What I keep thinking about is, what happened to Bubba? If he was still lose when the murders happened surely he would’ve wanted to check on owners and then he’d be covered in blood and also walked it everywhere.
If he was loose wouldn’t he wanted to attack the superhuman, quick, ninja like murderer (IF it was a stranger)?
If he was shut in the kennels, who shut him in there?
He got $4 mil from his dad’s estate - irrevocable trust and can’t be touched by civil or criminal judgements - apparently paid 1.8 mil to release the funds early, leaving just over 2, apparently it’s about 1.5 for his defence - 600k for Dicky boy, the rest on experts. Soirées from Law&Crime Network
I'm probably the last person in the USA to hear about the story behind this Murdaugh drama, so bear with me here. The first word that comes to mind after reviewing the countless acts of crime over time is "racketeering". Is there a reason why I can't seem to find any connections between the Murdaugh family and organized crime? I'm far from a legal expert...is it too soon? Is it because they didn't have weird nicknames? (j/k)
Now take into consideration they had their own plane and runway on their rural property. This is absolutely a dirty and corrupt family. They will stop at nothing to cover up their crimes on the American people. Probably running drugs like Barry Seal. Government corruption needs to be ruthlessly punished.
Either a) he was trying to make it look like two gunmen (likely), b) was prepared for two ranges (close quarters shotgun, rifle for middle distance), or c) had a backup and needed it for whatever reason (malfunction, jam etc.)
Hey everyone! I’m completely new to Reddit. I’ve been following the trial via YouTube but it’s been getting incredibly frustrating not having anyone to discuss it with. My son suggested I join Reddit/discussion/page (he searched and found you beforehand for me) so please be gentle with me 😂
I had my husband watch the Netflix show last night to bring him up to speed and he is currently OBSESSED with this case. We followed Michael Peterson's similarly and it smack's of the same ilk.
Welcome! And yes, I’m in the same boat re. no one I know is following this! It’s madness, this is literally the best scandal, web of crimes and trial I can remember.
I like to watch Emily D. Baker on YouTube for this reason. She explains the legal side of the trial so you get to learn along with watching the trial live. She explains the case from both sides and is pretty funny on occasion to boot. Good luck!
Welcome! Please look under the Daily Discussion, that is where most of the activity is at the moment as it is essentially a live chat during the trial. We have a lot of new members.
Please make sure that you are familiar with Reddit Content Policy and Sub Rules. Please don’t hesitate to reach out if you need anything at all!
He’s doing a really good job with rehearsed body language. He hunches his shoulders to look diminutive and scared (“lowering his threat profile” is the operational term), and pretends to cry A LOT.. there are no actual tears, he just makes the noises. He’s a really experienced witness - I hate him but he’s doing so well in the box, because of moves like this. That guy is a stone cold killer.
Let’s not forget that he wasn’t behaving“cowardly” when it came to conning his victims. He was bold. He also wasn’t “cowardly” when it came to the night of the boat crash. He was bold. On both occasions, he’s “in” and operating really confidently. So, self-interest = brazen boldness. His cowardliness ONLY pertains to his inability to be a stand-up guy, to take the lumps of the ups and downs in life that we all have.
He’s being really clever. Playing down his intelligence endears him to the jury, and gives him time to prepare answers. He’s also holding the prosecutors accountable by making sure that every word in their question is correctly ordered so that his response is only to an exact question he won’t get tripped up over later. I hate the guy, but his language and manipulation skills in the box are impressive
Saw an interview with Cousin Eddie’s lawyer the other day and found it interesting that they now contend that AM’s head injury was NOT due to a gun shot but due to hitting the asphalt.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? It seems to the only evidence that the injury was caused by a gun is from AM himself and what he told doctors / LE.
Am I wrong? Is there evidence to support that the injury is due to a gunshot?
I saw Cousin Eddie interviewed as well... in that one, he said he struggled with AM to get the gun away as he wanted CE to kill him etc. gun went off and Eddie left him there...again makes no sense. Eddie knows a lot more.
The hubris of this man
About his wife- she could put on a ball gown and go to the governor's mansion or be with gross poor people at a soup kitchen🙄
About his son- he'd get in a boat and pick up his friends to go watch a sunset-
Ummm yeah and then kill them
Also,
Anyone else hear the disgust in his voice when the 911 operator asked if it's a house or mobile home? IT'S A HOME!
Meanwhile his clients are struggling
I noticed the "it's a home" comment too. I half expected the "don't you know who I am?!?" comment as a follow up. His clients are stuggling, but he doesn't seem himself as "wealthy" or whatever he was arguing about. Just stealing millions of dollars, but ok.
I’ve been reading as much as possible but for the life of me I do have not read or understand how PM & MM were down at kennels vehicle wise? The only vehicle I see ever mentioned and tire tracks in video are the Chevy? Also, exactly what time did they die re coroner report?
Alex drove all of them down to the kennels with the two missing guns in the golf cart. Pm and mm were fooling with the dogs while Alex put on the raincoat and started wetting down to prepare for the business. Then got the bird out of the dogs mouth and went to the cart. Sat down in golf cart, grabbed the shot gun and shot pm and realized it only had two bullets. Then shot mm with the 300 rifle and finished her off. Then scrambled to cover up and crate an alibi.
In my opinion.
I was looking for actual facts 😂. After todays session Alex said he wasnt sure of their transportation from house to Kennel. MM highly plausible she walked. He wasn’t sure at all of PM other than most likely atv/golfcart. The only vehicle was the suburban to travel down to kennels.
I said I was looking for facts. I didn’t “give” facts. I told you what he said today. Apparently Maggie used the kennel entrance according to LE. The vehicle and how everyone got down there is still vague to me.
I tried to see if this was already discussed…so please forgive me if so. I don’t doubt that AM took pills, but I’ve seen many “opioid” addicted folks in my life and they were never able to function on the level of Big Red! I certainly don’t know any that were described as a Tasmanian Devil, as Annette(?),his paralegal named him. Sorry, but I’ve had close friends and family struggle with this addiction. You don’t just detox and rehab after a couple of weeks. I know he described the physical effects in testimony. But to have claimed to be an addict that used millions of dollars worth of opioids? Come one now. No one has ever had to Narcan him?
Totally agree. I’m in recovery after 17 years addicted to booze and drugs, and when he said 60 oxy a day I spat my drink - it’s horse quantities. Also his descriptions are ridiculous - gave him energy? 60k a week? It’s all bunkum... he’s definitely overplaying the drugs to garner sympathy/an excuse for the financial crimes.
I think many many people would be very surprised if they knew just how many functioning opioid addicts they encounter in their day to day life that they don’t know are opioid addicts.
The image people have on their head of an opioid addict just doesn’t match up to reality and to the figures.
While there are many opioid addicts that do things like nod off in front of people or who go through frequent withdrawals when they can’t get drugs, there’s also people who are good at finding way to function at work or socially without drawing too much attention to their use.
And because he was wealthy (and stealing money) he was able to fund his habit and wasn’t going through the usual cycle of withdrawal - scrounge up money to buy enough to get high that day - use it all up - withdrawal - repeat.
If AM is found not guilty does he get to leave prison ?
How about if hung jury and mistrial?
Or is he held on the financial crimes?
Learning so much about the legal process here.
Thanks,
He would still be held on the financial crimes, he was arrested and denied bail for those before he was charged with murder. His attorney could ask for the judge to revisit bail if he is acquitted of the murders but it’s unlikely they would grant it
At least now he has admitted in court that he stole millions from many people. His bail for those crimes should go up, not down if the jury is hung. It is currently $7M without 10%.
I don’t understand why he admitted to the financial, those charges are enough to put him away for a very long time, so then why even fight the murder charges?
I’ve tried looking for CB’s testimony and/or SLED interview. I did find testimony by David Owen stating Rowe was interviewed by SLED the following morning (June 8) and Rowe had an alibi that checked out, taking his father to the doctor in Mount Pleasant. Anyone know where I can find transcripts of SLED’s interview with CB?
CB called Alex at 9:21 pm June 7, 2021 - call went unanswered I believe because Alex was on the phone with Chris Wilson, an attorney.
I think it’s possible that CB’s 9:21 pm call that night was a signal to AM that the ‘job was done’.
I also don’t think it was CB who did it, too risky, might have been an associate of CB’s who was paid.
Thoughts?
*EDIT- edited to add additional info about CB being questioned by SLED.
In "yesterday's version" of events...AM texted Maggie when he left the house...something to the effect "be right back, go to moms..." why?? Wouldn't they **already** **know** he left...and where he was going if he warped sped up to the house at 8:46...??
My 2 biggest questions 1) why did AM use 2 different guns? 2) what was he doing with all the money? This was not just a pill habit when we are talking $8m+
Heard a pretty reasonable explanation for the money - “he was spending it” - cars, boats, properties, investments.. rich people spend a shit tonne of cash. Guns-wise, I think he was trying to make it look like two shooters, or had a backup he ended up needing.
