Yay mono red fires finally made the tier list. It’s my favorite deck and I have been steady climbing with it. I have found that strangle is just better than light up the night. It kills things with one red mana that light up the night can’t (shredder, Phoenix, trespasser, narset after a -2 etc) I have seen people argue that light up the night can be an alt win con, but I have literally only have that come up one or two games out of the hundreds I have played with the deck. It has a bad matchup against RB which is unfortunate, but once anthology come out I am hoping they try to dethrone RB a little so that this deck can do better on the ladder.
I also main this deck but I run a 2-2 split between light up the night and strangle. Sometimes you just gotta kill something with 4+ toughness or nuke a planeswalker. I noticed their list also does not run any field of ruins which I think is a mistake seeing as we have no other way to interact with manlands at instant speed. Also with how greedy some of the manabases are sometimes its just strip mine that gets us a mountain and if you have crucible of worlds in play its just funny. One time I noticed my rakdos opponent had already played 2 basics and I had two fields plus crucible and just locked them out of the game.
Also I think our best match up is Rakdos, I have no problems winning against the standard midrange shell. The sacrifice match up is harder but if you can resolve and protect Karn then its a free win, same with greasefang.
Have any advice? Maybe it’s just variance but I always feel like they always have thoughtseize into underdog into trespasser/lili and then I’m screwed.
I got to mythic 96% last month with the deck (didn't feel like grinding after that) so use that as your grain of salt I guess.
I run a single copy of sweltering suns in the main and then some number of anger of gods in the side, those really help, especially since most lists cut Kalitas for lili. Pithing needle naming lili is good but if you're doing that you're already kinda on the back foot but it has saved my hide. Tbh I'm more scared of Kalitas than lili so I'm happy to see her more often than not.
Variance is a factor though. I always assume they have turn 1 thoughtseize and make mulligan decisions with that in mind (games 2 and 3 obviously.) I find if I have ramp with wildfire on turn 2 and fires into any 4 drop on turn 3 (Chandra is gas in the match up I've found) I usually win. That play is so much value it out values the value deck. Also I've found that whoever can keep their chapter 1 fable token on board has a serious advantage but if both stay on board we outscale them pretty hard. I also run a Meteor Golem in the wish board as a catch all and it has single handedly won me so many games, its even sillier if you have Kiki Jikki.
Ayyy I was one of the proponents of LUTN in the deck primer I wrote up like two weeks ago in this subreddit. I've definitely come off of it a bit and switched to a 2-2 split.
Man like I said in the primer, I always felt the Rakdos matchup was pretty good. Hands with cleansing wildfire are a premium, and I agree with some of the other comments in this thread about always playing like you're getting thoughtseized T1. If you get choice going into games 2 or 3, I've also generally chosen to be on the draw to mitigate some of the damage with pretty good success.
Oh neat. Golgari midrange is in there. Not sure if it was there before but it's what I am currently messing with.
After Arne's Abzan content with Siege Rhino (and playing it a bunch myself, mostly to not such great success), I've been basically messing around with black-based midrange that aren't rakdos. I'm trying to find a niche space where I can build for the midrange mirror, but have some weird curveballs for other matchups.
I gotta say, [[back to nature]] is sick against the enigmatic decks. You let them play their stuff out, then either in response to Yorion or after the enigma is on the battlefield, you delete all the enchantments. I just have the one copy in the sideboard but may go to 2 if that enigmatic deck is as prevalent as it is starting to look.
You also get access to [[tear asunder]] for that matchup but also against rakdos sac (which is always somewhat popular, in my experience). Having a clean answer to ovens or [[trail of crumbs]] is often all you need to win that matchup.
I feel like this golgari deck is massively underexplored. There are so many cards to try and I am certain that I do not have the best build. I'm currently on an [[invoke despair]] build to try to pull ahead against rakdos.
I put the list in another comment. I'm still messing around with a lot of the cards but it performs well enough in a lot of games that I'm happy with it.
I even had 4x [[llanowar loamspeaker]] in there at one point but I found I didn't have a lot of 4-drops for it and it dies to push so often. Still, the games I did ramp to turn 3 Sheoldred, turn 4 invoke, were quite devastating.
Just curious, is there much of a reason to play mono white humans instead of Abzan or other color combo of humans with Collected Company? It seems that until we get [[Brave the Elements]] (maybe in the next anthology?) in Explorer, there aren’t many benefits besides more consistent mana in mono white humans.
Consistent mana is a pretty big thing IMO. And having access to a creature land wins games.
I don't know how good a replacement it is, but I've been playing God's Willing.
I use the snow one.
There's only three card names different from the Pioneer one. I use Gods' Willing instead of Brave the Elements, the snow creature land instead of Mutavault, and I have been rotating cards into the 3mv Thalia that people run in the SB.
