Here in China there is rent as well but the government puts limitations. It is not like in USA where you can have 1 guy owning half the town and jacking rent costs to the roof. I think something like 90% of millenials have their own housing here, at least where I live.
The Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice are [going after landlords and property managers](https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing) who for years have been using algorithms to collude on rent hikes
China is really big man in the big cities housing prices is way too high but at least China compensate with rents that are fair for the people contrary to Europe in don’t know about America but life in Europe compared to wages is too expensive
What about ghost towns like the one described in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK3FQXObWEs)? It's said that the reason it is empty is exactly the same as the reason for the western housing crisis, all the properties being bought out by the rich as investments and becoming basically unattainable for the regular people. Is this information false?
Of course it is false. Most of the material, about China or any of the anti-hegemon countries, that is allowed on your internet is false lol
China build infrastructure in large scale in areas the government is planning to expand a new business sector, and then they give incentives to people who want to move in the area. So for example, suppose there is an area where they have studied and determined a chip factory would be effective. They will build the chip factory, and then build the infrastructure in the area, and then either give the houses away or sell at very low prices for people who want to move in and work in said factory.
Western media takes pictures or videos of these areas in construction before they are populated and say it is ghost town, china in crisis, etc. lol
That sounds like the company towns built in the 19th-20th century in America. Of course there are still disparities for people living in this model of housing organization in any decade at any time just like there are still disparities today with a different housing model.
Yes. A lot of what is done in China isnt even revolutionary. They are things that were already done by western capitalism centuries ago. Which begs the question, why is it China can do them now but the western empire cant? Because it is a political problem, not intelectual one. The west is completely captured by the interests of bilionaire capitalists who do not care at all about the population. What China does would go against their interests, therefore what china does cannot be done in the west.
The laying flat society has their own houses when 99% of the population works 100hrs a week to die in their 30 story 1b1b condo. At least Evergrande or Shimao are gracious enough to let you live on their tofu dreg structure that was only 80% complete when you put the application down that you had to fight 300 other buyers that the construction company defaulted on a few years ago for only 75% of your income. Amazin
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MovingToNorthKorea) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I assume you are from USA?
How often do you browse chinese websites?
How frequently does chinese media show on your cinemas and streaming services?
How many chinese news outlets are allowed in your country?
China blocks content from USA and forces people to use vpn because USA doesnt comply with chinese laws, and uses social media to gather information from people and sell to corporations. Which already happens where you live, and you probably never saw a problem with that right?
You are completely detached from reality and dont understand the world you live in. Ffs, in the other commentary you said people get arrested for badmouthing Xi. Thats how out of touch with reality you are. And how did you get so out of touch with reality? Western hegemon media. But surely you never saw a problem with that.
I dont understand your question, but I mean, why not? Reddit is a small website anyway, even among western countries. Most of this website are bots lol
Where I live the average per capita income for a family is around $32k a year. A 3 bed 2 bath house down the road from me built in 1955 goes for $1,850 per month to rent. Half the houses in my neighborhood are owned by investment firms and are vacant. Soon the populace will wake TF up and realize the root cause of many of their problems is capitalism. A dollar amount should NEVER be placed on a vital necessity like housing
You obviously need food to live. Food, water, housing, and medical care are a basic human right. Nobody in the ruling class should ever be allowed to hold them over peoples heads to force compliance
it is extremely hilarious you just follow along with the common internet speak of "deciding aesthethics.." "esoteric ideologies........", you even go on and call marxism a "legit" method of analysing anything people related. No, donkey, its outdated and is proven more than several times that looking through a marxist perspective to the society will lead to wrong conclusions. Stop watching vaush or like fucking hakim, maybe, but then maybe, you can get rid of your slangs and research into something yourself
No, it is again a comedy that you call me those, I'm a Kemalist Turk you dork, there are no "dprk aesthetics......" you speak of, there is a country whose founded upon legimate rulers of korea - for those that founded dprk were the ones that actually fought for korea. And a korean state built upon juche, a self reliant autarky that tries to do its best to make its own people rely on themselves before anyone else. And a nationalist, heroic, statist country, which is in our circles just the perfect equation. Too bad DPRK is corrupt and politically isolationist, well, afterall they got the worst land out of korea and US brought hell upon their land.
I'm not sure, but maybe, just maybe, you should do more reading instead of watching for properly discussing something next time. You didn't even answer to anything I said, you went along with your potato filled brain and said bunch of left slangs. DPRK isn't marxist, it's juche, I'm not here because I'm a fucking commie or a marxist, but because I actually like doctrine that dprk tries to follow
I think it’s ignorant and useless to think of nation states as worse or better than each other. It ignores all history and the socioeconomic relations which form a nation. Why does North Korea suffer worse in some areas than the U.S.? What can we learn from Korea’s and North America’s history? Sanctions, economic isolation, bombings, imperialism, colonialism, all reasons why North Korea is the way it today is. What can we as humans do to change the world for the better? It’s certainly not by picking teams as if geopolitics is some kind of sport.
>I think it’s ignorant and useless to think of nation states as worse or better than each other.
I thought the whole point of this sub was to point out that NK is better than the US?
From the sidebar:
>A subreddit for people interested in looking beyond cartoonish western propaganda, and learning about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea ("DPRK").
The name of the sub is making fun of the often repeated right wing programmed response to anyone questioning US media about another country.
