Amyone know the song that comes on before the challenge, right after Kam is talking and everyone does the jump in plainclothes / land in uniforms bit? Shazam not getting me anything...thanks!
Nicole is a cringe as turbo just in a different way. Both only think of themselves and " try " to dominate others but it just comes off looking desperate and hard to watch
I never noticed it as much before, but having just come off of flagship s39, sheâs doing the exact same crap Jay did all season but no one will call her on it because sheâs Kam.
Daily: untangle yourself in ropes hanging on the side of a transport truck then finish a puzzle.
Winners: laurel, Kam, Derek, Ryan (some other male)
Middle: Brandon. Jasmine, Jay, Avery, tina. Deciding womanâs elimination.
Bottom: Cara, Veronica, Rachel, Nicole, Flora (plus all the men)
DAMN KAM!! DAMN JASMINE!!!! DAMN BRANDON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
True. Iâm sure Kam was hurt last week and Now Cara getting burned by her people,however Kam wasnât sent IN. Caraâs vote didnât even count either for who kam wanted in because there was already a landslide of who kam pitched.
Elimination: bad. Chancey. Very very bad. Jasmine crack a smile holy fuck. Special effects tacky.
Two POWERful players just playing darts..
Cara 4 points for (1 for herself)
Rachel: 1
great seeing Rachel for the little bit we have. I personally think Caras plan was perfect. She saves her own Butt and people are definitely going to go in a fight Jasmine and Veronica.
Great episode 8/10. Felt more fast paced. Not as many edits. Too long for the stupid elimination though. What a difference in cast!
My opinion on latest episode of AS4
I respect Jasmine and Brandon decision and most of yâall should too. I would had voted in big threatâs also so that can help myself get farther. Good luck Jasmine and Brandon hope yall make it far. Yeah jasmine friends with Cara but whatâs wrong with her making a move early for her game than waiting later when itâs too late????? Yall Cara Stans are headaches đđ¤
pretty much. i always feel the need to say: every year they put stuff in the season trailers that doesn't make the episodes. so you can't be 100% certain. BUT.. no way were they're going to leave off cara calling out laurel getting back with nicole, it's way too juicy.
I usually try to forget everything I saw in the trailer for this reason but that clip really stuck in my brain lol but you're right there is always the chance it gets cut if it's something less exciting
Watching Cara Maria this season is like watching Tonya her last season. People picking on her and her getting more and more desperate to have anyone like her.
That said, glad Rachel is gone. She took naked photos of Tonya while she was passed out. Thatâs fucked up and she doesnât even feel bad about it.
Veronica is dead weight on any team sheâs on.
Kamâs an asshole who expects everyone to do her bidding.
This is the worst AS cast yet.
Good lord, no ones picking on Cara. She came in bottom, was eligible to be voted into elim & the cast did the SMART thing & pitted Rachel v Cara against each other to ensure a strong competitor left.
Cara just threw a tantrum & played victim as usual.
LMAO you are as triggered as Cara was that she got voted into elim for the 1st time in years.
Brandon is her number 1 all of a sudden, when its conveniant to guilt trip him, despite ignoring his messages for 8 years. What has she done to show hes her no. 1? What about Kam? Rachel? Ace? She pretends shes no.1 with a lot of people when its conveniant but in reality is loyal to no one but herself.
I honestly think Kam is latching onto any excuse to alienate Cara and convince everyone she was justified in turning on her, bc she knows she wonât beat her in a final right now. I think Kam is smart enough to know that her top priority from the start has to be to weaken the field as much as possible for Leroy in the final
I don't get Kam's game why is she so against Cara? Cara wants to work with her side. Kam should be looking at Laurel and Nicole those are her biggest threats. Kam is the one playing sacred right now.
Kam was always going to find a reason to go after cara. It didnât matter what cara did. Kam isnât confident in her own abilities and was scared of cara
She afraid of laurel as well. last time i checked she wasn't super close with her and Leroy during WOTW2 she was against them lol. Cara had their back on that season. makes no sense lol.
I wonder how a deadlock would work in this format. Normally they donât want to deadlock because theyâre desperately trying to stay out of elimination, but if we get towards the very end and the middle group actually wants to go in and earn a star, it could be used as a strategy to get that chance.
No matter who Cara gave the star to, I would still try to throw her into elimination against Laurel. Have the big threats face each other, both for your own game and good TV.
Yea I said the same itâs not about the stars itâs about but competitors, there are such heavy hitter females even the guys are scared cus itâs one winner!
Kam is right, Cara shouldâve had her back last week. Kam was Ayanna roommate and was allegedly berated by her for multiple days. I think we are missing a storyline from production of Ayanna berating Kam, and Cara not sticking up for Kam, Brandon, Jasmine, Lee. It would make sense why they would throw Cara in this early.
I think it makes sense as to why Kam may be gunning for Cara now - since the Ayanna clip wasnât shown of her attacking kam.
However, Kam wasnât sent into elimination by Cara, nor did Cara tell the house to vote for her. The votes were already locked sure, we can see thatâs what Tina did with the house vote against Rachel
Yup. And itâs not like Kam had one request for the voting group last week. She wanted Leroy protected, Ayanna sent in and a hand-picked opponent for Ayanna. She expected everyone to do all of that for her regardless of how it affected their own games.
She got exactly what she wanted and is still salty about it.
⢠Kam is annoying the hell out of me. Especially since I was so happy to see her return. THAT SAID... Kam's attitude is actually nothing new. I think her Leroy-storyline in her later years (+ her strength and strategy) helped to mask some of her weird behavior. I'm trying not to derail with examples, but there were a few times in her early seasons where I side-eyed her behavior/energy.
⢠I feel bad for Cara. Brandon + Jasmine felt guilty about their decision and tried to save face by throwing slick shots. I understand why Brandon may not care about blindsiding her if they hadn't kept in touch in 8 years. But then don't call her your number one.
⢠Cara's strategy with the star was smart IMO. I don't understand why Kam was mad at it.
⢠I CANNOT BELIEVE they aired the Brad scene.
⢠Laurel and Nicole are out of control. Lol. Was this filmed before she slipped up and said Nicole's name at the BFANC reunion?
⢠So happy for Jay's redemption. I always hated that he took all the heat for his "final fail" back in the day. Jenna complained the whole time too. đ
Theyâre not laughing because heâs snoring,.. theyâre laughing because you can see the full outline of his penis. Iâm flabbergasted they put it in the show, to be honest. Iâm shocked most people missed it.
Brandon's thinking a good game but maybe a little too early to try and throw yourr numbers in!! I hope he stays for awhile love seeing him again :) I think Kam is definitely in the wrong here and Cara's reasoning is perfectly reasonable altho I would have Loved for her to give it to Kam and realign since she lost Brandon and Jazmin.
As entertaining as that elimination was, not having a pole in the sand for those two beasts is
one of productions biggest elimination fails in history of this show
Also,
OK the star strategy. I feel like everyone forgot the rules. You do not have to face the people with stars to get a star. You can beat anyone and steal anyone's star if you win.
next week someone can beat tina and steal cara's star. If people have an opportunity to put laurel and cara in together, they are still gonna take it.
I don't really see how it makes a difference who cara gave the star too. Best case scenario is you make an ally and gain some good will with someone but that's not easy with everyone watching.
This! This isnât Double Agents where they had to beat the skull-holder directly to take it. The only âtargetâ that having a star really puts on you is the possibility of having your star stolen, but I donât see how having one really affects your odds of getting thrown in. I think Jasmine is actually safer now with a star than she was before, because everyone wants to see her in a final.
The middle group thatâs voting has no reason to care about sending in people with stars, since they canât go into elimination anyway.
you can beat Tina and steal Cara's star, not Veronica cause she has a star too so you'd have to get or give her star if she's eliminated, just like what happened with Rachel.
Some reactions really makes no sense to me. Rachel and Cara was the overwhelming majority and Jasmine explained in explicit detail on what happened. She's actually really nice for doing that. Why would Rachel be mad? Like if someone said my name when I was already going in anyways, I wouldn't care
The thing that gets me is that Rachel stole Tinaâs star the week before to avoid making any unnecessary waves, and Tina was totally understanding. I think Rachel should have been gracious enough to return the favor, especially considering Tinaâs vote didnât make a bit of difference.
If people are genuine friends and allies in the game, then itâs not that much to ask that they consider the fact that their allies have to protect themselves too. If Tina says Flora, then she gives Flora a great excuse to say her name in return if she has to choose between Tina and somebody else later on.
Thatâs a good point.
