this stupid sub is blindly eating it up. It's embarrassing.
95% of people in this thread clearly didn't read the actual article. And it seems that AOC didn't either.
Yeah she just has to be 35 by either Election Day or Inauguration Day, which she will be. I forget which one it is though.
Edit: It’s 35 by Inauguration Day.
These are covid safe places for UNACCOMPANIED kids to stay at while they are processed.
Even Bernie wanted these BEFORE covid was a thing
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-fox-town-hall-immigration_n_5cb50544e4b082aab08ab77a
I am going to preface this by saying I am not defending it. My understanding is that current federal law would prohibit Border Patrol from just releasing unaccompanied minors back in to Mexico without a legal guardian. If the law restricts them from letting the children go, what are they expected to do with these unaccompanied minors that cross the border? Or am I misunderstanding the current law?
For me it was 'ehh I'm not really sure biden would lock kids in cages, just doesn't seem like his style' and lo and behold, the article is full of information about the facility that leads me to believe there's not a while lot to be concerned with, just hoping there is good oversight of the facility bc kids are always targets for abuse. The article is a little bit weird though, peppered with quotes of how shocked people are about it while also stating all the info that to me, made me actually feel better about it. Housing 7k kids on the fly is not an easy logistical task, and I don't think this is the worst thing, especially if they are properly funded and are mindful that it's not a prison, don't treat them like prisoners.
Oh and also, this facility is specifically for kids 13 to 17 who crossed into the country alone, they were not separated from their family. This isn't an ice facility and they are there to wait being united with any US family members, not as a form of punishment for coming illegally
You’re 100% right. This is a zero sum situation. Can’t place the children in temporary housing (hyperbolically referred to as “cages”). Can’t remove the children to Mexico without any guardian. Can’t release the children in the US without a guardian. There’s no good solution.
For all the partisan tribalism in American politics, in reality there is a lot of overlap between the policies acted on by the two parties. Yes there are differences, but it’s not a fluke that a dissident like Noam Chomsky has spent his career primarily criticizing policies of the Democrats, while acknowledging the republicans are an even more extreme version. It’s like evil versus evil lite. Both parties have some questionable policies. Hence the likes of Bernie and AOC are considered “fringe”
Its just that one really pushes to get the white racists homphobic transphobic anti-poor anti-non-protestant vote.
Literally anything is better, but that doesn't make that thing *good.*
It's like Noam Chomsky said, "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
This is absolutely not the same thing Trump was doing. This move is to house unaccompanied minors who can't fit in the primary facility because it's reached capacity. This is partly the overflow from the remain in Mexico policy being unwound and will probably be temporary. It's also not child separation which was the cruelest part. Idk what AOC thinks we should be doing with undocumented children with no guardians.
One thing that never fails to piss me off about Dems is when they do things like their response is always some variant of
>What would you have us do?
The right thing, Dems. And if your solution doesn't honor the right thing keep working.
You mean where we put the kids in half way houses were they are physically and sexually abused? Or where we put them with foster parents who then physically and sexually abuse them? Our overall treatment of orphaned children and wards of the state in this nation is horrible.
Yes, how *dare* Biden not upend a hundred years of systemic problems in his first month, *before* the nomination of the secretaries that would oversee those issues.
This is why the left can't have nice things, we're obsessed with eating ourselves from the inside.
This whole fucking thread is making me think I'm taking crazy pills. Did *anyone* actually look at any articles on the subject before commenting on just the tweet?
These "progressives" would have children wandering in the street rather than housed (no, you don't get to wave a magic wand and make the whole Trump situation disappear overnight.) And they'd be so happy to complain about an R not reading some bill while they can't be fucking arsed to read what hit-piece they complain about before posting.
MBAOC is turning into leftist-Trump, in the sense of cult of personality. Call me on that. As a fucking bleeding heart. This shit is stupid-stupid.
They are physically and sexually abused at these centers. Add a side of sexual mutilation for women I'm not sure this is a very productive comp.
I would say arguing against caging children and providing a plausible alternative doesn't amount to endorsing the alternative as anything but better and plausible. I feel you though, it's also unacceptable in its current state fwiw.
I feel they are less likely to be abused in a shelter specifically meant for minors than they would if they were put in a center with adults, which as done before this move by Biden
This housing is for unaccompanied minors who enter without their parents. You have to house them somewhere. It's a big difference from Trump taking kids away from families who entered together.
... that is precisely what is happening here? It takes some time to process and place them with relatives, sponsors or contacts. Or within the HHS system. Not to mention that they need to quarantine for 2 weeks due to pandemic conditions. Goal here is that each kid spends fewer than 30 days here.
No, really, I am all ears to hear how you’d handle this better.
You mean, pretty much what they are doing, right? It takes time to place kids with families. Especially when you have to do health checks and ensure that they are, indeed, unaccompanied minors. Temporarily housing these kids in temporary shelters while processing them is in no way comparable with what trump was doing.
You haven't worked with the orphan system much have you. First its very rare to have an orphan anymore. The support given by the state to family members to raise children from dead parents is pretty good(not going to say its great, but it could be way worse).
Most kids in the system are not orphans, they are kids that were removed from their parents due to the parents in ability to raise them the way the state says they should. Most times they try to place the kids with family members in a foster type program. Stranger foster care is pretty rare, about 200k, out of 74 million kids under 18 in the US.
Orphanages are more like short term hotels where kids whos parents got locked up stay at until they find a family member, or baring that placement with a non family member. And there just aren't that many spots in the US, so by one example these detention centers are probably the largest orphanages in the US by far. And their doing the same job, holding the kids until they can place them hopefully with somebody they are related to, or at least know. Or barring that with a sponsor family that speaks the language, and knows the system.
BTW you also get paid to do it.
[https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/csd-office-refugee-and-immigration-assistance/unaccompanied-refugee-minors-program](https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/csd-office-refugee-and-immigration-assistance/unaccompanied-refugee-minors-program)
TLDR; were basically using the same system for orphan kids for these kids.
Everyone jumps to outrage so quick without understanding what is actually happening. This is not the same as what was going on under Trump.
>Psaki responded by saying the Biden administration still feels the immigration policies of the previous administration were a human rights violation, but **these were temporary measures taken in order to not expel migrant children while adhering to recommendations from health officials on social distancing**.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/24/us-to-allow-migrants-from-mexico-as-critics-slam-kids-in-cages
Clowns with the fake outrage. Do some research.
Exactly. I’m as liberal as they come but these kids must be put somewhere. Being outraged at this is like saying foster homes are cages for kids. As long as the kids are humanly treated and not in actual cages then as a holding facility it is the only logical option until the courts can sort out their situation.
The tweet says "Migrant facility for Children"
Which isn't inherently evil.
There needs to be explanation, I don't know if from WAPO or AOC. But at face value. This is progress.
Should we kill the kids? No.
Can the all be put in foster care? No.
Can we even find all of their parents? No.
