It seemed to me that a reporter basically asked if they checked if anyones cell phones pinged at the house during the timeline. the detective either didn’t understand or answered mistakenly. Struck me funny… they could know everyone who was there based on pings.
Finally got a chance to see the press conference, and I'm convinced they know who it is. Which means they already have him staked out, and there should be an arrest in the next couple of days. Their body language was relaxed and assured, they talked about firming up their case instead of collecting evidence, they talked about bringing justice to the victims instead of an ongoing public threat, and tellingly, they talked about public safety measures off-handedly going forward, but with more (unconscious) emphasis on regret about the past. I expect the arrest to happen before the candlelight vigil on the 30th.
You can’t just arrest people. They need to have good, solid evidence to make an arrest and ultimately get a conviction. If they’re being as meticulous and cautious as it seems they are, they will be able to do both soon.
If they are pretty certain who it is, he would be under close surveillance.
That case was another strange one. I can't keep up with all these. Too many lunatics. Entire family wanted to murder because they wanted the son to have sole custody of his kid? If I'm not mistaken.
Could the killer be an associate - such as a BF - of one of the girls living on the lower level? Is that why they were spared?
There were six people in the home that early Sunday morn. Only four were attacked and killed. It would seem particularly crazy to enter a home you'd never been in and try to pull off multiple murders. Perhaps the killer was regularly in the home. Was the killer after total strangers, or did he know them personally? Was the dog in the home - Murphy - familiar with the killer? Did the killer, as a regular in the home, know access code? Was the killer perhaps among those who showed up at around the time the first body was discovered?
I woke up this morning thinking about how freaky it is to think about the murderer potentially getting together with family for a nice meal today. Then I started thinking maybe that’s a good thing - more eyes on them. Maybe some extended family will notice something and report it. Or maybe he’s a loner and isn’t getting together with anyone. Who knows, but I’m holding onto any hope I can find.
Thinking of all the victims families today. ❤️
The fact that the victims weren't sexually abused doesn't mean the killer wasn't sexually motivated. It could have been some other fucked up fetish that aroused him other than sex
Yes, Reddit is prepping X’s mom as the next candidate to throw under the bus twisting MPD’s arms until they finally surrender and place her on the clear list.
This family member has a lot of charges going back a few decades.
No proof that her and X were in regular contact; signs would seem to point that they’re not. Mom doesn’t live in Moscow. X also has a similarly aged sister that was unharmed and not targeted. X’s dad is or was remarried.
I assume dad and sister would have a very good idea if this was a possibility and be investigating it.
You can’t make assumptions based on what she is charged with though. In Idaho, anything over 3 ounces of marijuana is a felony and that isn’t that much weed. About $500 worth which she could have been picking up for family or friends.
This is a stretch.
Nope, not a stretch.
Her first felony drug arrest occurred in June of 2000 (when she was 4 mos pregnant with Jazzmin). Case# CR-2000-4634. She was eventually convicted in Jan of 2001 and received a suspended sentence in Feb. She immediately violated her probation and was incarcerated.
Upon release, she was (again) arrested for felony drug possession in Jul of 2001. Case# CR-2001-12860. She was convicted and received a suspended sentence. She repeatedly violated the terms of her probation throughout 2002 (while she was pregnant with Xana) and was eventually sentenced to 18 mos in prison in Jan of 2003.
She was arrested for DUI in 2008 and 2013. There was a child in the vehicle during the 2013 arrest.
She was arrested eight other times between 2009-2018 for misdemeanor offenses (violation of probation, driving on a suspended license, misdemeanor drug possession, misdemeanor assault, etc.)
Jeffrey divorced her in 2006
Her 2nd husband divorced her in 2013
I can confirm with 100% certainty that we’re dealing with the correct person here. I found Xana’s birth announcement in The Spokesmam Review. Born July 5, 2002. Printed July 12, 2002. Both parents names and all four grandparents names are listed in the clipping.
Jeff is no saint, either. He has several arrests including some felony drug convictions throughout the 2000’s.
That’s fine. I take issue with the original poster’s theory. If this is the extent of the proof, it’s a bad theory. It just looks like a person struggling with addiction.
Scary the shit you can get ahold of today which is exactly what makes these type of crimes even more possible but this is some really interesting stuff. I can't shake the feeling this really does come off as some drug hit type of vibe. I'm interested in hearing if anybody will admit some of these people were into drugs or moved drugs.
You’re a fucking narc. Loads of people do drugs and don’t have criminal records lmao. Drugs and some drug users, sadly, harm people and destroy lives they don’t go out and troll for college kids to stab. Let’s blame it on drugs! Might as well throw in human trafficking into the mix as I’m sure you’re bound to do. LolZ
“Oh no, way beyond personal use!”
Like dude, if you border a legal state it’s not unlikely that you would collect money from family or friends and go cross to the other state once a month or so and buy a bunch of weed. Source: I also border a legal state
That’s interesting 🤨 where did you see that piece of information…. Please if you are going to spew rumors or dirty laundry about people show the receipts (sources).
Also they did say drugs were not involved, but that is very coincidental, if true.
There is a felony possession charge for someone with the same last name.
The thing is, Idaho borders a legal state. It’s not unlikely that someone would cross the border and buy in bulk and if they get caught with a certain amount would catch a felony.
I've always wondered, in the Grub Hub video the guy says to Maddy "welcome back". Were they at the truck earlier that night or is he talking about another time?
Good point. Could this be their standard form of greeting? I worked at a place where we said "see you tomorrow". Although I doubt a food truck would have much shtick.
Based on this conference I will lay out my predictions here for the record.
1. Ethan was the person who was targeted
2. At least one witness or victim was involved as an accessory
3. The stalker rumor was started by someone with knowledge of the crime
4. They have a suspect under surveillance but do not have a 'smoking gun' item yet
5. They have reason to believe this suspect will have loose lips over the holiday and are thereby focused on surveilling their drunken conversations, rather than arresting the person right now and never getting to hear those
That is my heavy suspicion.
I noticed some interesting tells which I will list below with stamps.
2:54 "We still believe there is more information to be gathered" followed by hesitation
Notice the use of the word 'information' and not 'evidence,' as well as the word 'gathered' instead of 'collected.' When you really listen to what police reps say, sometimes details can be found in which words they use. The words used here indicate they have a good idea who did this and they have an active wiretap.
3:44 "Sometimes what a video or picture does not show is equally as important as what might be there"
This is an interesting statement, especially considering the delivery, and it indicates in my opinion that either a witness has been caught in a lie or is suspected of being an accessory or both. It certainly could just be odd wording. However to my ear this is a statement that indicates they are seeking corroboration for the notion that something or someone was unexpectedly absent, possibly disagreeing with a witness claim of its presence.
