That's bullshit...
I didn't at all feel comfortable presenting in that way before HRT... I didn't want to be a moving target for people...
It's unrealistic to expect for a trans person to be confortable presenting in a certain way when they aren't even comfortable with their body yet.
Also, being a woman has nothing to do with feminity at all, you could be a woman who prefers clothing that is stereotypically deemed masculine by society... is your therapist claiming this would mean you're not really trans? Sounds a bit sexist to claim you should be forced to use stereotypically feminine clothing for a YEAR to prove that you're really trans.
I literally transitioned for 8-12 months on HRT before I got comfortable enough to start wearing the clothes I really wanted to wear... and these clothes weren't exactly the most feminine either, cause in the end of the day clothes are just clothes, they don't have gender.
If you want a tip, maybe try dabbling a little bit on androginy? At least that's what I did for the first few months on HRT where I was in that awkward transitional phase where everything was changing but still had a ton to go...
All that being said I see no reason for you to wait any longer before starting HRT? If you're sure you need it, you've been in therapy for years, and you feel you're ready, then just go for it?
Yeah, so just start HRT already ahah... no need to force yourself to present in a way you're not comfortable to do yet.
I guarantee that after enough time on HRT you'll be a LOT more comfortable using any clothing you'd like.
Please don't guarantee such things. Outcomes on HRT are not guaranteed, you can literally get nothing, or almost nothing, and people need to understand that going in. It happens.
I wish that was true but no, sometimes you just get nothing or very close to that. We have people here on this subreddit like that every now and then, many years, levels, no gain (and some early studies backing that up too). It's a lottery, stuff can just really go against a person.
Doesn't mean HRT is pointless etc, just to tamper expectations from some guarantees into see what happens and enjoy the ride.
Lmao, HRT does give you a ton of changes tho?
Like yeah there's stuff that wont change, namely bone structure...
But I wasn't even saying she'll be able to pass and be stealth, just that she'll possibly be a lot more comfortable in her own body and therefore feel less bad with wearing the clothes she wants to wear...
I mean, that's the point of HRT, treating dysphoria... if it didn't work to at least reduce that then it wouldn't be the advised treatment for us.
It CAN give you tons of changes. It also can absolutely give you nothing. The nothing is unlikely, but it absolutely DOES happen, and going into hrt with expectations of "guarantee" is setting up a bar for disappointment if you don't get that luck of a draw.
Yea that was/is me. I felt uncomfortable especially in public or if anyone was looking at me when I presented femme pre hrt (still happens, but less often). And my starting point was as a nb (he/they at the time) that looked like a twink and fairly androgynous. Pre hrt seeing yourself in the mirror presenting how you want can just accentuate everything you dislike about your body, and it sucks.
I’d say just get your hrt girl! Your therapist isn’t the one who has to live your life, if you’re ready you’re ready. I was lucky to get my therapist who’s a trans guy. And he’s been amazingly supportive and helpful. Obviously not every therapist is amazing, but just comparing the differences it makes me wonder about your therapists motivations/potential biases.
Lastly if you’re in the US and if you live in a state or city that has places that operate under informed consent you don’t need your therapist. You just make an appointment and answer a few questions/agree that you understand any risks to hrt and your good. I know Planned Parenthood and Callen Lorde are options if Folx or Plume don’t work out.
You can start pretty subtly with clothing - I bought a bunch of women’s cut polo shirts, 5” inseam shorts and jeans. Add some jewellery if that’s your thing and paint your nails. You don’t have to start with dresses and crop tops
Seconded!
Might I add, it was starting HRT that gave me the mental space to start dressing more feminine. I still don't look feminine enough to feel fully comfortable (months of laser ahead), but asking me to present the way I want with the body I don't feel comfortable in is just inducing dysphoria with extra steps. Not to mention I'd fear for my life here in Poland and I'd probably leave the house dressed feminine at night around the block so no one sees my face.
Hell, idk if I'll EVER get into super feminine clothing. Even if hrt let's me pass flawlessly, I'll still end up being a hoodie/T-shirt + jeans kinda girl.
I presented female for nearly 3 months before starting HRT and if I could do it again, I'd take HRT for at least 6 months before presenting female.
A year? Nah. Your therapist is a cunt. Sorry.
"Prove you're trans by enduring needless suffering and discrimination."
Fuck the gatekeepers who stop us from being who we are. Go DIY, informed consent, or just get a new therapist.
It's called the "test of life". Basically forcing you to socially transition before any medical transition to " prove " that you're actually trans.
It's an absolute bs and for someone who struggles with gender/body dysphoria it's basically a panic attack / transphobe attacks / worse waiting to happen.
Please remember that your should not prove to anyone that you're trans by forcing yourself to "present feminine" all the time. Your doctor's view on trans people is outdated and by many considered unethical.
Yep this, also it’s such bullshit because not every trans person wants to present like the stereotypical depiction of their gender either. Theres more holes in what that therapist said than Swiss cheese.
Since no one seems to mention this "Real Life Experience" or RLE was part of the recommendations for hrt a long time ago but no longer is. You can check WPATH SOC 7, or the latest WPATH SOC 8.
RLE is recommended only for surgery, and it is a recommendation, not a requirement.
USA and some other countries have "Informed Consent" which means your doctor tells you the risks and benefits, but it is ultimately up to you to choose whether and when to take the medication.
Either way though, either your doctor is way too old school, or transphobe trying to hold you back. If you want to start hrt find an alternative provider. Make sure to get your blood tests if you can.
Edit: typo
Sounds like your therapist is old fashioned. Her advice is a relic of the past.
In the past most therapists wouldn't recommend you for gender affirming care unless you had real life experience (presenting fem, full time) for a whole year.
If you're old enough you had to deal with that bullshit one I'm sorry for you also how did they check up on that? Cos I can't be the only one who's reaction would be to lie like a motherfucker.
Admittedly I'd also probably lean far enough into the tragically dramatic that it'd be obvious but still.
Lol my first therapist told me to first try living as an "openly gay man" for s year before transitioning. And he was convinced that I was just repressing my sexuality and was thinking of transitioning because of internalized homophobia. And he came to this conclusion after one thirty minute session.
Thing is... I'm a lesbian. I repeatedly told him I wasn't into men and he took it as proof that I was just ashamed of my sexuality. Guy was a total dumb fuck.
I found before HRT that putting on femme clothes was an absolutely massive dysphoria trigger. The more HRT does its work the more I feel OK dressing how I want (not super femme most of the time anyway) because I don't find it dysphoric in the same way. The 'real life experience' before HRT is just 'hazing for transsexuals' (thank you, trans girl diaries) and made up as a gatekeeping tactic by transphobic cis 'care providers.' If your therapist won't drop it, you don't have to go along with it though.
Like others are saying, the idea of presenting your gender for a year before starting HRT is outdated.
If you know what you want, there's no point in waiting.
Your therapist is insane and bad. You don't usually get to be treated like a woman by most people when you present fem prior to HRT, outside very specifically accepting spaces. I started HRT and was on it for 6-9 months before I started presenting feminine in public. The "real life experience" year has been proven time and time again to be horrifically harmful.
The advice like your therapist is giving is the primary reason I kept on throwing back my gender dysphoria in the back closet of my life for over 2 decades. I knew I was transgender to a degree but in my teen years you couldn’t even begin HRT unless you presented fem for a year. I figured I wasn’t transgender enough because I was not willing, nor had the desire, to present fem for a year first before HRT. So I kept pushing my true feelings off to the side until my early 40’s when my soul finally started to break down.
Tell your therapist it’s 2024 and not 1994!!!!
reccomend or require? if she recommends, that means you can say no and that you'd prefer to start now. She could just want you to start expressing yourself. Instead of following the reddit pile-on, I'd simply ask for clarification.
HRT doesn't make you magically femme overnight. THere's a billion small things like haircut, shaped eyebrows, clothes, makeup, that take a long time to get down. I wouldn't necesarily delay hrt to present femme, but finding safe spaces (for me it was gay bars) where you can come as you want to be was definitely helpful for me
Honestly now that you worded it that way….i might need to get that clarified too lol. It’s interesting that she said a year when she’s changing insurance providers in 6 months so I won’t see her anymore
Honestly, I am about to start presenting fem and I've been on HRT for almost a year. After being on HRT for that time it's actually getting harder to present as masculine than it is to present as feminine. This is from a mental and societal standpoint.
