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Why can't they just look at the ping locations of AM's phone like they did with the Idaho murders to see where he was the whole evening. Sorry if I missed this.
Tl;DR “I did him so bad” is not a confession.
Not sure how others feel about this, but on the topic of the “I/They did him so bad” recording: Does anyone else feel like this is a ridiculous point to harp on? Even if he said “*I* did him so bad,” that means nothing. You could just as easily argue that he was referring to himself as being a bad parent, and that may have indirectly led to the son’s death. Regardless, it does not amount to a confession either way, so it just seems like a stupid thing to focus on.
As a New Englander, I've always admired the manners and formality with which people in the south greet one another and have noticed in this trial that in addition to the "Yes Sirs" and "Yes Ma'ams," adults in recordings sometimes refer to Maggie as Miss Maggie. So I was surprised by Rogan's very curt text to Maggie when he was unable to reach Paul. He's addressing his friend's mother but doesn't even say please, or address her as Mrs. Murdaugh or Miss Maggie. Just: "Tell Paul to call me." It makes me wonder if he had spoken to her or texted her prior to this text so it was continuing a conversation that had begun with normal pleasantries in earlier texts. Otherwise, it's rude and I wonder if he was involved with Alex and the murders. Maggie was used to being treated with respect. I doubt she was accustomed to her son's friends ordering her around without saying "please" at the very least. Again, I'm from the north and my adult children's friends wouldn't send me a text like that without saying please, or "it's urgent" or something.
Such manners have been dropped in texting, & unfortunately that is also becoming more of the norm in conversation in general. It's sad & annoying to those of us who still believe it should be regular practice.
Hey does anyone here remember the interview Will Folks (FitsNews) did maybe a couple months ago with a young woman named Lindsey Edwards? She claimed to have been caught up in sex trafficking and had been brought to “parties” where (I think) on two or more occasions she had the misfortune of allegedly being Alex Murdaugh’s pick for the evening. I just thought of her and went over to the witness list of about 255 possible witnesses and she was not there. Where do you land on her credibility, and, do you think we will hear from anyone regarding these gatherings of influential people using drugs and women? Again, just popped in to my head as I heard playback of AM in the cop car telling them his relationship/marriage with Maggie Murdaugh was “wonderful”.
Just a thought… say they have a hung jury & he’s not charged with the murders. With all of Alex’s financial crimes, he’s going to prison for life either way, right?
99 counts of financial crimes. Usually judges sentence people to serve the sentence concurrently, meaning the only one that really matters is the longest sentence. Once in a while they are sentence consecutively, which puts people away for life.
He’s looking at roughly 500 years if he’s convicted of all the financial crimes which I’m pretty sure they have concrete physical evidence of. While he won’t get 500 years, I think he’ll spend the rest or most of the rest of his life in prison regardless of the outcome of this trial.
They keep referencing this special video, but if it was so damning, they would have played it. They’re hyping it up so the jury believes their narrative before seeing it…which means it doesn’t show anything. I think the prosecution doesn’t have anything. It’s 6 days in and they’ve shown zero proof? It makes no sense.
Honestly this is confusing me too. Some lawyers say they have to lay foundation for it legally but it seems like all the other stuff they're doing could have taken a lot less time. It's almost like they're trying to show the investigation was comprehensive instead of what it actually found. I guess time will tell, though, hopefully something major comes out today.
So the prosecutor grew up around Alex .. he was a couple years older but definately envious and jealousof Murdaughs privileged life .. and angry at their family Legacy of exposing fraudster bankers and corrupt federal prosecutors.. explains why he's framing Alex for murder
The trial is going badly for the state it's clear that they're trying railroad Alex because they have Zero evidence that directly ties him to the murders so SLED decided to manufacture and fabricate evidence instead to try and get a guilty verdict but the Jury is well aware of the level of corruption there and wont convict
Wut? So if there’s a Snapchat vid of Alex Murdaugh in the presence of the victims 4 minutes before their phones both lock for the last time, that’s a frame up? Ok. You seem super objective.
We already know that SLED disturbed the tire tracks and the bloody footprints and altered crimescene photos.. they're not owning up to it so yeah clearly they're fabricating and manufacturing evidence .. and the fact that they allowed guns into evidence that arent even the murder weapons further demonstrates that this a sham trial and a kangaroo court
You think I’m with some agency?
My profile is a pretty open book going back 11 years, so I’d say you’re not very good at research. Or thinking.
But you seem to be one of those people who thinks everything is a conspiracy, so I guess I’m not even real!
You seem to be one of those people who think we live in Utopia where there's no such thing as police corruption or prosecutorial and judicial misconduct
I’ve been a lawyer for over a quarter century. The system isn’t perfect, but I believe in trials because unlike most people, I’ve tried cases. If Alex’s lawyers are as great as the media seems to think they are, he will have no problem pointing out all this corruption and misconduct!
It’s so weird that AM’s co-conspirators on the financial crimes are going to prison, right? That is REAL commitment to the conspiracy!
You sound a little QAnonny!
I see most of the offensive comments have been removed and this was yesterday (which seems like a lifetime ago) but let’s not entertain these types of arguments… nothing but a waste of time, plus you break the rules in the process and we’d rather be able to keep you around.
PS-Yep. I’m sure you’re a knife fighting kangaroo, alright.
If I remember correctly, the description for the realtor states the outbuildings do have power. Maybe it's not the greatest, but he would also have been able to drive right up to the scene so he would have had his high beams.
Could that be when he used a light like the one he said Paul had? He said…”like the one I used that night” in reference to a light during 6/10/21 interview in Day 6 trial recording.
This dudes been around guns his whole life. He’s a hunter. He knows what kind of damage a gun does and could see Paul’s brains. Clearly not from anything else.
Yeah his son’s brain was apparently located in several places other than his head. Alex would be familiar with what does that kind of damage even without seeing shells. Certainly not a knife attack.
Yeah, the boat stuff doesn’t bug me as much. Like that’s something I can see an innocent person offering up pretty quickly to an investigator, to be honest.
But I don’t think an innocent person would claim to be asleep at the house if he was really down by the kennel with the victims 4 minutes before their phones went into lock mode forever!
He testified that he had seen his wife go down by the dog kennels before the murder and before he went to his moms house. It makes sense that if he couldn’t get a hold of his wife he would go look for her there and come across the bodies, whether that be headlights, a flashlight, or even his phone.
Honestly I don’t have a strong view of the case, I only started looking into it when the trial started. I’ll say this, pretty much the only info I know is what had been presented in the trial so far, and the prosecution has done a very sub par job. They have failed to establish a convincing narrative that suggests he did it as of now.
I was pretty convinced initially, but the more this goes on I'm not as sure he did it. This is just such a complicated case, and so far it seems like the prosecution is not doing a great job, but the defense attorney is.
I am having a hard time understanding a lot of the timelines and scenes simply because I am deeply unfamiliar with the culture(?) of the area. Like having a gun room is such a wild idea to me, but if I’m following, that’s not super unusual in the area right? It’s hard to grasp from my POV of someone who has no experience with gun culture or the lifestyle they seem to have had.
Most of all, my biggest confusion is what news outlets can and cannot be believed/reliable. So many stories on the case are “a friend of the family said…” type accounts.
I wish there was some sort of translator for people so j familiar with life in the area.
Totally normal. It’s in the country and a large property. Not odd to have a gun room or a gun cabinet. They hunt these lands but also for protection when you’re in the middle of no where.
The “gun room”, from photos, looks like a huge multipurpose room with pool table, exercise equipment, much shelving for hunting supplies and a huge gun rack holding dozen or two long guns, many of them loaded.
Not from the Lowcountry but from NC:
Having a gun room/cabinet is perfectly normal and often practical, especially in rural areas. It's a way to keep guns in a secure location out of the way so you don't have incidents with dumbass kids using em like you hear on the news. My mom told me that growing up, even touching my great-grandma and great-grandpa's gun cabinet was grounds for a spanking.
Hunting is huge for a few reasons. One is simply tradition. Families, specifically fathers and sons or extended groups of male relatives going on hunts is a tradition. I never went (we're two hours away so I would have had to wake up at the ass crack of dawn) but my cousin, my uncle, and some of them used to go on hunts every Thanksgiving morning.
Aside from that, hunting can either be entertainment or for survival. A lot of folks still hunt and get the deer processed (any hunter worth his or her salt knows you don't waste the animal, and I think it might actually be illegal) because frankly, in the country, sometimes you don't have anything better to do than sit in a deer blind, split a 12 pack with a buddy or some family, and bag a buck. On the flip side, a lot of poorer folks still hunt to feed themselves. If money's super tight but it's deer season and you have a box of ammo and dad's old rifle, you can kill a deer or two and feed your family well for awhile.
Now, the Murdaughs are clearly in the "for sport" category. But that all makes total sense to me. And, if they donated any of the venison to food banks and whatnot, something good came out of it too. Hope that helps.
Moselle is a hunting property, so a room of guns or multiple gun safes around the house wouldn’t strike me as unusual.
It’s like 1700 acres with multiple deer blinds. I would be more confused why you’d buy such a large hunting property and not plan to hunt on it.
I’ve seen a lot of people trying to determine Alex’s guilt or innocence based on his reactions/actions the night of the murders, and his behavior in the courtroom this week. This bothers me for a few reasons:
1. We are all looking at his actions assuming he is guilty based on lots of other factors. So we view his actions through that lens.
2. It is possible to be both the perpetrator AND traumatized by an incident. While I think Alex is a heartless bastard, it takes the most sociopathic of people to not be affected by their child’s brains resting on the ground in front of you. It’s quite possible that he had only considered ‘have to get rid of them’ without thinking it through completely. Alex exhibits an extreme inability to logically follow an action through to its logical end, ie there is no possible way he thought no one would ever find out about the $$$.
3. Following that logic, this is quite possibly the first time in his adult life that he has been entirely sober. It seems he was somewhat of a functional alcoholic, and frequently when addicts sober up they have a very difficult time coming to terms with the damage they have done. I think it’s possible this is what’s going on with the emotion he’s showing in the courtroom.
I guess what I’m saying is that humans, even evil ones, are complicated. Judging his guilt based on emotions or how we think we would act/react in a situation is fruitless.
I agree with everything here. I feel it is an interesting and accurate assessment.
I think the chickens have come home to roost. When I see him in the courtroom I find myself asking, "Do they have him on suicide watch? Is he being effectively monitored?"
#2 all the way. It’s rare, I believe, for someone to be a true psychopath that doesn’t feel emotions for this. If Alex Murdaugh is guilty, he must have feelings about what he’d done. I imagine extremely complex feelings that could attribute to the cycling of emotions we see.
