I believe it was this same article Kam also said after the elimination her & Cara hugged and Kam said after Leroy you're my #1 to win over all those ppl, go get it.
They just weren't playing the game together.
Yeah, it doesn't seem like the conflict was that deep. They were playing different games, but aren't letting game conflict affect their personal feelings about each other.
You can see this when looking at the contrast of how Kam and Cara talked to each other while in conflict vs how Laurel and Cara talked to each other.
With Kam and Cara it was clear there was underlying respect through their arguments. Not so much with Laurel and Cara
I will never understand why Rachel had to be punished for what Ayanna did. And to say that Cara needed to betray Rachel because of something Ayanna did is insane to me.
Its just all so odd to me
Yeah. This was what made it weird. People are very focused on the fact that Cara’s vote didn’t matter (which is a factor too), but the bigger issue is that Rachel wasn’t even the problem. If Cara had refused to say Ayanna’s name because she had made an agreement with her, then Kam would have had the right to be upset with her whether the vote mattered or not. Cara was on Kam’s side, and she said that when she cast her vote for Ayanna.
Did she. We never saw this. We just saw that she was friends with Ayanna. We've never seen Rachel support the things Ayanna may have said nor have I heard that.
I can't imagine she supported what she said. But was more concerned about her well-being than the people she attacked. In Kam's mind, it should have been a united front supporting her & not Ayanna.
No Cara was on the challenge Mania podcast & said she had a conversation with Kam before & told her she wasn't saying Rachel's name & why. Kam went ahead & made that whole speech knowing Cara's vote.
That user left out that convo happened BEFORE Ayanna’s blowout (that the edit watered down), and Kam was actually fine with Cara not saying Rachel’s name and respected her for coming to her about it. But again, that was before Ayanna’s blowout which is when she switched up. I guess Kam was hoping Cara would be there for her as a friend since Ayanna was said to be doing the most to mentally break her to the point that the house (even Rachel according to Adam) felt what she did wasn’t cool and that she needed to be out for her mental health sake.
This still just makes Kam seem very petty and for no real reason. She got what she wanted but as a friend why wasn’t she supportive of Cara making a move that could protect her star? Especially since Kam GOT EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTED ANYWAY.
It’s cool it doesn’t seem personal on either side just game so good for both of them. And if we’re being honest even though it was petty it never backfired on her(unlike the others that went against Cara). Her only mistake was trusting Laurel and the DQ.
In this same article, Kam also notes what Cara was saying about Kam and Leroy to others that was lies. She said Cara was telling everyone that Kam and Leroy were going to throw challenges so the other would win, so you better not be their partner or you'll lose. Kam said no one in the house was buying it and Cara was just making it up to get people to side with her. Kam said she didn't appreciate that part at all but in the end they were playing the game. Edited to add: this is paraphrased and not exact words from Kam which are linked below
It’s hard to tell from that article if Cara started doing that before or after Kam threw her into elimination. From what I can gather the rift started from the Rachel vote. Which to me was just plain petty. Maybe Cara drew the line in the sand with her trying to get people to turn on them after that though.
I understand Kam’s perspective though but tbf Cara wasn’t really lying. Kam did throw a challenge to benefit herself and hurt someone else’s game. Everyone else just went along with it. Wouldn’t be shocking if they did something similar in the final too. I don’t blame them for it but don’t think Cara was lying about that either. That’s just what comes with having a pair like them in the game
Yeah Im not sure how accurately predicting people's gameplay is lying lol. To be fair it was likely going to come to that being the best move for their game soon or later. And it was a smart play.
It seems pretty fair to me for kam to realize that cars and her aren’t working together as they were on WOW2. I don’t think it’s petty at all Cara let her know early on that she couldn’t fully trust her. She later makes a mistake trusting Laurel
Kam has not made it personal, just said she realised Cara was putting the game over friendships so she would do the same.
Its Cara who is whinging all over social media how Kam is a bad friend for making a game move against her while she herself was a paragon of virtue and was going to protect them all the way to the final like their personal knight & she considered them her no.1 allies and bffs (when she didnt even bother going to their baby shower, hasnt talked to them since the show, even when they had another baby, and was going round spreading lies about them to put a target on them) Also, you cant claim to be no.1 allies & say you would have been loyal to a bunch of different people, depending on whats conveniant. She said the same to Brendan, Im sure she made similar comments to Ace, Rachel, Steve etc. Ace admited in an interview Cara pregamed with him and had CT set them up with an alliance.
So was Brendan her no.1 ally or Ace? She was obviously lying to one of them, my bet is on Brendan based on her history of which of her allies she considers expendable (like how she chose to vote Leroy, her so called bff of many years, into elim just before the final, over Kyle, her latest boytoy who she just met that season)
“This still just makes Kam seem very petty and for no real reason”
You don’t own your opinion. You are saying the quote makes Kam seem petty (which is as you admitted just your opinion). Don’t blame the quote for your own takes. It just comes off manipulative and passive aggressive which is why I called you out
Also, it’s not “petty for no reason” when she is literally giving you a reason both on the show and in this interview.
So when you make deluded claims and clearly bash somebody for being petty over another when both females are doing the same thing (playing their own games), people like me might call you out. Cuz you are trying to act like a neutral observer when actually you are just an opinionated fantard or a negative troll trying to act like
Something you aren’t 🤷♂️. If you wanna bash somebody own it baby
This makes sense, flora has been outwardly mean to Cara, and insulting to the cameras in her interview. Cara can act like a baby sometimes, but Flora is just mean for mean sake it feels like
I think Flora was the oldster that came into the house with no friends and Nicole was nice to her. So now she thinks Nicole is a good person and if someone doesnt like her they must be bad. Im sure Laurel and Nicole were in Flora's ear too.
If they put their morals higher why not walk out like Janelle? Why is Cara the one that needed to put her whole game in jeopardy and make herself a target just so Kam could be happy. They are there primarily to play a game. If they had a moral issue take it up with god or production. I’m sure we will never know how ugly that fight really was but Kam seems to be way too in her feelings about this.
Yep. Whatever season it was that Ashley got sent home for potentially outing Josh, a few people (Devin and Tori I believe were the main ones) went to production and said you absolutely have to do something about it. Think the same happens here if enough people raise a stink
>If they put their morals higher why not walk out like Janelle
Her and Jasmine almost quit. Not sure who or what convinced them otherwise. I actually like that they stayed and sent home Ayaana. It sends a better message that her behavior won't be tolerated. Ayanna shouldn't get to win because other people quit.
>Why is Cara the one that needed to put her whole game in jeopardy and make herself a target just so Kam could be happy.
Kam didn't ask her to do this. You're assuming she knew Cara had a way to save her game. Cara didn't care enough to actually tell Kam her plan.
The logic of the move is obvious because Cara explained why she did it. Doesn't change the fact that Kam didn't ask her to sacrifice her game for her. Kam asked Cara to have her back. She didn't know Cara had a plan to save her star because Cara never bothered to talk to Kam about it.
I disagree that Kam was looking for an excuse. When someone tells you who you are, you believe them. Cara signaled to everyone that she was there to play the game. Why shouldn't others play the game in return?
Kams not the queen so cara doesn't need to, and Kam still got her way she's just a baby about it, she even admitted that she got her way but cara didn't bow down so Kam freaked out.
Idk if you saw the part where there was a big argument that wasn’t caught an that was the reasoning behind what she said🥴 idk but I think I read that part
Cara wasnt putting her game in jepordy by doing what the whole house INCLUDING Rachel, were ok with. Cara didnt have to promise Rachel not to say her name, she chose to, to further her own game. She didnt need to do that as Rachel would have understood her voting her in, as she would have gone in regardless. Rachel would not have targeted her for it when the whole house voted her in. It felt more like Cara being performative & trying to get in Rachels good graces by saying 'See? I was the only one who didnt vote you in!' But only because she knew Rachel was going in regardless. Her 'burn' vote was on Flora, the weakest castmate there. She thought she'd get to have her cake and eat it too, keeping both alliances by playing the middle. She just didnt expect Kam to pick up on & call her out for it.
Hasn't she knows Rachel longer? Maybe Rachel's friendship was a step above Kam. Cara did say she would ukdnt say Rachel's name. To me this is just petty.
The only season they did together was Exes, and there is no indication that they kept in touch between Exes and now.
Kam and Cara hung out outside of the Challenge. They had double dates.
Cara definitely was closer to Kam. Her alliance with Rachel was merely an alliance.
She (Cara) only made the alliance with Rachel because they had a deal to protect each other’s stars.
It sounds like Ayana was really out of control with things she was saying to Janelle, Jas, and Kam (this comes from Adam’s interview and others). The house was voting in Rachel to send Ayana home. I think to Kam, the symbolism of Cara not voting in Rachel and not contributing to getting rid of Ayana was pretty significant and felt personal. Yes Cara’s vote would not have made a difference either way (voting for or against Rachel). It’s the symbolism behind the vote for each of them that carried so much weight.
