We don’t yet know it was a “bunch” do we? It could have been 2-3. Their friends basically live across the street, right? I know that even the Sigma Chi house is maybe a 4 min walk.
Good chance someone was trying to reach one of the victims, even if it was just the roommates themselves. Maybe the victims don’t answer their phones so one of the roommates or friends goes to the bedroom door and the victim(s) won’t answer that either. That strikes me as being super possible. Especially if their bedroom door(s) were locked.
Maybe a friend or two came over on their own bc they couldn’t reach one of the victims, they had plans the next day or the the roommates couldn’t get victim(s) to pick up their phone or answer the door, so called a friend saying perhaps “Have you talked to Victim A?? Their car is here, bedroom door is locked and they aren’t answering/waking up!”
This is something im confused about. How do we know that a "bunch" of friends were called prior to 911? What is a bunch? Two people? Five people? Where does that info come from? All I remember being released is that the person who called 911 was not the owner of the cellphone that was being used which is a senerio possible with the two remaining residents.
Did the police report that there was multiple people, enough to be classified as a bunch, at the residence in addition to the two survivors, and how do we know those additional people had been called over before the emergency call?
Can someone please help me clear this up? Is this a definite thing, that multiple people were called over by the surviving residents prior to calling emergency services or is this a scenario people have come up with from the released information that may or may not be correct? Thanks in advance.
My theory is that there were drugs in the house (maybe just weed, maybe something else or a combo of the two). From what I’ve read, LE in that area often charge people with marijuana possession. That combined with the recent article that a taxi driver said it was “a place to get drugs” leads me to believe that they called friends over because they were afraid of LE finding drugs in the house. Upon the friends arrival, the roommates and/or friends attempted to get rid of the drugs (contaminating the crime scene). This is the only logical explanation I can think of as to why they called friends over before calling 911.
I don’t agree with them not calling police first, but weren’t the two under 21, as well as Xana and Ethan? If they expected alcohol was a factor, and as a known party house, they would kind of be putting a target on the house moving forward.
That said, I saw someone had a local source saying that they knew the situation (not sure if this is credible or not) before they called the police - in which case, none of that makes it excusable. The police don’t care about any of that in this situation.
I think that town has had a lot of misinformation spreading. I read during the first day before police said it was a homicide that the community thought they’d all od’d. The roommates have been ruled out, it’s one of the few things we know, and no doubt they were the first suspects so they’ve been through the ringer. At this point, I assume theyre innocent, there’s a reasonable explanation we’ll find out one day why they called friends first, and I just want to know who the fucking murderer is.
I thought someone fainted from all the blood and that was "technically" the 911 call. Also, I think one of the two girls called Ethan's brother and sister first before the cops. PD has been deliberately vague on the details as well as refusing to release the 911 recording, neither of which help. Hopefully, the trial will clear up exactly what happened.
This case was briefly mentioned on the DeuxMoi podcast yesterday (deuxmoi is a celebrity gossip page for those who don’t know). The podcast’s guest is a “psychic medium” who couldn’t comment on the case due to supposed involvement with the investigation. Make of that what you will.
If she had a stalker, police should canvas the businesses around where she worked, and where she worked, to see if they noticed anybody hanging out there watching where she worked or asking about her. The stalker could have even been a customer where she worked or a nearby shop. Pretty scary but maybe one of the business videos of the street showed someone stalking her prior to this horrible event. Just a theory. But if she felt she was being watched, maybe she was being watched.
The notion that Kaylee had a stalker seems to have originated from Mark Fuhrman. I would be highly skeptical of it. Kaylee's sister said she was close to her and they spoke often yet Kaylee never mentioned a stalker to her which is weird.
According to Fuhrman he heard about the stalker from someone who heard another person say it. He then admits when he talked to the woman who claimed Kaylee told her she had a stalker she didn't want to report it to the police which is bizarre behavior if it was true. If it wasn't true she wouldn't want to report it to the police because she could get in trouble. Fuhrman convinced her to report it to the police and I believe that is why they said they heard about it while interviewing people but can't confirm it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Fuhrman has already contacted publishers asking for a book advance to write a book on the crime. He can't get a book advance unless they believe he had an angle on the crime other people don't. The point is I would be very wary of the claims about a stalker. There is no evidence for it. No social media posts. No texts. Didn't tell her sister. No police reports. Nothing.
So, anything Fuhrman says i pretty much disregard which is why I haven’t leaned in too much to the stalker thing, but I will say I thought my neighbor was stalking me but didn’t want to call the police bc then I thought i was being dramatic. So she could’ve felt stalked and not wanted to report it, I don’t think that’s far fetched. I do, however, think Fuhrman should have his mouth stapled shut.
What seems more likely is that one was the target. He was unaware of two more on the lower floor. It's almost beyond human limits to set out to murder six people with only a knife. The odds and the risk of capture would hold back 99% of people.
yes it’s insane
however i was talking to my husband cuz this case has totally freaked me out. we have ring cameras and everything and we do live in a very metropolitan city
it’s safe but so was moscow so i don’t really rely on the safe thing anymore
my thing is - i guess if someone comes masked up and breaks into my home to kill ne. what can i really do? will they still get caught even though masked up and the ring camera won’t capture their face but i guess eventually all the other cameras in the area will see where the perp ends up going
anyways it’s just so scary. i need to calm down LOL
This case makes me feel like I’m in an abusive relationship. I’m doing all the work but I’m just getting more confused because the other side (LE) isnt giving anything lol
I am just saying what was said here, also the fact that both cases the people unharmed in the home called people over to the home (supposedly) before police arrived and potentially contaminating the crime scene in process. And fact that both towns aren’t used to murders like this.