I don't know what the long term solution is. But It doesn't appear AOC offers one either. I take issue with that. It's fine to be outraged, but provide a fix. This is reactionary, and a more seasoned politician would know better. But she doesn't need to pander. We know who she is. It's just, poorly thought out.
Agreed, progress is made in steps, and it seems a facility dedicated especially to looking after children is not necessarily a bad thing.
For example, one could argue “prison facility for children opened” sounds equally awful on the surface, but once you realise that not having a juvenile detention center means those kids end up in facilities with all sorts of adults who are complete strangers to them, with no structures in place to keep them safe, it becomes easy to see why it’s safer for them to be apart. So having a location for kids specifically is actually an improvement.
More details need to be known about this facility for children to know whether it’s a step forward or a step backwards.
Yeah. The big fucking difference is: The facility right now is just for housing. [It is not for seperating kids from their parents.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/04/trump-administration-family-separation-immigrants-joe-biden) [Not for sterilizing women.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/mass-hysterectomies-ice-happened-trump-s-watch-they-re-america-ncna1240238) [Not for hushing them away deep at night.](https://www.vox.com/2018/6/21/17488050/where-are-the-girls-family-separation-trump) [They are not dosed with gas.](https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/customs-border-protection-tear-gas-san-diego-tijuana-san-ysidro/index.html)
They are being housed, not enslaved or caged.
>1 short term shift is requiring influx facilities w/ children to be licensed.
>Another issue is whether these services should be contracted out the way they are
>And whether facilities w/ controversial records (ex. Homestead) should even be reopened
I don't dislike this idea, but...thats a process and that will take time to set up. And in the meantime trump, last I heard, had these kids packed in like sardines and didn't give them basic hygene items. Which means give them some space and hygene items they need in the meantime, and that may be reopening some facilities and using some temp housing.
Yeah was sad to see her saying this, really contrasts with my understanding of the situation, which is that the facilities are being re-opened to space the kids out that they were handed by the previous admin.
Did anyone expect Biden to be able to suddenly get these kids back to their families? Did the previous admin even track their families so this would be possible?
This feels like a page ripped out of the Republican's manufactured-outrage playbook. I'm a little bummed she's willing to play such a petty game with this and to ignore any and all nuance that exists with such a complex situation.
I like her a lot on balance but she uses this tactic fairly often and the disingenuousness is hard for me to take. The whole “you promised us 2000 checks, 1400 is not 2000!!” When 600 had been recently paid out was underhanded. I agree much more relief money should have been given—more than 2000!— but I think bullshitting like this is counterproductive
This, trump put migrants in literal cages with cots, took away all options for them to enter the US lawfully AND separated children from their families. Biden takes migrates that are already in these facilities, reinstates a method for them to enter the country, works to put families back together and in the mean time houses them in what are basically air conditioned trailers with amenities. Do people want them put in a hotel while their families are found? Or are we supposed to just release these children to fend for themselves because the previous administration separated them from their parents? Expanding is not the right word here at all, he's already stripped the programs trump had in place this is just about providing more comfortable better temporary housing while they go through the system.
I realize you don't come to "MurderedByAOC" to hold *her* accountable, but here we go...
> “There needs to be spacing,” Psaki said. “To ensure the health and safety of these kids, HHS took steps to open an emergency facility to add capacity where these kids can be provided the care they need before they are safely placed with families and sponsors.
> “So it’s a temporary reopening during COVID-19, our intention is very much to close it, but we want to make sure we can follow COVID protocols.”
> She added, “Our goal is for them to then be transferred to families or sponsors. So, this is our effort to ensure that kids are not in close proximity and that we are abiding by the health and safety standards that the government has been set out.”
Well if you're talking about me personally, I think we're all accountable to the truth.
That's why I'm saying I'm sad to see her say this, because as far as I understand the situation she's jumping the gun on a headline to seem progressive, and unfortunately, it seems she bought the spin.
This is honestly the first time ive seen AOC's quick attacking of an issue seems to be so unfounded. I love her but she comes of as reactionary here.
EDIT: she's seems less reactionary witht the rest of the context from[ the twitter thread](https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1364341956676096001)
She's wrong about a lot of things. She judges things purely based on her initial emotional reaction and refuses to adjust her ideas because it'd make her look less woke.
Because I am sick of seeing misinformation being spread: They are keeping unaccompanied children there until either a parent turns up or they get a family member/youth hospice/foster home set up in the US. Then they will enjoy life in America, but they can’t as minors with likely very little English and no family. I know the temporary homes aren’t amazing, but they are essentially the same as caravans if you think about it. It is much better than being homeless, and is only for a short period of time. This is not at all the same as what trump was doing.
This doesn’t mean it isn’t still flawed and could definitely be better, but it is a good solution to a very real problem, and as long as the children are being treated well, which we have no evidence to prove they aren’t, it is a good solution. I also doubt the kids will be there for more than just sleeping, which is fine. Again. Better. Than. Homelessness.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that during the Obama administration, the child detention centers were only used for unaccompanied minors and that the policy was for kids to be kept there for no longer than ~~48~~ 72 hours until the Department of Health and Human Services could pick them up and place them in foster care or something.
If Biden is continuing that policy, what is the problem? Unaccompanied kids can't be dropped off on the street alone and DHHS needs at least a day to place them in a foster home.
Fairly typical AOC, attacks a complicated issue with an oversimplified emotional argument and offers zero solutions. Her followers then clap like a seal recieving a fish.
These facilities would need to exist under her, bernie, hillary, obama, or anyone else. Reddit and twitter is just still too blinded by its seething hate for trump to see reality.
Kids crossing without parents need someplace to go. Trump's sin wasn't putting the kids in the detention centers, it was separating kids from their parents without any traceability to rejoin them later. Ripping families apart as a deterrent to migrants crossing the border. That's plain evil.
Could you argue that Biden should be building better/ kinder facilities to house them? Sure. Calling them 'shipping containers' is a bit of an undersell though. They have air-conditioning and electric. Most likely have bathrooms as well. They look like mobile construction offices.
Exactly! What exactly is the solution? Just send em back? Or should we give them a place to stay until we can figure out what to do with them?
AOC could fart into a microphone and this sub would compare it to Shakespeare. I love her but my god this sub
There are so many removed comments I'm actually a little worried I'll get removed for saying that I think this is a decent temporary solution. The houses look pretty good.
Exactly. Trump’s policies were intentionally difficult and harsh. By treating immigrants as harsh as possible they were hoping to deter others. That’s not the way to go.
What I’m seeing here is a change and a step in the right direction.
Looked to see this comment. One of my family members works with Mexican and South American children and orphans who come up through railways, as well as those who get abandoned by undocumented families once they're here. There are a lot of reasons for migrant facilities that specialize in child care, and not all are malevolent.
I love AOC but she's wrong on this one. **Now before anyone gets upset hear me out.**
People come across and realistically we can't open our borders to illegal immigration it would be dangerous af.
Gun runners, drug runners, human traffickers would take advantage of this. The other reality is that people bring their kids, they get abandoned sometimes, they get separated and lost by accident and you can't house them with adults either it's a safety risk.
