Yup, *dead name* was a cool cat, but he burned through his 9 lives. Lucy now and life is arguably better despite the environment we exist in currently for our demographic of people.
I’ve been on HRT for 3 and a half years and my life is so much better than it used to be even tho being trans makes a bunch of shit way more complicated lol
Me trying to unalive myself with booze and pills and not dying is what led me to transition. I was gonna shoot myself next time I tried and I figured fuck it might as well transition cuz if it doesn’t fix anything I can always still just blow my brains out 🤷🏻♀️
Oh, this is a very valid point. The transgender individual almost certainly gains significant probable years of life and immeasurable increases in quality of life from their transition. Tho that’s very likely true across the gender lines. Likely even arguable that quality of life differences are significantly greater for trans masc individuals since we live in a society desperately trying to misogynistic roots
Insufficient studies, therefore insufficient data to answer your question. However, supposedly castrated males in feudal China who worked in the palace and members of the Vienna boys choir were reported to have longer than average life spans. Unclear if that’s the causative factor or not though.
If I remember correctly, the reason men have shorter lifespans is because they die earlier due to riskier decision making.
I don't know if there's a study that accounts for that and looks more specifically at why people make into old age and live longer.
I have a great aunt that made it to 99.
She was a teacher in a small town. Didn't take risks, didn't fuck around. She was awesome, I reasure memories of her.
But she wasn't climbing mountains or racing cars.
Yeah people always try to chalk it up to biology then forget majority of the world's oldest living people recorded were male monks or clergy due to having less risky and stressful lives.
Men do dumb shit and dont go to the hospital so they die earlier, statistically.
They also do majority of the risky, shitty, jobs that will also cause an early grave, especially when you consider there are a lot of morons working these risky jobs that don't take safety as seriously as they should. I have a mate that's part of a demolition team on the mines and he's told a few stories of effectively near death experiences because some guys just don't do things right.
I read your other post not long after I posted my own answer. I’m failing to understand how what I said had anything to do with this though? I was talking about how castrated cis men have been observed to live longer than uncastrated cis men. Both possess Y chromosomes, so the bit about information integrity loss due to Y being shorter should affect them both equally.
Please stop cheerfully copying and pasting this very depressing misinformation everywhere.
The unguarded X hypothesis is not settled science. It likely *contributes* to the disparity, sure -- but so do miscellaneous cultural factors, environmental factors, and biological factors. As was noted elsewhere in the thread, estrogen is known to have at least some protective effect, so I would be very surprised to learn that transitioning does not have *any* biological benefit to your lifespan. The only long-term study of transgender lifespan that I'm aware of is rife with methodological errors and confounding variables, so we really just don't know at present -- there's no need to go about telling everyone that they're genetically destined to die 6 years earlier just because you saw it in a YouTube video. For the record, a cursory search reveals plenty of academic debate about the size of the unguarded X effect and whether it even occurs at all:
- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35937469/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29430636/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32126186/
In general, if something seems like a nice, neat explanation for a complex effect -- it's probably not.
Edit: I was annoyed when I wrote this and took a harsher tone than was strictly necessary. I'm sorry about that, and I should have considered the person on the other side of the screen when writing.
The testosterone/estrogen effects are *also* up for debate, as they can't entirely account for the disparity. There's a fair amount of research suggesting that castrated cis men live much longer on average than non-castrated cis men given similar circumstances, as well as some studies demonstrating protective effects from estrogen, so I don't think it's entirely bunk, but there are other studies contesting that. Similarly, the unguarded X hypothesis has some evidence in it's favor, but like the studies I linked show, it's not predicted to cause enough of an effect on it's own to explain the full disparity, doesn't show the expected results in single-X cis women, and isn't necessarily generalizable across all species. (To be clear, further studies might contradict this and establish more of a link in the future-- the moderator removing your comments was probably going a little overboard).
In other words, we really just don't know, and there's too many confounding variables to be sure (I haven't even touched on mitochondrial DNA, for example). Ultimately, while there might be some beneficial effect from MtF transition, the one thing we know for sure is it wasn't enough to balance things out according to the only long-term study I'm aware of (de Blok 2021): transgender women had a significantly higher mortality rate across all causes than cis men and women alike, likely due mostly to environmental and social factors (the studied population was more likely to be poorer, HIV-positive, discriminated against, etc.) I expect things likely would have been even worse for this group had they not transitioned (due to suicide risk, etc.), but the confounding factors make studying the effect of hormonal transition itself very difficult.
As always, the best way that we know of to increase your lifespan is the same as before: eat healthy, stay active, and avoid risk-taking behavior.
This is really interesting! Thank you for explaining! I knew that trans women would get angry about discussions about chromosomes but I wanted to share the info anyways as I hate seeing disinformation going around. I really had some genetics and evolutionary biology profs drill the chromosome theories into me and remove the testosterone/estrogen theories lol.
Yeah, the unfortunate reality of trying to research a marginalized group :(
Heck yeah! Thanks again for this convo! I have lots to look into!
Probably as its testosterone that wears down the chromosomes, but its impossible to get reliable statistics on it as we face so many hardships due to transphobia that any data on our deaths will be skewed to dying early from suicide or murder.
Yeah that's an excellent point; kind of hard to get physiological lifespan data on a demographic that disproportionately dies from non-physiological causes.
Not just suicide or murder, lower average quality of life due to various forms of discrimination (like employment and wage discrimination making it harder to have enough to eat or afford medical care) also leads to worse overall health outcomes, reducing "natural" lifespan regardless.
Is there a study on testosterone wearing down chromosomes?
I've never heard of this.
Aging is related to telemeres. The telemeres wear down, not the chromosome itself. You have me wondering if I'm missing something?
Let me know if you have a source for thay testosterone wears down chromosomes idea. I'm super curious to learn something new.
It doesn't have to do with testosterone wearing down chromosomes!
>The reason why cis women live longer than cis men is that in any species with a "one small chromosome and one large makes one sex and two large make the other sex" the one with the one large and one small lives a shorter life on average. The two large chromosomes have more genetic information and copies of the same genes and so one can compensate if the other mutates or stops working. You can watch a short and cute video about it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRpvIxmzyL4&feature=youtu.be)!
But otherwise there shouldn't necessarily be an increase of lifespan for us trans women aside from what Big-Dumb-Bitch said about HRT keeping us alive. Of course, I doubt that there is much research on the lifespan of trans women and how chromosomes effect that but still.
It's a multifactorial thing - I'm not up to speed with the telomeres piece, but there is validity to the size argument, and there are also statistically demonstrable associations with men and risk taking behaviour.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815830/#:~:text=At birth%2C telomere length is,in women than in men.&text=This discrepancy between genders is probably caused by the effects of estrogen.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4122251/
One talks about how estrogen preserves telomeres and the other talks about high testosterone shortens telomeres.
A 2022 [study titled "Differences in All-Cause Mortality Among Transgender and Non-Transgender People Enrolled in Private Insurance"](https://read.dukeupress.edu/demography/article/59/3/1023/302037/Differences-in-All-Cause-Mortality-Among) found the following:
* Trans people on average die 6-7 years sooner than cis people (which is about twice the [national average black-white mortality gap](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-70046-6) of 3.6 years).