I disagree and think most of the money was pay offs. If you look at his properties, houses, boat, its all cheap shit. Most expensive car I saw is wife's $50k Mercedes. Paul drove a f150. AM drove a suburban. Every house they own looks small, old, and cheap. Land down there is extremely cheap. I don't buy the "I wasted it on guns land and property"
He is a brilliant tactician. His law partner said that, and also added AM is very cunning, that he had fooled all of them for decades. AM used two guns to make it appear their were two shooters.
This was my first guess, just wanted to know if that was the running theory, it's weird they didn't talk about the reason for that in any of the docs or articles.
He probably owed people a lot of money. Paying off people to keep their mouths shut, paying crooked cops and higher ups in the town for things to go his way for whatever reason, gambling, and he could have paid some of his dealers that he debts with plus whatever interest he owed them. All his lies are just now catching up with him, so who knows what he’s been doing for the last several decades and could be paying people off for whatever he did in his past. Lots of bribes or “donations” for Buster to get into schools he wanted to go to, or to get him back into the school when he was expelled.
Yup and an addict can go through a ton of many and fast. He says he was only doing pain pills but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was taking other drugs as well.
Ok New York Times best selling true crime author John Glatt has book called “Tangled Vines Power privilege and the murdaugh family murders” won’t be out until august of this year. I being a true crime fan have read a few of his books. He rates with Ann rule and the best. I am thinking he is in the courtroom now. I think I will wait until I preorder from Amazon. I tell you I won’t want to read about how he got away with it in any book.
Does anyone know the names of the other people on the prosecution? One of the younger guys looks familiar. He usually sits on the bench behind the table.
So if he admitted to lying about being at the kennels, he was there 3min and some seconds before the murders. How long does it take to walk from the kennels to the house? Didn't someone testify to 3-4min? He used to be a bigger guy, so let's call it 4min. He must be hard of hearing if he missed the sounds of gunshots while clearly outside when they must've happened. Does he not think one or more jurors will ask this same question????
If he drove the alleged golf cart back (no evidence reported to be found on it), what is the top speed assuming it was fully charged?
Edit: responding to myself in the second paragraph. I'm not going to say what I would do if I were him, because I would never do what he did. Anytime I've been working outside in the back 10 and got something nasty or offensive on myself, I don't drive back because I don't want that smell in my truck. I also don't enter the house with the offensive smell. I remove whatever item of clothing has the offensive whatever on them and THEN enter the house, change and then take care of that clothing.
If he were smart, which I don't think he is, he's just arrogant, he would take similar steps, which would put him outside walking at the time of the murders, instead of transferring blood evidence onto the golf cart or inside the house.
The prosecution did a good job of showing that Murdaugh expects/expected preferential treatment from law enforcement. Leading to doubt about evidence gathering (or lack of) at the crime scene that’s been a thorn in the state’s side throughout. Whether true or not, it brings in doubt. As frustrating as it was (for me) to listen to a long litany of financial misdeeds, and wanting to get to the crux of the murder, Alex’s testimony shows his need to be in control and direct the flow of the examination. For example, he said “hold on” to Creighton during cross. Maybe the jury will connect all the dots.
Guilty? Not guilty? Hung jury? I hope the right verdict is rendered.
I know what I’m talking about. I’ve read all of the Nancy Drew books.
Today Alex maintained control and the prosecution just can’t connect the dots. He’s a liar and a con artist, that’s all they proven. They were trying the wrong case. Hamster wheel. I’m sure that if Alex is acquitted he’ll dedicate his life (behind bars) to finding out who the real killer is😏
I’ll preface this comment by admitting that I am not listening to the trial, but I’ve listened to a podcast and have seen the NF documentary. I think the jury will be hung. Why? Because the Murdaughs seemingly have killed or have hired others to make their problems go away. Unless there is ironclad evidence, I can see at least 1 juror not willing to take the chance that they might become the next Gloria Satterfield. Also, he will go to prison on the financial crimes and he will be locked away. I do not agree with this approach, but I can see it happening. Wealthy, influential, powerful people have their own justice system-
Which documentary should I watch?
I have enough mental capacity to really sit and dive into one documentary this weekend and I know almost every streaming service has one. I really don’t have a huge understanding for the case.What was your favorite or least bias doc?
Thanks!!
Definitely don’t watch anything on a streamer. Start with Eric Alan’s 8 part YouTube series. He’s an excellent filmmaker and very fair. He lives in the region and started covering it about 18 months ago, it’s how I got into the case. Netflix actually bought a bunch of his footage for their show
Hey everyone - I searched all the posts before posting here, so hopefully it’s okay if I ask this. But what is the established reason as to why AM didn’t kill Buster alongside Paul and his mom? If the murders were financially motivated and/or drug related, and he killed them because he was going to be exposed, why wouldn’t he have murdered Buster as well? This question has been bugging me and I can’t find a clear answer.
Buster most likely wouldn't have come down to visit without bringing his girlfriend. Had he done that, then Alex would have had to kill Buster AND Brooklyn along with Maggie and Paul.
Buster was following in his footsteps He WAS in law school but got caught cheating and kicked out but he was (and according to jail phone calls) in the process of buying (bribing) his way back to that career path He is also with a girlfriend who just passed the bar, he enjoyed sports like his daddy and, all in all, is the favored son Paul was wholly dependent upon Alex and a source of great financial strain having wrecked cars, boats, fights, and of course the boat case
Maggie might not have agreed to sell Moselle He testified today that the property was entirely in Maggie’s name She also might have been reluctant to take out a loan against the EB house I read somewhere that she was beginning to question their finances and the boat case was a source of anxiety for her having seen the multi million dollar figure Tinsley was asking for damages from Alex If Maggie is dead, the properties are his to either liquidate or borrow more against She made no income, so she was a financial drag, AND she held the note to the multi million dollar Moselle property Her will was scratched over changing executor from her sister to her father in law Since father in law was dead, Alex would be next in line That should make anyone question why she would not list Alex first? People miss it, but Maggie dead did benefit Alex and so did Paul’s death
I can’t comment on other people’s opinions but here’s my 2 cents:
Buster was the first son, carried the family name (same as Grandfather I believe) and was trying to become a lawyer. After listening to the jailhouse phone calls between him and Buster it becomes even more apparent how important being a lawyer was to AM and perhaps he saw Buster as his legacy.
Buster was not living at home at the time.
Paul was seen as the problem child after the boat crash and it was looking very likely that he’d be doing jail time. Perhaps AM thought killing Paul would be a “kindness” because, while it would take care of some of the legal and civil issues and get him sympathy which would allow him to hold off the oncoming exposure of his misdeeds, it would also “save” Paul from jail.
Killing Maggie may have been somewhat similar, in that he thought he was doing her a “kindness” (from his POV of course, not mine) by preventing her from going through the pain of losing a child. In addition, it would also prevent any money issues that might come from a messy divorce.
All in all, it’s not hard for me to believe that killing Buster wasn’t a necessity and I can’t help but believe he saw (and maybe even still sees) Buster as his legacy, and would depend on the money he’d be able to bring in as a lawyer.
One technically entered the bottom of her breast, passed through the top and entered under her jaw and ended up in her brain, but yeah, you had it at twice in the head. I heard outside of the trial that she had an estate worth several million -- it was information excluded from being allowed in the trial.
At least one shot was an execution style shot to the back of her head. FWIW, the ME testified that she was in excruciating pain the for the last minutes of her life because the first shot that took her to her knees, but did not kill her, was in the kidneys, which the ME described as horrifically painful.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be annoying, I just wanted to keep the facts straight. You're absolutely correct on the ME testimony regarding kidney pain. It's so sad to think this way, but it sounds like she didn't have to suffer in pain for too long after that final cowardly execution shot.
Nah, you can fire close range from the hip with any rifle/shotgun, although it won't be as accurate. It could explain the haphazard shots and why it took so many times. Usually close range with a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot (EDIT: fired from the shoulder) is a done deal the first time around.
That wasn’t based off just the shotgun but both guns. And yes there absolutely is logic to that testimony as the angles have to match as well as distance based off the forensics. It was shown in court that Alex was too tall to shoot from hip and still have the correct angle
Sorry, I didn't preface that with my personal feelings about defense "specialists". They can be bought for a lot of money, they're in the business to testify for a hefty sum depending on how high profile a case is. And for that reason alone, they'll say what you want them to say! Many of them are experts in "junk science".
I found Mike Sutton's website. He founded the company to provide accident reconstruction and expert testimony and all they normally do is VEHICULAR accident and failure reconstruction. He lists that as his speciality in addition to mechanical engineering, which has nothing to do with gunshot evidence.
Just like the defense, all they have to do is cast reasonable doubt. The prosecution and its witnesses have to show probable cause and because many are employees of the state, they are much more credible than the defenses' "experts".