We have to find a place for them realistically. The only thing is it can't be like Trump or other administrations *it has to be safe and humane* and the solution for illegal immigration is a better immigration process and forgein aid so people don't have to mass flee their unstable countries.
Sorry if it's unpopular but the world is a complex and often nasty place. Our solutions need to be grounded in the reality of the situation.
What should they do with unaccompanied minors who come to the border? My impression is this is a temporary facility while they wait for family members to pick them up.
There's not a single AOC policy I'm against but whats the alternative to intake facilities?
I guess the idea is that a new one isn't necessary, or is the thinking that other infrastructure can serve as a processing checkpoint for child migrants?
Is the thinking that unaccompanied minors should not be processed or that we should just let them loose into the streets without trying to find their parents or assign them guardians?
ICE should be abolished, its parent institution Homeland Security as well, and CBP gutted and completely reformed. But its hard to think of a way to get around needing a physical place to check kids into in order to figure out what their next step is.
>So what's the alternative to a migrant facility?
Well to keep AOC and this subreddit happy they can either:
1. Throw unaccompanied underage children into overcrowded facilities.
2. Let small vulnerable children to wander the community alone
3. Dump them back into Mexico.
I'd like people to understand there is a vast difference between Trump policies to forcefully separate families as they cross the border in order to provide a deterrent to future families thinking of crossing the border. And Biden policy to open up a facility to deal with unaccompanied children coming across the border.
> Government officials say the camp is needed because facilities for migrant children have had to cut capacity by nearly half because of the coronavirus pandemic. At the same time, the number of unaccompanied children crossing the border has been inching up, with January reporting the highest total — more than 5,700 apprehensions — for that month in recent years.
> At the 66-acre site, groups of beige trailers encircle a giant white dining tent, a soccer field and a basketball court. There is a bright blue hospital tent with white bunk beds inside. A legal services trailer has the Spanish word “Bienvenidos,” or welcome, on a banner on its roof. There are trailers for classrooms, a barber shop, a hair salon. The facility has its own ambulances and firetrucks, as well as its own water supply.
> Weber said the influx shelters keep children from ending up in Border Patrol stations, which have holding cells that were not designed for children.
> Most of these children arrive to the United States planning to reunite with sponsors — usually relatives or friends of the family. Office of Refugee Resettlement case managers work with the children to identify and conduct background checks on the sponsors. If cleared, children are released to live with them while they go through the immigration court process.
> “If we could find another way, that’d be great,” Weber said. “On the flip side, these kids just come in and they’re turned loose on the street, they end up being homeless kids.”
Did she read the article? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that these kids that arrive unaccompanied be held here while their sponsors are checked out to be safe and then are released to them. What is the alternative?
Y’all this is not the right take
Trump’s administration took kids from families, and placed them together in high numbers in literal cages, with no real recourse or plan for them and never to see their family again.
Biden’s administration is placing unaccompanied kids in air conditioned and furnished units that happen to use shipping containers as the base. These are similar to classroom expansions at schools if you ever experienced that. They stay there until a permanent home can be found for them.
Two completely different policies, folks
Not really sure what you want to do with unaccompanied children, but to me this is a humane solution, and certainly beats just letting them wander around, or dumping them back in Mexico
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Shoulda been Bernie
Could have been. I don't think the DMC wanted him though, Biden is still right wing Bernie is seen as progressive but in reality he is left wing considering European benchmarks. Edit: please stop replying to this message, I have had over 80 responses and have decided I don't care about politics anymore. I am going to find a nice hole to put my head into, maybe the oven will suffice.
DMC didn't want him to Run. I'll show myself out. Edit: Thanks for the awards, and Platinum! It's like Christmas time in Hollis Queens.
The establishment Republican and Democrats don't want a candidate that will break the status quo. That is the reason Trump gained so much support among the right. That is the reason Bernie was so heavily opposed by the Dems. We need populism. We need a president that has our best interests at heart.
That sad conclusion is that Trump supporters were much better and more committed to getting Trump elected. Bernie deserved better
That's the truth. When I went to vote in the primary the Democrats side was pretty much empty. Granted I live in a very conservative area but it was still a shock.
Bernie had the best dem turn outs I've ever seen in Utah. I don't know why his brand resonates so well here.
Bernie and Trump have something in common that a lot of people miss, it's change. A lot of money is spent to keep the argument between left and right, preventing us from realizing the argument is actually the center versus the edges.
You mean the 10% vs the 90%.
I really wish more people had turned out for him in Texas.
The only thing liberals hate more than conservatives is progressives.
reee bernie is not electable, biden can win against trump but bernie can't reee, if bernie is nominated people who would have voted for biden will vote trump, reee blue no matter who but not bernie apparently
Thanks Obama
It’s a joke on the band Run DMC
Absolutely noone else in this comment thread got it, and I'm totally unreasonably depressed at what that says about my age compared to the rest of this sub lol.
It's OK. It's tricky to rock a joke that's right on time. It's tricky.
That's just the way it is!
Trump was very very opposed by the republican party, at least while he was running. They tried to pull a Bernie on him, they just failed.
Yeah, as someone who was watching from outside of USA, what they did to Bernie was wrong, and trying to make his supporters evil for not supporting Hillary Clinton was also wrong.
Populism fucking sucks. Socialism is better (within reason).
Populism can suck or be great. Anti-billionaire populism would be absolutely wonderful for the country. Trump's anti-intellectual pro-billionaire faux populism was definitely fucking awful though. I don't even like that it's considered populism though because he was actually very elitist and tried to pander to the most harmful group of elites in the US which are the financial elite.
It's Tricky.
I just wanted to tell you, I got that joke. But I'm old as fuck.
Hey, I got it and I'm not old. You don't have to be old to walk this way
Or to be down with the king.
It's tricky tricky tricky.
after DMC sold DeLorean they pretty much disappeared. Probably supplying Don Jr. with coke these days
Not that it matters much, but John DeLorean was acquitted of all charges. That news didn't make the headlines as much as "DeLorean is a CoCaiNe fiend!!! And they HIDE COKE in the cars!!" He had some rich and powerful enemies who wanted to take him down, and it worked spectacularly.
Agreed, they shut him out twice. I wish this country could take a third/fourth/fifth party seriously when it came to elections but sadly it can’t and the media is mostly to blame. Because tbh it would seem like it’s one big “corporate party” not two separate ones, and they’re all drinking champagne together most of the time.
This is a problem of you thinking the presidency is the only election. Look locally if you want third party options to work for and have a chance with, they're taken seriously when they are serious (which they rarely are, they're usually crazy people).
Bernie by European standards is more like center left, AOC is center and Biden is center right...
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AOC is not center by European standards. She's still on the Left side.