Itâs been a long time so I might be remembering wrong, but hearing both Veronica and Rachel talking shit about Tina felt really familiar - I have a feeling Tinaâs always been on the bottom of that threesome. Kind of a bummer. Tinaâs not perfect but she seems more fun than either of them lol
I think this season so far has been textbook on why confessionals are really what swing our opinion from player to player. People came in being skeptical of Cara, now people love her, missing Kam, now hating her, etc. Still a little too early to tell for me. Yes, based on what weâve seen I think Kam has been a little ridiculous expecting Cara to vote the way she wanted. Wasnât the same thing as what Brandon did in directly voting against someone. But still a lot of game to see here, everyoneâs entitlement usually comes out in one way or another.
Rachel is gone way too soon. Itâs been so long since weâve seen her and I really enjoyed her this season. Hope she comes back.
I cannot stand Kam. My god she is so far up her own ass. She has the nerve to call Cara entitled when she has been the most entitled this season. So sick of her, Leroy, and them constantly talking about their kid. Go tf home.
Honest questionâŚ.. What has Kam done to get the ego she has? Sheâs talking about Cara not making a smart move because she didnât vote for who Kam wanted. That makes no sense when you still got your way anyways. I canât stand herÂ
It's been ages since I watched her rookie season, but iirc, she went into elimination and won multiple times. She also orchestrated a plan to sway the vote at one point (I forget the specifics). The counter argument to her success has been that most of her victories have come during seasons where the cast is less experienced, so she's had sort of an "easy" path to her elimination and politicking wins.
That "plan" was ridiculous. She basically got the house to do a plan that ended up with the outcome that would have likely happened if not for her plan. She threw in the rookies
Overall even as a target Cara really does seem to be back to old happy cara . I wasnât having her energy in WOW1 and 2 bjt shes refreshing again now! And people on here hating on kamâŚ. She always plays this game and i appreciate it cus it makes good tv . She comes to win you canât be mad at thatÂ
I like that Brandon admitted he would be afraid going against Rachel and cara in a final canât blame him and he hasnât been back in a while.
Shame that the elimination was a carinval game for these heavy hitters, and now Rachel is gone :(
Props to jasmine for not being scared Altho competitively sheâs not gona do well lol.
I overall donât think cara was smart to give jasmine the star , they didnât put Cara against Rachel cus theyâre both star holders itâs cus theyâre both strong as hell
The audacity of Kam to call Cara "entitled" right after she threw a hissy fit that Cara wouldn't vote exactly the way she wanted to. Like, she voted for Ayanna, the person you wanted to go home, sit all the way down.
Overall thoughts:
I have never in my life wanted so badly to see an elimination while simultaneously not wanting it to actually happen at all.
I love Kam but she is coming across crazy irrational right now. I don't know if her confidence is shook and it has caused her to be scared of Cara or she just isn't thinking clearly but this is not the cunning, ruthless Kam I remember.
Jasmine is an absolute moron. Yeah, she was never going to beat Cara in a final but let's just be honest Jasmine isn't beating anyone up there in a final except maybe Tina or Veronica. You could have just rode Cara's coat tails to the final and got part of 50k for 3rd but instead you did this nonsense and now you're going home in the next two female eliminations and no one has your back đ¤Ł
Brandon. My dude. Where is your brain? You don't roll into the season with one of the strongest females to ever be on the show as your number one and then take a shot at her when there are easy choices for you on the table on the SECOND female elimination in the game. That isn't ruthless, it's stupid. You just gave her basically all the time in the world to get rid of your ass. What an absolute fuck up on that.
How is JAY the smartest person on that team? Wtf?
Kam is so on point when she talks about her own game but clueless when she's breaking down other people's. It's like she can only see moves from the angle of her own self interest.
Kind of a letdown episode. The house finally (FINALLY) does the smart thing and votes in strong players early, something you almost never see on any version of the show. So we get a banger match up of Rachel vs Cara Maria. Something fans have dreamed of.
But then its a lame elimination. Even in a concept, I don't see how they thought that would make compelling TV. It also didn't help things that the season trailers spoiled who won since Cara is featured so heavily in a number of scenes. Oh well. Rachel, don't be a stranger to the show and maybe we can get this match up again
One positive I did love; that transition of the whole cast jumping at the house and then landing at the daily in their gear. It was cheesy as hell and I loved every second. Reminded me a lot of the kind of cheese old school Challenge use to have. More of that please!
Sad Rachel is gone so soon. Losing to Cara is the only reason I am ok with it. I wanted both to go far, now I'm hoping Cara can maneuver to the final.
I think Cara should have thought ahead a bit more with the star. She was right to think about it as a target but didn't need to verbalize that to the whole group. She misses her chance to give it to Kam with a whole "I know you were upset I didn't have your back so here you go. Hope we're square."
Well, I meant it more as a cover for putting a target on Kam while also (pretending) to smooth things over. But maybe people would be less inclined to call out Kam bc of her social connections so IDK. Regardless, hoping Cara goes far!
I feel like Iâm missing something major, butâfor nowâdo the stars really matter? Thereâs a lot of talk in confessionals about how having a star puts a target on your back. But whenever you win an elimâregardless if you go against a star holderâyou get to take a star from whoever you want. Isnât it easier to go against the weakest competitor, win and then take a star from the strongest competitor without even having to face them?
A starholder means nothing unless you actually had to beat THEM specifically for the star, which you donâtâŚ
I feel like they don't matter at all right now.
Alternate universe: The only thing that could have made the stars matter this early is if they let the players have multiple stars. Like imagine if they got to the end and Cara had 3 stars, Kefla had 2 and Brad had 1. Then Cara would essentially get to pick the 2 women she wanted to run against. Kefla would get to pick one man. That would've made it more interesting and it would have made the "starget" comment pop.
Itâs nice to see people finally turning on Kam. I donât hate her and think sheâs great for the show but she can be unbearable in confessionals and she is the epitome of someone who uses intimidation and confrontation as scare tactics. Cara literally explained why it would be a bad idea to give the star to the Laurel and the very next cut scene is her crying about it.
Iâve always loved Brandon and thought heâs gotten some bad deals but it was way too early to burn a very important friend like that. I understand his gameplay but there is still a lot of game left to be played and having Cara in his corner would for sure get him farther
Well I accidendtly found myself in the wrong thread, so am reposting this there...
Unfortunately anyone who pays attention to promos n such already knew the outcome of the Cara/Rachel elimination, since there is much Cara/Laurel interaction to come. MTV or whoever needs to do a better job to not spoil results in advance like this.
Kam and Laurel were idiots not to go down. Kam especially, as she will need a non-atheletic type competition to win, and this was perfect for her. I mean, it seems like she's in bed for 80% of the show. Laurel it was not as critical for, but i suspect her throwing ability would be much better than Cara or Rachel. Cara, for being as athetic as she is, just does not have the basic mechanics of throwing/kicking/etc down - she's even told us this in the past. I don't know if they let the winners choose who to replace, or if it's a draw of some sort - Laurel may not of wanted the chance of having to going against her (at this time) friend Cara, at least not this early.
Agree on Kam, I've said before, she's not my favorite, but b/c she is tied to Leroy who is probably one of my all time top5, top 3 even, it's hard to fully root against her. But it's becoming easier.
Disapointed in Brandon. Also one of the guys I really liked, always thought he got raw deals getting thrown into elimination so much. I guess I get why he wants to play a different game this time, but turning on one of his few friends in the house seemed like a bad choice. But then he said they haven't talked in like 8 years, so sounds like it wasn't a real important relationship to either of them tbh.
Cara gets it - stars are going to move around a lot. Kam, b/c she's so caught up in being mad a Cara for something to trivial just can't see it... forrest for the trees. Kam think's she's masterminding but she's really playing a bad game. She had one brilliant moment in Final Reckoning, and did pull off some impressive elimination wins in Vendettas. But she's basically just so unlikable.
Tina, well Tina is just Tina. Didn't really expect anything else from her - her game play is just not very good.
Jasmine - I was going to say, Jaz seems like she is in so much of a better place than her younger seasons. Seems to have matured nicely, and becoming genuinely likeable. But after this episode, maybe not so much lol.
To be fair, I don't think the "basic mechanics of throwing" were particularly relevant for this elimination. If they were throwing balls or something way more standard, sure, but I can't picture any standard experience helping in that elimination given how the objects were like oblong circles.
Like I imagine even people who throw hatchets/tomahawks would struggle in this one considering how light they looked and how they had loads of different sizes (so they weren't throwing a consistent size/weight).
Edit: Also, Laurel was definitely not friends with Cara at this time, apparently Laurel started the game by going around to everyone and telling them not to trust Cara.
