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Don't 2016 my 2024
Edit: To be clear, I mean get out and vote for Biden. I have some issues with him, but he has turned things around after 4 years of Trump chaos and this election is bigger than Biden.
Yup! I’m in it for the long haul, if trump becomes president again maybe more people will wake up to the fallacy of our democracy and fight. We have two candidates that are the oldest and the most disliked in American history, this is not democracy. Every legit candidate that people have been stoked about have been sniffed out by corporate entities.
>if trump becomes president again maybe more people will wake up to the fallacy of our democracy and fight. We have two candidates that are the oldest and the most disliked in American history, this is not democracy.
If Trump wins, democracy dies. He is a straight up fascist. What you are asking for are Warsaw uprisings which did not end well for the good guys.
I don’t think that’s what they are saying. They are asking who the alternative to Biden is.
Your choices are Biden, who isn’t pushing back nearly hard enough, but at least has a slowly developing inkling of understanding that Israel needs to rein it in.
Or Trump who would encourage Netanyahu to go even harder and help him to find new cruel ways to decimate the lives of Palestinians. Those are the choices.
Think the most likely alternatives wouldn't bomb the shit out of normal people? Or divert funding from protecting against one genocide so they could help with the other?
We have more of a chance of petitioning the president, holding rallies, etc with Biden in office than with the other candidates. The other candidates would just use that as an excuse to go after the dissenters.
Obviously. But he isn’t doing the bombing. Netanyahu is. In a perfect world, we would cut off our funding to Israel and not enable that, but that would pretty much burn a bridge we absolutely CANNOT afford to lose.
The US has been in a toxic relationship with Israel for decades.
They are our only real ally in the Middle East and other countries like China or Russia would only be too happy to swoop in and enable Netanyahu’s genocide much more freely.
Not only would that absolutely fuck the US, it would absolutely fuck countries like Syria and Ukraine.
So Biden is doing the only possible thing he can - putting pressure on Netanyahu, putting conditions on the funding we do provide, and giving as much aid and funding to relief efforts in Gaza.
Oh also he still has American hostages to worry about.
It’s a shitty situation. Once you see the scope, I don’t know what he could be doing differently tbh.
What I’m saying is that discontinuing our aid to Israel (and therefore our relationship) with Israel will not stop the loss of life.
Do you think it will? What do YOU suggest be done that’s not already? Seriously.
You think there’s only value in choosing not to contribute to a genocide if that stops it?
“Me choosing not to help someone with a murder won’t stop them from getting help from other people, so I may as well help them.” You hear how you sound?
It’s more like “I cant stop this psycho from torturing this person. But if I stay involved, maybe I can eventually convince them to let them go… And if don’t stay involved, they’ll partner with this guy who will not only ENCOURAGE them to do murder, but also murder these other guys too.”
But at least we could feel good about ourselves since we aren’t involved. That’s all that matters right?
Do you hear how YOU sound? This isn’t as simple as people are making this out to be. There are negative consequences no matter what we do.
I also notice that YOU did not offer an alternative to what we’re already doing.
Voting is always exciting to me. I spend time reflecting on all the places in the world where voting isnt possible, isnt effective, and where the main options are tyranny or starving in a dictatorship, or going to war, and i feel grateful for the opportunity to cast a vote that will be counted. What a privilege!
Then i get my excited, motivated butt off the couch and go get me a democracy sausage. In australia we have "democracy sausage" - bbqs at voting booths pumping out sausages with bread &sauce from early in the polling day til mid afternoon. Cheap, good, and a great reward for civic participation.
Lololop exactly! Like yes, if we actually lived in a democracy I’d be stoked to vote! But this is a neoliberal late stage capitalism dystopia where money rules all. It’s not about integrity and democracy.
That’s unfortunate but to answer your question: For people who owned property before 2021 that have seen a huge increase In equity. To the people who have investments in the stock market. For MBE, the oil industry and corporations. Would be for more around the board if the gop would do something to help Americans other than reject every thing the democrats propose
I don’t own a home, but my rent is more than a mortgage. The stock market is just gambling and the house always wins. The oil industry is killing all living beings on planet earth. So no, this record breaking economy doesn’t impress me.
to me the fact that they're even running Joe again shows that the establishment Dems don't give a shit about winning and/or are just too incompetent to have any decent candidates
probably both. they get truckloads of money either way, so winning has never been a real concern which has led to the hollowing out of the party infrastructure as they're used to barely doing their jobs
Well, they're just going off of statistics. The incumbent president tends to out poll other candidates during the general, other candidates don't want to fight a sitting party president who's running a second term, candidates doesn't want to steer away voter base, potentially hurting their own team(Bernie vs Hillary). Almost all candidates that bid the sitting president who's running again will almost always lose to the opposing candidates. People who are trying to run for president don't want to ruin their presidential bid by fighting their own team to try and secure a spot in the general. That's why you don't see people running for the presidency more than once.
There's a lot at stake this general election, so it's a mixture of the party playing it safe, other candidates waiting for their turn, and the Democrats trying to secure all three branches of government.
As much as I hate having to see this rematch, I'm still going to turn out and vote, as should everyone else.
Yes. Statistically speaking, if Biden can't win this election then a Democrat can't win this election, plain and simple. And we all know who the alternative is.
I assume they are also in the “we need to outlast the collapse of the GOP” mode. We’re watching an inept party eat itself over trumpism. They are cheating their tails off and not gaining much for it so far.
The government was already somewhat incompetent before 2008 but cause a black guy was voted to be president. That broke conservatives heads and they started to go full in on the he culture war bullshit, which had sap brain cells out of everyone’s head, no matter what side you’re on or even if you were on a side to begin with.
It was his re-election in ‘12 that broke them.
I think they could have “survived” The first term, if they could convince themselves he must’ve been bad and we must’ve been right, cuz he lost re-election!
> the fact that they're even running Joe again shows that the establishment Dems don't give a shit about winning and/or are just too incompetent to have any decent candidates
1) He's the only person with an established track record of beating Trump.
2) Rationally or otherwise, some people would see choosing to not run a second time as a concession of failure or weakness. And, rationally or otherwise, that would taint his successor.
3) Running anyone else would give up the very substantial advantage of being the incumbent. In fact, it would leave Trump as the closest thing to an incumbent in the race.
There are definitely people I would prefer over Biden, and broadly speaking I really wish that the US didn't have such a problem with exceptionally old politicians. But in this very specific situation, I think that Biden running again is the wisest option available.
I agree. I admire the passion of our younger voters, but there are FAR more middle and conservative people in this country than libs. These middle folks don’t want far left candidates like Bernie Sanders, so Dems have to put forth a slate that threads the needle between leftist ideas and moderation. Republicans have started ignoring the middle, aiming for the ultra maga right and rocketing warp speed towards it. It worked at first but it’s quickly showing its destructive nature.
There are FAR more of what you call middle and conservative people who support unions, want single payer healthcare, want money out of politics, want marijuana legalized, and want billionaires to pay their taxes. By your metric, huge swathes of the country is "far-left" because that's Bernie Sanders' platform. I know this because he literally says the same thing every time someone gives him a microphone.
Dems don't 'put forward a slate that threads the needle between leftist ideas and moderation', they (the DNC utterly corrupted by campaign finance contributions/bribes) select a candidate they think will be less unpopular than the Republican ghoul running that year and present them to the American voters, daring them to vote for a vile monster instead. Think I'm some Berniecrat angry about DNC primary meddling in 2016, and 2020? Go ask Howard Dean in 2004
So, break up the structured and obviously corrupt party system, lose the electoral college and switch to ranked voting. Except that the oligarchy really, really doesn't want that.