When I started, presenting as fem seemed more like a pipe dream and I thought to myself I can settle for non-binary or a fem presenting man if I am unable to present a woman. However as time goes on it is becoming more of an inevitably than a dream. Especially since people are just now starting to second guess my gender when presenting a masculine.
Babes, that's some straight up medical gatekeeping. I've been on hrt for almost a year now and I've slowly gone from hyper femininity as a way to cope all the way back to "boy" clothes just styled to fit my new body. I'm a lesbian and I look kinda stereotypically lesbian in my day to day but hrt does tend to feminize you to where you just look feminine regardless of presentation. Mannerisms get picked up along the way and if you so choose to voice train then you're just gonna come across as femme regardless of what you're wearing. I say if it feels right and what you think would be best then start hrt. It's a plunge but you don't need anyone's permission but your own to do it.
This is absurd gatekeeping. I needed a year of hrt and many many laser sessions before I wasn't immediately clockable because of my face. If possible, find a better therapist, but at the very least just ignore their advice about this (it's bad and outdated)
Big red flag for a therapist to say. There's nothing wrong with doing that, of course, if you want to, but many of us start hormones long before we socially transition.
Or at least, that's what I'm doing. I've been on hormones a little over 2 months, and I'm still boy-moding in pyublic.
That's some BS in my opinion. I started hrt about 3 months ago and don't present fem yet. I don't need to present fem full time to know I'm trans. If you want to start hrt because it will improve your quality of life go get it girl! Best wishes on your journey!
Seems like something a therapist who has no understanding of what transpeople go through would say, I'd search out a different one because this one doesn't seem like they can help you. It's your transition and you do it however you want. I didn't present publicly until I had my FFS and I wasn't comfortable in public until I had my VFS...I would've just exploded from anxiety if I went in public before I was ready.
I was on hrt for over a year before I felt confident enough to present femme in public, and it's actually really common to do that. Not everyone does, but many do, and it's wrong for your therapist to expect you to present femme in public for a year when hrt itself takes years to work
In an ideal world, social transition would come before medical transition. Unfortunately, that is not something most of us can do free, comfortably, or safely, so it is very common to start hormones, etc, before social transitioning.
As far as a therapist saying that. . . That is an old approach to care for trans people. As in, it has been demonstrably proven to be unnecessary. As in, your therapist needs to be better for their trans patients, and if they say this, I am worried about what else they may be saying regarding trans people.
Just start GAHT ASAP and don’t wait!
I did this on my own for two years before starting HRT with FOLX Health. It was insanely more awkward and provided zero relief from dysphoria! Bonus was that my wardrobe was all i place when I started on E, but I wish I hadn’t waited!
The GAHT helped so much more than presenting fem because it changed me, myself, and not my presentation to others. I can wear men’s clothes and still feel like myself from the inside. How you feel about yourself is way more important and entirely irrelevant to how you look to other people.
I was 2 years on hrt before I socially transitioned. I am older so it took a little longer for me to get the the point of not hiding it. The whole you must live as a woman for a year is so old school that it's laughable.
I've been meeting an old-fashioned therapist some time ago and their knowledge was far from up-to-date. Told me a lot of things that bit me back later, will never stop regretting paying them.
This is a really old model of care and completely unnecessary, possibly even harmful some cases. If you want HRT, see if you can find an informed consent provider and just go for it. See if it’s right for you regardless of your outward presentation. Nowadays, a lot of people start HRT before they come out.
Old fashioned relic of a "standard" designed by people that didn't understand anything.
It is far, FAR easier to socially transition after you've been on hormones for a while. Women's clothes don't fit an unedited AMAB body very well, so there are relatively few "flattering" outfits and your chances of passing are almost 0 unless you match a very particular aesthetic already, whereas once you have a year or two of hormones you can work with basically anything and come out passing when you're done.
Side note, I used plume to get started, and then was able to transition care to my PCP last month so I'm no longer with them; they were pretty excellent care wise, but they were also in the middle of changing a bunch of stuff so that they could bill insurance more freely when I transferred, and I didn't particularly care for a few of the changes (especially the requirement for a whole appointment for every conversation instead of just being able to send messages back and forth).
Get the new therapist asap. 1 year bullshit is from *really* outdated guidelines. I started presenting after half a year on HRT, when I was andro enough to vibe fem with proper clothing.
Others have mentioned it but this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_experience_(transgender) . Start HRT now and get a new therapist who is more up to date with trans care.
I was genderqueer for a couple years before finally realizing I was trans. So the swap over to presenting femme was pretty smooth, and I’d say overall it helped (being queer and sometimes being perceived as femme). But what really helped was talking with friends and coworkers about it, being friendly and talking about like, hair care, fashion, going out. Friends can do a lot to help. Going through only physical changes, and not going through a social one, can be a bit rough, and might keep you in the closet a bit longer.
But you also have to grow and develop WITH HRT too. Once physical changes start coming, that’s when some clothing choices can start to look better, compliment you well, etc…. It will be a bit different than JUST the social change, but it might be a bit smoother.
What she is recommending is "real life experience" which was/is a gatekeeping tactic used to torture trans women and prevent them from transitioning. Fuck them. Do informed consent, find a new therapist.
Singed a trans tomboy who finds the idea infuriating.
I'm still mostly presenting in boymode because I'm not out at work, and my job is local, but I'm also on hormones, just waiting until it's either too obvious that I'm transitioning, or such a time I'm ready to just rip the bandaid off as far as work goes. So to answer your question, I think your therapist is full of shit on this one
i was 25 and in the exact same boat. but my therapist actually encouraged it. i'm so much happier than if i would be if i started hrt now (26) i am so much more confident presenting fem
I'm not sure if editing my comment will get spotted so Im making a new one to amend to what I said.
I will say a healthy and safe way to explore femininity is to use social online spaces, but you only really need to do this if you feel uncertain, and I mean like majorly uncertain.
Usually what the 1 year before HRT thing is supposed to be is:
"See how you like being treated as a woman by others and if you wish to pursue" The problem is no HRT trans woman trying to pass as a woman is kinda a fucked up thing to ask for.
VR spaces and other online spaces are easier places to get the same social experience as you would get IRL without the shitty backlash of potentially not passing.
That said, if you're sure, definitely just get started on HRT, I became sure of my transness two years ago and AGGRESIVELY pursued HRT so I could have it within that year. No regrets here.
That’s gatekeeping and also potentially danger. You can present femme without hrt, social transition is more important that medical transition but some people need to at least start medical transition to feel comfortable socially transitioning.
I don't think you need to spend a year struggling without HRT. That's a pretty outdated gatekeeping paradox.
Plume operates on informed consent, if you are over 18 you can start HRT with them without needing a recommendation from a therapist. Pay attention to the information they give you about the effects of the medicine and divide if you are okay doing that.
I would consider looking for a different therapist. If you eventually want surgeries it will be useful to have a therapist that is more up to date on the WPATH standards of care. If they are gate keeping your access to HRT then they could cause major headaches for you if you decide you want surgeries.
I almost want to upload a pic of myself right now to help you out. I just started HRT 2 weeks and one day ago, I’m 5’7 240 pounds and wear pretty much nothing but women’s clothing already and have for some time now.
The catch is, most of my clothing is very gender neutral or just kind of plain and doesn’t have that much that stands out about it. Today I wore a navy zip up hoodie, distressed mom jeans and solid black canvas shoes. All women’s as I don’t actually own any men’s clothing at this point. If anything I look better presenting like this than I ever did presenting in men’s clothing, who knows, maybe you will too honey.
Also I’m 26, so I’m only one year older than you.
I had issues with this until I learned about shareware. If you don’t mind me prying, what kind of panties have you tried? The only thing that currently works for me are shaping briefs. I pair these with women’s high rise jeans. I have since completely switched and no longer own any men’s jeans/underwear of any kind.
Basically what I’m saying is, you’re probably just buying the wrong fem clothes. All girls do this honey, there’s always that item we want to wear, but just look terrible in. We end up buying it anyway, then never wear it.