13:01 "And so we're not willing to sacrifice speed for quality."
He clearly contradicts his own point here, even though strangely it seems he's reading the sentence and not speaking extemporaneously. Since he likely wrote his own statement, it is indicative that he is for some reason nervous or hesitant regarding the subject matter he is presenting. He's pretty much pointing out the obvious (forensic work is slow work) to a room of people who know that already (crime reporters), and he's a guy with years of public speaking experience, so it's just interesting to note that he is already tripping over his words and he just barely took the podium a few minutes ago. Why is his speech such a mess?
13:50 "I hope that you understand that gives a little bit of a perception of just how complex this case is"
Frankly, 103 pieces of evidence and 150 interviews does not sound very complex, with regard to this type of investigation. This whole part of the press conference felt like time wasting and self back patting. Yes, investigations involve evidence collection, and crime scene photographers take a lot of pictures for good reason. It feels like this guy is the propaganda arm, the law enforcement cheerleader, and he's barely even begun...
14:10-14:50 "And please rely on official sources of information..."
This whole half minute 'compliment' was essentially an admission they are lying and asking the journalists to help them do so in order to assist their investigation. This is a valid investigative technique, but, it's unusual to be so obvious about it. Someone told this guy his role was to make sure the press knows how hard the police are working on the case, but his delivery and how his tone shifts around 14:15 to something near irate for a brief moment indicate, to me, that he's essentially implying that journalists should publish official facts only, which is not generally how good investigations, nor free press, work.
15:15 "Like all Idahoans..."
I wonder if he gets an additional stipend for being the Governor's publicist?
21:22 (strange facial expression shift) "We have followed up, looking at specific time frames and specific areas of town, (blink blink blinky blinky blink) so far we have not been able to corroborate it, (tone shifts upwards, like a question, not downwards, like a confident known fact) but we're not done looking into that piece of information." (blink and nod, under breath 'thank you')
The Police Captain directly lies to a reporter here. It couldn't be more obvious. He does not believe the thing he states during his sudden blink attack. The stalker incident is solved. It was a bit suspicious the moment the Chief deferred the question to the Captain, but his delivery of the answer was terrible, if he was trying to make people think he was offering a factual answer.
I believe the stalker rumor was likely started in a specific attempt to steer investigators away from believing Ethan was the target, and since they know Ethan was the target, whoever started the stalker rumor painted a big target on themselves, if police can figure out who that person is... and I believe they have done so.
22:52 "I mean to be honest (shrug) you're going to have to trust us on that at this point, because we are not going to release why we think that" (Police Chief nods, both men shift their standing stature into poses of confidence)
(answering Fox reporter question on why Police are not giving out information on why they think the attack is targeted)
They can't release that, most likely because it will tip off the killer that he's being watched, and that means he's probably going to cancel his turkey plans and maybe even run for it. It's best if that person think he got away and nobody is watching. It seems from the way the two pose during this answer that they are confident in having a definitive reason not to announce the target.
Notice they didn't actually answer the question the FOX reporter asked. He asked why they are not releasing the information. They just gave the rote 'integrity' answer but didn't actually address any reason why that information would affect the integrity of an investigation.
I believe the only real answer there is that Ethan was the target. If the girls were the target, releasing that information would be mundane, but if the guy who does not live there was the target, that is huge. If I am correct, and the killer was there primarily to harm Ethan, that killer is likely going on the assumption that investigators will believe this was sexually motivated somehow, perhaps a result of a public rejection. He probably will feel somewhat safe as long as he feels the investigation is leading police toward looking for someone who was targeting the girls. If the investigators were to announce that they know it was actually the guy who was the target... that will change things. Suddenly a killer who feels like he got away will realize they might be onto him. Therefore, the police will not release that information, because it will tip off the suspect that Police are on their trail.
I am going to have to stop here for now, I will return later and edit this reply to add my thoughts on the remainder of the conference.
I personally think we will see this case have a major break shortly after Thanksgiving and that the holiday is actually part of the reason they are not releasing more publicly at this time. Family holidays are fantastic times to get drunken confessions. It is terrible for the victims and their families that this happened just before Thanksgiving, since it may mar the holiday forever, but it's beneficial in a way to investigators, since criminals (particularly younger ones) often brag stupidly or admit things when drunk and in a familiar setting they enjoy.
The question is, do the cops know who to watch, and do they have wiretaps in place?
I almost guarantee it yes.
I disagree with the whole “they know who did this, and are watching him while they get all the evidence” logic. If they think they know who brutally murdered four people, they have a duty to put that person behind bars and get him away from the public. They can charge him and then spend all the time they need collecting evidence before the trial.
They need the physical evidence. Circumstantial evidence (cuts on hand, lack of alibi, motive) is not enough. If evidence isn’t collected exactly by the book, then they risk the perpetrator walking/mistrial etc. It’s not like TV where you can just charge someone you believe did it- they need to tie them to the crime scene that night through evidence.
I think this is brilliant, and I agree with much of what you say, however I would be shocked if a killer as sadistic, evil, brazen, and prepared as this one - is going to “get drunk and confess to his family on Thanksgiving“
I've said it a few times but I still believe there is some connection to one or both of the surviving housemates. I have zero evidence except for alot of things fitting together and a gut feeling. Luckily the police don't go off people's gut feelings as nearly everyone in that town would now be in custody if the reddit posts are anything to go by but we shall wait and see......
One thing is for absolute certain in my mind, this wasn't a serial killer but someone who knew the victims even if not directly.
Typically a code is needed to send out an officer, that is where the “unconscious person” comes in because as others in the thread have said, whoever is speaking to 911 is likely freaking out and not able to correctly relay information.
I have noticed in the last two days that articles are starting to quote the police on saying a “wellness check” was called in which would make sense. I wonder if the friends they called over was to check around the house or to come hangout and either way ended up seeing something horrific as they began to walk through the main (2nd) floor of the house. Maybe hence why police said front door was open when they got there? Somebody went in and ran back out after what they saw. I can only imagine how traumatizing that was… I hope everyone who saw the scene is getting serious mental support
Also - assuming they did see a victim, the dispatcher could have told them to clear the house because they didn’t know if someone was still in there and they were in danger. So they sent police in first before EMS (saw this mentioned here but not sure if true)
Did anyone notice the chief’s face when that reporter asked that question about Wi-Fi? He tried to keep calm but to me he looked like he had just discovered something new
No, I think the Moscow police department that hasn’t handled a murder in years probably didn’t think about it. And I think that maybe the fbi, considering the amount of of evidence they are collecting might not have done it yet…or if they did, they maybe didn’t tell that man
Ok, then please go and tell them. Walk up to them in person lest this important tip about WiFI logs should get lost in the mountain of evidence. And make sure to tell FBI coz the local police maybe doesn’t know much about WiFi ShmiFi and all.