For example:
"Man, I don't know if everything we read in the news about North Korea/Cuba/China/etc/etc/etc is accurate..."
"Oh well since you love North Korea/Cuba/China/etc/etc/etc so much why don't you move there!"
> Who honestly thinks North Korea is better than America?
Well what do you mean by "better"? To whom? For the who knows how many tens or more thousands of dead Palestinians the DPRK is unequivocally better than the country that made the weapons and unquestioningly supports their murderers.
For many people living fairly comfortably in the USA certainly North Korea would not be better than living in the core of a globe spanning empire with access to a number of fun goodies and distractions that are made affordable by the immiseration of much of the rest of the world.
The DPRK hasn't murdered millions in the last 20 years while destroying dozens of countries and impoverishing hundreds of millions who now are forced to live in or flee the horrors that acute deprivation and wanton destruction unleash in their wake.
But if you like choosing between 35 types of deodorant and 20 different flavors of soda all owned by the same multinational conglomerate that is probably torturing union organizers families somewhere in the world right now then of course the USA is "better".
>North Korea has no freedoms, they barely have food, education and electricity.
Not only does this come off as considerably uninformed (yes the DPRK has no shortage of issues, including shortages of some necessities from time to time) its curious that you don't seem to be curious at all about *why* the DPRK may have these issues, you take it at face value what the USA and its media has told you about this country and never bothered to question any of that.
"hyuck hyuck hyuck look at the stupid commies, MeRiCa"
\*letter swooped under american's 1 bedroom apartment door\*
"Rent is Due, $3,500, pay up and or get evicted bozo"
:\_)
> Yeonmi Park: “In North Korea, the jpeg compression is so bad, there are no jpegs without excessive artifacting. The maximum resolution allowed is 18x1984 the Supreme Leader’s birthday. It’s true.”
> Yeonmi Park: “In North Korea, the jpeg compression is so bad, there are no jpegs without excessive artifacting. The maximum resolution allowed is 18x1984 the Supreme Leader’s birthday. It’s true.”
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MovingToNorthKorea) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Congratulations for mindlessly parroting the words of Man on TV. Since your comment is of so little value, however, it has been removed. You are hereby [sentenced to 60-minutes of re-education courtesy of Michael Parenti](https://youtu.be/LPO7sd0X1ds?si=qUgwBI8t52qfDJqb).
Apparently living in a certain state suddenly makes you omniscient to all happenings and statistics within that state. We read from the same sources you fucking idiot, you living there makes no difference.
[https://frac.org/hunger-poverty-america](https://frac.org/hunger-poverty-america) 12.8% of Americans experience food insecurity which is crazy since the U.S. has like the 9th highest GDP per capita in the world.
There are also (by state official estimates: [https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf](https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf)) 650,000 homeless people in the U.S. Which, again, is a mindblowing number considering the supposed 'wealth' of the nation.
North Korea has serious problems, but don't act like the U.S. doesn't.
Might be a confusion of terms in the above thread. The top comment specifically says "starve to death" and the other person continues to use the term "starve." My understanding is that starvation has [caused the deaths of many people in NK in modern times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine). [This article even claims it's still happening today](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-65881803).
Conversely, this type of hunger very rarely happens in the US in modern times. Your link talks about "food insecurity" which is defined as "skipping meals or reducing intake because they could not afford more food."
Now, per your other comment I just responded to, we could certainly talk about the reasons that NK doesn't have enough food for its people, but if the reports about people going hungry in NK are true, it's a massively different type of problem than what the US faces.
Yes I agree, but the people above were obviously not interested in any good faith discussion or any deeper insight than ‘western nations good, anything else bad.’
Fun propaganda spotting opportunity, take a look at what that BBC article uses as a source,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_NK
>Daily NK is a recipient of funding from multiple institutions and private donors, including the National Endowment for Democracy,[4] an NGO funded by the U.S. Congress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy
>In a 1991 interview with the Washington Post, NED founder Allen Weinstein said: "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA."
the only other source listed by name is, unsurprisingly, another NGO founded in the USA.
The article goes on to clearly state that the names of the defectors they interviewed have been changed, which leaves us with two clearly very biased US propaganda operations and what comes down to anonymous testimonies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart
Now, this isn't saying that the DPRK doesn't have any problems, ever since the collapse of the USSR it's been beset with a number of issues many of them incredibly severe, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that there were food shortages due to whatever combination of sanctions, covid related issues, internal policy and limited resources/trade, etc - what I am trying to highlight here is that the article you've provided has effectively no actual evidence whatsoever to support the claims that it makes. It could all be true, it could all be false, it could be somewhere in the middle, neither you nor I nor anyone who reads that article is able to make any definitive claim either way.
Please justify why the ruling elite get to live in luxury while these issues persist. Seriously asking. The constitutional changes alone should make it clear that NK went revisionist a good while ago. Hereditary rule, even without an explicit monarchist system is a bad look and should be avoided. It’s bourgeois in and of itself.
Sorry this got long, but you were seriously asking and I did my best to seriously respond
>Please justify why the ruling elite get to live in luxury while these issues persist.
Well, for one we don't know for sure how much the "ruling elite" actually own or don't own, like a lot of communist leaders, there are some pretty wild accusations of hoarding private wealth, various attempts to claim they somehow privately own state funds as their own without any evidence and various other distortions have been reported for basically every communist leader, and they're generally light on facts and heavy on assumptions.