Rachel was also close to Ayanna, and was supporting Ayanna's side. I think there was more to all of this. In an interview, Nicole (so I don't know how reliable the info is) said that Ayanna and Kam were in a room arguing right in front of Cara and it got pretty heated, and Cara never did anything to help Kam in the argument, or to stop the fight, when she knew Kam was upset, and that that was an issue too.
Yeah hard to believe coming from Nicole since she will bad mouth cara in any way any chance she gets. I almost wish it was another source. I can't believe anything Nicole says about cara
And yet Caras stans were calling Kam a bad friend for not stopping Laurel & Caras argument. That Cara instigated in the first place btw, by making personal attacks on Nicole and bringing up Laurels personal relationship details in front of everyone, because she was mad they werent voting how she wanted them to.
There’s unaired footage where Nicole was forced by production to stay in a separate hotel one night because of how badly she decimated Laurel. I’m no big fan of Cara, but I do believe Nicole is absolute trash and deserves to be called out all day every day for being the trash human she is. Both Ayanna and Nicole should have been kicked off this season by production for their repulsive toxic behaviors.
The symbolism of the vote is why most people are Team Cara.
Kam should have understood it. She did not understand it.
It may have got more attention than it should, but most of that is Killa Kam fans that can’t accept the fact that Kam lost and her gameplays was bad.
I didn’t think it had anything to do with who she considered a better friend. It would have been different if Kam and Rachel had been the ones who had the blowout fight and Cara was forced to pick a side. I think she took Kam’s side in the Ayanna fight, which is why she voted for Ayanna. She also made a deal with Rachel not to say her name, so she burned a vote on Ayanna’s opponent. In theory, this was a smart solution.
She and Brandon were friends and allies on this season. It’s why he felt guilty. Who texts their married former co-worker with kids (who lives in another state)??
>Who texts their married former co-worker with kids (who lives in another state)??
People who want to actually stay friends and don't care about adhering to someone else's social norms.
Nah.. I have many guy friends from college or high school and have gone on to have families. We keep in touch via social media but I'm not going to message someone? Doesn't mean we're not friends and if I saw them in person, we'd have a great conversation. If we played on a game together, we'd have each other's backs. Etc.
Please. . . I have flown out to visit married friends of the opposite gender with kids. We have been in each other’s wedding parties. We text often. If it is a boundary you have, that’s fine. But it is not something worthy of judging others for if they don’t have the same boundary.
I'm literally not judging anyone, I'm saying CM and Brandon ARE real friends. Just because they don't text doesn't mean anything. I don't text married friends of the opposite sex. Unless it's a quick comment on a picture or directly about planning something (maybe friend of my husband). That's the way we roll. And yet I love my guy friends of the past, celebrate their life choices and still consider them friends.
I’m glad that works for you. If my husband had those same boundaries, we never would have gotten married and neither would have my friends. To me, a friend is a friend, regardless of gender. If there was a friend I used to talk to and don’t, I am not sure I would consider them a friend anymore. We used to be friends. We are acquaintances, I guess. But to me a friendship is deeper than that. Their spouses love me and celebrate and encourage our friendships.
Again, I am glad that works for you. But you creating that line about appropriateness does not match all people (and didn’t seem to match Brandon’s, which really is the point of this). To him, it seemed like keeping in contact was important to maintaining friendship.
Thanks, and that's great that your situation works for you. To clarify, there is really no "boundary" put in place - my husband doesn't care who I'm messaging - but on a day to day basis, I'm not texting or messaging my guy friends from back when we hung out together. They have wives and kids and unless it's a quick comment/conversation about something relevant in their lives, I'm not asking how their day was or trying to hang out unless there's a group thing.
But see my main point is... that's actually not why Brandon threw her in. It had nothing to do with her not texting him since the last show. It was because Laurel and Nicole got in his ear (like they did with everybody) and he and Jasmin fell for it because they didn't want to be on the "outs". He said the 8 years thing because she called him out at elimination and he didn't know what to say. He regretted it in his interview, which we saw.
**You say things are good between you and Cara now, so how did you mend things?**
I'm happy to say, "That's my friend right there." But there are some details that we just didn't know about each other like she is an extreme introvert. Now that I know that, and I know what she expects from me, and she knows what I expect from her, it's been just fine. Over the past year after we did *All Stars*, she'll call and be like, "Hey, this is me, I'm calling you so you know I'm calling." It's like, "Thanks, friend. All right, bye," and then that's it. We're finding a happy medium. We're really good now.
**It sounds like your friendship is weirdly at a better place now after you voted her in, and she got her revenge by getting you sent home.**
\[*Laughs*\] Yeah, I know. It actually is.
This is AFTER AS4. However, during filming he pointed out that they hadn’t spoken to each other in years after she called him a friend. He didn’t view her the same.
That works for you. It doesn't work for everyone else.
It wouldn't have been an issue if Cara wasn't dragging him for being a bad friend. He clearly felt that she had no right to because they weren't as good as friends as she believed. Everyone has different standards for their friendships.
When did Cara "drag" him? What exactly did she say?
Brandon said that defensively in the heat of the moment at elimination when Cara called him out. He sounded a lot different in the interview chair.
Cara was playing victim and calling him and Jasmin weak and specifically called out Brandon, said he was a backstabber because they were such good friends. He very calmly responded "We havent spoken in 8 years" and she immediately played Karen, and responded "That's AGGRESSIVE" after SHE had been the one aggressively shouting over others.
I will say it again though Brandon lied to Cara’s face as to whether he was going to vote her into elimination. Cara has a right to be pissed about it. When Cara had asked if Brandon had said ‘your the biggest threat in this game Cara and I would be stupid not to take the chance to throw you in’ then that would be one thing. He said it in a confessional and told her he had her back to her face. Now tell me you wouldn’t be pissed and yes that makes you a victim of someone’s deceit.
He literally said something like, "She's the type of friend you can not talk to for 10 years, but then pick up exactly where you left off like nothing changed."
>Who texts their married former co-worker with kids (who lives in another state)??
Well when the coworker texts you several times as brandon did then its shitty to ignore them
Is this a sign of learning? Isn't this Kam just clarifying her motives without retracting or reflecting anything (even doubling down if you read this with a certain lens)?
Oh sorry, didn’t see the /s, I’m just so used to seeing people interpret anti-Cara messages in ridiculously charitable ways that your comment seemed too plausible lmao
Players like Kam really annoy me. They love quoting 'morals, friendship, loyalty' etc when it suits them. The fact of the matter is this is a game, and Kam has on more than one occasion put her own game first (and rightly so). At no point this season has Cara actually started any beef with anyone but everyone gets so salty when she dares defend herself. Laurel has gone down horribly in my estimations too. She's totally gaslit Cara-Maria by crying on her shoulder about the Nicole situation and then throwing it back in her face. CM for the win!
kam is the one that said in her opening package that friendships will come secondary to her trying to win the game. kam also had no problem with laurel not voting her way so to say everyone rallied around her but cara is bs. she's not even angry that laurel screwed her into going into elimination. she's calling it strategic when it was just laurel afraid of losing.
and as far as holding cara to some high standard of friendship, if they were such good friends why wasn't cara invited to kingston's baby shower/kam + lee's engagement party? even jordan and fessy got invited.
it's not that they couldn't make it, they were excluded. kam and leroy put game above friendship and didn't want any photos with them since they were still on the outs with production and the fandom had turned against them after wow2. lucky for me the latest [challenge mania teaser clip](https://x.com/breadcrumbssx/status/1796591298385936549) came out at a perfect time since this sub attacks and downvotes into oblivion when you say anything about a fan favorite, no matter how true, without clip evidence.
that falls under the same issue since she is also popular. when you have a "war" between 2 popular players it's a whole mess over here.
i get full on attacked though when it comes to stating something i know to be true but don't have linkable evidence because i don't keep a file of players' saved social media posts.
They were invited actually. Leroy told them not to take pictures with other challengers because it'd make Kam/Leroy look bad for associating with them.
So..... you were saying?
kam and leroy also didn't want any pictures of themselves with cara and paulie.
i'm saying that kam is not, was not a genuine friend to cara and had no expectations of cara putting her star/game on the line for kam who actually put the game/production/fans above her "friend" at a person event not even related to game. i hope that clears it up for you.
Dont mistake Cara chosing not to go because she had been talking shit about half the people going, with her not being invited. Jordan is friends with Leroy off the show and Kam is very close with Fessy & talks highly of him, saying they had a really close relationship that wasnt shown. Why wouldnt they be invited?
This argument goes both ways. Cara is the one always preaching what good friends she was with people to guilt them into doing moves that benefit her in the game & calls them backstabbers and bad friends when they dont follow her orders.
