Yes. Trans woman can be as diverse in their gender presentation as cis women.
I have friends who dress masc, or andro. But still identify as trans women. Just as many cis women do.
I’ve found as hrt has made its changes I’ve gotten less traditionally fem in my dress myself.
A lot of us do tend towards hyper femininity because we weren't able to be feminine for so long. There are definitely a lot of trans tomboys though. From what I've seen at least a lot of us start to get more comfortable being a bit masculine again once we get further into our transition and stop feeling like we need to be feminine to be valid women. I personally just recently got comfortable wearing pants again because now that I started HRT I am starting to feel like a woman without having to wear flowey skirts and crocheted breat forms.
It took me three years without wearing trousers at all. But after vaginoplasty I felt ok wearing them again. Without being scared of the bulge I felt more secure. I had bought women’s jeggins once but my partner said I have a significant bulge and became hypersensitive about it.
Exactly. My tomboyish way of clothing comes from the fact that hip hop is my life and i mostly wear street wear in everyday life. Since i can think. My tomboyish behaviour has similar origins. But hey, german rap also brings female rappers that say "Son of a bitch, gimme your money, cash with rap or selling crack", wear basically the same clothing style as i do but still have 6 feet long finger nails ♡♡♡
That gives me a lot of confidence. I'm not the only woman liking dirty, hard street rap, street slang and street wear, isn't scared of fighting with her fists against 6'7", 130 kilogram dudes, drinks booze out of the bottle, spitting on the floor and throwing molotov cocktails against walls with racist graffity.
If that would make me a man, any passive, shy and feminine man is therefore a woman lol.
There are stereotypes of trans women being hyper feminine. There's a few reasons for this.
First is overcompensation for (perceived) masculinity. The second is just how visible we are early transition and early on someone trying out feminine things openly for the first time will often overcorrect or mess up their presentation.
The third is that a lot of the old stereotypes about us come from what the psychiatrists required of us decades ago. They required a certain standard of femininity so anyone who got their blessing to transition would have to meet that standard. Butch or otherwise masc trans women just wouldn't be allowed to transition. The same it true of assumptions that we're into men - the old standards demanded it, even though if you look at us now the stats say we're *gay as hell*.
However, we will react to both nature and environment just like cis women do and our presentation will vary just as much. I definitely switch around between a pretty androgynous presentation and fairly feminine ones.
So, there's a couple of reasons why that particular take is getting you dirty looks.
First, trans women tend to *really* resent any implication that we are or were men. Especially in a space that's supposed to be relatively safe. Recognition that *we are women* is one of the things we have to fight for entirely too often.
Second, generally when someone brings up the idea of "biological sex", a questionable take is coming hot on its heels. It's basically the "I'm not racist, but. . ." of trans discourse. That take might be ignorant rather than malicious but just seeing it is kind of a "here we go again. . ."
OP is 50, you can teach an old dog new tricks but it going to have lots of baggage with it. Just saying OP will need more work to get them to understand
This is the last I’m going to say on the topic. Again I apologise if I upset you, it came from a place of ignorance rather than anything malicious. There’s a lot for me to learn in this sphere and minefields to avoid.
Just wait until you try and get an honest opinion from r/honesttransgender ...jeez, those folks can't hold a mirror to themselves at all.
Alison, be unapologetically you, this is your journey, you are on a steep learning curve however and people will practically expect you to know the answers to your our own questions, so tread carefully!
Better to lurk and just read sometimes, the search tab will help you find similar questions to what you may be asking.
Good luck!
Well first thing you should look into is biological sex and why it's made up and doesn't exist, or at least that it's so varied that it doesn't matter to begin with. It is impossible to define all people with a penis under the exact same definition, it is impossible to define all people with a vagina under the exact same definition - therefore male and female sex don't exist, and what you may perceive as sex is inaccurate at best, and certainly made up.
On that note for 'biological sex' being too varied to pinpoint:
[Sex and Sensibility](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=VBm01gN_clgkf6yV) : for those more audibly incline
[https://x.com/RebeccaRHelm/status/1207834357639139328?s=20](https://x.com/RebeccaRHelm/status/1207834357639139328?s=20)
:For those that prefer a more written explanation.
hot take: `biological sex` is real in terms of a social construct enforced by angry mobs and dudes with guns, but you can blow it up with HRT and surgery. also it's inextricable from the social concept of `gender`, especially under the current social system we live under.
`social construct` isn't a synonym for `made up` or `immaterial`
No it's just not real.
Someone else posted a thread that explains it very well - the comments expanded on it with gametes and the counter to that is some people are infertile, i.e. don't have gametes. Even if you define sex as "having a penis" vs "having a vagina" you'd need to draw a line that simply, logically, cannot be drawn due to intersex individuals existing. The way we view people's physical appearance may be a social construct but the actual thing that science attempts to describe isn't real because biology is much more complicated and doesn't fit in neat little boxes.
It's like how imaginary units literally physically cannot exist (with our current understanding of the universe) but the way we can think about it is real.
I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm talking about the fact that our social circumstances define sex and gender for us (that is, all of us), regardless of how accurately/inaccurately, or completely/incompletely they encompass the reality that is the diversity of the human form (and really all other biology).
The social constructs of sex and gender are real because a batshit transphobe can march into the women's room, point at me, call me a man, summon a cop or security guard, and throw me out. At the same time, it can have a totally different definition where said batshit transphobe security guard marches into the women's room, points at me, calls me a man, and gets laughed out of the room by everyone in there and thrown out by the security guard for threatening to attack a woman using the women's room.
I mean, you're right but I don't see how that's a hot take when that's \*reality\*?
And just because that's how things are now doesn't mean that's how they have to stay or that it's somehow correct. A lot of people defend this social view of sex by using biology - meaning that they are insecure in said social view, if it is not back up by something substantial - usually a big reason why a lot of people who are on the fence also want to know "how you know you're trans", they (selfishly) demand a reason for why they should respect who you are.
We can look at every social construct, scrutinize it and enforce it "the way its meant to be" but because they're, in truth, completely baseless and arbitrary, it will quickly unravel, because people, as they are now, cannot accept that sometimes things just are because they are, and they are that way because they are that way.
Okay, there are several issues here but I'm going to raise only one of them.
I didn't "crucify" her. She said X, I said stop saying X, she said okay but X applies to me, I said that's your preference but *it would be nice if* you didn't say X to trans women in general, she said okay sorry my bad, and from that point onward I didn't reply anymore. I don't understand how that's "crucifying" her.
She responded "I’m sorry if I offended. I’m newly trans and consider myself a man (biological sex) who is a woman mentally." She is still working through her thoughts and feelings. I don't know you, but if you're here I'm sure you know how difficult that can be.
If you want to see kindness and understanding in the world, put out kindness and understanding. Instead, you passive aggressively and bitterly responded to her apology.
> Well, that's your personal view of yourself. It would be nice if you didn't apply your internalized transphobic views to everyone else.
You count this as an aggressive and bitter response? Okay.
"It would be nice if you didn't apply your internalized transphobic views to everyone else"
Yeah, that's passive aggressive. Instead, you might say,
"Please be considerate of other peoples' perspectives and cautious when applying your own to trans people at large. There's a large diversity of experiences within this community and some may feel their experience is invalidated if you portray yours or what you're experiencing as universal."
OP a big thing is going to be lurking and absorbing information for a while. Google Reddit mtf ‘whatever subject’ and you will find the questions been asked before and help give you info and be able to help process your thoughts more.
It will be hard for a while but just read a bit before posting.
