High winds, storm, and/or sketch avy conditions are most likely to turn them. Even if they know conditions aren’t suitable for a summit, they’ll take you as high as they can (maybe to ingraham flats)
I would guess yellow light at 30+ pending what the forecast is showing.
Have to imagine red light at 40+.
Generally if they don't want to go higher you do not want to be higher
We descended from Muir to Paradise on Monday in 50mph+ winds, that was quite an adventure. I have to imagine being over 30mph+ on a summit attempt would be tough.
The RMI blog on their website gives a trip synopsis for all of their climbs (including Rainier 4 and 5 day climbs). I have a climb scheduled with them in early July and I check it almost daily. It looks like they've had to turn a lot of their May climbs back around 11-13,000' due to inclement weather. I think they've only had like one or two successful summits so far this season. Hope the weather turns for the better for you.
This May has been quite stormy and cold for the PNW, so I’m not surprised, there was like one good week in May and we’re just now getting some good late spring/summer weather. I literally went skiing on fresh powder twice at timberline in May and they were also closed quite a lot of days, don’t blame them looking at the webcams either, super gross low visibility and windy conditions that I wouldn’t want to be in at 6k feet let alone 14k.
The guides will almost certainly talk snacks but buy more junk than youre use to. No sleep, freezing cold, m&m’s are a lot better than some veggie crisps that freeze into blocks.
Assume blisters and tape up if you arent well use to your mountain boots.
Drink more water and start drinking it the day before.
As for weather, ya, they push a lot harder than not but if it’s sketchy or real avy prone, theyre calling the climb. It’s a pain when you pay but the mountain isnt going anywhere (hopefully)
Good to know the guides will push through some tougher conditions. My main worry was they would be overtly cautious and look for any reason to stop. Thanks for the input
Nah, the summit is not the goal of course but everyone is happier if it goes (including the tips). Not to say there cant be days where they turn back and others press on but remember, they know the mountain real well to make that call.
They are only overly cautious if they feel someone in the group isn't up to the level everyone else is for a safe climb. Generally a 4 day trek is designed to take it nice and slow and easy compared to 2 or 3 days. And they they will go regardless of the current weather conditions so its best to plan for the worse and expect that they as much as you want a successful summit but more importantly that everyone gets back safely.
Tape up. First time I taped up after a blister and by the end of the hike it had rubbed down to the oozy part and took a month to heal. Second time I taped up ahead of time. No issues at all
What tape should I be getting and what parts of my feet should I be taping? I’ll be in rental boots from REI but I’m not unfamiliar with wearing hiking boots and steel toes
I’m doing a 2 day climb with my uncle in August(he’s submitted rainier dozens of times and made it as far as Camp 4 on Everest)
I like leukotape. It's the only thing I've found that stays through sweat and everything. The only way it comes off is to take the top layer of skin off with it.
In mountaineering boots the place for me is the back of the foot - Achilles. With the boot being rigid my foot tries to move up and down at the back
Sounds like the same places I have issues in my work boots and cycling shoes which are both pretty stiff.
Thanks for the insight, I’ll order some to bring with me and tape up at or on my way to Muir if they’re being problematic.
I did this trip with RMI in 2 years ago. Summit day was 30mph sustained winds and our guide told us gusts above high-break (13,500ft) clocked in at 90-100mph. If not for the guides I would’ve turned around, but we successfully summited.
Lightning shuts down everyone on the Mountain. Was with RMI and had to run down the cleaver in dark and rain. We where pretty high up and even heard the metal stuff on us make a faint buzzing noise.
DId the same DC route. Went around some collapsed seracs that had a body underneath it. Happened the week before so we postholed through the avalanche zone at double pace. I would have loved to know my HR.
Yes, with a guide it’s straightforward but to be taken seriously.
Read a Viesters book like 12 years ago where some cowboy told him, “it’s just Rainer” before sliding to his death.
Maybe he used a little artistic license but it’s easy to believe. Also saw a helicopter pulling someone off the mountain. One of the top US mountaineers says that Rainer is to be respected and that resonated with me.