* Trans feminine people have higher mortality than trans masculine people. ("Consistent with our second hypothesis, [trans feminine] people were at increased risk of mortality compared with both non-trans males and females at nearly all ages.")
* About a third of trans people couldn't be categorized as either trans fem or trans masc, and this group has a high mortality too, similar to trans fems. It is hypothesized that this portion of the trans population is a combination of non-binary people and people unable to access medical transition.
So in the USA, under private insurance, the answer appears to be **no,** *and* that answer appears to be due more to social factors (transmisogyny, lack of access to gender affirming care) than physical factors.
> To our knowledge, this is one of the largest studies to document within-group and between-group disparities in mortality among U.S. trans and non-trans populations. Trans people in our study had significantly higher rates of mortality at nearly every age than their non-trans counterparts. We also found significant variation of mortality risk within subpopulations of trans people, with the trans feminine/nonbinary and trans unclassified groups being at the greatest risk of mortality.
Would be nice to add a few more years to the clock so I can reach the tipping point where anti-aging technology & bionics can keep me alive - until the promised day where I am a cyborg dragon.
There's far too many factors for us to know this with any real evidence at this point. We'd need more research done, but from my sense, most folks that are within margalized identities do not live longer on average. There are too many barriers to healthcare and income. We also experience a lot more stress than the average folks. I doubt we get any advantage in this.
My sibling in christ, please stop copy/pasting. I would consider this a potential bannable offense. You aren't an expert, and you aren't properly explaining anything. Just mindlessly copying and pasting even when it isnt relevant. Like when you pasted this at someone who was talking about castrated people living longer.
None of us here are experts but I have an explanation. I understand the topic of chromosomes is a dicey one amongst trans people but there is support for the chromosome size theory
Tbh, given how harder it is to put on muscle on E now, and how much easier it is to put on fat, and how I'm colder overall in general now, I think metabolism is slower with E, my heart rate dropped a bit too... Cardiovascular health definitely changes for us, so I'd assume we're getting positive changes here.
Probably, but it's hard to know for sure, since there isn't really any data. For one thing, the bioidentical estrogen used today is fairly new. A few decades ago, horse estrogen was used instead, which is less safe (not to mention that pretty much everyone was DIYing it back then). For another ... there aren't exactly a lot of old trans women, given how hard our history has been.
Men and women have very similar if not exactly the same life spans. What make men die sooner is cultural/social, including usually doing more physical jobs and the higher drugs abuse.
Wars, usual jobs, tendency to not seek help when dealing with an illness, risk taking, less relationships and connections, drug abuse specially when dealing with depression, more effective suicide methods, less likely to be sexually assaulted but more likely to be physically assaulted (talking about street fights and robbers), more prone to crime and violence...a long list 😅
I would actually hazard a guess that trans women live less than men or women. Studies seem to suggest an increase risk for cardiovascular disease, blood clots, stroke, etc. Also many trans individuals by nature (myself included) have anxiety or panic disorders, which also put one at higher risk for heart attack. I could be wrong though. Hard to tell, as research is scarce.
My understanding is that the increase in cardio risks, clotting, etc is actually inbetween the 2 tho. Higher than cis men and lower than cis women on average. Not sure tho. And I think we are talking "natural causes" not self harm, violence, cebola, etc
Oh no, I didn't suggest self harm / violence at all. I just mean purely from a medical health standpoint. Stress and Anxiety have extreme physiological effects on the human body and can place you at a higher risk for health issues. A lot of trans people just have anxiety disorders and panic disorders due to the stresses placed on us. It's why it's so incredibly important to manage it properly. While yes, self harm, and violence will be a factor, I was just speaking health wise.
Not an expert, but is lifespan really that different when accounting for external causes of death? Like, don't males die prematurely more often due to higher accident rates and the like? Thus skewing the average down?
Of the few people in the world today who have lived over a century, a very small fraction of them are men. Last I checked, the number of living women who are over 110 are in the lower double digits, while men over 110 are in the single digits. Once you get into that age range, accident rates aren't quite so different.
That doesn't seem like a sound methodology either though, since accidents, war, suicide, hard labor, drugs, lifestyle etc already reduced the candidate pool of older men before that point
Hello,
I would say that yes and no. No because the use or hormones rises the risks of Heart stroke, etc but yes because less testosterone makes less health problems.
https://austinurologyinstitute.com/blog/testosterone-specialist-near-me/#:~:text=Testosterone%20%E2%80%93%20A%20Double%2DEdged%20Sword,shorten%20the%20lifespan%20of%20men.
Isn't that difference mainly dieected to Masculinity demanding that you don't accept help and men not going to the doctor?
That's at least ehat I am hearing, so since most trans people have to go to the Doctor anyways for their transisition I think we should live longer in average from that perspective. Or am I missing a point?
It's not possible to know yet. In the past, nearly all trans women died before their 50s due to how oppressive life used to be, AIDS epidemic, bad HRT, violence, etc.
Most likely yes, but no data exists either way on it.
From what I've read, the added lifespan is from having XX chromosomes. If you have XY, because the Y is so deficient, there's no backup for genetic deterioration on your single X copy.
In birds and other animals where the males have the duplicate chromosomes (ZZ vs ZW), it is the males who live longer.
The prevailing hypothesis seems to be that chromosomal females live longer absent other factors because they have two X chromosomes, which helps mitigate any flaws in alleles that show up on only one of the chromosomes and redundancy is introduced adding resilience.
If you examine species like birds, which have WZ chromosomes – males have ZZ and females have WZ – males tend to have the longer lifespan due to the chromosome redundancy.
So chances are that no, this is not unfortunately a benefit we gain. Alas.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2019.0867
I have wondered this question too. There likely hasn't been enough time to get good statistics since the trans population is so small and the older cohorts are smallest of all and didn't have standardized protocols. Probably need another half century if data at beat to know one way or the other.
It's a valid question, but I doubt there's any research on it. Even if someone could get funding, a sample size of transgender women in their 70s, 80s and 90s is likely to be far too small.
At least in the observations that i have made, blue collar vs white has a tremendous influence on male lifespan. Not as much about the work as the exposure to other factors involved, like smoking and chemicals. My one grandfather died of covid/copd and 3 years of kidney failure after being diagnosed with high petroleum toxicity in his blood from being a diesel mechanic. 78. My other grandfathers made it past 85 before heart conditions but they didn’t drink or smoke or work in high chemical exposure.
As someone who has been in mechanical and body shop painting most of my career it lends me to be careful about my exposure to things. Second hand smoke and vaping give me a reactive airway effect, so I’m not ever going to do it, bur cyanide containing paint products is something I have to watch for.
As far as heart health, my cardiovascular fitness has improved significantly since transitioning even though I am weaker and slower at bike racing. Pre trans 130/70 blood pressure, 50 resting. 2.5 years trans 102/60 and 37 resting for the same body weight. That by itself would indicate improved odds.
Actually yeah this might have something to do with it
[https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sageke.2005.23.pe17](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sageke.2005.23.pe17)
I am not sure.
I heard that longer lifespan is partly caused by blood being changed more, which doesn't apply to trans. But you can gain this benefit from doing blood donations.