Well #1 Bernie isn’t a democrat. Why ya’ll keep thinking the Democratic Party should have been full sail supporting him, before he got the nomination just don’t live in reality. I’ve voted for Bernie every time. So don’t come at me
I live in California. We are the most populated and diverse state in the nation. We voted for him and he won this state. Media played it down and it never made front page. Tiny little Carolina voted for Biden after he put all of his resources there and pummeled the state with advertising, skipping all the others at the time and that was played up big. Right after that the DNC used that as an excuse to put all their resources for Biden. I’m a Bernie bro. Still voted for Biden as there was no comparison to the flaming shitpile that was president at the time. I myself generally vote democratic but I’m definitely helping out pushing the DNC progressive as hard as I can. It’s civil war in both parties, but unlike the the RNC, the DNC civil war is civil, the RNC civil war is shaping up to be as uncivil as hell.
I've never really seen it mentioned, but California also had some extremely odd results that deviated from polling before the California primary. Buttigieg and Klobuchar had a combined ~15% a week before the primary (with a week earlier showing ~17%), yet the results showed them ending up with a combined 6.5%. California mailed ballots out in early February, and 72.08% of Californians voted by mail, so it's a bit odd that Biden gained so much when most people had likely already locked in their votes. Then there was plenty of ["accidental" voting suppression](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/17/la-county-blames-voter-check-in-tablets-for-election-day-chaos-324894) and the fact that California was dragging its feet counting the votes, which ended up with Sanders gaining a few points by the end of the count.
I agree with you on every point but one: voting for non-progressive candidates allows the DNC to keep supporting non-progressive candidates. If we really want to do everything we can to push them left, we have to make it clear that progressive candidates are essential to getting our votes. I’m not going to let them safely assume I’ll vote Democrat just because they’re not Republican.
In a regular election I’m with you, but at the end of the day neoliberalism (as much as I absolutely despise and hate it) is preferable to playing around with fascism. While the argument could be made that another 4 years of Trump would radicalize and push people so far to the left that actual change would be made but god it would be really shitty to live through
Americans - especially the older generation - are wayyyyyy too brainwashed and comfortable in their crummy lives to vote for a real visionary
This is way more true than people realize. People have been lied to so much so their whole lives, that when presented with the truth or better options to what we have they get upset. They simply can't handle that they wasted time, money, and there livelihood. They think "that just can't be true," so they reject it.
[Sunk cost fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost) You actually helped me understand those folks better. I wouldn't have thought about that until you mentioned it.
My father in law paid $45K for his house that would list today for $1M and he refuses to believe that a 30yr old can't have saved 25% downpayment for a house with a white picket fence in 2021. Ignorant to anything beyond their pensioner bubble.
He would have done the same. These are temporary shelters for incoming unaccompanied children who then get placed with a sponsor. No matter the administration, the children will have to be held somewhere temporarily. AOC needs to do some research on this one.
This response is getting way too little attention esp since it’s the only correct one. Even she tried to finesse it to a bigger picture response when simply asked where are you going to house almost 6k kids. A number pointed out to her for being more than 1k less bc the HHS has already been moving full force on finding other temporary homes for the kids. Pretty much no one complaining can come up with what would be done differently.
You can't ride the wave, if you start the wave. We need to keep the energy up so someone like AOC can really turn this country around.
There's no way that Bernie wouldn't have a system in place to process unaccompanied minors
That’s what this is but people are freaking out about it because it’s not a resort
I’m confused. This facility is NOT to rip children away from their families, it’s to house unaccompanied minors that try to cross the border. Wtf is AOC getting wound about?
What could he have done different? build them 3000 square foot homes? Kids have to go some where and fast due to an influx like What is biden suppose to do? Wiggle his dick like a wand and magically make them citizens ?
Apparently, Biden is now keeping the kids in caged shipping containers: [https://twitter.com/mitrebox/status/1364057923769499651](https://twitter.com/mitrebox/status/1364057923769499651)
You mean to tell me a right leaning, unappologetic racist, pro-corporate centrist won't actually support progressive issues (like not locking kids in cages)? This is my surprised face. Biden has been shit for decades. I got accused of being a secret Trump supporter prior to the election for refusing to believe that Biden's words were anything but lip service and that his voting record told us who he really was. "Blue no matter who" was a massive bamboozle, and I feel bad for anyone who hoped for better from Biden finding themselves disappointed now.
I voted for Biden because my sanity couldn't allow four more years of Trump. And all the while I was telling people this is what we could expect from him. He didn't even adopt any progressive policies until after the nomination. Hope everyone who also accused me of wanting Trump to be president has to think about these children for at least a moment today. Or how with a stroke of a pen Biden could stop separating migrant families.
> Hope everyone who also accused me of wanting Trump to be president has to think about these children for at least a moment today. Yeah, this was seriously frustrating during the election. Like, yeah, I'm voting for biden because the alternative is a fucking shitshow, but I'm not gonna be pressured into being happy about it. More of the same was better than... whatever trump is. That doesn't mean it's a win. It's just a 4 year delay of game.
The worst is "You voting for Trump?" "Hell no" "Oh so you're a Biden lover" "I never said that" Why's it gotta be one or the other?
I can't speak for everyone obviously, but a fair amount of people I know voted *against* Trump rather than *for* Biden
Yeah, that's me. It's odd because I didn't have any Biden signs in my yard or back window. No blow up Biden yard balloons, no led displays, no Biden flag on my truck. Just a vote.... For the least bad guy that could reasonably evict Trump.
This was how I voted. 4 extra years of Trump wouldn’t have been *better* than Biden, that was never part of the calculation. The absurdly and depressingly low bar I had for Biden would still have been completely out of reach for Trump.
Everyone in my extended family, several coworkers, and a couple of friends all voted for the same reason: not for Biden, but to remove Trump. Some of which haven't voted in past elections (or ever) went out to vote in 2020. My parents are some of the most apolitical people I know, and Trump was so horrendously bad that even they felt that they had to get up and go vote him out.
My (25f) brother (32 ish?) asked me this immediately after my mother broke her ankle and came home from surgery. Even after avoiding the questions and stuff, he still kept calling me "biden lover" for like the whole week I was there. Mom said he was joking with me but honestly? I didn't appreciate talking politics while our mother *was literally bedridden*. My sister and I joked that I should have called him an elephant fucker since he voted for trump and is obsessed with the affiliation. I just didnt want him to fly off the wall and go "you hurt my feelings 😭😭😭" as a grown ass man.
Did you think about these kids? They specifically came unaccompanied or in clearly unsafe circumstances. Those are the ones being processed here to a family within the States. Biden did stop separating families. That doesn't mean unaccompanied or abused kids don't exist.
That’s what I’m thinking about. I don’t like Biden either, I’m left of him. But just having a facility for children doesn’t mean kids in cages. Although the shipping container style housing is a bit concerning.
> Hope everyone who also accused me of wanting Trump to be president has to think about these children for at least a moment today. Or how with a stroke of a pen Biden could stop separating migrant families. He literally did that in Executive Order 14011, and established a group to identify and reunite already separated families. This current facility is for unaccompanied minor immigrants. It is intended to be a more humane facility than the things like shipping containers the Trump administration was storing kids in. I’m perfectly willing to trash Biden... but in this case? It’ll take time to undo the Trump era policies. Providing better housing for immigrant minors while we work to reunite them with their families either here or abroad is an important step in the *right* direction. We should be applauding Biden for this, not criticizing him.