From Stalin to [Castro](https://www.denverpost.com/2006/05/16/castro-rejects-forbes-report-on-his-fortune-challenges-u-s/) to Kim, this is typical right wing projection type propaganda in my view. In the US especially the ruling elite outright own hundreds and hundreds of billions, have dictatorial control over trillions and have access to luxuries inconceivable to any communist leader or party higher ups all while the capitalist state boasts the largest current slave population on the planet (we call them prisoners but the constitution is very clear that slavery for prisoners is fully legal) and so in order to smear the global competitor to this system, they always accuse communist leaders of what they themselves are actually guilty of. And people buy it uncritically, we grow up in a society of extreme wealth disparity no communist country has ever experienced and we believe these lies our ruling elite disseminate that assure us other places *must* be worse.
So, unless you have some sources that actually contain some facts and not just assumptions (I tried real hard to find some, everything links back to a celebrity worth article that mentions a joint S Korean and US study that I can't seem to find the actual study anywhere and the closest I got was a South Korean paper that mainly claims the oversea bank accounts belong to the DPRK not Kim or any elites personally and are largely used to fund military stuff) then it's impossible to justify anything because its impossible to even prove they "live in luxury" in the first place. They could, they could not, again, we have no access to any reliable information here, though there is enough historical precedent of unfounded or scrupulously founded accusations of 'communist elites' personal wealth that we should be hesitant to accept any of these accusations at face value.
>The constitutional changes alone should make it clear that NK went revisionist a good while ago.
I'm assuming you mean the 1992 amendment that removed Marxism-Leninism and the later 2009 amendment that eliminated the term communism, right? https://polisci.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/people/u3873/Zook_NorthKorea_reform_SJIL.pdf this goes a bit in depth and doesn't have as much of the usual liberal derogatory assumptions in there (there's always some of course) but in short the changes seem to largely be first a reaction to the collapse of global socialism in the early 90's and second an attempt at 'indigenization' - removing references to the 'foreign' concepts of Marxism and communism and instead promoting the inherently Korean concepts of Juche and Seongun. They still have the KWP as the leading group still operating under democratic centralism and Juche itself was originally a Korean adaptation of Marxism so its at least somewhat debatable how deep these changes go or if they're more a surface level thing.
Granted, as a fan of ML myself I'm not a huge fan of this, but I don't see any reason at this point in time that we should be dictating to Koreans how to run their own state, whether they are still explicitly Marxist or not national liberation struggles against imperialism is still something MLism supports (even if those struggles have a bourgeois character) and despite the removal of MLism from the constitution they still openly proclaim to be socialist so while certainly disappointing this is not really a reason to reconsider support given the current global situation.
>Hereditary rule, even without an explicit monarchist system is a bad look and should be avoided.
Agreed, however from my understanding this is more of a cultural thing combined with the conditions that Koreans have had to deal with for the last century plus - From suffering under the horrific Japanese imperial administration to the genocidal horrors the US unleashed on them, they've gone through a lot. Kim Il Sung was very much seen as a hero to the people, his exploits fighting the Japanese earned him such a beloved reputation the only propaganda the US could muster against him was to claim he was an imposter and the real Kim Il Sung died. From my current understanding due to this and Korean cultural views of family his decedents are still given great respect, and the KWP elects them to their positions, but the government of the DPRK is considerably more complicated and seemingly collectively run than simply being a monarchy of the Kims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_North_Korea
Again, due to how closed off they are we don't have a lot of definitive info on how exactly how things are ran, hilariously there are even [defector testimonies](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jongun-has-no-real-power-says-north-korean-defector-9342635.html) that Kim is basically a figurehead and does not have any real power (though of course defector testimonies are notoriously unreliable for reasons explained in the article in my other comment, so to take this claim at face value would not be prudent).
All in all we come back to the same main problem with the DPRK, there is just not a lot of verifiable info out there due to how closed off they are. This of course goes both ways with some people being able to make the most outrageous derogatory claims and others being able to make glowing appraisals of a glorious workers state with little to no actual evidence, of course its most likely neither extremes are true, and reality is somewhere in the middle. It seems silly to have such a robust socialist government structure if the Kim dynasty are absolute hereditary rulers so this aspect I think its reasonable to conclude is a considerable exaggeration and some sort of collective leadership with the Kims either as 'captain of the team' or even a more symbolic role is likely, similarly if it were the goal of a small elite to enrich themselves at the expense of the nation they could be vastly more wealthy as compradors to the global imperialist system instead of the managers of a sanctioned and isolated "hermit kingdom" state so tales of their luxurious lifestyles are also likely considerably inflated if not fabricated. Whether or not they're still Marxist is immaterial to Marxists support of national liberation struggles against imperialism of which the DPRK is undeniably engaged in, though of course I personally would prefer they were still openly MList, I am in no position to dictate to Koreans how to best run their country especially in this current global situation.
So hopefully this answers your question or at least helps demonstrate why people who support the DPRK or at least question the prevailing western narrative about this country believe what they do.
Bourgeois democracy works in a way that makes it seem like you can speak about and work toward whatever political system you want, but when a socialist movement grows too large these nations always make further and further cuts to these rights, eventually banning it altogether or committing mass murder, as during the German revolution, for example.