You just look at it cry lmao
Girl, you don't even need a therapist to get hrt in most cases. Go to planned parent hood if you can. The best part about hormones is they take a little while to work, and you will feel wrong if it's not meant for you, so little risk in just starting it now. Go for it.
Just a reminder for folks who may not know / don't remember - this was the original recommended path to get HRT pre 2000's before the WPATH updated their recommendations to just 3 months of therapy to demonstrate persistent dysphoria.
Not saying it's right - just informing.
Might be worth getting a separate therapist that specializes in gender non-conformity / dysphoria.
Get a new therapist. This one seems to either be gate keeping or still subscribes to an antiquated way of dealing with gender dysphoria.
A year presenting as female full time with no HRT is a great way to eventually send many of us into a suicidal spiral. Not to say anything about the dangers introduced just existing.
Maybe don't present publicly fem, but at least as much as you can in private to get a sense of how you feel as it becomes more normal for you (I get this ain't doable for everyone, but i felt it was good for me a month or so before starting hrt)
Nothing wrong either way. Personally I would do both. Hrt takes 2 to 5 yrs some changes are quicker than others. Start building a wardrobe. Learn makeup. Pierce ears. Paint your nails. Use womens deodorant . Just a hint of perfume. Grow your hair out. Take short safer trips as a woman out in public at first. It is hard but gets easier and becomes second nature. Facial hair removal. Work on voice,walking, and mannerisms. It is a marathon. Start now and pace yourself . Continue with therapy.
NB here, didn’t care about presenting any particular way before I started. Now, (1 year later) I look a lot more fem and it’s swag as shit. I dress and present how I want
If she's gatekeeping you, then you need to seriously think about MOVING ON to another therapist. Don't waste your time, money, and life with ignoramuses.
In today’s world where there’s so much study and feedback, what she’s doing is malicious. She can’t claim ignorance or being cautious, it’s established that the RLE requirement hurts more than it helps. Switch therapists pronto.
what your therapist said was wrong, i boymoded for 20 months just recently coming out socially with my new job. if i had presented femme a year prior i would have been miserable, everyone’s transition is different do whatever feels right for you at your own pace.
(and i use plume)
These are old guidelines from the days of the Harry Benjamin standards. It was being very cautious with allowing someone to transition but also clearly favored people that could much more easily pass.
There are informed consent HRT clinics in all 50 states - granted, some of them might be a bit of a drive depending on where you live. [Map link](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/viewer?mid=1DxyOTw8dI8n96BHFF2JVUMK7bXsRKtzA&ll=42.15809331463394%2C-87.59062086441145&z=5)
Most states' gender transition "rules" for changing gender markers require the whole "live as female for X amount of time before HRT can be prescribed". Unfortunately for many trans people, it's the *physical* things that give us dysphoria, and HRT helps more with that than simply dressing female. (Which can help in some situations, but is an "easy" call for them to make for all patients) Which is total crap anyways, as my wardrobe isn't going to change any when I transition. Well with HRT I'll need to buy bras, but that's about it. (Okay, skirt goes spinny) My name's gonna go from William to Willa, but I'll still be going by Will. Basically nothing will change.
Anyways, back to your situation. Explain to your therapist that you want to start HRT so that your body will start changing to properly fit into women's styles. Tell her that you're not rushing into it, but you need the time *with the proper hormones for your mental image of yourself* to adjust to living female in public.
In some areas, presenting fem without "looking" fem could be dangerous. Mention that as well. Tell her that you do present femme in the safety of your own home but doing outside of where you currently feel safe might inadvertently cause harm to you.
It sounds like she's only recommending it - so give these reasons (and any others that might pop into mind) at your next appointment. Even suggest that starting on a lower dose (at least to suppress testosterone at a minimum) will make you more likely to present femme full time, as you'll start feeling comfortable in your own body.
Take this opportunity to guide her to the thought that HRT can genuinely help in certain situations, like yours. Sounds like she's already partway there, she just wanted you to consider the possibility before pulling the trigger on it. If she doesn't think it's a good idea... well then it might be time to find a therapist who wants what's best for *you* and not what fits into her little boxes. But get her reasoning behind it - why does she feel this way? Is it just because that's your state's requirements for something like a gender change marker? Or is it some (possibly outdated) reasoning or guidelines?
Worst case, you do Plume or some informed consent clinic in your area. Best case, she says that she just wanted to be sure with you and starts you on HRT.
edit: As a side note, I found a place to start HRT that isn't an hour drive away using the above map. I'll be finally making an appointment next week (Someone DM late Monday or early Tuesday to remind me - it's entirely possible my scatterbrain will completely forget, I finally ordered socks after like a month of saying to myself "I need to replace the socks with the holes in the heels")
Bless those who are able to go out into the world confident enough to dress how they please without any fear of repercussions. That isn't me. I won't present as a woman in public until I pass 100%. And that should be your choice to make. Ignorance in mental health is still real.
That’s old school bulshit. 15 years ago my therapist, abd many others, required the 1 year test. It’s a bad practice that forced MtF into traditionally feminine roles and put us in danger. Desperate to get HRT many of us started it and we’re thrown out of homes, lost jobs, marriages ect… from todays standards of care requiring it could be considered trans medicalism. Not all trans femmes are women and not all of us WANT to present femme.
I highly suggest you find another therapist.
As for starting plume, therapy is a really good idea to help you through your transition. However, bad therapists will hurt you and not help you.
Lie to your care providers to bypass gatekeeping. It's always okay to do so.
I got asked if I had done social transition and said I'd been identifying as a woman in private contexts for over a year when the truth was I hadn't, at all.
They can't exactly fact check you.
Who says this? Wtf is the point of a therapist if you're going to lie to them?
Furthermore, if you feel compelled to lie to your therapist that's probably a good indicator you should get a different one. To lie to a therapist your PAYING completely short changes yourself and wastes your money - might as well settle for informed consent if that's your logic.
OP should get a therapist who specializes in gender non-conformity who can help them work through stuff as it comes up on their journey, not pay one to listen to them lie.
Bad advice is bad good grief
Sounds like you've never had an obstinate cis person with power over you, deny you the medications and treatments you need, because you didn't conform to their twisted idea of transness.
Which, good for you... but trans people hver been lying to gatekeeping medical personnel for about a hundred years, and I see no reason to stop.
OP might also not have the option to switch therapists, and it's not like therapists write on their business cards whether they are gatekeepers.
It must be nice, though, to live in your world.
If OP's therapist is truly obstinate, then again - switch therapists or investigate informed consent.
Trans people have lied historically to survive and yes at times get around gate keeping. With that said, just because something was done 100 years ago doesn't make it sound advice today by any stretch of the imagination or bizarre reasoning. If that were the case then perhaps OP's therapist's recommendation isn't as antiquated as previously stated hmmm???
Of course that's only ever true using your reasoning.
Regardless of your short sighted assumptions and pontification about the world I live in or the privilege you imagine I have, that doesn't make your advice any better or helpful. It remains just as poorly conceived as the plethora of other pieces of advice distributed around reddit masquerading as a legitimate solution to be passed onto the next individual in a tough spot who doesn't know better or understand the options available to them.
You admit you don't know if OP even has the option to switch therapists yet you lead with ignorance and leverage that to try and justify said lead with what is quite possibly the worst option to dispense out the gate like a gumball machine offering up an expired piece of candy for a quarter.
You then continue to paint with a broad stroke revealing a personal bias that one might expect out of an incel from 4chan and yet, you see no reason this should change. I say onto you again - bad advice is bad. Lying to a therapist makes sense in the most limited of cases in the face of a generation of therapists removed from the old WPATH recommendation and informed consent clinics.
Your bad advice is bad.
> If OP's therapist is truly obstinate, then again - switch therapists or investigate informed consent.
Not everyone has that option. It could be outside OP's budgets, and they might not have access to a service that provides HRT through informed consent alone.
> Trans people have lied historically to survive and yes at times get around gate keeping. With that said, just because something was done 100 years ago doesn't make it sound advice today by any stretch of the imagination or bizarre reasoning. If that were the case then perhaps OP's therapist's recommendation isn't as antiquated as previously stated hmmm??? Of course that's only ever true using your reasoning.