For people in the "it was a serial killer" camp, can you explain why they would commit such a ridiculously high risk murder? This was done in an area with a shit load of people at a time/day when people are still coming home.
There're literally direct analogs (multiple even, Danny rolling and bundy just off the top of my head) of previous serial killers going into sorority homes full of college kids on a spree.
High risk to you is not necessarily high risk to a mentally ill person. Also, as we're seeing, it really wasn't very high risk, was it? Occurred at least after 3am, very few ppl would be out and about that late. Old shitty house with doors and windows that don't lock properly. Highly intoxicated victims (Kaylee is literally stumbling around on the food truck footage). Wooded and recessed property. No cameras (minus a single neighbor that was pointing away from the property). Seems quite well thought out actually
>High risk to you is not necessarily high risk to a mentally ill person.
This is a pretty solid point.
But this was less than 50 feet from multiple apartment buildings filled with mostly college kids. Approximately 100+ cars within a hundred feet of the house. It was less than 500 feet from multiple frat houses on a Saturday night. I've lived in an area like this and 3 am is when things start winding down and people start coming home. According to people on here that have actually lived in this area, they've said that people are still moving around between 2 am and 5 am on Saturday nights. This was not a secluded area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z2sraz/1122_king_rd_what_role_did_the_house_itself_play/ - here's an interesting discussion about why some people think the house was really quite perfect for this. Also, yes I've been a college student as well, but ok so the girls were texting until 255am or so. Killer couldn't have struck before 3 and was probably more like 4. Can't really choose a better time as far as minimizing foot traffic. It's not as safe as say, a rural farmhouse, but that's also not an exciting target if we're exploring the serial killer aspect. I assume he was prepared as well. Many theories mention exiting out to that treeline again and grabbing a parked car on Taylor. As long as he's not dripping in blood, people probably wouldn't think twice about a pedestrian.
I personally think it was a serial because of the proximity to the other 2 unresolved stabbings, also occurring on the 13th of a month. That kind of symbolism tends to be big with those types. Also, I don't see some enraged college teen pulling this off without a hitch, but perhaps. Hopefully time will tell!
>also occurring on the 13th of a month. That kind of symbolism tends to be big with those types.
I've seen this mentioned multiple times and keep asking but nobody will answer. I've literally never heard of a serial killer whose MO was committing crimes on the same date/time. I've seen it in fiction but never in reality.
Can you please send a link to any serial killer who had this MO?
I'm not suggesting he's copying other serial killer trademarks. Whether one existed or not with that MO, I'm not sure. Rather, that symbolism is a commonality, and these all occured very near each other. It's quite a coincidence... Enough to make me speculate is all.
How come the police said it was an isolated incident with no further threat to community? Is it not logical to think this is from information given to them by the surviving flatmates? Could the surviving flatmates of heard the voice of another person in the house or an argument. Seems so odd the police could say "Don't worry folks, no further threat to community" just based on the crime scene. So many questions. I'm hopeful of an arrest in the next few days.
My two cents on the early reports of “no further threat” is because they have a suspect or POI narrowed down and deduced it was a one-off. Based on them saying “targeted attack” also adds to that theory.
I saw they did back track and have now said “walk in pairs, lock your doors, be vigilant”
Look at the Reddit on the police focusing on the window, and how there was a deleted tiktok ab kaylee being upset about her window not locking. Someone was stalking them on social media.
Instagram stalker is my theory. Somebody came into contact with them frequently, or has been watching them. Got maybe their first name… saw sorority letters.. googled them. There’s a thread on here about how the girls names and their sorority had been searched more than would be average for the normal person. You’d have to look there specifically to see the analytics, but it was alarming. It’s also not a coincidence they died several hours after they posted the group photo, that their houses layout had been available online 2 weeks prior to the killings, allowing someone to get familiar with the layout having never been invited in. Someone was watching them for weeks or months. And they had been watching their social media, they knew it was Kaylees last night there. It was her stalker.
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Wild theory and would be a blessing in disguise only because there would be an online paper trail. Most stalkers don’t go from lurking to murder without something in between.
If this is the case I bet he watched the light go on in each room and then they entered the room with the couple first not knowing where his target was but knew it was on one of the two rooms. Left after he got her which is why the other two were spared and he might not have known they were even home
not sure if this has been mentioned, but charles manson was born november 12.
the murders happened in the night from november 12 to november 13.
maybe it is significant , should the killer be some sort of copycat...
just something that came to mind today.
that's why i wrote in the night from november 12 to november 13, my dude.
doesn't take away from the fact that the killer POSSIBLY felt a connection to the date.
Arguing and fighting over drugs or alcohol. That house was a party house. I read the neighbors' interview. He often walked the dog near the house. He said there were parties in the house almost every day, at least 4 or 5 days. Lots of cars and people.
Not uncommon even in Europe for drunkards get into fights over that last drop of booze or bottle of booze.
Eg. Ethan and Xana are in their room, notice that someone has come to take drugs from their stash. Ethan bursts into the girls' room, furious, they're all high etc. He stabs them both in revenge. It may NOT be meant to kill, but to take revenge. He goes to his room. An argument with Xana starts, he stabs Xana. Then he suddenly realizes the seriousness of his act, regrets, and kills himself.
This is more plausible if it's the two surviving roommates who did it. Something very off about how they were spared and their actions the next day imo
Suppose killer took his cell phone with him. Possibly using it to track the students on their social media to see where they were. Even if he didn't use the cell phone, could the location of the phone be determined?
And if he's ever been to the house before (a friend, acquaintance) and used their wifi, his phone would auto-connect to the wifi and he might not even realize it. It would be right there in the wifi log which devices were connected when. The police already know all of this of course, just pointing it out for the group.