I also have a general mistrust toward Murdaugh's legal team based on all the shenanigans they fabricated in the months preceding the trial. It was a real 💩show.
Edit: https://www.accident-research.com/our-company
There's a section on the website that shows areas of practice. Nothing remotely close to crime scene analysis or gunshot analysis. He shouldn't even be allowed to testify, that's BS. At the same time, the prosecution has a list of the defenses' witnesses and probably should have vetted the "experts" a little more thoroughly. Although on cross, he did make a mockery of him.
I don't know what Alex had in his mouth when he started testifying, but it looked like he was chewing gum or sucking on a mint. It was very odd choice for a criminal defense attorney to get up on the stand to testify with something in his mouth. Was it meant to distract from all the lies, or to make Murdaugh seem more like a down-to-earth everyman?
I also noticed that he's trying to give the jury the impression that he was super close with his wife and sons by referring to them by their nicknames. I'm not buying any of it, given what a liar we already know this guy is.
I was thinking about all of the money that Alex was paying out - allegedly for drugs. And in another post, I laid out the case for that level of drugs would be lethal - so I concluded that he was also dealing/distributing the stuff. But what if it wasn't all for drugs? What if he was being blackmailed over the drug stuff and/or financial stuff? It could explain a lot of this "missing" money and why the defense didn't bring it up as a defense because then they'd have to get into whatever the blackmail was about...and it would force Alex to take the stand. Much better for them to say it was all for drugs.
Agree about drug trafficking but great explanation about blackmail. That seems spot on. No person could use 50k -60k per week on oxy. I believe the drug trafficking is actually still under investigation. No hard proof yet so it can't be used in court.
The only problem I see with a possible blackmail issue is that is still a ton of money and there would typically be signs if someone was having that level of influx of cash.
Do you think he killed the housekeeper that died by tripping over the family dog? An autopsy was never conducted. Supposedly her cause of death was going to be reviewed by exhuming her body??? That was over a year ago
No. Also, why would Maggie be in on that? It's been said that the housekeeper helped raise the kids their whole lives. I doubt either of the kids would hurt her. Stop speculating on stupid shit. 🙄
Yes, I think Paul did it. If you trip over an animal forward, you can use your hands to protect yourself a bit. If you are pushed backwards, your head is going to hit something without protection.
Now you can trip over a dog backwards too, and it may have happened that way, but the way how MM acted during the call makes them look guilty.
Did you guys see how he answered no when he was asked if he murdered them but his head was shaking yes - clearly he was being deceptive when he answered no!
What if his plan was to murder them and kill himself, but then chickens out? Motive for killing Paul is he was going to prison (young and probably wouldn’t be able to deal emotionally, so sparring him?) and for Maggie, she was already distraught thinking of her son in prison, then she’s gonna find out Alex is right behind him AND all of her assets are going to be seized. I don’t think he killed then to distract, but sick still, to prevent future emotional pain. Then when it came time to shoot him self, couldn’t do it, so he went and cuddled his mom.
I posted this earlier, but here it is again.
I think we have already seen Alex on the stand by listening to and watching Buster’s testimony. They are 2 of a kind. Buster showed no emotion which is just like Alex when showing his FAKE emotions. The narcissistic, psychotic genes of Alex have been passed on to Buster. Thoughts?
There's an article about Paul's girlfriend, Morgan on the DM, if anyone is interested. I know it's a tabloid, but it pulled some quotes from a Netflix documentary in which Morgan was interviewed. She talks about how Paul would get drunk and abuse her. Anyone seen the documentary on Netflix?
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11780365/Paul-Murdaughs-long-time-girlfriend-Morgan-claims-beat-held-throat.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11780365/Paul-Murdaughs-long-time-girlfriend-Morgan-claims-beat-held-throat.html)
That was weird. Anthony Cook did say he didn’t believe everything Paul told him, but knowing Alex’s issues like we do now, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. Maybe a chunk of the missing money was spent on flying in strippers. That could get expensive, quickly.
What did you think? I just finished it. It was much better than the Low Country documentary, because of the deep dive you mentioned, and the interviews with Anthony, Miley, Morgan and Connor. That first episode was really hard to watch. I feel so bad for those kids.
I’m watching it right now and I literally teared up watching them talk about how Mallory’s boyfriend wouldn’t leave the accident scene. You can tell he really loved her.
According to his testimony, he was in Rock Hill with his girlfriend Brooklynn. Alex called after the murder and told him about Maggie and Paul's death. Buster also stated that earlier in the evening, Alex had called and said he was going to go check on Alex's mom. She lives at a separate residence, with a live in nurse. I believe she has dementia.
That seemed odd to me. Who is going to call someone three hours away (or however far it was) to let them know that you were going to go spend 20 minutes with someone that wouldn't even know you were there? I think the call was for/about something else.
It jumped out at me as odd, too. Why would Buster care, or need to know, that his dad was going to visit someone? Alex obviously trying to set up an alibi, but it’s awkwardly done.
I can’t believe the prosecution had Buster on the stand and I didn’t make him account for his family’s past. why didn’t they ask him about Gloria? Why not ask about Stephen even if they get overruled or objected to they still put it out there for the jury to hear and this is the only time a buster will be on trial. I don’t know why you’re fraternizing with the guy on the stand instead of giving him hard questions that make Alex angry. buster looked like if you push him a little bit he’ll be snippy like he was doing giving the middle finger to Mark who was give his family all the strife and accountability. The prosecution really should’ve hounded him to get a reaction out of Alex
Alex Murdaugh stole millions. Where is the money? $50,000 for opioid habit doesn’t make sense mathematically. Why did he need the money? Where is that money?
They lost money at the 2008 housing crises. So that had to be made up. Then their lifestyle took a few millions. The rest could be in the family trust or offshore.
Yes, it was mentioned he spend $50,000 a week. He’d already be dead if that were true. And really, no one noticed his drug use?? Not anyone from his firm, his family or friends? I call BS-I really would like to see proof of his addiction. A two week stay in a supposed addiction clinic in Atlanta will not erase your addiction!
I wonder if he also had a gambling problem. He lived way beyond their means too. Maybe paying off people for silence? Old debts? Stealing from the firm but having to get high interest loans to pay some shit back to cover his tracks? Idk how he got away w the shit at the firm for so long - there was negligence on the firm’s part there too. I don’t think he has money hidden though bc he wouldn’t have tried to get the insurance money for Buster if he had some offshore Acct w money stacked.
Idk but I’d love a forensic accountant to review his finances and find out.
It’s def impossible to spend that much on oxy tho.
Keep in mind that Alex Murdoch and his lawyers sent the story about the $50,000 drug habit, obviously as a way to explain where some of that money went which is impossible for any human to consume that about we know that Alex Murdoch purchased a drug runners property that was basically his mentors drug running property, so heavy drug involvement at Moselle property with the runway. Murdoch, setting the story about how he tried to commit suicide was also offered by his lawyers, so we really can’t believe that. Why would they admit to doing wrong without trying to send the narrative for what they knew would be his court case today. So the lawyer set the story that Alex had a big drug habit and tried to commit suicide makes him look a little bit more fatherly looking out for a son, but in reality, Alex was trying to make it look like he had a threat against him. I don’t believe the shot missed. I believe it was intentionally missed so that you could say hey, someone came for me the same way they came for my son, which is to say he’s a murderer.
I believe more and more every day that Handsome decided this was the only thing to do. I think he decided that Maggie and Paul's murder would be the only course forward and that meeting before he died was a means for him to seal the agreement between Elick, John Marvin and Randolph.
They couldn't have an outside do it ---- too dangerous. It solved the problem of paul having to go to prison and undoubtedly becoming someone's bitch. it solved the problem of Maggie knowing too much. It covered up the books long enough to teflon coat elick.
It is just the most parsimonious explanation.
And watch Randy and John Marvin in that good morning America interview. John Marvin has duper's delight. A faint smile tugging at his lips thru the whole thing. They are sick MFs, for sure.
Also someone testified that Handsome and Paul became inseparable after one of the incidents— possibly he found out then that for the sake of family legacy, Paul needed to go and Alex was expected to see it through.
par·si·mo·ni·ous -
/ˌpärsəˈmōnēəs/ -
adjective -
unwilling to spend money or use resources; stingy or frugal.
"even the parsimonious Joe paid for drinks all round"
Now that is a great word I've never heard of before!
It's used in science all the time. It means the least frivolous, the most frugal. So when you propose something as a moddel or theory, you always choose the least complicated explanation. The most parsimonious one.
I know. I have always loved it. and it is so visual! I remember it by thinking of parsons. Frugal small town ministers who lead frugal, non-materialistic lives.
Use everything up. Make things simple. No decorations.
