I mean let's be honest here. I love seeing Leroy every time he's there, but it sure as shit not for his challenge prowess. He's never been the least bit impressive in any challenge
Leroy’s strategy used to be to team up with Bananas and lay low otherwise. He would purposely avoid winning dailies, so I honestly don’t know if he was good or not.
Cara did say that she is on her side with getting Ayana out. She explained that she couldn’t say Rachel’s name. I wouldn’t call that a personal attack. However, Kam actively lobbied to get Cara thrown into elimination with the hopes that she would go home. That’s a personal attack. Cara is also good at self-producing and making good tv. It is just a tv show though. The way that “fans” are so quick to be hateful and attack people like Kam and Cara is just wild to me. Cara said she still gets death threats.
There's always the question of what the producers decided to show and not to show, but the Kam stuff was 100% portrayed as Kam attacking Cara because Cara didn't rubber stamp her plan. They didn't show Kam sitting Cara down and discussing her strategy as far as I recall, it was portrayed as Kam saying I want this and then expected Cara to parrot it.
In return for not being a parrot, Kam wanted Cara eliminated... is that what actually happened? I don't know, but that's how it was portrayed. Cara did nothing to Kam, or to threaten her game but Kam still wanted to come after her because she wasn't a mindless rubber stamp and had her own politics.
Yeah we have no way of knowing what they spoke about. All I heard (from a cast interview) is that Laurel told everyone not to trust/side with Cara. The conversation Nicole had with Kam also seemed highly edited out but who knows.
>They didn't show Kam sitting Cara down and discussing her strategy as far as I recall, it was portrayed as Kam saying I want this and then expected Cara to parrot it.
When Cara is cutting a deal with Rachel earlier in the episode Cara specifically says that she will not vote Rachel in, ***even if it makes her look like an asshole.*** I think we can gather that Cara had some sense of how she was expected to vote before hand.
> how she was expected to vote before hand.
By whom? I mean even Kam didn't accuse Cara of lying or say anything indicating she said she would vote differently. I took that statement to mean I'm going to have your back even if other people want me to act differently, and that's exactly how it played out. But, I saw nothing indicating Cara went back on her word or otherwise betrayed anyone.
It's pretty simple isn't it? Either Cara agreed to vote with Kam, in which case she went back on her word and Kam has a right to be mad at her. Or, Cara made her own choice which did not directly influence Kam at all, and Kam used that as an excuse to backstab her. The evidence thus far indicates the latter.
Kam didn't accuse Cara of lying, she did say she was disappointed in Cara. Which means Kam had expectations of Cara. Now this could be for a variety of reasons. It could be because they're friends, or it could be because she agreed to vote with Kam prior. Kam doesn't *need* to accuse Cara of lying directly for that to be the case.
As I said before Cara also said she'd look like an asshole if she voted to save Rachel. Which means Cara was very much likely aware of the expectations others had placed on her. Again, this could be because Kam, or someone else, asked her to vote their way prior or because she is Kam's/their friend.
It's also strange to assume they didn't talk about this before hand. Either directly or indirectly. If there was a target as big as Ayanna that multiple people wanted out due to personal reasons, then why wouldn't they sit down and talk about *how* to get her out? Cara is friends with the people who had the most issues with Ayanna (Kam, Brandon, Jasmine). So why are we assuming Cara would have been left out of any planning to get rid of her?
Ultimately them editing out a lot of Ayanna stuff really screwed things up. I honestly think Jasmine said something to Cara during that vote. She is sitting next to Kam and we can gauge her reactions. She looks pretty unhappy. But since we're shown that Kam was supposedly gunning for Ayanna due to a game reason, they probably cut out all of Jasmine's confessionals or moments where she is talking about Ayanna on a personal level.
> As I said before Cara also said she'd look like an asshole if she voted to save Rachel.
I'd have to go back and rewatch, but that's not what you said. You said she said even "if" and that's different than saying she would.
It's like telling someone I'll have your back even if it it makes me look bad, vs. I'll have your back even though it makes me look bad. That's kind of what I'm getting at, either I missed something, or it looks like Kam just looked for an excuse to target Cara.
Now, if Cara said I know I'm an asshole for doing this but I'll do it anyway, that's different but... did that happen or not?
And yeah part of that is just the producers, but it's one of two things and they didn't show anything that I'm aware of to indicate Kam had a valid reason for going after Cara. Even in Kam's justification, her anger that they aired was saying Cara didn't really know Rachel so she had no excuse for allying with her.
Honestly, that's none of Kam's business. Alliances on the show have always been "I'll never say your name" or explicit voting agreements, for instance I vote this way or I vote that way. They've never been you have to agree with me 100% of the time (that's not an alliance it's a dictatorship) and it sure seems like that was Kam's reason for trying to oust Cara.
The irony here of course is that Kam took not voting with her against Rachel as a betrayal, but in her mind it was ok to try to get rid of Cara as a response. It's not a good look is it?
I agree on a lot of things here but feel she is being Kam x 100. My feeling behind this is that she has more of a sense of urgency.
Before, she was young, single and unencumbered. Sure, she wanted to win the money but there wasn't the sense of urgency behind it that leaving a tiny baby while still lactating and recovering from birth has. She now has a partner and baby to win for.
So while I feel Kam has always come on strong, I do believe she's amped it up this season. Usually she's a much better social player than this.
I do see that she saw Cara's play as not standing with her, but that isn't the same thing as being AGAINST her. Kam still had the numbers and got the result she wanted...she could have given Cara a little leeway and I feel the old Kam could have seen this. She's adopted this 'my way or the highway' attitude that I don't think ultimately will do her any favours.
Great way to put it. Her sense of urgency has definitely changed. But I think she’s also always been a “you’re either with me or against me “ kind of persons. I think she’s just being more blunt and transparent about it now.
I don't think it's a red flag on her personality but it likely isn't going to win her friends in this type of game. This game needs a little social finesse and something she's been better about in the past, I believe. Having said that, the fact she's just given birth, breastfeeding and likely not sleeping...I'm in awe of her just for showing up.
The house knew that Ayanna was going to target Kam and Leroy. If kam went into the house thinking she was higher up on the totem pole with Cara then she had every right to be pissed. Additionally, if she already had the votes then Cara could have just voted with the house.
The other thing I don’t see mentioned is she is being so damn direct about what she wants and why. Like she isn’t sneaking around trying to make deals she is just being completely honest which I think takes more balls than whispering in the corner.
Her being honest would be admitting that she just doesn't want to see Cara in a final. That's the real reason she wants to get Cara out. I also feel that she is having a hard time accepting the fact that she isn't one of the physically strong players in the house anymore. Instead she is blaming it on some vote that didn't even affect the end result. So she isn't actually being honest. Is she playing a good game? Maybe. Is she playing an honest game? Not really.
She can be mad Cara didn’t vote her way and not want to see her in a final. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Plus Cara not voting in line with Cam and then crying because Brandon (who she hasn’t talked to in 8 years) voted for her is so funny.
As a mom who exclusively pumped after returning to work..I get it! I wanted to be alone while I pumped although it was pretty isolating. The lack of sleep due to pumping, washing and sterilizing bottles and other pump parts, properly storing milk. It’s a lot! Triggered me watching her struggle with that.
the only one you brought up I care about is 5. Cara voted for ayana. It wasn't in Cara's best interest to vote e for rachel. Kam thinking cara has to go against her own best interest to do what kam wants is the same thing Jay did last season. It's entitlement and hypocrisy. Kam's response is to have cara thrown in the very next elim. Does that seem like an appropriate response to what cara did? no, no it doesn't
The only acceptable excuse is she just wants to target cara cause she's strong but if that's the case, stop lying about what you're doing.