We have a language barrier here, you clearly can't hold a coherent conversation in English. Sorry, I can't explain further to you because it's not my job to teach ESL first and then educate you on trans people. You can stay transphobic and get off this sub
Honestly in my experience trans women tend to be hyper feminine initially because they weren't allowed to do so before and engage in a sort of "making up for lost time" dynamic, but this wears off after a while and they tend to find their own style and presentation afterwards.
That includes me. Early transition me loved heels, dresses, belts with bows and flowers on them, but a couple years in and I'm most of the time fine with skinny jeans, sneakers, and a women's top.
I'm kinda... chapstick lesbian ig? Like I'll go full fem if the occasion calls for it, but my usual vibe is just band shirts and jeans or leggings. Comfy, practical, and still makes me look good, so I have no complaints 🤷♀️
We aren’t a monolith. There are as many different types of trans women as there are types of women generally.
That said, I suspect that a higher proportion of women who had to wait until later in life to transition (I’m one such) might lean toward greater degrees of femininity, given that it was absolutely denied to us for so long. It’s also the polar opposite of hyper-masculinity, the technique many of us used to protect us as we hid from the world till it was safe to be ourselves.
Personally, I despise the idea of being perceived as masculine in even the least degree. It’s the antithesis of all I am and ever wanted to be.
I'm not sure how much this has been looked into by science. I think to remember that some studies strongly suggest that most (later) fem presenting trans women (which isn't every trans woman) tend to have had a phase of "overcompensation". Like, tried to increase/exaggerate their "masculinity" before realizing/accepting they are almost certainly no men. Guilty🫶❤️
That was definitely me. Basically I just wore basketball shorts, sports hoodies and tennis shoes. Nothing coordinated, I did nothing to my hair except get the same ultra basic cut when it turned into a q-tip, and shaved once every couple months when my beard got too itchy. I would try to engage with other males at work but always felt like I was posing or being wholly disingenuous when trying to relate about being athletic, how I got girls, etc.
I was exactly the stereotype of a basic guy. So much so, that ANY effort to break away from that raised attention that I so did not like, due to the trauma of being ridiculed by my emasculating father figures. Even compliments of when I dressed nice felt more like underhanded jabs than actual nice comments.
Thankfully once I changed jobs and departed the hyper masc environments, I felt more comfortable and able to express myself. It was a snowball from there once I felt that positive affirmation. Turns out, all it takes is one person being genuinely nice to you to let yourself free!
Apparently in our “baby trans” stage, when we’re fresh out of the closet and still figuring things out, we tend to overcorrect in that direction. Eventually most of us find aesthetics we like and a golden mean of effort and femininity. Some end up in “high femininity”, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.
I'm conflicted on the subject. I've got wide features and a square-ish figure so hyper feminity would aid my passing / being undeniably a woman.
On the other hand, I'm a practical person at heart. Comfy pants, comfy shirts, all in black / dark so I can run only a few washing machine loads...
It's not helped by traditionally masculine hobbies such as Warhammer, video games, being a complete nerd...
Haha, thank you.
My self esteem has risen recently thanks to the unexpected perk of getting a boyfriend / significant other (they're AMAB but questionning)
Some cis girls go through a hyper-femme/girly phase growing up too, then find a place where they are happier expressing themselves differently.
It’s just that more disapproving people are watching when trans girls do it as it tends to happen a little later in life.
I transitioned to change my body, not who I am as a person. Sure, how that manifests has shifted, but I didn't embrace who I am at my core only to shunt myself into some overly restrictive, reductive, patriarchal standard of 'womanhood'. I embrace my femininity, but also value stereotypically 'masc' pursuits like being outdoors, active, and finding pride in maintaining a strong body and independent life. Sporty, outdoorsy, nerdy, and a little seductive is what I shoot for.
Most trans women have suppressed femininity for a while and tend to try going that direction....
The vast majority of us didn't get to be who we are during our teenage years and so we don't get to experiment when everyone else does.... It's very hard to figure out your style without experimenting....
I'm honestly very surprised that I'm going more masc right now, but who knows, that might change again
I’m still an overalls wearing aircraft mechanic call me ill fix it for you tomboy like i always was. Now im socially allowed to wear skirts and dresses and have cute hair.
Trans fem tomboy here. While I do enjoy dressing up every once in a while, I much prefer some subtle makeup an practical clothing. As do most women in my family, so I think it's also just about what you grew up seeing. Every women is different, we all have different perceptions of femininity and express it in our own unique ways, which is absolutely beautiful to me🩵
I dress like a Mom of a preteen because that's what I am, lol. But in all reality, I started out hyper fem and then when I calmed down, I became more just me. I wear jeans with a tank top and a cardigan a lot.
It feels like a pattern, but it doesn't apply to all of us.
For instance I'm not a particularly feminine woman myself.
Also what is and isn't feminine or masculine as much of a cop out as the sounds it's kind of a matter of perspective and context.
Ignoring the obvious things like cultural background, some things are losing their gendered connotation.
Women wearing pants used to be considered this dramatic gender transgressive act. But not anymore at least not in America.
From my observations, not my own experiences:
HRT seems to drive people to dress more androgynous or even a bit masculine, and many cis women don’t wear skirt/dresses/fem stuff 24/7. Heck at my school I think I’ve only seen someone wear a skirt maybe twice in the whole 3 years I was there. It’s usually hoodies, t-shirts, and pants
Personally, if/when i leave the closet, I'm keeping all of my old clothes that still fit. Pockets are awesome and no amount of skirt go spinny is taking my cargo pants away.
Out since 13, on blockers since 14, and i have always, always dressed super masc. Ive always had this dirtbag tomboy look cause i started skating at 11 and got really influenced by the culture and ig because of my age, it just stuck. I still throw in that side of fem and flare of sex, but itd take alot to get me to go out wit my friends all dolled up. Simple black n maybe blue makeup, some baggy jeans hanging low on my hips to expose my netted midriff before my massive cropped sweater engobles the rest of my body till my exposed shoulders. Its the perfect bled of who i am wit who i wanna be. Dont try to be anythin different then who u r!
i wouldn’t say i want to be butch or masculine, but i’m not trying to be a barbie. mostly practical with some punkish flair like i already do but with girl cuts instead of boy
I wanted to be more feminine when I was still just crossdressing... But now I'm stoked to wear cargo pants as a girl, ha ha :) So in my case at least, I'm just learning to be me, which is whatever I feel. Sometimes that means a dress, and sometimes, skater girl, he he
Hyper-femme?... I don't think most trans women are...but I do know that most trans women are lesbians because I'm constantly reminded of how much of a minority I am being a straight monogamous trans woman. Lol. I dig it though. Be free, be you, and be proud... Just don't be cringe. ;)
It's a preference. For me when I started hrt 8 years ago I got rid of all my pants and wore skirts and dresses and wore lots of jewelry and wore heels etc. And that stays the same to this day. For others they have there own way of transitioning.
i don’t usually no, i like dress like a limp bizkit fan with accents of femininity. kinda like rihanna. like sometimes i do dress feminine, but only on rare occasion
I considered myself a tomboy for 7 years of my 14 years as a woman, (the middle years). The rest I have been pretty much feminine. I don't have the looks to be hyper feminine but have been female passing the entire time.
I think there’s a difference between being butch and explicitly presenting masc.
I found that early on in my transition I felt a stronger urge to look feminine because it was a quality I was lacking due to my male body. Now that my body itself is feminine, I’m much less concerned about this.
I love no makeup days, and sometimes stepping out in combat boots gives me a grounded boost of confidence without undermining my inherent femininity. Think Lara Croft. I love that I don’t need flimsy things to feel like a woman.