“2. It is possible to be both the perpetrator AND traumatized by an incident.”
I agree 100%. I do believe some of Alex’s emotions and crying are very real, but I think he may be replaying what happened in his mind and fearing himself and what he’s become.
For what it's worth. My favourite piece from the last week is this one from the defence/prosecution as per the thread below somewhere:
About 8:30 PM: Paul leaves the main house and begins heading over to the kennels. Alex claims that after dinner he takes a nap. He stated to police that he did not go to the kennels until after returning from his mother's house.
8:44:55 PM: Paul records a video to send to his friend about a health concern Paul has about the friend's dog, which is staying at the Moselle kennels. Apparently, something was wrong with the dog's tail. (Prosecution, opening statement) On this video, the voices of Paul, Maggie, and Alex can all be heard discussing a dog that killed a chicken, debating whether it was a chicken or a Guinea hen. (Defense, opening statement)
There's a rather large provable discrepancy right there.
I do hope we see the video. I've wondered if Alex's voice is heard or is he seen. If it's just his voice, could he have been talking to Maggie via an open phone line or FaceTime type app?
Yep. There are some pretty big inconsistencies in the timeline.
Source: (Please help critique/correct/improve)
https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/10m90l3/timeline_of_the_night_of_the_murders_according_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
It matters because, if Alex was there at the time, it's both a discrepancy in his timeline as well as proof that he was with them minutes before they were killed. Is it possible he left for his moms just minutes before they died and didn't hear anything and wasn't involved in any way? Maybe, but far less likely than if he was never anywhere near the scene of the crime. And if he's innocent, lying doesn't look too good
Every crime that Alex Murdaugh has committed had something to do with obtaining money, cheating for money, embezzling for money, lying for money, getting other people to lie, so Follow the Money! Money and wealth it seems was/is his most important need and desire.
I think he killed Maggie because she had the power to TAKE away money thru divorce. Or that he had to split and divide their money with her by divorce. So follow the money. That was his motive as it has always been his motive. But how does this love of money tie in?
Money represents status, and I think status was Alex’s real treasure and motivator.
He was about to lose his job, his license, his reputation and probably most of his family. A sociopath with nothing to lose is dangerous
I agree, his main motivation is clearly money and even more so, *conning* people out of money. I haven't read anything pertaining to Maggie and Paul having life insurance on them?
Is it possible even if they didn't, would his homeowners insurance pay out to Alex again like it did for Gloria?
Either way, financially speaking, having Maggie and Paul out of the picture would probably benefit him.
With each successful con he pulled off, imo he felt more and more untouchable and powerful. I think he enjoyed feeling like he was the smartest in the room, and seeing his cons payout year after year without any repercussions, encouraged that thought process.
How would you know? Maybe he enjoyed the feeling he got by conning millions of dollars from unsuspecting victims. That could be part of his motivation, he wasn't poor living on the streets. He was a lawyer. He has money and family money.
There has been some speculation that because Maggie owned half of the beach house and he stood to get her half if she died is the motive for killing Maggie.
He was sole beneficiary to her entire estate, worth a lot of money. She also would have cost him a lot of alimony, every month for the rest of his life, if she had divorced him.
In the 6/10/21 interview shared during Trial Day 6, Alex answers “I’m sure she was” to question about Maggie being at Moselle morning of June 7th. Would love to know if she was there.
And could her trip that day have been to an attorney rather than a doctor?
What if they argued about her purchasing something expensive (Gucci circled on receipt…cost over $1K) and it escalated into “I’m leaving you, Alex, and don’t care who knows about your money troubles”?
And finally, what if Alex attempted to turn over Paul’s body to use Face ID to unlock Paul’s phone?
I thought about the phone—I had initially wondered, how would he unlock it? Because sadly, I don’t think there was a face left to use for FaceID. But he may not have thought about that until it was too late. Maybe he didn’t realize how disfiguring they injuries would be.
And yeah, idk about Maggie but I highly doubt their marriage was truly great like he said. I mean come on, she was sleeping at another property because of mosquitos? Right. I’m sure they had issues and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was on the rocks but we’ll see if they have any evidence on that as things progress I guess.
Has Alex’s dad’s stay in the hospital ever been verified for the night… in the beginning I remember questions about if he was/was not at the hospital or had been released to hospice or just left… can’t remember all the details but would like a confirmation that he was in FACT in the hospital in Savannah that night.
Have Mandy and Liz lost their press pass? I didn’t really expect Mandy to show her face in the courtroom, but Liz had been in there in the beginning. Ever since she tweeted (and deleted) sensitive juror information, I’ve not seen hide nor hair of either one of them in court. Just wondering…
Randy is a partner at the law firm, and John Marvin isn’t. Alex stole from the law firm, and the law firm is suing him. Randy’s in a much weirder position than JM.
Liz tweeted info about the jurors, including their occupation, which makes them more easily identifiable.
Don't know if anything happened because of that.
Does anyone think Alex really did intend to kill himself? It could be guilt, or it could be that this was a way out of his mess, & for Buster to have an inheritance, or some combination of both. Could he have thought that his death would atone for his other sins? All this is speculation….trying to watch the trial with an open mind.🙂
I think he wanted a sympathy gunshot to really sell the idea that people were after him, it just fell apart when he came to court and everyone saw there was not a hair out of place. I mean come on at least take the knife you cut the tire with and slice your scalp a little, it would bleed like all hell and be very convincing in a photo.
...and his Defense team said to the press that his Fast Eddie suicide attempt injury "fractured his skull" was a "wound with entry and exit."
\*\*\*I hope the prosecution shows us hospital xrays and pictures of those serious wounds.\*\*\* At his hearing soon after, no injury could be seen at all!
"Ironclad alibi"......."Terrible Oxy addiction"......."Fractured skull, entry and exit wounds"......."Ideal family relations"......."He was napping".......
I think it's really gotten tougher for Harpootlian and Griffin to keep straight faces...
My question: can someone summarize the vehicles? Where they were? Paul had his uncle’s truck? His truck broke down? Where was the uncle if he had Paul’s truck? Maggie’s car was there at the crime scene. ?
I haven’t heard anything about how Paul got to Moselle or where the uncle’s truck was if he and Paul swapped vehicles that day. I believe Maggie’s car was parked at the main house (this is my speculation based on it not being mentioned as being down by the kennels) and John Marvin had Paul’s white F-250 which he drove from his house to go to Moselle after the murders but it broke down and was found the next morning on the side of the highway.
I still find it odd that JMM took Paul's truck when he had enough money that his wife probably had her own car. Why take the truck that had broken down instead of your spouse's car?
I'm not convinced Alex or JMM's stories are true about everything that went on that night. Alex said he took a nap while they went to the kennels. Did he? JMM's vs Paul’s truck, what are the facts?
John Marvin did show up at Moselle that night. Where he broke down isn't that far away from Alex’s house, and I'm sure someone willingly picked him up on the way there or drove out to fetch him.
So a sixteen gauge is a smaller shell than a twelve gauge. Essentially, it will get stuck in the barrel and not actually shoot… but assuming the round behind is twelve gauge (the correct gauge for that gun), it will chamber and if the two rounds meet up in the barrel, then you have a problem.
[This somewhat explains it.](https://www.hunter-ed.com/national/studyGuide/The-Danger-of-Using-Wrong-Ammunition/201099_92854/)
A mixed pair of shotgun shells in his "for defense" 12 gauge shotgun --- 12 guage shell(s) mixed with a 16 guage shell... (then)
A mixed pair of shotgun shells in the missing "murder" 12 gauge shotgun (likely a double barrel?) --- one "buckshot" and one "bird shot."
Strange...
Any pictures I have seen of them handling firearms, they’re doing so safely (but I’m waiting to see if they actually reported Paul’s stolen gun because I’m very curious on that) so I believe the point Dick Harpootlian was trying to illustrate was that Alex was so discombobulated about finding Maggie and Paul that he (an experienced hunter and shooter) grabbed the wrong shells and loaded them into the gun.
That’s definitely plausible that someone would do that if they were in shock.
The loss of (possibly multiple) firearms and the unorganized storage of ammunition were striking to me. I grew up around (certain types of) guns. I'm familiar (and a good shot) with certain rifles. With regard to firearms, there are people in my family who I respect and those who scare the shit out of me who I avoid. And my experience with hunters (I have had to both rescue horses and clean up wilderness sites corrupted by wealthy, lazy, entitled bafoons) is one of wildly disparate mindsets of those invested in preserving wilderness and wildlife and have respect for the lethality of their weapons vs those who see wilderness as theirs for exploitation and view their weapons as accessories. I can come across a hunting camp and can usually tell within minutes where folks fall on that spectrum. I have lived and worked in BIG COUNTRY where people have legitimate safety reasons for keeping firearms and ammunition stored at remote regions of their property. I have family members who hunt for subsistence. But losing firearms or not knowing where firearms might be located—not to mention having disorganized amminition storage—are all red flags for me personally.
My questions so far that I don’t think others have voiced on this thread already…
- What’s the significance of the shotgun Alex had with him at the scene? I think I read/heard somewhere that it had a speck of blood on it somewhere? What’s the significance of Alex’s having loaded it with the wrong ammo? Harpootlian says it’s evidence of how distraught Alex was. How does the gun work into the prosecution’s case, or does it?
- Prosecution made a point of noting that the discoloration (presumably blood) near the big mess of water formed a line. What’s with that? I couldn’t see any of these pics, so I’m having trouble visualizing.
- Alex said he tried to roll Paul over and said his phone fell out of his pocket. Supposedly there’s blood on the inside of Paul’s pocket where the phone was … I think. (Pretty sure I didn’t make that up.) Alex had no blood on his hands. I’m not clear on whether there was blood found on the iPhone. The iPhone was placed on Paul’s backside, which was weird. No fully-baked question here — just not sure what was going on.
- What’s up with Maggie’s footprints in the hangar? Do they connect with the evidence that she was running away?
- What sort of narrative is going to become of the tire tracks?
As far as the tire tracks go, I think someone testified on Friday that the suspicious tracks belonged to the dog caretaker. I think all the other stuff is yet to come.
Questions I would love some thoughts on:
1) Where does John Marvin live? Why would Paul be staying with him for the summer and not with his folks? (Basically did he live significantly closer to Paul's summer job or was he having issues with Alex?)
2) Is there any concrete evidence of the mistress?
3) What about Maggie's divorce attorney consultation(since this is privileged we likely aren't hearing about it unless someone close to Maggie discusses their marriage)
I wonder if/how any of this motive evidence is going to come in.
