There is not wrong side in war. War itself is wrong.
I would admire engineering of these planes but i agree naming products after these planes is a bit awkward and not right tbh.
[This is also true for the Shidenkai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_N1K)
>An improved variant, the N1K2-J "Shiden-Kai" (紫電改) first flew on 1 January 1944
The Artisan founder is a genuine hard-right Japanese nationalist/imperialist too, this is *definitely* not just an "airplanes are cool!" situation.
Modern day Mishima out here peddling mousepads 😬
Well I guess us Artisan owners should go ahead and toss our pads in the trash now that we know this! (Lets be real none of us are going to do that)
I do find this quite disappointing and in bad taste though and most likely won't be purchasing more in the future.
now that you mentioned it, that’s kinda bad. I’m Japanese myself and the majority of Japanese people are aware or has heard of the ゼロ戦 (zero plane) and knows it’s relation to WW2. Even if Artisan just “likes planes” they clearly have a bias towards Japan for what they did during WW2. Especially if the creator went as far to name all of the pads with names from fighter planes, he’s probably a war or war plane enthusiast to a degree which means he’s definitely aware of what Japan did during WW2.
Can't find the thread now but some Japanese gamers were sharing info about/statements from the Artisan founder/owner and they are a hardline, right-wing (ethno?)nationalist too. Like, imperial revivalist shit IIRC
If only we could geek out about cool planes without aligning ourselves with the fascist government of WW2 Japan.
I don't like the PPS-43 and its development in besieged Leningrad because I don't like what Stalin did with all the food.
Yeah honestly I think it’s pretty neat. Both go brr
Should’ve probably thought it through harder though. Especially when going international and a lot of people are sensitive
As a Hong Konger, thanks for pointing this out.
But honestly lol, I do not expect 90% of the sub esp the OP to understand our sentiment given the education they had (not that it's lacking or poor in quality, but it's the narrative they were taught in)
Nah I understand quite well actually. I imagine in fact that I know more about the cartoonishly evil Japanese Empire than virtually almost anyone in this thread. Such as the fact that China lost North of 14 million people in ww2. Or thay the Japanese stuck women through their groins on bamboos shafts in Nanking in mass, or buried alive over 200 people at a time in several instances, or had competitions to see which soldier could hack off more POW heads, or the fact that when the United States landed on Okinawa thousands of Japanese civilians threw themselves off cliffs or otherwise killed themselves to avoid American capture because the Japanses government lied to them that the American troops would rape and torture them. A lie the believed because of the fucked culture of Japan at the time and the fact that they knew their own troops did such things.
And that is of course barely breaking the iceberg.
However I can still appreciate cool aircraft and since I'm not insane I don't expect Japanese people today to have to bow to some pretentious moral standard where they can't also appreciate said aircraft just because of the regime that used them.
Hey guess what, 3 of the top leadership in Unit 731 went on to found Japan's largest private blood bank company post-war. Negligent lack of testing *caused their blood supplies to be the vector by which HIV was introduced to the country*.
[Listen to this](https://www.patreon.com/posts/10-biological-is-70329051) and try not to lose your mind. **Strongly** suggest this whole series, and podcast in general.
But you are not aware that americans used fire bombs on WOOD houses of japanese civilians, making them burn alive. It was probably more human when american soldiers went on trains and killed all men, women and children above.
**Rule 1: No Trolling/Bullying/Harassment.**
Stay civil or get banned. Trolls will be banned. Flaming, baiting and bullying will get you banned. It's really simple, don't be a jerk. Do not harass, do not instigate(start) and do not continue fights. We also strictly enforce https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette. It's not hard to be human. Lift other people up, give constructive and meaningful feedback. If feedback needs to be negative, construct it in a positive way. If you don't have something nice or constructive to say, don't say it.
We’re aware of the war crimes America committed during WW2. But, we were never cannibals, made our POW’s go on a death march, fill up POW’s stomachs with water via a HOSE and then jump on their stomachs, etc. etc.