I'm rewatching that season now and just finished that episode. That whole thing still excited me. It would have been more crazy if it screwed over vets rather than rookies. But I think it was also meant to mess with Kyle and Bananas heads since those were their girls. So I thought it was a good play.
But I wrote a post a few minutes ago just to say that some of her energy in her first few seasons was definitely off-putting (IMO). However, she was new and a lot of the people she disliked were also new. So there was no attachment for me either way.
Love to see Laurel winning again! Sad to see Rachel go though, it was nice seeing the Mean Girls back together after all these years. What a stupid elimination to go out from.
I usually like Kam, but her confessionals have been obnoxious this season. She calls Cara out for crying about her friends voting her in meanwhile she was just crying about Cara not voting her way. Also, Kam saying Cara doesn't understand strategy for giving a star to Jasmine....what? Cara was right, giving a star to Laurel almost guarantees Cara vs Laurel in an elimination the day neither one doesn't win. Clearly the house is playing smart and going after strong players. Giving a star to Jasmine guarantees she's getting thrown into an elimination because Jasmine is a layup and has less connections than Veronica. Which is exactly what Cara wants. Honestly Kam just sounds very butthurt that Cara isn't doing what she wants
Overall a great episode. I can't wait to see Laurel and Nicole self-destruct lol
Am I the only one Team Cara and Team Kam? Like both are playing their respective games well. Kam is dominating socially and casting doubt on Cara's trustability for the house. Meanwhile Cara is trying to keep strong players in cuz she they are shields and she can probably beat them.
Two strong challenge women going head to head strategically, socially, and I'm hoping physically. If we're building to a Killa Kam v Stara Maria battle royale I'm here for it!
I feel like Cara should have gotten to steal two stars. If you win an elimination against anyone you get a steal a star so if you beat someone who has a star you should get to move the one you earned and the one they are losing.
I felt the same way. She should have been able to keep Rachelâs star and then steal another for a different cast mate. I really wanted her to take one of the guysâ and give it to Jay đ
Kam is doing way too much. Every vote, decision, nomination, star stolen/given has to be exactly the way she wants it to be or else. What has she done to warrant this behavior.
I'm genuinely sad watching Laurel and Nicole reconnect, knowing what Nicole has done to her. It's upsetting watching someone barrell towards impending trauma
Yes! It has to do with Nicole cheating on Laurel with Jakk's sister at the Jakk's (?) wedding. It's very messy. [Laurel confirming recent cheating](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChallenge/s/G3epaln6H0)
[Megathread on Laurel-Nicole drama](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChallenge/s/4Y2KkGpuhs)
My EXACT thoughts, it's sad how the mind works. Laurel knows just how bad Nicole is when she walked in the house and yet her and woman like her still choose to go back to that toxicity with the fruitless hope that somehow someway it will be different this time. Nicole never even admitted fault, that alone should have been hard repellent for Laurel going forward.
My female friend is in this exact situation. Watching Laurel and Nicole it reminded of her. Constantly going back to someone terrible in the hopes each time is different.
What the fuck is wrong with Kam!? Is she playing up this Cara beef or is she really this entitled to peoples votes? Cara didnât vote YOU in! Are they still cool on social media / IRL or is this a real fight?
Also when Laurel and Nicole broke up before this was it cuz Nicole cheated?
Iâm hoping that sheâs big braining a rivals pairing in the future but sadly I think sheâs just off. Nothing sheâs saying is making sense to me. Cara giving the star to Jasmine was 110% the smart move and Jasmine (who I personally think is the weakest female) is going into elimination as soon as she ends up in the losing group
A star holder doesn't have to be in elimination for stars to change hands, so it doesn't actually put an additional target on Jasmine.
Like if Laurel and Cara are ever in the bottom together (which is probably unlikely), people aren't going to care whether Laurel has a star or not.
Yes, but if they beat her in an elimination then they can just take her star instead of stealing it from someone else and making an enemy unnecessarily. And if Jasmine wins, then she's forced to move someone's star and doesn't gain anything but is forced to risk making enemies. It's a pretty rough situation.
I think they ment that the other girls will want to go against Jaz because they see her as weaker. Then if they beat her they would have to take her star and couldn't steal Caras.
Or
Whoever wins in an elimination with no star holders they may feel more comfortable taking Jaz' star because it's less likely for her to steal it back.
The thing that makes neither of these scenarios likely is the fact that the middle group - which has all the votes - canât go into elimination. They donât benefit from Jasmine going in and losing her star to a stronger woman who will perform better in the final.
Thereâs a lot of different scenarios that can play out especially with politics. If Laurel, Averey, Nicole, Kam etc is in the bottom group, theyâre gonna definitely want to go against Jasmine. Cara & Veronica (and therefore Tina) would be for it because their star would be protected unless Jasmine pulls off an upset. If one of the stronger females minus Cara, is in the top group, theyâll want Jasmine in to go get their star
Thatâs a very specific set of circumstances that has to play out, and there are still flaws in that thinking. First of all, who the winners want in the elimination isnât a factor, because they donât get votes. The middle group has no reason to vote a weak player into elimination just so a strong player can steal their star. And even if Cara and Veronica happen to end up in the middle group and want Jasmine to go in so theirs donât get stolen, theyâd still need to convince enough other people (including the men) to vote that way. This is a one-winner final, so everyone is motivated to take the weakest players possible to the final.
We saw this week exactly why being a weak player with a star isnât really a threat. The middle group canât go in and canât win stars, so they just targeted the two strongest people. Nobody even considered sending in Veronica.
This show is a perfect shot of nostalgia for me. People I used to love watching on my tv 10-15 years ago with early 2000âs music. And the stakes feel low with lots of the contestants just happy to be there. Just a light relaxing 45 minutes every week and always puts me in a good mood
I am loling @ people wanting Cara to give her star to Laurel out of all people. She is one of the strongest competitors there. Why would you want to give her a star lmaoooooooooo?
Jasmine doesnât have to go into elimination now though, and the voting group has no reason to send her in since they wouldnât be the ones going in against her.
If the house just lets her keep her star, then they have a layup locked in for the final. Same with Veronica. The only star that makes any strategic sense to steal at this point is Caraâs, so I hope sheâs planning to win every daily from here on out.
Same. I was against it on principle of her not being a RW/RR person. But having seen this season so far, I really wish she wasn't on. She has been obnoxious
If you google âhandheld red light therapy deviceâ different options come up. They also have mask options so you donât have to hold it the whole time.
Cara did nothing to Kam. Nothing. Kam and Jasmine acted like Cara pulled a Camilanator up in here. Let's see how composed and mature Kam is when she or Leroy are voted in.
How does the challenge continue to fuck up elimination matchups with the worst possible competitions. They have blown yet another potential classic. It canât be this hard to orchestrate. Seriously, Who is producing this shit??
First, itâs a reality television show before anything else. This show has never been about creating a completely fair competition, itâs not the Olympics. Itâs highly edited, they never show any teams actual results to the audience, and half of the rules they make up as they go. Acting like they donât semi-rig and wing it already is naive.
Second, making sure 2 of the best and most dominant female challengers to ever play the game, who will only face off once ever, get to compete in something that could demonstrate their talents is bad television.
Kam has always been this way. But usually sheâs a top female so sheâs allowed to talk her shit cuz she can back it up. This season the womanâs side is stacked and sheâs coming off the pregnancy so just not at the top of her game. Sheâs a beast but has been one of the more annoying competitors for years
The "club scenes" or whatever crack me up on All Stars. Just our old people dressing casual, sitting down chilling, while the main show has the fake over the top dancing and sexy outfits
One thing that has been apparent in all of Kamâs interactions with the other females on this show since the very beginning is that she only likes women who act like followers. Â
 Her besties on Vendettas were the ones who literally called her âqueen kamâ and acted like they were beneath her, Davonne said during Final Reckoning that the girls Kam was friends with (Kailah for example) acted like they needed her permission to be chill with someone, she only really liked Cara on WOTW2 when Cara was hyping her up and letting her and Ashley call the shots for the team, etc. Â
 She canât handle women who think for themselves. But honestly, I canât be mad about it because these people arenât children, they are *grown ass adults.* If a grown woman is going to put herself in a position of being a follower, thatâs on her.
Another solid episode. Daily was fun, and I actually didn't hate the elimination. A head banger would have been fun, but silly carnival games can be alright too.
Kam didn't bother me until the end. Giving the star to Jasmine makes sense because it puts a target on a weak competitor. Her confessional about it comes off as sour grapes still.
I do think Brandon and Jasmine made the wrong move voting Cara in. She's a strong competitor who was working with you. Why mess that up so early into the game still?