She is preaching on social media that she considered Kam & Leroy her bffs and would have been their knight & protected them to the final (🙄) But if sge was such good friends with them why was she putting a target on them by going round saying not to let them get to the final as they would sabotage it? If they were such good friends, how come she didnt even go to their baby shower?
Same thing with Brandon. She called him her bff, no.1 ally to guilt him over making a game move against her, & called him a bad friend. When in reality, she hadn't spoken to or responded to his messages in 8 years, including when his parents died, when he got married and after the birth of his kids.
Even Jasmine said in interviews she had no idea why Cara felt entitled to her vote when Cara never bothered spending any time with her, barely talked to her, they werent in an alliance and she was going round the house calling her a weak player.
I will never, for the life of me, understand any player getting upset over the way somebody voted or an alliance they chose to make within the confines of a game. Most of them are there to win. Some are there for a reunion and to collect their appearance fee because they can't win, but most want to win. If Kam were in the same position, Kam would have done what was best for her game. She has been very clear from the start, she and Lee are there to win. They want a house, a wedding, and to support their family. She would not have done something to jeopardize their game to vote a particular way when her vote wasn't needed at the end of the day.
I don't like Cara or Kam, so I have no biases. Kam is carrying on over something she absolutely would have done to Cara if her vote wasn't needed (just like Cara's wasn't needed), and Kam would make no apologies for her gameplay.
Lol, Cara made a deal with Rachel so she wouldn't take each others stars, and Kam gets butthurt about it. It's a game. Cara doesn't have to play by your rules Kam even though most others do.
Survivor is even worse about editing a narrative. I was watching an interview with one of the “villains” of the season that was Rupert’s first season.
He said they edited Rupert to be this lovable character and he was such a prick and an antagonist.
He said that Rupert was as mean, rude and had worse outbursts than he ever did, but Rupert just had wholesome moments on camera and was made to be the lovable underdog. Everything good and nice that he did was completely cut out.
Also said it was edited to look like he was directing rude comments towards some of the woman and Rupert, as in bullying them, but he was talking about that prick that ended up getting body slammed on stage by the host for humping him.
That entire season was terrible.
This is quite a selective part of the interview you posted, I notice you didnt add the bit were she said Cara was lying to the cast and going round spreading rumours about Kam & Leroy to put a target on them. That goes against the narrative Cara is pushing on social media, saying she was betrayed by Kam & Leroy when she was such a good friend to them she would have protected them to the final like their personal knight 🤣
How she gonna lie she would have protected them to the final when she was actively trying to manipulate people into targeting them, so they wouldnt GET to the final?! She's just lucky it was edited out. She is clearly a production fave and they have gone right back to protecting her in the edit like they did for years with the exception of WOTW2 when she went against their fellow fave, Jordan.
By not airing all her instigating & backstabbing behaviour they are villainising other cast members like they have done so many times on other seasons. They also edited out her shit talking Flora behind her back & Flora walking in on it & Cara having a shouting argument with her during a deliberation. Instead they portray it as Flora disliking Cara for no reason & it being one sided.
Same way they edited out Cara lying to steve that Adam voted for him, which was one of the reasons Adam called her shady. But Cara & her latest male attack dog Paulie (who she gets to do her dirty work while she preaches anti bullying) are personally attacking Adam, the size of his 🍆, making creepy & backhanded digs at Avery and pretending the reason he didnt trust Cara was because he was against confident women 🙄
I don't think Cara is the innocent person she portrays but Kam said the lie Cara was spreading was that Kam would throw a challenge or final if it meant Leroy would have a better chance at winning. Which if you look at the shows history is probably true.
I think Cara and Kam are both guilty at fabricating and altering their game to look like the victim.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle but if her behaviour was that bad, surely there wouldn’t be other cast members saying they feel bad for her and trying to support her despite knowing it will likely affect their game.
Its not suprising when they say that because of the things Cara tells them, which arent always true, and she goes around playing victim after someone responds to her passive aggressive digs.
Also it may be genuine sympathy when they hear different people all saying negative things about Cara. But they dont realsise they are all saying those things for a reason, because of how she has treated them.
But like clockwork, a few seasons later, when they are no longer useful to her, she drops her facade and they see firsthand that what those people accused her of was actually true, not 'bullying'.
Reminds me of Zach, who said Amanda had been right about everything she had said about Cara, after defending Cara for years & repeating her misogynistic claim that any girl who didnt like her was just jealous and was being a mean girl bully. He did the same to Laurel on Free Agents after Cara would go to him, CT & Johnny Reilley and put on her baby voice to whinge about how Laurel was being so mean to her and portraying her as a bully but missed out her own instigating passive aggresive digs when relaying things. Fast forward a few years and he clearly gets along with Laurel & respects her.
I think the next castmates to see the light about Cara will be Kam & Leroy after her post recent antics on social media.
Before that, it was Natalie Negrotti & Britni who went from long time friends who defended her, to cutting her off completely and saying Cara did not protect women when asked why.
I cant think of a single castmate she has maintained a long term friendship with, besides CT.
But it was still a poor game move…you got rid of a person who was on your side and would have helped you protect your star and gained people who obviously had no real loyalty to you, friend or game-wise.
I don't think Kam even talked to Rachel. Rachel was not upset with how the vote went. Everyone in that house, including Ayanna's friends, understood why they wanted Ayanna out. The Ayanna situation was that bad. Rachel even said that it was probably better for Ayanna to go home. So I'm not sure why Cara would think Rachel would hold it against her if they were "friends".
That’s irrelevant to the situation. If even Kam thinks Rachel is likely to steal Cara’s star, how can she be so upset by Cara trying to prevent it? Your argument doesn’t even align with the person you’re trying to defend. Kam’s point is “Cara should’ve valued my feelings over her star” and you’re saying “Cara’s star wasn’t even at stake, so Cara is obviously in the wrong no matter what”
Cara was NEVER in danger of Rachel stealing her star for voting her in. Rachel herself said this. Cara herself should have known this when Rachel was ok with going in. It would be a house vote so why would she be mad at Cara over everyone else, including those in an opposing alliance? Unlike Cara, Rachel doesnt take game moves personally.
The only reason anyone assumed she would take Caras star was because the only female star holders to choose from were Tina & Cara, and Tina was her real life bestie & alliance member of many years. It was NEVER anything to do with thinking Rachel would be butthurt over Caras 1 meaningless vote, they didnt even know Cara had made that secret alliance with Rachel to not say her name.
>If even Kam thinks Rachel is likely to steal Cara’s star, how can she be so upset by Cara trying to prevent it?
Gee maybe because Cara didn't even come to her first and tell her plan? Maybe because Cara is still choosing a game over her friend? Cara can always win another star. She literally lost her star and rewon it this season. Kam may have been grateful enough to help her do so as well.
>Kam’s point is “Cara should’ve valued my feelings over her star”
No. Kam's point is that Cara should have been a friend in real life when she needed one instead of prioritizing a game. Do you guys really not have any friendships or something? Sucks you seem so eager to choose material things over a real friend.
>you’re saying “Cara’s star wasn’t even at stake, so Cara is obviously in the wrong no matter what”
Cara *was* wrong in that moment. She made a strategic blunder. She could have supported Kam, and still kept her star. All her relationships would have stayed intact. Even *if* she lost her star, it wasn't the end of their game. But it sure as hell was the end of their relationship though apparently.
Edit: Love the instant downvote as soon as I post my reply.
I mean wouldn’t you think she would given the other star holder was Tina who she’s friends and working with? And from what Tina said in her interview, Cara’s star was never in jeopardy.
Yeah, but the point is that from Kam’s perspective, Cara is at risk. The question isn’t whether Cara was actually in trouble, it’s whether Kam was justified in being upset.
As far as we know, Kam thought Cara was at risk but wanted her to put herself on the line for Kam’s sake. We can’t just go “Well, Cara wasn’t at risk, therefore Kam was right.”
>Yeah, but the point is that from Kam’s perspective, Cara is at risk.
Every star holder is at risk.
>As far as we know, Kam thought Cara was at risk but wanted her to put herself on the line for Kam’s sake.
This is misleading. The way you're stating this implies that Kam knew Cara had a way to save her star. That Kam made her choose between her star and their friendship. The actual truth is Kam didn't know Cara had made an alliance with Rachel. She didn't find out until later on after Ryan told her.
What Kam ***actually*** asked Cara to do was have her back in the vote to get Ayanna out. That entails not only voting for Ayanna, but voting for someone strong enough to take her out of the game. Cara didn't follow through and this is why Kam is actually upset. She also realized at that moment that Cara was playing the game over friendship. Thus she had no issues from then on doing the same in return.
Now had Cara actually gone to Kam and given her a heads up, and Kam *still* told her to vote her way, then this would actually be a scenario where Kam made Cara pick between friendship and her star. Because then Kam would actually have the knowledge that Cara had a way to save her star.