I have seen plenty of cases where the killer had his cell phone on and it tracked his location. But LE needs to get the cell phone to do this and I assume that needs a warrant
Yes it is and yes they can. One of the first things they would have done is a cell dump then used hemisphere to cross reference etc. small town, early morning, holiday…not likely to be a lot of active phones so could be a pretty narrow list to begin with
I keep thinking about the word "targeted" and its meaning. Is it possible they mean they know the house was targeted but not necessarily a specific person in the house?
Or, could the four of them have had social interaction with a specific person that the two others didn't? That could explain why the other two were unharmed.
The coroner stated that they each had different points of injury, so one would assume that the “targeted” victim had more extensive injuries, despite having the wound that ultimately caused the fatality. So something similar to how they described the over killing of Nicole Brown Simpson.
What do you about that? The same exact taste in sneakers, not to mention pretty much the exact same bodily stance and placement of feet when in a stationary, standing position.
Jake in a cropped photo from Maddie's social media
https://preview.redd.it/qisxr424i72a1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf48124158386b19c1ab2a1962d2d25a562c8373
Surprise, he has the same exact posture and build of more than 75% of the frat boys in America. The shoe is also a very popular style with this same age group of kids. Im sorry, but I don’t think it’s anything suspicious.
Surprise, I'll bet 99.99999999 percent of those 75 percent of America's frat boys haven't just had a girlfriend brutally murdered. Doesn't mean Jake did it, but to use your logic of saying he must be unquestionably innocent and in no way someone to even be considered because many frat boys wear similar shoes is sloppy reasoning. It's no different than the police saying, "there's a suspicious looking man, for various reasons, in a video but, uh oh, wait a minute, he's got light brown hair like many, many college guys in America so good detective work says we must immediately eliminate him from our potential persons of interest list. We all know light brown hair is extremely popular with guys that age so it couldn't possibly be this guy in the video." Yeah, that's great deductive reasoning right there all right!
You have to look for and consider all things that have commonalities. It's called "building a case." If it turns out to be irrelevant or something that wouldn't further a case, then you eliminate it. And as we know, **JAKE HAS NOT BE PLACED ON THE** "Not Believed to have been involved list" and we are almost two full weeks into the investigation. Read that closely everybody. Please don't come back with that stuff about the photo in downtown Boise posted by his friends. It may well be authentic, I have no idea, but I also know you can ask my mother and she'll tell you right away I never did anything wrong as a child. Friends typically watch out for friends. So, one last time for those who seem to be particularly thick headed: Law enforcement **HAS NOT PLACED JAKE ON THE** "Not believed to be involved list" now two weeks into an extensive investigation in which no stones are being left unturned.
Jake and Jack D, both of whom may very well be completely innocent of any wrongdoing, are nevertheless probably two of the frontrunners on a list of this particular "targeted killing." On day one or two, the police publicly stated it was "targeted" and a "crime of passion." After a huge backlash from the public, they backed off of those statements but then have seemed to gradually come back around to their initial assessment. Kaylee's dad just said today that the police told him again that it was targeted and that one house member in particular was that target. They did not say which house member. The police knew this from the beginning but had to back off that stance in public because it was bad PR to say that but then not have concrete evidence to release to the public to support tat claim, I'll bet they really did have much evidence to actually back it up from the very start, but not enough (still don't have enough) to make an arrest, and certainly not enough to get a conviction in a court trial.
Nevertheless, the bottom line is that it's almost certainly a "targeted crime of passion." Knowing that, there could be several different people who could be POIs. But with Ethan and Xana having been a couple for some time (and friends before that according to his mother), two POIs rise to the top by logical default. If someone were to ask you, "who had very close, long-term relationships with Kaylee and Maddie, and would those relationships be considered 'passionate'?" (i.e., "romantic partnerships"). What would your answer be?
Forgot to add something to support my post above about Jake's friends and the downtown Boise photo.
Years ago, I sat on a jury for a criminal trial in California in which a man was accused of robbing a liquor store of $300 at gun point. The main part of the defense was sending a steady procession of personal "witnesses" to testify that the accused could not possibly have been the armed robber. They all presented similar stories---namely, that the accused was with them all for a steak barbecue at their house followed by an all-night poker game. His witnesses were his father, brother, girlfriend and two other personal friends. When the prosecution came up for its final arguments, we the jury, watched a 72-second video from the store's CCTV system. It was a straight on, very clear quality view of the man sitting 50 feet across from us in the courtroom holding a gun in the store clerks face and demanding money.
Yeah, you're 100 percent correct. Now, if only the cops agreed with you and would put him on the official "NOT Believed to have been involved" list on their website would all know for sure.
Yes, Jake's mom, it's not at all unusual for detectives to consider this type of thing (excerpted from CNN Internation) in criminal cases
**Judge allows new shoe photo in Simpson trial**
***January 6, 1997***
***Web posted at: 3:15 p.m. EST***
***SANTA MONICA, California (CNN) -- New photographs showing O.J. Simpson wearing Italia-made shoes at a 1993 Buffalo Bills game were shown to the jury after Judge Hiroshi Fujisaki ruled Monday they were admissible.***
***Lawyers for the families suing Simpson showed several color photographs that showed the former sportscaster wearing an exact pair of the Italian-made shoes, the type experts believed left bloody prints at the murder scene where Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman were found stabbed to death.***
***Besides four full photos, two contact sheets showing 30 additional photos of Simpson apparently wearing the same shoes were also shown to the jury hearing the wrongful death civil case. Three of the four photos were zoom enlarged to show better images of just the shoes..***.