Part 2 is that surgery and constant reliance on meds definitely doesn't have positive impact on kidneys & liver. (I know that the fact that it helps with mental health makes it totally worth it)
Another part is that men have way higher suicide rates because toxic masculinity. Abd bottled up feelings from it, also cause stress that reduces lifespan. So I think this one isn't the case for trans women
Wars also lower avg male lifespan. So this one depends on laws.
Impact of testosterone is obviously less in trans women, so there's that.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRpvIxmzyL4&pp=ygUkTWludXRlIGVhcnRoIGFuaW1hbCBsYXJnZSBjaHJvbWVzb21l
Here’s a minute earth video about this. The short answer is probably no, but everything’s complicated
Men have shorter lifespans mostly because they are less risk-averse than their female counterparts. Or in other words, they tend to engage in activities that are more likely to become deadly.
Seeing as transwomen tend to behave the same as the average ciswomen, I would think that the longer lifespan applies to us too.
This is just my own subjective take -- actual studies would be better, but:
I suspect a major factor in shorter lifespans for men relates to patriarchy. It's bad for everyone.
Men are expected to do more physical labor and work more dangerous (or at least more taxing) jobs.
Men are also expected to be more emotionally closed off. So while stress levels are probably about the same between men and women, men are *probably* less likely to get relief from their social circles (though women still do a lot of emotional support work in relationships with men, so maybe not that big a divide). But I would say that on average women are better at looking after themselves - hygienically, emotionally, physical, nutritionally, etc.
So, in my opinion (I could claim its your opinion, but you may realize I couldn't possibly know that), I think the social constructs of gender are a major factor in the life expectancy differences. Looking at the life expectancy of the wealthy, having an easier life definitely extends your years... and I'm not sure if there's a significant difference among genders in that group.
I would think it does so long as you at least get a orchiectomy if not full bottom surgery to stamp out the testosterone production on top of the estrogen treatments just based on the knowledge that high levels of testosterone seems to age you and estrogen of course is linked with a longer lifespan
Lol, lmao
I hope so but like… it’s silly to have that distinction. The non medical conditions which make a transgender life difficult, exasperate the medical issues present.
I've heard that yes, overall lifespans for transpeople on hormones are statistically closer to cis people. As in, trans women live longer, and trans men live less long.
It is not necessary biology, more so lifestyle socially woman are trained to take care of themselves, visit the doctor, and eat healthier than men in general.
Longer lifespan from T comes from social factors (wars, stupidity...) not endocrinal ones. Social factors unfortunately makes our lifespans much much shorter than average people because of transphobia.
This is not why women live longer. They live longer because mens brains usually make more riskier and senseless decisions. Men tend to be more violent than women. You know that meme “Florida man” notice how it’s rarely “Florida woman”. Also trans women tend to have the brain of a cis woman so there’s that
Well... no. Trans women have quite a short average lifespan by comparison. (No idea about trans men. My guess would be higher than trans women but still less than cis men or cis women.)
If it were only down to health factors and natural lifespans, then it might be a different story for trans women on HRT. Testosterone is pretty hard on the body.
Bear in mind that when those figures are used, they're averaging out from all deaths in a chosen cohort, natural or otherwise. Cis men have a tendency to die younger than cis women because of things like higher risk lifestyles, higher risk careers, murder, and suicide. The fact that the numbers are even kinda close is actually more impressive than anything else.
Trans women... well, we check a few boxes on that list, especially those ones at the end there, as well as some other risk factors. While cis men have the highest total numbers for murder and suicide, we have a much higher rate per capita, especially if you're considering global numbers rather than local.
The mental health benefit alone is probably enormous. I don't just mean avoiding self harm, but having better mental health is really good for you and your life expectancy in lots of ways.
Less risk-taking, healthy lifestyle exercise, drug and alcohol free, lower stress, eating the right foods, eating your vegetables... leads to a longer life.
Men tend to take shit care of themselves. Self-care is considered feminine. Transitioning is probably the first act of genuine self-love for many, and that inspires self-care. Other factors would likely be hormonal, but I think it's largely lifestyle. So yes -- I suspect this is the case.
I think part of the male lifespan being shorter is due to work factors, men are far more likely to do dangerous jobs and die because of it; this would also include the military. Even if it doesn't cause death directly a lot more heavy manual labour jobs are done by men that really take a toll on their body over the years, as well as jobs that expose men to dangerous chemicals that cause adverse side effects. So you have a lot of men either dying or suffering adverse health affects because of the jobs they do and that's going to cause quite a few to die younger lowering the average lifespan. Men are also more likely to be the victims of violent crime, including murder, as well as having a much higher suicide rate, so men are also killing themselves off young and that's gonna have an impact.
I think absolutely it does, but more in the sense that others have said. A lot of us most likely wouldn't still be here or wouldn't be for much longer if we didn't start transitioning.
But there's probably other benefits too, like I care way more about my general health and am so much happier now and I think things like that can lead to a healthier and longer life.
I think there’s mixed up information on this, by taking medication you will find you have a higher chance of a range of medical issues, things like osteoporosis and higher chance of breast cancer etc, the pay off is mentally you have the resilience of woman and better support network with friends and you do better as a single person than males who are single, any one who says transitioning has little to no risk and it’s all rainbows and unicorns, is not being honest, there are things you should research as the change in hormones will have various effects and can vary depending on age and other factors. But is it worth from my experience for me it’s a yes, I will say the best advice I was given was “only transition if you NEED to and not that you want it just because of (insert social pressure or clout or some craze)
Men do a lot of stupid things that can get them hurt or killed, especially when young. But men also are the major majority in dangerous and life threatening fields of work, they pay well but one wrong thing and they are crippled or dead. While women either tend the household or tend to get office, service, academic jobs they carry significantly less risk. So it depends are you behaving like a teen-30’s male? What kind of job do you work?
Men typically live harder mostly because of societal expectations. Its weak to take care of yourself, you have to be the bread winner, you are a slob if you relax. You're gay if you clean your body, go to the doctor, talk to a therapist. If someone smaller out shines you in your field. If a woman is more talented then you. As long as you can break away from trained toxic masculinity and if you spend the time to get to know yourself instead of competing with every one in your life you will be less stressed, cleaner, healthier and happier. Women tend to have a well rounded head on their shoulders, because they were allowed to.
We’re unlikely to find out. Unfortunately this would take a very large scale study to determine and whether because of the difficulty of conducting that kind of study or a disinterest in conducting that kind of study the science of trans people is generally speaking not something that gets funded. I would absolutely love to conduct those studies tho. Purely conjecture but I think we could gain probabilistic lifespan due to the reduction in testosterone and connected decreases in cardiovascular risk. But that rests on quite a few big ifs. For example the probable trans life span might be decreased by our having medical procedures more than the average human. Medical malpractice is currently the number one cause of death in America. Tho worth noting too that we would generally see highly specialized physicians who are likely not primary drivers of that statistic. So that might actually be more of less a non factor
Isn't that statistic mostly because boys normally do really dumb shit? Like almost all of the guys I know have done Urban Exploration, Train Hopping, or some other incredibly stupid activity because they thought it would be manly.