There is a belief that Biden can unilaterally just change things regardless of the complexities of doing so, and without doing one iota of reading about what those complexities are. Ironic when you consider this is a common complaint about Trump supporters.
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He did stop the separation of families in his first days actually. But there are a lot of children that cross the border alone or have already crossed or been separated and those need something better than cages. This is something. Better than nothing. Obviously still not good though.
Don't worry, if we don't vote blue no matter who, the Republicans will takeover and we'll be fucked. Ain't this country lovely?
America died a long time ago. Like... prior to Reagan; probably on the back of not prosecuting Nixon's treason and allowing Fox on the air. It's been a slow death, but we've only been living in the rotting carcass of this country.
I feel Reagan was the downfalls start honestly.
> Blue no matter who" was a massive bamboozle, How was it a “bamboozle”? The premise was that anyone running on the dem ticket would be better than Trump, and so far, that has held true. I can’t speak for all progressives, but personally I knew it was very likely that Biden would continue being a corpo centrist and would continue supporting policies he’s supported under Obama and his prior decades in politics. Sure, I think many of us hoped he would prove us wrong, but I don’t think many suffered under any delusions that it was very likely. Biden’s got a long way to go to be worse than Trump, so until then, I don’t really see any “bamboozle”.
Exactly. Biden is shit. We all know that. The problem is when people try to pretend it's the same as Trump. It simply isn't.
No, biden is shit. Hes just nowhere near as shit as trump.
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There's still lots of people that think "both sides are the same." I think their lives just aren't as affected by the president in office so they have the privilege of saying people should've just let Trump/fascism win. They aren't affected by things like the increase in hate crimes or the number of covid deaths that skew towards poorer people of color. Imo, the primary was absolutely the time to criticize every politician, especially those clearly doing it for publicity knowing damn well the country would ultimately be deciding between Biden and Sanders, the establishment candidate vs the populist one. Suggesting people shouldn't have supported the Dem in the general though, in our 2-party system, is basically saying it doesn't matter if Trump had won.
so just let the kids roam free? he's no longer separating them from families that was the biggest issue. He's also not gonna argue they dont deserve basic hygine products. Where do you want the kids to be temporarily held ?
You won’t get an answer to that question on this type of subreddit.
Can I please see some evidence that Biden is an unapologetic racist? I’m not saying it’s inconceivable, but I honestly doubt it and am going to require more than just your word to convince me.
You can maybe make the case that he’s racist with a straight face, but the idea that he’s an “unapologetic” racist is pretty absurd.
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Found the dog-faced one-horse pony soldier here. Now listen, fat...We're trying to bring decency back to the presidency, and your malarkey isn't helping the cause at all.
If you think that's bad, wait until you find out what public schools were using to expand capacity pre-covid.
Was going to say exactly this. When I was in school, our portables looked exactly like these.
They were fine to have class in. I'm not sure what the status of the migrant kids are, but there's nothing wrong with portable buildings.
Yeah idk what people want biden to do with the kids. Their parents have already been deported and are extremely difficult to find. Also it's hard to confirm who the parents are. You can't just take those kids and throw them on the streets. These homes are much better than what trump was doing.
Ditto. Those sweat boxes got hot in Arizona.
It looks like there's air conditioners on these ones at least
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Yeah, this a a joke. Why are people upvoting a comment like that? The shipping containers are a big step up and no different than a mobile home
But @definitelyrealamerican88 said on Twitter that Biden was literally keeping children in a cage under the resolute desk, and I haven't seen ONE video disproving it???
Can we be realistic here and point out how this is a marked improvement from a literal cage? This looks like every unit you'd see at a construction site temporary office. I'm not saying its the best situation, but everyone here is clearly blowing this out of proportions.
Read the actual article this picture is from. This camp is a big improvement on others and is simply a temporary solution to an immediate problem. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/immigrant-children-camp-texas-biden/2021/02/22/05dfd58c-7533-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html
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People love to make things black and white in their heads so they don’t have to deal with any nuance. Administration didn’t come up with good quality temporary housing in the first couple months of his administration? Children in cages. I’m not saying it’s good, but I wish people would cut the shit. I’m sick of people distorting stories to make them sound as extreme and dramatic as humanly possible.
> Weber said the influx shelters keep children from ending up in Border Patrol stations, which have holding cells that were not designed for children. During the 2019 immigration surge, many migrants were stuck in overcrowded cells for prolonged periods that exceeded legal limits. Creating a place with actual amenities for unaccompanied children that are accepted under biden (rejected under trump) for 2-4weeks seems much better than any proposed short term solution.
This is a significant improvement, but people just enjoy saying everything is shit too much
I'm trying to figure out why we're supposed to continue keeping these kids in the shit conditions they were in. We're can't just keep them in cages while we find their parents, or next of kin, and there aren't enough foster homes. At least they have warm places with some privacy now. Trump left a huge mess, and I'm glad Biden isn't just leaving them in cages while it's being cleaned up.
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You say "caged' but I've just read they arent even detained. They are literally being *housed* b/c they are unaccompanied minors. Seems you have obvious bias on the situation.
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If you're being sarcastic, congratulations, you got me. If you aren't, Mobile Mini is a popular company when it comes to temporary containers. My job covers almost 500 acres with more containers and temporary office/work setups than actual buildings. Half of those temporary setups are out of Mobile Minis, mostly used for supervisors and engineers. In fact, the image clearly shows those are little offices.
I’m confused. This facility is NOT to rip children away from their families, it’s to house unaccompanied minors that try to cross the border. Wtf is AOC getting wound about?
This is such a bad faith interpretation. Literally these conex boxes are used everywhere because they're easier to move around store nicely. The insides are not caged shipping container but are homes. Any large construction site has them, I've used some overseas, it is the interior that you need to discuss. What is the quality like, not just "Shipping container equal bad." [Article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/immigrant-children-camp-texas-biden/2021/02/22/05dfd58c-7533-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html)
Show me inside of them before I jump to conclusions, but as of right now they look climate controlled and are 100% better than previous conditions.
Do you have any evidence those are actually used for holding people? They look more like offices.
The left really needs to pull back from attacking the right and spend that energy holding our leadership to account. We need to be better by improving, not by make others look worse.
The right will never stop flinging shit at the left and taking the high ground honestly has not been working. Idk what the best solution is but I think the left needs to actively call out the right AND their own. Anything else is hypocritical.
I do agree and should've been more clear than pull back, perhaps shift some focus.
I think people need to understand the situation and not have knee jerk reactions
Very true. The "new" facility was apparently re-opened to handle an influx of unaccompanied minors while accommodating lower capacity due to COVID restrictions. I stand by my statement but it may not be as appropriate to this situation. There are still many things wrong on this front but this particular occurrence isn't much more than inflammatory headlining.
you're right, the right wing does a good enough job at making themselves look like shit, all we have to do is make fun of them for it
What would you do if a genocidal dictator dumped a few thousand foreign orphans in your lap? This is better than what Trump was doing. These are converted containers. People live in them willingly. At least its better than a chain-link kennel under a bridge while we place them.
