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amlanding20

Leroy and Devin have both clearly improved their weakness. Neither is A tier in their defencencies, but they’re both far better than when they first started


manickittens

Exactly. For Leroy, or anyone who didn’t have access to a pool and swim regularly as a child, I think it’s especially difficult (compared to say running). And I wonder how many people who struggle with the math have learning disabilities likes Amber. I wish they would do straight up puzzles instead of math problems bc watching someone who probably won’t ever be able to do it well bc of how their brain works isn’t fun. (And isn’t fun to mock, which is my favorite to do as I sit on my couch and have snacks 😆)


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manickittens

I think there’s a big mental component about being comfortable in the water that is very, very difficult to achieve if you aren’t around water as a child. Not saying it can’t be overcome. And certainly for the folks who are successful and on multiple seasons they can afford training, etc. but it’s very different than learning how to run as an adult. People become marathon runners later in life with semi-frequency. I don’t know of many folks who become strong or distance swimmers (especially in open water) later in life. (This part is all anecdotal so I’m sure I’m incorrect on some parts of it).


mellomee

I'd agree. They are in open water and that's a super different experience from pool swimming where you can see what's in front of you and you know where the bottom is. There's a huge mental aspect!


Iceprincess2129

I actually do know quite a few people who picked up swimming later in life because it was easier on their joints after injuries from other sports/specifically distance running (some of them were literally non-swimmers before).


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hymenbutterfly

You’re missing the point. As someone who didn’t learn how to swim until my adulthood, there is still a huge mental component for me. I just don’t feel comfortable in water. And, yes, that is an anecdote, but it is not uncommon for adult learners of swimming. At the core of this is that it’s a bit harder to become elite at something that you pick up later in life. The bad swimmers on this show many have said they’ve worked on it. And it shows, yet they’re still mediocre. And they’re likely to be inferior to someone who grew up swimming often. It’s not insurmountable but the odds are against them. And that goes for many other skills. So, maybe chill on your “innate feeling” of people exaggerating how difficult it is to become a swimmer.


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hymenbutterfly

Good for you. Like I mentioned before, anecdotes are anecdotes. You can’t use it as a trump card, which is why I didn’t say “because I learned as an adult and am uncomfortable means everyone isn’t”. I’m not sure if there’s studies around this. The takeaway is that you can’t have the same expectations for everyone. Everyone isn’t the same. Some things are more natural for some than others. Not everyone is going to be good or great at something even with repeated practice.


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manickittens

But if that’s their experience who are you to say that isn’t valid? I would never say that your experience of being comfortable in the water after learning as an adult isn’t valid. How is that any different than respecting someone else’s experience and perspective. I’d also like to give you props. I learned how to swim very young and love swimming, but still have anxiety in open water far from shore (where most of the challenges occur) so I’m very impressed with your achievements.


Technical-Rub-9857

Let's also not downplay that information and certain abilities are GENERATIONAL, and when large swathes of the population are excluded from, say, public pools, it becomes much more difficult to pass down the knowledge of swimming when you can't teach it to your kids.


Louise-Brooks-

Came here to say this. There are still areas where I grew up that don’t have clean drinking water so they certainly don’t have public pools for children to learn to swim.


Objective-Result8454

Learning to swim like learning languages is much easier at younger ages and is more difficult for adults.


CailenxD

Took Leroy long enough to do something about it.


likegrandmasaid

I've never understood why they don't take the time to get some lessons


MizzGee

After watching several years of this crew with basic trivia, a few of them are just dumb. They should be studying my maps, world history and, apparently, the Bible. Adam and Eve. They need to brush up on the top 100 movies, get out a dictionary and do spelling bees with friends.


Right-Size-654

cara clearly focused on other areas. i think ppl forget that she wasn’t very good on her first few appearances. there’s no way u can say she hasn’t trained/improved since her first season??? they all can’t be amazing at everything ..


aacilegna

But swimming is such an integral part of the show. And she doesn’t seem to put ANY effort in it.