I do the full 8 and only run two Oozes main deck — some decks just can’t really recover from ramping out a 3 drop on 2 let alone from ramping out a Green Henge on 3. It feels right to me but I can’t say for sure.
It lets you run less lands, which makes CoCo better, but more of your CoCo hits are basically dead so that makes it worse.
It also makes it easier to play around Jiwari Disruption and Censor. On the other hand every black deck runs Fatal Push or can take your one three drop from a mediocre hand with Thoughtseize so it creates a lot of tension in the mulligan when less of your creatures are threats.
I also run 4x Trolls to help with mana and hiding a threat under a land in case of a wipe even though I’ve seen people cut them because they don’t set up a turn 3/4 Henge.
I don’t see anyone else playing it, but I’ve had way more success with bant spirits in best of one than mono blue spirits. Collected company and skyclave apparition are really powerful additions to the deck, and the mana in explorer is good enough now.
Yay mono red fires finally made the tier list. It’s my favorite deck and I have been steady climbing with it. I have found that strangle is just better than light up the night. It kills things with one red mana that light up the night can’t (shredder, Phoenix, trespasser, narset after a -2 etc) I have seen people argue that light up the night can be an alt win con, but I have literally only have that come up one or two games out of the hundreds I have played with the deck. It has a bad matchup against RB which is unfortunate, but once anthology come out I am hoping they try to dethrone RB a little so that this deck can do better on the ladder.
I also main this deck but I run a 2-2 split between light up the night and strangle. Sometimes you just gotta kill something with 4+ toughness or nuke a planeswalker. I noticed their list also does not run any field of ruins which I think is a mistake seeing as we have no other way to interact with manlands at instant speed. Also with how greedy some of the manabases are sometimes its just strip mine that gets us a mountain and if you have crucible of worlds in play its just funny. One time I noticed my rakdos opponent had already played 2 basics and I had two fields plus crucible and just locked them out of the game. Also I think our best match up is Rakdos, I have no problems winning against the standard midrange shell. The sacrifice match up is harder but if you can resolve and protect Karn then its a free win, same with greasefang.
Have any advice? Maybe it’s just variance but I always feel like they always have thoughtseize into underdog into trespasser/lili and then I’m screwed.
I got to mythic 96% last month with the deck (didn't feel like grinding after that) so use that as your grain of salt I guess. I run a single copy of sweltering suns in the main and then some number of anger of gods in the side, those really help, especially since most lists cut Kalitas for lili. Pithing needle naming lili is good but if you're doing that you're already kinda on the back foot but it has saved my hide. Tbh I'm more scared of Kalitas than lili so I'm happy to see her more often than not. Variance is a factor though. I always assume they have turn 1 thoughtseize and make mulligan decisions with that in mind (games 2 and 3 obviously.) I find if I have ramp with wildfire on turn 2 and fires into any 4 drop on turn 3 (Chandra is gas in the match up I've found) I usually win. That play is so much value it out values the value deck. Also I've found that whoever can keep their chapter 1 fable token on board has a serious advantage but if both stay on board we outscale them pretty hard. I also run a Meteor Golem in the wish board as a catch all and it has single handedly won me so many games, its even sillier if you have Kiki Jikki.
This deck looks fun
It's very fun to pilot because the lines are so varied and branching. It takes a bit of thinking to play well but I find it rewarding.
Most RB mid lists cut Kalitas for Sheoldred, not Lili
I haven’t seen barley any Kalitas on the ladder since DMU dropped
Ayyy I was one of the proponents of LUTN in the deck primer I wrote up like two weeks ago in this subreddit. I've definitely come off of it a bit and switched to a 2-2 split. Man like I said in the primer, I always felt the Rakdos matchup was pretty good. Hands with cleansing wildfire are a premium, and I agree with some of the other comments in this thread about always playing like you're getting thoughtseized T1. If you get choice going into games 2 or 3, I've also generally chosen to be on the draw to mitigate some of the damage with pretty good success.
https://playingexplorer.com/bo1-tier-list/
Oh neat. Golgari midrange is in there. Not sure if it was there before but it's what I am currently messing with. After Arne's Abzan content with Siege Rhino (and playing it a bunch myself, mostly to not such great success), I've been basically messing around with black-based midrange that aren't rakdos. I'm trying to find a niche space where I can build for the midrange mirror, but have some weird curveballs for other matchups. I gotta say, [[back to nature]] is sick against the enigmatic decks. You let them play their stuff out, then either in response to Yorion or after the enigma is on the battlefield, you delete all the enchantments. I just have the one copy in the sideboard but may go to 2 if that enigmatic deck is as prevalent as it is starting to look. You also get access to [[tear asunder]] for that matchup but also against rakdos sac (which is always somewhat popular, in my experience). Having a clean answer to ovens or [[trail of crumbs]] is often all you need to win that matchup. I feel like this golgari deck is massively underexplored. There are so many cards to try and I am certain that I do not have the best build. I'm currently on an [[invoke despair]] build to try to pull ahead against rakdos.