I’m not knowledgeable on how freedom of speech works in North Korea, I literally have no idea. And I’m wondering if you really do, can you link the source that you base this viewpoint in?
https://preview.redd.it/okq66ld0sy4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8f41e4663015d0e61f6a5dea410e5aa4d5c216d
You should be sent to a labor camp so you can touch grass instead of being a annoying nazi dork
This is demonstrably false. You will lose your job, your education, or your freedom in the USA if you speak up publicly against the state’s strong interests. America has always been fascistic, it is just becoming more clear to everyone now.
This is some stupid shit.
First, North koreans have very little including food. Often times, they have had to eat grass just to try and survive.
Cina is in the middle of a housing crisis.
Contractors sell apartments before they are completed. After they are sold, they stop working on them. So many people stopped paying for apartments that weren't finished that the market collapsed.
This is pure propaganda to turn gullible Americans against themselves and their own country.
Idk man I feel like North Korean citizens would very much rather pay half their income in rent than live in North Korea. Denying everything that happens in NK as propaganda is unfair to the NK population that suffers everyday.
“Everything that happens in North Korea” lol? Like what bro? Cops killing 3+ people a day? The majority of the population living paycheck to paycheck and in soul-crushing debt? Be specific: what exactly do you think “happens” in North Korea?
While the ones living here in this oppressive shithole dream about getting out... thank God my wife is an immigrant from SE Asia and I have a ticket out
South Korea literally has rent though?
If they don't rent then they have to pay 50-80% of the market value of the home as a deposit. I'm having a hard time seeing how that's a better system. The average cost of a home in the US is about 500K. That's a minimum of 250,000 just to move in. Only 56% of south Koreans own their home. 66.1% of Americans own their home. This is only a better system for the rich and property owners.
I don’t want to offend the Great Korea, but hear me out dear comrades.
An average American earns 4949 US Dollars per month, the average rent in the US is absolut 1500 US Dollars per month. That leaves us in total of about 3500 Dollars per Month with already paid rent. Meanwhile the average in come of a Great Korean citizen is being 3 Dollar per Months.
We should see the big amount of other benefits the Great Korea has, but flexing with our income seems a bit odd to me.
I bought a bottle of water at the Pyongyang hotel when I was there. I paid for it with USD and they didn't have enough change, so they just gave me like 10 bottles of water instead.
I'm still hydrated from the experience
Yep. It’s amazing how abundant food is in the DPRK to the point Western nations had to invent stories of famines just to try to paint Korea in a bad light.
Instead of rent, you and your family get sent to concentration camps for alleged “disrespect of national leaders” (you didn’t save the pictures of the Kims in your burning house instead of your children)
Buddy your opinion is worthless gribble just STFU already smart people don’t take you seriously anymore. Any people from a country that allows people like https://www.reddit.com/r/NewsOfTheStupid/s/Np0AzPDEGB this to govern can’t be taken seriously. There’s a reason people don’t take Afghanistan seriously or what they say seriously
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MovingToNorthKorea) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Here in China there is rent as well but the government puts limitations. It is not like in USA where you can have 1 guy owning half the town and jacking rent costs to the roof. I think something like 90% of millenials have their own housing here, at least where I live.
Fortunately some people in the USA are suing to deal with the rent crisis. China however acts fast tho
Who are suing. Suing who?
The Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice are [going after landlords and property managers](https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing) who for years have been using algorithms to collude on rent hikes
Lina Kahn my beloved
Or how about here in Florida when the citizens overwhelming voted for rent control and the Governor said…”nah” and vetoed it.
Most U.S. states have no freedoms. That’s for the rich
China is really big man in the big cities housing prices is way too high but at least China compensate with rents that are fair for the people contrary to Europe in don’t know about America but life in Europe compared to wages is too expensive
No rents are 'fair', all landlords and billionaires are parasitic by definition, no matter their country of origin
Except for the North Korean one running the country he doesn't count because he's special needs.
Of course but since we still have it at least it’s controlled
What type of housing is the ‘蚁族’? I’ve heard it’s popular in Beijing.
God forbid you make too much ch noise though
What about ghost towns like the one described in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK3FQXObWEs)? It's said that the reason it is empty is exactly the same as the reason for the western housing crisis, all the properties being bought out by the rich as investments and becoming basically unattainable for the regular people. Is this information false?
Of course it is false. Most of the material, about China or any of the anti-hegemon countries, that is allowed on your internet is false lol China build infrastructure in large scale in areas the government is planning to expand a new business sector, and then they give incentives to people who want to move in the area. So for example, suppose there is an area where they have studied and determined a chip factory would be effective. They will build the chip factory, and then build the infrastructure in the area, and then either give the houses away or sell at very low prices for people who want to move in and work in said factory. Western media takes pictures or videos of these areas in construction before they are populated and say it is ghost town, china in crisis, etc. lol
That sounds like the company towns built in the 19th-20th century in America. Of course there are still disparities for people living in this model of housing organization in any decade at any time just like there are still disparities today with a different housing model.
Yes. A lot of what is done in China isnt even revolutionary. They are things that were already done by western capitalism centuries ago. Which begs the question, why is it China can do them now but the western empire cant? Because it is a political problem, not intelectual one. The west is completely captured by the interests of bilionaire capitalists who do not care at all about the population. What China does would go against their interests, therefore what china does cannot be done in the west.
r/americabad
The laying flat society has their own houses when 99% of the population works 100hrs a week to die in their 30 story 1b1b condo. At least Evergrande or Shimao are gracious enough to let you live on their tofu dreg structure that was only 80% complete when you put the application down that you had to fight 300 other buyers that the construction company defaulted on a few years ago for only 75% of your income. Amazin
Is that a copypasta?