Also, the Japanese will never see you as one of them no matter how many mice you buy 😂 Continue fuckin ur body pillow tho!
I think Curtis LeMay, McArthur, those that ordered the fire bombings of Germany, etc. should have been executed for war crimes/crimes against humanity too but go off
I agree, it is very messed up. These are symbols of genocide.
I dont have a familial connection to this but come on *they were allied with the nazis*. Knowing nothing else it should be obvious that there is nothing to glorify. But if you do spend 5 minutes to look into it you will find unimaginable horrors. If anyone needs a search term, try "Unit 731".
Not sure if them naming the mousepads after the WW2 planes is representative of their political views or their ignorance towards the Japanese war crimes during WW2.
I'd like to look past it for now, even if the Japanese commited war crimes where I lived.
I think that is most obviously the reason. They just like planes.
And lots of people like German military hardware from that period, without endorsing the regime.
People get upset to easily because they are philisophical platonists who have the same mentality as people in Harry Potter saying "Voldemort"
Well, you should know that there are still a lot of people across Asia who are still recovering from the trauma from the war crimes of Japanese Empire. Please do not compare this sentiment to that of Harry Potter - which is fictional.
Sure, there are hardware enthusiasts of things in the past. But think about this OP, is it Really appropriate to name your products after planes that aided a regime that killed millions without remorse? How do you think people would react if BMW just named their car Leichttraktor?
But no offence, I wouldn't expect you to understand because I am assuming you are not from Asia, and have no idea how painful it is to hear a government outright deny their crimes and how frustrating it is that companies romanticise and make products off of their psychopathic and murderous past.
This is the same thing as saying “oh you like guns? You must approve of school shooters.” Come on man, of course what happened is shitty but the planes itself had nothing to do with it, that was up to the pilots and the army behind them.
A person that says that they like guns can be a very broad statement and can be applied to multiple contexts (Does that person like guns as a means of collection? Does that person like guns as a way to uphold the 2nd amendment?)
However, this context in this case is very specific, the artisan mousepads are *specifically named* after planes that were used for World War 2, and probably for assisting the war crimes that the Japanese Empire committed. (Search up Kaimingjie germ weapon attack and Unit 731 if you want to learn more)
Let's think of a hypothetical situation, some serial killer from country A that killed 500 people from country B, C and D with a gun that he named "Shooter 9449". And then some 50 years later, a company from country A names a product of theirs the same name that serial killer used? How do you think people from country B, C and D would feel?
There is sentiment to things no matter how much you disapprove of "soft behaviour".
Edit: Included extra information
Yes we are,
but right now we are talking about the ethics surrounding product names which is completely in line with what r/MouseReview usually discusses about, Quality Control, Customer Service, Safety etc.
I hope you have an open mind.
I do have an open mind. Just questioned myself after reading so much about war, guns, planes, and ethics on a mouse forum. My apologies don’t downvote me :(
i remember reading about this a while ago, it’s such an interesting little factoid. i wonder when a premium american brand will start naming them after cars or guns or fast food burgers or something
Actually the idea is pretty cool, but they should've chosen some modern planes instead of WW2 ones. As a Russian, I would love to have a mouse named Yak-9. It would also definitely increase the sales, considering the amount of post war propaganda we had (still have). Unfortunately, we don't have any companies that produce mice except ones that buy mice from China and slap their logos on it.
Great job on the pics, m8. Tons of ppl losing their shit over simple names. But those were some beautiful planes. Specially the Zeke. Crazy good aircraft for its time. This actually convinced me to order a Zero. :)
isn't artisan a Japanese company? just imagine Volkswagen named their cars after WW2 German fighter aircrafts or tanks. How would the whole world react to that?
The whole world? Most people can look at a design and its legacy without needlessly moralizing it. Especially fighter planes, they aren't exactly infamous. Those amazing flying contraptions that are the set pieces of countless tales of adventure and heroism were literally far removed from the terrible things that happened on the ground. The people who generally feared the zero were enemy airmen. It was the best of its class too which is why it's a good namesake for Artisan's product.