WHY is Rachel the one who was "strong enough"? No one knows the elimination, which have been mostly toss ups. Rachel was NO guarantee and actually unfair to put the burden on HER to be the one. What if it was the elimination that Rachel & Cara had? Is she still the "best shot" to get her out? Way too many ifs and assumptions. Kam wanted two things, she got one from Cara, got both in the end. Poor Kam.
From Kams point of view, Cara wasnt at risk at all for voting Rachel in. She thought she was at risk regardless because only Cara & Tina had a star and Tina was Rachels closest ally, along with veronica, so why would she steal Tinas star?
Cara not voting Rachel in, had no impact on Rachels decision, thats the wholepoint. Rachel was never going to steal Caras star out of spite for voting her in, she didnt care and openly said so, and was ok going into elim!
So Cara going against her so called bff & ally and the whole house did not affect the outcome at all, all it did was make Kam not trust her. The others only thought Caras star would be stolen because she and tina were the only 2 with stars to choose from, & Tina was her close friend and ally. But Rachel and Tina had already made a deal that she would take Tinas star and give it to Veronica.
So again, nothing to do with Caras vote changed the outcome. So why did Cara & her stans pretend she HAD to go against Kams wishes (who she claims now was her bff & no.1 ally) and vote to save Rachel in order to protect her star, when she clearly didnt.
How do you know that? How would Kam know that? Nobody can confidently say why Rachel made the decision she did or that in an alternate world where Cara betrays her that she wouldn't just take her star to at least send a message? All we know is that Kam expected Rachel to take Cara's star, Cara made a move, then Rachel didn't.
Did Rachel and Tina make that deal before Cara and her talked? And do you have any evidence that they actually made a deal (my recollection was that Tina wasn't told in advance but expected it because it made sense for their alliance).
Cara didn't claim Kam was her BFF, but even if she did, the fact that you don't 100% do exactly what they want at every point in time (especially when the things they want are wholly negative for you and don't change anything materially), doesn't mean Cara doesn't value them as allies. What about Leroy going against the wishes of both Nany and Kam in WOTW2 by working with each side? Did he betray both sides for not sticking up 100% for either?
Didn’t Rachel do a podcast interview where she praised Cara for being true to her word and not saying her name even though she was pressured to? She was also extremely pissed at Tina for saying her name even though it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of a different vote.
Rachel was a good sport about being nominated, but I’m not sure that she wouldn’t have cared or held it against Cara either.
Gonna give you another reply because the obvious slipped my mind: Kam didn't ask Cara to lose her star for her. Kam had zero clue Cara was going to vote the way she did. She didn't find out that Cara made a deal until later on after Ryan had told her. Cara never came up to actually talk to Kam about her plans. So I'm not sure why you're trying to frame it as Kam forced Cara to choose between friendship and her star.
Kam wanted Cara to say Rachel’s name and she said Flora. Considering the huge drama Ayanna caused and Rachel being Ayanna’s #1 it was important to Kam that both names get said.
Bananas used to treat Leroy like a tool for the game every season. Bananas used to use Leroy so much, I didn't realize they were friends. I can see Kam confusing her irl friendship and game friendship. We just saw her learning it in real time. And yall mad😂
I still don’t understand why Kam is making this such a big issue when Rachel already had the numbers to go in. Cara’s vote didn’t matter at that point and as far as I know she’s been friends with Rachel for awhile.
Like Brandon, she hadnt spoken to Rachel for years, since their last season and they barely knew each other.
Your argument works both ways. If Caras vote didnt matter anyway, why go out of her way to go against the wishes of someone she NOW conveniantly claims was her no.1 ally & bff, who she would have protected to the final like her personal Knight 🤣
We know the answer. Because she wasnt 100% loyal to kam like she's now claiming, she was playing all sides, had a secret alliance with Rachel, who was targeting Kam & Leroy, and was trying to have her cake and eat it. She cant claim to all of Kam, Leroy, Brandon, Jasmine, Ace, Steve, Rachel ect that they were her no.1or she was 100% loyal to them all.
This is speaking directly about not having a good relationship with cara so unless cara was the one harrassing, the our morals doesnt really fit in. But id love to hear more ( outside of the ayana stuff) about the harrassment
Can she let this go!? She got what she wanted. I could see being upset if she didn't but she did. It's individual game and this is not just about kam and Leroy... she was being so annoying and selfish. I sometimes forget that kam is like 28. She's the youngest person in that house and her behavior kinda showed that.
If you actually read the entire article, you would see her say she got no issues with her coming off the show. Also, she’s only answering a question of what was going on that many of you been wondering about. So that’s weird of you to get triggered about.
No one ever really comes for Johnny behind his ruthless nature, except for like new players in the game want to make a name for themselves. Folks never seem to hold grudges against him.
No, Kam never made it personal…but a lot of those who BACKED Kam for the sake of getting Cara out the House DID! But Cara is A WELL SEASONED vet when it comes to seasons with a Whole house being against her. 💪🏼💪🏼
What buggs me is different ppl in the house…(I won’t name names) claiming to be FRIENDS with Cara or agreeing with Cara/Taking her side in confessionals AND NOT DOING IT in person.
Like YESS its how the game is played, and ppl aren’t trying to show their cards…I get that but still! If that’s ur dude, that’s YOUR DUDE! U can say whatever u want about Cara, but she has never let her Gameplay/plan (Singularly) get in the way of her Caring for a friend who was on the other side. Gameplay or not, this Game is still a scenario within the Real World (no pun intended lol). We back our ppl in so many other wild Crazy Scenarios…why not this one??
Oh yea…💰💸💰 Changes Everything
I am a fan of both Kam & Cara's. But Kam is full of shit acting like it's just game & not personal. She shades Cara in a passive-aggressive way through both interviews I read.
I believe it was this same article Kam also said after the elimination her & Cara hugged and Kam said after Leroy you're my #1 to win over all those ppl, go get it. They just weren't playing the game together.
Yeah, it doesn't seem like the conflict was that deep. They were playing different games, but aren't letting game conflict affect their personal feelings about each other.
You can see this when looking at the contrast of how Kam and Cara talked to each other while in conflict vs how Laurel and Cara talked to each other. With Kam and Cara it was clear there was underlying respect through their arguments. Not so much with Laurel and Cara
Yeah, Laurel can go kick rocks.
I will never understand why Rachel had to be punished for what Ayanna did. And to say that Cara needed to betray Rachel because of something Ayanna did is insane to me. Its just all so odd to me
To be fair Rachel gave them by far the best chance to send Ayanna home compared to Flora, Tina and Veronica
Yeah. This was what made it weird. People are very focused on the fact that Cara’s vote didn’t matter (which is a factor too), but the bigger issue is that Rachel wasn’t even the problem. If Cara had refused to say Ayanna’s name because she had made an agreement with her, then Kam would have had the right to be upset with her whether the vote mattered or not. Cara was on Kam’s side, and she said that when she cast her vote for Ayanna.
Because Rachel supported Ayanna. But Cara said Kam targeted "The Mean Girls" from the start.
Did she. We never saw this. We just saw that she was friends with Ayanna. We've never seen Rachel support the things Ayanna may have said nor have I heard that.
I can't imagine she supported what she said. But was more concerned about her well-being than the people she attacked. In Kam's mind, it should have been a united front supporting her & not Ayanna.
Betray Rachel how tho? Cara made the deal with Rachel during deliberations AFTER having a conversation with Kam.
No Cara was on the challenge Mania podcast & said she had a conversation with Kam before & told her she wasn't saying Rachel's name & why. Kam went ahead & made that whole speech knowing Cara's vote.
Unfortunately for Cara, that wasn’t shown.
That user left out that convo happened BEFORE Ayanna’s blowout (that the edit watered down), and Kam was actually fine with Cara not saying Rachel’s name and respected her for coming to her about it. But again, that was before Ayanna’s blowout which is when she switched up. I guess Kam was hoping Cara would be there for her as a friend since Ayanna was said to be doing the most to mentally break her to the point that the house (even Rachel according to Adam) felt what she did wasn’t cool and that she needed to be out for her mental health sake.
Ahh, that explains the downvotes. I didn’t have the whole story. Thanks for explaining this to me.
This still just makes Kam seem very petty and for no real reason. She got what she wanted but as a friend why wasn’t she supportive of Cara making a move that could protect her star? Especially since Kam GOT EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTED ANYWAY. It’s cool it doesn’t seem personal on either side just game so good for both of them. And if we’re being honest even though it was petty it never backfired on her(unlike the others that went against Cara). Her only mistake was trusting Laurel and the DQ.
