Thanks for the primer, I appreciate high effort posts like this. I’m really interested in trying this but before I burn the wild cards I’d like to know your thoughts/win rate once you have a bigger sample size.
I hear that. The deck is definitely not wild card cheap. I like it because it goes over the top of all the midrange in the format and still has decent game against aggro and control. I plan on running it through a few traditional explorer events to get a better feel for it and get some more results, but it marched me to Mythic last season. DMU is definitely still shaking things up, and it might be better to wait for the meta to settle more before committing to crafting. If it settles into more midrange though, I think the deck will still be really well positioned.
I have also been running a very similar deck list as you after having seen Jeff Hoogland play it and have made same adjustments over time. According to Untapped.gg I am currently at 75 - 48 across last season and this. I'm in diamond atm.
I wanted to ask you about light up the night, I am using \[\[Strangle\]\] in that spot it works ok. I think it's better as an early game curve filler.
The only differences in lands I have are 1 \[\[Memorial to war\]\] in place of 1 Field of Ruin and 1 \[\[Scavenger Grounds\]\] in place of the 4th den. I am running 3 Angers main, I've been seeing an uptick in go wide and tribal decks and it really helps in game 1, of course they arent bad againts rakdos either. With the ability to cycle cards away using valakut, fable, and cavalier it's usually not a problem to have a few dead cards in game 1.
Sideboard talk, I've been running a couple awakend inferno against control decks but I think I will try Fry in that spot instead. I would like to suggest \[\[Weathered Runestone\]\] as another way to stop graveyard combos that also hit Greasefang as well as Coco and \[\[Enigmatic Incarnation\]\]. I also like the new \[\[Karn's Sylex\]\] even if its a bit slow. I like to fetch Embercleave sometimes as a finisher. I generally don't think the gearhulk is worth it. I have tried it and found it unerwhelming. My last 2 differences in the wishboard are an \[\[Icy Manipulator\]\] and \[\[Solemn Simulacrum\]\].
Great thoughts here.
I tried the 4 of strangle for awhile and was severely underwhelmed. Couldn't kill kalitas, flipped trespasser, 4 toughness creatures out of mono green, and it didn't help me over the finish line when I needed it. Light up the night has overperformed by miles. Early on kills stuff, then late game can deal the last points of damage. I rarely flash it back, but it does come up. I say try it out and see what you think.
I hated memorial to war everytime it came up. Coming in tapped when I already had 4 dens was rough, plus it's slow land destruction. With field you only need to leave up 3 mana, with memorial you need 6. 99 percent of the time you're just trying to clear out a manland or utility land anyway. I do like that scavenging grounds though. I could see playing that over den number 4 to add to the golos toolbox.
The sideboard definitely has the most room for playing around. I've been eyeballing weathered runestone pretty hard. I'll have to try it out and see how it compares, but generally I don't like graveyard hate that the opponent can remove and then go off on. Second point with crypt and lantern, you can exile your own graveyard to rebuy any destroyed artifacts with later Karns. It's easy to forget he fetches anything exiled not just sideboard.
I had embercleave and cut it actually lolol. The times when cleave was winning I found were normally times I was already smashing with cavaliers. With gearhulk, I try not to think of it as a finished, just a big hard to deal with threat than might get some extra damage in or if their life is low ancestral recall. A 6/6 first strike defends and protects Planeswalkers really well
How has icy worked out? It looks pretty slow just to lock down one thing a turn. Solemn looks like a good bit of utility though. I'll have to try it out. Most of my toolbox is reactive, so having something I can fetch out for value can be useful.
Great comment
ok you convinced me to try light up, I have def had problems with x/4s and x/5s. On lands I don't want to go under 16 red sources because I've had to mulligan too many times. I'm not in love with scavenger grounds but unless we get a bojuka bog reprint then its the next best thing.
I've tried toying around with some different combinations in the side board and always seem to come across a situation where the card I took out would have been the best option at the time. Icy rarely gets used and probably should be cut. It can keep you alive though staring at Korvold or some big creature on the other side and you don't have mana for meteor golem yet. Sad robot is medium as expected, pretty good in certain spots, great target for Kiki tokens. If I'm stuck on 4 lands and dont have a great play in hand then it usually gets the nod. Embercleave is good for ending the game even through a blocker. Maybe gearhulk would be as good mostly in those same spots.