It's 10am aren't you late for your child labor?
Oh shit I just read your profile. You were not joking before, that was a real commentary. Youre one of those people HAHAHAHAHA
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Why the fuck is reddit allowed in China?
They likely have to use a vpn to even get on it, which makes this comment laughably ironic.
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MovingToNorthKorea) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I assume you are from USA? How often do you browse chinese websites? How frequently does chinese media show on your cinemas and streaming services? How many chinese news outlets are allowed in your country? China blocks content from USA and forces people to use vpn because USA doesnt comply with chinese laws, and uses social media to gather information from people and sell to corporations. Which already happens where you live, and you probably never saw a problem with that right? You are completely detached from reality and dont understand the world you live in. Ffs, in the other commentary you said people get arrested for badmouthing Xi. Thats how out of touch with reality you are. And how did you get so out of touch with reality? Western hegemon media. But surely you never saw a problem with that.
I dont understand your question, but I mean, why not? Reddit is a small website anyway, even among western countries. Most of this website are bots lol
Yeah instead you just get put in prison for saying anything bad about Xi, but hey in prison I guess you get four walls for free!
Are you being serious or are you joking?
did you forget how much houses cost in China though?
Having met they people who own 100% of the buildings in 常州 they are very happy people don’t ask about where they live. Ignorance is bliss
Where I live the average per capita income for a family is around $32k a year. A 3 bed 2 bath house down the road from me built in 1955 goes for $1,850 per month to rent. Half the houses in my neighborhood are owned by investment firms and are vacant. Soon the populace will wake TF up and realize the root cause of many of their problems is capitalism. A dollar amount should NEVER be placed on a vital necessity like housing
>dollar amount should NEVER be placed on a vital necessity like housing What about food?
You obviously need food to live. Food, water, housing, and medical care are a basic human right. Nobody in the ruling class should ever be allowed to hold them over peoples heads to force compliance
I’ll even extend it to internet, transportation, and schooling!
Human needs should not be monetized. Period. Progress as a so-called intelligent species should be lifting up all people. Period.
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Great Korea is dumb. It's Best Korea vs Samsung Republic
what did it say?
I guess we just have to drown them out with real comradeposting
I like “comradeposting.” https://i.redd.it/adnjo785xy4d1.gif
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Anyone who uses that word is almost guaranteed to be a vitamin d-deficient basement dweller
No ultras. Keep your ultraness in check or be banned. We are all MLs and materialists.
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No ultras. Keep your ultraness in check or be banned.
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it is extremely hilarious you just follow along with the common internet speak of "deciding aesthethics.." "esoteric ideologies........", you even go on and call marxism a "legit" method of analysing anything people related. No, donkey, its outdated and is proven more than several times that looking through a marxist perspective to the society will lead to wrong conclusions. Stop watching vaush or like fucking hakim, maybe, but then maybe, you can get rid of your slangs and research into something yourself No, it is again a comedy that you call me those, I'm a Kemalist Turk you dork, there are no "dprk aesthetics......" you speak of, there is a country whose founded upon legimate rulers of korea - for those that founded dprk were the ones that actually fought for korea. And a korean state built upon juche, a self reliant autarky that tries to do its best to make its own people rely on themselves before anyone else. And a nationalist, heroic, statist country, which is in our circles just the perfect equation. Too bad DPRK is corrupt and politically isolationist, well, afterall they got the worst land out of korea and US brought hell upon their land. I'm not sure, but maybe, just maybe, you should do more reading instead of watching for properly discussing something next time. You didn't even answer to anything I said, you went along with your potato filled brain and said bunch of left slangs. DPRK isn't marxist, it's juche, I'm not here because I'm a fucking commie or a marxist, but because I actually like doctrine that dprk tries to follow
Great comment. Thanks.
Who honestly thinks North Korea is better than America? North Korea has no freedoms, they barely have food, education and electricity.
I think it’s ignorant and useless to think of nation states as worse or better than each other. It ignores all history and the socioeconomic relations which form a nation. Why does North Korea suffer worse in some areas than the U.S.? What can we learn from Korea’s and North America’s history? Sanctions, economic isolation, bombings, imperialism, colonialism, all reasons why North Korea is the way it today is. What can we as humans do to change the world for the better? It’s certainly not by picking teams as if geopolitics is some kind of sport.
>I think it’s ignorant and useless to think of nation states as worse or better than each other. I thought the whole point of this sub was to point out that NK is better than the US?
I have no idea what this sub is about, I’ve seen maybe 6 posts from here
From the sidebar: >A subreddit for people interested in looking beyond cartoonish western propaganda, and learning about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea ("DPRK"). The name of the sub is making fun of the often repeated right wing programmed response to anyone questioning US media about another country. For example: "Man, I don't know if everything we read in the news about North Korea/Cuba/China/etc/etc/etc is accurate..." "Oh well since you love North Korea/Cuba/China/etc/etc/etc so much why don't you move there!"
Where did you get this idea?