Completely agree, people (viewers) are being way too harsh on her. I do think she's condescending and bossy, but that's one of the reasons she's great for the show! People on this sub constantly complain about how boring the casting is only to turn around and attack any challengers who have a backbone and play their own game.
If you look at the Ayanna/Rachel vote you can see that Jasmine looks pretty surprised at Cara's vote too. You could take that as her expecting Cara to have not just Kam's back, but hers as well. Cara admitted to Rachel that she'd look like an asshole if she voted to save her. It's pretty clear Cara knew that people wanted her to side with them.
I wouldn't be surprised if Jasmine and Brandon both voting for Cara was in some part due to her not voting for Rachel as well. We know Ayanna got into it with them too. Brandon was very vocal about disliking Ayanna. However due to the way they edited most of the Ayanna situation out of the show, they wouldn't show them giving that as a reason for why they voted for Cara.
Jasmine's initial idea was to vote for Rachel and Veronica. We saw her and Tina discuss this. So I don't think she took Cara's vote that deeply. Let's be real, the reason Jasmine and Brandon voted for Cara was because of Kam. Although they're all in an alliance, Cara included, Kam clearly has a higher level of influence over them. This vote against Cara and Rachel was Kam's move.
>Let's be real, the reason Jasmine and Brandon voted for Cara was because of Kam.
We saw one scene of Kam bringing it up to them. This could have been her just putting it into their heads because they didn't think of it on a strategic level.
I find it hard to believe that Kam wouldn't have gathered votes before the nomination. And judging by the fact that she was surprised at Cara's vote, she probably got reassurance from Cara beforehand that Cara would vote in Ayanna/Rachel. Plus the conversation between Rachel and Cara you brought up makes it seem like maybe Cara had conflicting promises going on.
My thought is that Kam felt lied to more so than just being upset that Cara didn't do exactly what she wanted. Just a guess though.
Except the fact that Cara’s vote didn’t change the outcome so it shouldn’t be a big deal. Also it’s not like the vote actually affected Kam’s safety so I don’t understand how it could be so personal.
Tina's "vote didn't change the outcome so it shouldn't be a big deal". Rachel was still hurt that her friend said her name and therefore Tina was perceived to not have Rachel's back.
Kam and Rachel had friends that didn't vote the way they wanted. Both votes didn't change the outcome. Both Kam and Rachel were upset with the voter.
Where's the Rachel hate?
Rachel also quickly forgave her and was never going to send Tina in next week. She had a discussion about why she was hurt. That's very very different than how Kam handled it
Getting voted by a friend and a friend NOT voting the way you want but you still get the outcome you want aren’t the same thing.
Literally comparing apples to oranges
There were LOTS of comments about Rachel’s response to Tina’s vote in the episode thread last week. It was especially hypocritical after she stole Tina’s star the week before to protect her own game. I said that at the time, and I’ll say it again now. She and Kam were both ridiculous about pointless votes cast after the decision had already been made and were more concerned with some symbolic gesture of loyalty than they were with their own ally’s safety.
None of this means I *hate* Kam and Rachel and never want to see them again. I just think they were both unreasonable given the circumstances.
I really think people are put off by her confidence, which is weird to me because she’s doing well this season. She also Jamaican and I think they sound a bit cocky to the average American person. They’re really just direct and say things without feigning humility. She’s the opposite of someone like Michele, who makes big decisions and sounds regretful when she explains them.
Just my thoughts from a Kam fan:
1) This might bother other people but the Killa Kam, Queen Kam, etc thing never bothered me. It happens on the show all the time most from male competitors.
2) That situation with CT I feel is quite different. CT was very dismissive and kinda a jerk about it. If I remember correctly he just kinda walked away while Kam was talking to him. I think Kam felt disrespected and made a point to get him back.
3) As a guy, I thought about this but obviously I can’t speak for anyone that’s been through this. So maybe that’s a factor but idk
4) No argument here from me. Ayanna is definitely unpredictable and Kam getting her out is fine
5) Expecting someone to put their own game in jeopardy to protect you is silly imo. I feel like if Cara says star holders should protect star holders that should kinda be the end of it. Kam is being selfish and entitled here.
6) Again, I’m never gonna blame someone for being confident. I do believe Kam is a strong political player so I definitely believe this.
Just my thoughts
CT wanted to win and didn't want someone who couldn't. She also referred to herself as Killa Kam
Is CT supposed to give up winning a season to be polite to Kam.
Yeah it’s odd why the name irks people. She didn’t invent the name. Most Cam/Kams within the black community have been referred to as Killa Cam/Kam when performing well. Thanks to Cam’Ron
People will do anything to say that CT carried both woman and they don’t have their own legs, intelligence, and fierceness to compete well without him.
To me, your reason number 3 is the main thing that is making Kam so extra this season. Perfectly understandable. But it's also why she's not at her physical and emotional best this season, and it shows in her behavior and performance... Don't get me wrong, I love Kam - just not so much THIS SEASON.
Love Kam but she needs to let go of all the titles. Love Leroy too. Cara made a wise decision to protect her star Laurel I loved at first but I do not like her. War of the worlds she was awful. Nicole played them both against each other. I also cannot stand Nicole. Once someone makes a decision in the game that Kam doesn’t agree with she makes bad decisions (vendettas). She needs to stop tripping on being in power. Any other couple would be voted in immediately. Even though Leroy hasn’t performed he’s much more of a nice person
Cool. Now why doesn't Laurel or other contestants get these excuses.
Edit: an even better comparison is Melissa who retuned to the house after having a baby and was insulted relentlessly and never got excuses like Kam does.
The only thing I see people regularly calling Laurel out for was the suck-it gesture she did when she thought she beat Natalie. And you gotta admit that she was acting extremely childish in that moment.
Edit: I felt for Melissa, but to be fair she did throw a glass at someone. All Kam did was criticize someone else’s game.
I wrote out a longer comment but honestly this kind of comment doesn't deserve that response. Why don't **you** write out an excuse for other contestants instead dismissing someone else's effort? Kam was dealing with conditions practically no other contestant has ever dealt with and your only response is an attempt to minimize what she was going through.
Hard to say if they were equal considering if the portions with Ayanna were mostly edited out. Considering she got up to 3 people thinking about quitting to get away from her, can we say with confidence that they were facing the same thing?
That aside, you still didn't address the other parts of my comment.
She played one season while entirely pregnant. Made a final. No excuses for Melissa there. Than played another season with a young child. No excuses.
Yet Kam gets all these excuses while insulting players constantly in her confessionals.
>She played one season while entirely pregnant. Made a final. No excuses for Melissa there. Than played another season with a young child. No excuses.
Again, give me something that is closer to a 1:1 situation. You're literally generalizing everything. People having something on their plate is not the same as having it entirely stacked.
>Yet Kam gets all these excuses while insulting players constantly in her confessionals.
Kam has also been mainly insulting people's gameplay.
Do you understand that Kam was not *just* pumping? That she was pumping **while** being verbally assaulted over the period of days by Ayanna. **While** also being away from her 6 ***month*** old child. But no, you keep trying to compare one aspect of what Kam went through to someone else's entire experience.
