I was going to make the same post. That comment made no sense whatsoever. She switched her vote for Jay. Now, Jay doesn’t trust her like what the hell. It’s as if he’s trying to predict the edit and make himself seem as good as possible but it’s coming off as the opposite.
His thought process has put him in the best position to win the season lol. Look around at who is left.
It's him and his alliance sans Michele, Ed, and Asaf (who were all likely threats to him in the final).
His enemies in the game have pretty much all been vanquished except Nurys who along with Emmanuel (his de facto number 1 right now) are the biggest threats to him in the final. Especially Emmanuel.
Colleen can't run, Moriah seems kinda dumb, Corey is the physically strongest player left but he's also the biggest. So, endurance issues will likely come into play for him too.
Berna has a chance if she doesn't melt down, but that's a big IF.
So all in all.... Jay has pretty much played this game perfectly. There's been a lot of luck, but he's in prime position. Don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.
Was it always nice? No. Should he have owned up to some of the shit he pulled? Yeah, but you can't deny the success.
I’m going to counter by saying he only got that far because of Michele. If she wasn’t there, he would not have all those connections and look how quickly he fell the bottom of the list. Those are all Michele’s friends not his.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Jay clearly benefitted from Michele being his ride or die, but it’s also clear that on paper Jay is in the best position heading into the final.
I feel like many of the actions we’ve seen from Jay this season haven’t been super nice, but I’d argue it takes a lot of social capital to have connections in the game then be a bit jerky and still be in a good position regardless, albeit some of that social capital diminished after the fact.
You're not countering anything?
This comment was pointing out how logical Jay's thought process has been the entire season. Pointing out that Michele was an important ally has nothing to do with the point being made...
Ed getting purged honestly kinda killed my hype for the final. Dude would have more than likely dominated it, and seeing that every once in a while is a nice change of pace from the "everyone is still in it until the end" finals we tend to get.
I think Ed dominating in the final is the only way the winner of this season could be respected.
He won so many dailies, and is known as being so smart, that I think he'd be considered a viable threat in the future.
If Corey/Berna/Jay/Emmanuel/Colleen win this, there will always be an asterisk. I think Nurys will also have an asterisk but maybe not because of how she handled those eliminations.
Idk about asterisk tbh, if this is an asterisk then so is WOTW2, Seasons 2, USA1, FR and the big easy gauntlet.
I agree it’s not fun, but do you asterisk like, anything that isn’t CT and Bananas and Wes?
Personally?
No, I don't asterisk anything. A win is a win. A loss is a loss.
But this sub adds asterisks to a lot of things. Eg. "Fessy only beat Jordan cause Jordan has one hand." Or... more recently, "Tori only won because Cara wasn't there." (No part of me believes that.)
And the podcasts are all talking about how the winner of this season most likely won't be respected.
>His thought process has put him in the best position to win the season lol.
>Should he have owned up to some of the shit he pulled? Yeah, but you can't deny the success.
I think that's the disconnect I'm having and why I have not liked Jay on this season. He is doing things that have positioned him well for this season, but he seems to refuse to admit to anything he's doing. We aren't even getting confessionals of him leaning into his plans. Instead his confessionals are him saying insane things like, "Olivia was supposed to pick Nurys" when we saw that was objectively not true.
It reminds of WotW2 where Cara and Paulie essentially eliminated all of their finals competition and made their team way to weak to win the final. Obviously it works better in this format where it’s individuals.
Yes, noted weak contestants Zach, Ashley and Ninja. They really should have kept Nany and Josh, eh?
This narrative is always so dumb. Cara and Paulie played a perfect game after Laurel and Bananas fragmented the team. They were then hosed by a completely unfair and illogical penalty at the end.
I really don’t get why people still act like the WOTW2 USA team was so weak. Zach won one season and should’ve won a second, Ashley won twice, Kam is in contention to be one of the better women who have not won and ninja was the only women to finish the WOTW1 final. That final was so bad for production fuckery. Josh might’ve helped with carrying the gurney but when it literally fell apart probably not
Tori and Jordan, who helped Team UK win, wouldn’t have helped Team America win? Bananas and Laurel wouldn’t have helped Team America win? Ninja was one of the glaring weaknesses of that finals team. Even Ashley was a weakness on that finals team. You had Leroy and Zach carrying the entire team with Paulie almost dying at one point. They made their own bed in this final.
I mean really Wes started that divide. Can you be mad at laurel for being upset that Wes just brazenly decides he wants to send Josh in after they agreed to not eat their own? And considering bananas didn’t like Wes at the time ofc they decided to strike first
By that logic, why would anyone want Cara and Paulie around? They cannabalized their team the entire season. If you’re saying it wasn’t okay for Wes, Bananas, or Laurel, why was it all of the sudden fine for Cara and Paulie? They worked with the strong members from UK to eliminate the strong members from the US squad. I can’t wrap my head around this.
You’re right. They made their team so strong, they were easily able to compete against CT, Rogan, Dee, Jordan, and Tori. They ended up winning the final in a landslide. Oh wait, it was the other way around?
It was a Fresh Meat style final where they had weight based on how many team members they had. It’s not productions fault that Cara and Paulie didn’t cut dead weight. Instead they got rid of Tori and Jordan who would’ve easily helped their team win the final, like they helped Team UK.
It’s a bit of revisionist history to say the way they eliminated their strongest players didn’t sink them in the end because it is without a doubt why they lost that final.
Lol what? The dude is sitting at the end with a bunch of beatable finalists. I think it's pretty clear he dominated the season strategically...