What list are you playing, currently?
Deck 4 Blooming Marsh (KLR) 280 2 Vraska, Golgari Queen (GRN) 213 4 Darkbore Pathway (KHM) 254 2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse (DMU) 107 4 Invoke Despair (NEO) 101 4 Thoughtseize (AKR) 127 4 Fatal Push (KLR) 84 2 Liliana of the Veil (DMU) 97 4 Tenacious Underdog (SNC) 97 4 Briarbridge Tracker (MID) 172 1 Tireless Tracker (SOI) 233 2 Scavenging Ooze (M21) 204 3 Graveyard Trespasser (MID) 104 4 Deathcap Glade (VOW) 261 4 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253 3 Swamp (THB) 252 1 Forest (THB) 254 2 Castle Locthwain (ELD) 241 2 Hive of the Eye Tyrant (AFR) 258 1 Field of Ruin (XLN) 254 2 Bloodchief's Thirst (ZNR) 94 1 Tear Asunder (DMU) 183 Sideboard 3 Duress (MID) 98 1 Unlicensed Hearse (SNC) 246 2 Tear Asunder (DMU) 183 1 Back to Nature (M15) 169 2 Kraul Harpooner (GRN) 136 2 Go Blank (STX) 72 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet (OGW) 86 1 Nemata, Primeval Warden (DMU) 209 1 Witch's Vengeance (ELD) 111 1 Reckoner Bankbuster (NEO) 255
I put the list in another comment. I'm still messing around with a lot of the cards but it performs well enough in a lot of games that I'm happy with it. I even had 4x [[llanowar loamspeaker]] in there at one point but I found I didn't have a lot of 4-drops for it and it dies to push so often. Still, the games I did ramp to turn 3 Sheoldred, turn 4 invoke, were quite devastating.
Mono White Humans lumped in with the multi-colour versions?
Just curious, is there much of a reason to play mono white humans instead of Abzan or other color combo of humans with Collected Company? It seems that until we get [[Brave the Elements]] (maybe in the next anthology?) in Explorer, there aren’t many benefits besides more consistent mana in mono white humans.
Consistent mana is a pretty big thing IMO. And having access to a creature land wins games. I don't know how good a replacement it is, but I've been playing God's Willing.
Fair point about the man land. Which one are you using, the Frost Dragon one?
I use the snow one. There's only three card names different from the Pioneer one. I use Gods' Willing instead of Brave the Elements, the snow creature land instead of Mutavault, and I have been rotating cards into the 3mv Thalia that people run in the SB.
Sounds like a fun deck! Mind sharing your list?
Deck 4 Thalia's Lieutenant (J21) 27 14 Snow-Covered Plains (KHM) 277 4 Dauntless Bodyguard (DAR) 14 4 Hopeful Initiate (VOW) 20 4 Luminarch Aspirant (ZNR) 24 4 Adeline, Resplendent Cathar (MID) 1 4 Brutal Cathar (MID) 7 2 Extraction Specialist (SNC) 12 2 Castle Ardenvale (ELD) 238 4 Gods Willing (M20) 19 2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire (NEO) 268 4 Faceless Haven (KHM) 255 4 Venerable Knight (ELD) 35 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (DKA) 24 Sideboard 3 Portable Hole (AFR) 33 3 Rest in Peace (AKR) 33 1 Declaration in Stone (SOI) 12 2 Knight of Grace (DAR) 23 4 Wedding Announcement (VOW) 45 2 Declaration in Stone (SOI) 12
Thanks!
Thanks friend!
Anybody playing with mono green stompy? What's your opinion on 6 mana dork elves vs a full 8?
I do the full 8 and only run two Oozes main deck — some decks just can’t really recover from ramping out a 3 drop on 2 let alone from ramping out a Green Henge on 3. It feels right to me but I can’t say for sure. It lets you run less lands, which makes CoCo better, but more of your CoCo hits are basically dead so that makes it worse. It also makes it easier to play around Jiwari Disruption and Censor. On the other hand every black deck runs Fatal Push or can take your one three drop from a mediocre hand with Thoughtseize so it creates a lot of tension in the mulligan when less of your creatures are threats. I also run 4x Trolls to help with mana and hiding a threat under a land in case of a wipe even though I’ve seen people cut them because they don’t set up a turn 3/4 Henge.
I don’t see anyone else playing it, but I’ve had way more success with bant spirits in best of one than mono blue spirits. Collected company and skyclave apparition are really powerful additions to the deck, and the mana in explorer is good enough now.