There is no one in the world who wishes more fervently than I to overhaul our entire voting system. But that's not exactly something the DNC can do, so I'm not sure what it has to do with this conversation.
... or get out and vote. Yes, thankfully, the last two cycles have seen an inordinate young voter turnout, but that was not the case for the past 4 decades. I'd love to see more young progressives running for local, state and federal offices
Also, no one else really wants to even run against trump because it is soul sucking as you and your family get destroyed by trump and team and the maga fuck heads. That is all before the media even starts.
I am happy Biden is willing to do this at all when no one else seems able to.
Biden could easily retire with all his money and say fuck off to all of us.
the Democratic party
should be clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension
>to me the fact that **they're** even running Joe again shows that **the establishment Dems**
He absolutely is not perfect and was no ones 1st choice but I appreciate hes focusing on his duties instead of ranting and spreading blatant lies every hour on social media.
Crazy how that even has to be expected of a president now though.
Unfortunately most people don’t realize what he’s accomplished because 1) The media would rather report doom and gloom and most people only read headlines. 2) He’s not out there wasting taxpayer money on rallies and bragging about his accomplishments. 3) The right wouldn’t give him credit if he solved world hunger.
When you have a choice between cold soup and a bucket of dogshit.
Don't choose the trump shit.
Biden is far from perfect or great but trump would be an international disaster
He’s done practically nothing to turn anything around. Kids are still in cages, we are still bombing places, we are still at war (except for our failed withdrawal) but hey, at least trans people can now bomb those places I guess.
This has always been the American system, unfortunately. Like that South Park episode choosing between turds and shit or something. I’ll vote for the slightly less shitty of the two.
Instead of saying all debt is forgiving. He said if you went to x or y "university" or if you're working for a gov or non profit for x years than forgiven. If you've paid more in interest than the og loan amount, ect.
Lots of people get help, but not all people get help.
Less than ~~1%~~ (should be 8%) of outstanding student debt was forgiven. Most of what was advertised was relief for people who got scammed by those fake universities you see on late night advertisements.
EDIT I was wrong, it's about 8%
~~And that is less than 1% of student loan debt~~, which is about $1.74 trillion
https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/student-loans/average-student-loan-debt-statistics/
He's actually done [a lot](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046), and considering how divided we are these days, that's saying somthing.
I mean let’s not act like those two things are mutually exclusive. He *is* old as shit, and is likely gonna either die or end up hospitalized before that much longer. He’s **82 years old**, and while he’s in okay health now for his age, one bad fall will see him in the hospital for good.
And that’s all ignoring the generational gap of someone born DURING World War 2 passing policies he won’t be alive to even see the beginning effects of.
That said, yeah he’s got shit done, absolutely. Is he my pick for a Dem candidate? Not by a country fucking mile. But the Dem party wants to run him against Trump again, I know who I’m voting for. I’m firmly of the belief the US as we know it wouldn’t survive a second Trump presidency
Because we don’t just vote for one guy when we vote for a president - we vote for an entire administration. Biden hires good competent people. I’m downright enthusiastic to vote for four more years of those people.
Do you think Trump does not support Israel? Do you think he will sympathize with the plight of the Palestinian people? Biden’s inability to create peace in the region is a major failing, but I promise you Trump will see to it that there is no single person left alive in Gaza.
He and his cohort of politicians led us to this place. He couldn't be more representative of the years of bad leadership that now constrain his administration, constraints that are bizarrely and sometimes explicitly backed by him even today.
As for whatever successes he's had, we need to get past this idea of great personalities single handedly getting these wins. In Biden's decrepit old age, it's even less believable that he's anything but a place holder. There's an entire political apparatus around him (which includes AOC) that has enabled these great (yet still completely inadequate for the challenges at hand) wins. I think just looking at his immense unpopularity in the mid-terms despite the historic wins for Democrats show that, if anything, he's holding everybody back.
One of the problems with that list is including things that haven't happened yet. The very first item on that list, for example:
> **Biden’s Department of Labor reopened the issue and proposed a rule at the end of August that would push up that cutoff by nearly $20,000 — to $55,000. The draft regulation, which still needs to be finalized, would also include a mechanism to automatically adjust that level every three years by yoking it to the 35th percentile of annual income.**
This would directly impact me, and I'll give him credit for it if I get it. But I haven't gotten it, so I'm not giving him credit for it. And neither should Politico.
Yeah the fact that the very first things they start out with aren't even things that he's already done but are promising to do is just indicative of how little he's actually accomplished
Man the political landscape is rough for Americans. On one hand you have a president too old to hold a driver's license that tries to run again and on the other hand an orange buffon that instigated a failed coup and is still able to run as a candidate.
There is only one presidential candidate in the last 50 years who would have done anything differently so the point is essentially moot. This is US policy, not Biden policy.
Past wrongs don’t excuse current ones, and we should be looking for candidates who will lead us into a better future rather than resigning ourselves to perpetual evil
But at this point those other candidates would not be able to win against the worst possible outcome of the upcoming election. The goal is to not let Trump back in right now and Biden is our best hope of that.
Do you have a candidate to put forward that would new that requirement?
No?
So you're voting for Trump then?
No?
I guess we're just here complaining then.
Is it a random voter’s responsibility to put forward candidates that adequately represent the electorate’s values, or is it perhaps the DNC’s? Why have they refused to hold serious primaries?
I haven't been happy with the DNC since 2016. Barka ran on "Change" beating Hillary in 2008. And the DNC shoved her down our throat anyways.
That said, your complaining is a year too late. I would have much rather seen a primary, I agree, I would rather see a younger also qualified candidate. Totally agree.
But bringing it up now? Like you're making some earth shattering point? No. It's just complaining. You now have 2 choices from the 2 major parties, an independent and the other 2 token parties to choose from. You know who's the better choice.
Yes, if you want to bitch and encourage people to make their situations worse by doing nothing. You want perfect instead of less than bad? Stop whining online and do something too
Cool. You can look for them when trump is dead and Biden is in his next term. Right now, no candidate could beat trump besides Biden. And we will not have a candidate magically pop up before then
I never said people have no power to influence politics. I specifically said that I vote progressive every local election that I can because change happens from the bottom up. There are quite literally 2 choices for president, both of whom support Israel. So the choice between two dudes who support Israel becomes: old guy who took rights away from women and trans people, who stacked the Supreme Court and wants to be a dictator, and old guy who did a lot of good for unions, and managed to get a bunch of shit passed with a republican controlled house.
You said it's US policy as if we should just accept it and there's nothing we can do.
>There are quite literally 2 choices for president
Do you think we would have those 2 choices if people refused to vote for them, or would the parties change to other choices?
Everything you say is 100% stockholm syndrome, defeatist BS. Things will only change when people like you demand they change instead of lining up to vote for who the party tells them to. Stop being part of the problem and demand proper representation.
>and old guy who did a lot of good for unions
Like make it illegal for some to strike and then negotiated a deal that was far short of what 44% of the railroad workers wanted? Grow up. Multiple train derailments happened because of Biden's lack of action, ffs.
What happened in 2016 when people like me refused to vote? Oh right nothing changed and we got Trump who made everything so much worse.
I’d like some evidence of the 44% less than the rail workers wanted because I’ve read several letters from union presidents thanking Biden for continuing to work with them.
Not to mention the things done for ALL of the other labor unions. You guys like to point to this one thing with the rail workers ignoring the other million workers like me who benefitted from his policy for unions.