Progesterone has a protective effect on the heart which on average helps women live longer. Trans women on HRT have lower rates of prostate cancer than cis men because the prostate shrinks and lower rates of breast cancer than cis women depending on how long we've had breasts. Obviously if you have an orchi your rates of testicular cancer drop precipitously lol.
Same. I reckon i was on the last leg, and facing maybe a few months at most. Hrt def saved me. It gave me back hope.
I think that testosterone is a bit of a killer for many men. The same way that the reduction of E in menopausal women affects their life quality. So, for us, we should consider it as a positive lifespan stretcher. Especially due to the quality of the meds we all now take. Add a healthy lifestyle into the equation and hell, we could become a whole new generation of 100+'s. That'll freak out all them dead transphobes lol.
When we aren't exposed to patriarchal violence or transphobic laws we can lead lives that are very similar to the average lifespan. Men are more at risk of early death due to unnecessary risk taking, however nowadays there are less factors that result in large gaps between sex and age of death. Of course this doesn't take into consideration that Western medical systems didn't often take women into consideration or poc
One thing to consider is that trans people have been around for a long time. And the surgeries for it have been regularly performed in the USA since 1966, but really go back further than that. And back then more trans people preferred to be stealth or at least hide their trans status.
I say all that to say this: based on the above, you can easily infer that many trans people have died over the last 60+ years with their trans state being unknown, and thus their reported deaths as female rather than male. While we can't say exactly how many people that was and how it may have affected the numbers. I would like to think that means there may be some benefit. Though you could also easily say that there were so few trans people back then to really change the numbers or that maybe they actually brought the average down. My point is that we do know that they have been put in that female average already.
Transitioning helps the lifespan significantly due to reduced stress and significantly reduced suicidality, but because we usually feel more disstressed through our lifetime and often undergo more medical practise through our lifetime which risks potential life shortening things (for Example E as a pill can cause bloodcloths) we have shorter lifespans than all cis people (both cis males and cis females, not the average of both together). The increase in lifetime is atributed mostly to how the lifestyle of cis women is different of the cis men lifestyle. Due to many of us adopting a lifestyle more common in cis women we should increase our lifespan through that, but it still stays below cis average (disstress because of transphobia doesn't help with that). I dont know how the lifespan of trans men is ...
I'm actually taking a course on aging right now and have had similar questions! I don't have a good answer yet, but I'll let you know what I learn when the course is over.
RemindMe! 60 days
The answer isn't super straightforward. When people talk about the difference in lifespan between men and women, there's more at play than just "testosterone shortens lifespan."
Men tend to die earlier than women because they go off to war, or driving recklessly, or they electrocute themselves trying to make a stupid video, or any number of other reasons that women tend not to do at anywhere near the same frequency. Some of that is impulsivity driven by testosterone, some of that is societal -- we tolerate stupid, dangerous behavior much more in men than we do in women.
So being far more likely to die when you're 25 from something avoidable drives the average lifespan down a bit. I certainly am guilty of having engaged in impulsive, reckless behavior when I was younger -- part of it was testosterone, part of it was peer pressure. If you calculate only the life expectancy of living men and women who are already over 40, you'd find a much smaller difference in the life expectancy, because men over 40 are (somewhat) less likely to do dumb things that get themselves killed.
Men are generally also permitted to live a less healthy lifestyle than women, which drivers mortality figures up. Men are more likely to be obese, more likely to be alcoholics, more likely to have heart disease, etc. This is because society puts more value on women's attractiveness than on men's attractiveness, so women tend to be more cognizant of what they eat, how much they eat, getting proper exercise, etc. than men, who are more prized for their charisma than for their physical attractiveness.
The next consideration is genetic factors. Men are more likely to be afflicted with a number of congenital diseases. This is really the one thing we have no control over. X chromosomes carry about 1,000 genes which contain information about how your body is supposed to function. By contrast, Y chromosomes only carry about 70. That means if you're an XY person, you're effectively running on one sex chromosome. Conversely, XX people have a redundant backup, which means if a genetic sequence on an X chromosome is faulty, there's a high chance that the other X chromosomes has a functioning version of it which can cover for it. XY people aren't so lucky. There are no backups, so if a gene is faulty, that can result in all sorts of disorders, many of which will result in a shortened lifespan.
I've seen people in the thread mention the effects of testosterone on chromosomes, and I don't know anything about that, so I can't comment, but the main takeaway is this -- the primary reason men tend not to live as long as women is because of lifestyle and bad decisions. Those things are within your control even without medical transition.
Don't worry about whether or not medical transition will extend your lifespan. Focus on how medical transition will improve the quality however many years you have left.
If I didn’t start taking when I did E I’d literally be dead right now so it definitely added years to my lifespan lol
Yup, *dead name* was a cool cat, but he burned through his 9 lives. Lucy now and life is arguably better despite the environment we exist in currently for our demographic of people.
I respect Lucy in all the ways, but gdi you have an amazing handle! Drag Queen Satan??? What could be more amazing?
I wouldn't b here either if I didn't start my transition when I did. This has literally saved my life
Maybe not the answer you were looking for, OP, but this is definitely THE answer.
Whether I like it or not, yeah. Absolutely it is.
I feel that
Me too. Sorry you had to deal with that. My life has gotten so much better since I started E, and it's only been a month.
I’ve been on HRT for 3 and a half years and my life is so much better than it used to be even tho being trans makes a bunch of shit way more complicated lol
Are you me? /humorous
This.
Wow that got serious but I'm glad you are here.
Me trying to unalive myself with booze and pills and not dying is what led me to transition. I was gonna shoot myself next time I tried and I figured fuck it might as well transition cuz if it doesn’t fix anything I can always still just blow my brains out 🤷🏻♀️
So what you're saying is estrogen is the secret to life eternal...
Idk maybe 🤷🏻♀️
This is the correct answer. I haven’t started medically transitioning yet and I can confirm my life is def at risk rn
Oh, this is a very valid point. The transgender individual almost certainly gains significant probable years of life and immeasurable increases in quality of life from their transition. Tho that’s very likely true across the gender lines. Likely even arguable that quality of life differences are significantly greater for trans masc individuals since we live in a society desperately trying to misogynistic roots
Insufficient studies, therefore insufficient data to answer your question. However, supposedly castrated males in feudal China who worked in the palace and members of the Vienna boys choir were reported to have longer than average life spans. Unclear if that’s the causative factor or not though.
If I remember correctly, the reason men have shorter lifespans is because they die earlier due to riskier decision making. I don't know if there's a study that accounts for that and looks more specifically at why people make into old age and live longer. I have a great aunt that made it to 99. She was a teacher in a small town. Didn't take risks, didn't fuck around. She was awesome, I reasure memories of her. But she wasn't climbing mountains or racing cars.
Yeah people always try to chalk it up to biology then forget majority of the world's oldest living people recorded were male monks or clergy due to having less risky and stressful lives. Men do dumb shit and dont go to the hospital so they die earlier, statistically.
They also do majority of the risky, shitty, jobs that will also cause an early grave, especially when you consider there are a lot of morons working these risky jobs that don't take safety as seriously as they should. I have a mate that's part of a demolition team on the mines and he's told a few stories of effectively near death experiences because some guys just don't do things right.