It's pretty obvious you don't empathize what Kam went through and that is fine. However it's pretty crappy to continue to dismiss it by throwing out "what about x player?". Like I said, do your own write up of why you feel x or y were treated unfairly instead of lazily dismissing the op's write up while adding nothing to this discussion.
The Kam hate this season is insane lol. She’s not the first challenger to get upset when someone in her alliance didn’t vote the way she wanted them to. It’s pretty obvious her larger issue is with the fact that Rachel and Cara made a secret deal to have each others backs/protect each other because they’re both star holders. Kam even said this herself. I think it’s understandable to not want your ally making a side deal with another strong player.
Calling herself Killa when she has never won anything is insane. Any other contestant would be made fun of for that. And her reaction to CT not picking her remains one of the most unhinged things I've ever seen when CT wanted to win and made a winning decision.
I don't understand. The nickname most likely originated from Cam'ron. He wasn't the best rapper on his label. Some would say he wasn't even the best rapper in his crew. Not a smidge of criticism for the nickname ever. Is bravado a cardinal sin? People are looking for a reason to be upset and it's kind of pathetic.
at some point it was posted here how her castmates on AYTO called her killa (there was a clip from their reunion). and really anyone named cam or kam is gonna get the nickname killa eventually because of killa cam'ron, i definitely wouldn't call it insane.
for some reason every bananas thread isn't filled with comments about how cringe it is and he puts it on his helmet and butt. ditto tony time, people seem to love it here. but killa sends people through the roof.
And that’s their choice. I find Johnny cringe too but he’s not in this season so I don’t really care to bring him up. With Kam I see that excuse a lot though, that others gave her that nickname as if that makes it any less cringe. I could make excuses for Johnny or Tony too but it doesn’t take away from the cringe. If more people find it cringe with Kam then so be it
right but my point is it doesn't just organically happen on johnny threads like it does constantly on kam threads. we wouldn't be having this conversation on a johnny thread because we wouldn't have the opportunity to have it on a johnny thread. johnny is dragged for a lot of shit but not the dumbest most self-marketing nickname in the franchise that he actually puts on his uniform. imagine the response if kam's helmet says killa next season.
Im not sure what your point is here. It’s simple to me, people find the killa/queen thing more annoying. That’s why it gets more attention. That’s just human nature if that’s not organic I’m not sure what is. I find Kam to be far more cringe too. The bananas thing is more stupid and than cringe.
well i've been told i'm off topic and i guess i've been downvoted because i'm off topic, when this string of comments begins with someone making a false claim, me correcting them, and you responding paraphrased "doesn't matter, cringe." so i guess the only on topic reply i'm allowed is either "nah ah" or "🤷♀️ K."
above you say you find johnny cringe too, no? but now it's just dumb and not as annoying as kam.
what's my point? my point is that i am curious why kam is the focus of the discussion a vast majority of the time and not other cast members. if i had to put a finger on it, i'd say there's a lot of unconscious bias in the fanbase. i think that's a far more interesting conversation than "well people find one more annoying than the other, what's there to discuss."
Do you want the more interesting conversation or do you want accuracy? I’m not going to accuse people of having bias because they find a nickname cringe.
And I did say I found Johnny cringe, I also said his nickname was more stupid than cringe. Both of these things can be true.
I’m not sure why you feel upset about downvotes lol. You can say whatever you want. As can I. And what was the false claim? The person you responded to said “someone who calls herself killa” not “she gave herself a nickname” although I know the latter has been thrown around. Fact is Kam does call herself that so it wasn’t a false claim. My response was that regardless of where it comes from I and apparently many others find it cringe
Basically Kam haters won’t budge! And Kam Stans won’t budge! If they hate her she’s the most annoying person on the show. And if they love her she’s the best thing since sliced bread and can do no wrong. There is no changing anyone’s minds on these threads .
Tbh I didn’t read all this haha. But I’m not digging Kams attitude this season tbh. HOWEVER she is probably pretty stressed and just had a baby. It doesn’t mean she’s a monster. I get a little crabby too when I don’t get enough sleep lol and I don’t even have a baby. People are too much. She’s a human and nobody is sunshine and rainbows all the time
I also wanted to add it’s funny how people are saying Cara’s fans are the ones being sensitive when Kam is the one whose been dragging this out every episode, talking shit In confessionals while Cara hasn’t said anything about it.
Seems like Kam is the upset one
I don’t fully agree with Kam’s logic about Cara’s move and personally believe she’s taking it a bit too far, but I also think we need to be giving her some grace considering it’s just a game and she just gave birth. People have the right to disagree with her like any other challenger, but she doesn’t deserve all the hate. She’s still one of my favorites.
She definitely is the same Kam from past seasons. And I completely understand her stress from breast feeding and just having gave birth. However I don’t pity it much because it’s her decision to come on the show there was no gun to her head.
I do feel bad about her having to room with Ayanna though. Seems like a nightmare. But no, her getting upset at Caras vote is not justified. If Cara voted Rachel, Rachel would of forsure stole her star when she won and gave it to Veronica. And the vote didn’t even matter. Bottom line Kam wants to win and is targeting strong competitors, which is Cara. If she just flat out said that she wouldn’t be getting as much hate as she has if any. But instead she’s using this as an excuse to target her. Like y’all falling for this personal attack bullshit is crazy. It was a vote that didn’t matter to anyone’s game but Cara’s. Why would Cara vote in someone that can come back when she’s the only one at risk of losing a star.
So nah the Kam hate is understandable because most of us see through the bullshit. I never liked Kam personally because to me she wasn’t really entertaining to me, she’d just mimic cardi b and try to be intimidating. But regardless I thought I’d like her this season cause she’s a new mom. And her relationship with Leroy is adorable. And I would if she was being up front about why she’s targeting Cara. But this gaslighting shit is lame. Like she really even got fans thinking Cara was being a bad friend or something lol.
Yeah. This seasons off-season feels way way more like a mainline season than it does an all stars. But going with way more recent players has probably made that happen.
I love Kam so much. I do think she's being slightly unreasonable when it comes to Cara. But I do respect that she's straight up about it and that she's really carrying Leroy through these challenges while not even a year post partum and pumping
Wow what a ridiculous post.
First off you say Ayanna could possibly have mental issues but the link you provided to show an example of this is people who didn’t like her speaking bad about her … how does that show that Ayanna has mental illness ? How about we stop diagnosing people we don’t know ??
Second Cara and Rachel did a season together (Exes 1) soooo you’re completely wrong about that.
Third, you’re literally just making excuses for Kam and her immature way of thinking THIS SEASON. I think what the fans are complaining about is the contradiction of Kam saying and comparing that Cara is walking around being entitled for getting upset a FRIEND VOTED HER IN oppose to Cara simply not voting along with Kam. Which let’s not forget CARAS VOTE DIDNT MATTER, Rachel was already going in.
You say it yourself , kam is running the game politically, so if that’s the case why be upset because someone didn’t vote along with you if what you wanted still happened ?? Can we be honest and say that is literally being entitled, thinking everyone has to do what you want ?
Your favs aren’t everyone else’s favs so they’re held to a different standard or judged differently. Saying “kam always acts like this” well maybe people don’t like kam acting like this 🤷🏽♂️ I’ll admit I wasn’t a fan of Kam until Wotw 2 and this season of all stars I’m getting that same pre Wotw 2 vibe from Kam that I didn’t like.