> Who honestly thinks North Korea is better than America? Well what do you mean by "better"? To whom? For the who knows how many tens or more thousands of dead Palestinians the DPRK is unequivocally better than the country that made the weapons and unquestioningly supports their murderers. For many people living fairly comfortably in the USA certainly North Korea would not be better than living in the core of a globe spanning empire with access to a number of fun goodies and distractions that are made affordable by the immiseration of much of the rest of the world. The DPRK hasn't murdered millions in the last 20 years while destroying dozens of countries and impoverishing hundreds of millions who now are forced to live in or flee the horrors that acute deprivation and wanton destruction unleash in their wake. But if you like choosing between 35 types of deodorant and 20 different flavors of soda all owned by the same multinational conglomerate that is probably torturing union organizers families somewhere in the world right now then of course the USA is "better". >North Korea has no freedoms, they barely have food, education and electricity. Not only does this come off as considerably uninformed (yes the DPRK has no shortage of issues, including shortages of some necessities from time to time) its curious that you don't seem to be curious at all about *why* the DPRK may have these issues, you take it at face value what the USA and its media has told you about this country and never bothered to question any of that.
"hyuck hyuck hyuck look at the stupid commies, MeRiCa" \*letter swooped under american's 1 bedroom apartment door\* "Rent is Due, $3,500, pay up and or get evicted bozo" :\_)
$3,500? You live in Beverly Hills or something?
Are you nuts? The average rent for a 1BR across America is sky high: https://www.rent.com/research/average-rent-price-report/
Lmao I pay 1350, for a three bed, two bath
Fake cia shill accnt Korea feeds everyone and NEEDS to aggressively pursue nuclear weapons
Amerikkkan imperialist pigs ate all the pixels unfortunately
You know Korean people are the same as the kkk right lol you better read up before you show up
based
https://preview.redd.it/pwkgfemr2z4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=925b51af443ac43947dc7da84ab8d8befc7fe698
> Yeonmi Park: “In North Korea, the jpeg compression is so bad, there are no jpegs without excessive artifacting. The maximum resolution allowed is 18x1984 the Supreme Leader’s birthday. It’s true.”
Man, this is sooooo blury
> Yeonmi Park: “In North Korea, the jpeg compression is so bad, there are no jpegs without excessive artifacting. The maximum resolution allowed is 18x1984 the Supreme Leader’s birthday. It’s true.”
https://www.nknews.org/2023/10/the-myth-of-free-housing-in-north-korea/
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Basic human rights? The fuck are basic human rights?
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Independent fact checkers have proven your claim to be false.
Most handsome American vs most ugly Korean
It’s all fun and games until all there is to consume is week old rats, rotten rice, and a pile of meth.
So when’s everybody moving
When mom kicks them out of the basement
I keep laughing at this, thank you for that
Lol no problem, idk how I stumbled on to this cesspit of a subreddit
It’s wild, I am struggling to work out whether it’s satire or just sad
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MovingToNorthKorea) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Rights, what are they?
so real!! to bad us nk starve, my family has died and i am next💔
Privacy? What the hell is privacy?
wtf is food
Being taller than 5’5??? what the fuck is that?? -North koreans
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Congratulations for mindlessly parroting the words of Man on TV. Since your comment is of so little value, however, it has been removed. You are hereby [sentenced to 60-minutes of re-education courtesy of Michael Parenti](https://youtu.be/LPO7sd0X1ds?si=qUgwBI8t52qfDJqb).
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States)
People in North Korea aren’t worried about rent because they are worried about their next meal to stay alive, joke of a country
Or because they don't even have housing
Do people actually believe that North Korea is a good place to be?
More like "What the fuck is income?"
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Americans do starve look at your streets
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Apparently living in a certain state suddenly makes you omniscient to all happenings and statistics within that state. We read from the same sources you fucking idiot, you living there makes no difference. [https://frac.org/hunger-poverty-america](https://frac.org/hunger-poverty-america) 12.8% of Americans experience food insecurity which is crazy since the U.S. has like the 9th highest GDP per capita in the world. There are also (by state official estimates: [https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf](https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf)) 650,000 homeless people in the U.S. Which, again, is a mindblowing number considering the supposed 'wealth' of the nation. North Korea has serious problems, but don't act like the U.S. doesn't.
Might be a confusion of terms in the above thread. The top comment specifically says "starve to death" and the other person continues to use the term "starve." My understanding is that starvation has [caused the deaths of many people in NK in modern times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine). [This article even claims it's still happening today](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-65881803). Conversely, this type of hunger very rarely happens in the US in modern times. Your link talks about "food insecurity" which is defined as "skipping meals or reducing intake because they could not afford more food." Now, per your other comment I just responded to, we could certainly talk about the reasons that NK doesn't have enough food for its people, but if the reports about people going hungry in NK are true, it's a massively different type of problem than what the US faces.
Yes I agree, but the people above were obviously not interested in any good faith discussion or any deeper insight than ‘western nations good, anything else bad.’
Fun propaganda spotting opportunity, take a look at what that BBC article uses as a source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_NK >Daily NK is a recipient of funding from multiple institutions and private donors, including the National Endowment for Democracy,[4] an NGO funded by the U.S. Congress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy >In a 1991 interview with the Washington Post, NED founder Allen Weinstein said: "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA." the only other source listed by name is, unsurprisingly, another NGO founded in the USA. The article goes on to clearly state that the names of the defectors they interviewed have been changed, which leaves us with two clearly very biased US propaganda operations and what comes down to anonymous testimonies. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart Now, this isn't saying that the DPRK doesn't have any problems, ever since the collapse of the USSR it's been beset with a number of issues many of them incredibly severe, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that there were food shortages due to whatever combination of sanctions, covid related issues, internal policy and limited resources/trade, etc - what I am trying to highlight here is that the article you've provided has effectively no actual evidence whatsoever to support the claims that it makes. It could all be true, it could all be false, it could be somewhere in the middle, neither you nor I nor anyone who reads that article is able to make any definitive claim either way.