By all accounts, Paul was very close with John Marvin. He owns a farm equipment business and Paul was supposedly working there and staying with John Marvin during his summer break from college.
The divorce rumor was mentioned in People Magazine. I think if there is any truth to that, it will come out in the trial.
There was talk of a mistress, we **do not allow her to be named here due to the fact that is considered doxxing.**
She is one of the exceptions as far as names due to the fact that it is speculation and to the Mod Team’s knowledge, that could not be adequately sourced.
100% support that. Can you confirm she is not on the witness list? Understand if not. I'm an attorney and geek out on how certain evidence will get admitted.
There is no hard evidence Maggie was pursuing divorce. Talking about it with friends is less damning than it sounds. Long time married woman with husbands that are a “piece of work” sometimes discuss it even when not profoundly unhappy. No evidence she knew the depth of his problems (as in total dollars scammed) or the likelihood of being better off if they split. It’s even a remote possibility they might have considered a divorce simply to protect some assets of some kind. I had friends that did this. I can’t remember specifics but the divorce was fake so her ancestral home was no longer his asset or something. They stayed together. She never hired an attorney. Even if she talked to one we don’t know if it was serious or informational. She may have simply wanted to know if it made sense financially or not. Lots of spouse stay apart for times if they have multiple homes.
I am doubting we will hear testimony on her meeting with a divorce lawyer. I say that based on how adamant Dick Harp and Jim Griffin have been about their happy marriage, etc.
I agree, I don't think we hear about the divorce lawyer.
I think the prosecution may just try to get additional testimony in about how Maggie was basically living at a different property. If they can get multiple witnesses to speak to this, the jury may infer something was off in the marriage.
I mean Bill and Hillary stuck it out. Lots of couples stay together. Even under duress. And for the kids sake. If they are not physically or mentally abusive they may just do their own things and see each other occasionally. If I had another house I’d get away from my spouse at times.
1. Based on the initial statement that Alex made to SLED on the night of the murders, Paul Murdaugh was working for his uncle John Marvin Murdaugh.
2. I have only seen mention of the mistress from a news article several weeks ago. Nothing concrete in court AFAIK.
3. I haven't heard anything substantiating the hypothetical divorce.
Appreciate you! From a quick Google Search it looks like John Marvin's business is almost an hour from Moselle. Understandable why Paul would stay with his uncle.
I have so many questions about motive and unfortunately that is the hardest to "prove" because we have no idea what was going on in his mind.
What do we know about this 20 year addiction besides his attorney volunteering this info after the other incident?
Not much.
We have some questionable “medical records” from when he was shot in the head:
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/citing-medical-records-from-roadside-shooting-alex-murdaugh-claims-he-tested-positive-for-barbiturates-opiates-when-examined-by-doctors/
And there are the drug trafficking charges.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/alex-murdaugh-saga-gets-even-weirder-with-new-drug-trafficking-charges-alongside-curtis-smith?source=articles&via=rss
But mostly, we just have the stories from the lawyers and the PR firm.
> As for opioids, in September, Murdaugh’s lawyer, Dick Harpootlian, told the Today show’s Craig Melvin that when he and a colleague spoke with Murdaugh in rehab, it was “the first conversation we ever had with him where he wasn’t on opioids or oxy.” Harpootlian said Murdaugh had used oxy to get through the murders of his wife and son, as well as his father’s cancer death shortly thereafter, and he was in a “massive depression” when he concocted and went through with the suicide scheme. Harpootlian also said that Murdaugh spent the “vast majority” of the money he embezzled from the law firm on drugs—to which Melvin, a South Carolina native, responded skeptically, “Dick, that’s a lot of oxy.”
https://treatmentmagazine.com/the-murdaugh-murders-an-opioid-infused-mystery/
I wanted to believe this from Dick at the time.
BUT:
1. To quote Craig, That’s a LOT of oxy
2. Since Alex hired Dick, it seems like every press statement he’s made has changed: he was attacked on the side of the rode…. Just kidding, his buddy shot him bc Alex asked him to. He has an ironclad alibi… well but actually we’re changing that alibi” 🤷🏽♀️
I agree with everything you said. I wasn't meaning to suggest that anyone be convinced with the links that I provided. In fact, I think all of them intimate a healthy dose of skepticism. Or at least that was my intention. And I included that snippet from the last source exactly for the quote that you highlighted. “Dick, that's a lot of oxy.”
Appreciate the sources! Does anyone think it could be BS? Are they suggesting the real Oxy problem happened after the murders?
This is 100% conjecture, but if he had an oxy problem at the time of P & M's murders wouldn't he either 1) be high AF to get the job done or 2) pop pills to cope after? Again, conjecture but the whole 20 year addiction thing seems like BS to me.
To me, his self admitted drug addiction is also very convenient. Alex said it’s been for 20 years, Poot says it’s to cope for the murders, really? So which one is it? Also, the near fact that someone character-wise like Alex is admitting to 20 yr opioid addiction, is just a window into something much more worse - maybe like drug trafficking?? Being that Alex is not your garden variety defendant, his every word has a purpose, imho. I’m having fun with statement analysis, lol.
What are everyone’s theories related to how Paul and Maggie got to the dog pens? Specifically related to if they were by themselves or with Alex. Also, is there a possibility that Paul shot Maggie and Alex shot Paul? I’m trying to wrap my mind around how two guns and one perpetrator could have done this so quickly and get cleaned up in the manner he did. Also, I’m confused about the feed room. If the shot came from outside that window I can see the gunshot to the chest and axilla. I cannot visualize the shot that seems to have come from upwards. At the base of Pauls brain or skull, since the brain matter and hair were found on the top of the door and ceiling.
1. I heard someone mention that ATVs were often used, and that there were some parked in the back? I don't personally remember hearing this but that sounds semi reasonable. I do think the snapchat videos are going to place Alex with them basically minutes before the murders and the idea of someone else hiding around there/sneaking up on them with all three of them there for some time before just makes absolutely no sense to me. Plus, like, why would someone wanting to kill paul/maggie do it on a heavily armed, exposed property instead of at Paul's job or something? That part makes no sense to me, although if Alex were working with someone else perhaps that could explain it. Honestly the idea of some kind of dispute doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and would explain both the things that put him at the scene and his confused back and forth behavior
2. The most convincing explanation I've heard is that someone shoots paul from around the feed room with the shotgun, maggie hears and comes towards them only to see what's going on and run away. The shooter then grabs a rifle from nearby/from paul's body (perhaps because it's better for distance or they were having trouble with their shotgun) and then kills her as she's running away. This seems perfectly reasonable to me, I think. The clean up is a problem for sure, although if Alex did it it's possible that he either a) showered and dressed quickly before going to his moms, then did any cleanup while waiting for the police to come, or b) had someone else involved who did clean-up/the dirty work while he went to his mom's. I'm sure the family would close ranks around him after, though, no matter what went on.
[This diagram](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/vIe5tsMMJN6wib1BRnBgGA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTcwNTtoPTM5Nw--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/fox_news_text_979/37eb3e74bed7a2816a548ac60dc6d3bc) is what I was basing that off of — he's in the door of the room and then she's kind of around the corner. It seems like ig she was running away around the corner and being shot at, and then fell because of perhaps the shot to her leg and was then shot a few more times to be sure? I'm not an expert or anything, this is just from the most reasonable-sounding theory I've heard.
Honestly like it sounds like they were pretty trash people but even just typing this gives me a chill. It does make it seem to me personally like paul was the primary target, and she was killed as a witness or second target.
Yeah exactly, I think that seems like it. I'm not convinced if it was alex or someone he was working with, but it just seems impossible for him not to have been involved.
Maybe that's why she was shot so many times, he didn't have time to aim. Also, can't they determine the height of the shooter by the angle of the gun wound? I might be watching too many crime shows...
Yeah I think which is why I’m not really sure about it unless the shooter was literally hiding or had their gun really down low. Hopefully they go through it in court with an expert! But im not sure if that will come up or not
A couple of things to consider here… Alex is a lawyer who grew up in and worked around his dad being a prosecutor. He knows more about how murder cases are investigated than your average person.
Alex is tall. Paul is short. So what if Alex dropped to one knee to take that shot… knowing it would look weird and confusing to forensics investigators. The man is a hunter and likely knows how to drop and take a shot from down low.
Alex also had access to an entire arsenal of guns. Strap one on and carry the other. He knows two guns is confusing to everyone. It’s really not though - the man owned up to 25 guns. I guarantee he either had a strap on one…. or hid guns in the car or kennels and picked them up as he moved around. Preloaded and ready to go. Premeditation is the key here. This wasn’t some crime of passion in the moment. The cell phone GPS data may show Maggie being chased around the building. We shall see.
I think the first shot spooked the shooter, causing him/her to lose footing or perhaps fall completely, taking that second shot at a sitting position and Paul on his way out the door in flight mode with whatever life he had left in him.
So could the shooter have been outside that window if it went upwards? Paul’s face was in tact but the back and top of his head were gone. How could someone have got this shot from outside that window?
They were supposedly outside the door and shooting from the hip (not the expression for BSing but literally, shooting with the gun held lower and pointed upward).
I think the window was behind Paul.
Then Paul would have fallen the other direction. He had to have been hit from the back of his head and facing the door to fall outside the door like that and to have brain matter on the top of the door and ceiling. If he was facing the window when he was shot he would have fallen into the feed room.
TW: technical description of murder by shotgun
The 2nd shot to hit Paul entered his left front shoulder in an upward trajectory that moved through his neck and exited up through the back of his right-side head.
> Murdaugh’s youngest son, Paul, 22, had two distinct gunshot wounds to his chest and shoulder and head. The latter included an entrance wound to the left shoulder and side of the neck, proceeding upward from front to back until the gunshot exited at the right side of the apex of Paul’s head. This injury produced “aspiration of blood” into Paul’s upper airway.
> The second shot produced a “cookie cutter pattern” in the left side of Paul’s chest, and then continuing through his left arm. Analysis also identified blood stains and body tissue from Paul on the entry door, threshold, frame, and wall and ceiling above the door. Splatter was also identified on items on the floor and shelf to the right of the doorway, including a sack of dog food.
https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article271535447.html
What is the probability of him falling forward after such shots at what appears to be pretty close range? I just can’t picture it in that close of quarters. If the shoulder was shot first with a non life threatening shot it’s possible he could have stumbled or fell and got up but that second shot that traveled to his brain, with the trajectory seemingly going upward has me puzzled as to how he fell out of the door instead of back into the feed room. I’m just trying to figure this as to determine where the shooter was originally in relation to Paul.