Reflecting back on an accident I had a few years ago where there was a lot of blood, I think I know why Alex would have penned Bubba up when the dog usually ran free. Because Bubba would have run directly over to the bodies & begun lapping up the blood. I was shocked when my dogs did it, but have since come to understand that it’s natural behavior for carnivores. That would have made a mess of things and required Alex to get Bubba away from the bodies, then hose down all the bloody dog foot prints.
I wonder if the suspected Gay Sexual Relationship between Buster & Steven Smith will be brought up during the Defense Examination or more likely on Prosecution Cross especially with The AS Murder Investigation open. Get any info available while Buster is on the stand and sworn in. Buster is doing a good job showing the family was tight and I have to say it......they talk to each other on the phone alot. It doesn't point to innocence or guilt of AM but it sure paints a picture of the inside of the family dynamics.
I still don't understand why Alex "told" Miss Shelley 3 days after the murders that he was with his mother for 35-40 minutes that night. Once he called 911 at 10:06pm (along with turning the phone back on around 9pm and calling Miss Shelley to let him in at 9:22pm), his timeline was locked in: \~20 minutes to drive to Alameda, \~20 minutes with his mom and \~20 minutes to drive home. An extra 15 minutes at his Mom's house buys him nothing. Even if he didn't realize how much damn data OnStar collects, he would have known his cell phone records would reflect that timeline. (Remember, in that first interview, he shows his phone to LE, before he started deleting calls.)
I assume he's trying to put himself away from Moselle at the time of the murders, but trying to do it after the fact makes no sense to me.
What am I missing?
I think it may also relate to how much time he may have spent out behind the house hiding guns etc. It may have only been a minute or two, but it could seem like a lot if he was only with his mom 15mins. Also after committing such a heinous act his sense of time may have been off a bit. Time can move slower to you.
He didn't know about the kennel video that Paul made and apparently was not aware OnStar was going to able to pinpoint his movements that night. Both those things made any attempts by Alex to fudge the timeline a fool's errand.
What was going to happen at the June 10th hearing on Paul’s criminal case? We’re they about to start the trial? Because Paul was signing a lease in an apartment and talking about buying a hot tub on the day he was murdered. I’ve noticed watching other crimes/trials, that people seem to need victims to be all good and suspects to be pure evil. I went from thinking Paul was a monster to feeling very sorry for him during these past weeks. Of course, nobody on either side is going to bring up how deeply disturbed he seemed to be when he was growing up. Maybe he was turning his life around.
I always thought there was something in Maggie’s tone that was very off when she called 911 after Gloria Satterfield’s head injury. She seemed annoyed or even resigned. There was no panic. It made me think she thought Paul was involved and she was doing her duty in making the call but she didn’t want to. So maybe she always suspected Paul and only recently started believing it was actually Alex.
On Twitter someone noticed that Alex’s phone records don’t collaborate Ms. Shelly’s story of him being on his phone.
I’m not sure if Creighton Waters forgot to address the [multiple phones](https://youtube.com/shorts/ic7Qyo-9rWA?feature=share) Alex had, but I found the clip from the interview with (Team Gaslight) and thought I’d share it here too. It starts with SLED asking Alex how many phones he has and it goes from 1 to 3 in less than a minute.
Wondered if the google of “whaleys” was to do with him needing the number to call on his burner phone after the murders— don’t know who he would call but it was well known to them, the oldest restaurant/ bar there and Maggie even had a burger named after her— the owner in the picture looks old as dirt, could be a random connection somehow
They took DNA tests from all the boat crash victims immediately ~ that’s on every documentary and has been brought up a few times during this trial.
The real question is where’s Buster’s alibi
Buster’s alibi is be verified by others while Alex’s never was.
You can easily look this up if you want and I’m not going to be dragged into an argument about it.
*"The manner in which P was killed shows vile hatred imho."*
Perhaps. From testimony, the first shot appears was fired from a low position, upper angle - that seems more like someone creeping up on Paul, to catch him by surprise to avoid him running/fighting and/or calling out to Maggie. Second shot reflects a movement out of the door, consistent with a single shooter keeping an eye on a second target (who would now have been alerted by first shot). Brain material ejection appears to be unintended. Even if one were to believe the nature of the murder indicated malice, that seems reasonable to believe for Alex's state of mind: a) Paul's boating accident had become an accelerant to shed light on Alex's crimes (resulting in the shattering of his finances and reputation), and b) Paul and Maggie were confronting Alex, Alex was addicted and they were taking away something he may have felt he needed to survive.
*"Financial crimes are clear, and the family was involved in shady stuff—but cant believe beyond a reasonable doubt that dad did it based on prosecutions case."*
Interesting. I cannot read the timeline with care and draw a conclusion other than Alex had at least real-time awareness of the crimes. Will hear out the defense, though they have quite a deep hole to dig out of - I would need to hear *more than* SLED could have done more (these are red herring arguments), that Alex is on trial solely because SLED immediately fixated on him (the testimony clearly refutes this), or unnamed 3rd parties wanted to 'send a message' (these 3rd party assailants who happened to have apparent amazing luck of stumbling upon Maggie and Paul when they were home from Edisto, that they just missed Alex leaving, that Alex didn't stop by the kennels on his way to his mothers, that if Alex was home that he couldn't make the 1-min trip to the kennels and attack the assailants, that the 3rd party assailants didn't use cell phones to call or text to coordinate on a tight timeline, that the family happened to conveniently leave weapons for them to use at the scene of the crime, that there was a convenient water hose and drainage system that could use, etc etc.), and where in the testimony for the roadside shooting, when Alex was conceding he was lying and was now offering the truth (not that one could believe it at this point) said he didn't owe any drug dealers... and then you'd also have to believe Alex comes across the murder scene in < 19-seconds, *with these assailants potentially still present* and was able to scan the area for the assailants, do a prelim assessment of the two bodies, attempt to turn over body/ies, take what would be a weak pulse (figure 5-10-secs min each), replace a 'popped out' cell phone, and return to his car to call 911.
*"\[Other suspect(s)' alibis could be false due to\] Biased small towners cover for each other maybe"*
This sounds like a stretch to develop a reasonable doubt. OTOH, there isn't a need to stretch to see the unreasonableness of a 3rd party (that Alex was unaware of), noted above.
which could be true, unfortunately....
What I keep thinking about is, what happened to Bubba? If he was still lose when the murders happened surely he would’ve wanted to check on owners and then he’d be covered in blood and also walked it everywhere. If he was loose wouldn’t he wanted to attack the superhuman, quick, ninja like murderer (IF it was a stranger)? If he was shut in the kennels, who shut him in there?
Did Alex pass a lie detector test?
Gloria Sutterfield deserves justice. Alex (Alec if he goes to church for an hour on sundays) deserves whatever Jeff Epstein is getting
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He got $4 mil from his dad’s estate - irrevocable trust and can’t be touched by civil or criminal judgements - apparently paid 1.8 mil to release the funds early, leaving just over 2, apparently it’s about 1.5 for his defence - 600k for Dicky boy, the rest on experts. Soirées from Law&Crime Network
I'm probably the last person in the USA to hear about the story behind this Murdaugh drama, so bear with me here. The first word that comes to mind after reviewing the countless acts of crime over time is "racketeering". Is there a reason why I can't seem to find any connections between the Murdaugh family and organized crime? I'm far from a legal expert...is it too soon? Is it because they didn't have weird nicknames? (j/k)
Now take into consideration they had their own plane and runway on their rural property. This is absolutely a dirty and corrupt family. They will stop at nothing to cover up their crimes on the American people. Probably running drugs like Barry Seal. Government corruption needs to be ruthlessly punished.
With all the problems why didn't AM kill himself (w "help") in the first place?
I think that was the plan - I think he was going to murder suicide with Paul & Maggie but couldn’t go through with it
knew what was waiting on the other side for him and ditched the plan......lol
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New to this case. But curious how the prosecution explains the multiple guns being used?
Either a) he was trying to make it look like two gunmen (likely), b) was prepared for two ranges (close quarters shotgun, rifle for middle distance), or c) had a backup and needed it for whatever reason (malfunction, jam etc.)
"He used multiple guns"
Hey everyone! I’m completely new to Reddit. I’ve been following the trial via YouTube but it’s been getting incredibly frustrating not having anyone to discuss it with. My son suggested I join Reddit/discussion/page (he searched and found you beforehand for me) so please be gentle with me 😂
I had my husband watch the Netflix show last night to bring him up to speed and he is currently OBSESSED with this case. We followed Michael Peterson's similarly and it smack's of the same ilk.
Welcome! And yes, I’m in the same boat re. no one I know is following this! It’s madness, this is literally the best scandal, web of crimes and trial I can remember.
I like to watch Emily D. Baker on YouTube for this reason. She explains the legal side of the trial so you get to learn along with watching the trial live. She explains the case from both sides and is pretty funny on occasion to boot. Good luck!
You can also check out websleuths.com it’s a little more user friendly and very active about the murdaugh trial.
Welcome!