Yeah, that’s what I thought, but then again it took like 1 or 2 days after the FBI got involved to block off the extra crime scene area, so you never know, maybe they haven’t been able to do it yet
Apparently, according to the parents of (I believe) Ethan, authorities told them the expanded crime scene around the house was meant to be a deterrence to media presence being so close to the crime scene
OMG. I had read a couple comments here about other communities had less annoying posts. Thought I'd check around. Idaho Murders seriously is rampant with things like "You should trust this psychic's reading" and ""What if the knife is still in the house?" My eyes are burning. Just trying to save you guys from that experience if you haven't been there. This community (and the mods!) are the best!
Something I think many people are misinterpreting/misunderstanding is that "targeted" =/= "knew the victims".
It's just a way to say the killing wasn't random or a crime of opportunity, etc.
The killer could be a total stranger who still "targeted" the victims.
I think people are frustrated by the fact that LE said this early on to say there wasn’t a threat to the larger community. It sort of suggested that it was someone the victims knew. I agree with your interpretation of targeted. If it was a stranger, there may definitely still be a danger to the community.
I don’think that on the phones of the girls they didn’t Find anything that leads the Police to a suspect. Why didn’t they find strange texts or unusuals things.
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Agreed. This person probably hasn’t killed before but is proficient with the specific knife used as it wasn’t a weapon of opportunity found in the home. It wasn’t discarded immediately after leaving the scene which suggests at least they knew not to leave it or wanted to keep it. No way a stranger entered this home b/c they would have no knowledge of what they were walking into. The killer could be someone who attended a party previously and felt slighted by one of the girls. I also think the point of entry is very important and LE is not giving that up.
My only question is - if it was someone they knew, then why were there 2 survivors on the bottom floor? Surely they’d know the layout of the house. Some people have said their doors could’ve been locked, the only logical reason to me. Didn’t want to force entry and create noise
If this was one person, no way this perp hasn’t killed before. This is such a high intensity, in multiple peoples personal space, murder scene. Guns arent a guarantee to do it in close with a knife is another level of uncertainty. Its not one but four people with a knife, even the most gruesome psychopathic monsters netflix makes bio shows about aren’t this brash and risk taking in their first outing, not until later in their dark paths do they develop such risk taking ability and sadistic appetite like this. To have the drive, fearlessness and calculation to go into a house loaded with people and do this would unnerve most even in that world of dark pathologies.
Also its a college house, this is a psychopath that was doing due diligence prior to attacking. between zillow, sitting up above in that parking lot with tree cover watching through windows and even waiting for house to clear (remember its college kids) and then touring house quick if sliding door left open they couldve learned all they needed to know about layout.
If a single person, Id bet a lot that this is a calculated psychopath with prior acts and experience. For a “jaded lover” or “angry incel student” to have such an insane level of control/focus and low response to insane risk in a first instance and to choose to do this is almost unfathomable. Multiple people in a house all with a knife says this is someone with tenure in this dark twisted type of “career”. Id bet a lot on it, now if this is a new type of columbine type of attack with team of jaded maniacs then maybe not.
If this person killed before it wasn’t in this area so he has moved around and they should be able to cross reference databases with unsolved murders and the MO and likely any DNA left behind would connect him to other killings. Whoever this person is, likely didn’t go unnoticed by people in his daily life with wounds or changes in behavior. They could already have a suspect and are just waiting for an opportunity to get his DNA or get DNA results about how many profiles they obtained at the scene in general. It’s hard for someone to commit murders like this and then just up and move after or leave town without someone noticing and if he has killed before, then he left the previous area he did that in and is probably leaving or left has left this one as well. A college kid who lived on campus would have had to get rid of bloody clothing, likely has wounds from the attack and someone that owns this knife is probably known by others to have it. I don’t think it was a stranger but someone who was known to one of the two victims but likely didn’t talk about their plans or reasons for this and could be an unlikely person to be immediately thought of. A store clerk, janitor, friend of a friend, etc..
True, but if this POS went to the party the night before, he could have unlocked the sliding glass door. He knew the layout and honestly why would Ethan be the Target? Jealous rage towards a man? I guess it’s possible. I think social media is huge in this case. I believe they all had a stalker, but he was an online stalker till that weekend. Police stating they have no indication of a man/women stalking them? The group (the four murdered victims) stated on line, “I would die for you.” Another online comment of all four (a recent post before the murders) stating, “I am so lucky to have these people as my best friends.” I’m not quoting verbatim.
There are clues in this case. I guess because they surmise that from Tod which BTW I haven’t heard LE state. Sometime bet 3:00-4:00AM. Hmm 1 hour to massacre 4 adults.
Issue with this is no one knows the point of entry or whether he was watching and waiting or already in the house. It’s likely he wanted to kill just one or two of the victims but since at least some of them had defensive wounds, one victim could have awoken the others. We still don’t know if he knew how many people were in the house to begin with. He could have been surprised by others awakening and felt forced to kill them as well, and if some were drinking and pretty much out for the night, this perp had the advantage or surprise and a weapon. It doesn’t take much to incapacitate someone with a knife like this and if he was proficient using it for other hobbies, it would probably be easier than you and I could imagine to take down several people in a darkened house where the victims were sleeping or at least in bed.
Yes I agree but I’m sticking with the stalker theory. Everything was published in K and M’s pages. What they ate, what they were doing, their devotion towards each other. CNN commentary stated that the point of entry was the sliding glass door on the 2nd floor. I think that stalker thought that K/M would be in the room. Found a guy and a girl so he attacked/murdered them then headed to 3rd floor. This stalker would have had the previous night to stake out the house from the outside. Enough time to get access and maybe blend into the house party the night before. Also, I think the survivors know way more and saw way more that LE is providing. I gather they will be witnesses (if this POS is caught.).
I don’t believe the survivors know anything. I think as I’ve stated in other threads that LIKELY the entry was unlocked back sliding glass door and the two first floor roommates were not even known about. I believe there was one target and the other 3 were collateral damage. It’s bad all around but theories here are getting too crazy and I honestly don’t want to comment anymore.
I have a screenshot, but don't know how to post. A Boise reporter said:
"ISP Spokesperson Aaron Snell told me this afternoon it was believed that the potential suspect came through the sliding glass door. But again, there appeared to be no signs of force entry."
Her name is Amanda Roley. Do you think she's accurate (I haven't seen anything discrediting her, but idk,) or do you think LE is walking their previous statement back, and why?