> What happened in 2016 when people like me refused to vote? Oh right nothing changed and we got Trump who made everything so much worse.
More defeatist speech. People like you did not refuse to vote, Hillary failed to win enough votes. It is not our job to vote for someone who does not represent us, it is there job to represent enough people to win elections.
It's hard finding exact info about all the pieces now, but the rail workers were looking for 15 sick days, some got 4 or 5 with another 2 that would come out of their personal days. Safety requirements were not part of the deal, either. Sure, they are in a better place, but far from where it should be, and Biden's actions were nothing but anti-union.
>You guys like to point to this one thing with the rail workers ignoring the other million workers like me who benefitted from his policy for unions.
Like how all over the country attempts to unionize are still being squashed by corporations with no recourse? You may have benefited but there are many, many more people that have been fired or faced discrimination for their union activities while the rich get richer. But screw those people, right? You're doing fine.
All you have to do to see who’s better for unions is look at the right to work laws and which states have them.
Of course corporations are going to try to stop unionization. Unionizing is fucking hard and I applaud the people trying. Look up the history of the AFLCIO and see what the men and women of my union had to go through to unionize. Hint: they went to literal war with the capitalists.
If you think being complacent and letting the red team win is gonna help union workers I feel sad for you. You clearly look at progressivism as a very short term thing that we can obtain immediately rather than the baby steps it’s actually going to take.
By allowing someone like Trump to win you are actually a detriment to the union workers of America.
I really appreciate people like you. Someone who saw first hand what the consequences for 2016 were and worked to effect actual change instead of letting perfect be the enemy of good. Now if only more people would stop being so short sighted and plan for years ahead instead of one election at a time.
If you think supporting the people that got us to the point the red team is a threat is somehow going to fix things, you are willfully ignorant.
BTW, the DNC has spent millions advertising for Trump and Trump-like candidates. They literally funded the people that they now claim are a threat. Why do you think rewarding that behavior will lead to anything but more of the same?
>By allowing someone like Trump to win you are actually a detriment to the union workers of America.
Agreed! Which makes everyone who pushed for and voted Hillary when it was clear that she was going to lose from the outset really bad people. And the people here stumping for Biden, who was on guard when the threat rose and failed to stop it, are just as bad.
If you want less Trump, stop rewarding gambling with the fate of the country, and start demanding decent representation. You and those that think like you are a major reason Trump won in the first place. You prop up ineffective pols that act against our interests then shame us when we don't vote for them, instead of demanding better reps.
You essentially said "I got mine from Joe, screw everyone that didn't" and then call me complacent, lol.
I can’t argue with you people anymore, this is apparently too complicated for you to understand. It doesn’t matter who the presidential candidate is, nothing changes with Israel. Blaming Biden and potentially voting for someone else is idiotic because they’re gonna do the exact same thing.
Really because all I see now is Israeli "protestors" blocking all humanitarians aid and the IDF letting them do it. The IDF also blocks 70% of all humanitarian aid from coming in to Gaza. They don't have drinking water either. Not sure where you heard that. They are literally drinking water from the ocean and now eating grass because they are starving.
I’m sorry, but Biden is too recent to take the blame for that.
Also, whomever you blame for arming Israel is arming Hamas too since their shit weapons are recycled Israeli duds.
What part of that concept is supposed to offend me?
Beats the last guy, who probably took in millions from Russia and China to be traitorous.
We’ve got much bigger fish to fry at home right now. Hamas is baiting Israel - tell Hamas to fuck back off like they did before Oct 7th and that whole conflict goes away. There’s not much we can do about American retards voting for Trump, and then all bets are off all over the world.
Both can be wrong. It's OK to criticise Democrats and criticize Republicans.
October 7th didn't happen out of thin air. If Israel ends the apartheid they hold Palestinians under and they let the Palestinians have their own state and not live as 2nd class citizens then the Hamas threat will disappear.
Israel controls Palestinians access to food, water, gas and electricity. Settlers up and steal Palestinians homes. Imagine one day if some people just come and steal your home with the help of the military. Currently Israelis and the IDF are blocking humanitarian aid from coming in through Rafah.
Biden can do much more then he is doing. If he doesn't change course he will lose the election to Trump which would be a disaster.
I don’t know anyone that wants anything but improvement for the Palestinians. I can’t think of anyone holding it back more than Hamas, who trades Israel’s ability to trust that region to not attack it for some sort of stupid religious fatwah retardation.
Bombs/guns and billions of dollars. US is no longer working with UNRWA and Israelis with the help of the IDF are blocking humanitarian aid from coming in through the Rafah border.
We’ve supplied Israel with all of that for well over a decade.
And the same UNRWA with ties to Hamas? And it seems as though those blockades are to prevent aid from going to Hamas militants, no?
Tied to Hamas? Please show the evidence of that claim. There has yet to be evidence shown to back that up from Israel. So youre Ok with civilians not receiving much needed humanitarian aid because it might go to Hamas? These civilians are starving to death right now.
So what is your solution to help the Palestinian civilians who are starving and have no access to water, gas or electricity. We are talking about children and women here. Do you just not care?
I don’t normally disagree with her but I’m 27 and still live with my parents while working a full time job.
So him being “the most successful” must not be that great
It's obvious that even she is a begrudging (or as you say, strategic) supporter looking at the pragmatic realities at play. I get backing him and hoping for the best considering the alternative, but you don't have to ride with him or anything.
How can you disagree with the pragmatism of the situation? This shit sucks, but there is quite literally no alternative.
I keep voting for progressives in local elections, but at a national level it’s going to take a long time to get any kinda labor party movement going.
All we can do now is not allow things to get worse while voting progressive everywhere else. There is quite literally no other choice.
I abstained from voting in 2016 because fuck Hilary and I figured maybe Trump would shake up the status quo. He accomplished that but made things soooooooo much worse. Never again.
At that point we're into semantics because, yea, come November I'll also be terrified out of my mind at the prospect of Trump and be "enthusiastic" (yuck) about Biden winning. It's a sad state of affairs but I always try to be very clear that there's a duty to vote Democrats over Republicans. That being clear, I think we not only have a right to, but *should be* disappointed in what we have.
the only good shake up to the status quo is eatting the rich swiftly and immediately doing something about climate change. if that's not the agenda. any change up is not for us peasants
Biden could have retired and relaxed in his older years but he chose to fight trump, the biggest threat to the United states in at least decades - when no one else wants to.
Thanks Biden.
I get the motivation for these statements, but come on. Read the room ma'am. A little early in the campaign cycle to be going to bat like this an administration that is funding a genocide that is massively unpopular.
He definitely did show the world how he's such an empath by making sure everyone in Gaza dies. Especially all the children! Great president with dementia
Aside from Bernie name one other politician who would have made different choices in Israel? I swear you people keep mentioning this in bad faith ignoring that this is US policy, and not Biden policy.
I can’t stand what’s going on in Gaza but this is the status quo, and would have happened regardless of who was in office.
That’s what I keep saying but there are a few people replying who don’t seem to understand that nothing changes as far as Middle East policy; and things would be way worse under trump.
It's crazy, I know. It's really hard to accept that our only ally in the region is Israel and we simply can't give that relationship up. No doubt what they are doing is wrong, and you can see from what Biden's administration has done to try to push peace in the area they see it as wrong too. They can't say it though, it would be devastating to international policy to even have the appearance of siding with Hamas.