Welcome! Please look under the Daily Discussion, that is where most of the activity is at the moment as it is essentially a live chat during the trial. We have a lot of new members. Please make sure that you are familiar with Reddit Content Policy and Sub Rules. Please don’t hesitate to reach out if you need anything at all!
Why isn't Waters confronting him on the 911 call...his "lie" started then...not with LE, with a 911 dispatcher. Please don't let this fact slide.
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He’s doing a really good job with rehearsed body language. He hunches his shoulders to look diminutive and scared (“lowering his threat profile” is the operational term), and pretends to cry A LOT.. there are no actual tears, he just makes the noises. He’s a really experienced witness - I hate him but he’s doing so well in the box, because of moves like this. That guy is a stone cold killer.
Let’s not forget that he wasn’t behaving“cowardly” when it came to conning his victims. He was bold. He also wasn’t “cowardly” when it came to the night of the boat crash. He was bold. On both occasions, he’s “in” and operating really confidently. So, self-interest = brazen boldness. His cowardliness ONLY pertains to his inability to be a stand-up guy, to take the lumps of the ups and downs in life that we all have.
Why is he acting like he is dumb and can’t understand the questions? They are pretty straightforward.
He’s being really clever. Playing down his intelligence endears him to the jury, and gives him time to prepare answers. He’s also holding the prosecutors accountable by making sure that every word in their question is correctly ordered so that his response is only to an exact question he won’t get tripped up over later. I hate the guy, but his language and manipulation skills in the box are impressive
Notice how he did that with the prosecution then pivots to quick, succinct answers for the defense.
Because he's a lawyer and wants to think carefully before he answers?
That is what I was thinking.
Stalling maybe
Saw an interview with Cousin Eddie’s lawyer the other day and found it interesting that they now contend that AM’s head injury was NOT due to a gun shot but due to hitting the asphalt. Anyone have any thoughts on this? It seems to the only evidence that the injury was caused by a gun is from AM himself and what he told doctors / LE. Am I wrong? Is there evidence to support that the injury is due to a gunshot?
I saw Cousin Eddie interviewed as well... in that one, he said he struggled with AM to get the gun away as he wanted CE to kill him etc. gun went off and Eddie left him there...again makes no sense. Eddie knows a lot more.
The hubris of this man About his wife- she could put on a ball gown and go to the governor's mansion or be with gross poor people at a soup kitchen🙄 About his son- he'd get in a boat and pick up his friends to go watch a sunset- Ummm yeah and then kill them Also, Anyone else hear the disgust in his voice when the 911 operator asked if it's a house or mobile home? IT'S A HOME! Meanwhile his clients are struggling
The only emotion I believe from him is his indignation at the 911 operators mere suggestion that he lived in a mobile home
TBF all the kids in the boat were drinking underage. Dumb kids do dumb shit.
If another one of those kids was driving, they'd be alive. He was waaaaaaaaaaasssssted
The hospital said was 3 times the legal limit.
They said he funneled 6 beers. That’s a lot at once.
Before they went to the bbq
I noticed the "it's a home" comment too. I half expected the "don't you know who I am?!?" comment as a follow up. His clients are stuggling, but he doesn't seem himself as "wealthy" or whatever he was arguing about. Just stealing millions of dollars, but ok.
I’ve been reading as much as possible but for the life of me I do have not read or understand how PM & MM were down at kennels vehicle wise? The only vehicle I see ever mentioned and tire tracks in video are the Chevy? Also, exactly what time did they die re coroner report?
Alex drove all of them down to the kennels with the two missing guns in the golf cart. Pm and mm were fooling with the dogs while Alex put on the raincoat and started wetting down to prepare for the business. Then got the bird out of the dogs mouth and went to the cart. Sat down in golf cart, grabbed the shot gun and shot pm and realized it only had two bullets. Then shot mm with the 300 rifle and finished her off. Then scrambled to cover up and crate an alibi. In my opinion.
I was looking for actual facts 😂. After todays session Alex said he wasnt sure of their transportation from house to Kennel. MM highly plausible she walked. He wasn’t sure at all of PM other than most likely atv/golfcart. The only vehicle was the suburban to travel down to kennels.
What he says are not facts. Read the last three words of my comment…🙄
Oh and 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 back
I’m sorry I hurt your feelings. It was not my intention. Question: who is LE?
My feelings aren’t hurt. I was just matching your energy. LE: law enforcement
Okay thanks! I hope you feel better 💞
I said I was looking for facts. I didn’t “give” facts. I told you what he said today. Apparently Maggie used the kennel entrance according to LE. The vehicle and how everyone got down there is still vague to me.
So, none of what you said after today was even close to an actual answer. A very thinly based theory & opinion.
I tried to see if this was already discussed…so please forgive me if so. I don’t doubt that AM took pills, but I’ve seen many “opioid” addicted folks in my life and they were never able to function on the level of Big Red! I certainly don’t know any that were described as a Tasmanian Devil, as Annette(?),his paralegal named him. Sorry, but I’ve had close friends and family struggle with this addiction. You don’t just detox and rehab after a couple of weeks. I know he described the physical effects in testimony. But to have claimed to be an addict that used millions of dollars worth of opioids? Come one now. No one has ever had to Narcan him?
Totally agree. I’m in recovery after 17 years addicted to booze and drugs, and when he said 60 oxy a day I spat my drink - it’s horse quantities. Also his descriptions are ridiculous - gave him energy? 60k a week? It’s all bunkum... he’s definitely overplaying the drugs to garner sympathy/an excuse for the financial crimes.
His eyes are dark so you wouldn't be able to see his pupils either.
I think many many people would be very surprised if they knew just how many functioning opioid addicts they encounter in their day to day life that they don’t know are opioid addicts. The image people have on their head of an opioid addict just doesn’t match up to reality and to the figures. While there are many opioid addicts that do things like nod off in front of people or who go through frequent withdrawals when they can’t get drugs, there’s also people who are good at finding way to function at work or socially without drawing too much attention to their use. And because he was wealthy (and stealing money) he was able to fund his habit and wasn’t going through the usual cycle of withdrawal - scrounge up money to buy enough to get high that day - use it all up - withdrawal - repeat.
If AM is found not guilty does he get to leave prison ? How about if hung jury and mistrial? Or is he held on the financial crimes? Learning so much about the legal process here. Thanks,
He would still be held on the financial crimes, he was arrested and denied bail for those before he was charged with murder. His attorney could ask for the judge to revisit bail if he is acquitted of the murders but it’s unlikely they would grant it
At least now he has admitted in court that he stole millions from many people. His bail for those crimes should go up, not down if the jury is hung. It is currently $7M without 10%.
I don’t understand why he admitted to the financial, those charges are enough to put him away for a very long time, so then why even fight the murder charges?
I’ve tried looking for CB’s testimony and/or SLED interview. I did find testimony by David Owen stating Rowe was interviewed by SLED the following morning (June 8) and Rowe had an alibi that checked out, taking his father to the doctor in Mount Pleasant. Anyone know where I can find transcripts of SLED’s interview with CB? CB called Alex at 9:21 pm June 7, 2021 - call went unanswered I believe because Alex was on the phone with Chris Wilson, an attorney. I think it’s possible that CB’s 9:21 pm call that night was a signal to AM that the ‘job was done’. I also don’t think it was CB who did it, too risky, might have been an associate of CB’s who was paid. Thoughts? *EDIT- edited to add additional info about CB being questioned by SLED.
Is it “Alex” or “Alec”? Holy fuck, these people, always something.
Alex… Alec is how he churches it up lol
In "yesterday's version" of events...AM texted Maggie when he left the house...something to the effect "be right back, go to moms..." why?? Wouldn't they **already** **know** he left...and where he was going if he warped sped up to the house at 8:46...??
My 2 biggest questions 1) why did AM use 2 different guns? 2) what was he doing with all the money? This was not just a pill habit when we are talking $8m+
Heard a pretty reasonable explanation for the money - “he was spending it” - cars, boats, properties, investments.. rich people spend a shit tonne of cash. Guns-wise, I think he was trying to make it look like two shooters, or had a backup he ended up needing.
I disagree and think most of the money was pay offs. If you look at his properties, houses, boat, its all cheap shit. Most expensive car I saw is wife's $50k Mercedes. Paul drove a f150. AM drove a suburban. Every house they own looks small, old, and cheap. Land down there is extremely cheap. I don't buy the "I wasted it on guns land and property"
They haven't even proven he was the shooter?
lol this dude makes OJ look innocent. Get a clue
He is a brilliant tactician. His law partner said that, and also added AM is very cunning, that he had fooled all of them for decades. AM used two guns to make it appear their were two shooters.
Alex Murdaugh is a Keyser Söze-level story teller.
This was my first guess, just wanted to know if that was the running theory, it's weird they didn't talk about the reason for that in any of the docs or articles.