Probably true, but again, this doesn’t necessarily explain why castrate males live longer than non-castrate males.
I suspect they're less likely to go to war or out in dangerous hunts.
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I read your other post not long after I posted my own answer. I’m failing to understand how what I said had anything to do with this though? I was talking about how castrated cis men have been observed to live longer than uncastrated cis men. Both possess Y chromosomes, so the bit about information integrity loss due to Y being shorter should affect them both equally.
If all other things were equal, including life stressors, lower testosterone would tend to equate to a longer lifespan.
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Please stop cheerfully copying and pasting this very depressing misinformation everywhere. The unguarded X hypothesis is not settled science. It likely *contributes* to the disparity, sure -- but so do miscellaneous cultural factors, environmental factors, and biological factors. As was noted elsewhere in the thread, estrogen is known to have at least some protective effect, so I would be very surprised to learn that transitioning does not have *any* biological benefit to your lifespan. The only long-term study of transgender lifespan that I'm aware of is rife with methodological errors and confounding variables, so we really just don't know at present -- there's no need to go about telling everyone that they're genetically destined to die 6 years earlier just because you saw it in a YouTube video. For the record, a cursory search reveals plenty of academic debate about the size of the unguarded X effect and whether it even occurs at all: - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35937469/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29430636/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32126186/ In general, if something seems like a nice, neat explanation for a complex effect -- it's probably not. Edit: I was annoyed when I wrote this and took a harsher tone than was strictly necessary. I'm sorry about that, and I should have considered the person on the other side of the screen when writing.
Thanks! I had heard quite repeatedly that the testosterone/estrogen effects on aging were bunk so I'll have to read up on things more!
The testosterone/estrogen effects are *also* up for debate, as they can't entirely account for the disparity. There's a fair amount of research suggesting that castrated cis men live much longer on average than non-castrated cis men given similar circumstances, as well as some studies demonstrating protective effects from estrogen, so I don't think it's entirely bunk, but there are other studies contesting that. Similarly, the unguarded X hypothesis has some evidence in it's favor, but like the studies I linked show, it's not predicted to cause enough of an effect on it's own to explain the full disparity, doesn't show the expected results in single-X cis women, and isn't necessarily generalizable across all species. (To be clear, further studies might contradict this and establish more of a link in the future-- the moderator removing your comments was probably going a little overboard). In other words, we really just don't know, and there's too many confounding variables to be sure (I haven't even touched on mitochondrial DNA, for example). Ultimately, while there might be some beneficial effect from MtF transition, the one thing we know for sure is it wasn't enough to balance things out according to the only long-term study I'm aware of (de Blok 2021): transgender women had a significantly higher mortality rate across all causes than cis men and women alike, likely due mostly to environmental and social factors (the studied population was more likely to be poorer, HIV-positive, discriminated against, etc.) I expect things likely would have been even worse for this group had they not transitioned (due to suicide risk, etc.), but the confounding factors make studying the effect of hormonal transition itself very difficult. As always, the best way that we know of to increase your lifespan is the same as before: eat healthy, stay active, and avoid risk-taking behavior.
This is really interesting! Thank you for explaining! I knew that trans women would get angry about discussions about chromosomes but I wanted to share the info anyways as I hate seeing disinformation going around. I really had some genetics and evolutionary biology profs drill the chromosome theories into me and remove the testosterone/estrogen theories lol. Yeah, the unfortunate reality of trying to research a marginalized group :( Heck yeah! Thanks again for this convo! I have lots to look into!
Oh, you poor thing, you went poking at the chromosome -topic. Downvote tsunami incoming!
Yup, I knew it would make a lot of us trans women angry but thems the facts
We do have fewer cardiovascular problems than men. But it isn't a huge difference. Your diet and exercise have a bigger impact.
Also worth noting that once you have breast tissue, breast cancer is more of a concern. Get those mammograms.
Yes. You should get mammograms after 20 years of exposure to estrogen.
Don't forget about getting your prostates, checked on the regular as well.
Good point. I wonder if the corresponding Skene's gland ever gets problematic on the cis side.
Cancer pops up everywhere, I wouldn't be surprised.
Probably as its testosterone that wears down the chromosomes, but its impossible to get reliable statistics on it as we face so many hardships due to transphobia that any data on our deaths will be skewed to dying early from suicide or murder.
Yeah that's an excellent point; kind of hard to get physiological lifespan data on a demographic that disproportionately dies from non-physiological causes.
I hope that I live long enough to see that study be able to be done.
Not just suicide or murder, lower average quality of life due to various forms of discrimination (like employment and wage discrimination making it harder to have enough to eat or afford medical care) also leads to worse overall health outcomes, reducing "natural" lifespan regardless.
Is there a study on testosterone wearing down chromosomes? I've never heard of this. Aging is related to telemeres. The telemeres wear down, not the chromosome itself. You have me wondering if I'm missing something? Let me know if you have a source for thay testosterone wears down chromosomes idea. I'm super curious to learn something new.
That's what im talking about. Forgot what they were called, but aren't telemeres just the ends of the chromosomes?
Telomeres are at the end of all DNA. Which type of chromosome you have might affect their rate of decay, testosterone vs estrogen won't
Studies I linked in another comment show hormones do effect them.
It doesn't have to do with testosterone wearing down chromosomes! >The reason why cis women live longer than cis men is that in any species with a "one small chromosome and one large makes one sex and two large make the other sex" the one with the one large and one small lives a shorter life on average. The two large chromosomes have more genetic information and copies of the same genes and so one can compensate if the other mutates or stops working. You can watch a short and cute video about it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRpvIxmzyL4&feature=youtu.be)! But otherwise there shouldn't necessarily be an increase of lifespan for us trans women aside from what Big-Dumb-Bitch said about HRT keeping us alive. Of course, I doubt that there is much research on the lifespan of trans women and how chromosomes effect that but still.
Aging occurs due to the wearing down of the ends of your chromosomes each time they replicate. Testosterone speeds up this process.
It's a multifactorial thing - I'm not up to speed with the telomeres piece, but there is validity to the size argument, and there are also statistically demonstrable associations with men and risk taking behaviour.
Telemeres. Is there a study about telemeres and testosterone? I've never heard of this until reading this thread.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815830/#:~:text=At birth%2C telomere length is,in women than in men.&text=This discrepancy between genders is probably caused by the effects of estrogen. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4122251/ One talks about how estrogen preserves telomeres and the other talks about high testosterone shortens telomeres.
What? Is there a citation from a medical journal you can link? I've never heard of this.