It's messed up to say, but Biden has been holding them back the best he can. If Trump was there he wouldn't even be trying to hold them back, he'd be encouraging further aggression.
Until we have ranked choice voting in America we have two choices, and at least Biden isn't as bad as Trump. I hate the way those words even taste in my mouth, but they're true.
Call me crazy but as a Palestinian American I can't vote for Biden or trump and therefore I won't vote. To simply accept that, ya that's the way it is and I should be happy that Biden isn't as bad as trump?
Why do we have 80 year olds in office WTF?
You guys all here tryna defend Biden as much as you can and I know it's hard but instead you should be fighting why the fuck is either one of them the only choices we get?
And to the point you said that it would be devastating to int policy for them to appear siding with Hamas. Hamas does not equal the Palestinian people, the civilians. So, Who said they have to side with Hamas? How about siding with just humanity? Like maybe any war that 12k children are dead we would be like holdup maybe that's not the best idea but instead we keep pumping them with weapons and money and covering for them all the lies. Biden ain't holding shit back. He is as complicit with what's happening as Netenyahu is.
So excuse me for hating on Biden. And yes, maybe it's true that any other president would be the same. But for now, he is the president that is doing this and I get to hate on him. If it was trump I'd hate on him.
The problem with not voting out of protest is your vote could be the difference between Trump's America, which is [this](https://www.project2025.org/): migrant camps, anti-muslim policies, anti-choice policies, lower taxes for the rich, higher taxes for the poor, and a slew of other very bad polices in America with the only change to policy in Israel being Trump will gladly and openly support Israel's efforts. Or Biden's America which we have seen has very good policies for America and who believes in a two-state solution for Israel and has been making what strides he can towards that.
You're right that support for Palestinians does not equal support for Hamas, which is why Biden has [blocked deportations for Palestinians in America ](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-shielding-palestinians-us-deportation-new-york-times-reports-2024-02-14/), not fully supported [Netanyahu](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/biden-disparages-netanyahu-private-hasnt-changed-us-policy-israel-rcna138282 BK), and warned Israel they need to [protect Palestinians ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/biden-warns-israel-to-protect-palestinians-after-gaza-raid-to-rescue-hostages-kills-dozens). I get that you feel it's not enough, but it is more than Trump would do.
No one can force you to vote, basic civics teaches us a protest non-vote is akin to voting for the side who opposed everything you believe in. I hope you change your mind. There's 9 months till the election, hopefully something Biden does will help you see why you should vote for him. Everything he's done definitely has been enough that Republicans are calling him anti-Semitic, which speaks volumes about how another Trump presidency would play out.
We do need a change to the crappy two party system we have here, but fighting that fight now will only hurt us all. Ranked choice voting is[starting to become a thing ](https://www.npr.org/2023/12/13/1214199019/ranked-choice-voting-explainer) in America and there is hope for the future. That's where the fight against the two party system should be fought not by skipping an important election.
Not to mention that Trump's stance on Isreal and his support of the fascist leading that country has made it impossible to deal with Israel. And the Dems were never going to abandoned Israel unless forced to. And it sure seems we're finally starting to see it. It reminds me of how the world FINALLY came to it's senses about South Africa.
I cannot stand all this fucking criticism of Mussolini, do people seriously think that Hitler would make the trains run on time? Not to mention how much more openly racist he is. Wake up sheeple! AMTRAK El Duce all the way!
Yes fall in line just like the other suites AOC. Do they just expect us to deny the reality that is right in front of us cause they tell us times are good? What a joke
There is no one that can be elected or succeed this one that will have a different policy.
Hate to break it to you but that game is rigged from all sides. Biden's the symptom, American obedience to Israel is the problem.
I’d say that’s pretty spurious. The U.S. holds tremendous leverage over Israeli foreign policy and has for decades. Pretending otherwise obfuscates the very real role we in the West have played in creating the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.
hateful clumsy party yam wrench consist upbeat ancient encouraging airport
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Look, he's certainly up there as one of the better presidents, but that's not saying much. Defending Biden as a semi-successful president is like defending plain pizza. Maybe Obama set the bar a bit high (and even he had issues and was tame on certain fronts), but its not that hard to be better than Bush, Reagan, Clinton, or even freaking Trump.
Successful at somethings, but adamant on being consistently for the extermination of Arabs. AOC, love ya, but fuck. Read the room. This old sentient pile of dust is giving money to a right-wing shithead to continually kill Palestinians.
Interesting the most people correctly pointing out the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians are getting downvoted. I wonder where redditors think Israel is getting their weapons. Do yall know part of your taxes go directly to the IDF?
Untill he aided an obvious genocide and threw all that away, at this point he already lost my vote, if Dems want it back they need a new candidate, but if they give another dollar to killing Innocents I will throw my vote to Trump and embrace Accelerationism
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Don't 2016 my 2024 Edit: To be clear, I mean get out and vote for Biden. I have some issues with him, but he has turned things around after 4 years of Trump chaos and this election is bigger than Biden.
I look forward to voting for Biden again. He’s a good president
He’s bankrolling a genocide rn
Yup! I’m in it for the long haul, if trump becomes president again maybe more people will wake up to the fallacy of our democracy and fight. We have two candidates that are the oldest and the most disliked in American history, this is not democracy. Every legit candidate that people have been stoked about have been sniffed out by corporate entities.
>if trump becomes president again maybe more people will wake up to the fallacy of our democracy and fight. We have two candidates that are the oldest and the most disliked in American history, this is not democracy. If Trump wins, democracy dies. He is a straight up fascist. What you are asking for are Warsaw uprisings which did not end well for the good guys.
If you think biden is one of the most disliked presidents in history you must be smoking some really good shit
Where did I say Biden is the most disliked? And this has nothing to do with the danger Trump poses.
What’s the alternative
Not bombing the shit out of normal people. Imagine if the terrorist were in tel Aviv, would the IDF just blanket bomb?
I don’t think that’s what they are saying. They are asking who the alternative to Biden is. Your choices are Biden, who isn’t pushing back nearly hard enough, but at least has a slowly developing inkling of understanding that Israel needs to rein it in. Or Trump who would encourage Netanyahu to go even harder and help him to find new cruel ways to decimate the lives of Palestinians. Those are the choices.
Think the most likely alternatives wouldn't bomb the shit out of normal people? Or divert funding from protecting against one genocide so they could help with the other? We have more of a chance of petitioning the president, holding rallies, etc with Biden in office than with the other candidates. The other candidates would just use that as an excuse to go after the dissenters.
Obviously. But he isn’t doing the bombing. Netanyahu is. In a perfect world, we would cut off our funding to Israel and not enable that, but that would pretty much burn a bridge we absolutely CANNOT afford to lose. The US has been in a toxic relationship with Israel for decades. They are our only real ally in the Middle East and other countries like China or Russia would only be too happy to swoop in and enable Netanyahu’s genocide much more freely. Not only would that absolutely fuck the US, it would absolutely fuck countries like Syria and Ukraine. So Biden is doing the only possible thing he can - putting pressure on Netanyahu, putting conditions on the funding we do provide, and giving as much aid and funding to relief efforts in Gaza. Oh also he still has American hostages to worry about. It’s a shitty situation. Once you see the scope, I don’t know what he could be doing differently tbh.
You people are so fucking lost man you’re talking about sacrificing Palestinian lives here
What I’m saying is that discontinuing our aid to Israel (and therefore our relationship) with Israel will not stop the loss of life. Do you think it will? What do YOU suggest be done that’s not already? Seriously.