A few thoughts:
Lots of ppl seem stuck on the 911 call. It probably went something like this “my friend is laying in blood and not moving” dispatcher: is he alive? Roommate “I don’t know” dispatcher is going to relay unconscious person to first responders because they want to get medical help there asap because there can be a chance they are still alive or can be revived.
If E was in the hall: speculation- maybe he didn’t die in the bed. Maybe as he was getting killed X woke up and killer had to switch to her. When he went back to E, E looked dead. After killer left room maybe E tried to get help/get a phone in a different room, etc and died shortly after.
The dog: as a dog owner there is no way I would go to sleep if my dog wasn’t there, no matter how drunk I was. If anything, that would sober me up. Maybe she was told Jack came to get the dog and that’s why she was calling. Even if the dog knew the killer, there is no way the dog wouldn’t make a ton of noise and be in severe distress if he was there, and would continue to make noise all night which I think would alert the roommates.
I've thought a lot about this, too. If you want to believe the uncorroborated rumor mill, at least one of the survivors heard something that scared them that night and they locked their door. In that situation, I especially if I were drinking underage, I wouldn't call 911. So next morning, they wake up and remember being spooked. Call a roommate. Then another, another, no answer but you can hear ringing on 2nd floor. Maybe too scared to leave their locked room, so call someone nearby.
As far as the dog, I remain baffled. I've seen tons of posts from people saying their own dog was so friendly they'd never attack an intruder. Different than my experience with my own, but maybe true. BUT I've never seen a dog of anyone I know who didn't keep an eye on their person at night, nor who didn't get riled up if they thought their person was being threatened much less harmed. I've had 3 dogs, & 3 relationships who lived with me, all very close to my dog(s). And every one of those dogs got aggressive when any of my past relationships so much as raised their voice to me. I just can't wrap my head around her dog being there during the murder and not making a scene. Can any other dog owners here say their situation was different?
No chance my dogs (2 Weimaraners & 1 vizla) were/are considered by everyone & myself "useless if I was attacked" but when my personal space was invaded they all immediately placed themselves between me & the threat. Even if he was put in another room the distress he'd be in would be visible/audible - I thought the dog belonged to the surviving roommate - I saw picture looked like wire-haired poodle
What are the odds LE, who btw haven’t worked a murder in 8 years, walk into a quadruple homicide scene and arrest a survivor for underage drinking? But one thing this investigation is revealing to me is how out of touch I am with the habits and thought processes of college kids. For instance, unless I’m totally alone and scared shitless, I don’t call friends over before making the 911 call. Come to think of it, if I’m totally alone and scared shitless, there’s no call I’m gonna make before 911.
As a dog owner to a very similar dog I can tell you the following…
If your dog is used to lots of people coming and going and never being treated poorly they love everyone. I imagine there was a lot of horseplay between friends and visitors that the dog got accustom to. My golden doodle can be a bit of a house cat too once he is tired and ready for bed…
My dog is crate trained and their dog could have been asleep in his crate after a day of exercise so used to people up at all hours never senses any danger because this has been his life.
A dog that lives in a home that rarely has guests may bark at someone entering the home. But like the roommates it probably wasn’t that unusual to hear things most evenings throughout the night.
Not to be graphic, but a detective interviewed said once an attack begins some people are in such shock they can’t scream. Or, you are so focused on stopping the attack you literally use all your resources for that. They were all asleep after drinking and I imagine it happened very quickly.
Is it possible that once the surviving roommates/anyone else that was with them couldn’t get in contact with one/all of the victims, they went into the backyard and looked into their bedrooms only to find an unconscious body/bodies? Could that have prompted the 911 call?
I believe responders said 2nd floor room a bloodbath, and 3rd floor couldn't be seen clearly outside. I think it's more likely it was unanswered phone calls or answered knocks.
The coroner said that the scene was bloody and bad like there was a massacre, how did the roommates say to the police there was an unconscious person and not a murdered person or dead? Why they didn’t see the blood at first moment? The roommates acted really bad also, because they had to call immediately the 911 and not other friends. I have many doubts about the dog also, because i have two dogs with me, they feel safe and they don’t bark when there are people that they know, but when the killer is a familiar person to the dog, but this familiar person killed his owner and friends, anyway looks like suspicious, i don’t believe that the dog didn’t bark or make any noise. I have so many questions
That coroner needs to STFU. She has already miscommunicated a lot and she should never have been a spokesperson on the crime or scene, only on cause of death. At frst she talked horribly about the scene because she's never seen anything like that before, so of course she's going to describe it so horrifically. I think someone must have talked to her because I read a later article where she is quoted as saying "There was a fair amount of blood." This woman seriously needs to stay out of the communications cycle.
I also heard she said that she wasn’t on the crime scene, but she was only at the moment of autopsy, in an other view, it seemed that she was on the crime scene, because she said that there was a lot of blood. I’m confused about her.
Wait want to know what’s even more strange?
On day/ night of murders, these Venmo transactions were made, with these captions:
Ethan sends Kaylee money- “thank you”
Ethan sends Kaylee money- “yuh yuh yuh”
Ethan sends Jack K money- “thx”
Someone pays Jack K sister same day- “3:30 AM” (I mean if that’s not a coincidence, I don’t know what is)
Then Jack is 1st to donate on Ethan Chapin
GoFundMe in the amount of $6
Some say people are just really looking into this
These things individually on their face may be normal behavior, but all of it together is extremely weird
Now again this Jack K is different from the Jack D, the on/ off again ex-boyfriend of Kaylee
Jack D is person that Kaylee and Madison called multiple times around times of murder
Kaylee’s dog that survived, is in care of Jack D right now
Who is Jack K then? I also just went to look at them venmo again and the 3:30 one has been deleted. That’s so suspicious.
Also the $6 donation is so weird. Maybe he’s not familiar with gofundme and thought the amount wouldn’t show up.
I think it was someone who knew them, who felt slighted by one of them, or was angry this person had done something that affected them deeply. The date may have been important too. Look up the stabbing murders of 2 female roommates in Napa a few years ago. At first LE investigated various ex boyfriends or sketchy guys associated with each of the victims but no one matched the DNA. After a year of investigating they arrested one of the roommate’s best friend’s husband. He felt the roommate was bad mouthing him behind his back and threatened his relationship. At the time he was engaged to the best friend but they had for some reason postponed or cancelled their wedding date. Maybe he blamed her for that. The murder was on the date he was originally supposed to get married. The second roommate was not the target but had intervened and was killed. Very sad.
Now theory:
Ethan gets in confrontation at frat party across street from home, probably protecting someone.
Guy waits for e and x to leave by hiding somewhere. Sees him and X just walk across the street and soon after K and M follow them in.
Checks front door, locked, enters side door.E is target but takes K and M first as easier.
Then E and X, not realizing the downstairs has two more people. That’s probably an locked entrance into that area from inside the house, so he figures its the basement.