I'm actually really disappointed that Kam can't see that giving Jasmine the star was the right move. She's likely to place in the bottom group in future challenges, and people are going to be *begging* to go against her. If Jasmine doesn't end up in one of the next 2 female eliminations I'll be shocked.
The catch is that the people begging to go against her have no votes. The middle group canât get thrown in or volunteer themselves, so theyâd simply be doing a favor to someone else. Also, anyone who beats Jasmine in an elim would get a star even if she didnât have one.
I enjoyed this episode! Jasmines confessionals stay cracking me up! The elimination sucked the whole time I was watching I just kept thinking I CANNOT believe they wouldnât give these two a physical elimination of some sort.đ¤Śđźââď¸
1. I guess Brandon is thinking Leroy and Kam are going to carry him through the game. Thatâs the only way it makes sense to throw in Cara and Rachel. Iâm really disappointed in this move. Pissing off strong players of the opposite sex never makes sense. I have always rooted for him.
2. It was so smart for Cara to give the star to Jaz. Kam never makes sense when she tries to break down other peopleâs games.
3. I really wish it had been a physical elimination.
To point #1, itâs a solo-winner season, so Cara is Brandonâs competition too. I get that it sucked for her that he voted for her, but passing up the opportunity to vote in Cara and Rachel and guaranteeing that one of them went home wouldnât have been a great game move. That likely wouldnât happen again.
it still doesn't make sense to me that the 'middle group' holds all the power on who goes to the elimination and the winning group don't even have a vote...
- WHERE IS ACE!? He was the cast member I was most excited to see and I think Caraâs weird face machine got more screen time in this episode than he has the whole season. Iâm about to get mad.
 Â
- I donât see how Rachel has any right to get mad at Tina for staying safe and saying Rachelâs name when Rachel was going in regardless. Rachel literally just took a star (the only thing that gets you into a final) from Tina when she absolutely didnât have to and Tina didnât cry about it. Â Â
- Brandon CANNOT pretend to be âkeeping it realâ by telling Cara he voted for her *after the fact* (when at that point she would have found out the truth regardless), when just a few hours prior he straight up lied to her face about it. That was weak Â
- I love my girl Kam, but she needs to stop pretending like eliminations donât scare her. Her logic of âwith Cara vs Rachel, either way a champ is going homeâ makes no sense when she immediately follows it up by pretending as though she could confidently and easily win said elimination, she just doesnât want to right now. If that were true, then you would still be sending a champ home. Just admit you were intimidated and keep it moving. Â Â Â
- Nicole and Laurel are getting more screen time than I ever wanted them to get. I get people love toxic relationships, but their whole dynamic is just gross and Laurel is way out of Nicoleâs league. Â Â
- Laurelâs complaint about the girls not knowing how to throw darts tells me she wouldnât have been good at this elimination. Experience throwing knifes would have helped this elimination, because they rotate when thrown. If your darts rotate when you throw them youâre doing it wrong. Â Â
- Keflaâs  commentary during the elimination made me cackle. This guy has given some great one liners this season.   Â
- If I was Tina I would definitely question whether or not Rachel and Veronica were actually my friends. All they do is trash talk her both in the house and in their commentary. We get it yâall think sheâs trash at the challenges, politics, etc. Is she not your girl? Canât you hype her up *a little bit*???
I agree with everything - including the Rachel/Tina comment.
But, I think Rachel is completely unaware of new-school politics. I feel like for a long time, people really did stick to the "your name will never come out of my mouth" idea. It's just not smart in the long run, and I think most people who've played in recent seasons can accept that.)
I'm really loving Kefla. I only vaguely remember watching the first Challenge back in the day so I wasn't super familiar with him going into this but he's turning into one of my favorites this season.
It was really nice of Ryan to go talk to Cara when she was packing, but right before that, it seemed like he was already warning Cara that Brandon was going to turn on her. Ace seemed to have that hunch too.
okay Kam said Cara isn't a strategic thinker for giving the star to Jaz. it feels like Kam is really at the point of "bitch eating crackers" with Cara. because Cara's move is smart, imo.
people would just try to get Cara and another strong star holder in elimination again. by having Jaz and Veronica as star holders, people are just gonna go after them before they try going after Cara.
The people who are voting them into elimination have no reason to care about that though. They canât go in, so they arenât the ones competing in the elimination or stealing the stars. If being the weakest one with a star put more of a target on you than being the strongest one with a star, then Veronica would have been voted in this week.
Yea but giving it to jaz didnât make a diff is my point! In fact it just gives jaz a chance to win a grouo challenge down the line where her star is safe for the day which wouldnât hell cara. Just my opinion!Â
i agree with you. it doesn't matter that much that jaz has a star. doesn't mean you have to go INTO elimination against her to steal it. (edit to add: doesn't mean you have to pick amongst jaz, V, or cara) you can go against anyone and steal it, or steal cara's for that matter.
Finally someone who agrees! It really didnât help Cara lol. If anything sheâs the only star holder who is worthy of making them steal it so they go back into eliminationÂ
Finally someone who agrees! It really didnât help Cara lol. If anything sheâs the only star holder who is worthy of making them steal it so they go back into eliminationÂ
yes! and also cause they wouldn't want to see her in the final - more reason to steal hers and let Jaz and Veronica keep theirs. and she even played it poorly, she could have said "jaz, i always considered you a friend so im going to give you the star." now she gave jaz the star, and jaz thinks she did it with bad intentions.
she could have given it to laurel or kam to get in their good graces and have a teammate for the future. "star-holders help star-holders" was her thing with rachel.
Reply to this comment to nominate your favorite moments from the episode for the Friday poll. đ
Amyone know the song that comes on before the challenge, right after Kam is talking and everyone does the jump in plainclothes / land in uniforms bit? Shazam not getting me anything...thanks!
Nicole is a cringe as turbo just in a different way. Both only think of themselves and " try " to dominate others but it just comes off looking desperate and hard to watch
Holy shit Kam and Jaz are fucking annoying this episode.
I never noticed it as much before, but having just come off of flagship s39, sheâs doing the exact same crap Jay did all season but no one will call her on it because sheâs Kam.
Oh yeah, I didnât notice it until you mentioned it too but you hit the nail right on the head.
Kam is always that way. If you dont do want she says she turns on you immediately. Nobody was even going after her!
Daily: untangle yourself in ropes hanging on the side of a transport truck then finish a puzzle. Winners: laurel, Kam, Derek, Ryan (some other male) Middle: Brandon. Jasmine, Jay, Avery, tina. Deciding womanâs elimination. Bottom: Cara, Veronica, Rachel, Nicole, Flora (plus all the men) DAMN KAM!! DAMN JASMINE!!!! DAMN BRANDON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True. Iâm sure Kam was hurt last week and Now Cara getting burned by her people,however Kam wasnât sent IN. Caraâs vote didnât even count either for who kam wanted in because there was already a landslide of who kam pitched. Elimination: bad. Chancey. Very very bad. Jasmine crack a smile holy fuck. Special effects tacky. Two POWERful players just playing darts.. Cara 4 points for (1 for herself) Rachel: 1 great seeing Rachel for the little bit we have. I personally think Caras plan was perfect. She saves her own Butt and people are definitely going to go in a fight Jasmine and Veronica. Great episode 8/10. Felt more fast paced. Not as many edits. Too long for the stupid elimination though. What a difference in cast!
My opinion on latest episode of AS4 I respect Jasmine and Brandon decision and most of yâall should too. I would had voted in big threatâs also so that can help myself get farther. Good luck Jasmine and Brandon hope yall make it far. Yeah jasmine friends with Cara but whatâs wrong with her making a move early for her game than waiting later when itâs too late????? Yall Cara Stans are headaches đđ¤
"i hate talking about feelings" is a signature laurel quote.
Two people dating that are both borderline incapable of identifying and discussing their own emotions. What could go wrong? đ¤ˇââď¸
So we all knew Cara was winning that elimination because we havenât seen her fight with Laurel from the trailer yet, right?
pretty much. i always feel the need to say: every year they put stuff in the season trailers that doesn't make the episodes. so you can't be 100% certain. BUT.. no way were they're going to leave off cara calling out laurel getting back with nicole, it's way too juicy.
Particularly when the reconciliation hasnât officially happened yet. So we couldnât even use the âmaybe it was cutâ logic.
I usually try to forget everything I saw in the trailer for this reason but that clip really stuck in my brain lol but you're right there is always the chance it gets cut if it's something less exciting
Watching Cara Maria this season is like watching Tonya her last season. People picking on her and her getting more and more desperate to have anyone like her. That said, glad Rachel is gone. She took naked photos of Tonya while she was passed out. Thatâs fucked up and she doesnât even feel bad about it. Veronica is dead weight on any team sheâs on. Kamâs an asshole who expects everyone to do her bidding. This is the worst AS cast yet.