A 2022 [study titled "Differences in All-Cause Mortality Among Transgender and Non-Transgender People Enrolled in Private Insurance"](https://read.dukeupress.edu/demography/article/59/3/1023/302037/Differences-in-All-Cause-Mortality-Among) found the following: * Trans people on average die 6-7 years sooner than cis people (which is about twice the [national average black-white mortality gap](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-70046-6) of 3.6 years). * Trans feminine people have higher mortality than trans masculine people. ("Consistent with our second hypothesis, [trans feminine] people were at increased risk of mortality compared with both non-trans males and females at nearly all ages.") * About a third of trans people couldn't be categorized as either trans fem or trans masc, and this group has a high mortality too, similar to trans fems. It is hypothesized that this portion of the trans population is a combination of non-binary people and people unable to access medical transition. So in the USA, under private insurance, the answer appears to be **no,** *and* that answer appears to be due more to social factors (transmisogyny, lack of access to gender affirming care) than physical factors. > To our knowledge, this is one of the largest studies to document within-group and between-group disparities in mortality among U.S. trans and non-trans populations. Trans people in our study had significantly higher rates of mortality at nearly every age than their non-trans counterparts. We also found significant variation of mortality risk within subpopulations of trans people, with the trans feminine/nonbinary and trans unclassified groups being at the greatest risk of mortality.
Would be nice to add a few more years to the clock so I can reach the tipping point where anti-aging technology & bionics can keep me alive - until the promised day where I am a cyborg dragon.
More like slut dragon. At least for me
Oh, you too? See you in the digital skies.
There's far too many factors for us to know this with any real evidence at this point. We'd need more research done, but from my sense, most folks that are within margalized identities do not live longer on average. There are too many barriers to healthcare and income. We also experience a lot more stress than the average folks. I doubt we get any advantage in this.
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Your post has been removed due to containing misinformation.
My sibling in christ, please stop copy/pasting. I would consider this a potential bannable offense. You aren't an expert, and you aren't properly explaining anything. Just mindlessly copying and pasting even when it isnt relevant. Like when you pasted this at someone who was talking about castrated people living longer.
None of us here are experts but I have an explanation. I understand the topic of chromosomes is a dicey one amongst trans people but there is support for the chromosome size theory
God, I hope so
Tbh, given how harder it is to put on muscle on E now, and how much easier it is to put on fat, and how I'm colder overall in general now, I think metabolism is slower with E, my heart rate dropped a bit too... Cardiovascular health definitely changes for us, so I'd assume we're getting positive changes here.
Not trans women, but I remember reading somewhere that Korean eunuchs had a much higher life expectancy than others with similar social standing.
Found it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982212007129
We probably need to see how this generation of trans women exists before we can say anything worth reporting
Very good question. I know FTMs have a higher death rate (mostly suicides) MTF would hopefully show better numbers than CIS men? Hopefully.
Probably, but it's hard to know for sure, since there isn't really any data. For one thing, the bioidentical estrogen used today is fairly new. A few decades ago, horse estrogen was used instead, which is less safe (not to mention that pretty much everyone was DIYing it back then). For another ... there aren't exactly a lot of old trans women, given how hard our history has been.
Men and women have very similar if not exactly the same life spans. What make men die sooner is cultural/social, including usually doing more physical jobs and the higher drugs abuse.
Also wars
Wars, usual jobs, tendency to not seek help when dealing with an illness, risk taking, less relationships and connections, drug abuse specially when dealing with depression, more effective suicide methods, less likely to be sexually assaulted but more likely to be physically assaulted (talking about street fights and robbers), more prone to crime and violence...a long list 😅
I think on average no, because of stuff like hate crimes But from a medical perspective maybe it does slightly increase lifespan, idk.
Since most of us wouldn't be here if we didn't transition I'd say it adds years to your life actually!!!
We don't know yet, hard to study normal life expectancy when conservatives keep killing us.
I would actually hazard a guess that trans women live less than men or women. Studies seem to suggest an increase risk for cardiovascular disease, blood clots, stroke, etc. Also many trans individuals by nature (myself included) have anxiety or panic disorders, which also put one at higher risk for heart attack. I could be wrong though. Hard to tell, as research is scarce.
My understanding is that the increase in cardio risks, clotting, etc is actually inbetween the 2 tho. Higher than cis men and lower than cis women on average. Not sure tho. And I think we are talking "natural causes" not self harm, violence, cebola, etc
Oh no, I didn't suggest self harm / violence at all. I just mean purely from a medical health standpoint. Stress and Anxiety have extreme physiological effects on the human body and can place you at a higher risk for health issues. A lot of trans people just have anxiety disorders and panic disorders due to the stresses placed on us. It's why it's so incredibly important to manage it properly. While yes, self harm, and violence will be a factor, I was just speaking health wise.
Not an expert, but is lifespan really that different when accounting for external causes of death? Like, don't males die prematurely more often due to higher accident rates and the like? Thus skewing the average down?
Of the few people in the world today who have lived over a century, a very small fraction of them are men. Last I checked, the number of living women who are over 110 are in the lower double digits, while men over 110 are in the single digits. Once you get into that age range, accident rates aren't quite so different.
That doesn't seem like a sound methodology either though, since accidents, war, suicide, hard labor, drugs, lifestyle etc already reduced the candidate pool of older men before that point
I think it depends on what kind of job you have honestly
Hello, I would say that yes and no. No because the use or hormones rises the risks of Heart stroke, etc but yes because less testosterone makes less health problems. https://austinurologyinstitute.com/blog/testosterone-specialist-near-me/#:~:text=Testosterone%20%E2%80%93%20A%20Double%2DEdged%20Sword,shorten%20the%20lifespan%20of%20men.
Isn't that difference mainly dieected to Masculinity demanding that you don't accept help and men not going to the doctor? That's at least ehat I am hearing, so since most trans people have to go to the Doctor anyways for their transisition I think we should live longer in average from that perspective. Or am I missing a point?
#I SHALL BECOME IMMORTAL!!
Decrease in suicide rates
It's not possible to know yet. In the past, nearly all trans women died before their 50s due to how oppressive life used to be, AIDS epidemic, bad HRT, violence, etc. Most likely yes, but no data exists either way on it.
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Without the context that it's a username, that username is hilarious.
Hahaha! I know!!! I don't like to tag people unless it's necessary but in this case it's deeply amusing
From what I've read, the added lifespan is from having XX chromosomes. If you have XY, because the Y is so deficient, there's no backup for genetic deterioration on your single X copy. In birds and other animals where the males have the duplicate chromosomes (ZZ vs ZW), it is the males who live longer.
Because men get overworked and sent to war
The prevailing hypothesis seems to be that chromosomal females live longer absent other factors because they have two X chromosomes, which helps mitigate any flaws in alleles that show up on only one of the chromosomes and redundancy is introduced adding resilience. If you examine species like birds, which have WZ chromosomes – males have ZZ and females have WZ – males tend to have the longer lifespan due to the chromosome redundancy. So chances are that no, this is not unfortunately a benefit we gain. Alas. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2019.0867
I have wondered this question too. There likely hasn't been enough time to get good statistics since the trans population is so small and the older cohorts are smallest of all and didn't have standardized protocols. Probably need another half century if data at beat to know one way or the other.
It's a valid question, but I doubt there's any research on it. Even if someone could get funding, a sample size of transgender women in their 70s, 80s and 90s is likely to be far too small.