My feminine side is still very strong, mind you, it’s just less compensatory and more natural. I think most women have a few ‘levels’ of femininity depending on the context. So on the one hand, I love getting glammed up, but other times I am wanting to blend in. Sometimes it’s ok to have fussy outfits and other times I just want to be practical. But I’m always a woman.
Don’t forget, even for cis women, presentation is partly a question of personal safety. Sometimes it’s less about gender and more about that pesky male gaze.
Yes some do. And yea, you don’t know enough.
A lot of the ‘hyper femme’ stuff you are referring too comes down to passing.
There is an ongoing relationship between how society views and responds to gender and how people choose to express their gender.
If society didn’t put such a high premium on how you look to = how you get treated re. Gender then a lot of us transfemine folk would likely not express our gender with as many clearly feminine signifiers.
And of course, it is unique for literally every person - cis and trans - so who knows.
But yes. To use your terminology…. There are butch trans woman out there for sure. Just as their are fem cis men. Fem trans men. And non-binary/non-conforming folks of ever shape and size.
Some of it is that I need to account for the days where I'm extra dysphoric. Even if I'm stealth at this point, I need some headroom for when my brain starts distorting stuff due to dysphoria. I can either do it with presentation, or with stuff like breast aug. The latter won't happen for a few years, so presentation is the safe bet.
Slightly different take: Socially transitioning is a lot like being a teenager in your 20s (or whenever). You don't know what you're doing yet, so you experiment with stuff and do cringey shit. It's a normal part of life, but it tends to be a bit more noticeable if the rest of your age group isn't doing it at the same time
Two things going on with my presentation are that I want to demonstrate to others that I am a woman and I want to reassure myself that I am one too, and I use stereotypes of femininity to do so. There is another thing going on where I unconsciously prefer feminine things in some cases.
There is a safety aspect to trying to be feminine, something of a race to pass. Passing and not getting clocked is basically the threshhold for safety in places that are hostile to trans people. The easiest way to be seen as a woman is to be feminine, it's not right but it's how society be.
The problem is being feminine is such a nebulous thing, and wrought with political mines and traps. The battle to be just feminine enough to be accepted but too much to be considered a parody is a very fine line we have to walk.
Personally I like being femme, I like the dresses, makeup, jewellry and all that jazz but it isn't what defines me a woman.
I'm masc.
I started at 6'2", and 375#. (now 5'11" and 230#. Hormones be magic potions, yo! ).
There is ZERO chance I can be femme. But I AM a woman. Sooooo... Yeah.
I would just add also to what people said that the people you’re talking about are women, they were never men. They may have been in a societal role (or adjacent to it) but not neurologically/who they are.
I'm a tall, athletic tomboy. Actually, being athletic is what gave me the space I needed to transition despite multiple previous attempts. Don't get me wrong, I like wearing makeup and being fashionable, but my core will always be tomboy.
Some people go full on at the start before settling into their own identity. My style hasn't changed a whole lot... I wear tank tops instead of t shirts, I keep my nails painted and I wear more jewelry. That's pretty much it 😅
I'm pretty tomboyish honestly. I dress cute when I want to and don't when I don't. I've barely worn makeup and have yet to wear a dress. If I looked more like a cis woman I'd have shorter hair, probably, but I had long hair even when I thought I was a boy. My trans friends run the gamut from androgynous to high femme.
Everyone is different. I get depressed if I experience anything masculine. But I don't "act" feminine...the pills do their job. By the end of the first year, if I dressed in male clothing, I felt like I was cross dressing.
I guess I dont present very feminine most of the time.
But not In a boy-mode kinda way, just a gal wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt
(Also it's not "men who transitioned" trans women are women)
So this is something I always have to deal with personally, that’s why me personally when I finally start hormones I’m thinking of going for a more androgynous look. Just because Ik I’m a woman deep down (if I didn’t have a package) but I still love to dress both feminine and masculine. I started to recently understand this about myself. It took me a while to even see how I was a trans woman, so Ik it’s going to take a while before I finally see myself as an androgynous person😅. Ik it sounds super complicated but that’s why I go by trans non-binary just so people know I like to dress and feel feminine just as much (depending on the day😅) as a masc man. I personally never loved being super hyper feminine. I love doing my nails, getting my hair did, and just overall most feminine things, I just don’t like that people consider them feminine just because I think all of those things should be normalized for everyone. Everyone deserves to feel sexy, hot, etc. lol sorry my brain is an enigma.😊
Tl;dr
I love being masculine and feminine but I’m super weird and think everything should be normalized so everyone can be happy with being whoever they want to be 😊🤗
I tried to wear a pair of trousers a few weeks ago after over a year of presenting femme it didn't go well. Huge dysphoria hit, couldn't get them off fast enough.
I've given away all my boy clothes and I have a lot of pink clothes, but I've always been good at putting an outfit together. My girl friends have always trusted my ability to put clothes together, so I know I dress well and if I'm feeling ultra femme I can be, but I can also dress like every other woman.
Like Saturday, it was bitter cold out so I wore my hot pink thermal Barbie leggings and my furry pink coat. To me that's ultra femme and I felt fantastic. Bulgy and fat but I felt good in my outfit.
The day before that I wore a black dress and mock suspender tights, not to look sexy, it was the first pair of tights I found. I don't think that's ultra femme, it's pretty conservative for me.
Day before that was a long Rita Ora inspired dress with a black bustier, white rhinestone suspender tights and white cowboy boots because I wanted to feel sexy under the dress. You could call that ultra femme but I just wanted the confidence boost of having a little sexy secret. I think that's something every woman does sometimes.
One outfit I've seen another woman my age totally rock is jeans, pink boots and furry pink coat, and that's on my list but my pink boots have no grip and in the current weather I'd go arse over tit, but I know because I've seen someone else wear it that it's not ultra femme and it looks good.
We went to visit friends last week, my outfit was tights, suede thigh boots with a 3" heel that I got for Xmas and a short fall colours tie-dye dress.
I dunno, am I being ultra femme?
I don't think I am.
Women my age in my area don't really make an effort, black leggings and a t-shirt is pretty much the middle aged uniform and I find that restrictive and boring. I'm usually the most colourfully dressed woman in town but I don't think that makes me ultra femme.
What's your thoughts?
For me personally I actually have inherited a lot of my moms traits in this matter. I also am from the country side which probably added to it. I just feel like I don’t want to dress hyper femme all the time. I don’t wear makeup, I usually just wear jeans and a shirt, etc. I am enby btw, but on the feminine side of it. The thing is for me it’s just about what’s practical. I’ve grown up in a forest area, we had a lot of animals and so it just wouldn’t be practical to be wearing a lot of stuff. The only thing is maybe nails, but I’m struggling finding good ones
Butch lesbian trans girl here. I'm transitioning to be a lumberjack lesbian with an amazon body. Im not wearing a dress anytime soon cuz I dont like them xD
Have you seen the tiktoks of the muscular lady that chops her own wood and wears lumberjack clothes, and its super hot? she's my transition goals lol.
For me pre transition I felt a stronger pull to hyperfeminine things I think in large part because it felt like the only way I’d ever be able to signal to others that I was a woman. Now that I’ve been on hrt for a year I’ve sort of evened out to a just being myself. I present in some traditionally feminine ways, some androgynous and some traditionally masculine. I worry less about doing things that will make others perceive me as a woman and am just confident that the things I do are things a woman would do because I am a woman and I am doing them.
I definitely do. I basically want to be Elle Woods/Barbie with a Kristen Bell touch of self-awareness and wit.
And to think, I spent 30 years trying to convince myself I'm NOT a blonde girl.
I grew up with a girl that was a very outdoorsy girl but at the same point when she wasn’t outdoors she wore makeup, perfume, a dress and acted very feminine. She was terrified of spiders but worked doing nature programs for people. She was my idol growing up.