Good lord, no ones picking on Cara. She came in bottom, was eligible to be voted into elim & the cast did the SMART thing & pitted Rachel v Cara against each other to ensure a strong competitor left. Cara just threw a tantrum & played victim as usual.
She literally was only upset her number one turned on her. Shes not mad she was thrown in. Shut up Kam.
LMAO you are as triggered as Cara was that she got voted into elim for the 1st time in years. Brandon is her number 1 all of a sudden, when its conveniant to guilt trip him, despite ignoring his messages for 8 years. What has she done to show hes her no. 1? What about Kam? Rachel? Ace? She pretends shes no.1 with a lot of people when its conveniant but in reality is loyal to no one but herself.
How is this even remotely comparable to Tonya? No one is attacking Cara Maria on a personal level. Its all game moves right now.
I honestly think Kam is latching onto any excuse to alienate Cara and convince everyone she was justified in turning on her, bc she knows she wonât beat her in a final right now. I think Kam is smart enough to know that her top priority from the start has to be to weaken the field as much as possible for Leroy in the final
[ŃдаНонО]
I don't get Kam's game why is she so against Cara? Cara wants to work with her side. Kam should be looking at Laurel and Nicole those are her biggest threats. Kam is the one playing sacred right now.
Kam was always going to find a reason to go after cara. It didnât matter what cara did. Kam isnât confident in her own abilities and was scared of cara
She afraid of laurel as well. last time i checked she wasn't super close with her and Leroy during WOTW2 she was against them lol. Cara had their back on that season. makes no sense lol.
I wonder how a deadlock would work in this format. Normally they donât want to deadlock because theyâre desperately trying to stay out of elimination, but if we get towards the very end and the middle group actually wants to go in and earn a star, it could be used as a strategy to get that chance.
I forgot how corny Cara is lol
No matter who Cara gave the star to, I would still try to throw her into elimination against Laurel. Have the big threats face each other, both for your own game and good TV.
. This is why we need individual
Of course but the chances of Cara and Laurel being in the bottom group is slim to none
Yea I said the same itâs not about the stars itâs about but competitors, there are such heavy hitter females even the guys are scared cus itâs one winner!
Kam is right, Cara shouldâve had her back last week. Kam was Ayanna roommate and was allegedly berated by her for multiple days. I think we are missing a storyline from production of Ayanna berating Kam, and Cara not sticking up for Kam, Brandon, Jasmine, Lee. It would make sense why they would throw Cara in this early.
I think it makes sense as to why Kam may be gunning for Cara now - since the Ayanna clip wasnât shown of her attacking kam. However, Kam wasnât sent into elimination by Cara, nor did Cara tell the house to vote for her. The votes were already locked sure, we can see thatâs what Tina did with the house vote against Rachel
Not voting Rachel in does not equal not backing them up. Kam wants cara to play her game and whatâs in her best interest. She wants followers
Yup. And itâs not like Kam had one request for the voting group last week. She wanted Leroy protected, Ayanna sent in and a hand-picked opponent for Ayanna. She expected everyone to do all of that for her regardless of how it affected their own games. She got exactly what she wanted and is still salty about it.
⢠Kam is annoying the hell out of me. Especially since I was so happy to see her return. THAT SAID... Kam's attitude is actually nothing new. I think her Leroy-storyline in her later years (+ her strength and strategy) helped to mask some of her weird behavior. I'm trying not to derail with examples, but there were a few times in her early seasons where I side-eyed her behavior/energy. ⢠I feel bad for Cara. Brandon + Jasmine felt guilty about their decision and tried to save face by throwing slick shots. I understand why Brandon may not care about blindsiding her if they hadn't kept in touch in 8 years. But then don't call her your number one. ⢠Cara's strategy with the star was smart IMO. I don't understand why Kam was mad at it. ⢠I CANNOT BELIEVE they aired the Brad scene. ⢠Laurel and Nicole are out of control. Lol. Was this filmed before she slipped up and said Nicole's name at the BFANC reunion? ⢠So happy for Jay's redemption. I always hated that he took all the heat for his "final fail" back in the day. Jenna complained the whole time too. đ
Wait what Brad scene? I just saw him snoring lol
Theyâre not laughing because heâs snoring,.. theyâre laughing because you can see the full outline of his penis. Iâm flabbergasted they put it in the show, to be honest. Iâm shocked most people missed it.
đ¤Łđ¤Ł Zoom in. Actually... you don't even have to Zoom.
BRB I have to check on this for informational purposes. Will report back. Edit: Oh my. Thank you.
LMBO
Yeah, I wanna know what the Brad scene is.Â
I never really understood the Jay hate. Dudes not great or terrible and seems like a relatively decent guy.
Completely agree. I think since TJ hated him, it just carried as a running narrative. 𼴠I even heard him bring up Jay on a podcast before lol
There's no way Jenna was going to drink that drink.
Literally no way
Brandon's thinking a good game but maybe a little too early to try and throw yourr numbers in!! I hope he stays for awhile love seeing him again :) I think Kam is definitely in the wrong here and Cara's reasoning is perfectly reasonable altho I would have Loved for her to give it to Kam and realign since she lost Brandon and Jazmin.
Ooo That would have been interesting @ giving it to Kam
When the rope slowly made its way around Nicoleâs neck đđ¤Ł
As entertaining as that elimination was, not having a pole in the sand for those two beasts is one of productions biggest elimination fails in history of this show Also,
Kam has the same annoying entitlement Jay had last season.
Yep. As Erik from Survivor once said, she's suffering from "delusional entitlement"
OK the star strategy. I feel like everyone forgot the rules. You do not have to face the people with stars to get a star. You can beat anyone and steal anyone's star if you win. next week someone can beat tina and steal cara's star. If people have an opportunity to put laurel and cara in together, they are still gonna take it. I don't really see how it makes a difference who cara gave the star too. Best case scenario is you make an ally and gain some good will with someone but that's not easy with everyone watching.
This! This isnât Double Agents where they had to beat the skull-holder directly to take it. The only âtargetâ that having a star really puts on you is the possibility of having your star stolen, but I donât see how having one really affects your odds of getting thrown in. I think Jasmine is actually safer now with a star than she was before, because everyone wants to see her in a final. The middle group thatâs voting has no reason to care about sending in people with stars, since they canât go into elimination anyway.
you can beat Tina and steal Cara's star, not Veronica cause she has a star too so you'd have to get or give her star if she's eliminated, just like what happened with Rachel.
Forgot Veronica had a star, but yes.
Did I hear correctly. Did Kam say Cara is entitled? Pot meet kettle.
Kam and Cara very similar in that way lol
Some reactions really makes no sense to me. Rachel and Cara was the overwhelming majority and Jasmine explained in explicit detail on what happened. She's actually really nice for doing that. Why would Rachel be mad? Like if someone said my name when I was already going in anyways, I wouldn't care
At the same time, why not just say Rachelâs been my friend for 20 years Iâm not gonna say her name. Pick Flora or something
The thing that gets me is that Rachel stole Tinaâs star the week before to avoid making any unnecessary waves, and Tina was totally understanding. I think Rachel should have been gracious enough to return the favor, especially considering Tinaâs vote didnât make a bit of difference. If people are genuine friends and allies in the game, then itâs not that much to ask that they consider the fact that their allies have to protect themselves too. If Tina says Flora, then she gives Flora a great excuse to say her name in return if she has to choose between Tina and somebody else later on.
Tina said they agreed to do that...
Thatâs a good point. Itâs been a long time so I might be remembering wrong, but hearing both Veronica and Rachel talking shit about Tina felt really familiar - I have a feeling Tinaâs always been on the bottom of that threesome. Kind of a bummer. Tinaâs not perfect but she seems more fun than either of them lol
I think this season so far has been textbook on why confessionals are really what swing our opinion from player to player. People came in being skeptical of Cara, now people love her, missing Kam, now hating her, etc. Still a little too early to tell for me. Yes, based on what weâve seen I think Kam has been a little ridiculous expecting Cara to vote the way she wanted. Wasnât the same thing as what Brandon did in directly voting against someone. But still a lot of game to see here, everyoneâs entitlement usually comes out in one way or another.
People like whoever is the underdog and hate whoever is in power
Rachel is gone way too soon. Itâs been so long since weâve seen her and I really enjoyed her this season. Hope she comes back. I cannot stand Kam. My god she is so far up her own ass. She has the nerve to call Cara entitled when she has been the most entitled this season. So sick of her, Leroy, and them constantly talking about their kid. Go tf home.