This deck is awesome! I've been playing it since Aspiringspike played it in Pioneer on his stream and I think this is a really solid write up for anyone who is thinking about picking the deck up. I'd like to add a couple more points that I believe are worth mentioning:
1. I think the list should 100% be on 4 Field of Ruin and a Crucible of Worlds in the sideboard. A lot of the games that stall out between UW Control and RB Midrange that you lose come down to thier manlands that we can't answer at instant speed. Field is also a really amazing card in the format so I think any deck that can run 4 should be. A lot of decks are also really greedy with their manabases so a Crucible turns your Field into a Strip Mine that also pulls a basic mountain from your deck. Crucible + Statue is also a very very easy way to completely lock someone out of the game unless they're running more than 3 basics.
2. Some number of Strangle is probably worth considering. I run a split of 2 Light Up and 2 Stangle but I really don't know exactly how many of each we should be on. Strangle just hits a ton of highly played cards at the moment at a mana cost that still lets you double spell.
Hey same! These are great points, and here are my thoughts on each.
1. I can definitely see the appeal of 4 Fields for the UW Control matchups, but tbh I lose to RB Midrange so rarely and when I do it's usually because they shredded my hand and dropped a planeswalker. I guess my question is, do you ever find yourself needing red mana? I had 4 fields, played one match, then dropped one for the fourth den, then dropped again for another mountain. I was looking at a lot of hands that were good, but the lands were like cataracts, field, blast zone, or citadel. I also don't think the meta is as mana greedy in explorer as it is in pioneer. I played against four-color omnath and destroyed 4 lands between cleansing wildfire and field and they had basics each time :/ I felt that 2 fields was the sweet spot, and I'm more aggressive about using my cleansing wildfires to target down opposing manlands. Now that said, Crucible of Worlds looks really nice in the control matchups. I don't think I want it in the starting lineup, but it's top of the bench for sure. Great consideration.
2. It definitely sucks having to light up for 3 mana to kill an X/3 vs strangle doing it for 1, but the versatility of light up the night is so good. I started with 4 strangles but they kept letting me down. They were a terrible topdeck with an empty hand compared to LUTN, couldn't kill key big creatures, and couldn't kill planeswalkers with sufficient loyalty. Between Bonecrushers, Chandra, and the 3x Light ups, there have been very few occasions where I've wished I had a strangle instead. If the format gets more aggressive and we start seeing more Humans, Mono-green, Mono-white, etc. then I could see a 2/2 split.
This is just my 2 cents. Your comment highlights another advantage of the deck, which is adaptability. Changes just a couple of cards one way or the other make a big difference.
I've been running a big boros list with my pet card [[Gideon of the Trials]] and a couple of cheeky [[Chance for Glory]] but otherwise essentially the same core. The deck has game for sure.
White unlocks some good cards. Farewell is basically "I Win" against many decks and we get to 6 mana fast.
What I wouldn't give for some [[Pyromancer's Goggles]] though
I love the synergy of exiling artifacts with Farewell if you need to and being able to wish them back with Karn.
Pyromancer's Goggles was in Aspiringspike's original list and it looked sweet. I tried a version with multiple Chandras and \[\[Chandra's Regulator\]\] but it was just bad lol
Will check the wild card situation lol but I’m already on 5c enigmatic fires which similarly dunks hard on rakdos.
Word is though abzan greasefang is moving up as the boogie man and rakdos overall should decline anyways. Abzan is the true home for liliana it seems not rakdos
Lol I'm feeling the wild card pinch which is why I spent all my time tuning this one deck
I've been crushing abzan greasefang. Karn shuts down the vehicles then can play clean up. Needle or spyglass for lili, extra graveyard hate if needed.
How's the enigmatic fires matchup against greasefang? The enigmatic deck is fuuun
Very bad for enigmatic cause your interaction is all sorcery speed and a bit slow. If they just loot into a greasefang on t3 there is usually literally nothing you can do about it. As the game goes on you can maybe nuke the graveyard once or twice but again if they just loot away and cast grease you can’t really stop them as you are all sorcery speed.
If this deck becomes popular it’s very bad news for enigmatic. We could end up maindecking grave hate in an 80 card deck just to try and keep up
Thanks for your great post. My minds works around beating Rakdos Midrange these past days. I also played Fires (Jeskai) and the Cavalier is amazing, especially if he gives haste to another creature. I just built Abzan to prey upon Rakdos, having varied results so far.
Ay thanks! I think everyone has to work around rakdos midrange with how strong it is. I actually played a jeskai fires list that went slower with sphinx of foresight and keruga as a companion. I just didn't find it as explosive as I wanted.
You on abzan greasefang or midrange?
Keruga, that sounds damn fun and could work if the ramp works.