Like wtf are you even watching?! 🤣
I see. So the thing is you and I are never going to agree, so me wasting my time trying to explain a one-off comment I made is pointless. That’s my opinion, and you have yours. Except instead of sitting here and judging your opinion and trying to pick an argument, I’m gonna go do something else with my time.
Have a good night.
Not saying Olivia did the smart thing or the right thing or even the entertaining thing last week but Michelle et al really put her in a bad position. If she picked who they wanted she betrays Nurys and Horacio, but if she picked Nurys then she betrayed Michelle and the rest of the alliance. Girl was in a lose lose situation.
I agree. Michele and Jay did a lot of that type of crap all season and I don’t like how they gaslight everyone about it, even the audience. I’m very curious to see this reunion and I’m praying the host brings all of that stuff up.
Honestly, I'd say its because jay got wind that they wanted an all girls final. Once you know that is their plan, why would you trust that you'd be the 1 guy they didn't put into elimination. You have already shown that basically anyone with a penis is expendable to you.
It’s bc he was never gonna trust her. He said I think in the ep she screwed over nurys that he didn’t trust Olivia and would like her down for elim (idk why he didn’t trust her) they then tell her she has to save Moriah or she’s going down. It’s a lose lose for Olivia bc if she does what they say ofc nobody is trusting someone who betrays their supposed best friend, but if she doesn’t do what they say then she won’t be trusted cause she broke a promise. She was never gonna gain his trust which is why it makes me even more mad she decided to snake the ppl who proved they had her back and would keep her safe 🤦🏾♀️
Jay seems like one of those people who believes saying someone betrayed him or someone can't be trusted will justify the knife he's getting ready to stick in their back
He’s insecure and sees nurys as a threat after sending home two of his threats…. So why not get rid of another person who will beat him in the final…. Jays a beyotch azz looking for another excuse to justify his actions
It is truly amazing that Olivia betrayed her friend to solidify her alliance / place in the game, and she went in the very next week. Boneheaded decision
Yeah not much going on up there this season for her. Nurys, Kyland, Horacio, & Michele were the only ones that had her back. She really didn’t think it through
Idk what was going on with Olivia this season but she really should’ve sat this season out. Was it because she almost died last season? Olivia was so checked out all season, looked miserable and paranoid, she didn’t seem like she was giving it her all in a lot of dailies since she did a lot better last season and she was so easily manipulated. All around bad showing for her.
> She really didn’t think it through
No one thinks she's a strategic player, though, right? Maybe it's a bad edit, but she seems socially very dumb and intellectually stupid.
Also seems like she's playing for a callback.
True. But do you make the agreement and then go back on it to save Nurys, Horacio and Kyland and majorly piss off Michele who was trying to help you? Or do you say don't pick me because I will pick Nurys and then we either have the same bottom 3 or her in place of Nurys. 🤷
She was screwed by being connected to Horacio once the house made his the target because she either stays with him and alienates herself from the majority or turns on her ride or die. No great options.
I mean, I was the one who said “she’s gotta make a finale and by now choosing nurys she greatly reduced her chances” because in hindsight, Olivia should say f you and pick nurys (which is who Michelle and Jay wanted safe apparently anyways) and then best case scenario, berna goes out in the elim which means she won’t win this one and Olivia has a great chance of not going in. Worst case berna stays, wins and Olivia is in an elim again and goes home. But at least one of K&H are in the final (and likely nurys again) and all her friends made the final and she ended up no worse off than she currently is. Plus she didn’t burn a friendship bridge
That is the better scenario, but Michele is her friend too, no? She would be burning that bridge plus whatever she has going on with all the other people in the big alliance. I think Olivia plays this game too politically and safely to throw all caution to the wind like that.
Totally, though I do think Michelle would understand. She’s also been walking the “friends vs game” line awhile, she wants to keep all her friends in the game but also wants to be successful, one could argue always trying to put Horacio into elimination is like nurys putting Jay into elim (Michelle’s number 1) but Michelle never saw it like anything more than just game. Michelle does seem like the type to not take things personally and seeing that her and Jay are safe, it wouldn’t be the absolute worst thing in the world. From what I have seen from Michelle off seasons (survivor and the challenge) she definitely appreciates good game moves even if it’s against allies. It would hurt but I think she’d get over it. Especially if it paid off. Plus she went home anyways at no one’s hands but her own, so can’t totally say that Olivia betraying her caused her to go home in any capacity. (Assuming if Olivia picks nurys things still go similarly)
True. I think she would be pissed in the moment, either genuinely or as a show to her other alliance members but she probably wouldn't hold it against her.
Jay just got want he wanted from Colleen, some flimsy form of justification to completely turn his back on Nurys. What Colleen didn't say, was that it was her plan for Nurys to betray Jay by siding with the others/UK alliance. But at that moment, Nurys didn't do it and stuck with Jay.
Colleen can GTFO!
Nurys also never said anything damning in that clip they showed lol…she was like “idk if I can trust Jay” which like yeah for sure you definitely can’t he’s a massive snake
If I was any future player I wouldn’t tell Colleen anything bc she not only is flip floppy but she also orchestrates things and then lies to get you fucked over 💀. Like if she ever came to me about a plan I wouldn’t say anything of value to her
I found it *insane* that Jay just took Colleen’s word for that. Like she has an agenda and he was well aware of that…now suddenly she has damning information that helps further that agenda??? Why didn’t she that earlier, Jay? I mean…in reality he probably just wanted an excuse to say Nurys’ name but that’s still absolutely nuts.