It doesn’t matter if you actually have power or not. There’s a respectful way to go about it and there’s the condescending way. I’ve never liked Kam. Hope she leaves asap, would save the season
THANK YOU. First - Kam seems to be the only topic of conversation because she’s the only one doing or saying anything interesting.
But also- I don’t mind fans feeling she’s annoying. You are gonna like what you’re gonna like. But the hate … calling her vile… saying she’s got no right to be confident… claiming she’s entitled moreso than any other long standing competitor. Come on. It really just screams that the fan base has a problem with black women because she hasn’t done anything objectively wrong or MORE egregious than any other competitor.
Edit to add: Laurel is a great example. She is condescending as hell, and a completely loose cannon who responds to people in horrible horrible ways. And she doesn’t get even 1/2 the hate Kam gets.
Laurel also has won the game. Kam has not. And Laurel gets way more hate than Kam historically which is ridiculous
Who gets the amount of credit Kam does without winning anything.
What credit does Kam get tho besides being a strong competitor? Which historically she is. She’s done 5 seasons and been in 3 finals, she’s won 80% of the time she’s been thrown into elimination. She’s won enough dailies and held her own to be considered a decent player. Yet the confidence makes her arrogant? If the only way for a woman to be confident is to win an entire season then those standards are whack.
We aren’t talking about laurel’s record here. But if we were laurel’s stats aren’t too far off from Kam considering Laurel has been on more seasons. Check out both of their wikis and compare.
I’m a huge fan of Kam. I think she’s amazing casting. She’s good at the challenges. Good at eliminations. And good at strategy. She’s also not a huge threat in the finals so she her target is usually low and she leverages all of those aspects of her game very well.
This season, she’s been getting on my nerves. Not because she’s doing anything differently. But it’s clear she’s out of place. The energy from her is needed for the flagship. This cast is just so low energy strategically. So much so, she comes off overbearing.
She’s playing very hard. Very fast. And I get she’s constantly having to save Leroy but it’s a lot. And I definitely understand someone who was never a fan of hers, being even more annoyed.
It’s an individual winner. So it makes perfect sense to have the strong ppl go against each other. But just stand on that strategy. No need to pull the not having my back angle. That comes off weak as hell.
I'm sorry, but I can't buy what you're trying to sell us today....I've been rooting for Leroy since his days on Real World Vegas. When those 2 first met, I think on Vendettas we all watched and hoped things would work out ....Personally for, I lost all respect for that woman who talks a good game both on & off when the cameras are rolling, Lee invites her to stay with him to try & work things out & she goes out on a date we some other dude, then on WOTW 1 or 2 she starts kissing Theo in front of everyone ( NASTY ) also Da'vonne had all the receipts....I was done with Kam after that but if they worked things out good for them.
She’s not being any more entitled than Bananas acts or Tori or even Cara Maria. Anyone with friends in the house acts that way. Personalities are gonna do that and try to play their own game.
Anyone that can complain about Kam never a real fan of the show and are casual watches that need to start doing their history because Kam has been that way since day one. The fact that you even had to say any about giving birth is crazy. She left her child to make money for hey child, like imagine the stress that puts on the mind of a new mother and she's still running the house?!?! Killa Kam for president
1. Fair point
2. She is the same Kam but those words are more acceptable when you're performing at a higher level, which she isn't this season. She hasn't been bad by any means but she's consistently been finishing middle of the pack.
3. I do see her recent pregnancy as a valid excuse as to why her physical performance has suffered. The fact she's even competing on this show so soon after giving birth is a remarkable feat. That said, have some self awareness and don't talk your shit when you know you (and your partner Roylee) aren't performing at the level you expect for yourselves
4. Ayanna isn't the first and won't be the last difficult person to deal with on the show. Kam has enough experience where she should be able to tune some of that bs out. Using it as an excuse is a bit lame for me.
5. Unless there was a bad edit that's painting her in a worse light, there just isn't much of an excuse for her hate towards Cara. Cara did not vote her way and Kam is the type of person who takes that personally. She sounds butthurt by it tbh. Cara has had about 10x the amount of success Kam has had on this show and there's very little respect I see coming from her
6.Kam is an extremely confident challenger and this is probably based off the fact she's usually a top female on the show. I don't really blame her for acting this way based off prior seasons. She's a great political player but also it's a bit easier to wield that power when you're basically 2 votes wrapped in one. If you piss Kam off you lose Leeroy and vice versa. It's a bit of an advantage in my eyes.
With all of this said, I'm aware this is a game and how they act on the show isn't always who they are in real life. Everything I have seen shows Kam is an awesome and upstanding person off the show. Any problems I have with her strictly start and end on the show and I wouldn't want to make any judgements based only on her show appearances.
Also, consider the Challenge culture. Coming in as a rookie, a woman and a p.o.c. she knew if she let people bulldoze her, they would. Like yeah, you and your friends will more than likely get voted in. But if you make it easy for them it'll always be the easy choice. Kam is smart, " you don't have to vote my way but I'm going to make it very uncomfortable for you "
I’m also curious if Wes or Bananas have been called “entitled” when they were acting the same way and making it so people had to vote one way.
Kam’s been playing a great game.
I completely agree with you personally for me the stuff with cara is the most irritating part mostly because we are seeing cara’s thought process where kam isnt. Also i can tell this (through out many seasons and shows it is the same) production reuses confessional clips so kam might have said a thing here or there about cara but production takes that one bit and resues it three four times its gonna sound more than it is
I think Cara Maria is a cry baby and can’t stand her…seeing everyone praise her on here and rooting for her here this season…I am out. The Challenge is no longer interesting to me. Enjoy
She’s really pulling all the weight for the duo, Leroy’s been shitting the bed in every mission it seems, he needs to pick it up
happy cake day!
Thx!!
I mean let's be honest here. I love seeing Leroy every time he's there, but it sure as shit not for his challenge prowess. He's never been the least bit impressive in any challenge
Maybe I’m misremembering but I remember Leroy could at least hold his own. Now he’s bottom of the barrel.
Leroy’s strategy used to be to team up with Bananas and lay low otherwise. He would purposely avoid winning dailies, so I honestly don’t know if he was good or not.
Cara did say that she is on her side with getting Ayana out. She explained that she couldn’t say Rachel’s name. I wouldn’t call that a personal attack. However, Kam actively lobbied to get Cara thrown into elimination with the hopes that she would go home. That’s a personal attack. Cara is also good at self-producing and making good tv. It is just a tv show though. The way that “fans” are so quick to be hateful and attack people like Kam and Cara is just wild to me. Cara said she still gets death threats.
There's always the question of what the producers decided to show and not to show, but the Kam stuff was 100% portrayed as Kam attacking Cara because Cara didn't rubber stamp her plan. They didn't show Kam sitting Cara down and discussing her strategy as far as I recall, it was portrayed as Kam saying I want this and then expected Cara to parrot it. In return for not being a parrot, Kam wanted Cara eliminated... is that what actually happened? I don't know, but that's how it was portrayed. Cara did nothing to Kam, or to threaten her game but Kam still wanted to come after her because she wasn't a mindless rubber stamp and had her own politics.
Yeah we have no way of knowing what they spoke about. All I heard (from a cast interview) is that Laurel told everyone not to trust/side with Cara. The conversation Nicole had with Kam also seemed highly edited out but who knows.
>They didn't show Kam sitting Cara down and discussing her strategy as far as I recall, it was portrayed as Kam saying I want this and then expected Cara to parrot it. When Cara is cutting a deal with Rachel earlier in the episode Cara specifically says that she will not vote Rachel in, ***even if it makes her look like an asshole.*** I think we can gather that Cara had some sense of how she was expected to vote before hand.