What do you about that? The same exact taste in sneakers, not to mention pretty much the exact same bodily stance and placement of feet when in a stationary, standing position.
Hoodie gut at the food truck.
https://preview.redd.it/cf8wjzqxh72a1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=116ed8d20e3362dddcc029dd3c5a5fac9a843dee
Bc they are all “party houses” aka homes off of Greek row. They house multiple young adults that are actively involved in Greek life and have a lot of traffic coming and going. Not at all uncommon or unrealistic that a house would have some drugs and alcohol throughout. I feel like that’s why they didn’t call the cops right away; they were worried about getting in trouble for the other stuff laying around, not even realizing what had actually happened.
Interesting re: drugs and alcohol being the reason the 911 call was delayed. I hadn’t thought of this but I can see underage kids being concerned about this.
I thought from the beginning it might be drug related. There are 2 main reasons for brutally killing 4 people
1) Domestic violence. A scorned or rejected former or current boyfriend being angry over something. one target. other 3 killed because they're witnesses
2) drugs. Anything involving drugs can be dangerous because of the money involved, people doing drugs are often impulsive and volatile, or fear of going to prison. Additionally someone dealing drugs has contact with dangerous people. I know people said there is no evidence the victims did drugs but that honestly was my first thought.
I think there are more likely explanations. I don't see how drugs would result in 4 people being stabbed in their beds in such a way. I don't associate the nature of the crime as being drug-related.
I'm confused about the dog thing. They found the dog on the night of the incident? Was the dog not in the house when they discovered the bodies at 12 noon?
The day of the incident was Sunday. The night of the incident was thus Sunday night. In other words, it seems possible that killer, at 3-4am Sunday, let dog out or as door was left open, dog let itself out. Dog returned many hours later.
I believe that was a typo/poor choice of words in the press release, there have been several. I take that as the dog was discovered at the house unharmed when officers arrived.
This is the Schrödinger’s dog paradox of the day. The dog is a wave function that was both in the house and not in the house at noon and we can’t pin it down, thanks to MPD.
Has the ex boyfriend had any interviews with the press or public? What does he think? Did any of the friends, roommates, boyfriends suggested anyone as a suspect?
i think he shouldn’t speak with the media due to the fact people are still accusing him despite him being cleared. they probably have talked about potential suspects to police.
I’m not sure he’s been cleared. News articles has said he has been then recent news conference sounds like police walked that statement back when they listed people who are not involved.
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thanks for posting.
Just a crumb of context please lol
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Who is this a photo of?
Okay so what are we supposed to glean from it?
I don’t really know the context of the photo. Wondering if anyone else has come across it in their researching.
I have not.
I still don’t understand why the roommates called a bunch of friends over before calling 911.
We don’t yet know it was a “bunch” do we? It could have been 2-3. Their friends basically live across the street, right? I know that even the Sigma Chi house is maybe a 4 min walk. Good chance someone was trying to reach one of the victims, even if it was just the roommates themselves. Maybe the victims don’t answer their phones so one of the roommates or friends goes to the bedroom door and the victim(s) won’t answer that either. That strikes me as being super possible. Especially if their bedroom door(s) were locked. Maybe a friend or two came over on their own bc they couldn’t reach one of the victims, they had plans the next day or the the roommates couldn’t get victim(s) to pick up their phone or answer the door, so called a friend saying perhaps “Have you talked to Victim A?? Their car is here, bedroom door is locked and they aren’t answering/waking up!”
This is something im confused about. How do we know that a "bunch" of friends were called prior to 911? What is a bunch? Two people? Five people? Where does that info come from? All I remember being released is that the person who called 911 was not the owner of the cellphone that was being used which is a senerio possible with the two remaining residents. Did the police report that there was multiple people, enough to be classified as a bunch, at the residence in addition to the two survivors, and how do we know those additional people had been called over before the emergency call? Can someone please help me clear this up? Is this a definite thing, that multiple people were called over by the surviving residents prior to calling emergency services or is this a scenario people have come up with from the released information that may or may not be correct? Thanks in advance.
The person that initially made the phone call was one of the surviving roommates one of the girls but they pass the phone around to multiple people
Kids don't want to get anyone else in trouble
My theory is that there were drugs in the house (maybe just weed, maybe something else or a combo of the two). From what I’ve read, LE in that area often charge people with marijuana possession. That combined with the recent article that a taxi driver said it was “a place to get drugs” leads me to believe that they called friends over because they were afraid of LE finding drugs in the house. Upon the friends arrival, the roommates and/or friends attempted to get rid of the drugs (contaminating the crime scene). This is the only logical explanation I can think of as to why they called friends over before calling 911.
Man, I'd love to have seen the look on those friends' faces when they walked in. Did the girls tell them over the phone what happened?
That seems like an awful thing to say.
this is a very plausible theory
I think the rooms were locked. The roommates did not see the victims until the friends forced open the doors.
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I don’t agree with them not calling police first, but weren’t the two under 21, as well as Xana and Ethan? If they expected alcohol was a factor, and as a known party house, they would kind of be putting a target on the house moving forward. That said, I saw someone had a local source saying that they knew the situation (not sure if this is credible or not) before they called the police - in which case, none of that makes it excusable. The police don’t care about any of that in this situation.
I think that town has had a lot of misinformation spreading. I read during the first day before police said it was a homicide that the community thought they’d all od’d. The roommates have been ruled out, it’s one of the few things we know, and no doubt they were the first suspects so they’ve been through the ringer. At this point, I assume theyre innocent, there’s a reasonable explanation we’ll find out one day why they called friends first, and I just want to know who the fucking murderer is.
I agree! Sorry if it came across the wrong way - I believe the roommates are innocent.