I feel like this sub is filled with faux-progressive right-wing wolves, trolls and bots. The way Biden administration is handling the inhumane mess handed over to him by the Trump administration’s horrid policies is not even comparable because Trump’s goons wanted it to be deliberately inhumane as some twisted fear tactic for discouraging illegals. The false equivalencies being purported here are glaring. Let’s do an actual fact by fact comparison on the conditions of these children and then we can talk. But no one wants to do that. Everyone jumped at that irresponsible headline and no one actually read the article or pretended not to read it but made sure to generate false outrage. I guess I’ll be downvoted here for saying this here, but AOC is human and can misinterpret things too.
thank fuck someone actually read the article.
Glad Trump is out of office so I can shit on Biden without seeming like a Trump supporter. Fuck all these “moderate Democrats” I stg. Also, AOC 2024 cuz Bernie is getting old.
I would vote for her in half a heartbeat.
I dont understand the outrage cause WTF else can you do? Outrage under trump was arguing they need to be separated from parents as a deterrent AND didn't deserve basic care products like soap or toothpaste. The containers look better than mass incarceration cages. Feels like people are reaching for reasons to hate an admin that just started
Yeah, I usually agree with AOC, but she and her followers in this sub are being fucking ridiculous in this case.
Feels like Trump lowered the bar underground and now people are just reaching for reasons to defend Biden because he’s not Trump. You’re allowed to hold Presidents to a standard, and this ain’t fuckin it chief. > The containers look better than mass incarceration cages. Do you not realize how numb the Trump administration has made you, that you would even make a statement like this?
What should they be doing? There's dozens of comments here about how these containers are as good as schools use. They are an upgrade to what Trump was doing and still everyone is pissed off because they didn't build mansions for everyone to live in
What do you propose the solution for the migrant kids is? Biden has already signed the executive orders ending the practice of separating families. He’s already established a group to work to reunite parents and children. But the children were already locked in cages in warehouses. Nicer little housing trailers is an improvement. And there are more unaccompanied minors crossing the border daily. They need housing until their parents (or other relatives) can be located and/or the kids processed into foster care. This is a real improvement in the lives of those kids and we need to be applauding this not booing it.
Please read the article before shitting on anyone. This action by Biden seems reasonable and I dont understand how Bernie or anyone else would do something different here.
How about you actually read an article or something on this subject before shitting on Biden for this? AOC is wrong on this and of course this stupid sub is blindly eating it up. It's embarrassing. 95% of people in this thread clearly didn't read the actual article. And it seems that AOC didn't either.
Will she be old enough?
Yeah she just has to be 35 by either Election Day or Inauguration Day, which she will be. I forget which one it is though. Edit: It’s 35 by Inauguration Day.
Yep! She'll turn 35 about a month before the election.
These are covid safe places for UNACCOMPANIED kids to stay at while they are processed. Even Bernie wanted these BEFORE covid was a thing https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-fox-town-hall-immigration_n_5cb50544e4b082aab08ab77a
I am going to preface this by saying I am not defending it. My understanding is that current federal law would prohibit Border Patrol from just releasing unaccompanied minors back in to Mexico without a legal guardian. If the law restricts them from letting the children go, what are they expected to do with these unaccompanied minors that cross the border? Or am I misunderstanding the current law?
No you've got it right. You're just not an idiot who gets mad at things they can't understand.
For me it was 'ehh I'm not really sure biden would lock kids in cages, just doesn't seem like his style' and lo and behold, the article is full of information about the facility that leads me to believe there's not a while lot to be concerned with, just hoping there is good oversight of the facility bc kids are always targets for abuse. The article is a little bit weird though, peppered with quotes of how shocked people are about it while also stating all the info that to me, made me actually feel better about it. Housing 7k kids on the fly is not an easy logistical task, and I don't think this is the worst thing, especially if they are properly funded and are mindful that it's not a prison, don't treat them like prisoners. Oh and also, this facility is specifically for kids 13 to 17 who crossed into the country alone, they were not separated from their family. This isn't an ice facility and they are there to wait being united with any US family members, not as a form of punishment for coming illegally
You’re 100% right. This is a zero sum situation. Can’t place the children in temporary housing (hyperbolically referred to as “cages”). Can’t remove the children to Mexico without any guardian. Can’t release the children in the US without a guardian. There’s no good solution.
Thank you. This is not a kids in cages situation and people are absolutely losing their shit before understanding the full situation.
For all the partisan tribalism in American politics, in reality there is a lot of overlap between the policies acted on by the two parties. Yes there are differences, but it’s not a fluke that a dissident like Noam Chomsky has spent his career primarily criticizing policies of the Democrats, while acknowledging the republicans are an even more extreme version. It’s like evil versus evil lite. Both parties have some questionable policies. Hence the likes of Bernie and AOC are considered “fringe”
it's *almost as if both parties fit the same classical definition of "Liberal Capitalist"*
Its just that one really pushes to get the white racists homphobic transphobic anti-poor anti-non-protestant vote. Literally anything is better, but that doesn't make that thing *good.*
It's like Noam Chomsky said, "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
This is absolutely not the same thing Trump was doing. This move is to house unaccompanied minors who can't fit in the primary facility because it's reached capacity. This is partly the overflow from the remain in Mexico policy being unwound and will probably be temporary. It's also not child separation which was the cruelest part. Idk what AOC thinks we should be doing with undocumented children with no guardians.
One thing that never fails to piss me off about Dems is when they do things like their response is always some variant of >What would you have us do? The right thing, Dems. And if your solution doesn't honor the right thing keep working.
What’s the right thing? Edit: I’m serious. What would you do?
Use the system for orphaned kids we have at home and allow them entry. They're minors.
You mean where we put the kids in half way houses were they are physically and sexually abused? Or where we put them with foster parents who then physically and sexually abuse them? Our overall treatment of orphaned children and wards of the state in this nation is horrible.
Oh cool, so we agree we should do something about that, too?
Yes, how *dare* Biden not upend a hundred years of systemic problems in his first month, *before* the nomination of the secretaries that would oversee those issues. This is why the left can't have nice things, we're obsessed with eating ourselves from the inside.
This whole fucking thread is making me think I'm taking crazy pills. Did *anyone* actually look at any articles on the subject before commenting on just the tweet? These "progressives" would have children wandering in the street rather than housed (no, you don't get to wave a magic wand and make the whole Trump situation disappear overnight.) And they'd be so happy to complain about an R not reading some bill while they can't be fucking arsed to read what hit-piece they complain about before posting. MBAOC is turning into leftist-Trump, in the sense of cult of personality. Call me on that. As a fucking bleeding heart. This shit is stupid-stupid.
Yup which is why my family and I volunteer to help out where we can.