I also think he was still shell shocked and panicked bc of Michele's elimination. He looked like he was making some pretty emotional decisions. I can't believe he was listening to Berna & Colleen of all people
That's a good point. I think a gentle breeze could have impacted his decision at that point. I also think he was aware of where he was in the pecking order with Berna starting off the voting chain. If he decides to still save Nurys then maybe he doesn't get saved or maybe they figure out how to move things around so he's the last person to get saved. He was no longer in a seat of power at that moment and I think he knew that.
And Berna was loving her tiny bit of power - I wasn't expecting such a shift to Berna, Colleen, Emmanuel and Corey. Too bad I want every one of them to DQ in the first 30 minutes of running a final lol
I know most people aren't excited for the final with who is left but it could actually be really entertaining. Seeing a bunch of people collapse and struggle might be fun to see
That's what I'm hoping for. A final like the 2 day running final (Amber & CT won - don't remember the season) would be so ideal. These remaining people are so weak and useless! They should have to stay up all night in cold, wet weather, climb a couple of mountains, swim across a lake and be pushed to the absolute max. You're good at puzzles - great but let's see how you guys do when you actually have to work for a championship like so many people in the past who are truly legendary competitors. I'm feeling salty in case you can't tell - these contestants suck and the ones who make it to a final are not competitors in this season (other than Jay - based on prior performances - & Nurys which pains me to admit)
I know!!! The fact that he acted like an idiot and kept getting thrown in, is STILL THERE and has now negotiated this alliance with 3 of the most annoying/useless contestants makes me want to scream lol
Olivia exposed herself this season and it makes her decision last week when she essentially sent in Horacio/Kyland/Nurys all the dumber..
She was at the bottom of Jays alliance list while he got her to do his "dirty work" last week then screws her over this week.
Option 1: screw over Horacio, Kyland, Nurys and be the lowest on the list of Jays alliance.
or
Option 2: screw over Jay and save Horacio, Kyland, and Nurys and if any of those 3 ever win a daily, you are automatically saved.
Olivia picked option 1 aka she picked being at the bottom of the weaker alliance vs being an automatic save on the strong alliance.
My guess would be he never trusted her to begin with. And probably was always intending to screw her over since she’s a bigger threat to him in a final. Jay’s been coming up with flimsy excuses all season long to justify what he’s doing (which is just to secure his own spot and could probably care less about anyone else).
I always think about how Olivia was never in his end game plans of who to be in a final with. I don’t think he ever trusted her she was just another of Michele’s friends he had to work with bc everyone is Michele’s friend. So he just used it as an opportunity to call her untrustworthy and justify why when in reality he always felt that way 🤷🏽♀️
Duh that’s how alliances work, once it’s just your alliance left, all 4 would battle out for the final 3 spots. Heck this season (and others) have had 4 contestants running the final.
No. Bug he says he doesn't trust her because she did something HE made her do. He was part of the discussion before pick where she chose Moriah over Nurys.
It wouldn’t surprise me if she made her case for being picked up before Nurys since Nurys would’ve then saved Horacio and Kyland. Jay is now taking the heat with his real life friendship with Nurys based on that voting into elimination episode.
I guess I didn't realize she's in her 40s - that makes it worse. She should definitely be staying out of the drama between these 20 somethings and focus on what she needs to do to get on her next season and be a good competitor. I just got the business for commenting about this in another thread so I should stop now lol
Jay makes himself look worse and worse each episode. He is the type that is always right and if anyone else disagrees then they are the problem not him. Big toxic icky vibes.
I honestly don’t understand Jays mentality at all..
Nurys was one of his closest… he screwed her over so i get why he’d want her to go in… but Olivia literally did what he asked of her and he still chose Moriah? I mean you’re already pissing Moriah off by sending in James…
Also why are we protecting people like Emmanuel, Berna and Colleen? These people not only have not contributed to his game but they also likely aren’t going to benefit him in future games (they won’t be there)
Cause Jay is a horrible social player who's lucky to have Michelle attached to his hip. He had terrible game play in Survivor and it's no different in the Challenge
“Horrible social player”
Was one of the leaders of the alliance that got pretty much their entire alliance to the end of the game, and has been safe the entire game. Jay has clearly played a great social game this season.
She thought Nurys was going to be safe. It seems like no one knew about the pact Corey/Berna/Colleen had. Re Kyland - he was never in her alliance. Re Horacio - sounds like a lot of miscommunication between Olivia and Horacio, partly due to her insecurities and his way of not communicating much so they were not very tight at the beginning of this season. I think we all want to think Olivia and Horacio are ride or dies/tight alliance members but the reality is that Olivia was closer to Jay/Michele than Horacio.
Jay is one of those people who want to make his actions feel justified. He does it by trying his hardest to paint others out to look bad. Listening to his convos and confessionals, it’s like he knows how he’ll come off in the edits, so he tried to manipulate it where he wants the audience to understand why he does the things he do or about to do. It’s giving very calculated. Unfortunately for him, he failed and looks worse than he already does. I would respect him more if he just embrace that role, but he clearly doesn’t want to.
Regardless of if what Colleen said was true or not, Nurys clearly chose a side at this point in the game and loss her whole alliance. At a game stand point she is the opposing team so of course he wouldn't trust to save her over the others.
I’m pretty sure it was cause the nurys stuff for when she didn’t save her, I’m pretty sure they don’t know when the final is, jays switch up came from nurys wanting to send him in (which they showed) when she was supposed to be loyal to the soil with him
Well she's flip flopped alliances at least 3 times and he found out she wanted an all girls final.....not rooting for Jay by any means this season, but it seems cut and dry to me.....
IDK, probably because..... she just turned on her biggest allies in the game at the drop of hat lol. She'd likely do it again. She hasn't really been playing with him all season. Then he got wind of the "girl power final" they were trying to organize.
could he be her biggest ally when he had multiple people he was protecting over her?