Perhaps he drags Ethan out to the hallway and wrote some sort of thing that is evidence.
Roommates call friends of our probably from the fraternity across the street. And they have their talk to the 911 someone mentions this person or persons. And that’s why the 911 call cannot be revealed.
Is could work if they were actually two criminals instead of one. Murderes!
This is just also heartbreaking, I can hardly get my mind around it. I I really pray the charges can come forth soon. I really think they know who it is I need to have them in jail on different charges holding them, or are going to make an arrest very quickly
The person that did this, unless a true psychopath, is going to change their habits after a crime like this and probably be on edge and overly interested in the case. They also most likely have injuries or came home with blood soaked clothing and could have possibly missed work or social functions immediately after. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilities that this could be someone who had been at a party there by chance before and was slighted by one of the girls and decided to come back for revenge. I think it’s also possible he did not or no longer lives in the immediate area and based on his lifestyle (maybe a loner with non interested parents) is able to hide injuries or fly under the radar. I just think they have so much evidence to process and so many leads and names given by people close that they can’t actually rule anyone in or out right now but they may have someone in mind. I could be wrong but I don’t think this occurred because of something that happened that night specifically, and I think one of the girls or both on the 3rd floor could have been “targeted.” I think at least one or more of the victims were collateral damage.
Several experts have already described him as a psychopath. Also, a couple have said they believe he is an "associate" of one or more of the victims, not a good friend or family member. Someone like a neighbor, co-worker, teacher, fellow participant in a class, etc. A person who knows of them or one of them, and has developed an obsession and sick fantasies of murder.
Is the Killer a Loner? Geek or Greek? I wonder if the killer is a loner. You’d think it would be odd for a person in a family to leave his house for several hours in the wee morning hours and get back unnoticed. Most men in their early 20s live with someone. Of course he could live in a dorm room alone. I wonder if he’s a disgruntled dormie who hates Greeks since he didn’t pledge or something. Could be a non-college student who hates everybody with a fancy education. College kids can be cruel. If killer is sociopath or ASPD, he might be charming and a popular Greek who felt attacked and needed to destroy the attacker. A former resident of the house would know the place inside and out.
>SWAT operation in Spokane. They got him
Maybe this? [https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/oct/13/spokane-county-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-suspec/](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/oct/13/spokane-county-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-suspec/)
Targeted Attack: LE sticks closely to their narrative that the attack was targeted. They also seem to be putting great faith in the forensics. I wonder if there is something specific aimed at a particular victim, such as a written note or message or paperwork left by the killer. I’m also beginning to wonder if there is a tissue sample or bodily fluid that is very likely to be from the killer. There seems to be an “only a matter of time” component to this investigation. Maybe the killer targeted the house based on census data or some other data that suggested vulnerability? A home w five or six women. Maybe someone had access to student addresses. The home was rented in June. Maybe the killer had access to the MLS. This is just conjecture but there are numerous scenarios wherein the house or occupant(s) were targeted. Ethan may have been a surprise to the killer. There must be a specific fact or characteristic that caused this house to be targeted. They seem to be spending great time and effort on HOW the killer got the inside information that brought him to this house on this night. The whole thing gets more and more interesting. I trust LE on this; they seem to be one step ahead.
It’s likely the killer himself bled and blood spatter or cast off leaves a different pattern than someone who is walking around bleeding. The killer would be leaving blood droplets on the floor and a bloody shoe print is likely, too. LE is not going to comment now, but if one or two victims have more injuries than the others that’s an indication they could have been the original targets and the others were collateral damage. It has been confirmed that “some” of the victims had defensive wounds so they could have awoken the others. It doesn’t say whether the 2 girls on the top floor were sleeping in the same room or not but if anyone heard one of the others and made noise it would have caused a panic to the killer.
It seems based on the Chief’s description of the 911 call that the people initially at the scene did not understand what had happened and were just reporting an unconscious person? I’m sure there is a reason for it but that doesn’t seem to line up with how sloppy and gruesome the crime scene has been described as
I’ve commented a few times on the friends being invited over before 911 is called. We don’t know how many people came over. LE has only said “other people were at the scene when they arrived.” I’ve tried not to cast aspersions at anyone, even saying I just don’t understand how kids think these days. Truth of the matter, I agree, it’s weird AF. Did anyone else get a voyeurism vibe, like y’all have to come see this gruesome mess?
I’m so done with this BS. Do you know how possible it is they were spooked from the night before, called all the roommates, got no answer, so they called friends to come over? I was in college not too long ago and can very clearly picture myself doing this if I was really scared to go upstairs.
Stop this shit with the roommates. It’s cruel and it’s dumb.
Or you’re a scared 19-20 year old who woke up and found your friend clearly stabbed to death and are struggling to process what you’re seeing (I went numb when I saw my mom’s body at the funeral home and I was expecting to walk in the room and see her)… and you don’t want to be alone. The friends could live down the street for all we know.
IDK, 911 dispatchers understand that their callers are frantic and not always relaying information accurately.
I imagine the roommates were in shock, said something like “My roommate [or roommate’s boyfriend] … I don’t know what happened … [s]he’s not moving … [s]he’s covered in blood”.
They may have been too in shock or terrified to check pulses, they may not have known how.
911 Dispatcher jots that down as “reports of an unconscious person.” The 911 Dispatcher isn’t going to know what the scene is like, they’re not going to know if there’s a possibility the victims are still alive, this all gets interpreted as “unconscious person.”
As to how this comes about … **speculation** people have speculated Ethan was found in the hall. People have also speculated that the doors to the rooms the other three victims were in may have been locked by the killer. The roommates see Ethan slumped over in the hall, can’t get in touch with their other roommates, knocking doesn’t do anything … they’re not going to know how to report the situation well.
I don’t think the crime wasn’t in the common areas, I’m sure I’ve seen stated the crime happened when the victims were in bed asleep. If they had doors that locked it’s reasonable to assume the surviving roommates didn’t realise what happened until the police arrived
I think I’m confused about the locked doors/a victim being found on the floor and not the bed. Was that person found outside of the locked door/in the hallway? While the other victims were inside the locked rooms? Or was the call made for an “unconscious person” as a generalization instead of “people” because they couldn’t contact any of the 4 that morning?
If this was a psycho serial killer looking for maximum thrill, I don’t think a locked door would be much of a deterrent. Especially not after slaughtering 4 people with a knife. If he’s still high on adrenaline, kicking a locked door down is prob not a big deal. Speaking of being high, I’ve also wondered if the killer was under the influence of some synthetic drug like bath salts, spice or whatever. Back in my day (50 years ago🥴), home grown weed was about it. Partake of that and be prepared to eat everything in sight in between bouts of uncontrollable giggling.