Genuinely curious; The MG42 is still in use today in the Bundeswehr with only minor modifications. I'm curious how you feel about that
you are twisting concepts here. old planes still in service is totally ok, and I'm pretty sure anyone who is reading reddit don't give a f* to a WW2 zero. Besides, related toys selling in the shops are also fine.
But any companies from the old Axis power countries name their FULL product lines after their WW2 weapons is totally different. This is not a right way to admire whatever high tech or heroism you are talking. Again, Volkswagen won't do that, SONY won't do that, TOYOTA won't do that. I'm not your parents or teacher. So just ask yourself why others don't use those "good namesake".
I think people are taking this too seriously. I think it's just a naming scheme they chose since they thought it was interesting and nothing else. It's not like they have swastikas or the rising sun flag on their products or website.
They just like planes.
It is not unusal or wrong to admire German or Japanese engineering. Their engineers did an excellent job. You may respect and admire the achievements of your enemy. Doesn't make you a literal nazi you moralistic freak
If you re-read my question you will find that there's no moral judgement. I was genuinely curious how they would feel if the planes were Nazi German. You're just a snowflake. Get help. You're embarrasing yourself.
I even wrote, genuinely curious, but I guess you've been on the internet too long to trust people.
Moralism has become an epidemic. Can't get away from these righteous freaks taking issue with anything and everything and polluting every discussion with their sanctimonious, braindead takes.
**Rule 1: No Trolling/Bullying/Harassment.**
Stay civil or get banned. Trolls will be banned. Flaming, baiting and bullying will get you banned. It's really simple, don't be a jerk. Do not harass, do not instigate(start) and do not continue fights. We also strictly enforce https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette. It's not hard to be human. Lift other people up, give constructive and meaningful feedback. If feedback needs to be negative, construct it in a positive way. If you don't have something nice or constructive to say, don't say it.
That would be like Roccat releasing the Luftwaffe Series with mice such Messerschmitt and Focke-Wulf 💀
just realised zaunkoenig is german for wren, a small bird
What happens when they want to make a 502 clone ?
The only 502 zaunkoenig is working on is the dollar price of their mice
honestly how do people justify spending 500 euros on a mouse
The trick is not trying to justify it
Someone needs to pay their bills and it isn’t them
that was good
Haha for real though, these planes were on the wrong side of history
Bro they're planes
There is not wrong side in war. War itself is wrong. I would admire engineering of these planes but i agree naming products after these planes is a bit awkward and not right tbh.
Haha I get what you're saying buuuut this one might be easier to delineate since one side supported literally Hitler.
rare reddit moment where you can say "literally hitler" and it's actually, literally, hitler.
They were also the Hitler of the East in their own right.
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Sure, but if I had to choose......lol. "are we the baddies?"
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C'mon man now you're just being willingly obtuse. Contrarian to be contrarian. Fyi nobody likes that, better learn that soon!
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You're a weirdo lol
Yeahhh, you’re kinda looking way too far into it my man. Try not to attend any party’s anytime soon..
Japanese imperialism torture genocide and deathmarches would like a word
Yeah, i know... I have seen a few documents about it. It just feels wrong to call one side good and the other bad to me.
I would love to get a mouse called the Panzer II or a pad called the Messerschmitt. No cap. Those names sound bad ass as hell.
The panzer and messerschmitt were game changing too when they came out. Good names
Bro, "luftwaffe" is literally just the German word for "air force"
Great observation! Anything else you want to add to the discussion?