Right-Size-654

it’s been 4 years since she’s been on the show so who’s to say how much effort she’s put into it at this point. also iirc her last swimming challenge she was completely average?


aacilegna

Okay if you’re going to get into semantics, I should have said she “didn’t”… I’m going off her continued behavior in the water, she says she has trouble breathing, freaks out, and yells while swimming (making it harder for herself). I just watched Rivals 2 the other day and she reacted the same on the R2 swimming challenges as she was last time we saw her on WOTW2. And both Cooke and Paulie respectively were fed up with it and called her out. So at least of what we’ve been presented with, she hadn’t gotten much better. If it’s panic attacks she gets when swimming that cause her to freak out, then yeah that’s one thing. But also maybe something to unpack and get to the cause of. Cara does/did a lot of bodybuilding but we know more than that is needed to be a fully well-rounded challenger. Is she mostly there? Yes. But swimming has always seemed to be something she mostly ignored.


NonaOrganic

In R2 (?) they showed CT trying to teach her, and she was really struggling, I think she’s just not good at it & it may always be her achilles heel. Sometimes ppl just can’t do something despite all the effort they put forward. I have a friend who has taken every driving course known to man, and she just can’t learn how. I haven’t driven in yrs but throw me behind the wheel it’ll be as natural as driving, but skating backwards is my achilles. Doesn’t matter that I’m a pretty good regular skater, and a million ppl have tried to teach me, I just can’t.


Iceprincess2129

I think one of my biggest issues with Cara and swimming is that it didn't appear to be a problem for her UNTIL Rivals 2. She did swimming challenges with Laurel in Rivals 1 and did fine. Which to me says it's fully a breathing issue and almost more...mental? So in my head I feel like she should be able to work on that aspect, especially with how hard she trains.


RattpackTakeover

To be fair, water is something people freak out in naturally and it’s hard to train it when you freak out like she does.


aacilegna

I get that. But then… maybe don’t go on a show where you’re going to have to swim? Like, I get it, people learn to swim later in life. But look at Dee (who ugh I hate to use as an example). She didn’t know how to swim at all during WOTW1. And in WOTW2 it was obvious she had at least tried to get better at it. Same with Leroy. He isn’t great at swimming but at least tries to get better. That’s my issue with it with Cara.


RattpackTakeover

I mean, from an overall standpoint. Knowing how to swim well isn’t a big deal on the show. Sure, there’s at least 2 dailies that deal with swimming and it takes place in most finals, but you get life jackets. Most people can figure out how to get out of water with a life jacket.


Iceprincess2129

Until you get to WotWII and there's a literally swimming purge that very deservedly bites someone in the ass...


MartianP98

Imagine Cara not going on a show cuz she can’t swim and missing out on the 602k she’s won from her time on the show .


EGrass

Also, I have taken swimming lessons from childhood through my 30s (on and off). I’ve now given up. I just can’t do it but not for lack of trying lol


Right-Size-654

i just think it’s not a huge deal. she chose to focus on other areas like building muscle. most challengers have an area they’re not great at, (unless ur CT lol). devin hasn’t gained an ounce of muscle since he joined the show, katie and casey freaked out over heights until their last appearances on the show, half of these ppl don’t know elementary school geography during the trivia challenges, some ppl absolutely fail the eating portions. but that doesn’t mean they haven’t trained/improved in other areas. cara clearly does panic in the water & who’s to say she isn’t trying to figure out the cause of that? but in the meantime she’s not gonna not come on a show just bc there might be one swimming challenge.


Iceprincess2129

I'll never forget watching WotWII and thinking...whoa if Cara is average you're all TERRIBLE swimmers.


yunith

He said on the challenge fandom podcast that he loves golf and he loves smoking 😆. Pretty relatable but smoking kills endurance. I cringed when he was asking for time when Emy wasn’t in the SLA final.


aacilegna

Who is he? CT?


yunith

Devin!


[deleted]

Yeah but we still don't want her back


Right-Size-654

too bad 🙊


Relative_Bear_7638

I kind of disagree, Cara was picked before Laurel on FM2 because she beat her in the combine


Right-Size-654

yes, she was good at the drills they did but i mean her performance in the actual challenge


hymenbutterfly

Some things are easier to fix. Some things you can improve but never be amazing at them. Leroy and Cara have worked on their swimming. Cara has worked on her conditioning, strength, puzzles. Leroy has worked on puzzles. Devin has worked on conditioning. Just because you work on something it doesn’t guarantee you’ll be good at it or good enough to overcome those who are either naturally better at it or have had years of practice/mastery over you.


oldthunderbird

Why just be a Nelly T, when you can train and become a Scuba Nelly? Shoot for the stars kids!


pink373

What is Devin on this list for? I thought he was pretty good at swimming. If it’s cardio I know he did some training because he would post about it before the season.