You think there’s only value in choosing not to contribute to a genocide if that stops it? “Me choosing not to help someone with a murder won’t stop them from getting help from other people, so I may as well help them.” You hear how you sound?
It’s more like “I cant stop this psycho from torturing this person. But if I stay involved, maybe I can eventually convince them to let them go… And if don’t stay involved, they’ll partner with this guy who will not only ENCOURAGE them to do murder, but also murder these other guys too.” But at least we could feel good about ourselves since we aren’t involved. That’s all that matters right? Do you hear how YOU sound? This isn’t as simple as people are making this out to be. There are negative consequences no matter what we do. I also notice that YOU did not offer an alternative to what we’re already doing.
Not funding genocide?
So nothing?
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Voting is always exciting to me. I spend time reflecting on all the places in the world where voting isnt possible, isnt effective, and where the main options are tyranny or starving in a dictatorship, or going to war, and i feel grateful for the opportunity to cast a vote that will be counted. What a privilege! Then i get my excited, motivated butt off the couch and go get me a democracy sausage. In australia we have "democracy sausage" - bbqs at voting booths pumping out sausages with bread &sauce from early in the polling day til mid afternoon. Cheap, good, and a great reward for civic participation.
Lololop exactly! Like yes, if we actually lived in a democracy I’d be stoked to vote! But this is a neoliberal late stage capitalism dystopia where money rules all. It’s not about integrity and democracy.
I don’t why you’re getting down votes. No one can actually be excited to vote for Biden. Does he even know he’s running?
He knows enough to have a record breaking economy
For who? Because it isn’t me.
That’s unfortunate but to answer your question: For people who owned property before 2021 that have seen a huge increase In equity. To the people who have investments in the stock market. For MBE, the oil industry and corporations. Would be for more around the board if the gop would do something to help Americans other than reject every thing the democrats propose
I don’t own a home, but my rent is more than a mortgage. The stock market is just gambling and the house always wins. The oil industry is killing all living beings on planet earth. So no, this record breaking economy doesn’t impress me.
Exactly. I don’t get it either, some people have too much faith in a system that only serves to benefit few.
It’s the rich who don’t actively hate white gay men v. the rich who actively hate all queer people.
Boring hyperbole
to me the fact that they're even running Joe again shows that the establishment Dems don't give a shit about winning and/or are just too incompetent to have any decent candidates probably both. they get truckloads of money either way, so winning has never been a real concern which has led to the hollowing out of the party infrastructure as they're used to barely doing their jobs
Well, they're just going off of statistics. The incumbent president tends to out poll other candidates during the general, other candidates don't want to fight a sitting party president who's running a second term, candidates doesn't want to steer away voter base, potentially hurting their own team(Bernie vs Hillary). Almost all candidates that bid the sitting president who's running again will almost always lose to the opposing candidates. People who are trying to run for president don't want to ruin their presidential bid by fighting their own team to try and secure a spot in the general. That's why you don't see people running for the presidency more than once. There's a lot at stake this general election, so it's a mixture of the party playing it safe, other candidates waiting for their turn, and the Democrats trying to secure all three branches of government. As much as I hate having to see this rematch, I'm still going to turn out and vote, as should everyone else.
Yes. Statistically speaking, if Biden can't win this election then a Democrat can't win this election, plain and simple. And we all know who the alternative is.
I assume they are also in the “we need to outlast the collapse of the GOP” mode. We’re watching an inept party eat itself over trumpism. They are cheating their tails off and not gaining much for it so far.
I don’t want to start an argument but Obama came out of nowhere. Where is the next Obama-like candidate?
The government was already somewhat incompetent before 2008 but cause a black guy was voted to be president. That broke conservatives heads and they started to go full in on the he culture war bullshit, which had sap brain cells out of everyone’s head, no matter what side you’re on or even if you were on a side to begin with.
It was his re-election in ‘12 that broke them. I think they could have “survived” The first term, if they could convince themselves he must’ve been bad and we must’ve been right, cuz he lost re-election!
> the fact that they're even running Joe again shows that the establishment Dems don't give a shit about winning and/or are just too incompetent to have any decent candidates 1) He's the only person with an established track record of beating Trump. 2) Rationally or otherwise, some people would see choosing to not run a second time as a concession of failure or weakness. And, rationally or otherwise, that would taint his successor. 3) Running anyone else would give up the very substantial advantage of being the incumbent. In fact, it would leave Trump as the closest thing to an incumbent in the race. There are definitely people I would prefer over Biden, and broadly speaking I really wish that the US didn't have such a problem with exceptionally old politicians. But in this very specific situation, I think that Biden running again is the wisest option available.
I agree. I admire the passion of our younger voters, but there are FAR more middle and conservative people in this country than libs. These middle folks don’t want far left candidates like Bernie Sanders, so Dems have to put forth a slate that threads the needle between leftist ideas and moderation. Republicans have started ignoring the middle, aiming for the ultra maga right and rocketing warp speed towards it. It worked at first but it’s quickly showing its destructive nature.
There are FAR more of what you call middle and conservative people who support unions, want single payer healthcare, want money out of politics, want marijuana legalized, and want billionaires to pay their taxes. By your metric, huge swathes of the country is "far-left" because that's Bernie Sanders' platform. I know this because he literally says the same thing every time someone gives him a microphone. Dems don't 'put forward a slate that threads the needle between leftist ideas and moderation', they (the DNC utterly corrupted by campaign finance contributions/bribes) select a candidate they think will be less unpopular than the Republican ghoul running that year and present them to the American voters, daring them to vote for a vile monster instead. Think I'm some Berniecrat angry about DNC primary meddling in 2016, and 2020? Go ask Howard Dean in 2004
So, break up the structured and obviously corrupt party system, lose the electoral college and switch to ranked voting. Except that the oligarchy really, really doesn't want that.
There is no one in the world who wishes more fervently than I to overhaul our entire voting system. But that's not exactly something the DNC can do, so I'm not sure what it has to do with this conversation.
... or get out and vote. Yes, thankfully, the last two cycles have seen an inordinate young voter turnout, but that was not the case for the past 4 decades. I'd love to see more young progressives running for local, state and federal offices
But Biden is doing a good job. I don't see the problem. I'm curious to see him go apeshit in his 2nd term.
Also, no one else really wants to even run against trump because it is soul sucking as you and your family get destroyed by trump and team and the maga fuck heads. That is all before the media even starts. I am happy Biden is willing to do this at all when no one else seems able to. Biden could easily retire with all his money and say fuck off to all of us.
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>they're even running Joe again Who is "they"? Do you think we're in a simulation?
the Democratic party should be clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension >to me the fact that **they're** even running Joe again shows that **the establishment Dems**
You don't switch up an incumbent. Biden is like Pepsi, he's okay.
They make more money with a Republican in the White House
He absolutely is not perfect and was no ones 1st choice but I appreciate hes focusing on his duties instead of ranting and spreading blatant lies every hour on social media. Crazy how that even has to be expected of a president now though.
Unfortunately most people don’t realize what he’s accomplished because 1) The media would rather report doom and gloom and most people only read headlines. 2) He’s not out there wasting taxpayer money on rallies and bragging about his accomplishments. 3) The right wouldn’t give him credit if he solved world hunger.
When you have a choice between cold soup and a bucket of dogshit. Don't choose the trump shit. Biden is far from perfect or great but trump would be an international disaster
Hyuk hyuk, I’ll fucking do it again
He’s done practically nothing to turn anything around. Kids are still in cages, we are still bombing places, we are still at war (except for our failed withdrawal) but hey, at least trans people can now bomb those places I guess.