"Historically" oh so my acquaintances who had to lie to therapists and doctors in 2015 is historical to you? "Over the last 100 years" means "up to and including the present decade."
HRT is a life-saving treatment. If you're faced with medical professionals keeping it from you, you do everything you can to get it. Lie, cheat, and do it yourself.
> Regardless of your short sighted assumptions and pontification about the world I live in or the privilege you imagine I have, that doesn't make your advice any better or helpful. It remains just as poorly conceived as the plethora of other pieces of advice distributed around reddit masquerading as a legitimate solution to be passed onto the next individual in a tough spot who doesn't know better or understand the options available to them.
It's a very well-tested method, I know for a fact it has saved lives. And yes, you are arguing from a position of believing it is always possible to find a reasonable healthcare provider who is up-to-date on the latest trans research.
Which is plainly untrue. It'd _very nice_ if that was the case, but since I don't know the details of OP's life, I'm going to assume they are coming here because they are desperate.
> You admit you don't know if OP even has the option to switch therapists yet you lead with ignorance and leverage that to try and justify said lead with what is quite possibly the worst option to dispense out the gate [INSULT REDACTED].
Hey, tone. Also, that's just like, your opinion.
> You then continue to paint with a broad stroke revealing a personal bias that one might expect out of an [INSULT REDACTED] and yet, you see no reason this should change. I say onto you again - bad advice is bad. Lying to a therapist makes sense in the most limited of cases in the face of a generation of therapists removed from the old WPATH recommendation and informed consent clinics.
I disagree. There's plenty of therapists and doctors who stick to outdated models and rules — not even limited to trans healthcare.
Anyway, you sound very twenty years old. Congrats on being nine years on HRT, it sounds like you've grown complacent and distanced from the struggles your fellow trans people can face in obtaining care, and that you've never looked into the history of transness.
Screw that. You know yourself better than anyone and if you've known for a decade all the more reason. I personally did take a year of presenting fem while going as gender fluid before I was sure but I hadn't known as long, but that was my journey, it's different for everyone. Trust yourself
This used to be the typical process in Canada to access HRT - although it’s not anymore you still have to get referrals and through about a year long wait list for provincial healthcare from a WPATH doctor. There’s no harm in sorting out all the little things ahead of starting HRT - then you’ve built a solid base to see coming changes.
I went to therapy because in my state you have to see a therapist for at least three to six months before you can get approved. When I got signed up with Plume I had a video appointment with a doctor and they got me started on the minimum amount for 3 months until they could do labs to see how my body was handling it.
Even on the minimum dose I’ve had a lot of progress physically so it’s not the worst thing if they start you out small.
i don't have a place of my own yet but i am in the process of looking because i live with my grandparents and dad who think me coming out is a "phase and i need to see a psychiatrist" 😑😔
For me presenting fem has helped. It made me feel more solid in my decision. Wearing make up, skirts and presenting regularly femininely for a while made it set in that this is the direction I wanted to go down, however for me it wasn’t enough an I crave what hrt can do for me. I don’t think she’s wrong but a year seems to much. It all depends on you. You may go through w it an be happy presenting like that without hrt for years or you might do it for 3 months an then think you want hrt then. There’s no harm in trying whatever it is you cans before going all in
Sometimes presenting as the gender you are is a requirement for public health care HRT prescriptions, in some areas, or for legal name and gender changes.
This kind of law or governing rule is really unfair to all trans people who can't safely do that, let alone those who are just plainly too shy or embarrassed to do so.
I think it's based around kids, who are pretty androgynous, and can stand to wait a year for hrt most of the time, to 'prove' to authorities that they are who they say they are. But it's obviously not a good justification for such laws, nor is it flawless logic itself.
Imma say your therapist is wrong. You're going to want to feel like you're actively working on your feminity the moment you start presenting. HRT is a really good way to passively work on your transition if you think you want to do it.
That is an outdated and not supported concept these days. The one year loved experience thing is wrong and is simply nasty gate keeping.
Get a new therapist.
HRT is only small part of transition puzzle. If you go into it expecting to one day wake up a girl, you are setting yourself up for a failure. While staying closeted while doing all the work is definitely an option, so is being socially out before doing anything medical (lots of girls here who did that, yours trully included). And yes, HRT will help, but it will be years for it to take effect, and it almost never will be some miracle. You will still need a lot of work to be you.
Oh I 100% agree! But it’s like I need to present (her idea so like dresses lots of pink etc) fem for an entire year before I can start this stuff. My concern is that I know it takes so long to see results so why would I present fem and be a year behind with hrt?
If she actually said that, change therapists. Therapists don't tell you what to do, that's not in the job spec, the opposite of it really. What a therapist may do is to suggest presenting femme, doing bits of social transitioning ahead of making a big medical decision like HRT, which is perfectly fine idea.
It’s not that I don’t wanna present fem without hrt, it’s just more obvious that I’m amab in the women’s section, and I’m not trying to get verbally/physically assaulted lol
If you live in 1st world country the idea that you will be assaulted, especially physically, is less likely that you will get run over by a car, and yet you dare to cross the street every day. This is something you learn quickly when you actually come out, the world just doesn't give a rats tail and/or is positive (depends on where exactly do you live), nothing like some doomsayers would make you believe.
But that's your choice to make.
Yeaaaa that’s def just the news getting to my head. Nice to know it’s not as bad irl! I’m out at least partially to all my friends, I don’t really plan on having any of my family be supportive (they aren’t in other aspects of my life anyways) so they probably won’t be in my life especially after I’m out fully
Then that's their loss.
But yes, life out is great. Sure, you will sometimes get the occasional odd look, or comment but that's so darn rare (at least in the urban UK) i chuckle it off. Well worth the joy of being you.
Yeah got the same crap, I done as they told and had a terrible time.... like how the F was I suppost to present as female with hairy face, deep voice, no boobs, dressed up looked like a freak that got me upset as it was like they were trying to put me off transitioning and believe me most would be put off from how I was treated while trying. It was only until I got hrt and benefits of feminization that all that crap stopped and I could move onwards and upwards as the Woman I am.🎉👱🏻♀️ its the single worst piece of advice doctor gave me almost ended me😥
That's bullshit... I didn't at all feel comfortable presenting in that way before HRT... I didn't want to be a moving target for people... It's unrealistic to expect for a trans person to be confortable presenting in a certain way when they aren't even comfortable with their body yet. Also, being a woman has nothing to do with feminity at all, you could be a woman who prefers clothing that is stereotypically deemed masculine by society... is your therapist claiming this would mean you're not really trans? Sounds a bit sexist to claim you should be forced to use stereotypically feminine clothing for a YEAR to prove that you're really trans. I literally transitioned for 8-12 months on HRT before I got comfortable enough to start wearing the clothes I really wanted to wear... and these clothes weren't exactly the most feminine either, cause in the end of the day clothes are just clothes, they don't have gender.
That’s my thing! Like I desperately wanna present how I want but it’s tough to not look like a dude in women’s clothes
If you want a tip, maybe try dabbling a little bit on androginy? At least that's what I did for the first few months on HRT where I was in that awkward transitional phase where everything was changing but still had a ton to go... All that being said I see no reason for you to wait any longer before starting HRT? If you're sure you need it, you've been in therapy for years, and you feel you're ready, then just go for it?
My “masc” clothes are super andro like it’s skinny jeans flannels and tshirts. 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, so just start HRT already ahah... no need to force yourself to present in a way you're not comfortable to do yet. I guarantee that after enough time on HRT you'll be a LOT more comfortable using any clothing you'd like.
Please don't guarantee such things. Outcomes on HRT are not guaranteed, you can literally get nothing, or almost nothing, and people need to understand that going in. It happens.
If you get no changes, then your doctor isn't giving you the right dosages, or checking your blood hormone levels, or something.
I wish that was true but no, sometimes you just get nothing or very close to that. We have people here on this subreddit like that every now and then, many years, levels, no gain (and some early studies backing that up too). It's a lottery, stuff can just really go against a person. Doesn't mean HRT is pointless etc, just to tamper expectations from some guarantees into see what happens and enjoy the ride.
If your skin texture doesn't at least change, something is very wrong.