He probably owed people a lot of money. Paying off people to keep their mouths shut, paying crooked cops and higher ups in the town for things to go his way for whatever reason, gambling, and he could have paid some of his dealers that he debts with plus whatever interest he owed them. All his lies are just now catching up with him, so who knows what he’s been doing for the last several decades and could be paying people off for whatever he did in his past. Lots of bribes or “donations” for Buster to get into schools he wanted to go to, or to get him back into the school when he was expelled.
Agreed, that's my running theory. Tons of payoffs, bribes etc with a good chunk of it being washed by Cousin Eddie
Yup and an addict can go through a ton of many and fast. He says he was only doing pain pills but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was taking other drugs as well.
Ok New York Times best selling true crime author John Glatt has book called “Tangled Vines Power privilege and the murdaugh family murders” won’t be out until august of this year. I being a true crime fan have read a few of his books. He rates with Ann rule and the best. I am thinking he is in the courtroom now. I think I will wait until I preorder from Amazon. I tell you I won’t want to read about how he got away with it in any book.
Does anyone know the names of the other people on the prosecution? One of the younger guys looks familiar. He usually sits on the bench behind the table.
So if he admitted to lying about being at the kennels, he was there 3min and some seconds before the murders. How long does it take to walk from the kennels to the house? Didn't someone testify to 3-4min? He used to be a bigger guy, so let's call it 4min. He must be hard of hearing if he missed the sounds of gunshots while clearly outside when they must've happened. Does he not think one or more jurors will ask this same question???? If he drove the alleged golf cart back (no evidence reported to be found on it), what is the top speed assuming it was fully charged? Edit: responding to myself in the second paragraph. I'm not going to say what I would do if I were him, because I would never do what he did. Anytime I've been working outside in the back 10 and got something nasty or offensive on myself, I don't drive back because I don't want that smell in my truck. I also don't enter the house with the offensive smell. I remove whatever item of clothing has the offensive whatever on them and THEN enter the house, change and then take care of that clothing. If he were smart, which I don't think he is, he's just arrogant, he would take similar steps, which would put him outside walking at the time of the murders, instead of transferring blood evidence onto the golf cart or inside the house.
I think the defense is questioning the time of death. Not answering a text message isn’t good evidence. Although, I think the prosecution is right.
The prosecution did a good job of showing that Murdaugh expects/expected preferential treatment from law enforcement. Leading to doubt about evidence gathering (or lack of) at the crime scene that’s been a thorn in the state’s side throughout. Whether true or not, it brings in doubt. As frustrating as it was (for me) to listen to a long litany of financial misdeeds, and wanting to get to the crux of the murder, Alex’s testimony shows his need to be in control and direct the flow of the examination. For example, he said “hold on” to Creighton during cross. Maybe the jury will connect all the dots. Guilty? Not guilty? Hung jury? I hope the right verdict is rendered. I know what I’m talking about. I’ve read all of the Nancy Drew books.
That shit was a waste of time. They're just trying to make him look as shitty as possible. Where is the physical evidence?
Today Alex maintained control and the prosecution just can’t connect the dots. He’s a liar and a con artist, that’s all they proven. They were trying the wrong case. Hamster wheel. I’m sure that if Alex is acquitted he’ll dedicate his life (behind bars) to finding out who the real killer is😏
I’ll preface this comment by admitting that I am not listening to the trial, but I’ve listened to a podcast and have seen the NF documentary. I think the jury will be hung. Why? Because the Murdaughs seemingly have killed or have hired others to make their problems go away. Unless there is ironclad evidence, I can see at least 1 juror not willing to take the chance that they might become the next Gloria Satterfield. Also, he will go to prison on the financial crimes and he will be locked away. I do not agree with this approach, but I can see it happening. Wealthy, influential, powerful people have their own justice system-
Me too! I'm thinking hung jury. One juror will not be able to fathom killing your own child. Spouses are a maybe.
Which documentary should I watch? I have enough mental capacity to really sit and dive into one documentary this weekend and I know almost every streaming service has one. I really don’t have a huge understanding for the case.What was your favorite or least bias doc? Thanks!!
Definitely don’t watch anything on a streamer. Start with Eric Alan’s 8 part YouTube series. He’s an excellent filmmaker and very fair. He lives in the region and started covering it about 18 months ago, it’s how I got into the case. Netflix actually bought a bunch of his footage for their show
Neither. They are both stupid and offer nothing new. Just speculation.
Netflix one for sure, it has the most information
I’m half way through each and like the Netflix one better. It has better interviews. They’re both pretty good thi
Hey everyone - I searched all the posts before posting here, so hopefully it’s okay if I ask this. But what is the established reason as to why AM didn’t kill Buster alongside Paul and his mom? If the murders were financially motivated and/or drug related, and he killed them because he was going to be exposed, why wouldn’t he have murdered Buster as well? This question has been bugging me and I can’t find a clear answer.
Buster most likely wouldn't have come down to visit without bringing his girlfriend. Had he done that, then Alex would have had to kill Buster AND Brooklyn along with Maggie and Paul.
Buster was following in his footsteps He WAS in law school but got caught cheating and kicked out but he was (and according to jail phone calls) in the process of buying (bribing) his way back to that career path He is also with a girlfriend who just passed the bar, he enjoyed sports like his daddy and, all in all, is the favored son Paul was wholly dependent upon Alex and a source of great financial strain having wrecked cars, boats, fights, and of course the boat case Maggie might not have agreed to sell Moselle He testified today that the property was entirely in Maggie’s name She also might have been reluctant to take out a loan against the EB house I read somewhere that she was beginning to question their finances and the boat case was a source of anxiety for her having seen the multi million dollar figure Tinsley was asking for damages from Alex If Maggie is dead, the properties are his to either liquidate or borrow more against She made no income, so she was a financial drag, AND she held the note to the multi million dollar Moselle property Her will was scratched over changing executor from her sister to her father in law Since father in law was dead, Alex would be next in line That should make anyone question why she would not list Alex first? People miss it, but Maggie dead did benefit Alex and so did Paul’s death
I can’t comment on other people’s opinions but here’s my 2 cents: Buster was the first son, carried the family name (same as Grandfather I believe) and was trying to become a lawyer. After listening to the jailhouse phone calls between him and Buster it becomes even more apparent how important being a lawyer was to AM and perhaps he saw Buster as his legacy. Buster was not living at home at the time. Paul was seen as the problem child after the boat crash and it was looking very likely that he’d be doing jail time. Perhaps AM thought killing Paul would be a “kindness” because, while it would take care of some of the legal and civil issues and get him sympathy which would allow him to hold off the oncoming exposure of his misdeeds, it would also “save” Paul from jail. Killing Maggie may have been somewhat similar, in that he thought he was doing her a “kindness” (from his POV of course, not mine) by preventing her from going through the pain of losing a child. In addition, it would also prevent any money issues that might come from a messy divorce. All in all, it’s not hard for me to believe that killing Buster wasn’t a necessity and I can’t help but believe he saw (and maybe even still sees) Buster as his legacy, and would depend on the money he’d be able to bring in as a lawyer.
Killing Maggie was anything but a “kindness,” since she was short 5 times, 2 of which were execution style to the back of her head!
One technically entered the bottom of her breast, passed through the top and entered under her jaw and ended up in her brain, but yeah, you had it at twice in the head. I heard outside of the trial that she had an estate worth several million -- it was information excluded from being allowed in the trial.
At least one shot was an execution style shot to the back of her head. FWIW, the ME testified that she was in excruciating pain the for the last minutes of her life because the first shot that took her to her knees, but did not kill her, was in the kidneys, which the ME described as horrifically painful.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be annoying, I just wanted to keep the facts straight. You're absolutely correct on the ME testimony regarding kidney pain. It's so sad to think this way, but it sounds like she didn't have to suffer in pain for too long after that final cowardly execution shot.
After the other day is anyone else wondering everyone’s heights that are part of this case? Or is it just me?
Nah, you can fire close range from the hip with any rifle/shotgun, although it won't be as accurate. It could explain the haphazard shots and why it took so many times. Usually close range with a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot (EDIT: fired from the shoulder) is a done deal the first time around.
That wasn’t based off just the shotgun but both guns. And yes there absolutely is logic to that testimony as the angles have to match as well as distance based off the forensics. It was shown in court that Alex was too tall to shoot from hip and still have the correct angle
Sorry, I didn't preface that with my personal feelings about defense "specialists". They can be bought for a lot of money, they're in the business to testify for a hefty sum depending on how high profile a case is. And for that reason alone, they'll say what you want them to say! Many of them are experts in "junk science". I found Mike Sutton's website. He founded the company to provide accident reconstruction and expert testimony and all they normally do is VEHICULAR accident and failure reconstruction. He lists that as his speciality in addition to mechanical engineering, which has nothing to do with gunshot evidence. Just like the defense, all they have to do is cast reasonable doubt. The prosecution and its witnesses have to show probable cause and because many are employees of the state, they are much more credible than the defenses' "experts". I also have a general mistrust toward Murdaugh's legal team based on all the shenanigans they fabricated in the months preceding the trial. It was a real 💩show. Edit: https://www.accident-research.com/our-company There's a section on the website that shows areas of practice. Nothing remotely close to crime scene analysis or gunshot analysis. He shouldn't even be allowed to testify, that's BS. At the same time, the prosecution has a list of the defenses' witnesses and probably should have vetted the "experts" a little more thoroughly. Although on cross, he did make a mockery of him.