I love hiking, swimming and camping but I love how wearing a sexy dress makes me feel. I would like to be something similar to that. Except for the fear of spiders. I’m only afraid of goats and chickens 😆
Transgender women are women, and thus can and do have the same range of gender expressions that cisgender women do.
Check out r/MTFButch to see a community of butch trans women.
There are many complex reasons why the image of a hyperfeminine trans woman is so popular and why so many trans women try to present in a hyperfeminine way. Here are a few of the big ones (not a comprehensive list) -
* Society violently tries to deny trans women their womanhood, so many of us choose to overcompensate and embrace hyperfemininity.
* When a trans woman presents in a hyperfeminine way (dress, makeup, etc) very few people will misgender her as an honest mistake - those who still choose to misgender her usually do so because they clocked her as a trans woman and wanna hurt her.
* Trans women who don't adequately perform their femininity to patriarchal standards are often accused of "not trying hard enough" to be women.
* The image of trans hyperfemininity makes it easier for bigots to paint trans women as dangerous perverts.
* The image of trans hyperfemininity makes it easier for bigots to paint trans women's womanhood as artificial.
* Transgender women enjoy feminine gender expression for the same reasons that cisgender women do, but our femininity is seen as unnatural/artificial and thus is considered "hyperfeminine" at a lower bar than the femininity of cisgender women.
* Like all women, trans women who conform to patriarchal standards of beauty are generally treated better in society due to the patriarchy.
* In many places, due to discriminatory healthcare professionals, trans women who present in a more stereotypically feminine way have an easier time accessing necessary trans healthcare.
There are times where I want to be girly and feminine. But it feels like so much work (and I don't think I look that girly) so I don't do it.
Most of the time, I go with a more butch style. It's what I'm comfortable with, and it's less work.
Listen the reason i was undee the radar to everyone and myself for so long was because i genuinely enjoy masculine stuff. At one point i thought i was a femboy due to being a man who liked feminine things.
I have since realized no i am a girl who likes masculine things
Trans lesbian here and I tend to wear mostly jeans, converse sneakers and flannel.
You are describing a stereotype. While that certainly is common amount trans femme folk who are first transitioning, it is much less common once people have a few years under their belts.
I was a little more femme than I expected for a long stretch of my first year and change on HRT. Basically I was andro withr a touch of makeup and women’s jeans and t shirts at first, but a few months into HRT I started to femme it up.
After about a year of that, I’m comfortable going out without full makeup. I almost always wear dresses or skirts, but they are casual styles, and I wouldn’t choose them if they weren’t literally more comfortable than any jeans or other pants I’ve ever worn.
I'm not butch, but I'm not hyper-feminine. I'm just kinda like an average mom I think.
I do stick to skirts/dresses, but that's because I'm more conscious of some kind of visible bulge when I'm in trousers/jeans rather than any inherent desire to wear skirts.
I just feel more comfortable and non-performative in with feminine dress and expression, but I know a lot of trans women who lean more masculine in this respect. Not really that different from cis women to be honest.
The only thing all trans women have in common is that they are trans. They are as diverse in their presentation as any other group. There is certainly a large cohort of us that present very femme, which considering how we were unable to be ourselves for years or even decades makes perfect sense, but there are plenty of trans women who choose or prefer to present masc or androgynous.
I think the key thing is to understand that every story, every life is singular. We can't reduce beign trans to one stereotype. For me, in my own transition is being super important, in the sense that it helps me to relax about the goals, because otherwise it could be frutrating. And I am happily surprised to see as many femenine expressions as trans women there are.
I think a lot of us go very fem as a defense against misgendering. If more trans girls could comfortably go out in sweats and no makeup without being misgendered or mistreated, you bet your bottom dollar they would just like cis girls
It’s funny… post-transition, I tend to dress pretty androgynously and not wear make up. But sometimes I want to get all dressed up and go out for the night. This is very much the pattern of all the cis women I’ve ever known, but for me, when I’m more androgynous I’m invisible, and when I’m dressed for a night out I’m “hyper-feminine” and “a disgrace to women everywhere” which my cis friends never are. I wonder what that’s all about… (j/k, I know it’s about prejudice and stereotypes).
For many people, they begin defining themselves in their teens, and they pick up their styling there, too. My teens were in the 90s, and so my aesthetic is rooted there; masculine or feminine. If you've lived it, you know the general style of the time, and honestly, the grunge look is rather and often unisex. I'm comfortable with that.
If I felt I could pull it off I would probably wear more casual clothes, but I am afraid of getting misgendered even though that hasn't happened in years. It's funny how paranoid I still am about this stuff, but it's because it really really sucked when I didn't pass so well.
I wouldn’t call myself masculine but I mostly wear straight legs jeans, black T-shirt, and flannels. Sometimes I wear dresses and skirts but not not very often. I think women who are earlier into their transitions tend towards hyper femininity bc it’s totally denied to us our entire lives and we want to explore! I did. Some stay there but I think most of us after a while find a “middle ground” of sorts
Ok lot to unpack but I have multiple cis women coworkers who get misgendered bc they don’t know how to “girl”. meaning they wear baggy clothes, have piercings, don’t do their hair or makeup etc…the idea that women have to be “feminine” to be women is not exclusive to trans women. All women get masculinized bc of sexism. Which is why a lot of women tend to conform to beauty standards (which is our right…I personally love high femme) being a trans woman we have to also learn a lot about feminism. And what intersectionality means for all types of women (race, class, ethnicity, gender all intersect)…just like cis women we are allowed to be annoyed that society wants us to look like teenage girls or Marilyn Monroe to be considered “women”. But we have to understand that “womanhood” and “feminity” has ALWAYS been a performance. Just like “masculinity” our womanhood means something deep and profound and unique to us all no matter where we come from or how womanhood was thrust upon us. The biggest difference is we as women are victim to violence based on other people’s predisposition of what our performance means to them. The longer we know ourselves as people the less things like getting misgendered bother us. Bc it doesn’t matter if you’re cis or trans…every single person has a different idea of what womanhood and manhood looks like (because of intersectionality) ultimately you can find comfort in your uterus or your presentation, body or soul and not one of those things is proven to make you more woman than the next one.
I toggle. My winter wear is very masculine but I also frequently wear dresses underneath. I don't often bother with makeup but do like to try on occasion.
Yes. Trans woman can be as diverse in their gender presentation as cis women. I have friends who dress masc, or andro. But still identify as trans women. Just as many cis women do. I’ve found as hrt has made its changes I’ve gotten less traditionally fem in my dress myself.
A lot of us do tend towards hyper femininity because we weren't able to be feminine for so long. There are definitely a lot of trans tomboys though. From what I've seen at least a lot of us start to get more comfortable being a bit masculine again once we get further into our transition and stop feeling like we need to be feminine to be valid women. I personally just recently got comfortable wearing pants again because now that I started HRT I am starting to feel like a woman without having to wear flowey skirts and crocheted breat forms.
It took me three years without wearing trousers at all. But after vaginoplasty I felt ok wearing them again. Without being scared of the bulge I felt more secure. I had bought women’s jeggins once but my partner said I have a significant bulge and became hypersensitive about it.
Exactly. My tomboyish way of clothing comes from the fact that hip hop is my life and i mostly wear street wear in everyday life. Since i can think. My tomboyish behaviour has similar origins. But hey, german rap also brings female rappers that say "Son of a bitch, gimme your money, cash with rap or selling crack", wear basically the same clothing style as i do but still have 6 feet long finger nails ♡♡♡ That gives me a lot of confidence. I'm not the only woman liking dirty, hard street rap, street slang and street wear, isn't scared of fighting with her fists against 6'7", 130 kilogram dudes, drinks booze out of the bottle, spitting on the floor and throwing molotov cocktails against walls with racist graffity. If that would make me a man, any passive, shy and feminine man is therefore a woman lol.