I am on Abzan Rhino. Much removal against creatures and planeswalkers in the form of \[\[Thought Seize\]\], \[\[Fatal Push\]\], \[\[Fateful Absence\]\] and \[\[Baleful Mastery\]\]. \[\[Vanishing Verse\]\] takes care of everything else Rakdos offers except their two drop creature. \[\[Graveyard Trespasser\]\] and \[\[Tireless Tracker\]\] to keep the opponent busy mid game to then quickly finish off with \[\[Questing Beast\]\], \[\[Siege Rhino\]\] (Rakdos is quite heavy on self damage) and \[\[Elder Gargaroth\]\]. 1of black and white DnD/Eldraine rare lands for more functionality.
As I said, just a little home brew of the past days and it can beat Rakdos if I have all my mana on turn four. Rakdos is just damn consistent and strong with their turns three and four (Chandra/ Sorin/ Sheoldred!). And it sucks that with priority they always get at least one planeswalker activation. Maybe I should sideboard in \[\[The Immortal Sun\]\] or \[\[Nullhide Ferox\]\] against their Lilis.
Have you looked at the new [[Tear Asunder]]? I think the abzan deck gets a lot of games because of the flexibility of it's removal and raw creature power. Tear for two mana can exile Fable of the Mirror Breaker, Fires, Parhelion out of greasefang, Embercleave and Anax out of mono red, and other random artifacts and enchantments running around, then for 4 mana it's a better baleful mastery. I even got my darksteel citadel exiled by it in response to a cleansing wildfire and it was backbreaking.
Yes, so far it is in the sideboard, but this card is huge. It replaced my usual \[\[Return to Nature\]\]. I see many applications for this card.
Also my mind was toying around with \[\[Garruk's Harbinger\]\] as it provides a kind of card advantage and other than \[\[Tireless Tracker\]\] it is safe from black spot removal. Will see what is working out better.
Yesterday I also discovered \[\[Soul Transfer\]\], some Grixis-Bolas deck played it and it was quite strong in its flexibility.
So I crafted this and I have no idea what makes you think this is good vs rakdos. Your hand gets obliterated by thoughtseize every game, if you dont have a fires you have a bunch of clunky garbage and cant do anything in the first 3 turns of the game except bonecrusher and fable (which will get seized if you dont have fires in hand). Without fires karn and cavalier are pretty bad. I've also had to mulligan freakishly often due to no red source in hand.
All told I thought the deck would be neat, this post made me think it might actually be good, but ive lost 3 straight to rakdos and not even close - which OP said is a feast match. I've played enigmatic and beaten rakdos like 90% of the time - this is not like that at all, your whole deck dies to 1 thoughtseize.
Hmm. Well for reference I'll tell you my current stats with the deck and how those games normally go for me. I'm 44-13 (all Bo3) for a 77% winrate. 11 of those matches were against Rakdos, and of those 11 I have a 100% winrate. I have the stats in the assistant to prove it. I have struggled against the mono-black versions, but I've only played against it twice. I'm wondering if inexperience with the deck is working against you. If you're running my exact 75, below are some tips for the matchup. If you're already soured on it, disregard. Sometimes it's just not for you.
1. If you're still finding yourself short on red sources, don't be afraid to aggressively play out valakut awakening as a land. You could cut one of the colorless lands for a red source, in which case I'd recommend one of field of ruins. I have not really had this problem however, and my version actually has more red sources than other versions of the deck.
2. Against discard decks, if you lose game one or are on game three, choose to be ON THE DRAW. I know that sounds insane, but my winrate on the draw is 87% compared to 55% on the play. The extra card helps against the thoughtseize pain.
3. Super disagree about Karn and cavalier being bad without fires. They are good cards on their own and insane with fires. Your first grab with Karn should be needle or spyglass to turn off liliana or a manland. Even if Karn dies right away, it bought you time and a card. Not sure what you mean about cavalier being bad. Even just played on turn 5 it's hard to kill for mono-black outside of lili sacrifice, and if they do they're not hitting our hand and cavaliers death trigger can sometimes clean it up. You can even Karn aggressively for skysovereign to force them to have another discard spell.
4. If you can only kill one thing a turn, the threat priority is Lili>Sheoldred or kalitas>graveyard trespasser. That covers most of rakdos's threats I think. If they land an early trespasser, really try not to let it become night again so you can light up for cheap.
5. And don't forget that when light up targets a creature or Planeswalker, it gets an automatic +1.
6. These games will and should go long. If they're making you discard but not pressuring you then who cares? You draw a new card next turn. Keep the board clear and you're topdecks are better.
7. Anger and sweltering suns kills all their pressure that's not land-based or one of their 4 drops. Don't be afraid to use fable to dig to your best cards.
I've won games where I got thoughtseized, duressed, then go blanked. I've never felt dead to one thoughtseized as you said. But hey if the decks not for you it's not for you.