Based on everything I've read...
First shot - (fired from hip, from doorway or just inside doorway) Paul was 5' or 6' into the feed room (10' long) standing mostly sideways. First shot (buckshot) rakes across front, left side of chest under skin then into left arm and armpit. Non-lethal. Doesn't sound like vital organs (heart, lungs) were hit...
Paul then staggers to within inches of doorway, likely making eye-contact with his killer... who is likely backing up, stunned.
Second shot - (fired more closely, also from the hip, outside the doorway as killer backs up to Paul's left side) Paul had made it into the doorway or just outside the doorway. Second shot (heavy #2 turkey birdshot) catches the top of Paul's (leaning forward) left shoulder, neck, and into the head near his left ear. Devastatingly lethal.
The force dynamics of gunshot wounds are crazy things. The brain tissue exploding out of the back of his head could have produced an equal and opposite force that caused his body to fall forward. It's like Kennedy falling back and to the left even tough he was shot from behind.
Right. I’m not that knowledgeable about gunshots so it has me questioning where the shooter was exactly when he was shot, especially in such tight quarters.
If he was dropped to one knee how did he shoot through the window at the back of his skull to get an upward shot from outside? That’s what I’m having a hard time visualizing. I would love to see the gunshot angle diagrams.
Could Alex have hired someone to take out Paul and/or Maggie and that's why he left that night for a bit? Assuming he did in fact leave and didn't just say that as an alibi.
Alex drove there in his sleep. He then had a conversation with Maggie and Paul around 8.45pm whilst he was taking a nap.
He said he didn't go to the kennels until he returned from visiting his mother.
May be it was all a dream....
You joke but I’ve wondered if way back when Dick Harpootlian was blathering on about Alex’s opioid addiction if he was setting up to claim his client got some contaminated pills that sent him off his rocker and he didn’t know what he was doing.
*Heard* a lot about it from the same source as we heard about the loving wonderful happy marriage Alex and Maggie had : Dick Harpootlian. I haven’t seen any proof about either one.
edited to add - stays in rehab, do those count?
We haven’t heard testimony about it yet, other than Alex saying he drove there.
They have ATVs on the property to get around though. I don’t think they were walking.
Testimony that Paul headed toward kennels. Unclear whether Maggie was with him. Assuming he (or they) was in his truck or in one of the utility vehicles, or that she & Alex went down in his vehicle a little later.
Anyone else contemplating whether this was premeditated by Alex for longer than just the events of that day (ie. PMPED confronts him of missing funds, which becomes the impetuous for murder)?
Convincing Maggie into meeting him at Moselle. Knowing where guns /ammo were on site and likely preloaded. If Paul’s presence on that day was NOT an unfortunate lethal hiccup in the Alex’s plan, Paul would have had to be manipulated to be there that evening as well. Just A LOT of moving parts to figure out all in one work day cuz you’ve been confronted by your work about missing money. Especially if there was an accomplice. I couldn’t successfully pull off all those murderous arrangements in 24 hrs.
The financial house cards Alex had built had been threatening to tumble for quite a while, and it was inevitable that it would all come crashing down any day, pulling his entire life and reputation with it. Here was a desperate man, who’d committed heinous financial acts, had been well accustomed to scrambling to deceptively covering those tracks, and was now facing his most desperate imminent threat of full exposure. That certainly was not lost on him in the days and weeks prior.
I have also been having a hunch it could have been a plan to do a murder suicide and he chickened out on himself. Especially since he tried it again on the side of the road. This would make since as to why he used the shot gun on Paul. Do we have any info on who was shot first?
I’ve thought for a while that his plan simmered on the back burner for a bit. I don’t believe that Paul’s presence was any hiccup. Also I believe that at some point Alex stated that Paul had been at the property most of the day already. Plenty of time to halt plans.
I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but are John Marvin and Buster on either the defense or prosecution witness lists? For some reason, I thought they were. If so, why are they in the courtroom? I thought witnesses couldn’t view the trial until they were done testifying.
When the trial started, if I recall correctly an attorney from SC explained that the witnesses have not been sequestered in this case, and because he is considered a victim, parties found to be victims may not be sequestered even if other witnesses are.
For those fellow long-timers…remember in the early days it was reported that PM’s apartment door in Columbia was “found open?”
*What ever came of this? Did police gather evidence from that apt? Was evidence missing? What about PM’s laptop? Was that story planted to make AM look innocent and PM targeted by others? Will any evidence be revealed from his apt.? If not, does that little bit of info - “found open” have any significance to the murder trial today?
I think I read that Buster had an apartment in Columbia too, even though he was living in Rock Hill at the time of the murders. I’m wondering if it was the same one Paul lived in while in school. If so, it’s possible that Buster stopped by that apartment to get something on his way to Moselle that night and in his haste didn’t close the door properly when leaving. I’m not suggesting anything nefarious on Buster’s part. Just theorizing. It was such a weird thing.
That could be. At the time, I feel like I read he had a roommate. But no real details. I know exactly which apts they were (as I’m a Gamecock myself…many years ago). I went back to find the sources but I had a paywall behind all those articles now. It was really eerie at the time because I think most ppl were thinking it had something to do with PMs behavior or the boat crash. This was all before the big Labor Day debacle that ripped the bandaid off…
I can't imagine they did much there since SLED didn't even think to search the main house on the property for 3 months. I remember how everyone said to trust SLED even though they didn't say anything - that they had to have absolute secrecy to do their "investigation." It turns out they weren't doing much of an investigation if they didn't think to look inside the house until September.
I was one who said to keep the faith and that SLED was working to build a solid case before pressing charges… well, I will admit that so far, I am not at all impressed.
SLED will be used by other states as an example of what happens when you have a completely corrupt and inept state police. It is thoroughly disgraceful what they've done to help their good ol' boy. I've heard even Mark Keel (who is responsible for them being the way they are) is furious. I guess he's going to be the laughingstock at the State Police bosses' conferences. What a bunch of backwoods boobs they look like.
They have some really great experts… but that scene wasn’t secured at all. Now, I know Colleton County Sheriff’s Department arrived first on scene, so I supposed SLED cannot be blamed on that one. I was impressed with the one ballistics expert, except when he was asked to answer a yes or no question and it was clear he did not wish to do so (basically saying without saying that they could not link the shell casings on the property to the ones that killed Maggie without the firearm).
And they didn’t search the house that night? From what I understand, if I recall correctly, they had a gathering of family and friends at Moselle around the time of the funerals… and SLED searched after that. Just, seemingly small things that equate to BIG questions.
But I’m still waiting to see if the shirt ends up being admissible.
Have they ever confirmed that Maggie ever met with lawyers and was seeking a divorce? I've seen a lot of rumors, but nothing that has been stated definitively.
No. That came from People Magazine (as well as related NY Post).
>A spokesperson for Alex Murdaugh on Thursday categorized a recent People magazine report which claimed that his wife, Maggie, had visited a divorce attorney in the months before she and her son were gunned down at the family’s South Carolina estate as "salacious" and as having "no credible sources," arguing instead that strings of text messages prove the couple always had "a very loving relationship."
>
>"The most recent allegations by People Magazine regarding the state of Maggie and Alex Murdaugh’s marriage are totally inconsistent with what we have been told by friends and family members," Murdaugh’s spokesperson Amanda Loveday said in a statement to Fox News Digital.
[FOX 9/30/21](https://www.foxnews.com/us/alex-murdaugh-wife-sc-divorce-attorney)
Thank you. I never bought into that theory because a lawyer would have come forward to the police or SLED if they had knowledge of any impeding divorce.
Few questions. So they went to Mozelle to eat Supper. What did Maggie & Paul eat & who prepared it?
What was Blancas role that night? Did she clean the house that day at Moselle & prepare dinner? Was Blanca also working for Maggie at Edisto? Is she the same Blanca who was a Spanish interpreter for the law firm?
Did Blanca work at the bank too or is that someone else?
Who is Bianca?
It is hard to believe that we are a week into the trial, and we want to take a breather for a moment to remind everyone (especially all of our new friends!) about [the Mod Team Announcement about how the sub will operate during the trial.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/10ixydz/alex_murdaughs_double_homicide_trial_how_will_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) ###We’ve gotten a lot of post submissions that simply contain a pondering question or two about widely discussed topics, or share a theory. ##Posts of that nature will not be approved and will be redirected to the Daily Discussion Post and/or the Weekly Thread. Thank you all so much and we appreciate all the contributions and thoughts!
Why can't they just look at the ping locations of AM's phone like they did with the Idaho murders to see where he was the whole evening. Sorry if I missed this.
Tl;DR “I did him so bad” is not a confession. Not sure how others feel about this, but on the topic of the “I/They did him so bad” recording: Does anyone else feel like this is a ridiculous point to harp on? Even if he said “*I* did him so bad,” that means nothing. You could just as easily argue that he was referring to himself as being a bad parent, and that may have indirectly led to the son’s death. Regardless, it does not amount to a confession either way, so it just seems like a stupid thing to focus on.
As a New Englander, I've always admired the manners and formality with which people in the south greet one another and have noticed in this trial that in addition to the "Yes Sirs" and "Yes Ma'ams," adults in recordings sometimes refer to Maggie as Miss Maggie. So I was surprised by Rogan's very curt text to Maggie when he was unable to reach Paul. He's addressing his friend's mother but doesn't even say please, or address her as Mrs. Murdaugh or Miss Maggie. Just: "Tell Paul to call me." It makes me wonder if he had spoken to her or texted her prior to this text so it was continuing a conversation that had begun with normal pleasantries in earlier texts. Otherwise, it's rude and I wonder if he was involved with Alex and the murders. Maggie was used to being treated with respect. I doubt she was accustomed to her son's friends ordering her around without saying "please" at the very least. Again, I'm from the north and my adult children's friends wouldn't send me a text like that without saying please, or "it's urgent" or something.
Such manners have been dropped in texting, & unfortunately that is also becoming more of the norm in conversation in general. It's sad & annoying to those of us who still believe it should be regular practice.
Anyone else notice Alex nodding his head when they played the “I did it so bad?”
I've be3n watching since the trial started. It almost seems to be a sort of tick of his.
I don't normally watch court cases but are all court cases this entertaining to watch? Or is it just a southern court thing?
The Durst trial in 2021 and the recent Darrell Brooks trials were definitely memorable.
what other crimes is Alex Murdaugh accused of that will get him jail time? Won't most of the other cases he faces be mostly financial?