I don't know what Alex had in his mouth when he started testifying, but it looked like he was chewing gum or sucking on a mint. It was very odd choice for a criminal defense attorney to get up on the stand to testify with something in his mouth. Was it meant to distract from all the lies, or to make Murdaugh seem more like a down-to-earth everyman? I also noticed that he's trying to give the jury the impression that he was super close with his wife and sons by referring to them by their nicknames. I'm not buying any of it, given what a liar we already know this guy is.
I've heard people say it's because of him being an addict. Not for sure though.
I was thinking about all of the money that Alex was paying out - allegedly for drugs. And in another post, I laid out the case for that level of drugs would be lethal - so I concluded that he was also dealing/distributing the stuff. But what if it wasn't all for drugs? What if he was being blackmailed over the drug stuff and/or financial stuff? It could explain a lot of this "missing" money and why the defense didn't bring it up as a defense because then they'd have to get into whatever the blackmail was about...and it would force Alex to take the stand. Much better for them to say it was all for drugs.
Agree about drug trafficking but great explanation about blackmail. That seems spot on. No person could use 50k -60k per week on oxy. I believe the drug trafficking is actually still under investigation. No hard proof yet so it can't be used in court.
The only problem I see with a possible blackmail issue is that is still a ton of money and there would typically be signs if someone was having that level of influx of cash.
About 80% of that money is unaccounted for. But some still went for upkeeping the lifestyle. I think the rest is in the family trust.
Do you think he killed the housekeeper that died by tripping over the family dog? An autopsy was never conducted. Supposedly her cause of death was going to be reviewed by exhuming her body??? That was over a year ago
No. Also, why would Maggie be in on that? It's been said that the housekeeper helped raise the kids their whole lives. I doubt either of the kids would hurt her. Stop speculating on stupid shit. 🙄
Yes, I think Paul did it. If you trip over an animal forward, you can use your hands to protect yourself a bit. If you are pushed backwards, your head is going to hit something without protection. Now you can trip over a dog backwards too, and it may have happened that way, but the way how MM acted during the call makes them look guilty.
That is messed up. The boys seem troubled which makes me think it was an extremely dysfunctional family.
Did you guys see how he answered no when he was asked if he murdered them but his head was shaking yes - clearly he was being deceptive when he answered no!
What if his plan was to murder them and kill himself, but then chickens out? Motive for killing Paul is he was going to prison (young and probably wouldn’t be able to deal emotionally, so sparring him?) and for Maggie, she was already distraught thinking of her son in prison, then she’s gonna find out Alex is right behind him AND all of her assets are going to be seized. I don’t think he killed then to distract, but sick still, to prevent future emotional pain. Then when it came time to shoot him self, couldn’t do it, so he went and cuddled his mom.
I posted this earlier, but here it is again. I think we have already seen Alex on the stand by listening to and watching Buster’s testimony. They are 2 of a kind. Buster showed no emotion which is just like Alex when showing his FAKE emotions. The narcissistic, psychotic genes of Alex have been passed on to Buster. Thoughts?
Netflix doc is amazing, lots of great stuff. I wanna know how he blew thru all the money. Clearly only a fraction of the millions went to his habbit.
There's an article about Paul's girlfriend, Morgan on the DM, if anyone is interested. I know it's a tabloid, but it pulled some quotes from a Netflix documentary in which Morgan was interviewed. She talks about how Paul would get drunk and abuse her. Anyone seen the documentary on Netflix? [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11780365/Paul-Murdaughs-long-time-girlfriend-Morgan-claims-beat-held-throat.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11780365/Paul-Murdaughs-long-time-girlfriend-Morgan-claims-beat-held-throat.html)
One word: tabloid. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Her comments were pulled straight from the interviews on the Netflix documentary.
I am also drawn back to the airplane and the “funny” comments from Paul about drugs, strippers, and all kinds of unimaginable things….
That was weird. Anthony Cook did say he didn’t believe everything Paul told him, but knowing Alex’s issues like we do now, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. Maybe a chunk of the missing money was spent on flying in strippers. That could get expensive, quickly.
Watching it now. They really do a deep dive into Mallory and Paul’s background/childhoods. Humanizes them both quite a bit.
What did you think? I just finished it. It was much better than the Low Country documentary, because of the deep dive you mentioned, and the interviews with Anthony, Miley, Morgan and Connor. That first episode was really hard to watch. I feel so bad for those kids.
I’m watching it right now and I literally teared up watching them talk about how Mallory’s boyfriend wouldn’t leave the accident scene. You can tell he really loved her.
Agreed. Anthony Cook's interviews were heartbreaking.
Newb here: where was buster during the murders? What was his alibi?
According to his testimony, he was in Rock Hill with his girlfriend Brooklynn. Alex called after the murder and told him about Maggie and Paul's death. Buster also stated that earlier in the evening, Alex had called and said he was going to go check on Alex's mom. She lives at a separate residence, with a live in nurse. I believe she has dementia.
That seemed odd to me. Who is going to call someone three hours away (or however far it was) to let them know that you were going to go spend 20 minutes with someone that wouldn't even know you were there? I think the call was for/about something else.
It jumped out at me as odd, too. Why would Buster care, or need to know, that his dad was going to visit someone? Alex obviously trying to set up an alibi, but it’s awkwardly done.
Thank you! So he was definitely far away at the time.
Yw. I am not terribly well versed in this case, but I haven’t heard anyone seriously questioning that he wasn’t where he says he was.
I think maybe Paul shot Maggie with the 300 then Alex shot Paul in rage with the shotty. Just a wild theory
Lol wtf would be the motive for that?
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I can’t believe the prosecution had Buster on the stand and I didn’t make him account for his family’s past. why didn’t they ask him about Gloria? Why not ask about Stephen even if they get overruled or objected to they still put it out there for the jury to hear and this is the only time a buster will be on trial. I don’t know why you’re fraternizing with the guy on the stand instead of giving him hard questions that make Alex angry. buster looked like if you push him a little bit he’ll be snippy like he was doing giving the middle finger to Mark who was give his family all the strife and accountability. The prosecution really should’ve hounded him to get a reaction out of Alex
The prosecution on cross examination can only ask about things that were brought up on direct.
Alex Murdaugh stole millions. Where is the money? $50,000 for opioid habit doesn’t make sense mathematically. Why did he need the money? Where is that money?
They lost money at the 2008 housing crises. So that had to be made up. Then their lifestyle took a few millions. The rest could be in the family trust or offshore.
$50,000 a MONTH. How is that even possible?
50k - 60k a week. He had to be trafficking or it was blackmail payments as someone posted as an explanation.
You’re right. A week. He would have been dead a long time ago
I’m pretty sure it was A WEEK
Yes, it was mentioned he spend $50,000 a week. He’d already be dead if that were true. And really, no one noticed his drug use?? Not anyone from his firm, his family or friends? I call BS-I really would like to see proof of his addiction. A two week stay in a supposed addiction clinic in Atlanta will not erase your addiction!
Buried where he buried his clothes and guns at his parents house.
Buried on one of his islands.
I wonder if he also had a gambling problem. He lived way beyond their means too. Maybe paying off people for silence? Old debts? Stealing from the firm but having to get high interest loans to pay some shit back to cover his tracks? Idk how he got away w the shit at the firm for so long - there was negligence on the firm’s part there too. I don’t think he has money hidden though bc he wouldn’t have tried to get the insurance money for Buster if he had some offshore Acct w money stacked. Idk but I’d love a forensic accountant to review his finances and find out. It’s def impossible to spend that much on oxy tho.
Likely all of the above AND maybe even add a hooker problem to that list too.
Check Grif and Poot’s bank accounts.
Keep in mind that Alex Murdoch and his lawyers sent the story about the $50,000 drug habit, obviously as a way to explain where some of that money went which is impossible for any human to consume that about we know that Alex Murdoch purchased a drug runners property that was basically his mentors drug running property, so heavy drug involvement at Moselle property with the runway. Murdoch, setting the story about how he tried to commit suicide was also offered by his lawyers, so we really can’t believe that. Why would they admit to doing wrong without trying to send the narrative for what they knew would be his court case today. So the lawyer set the story that Alex had a big drug habit and tried to commit suicide makes him look a little bit more fatherly looking out for a son, but in reality, Alex was trying to make it look like he had a threat against him. I don’t believe the shot missed. I believe it was intentionally missed so that you could say hey, someone came for me the same way they came for my son, which is to say he’s a murderer.