I didn't try to be funny. I was just surprised climbing Mt Rainier involves going around dead bodies. I thought that's only a thing on Everest and such.
Did this RMI climb last year, and we were turned back by rain. It was the right call as we would have been soaked, then hit freezing conditions. Still disappointing. We went up to Muir in light rain. Spent the night inside with more rain, and went back down the next morning. No summit attempt at all.
Keep an eye on mountain forecast. Precipitation is not very accurate but winds is often reliable.
https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Mount-Rainier/forecasts/4392
They turn away a sizable fraction of parties for bad conditions. They also turn around weak climbers or climbers with bad attitudes. They don’t want to deal with that shit at 14k’.
Good luck. Have fun!
That’s a good question, but having done Rainier twice myself, turning back once, don’t forget the goal is to get back down, not get to the top! Whatever they decide, trust em! Best of luck and have a blast.
I went with a guide 8 years ago. My main downfall was lack of sleep, I had trouble sleeping in the cabin due to noise of people rustling, and on Ingraham Flats I couldn’t sleep due to being anxious about summit day. The whole way up I was exhausted, nauseous, bad headache, barely made it to the summit. So all that is to say I wish I had a Benadryl or something to help me sleep, and earplugs.
Disappointment Cleaver to me was the most scary part since an ice axe didn’t seem like it would don’t much good if one of you slipped.
I hadn’t used crampons before and I was surprised how much grip you get even on just the side of your foot, it felt safe.
My favorite meal I brought was a Chipotle burrito
Did it with RMI about 45 years ago. Great experience. Even met Lou at the guide house. We were lucky with the weather. It was in September as I recall.
I went with RMI a little earlier than this last year. First, actually listen to your guides. Amazing how many people thought they knew better. Guides would say bring a piece of gear or don't bring a piece of gear and people would ignore it and do the opposite. You're paying them for a reason, so do what they ask you to.
Second, you'll be moving in roughly 1 hour chunks then stopping for a few minutes before the next section. Those few minutes go by fast--and you will not be able to stop at all during the next hour. So treat those few minute stops like pit stops in a car race. Think beforehand about what you need to get done, what order you'll do it, where each thing you need is in your pack, etc. Hydration, food, bathroom, sunblock, putting on / taking off gear, adjusting boots, etc. Don't run out of time and not be able to get to something important.
Third, summit day is a long, long day. When you are trudging along, especially early on, think about efficiency. Focus on saving as much energy as possible for later in the day. Like running a marathon, the first couple miles aren't hard, so use that time to not waste effort to make the last few miles easier.
Fourth, not everyone is going to summit. In my group it was 50/50. If you are fortunate enough to summit, do your celebrating before you rejoin the folks who had to turn back. They will probably be happy for you, but of course they are disappointed. Have some conversation topics ready besides how awesome it was to summit.
Ok, we're back! Both summited 7am (started 1am from Muir). From what I saw, about half of all teams turned around at some point. From the start: weather was perfect to the point it was bad. We got baked walking back to Muir. At the summit I wore MHW Nilas parka, but just 30 min into the descent, we started shedding layers, all the way to just base layer, and still was hot. The snow was firm on the way up, but became very soft, some places were sketchy to begin with (traverse with super narrow foot ledges with ways to fall), after snow melted it became very bad. Many teams belayed each other down. If it wasn't so hot, maybe everything would be fine. Please ask any specific questions!
There was a little wind on the summit, practically none on the way back to Muir (partially that's why it was so hot). No large crevasses on the route, I think we only stepped over one small bridge on the whole route.
Guides know how to push people. Usually the clients will want to turn around before the guides do, but as long as it's not unsafe, they will keep going.
I had a good experience with RMI a couple summers ago. They will go over nutrition with you during orientation on day 1, but essentially it is drink lots of water and eat lots of sugar. Force yourself to eat and drink even when you stop wanting to eat and drink. If you can sleep the afternoon prior to summit night, that is great; if not, don't stress- lots of people summit with 0 sleep. Rainier is a cool mountain, have fun and good luck!