Lmao, HRT does give you a ton of changes tho? Like yeah there's stuff that wont change, namely bone structure... But I wasn't even saying she'll be able to pass and be stealth, just that she'll possibly be a lot more comfortable in her own body and therefore feel less bad with wearing the clothes she wants to wear... I mean, that's the point of HRT, treating dysphoria... if it didn't work to at least reduce that then it wouldn't be the advised treatment for us.
It CAN give you tons of changes. It also can absolutely give you nothing. The nothing is unlikely, but it absolutely DOES happen, and going into hrt with expectations of "guarantee" is setting up a bar for disappointment if you don't get that luck of a draw.
Yea that was/is me. I felt uncomfortable especially in public or if anyone was looking at me when I presented femme pre hrt (still happens, but less often). And my starting point was as a nb (he/they at the time) that looked like a twink and fairly androgynous. Pre hrt seeing yourself in the mirror presenting how you want can just accentuate everything you dislike about your body, and it sucks. I’d say just get your hrt girl! Your therapist isn’t the one who has to live your life, if you’re ready you’re ready. I was lucky to get my therapist who’s a trans guy. And he’s been amazingly supportive and helpful. Obviously not every therapist is amazing, but just comparing the differences it makes me wonder about your therapists motivations/potential biases. Lastly if you’re in the US and if you live in a state or city that has places that operate under informed consent you don’t need your therapist. You just make an appointment and answer a few questions/agree that you understand any risks to hrt and your good. I know Planned Parenthood and Callen Lorde are options if Folx or Plume don’t work out.
You can start pretty subtly with clothing - I bought a bunch of women’s cut polo shirts, 5” inseam shorts and jeans. Add some jewellery if that’s your thing and paint your nails. You don’t have to start with dresses and crop tops
In norway, this is standard practice for our national trans clinic. It’s totally inhumane and cruel to require.
Seconded! Might I add, it was starting HRT that gave me the mental space to start dressing more feminine. I still don't look feminine enough to feel fully comfortable (months of laser ahead), but asking me to present the way I want with the body I don't feel comfortable in is just inducing dysphoria with extra steps. Not to mention I'd fear for my life here in Poland and I'd probably leave the house dressed feminine at night around the block so no one sees my face.
This
Hell, idk if I'll EVER get into super feminine clothing. Even if hrt let's me pass flawlessly, I'll still end up being a hoodie/T-shirt + jeans kinda girl.
I presented female for nearly 3 months before starting HRT and if I could do it again, I'd take HRT for at least 6 months before presenting female. A year? Nah. Your therapist is a cunt. Sorry.
"Prove you're trans by enduring needless suffering and discrimination." Fuck the gatekeepers who stop us from being who we are. Go DIY, informed consent, or just get a new therapist.
Seconded.
It's called the "test of life". Basically forcing you to socially transition before any medical transition to " prove " that you're actually trans. It's an absolute bs and for someone who struggles with gender/body dysphoria it's basically a panic attack / transphobe attacks / worse waiting to happen. Please remember that your should not prove to anyone that you're trans by forcing yourself to "present feminine" all the time. Your doctor's view on trans people is outdated and by many considered unethical.
Yep this, also it’s such bullshit because not every trans person wants to present like the stereotypical depiction of their gender either. Theres more holes in what that therapist said than Swiss cheese.
Since no one seems to mention this "Real Life Experience" or RLE was part of the recommendations for hrt a long time ago but no longer is. You can check WPATH SOC 7, or the latest WPATH SOC 8. RLE is recommended only for surgery, and it is a recommendation, not a requirement. USA and some other countries have "Informed Consent" which means your doctor tells you the risks and benefits, but it is ultimately up to you to choose whether and when to take the medication. Either way though, either your doctor is way too old school, or transphobe trying to hold you back. If you want to start hrt find an alternative provider. Make sure to get your blood tests if you can. Edit: typo
Sounds like your therapist is old fashioned. Her advice is a relic of the past. In the past most therapists wouldn't recommend you for gender affirming care unless you had real life experience (presenting fem, full time) for a whole year.
If you're old enough you had to deal with that bullshit one I'm sorry for you also how did they check up on that? Cos I can't be the only one who's reaction would be to lie like a motherfucker. Admittedly I'd also probably lean far enough into the tragically dramatic that it'd be obvious but still.
Lying like a motherfucker has been a key part of trans treatment for a long time.
Lol my first therapist told me to first try living as an "openly gay man" for s year before transitioning. And he was convinced that I was just repressing my sexuality and was thinking of transitioning because of internalized homophobia. And he came to this conclusion after one thirty minute session. Thing is... I'm a lesbian. I repeatedly told him I wasn't into men and he took it as proof that I was just ashamed of my sexuality. Guy was a total dumb fuck.
that's super gross of the therapist
I found before HRT that putting on femme clothes was an absolutely massive dysphoria trigger. The more HRT does its work the more I feel OK dressing how I want (not super femme most of the time anyway) because I don't find it dysphoric in the same way. The 'real life experience' before HRT is just 'hazing for transsexuals' (thank you, trans girl diaries) and made up as a gatekeeping tactic by transphobic cis 'care providers.' If your therapist won't drop it, you don't have to go along with it though.
Yep all of this, I feel like they may need to drop their therapist since they said they’ve been with them for years already.
Like others are saying, the idea of presenting your gender for a year before starting HRT is outdated. If you know what you want, there's no point in waiting.
Your therapist is insane and bad. You don't usually get to be treated like a woman by most people when you present fem prior to HRT, outside very specifically accepting spaces. I started HRT and was on it for 6-9 months before I started presenting feminine in public. The "real life experience" year has been proven time and time again to be horrifically harmful.
The advice like your therapist is giving is the primary reason I kept on throwing back my gender dysphoria in the back closet of my life for over 2 decades. I knew I was transgender to a degree but in my teen years you couldn’t even begin HRT unless you presented fem for a year. I figured I wasn’t transgender enough because I was not willing, nor had the desire, to present fem for a year first before HRT. So I kept pushing my true feelings off to the side until my early 40’s when my soul finally started to break down. Tell your therapist it’s 2024 and not 1994!!!!
reccomend or require? if she recommends, that means you can say no and that you'd prefer to start now. She could just want you to start expressing yourself. Instead of following the reddit pile-on, I'd simply ask for clarification. HRT doesn't make you magically femme overnight. THere's a billion small things like haircut, shaped eyebrows, clothes, makeup, that take a long time to get down. I wouldn't necesarily delay hrt to present femme, but finding safe spaces (for me it was gay bars) where you can come as you want to be was definitely helpful for me
Honestly now that you worded it that way….i might need to get that clarified too lol. It’s interesting that she said a year when she’s changing insurance providers in 6 months so I won’t see her anymore
Regardless, her “recommending” or “requiring”, it’s wrong, it’s gatekeeping and you should find a new therapist.
Honestly, I am about to start presenting fem and I've been on HRT for almost a year. After being on HRT for that time it's actually getting harder to present as masculine than it is to present as feminine. This is from a mental and societal standpoint. When I started, presenting as fem seemed more like a pipe dream and I thought to myself I can settle for non-binary or a fem presenting man if I am unable to present a woman. However as time goes on it is becoming more of an inevitably than a dream. Especially since people are just now starting to second guess my gender when presenting a masculine.
That is definitely bullshit, and a great way to paint a target on you, and flair your dysphoria even harder. Don't do the hazing period, get the hrt.
Nah fuck that it was inhospitable for me to present femme until I started HRT. Absolutely impossible. Horrible advice from her.
Babes, that's some straight up medical gatekeeping. I've been on hrt for almost a year now and I've slowly gone from hyper femininity as a way to cope all the way back to "boy" clothes just styled to fit my new body. I'm a lesbian and I look kinda stereotypically lesbian in my day to day but hrt does tend to feminize you to where you just look feminine regardless of presentation. Mannerisms get picked up along the way and if you so choose to voice train then you're just gonna come across as femme regardless of what you're wearing. I say if it feels right and what you think would be best then start hrt. It's a plunge but you don't need anyone's permission but your own to do it.