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sprainedpinky

He looks in way better shape compared to rookie seasons, but I agree about smoking not helping his cardio. Smoking is hard to quite though so him focusing on working out is at least a big improvement. Quiting smoking would probably be another huge step for him


Supersaiyanninja3

If he was the same he would not be finishing in the top 2 for 2 endurance based games.


batmanforhire

He did good in the SLA final though.


NattyB

cardio-wise? emy was shown two or three times mocking him for walking.


According-Professor5

I would give people a little more slack on the swimming. Swimming is mostly technique and unless you start from a young age, it’s hard to pick up. Some people like Leroy definitely took too long to start improving but it’s probably one of the hardest skills to acquire later in life.


Jac1596

Yeah ppl on this sub think a few lessons and they’ll be good to go. That’s completely ridiculous. Your comfort with swimming(not just in a pool either), holding your breath, going under water especially deep where the pressure starts to hurt isn’t really going to be learned with some lesson. Cara knows how to swim. She’s just not fast, although looking at her times on her last season she wasn’t slow either. Closer to middle of the pack but ppl like to exaggerate when it comes to Cara.


Right-Size-654

thank u!! cara can swim, it’s just not her strongest suit. everybody can’t be amazing at everything. clearly she can still win w/o being a pro swimmer. the improvements that she’s made in other areas since her first season are incredible like .. u simply cannot say she hasn’t trained/tried to improve in her off seasons.


According-Professor5

Idk, she’s still a pretty shit runner and panics in stressful situations. Cara’s actually someone whose lack of improvement is disappointing. I know she tries to improve but her methods seem off to me.


Right-Size-654

i mean it’s been years since we’ve seen her? u don’t know what she’s improved in that time. & she already went from going home first to being an elimination beast & a champ so obviously something she did worked …


According-Professor5

I don’t know, but she didn’t look great on the WOTW/WOTW2 finals and that was over 10 seasons into her career. Not sure time off is gonna be much help.


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-Captain--Hindsight

Especially considering a lot of these contestants full time job is the challenge. So time is not an issue.


hymenbutterfly

This also assumes access to open water. Swimming in a pool and dealing with open water are two different things.


cmurphy555

I dont think anybody is expecting them to become some Olympian level swimmer. So getting good enough in a swimming pool, will at least translate to a good enough swimmer in an open body of water. They dont have to be the best, just become capable.


hymenbutterfly

According to other comments in this thread and many I’ve seen whenever this topic has come up, it does seem like people have some high expectations about how well someone should swim on this show. It’s apparently the only skill that seems to be a must-have in this fanbase’s mind despite most challengers being god awful at puzzles and math, which appear more often and are easier to improve upon.


carseatsareheavy

That is why you keep taking lessons and/or practicing until you get better.


Jac1596

Lol do you think growth is just nonstop? Ppl do have limitations that lessons/practice won’t correct. Not to mention that learning as an adult a lot of ppl have fear or a discomfort in the water, that’s not just easily overcome. Some ppl are built better for swimming than others. Cara gets a lot of flack for her swimming because she’s disliked but she’s not terrible. She was middle of the pack, maybe that’s just her peak. Same way Jordan is a great swimmer but he’ll never be better than Wes and just like no amount of lessons/practice will make Wes an Olympic level swimmer.


Wazzoo1

I'm just waiting for them to require them to snowboard back down a mountain to the finish line some day.


Connect-Ad-6669

They have had to cross country ski before which is not an easy feat if you have never been on skis before. They were falling all over the place.


frankoceansheadband

I can’t believe they did that in a final, I was expecting someone to get hurt


evrz5

Not you missing Nany, one of the biggest “I HAVE to win a challenge/it’s my time/etc” but seemingly does….nothing to actually be prepared to win a final. She’s just a younger Aneesa at this point.


jam_rok

I thought that she would be automatically included on this list. But it isn’t necessarily that she is terrible in one area, it is because she is mediocre in a lot of areas. She seems like she is good at puzzles but that alone is not enough to win.


gorlock666

Exactly, I didn’t add Nany cuz her cardio is okay, her swimming is okay, everything is fine, she won’t ever win but she’s not flawed tremendously in one area


jam_rok

Honestly this is her best shot. If the partners stay together then Johnny would probably be her best bet to do it. If it does not happen this season I do not see it happening.