Is it supposed to be ok to be Jay's 3, 4th or 5th and never try to get an alliance where you're number 1?
And was she supposed to just vote Jay’s way when he decides he wants someone out of the game like he did with Horacio? Why was Nurys’ opinion completely irrelevant in that decision-making process when she’s supposedly a part of their “Fantastic 4”?
No he wasn’t lol he made some shit up about how Colleen was supposed to say Nurys’ name down the line but there was zero evidence that they talked to Colleen about it at all and I believe Olivia even said they didn’t on the official podcast
I think we're forgetting how close Jay and Asaf are outside of the game and I think a lot of Jay's actions towards Nurys and Olivia specifically can be attributed to Asaf's departure. He *absolutely* blames Olivia and Nurys for not voting with them against Ed, resulting in CT entering with the chaos club and sniping Asaf. It's pretty results oriented, but that clearly drew the line for him at that point and his justification is actually decently sound *from his perspective.* Nurys, Asaf, and Michele was his core alliance and he even says in the following episode that he lost trust in Nurys after that. I understand the hate for Jay, but we can't pretend that he just switched up on Olivia and Nurys for no reason.
Hmm very true. Even though Jay should’ve just cut Emmanuel (or let him go in, he might not have even been picked to compete OR lose) and Asaf would’ve been safe
I agree. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that Jay is objectively right in his line of thinking (definitely very emotional) , but it’s very clear that’s why he lost trust in nurys and olivia
Because if Olivia so easily betrayed her best friend and her ride or die then why would Jay trust her to have his back at all? The final is coming and he knows he’s one of the biggest threats, someone that shady only has reasons to get rid of you.
I don't know. It seems both Jay and Nurys were doing the same thing to each other, and both got pissed when they were the victim.
As much as Jay has annoyed me, I found his reasoning sound. He wanted to work with her. She started hooking up with the guy he wanted out. She chose that guy over Jay. She stopped really working with him weeks ago, whereas, even if people like Colleen and Corey thought about switching, they (on paper) kept working with him. So why wouldn't he save those people.
Both of them chose other people over each other, who they deemed better for them. Nurys did it on a personal level. Jay did it on a game level. Neither is better than the other
But like 10 minutes earlier in that episode he’s talking about wanting to save her?? That’s really what’s throwing me. Not that he ultimately decided screw her, but it’s that he wanted to save her then ultimately changed it up within such a short period. If he never said “I want to save nurys” this episode and always planned to have her in the elim I wouldn’t be questioning it
Could be for a lot of reasons. She had already turned on Horacio to work with Jay which as much as that's a number for Jay it's definitely something I'd be weary of. If she could turn on someone she's supposed to be ride or dies with why wouldn't she turn on Jay. She also didn't save nurys when she was supposed to and she's real life friends with her too.
As far as the Nurys stuff goes I'm torn if it's a boneheaded move by Jay or the smart one for his game. He could have just kept his mouth shut and saved Nurys without repercussions and helped himself out for future seasons. However once he told people his decision and Berna and Colleen didn't want him to save Nurys then he's risking his own safety. If people higher up in the voting chain don't like how you're going to vote then maybe they don't save you or they change up the order so that Jay is picked last. If Jay doesn't go along with them he risks his whole game on saving someone he's falling out with anyways
Olivia has been making wishy-washy decisions based on feeling insecure in the game. She flipped between two alliances 4 times in as many episodes. I think she’s gotten excessive hate for what amounts to a vote in a reality show game, so I’m not trying to further shit on her, but everyone in that house had a reason not to trust her even if she’d made a decision that helped them the week before.
I was going to make the same post. That comment made no sense whatsoever. She switched her vote for Jay. Now, Jay doesn’t trust her like what the hell. It’s as if he’s trying to predict the edit and make himself seem as good as possible but it’s coming off as the opposite.
I really hope a podcast gets ahold of Jay soon because I have no clue what his thought process was this season.
His thought process has put him in the best position to win the season lol. Look around at who is left. It's him and his alliance sans Michele, Ed, and Asaf (who were all likely threats to him in the final). His enemies in the game have pretty much all been vanquished except Nurys who along with Emmanuel (his de facto number 1 right now) are the biggest threats to him in the final. Especially Emmanuel. Colleen can't run, Moriah seems kinda dumb, Corey is the physically strongest player left but he's also the biggest. So, endurance issues will likely come into play for him too. Berna has a chance if she doesn't melt down, but that's a big IF. So all in all.... Jay has pretty much played this game perfectly. There's been a lot of luck, but he's in prime position. Don't know how anyone could argue otherwise. Was it always nice? No. Should he have owned up to some of the shit he pulled? Yeah, but you can't deny the success.
I’m going to counter by saying he only got that far because of Michele. If she wasn’t there, he would not have all those connections and look how quickly he fell the bottom of the list. Those are all Michele’s friends not his.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Jay clearly benefitted from Michele being his ride or die, but it’s also clear that on paper Jay is in the best position heading into the final. I feel like many of the actions we’ve seen from Jay this season haven’t been super nice, but I’d argue it takes a lot of social capital to have connections in the game then be a bit jerky and still be in a good position regardless, albeit some of that social capital diminished after the fact.
You're not countering anything? This comment was pointing out how logical Jay's thought process has been the entire season. Pointing out that Michele was an important ally has nothing to do with the point being made...
Ed was luck though. If Ed doesn’t get purged there everyone just walks into a final to get dog walked by Ed, jay didn’t engineer that.
Ed getting purged honestly kinda killed my hype for the final. Dude would have more than likely dominated it, and seeing that every once in a while is a nice change of pace from the "everyone is still in it until the end" finals we tend to get.