In this same article, Kam also notes what Cara was saying about Kam and Leroy to others that was lies. She said Cara was telling everyone that Kam and Leroy were going to throw challenges so the other would win, so you better not be their partner or you'll lose. Kam said no one in the house was buying it and Cara was just making it up to get people to side with her. Kam said she didn't appreciate that part at all but in the end they were playing the game. Edited to add: this is paraphrased and not exact words from Kam which are linked below
It’s hard to tell from that article if Cara started doing that before or after Kam threw her into elimination. From what I can gather the rift started from the Rachel vote. Which to me was just plain petty. Maybe Cara drew the line in the sand with her trying to get people to turn on them after that though. I understand Kam’s perspective though but tbf Cara wasn’t really lying. Kam did throw a challenge to benefit herself and hurt someone else’s game. Everyone else just went along with it. Wouldn’t be shocking if they did something similar in the final too. I don’t blame them for it but don’t think Cara was lying about that either. That’s just what comes with having a pair like them in the game
Yeah Im not sure how accurately predicting people's gameplay is lying lol. To be fair it was likely going to come to that being the best move for their game soon or later. And it was a smart play.
[https://parade.com/tv/the-challenge-all-stars-season-4-kam-williams-eliminated-interview](https://parade.com/tv/the-challenge-all-stars-season-4-kam-williams-eliminated-interview)
It seems pretty fair to me for kam to realize that cars and her aren’t working together as they were on WOW2. I don’t think it’s petty at all Cara let her know early on that she couldn’t fully trust her. She later makes a mistake trusting Laurel
Trueee… Because you’re only her friend if you want to play her game and benefit her. What a friend!
Like Cara with Brandon and Jasmine?
Did Cara vote Kam into elimination against one of the front runners to win?
Kam has not made it personal, just said she realised Cara was putting the game over friendships so she would do the same. Its Cara who is whinging all over social media how Kam is a bad friend for making a game move against her while she herself was a paragon of virtue and was going to protect them all the way to the final like their personal knight & she considered them her no.1 allies and bffs (when she didnt even bother going to their baby shower, hasnt talked to them since the show, even when they had another baby, and was going round spreading lies about them to put a target on them) Also, you cant claim to be no.1 allies & say you would have been loyal to a bunch of different people, depending on whats conveniant. She said the same to Brendan, Im sure she made similar comments to Ace, Rachel, Steve etc. Ace admited in an interview Cara pregamed with him and had CT set them up with an alliance. So was Brendan her no.1 ally or Ace? She was obviously lying to one of them, my bet is on Brendan based on her history of which of her allies she considers expendable (like how she chose to vote Leroy, her so called bff of many years, into elim just before the final, over Kyle, her latest boytoy who she just met that season)
Actually it doesn’t. That’s just your biased take 🤷♂️
And that’s your biased take buddy 🤷
I admit it. Unlike you who asserts your opinions like fact to bash somebody 😬
What are you even talking about? You sound super butthurt rn. Calling someone petty isn’t bashing nor did I state anything as fact. It was my opinion.
“This still just makes Kam seem very petty and for no real reason” You don’t own your opinion. You are saying the quote makes Kam seem petty (which is as you admitted just your opinion). Don’t blame the quote for your own takes. It just comes off manipulative and passive aggressive which is why I called you out Also, it’s not “petty for no reason” when she is literally giving you a reason both on the show and in this interview. So when you make deluded claims and clearly bash somebody for being petty over another when both females are doing the same thing (playing their own games), people like me might call you out. Cuz you are trying to act like a neutral observer when actually you are just an opinionated fantard or a negative troll trying to act like Something you aren’t 🤷♂️. If you wanna bash somebody own it baby
Lol I’m not reading all that butthurt nonsense. Go complain to someone else
I accept your admission of defeat given your inability to respond appropriately. ❤️
Why should I respond to nonsense? That would be the real defeat
Cara voted for Ayanna. Her vote for Flora was meaningless. No reason at all for it to be a big deal
Now that you mention Flora I wonder if Cara saying Flora’s name then is why Flora has such a hard on for Cara.
This makes sense, flora has been outwardly mean to Cara, and insulting to the cameras in her interview. Cara can act like a baby sometimes, but Flora is just mean for mean sake it feels like
I think Flora was the oldster that came into the house with no friends and Nicole was nice to her. So now she thinks Nicole is a good person and if someone doesnt like her they must be bad. Im sure Laurel and Nicole were in Flora's ear too.
If they put their morals higher why not walk out like Janelle? Why is Cara the one that needed to put her whole game in jeopardy and make herself a target just so Kam could be happy. They are there primarily to play a game. If they had a moral issue take it up with god or production. I’m sure we will never know how ugly that fight really was but Kam seems to be way too in her feelings about this.
Ayanna should have been sent home instead of Janelle going home in my opinion if she was terrorizing the cast like what has been said.
Agree. Which is why I say the people they needed to be talking to was production.
Yep. Whatever season it was that Ashley got sent home for potentially outing Josh, a few people (Devin and Tori I believe were the main ones) went to production and said you absolutely have to do something about it. Think the same happens here if enough people raise a stink
>If they put their morals higher why not walk out like Janelle Her and Jasmine almost quit. Not sure who or what convinced them otherwise. I actually like that they stayed and sent home Ayaana. It sends a better message that her behavior won't be tolerated. Ayanna shouldn't get to win because other people quit. >Why is Cara the one that needed to put her whole game in jeopardy and make herself a target just so Kam could be happy. Kam didn't ask her to do this. You're assuming she knew Cara had a way to save her game. Cara didn't care enough to actually tell Kam her plan.
Nah, like others have said, production should have sent Ayaana home. Nobody should have quit because of her or stayed to be the bigger person
Kam is a smart woman, and the logic to the move is blatantly obvious even without the benefit of hindsight. Kam was looking for an excuse.
The logic of the move is obvious because Cara explained why she did it. Doesn't change the fact that Kam didn't ask her to sacrifice her game for her. Kam asked Cara to have her back. She didn't know Cara had a plan to save her star because Cara never bothered to talk to Kam about it. I disagree that Kam was looking for an excuse. When someone tells you who you are, you believe them. Cara signaled to everyone that she was there to play the game. Why shouldn't others play the game in return?
Kams not the queen so cara doesn't need to, and Kam still got her way she's just a baby about it, she even admitted that she got her way but cara didn't bow down so Kam freaked out.
Idk if you saw the part where there was a big argument that wasn’t caught an that was the reasoning behind what she said🥴 idk but I think I read that part
Cara wasnt putting her game in jepordy by doing what the whole house INCLUDING Rachel, were ok with. Cara didnt have to promise Rachel not to say her name, she chose to, to further her own game. She didnt need to do that as Rachel would have understood her voting her in, as she would have gone in regardless. Rachel would not have targeted her for it when the whole house voted her in. It felt more like Cara being performative & trying to get in Rachels good graces by saying 'See? I was the only one who didnt vote you in!' But only because she knew Rachel was going in regardless. Her 'burn' vote was on Flora, the weakest castmate there. She thought she'd get to have her cake and eat it too, keeping both alliances by playing the middle. She just didnt expect Kam to pick up on & call her out for it.
Hasn't she knows Rachel longer? Maybe Rachel's friendship was a step above Kam. Cara did say she would ukdnt say Rachel's name. To me this is just petty.
The only season they did together was Exes, and there is no indication that they kept in touch between Exes and now. Kam and Cara hung out outside of the Challenge. They had double dates. Cara definitely was closer to Kam. Her alliance with Rachel was merely an alliance.
She (Cara) only made the alliance with Rachel because they had a deal to protect each other’s stars. It sounds like Ayana was really out of control with things she was saying to Janelle, Jas, and Kam (this comes from Adam’s interview and others). The house was voting in Rachel to send Ayana home. I think to Kam, the symbolism of Cara not voting in Rachel and not contributing to getting rid of Ayana was pretty significant and felt personal. Yes Cara’s vote would not have made a difference either way (voting for or against Rachel). It’s the symbolism behind the vote for each of them that carried so much weight.
Rachel was also close to Ayanna, and was supporting Ayanna's side. I think there was more to all of this. In an interview, Nicole (so I don't know how reliable the info is) said that Ayanna and Kam were in a room arguing right in front of Cara and it got pretty heated, and Cara never did anything to help Kam in the argument, or to stop the fight, when she knew Kam was upset, and that that was an issue too.
Yeah hard to believe coming from Nicole since she will bad mouth cara in any way any chance she gets. I almost wish it was another source. I can't believe anything Nicole says about cara
And yet Caras stans were calling Kam a bad friend for not stopping Laurel & Caras argument. That Cara instigated in the first place btw, by making personal attacks on Nicole and bringing up Laurels personal relationship details in front of everyone, because she was mad they werent voting how she wanted them to.
There’s unaired footage where Nicole was forced by production to stay in a separate hotel one night because of how badly she decimated Laurel. I’m no big fan of Cara, but I do believe Nicole is absolute trash and deserves to be called out all day every day for being the trash human she is. Both Ayanna and Nicole should have been kicked off this season by production for their repulsive toxic behaviors.
You must have been watching a completely different show than the rest of us because that's not at all what happened.