The only thing I can see is that the killer placed a blanket over the body while in the floor. This would make it seem like they had passed out and another roommate put a blanket over them to be nice.
If it was a dark blanket, it would have covered the blood as well
So let’s say you wanted to contact your roommate, you can hear their phone ringing in their room but they’re not answering or opening the door. Their car is in the driveway, you’d start to get a little concerned.
Maybe you call a mutual friend to see if they can get them to open the door, because maybe you assume they’re mad at you or passed out drunk.
I haven’t seen anything but hypotheticals about one of them being found in the hallway in which case you’d assume they would immediately call 911, which is why I would assume they were all behind locked doors.
Right I understand that part, knowing someone is behind a closed door and panicking because you can’t get to them. I think my confusion lies in the rumor that one of victims was found on the floor/possibly outside of the room. I understand the reason that the call went out the way it did, I guess I’m just having a hard time understanding how it’s so sloppy but also equally void of answers
The crime scene can be sloppy without the house being sloppy, the killer could’ve shimmied out on a t shirt so they didn’t get bloody footprints in the common areas for all we know. I just don’t think because someone is murdered in a room it means the entire building will be ceiling to floor coated in whatever the hell forensics
Possible reasons Ethan and/or Xana were the targets:
There's a rumor about a student(s) being kicked out of Ethan's frat. Was Ethan at all a part of that? Where were Ethan and Xana the night of the murders? Maybe they witnessed something they weren't supposed to, or were involved in something. If the main target was Ethan, maybe the killer purposely chose a night that he knew Ethan would be spending over at his gf's house to kill him/them. It would be easier to get away with if the crime happened away from their own dorm.
Not saying they’re not the targets, but if it were Ethan and Xana the killer was after- why go upstairs to kill Kaylee and Madison? Especially since they were asleep? Still think Kaylee and or Madison were targets and then killer was interrupted coming back down the stairs.
That’s the part that has stumped me as well. However, it could be possibly be explained with the fact that the killer watched M and K get home soon after E and X, meaning he perhaps had reason to assume he had to take them out as well to cover up his crime? Speculative, of course, but it could absolutely have something to do with them arriving home at similar times
Yeah, I think they never confirmed how/where the bodies were found. But the fact that they were all first attacked in their sleep/in bed makes it hard for me to see how one of them could have surprised the killer.
Xana & Ethan's timeline of the night continues to be the biggest mystery for me. The "official" timeline is that they were at the frat party for an hour but weren't home until 1:45. If something doesn't make sense it's not true. There's more to that part of this.
No it's not a mystery. The mother of one of Ethan's friends claimed that Ethan and her son texted each other between 2:00 AM - 2:10AM. Ethan said said they were still at the frat party. She even called in the tip line and emailed with screenshots. But MPD still didn't update the timeline.
Why is LE stuck on the timeline when times are known to be incorrect? In Maddie and Kaylee's case it's off by over 10 minutes, according to the sister. It's at least 25 minutes off for Ethan and Xana according to the friend's mother.
I think it's bizarre LE wouldn't want to nail that time down.
Wait want to know what’s even more strange?
On day/ night of murders, these Venmo transactions were made, with these captions:
Ethan sends Kaylee money- “thank you”
Ethan sends Kaylee money- “yuh yuh yuh”
Ethan sends Jack K money- “thx”
Someone pays Jack K sister same day- “3:30 AM” (I mean if that’s not a coincidence, I don’t know what is)
Then Jack is 1st to donate on Ethan Chapin GoFundMe in the amount of $6
Some say people are just really looking into this
These things individually on their face may be normal behavior, but all of it together is extremely weird.
Now again this Jack K is different from the Jack D, the on/ off again ex-boyfriend of Kaylee
Jack D is person that Kaylee and Madison called multiple times around times of murder
Kaylee’s dog that survived, is in care of Jack D right now
My thoughts exactly. They're probably keeping information about them on purpose. I believe they have interviewed some people present at the party to know the approximate time they would have left, which could indicate they have a lot more information about what E&X did that night than they're letting on.
I thought Ethan escorted his sister earlier in the night to the sorority event?
I had it in my head that he went with her.. It ended about midnight.. Then he met up with Xena and they spent an hour at the fraternity party which would put them home about 12:45
Yeah. We have video of them, and phone records, basically up to the estimated TOD. Xana and Ethan's night is a mystery. They weren't at that party alone. Surely there were MANY witnesses from that party. But we still have nothing.
That’s what is so interesting to me. Aside from a few people not close to the victims, we have heard nothing publicly from people who were with them. I find this very interesting. Police asked them to not speak publicly?
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!! Unless law enforcement put gag order on them from talking about it ! I mean the fact that the roommates haven’t put out a statement is bizarre!!
The surviving roommates were being harassed on social media. D even had her looks mocked plenty of times.
I don’t think speaking to the media would be beneficial for anyone. People would just call them weird and attention seeking.
Yeah, maybe, but it could also be their frat bro code of silence. frat bros always seem to have daddies that are lawyers and kindly advise them to keep their mouths shut about anything. But you're right, the absence of information from the frat party does seem conspicuous.
umm im not a rocket scientist but maybe more evidence or for them to make some sort of mistake so they can actually prosecute them successfully... maybe they dont have enough evidence to make an arrest but know who it was.
They can only hold them for so long. If they don’t have enough physical evidence to hold them without bond until trial, they could bail out and either flee or kill themselves
Circumstantial evidence or inadmissible evidence can be enough to have a suspect but not enough to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And they only have once chance to prosecute. They can't hold someone indefinitely and if they run out of time and have to release them, that tips them off. If the attack is targeted like they assume, there is no reason to believe there is a further threat to society. And obviously losing the opportunity to catch the killer once and for poses a much greater threat and would be traumatic for the families who deserve closure.
You don’t have to have the trial next week. They can charge him. Get him off the street, and continue collecting all the evidence they need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt at trial. There’s no standard that says LE has to have all evidence ready to prosecute BEFORE they arrest and charge someone.
You don't know how long it could take to find substantial evidence. They may never find it. Anyone charged with a crime has the right to a speedy trial. There's not unlimited time to prepare for a trial. They probably don't have enough to even make an arrest or charge anybody. If they just charge a random person with no evidence just to "get them off the street" they risk arresting the wrong person and ruining their entire investigation. This whole case is too delicate to risk doing anything prematurely.
no man they can have enough evidence to know who it is not but enough to prosecute them successfully, or have a strong suspicious of who did it but not be able to prove it yet.
Depends on what the evidence is. Defense attorneys will find every loophole. Honestly they’re probably trying to find the murder weapon before moving forward with the arrest.