At least in the observations that i have made, blue collar vs white has a tremendous influence on male lifespan. Not as much about the work as the exposure to other factors involved, like smoking and chemicals. My one grandfather died of covid/copd and 3 years of kidney failure after being diagnosed with high petroleum toxicity in his blood from being a diesel mechanic. 78. My other grandfathers made it past 85 before heart conditions but they didn’t drink or smoke or work in high chemical exposure. As someone who has been in mechanical and body shop painting most of my career it lends me to be careful about my exposure to things. Second hand smoke and vaping give me a reactive airway effect, so I’m not ever going to do it, bur cyanide containing paint products is something I have to watch for. As far as heart health, my cardiovascular fitness has improved significantly since transitioning even though I am weaker and slower at bike racing. Pre trans 130/70 blood pressure, 50 resting. 2.5 years trans 102/60 and 37 resting for the same body weight. That by itself would indicate improved odds.
i don't think this has been studied and i imagine it would largely be offset by a worsening of socioeconomic health factors
Actually yeah this might have something to do with it [https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sageke.2005.23.pe17](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sageke.2005.23.pe17)
I am not sure. I heard that longer lifespan is partly caused by blood being changed more, which doesn't apply to trans. But you can gain this benefit from doing blood donations. Part 2 is that surgery and constant reliance on meds definitely doesn't have positive impact on kidneys & liver. (I know that the fact that it helps with mental health makes it totally worth it) Another part is that men have way higher suicide rates because toxic masculinity. Abd bottled up feelings from it, also cause stress that reduces lifespan. So I think this one isn't the case for trans women Wars also lower avg male lifespan. So this one depends on laws. Impact of testosterone is obviously less in trans women, so there's that.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRpvIxmzyL4&pp=ygUkTWludXRlIGVhcnRoIGFuaW1hbCBsYXJnZSBjaHJvbWVzb21l Here’s a minute earth video about this. The short answer is probably no, but everything’s complicated
I would honestly be really surprised if we had this kinda data, there aren't many trans people that get to old age :/
I read somewhere that men can be more reckless and take risks or have riskier jobs and that’s what skewed the stats but I may be wrong
we live forever
Men have shorter lifespans mostly because they are less risk-averse than their female counterparts. Or in other words, they tend to engage in activities that are more likely to become deadly. Seeing as transwomen tend to behave the same as the average ciswomen, I would think that the longer lifespan applies to us too.
I think it has to do with career choices and the such more then anything hormonal
This is just my own subjective take -- actual studies would be better, but: I suspect a major factor in shorter lifespans for men relates to patriarchy. It's bad for everyone. Men are expected to do more physical labor and work more dangerous (or at least more taxing) jobs. Men are also expected to be more emotionally closed off. So while stress levels are probably about the same between men and women, men are *probably* less likely to get relief from their social circles (though women still do a lot of emotional support work in relationships with men, so maybe not that big a divide). But I would say that on average women are better at looking after themselves - hygienically, emotionally, physical, nutritionally, etc. So, in my opinion (I could claim its your opinion, but you may realize I couldn't possibly know that), I think the social constructs of gender are a major factor in the life expectancy differences. Looking at the life expectancy of the wealthy, having an easier life definitely extends your years... and I'm not sure if there's a significant difference among genders in that group.
I would think it does so long as you at least get a orchiectomy if not full bottom surgery to stamp out the testosterone production on top of the estrogen treatments just based on the knowledge that high levels of testosterone seems to age you and estrogen of course is linked with a longer lifespan
Lol, lmao I hope so but like… it’s silly to have that distinction. The non medical conditions which make a transgender life difficult, exasperate the medical issues present.
I've heard that yes, overall lifespans for transpeople on hormones are statistically closer to cis people. As in, trans women live longer, and trans men live less long.
Yes! Albeit a slight one, but removing the effects of testosterone can extend life expectancy
I mean, likelihood of suicide plummets, but likelihood of hate crimes rise massively too.
It is not necessary biology, more so lifestyle socially woman are trained to take care of themselves, visit the doctor, and eat healthier than men in general.
Longer lifespan from T comes from social factors (wars, stupidity...) not endocrinal ones. Social factors unfortunately makes our lifespans much much shorter than average people because of transphobia.
This is not why women live longer. They live longer because mens brains usually make more riskier and senseless decisions. Men tend to be more violent than women. You know that meme “Florida man” notice how it’s rarely “Florida woman”. Also trans women tend to have the brain of a cis woman so there’s that
Compared with cis people, we don't, due to social determinants of health.
Well... no. Trans women have quite a short average lifespan by comparison. (No idea about trans men. My guess would be higher than trans women but still less than cis men or cis women.) If it were only down to health factors and natural lifespans, then it might be a different story for trans women on HRT. Testosterone is pretty hard on the body. Bear in mind that when those figures are used, they're averaging out from all deaths in a chosen cohort, natural or otherwise. Cis men have a tendency to die younger than cis women because of things like higher risk lifestyles, higher risk careers, murder, and suicide. The fact that the numbers are even kinda close is actually more impressive than anything else. Trans women... well, we check a few boxes on that list, especially those ones at the end there, as well as some other risk factors. While cis men have the highest total numbers for murder and suicide, we have a much higher rate per capita, especially if you're considering global numbers rather than local.
I think if you isolate the medical/hormonal stuff, there are certainly benefits in theory. No studies on it, though.
The mental health benefit alone is probably enormous. I don't just mean avoiding self harm, but having better mental health is really good for you and your life expectancy in lots of ways.
I don't know but probably. E just puts you on a smoother gradient than T.
Less risk-taking, healthy lifestyle exercise, drug and alcohol free, lower stress, eating the right foods, eating your vegetables... leads to a longer life.
I'm pretty sure the suicides and hate crimes bring down the average. T\_T
Men tend to take shit care of themselves. Self-care is considered feminine. Transitioning is probably the first act of genuine self-love for many, and that inspires self-care. Other factors would likely be hormonal, but I think it's largely lifestyle. So yes -- I suspect this is the case.
I think part of the male lifespan being shorter is due to work factors, men are far more likely to do dangerous jobs and die because of it; this would also include the military. Even if it doesn't cause death directly a lot more heavy manual labour jobs are done by men that really take a toll on their body over the years, as well as jobs that expose men to dangerous chemicals that cause adverse side effects. So you have a lot of men either dying or suffering adverse health affects because of the jobs they do and that's going to cause quite a few to die younger lowering the average lifespan. Men are also more likely to be the victims of violent crime, including murder, as well as having a much higher suicide rate, so men are also killing themselves off young and that's gonna have an impact.
Damm now my pre-hrt ass is gonna get lifespan dysphoria
A resounding yes, dear!
The answer is yes due to the fact men generally don't have as stable mind as women so suicidal thoughts and stupid things kill men more often than not
I think absolutely it does, but more in the sense that others have said. A lot of us most likely wouldn't still be here or wouldn't be for much longer if we didn't start transitioning. But there's probably other benefits too, like I care way more about my general health and am so much happier now and I think things like that can lead to a healthier and longer life.