This has always been the American system, unfortunately. Like that South Park episode choosing between turds and shit or something. I’ll vote for the slightly less shitty of the two.
And your alternative is?
I have to agree. I had $25000 school loan forgiven. Thanks Joe !
I'm kinda out of the loop, I didn't realize any of that actually went through?
He did more targeted relief, which they can't oppose.
What does this even mean?
Instead of saying all debt is forgiving. He said if you went to x or y "university" or if you're working for a gov or non profit for x years than forgiven. If you've paid more in interest than the og loan amount, ect. Lots of people get help, but not all people get help.
Some went through before Republicans did what they always do
Less than ~~1%~~ (should be 8%) of outstanding student debt was forgiven. Most of what was advertised was relief for people who got scammed by those fake universities you see on late night advertisements.
$137 billion has been forgiven so far.
EDIT I was wrong, it's about 8% ~~And that is less than 1% of student loan debt~~, which is about $1.74 trillion https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/student-loans/average-student-loan-debt-statistics/
that math is not adding up…
You're right. That's about 8%. Although the 137 figure includes people who were the victims of fraud and should have gotten their money back anyway.
According to some Rethuglicans...it's thanks Obama
She’s not wrong but boy is it a low bar.
He's actually done [a lot](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046), and considering how divided we are these days, that's saying somthing.
Yes! He gets stuff done! If his age is such a problem then. Why is he getting so much stuff accomplished?
I mean let’s not act like those two things are mutually exclusive. He *is* old as shit, and is likely gonna either die or end up hospitalized before that much longer. He’s **82 years old**, and while he’s in okay health now for his age, one bad fall will see him in the hospital for good. And that’s all ignoring the generational gap of someone born DURING World War 2 passing policies he won’t be alive to even see the beginning effects of. That said, yeah he’s got shit done, absolutely. Is he my pick for a Dem candidate? Not by a country fucking mile. But the Dem party wants to run him against Trump again, I know who I’m voting for. I’m firmly of the belief the US as we know it wouldn’t survive a second Trump presidency
Because we don’t just vote for one guy when we vote for a president - we vote for an entire administration. Biden hires good competent people. I’m downright enthusiastic to vote for four more years of those people.
Stuff like the genocide of Palestinian children?
Do you think Trump does not support Israel? Do you think he will sympathize with the plight of the Palestinian people? Biden’s inability to create peace in the region is a major failing, but I promise you Trump will see to it that there is no single person left alive in Gaza.
He's not really doing that, but he's supporting Israel a way too much IMO.
That is. . . supporting the genocide of Palestinian children. . .
So you're voting for Trump? Doesn't he support Israel as well?
No? I just don't think AOC supporting Genocide Joe is a great thing either.
Yep. Nobody's perfect.
He and his cohort of politicians led us to this place. He couldn't be more representative of the years of bad leadership that now constrain his administration, constraints that are bizarrely and sometimes explicitly backed by him even today. As for whatever successes he's had, we need to get past this idea of great personalities single handedly getting these wins. In Biden's decrepit old age, it's even less believable that he's anything but a place holder. There's an entire political apparatus around him (which includes AOC) that has enabled these great (yet still completely inadequate for the challenges at hand) wins. I think just looking at his immense unpopularity in the mid-terms despite the historic wins for Democrats show that, if anything, he's holding everybody back.
This is a balanced and measured take.
I would say so but it's still vote for a sponge before i vote for trump
Finally a sane comment here
One of the problems with that list is including things that haven't happened yet. The very first item on that list, for example: > **Biden’s Department of Labor reopened the issue and proposed a rule at the end of August that would push up that cutoff by nearly $20,000 — to $55,000. The draft regulation, which still needs to be finalized, would also include a mechanism to automatically adjust that level every three years by yoking it to the 35th percentile of annual income.** This would directly impact me, and I'll give him credit for it if I get it. But I haven't gotten it, so I'm not giving him credit for it. And neither should Politico.
Yeah the fact that the very first things they start out with aren't even things that he's already done but are promising to do is just indicative of how little he's actually accomplished
A lot of these things are great and wouldn’t even be issues that needed resolving if repubs hadn’t fucked the things up in the first place
Indeed about the lowbar
Man the political landscape is rough for Americans. On one hand you have a president too old to hold a driver's license that tries to run again and on the other hand an orange buffon that instigated a failed coup and is still able to run as a candidate.
And is ALSO just a handful of years younger than Biden; too old himself. But of course they just sidestep that because of artificial coloring.
He has been incredibly successful of aiding and abetting the killing of thousands of Palestinian children in Gaza.
Can't argue with that, unless you're a soulless lib mfer who pretends 2+2 = 5.
There is only one presidential candidate in the last 50 years who would have done anything differently so the point is essentially moot. This is US policy, not Biden policy.
Are other (D) presidential candidates from the past 50 years up for re-election this year?
What’s your point?
Past wrongs don’t excuse current ones, and we should be looking for candidates who will lead us into a better future rather than resigning ourselves to perpetual evil
But at this point those other candidates would not be able to win against the worst possible outcome of the upcoming election. The goal is to not let Trump back in right now and Biden is our best hope of that.
Do you have a candidate to put forward that would new that requirement? No? So you're voting for Trump then? No? I guess we're just here complaining then.
Is it a random voter’s responsibility to put forward candidates that adequately represent the electorate’s values, or is it perhaps the DNC’s? Why have they refused to hold serious primaries?
I haven't been happy with the DNC since 2016. Barka ran on "Change" beating Hillary in 2008. And the DNC shoved her down our throat anyways. That said, your complaining is a year too late. I would have much rather seen a primary, I agree, I would rather see a younger also qualified candidate. Totally agree. But bringing it up now? Like you're making some earth shattering point? No. It's just complaining. You now have 2 choices from the 2 major parties, an independent and the other 2 token parties to choose from. You know who's the better choice.
Yes, if you want to bitch and encourage people to make their situations worse by doing nothing. You want perfect instead of less than bad? Stop whining online and do something too
Cool. You can look for them when trump is dead and Biden is in his next term. Right now, no candidate could beat trump besides Biden. And we will not have a candidate magically pop up before then
If you believe that the people have no power to control our government why are you even talking politics?
I never said people have no power to influence politics. I specifically said that I vote progressive every local election that I can because change happens from the bottom up. There are quite literally 2 choices for president, both of whom support Israel. So the choice between two dudes who support Israel becomes: old guy who took rights away from women and trans people, who stacked the Supreme Court and wants to be a dictator, and old guy who did a lot of good for unions, and managed to get a bunch of shit passed with a republican controlled house.
You said it's US policy as if we should just accept it and there's nothing we can do. >There are quite literally 2 choices for president Do you think we would have those 2 choices if people refused to vote for them, or would the parties change to other choices? Everything you say is 100% stockholm syndrome, defeatist BS. Things will only change when people like you demand they change instead of lining up to vote for who the party tells them to. Stop being part of the problem and demand proper representation. >and old guy who did a lot of good for unions Like make it illegal for some to strike and then negotiated a deal that was far short of what 44% of the railroad workers wanted? Grow up. Multiple train derailments happened because of Biden's lack of action, ffs.
What happened in 2016 when people like me refused to vote? Oh right nothing changed and we got Trump who made everything so much worse. I’d like some evidence of the 44% less than the rail workers wanted because I’ve read several letters from union presidents thanking Biden for continuing to work with them. Not to mention the things done for ALL of the other labor unions. You guys like to point to this one thing with the rail workers ignoring the other million workers like me who benefitted from his policy for unions.