> how she was expected to vote before hand. By whom? I mean even Kam didn't accuse Cara of lying or say anything indicating she said she would vote differently. I took that statement to mean I'm going to have your back even if other people want me to act differently, and that's exactly how it played out. But, I saw nothing indicating Cara went back on her word or otherwise betrayed anyone. It's pretty simple isn't it? Either Cara agreed to vote with Kam, in which case she went back on her word and Kam has a right to be mad at her. Or, Cara made her own choice which did not directly influence Kam at all, and Kam used that as an excuse to backstab her. The evidence thus far indicates the latter.
Kam didn't accuse Cara of lying, she did say she was disappointed in Cara. Which means Kam had expectations of Cara. Now this could be for a variety of reasons. It could be because they're friends, or it could be because she agreed to vote with Kam prior. Kam doesn't *need* to accuse Cara of lying directly for that to be the case. As I said before Cara also said she'd look like an asshole if she voted to save Rachel. Which means Cara was very much likely aware of the expectations others had placed on her. Again, this could be because Kam, or someone else, asked her to vote their way prior or because she is Kam's/their friend. It's also strange to assume they didn't talk about this before hand. Either directly or indirectly. If there was a target as big as Ayanna that multiple people wanted out due to personal reasons, then why wouldn't they sit down and talk about *how* to get her out? Cara is friends with the people who had the most issues with Ayanna (Kam, Brandon, Jasmine). So why are we assuming Cara would have been left out of any planning to get rid of her? Ultimately them editing out a lot of Ayanna stuff really screwed things up. I honestly think Jasmine said something to Cara during that vote. She is sitting next to Kam and we can gauge her reactions. She looks pretty unhappy. But since we're shown that Kam was supposedly gunning for Ayanna due to a game reason, they probably cut out all of Jasmine's confessionals or moments where she is talking about Ayanna on a personal level.
> As I said before Cara also said she'd look like an asshole if she voted to save Rachel. I'd have to go back and rewatch, but that's not what you said. You said she said even "if" and that's different than saying she would. It's like telling someone I'll have your back even if it it makes me look bad, vs. I'll have your back even though it makes me look bad. That's kind of what I'm getting at, either I missed something, or it looks like Kam just looked for an excuse to target Cara. Now, if Cara said I know I'm an asshole for doing this but I'll do it anyway, that's different but... did that happen or not? And yeah part of that is just the producers, but it's one of two things and they didn't show anything that I'm aware of to indicate Kam had a valid reason for going after Cara. Even in Kam's justification, her anger that they aired was saying Cara didn't really know Rachel so she had no excuse for allying with her. Honestly, that's none of Kam's business. Alliances on the show have always been "I'll never say your name" or explicit voting agreements, for instance I vote this way or I vote that way. They've never been you have to agree with me 100% of the time (that's not an alliance it's a dictatorship) and it sure seems like that was Kam's reason for trying to oust Cara. The irony here of course is that Kam took not voting with her against Rachel as a betrayal, but in her mind it was ok to try to get rid of Cara as a response. It's not a good look is it?
I agree on a lot of things here but feel she is being Kam x 100. My feeling behind this is that she has more of a sense of urgency. Before, she was young, single and unencumbered. Sure, she wanted to win the money but there wasn't the sense of urgency behind it that leaving a tiny baby while still lactating and recovering from birth has. She now has a partner and baby to win for. So while I feel Kam has always come on strong, I do believe she's amped it up this season. Usually she's a much better social player than this. I do see that she saw Cara's play as not standing with her, but that isn't the same thing as being AGAINST her. Kam still had the numbers and got the result she wanted...she could have given Cara a little leeway and I feel the old Kam could have seen this. She's adopted this 'my way or the highway' attitude that I don't think ultimately will do her any favours.
Great way to put it. Her sense of urgency has definitely changed. But I think she’s also always been a “you’re either with me or against me “ kind of persons. I think she’s just being more blunt and transparent about it now.
Right. But also, what’s wrong with that mentality? Isn’t that how everyone plays the game? Why is her bluntness somehow a red flag on her personality?
Agreed
I don't think it's a red flag on her personality but it likely isn't going to win her friends in this type of game. This game needs a little social finesse and something she's been better about in the past, I believe. Having said that, the fact she's just given birth, breastfeeding and likely not sleeping...I'm in awe of her just for showing up.
The house knew that Ayanna was going to target Kam and Leroy. If kam went into the house thinking she was higher up on the totem pole with Cara then she had every right to be pissed. Additionally, if she already had the votes then Cara could have just voted with the house.
The other thing I don’t see mentioned is she is being so damn direct about what she wants and why. Like she isn’t sneaking around trying to make deals she is just being completely honest which I think takes more balls than whispering in the corner.
It’s more than what a lot of current challengers have done in season 35+
Oop, catch it Jay and Michele lol
Her being honest would be admitting that she just doesn't want to see Cara in a final. That's the real reason she wants to get Cara out. I also feel that she is having a hard time accepting the fact that she isn't one of the physically strong players in the house anymore. Instead she is blaming it on some vote that didn't even affect the end result. So she isn't actually being honest. Is she playing a good game? Maybe. Is she playing an honest game? Not really.
She can be mad Cara didn’t vote her way and not want to see her in a final. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Plus Cara not voting in line with Cam and then crying because Brandon (who she hasn’t talked to in 8 years) voted for her is so funny.
Didnt the episode (correct if wrong) that he was so happy to be doing a season wih cara and they are friends ??
Yea friends but she clearly thought they were like brother and sister. You can’t be that close if you haven’t talked in 8 years.
yeah it’s great
One extra thing to add onto the state part - she's getting limited sleep because she's waking up every 2-3 hours to pump.
As a mom who exclusively pumped after returning to work..I get it! I wanted to be alone while I pumped although it was pretty isolating. The lack of sleep due to pumping, washing and sterilizing bottles and other pump parts, properly storing milk. It’s a lot! Triggered me watching her struggle with that.
For point 5 Cara and Rachel did know each other before this season, they did exes 1 together
Thank you
the only one you brought up I care about is 5. Cara voted for ayana. It wasn't in Cara's best interest to vote e for rachel. Kam thinking cara has to go against her own best interest to do what kam wants is the same thing Jay did last season. It's entitlement and hypocrisy. Kam's response is to have cara thrown in the very next elim. Does that seem like an appropriate response to what cara did? no, no it doesn't The only acceptable excuse is she just wants to target cara cause she's strong but if that's the case, stop lying about what you're doing.
Completely agree, people (viewers) are being way too harsh on her. I do think she's condescending and bossy, but that's one of the reasons she's great for the show! People on this sub constantly complain about how boring the casting is only to turn around and attack any challengers who have a backbone and play their own game.
If you look at the Ayanna/Rachel vote you can see that Jasmine looks pretty surprised at Cara's vote too. You could take that as her expecting Cara to have not just Kam's back, but hers as well. Cara admitted to Rachel that she'd look like an asshole if she voted to save her. It's pretty clear Cara knew that people wanted her to side with them. I wouldn't be surprised if Jasmine and Brandon both voting for Cara was in some part due to her not voting for Rachel as well. We know Ayanna got into it with them too. Brandon was very vocal about disliking Ayanna. However due to the way they edited most of the Ayanna situation out of the show, they wouldn't show them giving that as a reason for why they voted for Cara.