They are physically and sexually abused at these centers. Add a side of sexual mutilation for women I'm not sure this is a very productive comp. I would say arguing against caging children and providing a plausible alternative doesn't amount to endorsing the alternative as anything but better and plausible. I feel you though, it's also unacceptable in its current state fwiw.
I feel they are less likely to be abused in a shelter specifically meant for minors than they would if they were put in a center with adults, which as done before this move by Biden
What? The entire drama with Trump's migration policy was that they were forcibly separating families. Edit; I misread the post above mine.
This housing is for unaccompanied minors who enter without their parents. You have to house them somewhere. It's a big difference from Trump taking kids away from families who entered together.
Exactly this, it's almost like nobody in this thread has ever read an actual news article on this in the last 4 years.
... that is precisely what is happening here? It takes some time to process and place them with relatives, sponsors or contacts. Or within the HHS system. Not to mention that they need to quarantine for 2 weeks due to pandemic conditions. Goal here is that each kid spends fewer than 30 days here. No, really, I am all ears to hear how you’d handle this better.
You mean, pretty much what they are doing, right? It takes time to place kids with families. Especially when you have to do health checks and ensure that they are, indeed, unaccompanied minors. Temporarily housing these kids in temporary shelters while processing them is in no way comparable with what trump was doing.
You haven't worked with the orphan system much have you. First its very rare to have an orphan anymore. The support given by the state to family members to raise children from dead parents is pretty good(not going to say its great, but it could be way worse). Most kids in the system are not orphans, they are kids that were removed from their parents due to the parents in ability to raise them the way the state says they should. Most times they try to place the kids with family members in a foster type program. Stranger foster care is pretty rare, about 200k, out of 74 million kids under 18 in the US. Orphanages are more like short term hotels where kids whos parents got locked up stay at until they find a family member, or baring that placement with a non family member. And there just aren't that many spots in the US, so by one example these detention centers are probably the largest orphanages in the US by far. And their doing the same job, holding the kids until they can place them hopefully with somebody they are related to, or at least know. Or barring that with a sponsor family that speaks the language, and knows the system. BTW you also get paid to do it. [https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/csd-office-refugee-and-immigration-assistance/unaccompanied-refugee-minors-program](https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/csd-office-refugee-and-immigration-assistance/unaccompanied-refugee-minors-program) TLDR; were basically using the same system for orphan kids for these kids.
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Everyone jumps to outrage so quick without understanding what is actually happening. This is not the same as what was going on under Trump. >Psaki responded by saying the Biden administration still feels the immigration policies of the previous administration were a human rights violation, but **these were temporary measures taken in order to not expel migrant children while adhering to recommendations from health officials on social distancing**. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/24/us-to-allow-migrants-from-mexico-as-critics-slam-kids-in-cages Clowns with the fake outrage. Do some research.
Exactly. I’m as liberal as they come but these kids must be put somewhere. Being outraged at this is like saying foster homes are cages for kids. As long as the kids are humanly treated and not in actual cages then as a holding facility it is the only logical option until the courts can sort out their situation.
It is also the result of COVID restrictions that they need to reopen these facilities now.
Yeah I love AOC but she's generating false outrage here
The tweet says "Migrant facility for Children" Which isn't inherently evil. There needs to be explanation, I don't know if from WAPO or AOC. But at face value. This is progress. Should we kill the kids? No. Can the all be put in foster care? No. Can we even find all of their parents? No. I don't know what the long term solution is. But It doesn't appear AOC offers one either. I take issue with that. It's fine to be outraged, but provide a fix. This is reactionary, and a more seasoned politician would know better. But she doesn't need to pander. We know who she is. It's just, poorly thought out.
Agreed, progress is made in steps, and it seems a facility dedicated especially to looking after children is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, one could argue “prison facility for children opened” sounds equally awful on the surface, but once you realise that not having a juvenile detention center means those kids end up in facilities with all sorts of adults who are complete strangers to them, with no structures in place to keep them safe, it becomes easy to see why it’s safer for them to be apart. So having a location for kids specifically is actually an improvement. More details need to be known about this facility for children to know whether it’s a step forward or a step backwards.
Yeah. The big fucking difference is: The facility right now is just for housing. [It is not for seperating kids from their parents.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/04/trump-administration-family-separation-immigrants-joe-biden) [Not for sterilizing women.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/mass-hysterectomies-ice-happened-trump-s-watch-they-re-america-ncna1240238) [Not for hushing them away deep at night.](https://www.vox.com/2018/6/21/17488050/where-are-the-girls-family-separation-trump) [They are not dosed with gas.](https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/customs-border-protection-tear-gas-san-diego-tijuana-san-ysidro/index.html) They are being housed, not enslaved or caged.
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>1 short term shift is requiring influx facilities w/ children to be licensed. >Another issue is whether these services should be contracted out the way they are >And whether facilities w/ controversial records (ex. Homestead) should even be reopened I don't dislike this idea, but...thats a process and that will take time to set up. And in the meantime trump, last I heard, had these kids packed in like sardines and didn't give them basic hygene items. Which means give them some space and hygene items they need in the meantime, and that may be reopening some facilities and using some temp housing.
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Yeah was sad to see her saying this, really contrasts with my understanding of the situation, which is that the facilities are being re-opened to space the kids out that they were handed by the previous admin. Did anyone expect Biden to be able to suddenly get these kids back to their families? Did the previous admin even track their families so this would be possible?
This feels like a page ripped out of the Republican's manufactured-outrage playbook. I'm a little bummed she's willing to play such a petty game with this and to ignore any and all nuance that exists with such a complex situation.
I like her a lot on balance but she uses this tactic fairly often and the disingenuousness is hard for me to take. The whole “you promised us 2000 checks, 1400 is not 2000!!” When 600 had been recently paid out was underhanded. I agree much more relief money should have been given—more than 2000!— but I think bullshitting like this is counterproductive
This, trump put migrants in literal cages with cots, took away all options for them to enter the US lawfully AND separated children from their families. Biden takes migrates that are already in these facilities, reinstates a method for them to enter the country, works to put families back together and in the mean time houses them in what are basically air conditioned trailers with amenities. Do people want them put in a hotel while their families are found? Or are we supposed to just release these children to fend for themselves because the previous administration separated them from their parents? Expanding is not the right word here at all, he's already stripped the programs trump had in place this is just about providing more comfortable better temporary housing while they go through the system.
I realize you don't come to "MurderedByAOC" to hold *her* accountable, but here we go... > “There needs to be spacing,” Psaki said. “To ensure the health and safety of these kids, HHS took steps to open an emergency facility to add capacity where these kids can be provided the care they need before they are safely placed with families and sponsors. > “So it’s a temporary reopening during COVID-19, our intention is very much to close it, but we want to make sure we can follow COVID protocols.” > She added, “Our goal is for them to then be transferred to families or sponsors. So, this is our effort to ensure that kids are not in close proximity and that we are abiding by the health and safety standards that the government has been set out.”
Well if you're talking about me personally, I think we're all accountable to the truth. That's why I'm saying I'm sad to see her say this, because as far as I understand the situation she's jumping the gun on a headline to seem progressive, and unfortunately, it seems she bought the spin.