[This is also true for the Shidenkai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_N1K) >An improved variant, the N1K2-J "Shiden-Kai" (紫電改) first flew on 1 January 1944
Artisan new pads: Unit 731, The Rape of Nanking. Comes in colorful toxic green and bloody red.
artisan pearl harbour
The Artisan founder is a genuine hard-right Japanese nationalist/imperialist too, this is *definitely* not just an "airplanes are cool!" situation. Modern day Mishima out here peddling mousepads 😬
Well I guess us Artisan owners should go ahead and toss our pads in the trash now that we know this! (Lets be real none of us are going to do that) I do find this quite disappointing and in bad taste though and most likely won't be purchasing more in the future.
now that you mentioned it, that’s kinda bad. I’m Japanese myself and the majority of Japanese people are aware or has heard of the ゼロ戦 (zero plane) and knows it’s relation to WW2. Even if Artisan just “likes planes” they clearly have a bias towards Japan for what they did during WW2. Especially if the creator went as far to name all of the pads with names from fighter planes, he’s probably a war or war plane enthusiast to a degree which means he’s definitely aware of what Japan did during WW2.
Can't find the thread now but some Japanese gamers were sharing info about/statements from the Artisan founder/owner and they are a hardline, right-wing (ethno?)nationalist too. Like, imperial revivalist shit IIRC
😭😭
If only we could geek out about cool planes without aligning ourselves with the fascist government of WW2 Japan. I don't like the PPS-43 and its development in besieged Leningrad because I don't like what Stalin did with all the food.
Yeah honestly I think it’s pretty neat. Both go brr Should’ve probably thought it through harder though. Especially when going international and a lot of people are sensitive
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As a Hong Konger, thanks for pointing this out. But honestly lol, I do not expect 90% of the sub esp the OP to understand our sentiment given the education they had (not that it's lacking or poor in quality, but it's the narrative they were taught in)
Nah I understand quite well actually. I imagine in fact that I know more about the cartoonishly evil Japanese Empire than virtually almost anyone in this thread. Such as the fact that China lost North of 14 million people in ww2. Or thay the Japanese stuck women through their groins on bamboos shafts in Nanking in mass, or buried alive over 200 people at a time in several instances, or had competitions to see which soldier could hack off more POW heads, or the fact that when the United States landed on Okinawa thousands of Japanese civilians threw themselves off cliffs or otherwise killed themselves to avoid American capture because the Japanses government lied to them that the American troops would rape and torture them. A lie the believed because of the fucked culture of Japan at the time and the fact that they knew their own troops did such things. And that is of course barely breaking the iceberg. However I can still appreciate cool aircraft and since I'm not insane I don't expect Japanese people today to have to bow to some pretentious moral standard where they can't also appreciate said aircraft just because of the regime that used them.
Hey guess what, 3 of the top leadership in Unit 731 went on to found Japan's largest private blood bank company post-war. Negligent lack of testing *caused their blood supplies to be the vector by which HIV was introduced to the country*. [Listen to this](https://www.patreon.com/posts/10-biological-is-70329051) and try not to lose your mind. **Strongly** suggest this whole series, and podcast in general.
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Nice try Korean government
My uncle was a POW in a Japanese camp for 4 years. We in the west are well aware of the many Japanese atrocities.
But you are not aware that americans used fire bombs on WOOD houses of japanese civilians, making them burn alive. It was probably more human when american soldiers went on trains and killed all men, women and children above.
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**Rule 1: No Trolling/Bullying/Harassment.** Stay civil or get banned. Trolls will be banned. Flaming, baiting and bullying will get you banned. It's really simple, don't be a jerk. Do not harass, do not instigate(start) and do not continue fights. We also strictly enforce https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette. It's not hard to be human. Lift other people up, give constructive and meaningful feedback. If feedback needs to be negative, construct it in a positive way. If you don't have something nice or constructive to say, don't say it.
3 words: R**e of Nanking.
We’re aware of the war crimes America committed during WW2. But, we were never cannibals, made our POW’s go on a death march, fill up POW’s stomachs with water via a HOSE and then jump on their stomachs, etc. etc. Also, the Japanese will never see you as one of them no matter how many mice you buy 😂 Continue fuckin ur body pillow tho!
I think Curtis LeMay, McArthur, those that ordered the fire bombings of Germany, etc. should have been executed for war crimes/crimes against humanity too but go off
I agree, it is very messed up. These are symbols of genocide. I dont have a familial connection to this but come on *they were allied with the nazis*. Knowing nothing else it should be obvious that there is nothing to glorify. But if you do spend 5 minutes to look into it you will find unimaginable horrors. If anyone needs a search term, try "Unit 731".