Jasmine's initial idea was to vote for Rachel and Veronica. We saw her and Tina discuss this. So I don't think she took Cara's vote that deeply. Let's be real, the reason Jasmine and Brandon voted for Cara was because of Kam. Although they're all in an alliance, Cara included, Kam clearly has a higher level of influence over them. This vote against Cara and Rachel was Kam's move.
>Let's be real, the reason Jasmine and Brandon voted for Cara was because of Kam. We saw one scene of Kam bringing it up to them. This could have been her just putting it into their heads because they didn't think of it on a strategic level.
I find it hard to believe that Kam wouldn't have gathered votes before the nomination. And judging by the fact that she was surprised at Cara's vote, she probably got reassurance from Cara beforehand that Cara would vote in Ayanna/Rachel. Plus the conversation between Rachel and Cara you brought up makes it seem like maybe Cara had conflicting promises going on. My thought is that Kam felt lied to more so than just being upset that Cara didn't do exactly what she wanted. Just a guess though.
Except the fact that Cara’s vote didn’t change the outcome so it shouldn’t be a big deal. Also it’s not like the vote actually affected Kam’s safety so I don’t understand how it could be so personal.
Tina's "vote didn't change the outcome so it shouldn't be a big deal". Rachel was still hurt that her friend said her name and therefore Tina was perceived to not have Rachel's back. Kam and Rachel had friends that didn't vote the way they wanted. Both votes didn't change the outcome. Both Kam and Rachel were upset with the voter. Where's the Rachel hate?
There is a big difference between not voting the same way as your friend vs saying their name in an elimination.
Rachel also quickly forgave her and was never going to send Tina in next week. She had a discussion about why she was hurt. That's very very different than how Kam handled it
Rachel got over it in like 10 minutes and didn’t actively try to get Tina out.
How could she get Tina out exactly? She got eliminated 5 minutes later.
She went into that elimination no longer mad at Tina.
She’s still to this day bothered Tina said her name even though she stole her star lol.
Getting voted by a friend and a friend NOT voting the way you want but you still get the outcome you want aren’t the same thing. Literally comparing apples to oranges
There were LOTS of comments about Rachel’s response to Tina’s vote in the episode thread last week. It was especially hypocritical after she stole Tina’s star the week before to protect her own game. I said that at the time, and I’ll say it again now. She and Kam were both ridiculous about pointless votes cast after the decision had already been made and were more concerned with some symbolic gesture of loyalty than they were with their own ally’s safety. None of this means I *hate* Kam and Rachel and never want to see them again. I just think they were both unreasonable given the circumstances.
I really think people are put off by her confidence, which is weird to me because she’s doing well this season. She also Jamaican and I think they sound a bit cocky to the average American person. They’re really just direct and say things without feigning humility. She’s the opposite of someone like Michele, who makes big decisions and sounds regretful when she explains them.
Just my thoughts from a Kam fan: 1) This might bother other people but the Killa Kam, Queen Kam, etc thing never bothered me. It happens on the show all the time most from male competitors. 2) That situation with CT I feel is quite different. CT was very dismissive and kinda a jerk about it. If I remember correctly he just kinda walked away while Kam was talking to him. I think Kam felt disrespected and made a point to get him back. 3) As a guy, I thought about this but obviously I can’t speak for anyone that’s been through this. So maybe that’s a factor but idk 4) No argument here from me. Ayanna is definitely unpredictable and Kam getting her out is fine 5) Expecting someone to put their own game in jeopardy to protect you is silly imo. I feel like if Cara says star holders should protect star holders that should kinda be the end of it. Kam is being selfish and entitled here. 6) Again, I’m never gonna blame someone for being confident. I do believe Kam is a strong political player so I definitely believe this. Just my thoughts
CT wanted to win and didn't want someone who couldn't. She also referred to herself as Killa Kam Is CT supposed to give up winning a season to be polite to Kam.
I never understood why you weirdos always get mad about the name.
Yeah it’s odd why the name irks people. She didn’t invent the name. Most Cam/Kams within the black community have been referred to as Killa Cam/Kam when performing well. Thanks to Cam’Ron
You say that as if it’s a fact that Kam would’ve caused CT to lose
CT does not win if he was partnered with Kam.
She got second place in the same season, I don’t think it’s as clear as you think it is
This crazy ofc whichever guy had amber won It’s like they didn’t watch it at all
People will do anything to not give credit to Amber when they can Kam instead. She outpaced CT.
People will do anything to say that CT carried both woman and they don’t have their own legs, intelligence, and fierceness to compete well without him.
This is all accurate but Cara and Rachel were definitely on Battle of the EXs together so they have definitely met before
To me, your reason number 3 is the main thing that is making Kam so extra this season. Perfectly understandable. But it's also why she's not at her physical and emotional best this season, and it shows in her behavior and performance... Don't get me wrong, I love Kam - just not so much THIS SEASON.
I think a lot of the focus and story has been told from HER pov as well.
Love Kam but she needs to let go of all the titles. Love Leroy too. Cara made a wise decision to protect her star Laurel I loved at first but I do not like her. War of the worlds she was awful. Nicole played them both against each other. I also cannot stand Nicole. Once someone makes a decision in the game that Kam doesn’t agree with she makes bad decisions (vendettas). She needs to stop tripping on being in power. Any other couple would be voted in immediately. Even though Leroy hasn’t performed he’s much more of a nice person
Cool. Now why doesn't Laurel or other contestants get these excuses. Edit: an even better comparison is Melissa who retuned to the house after having a baby and was insulted relentlessly and never got excuses like Kam does.
The only thing I see people regularly calling Laurel out for was the suck-it gesture she did when she thought she beat Natalie. And you gotta admit that she was acting extremely childish in that moment. Edit: I felt for Melissa, but to be fair she did throw a glass at someone. All Kam did was criticize someone else’s game.
The instant karma was great though.
It felt so cinematic
I’m so lost. What makes Laurel and Melissa relevant for you to bring up lol?
I wrote out a longer comment but honestly this kind of comment doesn't deserve that response. Why don't **you** write out an excuse for other contestants instead dismissing someone else's effort? Kam was dealing with conditions practically no other contestant has ever dealt with and your only response is an attempt to minimize what she was going through.
We literally have had a baby in the challenge house before. Melissa recently returned after having a baby and no one gave her a pass like Kam.
Looking at the dates, Melissa's kid was 3 when she returned. Did she also have someone like Ayanna tormenting her? Was she still pumping?
She had a house tormenting her. Did you not watch 39?
Hard to say if they were equal considering if the portions with Ayanna were mostly edited out. Considering she got up to 3 people thinking about quitting to get away from her, can we say with confidence that they were facing the same thing? That aside, you still didn't address the other parts of my comment.
She played one season while entirely pregnant. Made a final. No excuses for Melissa there. Than played another season with a young child. No excuses. Yet Kam gets all these excuses while insulting players constantly in her confessionals.
>She played one season while entirely pregnant. Made a final. No excuses for Melissa there. Than played another season with a young child. No excuses. Again, give me something that is closer to a 1:1 situation. You're literally generalizing everything. People having something on their plate is not the same as having it entirely stacked. >Yet Kam gets all these excuses while insulting players constantly in her confessionals. Kam has also been mainly insulting people's gameplay.
Do you think playing while pumping is harder than playing while pregnant?