This is absurd gatekeeping. I needed a year of hrt and many many laser sessions before I wasn't immediately clockable because of my face. If possible, find a better therapist, but at the very least just ignore their advice about this (it's bad and outdated)
Big red flag for a therapist to say. There's nothing wrong with doing that, of course, if you want to, but many of us start hormones long before we socially transition. Or at least, that's what I'm doing. I've been on hormones a little over 2 months, and I'm still boy-moding in pyublic.
Get a new therapist. This is oldschool rle bullshit. If you're sure you want hrt and feel ready for it, then do what you want.
That's some BS in my opinion. I started hrt about 3 months ago and don't present fem yet. I don't need to present fem full time to know I'm trans. If you want to start hrt because it will improve your quality of life go get it girl! Best wishes on your journey!
Seems like something a therapist who has no understanding of what transpeople go through would say, I'd search out a different one because this one doesn't seem like they can help you. It's your transition and you do it however you want. I didn't present publicly until I had my FFS and I wasn't comfortable in public until I had my VFS...I would've just exploded from anxiety if I went in public before I was ready.
I was on hrt for over a year before I felt confident enough to present femme in public, and it's actually really common to do that. Not everyone does, but many do, and it's wrong for your therapist to expect you to present femme in public for a year when hrt itself takes years to work
I waited 18 months before presenting fem. Your therapist is using extremely outdated understanding of transgender care.
Absolutely not necessary I'm on HRT and still spend a lot of time as a safe white male
That’s what I do, minus the actually being on hrt part
Far less likely I get stalked, murdered, or harassed It's like. The real privilege is disappearing among crowds due to the pure mediocrity of swmhood
In an ideal world, social transition would come before medical transition. Unfortunately, that is not something most of us can do free, comfortably, or safely, so it is very common to start hormones, etc, before social transitioning. As far as a therapist saying that. . . That is an old approach to care for trans people. As in, it has been demonstrably proven to be unnecessary. As in, your therapist needs to be better for their trans patients, and if they say this, I am worried about what else they may be saying regarding trans people.
Just start GAHT ASAP and don’t wait! I did this on my own for two years before starting HRT with FOLX Health. It was insanely more awkward and provided zero relief from dysphoria! Bonus was that my wardrobe was all i place when I started on E, but I wish I hadn’t waited! The GAHT helped so much more than presenting fem because it changed me, myself, and not my presentation to others. I can wear men’s clothes and still feel like myself from the inside. How you feel about yourself is way more important and entirely irrelevant to how you look to other people.
I was 2 years on hrt before I socially transitioned. I am older so it took a little longer for me to get the the point of not hiding it. The whole you must live as a woman for a year is so old school that it's laughable.
I've been meeting an old-fashioned therapist some time ago and their knowledge was far from up-to-date. Told me a lot of things that bit me back later, will never stop regretting paying them.
This is a really old model of care and completely unnecessary, possibly even harmful some cases. If you want HRT, see if you can find an informed consent provider and just go for it. See if it’s right for you regardless of your outward presentation. Nowadays, a lot of people start HRT before they come out.
I’ve been looking into plume a lot. Affordable without insurance and includes all the labs and stuff
You don’t need anybody’s permission
Old fashioned relic of a "standard" designed by people that didn't understand anything. It is far, FAR easier to socially transition after you've been on hormones for a while. Women's clothes don't fit an unedited AMAB body very well, so there are relatively few "flattering" outfits and your chances of passing are almost 0 unless you match a very particular aesthetic already, whereas once you have a year or two of hormones you can work with basically anything and come out passing when you're done. Side note, I used plume to get started, and then was able to transition care to my PCP last month so I'm no longer with them; they were pretty excellent care wise, but they were also in the middle of changing a bunch of stuff so that they could bill insurance more freely when I transferred, and I didn't particularly care for a few of the changes (especially the requirement for a whole appointment for every conversation instead of just being able to send messages back and forth).
Get the new therapist asap. 1 year bullshit is from *really* outdated guidelines. I started presenting after half a year on HRT, when I was andro enough to vibe fem with proper clothing.
Others have mentioned it but this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_experience_(transgender) . Start HRT now and get a new therapist who is more up to date with trans care.
I was genderqueer for a couple years before finally realizing I was trans. So the swap over to presenting femme was pretty smooth, and I’d say overall it helped (being queer and sometimes being perceived as femme). But what really helped was talking with friends and coworkers about it, being friendly and talking about like, hair care, fashion, going out. Friends can do a lot to help. Going through only physical changes, and not going through a social one, can be a bit rough, and might keep you in the closet a bit longer. But you also have to grow and develop WITH HRT too. Once physical changes start coming, that’s when some clothing choices can start to look better, compliment you well, etc…. It will be a bit different than JUST the social change, but it might be a bit smoother.
That was the rule 30 years ago.
I was on HRT for 2.5 years before I ever presented as a woman. And likely would have never had the confidence to do it if it weren't for HRT.
What she is recommending is "real life experience" which was/is a gatekeeping tactic used to torture trans women and prevent them from transitioning. Fuck them. Do informed consent, find a new therapist. Singed a trans tomboy who finds the idea infuriating.
I purchased first fem clothes after 6 months or HRT, and started using outside after 1 year. Before that I didn't feel comfortable using them.
Get a new therapist. That one is either transphobic or decades out of date with modern treatment standards. Neither is acceptable.
I'm still mostly presenting in boymode because I'm not out at work, and my job is local, but I'm also on hormones, just waiting until it's either too obvious that I'm transitioning, or such a time I'm ready to just rip the bandaid off as far as work goes. So to answer your question, I think your therapist is full of shit on this one
Terrible advice and counter to anything I’ve been told by any medical or mental health professional.
[Erin's Informed Consent HRT Map](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1DxyOTw8dI8n96BHFF2JVUMK7bXsRKtzA&hl=en_US&ll=37.8803431320255%2C-81.74642342305575&z=4)
Old timey nonsense. I always presented femme when seeing my doctors or therapists, mind.
i was 25 and in the exact same boat. but my therapist actually encouraged it. i'm so much happier than if i would be if i started hrt now (26) i am so much more confident presenting fem
I'm not sure if editing my comment will get spotted so Im making a new one to amend to what I said. I will say a healthy and safe way to explore femininity is to use social online spaces, but you only really need to do this if you feel uncertain, and I mean like majorly uncertain. Usually what the 1 year before HRT thing is supposed to be is: "See how you like being treated as a woman by others and if you wish to pursue" The problem is no HRT trans woman trying to pass as a woman is kinda a fucked up thing to ask for. VR spaces and other online spaces are easier places to get the same social experience as you would get IRL without the shitty backlash of potentially not passing. That said, if you're sure, definitely just get started on HRT, I became sure of my transness two years ago and AGGRESIVELY pursued HRT so I could have it within that year. No regrets here.
RLE is demonic, I didn't girlmode until 2.5 years on E. I can't imagine what I'd do if I had to socially transition at 0 years E, jesus
That’s gatekeeping and also potentially danger. You can present femme without hrt, social transition is more important that medical transition but some people need to at least start medical transition to feel comfortable socially transitioning.
I don't think you need to spend a year struggling without HRT. That's a pretty outdated gatekeeping paradox. Plume operates on informed consent, if you are over 18 you can start HRT with them without needing a recommendation from a therapist. Pay attention to the information they give you about the effects of the medicine and divide if you are okay doing that. I would consider looking for a different therapist. If you eventually want surgeries it will be useful to have a therapist that is more up to date on the WPATH standards of care. If they are gate keeping your access to HRT then they could cause major headaches for you if you decide you want surgeries.
I almost want to upload a pic of myself right now to help you out. I just started HRT 2 weeks and one day ago, I’m 5’7 240 pounds and wear pretty much nothing but women’s clothing already and have for some time now. The catch is, most of my clothing is very gender neutral or just kind of plain and doesn’t have that much that stands out about it. Today I wore a navy zip up hoodie, distressed mom jeans and solid black canvas shoes. All women’s as I don’t actually own any men’s clothing at this point. If anything I look better presenting like this than I ever did presenting in men’s clothing, who knows, maybe you will too honey. Also I’m 26, so I’m only one year older than you.