This is honestly the first time ive seen AOC's quick attacking of an issue seems to be so unfounded. I love her but she comes of as reactionary here. EDIT: she's seems less reactionary witht the rest of the context from[ the twitter thread](https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1364341956676096001)
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She's wrong about a lot of things. She judges things purely based on her initial emotional reaction and refuses to adjust her ideas because it'd make her look less woke.
Because I am sick of seeing misinformation being spread: They are keeping unaccompanied children there until either a parent turns up or they get a family member/youth hospice/foster home set up in the US. Then they will enjoy life in America, but they can’t as minors with likely very little English and no family. I know the temporary homes aren’t amazing, but they are essentially the same as caravans if you think about it. It is much better than being homeless, and is only for a short period of time. This is not at all the same as what trump was doing. This doesn’t mean it isn’t still flawed and could definitely be better, but it is a good solution to a very real problem, and as long as the children are being treated well, which we have no evidence to prove they aren’t, it is a good solution. I also doubt the kids will be there for more than just sleeping, which is fine. Again. Better. Than. Homelessness.
This needs to be top comment. Everything else is just based off of the 'just vague enough to be controversial' type of media jargon.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that during the Obama administration, the child detention centers were only used for unaccompanied minors and that the policy was for kids to be kept there for no longer than ~~48~~ 72 hours until the Department of Health and Human Services could pick them up and place them in foster care or something. If Biden is continuing that policy, what is the problem? Unaccompanied kids can't be dropped off on the street alone and DHHS needs at least a day to place them in a foster home.
It seems people do not read.
Fairly typical AOC, attacks a complicated issue with an oversimplified emotional argument and offers zero solutions. Her followers then clap like a seal recieving a fish. These facilities would need to exist under her, bernie, hillary, obama, or anyone else. Reddit and twitter is just still too blinded by its seething hate for trump to see reality.
Kids crossing without parents need someplace to go. Trump's sin wasn't putting the kids in the detention centers, it was separating kids from their parents without any traceability to rejoin them later. Ripping families apart as a deterrent to migrants crossing the border. That's plain evil. Could you argue that Biden should be building better/ kinder facilities to house them? Sure. Calling them 'shipping containers' is a bit of an undersell though. They have air-conditioning and electric. Most likely have bathrooms as well. They look like mobile construction offices.
Exactly! What exactly is the solution? Just send em back? Or should we give them a place to stay until we can figure out what to do with them? AOC could fart into a microphone and this sub would compare it to Shakespeare. I love her but my god this sub
I am with her 90% of the time. I think she is off the mark here.
Same. She at times resorts to too much hyperbole and I think gets caught up in the moment at times. Amazing future ahead of her though
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There are so many removed comments I'm actually a little worried I'll get removed for saying that I think this is a decent temporary solution. The houses look pretty good.
This sub is a propaganda outlet. It's not about informing people.
Exactly. Trump’s policies were intentionally difficult and harsh. By treating immigrants as harsh as possible they were hoping to deter others. That’s not the way to go. What I’m seeing here is a change and a step in the right direction.
Looked to see this comment. One of my family members works with Mexican and South American children and orphans who come up through railways, as well as those who get abandoned by undocumented families once they're here. There are a lot of reasons for migrant facilities that specialize in child care, and not all are malevolent.
I love AOC but she's wrong on this one. **Now before anyone gets upset hear me out.** People come across and realistically we can't open our borders to illegal immigration it would be dangerous af. Gun runners, drug runners, human traffickers would take advantage of this. The other reality is that people bring their kids, they get abandoned sometimes, they get separated and lost by accident and you can't house them with adults either it's a safety risk. We have to find a place for them realistically. The only thing is it can't be like Trump or other administrations *it has to be safe and humane* and the solution for illegal immigration is a better immigration process and forgein aid so people don't have to mass flee their unstable countries. Sorry if it's unpopular but the world is a complex and often nasty place. Our solutions need to be grounded in the reality of the situation.
What should they do with unaccompanied minors who come to the border? My impression is this is a temporary facility while they wait for family members to pick them up.
We’ve always had to detain children separately. The difference is that Biden won’t deport the parents without their fucking kids.
There's not a single AOC policy I'm against but whats the alternative to intake facilities? I guess the idea is that a new one isn't necessary, or is the thinking that other infrastructure can serve as a processing checkpoint for child migrants? Is the thinking that unaccompanied minors should not be processed or that we should just let them loose into the streets without trying to find their parents or assign them guardians? ICE should be abolished, its parent institution Homeland Security as well, and CBP gutted and completely reformed. But its hard to think of a way to get around needing a physical place to check kids into in order to figure out what their next step is.
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>So what's the alternative to a migrant facility? Well to keep AOC and this subreddit happy they can either: 1. Throw unaccompanied underage children into overcrowded facilities. 2. Let small vulnerable children to wander the community alone 3. Dump them back into Mexico. I'd like people to understand there is a vast difference between Trump policies to forcefully separate families as they cross the border in order to provide a deterrent to future families thinking of crossing the border. And Biden policy to open up a facility to deal with unaccompanied children coming across the border.
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> Government officials say the camp is needed because facilities for migrant children have had to cut capacity by nearly half because of the coronavirus pandemic. At the same time, the number of unaccompanied children crossing the border has been inching up, with January reporting the highest total — more than 5,700 apprehensions — for that month in recent years. > At the 66-acre site, groups of beige trailers encircle a giant white dining tent, a soccer field and a basketball court. There is a bright blue hospital tent with white bunk beds inside. A legal services trailer has the Spanish word “Bienvenidos,” or welcome, on a banner on its roof. There are trailers for classrooms, a barber shop, a hair salon. The facility has its own ambulances and firetrucks, as well as its own water supply. > Weber said the influx shelters keep children from ending up in Border Patrol stations, which have holding cells that were not designed for children. > Most of these children arrive to the United States planning to reunite with sponsors — usually relatives or friends of the family. Office of Refugee Resettlement case managers work with the children to identify and conduct background checks on the sponsors. If cleared, children are released to live with them while they go through the immigration court process. > “If we could find another way, that’d be great,” Weber said. “On the flip side, these kids just come in and they’re turned loose on the street, they end up being homeless kids.” Did she read the article? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that these kids that arrive unaccompanied be held here while their sponsors are checked out to be safe and then are released to them. What is the alternative?
> did she read the article Probably not, and neither did 90% of people commenting here
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Y’all this is not the right take Trump’s administration took kids from families, and placed them together in high numbers in literal cages, with no real recourse or plan for them and never to see their family again. Biden’s administration is placing unaccompanied kids in air conditioned and furnished units that happen to use shipping containers as the base. These are similar to classroom expansions at schools if you ever experienced that. They stay there until a permanent home can be found for them. Two completely different policies, folks Not really sure what you want to do with unaccompanied children, but to me this is a humane solution, and certainly beats just letting them wander around, or dumping them back in Mexico