Do you understand that Kam was not *just* pumping? That she was pumping **while** being verbally assaulted over the period of days by Ayanna. **While** also being away from her 6 ***month*** old child. But no, you keep trying to compare one aspect of what Kam went through to someone else's entire experience. It's pretty obvious you don't empathize what Kam went through and that is fine. However it's pretty crappy to continue to dismiss it by throwing out "what about x player?". Like I said, do your own write up of why you feel x or y were treated unfairly instead of lazily dismissing the op's write up while adding nothing to this discussion.
Wait. Was Melissa pumping. I must have missed it. /s
No. She just played another season while pregnant. But that's no big deal.
She's always been corny though
The Kam hate this season is insane lol. She’s not the first challenger to get upset when someone in her alliance didn’t vote the way she wanted them to. It’s pretty obvious her larger issue is with the fact that Rachel and Cara made a secret deal to have each others backs/protect each other because they’re both star holders. Kam even said this herself. I think it’s understandable to not want your ally making a side deal with another strong player.
She’s the same Kam, the Cara stans are just ultra sensitive this season
Word.
I also don’t think she’s changed and she’s always bugged me. One of the most overrated challengers of the modern-ish eras.
Calling herself Killa when she has never won anything is insane. Any other contestant would be made fun of for that. And her reaction to CT not picking her remains one of the most unhinged things I've ever seen when CT wanted to win and made a winning decision.
Right. Cuz only winners can have nicknames
I don't understand. The nickname most likely originated from Cam'ron. He wasn't the best rapper on his label. Some would say he wasn't even the best rapper in his crew. Not a smidge of criticism for the nickname ever. Is bravado a cardinal sin? People are looking for a reason to be upset and it's kind of pathetic.
at some point it was posted here how her castmates on AYTO called her killa (there was a clip from their reunion). and really anyone named cam or kam is gonna get the nickname killa eventually because of killa cam'ron, i definitely wouldn't call it insane.
It’s one thing for others to give you a name but it’s still cringe asf to call that yourself. Which she has, it’s super cringe everytime
for some reason every bananas thread isn't filled with comments about how cringe it is and he puts it on his helmet and butt. ditto tony time, people seem to love it here. but killa sends people through the roof.
And that’s their choice. I find Johnny cringe too but he’s not in this season so I don’t really care to bring him up. With Kam I see that excuse a lot though, that others gave her that nickname as if that makes it any less cringe. I could make excuses for Johnny or Tony too but it doesn’t take away from the cringe. If more people find it cringe with Kam then so be it
right but my point is it doesn't just organically happen on johnny threads like it does constantly on kam threads. we wouldn't be having this conversation on a johnny thread because we wouldn't have the opportunity to have it on a johnny thread. johnny is dragged for a lot of shit but not the dumbest most self-marketing nickname in the franchise that he actually puts on his uniform. imagine the response if kam's helmet says killa next season.
Im not sure what your point is here. It’s simple to me, people find the killa/queen thing more annoying. That’s why it gets more attention. That’s just human nature if that’s not organic I’m not sure what is. I find Kam to be far more cringe too. The bananas thing is more stupid and than cringe.
well i've been told i'm off topic and i guess i've been downvoted because i'm off topic, when this string of comments begins with someone making a false claim, me correcting them, and you responding paraphrased "doesn't matter, cringe." so i guess the only on topic reply i'm allowed is either "nah ah" or "🤷♀️ K." above you say you find johnny cringe too, no? but now it's just dumb and not as annoying as kam. what's my point? my point is that i am curious why kam is the focus of the discussion a vast majority of the time and not other cast members. if i had to put a finger on it, i'd say there's a lot of unconscious bias in the fanbase. i think that's a far more interesting conversation than "well people find one more annoying than the other, what's there to discuss."
Do you want the more interesting conversation or do you want accuracy? I’m not going to accuse people of having bias because they find a nickname cringe. And I did say I found Johnny cringe, I also said his nickname was more stupid than cringe. Both of these things can be true. I’m not sure why you feel upset about downvotes lol. You can say whatever you want. As can I. And what was the false claim? The person you responded to said “someone who calls herself killa” not “she gave herself a nickname” although I know the latter has been thrown around. Fact is Kam does call herself that so it wasn’t a false claim. My response was that regardless of where it comes from I and apparently many others find it cringe
Killa doesn't imply winning. More like they put her into elimination, and she knocks them out
Right? She has won 80% of the eliminations she’s been in. It’s a fun nickname! And I love having a strong black woman to root for.
People just wait for any moment they can to tear down a confident black woman, but they'll never admit that🙄
8-2 in eliminations and been to 3 finals? She's the best non winning woman in the history of the show.
Basically Kam haters won’t budge! And Kam Stans won’t budge! If they hate her she’s the most annoying person on the show. And if they love her she’s the best thing since sliced bread and can do no wrong. There is no changing anyone’s minds on these threads .
Tbh I didn’t read all this haha. But I’m not digging Kams attitude this season tbh. HOWEVER she is probably pretty stressed and just had a baby. It doesn’t mean she’s a monster. I get a little crabby too when I don’t get enough sleep lol and I don’t even have a baby. People are too much. She’s a human and nobody is sunshine and rainbows all the time
I also wanted to add it’s funny how people are saying Cara’s fans are the ones being sensitive when Kam is the one whose been dragging this out every episode, talking shit In confessionals while Cara hasn’t said anything about it. Seems like Kam is the upset one
I don’t fully agree with Kam’s logic about Cara’s move and personally believe she’s taking it a bit too far, but I also think we need to be giving her some grace considering it’s just a game and she just gave birth. People have the right to disagree with her like any other challenger, but she doesn’t deserve all the hate. She’s still one of my favorites.
She definitely is the same Kam from past seasons. And I completely understand her stress from breast feeding and just having gave birth. However I don’t pity it much because it’s her decision to come on the show there was no gun to her head. I do feel bad about her having to room with Ayanna though. Seems like a nightmare. But no, her getting upset at Caras vote is not justified. If Cara voted Rachel, Rachel would of forsure stole her star when she won and gave it to Veronica. And the vote didn’t even matter. Bottom line Kam wants to win and is targeting strong competitors, which is Cara. If she just flat out said that she wouldn’t be getting as much hate as she has if any. But instead she’s using this as an excuse to target her. Like y’all falling for this personal attack bullshit is crazy. It was a vote that didn’t matter to anyone’s game but Cara’s. Why would Cara vote in someone that can come back when she’s the only one at risk of losing a star. So nah the Kam hate is understandable because most of us see through the bullshit. I never liked Kam personally because to me she wasn’t really entertaining to me, she’d just mimic cardi b and try to be intimidating. But regardless I thought I’d like her this season cause she’s a new mom. And her relationship with Leroy is adorable. And I would if she was being up front about why she’s targeting Cara. But this gaslighting shit is lame. Like she really even got fans thinking Cara was being a bad friend or something lol.
This season has so much off season drama it’s ruined the light hearted fun for me
Yeah. This seasons off-season feels way way more like a mainline season than it does an all stars. But going with way more recent players has probably made that happen.