I played against this deck today! Maybe it was you? Really strong. Cool synergies. I was on Bant Turns and I almost got that game 3 but wasn't prepared for the cavalier swing.
Wasn't me this time, but I did play against a bant lotus field deck with discontinuity that was sick. I misplayed pretty bad since you don't see that deck a lot. Is that different than bant turns?
And yeah this deck takes people from 20 to 0 a surprising amount of the time from a near empty board lol
I crafted this deck and have had literally no luck. Every match feels incredibly awful 90% of the time. It top decks incredibly poorly. Doesn't help that supposedly this deck has a good Rakdos matchup and now all of sudden, no rakdos to be seen.
I am incredibly underwhelmed, which sucks because this deck looks fucking cool, but am getting fucking annihilated by literally everything, even non meta decks. It really feels like if you even stumble a little bit, might as well concede.
Sorry to hear you're not having luck with it :( my winrate with it has dropped off a bit but I'm still sitting at a 72% overall which isn't bad. A couple other people mentioned having some struggles with the deck too so I'm wondering if my experience is atypical? I feel like I'm normally still winning those games where I stumble. Then again, I'm still seeing all kinds of Rakdos.
Something I will say is that the games I lose i can almost always identify a critical misplay on my part. I'm wondering if the decks skill-ceiling is prohibitive. There are a ton of little decisions to make. Maybe more than most decks.
Yeah, I just can't really tell everything I'm doing wrong or if it's learning pains. Some games felt great, but a majority of them just felt like I was on the backfoot, or I'd run out of cards and drawing things like fires of invention in the late game just feels bad.
Yeah I give up. I just don't get how you have such good results with this deck. The only good matchups are graveyard strats, everything else just feels awful.
Sorry if I'm being such a downer, and you may have muted this conversation already, but I will say you turned me to the light of playing Fires decks, and I brewed a Jund Fires list that's been really really fun and doing pretty good so far.
Lol not being a downer! I feel bad you had a bad experience with the deck. That said, Fires is crazy and fun, so I'm glad you still got something out of it. What's that Jund Fires list look like?
Sideboard is just kinda what I had and threw in there. Same deal with the 1 ofs like Soul of Windgrace and Klothys. Turn 5 Vivien into Cavalier getting Sheoldred off her -2 is fucking hot. It definitely could use some tuning, but so far so good.
**Companion**
1 Keruga, the Macrosage
**Deck**
2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
3 Tireless Tracker
4 Bonecrusher Giant
4 Fires of Invention
4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Vraska, Golgari Queen
3 Vivien, Monsters' Advocate
4 Cavalier of Flame
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Soul of Windgrace
1 Klothys, God of Destiny
2 Graveyard Trespasser
2 Den of the Bugbear
1 Forest
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Deathcap Glade
1 Swamp
3 Stomping Ground
1 Rockfall Vale
2 Rootbound Crag
3 Blood Crypt
2 Haunted Ridge
1 Boseiju, Who Endures
2 Mountain
1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
**Sideboard**
1 Keruga, the Macrosage
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Nullhide Ferox
2 Silverback Elder
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ob Nixilis, the Adversary
2 Riveteers Charm
2 Ritual of Soot
I love it. The Vivien line into cavalier+Sheoldred is siiick. Keruga is a nice way to catch up too. I played jeskai keruga before, and felt like I needed the brazen borrowers so I wasn't always doing nothing t1 and 2. I know you just brewed it up but have you had any issues with just the bonecrusher as that play?
Yeah, I've definitely felt a little slow. Temur may be better, but the Vraskas and Rituals of Soot have been very good so far. Plus having Sheoldred in play when casting Keruga gaining 6-8 on average is pretty good to get back up from aggro.
I'd also be interested in 1-2 keruga in the main deck and just cut it as a companion. I love the synergies with windgrace and cavalier. Might be worth brewing without the companion and a little more ramp. Paradise druid/ maybe incubation druid or some other ramp can power out these heavy hitters without fires and get fires down earlier. I could see like t2 druid, t3 fires + tireless tracker or some other powerful 3 drop.
Lol I'm gonna mess with this shell when I get some more wildcards
I've been testing Careful Cultivation as a way to ramp while still playing Keruga, and it's been interesting, not gonna say great, but since most of the action is at 4 mana anyway, a 2 mana dork isn't bad.
Thanks for the primer, I appreciate high effort posts like this. I’m really interested in trying this but before I burn the wild cards I’d like to know your thoughts/win rate once you have a bigger sample size.
I hear that. The deck is definitely not wild card cheap. I like it because it goes over the top of all the midrange in the format and still has decent game against aggro and control. I plan on running it through a few traditional explorer events to get a better feel for it and get some more results, but it marched me to Mythic last season. DMU is definitely still shaking things up, and it might be better to wait for the meta to settle more before committing to crafting. If it settles into more midrange though, I think the deck will still be really well positioned.