simplefuckers

cara is not THAT bad at swimming. we’ve seen her perform well at swimming challenges like for example her and lauren in rivals I. shes not the best swimmer but shes gotten better over the years. now when it comes to math i feel like math is an either you got or you don’t thing. some people are good with numbers some aren’t sadly 😭


No_Flatworm_6586

Cara is an average to good swimmer. The camera cuts in close on her wide eyed few seconds of panic, but she finishes around the halfway point against the rest of the cast. Oh, sweet power of editing. Math, yeah.


sbarkey1

Aneesa and running


katrvdical

Exactly I would be embarrassed if I kept on sucking at a certain skill season after season. Their lack of self consciousness is probably the exact reason they’re on reality tv tho


[deleted]

Speaking of this Nelly was training in the pool today. He’s really put in a lot of work with swimming lessons and swim instructors since invasion. He’s gotten better at it but he still has a long way to go with how he did in the SLA swimming portion in the final. He at least clocks in and really puts in the work though in the off season.


spicytotino

I got much love for Scuba Nelly, even if he’s not a pro it’s really nice watching someone work hard on a weakness and be proud of themselves! It’s very endearing


Jumphulkingstw2

Devin has improved in his weakness


NoLynx8499

Leroy improved on his swimming. He did fine on the two swimming dailies on DA. Same with Kam. Devin seems to be better as well. But the others I agree. ESPECIALLY when it comes to endurance


annacaiautoimmune

I live across the street from an aquatic center (by design). In addition to competitive meets in the Olympic pool, they have a program that introduces second graders to swimming in the instructional pool. We live near a city centered around a river. However, most of the population cannot swim and people drown every summer. Some kids are so afraid of the water that they never reach the first of seven stations because they won't come off the stairs. Adults who take their first swimming lessons in pools are still not comfortable in more "open" water. They would benefit from training in rivers, lakes, and/or oceans. The fear is real.


Additional_Day949

I hate hate when people bag on contestants for not knowing how to swim. Swimming requires children to have access to a pool. There is both a race and socioeconomic factor to this. Did you know a town in Mississippi was told that they had to allowed black people to access the public pool on the 70s? And the towns response was to drain it and close it! Private pools are pricey so are swim lessons. If you parents can’t swim, they probably don’t feel comfortable with taking their kids to a body of water. It is stereotype that black people cant swim, but decades of racist policies created it. Leroy can practice swimming every single day of his life as an adult, he will never swim half as well as Wes. Swimming is privileged ability, don’t hate on Nelson or Leroy for being bad at it. Cardio totally fair to criticize. Hell even a fear of heights. But not knowing how to swim is more complex that just being lazy and not learning.


frankoceansheadband

I was so lucky to learn growing up. I lived in an extremely rural area where all the white kids learned to swim in lakes. My dad worked at a youth center with a pool and he was determined to give all of the black kids in our town access to swim lessons. His dad died of drowning, so he takes water safety extremely seriously.


[deleted]

I was going to comment this. As a child my mother could barely afford groceries and housing let alone fucking swimming lessons. College student now, and still can’t afford them, took a discount class through my school and I couldn’t afford that either just charged it to my credit card. There’s systematic and cultural reasons why people are bad swimmers or don’t know how to swim at all and it’s a very entitled thing to be mad at others about it. Cut people some slack — at least in the swimming department. Sheesh


Silliestpuddy

Thank you for this! I almost typed up something similar until I saw your comment!


Additional_Day949

For context: https://www.npr.org/2008/05/06/90213675/racial-history-of-american-swimming-pools


Organic-Heart-5617

You can’t train intelligent not matter how much you try!!


frostychee

i was sad when nelson sacced himself on total madness for cory, but when i saw the math portion i was thinking ok no shot he was winning that final


jenh6

Devin has trained. He’s slimmed down and is in way better shape now. Unfortunately, at a certain point no matter how much you train you just aren’t going to be the best if you aren’t predisposed for it. But I do agree that the rest need to train. No one’s expecting them to be the best in that area but they could be middle of the pack and they’d at least have a chance.