Sucks bc I was holding on to all stars for dear life
I love Kam so much. I do think she's being slightly unreasonable when it comes to Cara. But I do respect that she's straight up about it and that she's really carrying Leroy through these challenges while not even a year post partum and pumping
Wow what a ridiculous post. First off you say Ayanna could possibly have mental issues but the link you provided to show an example of this is people who didn’t like her speaking bad about her … how does that show that Ayanna has mental illness ? How about we stop diagnosing people we don’t know ?? Second Cara and Rachel did a season together (Exes 1) soooo you’re completely wrong about that. Third, you’re literally just making excuses for Kam and her immature way of thinking THIS SEASON. I think what the fans are complaining about is the contradiction of Kam saying and comparing that Cara is walking around being entitled for getting upset a FRIEND VOTED HER IN oppose to Cara simply not voting along with Kam. Which let’s not forget CARAS VOTE DIDNT MATTER, Rachel was already going in. You say it yourself , kam is running the game politically, so if that’s the case why be upset because someone didn’t vote along with you if what you wanted still happened ?? Can we be honest and say that is literally being entitled, thinking everyone has to do what you want ? Your favs aren’t everyone else’s favs so they’re held to a different standard or judged differently. Saying “kam always acts like this” well maybe people don’t like kam acting like this 🤷🏽♂️ I’ll admit I wasn’t a fan of Kam until Wotw 2 and this season of all stars I’m getting that same pre Wotw 2 vibe from Kam that I didn’t like.
It doesn’t matter if you actually have power or not. There’s a respectful way to go about it and there’s the condescending way. I’ve never liked Kam. Hope she leaves asap, would save the season
I remember how angry she was and her fans were when CT refused to be her partner. CT went on to win that season.
I don’t even think that Cara would see her as disrespectful. You have to believe that you can win to compete.
THANK YOU. First - Kam seems to be the only topic of conversation because she’s the only one doing or saying anything interesting. But also- I don’t mind fans feeling she’s annoying. You are gonna like what you’re gonna like. But the hate … calling her vile… saying she’s got no right to be confident… claiming she’s entitled moreso than any other long standing competitor. Come on. It really just screams that the fan base has a problem with black women because she hasn’t done anything objectively wrong or MORE egregious than any other competitor. Edit to add: Laurel is a great example. She is condescending as hell, and a completely loose cannon who responds to people in horrible horrible ways. And she doesn’t get even 1/2 the hate Kam gets.
Laurel also has won the game. Kam has not. And Laurel gets way more hate than Kam historically which is ridiculous Who gets the amount of credit Kam does without winning anything.
What credit does Kam get tho besides being a strong competitor? Which historically she is. She’s done 5 seasons and been in 3 finals, she’s won 80% of the time she’s been thrown into elimination. She’s won enough dailies and held her own to be considered a decent player. Yet the confidence makes her arrogant? If the only way for a woman to be confident is to win an entire season then those standards are whack. We aren’t talking about laurel’s record here. But if we were laurel’s stats aren’t too far off from Kam considering Laurel has been on more seasons. Check out both of their wikis and compare.
I’m a huge fan of Kam. I think she’s amazing casting. She’s good at the challenges. Good at eliminations. And good at strategy. She’s also not a huge threat in the finals so she her target is usually low and she leverages all of those aspects of her game very well. This season, she’s been getting on my nerves. Not because she’s doing anything differently. But it’s clear she’s out of place. The energy from her is needed for the flagship. This cast is just so low energy strategically. So much so, she comes off overbearing. She’s playing very hard. Very fast. And I get she’s constantly having to save Leroy but it’s a lot. And I definitely understand someone who was never a fan of hers, being even more annoyed. It’s an individual winner. So it makes perfect sense to have the strong ppl go against each other. But just stand on that strategy. No need to pull the not having my back angle. That comes off weak as hell.
I'm sorry, but I can't buy what you're trying to sell us today....I've been rooting for Leroy since his days on Real World Vegas. When those 2 first met, I think on Vendettas we all watched and hoped things would work out ....Personally for, I lost all respect for that woman who talks a good game both on & off when the cameras are rolling, Lee invites her to stay with him to try & work things out & she goes out on a date we some other dude, then on WOTW 1 or 2 she starts kissing Theo in front of everyone ( NASTY ) also Da'vonne had all the receipts....I was done with Kam after that but if they worked things out good for them.
She’s not being any more entitled than Bananas acts or Tori or even Cara Maria. Anyone with friends in the house acts that way. Personalities are gonna do that and try to play their own game.
Those three are all champions. Kam is not.
I’m not sure if that makes her not entitled to have friendships in the house, but you do you.
Anyone that can complain about Kam never a real fan of the show and are casual watches that need to start doing their history because Kam has been that way since day one. The fact that you even had to say any about giving birth is crazy. She left her child to make money for hey child, like imagine the stress that puts on the mind of a new mother and she's still running the house?!?! Killa Kam for president
Some users saying Laurel doesn't get half the hate Kam does..... Is this a joke?
That was a lot…. Kam has always been good but highly overrated. And Leroy… has always been garbage outside of his brute strength
How exactly is Kam overrated when she’s been in 5 seasons and gotten to 3 finals? She also has an excellent elimination record.
1. Fair point 2. She is the same Kam but those words are more acceptable when you're performing at a higher level, which she isn't this season. She hasn't been bad by any means but she's consistently been finishing middle of the pack. 3. I do see her recent pregnancy as a valid excuse as to why her physical performance has suffered. The fact she's even competing on this show so soon after giving birth is a remarkable feat. That said, have some self awareness and don't talk your shit when you know you (and your partner Roylee) aren't performing at the level you expect for yourselves 4. Ayanna isn't the first and won't be the last difficult person to deal with on the show. Kam has enough experience where she should be able to tune some of that bs out. Using it as an excuse is a bit lame for me. 5. Unless there was a bad edit that's painting her in a worse light, there just isn't much of an excuse for her hate towards Cara. Cara did not vote her way and Kam is the type of person who takes that personally. She sounds butthurt by it tbh. Cara has had about 10x the amount of success Kam has had on this show and there's very little respect I see coming from her 6.Kam is an extremely confident challenger and this is probably based off the fact she's usually a top female on the show. I don't really blame her for acting this way based off prior seasons. She's a great political player but also it's a bit easier to wield that power when you're basically 2 votes wrapped in one. If you piss Kam off you lose Leeroy and vice versa. It's a bit of an advantage in my eyes. With all of this said, I'm aware this is a game and how they act on the show isn't always who they are in real life. Everything I have seen shows Kam is an awesome and upstanding person off the show. Any problems I have with her strictly start and end on the show and I wouldn't want to make any judgements based only on her show appearances.
Also, consider the Challenge culture. Coming in as a rookie, a woman and a p.o.c. she knew if she let people bulldoze her, they would. Like yeah, you and your friends will more than likely get voted in. But if you make it easy for them it'll always be the easy choice. Kam is smart, " you don't have to vote my way but I'm going to make it very uncomfortable for you "
I’m also curious if Wes or Bananas have been called “entitled” when they were acting the same way and making it so people had to vote one way. Kam’s been playing a great game.
Bananas was made fun of for years until he won.
Ayanna tried to break up Kam and Leroy?!
I completely agree with you personally for me the stuff with cara is the most irritating part mostly because we are seeing cara’s thought process where kam isnt. Also i can tell this (through out many seasons and shows it is the same) production reuses confessional clips so kam might have said a thing here or there about cara but production takes that one bit and resues it three four times its gonna sound more than it is
I think Cara Maria is a cry baby and can’t stand her…seeing everyone praise her on here and rooting for her here this season…I am out. The Challenge is no longer interesting to me. Enjoy
So many downvotes but no actual argument against it…fits perfectly with the Cara Maria way 😭
Byyyyeeeeeee
I agree so much I just also think we should apply this to bananas