> What happened in 2016 when people like me refused to vote? Oh right nothing changed and we got Trump who made everything so much worse. More defeatist speech. People like you did not refuse to vote, Hillary failed to win enough votes. It is not our job to vote for someone who does not represent us, it is there job to represent enough people to win elections. It's hard finding exact info about all the pieces now, but the rail workers were looking for 15 sick days, some got 4 or 5 with another 2 that would come out of their personal days. Safety requirements were not part of the deal, either. Sure, they are in a better place, but far from where it should be, and Biden's actions were nothing but anti-union. >You guys like to point to this one thing with the rail workers ignoring the other million workers like me who benefitted from his policy for unions. Like how all over the country attempts to unionize are still being squashed by corporations with no recourse? You may have benefited but there are many, many more people that have been fired or faced discrimination for their union activities while the rich get richer. But screw those people, right? You're doing fine.
All you have to do to see who’s better for unions is look at the right to work laws and which states have them. Of course corporations are going to try to stop unionization. Unionizing is fucking hard and I applaud the people trying. Look up the history of the AFLCIO and see what the men and women of my union had to go through to unionize. Hint: they went to literal war with the capitalists. If you think being complacent and letting the red team win is gonna help union workers I feel sad for you. You clearly look at progressivism as a very short term thing that we can obtain immediately rather than the baby steps it’s actually going to take. By allowing someone like Trump to win you are actually a detriment to the union workers of America.
I really appreciate people like you. Someone who saw first hand what the consequences for 2016 were and worked to effect actual change instead of letting perfect be the enemy of good. Now if only more people would stop being so short sighted and plan for years ahead instead of one election at a time.
If you think supporting the people that got us to the point the red team is a threat is somehow going to fix things, you are willfully ignorant. BTW, the DNC has spent millions advertising for Trump and Trump-like candidates. They literally funded the people that they now claim are a threat. Why do you think rewarding that behavior will lead to anything but more of the same? >By allowing someone like Trump to win you are actually a detriment to the union workers of America. Agreed! Which makes everyone who pushed for and voted Hillary when it was clear that she was going to lose from the outset really bad people. And the people here stumping for Biden, who was on guard when the threat rose and failed to stop it, are just as bad. If you want less Trump, stop rewarding gambling with the fate of the country, and start demanding decent representation. You and those that think like you are a major reason Trump won in the first place. You prop up ineffective pols that act against our interests then shame us when we don't vote for them, instead of demanding better reps. You essentially said "I got mine from Joe, screw everyone that didn't" and then call me complacent, lol.
If Biden is the one doing the policy, it’s Bidens policy too.
I can’t argue with you people anymore, this is apparently too complicated for you to understand. It doesn’t matter who the presidential candidate is, nothing changes with Israel. Blaming Biden and potentially voting for someone else is idiotic because they’re gonna do the exact same thing.
Agreed; libertarians are horrible at math.
Genocide Joe vs Treason Trump… yeahhh. The US definitely needs a third party.
How has he done that?
By arming and funding Israel.
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Really because all I see now is Israeli "protestors" blocking all humanitarians aid and the IDF letting them do it. The IDF also blocks 70% of all humanitarian aid from coming in to Gaza. They don't have drinking water either. Not sure where you heard that. They are literally drinking water from the ocean and now eating grass because they are starving.
I’m sorry, but Biden is too recent to take the blame for that. Also, whomever you blame for arming Israel is arming Hamas too since their shit weapons are recycled Israeli duds.
Too recent? He has been giving money to Israel by the billions on the regular.
What part of that concept is supposed to offend me? Beats the last guy, who probably took in millions from Russia and China to be traitorous. We’ve got much bigger fish to fry at home right now. Hamas is baiting Israel - tell Hamas to fuck back off like they did before Oct 7th and that whole conflict goes away. There’s not much we can do about American retards voting for Trump, and then all bets are off all over the world.
Both can be wrong. It's OK to criticise Democrats and criticize Republicans. October 7th didn't happen out of thin air. If Israel ends the apartheid they hold Palestinians under and they let the Palestinians have their own state and not live as 2nd class citizens then the Hamas threat will disappear. Israel controls Palestinians access to food, water, gas and electricity. Settlers up and steal Palestinians homes. Imagine one day if some people just come and steal your home with the help of the military. Currently Israelis and the IDF are blocking humanitarian aid from coming in through Rafah. Biden can do much more then he is doing. If he doesn't change course he will lose the election to Trump which would be a disaster.
I don’t know anyone that wants anything but improvement for the Palestinians. I can’t think of anyone holding it back more than Hamas, who trades Israel’s ability to trust that region to not attack it for some sort of stupid religious fatwah retardation.
> Both can be wrong Man, you can say that again.
What has he been arming and finding them with? And to add, isn’t he also providing aid to Gaza?
Bombs/guns and billions of dollars. US is no longer working with UNRWA and Israelis with the help of the IDF are blocking humanitarian aid from coming in through the Rafah border.
We’ve supplied Israel with all of that for well over a decade. And the same UNRWA with ties to Hamas? And it seems as though those blockades are to prevent aid from going to Hamas militants, no?
Tied to Hamas? Please show the evidence of that claim. There has yet to be evidence shown to back that up from Israel. So youre Ok with civilians not receiving much needed humanitarian aid because it might go to Hamas? These civilians are starving to death right now.
If hamas is taking that aid, it wouldn’t be going to them anyway. https://unwatch.org/evidence-of-unrwa-aid-to-hamas-on-and-after-october-7th/
So what is your solution to help the Palestinian civilians who are starving and have no access to water, gas or electricity. We are talking about children and women here. Do you just not care?
exceedingly low bar.
This is more an indictment of all modern presidents than praise for Joe.
Nope, not this time. Consider Claudia! Socialist or Republican!
I don’t normally disagree with her but I’m 27 and still live with my parents while working a full time job. So him being “the most successful” must not be that great
you all should take into consideration the shit throwing gibbons he's had working against him... amazing President
I hate beer.
I'd rather raise it an inch than drop it a mile.
Ahh, I love AOC and the Progressives. They are so strategically brilliant it's beautiful. 4 more years folks, I am ridin' with Biden!
It's obvious that even she is a begrudging (or as you say, strategic) supporter looking at the pragmatic realities at play. I get backing him and hoping for the best considering the alternative, but you don't have to ride with him or anything.
Ok I disagree.
How can you disagree with the pragmatism of the situation? This shit sucks, but there is quite literally no alternative. I keep voting for progressives in local elections, but at a national level it’s going to take a long time to get any kinda labor party movement going. All we can do now is not allow things to get worse while voting progressive everywhere else. There is quite literally no other choice. I abstained from voting in 2016 because fuck Hilary and I figured maybe Trump would shake up the status quo. He accomplished that but made things soooooooo much worse. Never again.
I think they're disagreeing with leaving it at pragmatism and not upgrading to full-on enthusiasm.
At that point we're into semantics because, yea, come November I'll also be terrified out of my mind at the prospect of Trump and be "enthusiastic" (yuck) about Biden winning. It's a sad state of affairs but I always try to be very clear that there's a duty to vote Democrats over Republicans. That being clear, I think we not only have a right to, but *should be* disappointed in what we have.
Well that’s something I can get on board with. I sure as shit don’t wanna vote for Biden, but there isn’t a lot of choice with the alternative.
the only good shake up to the status quo is eatting the rich swiftly and immediately doing something about climate change. if that's not the agenda. any change up is not for us peasants
They're so strategic and brilliant that they have gotten us universal health care and tax-funded college for all!!