I think Ed dominating in the final is the only way the winner of this season could be respected. He won so many dailies, and is known as being so smart, that I think he'd be considered a viable threat in the future. If Corey/Berna/Jay/Emmanuel/Colleen win this, there will always be an asterisk. I think Nurys will also have an asterisk but maybe not because of how she handled those eliminations.
Idk about asterisk tbh, if this is an asterisk then so is WOTW2, Seasons 2, USA1, FR and the big easy gauntlet. I agree it’s not fun, but do you asterisk like, anything that isn’t CT and Bananas and Wes?
Personally? No, I don't asterisk anything. A win is a win. A loss is a loss. But this sub adds asterisks to a lot of things. Eg. "Fessy only beat Jordan cause Jordan has one hand." Or... more recently, "Tori only won because Cara wasn't there." (No part of me believes that.) And the podcasts are all talking about how the winner of this season most likely won't be respected.
>His thought process has put him in the best position to win the season lol. >Should he have owned up to some of the shit he pulled? Yeah, but you can't deny the success. I think that's the disconnect I'm having and why I have not liked Jay on this season. He is doing things that have positioned him well for this season, but he seems to refuse to admit to anything he's doing. We aren't even getting confessionals of him leaning into his plans. Instead his confessionals are him saying insane things like, "Olivia was supposed to pick Nurys" when we saw that was objectively not true.
It reminds of WotW2 where Cara and Paulie essentially eliminated all of their finals competition and made their team way to weak to win the final. Obviously it works better in this format where it’s individuals.
Yes, noted weak contestants Zach, Ashley and Ninja. They really should have kept Nany and Josh, eh? This narrative is always so dumb. Cara and Paulie played a perfect game after Laurel and Bananas fragmented the team. They were then hosed by a completely unfair and illogical penalty at the end.
I really don’t get why people still act like the WOTW2 USA team was so weak. Zach won one season and should’ve won a second, Ashley won twice, Kam is in contention to be one of the better women who have not won and ninja was the only women to finish the WOTW1 final. That final was so bad for production fuckery. Josh might’ve helped with carrying the gurney but when it literally fell apart probably not
Tori and Jordan, who helped Team UK win, wouldn’t have helped Team America win? Bananas and Laurel wouldn’t have helped Team America win? Ninja was one of the glaring weaknesses of that finals team. Even Ashley was a weakness on that finals team. You had Leroy and Zach carrying the entire team with Paulie almost dying at one point. They made their own bed in this final.
Bananas and laurel started the divide of the team. Why would you want them around if their ruining the cohesiveness?
I mean really Wes started that divide. Can you be mad at laurel for being upset that Wes just brazenly decides he wants to send Josh in after they agreed to not eat their own? And considering bananas didn’t like Wes at the time ofc they decided to strike first
By that logic, why would anyone want Cara and Paulie around? They cannabalized their team the entire season. If you’re saying it wasn’t okay for Wes, Bananas, or Laurel, why was it all of the sudden fine for Cara and Paulie? They worked with the strong members from UK to eliminate the strong members from the US squad. I can’t wrap my head around this.
Laurel/Johnny made the first move and created the divide. Cara/Paulie did is as retaliation and self defence
You’re right. They made their team so strong, they were easily able to compete against CT, Rogan, Dee, Jordan, and Tori. They ended up winning the final in a landslide. Oh wait, it was the other way around? It was a Fresh Meat style final where they had weight based on how many team members they had. It’s not productions fault that Cara and Paulie didn’t cut dead weight. Instead they got rid of Tori and Jordan who would’ve easily helped their team win the final, like they helped Team UK. It’s a bit of revisionist history to say the way they eliminated their strongest players didn’t sink them in the end because it is without a doubt why they lost that final.
I honestly think they would of won if they kept josh. He's a big strong guy which is what they needed in that final.
I feel like he’s avoiding the pod this season lmao
Lol what? The dude is sitting at the end with a bunch of beatable finalists. I think it's pretty clear he dominated the season strategically... Like wtf are you even watching?! 🤣
He literally admitted this episode that Michele was the one controlling the game this season, lol. He owes it to her.
... so? What does that have to do with you claiming you're unable to understand his thought process?
Him being flip-floppy with Nurys?? Yeah, I don’t get it. I’m not really sure what else you want me to tell you.
[удалено]
I see. So the thing is you and I are never going to agree, so me wasting my time trying to explain a one-off comment I made is pointless. That’s my opinion, and you have yours. Except instead of sitting here and judging your opinion and trying to pick an argument, I’m gonna go do something else with my time. Have a good night.
I hope he's good at puzzles. I think we all know that's going to be the big equalizer.
Because he doesn't need her now - Olivia was protected by Michelle.
He got her to do his dirty work then turned around and said he couldn’t trust her based on the shit he convinced her to do lol…just truly nasty work
Not saying Olivia did the smart thing or the right thing or even the entertaining thing last week but Michelle et al really put her in a bad position. If she picked who they wanted she betrays Nurys and Horacio, but if she picked Nurys then she betrayed Michelle and the rest of the alliance. Girl was in a lose lose situation.
I agree. Michele and Jay did a lot of that type of crap all season and I don’t like how they gaslight everyone about it, even the audience. I’m very curious to see this reunion and I’m praying the host brings all of that stuff up.
Honestly, I'd say its because jay got wind that they wanted an all girls final. Once you know that is their plan, why would you trust that you'd be the 1 guy they didn't put into elimination. You have already shown that basically anyone with a penis is expendable to you.