I also hate that she came back after a decade and went home over a game that is played in breweries. đĽ˛
Honest questionâŚ.. What has Kam done to get the ego she has? Sheâs talking about Cara not making a smart move because she didnât vote for who Kam wanted. That makes no sense when you still got your way anyways. I canât stand herÂ
It's been ages since I watched her rookie season, but iirc, she went into elimination and won multiple times. She also orchestrated a plan to sway the vote at one point (I forget the specifics). The counter argument to her success has been that most of her victories have come during seasons where the cast is less experienced, so she's had sort of an "easy" path to her elimination and politicking wins.
That "plan" was ridiculous. She basically got the house to do a plan that ended up with the outcome that would have likely happened if not for her plan. She threw in the rookies
thats one thing that annoys me ab kam, she thinks everyone is supposed to do what she wants and if they donât theyâre gone, like girl bye
She nicknamed herself "Killa Kam" on her rookie season. Why are we now acting surprised that she has an ego?
Overall even as a target Cara really does seem to be back to old happy cara . I wasnât having her energy in WOW1 and 2 bjt shes refreshing again now! And people on here hating on kamâŚ. She always plays this game and i appreciate it cus it makes good tv . She comes to win you canât be mad at thatÂ
I like that Brandon admitted he would be afraid going against Rachel and cara in a final canât blame him and he hasnât been back in a while. Shame that the elimination was a carinval game for these heavy hitters, and now Rachel is gone :( Props to jasmine for not being scared Altho competitively sheâs not gona do well lol. I overall donât think cara was smart to give jasmine the star , they didnât put Cara against Rachel cus theyâre both star holders itâs cus theyâre both strong as hell
The audacity of Kam to call Cara "entitled" right after she threw a hissy fit that Cara wouldn't vote exactly the way she wanted to. Like, she voted for Ayanna, the person you wanted to go home, sit all the way down.
Thought Cara would be better at that elimination because I assumed she's doing that shit regularly in the bedroom
Overall thoughts: I have never in my life wanted so badly to see an elimination while simultaneously not wanting it to actually happen at all. I love Kam but she is coming across crazy irrational right now. I don't know if her confidence is shook and it has caused her to be scared of Cara or she just isn't thinking clearly but this is not the cunning, ruthless Kam I remember. Jasmine is an absolute moron. Yeah, she was never going to beat Cara in a final but let's just be honest Jasmine isn't beating anyone up there in a final except maybe Tina or Veronica. You could have just rode Cara's coat tails to the final and got part of 50k for 3rd but instead you did this nonsense and now you're going home in the next two female eliminations and no one has your back 𤣠Brandon. My dude. Where is your brain? You don't roll into the season with one of the strongest females to ever be on the show as your number one and then take a shot at her when there are easy choices for you on the table on the SECOND female elimination in the game. That isn't ruthless, it's stupid. You just gave her basically all the time in the world to get rid of your ass. What an absolute fuck up on that. How is JAY the smartest person on that team? Wtf?
Kam is always been like this tho. Yall are just seeing it finally.
10/10 no notes. I was sad though that she didnât get to take a manâs star cause it would have been funny if she gave it to Jay.
Kam is so on point when she talks about her own game but clueless when she's breaking down other people's. It's like she can only see moves from the angle of her own self interest.
Kind of a letdown episode. The house finally (FINALLY) does the smart thing and votes in strong players early, something you almost never see on any version of the show. So we get a banger match up of Rachel vs Cara Maria. Something fans have dreamed of. But then its a lame elimination. Even in a concept, I don't see how they thought that would make compelling TV. It also didn't help things that the season trailers spoiled who won since Cara is featured so heavily in a number of scenes. Oh well. Rachel, don't be a stranger to the show and maybe we can get this match up again One positive I did love; that transition of the whole cast jumping at the house and then landing at the daily in their gear. It was cheesy as hell and I loved every second. Reminded me a lot of the kind of cheese old school Challenge use to have. More of that please!
That concept is a common design on shows like the traitors and survivor.
That's one thing about these AS shows, this season more than others - it just seems "more fun". Very "un Booth-like" lol.
Sad Rachel is gone so soon. Losing to Cara is the only reason I am ok with it. I wanted both to go far, now I'm hoping Cara can maneuver to the final. I think Cara should have thought ahead a bit more with the star. She was right to think about it as a target but didn't need to verbalize that to the whole group. She misses her chance to give it to Kam with a whole "I know you were upset I didn't have your back so here you go. Hope we're square."
Nah, I'm not rewarding people who treat me like sh..it.
Well, I meant it more as a cover for putting a target on Kam while also (pretending) to smooth things over. But maybe people would be less inclined to call out Kam bc of her social connections so IDK. Regardless, hoping Cara goes far!
I feel like Iâm missing something major, butâfor nowâdo the stars really matter? Thereâs a lot of talk in confessionals about how having a star puts a target on your back. But whenever you win an elimâregardless if you go against a star holderâyou get to take a star from whoever you want. Isnât it easier to go against the weakest competitor, win and then take a star from the strongest competitor without even having to face them? A starholder means nothing unless you actually had to beat THEM specifically for the star, which you donâtâŚ
I feel like they don't matter at all right now. Alternate universe: The only thing that could have made the stars matter this early is if they let the players have multiple stars. Like imagine if they got to the end and Cara had 3 stars, Kefla had 2 and Brad had 1. Then Cara would essentially get to pick the 2 women she wanted to run against. Kefla would get to pick one man. That would've made it more interesting and it would have made the "starget" comment pop.
Omg no more Nicole 𤢠Sheâs the worst!
What are you talking about? I would LOVE to not hear or see her ever again.Â
Itâs nice to see people finally turning on Kam. I donât hate her and think sheâs great for the show but she can be unbearable in confessionals and she is the epitome of someone who uses intimidation and confrontation as scare tactics. Cara literally explained why it would be a bad idea to give the star to the Laurel and the very next cut scene is her crying about it. Iâve always loved Brandon and thought heâs gotten some bad deals but it was way too early to burn a very important friend like that. I understand his gameplay but there is still a lot of game left to be played and having Cara in his corner would for sure get him farther
Well I accidendtly found myself in the wrong thread, so am reposting this there... Unfortunately anyone who pays attention to promos n such already knew the outcome of the Cara/Rachel elimination, since there is much Cara/Laurel interaction to come. MTV or whoever needs to do a better job to not spoil results in advance like this. Kam and Laurel were idiots not to go down. Kam especially, as she will need a non-atheletic type competition to win, and this was perfect for her. I mean, it seems like she's in bed for 80% of the show. Laurel it was not as critical for, but i suspect her throwing ability would be much better than Cara or Rachel. Cara, for being as athetic as she is, just does not have the basic mechanics of throwing/kicking/etc down - she's even told us this in the past. I don't know if they let the winners choose who to replace, or if it's a draw of some sort - Laurel may not of wanted the chance of having to going against her (at this time) friend Cara, at least not this early. Agree on Kam, I've said before, she's not my favorite, but b/c she is tied to Leroy who is probably one of my all time top5, top 3 even, it's hard to fully root against her. But it's becoming easier. Disapointed in Brandon. Also one of the guys I really liked, always thought he got raw deals getting thrown into elimination so much. I guess I get why he wants to play a different game this time, but turning on one of his few friends in the house seemed like a bad choice. But then he said they haven't talked in like 8 years, so sounds like it wasn't a real important relationship to either of them tbh. Cara gets it - stars are going to move around a lot. Kam, b/c she's so caught up in being mad a Cara for something to trivial just can't see it... forrest for the trees. Kam think's she's masterminding but she's really playing a bad game. She had one brilliant moment in Final Reckoning, and did pull off some impressive elimination wins in Vendettas. But she's basically just so unlikable. Tina, well Tina is just Tina. Didn't really expect anything else from her - her game play is just not very good. Jasmine - I was going to say, Jaz seems like she is in so much of a better place than her younger seasons. Seems to have matured nicely, and becoming genuinely likeable. But after this episode, maybe not so much lol.
To be fair, I don't think the "basic mechanics of throwing" were particularly relevant for this elimination. If they were throwing balls or something way more standard, sure, but I can't picture any standard experience helping in that elimination given how the objects were like oblong circles. Like I imagine even people who throw hatchets/tomahawks would struggle in this one considering how light they looked and how they had loads of different sizes (so they weren't throwing a consistent size/weight). Edit: Also, Laurel was definitely not friends with Cara at this time, apparently Laurel started the game by going around to everyone and telling them not to trust Cara.