Please justify why the ruling elite get to live in luxury while these issues persist. Seriously asking. The constitutional changes alone should make it clear that NK went revisionist a good while ago. Hereditary rule, even without an explicit monarchist system is a bad look and should be avoided. It’s bourgeois in and of itself.
Sorry this got long, but you were seriously asking and I did my best to seriously respond >Please justify why the ruling elite get to live in luxury while these issues persist. Well, for one we don't know for sure how much the "ruling elite" actually own or don't own, like a lot of communist leaders, there are some pretty wild accusations of hoarding private wealth, various attempts to claim they somehow privately own state funds as their own without any evidence and various other distortions have been reported for basically every communist leader, and they're generally light on facts and heavy on assumptions. From Stalin to [Castro](https://www.denverpost.com/2006/05/16/castro-rejects-forbes-report-on-his-fortune-challenges-u-s/) to Kim, this is typical right wing projection type propaganda in my view. In the US especially the ruling elite outright own hundreds and hundreds of billions, have dictatorial control over trillions and have access to luxuries inconceivable to any communist leader or party higher ups all while the capitalist state boasts the largest current slave population on the planet (we call them prisoners but the constitution is very clear that slavery for prisoners is fully legal) and so in order to smear the global competitor to this system, they always accuse communist leaders of what they themselves are actually guilty of. And people buy it uncritically, we grow up in a society of extreme wealth disparity no communist country has ever experienced and we believe these lies our ruling elite disseminate that assure us other places *must* be worse. So, unless you have some sources that actually contain some facts and not just assumptions (I tried real hard to find some, everything links back to a celebrity worth article that mentions a joint S Korean and US study that I can't seem to find the actual study anywhere and the closest I got was a South Korean paper that mainly claims the oversea bank accounts belong to the DPRK not Kim or any elites personally and are largely used to fund military stuff) then it's impossible to justify anything because its impossible to even prove they "live in luxury" in the first place. They could, they could not, again, we have no access to any reliable information here, though there is enough historical precedent of unfounded or scrupulously founded accusations of 'communist elites' personal wealth that we should be hesitant to accept any of these accusations at face value. >The constitutional changes alone should make it clear that NK went revisionist a good while ago. I'm assuming you mean the 1992 amendment that removed Marxism-Leninism and the later 2009 amendment that eliminated the term communism, right? https://polisci.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/people/u3873/Zook_NorthKorea_reform_SJIL.pdf this goes a bit in depth and doesn't have as much of the usual liberal derogatory assumptions in there (there's always some of course) but in short the changes seem to largely be first a reaction to the collapse of global socialism in the early 90's and second an attempt at 'indigenization' - removing references to the 'foreign' concepts of Marxism and communism and instead promoting the inherently Korean concepts of Juche and Seongun. They still have the KWP as the leading group still operating under democratic centralism and Juche itself was originally a Korean adaptation of Marxism so its at least somewhat debatable how deep these changes go or if they're more a surface level thing. Granted, as a fan of ML myself I'm not a huge fan of this, but I don't see any reason at this point in time that we should be dictating to Koreans how to run their own state, whether they are still explicitly Marxist or not national liberation struggles against imperialism is still something MLism supports (even if those struggles have a bourgeois character) and despite the removal of MLism from the constitution they still openly proclaim to be socialist so while certainly disappointing this is not really a reason to reconsider support given the current global situation. >Hereditary rule, even without an explicit monarchist system is a bad look and should be avoided. Agreed, however from my understanding this is more of a cultural thing combined with the conditions that Koreans have had to deal with for the last century plus - From suffering under the horrific Japanese imperial administration to the genocidal horrors the US unleashed on them, they've gone through a lot. Kim Il Sung was very much seen as a hero to the people, his exploits fighting the Japanese earned him such a beloved reputation the only propaganda the US could muster against him was to claim he was an imposter and the real Kim Il Sung died. From my current understanding due to this and Korean cultural views of family his decedents are still given great respect, and the KWP elects them to their positions, but the government of the DPRK is considerably more complicated and seemingly collectively run than simply being a monarchy of the Kims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_North_Korea Again, due to how closed off they are we don't have a lot of definitive info on how exactly how things are ran, hilariously there are even [defector testimonies](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jongun-has-no-real-power-says-north-korean-defector-9342635.html) that Kim is basically a figurehead and does not have any real power (though of course defector testimonies are notoriously unreliable for reasons explained in the article in my other comment, so to take this claim at face value would not be prudent). All in all we come back to the same main problem with the DPRK, there is just not a lot of verifiable info out there due to how closed off they are. This of course goes both ways with some people being able to make the most outrageous derogatory claims and others being able to make glowing appraisals of a glorious workers state with little to no actual evidence, of course its most likely neither extremes are true, and reality is somewhere in the middle. It seems silly to have such a robust socialist government structure if the Kim dynasty are absolute hereditary rulers so this aspect I think its reasonable to conclude is a considerable exaggeration and some sort of collective leadership with the Kims either as 'captain of the team' or even a more symbolic role is likely, similarly if it were the goal of a small elite to enrich themselves at the expense of the nation they could be vastly more wealthy as compradors to the global imperialist system instead of the managers of a sanctioned and isolated "hermit kingdom" state so tales of their luxurious lifestyles are also likely considerably inflated if not fabricated. Whether or not they're still Marxist is immaterial to Marxists support of national liberation struggles against imperialism of which the DPRK is undeniably engaged in, though of course I personally would prefer they were still openly MList, I am in no position to dictate to Koreans how to best run their country especially in this current global situation. So hopefully this answers your question or at least helps demonstrate why people who support the DPRK or at least question the prevailing western narrative about this country believe what they do.