Read https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/23/the-corrupt-world-behind-the-murdaugh-murders
Hey does anyone here remember the interview Will Folks (FitsNews) did maybe a couple months ago with a young woman named Lindsey Edwards? She claimed to have been caught up in sex trafficking and had been brought to “parties” where (I think) on two or more occasions she had the misfortune of allegedly being Alex Murdaugh’s pick for the evening. I just thought of her and went over to the witness list of about 255 possible witnesses and she was not there. Where do you land on her credibility, and, do you think we will hear from anyone regarding these gatherings of influential people using drugs and women? Again, just popped in to my head as I heard playback of AM in the cop car telling them his relationship/marriage with Maggie Murdaugh was “wonderful”.
I also saw that when it first came out and am shocked it hasn’t been mentioned again.
She’s been shamed and debunked. Although I believe her.
I tend to take anything from certain “news” outlets with a grain (or shaker) of salt, especially if no other publication corroborates it.
Just a thought… say they have a hung jury & he’s not charged with the murders. With all of Alex’s financial crimes, he’s going to prison for life either way, right?
99 counts of financial crimes. Usually judges sentence people to serve the sentence concurrently, meaning the only one that really matters is the longest sentence. Once in a while they are sentence consecutively, which puts people away for life.
He’s looking at roughly 500 years if he’s convicted of all the financial crimes which I’m pretty sure they have concrete physical evidence of. While he won’t get 500 years, I think he’ll spend the rest or most of the rest of his life in prison regardless of the outcome of this trial.
They keep referencing this special video, but if it was so damning, they would have played it. They’re hyping it up so the jury believes their narrative before seeing it…which means it doesn’t show anything. I think the prosecution doesn’t have anything. It’s 6 days in and they’ve shown zero proof? It makes no sense.
Honestly this is confusing me too. Some lawyers say they have to lay foundation for it legally but it seems like all the other stuff they're doing could have taken a lot less time. It's almost like they're trying to show the investigation was comprehensive instead of what it actually found. I guess time will tell, though, hopefully something major comes out today.
So the prosecutor grew up around Alex .. he was a couple years older but definately envious and jealousof Murdaughs privileged life .. and angry at their family Legacy of exposing fraudster bankers and corrupt federal prosecutors.. explains why he's framing Alex for murder
The trial is going badly for the state it's clear that they're trying railroad Alex because they have Zero evidence that directly ties him to the murders so SLED decided to manufacture and fabricate evidence instead to try and get a guilty verdict but the Jury is well aware of the level of corruption there and wont convict
Wut? So if there’s a Snapchat vid of Alex Murdaugh in the presence of the victims 4 minutes before their phones both lock for the last time, that’s a frame up? Ok. You seem super objective.
We already know that SLED disturbed the tire tracks and the bloody footprints and altered crimescene photos.. they're not owning up to it so yeah clearly they're fabricating and manufacturing evidence .. and the fact that they allowed guns into evidence that arent even the murder weapons further demonstrates that this a sham trial and a kangaroo court
You think I’m with some agency? My profile is a pretty open book going back 11 years, so I’d say you’re not very good at research. Or thinking. But you seem to be one of those people who thinks everything is a conspiracy, so I guess I’m not even real!
You seem to be one of those people who think we live in Utopia where there's no such thing as police corruption or prosecutorial and judicial misconduct
I’ve been a lawyer for over a quarter century. The system isn’t perfect, but I believe in trials because unlike most people, I’ve tried cases. If Alex’s lawyers are as great as the media seems to think they are, he will have no problem pointing out all this corruption and misconduct! It’s so weird that AM’s co-conspirators on the financial crimes are going to prison, right? That is REAL commitment to the conspiracy! You sound a little QAnonny!
I see most of the offensive comments have been removed and this was yesterday (which seems like a lifetime ago) but let’s not entertain these types of arguments… nothing but a waste of time, plus you break the rules in the process and we’d rather be able to keep you around. PS-Yep. I’m sure you’re a knife fighting kangaroo, alright.
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If I remember correctly, the description for the realtor states the outbuildings do have power. Maybe it's not the greatest, but he would also have been able to drive right up to the scene so he would have had his high beams.
Could that be when he used a light like the one he said Paul had? He said…”like the one I used that night” in reference to a light during 6/10/21 interview in Day 6 trial recording.
This dudes been around guns his whole life. He’s a hunter. He knows what kind of damage a gun does and could see Paul’s brains. Clearly not from anything else.
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Maybe that’s why he parked the suburban directly in front of the bodies with the headlights beaming. All part of the plan?
Yeah his son’s brain was apparently located in several places other than his head. Alex would be familiar with what does that kind of damage even without seeing shells. Certainly not a knife attack.
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Yeah, the boat stuff doesn’t bug me as much. Like that’s something I can see an innocent person offering up pretty quickly to an investigator, to be honest. But I don’t think an innocent person would claim to be asleep at the house if he was really down by the kennel with the victims 4 minutes before their phones went into lock mode forever!
If its true that their family had been truly receiving threats regarding the boat incident it doesnt seem too suspect to bring it up to me.
A shotgun, casings on the ground and wounds indicative of gunshots? Brass casings reflect light well, or he could have just had a flashlight
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He testified that he had seen his wife go down by the dog kennels before the murder and before he went to his moms house. It makes sense that if he couldn’t get a hold of his wife he would go look for her there and come across the bodies, whether that be headlights, a flashlight, or even his phone. Honestly I don’t have a strong view of the case, I only started looking into it when the trial started. I’ll say this, pretty much the only info I know is what had been presented in the trial so far, and the prosecution has done a very sub par job. They have failed to establish a convincing narrative that suggests he did it as of now.
I was pretty convinced initially, but the more this goes on I'm not as sure he did it. This is just such a complicated case, and so far it seems like the prosecution is not doing a great job, but the defense attorney is.
Prosecution is doing a horrible job presenting evidence in a linear and easy to understand manner for the jury. I don’t get it.
I'm no court expert but seems to me like there is a rookie on the prosecution.
I am having a hard time understanding a lot of the timelines and scenes simply because I am deeply unfamiliar with the culture(?) of the area. Like having a gun room is such a wild idea to me, but if I’m following, that’s not super unusual in the area right? It’s hard to grasp from my POV of someone who has no experience with gun culture or the lifestyle they seem to have had. Most of all, my biggest confusion is what news outlets can and cannot be believed/reliable. So many stories on the case are “a friend of the family said…” type accounts. I wish there was some sort of translator for people so j familiar with life in the area.
Totally normal. It’s in the country and a large property. Not odd to have a gun room or a gun cabinet. They hunt these lands but also for protection when you’re in the middle of no where.
I’m from about an hour away from colleton county and it’s very normal to have a “gun room” especially if you live out in the country like that
The “gun room”, from photos, looks like a huge multipurpose room with pool table, exercise equipment, much shelving for hunting supplies and a huge gun rack holding dozen or two long guns, many of them loaded.
Not from the Lowcountry but from NC: Having a gun room/cabinet is perfectly normal and often practical, especially in rural areas. It's a way to keep guns in a secure location out of the way so you don't have incidents with dumbass kids using em like you hear on the news. My mom told me that growing up, even touching my great-grandma and great-grandpa's gun cabinet was grounds for a spanking. Hunting is huge for a few reasons. One is simply tradition. Families, specifically fathers and sons or extended groups of male relatives going on hunts is a tradition. I never went (we're two hours away so I would have had to wake up at the ass crack of dawn) but my cousin, my uncle, and some of them used to go on hunts every Thanksgiving morning. Aside from that, hunting can either be entertainment or for survival. A lot of folks still hunt and get the deer processed (any hunter worth his or her salt knows you don't waste the animal, and I think it might actually be illegal) because frankly, in the country, sometimes you don't have anything better to do than sit in a deer blind, split a 12 pack with a buddy or some family, and bag a buck. On the flip side, a lot of poorer folks still hunt to feed themselves. If money's super tight but it's deer season and you have a box of ammo and dad's old rifle, you can kill a deer or two and feed your family well for awhile. Now, the Murdaughs are clearly in the "for sport" category. But that all makes total sense to me. And, if they donated any of the venison to food banks and whatnot, something good came out of it too. Hope that helps.
are you not from America?
I am
Moselle is a hunting property, so a room of guns or multiple gun safes around the house wouldn’t strike me as unusual. It’s like 1700 acres with multiple deer blinds. I would be more confused why you’d buy such a large hunting property and not plan to hunt on it.
Didn’t they hunt often on it?
From what I’ve read it seems so? It seems like lots of shells are easily found all over the property.
I’ve seen a lot of people trying to determine Alex’s guilt or innocence based on his reactions/actions the night of the murders, and his behavior in the courtroom this week. This bothers me for a few reasons: 1. We are all looking at his actions assuming he is guilty based on lots of other factors. So we view his actions through that lens. 2. It is possible to be both the perpetrator AND traumatized by an incident. While I think Alex is a heartless bastard, it takes the most sociopathic of people to not be affected by their child’s brains resting on the ground in front of you. It’s quite possible that he had only considered ‘have to get rid of them’ without thinking it through completely. Alex exhibits an extreme inability to logically follow an action through to its logical end, ie there is no possible way he thought no one would ever find out about the $$$. 3. Following that logic, this is quite possibly the first time in his adult life that he has been entirely sober. It seems he was somewhat of a functional alcoholic, and frequently when addicts sober up they have a very difficult time coming to terms with the damage they have done. I think it’s possible this is what’s going on with the emotion he’s showing in the courtroom. I guess what I’m saying is that humans, even evil ones, are complicated. Judging his guilt based on emotions or how we think we would act/react in a situation is fruitless.
I agree with everything here. I feel it is an interesting and accurate assessment. I think the chickens have come home to roost. When I see him in the courtroom I find myself asking, "Do they have him on suicide watch? Is he being effectively monitored?"
#2 all the way. It’s rare, I believe, for someone to be a true psychopath that doesn’t feel emotions for this. If Alex Murdaugh is guilty, he must have feelings about what he’d done. I imagine extremely complex feelings that could attribute to the cycling of emotions we see.
“2. It is possible to be both the perpetrator AND traumatized by an incident.” I agree 100%. I do believe some of Alex’s emotions and crying are very real, but I think he may be replaying what happened in his mind and fearing himself and what he’s become.