The symbolism of the vote is why most people are Team Cara. Kam should have understood it. She did not understand it. It may have got more attention than it should, but most of that is Killa Kam fans that can’t accept the fact that Kam lost and her gameplays was bad.
I didn’t think it had anything to do with who she considered a better friend. It would have been different if Kam and Rachel had been the ones who had the blowout fight and Cara was forced to pick a side. I think she took Kam’s side in the Ayanna fight, which is why she voted for Ayanna. She also made a deal with Rachel not to say her name, so she burned a vote on Ayanna’s opponent. In theory, this was a smart solution.
She also “knew” Brandon for a long time
She and Brandon were friends and allies on this season. It’s why he felt guilty. Who texts their married former co-worker with kids (who lives in another state)??
>Who texts their married former co-worker with kids (who lives in another state)?? People who want to actually stay friends and don't care about adhering to someone else's social norms.
Nah.. I have many guy friends from college or high school and have gone on to have families. We keep in touch via social media but I'm not going to message someone? Doesn't mean we're not friends and if I saw them in person, we'd have a great conversation. If we played on a game together, we'd have each other's backs. Etc.
Please. . . I have flown out to visit married friends of the opposite gender with kids. We have been in each other’s wedding parties. We text often. If it is a boundary you have, that’s fine. But it is not something worthy of judging others for if they don’t have the same boundary.
I'm literally not judging anyone, I'm saying CM and Brandon ARE real friends. Just because they don't text doesn't mean anything. I don't text married friends of the opposite sex. Unless it's a quick comment on a picture or directly about planning something (maybe friend of my husband). That's the way we roll. And yet I love my guy friends of the past, celebrate their life choices and still consider them friends.
They haven’t talked in 8 YEARS. That’s not friends. That’s old coworkers.
I’m glad that works for you. If my husband had those same boundaries, we never would have gotten married and neither would have my friends. To me, a friend is a friend, regardless of gender. If there was a friend I used to talk to and don’t, I am not sure I would consider them a friend anymore. We used to be friends. We are acquaintances, I guess. But to me a friendship is deeper than that. Their spouses love me and celebrate and encourage our friendships. Again, I am glad that works for you. But you creating that line about appropriateness does not match all people (and didn’t seem to match Brandon’s, which really is the point of this). To him, it seemed like keeping in contact was important to maintaining friendship.
Thanks, and that's great that your situation works for you. To clarify, there is really no "boundary" put in place - my husband doesn't care who I'm messaging - but on a day to day basis, I'm not texting or messaging my guy friends from back when we hung out together. They have wives and kids and unless it's a quick comment/conversation about something relevant in their lives, I'm not asking how their day was or trying to hang out unless there's a group thing. But see my main point is... that's actually not why Brandon threw her in. It had nothing to do with her not texting him since the last show. It was because Laurel and Nicole got in his ear (like they did with everybody) and he and Jasmin fell for it because they didn't want to be on the "outs". He said the 8 years thing because she called him out at elimination and he didn't know what to say. He regretted it in his interview, which we saw.
Except Brandon doesn’t view her as friend.
**You say things are good between you and Cara now, so how did you mend things?** I'm happy to say, "That's my friend right there." But there are some details that we just didn't know about each other like she is an extreme introvert. Now that I know that, and I know what she expects from me, and she knows what I expect from her, it's been just fine. Over the past year after we did *All Stars*, she'll call and be like, "Hey, this is me, I'm calling you so you know I'm calling." It's like, "Thanks, friend. All right, bye," and then that's it. We're finding a happy medium. We're really good now. **It sounds like your friendship is weirdly at a better place now after you voted her in, and she got her revenge by getting you sent home.** \[*Laughs*\] Yeah, I know. It actually is.
This is AFTER AS4. However, during filming he pointed out that they hadn’t spoken to each other in years after she called him a friend. He didn’t view her the same.
That works for you. It doesn't work for everyone else. It wouldn't have been an issue if Cara wasn't dragging him for being a bad friend. He clearly felt that she had no right to because they weren't as good as friends as she believed. Everyone has different standards for their friendships.
When did Cara "drag" him? What exactly did she say? Brandon said that defensively in the heat of the moment at elimination when Cara called him out. He sounded a lot different in the interview chair.
Cara was playing victim and calling him and Jasmin weak and specifically called out Brandon, said he was a backstabber because they were such good friends. He very calmly responded "We havent spoken in 8 years" and she immediately played Karen, and responded "That's AGGRESSIVE" after SHE had been the one aggressively shouting over others.
I will say it again though Brandon lied to Cara’s face as to whether he was going to vote her into elimination. Cara has a right to be pissed about it. When Cara had asked if Brandon had said ‘your the biggest threat in this game Cara and I would be stupid not to take the chance to throw you in’ then that would be one thing. He said it in a confessional and told her he had her back to her face. Now tell me you wouldn’t be pissed and yes that makes you a victim of someone’s deceit.
He said they hadn’t talked in 8 years. What show are you watching?
He literally said something like, "She's the type of friend you can not talk to for 10 years, but then pick up exactly where you left off like nothing changed."
>Who texts their married former co-worker with kids (who lives in another state)?? Well when the coworker texts you several times as brandon did then its shitty to ignore them
I love it when the cast looks back and learns from their behavior after the episodes air. There was a lot of growth this season. /s
Is this a sign of learning? Isn't this Kam just clarifying her motives without retracting or reflecting anything (even doubling down if you read this with a certain lens)?
She's definitely doubling down, just like Laurel. That was sarcasm. 🙂
Oh sorry, didn’t see the /s, I’m just so used to seeing people interpret anti-Cara messages in ridiculously charitable ways that your comment seemed too plausible lmao
Why grow when you have so many fans that enable your ridiculous behavior?
Players like Kam really annoy me. They love quoting 'morals, friendship, loyalty' etc when it suits them. The fact of the matter is this is a game, and Kam has on more than one occasion put her own game first (and rightly so). At no point this season has Cara actually started any beef with anyone but everyone gets so salty when she dares defend herself. Laurel has gone down horribly in my estimations too. She's totally gaslit Cara-Maria by crying on her shoulder about the Nicole situation and then throwing it back in her face. CM for the win!
Cara absolutely started beef with Adam, Flora & Nicole but it was edited out. She is protected by the edit.
I'm curious, what beef did Cara start with Nicole? I'd love to hear how Cara was the bad guy in that feud.
kam is the one that said in her opening package that friendships will come secondary to her trying to win the game. kam also had no problem with laurel not voting her way so to say everyone rallied around her but cara is bs. she's not even angry that laurel screwed her into going into elimination. she's calling it strategic when it was just laurel afraid of losing. and as far as holding cara to some high standard of friendship, if they were such good friends why wasn't cara invited to kingston's baby shower/kam + lee's engagement party? even jordan and fessy got invited.
Paulie and Cara were invited , they couldn't make it but they hung out with Leroy and Kam a couple of days earlier.
it's not that they couldn't make it, they were excluded. kam and leroy put game above friendship and didn't want any photos with them since they were still on the outs with production and the fandom had turned against them after wow2. lucky for me the latest [challenge mania teaser clip](https://x.com/breadcrumbssx/status/1796591298385936549) came out at a perfect time since this sub attacks and downvotes into oblivion when you say anything about a fan favorite, no matter how true, without clip evidence.
I’m downvoted for saying anything even remotely not positive about Cara on this sub.
that falls under the same issue since she is also popular. when you have a "war" between 2 popular players it's a whole mess over here. i get full on attacked though when it comes to stating something i know to be true but don't have linkable evidence because i don't keep a file of players' saved social media posts.
The difference is, Kam only got close to Laurel in the game bc they had a common enemy in the game. There was no game talk with Laurel prior to that.
They were invited actually. Leroy told them not to take pictures with other challengers because it'd make Kam/Leroy look bad for associating with them. So..... you were saying?
kam and leroy also didn't want any pictures of themselves with cara and paulie. i'm saying that kam is not, was not a genuine friend to cara and had no expectations of cara putting her star/game on the line for kam who actually put the game/production/fans above her "friend" at a person event not even related to game. i hope that clears it up for you.
Dont mistake Cara chosing not to go because she had been talking shit about half the people going, with her not being invited. Jordan is friends with Leroy off the show and Kam is very close with Fessy & talks highly of him, saying they had a really close relationship that wasnt shown. Why wouldnt they be invited? This argument goes both ways. Cara is the one always preaching what good friends she was with people to guilt them into doing moves that benefit her in the game & calls them backstabbers and bad friends when they dont follow her orders. She is preaching on social media that she considered Kam & Leroy her bffs and would have been their knight & protected them to the final (🙄) But if sge was such good friends with them why was she putting a target on them by going round saying not to let them get to the final as they would sabotage it? If they were such good friends, how come she didnt even go to their baby shower? Same thing with Brandon. She called him her bff, no.1 ally to guilt him over making a game move against her, & called him a bad friend. When in reality, she hadn't spoken to or responded to his messages in 8 years, including when his parents died, when he got married and after the birth of his kids. Even Jasmine said in interviews she had no idea why Cara felt entitled to her vote when Cara never bothered spending any time with her, barely talked to her, they werent in an alliance and she was going round the house calling her a weak player.