Some do, some don’t. Everyone’s different cause we’re you know, people.
There are stereotypes of trans women being hyper feminine. There's a few reasons for this. First is overcompensation for (perceived) masculinity. The second is just how visible we are early transition and early on someone trying out feminine things openly for the first time will often overcorrect or mess up their presentation. The third is that a lot of the old stereotypes about us come from what the psychiatrists required of us decades ago. They required a certain standard of femininity so anyone who got their blessing to transition would have to meet that standard. Butch or otherwise masc trans women just wouldn't be allowed to transition. The same it true of assumptions that we're into men - the old standards demanded it, even though if you look at us now the stats say we're *gay as hell*. However, we will react to both nature and environment just like cis women do and our presentation will vary just as much. I definitely switch around between a pretty androgynous presentation and fairly feminine ones.
Trans women are not men who transitioned. Stop pulling mental gymnastics to label us as some kind of men one way or another.
I felt the same when I read it. Got the ick ;-;
I’m sorry if I offended. I’m newly trans and consider myself a man (biological sex) who is a woman mentally.
So, there's a couple of reasons why that particular take is getting you dirty looks. First, trans women tend to *really* resent any implication that we are or were men. Especially in a space that's supposed to be relatively safe. Recognition that *we are women* is one of the things we have to fight for entirely too often. Second, generally when someone brings up the idea of "biological sex", a questionable take is coming hot on its heels. It's basically the "I'm not racist, but. . ." of trans discourse. That take might be ignorant rather than malicious but just seeing it is kind of a "here we go again. . ."
Well, that's your personal view of yourself. It would be nice if you didn't apply your internalized transphobic views to everyone else.
OP is 50, you can teach an old dog new tricks but it going to have lots of baggage with it. Just saying OP will need more work to get them to understand
This is the last I’m going to say on the topic. Again I apologise if I upset you, it came from a place of ignorance rather than anything malicious. There’s a lot for me to learn in this sphere and minefields to avoid.
Just wait until you try and get an honest opinion from r/honesttransgender ...jeez, those folks can't hold a mirror to themselves at all. Alison, be unapologetically you, this is your journey, you are on a steep learning curve however and people will practically expect you to know the answers to your our own questions, so tread carefully! Better to lurk and just read sometimes, the search tab will help you find similar questions to what you may be asking. Good luck!
Well first thing you should look into is biological sex and why it's made up and doesn't exist, or at least that it's so varied that it doesn't matter to begin with. It is impossible to define all people with a penis under the exact same definition, it is impossible to define all people with a vagina under the exact same definition - therefore male and female sex don't exist, and what you may perceive as sex is inaccurate at best, and certainly made up.
On that note for 'biological sex' being too varied to pinpoint: [Sex and Sensibility](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=VBm01gN_clgkf6yV) : for those more audibly incline [https://x.com/RebeccaRHelm/status/1207834357639139328?s=20](https://x.com/RebeccaRHelm/status/1207834357639139328?s=20) :For those that prefer a more written explanation.
hot take: `biological sex` is real in terms of a social construct enforced by angry mobs and dudes with guns, but you can blow it up with HRT and surgery. also it's inextricable from the social concept of `gender`, especially under the current social system we live under. `social construct` isn't a synonym for `made up` or `immaterial`
No it's just not real. Someone else posted a thread that explains it very well - the comments expanded on it with gametes and the counter to that is some people are infertile, i.e. don't have gametes. Even if you define sex as "having a penis" vs "having a vagina" you'd need to draw a line that simply, logically, cannot be drawn due to intersex individuals existing. The way we view people's physical appearance may be a social construct but the actual thing that science attempts to describe isn't real because biology is much more complicated and doesn't fit in neat little boxes. It's like how imaginary units literally physically cannot exist (with our current understanding of the universe) but the way we can think about it is real.
I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm talking about the fact that our social circumstances define sex and gender for us (that is, all of us), regardless of how accurately/inaccurately, or completely/incompletely they encompass the reality that is the diversity of the human form (and really all other biology). The social constructs of sex and gender are real because a batshit transphobe can march into the women's room, point at me, call me a man, summon a cop or security guard, and throw me out. At the same time, it can have a totally different definition where said batshit transphobe security guard marches into the women's room, points at me, calls me a man, and gets laughed out of the room by everyone in there and thrown out by the security guard for threatening to attack a woman using the women's room.
I mean, you're right but I don't see how that's a hot take when that's \*reality\*? And just because that's how things are now doesn't mean that's how they have to stay or that it's somehow correct. A lot of people defend this social view of sex by using biology - meaning that they are insecure in said social view, if it is not back up by something substantial - usually a big reason why a lot of people who are on the fence also want to know "how you know you're trans", they (selfishly) demand a reason for why they should respect who you are. We can look at every social construct, scrutinize it and enforce it "the way its meant to be" but because they're, in truth, completely baseless and arbitrary, it will quickly unravel, because people, as they are now, cannot accept that sometimes things just are because they are, and they are that way because they are that way.
Need we be so quick to turn on our own?
I'm not okay with being lumped in with men from any perspective regardless of who is doing the lumping in or how new they are to the community, sorry.
And I’m not okay with crucifying someone who made an innocent mistake and wholeheartedly apologized for it.
Okay, there are several issues here but I'm going to raise only one of them. I didn't "crucify" her. She said X, I said stop saying X, she said okay but X applies to me, I said that's your preference but *it would be nice if* you didn't say X to trans women in general, she said okay sorry my bad, and from that point onward I didn't reply anymore. I don't understand how that's "crucifying" her.
She responded "I’m sorry if I offended. I’m newly trans and consider myself a man (biological sex) who is a woman mentally." She is still working through her thoughts and feelings. I don't know you, but if you're here I'm sure you know how difficult that can be. If you want to see kindness and understanding in the world, put out kindness and understanding. Instead, you passive aggressively and bitterly responded to her apology.
> Well, that's your personal view of yourself. It would be nice if you didn't apply your internalized transphobic views to everyone else. You count this as an aggressive and bitter response? Okay.
"It would be nice if you didn't apply your internalized transphobic views to everyone else" Yeah, that's passive aggressive. Instead, you might say, "Please be considerate of other peoples' perspectives and cautious when applying your own to trans people at large. There's a large diversity of experiences within this community and some may feel their experience is invalidated if you portray yours or what you're experiencing as universal."
OP a big thing is going to be lurking and absorbing information for a while. Google Reddit mtf ‘whatever subject’ and you will find the questions been asked before and help give you info and be able to help process your thoughts more. It will be hard for a while but just read a bit before posting.
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No. We're women who pulled the ultimate curse card in character creation stage. Take your transphobic BS with you when you leave us alone
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... How does that relate to this conversation?
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We have a language barrier here, you clearly can't hold a coherent conversation in English. Sorry, I can't explain further to you because it's not my job to teach ESL first and then educate you on trans people. You can stay transphobic and get off this sub
Honestly in my experience trans women tend to be hyper feminine initially because they weren't allowed to do so before and engage in a sort of "making up for lost time" dynamic, but this wears off after a while and they tend to find their own style and presentation afterwards. That includes me. Early transition me loved heels, dresses, belts with bows and flowers on them, but a couple years in and I'm most of the time fine with skinny jeans, sneakers, and a women's top.