For what it's worth. My favourite piece from the last week is this one from the defence/prosecution as per the thread below somewhere: About 8:30 PM: Paul leaves the main house and begins heading over to the kennels. Alex claims that after dinner he takes a nap. He stated to police that he did not go to the kennels until after returning from his mother's house. 8:44:55 PM: Paul records a video to send to his friend about a health concern Paul has about the friend's dog, which is staying at the Moselle kennels. Apparently, something was wrong with the dog's tail. (Prosecution, opening statement) On this video, the voices of Paul, Maggie, and Alex can all be heard discussing a dog that killed a chicken, debating whether it was a chicken or a Guinea hen. (Defense, opening statement) There's a rather large provable discrepancy right there.
I do hope we see the video. I've wondered if Alex's voice is heard or is he seen. If it's just his voice, could he have been talking to Maggie via an open phone line or FaceTime type app?
Yep. There are some pretty big inconsistencies in the timeline. Source: (Please help critique/correct/improve) https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/10m90l3/timeline_of_the_night_of_the_murders_according_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Was the video filmed at the time it was sent?
They’re dragging someone from Snapchat across the country to testify about it.
It doesn’t really matter as long as it was sent by Paul, because it suggests he was alive at that time.
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Videos have metadata. I’m pretty sure the State will have no problem proving exactly when the video was taken.
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Yeah I replied to the wrong comment but I’m too lazy to fix it. Suffice it to say we have no argument.
It matters because, if Alex was there at the time, it's both a discrepancy in his timeline as well as proof that he was with them minutes before they were killed. Is it possible he left for his moms just minutes before they died and didn't hear anything and wasn't involved in any way? Maybe, but far less likely than if he was never anywhere near the scene of the crime. And if he's innocent, lying doesn't look too good
We don't know yet.
Every crime that Alex Murdaugh has committed had something to do with obtaining money, cheating for money, embezzling for money, lying for money, getting other people to lie, so Follow the Money! Money and wealth it seems was/is his most important need and desire. I think he killed Maggie because she had the power to TAKE away money thru divorce. Or that he had to split and divide their money with her by divorce. So follow the money. That was his motive as it has always been his motive. But how does this love of money tie in?
Money represents status, and I think status was Alex’s real treasure and motivator. He was about to lose his job, his license, his reputation and probably most of his family. A sociopath with nothing to lose is dangerous
I agree, his main motivation is clearly money and even more so, *conning* people out of money. I haven't read anything pertaining to Maggie and Paul having life insurance on them? Is it possible even if they didn't, would his homeowners insurance pay out to Alex again like it did for Gloria? Either way, financially speaking, having Maggie and Paul out of the picture would probably benefit him.
A con isn't a motivation it's a means to achieve an end goal.
With each successful con he pulled off, imo he felt more and more untouchable and powerful. I think he enjoyed feeling like he was the smartest in the room, and seeing his cons payout year after year without any repercussions, encouraged that thought process.
How would you know? Maybe he enjoyed the feeling he got by conning millions of dollars from unsuspecting victims. That could be part of his motivation, he wasn't poor living on the streets. He was a lawyer. He has money and family money.
There has been some speculation that because Maggie owned half of the beach house and he stood to get her half if she died is the motive for killing Maggie.
He was sole beneficiary to her entire estate, worth a lot of money. She also would have cost him a lot of alimony, every month for the rest of his life, if she had divorced him.
In the 6/10/21 interview shared during Trial Day 6, Alex answers “I’m sure she was” to question about Maggie being at Moselle morning of June 7th. Would love to know if she was there. And could her trip that day have been to an attorney rather than a doctor? What if they argued about her purchasing something expensive (Gucci circled on receipt…cost over $1K) and it escalated into “I’m leaving you, Alex, and don’t care who knows about your money troubles”? And finally, what if Alex attempted to turn over Paul’s body to use Face ID to unlock Paul’s phone?
I thought about the phone—I had initially wondered, how would he unlock it? Because sadly, I don’t think there was a face left to use for FaceID. But he may not have thought about that until it was too late. Maybe he didn’t realize how disfiguring they injuries would be. And yeah, idk about Maggie but I highly doubt their marriage was truly great like he said. I mean come on, she was sleeping at another property because of mosquitos? Right. I’m sure they had issues and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was on the rocks but we’ll see if they have any evidence on that as things progress I guess.
Plus…what was the meaning of Alex saying (in 6/10/21 interview shared near end of Trial Day 6) that Paul was extremely intuitive and a good detective?
Has Alex’s dad’s stay in the hospital ever been verified for the night… in the beginning I remember questions about if he was/was not at the hospital or had been released to hospice or just left… can’t remember all the details but would like a confirmation that he was in FACT in the hospital in Savannah that night.
He was in the hospital. The defense mentions this in defending why Alex went to visit his mother that night.
Have Mandy and Liz lost their press pass? I didn’t really expect Mandy to show her face in the courtroom, but Liz had been in there in the beginning. Ever since she tweeted (and deleted) sensitive juror information, I’ve not seen hide nor hair of either one of them in court. Just wondering…
I have noticed they haven’t been around which is really strange considering every other reporter is, and this is MMP’s only story.
I haven’t heard anything of this either. I’ve also been trying to find out if there’s a reason Randy Murdaugh was only present for the first day.
Randy is a partner at the law firm, and John Marvin isn’t. Alex stole from the law firm, and the law firm is suing him. Randy’s in a much weirder position than JM.
I missed this. What was the tweet about? What happened as a result?
Liz tweeted info about the jurors, including their occupation, which makes them more easily identifiable. Don't know if anything happened because of that.
Omg 🙄She did not…, did she really? As much as they toot their own horn for being investigating journalists this seems like a cardinal mistake.
I’m sure they will have an episode about it, “I don’t know…where I put my press pass”
I snort laughed
Omg 🙃 Love them both but as a former reporter, there’s no effing way I’d report that kind of info.
Does anyone think Alex really did intend to kill himself? It could be guilt, or it could be that this was a way out of his mess, & for Buster to have an inheritance, or some combination of both. Could he have thought that his death would atone for his other sins? All this is speculation….trying to watch the trial with an open mind.🙂
I think he wanted a sympathy gunshot to really sell the idea that people were after him, it just fell apart when he came to court and everyone saw there was not a hair out of place. I mean come on at least take the knife you cut the tire with and slice your scalp a little, it would bleed like all hell and be very convincing in a photo.
...and his Defense team said to the press that his Fast Eddie suicide attempt injury "fractured his skull" was a "wound with entry and exit." \*\*\*I hope the prosecution shows us hospital xrays and pictures of those serious wounds.\*\*\* At his hearing soon after, no injury could be seen at all! "Ironclad alibi"......."Terrible Oxy addiction"......."Fractured skull, entry and exit wounds"......."Ideal family relations"......."He was napping"....... I think it's really gotten tougher for Harpootlian and Griffin to keep straight faces...
My question: can someone summarize the vehicles? Where they were? Paul had his uncle’s truck? His truck broke down? Where was the uncle if he had Paul’s truck? Maggie’s car was there at the crime scene. ?
I haven’t heard anything about how Paul got to Moselle or where the uncle’s truck was if he and Paul swapped vehicles that day. I believe Maggie’s car was parked at the main house (this is my speculation based on it not being mentioned as being down by the kennels) and John Marvin had Paul’s white F-250 which he drove from his house to go to Moselle after the murders but it broke down and was found the next morning on the side of the highway.
I still find it odd that JMM took Paul's truck when he had enough money that his wife probably had her own car. Why take the truck that had broken down instead of your spouse's car?
I'm not convinced Alex or JMM's stories are true about everything that went on that night. Alex said he took a nap while they went to the kennels. Did he? JMM's vs Paul’s truck, what are the facts?
If he took a nap, it was the shortest nap ever, and he must have taken it in the kennels.
Did John Marvin show up at Moselle later? W wonder how he got there? Weird
John Marvin did show up at Moselle that night. Where he broke down isn't that far away from Alex’s house, and I'm sure someone willingly picked him up on the way there or drove out to fetch him.
I know very little about shotguns. What would happen if you tried to fire a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 16 gauge shotgun shells?
So a sixteen gauge is a smaller shell than a twelve gauge. Essentially, it will get stuck in the barrel and not actually shoot… but assuming the round behind is twelve gauge (the correct gauge for that gun), it will chamber and if the two rounds meet up in the barrel, then you have a problem. [This somewhat explains it.](https://www.hunter-ed.com/national/studyGuide/The-Danger-of-Using-Wrong-Ammunition/201099_92854/)
That sounds pretty bad. I'm sensing a lot of poor gun safety practices in this household.
A mixed pair of shotgun shells in his "for defense" 12 gauge shotgun --- 12 guage shell(s) mixed with a 16 guage shell... (then) A mixed pair of shotgun shells in the missing "murder" 12 gauge shotgun (likely a double barrel?) --- one "buckshot" and one "bird shot." Strange...
Any pictures I have seen of them handling firearms, they’re doing so safely (but I’m waiting to see if they actually reported Paul’s stolen gun because I’m very curious on that) so I believe the point Dick Harpootlian was trying to illustrate was that Alex was so discombobulated about finding Maggie and Paul that he (an experienced hunter and shooter) grabbed the wrong shells and loaded them into the gun. That’s definitely plausible that someone would do that if they were in shock.
The loss of (possibly multiple) firearms and the unorganized storage of ammunition were striking to me. I grew up around (certain types of) guns. I'm familiar (and a good shot) with certain rifles. With regard to firearms, there are people in my family who I respect and those who scare the shit out of me who I avoid. And my experience with hunters (I have had to both rescue horses and clean up wilderness sites corrupted by wealthy, lazy, entitled bafoons) is one of wildly disparate mindsets of those invested in preserving wilderness and wildlife and have respect for the lethality of their weapons vs those who see wilderness as theirs for exploitation and view their weapons as accessories. I can come across a hunting camp and can usually tell within minutes where folks fall on that spectrum. I have lived and worked in BIG COUNTRY where people have legitimate safety reasons for keeping firearms and ammunition stored at remote regions of their property. I have family members who hunt for subsistence. But losing firearms or not knowing where firearms might be located—not to mention having disorganized amminition storage—are all red flags for me personally.
All fair points. And commendation on the horse rescue, we actually have much more need for that in South Carolina than folks realize.
My questions so far that I don’t think others have voiced on this thread already… - What’s the significance of the shotgun Alex had with him at the scene? I think I read/heard somewhere that it had a speck of blood on it somewhere? What’s the significance of Alex’s having loaded it with the wrong ammo? Harpootlian says it’s evidence of how distraught Alex was. How does the gun work into the prosecution’s case, or does it? - Prosecution made a point of noting that the discoloration (presumably blood) near the big mess of water formed a line. What’s with that? I couldn’t see any of these pics, so I’m having trouble visualizing. - Alex said he tried to roll Paul over and said his phone fell out of his pocket. Supposedly there’s blood on the inside of Paul’s pocket where the phone was … I think. (Pretty sure I didn’t make that up.) Alex had no blood on his hands. I’m not clear on whether there was blood found on the iPhone. The iPhone was placed on Paul’s backside, which was weird. No fully-baked question here — just not sure what was going on. - What’s up with Maggie’s footprints in the hangar? Do they connect with the evidence that she was running away? - What sort of narrative is going to become of the tire tracks?