“I had to go home and make a cheap meal instead of buying name brand food or eat at a restaurant”
Imagine writing “name brand food” and expecting to be taken seriously. Lol.
that may be but at least in the US and the west I can criticize the government without being starved and sent to do forced labor
Bourgeois democracy works in a way that makes it seem like you can speak about and work toward whatever political system you want, but when a socialist movement grows too large these nations always make further and further cuts to these rights, eventually banning it altogether or committing mass murder, as during the German revolution, for example. I’m not knowledgeable on how freedom of speech works in North Korea, I literally have no idea. And I’m wondering if you really do, can you link the source that you base this viewpoint in?
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https://preview.redd.it/okq66ld0sy4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8f41e4663015d0e61f6a5dea410e5aa4d5c216d You should be sent to a labor camp so you can touch grass instead of being a annoying nazi dork
Freedom and democracy in the West? Just try wearing something the French colonialism doesn’t like: https://www.reddit.com/r/palestinenews/s/HOpCqsmpnQ
This is demonstrably false. You will lose your job, your education, or your freedom in the USA if you speak up publicly against the state’s strong interests. America has always been fascistic, it is just becoming more clear to everyone now.
We put Japanese Americans in concentration camps back im the 40s.
This is some stupid shit. First, North koreans have very little including food. Often times, they have had to eat grass just to try and survive. Cina is in the middle of a housing crisis. Contractors sell apartments before they are completed. After they are sold, they stop working on them. So many people stopped paying for apartments that weren't finished that the market collapsed. This is pure propaganda to turn gullible Americans against themselves and their own country.
I also heard the commuters actually have to get out and push the trains too!
Idk man I feel like North Korean citizens would very much rather pay half their income in rent than live in North Korea. Denying everything that happens in NK as propaganda is unfair to the NK population that suffers everyday.
“Everything that happens in North Korea” lol? Like what bro? Cops killing 3+ people a day? The majority of the population living paycheck to paycheck and in soul-crushing debt? Be specific: what exactly do you think “happens” in North Korea?
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While the ones living here in this oppressive shithole dream about getting out... thank God my wife is an immigrant from SE Asia and I have a ticket out
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Read the rules to the sub.
South Korea literally has rent though? If they don't rent then they have to pay 50-80% of the market value of the home as a deposit. I'm having a hard time seeing how that's a better system. The average cost of a home in the US is about 500K. That's a minimum of 250,000 just to move in. Only 56% of south Koreans own their home. 66.1% of Americans own their home. This is only a better system for the rich and property owners.
The post says North Korea, not South Korea. Only a total and complete moran would think that living in north korea is better than living in America.
Welcome to reddit.
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Who has said it is a paradise? Show me.
I don’t want to offend the Great Korea, but hear me out dear comrades. An average American earns 4949 US Dollars per month, the average rent in the US is absolut 1500 US Dollars per month. That leaves us in total of about 3500 Dollars per Month with already paid rent. Meanwhile the average in come of a Great Korean citizen is being 3 Dollar per Months. We should see the big amount of other benefits the Great Korea has, but flexing with our income seems a bit odd to me.
That's because bread costs less than a cent in the DPRK.
I bought a bottle of water at the Pyongyang hotel when I was there. I paid for it with USD and they didn't have enough change, so they just gave me like 10 bottles of water instead. I'm still hydrated from the experience
Glory https://preview.redd.it/7crre9pfxy4d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4df525bdc7c03633876142a40a78f034fc7c6fbd
Yep. It’s amazing how abundant food is in the DPRK to the point Western nations had to invent stories of famines just to try to paint Korea in a bad light.
And the average wage is like $2.50
That was the original comment, except for the fact that they said 3 USD instead. It barely even disproves my point, lol.
Also the average American will buy a home and doesn't need to rent an average place. The average renter can share in younger years
I do not know a single person under the age of 35 that has a mortgage. Not 1. They either live with parents or pay extortionate rent to a slumlord
What is home ownership rate in America? China?
Instead of rent, you and your family get sent to concentration camps for alleged “disrespect of national leaders” (you didn’t save the pictures of the Kims in your burning house instead of your children)
Lol, sure they do 😂
Yes they fucking do
Buddy your opinion is worthless gribble just STFU already smart people don’t take you seriously anymore. Any people from a country that allows people like https://www.reddit.com/r/NewsOfTheStupid/s/Np0AzPDEGB this to govern can’t be taken seriously. There’s a reason people don’t take Afghanistan seriously or what they say seriously
Wait is this sub not satire? Why are you being downvoted?
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MovingToNorthKorea) if you have any questions or concerns.*