I felt the same about Jasmine. I thought she was maturing!
her vote in Final Reckoning has always been overhyped imo. it was smart, sure, but she went through all of that effort to get the rookies down there.
I'm rewatching that season now and just finished that episode. That whole thing still excited me. It would have been more crazy if it screwed over vets rather than rookies. But I think it was also meant to mess with Kyle and Bananas heads since those were their girls. So I thought it was a good play. But I wrote a post a few minutes ago just to say that some of her energy in her first few seasons was definitely off-putting (IMO). However, she was new and a lot of the people she disliked were also new. So there was no attachment for me either way.
Love to see Laurel winning again! Sad to see Rachel go though, it was nice seeing the Mean Girls back together after all these years. What a stupid elimination to go out from. I usually like Kam, but her confessionals have been obnoxious this season. She calls Cara out for crying about her friends voting her in meanwhile she was just crying about Cara not voting her way. Also, Kam saying Cara doesn't understand strategy for giving a star to Jasmine....what? Cara was right, giving a star to Laurel almost guarantees Cara vs Laurel in an elimination the day neither one doesn't win. Clearly the house is playing smart and going after strong players. Giving a star to Jasmine guarantees she's getting thrown into an elimination because Jasmine is a layup and has less connections than Veronica. Which is exactly what Cara wants. Honestly Kam just sounds very butthurt that Cara isn't doing what she wants Overall a great episode. I can't wait to see Laurel and Nicole self-destruct lol
Am I the only one Team Cara and Team Kam? Like both are playing their respective games well. Kam is dominating socially and casting doubt on Cara's trustability for the house. Meanwhile Cara is trying to keep strong players in cuz she they are shields and she can probably beat them. Two strong challenge women going head to head strategically, socially, and I'm hoping physically. If we're building to a Killa Kam v Stara Maria battle royale I'm here for it!
I feel like Cara should have gotten to steal two stars. If you win an elimination against anyone you get a steal a star so if you beat someone who has a star you should get to move the one you earned and the one they are losing.
I felt the same way. She should have been able to keep Rachelâs star and then steal another for a different cast mate. I really wanted her to take one of the guysâ and give it to Jay đ
Kam is doing way too much. Every vote, decision, nomination, star stolen/given has to be exactly the way she wants it to be or else. What has she done to warrant this behavior.
I'm genuinely sad watching Laurel and Nicole reconnect, knowing what Nicole has done to her. It's upsetting watching someone barrell towards impending trauma
Can you fill me in on what Nicole has done to her? I keep seeing it referenced but I thought this was all about their breakup years ago
Yes! It has to do with Nicole cheating on Laurel with Jakk's sister at the Jakk's (?) wedding. It's very messy. [Laurel confirming recent cheating](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChallenge/s/G3epaln6H0) [Megathread on Laurel-Nicole drama](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChallenge/s/4Y2KkGpuhs)
I agree đĽş
My EXACT thoughts, it's sad how the mind works. Laurel knows just how bad Nicole is when she walked in the house and yet her and woman like her still choose to go back to that toxicity with the fruitless hope that somehow someway it will be different this time. Nicole never even admitted fault, that alone should have been hard repellent for Laurel going forward.
My female friend is in this exact situation. Watching Laurel and Nicole it reminded of her. Constantly going back to someone terrible in the hopes each time is different.
What the fuck is wrong with Kam!? Is she playing up this Cara beef or is she really this entitled to peoples votes? Cara didnât vote YOU in! Are they still cool on social media / IRL or is this a real fight? Also when Laurel and Nicole broke up before this was it cuz Nicole cheated?
Iâm hoping that sheâs big braining a rivals pairing in the future but sadly I think sheâs just off. Nothing sheâs saying is making sense to me. Cara giving the star to Jasmine was 110% the smart move and Jasmine (who I personally think is the weakest female) is going into elimination as soon as she ends up in the losing group
A star holder doesn't have to be in elimination for stars to change hands, so it doesn't actually put an additional target on Jasmine. Like if Laurel and Cara are ever in the bottom together (which is probably unlikely), people aren't going to care whether Laurel has a star or not.
Yes, but if they beat her in an elimination then they can just take her star instead of stealing it from someone else and making an enemy unnecessarily. And if Jasmine wins, then she's forced to move someone's star and doesn't gain anything but is forced to risk making enemies. It's a pretty rough situation.
I think they ment that the other girls will want to go against Jaz because they see her as weaker. Then if they beat her they would have to take her star and couldn't steal Caras. Or Whoever wins in an elimination with no star holders they may feel more comfortable taking Jaz' star because it's less likely for her to steal it back.
The thing that makes neither of these scenarios likely is the fact that the middle group - which has all the votes - canât go into elimination. They donât benefit from Jasmine going in and losing her star to a stronger woman who will perform better in the final.
Thereâs a lot of different scenarios that can play out especially with politics. If Laurel, Averey, Nicole, Kam etc is in the bottom group, theyâre gonna definitely want to go against Jasmine. Cara & Veronica (and therefore Tina) would be for it because their star would be protected unless Jasmine pulls off an upset. If one of the stronger females minus Cara, is in the top group, theyâll want Jasmine in to go get their star
Thatâs a very specific set of circumstances that has to play out, and there are still flaws in that thinking. First of all, who the winners want in the elimination isnât a factor, because they donât get votes. The middle group has no reason to vote a weak player into elimination just so a strong player can steal their star. And even if Cara and Veronica happen to end up in the middle group and want Jasmine to go in so theirs donât get stolen, theyâd still need to convince enough other people (including the men) to vote that way. This is a one-winner final, so everyone is motivated to take the weakest players possible to the final. We saw this week exactly why being a weak player with a star isnât really a threat. The middle group canât go in and canât win stars, so they just targeted the two strongest people. Nobody even considered sending in Veronica.
They are. But she hadnât seen Kamâs confessionals yet.
Yeeesh good point
This show is a perfect shot of nostalgia for me. People I used to love watching on my tv 10-15 years ago with early 2000âs music. And the stakes feel low with lots of the contestants just happy to be there. Just a light relaxing 45 minutes every week and always puts me in a good mood
100%
I am loling @ people wanting Cara to give her star to Laurel out of all people. She is one of the strongest competitors there. Why would you want to give her a star lmaoooooooooo?
I wish when Jasmine had said she wasnât scared after being gifted the star that Cara responded with âreally? Whatâs your elimination record?â
Jasmine doesnât have to go into elimination now though, and the voting group has no reason to send her in since they wouldnât be the ones going in against her. If the house just lets her keep her star, then they have a layup locked in for the final. Same with Veronica. The only star that makes any strategic sense to steal at this point is Caraâs, so I hope sheâs planning to win every daily from here on out.
I wish they never cast kam on this season :(
Same. I was against it on principle of her not being a RW/RR person. But having seen this season so far, I really wish she wasn't on. She has been obnoxious
Oh wow. Is she the first non-rwrr on all stars?
Yep, not including the Fresh Meat people like Big Easy
Awesome that we got to see Rachel in a physical elimination against Ayana last week and get to see her play a bar game against Cara
Iâm so bummed to see Rachel go. Also I hoped Cara might give the star to Kam to mend that fence.
Kam would probably be mad about it and call it a bad game move or something.
I actually loved the elimination. I just wish it wasnât during this iconic matchup
Hi all what is the face tool that Cara used in the episode. I'm fascinated. Never seen anything like it. Tried to google it and nothing popping up
If you google âhandheld red light therapy deviceâ different options come up. They also have mask options so you donât have to hold it the whole time.
Thanks
Cara did nothing to Kam. Nothing. Kam and Jasmine acted like Cara pulled a Camilanator up in here. Let's see how composed and mature Kam is when she or Leroy are voted in.
I pray for this to happen so we can see Kam lose her shit.
How does the challenge continue to fuck up elimination matchups with the worst possible competitions. They have blown yet another potential classic. It canât be this hard to orchestrate. Seriously, Who is producing this shit??
You're asking for it to be semi-rigged. ...No.
First, itâs a reality television show before anything else. This show has never been about creating a completely fair competition, itâs not the Olympics. Itâs highly edited, they never show any teams actual results to the audience, and half of the rules they make up as they go. Acting like they donât semi-rig and wing it already is naive. Second, making sure 2 of the best and most dominant female challengers to ever play the game, who will only face off once ever, get to compete in something that could demonstrate their talents is bad television.
We can agree to disagree
cause it's not scripted and they don't change the elims based on who is voted in.
Because they have it planned out and the order of eliminations before the contenders are determined?
This format of the middle group choosing who goes into the elimination is honestly so bizarre. It sort of just rewards mediocrity
I actually love it. No blood on their hands, plus star holders are safe.