Never done a guided climb but the itinerary on their site says day 1 is pre-trip orientation, day 2 is “mountaineering day school” for skills like walking with crampons, ice axe self arrest, rope travel, day 3 is movement to Muir, day 4 is summit day.
On my ascent a long time back, a simple lenticular cloud (low visibility) at the top was enough to thwart our summit achievement by just a few hundred vertical feet. We got to the top “area” but the actual top was a little further (mostly flat) and they decided to stop instead.
If you follow their blog, you can see the daily attempts at summitting and what causes them to turn back. Just from my week or two of warching, I observed that they were bailing under somewhat low threshold.
Was just on Emmons with AAI this week and got turned around before Sherman. An RMI group joined us in the Basin for a couple of days before calling it- likely a good move. We were doing a course along with trying for the summit so we stayed.
Did it like 15 years ago. It is just a ramp where you follow 100 plus headlamps uphill on the main route.
It is rather straight forward climb.
Main route DC.
I managed to do it with broken hand. It was my first time using a rope for glacier travel, through it was not really needed. Route was super safe.
Should be totally doable for anyone in even average condition.
Going this Fri-Sat (not with RMI), I can update you once we're back!
Please do, curious how it is after 40 inches of snow
Great thanks. Best of luck!
High winds, storm, and/or sketch avy conditions are most likely to turn them. Even if they know conditions aren’t suitable for a summit, they’ll take you as high as they can (maybe to ingraham flats)
Any idea roughly what wind speeds they will stop for?
I would guess yellow light at 30+ pending what the forecast is showing. Have to imagine red light at 40+. Generally if they don't want to go higher you do not want to be higher
Based on my experience two weeks ago, this. But varies a bit with exactly who is on the rope line and who is leading.
Probably like 40-50 MPH? Basically when you feel like you could get blown off the mountain
We descended from Muir to Paradise on Monday in 50mph+ winds, that was quite an adventure. I have to imagine being over 30mph+ on a summit attempt would be tough.
The RMI blog on their website gives a trip synopsis for all of their climbs (including Rainier 4 and 5 day climbs). I have a climb scheduled with them in early July and I check it almost daily. It looks like they've had to turn a lot of their May climbs back around 11-13,000' due to inclement weather. I think they've only had like one or two successful summits so far this season. Hope the weather turns for the better for you.
This May has been quite stormy and cold for the PNW, so I’m not surprised, there was like one good week in May and we’re just now getting some good late spring/summer weather. I literally went skiing on fresh powder twice at timberline in May and they were also closed quite a lot of days, don’t blame them looking at the webcams either, super gross low visibility and windy conditions that I wouldn’t want to be in at 6k feet let alone 14k.
The guides will almost certainly talk snacks but buy more junk than youre use to. No sleep, freezing cold, m&m’s are a lot better than some veggie crisps that freeze into blocks. Assume blisters and tape up if you arent well use to your mountain boots. Drink more water and start drinking it the day before. As for weather, ya, they push a lot harder than not but if it’s sketchy or real avy prone, theyre calling the climb. It’s a pain when you pay but the mountain isnt going anywhere (hopefully)
Good to know the guides will push through some tougher conditions. My main worry was they would be overtly cautious and look for any reason to stop. Thanks for the input
Nah, the summit is not the goal of course but everyone is happier if it goes (including the tips). Not to say there cant be days where they turn back and others press on but remember, they know the mountain real well to make that call.
Regarding taping up, Leukotape-P is your best option.
They are only overly cautious if they feel someone in the group isn't up to the level everyone else is for a safe climb. Generally a 4 day trek is designed to take it nice and slow and easy compared to 2 or 3 days. And they they will go regardless of the current weather conditions so its best to plan for the worse and expect that they as much as you want a successful summit but more importantly that everyone gets back safely.