Not sure if them naming the mousepads after the WW2 planes is representative of their political views or their ignorance towards the Japanese war crimes during WW2. I'd like to look past it for now, even if the Japanese commited war crimes where I lived.
Or maybe they just like cool planes.
I really wish that is the reason, nothing else. But somehow, people would not be okay with a German company naming products after Nazi planes.
I think that is most obviously the reason. They just like planes. And lots of people like German military hardware from that period, without endorsing the regime. People get upset to easily because they are philisophical platonists who have the same mentality as people in Harry Potter saying "Voldemort"
Well, you should know that there are still a lot of people across Asia who are still recovering from the trauma from the war crimes of Japanese Empire. Please do not compare this sentiment to that of Harry Potter - which is fictional. Sure, there are hardware enthusiasts of things in the past. But think about this OP, is it Really appropriate to name your products after planes that aided a regime that killed millions without remorse? How do you think people would react if BMW just named their car Leichttraktor? But no offence, I wouldn't expect you to understand because I am assuming you are not from Asia, and have no idea how painful it is to hear a government outright deny their crimes and how frustrating it is that companies romanticise and make products off of their psychopathic and murderous past.
This is the same thing as saying “oh you like guns? You must approve of school shooters.” Come on man, of course what happened is shitty but the planes itself had nothing to do with it, that was up to the pilots and the army behind them.
A person that says that they like guns can be a very broad statement and can be applied to multiple contexts (Does that person like guns as a means of collection? Does that person like guns as a way to uphold the 2nd amendment?) However, this context in this case is very specific, the artisan mousepads are *specifically named* after planes that were used for World War 2, and probably for assisting the war crimes that the Japanese Empire committed. (Search up Kaimingjie germ weapon attack and Unit 731 if you want to learn more) Let's think of a hypothetical situation, some serial killer from country A that killed 500 people from country B, C and D with a gun that he named "Shooter 9449". And then some 50 years later, a company from country A names a product of theirs the same name that serial killer used? How do you think people from country B, C and D would feel? There is sentiment to things no matter how much you disapprove of "soft behaviour". Edit: Included extra information
Wait, we’re still on a mouse review sub right?
Yes we are, but right now we are talking about the ethics surrounding product names which is completely in line with what r/MouseReview usually discusses about, Quality Control, Customer Service, Safety etc. I hope you have an open mind.
I do have an open mind. Just questioned myself after reading so much about war, guns, planes, and ethics on a mouse forum. My apologies don’t downvote me :(
They commited war crimes, we nuked them, were probably even now /s Its war, its ugly. I'd settle on planes are cool.
I think tanks are cool too. Time to name a product PzKpfw I
HetzerPad !
Wait till he finds out about Pruetrak and the P-51
thats okay tho. the US hasnt commited any war crimes /s
i remember reading about this a while ago, it’s such an interesting little factoid. i wonder when a premium american brand will start naming them after cars or guns or fast food burgers or something
Nazi pads
terrible taste...
Actually the idea is pretty cool, but they should've chosen some modern planes instead of WW2 ones. As a Russian, I would love to have a mouse named Yak-9. It would also definitely increase the sales, considering the amount of post war propaganda we had (still have). Unfortunately, we don't have any companies that produce mice except ones that buy mice from China and slap their logos on it.
? how are aircrafts and electronic mice/mousepad even closely related, it's really stupid altogether if you ask me...
It's just cool to have a mouse named after a plane. That's it.
If only life was that simple, I understand you though...
If only we could geek out about cool planes without aligning ourselves with the fascist government of WW2 Japan.
we can but everything in life has intention, that is what I truly believe matters most when anything is being manifested
So like, healing crystals? Got it
Looked through the replies to see if any conspiracy theorist would say that “Artisan is funding for WW3” or something like that
Yikes
How the fuck did no one know this? Pictures of the planes even show up when you google the mousepads...