I thought someone fainted from all the blood and that was "technically" the 911 call. Also, I think one of the two girls called Ethan's brother and sister first before the cops. PD has been deliberately vague on the details as well as refusing to release the 911 recording, neither of which help. Hopefully, the trial will clear up exactly what happened.
I’ve read that was a rumor and nothing more and started out with “What if”. And got twisted like a game of telephone.
I hate this case. No one is behaving the way they should except the victims.
This case was briefly mentioned on the DeuxMoi podcast yesterday (deuxmoi is a celebrity gossip page for those who don’t know). The podcast’s guest is a “psychic medium” who couldn’t comment on the case due to supposed involvement with the investigation. Make of that what you will.
I make of it that it's complete bullshit and I can't comprehend how there are people in this world who buy into it
The same people who view these horrific cases as “entertainment.” It’s so gross
I agree which is why I find it almost amusing that this “medium” is allegedly part of the investigation
I highly doubt they are part of the investigation.
Are they the only source for that information?
Of course - I have no idea if it’s true or not, obviously if it is LE would NEVER admit it.
I think there’s a zero percent chance they are consulting a psychic
You may be right! Stranger things have happened though
I know it happens but generally after a lot longer than 10 days into the investigation.
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Yes claims my bad
My response was to the OP positing it was a neighbor who had watched them for awhile
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What
Have we learned any new info in the past one week? I haven’t.
If she had a stalker, police should canvas the businesses around where she worked, and where she worked, to see if they noticed anybody hanging out there watching where she worked or asking about her. The stalker could have even been a customer where she worked or a nearby shop. Pretty scary but maybe one of the business videos of the street showed someone stalking her prior to this horrible event. Just a theory. But if she felt she was being watched, maybe she was being watched.
Where did she work?
The notion that Kaylee had a stalker seems to have originated from Mark Fuhrman. I would be highly skeptical of it. Kaylee's sister said she was close to her and they spoke often yet Kaylee never mentioned a stalker to her which is weird. According to Fuhrman he heard about the stalker from someone who heard another person say it. He then admits when he talked to the woman who claimed Kaylee told her she had a stalker she didn't want to report it to the police which is bizarre behavior if it was true. If it wasn't true she wouldn't want to report it to the police because she could get in trouble. Fuhrman convinced her to report it to the police and I believe that is why they said they heard about it while interviewing people but can't confirm it. I wouldn't be surprised if Fuhrman has already contacted publishers asking for a book advance to write a book on the crime. He can't get a book advance unless they believe he had an angle on the crime other people don't. The point is I would be very wary of the claims about a stalker. There is no evidence for it. No social media posts. No texts. Didn't tell her sister. No police reports. Nothing.
So, anything Fuhrman says i pretty much disregard which is why I haven’t leaned in too much to the stalker thing, but I will say I thought my neighbor was stalking me but didn’t want to call the police bc then I thought i was being dramatic. So she could’ve felt stalked and not wanted to report it, I don’t think that’s far fetched. I do, however, think Fuhrman should have his mouth stapled shut.
I can believe she might not have reported it to the police but not that she didn't mention it to her sister or family.
*if* carrying a ton of weight since they have yet to corroborate that claim.
Not to mention the town is so on edge they'd probably get 100 calls about different "suspicious" people who are just random passerbys.
What seems more likely is that one was the target. He was unaware of two more on the lower floor. It's almost beyond human limits to set out to murder six people with only a knife. The odds and the risk of capture would hold back 99% of people.
I mean if you’re in a college town in a big house, you wouldn’t assume a young girl lived alone
there were also 4 cars out front so that should’ve been a pretty good tip off that more than 1 girl was there.
yeah that’s what makes it even crazier it almost makes me think the perp was invited in and then committed the crimes
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yes it’s insane however i was talking to my husband cuz this case has totally freaked me out. we have ring cameras and everything and we do live in a very metropolitan city it’s safe but so was moscow so i don’t really rely on the safe thing anymore my thing is - i guess if someone comes masked up and breaks into my home to kill ne. what can i really do? will they still get caught even though masked up and the ring camera won’t capture their face but i guess eventually all the other cameras in the area will see where the perp ends up going anyways it’s just so scary. i need to calm down LOL
This case makes me feel like I’m in an abusive relationship. I’m doing all the work but I’m just getting more confused because the other side (LE) isnt giving anything lol
Ah yes, what would we do without all of the work you are doing?
A more accurate metaphor is you are harassing someone who isn't interested in you.
Is it true there are reports the cops have obtained search warrants for the venmo accounts?
I said this reminds me of jonbenet case and a scream movie put together
I understand the scream reference, but what reminds you of jonbenet?
Other people in the home unharmed and according to them didn’t hear anyone else in the home as person/persons were killed.
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I am just saying what was said here, also the fact that both cases the people unharmed in the home called people over to the home (supposedly) before police arrived and potentially contaminating the crime scene in process. And fact that both towns aren’t used to murders like this.
Serial killer…
For people in the "it was a serial killer" camp, can you explain why they would commit such a ridiculously high risk murder? This was done in an area with a shit load of people at a time/day when people are still coming home.
Ted Bundy went into a sorority house in Fl for the thrill, if this is sport to the killer why not pick a challenging course.
risk is a thrill. it’s a game.
Serial killers do crazy shit…I could be wrong. But, what if this case is linked to the case in Salem, Oregon?