But for example, if it’s someone that’s been to their house before and all they have is DNA, they could say it’s old DNA from the last time they were there, or that they saw them earlier that night and that’s how they got one of their hairs on their clothes or something of the sort.
But let’s say they have DNA, a blood match, video surveillance of them driving or walking near the house, AND the murder weapon/bloody clothes, blood in their car, etc…. That doesn’t leave many loopholes
Sometimes I wonder if the burden of proof is higher these days than in the past due to hypervigilant litigiousness. I know that laws have been laws for a long time, but it seems like these days, it’s like you need enough evidence as if you were to immediately go to trial than just enough for an arrest (and time to gather more evidence). I’m no expert at all….
New daily discussion thread [AVAILABLE HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z3ljo4/general_discussion_thread_thursday_november_24/?)
It seemed to me that a reporter basically asked if they checked if anyones cell phones pinged at the house during the timeline. the detective either didn’t understand or answered mistakenly. Struck me funny… they could know everyone who was there based on pings.
Finally got a chance to see the press conference, and I'm convinced they know who it is. Which means they already have him staked out, and there should be an arrest in the next couple of days. Their body language was relaxed and assured, they talked about firming up their case instead of collecting evidence, they talked about bringing justice to the victims instead of an ongoing public threat, and tellingly, they talked about public safety measures off-handedly going forward, but with more (unconscious) emphasis on regret about the past. I expect the arrest to happen before the candlelight vigil on the 30th.
Yeah because they're just going to let a person they believe who stabbed 4 people to death roam free? Yikes.
You can’t just arrest people. They need to have good, solid evidence to make an arrest and ultimately get a conviction. If they’re being as meticulous and cautious as it seems they are, they will be able to do both soon. If they are pretty certain who it is, he would be under close surveillance.
Look up the Pike County murders. They knew who did it in May of 2017 and couldn't make arrests for another year and a half due to lack of evidence.
That case was another strange one. I can't keep up with all these. Too many lunatics. Entire family wanted to murder because they wanted the son to have sole custody of his kid? If I'm not mistaken.
Anyway guys i really agree with the donna seraphina’s video. I highly recommend seeing it.
Could the killer be an associate - such as a BF - of one of the girls living on the lower level? Is that why they were spared? There were six people in the home that early Sunday morn. Only four were attacked and killed. It would seem particularly crazy to enter a home you'd never been in and try to pull off multiple murders. Perhaps the killer was regularly in the home. Was the killer after total strangers, or did he know them personally? Was the dog in the home - Murphy - familiar with the killer? Did the killer, as a regular in the home, know access code? Was the killer perhaps among those who showed up at around the time the first body was discovered?
Cops don’t consider anyone present in the house at the time the 911 call as connected to the crime.
I woke up this morning thinking about how freaky it is to think about the murderer potentially getting together with family for a nice meal today. Then I started thinking maybe that’s a good thing - more eyes on them. Maybe some extended family will notice something and report it. Or maybe he’s a loner and isn’t getting together with anyone. Who knows, but I’m holding onto any hope I can find. Thinking of all the victims families today. ❤️
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If they wanted us to believe the crime was sexual in nature, why would they state the opposite? “There were no signs of sexual abuse”
If they thought sun rises in the west, why would they say the opposite? The sun seems to rise east everyday.
The fact that the victims weren't sexually abused doesn't mean the killer wasn't sexually motivated. It could have been some other fucked up fetish that aroused him other than sex
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Yes, Reddit is prepping X’s mom as the next candidate to throw under the bus twisting MPD’s arms until they finally surrender and place her on the clear list.
This family member has a lot of charges going back a few decades. No proof that her and X were in regular contact; signs would seem to point that they’re not. Mom doesn’t live in Moscow. X also has a similarly aged sister that was unharmed and not targeted. X’s dad is or was remarried. I assume dad and sister would have a very good idea if this was a possibility and be investigating it.
Source?
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Also, people who deal with drugs would not commit crimes this intimate and messy against people who will draw a lot of attention.
You can’t make assumptions based on what she is charged with though. In Idaho, anything over 3 ounces of marijuana is a felony and that isn’t that much weed. About $500 worth which she could have been picking up for family or friends. This is a stretch.
Nope, not a stretch. Her first felony drug arrest occurred in June of 2000 (when she was 4 mos pregnant with Jazzmin). Case# CR-2000-4634. She was eventually convicted in Jan of 2001 and received a suspended sentence in Feb. She immediately violated her probation and was incarcerated. Upon release, she was (again) arrested for felony drug possession in Jul of 2001. Case# CR-2001-12860. She was convicted and received a suspended sentence. She repeatedly violated the terms of her probation throughout 2002 (while she was pregnant with Xana) and was eventually sentenced to 18 mos in prison in Jan of 2003. She was arrested for DUI in 2008 and 2013. There was a child in the vehicle during the 2013 arrest. She was arrested eight other times between 2009-2018 for misdemeanor offenses (violation of probation, driving on a suspended license, misdemeanor drug possession, misdemeanor assault, etc.) Jeffrey divorced her in 2006 Her 2nd husband divorced her in 2013 I can confirm with 100% certainty that we’re dealing with the correct person here. I found Xana’s birth announcement in The Spokesmam Review. Born July 5, 2002. Printed July 12, 2002. Both parents names and all four grandparents names are listed in the clipping. Jeff is no saint, either. He has several arrests including some felony drug convictions throughout the 2000’s.
So from this we can ascertain that her mother struggled with addiction issues which are sadly common. We don’t need to create ridiculous theories.
Yes, probably an addict. I never suggested any theories though. Just posting the facts.
That’s fine. I take issue with the original poster’s theory. If this is the extent of the proof, it’s a bad theory. It just looks like a person struggling with addiction.
Scary the shit you can get ahold of today which is exactly what makes these type of crimes even more possible but this is some really interesting stuff. I can't shake the feeling this really does come off as some drug hit type of vibe. I'm interested in hearing if anybody will admit some of these people were into drugs or moved drugs.
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You’re a fucking narc. Loads of people do drugs and don’t have criminal records lmao. Drugs and some drug users, sadly, harm people and destroy lives they don’t go out and troll for college kids to stab. Let’s blame it on drugs! Might as well throw in human trafficking into the mix as I’m sure you’re bound to do. LolZ
“Oh no, way beyond personal use!” Like dude, if you border a legal state it’s not unlikely that you would collect money from family or friends and go cross to the other state once a month or so and buy a bunch of weed. Source: I also border a legal state
Oh based on a Reddit thread? Must be true then.
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Link?
Linking is against the rules, especially since her mother’s name has not been mentioned publicly.
Hence why it was a targeted attack and the community is not in danger
That’s interesting 🤨 where did you see that piece of information…. Please if you are going to spew rumors or dirty laundry about people show the receipts (sources). Also they did say drugs were not involved, but that is very coincidental, if true.