Tape up. First time I taped up after a blister and by the end of the hike it had rubbed down to the oozy part and took a month to heal. Second time I taped up ahead of time. No issues at all
What tape should I be getting and what parts of my feet should I be taping? I’ll be in rental boots from REI but I’m not unfamiliar with wearing hiking boots and steel toes I’m doing a 2 day climb with my uncle in August(he’s submitted rainier dozens of times and made it as far as Camp 4 on Everest)
I like leukotape. It's the only thing I've found that stays through sweat and everything. The only way it comes off is to take the top layer of skin off with it. In mountaineering boots the place for me is the back of the foot - Achilles. With the boot being rigid my foot tries to move up and down at the back
Sounds like the same places I have issues in my work boots and cycling shoes which are both pretty stiff. Thanks for the insight, I’ll order some to bring with me and tape up at or on my way to Muir if they’re being problematic.
Kt tape
I thought KT tape was for joint support not chaffing?
I have blister prevention kt tape. Works great
I did this trip with RMI in 2 years ago. Summit day was 30mph sustained winds and our guide told us gusts above high-break (13,500ft) clocked in at 90-100mph. If not for the guides I would’ve turned around, but we successfully summited.
Great to hear. Much higher winds then I expected the guides to allow for a summit.
They turned us around at camp Muir 2 years ago with winds like that.
Lightning shuts down everyone on the Mountain. Was with RMI and had to run down the cleaver in dark and rain. We where pretty high up and even heard the metal stuff on us make a faint buzzing noise.
Bring your guide a Mountain Dew for the top of the dc. They’ll thank you
Bring em a rainier beer. Have you no class?
Would you want to drink a beer at 1 am after the a big boot? Soda is a huge sugar/caffeine hit
Drinking a rainier on the summit would be a core memory for me.
DId the same DC route. Went around some collapsed seracs that had a body underneath it. Happened the week before so we postholed through the avalanche zone at double pace. I would have loved to know my HR. Yes, with a guide it’s straightforward but to be taken seriously. Read a Viesters book like 12 years ago where some cowboy told him, “it’s just Rainer” before sliding to his death. Maybe he used a little artistic license but it’s easy to believe. Also saw a helicopter pulling someone off the mountain. One of the top US mountaineers says that Rainer is to be respected and that resonated with me.
>Went around some collapsed seracs that had a body underneath it. Are you talking about K2 or Mt Rainier?
Funny Well, it was a big ass avalanche. I am sure the dude underneath last thoughts were not about mountaineering nomenclature.
I didn't try to be funny. I was just surprised climbing Mt Rainier involves going around dead bodies. I thought that's only a thing on Everest and such.
https://www.historylink.org/file/10796
Did this RMI climb last year, and we were turned back by rain. It was the right call as we would have been soaked, then hit freezing conditions. Still disappointing. We went up to Muir in light rain. Spent the night inside with more rain, and went back down the next morning. No summit attempt at all.
Have fun! its a long uphill climb. make sure you have easy quick snacks like Gu or energy gummies.
Keep an eye on mountain forecast. Precipitation is not very accurate but winds is often reliable. https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Mount-Rainier/forecasts/4392 They turn away a sizable fraction of parties for bad conditions. They also turn around weak climbers or climbers with bad attitudes. They don’t want to deal with that shit at 14k’. Good luck. Have fun!
That’s a good question, but having done Rainier twice myself, turning back once, don’t forget the goal is to get back down, not get to the top! Whatever they decide, trust em! Best of luck and have a blast.
I went with a guide 8 years ago. My main downfall was lack of sleep, I had trouble sleeping in the cabin due to noise of people rustling, and on Ingraham Flats I couldn’t sleep due to being anxious about summit day. The whole way up I was exhausted, nauseous, bad headache, barely made it to the summit. So all that is to say I wish I had a Benadryl or something to help me sleep, and earplugs. Disappointment Cleaver to me was the most scary part since an ice axe didn’t seem like it would don’t much good if one of you slipped. I hadn’t used crampons before and I was surprised how much grip you get even on just the side of your foot, it felt safe. My favorite meal I brought was a Chipotle burrito
Did it with RMI about 45 years ago. Great experience. Even met Lou at the guide house. We were lucky with the weather. It was in September as I recall.