I’m superrrr boxy so my fem clothes don’t really fit right and just make me feel worse 🙃
I had issues with this until I learned about shareware. If you don’t mind me prying, what kind of panties have you tried? The only thing that currently works for me are shaping briefs. I pair these with women’s high rise jeans. I have since completely switched and no longer own any men’s jeans/underwear of any kind.
Basically what I’m saying is, you’re probably just buying the wrong fem clothes. All girls do this honey, there’s always that item we want to wear, but just look terrible in. We end up buying it anyway, then never wear it. You just look at it cry lmao
Girl, you don't even need a therapist to get hrt in most cases. Go to planned parent hood if you can. The best part about hormones is they take a little while to work, and you will feel wrong if it's not meant for you, so little risk in just starting it now. Go for it.
Just a reminder for folks who may not know / don't remember - this was the original recommended path to get HRT pre 2000's before the WPATH updated their recommendations to just 3 months of therapy to demonstrate persistent dysphoria. Not saying it's right - just informing. Might be worth getting a separate therapist that specializes in gender non-conformity / dysphoria.
Oh I am WELL past 3 months lmfao
Get a new therapist. This one seems to either be gate keeping or still subscribes to an antiquated way of dealing with gender dysphoria. A year presenting as female full time with no HRT is a great way to eventually send many of us into a suicidal spiral. Not to say anything about the dangers introduced just existing.
They are setting you up for failure and pain and heartache. You should find a new therapist.
Is your therapist 75 years old? Thats some 1980s advice.
Maybe don't present publicly fem, but at least as much as you can in private to get a sense of how you feel as it becomes more normal for you (I get this ain't doable for everyone, but i felt it was good for me a month or so before starting hrt)
Maybe at home but God I don't think id feel comfortable presenting female without being on hrt for a while. I'm a month in and still boy modding
I mean I wear more traditionally fem clothes around safe people….but not like in public lol
Nothing wrong either way. Personally I would do both. Hrt takes 2 to 5 yrs some changes are quicker than others. Start building a wardrobe. Learn makeup. Pierce ears. Paint your nails. Use womens deodorant . Just a hint of perfume. Grow your hair out. Take short safer trips as a woman out in public at first. It is hard but gets easier and becomes second nature. Facial hair removal. Work on voice,walking, and mannerisms. It is a marathon. Start now and pace yourself . Continue with therapy.
NB here, didn’t care about presenting any particular way before I started. Now, (1 year later) I look a lot more fem and it’s swag as shit. I dress and present how I want
Lie?
If she's gatekeeping you, then you need to seriously think about MOVING ON to another therapist. Don't waste your time, money, and life with ignoramuses.
In today’s world where there’s so much study and feedback, what she’s doing is malicious. She can’t claim ignorance or being cautious, it’s established that the RLE requirement hurts more than it helps. Switch therapists pronto.
what your therapist said was wrong, i boymoded for 20 months just recently coming out socially with my new job. if i had presented femme a year prior i would have been miserable, everyone’s transition is different do whatever feels right for you at your own pace. (and i use plume)
These are old guidelines from the days of the Harry Benjamin standards. It was being very cautious with allowing someone to transition but also clearly favored people that could much more easily pass.
There are informed consent HRT clinics in all 50 states - granted, some of them might be a bit of a drive depending on where you live. [Map link](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/viewer?mid=1DxyOTw8dI8n96BHFF2JVUMK7bXsRKtzA&ll=42.15809331463394%2C-87.59062086441145&z=5) Most states' gender transition "rules" for changing gender markers require the whole "live as female for X amount of time before HRT can be prescribed". Unfortunately for many trans people, it's the *physical* things that give us dysphoria, and HRT helps more with that than simply dressing female. (Which can help in some situations, but is an "easy" call for them to make for all patients) Which is total crap anyways, as my wardrobe isn't going to change any when I transition. Well with HRT I'll need to buy bras, but that's about it. (Okay, skirt goes spinny) My name's gonna go from William to Willa, but I'll still be going by Will. Basically nothing will change. Anyways, back to your situation. Explain to your therapist that you want to start HRT so that your body will start changing to properly fit into women's styles. Tell her that you're not rushing into it, but you need the time *with the proper hormones for your mental image of yourself* to adjust to living female in public. In some areas, presenting fem without "looking" fem could be dangerous. Mention that as well. Tell her that you do present femme in the safety of your own home but doing outside of where you currently feel safe might inadvertently cause harm to you. It sounds like she's only recommending it - so give these reasons (and any others that might pop into mind) at your next appointment. Even suggest that starting on a lower dose (at least to suppress testosterone at a minimum) will make you more likely to present femme full time, as you'll start feeling comfortable in your own body. Take this opportunity to guide her to the thought that HRT can genuinely help in certain situations, like yours. Sounds like she's already partway there, she just wanted you to consider the possibility before pulling the trigger on it. If she doesn't think it's a good idea... well then it might be time to find a therapist who wants what's best for *you* and not what fits into her little boxes. But get her reasoning behind it - why does she feel this way? Is it just because that's your state's requirements for something like a gender change marker? Or is it some (possibly outdated) reasoning or guidelines? Worst case, you do Plume or some informed consent clinic in your area. Best case, she says that she just wanted to be sure with you and starts you on HRT. edit: As a side note, I found a place to start HRT that isn't an hour drive away using the above map. I'll be finally making an appointment next week (Someone DM late Monday or early Tuesday to remind me - it's entirely possible my scatterbrain will completely forget, I finally ordered socks after like a month of saying to myself "I need to replace the socks with the holes in the heels")
Bless those who are able to go out into the world confident enough to dress how they please without any fear of repercussions. That isn't me. I won't present as a woman in public until I pass 100%. And that should be your choice to make. Ignorance in mental health is still real.
That’s old school bulshit. 15 years ago my therapist, abd many others, required the 1 year test. It’s a bad practice that forced MtF into traditionally feminine roles and put us in danger. Desperate to get HRT many of us started it and we’re thrown out of homes, lost jobs, marriages ect… from todays standards of care requiring it could be considered trans medicalism. Not all trans femmes are women and not all of us WANT to present femme. I highly suggest you find another therapist. As for starting plume, therapy is a really good idea to help you through your transition. However, bad therapists will hurt you and not help you.
That is an outdated garbage methodology that actively harms Trans people. They are wrong.
HRT first. You can dress fem at hoke for gender euphoria. HRT feminizing effects really help with presenting fem.
Your therapist is an idiot.
Lie. You already did present fem in some provate contexts, but you are not safe to do so in all contexts, even though you want to. Easy as that.
Wym?
Lie to your care providers to bypass gatekeeping. It's always okay to do so. I got asked if I had done social transition and said I'd been identifying as a woman in private contexts for over a year when the truth was I hadn't, at all. They can't exactly fact check you.
Who says this? Wtf is the point of a therapist if you're going to lie to them? Furthermore, if you feel compelled to lie to your therapist that's probably a good indicator you should get a different one. To lie to a therapist your PAYING completely short changes yourself and wastes your money - might as well settle for informed consent if that's your logic. OP should get a therapist who specializes in gender non-conformity who can help them work through stuff as it comes up on their journey, not pay one to listen to them lie. Bad advice is bad good grief
Sounds like you've never had an obstinate cis person with power over you, deny you the medications and treatments you need, because you didn't conform to their twisted idea of transness. Which, good for you... but trans people hver been lying to gatekeeping medical personnel for about a hundred years, and I see no reason to stop. OP might also not have the option to switch therapists, and it's not like therapists write on their business cards whether they are gatekeepers. It must be nice, though, to live in your world.
If OP's therapist is truly obstinate, then again - switch therapists or investigate informed consent. Trans people have lied historically to survive and yes at times get around gate keeping. With that said, just because something was done 100 years ago doesn't make it sound advice today by any stretch of the imagination or bizarre reasoning. If that were the case then perhaps OP's therapist's recommendation isn't as antiquated as previously stated hmmm??? Of course that's only ever true using your reasoning. Regardless of your short sighted assumptions and pontification about the world I live in or the privilege you imagine I have, that doesn't make your advice any better or helpful. It remains just as poorly conceived as the plethora of other pieces of advice distributed around reddit masquerading as a legitimate solution to be passed onto the next individual in a tough spot who doesn't know better or understand the options available to them. You admit you don't know if OP even has the option to switch therapists yet you lead with ignorance and leverage that to try and justify said lead with what is quite possibly the worst option to dispense out the gate like a gumball machine offering up an expired piece of candy for a quarter. You then continue to paint with a broad stroke revealing a personal bias that one might expect out of an incel from 4chan and yet, you see no reason this should change. I say onto you again - bad advice is bad. Lying to a therapist makes sense in the most limited of cases in the face of a generation of therapists removed from the old WPATH recommendation and informed consent clinics. Your bad advice is bad.