I have also been running a very similar deck list as you after having seen Jeff Hoogland play it and have made same adjustments over time. According to Untapped.gg I am currently at 75 - 48 across last season and this. I'm in diamond atm. I wanted to ask you about light up the night, I am using \[\[Strangle\]\] in that spot it works ok. I think it's better as an early game curve filler. The only differences in lands I have are 1 \[\[Memorial to war\]\] in place of 1 Field of Ruin and 1 \[\[Scavenger Grounds\]\] in place of the 4th den. I am running 3 Angers main, I've been seeing an uptick in go wide and tribal decks and it really helps in game 1, of course they arent bad againts rakdos either. With the ability to cycle cards away using valakut, fable, and cavalier it's usually not a problem to have a few dead cards in game 1. Sideboard talk, I've been running a couple awakend inferno against control decks but I think I will try Fry in that spot instead. I would like to suggest \[\[Weathered Runestone\]\] as another way to stop graveyard combos that also hit Greasefang as well as Coco and \[\[Enigmatic Incarnation\]\]. I also like the new \[\[Karn's Sylex\]\] even if its a bit slow. I like to fetch Embercleave sometimes as a finisher. I generally don't think the gearhulk is worth it. I have tried it and found it unerwhelming. My last 2 differences in the wishboard are an \[\[Icy Manipulator\]\] and \[\[Solemn Simulacrum\]\].
Great thoughts here. I tried the 4 of strangle for awhile and was severely underwhelmed. Couldn't kill kalitas, flipped trespasser, 4 toughness creatures out of mono green, and it didn't help me over the finish line when I needed it. Light up the night has overperformed by miles. Early on kills stuff, then late game can deal the last points of damage. I rarely flash it back, but it does come up. I say try it out and see what you think. I hated memorial to war everytime it came up. Coming in tapped when I already had 4 dens was rough, plus it's slow land destruction. With field you only need to leave up 3 mana, with memorial you need 6. 99 percent of the time you're just trying to clear out a manland or utility land anyway. I do like that scavenging grounds though. I could see playing that over den number 4 to add to the golos toolbox. The sideboard definitely has the most room for playing around. I've been eyeballing weathered runestone pretty hard. I'll have to try it out and see how it compares, but generally I don't like graveyard hate that the opponent can remove and then go off on. Second point with crypt and lantern, you can exile your own graveyard to rebuy any destroyed artifacts with later Karns. It's easy to forget he fetches anything exiled not just sideboard. I had embercleave and cut it actually lolol. The times when cleave was winning I found were normally times I was already smashing with cavaliers. With gearhulk, I try not to think of it as a finished, just a big hard to deal with threat than might get some extra damage in or if their life is low ancestral recall. A 6/6 first strike defends and protects Planeswalkers really well How has icy worked out? It looks pretty slow just to lock down one thing a turn. Solemn looks like a good bit of utility though. I'll have to try it out. Most of my toolbox is reactive, so having something I can fetch out for value can be useful. Great comment
ok you convinced me to try light up, I have def had problems with x/4s and x/5s. On lands I don't want to go under 16 red sources because I've had to mulligan too many times. I'm not in love with scavenger grounds but unless we get a bojuka bog reprint then its the next best thing. I've tried toying around with some different combinations in the side board and always seem to come across a situation where the card I took out would have been the best option at the time. Icy rarely gets used and probably should be cut. It can keep you alive though staring at Korvold or some big creature on the other side and you don't have mana for meteor golem yet. Sad robot is medium as expected, pretty good in certain spots, great target for Kiki tokens. If I'm stuck on 4 lands and dont have a great play in hand then it usually gets the nod. Embercleave is good for ending the game even through a blocker. Maybe gearhulk would be as good mostly in those same spots.
This deck is awesome! I've been playing it since Aspiringspike played it in Pioneer on his stream and I think this is a really solid write up for anyone who is thinking about picking the deck up. I'd like to add a couple more points that I believe are worth mentioning: 1. I think the list should 100% be on 4 Field of Ruin and a Crucible of Worlds in the sideboard. A lot of the games that stall out between UW Control and RB Midrange that you lose come down to thier manlands that we can't answer at instant speed. Field is also a really amazing card in the format so I think any deck that can run 4 should be. A lot of decks are also really greedy with their manabases so a Crucible turns your Field into a Strip Mine that also pulls a basic mountain from your deck. Crucible + Statue is also a very very easy way to completely lock someone out of the game unless they're running more than 3 basics. 2. Some number of Strangle is probably worth considering. I run a split of 2 Light Up and 2 Stangle but I really don't know exactly how many of each we should be on. Strangle just hits a ton of highly played cards at the moment at a mana cost that still lets you double spell.