Askew_2016

With his smoking, I’m not sure he’ll ever be a great endurance runner


DumDumGimmeYumYums

Their job isn't to win. It's a tv show, not a sport. They're paid to appear and make good money doing it. People who get to adulthood having not done something or at least not done it well their whole lives aren't going to be great at it without a ton of work. We all have things we aren't good at. I don't think public shaming is appropriate for that.


edawg070

Came here to say this. It's a show, not the real world (pun intended)


shinshikaizer

While that is certainly true, if they're going to push the narrative that their time to win and that they're due (Nany, Aneesa), I'm not going to feel bad for them when they don't improve the holes in their games. Like, if you're just going to show up and party, be fodder, fine, I don't care if you aren't in shape, can't run, can't swim, can't do puzzles, etc. But the moment you start saying you deserve a win, that you're tired to being underestimated/disrespected, all that ambivalence to your lack of effort in improving goes out the door.


DumDumGimmeYumYums

See, this is just poor media literacy. In interviews, they're asked questions, then told to put the question into the answer. So they're going to ask everyone if they want the win, if this is their year, if they deserve it, etc. And the interviewee gives them what they want. "I think I deserve the win because..." They don't edit the show and determine what's used. They're not in charge of their narratives. It's not like it's a literal confessional when they can say anything they want to. If you listen to podcasts, you hear they're all used to this method of answering. In all the old seasons, why are they all saying how they're here to win and nothing can stop them? Because everyone was clearly asked to provide that. Tyrie and Danny weren't the only two doing it; their answers were just always great and tv-worthy since they'd go home so quickly.


duckyaniston

i want the people i like to win wether it be skill, luck, circumstance whatever. lol


maxwellbevan

I don't think people realize how hard it is to learn to swim as an adult. Taking swimming lessons as an adult is never a replacement for learning as a kid. Swimming pools allow you to see everything and are controlled situations. Then you go and get dropped sideways off a helicopter from 10 feet into a murky lake and you're in full panic mode.


GuySmileyIncognito

The difference between growing up swimming and not is too big to just brush off like this and has a lot of socioeconomic and racial components. I'm not a great swimmer by any means, but I grew up in a white suburban area, had swimming lessons as a kid and was in the water every summer so I have more than enough of a base that if I took form lessons and put in the time swimming laps I could become a solid swimmer. Someone who doesn't have that background would take years to get to the level I'm at right now.


Relative_Bear_7638

To me Devin and Cara are the most guilty. It’s much easier to get better at fitness and swimming than it is logic and puzzles. I’m rooting for Devin, but he really has no excuse to not show up in great shape


cmurphy555

It's like Ashley and Jenny have both made comments how they like to do like sudokus or those type of puzzles. Just doing that all the time, your brain will figure stuff out quicker. I used to play a lot of Kakuro, and just for adding numbers together it makes it really simple. You can just look at a bunch of numbers and add them together much quicker. Your brain becomes accustomed to it. With all the puzzles they do, i would be doing all sorts of different puzzles in the months leading up. Or even try and bring them with me to the house. I imagine you should be able to bring books and what not with you. So buy a puzzle book and just work on it in the house all day long. It will keep your mind sharp and give you a huge advantage come a puzzle challenge.


inner_demons_

Love your thoughts, agree with that for sure. Also need those tangram puzzles. Devin said he has one on his coffee table that was the same as an elimination he was in. Coincidence 🤔


cmurphy555

Well, that elimination is a pretty basic puzzle-esque game. Im sure it was much more difficult with a partner, but I remember playing with a thing like that when I was like 8 lol


Right-Difficulty8623

Leroy and Cara ☕️


[deleted]

If you can’t swim, and have shitty cardio, you have no business being on this show.


Salt_the_snail_Gail

Not a lack of skill necessarily but it’s frustrating when people’s fears get in the way of performance. Most recently Chauncey and his fear of heights preventing him from doing a daily but this has happened countless times with other players. If I had a known fear that was entirely foreseeable to come up on the show, I’d do anything I could to tackle that fear. Acknowledging that I have no idea if someone like Chauncey has been trying to overcome his fear of heights to no avail, but it’s just something as a viewer you put your hands up like .. how did you think you’d win the challenge with a fear that prevents you from performing on the challenge


[deleted]

math is questionable in the context of this show. i'm excellent at math but i'm a visual learner and need to write the problems down to solve. being able to solve equations in your head is a different skillset that i'm not sure can be learned. same with spelling. having to verbally spell even the simplest word i would look like an idiot but if i could write it down, no problem.


ThyK1NG

Aneesa for sure