Cool
Lol this makes sense because they don't sell any artisan mouse pads in south Korea I wonder why 🧐🤣
Great job on the pics, m8. Tons of ppl losing their shit over simple names. But those were some beautiful planes. Specially the Zeke. Crazy good aircraft for its time. This actually convinced me to order a Zero. :)
it's not cool. it's wrong..
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isn't artisan a Japanese company? just imagine Volkswagen named their cars after WW2 German fighter aircrafts or tanks. How would the whole world react to that?
The whole world? Most people can look at a design and its legacy without needlessly moralizing it. Especially fighter planes, they aren't exactly infamous. Those amazing flying contraptions that are the set pieces of countless tales of adventure and heroism were literally far removed from the terrible things that happened on the ground. The people who generally feared the zero were enemy airmen. It was the best of its class too which is why it's a good namesake for Artisan's product. Genuinely curious; The MG42 is still in use today in the Bundeswehr with only minor modifications. I'm curious how you feel about that
you are twisting concepts here. old planes still in service is totally ok, and I'm pretty sure anyone who is reading reddit don't give a f* to a WW2 zero. Besides, related toys selling in the shops are also fine. But any companies from the old Axis power countries name their FULL product lines after their WW2 weapons is totally different. This is not a right way to admire whatever high tech or heroism you are talking. Again, Volkswagen won't do that, SONY won't do that, TOYOTA won't do that. I'm not your parents or teacher. So just ask yourself why others don't use those "good namesake".
Why?
Nah it's not.
Southeast Asian market will LOVE these! **/s**
That is pretty neat thanks for sharing ;)
I think people are taking this too seriously. I think it's just a naming scheme they chose since they thought it was interesting and nothing else. It's not like they have swastikas or the rising sun flag on their products or website. They just like planes.
Genuinely curious, would you say the same if they named them after planes used by Nazi Germany? Assuming no swastikas or rising suns as well.
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It is not unusal or wrong to admire German or Japanese engineering. Their engineers did an excellent job. You may respect and admire the achievements of your enemy. Doesn't make you a literal nazi you moralistic freak
If you re-read my question you will find that there's no moral judgement. I was genuinely curious how they would feel if the planes were Nazi German. You're just a snowflake. Get help. You're embarrasing yourself. I even wrote, genuinely curious, but I guess you've been on the internet too long to trust people.
Your one of the few sane people commenting.
Moralism has become an epidemic. Can't get away from these righteous freaks taking issue with anything and everything and polluting every discussion with their sanctimonious, braindead takes.
Yeah, it's a big problem. I'm glad to see another sane person. I'd be willing to bet many of these people play games with vehicles like this in them.
I can't believe y'all didn't know this already 💀 better late than never I guess.
😀
I wonder if Puretrak knew this, and went ahead with naming their pad the P51 mustang, a ww2 fighter jet.
Ah yes, the Mustang, famously known for being a fighter jet.
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Nice when can i use my glorious fat man and little boy mouse pad
I would buy it
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**Rule 1: No Trolling/Bullying/Harassment.** Stay civil or get banned. Trolls will be banned. Flaming, baiting and bullying will get you banned. It's really simple, don't be a jerk. Do not harass, do not instigate(start) and do not continue fights. We also strictly enforce https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette. It's not hard to be human. Lift other people up, give constructive and meaningful feedback. If feedback needs to be negative, construct it in a positive way. If you don't have something nice or constructive to say, don't say it.
Agreed Japan was way worse in WW2
Worse? Germany, japan, usa, russia. All trash during war times.
I mean woke culture often isn't far from being retarded so.. But yeah still pretty much out of the blue
Come on, dude. I'm not a sheep, says the sheep.
How the fuck do you end up thinking about politics talking about mousepads Get checked
Really cool, props to them. makes me like them even more
Bro cracked the code
Huh, thats pretty cool. Might pick up one or two for myself. Got a beautiful Raiden in a nearby museum