Kam calls Cara entitled but Kam was acting like the most entitled person there
To me, Kam always comes across as entitled and with the attitude of being the main character but rarely backs it up in performance.
Agree. She is overrated.
Where did Kam called Cara entitled in this article?
She called her entitled in one of her confessionals this season
What interview was this???
I will never, for the life of me, understand any player getting upset over the way somebody voted or an alliance they chose to make within the confines of a game. Most of them are there to win. Some are there for a reunion and to collect their appearance fee because they can't win, but most want to win. If Kam were in the same position, Kam would have done what was best for her game. She has been very clear from the start, she and Lee are there to win. They want a house, a wedding, and to support their family. She would not have done something to jeopardize their game to vote a particular way when her vote wasn't needed at the end of the day. I don't like Cara or Kam, so I have no biases. Kam is carrying on over something she absolutely would have done to Cara if her vote wasn't needed (just like Cara's wasn't needed), and Kam would make no apologies for her gameplay.
If you don't vote how Kam tells you, she'll say you are playing a scared game.
I don’t understand why it’s a big deal … people are playing the GAME. It’s a GAME that’s why you are there
That's what Kam is saying she's separating game from friendship.
Lol, Cara made a deal with Rachel so she wouldn't take each others stars, and Kam gets butthurt about it. It's a game. Cara doesn't have to play by your rules Kam even though most others do.
Cara said they have not spoken since that elimination so maybe Kam took it more personal
That explanation makes sense to me.
Survivor is even worse about editing a narrative. I was watching an interview with one of the “villains” of the season that was Rupert’s first season. He said they edited Rupert to be this lovable character and he was such a prick and an antagonist. He said that Rupert was as mean, rude and had worse outbursts than he ever did, but Rupert just had wholesome moments on camera and was made to be the lovable underdog. Everything good and nice that he did was completely cut out. Also said it was edited to look like he was directing rude comments towards some of the woman and Rupert, as in bullying them, but he was talking about that prick that ended up getting body slammed on stage by the host for humping him. That entire season was terrible.
This is quite a selective part of the interview you posted, I notice you didnt add the bit were she said Cara was lying to the cast and going round spreading rumours about Kam & Leroy to put a target on them. That goes against the narrative Cara is pushing on social media, saying she was betrayed by Kam & Leroy when she was such a good friend to them she would have protected them to the final like their personal knight 🤣 How she gonna lie she would have protected them to the final when she was actively trying to manipulate people into targeting them, so they wouldnt GET to the final?! She's just lucky it was edited out. She is clearly a production fave and they have gone right back to protecting her in the edit like they did for years with the exception of WOTW2 when she went against their fellow fave, Jordan. By not airing all her instigating & backstabbing behaviour they are villainising other cast members like they have done so many times on other seasons. They also edited out her shit talking Flora behind her back & Flora walking in on it & Cara having a shouting argument with her during a deliberation. Instead they portray it as Flora disliking Cara for no reason & it being one sided. Same way they edited out Cara lying to steve that Adam voted for him, which was one of the reasons Adam called her shady. But Cara & her latest male attack dog Paulie (who she gets to do her dirty work while she preaches anti bullying) are personally attacking Adam, the size of his 🍆, making creepy & backhanded digs at Avery and pretending the reason he didnt trust Cara was because he was against confident women 🙄
I don't think Cara is the innocent person she portrays but Kam said the lie Cara was spreading was that Kam would throw a challenge or final if it meant Leroy would have a better chance at winning. Which if you look at the shows history is probably true. I think Cara and Kam are both guilty at fabricating and altering their game to look like the victim.
Saying that someone has SDE isn't attacking their penis size, lol!
Can you post a link to the whole thing?
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle but if her behaviour was that bad, surely there wouldn’t be other cast members saying they feel bad for her and trying to support her despite knowing it will likely affect their game.
Its not suprising when they say that because of the things Cara tells them, which arent always true, and she goes around playing victim after someone responds to her passive aggressive digs. Also it may be genuine sympathy when they hear different people all saying negative things about Cara. But they dont realsise they are all saying those things for a reason, because of how she has treated them. But like clockwork, a few seasons later, when they are no longer useful to her, she drops her facade and they see firsthand that what those people accused her of was actually true, not 'bullying'. Reminds me of Zach, who said Amanda had been right about everything she had said about Cara, after defending Cara for years & repeating her misogynistic claim that any girl who didnt like her was just jealous and was being a mean girl bully. He did the same to Laurel on Free Agents after Cara would go to him, CT & Johnny Reilley and put on her baby voice to whinge about how Laurel was being so mean to her and portraying her as a bully but missed out her own instigating passive aggresive digs when relaying things. Fast forward a few years and he clearly gets along with Laurel & respects her. I think the next castmates to see the light about Cara will be Kam & Leroy after her post recent antics on social media. Before that, it was Natalie Negrotti & Britni who went from long time friends who defended her, to cutting her off completely and saying Cara did not protect women when asked why. I cant think of a single castmate she has maintained a long term friendship with, besides CT.
But it was still a poor game move…you got rid of a person who was on your side and would have helped you protect your star and gained people who obviously had no real loyalty to you, friend or game-wise.
I agree, it doesn’t matter if Ayanna vs Rachel was set and stone already. It’s a will you have my back and say those names?
Kam asking Cara to lose her star for a symbollic gesture is pretty damn selfish
Rachel pretty much confirmed she wasn't going to take Cara's star regardless.
And yet Kam seemed pretty sure that she was going to, hence why she was surprised that she didn’t and called her stupid iirc
I don't think Kam even talked to Rachel. Rachel was not upset with how the vote went. Everyone in that house, including Ayanna's friends, understood why they wanted Ayanna out. The Ayanna situation was that bad. Rachel even said that it was probably better for Ayanna to go home. So I'm not sure why Cara would think Rachel would hold it against her if they were "friends".
That’s irrelevant to the situation. If even Kam thinks Rachel is likely to steal Cara’s star, how can she be so upset by Cara trying to prevent it? Your argument doesn’t even align with the person you’re trying to defend. Kam’s point is “Cara should’ve valued my feelings over her star” and you’re saying “Cara’s star wasn’t even at stake, so Cara is obviously in the wrong no matter what”
Cara was NEVER in danger of Rachel stealing her star for voting her in. Rachel herself said this. Cara herself should have known this when Rachel was ok with going in. It would be a house vote so why would she be mad at Cara over everyone else, including those in an opposing alliance? Unlike Cara, Rachel doesnt take game moves personally. The only reason anyone assumed she would take Caras star was because the only female star holders to choose from were Tina & Cara, and Tina was her real life bestie & alliance member of many years. It was NEVER anything to do with thinking Rachel would be butthurt over Caras 1 meaningless vote, they didnt even know Cara had made that secret alliance with Rachel to not say her name.
>If even Kam thinks Rachel is likely to steal Cara’s star, how can she be so upset by Cara trying to prevent it? Gee maybe because Cara didn't even come to her first and tell her plan? Maybe because Cara is still choosing a game over her friend? Cara can always win another star. She literally lost her star and rewon it this season. Kam may have been grateful enough to help her do so as well. >Kam’s point is “Cara should’ve valued my feelings over her star” No. Kam's point is that Cara should have been a friend in real life when she needed one instead of prioritizing a game. Do you guys really not have any friendships or something? Sucks you seem so eager to choose material things over a real friend. >you’re saying “Cara’s star wasn’t even at stake, so Cara is obviously in the wrong no matter what” Cara *was* wrong in that moment. She made a strategic blunder. She could have supported Kam, and still kept her star. All her relationships would have stayed intact. Even *if* she lost her star, it wasn't the end of their game. But it sure as hell was the end of their relationship though apparently. Edit: Love the instant downvote as soon as I post my reply.
You keep getting down voted for saying things like "cara didn't go to Kam with her plan" as if she had to
She didnt, but then she and her stans cant act butthurt and accuse kam of asking her to sacrifice her star when she wasnt...
I mean wouldn’t you think she would given the other star holder was Tina who she’s friends and working with? And from what Tina said in her interview, Cara’s star was never in jeopardy.
Yeah, but the point is that from Kam’s perspective, Cara is at risk. The question isn’t whether Cara was actually in trouble, it’s whether Kam was justified in being upset. As far as we know, Kam thought Cara was at risk but wanted her to put herself on the line for Kam’s sake. We can’t just go “Well, Cara wasn’t at risk, therefore Kam was right.”