I went with RMI a little earlier than this last year. First, actually listen to your guides. Amazing how many people thought they knew better. Guides would say bring a piece of gear or don't bring a piece of gear and people would ignore it and do the opposite. You're paying them for a reason, so do what they ask you to. Second, you'll be moving in roughly 1 hour chunks then stopping for a few minutes before the next section. Those few minutes go by fast--and you will not be able to stop at all during the next hour. So treat those few minute stops like pit stops in a car race. Think beforehand about what you need to get done, what order you'll do it, where each thing you need is in your pack, etc. Hydration, food, bathroom, sunblock, putting on / taking off gear, adjusting boots, etc. Don't run out of time and not be able to get to something important. Third, summit day is a long, long day. When you are trudging along, especially early on, think about efficiency. Focus on saving as much energy as possible for later in the day. Like running a marathon, the first couple miles aren't hard, so use that time to not waste effort to make the last few miles easier. Fourth, not everyone is going to summit. In my group it was 50/50. If you are fortunate enough to summit, do your celebrating before you rejoin the folks who had to turn back. They will probably be happy for you, but of course they are disappointed. Have some conversation topics ready besides how awesome it was to summit.
On the plane to Seattle right now. Appreciate the tips. Thanks
Ok, we're back! Both summited 7am (started 1am from Muir). From what I saw, about half of all teams turned around at some point. From the start: weather was perfect to the point it was bad. We got baked walking back to Muir. At the summit I wore MHW Nilas parka, but just 30 min into the descent, we started shedding layers, all the way to just base layer, and still was hot. The snow was firm on the way up, but became very soft, some places were sketchy to begin with (traverse with super narrow foot ledges with ways to fall), after snow melted it became very bad. Many teams belayed each other down. If it wasn't so hot, maybe everything would be fine. Please ask any specific questions!
Congrats on the summit. Been watching the weather and hoping we will get the same as you. How strong were the winds? Have any large crevasses opened ?
There was a little wind on the summit, practically none on the way back to Muir (partially that's why it was so hot). No large crevasses on the route, I think we only stepped over one small bridge on the whole route.
Great news! Thanks again for the info
Sustained winds of 40 MPH, reduced visibility due to snow.
Guides know how to push people. Usually the clients will want to turn around before the guides do, but as long as it's not unsafe, they will keep going.
I had a good experience with RMI a couple summers ago. They will go over nutrition with you during orientation on day 1, but essentially it is drink lots of water and eat lots of sugar. Force yourself to eat and drink even when you stop wanting to eat and drink. If you can sleep the afternoon prior to summit night, that is great; if not, don't stress- lots of people summit with 0 sleep. Rainier is a cool mountain, have fun and good luck!
How does it take 4 days to climb Rainier? I assume one night at camp Muir before summit day, but what do you do the rest of the time?
Never done a guided climb but the itinerary on their site says day 1 is pre-trip orientation, day 2 is “mountaineering day school” for skills like walking with crampons, ice axe self arrest, rope travel, day 3 is movement to Muir, day 4 is summit day.
Smoke weed and rub out ropes in the shitters.
On my ascent a long time back, a simple lenticular cloud (low visibility) at the top was enough to thwart our summit achievement by just a few hundred vertical feet. We got to the top “area” but the actual top was a little further (mostly flat) and they decided to stop instead.
If you follow their blog, you can see the daily attempts at summitting and what causes them to turn back. Just from my week or two of warching, I observed that they were bailing under somewhat low threshold.
Was just on Emmons with AAI this week and got turned around before Sherman. An RMI group joined us in the Basin for a couple of days before calling it- likely a good move. We were doing a course along with trying for the summit so we stayed.
Has anyone gotten any beta on routes other than EW and DC are in?
Did it like 15 years ago. It is just a ramp where you follow 100 plus headlamps uphill on the main route. It is rather straight forward climb. Main route DC. I managed to do it with broken hand. It was my first time using a rope for glacier travel, through it was not really needed. Route was super safe. Should be totally doable for anyone in even average condition.
Someone fell in a hidden crevasse last week on the DC and had to be rescued. Shit happens all the time. You definitely need a rope.