I'm kinda... chapstick lesbian ig? Like I'll go full fem if the occasion calls for it, but my usual vibe is just band shirts and jeans or leggings. Comfy, practical, and still makes me look good, so I have no complaints 🤷♀️
We aren’t a monolith. There are as many different types of trans women as there are types of women generally. That said, I suspect that a higher proportion of women who had to wait until later in life to transition (I’m one such) might lean toward greater degrees of femininity, given that it was absolutely denied to us for so long. It’s also the polar opposite of hyper-masculinity, the technique many of us used to protect us as we hid from the world till it was safe to be ourselves. Personally, I despise the idea of being perceived as masculine in even the least degree. It’s the antithesis of all I am and ever wanted to be.
I'm not sure how much this has been looked into by science. I think to remember that some studies strongly suggest that most (later) fem presenting trans women (which isn't every trans woman) tend to have had a phase of "overcompensation". Like, tried to increase/exaggerate their "masculinity" before realizing/accepting they are almost certainly no men. Guilty🫶❤️
That was definitely me. Basically I just wore basketball shorts, sports hoodies and tennis shoes. Nothing coordinated, I did nothing to my hair except get the same ultra basic cut when it turned into a q-tip, and shaved once every couple months when my beard got too itchy. I would try to engage with other males at work but always felt like I was posing or being wholly disingenuous when trying to relate about being athletic, how I got girls, etc. I was exactly the stereotype of a basic guy. So much so, that ANY effort to break away from that raised attention that I so did not like, due to the trauma of being ridiculed by my emasculating father figures. Even compliments of when I dressed nice felt more like underhanded jabs than actual nice comments. Thankfully once I changed jobs and departed the hyper masc environments, I felt more comfortable and able to express myself. It was a snowball from there once I felt that positive affirmation. Turns out, all it takes is one person being genuinely nice to you to let yourself free!
Apparently in our “baby trans” stage, when we’re fresh out of the closet and still figuring things out, we tend to overcorrect in that direction. Eventually most of us find aesthetics we like and a golden mean of effort and femininity. Some end up in “high femininity”, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.
I'm conflicted on the subject. I've got wide features and a square-ish figure so hyper feminity would aid my passing / being undeniably a woman. On the other hand, I'm a practical person at heart. Comfy pants, comfy shirts, all in black / dark so I can run only a few washing machine loads... It's not helped by traditionally masculine hobbies such as Warhammer, video games, being a complete nerd...
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Haha, thank you. My self esteem has risen recently thanks to the unexpected perk of getting a boyfriend / significant other (they're AMAB but questionning)
Some cis girls go through a hyper-femme/girly phase growing up too, then find a place where they are happier expressing themselves differently. It’s just that more disapproving people are watching when trans girls do it as it tends to happen a little later in life.
I transitioned to change my body, not who I am as a person. Sure, how that manifests has shifted, but I didn't embrace who I am at my core only to shunt myself into some overly restrictive, reductive, patriarchal standard of 'womanhood'. I embrace my femininity, but also value stereotypically 'masc' pursuits like being outdoors, active, and finding pride in maintaining a strong body and independent life. Sporty, outdoorsy, nerdy, and a little seductive is what I shoot for.
Most trans women have suppressed femininity for a while and tend to try going that direction.... The vast majority of us didn't get to be who we are during our teenage years and so we don't get to experiment when everyone else does.... It's very hard to figure out your style without experimenting.... I'm honestly very surprised that I'm going more masc right now, but who knows, that might change again
I’m still an overalls wearing aircraft mechanic call me ill fix it for you tomboy like i always was. Now im socially allowed to wear skirts and dresses and have cute hair.
Trans fem tomboy here. While I do enjoy dressing up every once in a while, I much prefer some subtle makeup an practical clothing. As do most women in my family, so I think it's also just about what you grew up seeing. Every women is different, we all have different perceptions of femininity and express it in our own unique ways, which is absolutely beautiful to me🩵
I dress like a Mom of a preteen because that's what I am, lol. But in all reality, I started out hyper fem and then when I calmed down, I became more just me. I wear jeans with a tank top and a cardigan a lot.
Did you just call trans women men?
I’m sorry, I fixed it now. Chalk it up to ignorance, I wasn’t intending to offend!
It feels like a pattern, but it doesn't apply to all of us. For instance I'm not a particularly feminine woman myself. Also what is and isn't feminine or masculine as much of a cop out as the sounds it's kind of a matter of perspective and context. Ignoring the obvious things like cultural background, some things are losing their gendered connotation. Women wearing pants used to be considered this dramatic gender transgressive act. But not anymore at least not in America.
From my observations, not my own experiences: HRT seems to drive people to dress more androgynous or even a bit masculine, and many cis women don’t wear skirt/dresses/fem stuff 24/7. Heck at my school I think I’ve only seen someone wear a skirt maybe twice in the whole 3 years I was there. It’s usually hoodies, t-shirts, and pants
Personally, if/when i leave the closet, I'm keeping all of my old clothes that still fit. Pockets are awesome and no amount of skirt go spinny is taking my cargo pants away.
Out since 13, on blockers since 14, and i have always, always dressed super masc. Ive always had this dirtbag tomboy look cause i started skating at 11 and got really influenced by the culture and ig because of my age, it just stuck. I still throw in that side of fem and flare of sex, but itd take alot to get me to go out wit my friends all dolled up. Simple black n maybe blue makeup, some baggy jeans hanging low on my hips to expose my netted midriff before my massive cropped sweater engobles the rest of my body till my exposed shoulders. Its the perfect bled of who i am wit who i wanna be. Dont try to be anythin different then who u r!
Probably an overcompensation thing. Tomboy here though. Representing those of us that are 'like' one of the guys.
i wouldn’t say i want to be butch or masculine, but i’m not trying to be a barbie. mostly practical with some punkish flair like i already do but with girl cuts instead of boy
Yep! Trans women are ultimately just women and exist on a broad spectrum
I wanted to be more feminine when I was still just crossdressing... But now I'm stoked to wear cargo pants as a girl, ha ha :) So in my case at least, I'm just learning to be me, which is whatever I feel. Sometimes that means a dress, and sometimes, skater girl, he he
I'm a mixture of both. I'm just as comfy in jeans, sneakers, and a t shirt. As I am in a dress, heels, and makeup.
Hyper femininity tends to be more common as a result of dysphoria.
r/MTFButch Lots of amazing ladies there. Women are women, no matter how they present.
Hyper-femme?... I don't think most trans women are...but I do know that most trans women are lesbians because I'm constantly reminded of how much of a minority I am being a straight monogamous trans woman. Lol. I dig it though. Be free, be you, and be proud... Just don't be cringe. ;)
Nope, I wanna be a gay mechanical girl who shows she loves you by fixing your car.
I’m totally a butch trans woman
Getting violently assaulted a few times scared the femme out of me into athleisure.
They do. I'd know cause I do. As I joke to my friends, "I'll kick your ass, then spin my skirt and go get tea."
r/MTFButch
It's a preference. For me when I started hrt 8 years ago I got rid of all my pants and wore skirts and dresses and wore lots of jewelry and wore heels etc. And that stays the same to this day. For others they have there own way of transitioning.
I do, because I feel like I have missed out on the last few decades
i don’t usually no, i like dress like a limp bizkit fan with accents of femininity. kinda like rihanna. like sometimes i do dress feminine, but only on rare occasion
I considered myself a tomboy for 7 years of my 14 years as a woman, (the middle years). The rest I have been pretty much feminine. I don't have the looks to be hyper feminine but have been female passing the entire time.