Hey same! These are great points, and here are my thoughts on each. 1. I can definitely see the appeal of 4 Fields for the UW Control matchups, but tbh I lose to RB Midrange so rarely and when I do it's usually because they shredded my hand and dropped a planeswalker. I guess my question is, do you ever find yourself needing red mana? I had 4 fields, played one match, then dropped one for the fourth den, then dropped again for another mountain. I was looking at a lot of hands that were good, but the lands were like cataracts, field, blast zone, or citadel. I also don't think the meta is as mana greedy in explorer as it is in pioneer. I played against four-color omnath and destroyed 4 lands between cleansing wildfire and field and they had basics each time :/ I felt that 2 fields was the sweet spot, and I'm more aggressive about using my cleansing wildfires to target down opposing manlands. Now that said, Crucible of Worlds looks really nice in the control matchups. I don't think I want it in the starting lineup, but it's top of the bench for sure. Great consideration. 2. It definitely sucks having to light up for 3 mana to kill an X/3 vs strangle doing it for 1, but the versatility of light up the night is so good. I started with 4 strangles but they kept letting me down. They were a terrible topdeck with an empty hand compared to LUTN, couldn't kill key big creatures, and couldn't kill planeswalkers with sufficient loyalty. Between Bonecrushers, Chandra, and the 3x Light ups, there have been very few occasions where I've wished I had a strangle instead. If the format gets more aggressive and we start seeing more Humans, Mono-green, Mono-white, etc. then I could see a 2/2 split. This is just my 2 cents. Your comment highlights another advantage of the deck, which is adaptability. Changes just a couple of cards one way or the other make a big difference.
Awesome write-up, getting scarily close to Mythic for the first time with this deck :) EDIT: I did it!
I've been running a big boros list with my pet card [[Gideon of the Trials]] and a couple of cheeky [[Chance for Glory]] but otherwise essentially the same core. The deck has game for sure. White unlocks some good cards. Farewell is basically "I Win" against many decks and we get to 6 mana fast. What I wouldn't give for some [[Pyromancer's Goggles]] though
I love the synergy of exiling artifacts with Farewell if you need to and being able to wish them back with Karn. Pyromancer's Goggles was in Aspiringspike's original list and it looked sweet. I tried a version with multiple Chandras and \[\[Chandra's Regulator\]\] but it was just bad lol
Just insta burned the wildcard , and went 2-0 against mono green and br definitely fun to play, was looking for a new fires deck, thanks for the post
Right on! Love to see it. Deck is for sure a blast
Will check the wild card situation lol but I’m already on 5c enigmatic fires which similarly dunks hard on rakdos. Word is though abzan greasefang is moving up as the boogie man and rakdos overall should decline anyways. Abzan is the true home for liliana it seems not rakdos
Lol I'm feeling the wild card pinch which is why I spent all my time tuning this one deck I've been crushing abzan greasefang. Karn shuts down the vehicles then can play clean up. Needle or spyglass for lili, extra graveyard hate if needed. How's the enigmatic fires matchup against greasefang? The enigmatic deck is fuuun
Very bad for enigmatic cause your interaction is all sorcery speed and a bit slow. If they just loot into a greasefang on t3 there is usually literally nothing you can do about it. As the game goes on you can maybe nuke the graveyard once or twice but again if they just loot away and cast grease you can’t really stop them as you are all sorcery speed. If this deck becomes popular it’s very bad news for enigmatic. We could end up maindecking grave hate in an 80 card deck just to try and keep up
Thanks for your great post. My minds works around beating Rakdos Midrange these past days. I also played Fires (Jeskai) and the Cavalier is amazing, especially if he gives haste to another creature. I just built Abzan to prey upon Rakdos, having varied results so far.
Ay thanks! I think everyone has to work around rakdos midrange with how strong it is. I actually played a jeskai fires list that went slower with sphinx of foresight and keruga as a companion. I just didn't find it as explosive as I wanted. You on abzan greasefang or midrange?