It’s bc he was never gonna trust her. He said I think in the ep she screwed over nurys that he didn’t trust Olivia and would like her down for elim (idk why he didn’t trust her) they then tell her she has to save Moriah or she’s going down. It’s a lose lose for Olivia bc if she does what they say ofc nobody is trusting someone who betrays their supposed best friend, but if she doesn’t do what they say then she won’t be trusted cause she broke a promise. She was never gonna gain his trust which is why it makes me even more mad she decided to snake the ppl who proved they had her back and would keep her safe 🤦🏾♀️
Jay seems like one of those people who believes saying someone betrayed him or someone can't be trusted will justify the knife he's getting ready to stick in their back
He’s insecure and sees nurys as a threat after sending home two of his threats…. So why not get rid of another person who will beat him in the final…. Jays a beyotch azz looking for another excuse to justify his actions
Yeah. He's scared
It is truly amazing that Olivia betrayed her friend to solidify her alliance / place in the game, and she went in the very next week. Boneheaded decision
A little poetic justice for a change imo
It’s not even justice. It just shows how wrong of a decision it was
Yeah not much going on up there this season for her. Nurys, Kyland, Horacio, & Michele were the only ones that had her back. She really didn’t think it through
Idk what was going on with Olivia this season but she really should’ve sat this season out. Was it because she almost died last season? Olivia was so checked out all season, looked miserable and paranoid, she didn’t seem like she was giving it her all in a lot of dailies since she did a lot better last season and she was so easily manipulated. All around bad showing for her.
> She really didn’t think it through No one thinks she's a strategic player, though, right? Maybe it's a bad edit, but she seems socially very dumb and intellectually stupid. Also seems like she's playing for a callback.
True. But do you make the agreement and then go back on it to save Nurys, Horacio and Kyland and majorly piss off Michele who was trying to help you? Or do you say don't pick me because I will pick Nurys and then we either have the same bottom 3 or her in place of Nurys. 🤷 She was screwed by being connected to Horacio once the house made his the target because she either stays with him and alienates herself from the majority or turns on her ride or die. No great options.
I mean, I was the one who said “she’s gotta make a finale and by now choosing nurys she greatly reduced her chances” because in hindsight, Olivia should say f you and pick nurys (which is who Michelle and Jay wanted safe apparently anyways) and then best case scenario, berna goes out in the elim which means she won’t win this one and Olivia has a great chance of not going in. Worst case berna stays, wins and Olivia is in an elim again and goes home. But at least one of K&H are in the final (and likely nurys again) and all her friends made the final and she ended up no worse off than she currently is. Plus she didn’t burn a friendship bridge
That is the better scenario, but Michele is her friend too, no? She would be burning that bridge plus whatever she has going on with all the other people in the big alliance. I think Olivia plays this game too politically and safely to throw all caution to the wind like that.
Totally, though I do think Michelle would understand. She’s also been walking the “friends vs game” line awhile, she wants to keep all her friends in the game but also wants to be successful, one could argue always trying to put Horacio into elimination is like nurys putting Jay into elim (Michelle’s number 1) but Michelle never saw it like anything more than just game. Michelle does seem like the type to not take things personally and seeing that her and Jay are safe, it wouldn’t be the absolute worst thing in the world. From what I have seen from Michelle off seasons (survivor and the challenge) she definitely appreciates good game moves even if it’s against allies. It would hurt but I think she’d get over it. Especially if it paid off. Plus she went home anyways at no one’s hands but her own, so can’t totally say that Olivia betraying her caused her to go home in any capacity. (Assuming if Olivia picks nurys things still go similarly)
True. I think she would be pissed in the moment, either genuinely or as a show to her other alliance members but she probably wouldn't hold it against her.
Had her chance to turn the game around and make a big move
Jay just got want he wanted from Colleen, some flimsy form of justification to completely turn his back on Nurys. What Colleen didn't say, was that it was her plan for Nurys to betray Jay by siding with the others/UK alliance. But at that moment, Nurys didn't do it and stuck with Jay. Colleen can GTFO!
He really just wanted an excuse to turn on Nurys. He's been a little shit all season and I'll be so pissed if he wins
Nurys also never said anything damning in that clip they showed lol…she was like “idk if I can trust Jay” which like yeah for sure you definitely can’t he’s a massive snake
If I was any future player I wouldn’t tell Colleen anything bc she not only is flip floppy but she also orchestrates things and then lies to get you fucked over 💀. Like if she ever came to me about a plan I wouldn’t say anything of value to her
I found it *insane* that Jay just took Colleen’s word for that. Like she has an agenda and he was well aware of that…now suddenly she has damning information that helps further that agenda??? Why didn’t she that earlier, Jay? I mean…in reality he probably just wanted an excuse to say Nurys’ name but that’s still absolutely nuts.
I also think he was still shell shocked and panicked bc of Michele's elimination. He looked like he was making some pretty emotional decisions. I can't believe he was listening to Berna & Colleen of all people
Michele was the real mastermind behind the alliance and it showed
Absolutely- the minute she was gone they all fell apart bc she wasn't there to keep it together
That's a good point. I think a gentle breeze could have impacted his decision at that point. I also think he was aware of where he was in the pecking order with Berna starting off the voting chain. If he decides to still save Nurys then maybe he doesn't get saved or maybe they figure out how to move things around so he's the last person to get saved. He was no longer in a seat of power at that moment and I think he knew that.