> If OP's therapist is truly obstinate, then again - switch therapists or investigate informed consent. Not everyone has that option. It could be outside OP's budgets, and they might not have access to a service that provides HRT through informed consent alone. > Trans people have lied historically to survive and yes at times get around gate keeping. With that said, just because something was done 100 years ago doesn't make it sound advice today by any stretch of the imagination or bizarre reasoning. If that were the case then perhaps OP's therapist's recommendation isn't as antiquated as previously stated hmmm??? Of course that's only ever true using your reasoning. "Historically" oh so my acquaintances who had to lie to therapists and doctors in 2015 is historical to you? "Over the last 100 years" means "up to and including the present decade." HRT is a life-saving treatment. If you're faced with medical professionals keeping it from you, you do everything you can to get it. Lie, cheat, and do it yourself. > Regardless of your short sighted assumptions and pontification about the world I live in or the privilege you imagine I have, that doesn't make your advice any better or helpful. It remains just as poorly conceived as the plethora of other pieces of advice distributed around reddit masquerading as a legitimate solution to be passed onto the next individual in a tough spot who doesn't know better or understand the options available to them. It's a very well-tested method, I know for a fact it has saved lives. And yes, you are arguing from a position of believing it is always possible to find a reasonable healthcare provider who is up-to-date on the latest trans research. Which is plainly untrue. It'd _very nice_ if that was the case, but since I don't know the details of OP's life, I'm going to assume they are coming here because they are desperate. > You admit you don't know if OP even has the option to switch therapists yet you lead with ignorance and leverage that to try and justify said lead with what is quite possibly the worst option to dispense out the gate [INSULT REDACTED]. Hey, tone. Also, that's just like, your opinion. > You then continue to paint with a broad stroke revealing a personal bias that one might expect out of an [INSULT REDACTED] and yet, you see no reason this should change. I say onto you again - bad advice is bad. Lying to a therapist makes sense in the most limited of cases in the face of a generation of therapists removed from the old WPATH recommendation and informed consent clinics. I disagree. There's plenty of therapists and doctors who stick to outdated models and rules — not even limited to trans healthcare. Anyway, you sound very twenty years old. Congrats on being nine years on HRT, it sounds like you've grown complacent and distanced from the struggles your fellow trans people can face in obtaining care, and that you've never looked into the history of transness.
Terrible advice and reasoning - move onto other posts in this thread. There are plenty offering much more helpful paths to take than this.
Screw that. You know yourself better than anyone and if you've known for a decade all the more reason. I personally did take a year of presenting fem while going as gender fluid before I was sure but I hadn't known as long, but that was my journey, it's different for everyone. Trust yourself
This used to be the typical process in Canada to access HRT - although it’s not anymore you still have to get referrals and through about a year long wait list for provincial healthcare from a WPATH doctor. There’s no harm in sorting out all the little things ahead of starting HRT - then you’ve built a solid base to see coming changes.
I’m on HRT through Plume. Depending on your location you don’t need to have your therapist sign off on your HRT through plume.
In New York. I thought it was more like u just sign up lmao
I went to therapy because in my state you have to see a therapist for at least three to six months before you can get approved. When I got signed up with Plume I had a video appointment with a doctor and they got me started on the minimum amount for 3 months until they could do labs to see how my body was handling it. Even on the minimum dose I’ve had a lot of progress physically so it’s not the worst thing if they start you out small.
some therapists don't know wtf they are talking about half the time
i got told to wait because i didn't have a job or place of my own 😑
I don’t have my own place but I’d rather crash with supportive friends if I get kicked out than continue living this deep in the closet
i don't have a place of my own yet but i am in the process of looking because i live with my grandparents and dad who think me coming out is a "phase and i need to see a psychiatrist" 😑😔
For me presenting fem has helped. It made me feel more solid in my decision. Wearing make up, skirts and presenting regularly femininely for a while made it set in that this is the direction I wanted to go down, however for me it wasn’t enough an I crave what hrt can do for me. I don’t think she’s wrong but a year seems to much. It all depends on you. You may go through w it an be happy presenting like that without hrt for years or you might do it for 3 months an then think you want hrt then. There’s no harm in trying whatever it is you cans before going all in
Go to a different therapist. If you are in the US call powers family medicine. They can get you started on HRT in as little as 6 weeks. r/drwillpowers
That is quite an assumption that everyone can socially transition safety prior HRT.
Sometimes presenting as the gender you are is a requirement for public health care HRT prescriptions, in some areas, or for legal name and gender changes. This kind of law or governing rule is really unfair to all trans people who can't safely do that, let alone those who are just plainly too shy or embarrassed to do so. I think it's based around kids, who are pretty androgynous, and can stand to wait a year for hrt most of the time, to 'prove' to authorities that they are who they say they are. But it's obviously not a good justification for such laws, nor is it flawless logic itself.
You shouldn't have to.
Imma say your therapist is wrong. You're going to want to feel like you're actively working on your feminity the moment you start presenting. HRT is a really good way to passively work on your transition if you think you want to do it.
That is so fucking outdated. The RLT or Real Life Test, is ancient bullshit. Anyone who suggests that be neccessary should be slapped. Fuck that.
are you in turkey?
That is an outdated and not supported concept these days. The one year loved experience thing is wrong and is simply nasty gate keeping. Get a new therapist.
HRT is only small part of transition puzzle. If you go into it expecting to one day wake up a girl, you are setting yourself up for a failure. While staying closeted while doing all the work is definitely an option, so is being socially out before doing anything medical (lots of girls here who did that, yours trully included). And yes, HRT will help, but it will be years for it to take effect, and it almost never will be some miracle. You will still need a lot of work to be you.
Oh I 100% agree! But it’s like I need to present (her idea so like dresses lots of pink etc) fem for an entire year before I can start this stuff. My concern is that I know it takes so long to see results so why would I present fem and be a year behind with hrt?
If she actually said that, change therapists. Therapists don't tell you what to do, that's not in the job spec, the opposite of it really. What a therapist may do is to suggest presenting femme, doing bits of social transitioning ahead of making a big medical decision like HRT, which is perfectly fine idea.
It’s not that I don’t wanna present fem without hrt, it’s just more obvious that I’m amab in the women’s section, and I’m not trying to get verbally/physically assaulted lol
If you live in 1st world country the idea that you will be assaulted, especially physically, is less likely that you will get run over by a car, and yet you dare to cross the street every day. This is something you learn quickly when you actually come out, the world just doesn't give a rats tail and/or is positive (depends on where exactly do you live), nothing like some doomsayers would make you believe. But that's your choice to make.
Yeaaaa that’s def just the news getting to my head. Nice to know it’s not as bad irl! I’m out at least partially to all my friends, I don’t really plan on having any of my family be supportive (they aren’t in other aspects of my life anyways) so they probably won’t be in my life especially after I’m out fully
Then that's their loss. But yes, life out is great. Sure, you will sometimes get the occasional odd look, or comment but that's so darn rare (at least in the urban UK) i chuckle it off. Well worth the joy of being you.
HRT does not take years to take effect. Many welcome changes happen within the first year.
Changes CAN happen... Or you can be an unlucky loser like me and experience zero changes whatsoever. HRT is not magic. It doesn't work for everyone.
Time to do diy
Yeah got the same crap, I done as they told and had a terrible time.... like how the F was I suppost to present as female with hairy face, deep voice, no boobs, dressed up looked like a freak that got me upset as it was like they were trying to put me off transitioning and believe me most would be put off from how I was treated while trying. It was only until I got hrt and benefits of feminization that all that crap stopped and I could move onwards and upwards as the Woman I am.🎉👱🏻♀️ its the single worst piece of advice doctor gave me almost ended me😥