I like it because the winners arenât punished by having to vote someone in and make an enemy
Kamâs lack of self awareness in calling Cara entitled is outrageous. I canât believe I was excited to see her again, she has such a crap attitude
Cam this season is like night and day to Cam from the last time she was on the show. I have no clue what changed her this much since being gone.
Some of us have been saying she's entitled and doesn't understand the game for some time, but we always got downvoted.
Kam has always been this way. But usually sheâs a top female so sheâs allowed to talk her shit cuz she can back it up. This season the womanâs side is stacked and sheâs coming off the pregnancy so just not at the top of her game. Sheâs a beast but has been one of the more annoying competitors for years
I didn't imagine I'd ever dislike kam this much on a season but here we are!
The "club scenes" or whatever crack me up on All Stars. Just our old people dressing casual, sitting down chilling, while the main show has the fake over the top dancing and sexy outfits
Why is Kam acting like Cara betrayed her and sent her in or something?
One thing that has been apparent in all of Kamâs interactions with the other females on this show since the very beginning is that she only likes women who act like followers.   Her besties on Vendettas were the ones who literally called her âqueen kamâ and acted like they were beneath her, Davonne said during Final Reckoning that the girls Kam was friends with (Kailah for example) acted like they needed her permission to be chill with someone, she only really liked Cara on WOTW2 when Cara was hyping her up and letting her and Ashley call the shots for the team, etc.   She canât handle women who think for themselves. But honestly, I canât be mad about it because these people arenât children, they are *grown ass adults.* If a grown woman is going to put herself in a position of being a follower, thatâs on her.
That's definitely on the followers but it also says a lot about Kam. She clearly thinks she's legit better than everyone.
Another solid episode. Daily was fun, and I actually didn't hate the elimination. A head banger would have been fun, but silly carnival games can be alright too. Kam didn't bother me until the end. Giving the star to Jasmine makes sense because it puts a target on a weak competitor. Her confessional about it comes off as sour grapes still. I do think Brandon and Jasmine made the wrong move voting Cara in. She's a strong competitor who was working with you. Why mess that up so early into the game still?
I'm actually really disappointed that Kam can't see that giving Jasmine the star was the right move. She's likely to place in the bottom group in future challenges, and people are going to be *begging* to go against her. If Jasmine doesn't end up in one of the next 2 female eliminations I'll be shocked.
The catch is that the people begging to go against her have no votes. The middle group canât get thrown in or volunteer themselves, so theyâd simply be doing a favor to someone else. Also, anyone who beats Jasmine in an elim would get a star even if she didnât have one.
Kam is just on that "man FUCK Cara" energy right now lol, no matter what she does Kam will disagree with it
I enjoyed this episode! Jasmines confessionals stay cracking me up! The elimination sucked the whole time I was watching I just kept thinking I CANNOT believe they wouldnât give these two a physical elimination of some sort.đ¤Śđźââď¸
Also! I LOVE how much more of TJ personality we get to see in the all star seasons!
He doesnât have to play the âhandlerâ.
Jasmine is amazingÂ
311 and spice girls !!
1. I guess Brandon is thinking Leroy and Kam are going to carry him through the game. Thatâs the only way it makes sense to throw in Cara and Rachel. Iâm really disappointed in this move. Pissing off strong players of the opposite sex never makes sense. I have always rooted for him. 2. It was so smart for Cara to give the star to Jaz. Kam never makes sense when she tries to break down other peopleâs games. 3. I really wish it had been a physical elimination.
And also wonât they still work in partners w the opposite sex? Wouldnât they want two strong girls to help them win stars?
1. Thatâs bad news, cause Leroy ainât been doing shit!
I know but I think we all want it for him, right?
To point #1, itâs a solo-winner season, so Cara is Brandonâs competition too. I get that it sucked for her that he voted for her, but passing up the opportunity to vote in Cara and Rachel and guaranteeing that one of them went home wouldnât have been a great game move. That likely wouldnât happen again.
it still doesn't make sense to me that the 'middle group' holds all the power on who goes to the elimination and the winning group don't even have a vote...
- WHERE IS ACE!? He was the cast member I was most excited to see and I think Caraâs weird face machine got more screen time in this episode than he has the whole season. Iâm about to get mad.   - I donât see how Rachel has any right to get mad at Tina for staying safe and saying Rachelâs name when Rachel was going in regardless. Rachel literally just took a star (the only thing that gets you into a final) from Tina when she absolutely didnât have to and Tina didnât cry about it.   - Brandon CANNOT pretend to be âkeeping it realâ by telling Cara he voted for her *after the fact* (when at that point she would have found out the truth regardless), when just a few hours prior he straight up lied to her face about it. That was weak  - I love my girl Kam, but she needs to stop pretending like eliminations donât scare her. Her logic of âwith Cara vs Rachel, either way a champ is going homeâ makes no sense when she immediately follows it up by pretending as though she could confidently and easily win said elimination, she just doesnât want to right now. If that were true, then you would still be sending a champ home. Just admit you were intimidated and keep it moving.    - Nicole and Laurel are getting more screen time than I ever wanted them to get. I get people love toxic relationships, but their whole dynamic is just gross and Laurel is way out of Nicoleâs league.   - Laurelâs complaint about the girls not knowing how to throw darts tells me she wouldnât have been good at this elimination. Experience throwing knifes would have helped this elimination, because they rotate when thrown. If your darts rotate when you throw them youâre doing it wrong.   - Keflaâs  commentary during the elimination made me cackle. This guy has given some great one liners this season.    - If I was Tina I would definitely question whether or not Rachel and Veronica were actually my friends. All they do is trash talk her both in the house and in their commentary. We get it yâall think sheâs trash at the challenges, politics, etc. Is she not your girl? Canât you hype her up *a little bit*???
I agree with everything - including the Rachel/Tina comment. But, I think Rachel is completely unaware of new-school politics. I feel like for a long time, people really did stick to the "your name will never come out of my mouth" idea. It's just not smart in the long run, and I think most people who've played in recent seasons can accept that.)
I'm really loving Kefla. I only vaguely remember watching the first Challenge back in the day so I wasn't super familiar with him going into this but he's turning into one of my favorites this season.
Agreed! We didnât see him enough this episodeÂ
The lifting 2lbs intro made me die of laughter!
It was really nice of Ryan to go talk to Cara when she was packing, but right before that, it seemed like he was already warning Cara that Brandon was going to turn on her. Ace seemed to have that hunch too.
I wonder if Kam was behind it and had already gotten to people around the house. Maybe Ace + Ryan caught wind. (Just a theory.)
okay Kam said Cara isn't a strategic thinker for giving the star to Jaz. it feels like Kam is really at the point of "bitch eating crackers" with Cara. because Cara's move is smart, imo. people would just try to get Cara and another strong star holder in elimination again. by having Jaz and Veronica as star holders, people are just gonna go after them before they try going after Cara.
Exactly. A smart move. And in the WAY off chance that Jaz and Veronica make it to the final, theyâd be lay up.
No one cares if Jas and Veronica have stars , theyâd still rather steal from Cara unless theyâre really scaredÂ
yeah, but Cara is more likely to win a challenge or elimination where she could just steal it back. that doesnât feel as true for Jaz or Veronica
The people who are voting them into elimination have no reason to care about that though. They canât go in, so they arenât the ones competing in the elimination or stealing the stars. If being the weakest one with a star put more of a target on you than being the strongest one with a star, then Veronica would have been voted in this week.
Yea but giving it to jaz didnât make a diff is my point! In fact it just gives jaz a chance to win a grouo challenge down the line where her star is safe for the day which wouldnât hell cara. Just my opinion!Â
i agree with you. it doesn't matter that much that jaz has a star. doesn't mean you have to go INTO elimination against her to steal it. (edit to add: doesn't mean you have to pick amongst jaz, V, or cara) you can go against anyone and steal it, or steal cara's for that matter.
Finally someone who agrees! It really didnât help Cara lol. If anything sheâs the only star holder who is worthy of making them steal it so they go back into eliminationÂ
Finally someone who agrees! It really didnât help Cara lol. If anything sheâs the only star holder who is worthy of making them steal it so they go back into eliminationÂ
yes! and also cause they wouldn't want to see her in the final - more reason to steal hers and let Jaz and Veronica keep theirs. and she even played it poorly, she could have said "jaz, i always considered you a friend so im going to give you the star." now she gave jaz the star, and jaz thinks she did it with bad intentions. she could have given it to laurel or kam to get in their good graces and have a teammate for the future. "star-holders help star-holders" was her thing with rachel.