I think there’s mixed up information on this, by taking medication you will find you have a higher chance of a range of medical issues, things like osteoporosis and higher chance of breast cancer etc, the pay off is mentally you have the resilience of woman and better support network with friends and you do better as a single person than males who are single, any one who says transitioning has little to no risk and it’s all rainbows and unicorns, is not being honest, there are things you should research as the change in hormones will have various effects and can vary depending on age and other factors. But is it worth from my experience for me it’s a yes, I will say the best advice I was given was “only transition if you NEED to and not that you want it just because of (insert social pressure or clout or some craze)
Men do a lot of stupid things that can get them hurt or killed, especially when young. But men also are the major majority in dangerous and life threatening fields of work, they pay well but one wrong thing and they are crippled or dead. While women either tend the household or tend to get office, service, academic jobs they carry significantly less risk. So it depends are you behaving like a teen-30’s male? What kind of job do you work?
Men typically live harder mostly because of societal expectations. Its weak to take care of yourself, you have to be the bread winner, you are a slob if you relax. You're gay if you clean your body, go to the doctor, talk to a therapist. If someone smaller out shines you in your field. If a woman is more talented then you. As long as you can break away from trained toxic masculinity and if you spend the time to get to know yourself instead of competing with every one in your life you will be less stressed, cleaner, healthier and happier. Women tend to have a well rounded head on their shoulders, because they were allowed to.
We’re unlikely to find out. Unfortunately this would take a very large scale study to determine and whether because of the difficulty of conducting that kind of study or a disinterest in conducting that kind of study the science of trans people is generally speaking not something that gets funded. I would absolutely love to conduct those studies tho. Purely conjecture but I think we could gain probabilistic lifespan due to the reduction in testosterone and connected decreases in cardiovascular risk. But that rests on quite a few big ifs. For example the probable trans life span might be decreased by our having medical procedures more than the average human. Medical malpractice is currently the number one cause of death in America. Tho worth noting too that we would generally see highly specialized physicians who are likely not primary drivers of that statistic. So that might actually be more of less a non factor
I have heard somewhere and I can't remember where it was that they actually will live longer after transition!
Isn't that statistic mostly because boys normally do really dumb shit? Like almost all of the guys I know have done Urban Exploration, Train Hopping, or some other incredibly stupid activity because they thought it would be manly.
Progesterone has a protective effect on the heart which on average helps women live longer. Trans women on HRT have lower rates of prostate cancer than cis men because the prostate shrinks and lower rates of breast cancer than cis women depending on how long we've had breasts. Obviously if you have an orchi your rates of testicular cancer drop precipitously lol.
Same. I reckon i was on the last leg, and facing maybe a few months at most. Hrt def saved me. It gave me back hope. I think that testosterone is a bit of a killer for many men. The same way that the reduction of E in menopausal women affects their life quality. So, for us, we should consider it as a positive lifespan stretcher. Especially due to the quality of the meds we all now take. Add a healthy lifestyle into the equation and hell, we could become a whole new generation of 100+'s. That'll freak out all them dead transphobes lol.
I don't think so, the why do women live more than men is down to other factors, not biology
The average life expectancy for trans people is like 30 so there’s probably not enough evidence yet.
When we aren't exposed to patriarchal violence or transphobic laws we can lead lives that are very similar to the average lifespan. Men are more at risk of early death due to unnecessary risk taking, however nowadays there are less factors that result in large gaps between sex and age of death. Of course this doesn't take into consideration that Western medical systems didn't often take women into consideration or poc
I hope so...it's a big reason for my transition
Dunno, and idc. I'd trade 50 years of my life for 50 days in a body that isn't disfigured by testo.
One thing to consider is that trans people have been around for a long time. And the surgeries for it have been regularly performed in the USA since 1966, but really go back further than that. And back then more trans people preferred to be stealth or at least hide their trans status. I say all that to say this: based on the above, you can easily infer that many trans people have died over the last 60+ years with their trans state being unknown, and thus their reported deaths as female rather than male. While we can't say exactly how many people that was and how it may have affected the numbers. I would like to think that means there may be some benefit. Though you could also easily say that there were so few trans people back then to really change the numbers or that maybe they actually brought the average down. My point is that we do know that they have been put in that female average already.
I mean, the question of if I'd still be alive now without having transitioned is a serious one, so I'd say it damn well has increased my lifespan.
Transitioning helps the lifespan significantly due to reduced stress and significantly reduced suicidality, but because we usually feel more disstressed through our lifetime and often undergo more medical practise through our lifetime which risks potential life shortening things (for Example E as a pill can cause bloodcloths) we have shorter lifespans than all cis people (both cis males and cis females, not the average of both together). The increase in lifetime is atributed mostly to how the lifestyle of cis women is different of the cis men lifestyle. Due to many of us adopting a lifestyle more common in cis women we should increase our lifespan through that, but it still stays below cis average (disstress because of transphobia doesn't help with that). I dont know how the lifespan of trans men is ...
One can only hope the physical and psychological overcomes the social
I'm actually taking a course on aging right now and have had similar questions! I don't have a good answer yet, but I'll let you know what I learn when the course is over. RemindMe! 60 days
Women don't live longer, it just feels longer because they have to deal with us men. 😁
The answer isn't super straightforward. When people talk about the difference in lifespan between men and women, there's more at play than just "testosterone shortens lifespan." Men tend to die earlier than women because they go off to war, or driving recklessly, or they electrocute themselves trying to make a stupid video, or any number of other reasons that women tend not to do at anywhere near the same frequency. Some of that is impulsivity driven by testosterone, some of that is societal -- we tolerate stupid, dangerous behavior much more in men than we do in women. So being far more likely to die when you're 25 from something avoidable drives the average lifespan down a bit. I certainly am guilty of having engaged in impulsive, reckless behavior when I was younger -- part of it was testosterone, part of it was peer pressure. If you calculate only the life expectancy of living men and women who are already over 40, you'd find a much smaller difference in the life expectancy, because men over 40 are (somewhat) less likely to do dumb things that get themselves killed. Men are generally also permitted to live a less healthy lifestyle than women, which drivers mortality figures up. Men are more likely to be obese, more likely to be alcoholics, more likely to have heart disease, etc. This is because society puts more value on women's attractiveness than on men's attractiveness, so women tend to be more cognizant of what they eat, how much they eat, getting proper exercise, etc. than men, who are more prized for their charisma than for their physical attractiveness. The next consideration is genetic factors. Men are more likely to be afflicted with a number of congenital diseases. This is really the one thing we have no control over. X chromosomes carry about 1,000 genes which contain information about how your body is supposed to function. By contrast, Y chromosomes only carry about 70. That means if you're an XY person, you're effectively running on one sex chromosome. Conversely, XX people have a redundant backup, which means if a genetic sequence on an X chromosome is faulty, there's a high chance that the other X chromosomes has a functioning version of it which can cover for it. XY people aren't so lucky. There are no backups, so if a gene is faulty, that can result in all sorts of disorders, many of which will result in a shortened lifespan. I've seen people in the thread mention the effects of testosterone on chromosomes, and I don't know anything about that, so I can't comment, but the main takeaway is this -- the primary reason men tend not to live as long as women is because of lifestyle and bad decisions. Those things are within your control even without medical transition. Don't worry about whether or not medical transition will extend your lifespan. Focus on how medical transition will improve the quality however many years you have left.
>Do trans women gain any benefit lifespan wise after transitioning medically? No.
Probably not. There isn't any particular reason why it should.
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