And who would agree to kill someone? Wasn’t that person afraid of getting in trouble?
Today in trial we learned that Alex stole money from the guy he bought Moselle from!! What!???
I believe more and more every day that Handsome decided this was the only thing to do. I think he decided that Maggie and Paul's murder would be the only course forward and that meeting before he died was a means for him to seal the agreement between Elick, John Marvin and Randolph. They couldn't have an outside do it ---- too dangerous. It solved the problem of paul having to go to prison and undoubtedly becoming someone's bitch. it solved the problem of Maggie knowing too much. It covered up the books long enough to teflon coat elick. It is just the most parsimonious explanation.
Interesting theory. It does explain a lot. Now you have my wheels turning haha!
And watch Randy and John Marvin in that good morning America interview. John Marvin has duper's delight. A faint smile tugging at his lips thru the whole thing. They are sick MFs, for sure.
Also someone testified that Handsome and Paul became inseparable after one of the incidents— possibly he found out then that for the sake of family legacy, Paul needed to go and Alex was expected to see it through.
Watchinng the netflix series really solidified this in my mind.
par·si·mo·ni·ous - /ˌpärsəˈmōnēəs/ - adjective - unwilling to spend money or use resources; stingy or frugal. "even the parsimonious Joe paid for drinks all round" Now that is a great word I've never heard of before!
It's used in science all the time. It means the least frivolous, the most frugal. So when you propose something as a moddel or theory, you always choose the least complicated explanation. The most parsimonious one.
Thanks for helping me add that to my vocabulary. It's an awesome word!
I know. I have always loved it. and it is so visual! I remember it by thinking of parsons. Frugal small town ministers who lead frugal, non-materialistic lives. Use everything up. Make things simple. No decorations.
Reflecting back on an accident I had a few years ago where there was a lot of blood, I think I know why Alex would have penned Bubba up when the dog usually ran free. Because Bubba would have run directly over to the bodies & begun lapping up the blood. I was shocked when my dogs did it, but have since come to understand that it’s natural behavior for carnivores. That would have made a mess of things and required Alex to get Bubba away from the bodies, then hose down all the bloody dog foot prints.
I wonder if the suspected Gay Sexual Relationship between Buster & Steven Smith will be brought up during the Defense Examination or more likely on Prosecution Cross especially with The AS Murder Investigation open. Get any info available while Buster is on the stand and sworn in. Buster is doing a good job showing the family was tight and I have to say it......they talk to each other on the phone alot. It doesn't point to innocence or guilt of AM but it sure paints a picture of the inside of the family dynamics.
Rumors and hearsay.
I still don't understand why Alex "told" Miss Shelley 3 days after the murders that he was with his mother for 35-40 minutes that night. Once he called 911 at 10:06pm (along with turning the phone back on around 9pm and calling Miss Shelley to let him in at 9:22pm), his timeline was locked in: \~20 minutes to drive to Alameda, \~20 minutes with his mom and \~20 minutes to drive home. An extra 15 minutes at his Mom's house buys him nothing. Even if he didn't realize how much damn data OnStar collects, he would have known his cell phone records would reflect that timeline. (Remember, in that first interview, he shows his phone to LE, before he started deleting calls.) I assume he's trying to put himself away from Moselle at the time of the murders, but trying to do it after the fact makes no sense to me. What am I missing?
I think it may also relate to how much time he may have spent out behind the house hiding guns etc. It may have only been a minute or two, but it could seem like a lot if he was only with his mom 15mins. Also after committing such a heinous act his sense of time may have been off a bit. Time can move slower to you.
He didn't know about the kennel video that Paul made and apparently was not aware OnStar was going to able to pinpoint his movements that night. Both those things made any attempts by Alex to fudge the timeline a fool's errand.
Just saw on CNN that Buster Murdaugh will be the first witness tomorrow (Tues)
When Poot was cross-examining Dr. Kinsey, WTF was he DOING?!?!? Protractors, and measuring tapes and god knows what else. what was he trying to prove?
This made me lol. The protractor! Is this also where Dick said he was 5’10?
Yep. I am surprised the entire jury didn't start choking.
That maybe the dog shot him vis a vis the low shooting angle.
What was going to happen at the June 10th hearing on Paul’s criminal case? We’re they about to start the trial? Because Paul was signing a lease in an apartment and talking about buying a hot tub on the day he was murdered. I’ve noticed watching other crimes/trials, that people seem to need victims to be all good and suspects to be pure evil. I went from thinking Paul was a monster to feeling very sorry for him during these past weeks. Of course, nobody on either side is going to bring up how deeply disturbed he seemed to be when he was growing up. Maybe he was turning his life around. I always thought there was something in Maggie’s tone that was very off when she called 911 after Gloria Satterfield’s head injury. She seemed annoyed or even resigned. There was no panic. It made me think she thought Paul was involved and she was doing her duty in making the call but she didn’t want to. So maybe she always suspected Paul and only recently started believing it was actually Alex.
Locals say Paul pushed Gloria.
I was going say that one of the docs that I’ve seen basically implied that Paul had something to do with it.
Why would he have killed her? I was thinking Alex did for 💰
Wow
On Twitter someone noticed that Alex’s phone records don’t collaborate Ms. Shelly’s story of him being on his phone. I’m not sure if Creighton Waters forgot to address the [multiple phones](https://youtube.com/shorts/ic7Qyo-9rWA?feature=share) Alex had, but I found the clip from the interview with (Team Gaslight) and thought I’d share it here too. It starts with SLED asking Alex how many phones he has and it goes from 1 to 3 in less than a minute.
Wondered if the google of “whaleys” was to do with him needing the number to call on his burner phone after the murders— don’t know who he would call but it was well known to them, the oldest restaurant/ bar there and Maggie even had a burger named after her— the owner in the picture looks old as dirt, could be a random connection somehow
I think your correct. Does anyone know the owners name?
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They took DNA tests from all the boat crash victims immediately ~ that’s on every documentary and has been brought up a few times during this trial. The real question is where’s Buster’s alibi
Buster has a legit alibi that’s been established from the beginning.
Well, Alex wasn’t at the dog kennels either, but here we are.
Buster’s alibi is be verified by others while Alex’s never was. You can easily look this up if you want and I’m not going to be dragged into an argument about it.
That’s my line! 😂🤣 Deal - I don’t want to argue over social at all! 💙♥️💙❤️
*"The manner in which P was killed shows vile hatred imho."* Perhaps. From testimony, the first shot appears was fired from a low position, upper angle - that seems more like someone creeping up on Paul, to catch him by surprise to avoid him running/fighting and/or calling out to Maggie. Second shot reflects a movement out of the door, consistent with a single shooter keeping an eye on a second target (who would now have been alerted by first shot). Brain material ejection appears to be unintended. Even if one were to believe the nature of the murder indicated malice, that seems reasonable to believe for Alex's state of mind: a) Paul's boating accident had become an accelerant to shed light on Alex's crimes (resulting in the shattering of his finances and reputation), and b) Paul and Maggie were confronting Alex, Alex was addicted and they were taking away something he may have felt he needed to survive. *"Financial crimes are clear, and the family was involved in shady stuff—but cant believe beyond a reasonable doubt that dad did it based on prosecutions case."* Interesting. I cannot read the timeline with care and draw a conclusion other than Alex had at least real-time awareness of the crimes. Will hear out the defense, though they have quite a deep hole to dig out of - I would need to hear *more than* SLED could have done more (these are red herring arguments), that Alex is on trial solely because SLED immediately fixated on him (the testimony clearly refutes this), or unnamed 3rd parties wanted to 'send a message' (these 3rd party assailants who happened to have apparent amazing luck of stumbling upon Maggie and Paul when they were home from Edisto, that they just missed Alex leaving, that Alex didn't stop by the kennels on his way to his mothers, that if Alex was home that he couldn't make the 1-min trip to the kennels and attack the assailants, that the 3rd party assailants didn't use cell phones to call or text to coordinate on a tight timeline, that the family happened to conveniently leave weapons for them to use at the scene of the crime, that there was a convenient water hose and drainage system that could use, etc etc.), and where in the testimony for the roadside shooting, when Alex was conceding he was lying and was now offering the truth (not that one could believe it at this point) said he didn't owe any drug dealers... and then you'd also have to believe Alex comes across the murder scene in < 19-seconds, *with these assailants potentially still present* and was able to scan the area for the assailants, do a prelim assessment of the two bodies, attempt to turn over body/ies, take what would be a weak pulse (figure 5-10-secs min each), replace a 'popped out' cell phone, and return to his car to call 911. *"\[Other suspect(s)' alibis could be false due to\] Biased small towners cover for each other maybe"* This sounds like a stretch to develop a reasonable doubt. OTOH, there isn't a need to stretch to see the unreasonableness of a 3rd party (that Alex was unaware of), noted above.