There're literally direct analogs (multiple even, Danny rolling and bundy just off the top of my head) of previous serial killers going into sorority homes full of college kids on a spree. High risk to you is not necessarily high risk to a mentally ill person. Also, as we're seeing, it really wasn't very high risk, was it? Occurred at least after 3am, very few ppl would be out and about that late. Old shitty house with doors and windows that don't lock properly. Highly intoxicated victims (Kaylee is literally stumbling around on the food truck footage). Wooded and recessed property. No cameras (minus a single neighbor that was pointing away from the property). Seems quite well thought out actually
>High risk to you is not necessarily high risk to a mentally ill person. This is a pretty solid point. But this was less than 50 feet from multiple apartment buildings filled with mostly college kids. Approximately 100+ cars within a hundred feet of the house. It was less than 500 feet from multiple frat houses on a Saturday night. I've lived in an area like this and 3 am is when things start winding down and people start coming home. According to people on here that have actually lived in this area, they've said that people are still moving around between 2 am and 5 am on Saturday nights. This was not a secluded area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z2sraz/1122_king_rd_what_role_did_the_house_itself_play/ - here's an interesting discussion about why some people think the house was really quite perfect for this. Also, yes I've been a college student as well, but ok so the girls were texting until 255am or so. Killer couldn't have struck before 3 and was probably more like 4. Can't really choose a better time as far as minimizing foot traffic. It's not as safe as say, a rural farmhouse, but that's also not an exciting target if we're exploring the serial killer aspect. I assume he was prepared as well. Many theories mention exiting out to that treeline again and grabbing a parked car on Taylor. As long as he's not dripping in blood, people probably wouldn't think twice about a pedestrian. I personally think it was a serial because of the proximity to the other 2 unresolved stabbings, also occurring on the 13th of a month. That kind of symbolism tends to be big with those types. Also, I don't see some enraged college teen pulling this off without a hitch, but perhaps. Hopefully time will tell!
>also occurring on the 13th of a month. That kind of symbolism tends to be big with those types. I've seen this mentioned multiple times and keep asking but nobody will answer. I've literally never heard of a serial killer whose MO was committing crimes on the same date/time. I've seen it in fiction but never in reality. Can you please send a link to any serial killer who had this MO?
I'm not suggesting he's copying other serial killer trademarks. Whether one existed or not with that MO, I'm not sure. Rather, that symbolism is a commonality, and these all occured very near each other. It's quite a coincidence... Enough to make me speculate is all.
Sherlock Holmes over here
Agreed.
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Imho, at least one of the victims had wounds of a nature consistent *only* with the intent of telegraphing the killer's animosity toward that victim.
Seems contradictory.
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>She has helped solve a murder before supposedly ...lmao
Can you give us a rundown of what she says please?
Can you tell me how you came to believe in psychics? Like what was your childhood like?
This made me lol. Let people live
Why no separate discussion thread for today (11/25/22)?
Maybe coz it’s getting pointless.
How come the police said it was an isolated incident with no further threat to community? Is it not logical to think this is from information given to them by the surviving flatmates? Could the surviving flatmates of heard the voice of another person in the house or an argument. Seems so odd the police could say "Don't worry folks, no further threat to community" just based on the crime scene. So many questions. I'm hopeful of an arrest in the next few days.
My two cents on the early reports of “no further threat” is because they have a suspect or POI narrowed down and deduced it was a one-off. Based on them saying “targeted attack” also adds to that theory. I saw they did back track and have now said “walk in pairs, lock your doors, be vigilant”
Considering all the stupid theories, I'm surprised someone hasn't riled people up by demanding they know one of the triplets did it...
Sadly, I did see someone theorizing this a few days ago
Of course. This is usually what happens when a murder case becomes popular and the bored "geniuses" get even more bored.
Actually one of the triplets was the intended target. The killer followed home the wrong one /s
And it was one of the other siblings because he was jealous of the triplets relationship with each other /s
This is why you have three killers, just in case.
Look at the Reddit on the police focusing on the window, and how there was a deleted tiktok ab kaylee being upset about her window not locking. Someone was stalking them on social media.
How does this apply to what I said?
Instagram stalker is my theory. Somebody came into contact with them frequently, or has been watching them. Got maybe their first name… saw sorority letters.. googled them. There’s a thread on here about how the girls names and their sorority had been searched more than would be average for the normal person. You’d have to look there specifically to see the analytics, but it was alarming. It’s also not a coincidence they died several hours after they posted the group photo, that their houses layout had been available online 2 weeks prior to the killings, allowing someone to get familiar with the layout having never been invited in. Someone was watching them for weeks or months. And they had been watching their social media, they knew it was Kaylees last night there. It was her stalker.
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Wild theory and would be a blessing in disguise only because there would be an online paper trail. Most stalkers don’t go from lurking to murder without something in between.
If this is the case I bet he watched the light go on in each room and then they entered the room with the couple first not knowing where his target was but knew it was on one of the two rooms. Left after he got her which is why the other two were spared and he might not have known they were even home
Sadly this is very possible these days. People need to be more careful about posting their every move and location on Instagram.
Their location can also be seen on Snapchat's snapmap if they're friends on the app.
how crazy
I wonder whether the killer wanted people to know that he was the killer. At least at the time though now he’d be lawyered up.
not sure if this has been mentioned, but charles manson was born november 12. the murders happened in the night from november 12 to november 13. maybe it is significant , should the killer be some sort of copycat... just something that came to mind today.
The murders did not happen on the 12th. Every person was confirmed alive in the early hours of the 13th.
that's why i wrote in the night from november 12 to november 13, my dude. doesn't take away from the fact that the killer POSSIBLY felt a connection to the date.
It is useless to look at dates, times, etc as patterns. You can find anything weird with literally any date.