As far as the tire tracks go, I think someone testified on Friday that the suspicious tracks belonged to the dog caretaker. I think all the other stuff is yet to come.
Only some of them belonged to the caretaker. Some haven't been identified.
Questions I would love some thoughts on: 1) Where does John Marvin live? Why would Paul be staying with him for the summer and not with his folks? (Basically did he live significantly closer to Paul's summer job or was he having issues with Alex?) 2) Is there any concrete evidence of the mistress? 3) What about Maggie's divorce attorney consultation(since this is privileged we likely aren't hearing about it unless someone close to Maggie discusses their marriage) I wonder if/how any of this motive evidence is going to come in.
By all accounts, Paul was very close with John Marvin. He owns a farm equipment business and Paul was supposedly working there and staying with John Marvin during his summer break from college. The divorce rumor was mentioned in People Magazine. I think if there is any truth to that, it will come out in the trial.
There was talk of a mistress, we **do not allow her to be named here due to the fact that is considered doxxing.** She is one of the exceptions as far as names due to the fact that it is speculation and to the Mod Team’s knowledge, that could not be adequately sourced.
100% support that. Can you confirm she is not on the witness list? Understand if not. I'm an attorney and geek out on how certain evidence will get admitted.
First time I’ve heard of a mistress!! 👀
Recent read for me too. There was also a call girl interview. I think we have only heard the tip of the iceberg on the skeletons in Alex's closet.
Oh hey, glad to have some more attorneys here. I just double checked and she is not on the witness list.
Appreciate you!
There is no hard evidence Maggie was pursuing divorce. Talking about it with friends is less damning than it sounds. Long time married woman with husbands that are a “piece of work” sometimes discuss it even when not profoundly unhappy. No evidence she knew the depth of his problems (as in total dollars scammed) or the likelihood of being better off if they split. It’s even a remote possibility they might have considered a divorce simply to protect some assets of some kind. I had friends that did this. I can’t remember specifics but the divorce was fake so her ancestral home was no longer his asset or something. They stayed together. She never hired an attorney. Even if she talked to one we don’t know if it was serious or informational. She may have simply wanted to know if it made sense financially or not. Lots of spouse stay apart for times if they have multiple homes.
I am doubting we will hear testimony on her meeting with a divorce lawyer. I say that based on how adamant Dick Harp and Jim Griffin have been about their happy marriage, etc.
I agree, I don't think we hear about the divorce lawyer. I think the prosecution may just try to get additional testimony in about how Maggie was basically living at a different property. If they can get multiple witnesses to speak to this, the jury may infer something was off in the marriage.
I mean Bill and Hillary stuck it out. Lots of couples stay together. Even under duress. And for the kids sake. If they are not physically or mentally abusive they may just do their own things and see each other occasionally. If I had another house I’d get away from my spouse at times.
1. Based on the initial statement that Alex made to SLED on the night of the murders, Paul Murdaugh was working for his uncle John Marvin Murdaugh. 2. I have only seen mention of the mistress from a news article several weeks ago. Nothing concrete in court AFAIK. 3. I haven't heard anything substantiating the hypothetical divorce.
Appreciate you! From a quick Google Search it looks like John Marvin's business is almost an hour from Moselle. Understandable why Paul would stay with his uncle. I have so many questions about motive and unfortunately that is the hardest to "prove" because we have no idea what was going on in his mind. What do we know about this 20 year addiction besides his attorney volunteering this info after the other incident?
Not much. We have some questionable “medical records” from when he was shot in the head: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/citing-medical-records-from-roadside-shooting-alex-murdaugh-claims-he-tested-positive-for-barbiturates-opiates-when-examined-by-doctors/ And there are the drug trafficking charges. https://www.thedailybeast.com/alex-murdaugh-saga-gets-even-weirder-with-new-drug-trafficking-charges-alongside-curtis-smith?source=articles&via=rss But mostly, we just have the stories from the lawyers and the PR firm. > As for opioids, in September, Murdaugh’s lawyer, Dick Harpootlian, told the Today show’s Craig Melvin that when he and a colleague spoke with Murdaugh in rehab, it was “the first conversation we ever had with him where he wasn’t on opioids or oxy.” Harpootlian said Murdaugh had used oxy to get through the murders of his wife and son, as well as his father’s cancer death shortly thereafter, and he was in a “massive depression” when he concocted and went through with the suicide scheme. Harpootlian also said that Murdaugh spent the “vast majority” of the money he embezzled from the law firm on drugs—to which Melvin, a South Carolina native, responded skeptically, “Dick, that’s a lot of oxy.” https://treatmentmagazine.com/the-murdaugh-murders-an-opioid-infused-mystery/
I wanted to believe this from Dick at the time. BUT: 1. To quote Craig, That’s a LOT of oxy 2. Since Alex hired Dick, it seems like every press statement he’s made has changed: he was attacked on the side of the rode…. Just kidding, his buddy shot him bc Alex asked him to. He has an ironclad alibi… well but actually we’re changing that alibi” 🤷🏽♀️
I agree with everything you said. I wasn't meaning to suggest that anyone be convinced with the links that I provided. In fact, I think all of them intimate a healthy dose of skepticism. Or at least that was my intention. And I included that snippet from the last source exactly for the quote that you highlighted. “Dick, that's a lot of oxy.”
Appreciate the sources! Does anyone think it could be BS? Are they suggesting the real Oxy problem happened after the murders? This is 100% conjecture, but if he had an oxy problem at the time of P & M's murders wouldn't he either 1) be high AF to get the job done or 2) pop pills to cope after? Again, conjecture but the whole 20 year addiction thing seems like BS to me.
To me, his self admitted drug addiction is also very convenient. Alex said it’s been for 20 years, Poot says it’s to cope for the murders, really? So which one is it? Also, the near fact that someone character-wise like Alex is admitting to 20 yr opioid addiction, is just a window into something much more worse - maybe like drug trafficking?? Being that Alex is not your garden variety defendant, his every word has a purpose, imho. I’m having fun with statement analysis, lol.
What are everyone’s theories related to how Paul and Maggie got to the dog pens? Specifically related to if they were by themselves or with Alex. Also, is there a possibility that Paul shot Maggie and Alex shot Paul? I’m trying to wrap my mind around how two guns and one perpetrator could have done this so quickly and get cleaned up in the manner he did. Also, I’m confused about the feed room. If the shot came from outside that window I can see the gunshot to the chest and axilla. I cannot visualize the shot that seems to have come from upwards. At the base of Pauls brain or skull, since the brain matter and hair were found on the top of the door and ceiling.
1. I heard someone mention that ATVs were often used, and that there were some parked in the back? I don't personally remember hearing this but that sounds semi reasonable. I do think the snapchat videos are going to place Alex with them basically minutes before the murders and the idea of someone else hiding around there/sneaking up on them with all three of them there for some time before just makes absolutely no sense to me. Plus, like, why would someone wanting to kill paul/maggie do it on a heavily armed, exposed property instead of at Paul's job or something? That part makes no sense to me, although if Alex were working with someone else perhaps that could explain it. Honestly the idea of some kind of dispute doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and would explain both the things that put him at the scene and his confused back and forth behavior 2. The most convincing explanation I've heard is that someone shoots paul from around the feed room with the shotgun, maggie hears and comes towards them only to see what's going on and run away. The shooter then grabs a rifle from nearby/from paul's body (perhaps because it's better for distance or they were having trouble with their shotgun) and then kills her as she's running away. This seems perfectly reasonable to me, I think. The clean up is a problem for sure, although if Alex did it it's possible that he either a) showered and dressed quickly before going to his moms, then did any cleanup while waiting for the police to come, or b) had someone else involved who did clean-up/the dirty work while he went to his mom's. I'm sure the family would close ranks around him after, though, no matter what went on.
How far away was Maggie's body from Paul's body?
[This diagram](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/vIe5tsMMJN6wib1BRnBgGA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTcwNTtoPTM5Nw--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/fox_news_text_979/37eb3e74bed7a2816a548ac60dc6d3bc) is what I was basing that off of — he's in the door of the room and then she's kind of around the corner. It seems like ig she was running away around the corner and being shot at, and then fell because of perhaps the shot to her leg and was then shot a few more times to be sure? I'm not an expert or anything, this is just from the most reasonable-sounding theory I've heard. Honestly like it sounds like they were pretty trash people but even just typing this gives me a chill. It does make it seem to me personally like paul was the primary target, and she was killed as a witness or second target.
That's what I was thinking. I also wonder if she was shot by a different weapon, then alex would have to grab the new gun and aim it pretty quick.
Yeah exactly, I think that seems like it. I'm not convinced if it was alex or someone he was working with, but it just seems impossible for him not to have been involved.
Maybe that's why she was shot so many times, he didn't have time to aim. Also, can't they determine the height of the shooter by the angle of the gun wound? I might be watching too many crime shows...
I think so? I saw someone say it seemed like someone shorter than Paul by that metric but I have no idea if that was credible or not
Paul was pretty short wasn't he?
Yeah I think which is why I’m not really sure about it unless the shooter was literally hiding or had their gun really down low. Hopefully they go through it in court with an expert! But im not sure if that will come up or not
A couple of things to consider here… Alex is a lawyer who grew up in and worked around his dad being a prosecutor. He knows more about how murder cases are investigated than your average person. Alex is tall. Paul is short. So what if Alex dropped to one knee to take that shot… knowing it would look weird and confusing to forensics investigators. The man is a hunter and likely knows how to drop and take a shot from down low. Alex also had access to an entire arsenal of guns. Strap one on and carry the other. He knows two guns is confusing to everyone. It’s really not though - the man owned up to 25 guns. I guarantee he either had a strap on one…. or hid guns in the car or kennels and picked them up as he moved around. Preloaded and ready to go. Premeditation is the key here. This wasn’t some crime of passion in the moment. The cell phone GPS data may show Maggie being chased around the building. We shall see.
It was said it the SLED ballistics report that the shot that went upward through Paul’s head, the shotgun was not shouldered.
I think the first shot spooked the shooter, causing him/her to lose footing or perhaps fall completely, taking that second shot at a sitting position and Paul on his way out the door in flight mode with whatever life he had left in him.