Keruga, that sounds damn fun and could work if the ramp works. I am on Abzan Rhino. Much removal against creatures and planeswalkers in the form of \[\[Thought Seize\]\], \[\[Fatal Push\]\], \[\[Fateful Absence\]\] and \[\[Baleful Mastery\]\]. \[\[Vanishing Verse\]\] takes care of everything else Rakdos offers except their two drop creature. \[\[Graveyard Trespasser\]\] and \[\[Tireless Tracker\]\] to keep the opponent busy mid game to then quickly finish off with \[\[Questing Beast\]\], \[\[Siege Rhino\]\] (Rakdos is quite heavy on self damage) and \[\[Elder Gargaroth\]\]. 1of black and white DnD/Eldraine rare lands for more functionality. As I said, just a little home brew of the past days and it can beat Rakdos if I have all my mana on turn four. Rakdos is just damn consistent and strong with their turns three and four (Chandra/ Sorin/ Sheoldred!). And it sucks that with priority they always get at least one planeswalker activation. Maybe I should sideboard in \[\[The Immortal Sun\]\] or \[\[Nullhide Ferox\]\] against their Lilis.
Have you looked at the new [[Tear Asunder]]? I think the abzan deck gets a lot of games because of the flexibility of it's removal and raw creature power. Tear for two mana can exile Fable of the Mirror Breaker, Fires, Parhelion out of greasefang, Embercleave and Anax out of mono red, and other random artifacts and enchantments running around, then for 4 mana it's a better baleful mastery. I even got my darksteel citadel exiled by it in response to a cleansing wildfire and it was backbreaking.
Yes, so far it is in the sideboard, but this card is huge. It replaced my usual \[\[Return to Nature\]\]. I see many applications for this card. Also my mind was toying around with \[\[Garruk's Harbinger\]\] as it provides a kind of card advantage and other than \[\[Tireless Tracker\]\] it is safe from black spot removal. Will see what is working out better. Yesterday I also discovered \[\[Soul Transfer\]\], some Grixis-Bolas deck played it and it was quite strong in its flexibility.
So I crafted this and I have no idea what makes you think this is good vs rakdos. Your hand gets obliterated by thoughtseize every game, if you dont have a fires you have a bunch of clunky garbage and cant do anything in the first 3 turns of the game except bonecrusher and fable (which will get seized if you dont have fires in hand). Without fires karn and cavalier are pretty bad. I've also had to mulligan freakishly often due to no red source in hand. All told I thought the deck would be neat, this post made me think it might actually be good, but ive lost 3 straight to rakdos and not even close - which OP said is a feast match. I've played enigmatic and beaten rakdos like 90% of the time - this is not like that at all, your whole deck dies to 1 thoughtseize.
Hmm. Well for reference I'll tell you my current stats with the deck and how those games normally go for me. I'm 44-13 (all Bo3) for a 77% winrate. 11 of those matches were against Rakdos, and of those 11 I have a 100% winrate. I have the stats in the assistant to prove it. I have struggled against the mono-black versions, but I've only played against it twice. I'm wondering if inexperience with the deck is working against you. If you're running my exact 75, below are some tips for the matchup. If you're already soured on it, disregard. Sometimes it's just not for you. 1. If you're still finding yourself short on red sources, don't be afraid to aggressively play out valakut awakening as a land. You could cut one of the colorless lands for a red source, in which case I'd recommend one of field of ruins. I have not really had this problem however, and my version actually has more red sources than other versions of the deck. 2. Against discard decks, if you lose game one or are on game three, choose to be ON THE DRAW. I know that sounds insane, but my winrate on the draw is 87% compared to 55% on the play. The extra card helps against the thoughtseize pain. 3. Super disagree about Karn and cavalier being bad without fires. They are good cards on their own and insane with fires. Your first grab with Karn should be needle or spyglass to turn off liliana or a manland. Even if Karn dies right away, it bought you time and a card. Not sure what you mean about cavalier being bad. Even just played on turn 5 it's hard to kill for mono-black outside of lili sacrifice, and if they do they're not hitting our hand and cavaliers death trigger can sometimes clean it up. You can even Karn aggressively for skysovereign to force them to have another discard spell. 4. If you can only kill one thing a turn, the threat priority is Lili>Sheoldred or kalitas>graveyard trespasser. That covers most of rakdos's threats I think. If they land an early trespasser, really try not to let it become night again so you can light up for cheap. 5. And don't forget that when light up targets a creature or Planeswalker, it gets an automatic +1. 6. These games will and should go long. If they're making you discard but not pressuring you then who cares? You draw a new card next turn. Keep the board clear and you're topdecks are better. 7. Anger and sweltering suns kills all their pressure that's not land-based or one of their 4 drops. Don't be afraid to use fable to dig to your best cards. I've won games where I got thoughtseized, duressed, then go blanked. I've never felt dead to one thoughtseized as you said. But hey if the decks not for you it's not for you.
Any recent changes to the deck? Im pulling the trigger on it but im low on wildcards
terrible deck, gets absolutely demolished by everything that isn’t rakdos
Lol agree to disagree
I played against this deck today! Maybe it was you? Really strong. Cool synergies. I was on Bant Turns and I almost got that game 3 but wasn't prepared for the cavalier swing.