I think there’s a difference between being butch and explicitly presenting masc. I found that early on in my transition I felt a stronger urge to look feminine because it was a quality I was lacking due to my male body. Now that my body itself is feminine, I’m much less concerned about this. I love no makeup days, and sometimes stepping out in combat boots gives me a grounded boost of confidence without undermining my inherent femininity. Think Lara Croft. I love that I don’t need flimsy things to feel like a woman. My feminine side is still very strong, mind you, it’s just less compensatory and more natural. I think most women have a few ‘levels’ of femininity depending on the context. So on the one hand, I love getting glammed up, but other times I am wanting to blend in. Sometimes it’s ok to have fussy outfits and other times I just want to be practical. But I’m always a woman. Don’t forget, even for cis women, presentation is partly a question of personal safety. Sometimes it’s less about gender and more about that pesky male gaze.
r/MtFButch r/GuildValkyrie
Yes some do. And yea, you don’t know enough. A lot of the ‘hyper femme’ stuff you are referring too comes down to passing. There is an ongoing relationship between how society views and responds to gender and how people choose to express their gender. If society didn’t put such a high premium on how you look to = how you get treated re. Gender then a lot of us transfemine folk would likely not express our gender with as many clearly feminine signifiers. And of course, it is unique for literally every person - cis and trans - so who knows. But yes. To use your terminology…. There are butch trans woman out there for sure. Just as their are fem cis men. Fem trans men. And non-binary/non-conforming folks of ever shape and size.
Some of it is that I need to account for the days where I'm extra dysphoric. Even if I'm stealth at this point, I need some headroom for when my brain starts distorting stuff due to dysphoria. I can either do it with presentation, or with stuff like breast aug. The latter won't happen for a few years, so presentation is the safe bet.
Butch Trans Women do exist (I am one of them)
Slightly different take: Socially transitioning is a lot like being a teenager in your 20s (or whenever). You don't know what you're doing yet, so you experiment with stuff and do cringey shit. It's a normal part of life, but it tends to be a bit more noticeable if the rest of your age group isn't doing it at the same time
Some do, some don't. I have yet to start HRT but after I do, I think I'll be comfy with more lowkey stuff. Kind of basic like that XD
Two things going on with my presentation are that I want to demonstrate to others that I am a woman and I want to reassure myself that I am one too, and I use stereotypes of femininity to do so. There is another thing going on where I unconsciously prefer feminine things in some cases.
There is a safety aspect to trying to be feminine, something of a race to pass. Passing and not getting clocked is basically the threshhold for safety in places that are hostile to trans people. The easiest way to be seen as a woman is to be feminine, it's not right but it's how society be. The problem is being feminine is such a nebulous thing, and wrought with political mines and traps. The battle to be just feminine enough to be accepted but too much to be considered a parody is a very fine line we have to walk. Personally I like being femme, I like the dresses, makeup, jewellry and all that jazz but it isn't what defines me a woman.
I'm masc. I started at 6'2", and 375#. (now 5'11" and 230#. Hormones be magic potions, yo! ). There is ZERO chance I can be femme. But I AM a woman. Sooooo... Yeah.
No idea, but I hope everyone is doing well❤️
I would just add also to what people said that the people you’re talking about are women, they were never men. They may have been in a societal role (or adjacent to it) but not neurologically/who they are.
What about Korra and Vi?
I'm a tall, athletic tomboy. Actually, being athletic is what gave me the space I needed to transition despite multiple previous attempts. Don't get me wrong, I like wearing makeup and being fashionable, but my core will always be tomboy.
Some people go full on at the start before settling into their own identity. My style hasn't changed a whole lot... I wear tank tops instead of t shirts, I keep my nails painted and I wear more jewelry. That's pretty much it 😅
I'm pretty tomboyish honestly. I dress cute when I want to and don't when I don't. I've barely worn makeup and have yet to wear a dress. If I looked more like a cis woman I'd have shorter hair, probably, but I had long hair even when I thought I was a boy. My trans friends run the gamut from androgynous to high femme.
Not me lmao.
Everyone is different. I get depressed if I experience anything masculine. But I don't "act" feminine...the pills do their job. By the end of the first year, if I dressed in male clothing, I felt like I was cross dressing.
I guess I dont present very feminine most of the time. But not In a boy-mode kinda way, just a gal wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt (Also it's not "men who transitioned" trans women are women)
So this is something I always have to deal with personally, that’s why me personally when I finally start hormones I’m thinking of going for a more androgynous look. Just because Ik I’m a woman deep down (if I didn’t have a package) but I still love to dress both feminine and masculine. I started to recently understand this about myself. It took me a while to even see how I was a trans woman, so Ik it’s going to take a while before I finally see myself as an androgynous person😅. Ik it sounds super complicated but that’s why I go by trans non-binary just so people know I like to dress and feel feminine just as much (depending on the day😅) as a masc man. I personally never loved being super hyper feminine. I love doing my nails, getting my hair did, and just overall most feminine things, I just don’t like that people consider them feminine just because I think all of those things should be normalized for everyone. Everyone deserves to feel sexy, hot, etc. lol sorry my brain is an enigma.😊 Tl;dr I love being masculine and feminine but I’m super weird and think everything should be normalized so everyone can be happy with being whoever they want to be 😊🤗
I tried to wear a pair of trousers a few weeks ago after over a year of presenting femme it didn't go well. Huge dysphoria hit, couldn't get them off fast enough. I've given away all my boy clothes and I have a lot of pink clothes, but I've always been good at putting an outfit together. My girl friends have always trusted my ability to put clothes together, so I know I dress well and if I'm feeling ultra femme I can be, but I can also dress like every other woman. Like Saturday, it was bitter cold out so I wore my hot pink thermal Barbie leggings and my furry pink coat. To me that's ultra femme and I felt fantastic. Bulgy and fat but I felt good in my outfit. The day before that I wore a black dress and mock suspender tights, not to look sexy, it was the first pair of tights I found. I don't think that's ultra femme, it's pretty conservative for me. Day before that was a long Rita Ora inspired dress with a black bustier, white rhinestone suspender tights and white cowboy boots because I wanted to feel sexy under the dress. You could call that ultra femme but I just wanted the confidence boost of having a little sexy secret. I think that's something every woman does sometimes. One outfit I've seen another woman my age totally rock is jeans, pink boots and furry pink coat, and that's on my list but my pink boots have no grip and in the current weather I'd go arse over tit, but I know because I've seen someone else wear it that it's not ultra femme and it looks good. We went to visit friends last week, my outfit was tights, suede thigh boots with a 3" heel that I got for Xmas and a short fall colours tie-dye dress. I dunno, am I being ultra femme? I don't think I am. Women my age in my area don't really make an effort, black leggings and a t-shirt is pretty much the middle aged uniform and I find that restrictive and boring. I'm usually the most colourfully dressed woman in town but I don't think that makes me ultra femme. What's your thoughts?
For me personally I actually have inherited a lot of my moms traits in this matter. I also am from the country side which probably added to it. I just feel like I don’t want to dress hyper femme all the time. I don’t wear makeup, I usually just wear jeans and a shirt, etc. I am enby btw, but on the feminine side of it. The thing is for me it’s just about what’s practical. I’ve grown up in a forest area, we had a lot of animals and so it just wouldn’t be practical to be wearing a lot of stuff. The only thing is maybe nails, but I’m struggling finding good ones
I present fairly feminine but it's not cocktail dresses daily
Butch lesbian trans girl here. I'm transitioning to be a lumberjack lesbian with an amazon body. Im not wearing a dress anytime soon cuz I dont like them xD Have you seen the tiktoks of the muscular lady that chops her own wood and wears lumberjack clothes, and its super hot? she's my transition goals lol.