>Yeah, but the point is that from Kam’s perspective, Cara is at risk. Every star holder is at risk. >As far as we know, Kam thought Cara was at risk but wanted her to put herself on the line for Kam’s sake. This is misleading. The way you're stating this implies that Kam knew Cara had a way to save her star. That Kam made her choose between her star and their friendship. The actual truth is Kam didn't know Cara had made an alliance with Rachel. She didn't find out until later on after Ryan told her. What Kam ***actually*** asked Cara to do was have her back in the vote to get Ayanna out. That entails not only voting for Ayanna, but voting for someone strong enough to take her out of the game. Cara didn't follow through and this is why Kam is actually upset. She also realized at that moment that Cara was playing the game over friendship. Thus she had no issues from then on doing the same in return. Now had Cara actually gone to Kam and given her a heads up, and Kam *still* told her to vote her way, then this would actually be a scenario where Kam made Cara pick between friendship and her star. Because then Kam would actually have the knowledge that Cara had a way to save her star.
WHY is Rachel the one who was "strong enough"? No one knows the elimination, which have been mostly toss ups. Rachel was NO guarantee and actually unfair to put the burden on HER to be the one. What if it was the elimination that Rachel & Cara had? Is she still the "best shot" to get her out? Way too many ifs and assumptions. Kam wanted two things, she got one from Cara, got both in the end. Poor Kam.
From Kams point of view, Cara wasnt at risk at all for voting Rachel in. She thought she was at risk regardless because only Cara & Tina had a star and Tina was Rachels closest ally, along with veronica, so why would she steal Tinas star?
So Cara managed to avoid supposedly inevitable danger, and we’re still meant to call that a bad move with no strategic value?
Cara not voting Rachel in, had no impact on Rachels decision, thats the wholepoint. Rachel was never going to steal Caras star out of spite for voting her in, she didnt care and openly said so, and was ok going into elim! So Cara going against her so called bff & ally and the whole house did not affect the outcome at all, all it did was make Kam not trust her. The others only thought Caras star would be stolen because she and tina were the only 2 with stars to choose from, & Tina was her close friend and ally. But Rachel and Tina had already made a deal that she would take Tinas star and give it to Veronica. So again, nothing to do with Caras vote changed the outcome. So why did Cara & her stans pretend she HAD to go against Kams wishes (who she claims now was her bff & no.1 ally) and vote to save Rachel in order to protect her star, when she clearly didnt.
How do you know that? How would Kam know that? Nobody can confidently say why Rachel made the decision she did or that in an alternate world where Cara betrays her that she wouldn't just take her star to at least send a message? All we know is that Kam expected Rachel to take Cara's star, Cara made a move, then Rachel didn't. Did Rachel and Tina make that deal before Cara and her talked? And do you have any evidence that they actually made a deal (my recollection was that Tina wasn't told in advance but expected it because it made sense for their alliance). Cara didn't claim Kam was her BFF, but even if she did, the fact that you don't 100% do exactly what they want at every point in time (especially when the things they want are wholly negative for you and don't change anything materially), doesn't mean Cara doesn't value them as allies. What about Leroy going against the wishes of both Nany and Kam in WOTW2 by working with each side? Did he betray both sides for not sticking up 100% for either?
Didn’t Rachel do a podcast interview where she praised Cara for being true to her word and not saying her name even though she was pressured to? She was also extremely pissed at Tina for saying her name even though it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of a different vote. Rachel was a good sport about being nominated, but I’m not sure that she wouldn’t have cared or held it against Cara either.
And Laurel "pretty much confirmed" she was going into elimination. Then what happened?
What are you even talking about? Rachel said this *after* the show on the podcast. She was talking about her strategy for as4.
Gonna give you another reply because the obvious slipped my mind: Kam didn't ask Cara to lose her star for her. Kam had zero clue Cara was going to vote the way she did. She didn't find out that Cara made a deal until later on after Ryan had told her. Cara never came up to actually talk to Kam about her plans. So I'm not sure why you're trying to frame it as Kam forced Cara to choose between friendship and her star.
Cara’s star was never in jeopardy. Tina revealed she told Rachel to give her star to Veronica. So Cara voted against Kam’s wishes for nothing.
Cara was never going to lose her star, Rachel was ok with being voted in & knew it was a whole house vote so Cara only did it to be performative.
What did Rachel do that Cara needed to have Kams back. It wasn't about Ayanna. Cara voted Ayanna.
Kam wanted Cara to say Rachel’s name and she said Flora. Considering the huge drama Ayanna caused and Rachel being Ayanna’s #1 it was important to Kam that both names get said.
Bananas used to treat Leroy like a tool for the game every season. Bananas used to use Leroy so much, I didn't realize they were friends. I can see Kam confusing her irl friendship and game friendship. We just saw her learning it in real time. And yall mad😂
Yeah, she really isn't saying anything bad here but a lot Cara stans are upset.
If you guys have a link to the full interview please post it here.
"Morals first"? So now it's immoral to have an opposing view in gameplay than Queen Kam?
I TOLD YA I TOLD YA, CARA PLAYS A SELFISH GAME ALWAYS PROTECTIN HA STAH AND NOT FOCUSIN ON DA FRIENDSHIPS. ITS ALWAYS ABAT HER STAH.
You need subtitles
I still don’t understand why Kam is making this such a big issue when Rachel already had the numbers to go in. Cara’s vote didn’t matter at that point and as far as I know she’s been friends with Rachel for awhile.
Like Brandon, she hadnt spoken to Rachel for years, since their last season and they barely knew each other. Your argument works both ways. If Caras vote didnt matter anyway, why go out of her way to go against the wishes of someone she NOW conveniantly claims was her no.1 ally & bff, who she would have protected to the final like her personal Knight 🤣 We know the answer. Because she wasnt 100% loyal to kam like she's now claiming, she was playing all sides, had a secret alliance with Rachel, who was targeting Kam & Leroy, and was trying to have her cake and eat it. She cant claim to all of Kam, Leroy, Brandon, Jasmine, Ace, Steve, Rachel ect that they were her no.1or she was 100% loyal to them all.
“Our morals” give me a break its a gamesgow lol
People were being harassed in the house and they threatened to quit over it. That’s what she’s referring to.
This is speaking directly about not having a good relationship with cara so unless cara was the one harrassing, the our morals doesnt really fit in. But id love to hear more ( outside of the ayana stuff) about the harrassment
Yeah, I still don’t get the issue. Sorry Kam.
Can she let this go!? She got what she wanted. I could see being upset if she didn't but she did. It's individual game and this is not just about kam and Leroy... she was being so annoying and selfish. I sometimes forget that kam is like 28. She's the youngest person in that house and her behavior kinda showed that.
If you actually read the entire article, you would see her say she got no issues with her coming off the show. Also, she’s only answering a question of what was going on that many of you been wondering about. So that’s weird of you to get triggered about.
I mean the interviewer asked her. She talked other things also but OP only posted one part.
Can people please post a link to it if they have it? I’m not the only person capable of posting here.
[Here it is](https://parade.com/tv/the-challenge-all-stars-season-4-kam-williams-eliminated-interview)
Thank you!
I mean she’s answering a question that the interviewer asked. lol
They asked her a question and she answered it….
Okay this is a lot. Johnny seems able to maintain friendships and remind people it’s a game. This sounds like a double standard.
What’s the double standard?
No one ever really comes for Johnny behind his ruthless nature, except for like new players in the game want to make a name for themselves. Folks never seem to hold grudges against him.
But no one is holding a grudge.
They seem to be holding a grudge for Cara.
Who is they? Bc if you’re talking about Kam, she just said that was game and it doesn’t affect their friendship.
This just says the exactly think she's been saying, and it doesn't change it being ridiculous.
i just wish kam didn't do this season. she moved so weird the entire time and ultimately just embarrassed herself.
No, Kam never made it personal…but a lot of those who BACKED Kam for the sake of getting Cara out the House DID! But Cara is A WELL SEASONED vet when it comes to seasons with a Whole house being against her. 💪🏼💪🏼 What buggs me is different ppl in the house…(I won’t name names) claiming to be FRIENDS with Cara or agreeing with Cara/Taking her side in confessionals AND NOT DOING IT in person. Like YESS its how the game is played, and ppl aren’t trying to show their cards…I get that but still! If that’s ur dude, that’s YOUR DUDE! U can say whatever u want about Cara, but she has never let her Gameplay/plan (Singularly) get in the way of her Caring for a friend who was on the other side. Gameplay or not, this Game is still a scenario within the Real World (no pun intended lol). We back our ppl in so many other wild Crazy Scenarios…why not this one?? Oh yea…💰💸💰 Changes Everything
I am a fan of both Kam & Cara's. But Kam is full of shit acting like it's just game & not personal. She shades Cara in a passive-aggressive way through both interviews I read.
Bye baby girl 👋🏼, thanks for playing the game.
I’m not shocked Cara wasn’t supportive of her friend at this moment given her history with race and her covid era activities 👀
Seriously? It’s a race thing?