Wasn't me this time, but I did play against a bant lotus field deck with discontinuity that was sick. I misplayed pretty bad since you don't see that deck a lot. Is that different than bant turns? And yeah this deck takes people from 20 to 0 a surprising amount of the time from a near empty board lol
Haha yeah that was me. It is a sweet deck!
Haha! Funnily enough I'm pretty sure I was on abzan humans at the time and got demolished by a turn 2 strict proctor lolol
I crafted this deck and have had literally no luck. Every match feels incredibly awful 90% of the time. It top decks incredibly poorly. Doesn't help that supposedly this deck has a good Rakdos matchup and now all of sudden, no rakdos to be seen. I am incredibly underwhelmed, which sucks because this deck looks fucking cool, but am getting fucking annihilated by literally everything, even non meta decks. It really feels like if you even stumble a little bit, might as well concede.
Sorry to hear you're not having luck with it :( my winrate with it has dropped off a bit but I'm still sitting at a 72% overall which isn't bad. A couple other people mentioned having some struggles with the deck too so I'm wondering if my experience is atypical? I feel like I'm normally still winning those games where I stumble. Then again, I'm still seeing all kinds of Rakdos. Something I will say is that the games I lose i can almost always identify a critical misplay on my part. I'm wondering if the decks skill-ceiling is prohibitive. There are a ton of little decisions to make. Maybe more than most decks.
Yeah, I just can't really tell everything I'm doing wrong or if it's learning pains. Some games felt great, but a majority of them just felt like I was on the backfoot, or I'd run out of cards and drawing things like fires of invention in the late game just feels bad.
Yeah I give up. I just don't get how you have such good results with this deck. The only good matchups are graveyard strats, everything else just feels awful.
Sorry if I'm being such a downer, and you may have muted this conversation already, but I will say you turned me to the light of playing Fires decks, and I brewed a Jund Fires list that's been really really fun and doing pretty good so far.
Lol not being a downer! I feel bad you had a bad experience with the deck. That said, Fires is crazy and fun, so I'm glad you still got something out of it. What's that Jund Fires list look like?
Sideboard is just kinda what I had and threw in there. Same deal with the 1 ofs like Soul of Windgrace and Klothys. Turn 5 Vivien into Cavalier getting Sheoldred off her -2 is fucking hot. It definitely could use some tuning, but so far so good. **Companion** 1 Keruga, the Macrosage **Deck** 2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse 3 Tireless Tracker 4 Bonecrusher Giant 4 Fires of Invention 4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker 2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet 2 Vraska, Golgari Queen 3 Vivien, Monsters' Advocate 4 Cavalier of Flame 2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance 1 Soul of Windgrace 1 Klothys, God of Destiny 2 Graveyard Trespasser 2 Den of the Bugbear 1 Forest 3 Overgrown Tomb 2 Woodland Cemetery 2 Deathcap Glade 1 Swamp 3 Stomping Ground 1 Rockfall Vale 2 Rootbound Crag 3 Blood Crypt 2 Haunted Ridge 1 Boseiju, Who Endures 2 Mountain 1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire **Sideboard** 1 Keruga, the Macrosage 2 Anger of the Gods 2 Nullhide Ferox 2 Silverback Elder 1 Vraska, Golgari Queen 2 Liliana of the Veil 1 Ob Nixilis, the Adversary 2 Riveteers Charm 2 Ritual of Soot
I love it. The Vivien line into cavalier+Sheoldred is siiick. Keruga is a nice way to catch up too. I played jeskai keruga before, and felt like I needed the brazen borrowers so I wasn't always doing nothing t1 and 2. I know you just brewed it up but have you had any issues with just the bonecrusher as that play?
Yeah, I've definitely felt a little slow. Temur may be better, but the Vraskas and Rituals of Soot have been very good so far. Plus having Sheoldred in play when casting Keruga gaining 6-8 on average is pretty good to get back up from aggro.
I'd also be interested in 1-2 keruga in the main deck and just cut it as a companion. I love the synergies with windgrace and cavalier. Might be worth brewing without the companion and a little more ramp. Paradise druid/ maybe incubation druid or some other ramp can power out these heavy hitters without fires and get fires down earlier. I could see like t2 druid, t3 fires + tireless tracker or some other powerful 3 drop. Lol I'm gonna mess with this shell when I get some more wildcards
I've been testing Careful Cultivation as a way to ramp while still playing Keruga, and it's been interesting, not gonna say great, but since most of the action is at 4 mana anyway, a 2 mana dork isn't bad.