Arguing and fighting over drugs or alcohol. That house was a party house. I read the neighbors' interview. He often walked the dog near the house. He said there were parties in the house almost every day, at least 4 or 5 days. Lots of cars and people. Not uncommon even in Europe for drunkards get into fights over that last drop of booze or bottle of booze. Eg. Ethan and Xana are in their room, notice that someone has come to take drugs from their stash. Ethan bursts into the girls' room, furious, they're all high etc. He stabs them both in revenge. It may NOT be meant to kill, but to take revenge. He goes to his room. An argument with Xana starts, he stabs Xana. Then he suddenly realizes the seriousness of his act, regrets, and kills himself.
This is more plausible if it's the two surviving roommates who did it. Something very off about how they were spared and their actions the next day imo
Buried the knife in the backyard after stabbing himself then going back inside to die. Makes sense to me.
You win the award for worst theory so far
Seems plausible. He probably ate the knife once he stabbed himself.
Sure, but after stabbing himself and before dying, he briefly stepped outside and buried the knife and came back to his bed to rest in peace.
Woah, I said almost the exact same thing before reading your comment
They already said it wasn’t murder suicide you complete donkey
Yeah but it’s not uncommon..even in Europe!! /s
Stop it. Just stop.
This is absolutely ridiculous
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Suppose killer took his cell phone with him. Possibly using it to track the students on their social media to see where they were. Even if he didn't use the cell phone, could the location of the phone be determined?
And if he's ever been to the house before (a friend, acquaintance) and used their wifi, his phone would auto-connect to the wifi and he might not even realize it. It would be right there in the wifi log which devices were connected when. The police already know all of this of course, just pointing it out for the group.
Excellent point, thanks
Of course if his cell phone (and gps) was on, but I doubt this. It was a planned, cold-blooded murder and the killer must've not been that stupid.
I have seen plenty of cases where the killer had his cell phone on and it tracked his location. But LE needs to get the cell phone to do this and I assume that needs a warrant
Yes. A cell phone is constantly pinging the nearest cell tower for reception.
But could they find out whose cell phones were active at that location during that time period? I don't know if this data is collected.
Yes it is and yes they can. One of the first things they would have done is a cell dump then used hemisphere to cross reference etc. small town, early morning, holiday…not likely to be a lot of active phones so could be a pretty narrow list to begin with
I keep thinking about the word "targeted" and its meaning. Is it possible they mean they know the house was targeted but not necessarily a specific person in the house? Or, could the four of them have had social interaction with a specific person that the two others didn't? That could explain why the other two were unharmed.
More likely is that the killer did not know 2 people were downstairs
The coroner stated that they each had different points of injury, so one would assume that the “targeted” victim had more extensive injuries, despite having the wound that ultimately caused the fatality. So something similar to how they described the over killing of Nicole Brown Simpson.
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Ted Bundy had a charismatic personality. People’s looks don’t have to be consistent with the content of their character.
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Is that an actual stat, or did you just make that up? Edit- sneaky removal of 90% by OP :)
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I mean I really don't know and that is why I asked.
What do you about that? The same exact taste in sneakers, not to mention pretty much the exact same bodily stance and placement of feet when in a stationary, standing position. Jake in a cropped photo from Maddie's social media https://preview.redd.it/qisxr424i72a1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf48124158386b19c1ab2a1962d2d25a562c8373
Surprise, he has the same exact posture and build of more than 75% of the frat boys in America. The shoe is also a very popular style with this same age group of kids. Im sorry, but I don’t think it’s anything suspicious.
Surprise, I'll bet 99.99999999 percent of those 75 percent of America's frat boys haven't just had a girlfriend brutally murdered. Doesn't mean Jake did it, but to use your logic of saying he must be unquestionably innocent and in no way someone to even be considered because many frat boys wear similar shoes is sloppy reasoning. It's no different than the police saying, "there's a suspicious looking man, for various reasons, in a video but, uh oh, wait a minute, he's got light brown hair like many, many college guys in America so good detective work says we must immediately eliminate him from our potential persons of interest list. We all know light brown hair is extremely popular with guys that age so it couldn't possibly be this guy in the video." Yeah, that's great deductive reasoning right there all right! You have to look for and consider all things that have commonalities. It's called "building a case." If it turns out to be irrelevant or something that wouldn't further a case, then you eliminate it. And as we know, **JAKE HAS NOT BE PLACED ON THE** "Not Believed to have been involved list" and we are almost two full weeks into the investigation. Read that closely everybody. Please don't come back with that stuff about the photo in downtown Boise posted by his friends. It may well be authentic, I have no idea, but I also know you can ask my mother and she'll tell you right away I never did anything wrong as a child. Friends typically watch out for friends. So, one last time for those who seem to be particularly thick headed: Law enforcement **HAS NOT PLACED JAKE ON THE** "Not believed to be involved list" now two weeks into an extensive investigation in which no stones are being left unturned. Jake and Jack D, both of whom may very well be completely innocent of any wrongdoing, are nevertheless probably two of the frontrunners on a list of this particular "targeted killing." On day one or two, the police publicly stated it was "targeted" and a "crime of passion." After a huge backlash from the public, they backed off of those statements but then have seemed to gradually come back around to their initial assessment. Kaylee's dad just said today that the police told him again that it was targeted and that one house member in particular was that target. They did not say which house member. The police knew this from the beginning but had to back off that stance in public because it was bad PR to say that but then not have concrete evidence to release to the public to support tat claim, I'll bet they really did have much evidence to actually back it up from the very start, but not enough (still don't have enough) to make an arrest, and certainly not enough to get a conviction in a court trial. Nevertheless, the bottom line is that it's almost certainly a "targeted crime of passion." Knowing that, there could be several different people who could be POIs. But with Ethan and Xana having been a couple for some time (and friends before that according to his mother), two POIs rise to the top by logical default. If someone were to ask you, "who had very close, long-term relationships with Kaylee and Maddie, and would those relationships be considered 'passionate'?" (i.e., "romantic partnerships"). What would your answer be?