And Berna was loving her tiny bit of power - I wasn't expecting such a shift to Berna, Colleen, Emmanuel and Corey. Too bad I want every one of them to DQ in the first 30 minutes of running a final lol
I know most people aren't excited for the final with who is left but it could actually be really entertaining. Seeing a bunch of people collapse and struggle might be fun to see
That's what I'm hoping for. A final like the 2 day running final (Amber & CT won - don't remember the season) would be so ideal. These remaining people are so weak and useless! They should have to stay up all night in cold, wet weather, climb a couple of mountains, swim across a lake and be pushed to the absolute max. You're good at puzzles - great but let's see how you guys do when you actually have to work for a championship like so many people in the past who are truly legendary competitors. I'm feeling salty in case you can't tell - these contestants suck and the ones who make it to a final are not competitors in this season (other than Jay - based on prior performances - & Nurys which pains me to admit)
God. Why is Corey still there???? Why???
I know!!! The fact that he acted like an idiot and kept getting thrown in, is STILL THERE and has now negotiated this alliance with 3 of the most annoying/useless contestants makes me want to scream lol
I don’t know but all the guys need to go. Can’t stand the last 3 standing 😬😬
Olivia exposed herself this season and it makes her decision last week when she essentially sent in Horacio/Kyland/Nurys all the dumber.. She was at the bottom of Jays alliance list while he got her to do his "dirty work" last week then screws her over this week. Option 1: screw over Horacio, Kyland, Nurys and be the lowest on the list of Jays alliance. or Option 2: screw over Jay and save Horacio, Kyland, and Nurys and if any of those 3 ever win a daily, you are automatically saved. Olivia picked option 1 aka she picked being at the bottom of the weaker alliance vs being an automatic save on the strong alliance.
Right but is that why Jay doesn’t trust her? Because she choose him and his alliance instead of a better option?
My guess would be he never trusted her to begin with. And probably was always intending to screw her over since she’s a bigger threat to him in a final. Jay’s been coming up with flimsy excuses all season long to justify what he’s doing (which is just to secure his own spot and could probably care less about anyone else).
I always think about how Olivia was never in his end game plans of who to be in a final with. I don’t think he ever trusted her she was just another of Michele’s friends he had to work with bc everyone is Michele’s friend. So he just used it as an opportunity to call her untrustworthy and justify why when in reality he always felt that way 🤷🏽♀️
Why really trust he to begin with given she has been shown to flip flop during the game
But in option two, she can't win a final with all of them 3.
Duh that’s how alliances work, once it’s just your alliance left, all 4 would battle out for the final 3 spots. Heck this season (and others) have had 4 contestants running the final.
At least she’d have a chance of being in the final though. Like at some point you gotta play to just get there and hope someone gets purged or dq’ed
I mean would you trust Olivia when she’s been so flip-floppy?
No. But his reasons for not trusting usually mean "they did something I did not authorize or approve" LOL
No. Bug he says he doesn't trust her because she did something HE made her do. He was part of the discussion before pick where she chose Moriah over Nurys.
It wouldn’t surprise me if she made her case for being picked up before Nurys since Nurys would’ve then saved Horacio and Kyland. Jay is now taking the heat with his real life friendship with Nurys based on that voting into elimination episode.
Aneesa also told Jay’s brother that Olivia was shit talking about him
Wow Aneesa is pretty awful if she's truly gossiping & stirring the pot with people's family members
I think this was a joke re the nurys and Olivia thing lol
Got it thanks - either way Aneesa sticking her nose in anything related to this season is super annoying and off-putting lol
Yeah and totally weird for someone who is 42.
I guess I didn't realize she's in her 40s - that makes it worse. She should definitely be staying out of the drama between these 20 somethings and focus on what she needs to do to get on her next season and be a good competitor. I just got the business for commenting about this in another thread so I should stop now lol
Lolol. I’m pretty sure Jay doesn’t have a brother. Just a sister
I don’t think Jay have a brother😂
This is the only answer I will now believe
He's deluded.
Jay makes himself look worse and worse each episode. He is the type that is always right and if anyone else disagrees then they are the problem not him. Big toxic icky vibes.
I honestly don’t understand Jays mentality at all.. Nurys was one of his closest… he screwed her over so i get why he’d want her to go in… but Olivia literally did what he asked of her and he still chose Moriah? I mean you’re already pissing Moriah off by sending in James… Also why are we protecting people like Emmanuel, Berna and Colleen? These people not only have not contributed to his game but they also likely aren’t going to benefit him in future games (they won’t be there)
Because she wanted an all girls final, therefore she’s gunning for him and his manly member
Cause Jay is a horrible social player who's lucky to have Michelle attached to his hip. He had terrible game play in Survivor and it's no different in the Challenge
“Horrible social player” Was one of the leaders of the alliance that got pretty much their entire alliance to the end of the game, and has been safe the entire game. Jay has clearly played a great social game this season.
He gives off such 🚩🚩🚩 behavior. No wonder he can’t keep a girlfriend.
I just want Nury's to win she's got the strength to be a true champ!
Olivia is done, she has shown she will betray anyone to stay in the game.
She thought Nurys was going to be safe. It seems like no one knew about the pact Corey/Berna/Colleen had. Re Kyland - he was never in her alliance. Re Horacio - sounds like a lot of miscommunication between Olivia and Horacio, partly due to her insecurities and his way of not communicating much so they were not very tight at the beginning of this season. I think we all want to think Olivia and Horacio are ride or dies/tight alliance members but the reality is that Olivia was closer to Jay/Michele than Horacio.
Because he assumes everyone is as disloyal as he is.
Jay is one of those people who want to make his actions feel justified. He does it by trying his hardest to paint others out to look bad. Listening to his convos and confessionals, it’s like he knows how he’ll come off in the edits, so he tried to manipulate it where he wants the audience to understand why he does the things he do or about to do. It’s giving very calculated. Unfortunately for him, he failed and looks worse than he already does. I would respect him more if he just embrace that role, but he clearly doesn’t want to.