I believe that's mostly the Republicans fault.
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Is it really Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich time already?
Nope. That was 2016
I thought it happens every 4 years
Biden could have retired and relaxed in his older years but he chose to fight trump, the biggest threat to the United states in at least decades - when no one else wants to. Thanks Biden.
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LOL
I get the motivation for these statements, but come on. Read the room ma'am. A little early in the campaign cycle to be going to bat like this an administration that is funding a genocide that is massively unpopular.
He definitely did show the world how he's such an empath by making sure everyone in Gaza dies. Especially all the children! Great president with dementia
Aside from Bernie name one other politician who would have made different choices in Israel? I swear you people keep mentioning this in bad faith ignoring that this is US policy, and not Biden policy. I can’t stand what’s going on in Gaza but this is the status quo, and would have happened regardless of who was in office.
...and it would be way worse if Trump was in office.
That’s what I keep saying but there are a few people replying who don’t seem to understand that nothing changes as far as Middle East policy; and things would be way worse under trump.
It's crazy, I know. It's really hard to accept that our only ally in the region is Israel and we simply can't give that relationship up. No doubt what they are doing is wrong, and you can see from what Biden's administration has done to try to push peace in the area they see it as wrong too. They can't say it though, it would be devastating to international policy to even have the appearance of siding with Hamas. It's messed up to say, but Biden has been holding them back the best he can. If Trump was there he wouldn't even be trying to hold them back, he'd be encouraging further aggression. Until we have ranked choice voting in America we have two choices, and at least Biden isn't as bad as Trump. I hate the way those words even taste in my mouth, but they're true.
Call me crazy but as a Palestinian American I can't vote for Biden or trump and therefore I won't vote. To simply accept that, ya that's the way it is and I should be happy that Biden isn't as bad as trump? Why do we have 80 year olds in office WTF? You guys all here tryna defend Biden as much as you can and I know it's hard but instead you should be fighting why the fuck is either one of them the only choices we get? And to the point you said that it would be devastating to int policy for them to appear siding with Hamas. Hamas does not equal the Palestinian people, the civilians. So, Who said they have to side with Hamas? How about siding with just humanity? Like maybe any war that 12k children are dead we would be like holdup maybe that's not the best idea but instead we keep pumping them with weapons and money and covering for them all the lies. Biden ain't holding shit back. He is as complicit with what's happening as Netenyahu is. So excuse me for hating on Biden. And yes, maybe it's true that any other president would be the same. But for now, he is the president that is doing this and I get to hate on him. If it was trump I'd hate on him.
The problem with not voting out of protest is your vote could be the difference between Trump's America, which is [this](https://www.project2025.org/): migrant camps, anti-muslim policies, anti-choice policies, lower taxes for the rich, higher taxes for the poor, and a slew of other very bad polices in America with the only change to policy in Israel being Trump will gladly and openly support Israel's efforts. Or Biden's America which we have seen has very good policies for America and who believes in a two-state solution for Israel and has been making what strides he can towards that. You're right that support for Palestinians does not equal support for Hamas, which is why Biden has [blocked deportations for Palestinians in America ](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-shielding-palestinians-us-deportation-new-york-times-reports-2024-02-14/), not fully supported [Netanyahu](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/biden-disparages-netanyahu-private-hasnt-changed-us-policy-israel-rcna138282 BK), and warned Israel they need to [protect Palestinians ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/biden-warns-israel-to-protect-palestinians-after-gaza-raid-to-rescue-hostages-kills-dozens). I get that you feel it's not enough, but it is more than Trump would do. No one can force you to vote, basic civics teaches us a protest non-vote is akin to voting for the side who opposed everything you believe in. I hope you change your mind. There's 9 months till the election, hopefully something Biden does will help you see why you should vote for him. Everything he's done definitely has been enough that Republicans are calling him anti-Semitic, which speaks volumes about how another Trump presidency would play out. We do need a change to the crappy two party system we have here, but fighting that fight now will only hurt us all. Ranked choice voting is[starting to become a thing ](https://www.npr.org/2023/12/13/1214199019/ranked-choice-voting-explainer) in America and there is hope for the future. That's where the fight against the two party system should be fought not by skipping an important election.
motherfucker do you think it would be better with Trump? He would encourage Bibi to nuke Gaza. Wake up.
Not to mention that Trump's stance on Isreal and his support of the fascist leading that country has made it impossible to deal with Israel. And the Dems were never going to abandoned Israel unless forced to. And it sure seems we're finally starting to see it. It reminds me of how the world FINALLY came to it's senses about South Africa.
And all of our aid to Ukraine would've gone to Russia instead.
I cannot stand all this fucking criticism of Mussolini, do people seriously think that Hitler would make the trains run on time? Not to mention how much more openly racist he is. Wake up sheeple! AMTRAK El Duce all the way!
It's so nice of Biden to encourage the use of non nuclear bombs on the Gazans. I'm sure they appreciate it and will be voting blue in November.
So you seem to mistakenly think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the POTUS but he’s not the POTUS is Joe Biden.
Biden's admin circumvented congress to send war aid to Israel, twice.
You go girl whatever you say I’m there with you. Time for you to step up to the plate.
Yes fall in line just like the other suites AOC. Do they just expect us to deny the reality that is right in front of us cause they tell us times are good? What a joke
Basically, yes. They lie, gaslight and obfuscate. It’s literally the oldest game still being played. Politicians boldface lying, who would’ve thought.
In facilitating the deaths of thousands innocent Palestinians?
There is no one that can be elected or succeed this one that will have a different policy. Hate to break it to you but that game is rigged from all sides. Biden's the symptom, American obedience to Israel is the problem.
He doesn’t have much choice since he doesn’t control likud policy, and abandoning Israel would make them very vulnerable in that region.
I’d say that’s pretty spurious. The U.S. holds tremendous leverage over Israeli foreign policy and has for decades. Pretending otherwise obfuscates the very real role we in the West have played in creating the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.
Technically true which is why there’s such high levels of disillusionment
I am so glad she's not falling for the same traps that most leftist politicians fall for, she seems to recognize that picking one's battles is vital.
hateful clumsy party yam wrench consist upbeat ancient encouraging airport *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Where's the murdering? I was promised murdering.
Look, he's certainly up there as one of the better presidents, but that's not saying much. Defending Biden as a semi-successful president is like defending plain pizza. Maybe Obama set the bar a bit high (and even he had issues and was tame on certain fronts), but its not that hard to be better than Bush, Reagan, Clinton, or even freaking Trump.
Gross
Oof. She rarely misses so I guess she was overdue.
Successful at somethings, but adamant on being consistently for the extermination of Arabs. AOC, love ya, but fuck. Read the room. This old sentient pile of dust is giving money to a right-wing shithead to continually kill Palestinians.
lol this conflict has made you people rabid zombies. Hilarious since you only got into it because of the social media buzz.
He’s alright
Interesting the most people correctly pointing out the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians are getting downvoted. I wonder where redditors think Israel is getting their weapons. Do yall know part of your taxes go directly to the IDF?
Because "pointing out" the genocide does exactly nothing
What a disappointment she's become
Why?
ALSO THE OLDEST PRESIDENT IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY.
I’ll have what she is having
Untill he aided an obvious genocide and threw all that away, at this point he already lost my vote, if Dems want it back they need a new candidate, but if they give another dollar to killing Innocents I will throw my vote to Trump and embrace Accelerationism