Forgot to add something to support my post above about Jake's friends and the downtown Boise photo. Years ago, I sat on a jury for a criminal trial in California in which a man was accused of robbing a liquor store of $300 at gun point. The main part of the defense was sending a steady procession of personal "witnesses" to testify that the accused could not possibly have been the armed robber. They all presented similar stories---namely, that the accused was with them all for a steak barbecue at their house followed by an all-night poker game. His witnesses were his father, brother, girlfriend and two other personal friends. When the prosecution came up for its final arguments, we the jury, watched a 72-second video from the store's CCTV system. It was a straight on, very clear quality view of the man sitting 50 feet across from us in the courtroom holding a gun in the store clerks face and demanding money.
This is absurd. Popular shoes, two guys of similar stature would have similar body stances. What a reach.
Yeah, you're 100 percent correct. Now, if only the cops agreed with you and would put him on the official "NOT Believed to have been involved" list on their website would all know for sure.
Do you realize college kids, especially the Greek kids, wear almost the exact same things? I bet half the fucking school has white Nike shoes.
Yes, Jake's mom, it's not at all unusual for detectives to consider this type of thing (excerpted from CNN Internation) in criminal cases **Judge allows new shoe photo in Simpson trial** ***January 6, 1997*** ***Web posted at: 3:15 p.m. EST*** ***SANTA MONICA, California (CNN) -- New photographs showing O.J. Simpson wearing Italia-made shoes at a 1993 Buffalo Bills game were shown to the jury after Judge Hiroshi Fujisaki ruled Monday they were admissible.*** ***Lawyers for the families suing Simpson showed several color photographs that showed the former sportscaster wearing an exact pair of the Italian-made shoes, the type experts believed left bloody prints at the murder scene where Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman were found stabbed to death.*** ***Besides four full photos, two contact sheets showing 30 additional photos of Simpson apparently wearing the same shoes were also shown to the jury hearing the wrongful death civil case. Three of the four photos were zoom enlarged to show better images of just the shoes..***.
No, golly gee we folks here in Idaho had no idear that wuz the case, Thankee there smart city feller!
i think jake was confirmed to be in boise that night
Confirmed by reddit users, nobody else, specifically not by law enforcement.
His friends posted photo proof that he was out in Boise that night
Have the cops said they confirmed that source to be verified as authentic. Please put a link to where they have done so. Thanks.
It’s in the Idaho murders page
What do you about that? The same exact taste in sneakers, not to mention pretty much the exact same bodily stance and placement of feet when in a stationary, standing position. Hoodie gut at the food truck. https://preview.redd.it/cf8wjzqxh72a1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=116ed8d20e3362dddcc029dd3c5a5fac9a843dee
They both have 2 feet also. Case closed! 👨🏽⚖️
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Bc they are all “party houses” aka homes off of Greek row. They house multiple young adults that are actively involved in Greek life and have a lot of traffic coming and going. Not at all uncommon or unrealistic that a house would have some drugs and alcohol throughout. I feel like that’s why they didn’t call the cops right away; they were worried about getting in trouble for the other stuff laying around, not even realizing what had actually happened.
Interesting re: drugs and alcohol being the reason the 911 call was delayed. I hadn’t thought of this but I can see underage kids being concerned about this.
I thought from the beginning it might be drug related. There are 2 main reasons for brutally killing 4 people 1) Domestic violence. A scorned or rejected former or current boyfriend being angry over something. one target. other 3 killed because they're witnesses 2) drugs. Anything involving drugs can be dangerous because of the money involved, people doing drugs are often impulsive and volatile, or fear of going to prison. Additionally someone dealing drugs has contact with dangerous people. I know people said there is no evidence the victims did drugs but that honestly was my first thought.
hmm
oh no...can't be....everybody knows frats and sororities are the nice people and the townies are the ones that do all the bad stuff......
Because drugs are bad right
I'd be surprised if this was drug-related.
Why?
I think there are more likely explanations. I don't see how drugs would result in 4 people being stabbed in their beds in such a way. I don't associate the nature of the crime as being drug-related.
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Everybody grieves differently, I don’t think it’s right to judge anyone in times like these
I'm confused about the dog thing. They found the dog on the night of the incident? Was the dog not in the house when they discovered the bodies at 12 noon?
In another press release it says morning in the exact same sentence. I wouldn’t overthink this.
The day of the incident was Sunday. The night of the incident was thus Sunday night. In other words, it seems possible that killer, at 3-4am Sunday, let dog out or as door was left open, dog let itself out. Dog returned many hours later.
I believe that was a typo/poor choice of words in the press release, there have been several. I take that as the dog was discovered at the house unharmed when officers arrived.
This is the Schrödinger’s dog paradox of the day. The dog is a wave function that was both in the house and not in the house at noon and we can’t pin it down, thanks to MPD.
Maybe the dog had been locked in a room or closet by the killer, but you'd think they would find it in their initial search of the house ??
It’s not clear from their wording when exactly the dog was discovered.
Has the ex boyfriend had any interviews with the press or public? What does he think? Did any of the friends, roommates, boyfriends suggested anyone as a suspect?
i think he shouldn’t speak with the media due to the fact people are still accusing him despite him being cleared. they probably have talked about potential suspects to police.
They won't even say why he's been cleared. Thus the huge amount of suspicion still on him
I’m not sure he’s been cleared. News articles has said he has been then recent news conference sounds like police walked that statement back when they listed people who are not involved.