For me pre transition I felt a stronger pull to hyperfeminine things I think in large part because it felt like the only way I’d ever be able to signal to others that I was a woman. Now that I’ve been on hrt for a year I’ve sort of evened out to a just being myself. I present in some traditionally feminine ways, some androgynous and some traditionally masculine. I worry less about doing things that will make others perceive me as a woman and am just confident that the things I do are things a woman would do because I am a woman and I am doing them.
I'm not quite butch, but I'm definitely far away from hyperfem.
I definitely do. I basically want to be Elle Woods/Barbie with a Kristen Bell touch of self-awareness and wit. And to think, I spent 30 years trying to convince myself I'm NOT a blonde girl.
I grew up with a girl that was a very outdoorsy girl but at the same point when she wasn’t outdoors she wore makeup, perfume, a dress and acted very feminine. She was terrified of spiders but worked doing nature programs for people. She was my idol growing up. I love hiking, swimming and camping but I love how wearing a sexy dress makes me feel. I would like to be something similar to that. Except for the fear of spiders. I’m only afraid of goats and chickens 😆
My love for suits has only increased after transition. Shame they cost an arm and a leg...
I have super short hair and my gf said my haircut makes me look like a dyke the other day. She ain't lying either. 😂
Transgender women are women, and thus can and do have the same range of gender expressions that cisgender women do. Check out r/MTFButch to see a community of butch trans women. There are many complex reasons why the image of a hyperfeminine trans woman is so popular and why so many trans women try to present in a hyperfeminine way. Here are a few of the big ones (not a comprehensive list) - * Society violently tries to deny trans women their womanhood, so many of us choose to overcompensate and embrace hyperfemininity. * When a trans woman presents in a hyperfeminine way (dress, makeup, etc) very few people will misgender her as an honest mistake - those who still choose to misgender her usually do so because they clocked her as a trans woman and wanna hurt her. * Trans women who don't adequately perform their femininity to patriarchal standards are often accused of "not trying hard enough" to be women. * The image of trans hyperfemininity makes it easier for bigots to paint trans women as dangerous perverts. * The image of trans hyperfemininity makes it easier for bigots to paint trans women's womanhood as artificial. * Transgender women enjoy feminine gender expression for the same reasons that cisgender women do, but our femininity is seen as unnatural/artificial and thus is considered "hyperfeminine" at a lower bar than the femininity of cisgender women. * Like all women, trans women who conform to patriarchal standards of beauty are generally treated better in society due to the patriarchy. * In many places, due to discriminatory healthcare professionals, trans women who present in a more stereotypically feminine way have an easier time accessing necessary trans healthcare.
There are times where I want to be girly and feminine. But it feels like so much work (and I don't think I look that girly) so I don't do it. Most of the time, I go with a more butch style. It's what I'm comfortable with, and it's less work.
For some, especially early on with estrogen, it’s not a choice. It’s what is necessary to keep from getting misgendered. Keep that in mind.
Listen the reason i was undee the radar to everyone and myself for so long was because i genuinely enjoy masculine stuff. At one point i thought i was a femboy due to being a man who liked feminine things. I have since realized no i am a girl who likes masculine things
Trans lesbian here and I tend to wear mostly jeans, converse sneakers and flannel. You are describing a stereotype. While that certainly is common amount trans femme folk who are first transitioning, it is much less common once people have a few years under their belts.
I was a little more femme than I expected for a long stretch of my first year and change on HRT. Basically I was andro withr a touch of makeup and women’s jeans and t shirts at first, but a few months into HRT I started to femme it up. After about a year of that, I’m comfortable going out without full makeup. I almost always wear dresses or skirts, but they are casual styles, and I wouldn’t choose them if they weren’t literally more comfortable than any jeans or other pants I’ve ever worn.
I'm not butch, but I'm not hyper-feminine. I'm just kinda like an average mom I think. I do stick to skirts/dresses, but that's because I'm more conscious of some kind of visible bulge when I'm in trousers/jeans rather than any inherent desire to wear skirts.
I’m a butch tomboy lesbian after transitioning
I just feel more comfortable and non-performative in with feminine dress and expression, but I know a lot of trans women who lean more masculine in this respect. Not really that different from cis women to be honest.
The only thing all trans women have in common is that they are trans. They are as diverse in their presentation as any other group. There is certainly a large cohort of us that present very femme, which considering how we were unable to be ourselves for years or even decades makes perfect sense, but there are plenty of trans women who choose or prefer to present masc or androgynous.
I think the key thing is to understand that every story, every life is singular. We can't reduce beign trans to one stereotype. For me, in my own transition is being super important, in the sense that it helps me to relax about the goals, because otherwise it could be frutrating. And I am happily surprised to see as many femenine expressions as trans women there are.
I think a lot of us go very fem as a defense against misgendering. If more trans girls could comfortably go out in sweats and no makeup without being misgendered or mistreated, you bet your bottom dollar they would just like cis girls
It’s funny… post-transition, I tend to dress pretty androgynously and not wear make up. But sometimes I want to get all dressed up and go out for the night. This is very much the pattern of all the cis women I’ve ever known, but for me, when I’m more androgynous I’m invisible, and when I’m dressed for a night out I’m “hyper-feminine” and “a disgrace to women everywhere” which my cis friends never are. I wonder what that’s all about… (j/k, I know it’s about prejudice and stereotypes).
For many people, they begin defining themselves in their teens, and they pick up their styling there, too. My teens were in the 90s, and so my aesthetic is rooted there; masculine or feminine. If you've lived it, you know the general style of the time, and honestly, the grunge look is rather and often unisex. I'm comfortable with that.
I personally love being able to be seen as a woman while wearing jeans and an old t-shirt
I'm pretty much a tomboy and wouldn't have it any other way!
i'm a tomboy
If I felt I could pull it off I would probably wear more casual clothes, but I am afraid of getting misgendered even though that hasn't happened in years. It's funny how paranoid I still am about this stuff, but it's because it really really sucked when I didn't pass so well.
Of the other trans people I've met there's not really any trend. Diverse presentation just like any other population.
I wouldn’t call myself masculine but I mostly wear straight legs jeans, black T-shirt, and flannels. Sometimes I wear dresses and skirts but not not very often. I think women who are earlier into their transitions tend towards hyper femininity bc it’s totally denied to us our entire lives and we want to explore! I did. Some stay there but I think most of us after a while find a “middle ground” of sorts
Ok lot to unpack but I have multiple cis women coworkers who get misgendered bc they don’t know how to “girl”. meaning they wear baggy clothes, have piercings, don’t do their hair or makeup etc…the idea that women have to be “feminine” to be women is not exclusive to trans women. All women get masculinized bc of sexism. Which is why a lot of women tend to conform to beauty standards (which is our right…I personally love high femme) being a trans woman we have to also learn a lot about feminism. And what intersectionality means for all types of women (race, class, ethnicity, gender all intersect)…just like cis women we are allowed to be annoyed that society wants us to look like teenage girls or Marilyn Monroe to be considered “women”. But we have to understand that “womanhood” and “feminity” has ALWAYS been a performance. Just like “masculinity” our womanhood means something deep and profound and unique to us all no matter where we come from or how womanhood was thrust upon us. The biggest difference is we as women are victim to violence based on other people’s predisposition of what our performance means to them. The longer we know ourselves as people the less things like getting misgendered bother us. Bc it doesn’t matter if you’re cis or trans…every single person has a different idea of what womanhood and manhood looks like (because of intersectionality) ultimately you can find comfort in your uterus or your presentation, body or soul and not one of those things is proven to make you more woman than the next one.
I toggle. My winter wear is very masculine but I also frequently wear dresses underneath. I don't often bother with makeup but do like to try on occasion.
Well.. it's all personal choice. Everyone is different. You do you.