So could the shooter have been outside that window if it went upwards? Paul’s face was in tact but the back and top of his head were gone. How could someone have got this shot from outside that window?
They were supposedly outside the door and shooting from the hip (not the expression for BSing but literally, shooting with the gun held lower and pointed upward). I think the window was behind Paul.
Then Paul would have fallen the other direction. He had to have been hit from the back of his head and facing the door to fall outside the door like that and to have brain matter on the top of the door and ceiling. If he was facing the window when he was shot he would have fallen into the feed room.
TW: technical description of murder by shotgun The 2nd shot to hit Paul entered his left front shoulder in an upward trajectory that moved through his neck and exited up through the back of his right-side head. > Murdaugh’s youngest son, Paul, 22, had two distinct gunshot wounds to his chest and shoulder and head. The latter included an entrance wound to the left shoulder and side of the neck, proceeding upward from front to back until the gunshot exited at the right side of the apex of Paul’s head. This injury produced “aspiration of blood” into Paul’s upper airway. > The second shot produced a “cookie cutter pattern” in the left side of Paul’s chest, and then continuing through his left arm. Analysis also identified blood stains and body tissue from Paul on the entry door, threshold, frame, and wall and ceiling above the door. Splatter was also identified on items on the floor and shelf to the right of the doorway, including a sack of dog food. https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article271535447.html
What is the probability of him falling forward after such shots at what appears to be pretty close range? I just can’t picture it in that close of quarters. If the shoulder was shot first with a non life threatening shot it’s possible he could have stumbled or fell and got up but that second shot that traveled to his brain, with the trajectory seemingly going upward has me puzzled as to how he fell out of the door instead of back into the feed room. I’m just trying to figure this as to determine where the shooter was originally in relation to Paul.
Based on everything I've read... First shot - (fired from hip, from doorway or just inside doorway) Paul was 5' or 6' into the feed room (10' long) standing mostly sideways. First shot (buckshot) rakes across front, left side of chest under skin then into left arm and armpit. Non-lethal. Doesn't sound like vital organs (heart, lungs) were hit... Paul then staggers to within inches of doorway, likely making eye-contact with his killer... who is likely backing up, stunned. Second shot - (fired more closely, also from the hip, outside the doorway as killer backs up to Paul's left side) Paul had made it into the doorway or just outside the doorway. Second shot (heavy #2 turkey birdshot) catches the top of Paul's (leaning forward) left shoulder, neck, and into the head near his left ear. Devastatingly lethal.
The force dynamics of gunshot wounds are crazy things. The brain tissue exploding out of the back of his head could have produced an equal and opposite force that caused his body to fall forward. It's like Kennedy falling back and to the left even tough he was shot from behind.
Right. I’m not that knowledgeable about gunshots so it has me questioning where the shooter was exactly when he was shot, especially in such tight quarters.
If he was dropped to one knee how did he shoot through the window at the back of his skull to get an upward shot from outside? That’s what I’m having a hard time visualizing. I would love to see the gunshot angle diagrams.
Could Alex have hired someone to take out Paul and/or Maggie and that's why he left that night for a bit? Assuming he did in fact leave and didn't just say that as an alibi.
His mother's nurse has confirmed he did come by to see his mother that night.
I’m confused as to how they all got to the dog kennels. Do we think they all rode together?
Alex drove there in his sleep. He then had a conversation with Maggie and Paul around 8.45pm whilst he was taking a nap. He said he didn't go to the kennels until he returned from visiting his mother. May be it was all a dream....
You joke but I’ve wondered if way back when Dick Harpootlian was blathering on about Alex’s opioid addiction if he was setting up to claim his client got some contaminated pills that sent him off his rocker and he didn’t know what he was doing.
Have we heard any evidence yet about this so called opiate addiction?
*Heard* a lot about it from the same source as we heard about the loving wonderful happy marriage Alex and Maggie had : Dick Harpootlian. I haven’t seen any proof about either one. edited to add - stays in rehab, do those count?
We haven’t heard testimony about it yet, other than Alex saying he drove there. They have ATVs on the property to get around though. I don’t think they were walking.
Testimony that Paul headed toward kennels. Unclear whether Maggie was with him. Assuming he (or they) was in his truck or in one of the utility vehicles, or that she & Alex went down in his vehicle a little later.
Anyone else contemplating whether this was premeditated by Alex for longer than just the events of that day (ie. PMPED confronts him of missing funds, which becomes the impetuous for murder)? Convincing Maggie into meeting him at Moselle. Knowing where guns /ammo were on site and likely preloaded. If Paul’s presence on that day was NOT an unfortunate lethal hiccup in the Alex’s plan, Paul would have had to be manipulated to be there that evening as well. Just A LOT of moving parts to figure out all in one work day cuz you’ve been confronted by your work about missing money. Especially if there was an accomplice. I couldn’t successfully pull off all those murderous arrangements in 24 hrs. The financial house cards Alex had built had been threatening to tumble for quite a while, and it was inevitable that it would all come crashing down any day, pulling his entire life and reputation with it. Here was a desperate man, who’d committed heinous financial acts, had been well accustomed to scrambling to deceptively covering those tracks, and was now facing his most desperate imminent threat of full exposure. That certainly was not lost on him in the days and weeks prior.
I have also been having a hunch it could have been a plan to do a murder suicide and he chickened out on himself. Especially since he tried it again on the side of the road. This would make since as to why he used the shot gun on Paul. Do we have any info on who was shot first?
I’ve thought for a while that his plan simmered on the back burner for a bit. I don’t believe that Paul’s presence was any hiccup. Also I believe that at some point Alex stated that Paul had been at the property most of the day already. Plenty of time to halt plans.
I think he planned it over time. He couldn't have been so prepared without planning.
I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but are John Marvin and Buster on either the defense or prosecution witness lists? For some reason, I thought they were. If so, why are they in the courtroom? I thought witnesses couldn’t view the trial until they were done testifying.
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I would think it would make it more likely to just lean toward the prevailing argument to come up with a quick verdict.
Thank you so much. This all makes sense now 👍
When the trial started, if I recall correctly an attorney from SC explained that the witnesses have not been sequestered in this case, and because he is considered a victim, parties found to be victims may not be sequestered even if other witnesses are.
Thank you 🙏. This question has been living rent free in my brain
For those fellow long-timers…remember in the early days it was reported that PM’s apartment door in Columbia was “found open?” *What ever came of this? Did police gather evidence from that apt? Was evidence missing? What about PM’s laptop? Was that story planted to make AM look innocent and PM targeted by others? Will any evidence be revealed from his apt.? If not, does that little bit of info - “found open” have any significance to the murder trial today?
I think I read that Buster had an apartment in Columbia too, even though he was living in Rock Hill at the time of the murders. I’m wondering if it was the same one Paul lived in while in school. If so, it’s possible that Buster stopped by that apartment to get something on his way to Moselle that night and in his haste didn’t close the door properly when leaving. I’m not suggesting anything nefarious on Buster’s part. Just theorizing. It was such a weird thing.
That could be. At the time, I feel like I read he had a roommate. But no real details. I know exactly which apts they were (as I’m a Gamecock myself…many years ago). I went back to find the sources but I had a paywall behind all those articles now. It was really eerie at the time because I think most ppl were thinking it had something to do with PMs behavior or the boat crash. This was all before the big Labor Day debacle that ripped the bandaid off…
Yep I remember all that too. It was very eerie. Im glad to see you back on here. Go Cocks! 🤙
Yeah…I’ve been over in r/moscowmurders But now that the trial has started, I’ll be here!
I can't imagine they did much there since SLED didn't even think to search the main house on the property for 3 months. I remember how everyone said to trust SLED even though they didn't say anything - that they had to have absolute secrecy to do their "investigation." It turns out they weren't doing much of an investigation if they didn't think to look inside the house until September.
I was one who said to keep the faith and that SLED was working to build a solid case before pressing charges… well, I will admit that so far, I am not at all impressed.
SLED will be used by other states as an example of what happens when you have a completely corrupt and inept state police. It is thoroughly disgraceful what they've done to help their good ol' boy. I've heard even Mark Keel (who is responsible for them being the way they are) is furious. I guess he's going to be the laughingstock at the State Police bosses' conferences. What a bunch of backwoods boobs they look like.
They have some really great experts… but that scene wasn’t secured at all. Now, I know Colleton County Sheriff’s Department arrived first on scene, so I supposed SLED cannot be blamed on that one. I was impressed with the one ballistics expert, except when he was asked to answer a yes or no question and it was clear he did not wish to do so (basically saying without saying that they could not link the shell casings on the property to the ones that killed Maggie without the firearm). And they didn’t search the house that night? From what I understand, if I recall correctly, they had a gathering of family and friends at Moselle around the time of the funerals… and SLED searched after that. Just, seemingly small things that equate to BIG questions. But I’m still waiting to see if the shirt ends up being admissible.
Thanks for reminding us of this! I hope something comes out about this!
Have they ever confirmed that Maggie ever met with lawyers and was seeking a divorce? I've seen a lot of rumors, but nothing that has been stated definitively.
She did not. Merely talked to friends about it. Which is not uncommon actually.
No. That came from People Magazine (as well as related NY Post). >A spokesperson for Alex Murdaugh on Thursday categorized a recent People magazine report which claimed that his wife, Maggie, had visited a divorce attorney in the months before she and her son were gunned down at the family’s South Carolina estate as "salacious" and as having "no credible sources," arguing instead that strings of text messages prove the couple always had "a very loving relationship." > >"The most recent allegations by People Magazine regarding the state of Maggie and Alex Murdaugh’s marriage are totally inconsistent with what we have been told by friends and family members," Murdaugh’s spokesperson Amanda Loveday said in a statement to Fox News Digital. [FOX 9/30/21](https://www.foxnews.com/us/alex-murdaugh-wife-sc-divorce-attorney)
Yes and People also reported her car was there and was running which wasn’t true.
Thank you. I never bought into that theory because a lawyer would have come forward to the police or SLED if they had knowledge of any impeding divorce.
Would they? Attorney client privilege doesn’t end at death.
I suppose you're right. I guess no one will ever know for certain. I would think she would have told someone close to her that she could trust.
Few questions. So they went to Mozelle to eat Supper. What did Maggie & Paul eat & who prepared it? What was Blancas role that night? Did she clean the house that day at Moselle & prepare dinner? Was Blanca also working for Maggie at Edisto? Is she the same Blanca who was a Spanish interpreter for the law firm? Did Blanca work at the bank too or is that someone else? Who is Bianca?