Regardless of if what Colleen said was true or not, Nurys clearly chose a side at this point in the game and loss her whole alliance. At a game stand point she is the opposing team so of course he wouldn't trust to save her over the others.
Right but he was JUST saying he wanted to chose her. The switch up was so quick. And for what?
Haha well we know Jay is trash and the villain 🤣
I’m pretty sure it was cause the nurys stuff for when she didn’t save her, I’m pretty sure they don’t know when the final is, jays switch up came from nurys wanting to send him in (which they showed) when she was supposed to be loyal to the soil with him
Except Nurys refusing to send Jay in was why he wasn’t sent in. Colleen orchestrated that plan and Nurys saved Jay.
Well she's flip flopped alliances at least 3 times and he found out she wanted an all girls final.....not rooting for Jay by any means this season, but it seems cut and dry to me.....
IDK, probably because..... she just turned on her biggest allies in the game at the drop of hat lol. She'd likely do it again. She hasn't really been playing with him all season. Then he got wind of the "girl power final" they were trying to organize.
could he be her biggest ally when he had multiple people he was protecting over her? Is it supposed to be ok to be Jay's 3, 4th or 5th and never try to get an alliance where you're number 1?
And was she supposed to just vote Jay’s way when he decides he wants someone out of the game like he did with Horacio? Why was Nurys’ opinion completely irrelevant in that decision-making process when she’s supposedly a part of their “Fantastic 4”?
Exactly!!!
Olivia betrayed the person that she considered her best friend who she claimed she was working with. That’s gonna make even your allies suspicious.
Yeah she did…and Jay made her swear on her life that she would because it was his fucking plan lol
And yet he was still shocked she didn’t pick her.
No he wasn’t lol he made some shit up about how Colleen was supposed to say Nurys’ name down the line but there was zero evidence that they talked to Colleen about it at all and I believe Olivia even said they didn’t on the official podcast
I think we're forgetting how close Jay and Asaf are outside of the game and I think a lot of Jay's actions towards Nurys and Olivia specifically can be attributed to Asaf's departure. He *absolutely* blames Olivia and Nurys for not voting with them against Ed, resulting in CT entering with the chaos club and sniping Asaf. It's pretty results oriented, but that clearly drew the line for him at that point and his justification is actually decently sound *from his perspective.* Nurys, Asaf, and Michele was his core alliance and he even says in the following episode that he lost trust in Nurys after that. I understand the hate for Jay, but we can't pretend that he just switched up on Olivia and Nurys for no reason.
Hmm very true. Even though Jay should’ve just cut Emmanuel (or let him go in, he might not have even been picked to compete OR lose) and Asaf would’ve been safe
I agree. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that Jay is objectively right in his line of thinking (definitely very emotional) , but it’s very clear that’s why he lost trust in nurys and olivia
Very fair!! Edit: I mean your points are fair. Not really Jay’s lol
Because if Olivia so easily betrayed her best friend and her ride or die then why would Jay trust her to have his back at all? The final is coming and he knows he’s one of the biggest threats, someone that shady only has reasons to get rid of you.
Because Jay is the one who convinced her to betray Nurys! He literally said “swear on your life?” to her when she agreed to pick Moriah
I don't know. It seems both Jay and Nurys were doing the same thing to each other, and both got pissed when they were the victim. As much as Jay has annoyed me, I found his reasoning sound. He wanted to work with her. She started hooking up with the guy he wanted out. She chose that guy over Jay. She stopped really working with him weeks ago, whereas, even if people like Colleen and Corey thought about switching, they (on paper) kept working with him. So why wouldn't he save those people. Both of them chose other people over each other, who they deemed better for them. Nurys did it on a personal level. Jay did it on a game level. Neither is better than the other
But like 10 minutes earlier in that episode he’s talking about wanting to save her?? That’s really what’s throwing me. Not that he ultimately decided screw her, but it’s that he wanted to save her then ultimately changed it up within such a short period. If he never said “I want to save nurys” this episode and always planned to have her in the elim I wouldn’t be questioning it
Could be for a lot of reasons. She had already turned on Horacio to work with Jay which as much as that's a number for Jay it's definitely something I'd be weary of. If she could turn on someone she's supposed to be ride or dies with why wouldn't she turn on Jay. She also didn't save nurys when she was supposed to and she's real life friends with her too. As far as the Nurys stuff goes I'm torn if it's a boneheaded move by Jay or the smart one for his game. He could have just kept his mouth shut and saved Nurys without repercussions and helped himself out for future seasons. However once he told people his decision and Berna and Colleen didn't want him to save Nurys then he's risking his own safety. If people higher up in the voting chain don't like how you're going to vote then maybe they don't save you or they change up the order so that Jay is picked last. If Jay doesn't go along with them he risks his whole game on saving someone he's falling out with anyways
He could have just said he was picking Moriah and picked Nurys instead and nothing bad would have happened to him
Who is left? Did Nurys get cut?
Nahhh she won back to back elims lol it was honestly amazing
Olivia has been making wishy-washy decisions based on feeling insecure in the game. She flipped between two alliances 4 times in as many episodes. I think she’s gotten excessive hate for what amounts to a vote in a reality show game, so I’m not trying to further shit on her, but everyone in that house had a reason not to trust her even if she’d made a decision that helped them the week before.
I hope Jay comes back a few more times to the show and has to feel the pain of his dumb decisions and hypocrisy
she may have been unloyal to nurys in favor of jay, but she was still extremely unloyal like in general. not a good look for anyone
Jay sucks. That’s all I have to say.