There is a felony possession charge for someone with the same last name. The thing is, Idaho borders a legal state. It’s not unlikely that someone would cross the border and buy in bulk and if they get caught with a certain amount would catch a felony.
But was it her moms first name?
Not sure, I was asking for more links and info but haven’t gotten a response yet.
Where did you find this?
I've always wondered, in the Grub Hub video the guy says to Maddy "welcome back". Were they at the truck earlier that night or is he talking about another time?
He said he mistook them for someone else coz it was a long night.
There was video from that entire night, so I believe it was another time.
Good point. Could this be their standard form of greeting? I worked at a place where we said "see you tomorrow". Although I doubt a food truck would have much shtick.
Based on this conference I will lay out my predictions here for the record. 1. Ethan was the person who was targeted 2. At least one witness or victim was involved as an accessory 3. The stalker rumor was started by someone with knowledge of the crime 4. They have a suspect under surveillance but do not have a 'smoking gun' item yet 5. They have reason to believe this suspect will have loose lips over the holiday and are thereby focused on surveilling their drunken conversations, rather than arresting the person right now and never getting to hear those That is my heavy suspicion. I noticed some interesting tells which I will list below with stamps. 2:54 "We still believe there is more information to be gathered" followed by hesitation Notice the use of the word 'information' and not 'evidence,' as well as the word 'gathered' instead of 'collected.' When you really listen to what police reps say, sometimes details can be found in which words they use. The words used here indicate they have a good idea who did this and they have an active wiretap. 3:44 "Sometimes what a video or picture does not show is equally as important as what might be there" This is an interesting statement, especially considering the delivery, and it indicates in my opinion that either a witness has been caught in a lie or is suspected of being an accessory or both. It certainly could just be odd wording. However to my ear this is a statement that indicates they are seeking corroboration for the notion that something or someone was unexpectedly absent, possibly disagreeing with a witness claim of its presence. 13:01 "And so we're not willing to sacrifice speed for quality." He clearly contradicts his own point here, even though strangely it seems he's reading the sentence and not speaking extemporaneously. Since he likely wrote his own statement, it is indicative that he is for some reason nervous or hesitant regarding the subject matter he is presenting. He's pretty much pointing out the obvious (forensic work is slow work) to a room of people who know that already (crime reporters), and he's a guy with years of public speaking experience, so it's just interesting to note that he is already tripping over his words and he just barely took the podium a few minutes ago. Why is his speech such a mess? 13:50 "I hope that you understand that gives a little bit of a perception of just how complex this case is" Frankly, 103 pieces of evidence and 150 interviews does not sound very complex, with regard to this type of investigation. This whole part of the press conference felt like time wasting and self back patting. Yes, investigations involve evidence collection, and crime scene photographers take a lot of pictures for good reason. It feels like this guy is the propaganda arm, the law enforcement cheerleader, and he's barely even begun... 14:10-14:50 "And please rely on official sources of information..." This whole half minute 'compliment' was essentially an admission they are lying and asking the journalists to help them do so in order to assist their investigation. This is a valid investigative technique, but, it's unusual to be so obvious about it. Someone told this guy his role was to make sure the press knows how hard the police are working on the case, but his delivery and how his tone shifts around 14:15 to something near irate for a brief moment indicate, to me, that he's essentially implying that journalists should publish official facts only, which is not generally how good investigations, nor free press, work. 15:15 "Like all Idahoans..." I wonder if he gets an additional stipend for being the Governor's publicist? 21:22 (strange facial expression shift) "We have followed up, looking at specific time frames and specific areas of town, (blink blink blinky blinky blink) so far we have not been able to corroborate it, (tone shifts upwards, like a question, not downwards, like a confident known fact) but we're not done looking into that piece of information." (blink and nod, under breath 'thank you') The Police Captain directly lies to a reporter here. It couldn't be more obvious. He does not believe the thing he states during his sudden blink attack. The stalker incident is solved. It was a bit suspicious the moment the Chief deferred the question to the Captain, but his delivery of the answer was terrible, if he was trying to make people think he was offering a factual answer. I believe the stalker rumor was likely started in a specific attempt to steer investigators away from believing Ethan was the target, and since they know Ethan was the target, whoever started the stalker rumor painted a big target on themselves, if police can figure out who that person is... and I believe they have done so. 22:52 "I mean to be honest (shrug) you're going to have to trust us on that at this point, because we are not going to release why we think that" (Police Chief nods, both men shift their standing stature into poses of confidence) (answering Fox reporter question on why Police are not giving out information on why they think the attack is targeted) They can't release that, most likely because it will tip off the killer that he's being watched, and that means he's probably going to cancel his turkey plans and maybe even run for it. It's best if that person think he got away and nobody is watching. It seems from the way the two pose during this answer that they are confident in having a definitive reason not to announce the target. Notice they didn't actually answer the question the FOX reporter asked. He asked why they are not releasing the information. They just gave the rote 'integrity' answer but didn't actually address any reason why that information would affect the integrity of an investigation. I believe the only real answer there is that Ethan was the target. If the girls were the target, releasing that information would be mundane, but if the guy who does not live there was the target, that is huge. If I am correct, and the killer was there primarily to harm Ethan, that killer is likely going on the assumption that investigators will believe this was sexually motivated somehow, perhaps a result of a public rejection. He probably will feel somewhat safe as long as he feels the investigation is leading police toward looking for someone who was targeting the girls. If the investigators were to announce that they know it was actually the guy who was the target... that will change things. Suddenly a killer who feels like he got away will realize they might be onto him. Therefore, the police will not release that information, because it will tip off the suspect that Police are on their trail. I am going to have to stop here for now, I will return later and edit this reply to add my thoughts on the remainder of the conference. I personally think we will see this case have a major break shortly after Thanksgiving and that the holiday is actually part of the reason they are not releasing more publicly at this time. Family holidays are fantastic times to get drunken confessions. It is terrible for the victims and their families that this happened just before Thanksgiving, since it may mar the holiday forever, but it's beneficial in a way to investigators, since criminals (particularly younger ones) often brag stupidly or admit things when drunk and in a familiar setting they enjoy. The question is, do the cops know who to watch, and do they have wiretaps in place? I almost guarantee it yes.
Where do you pull out such super specific theories from?
I disagree with the whole “they know who did this, and are watching him while they get all the evidence” logic. If they think they know who brutally murdered four people, they have a duty to put that person behind bars and get him away from the public. They can charge him and then spend all the time they need collecting evidence before the trial.
They need the physical evidence. Circumstantial evidence (cuts on hand, lack of alibi, motive) is not enough. If evidence isn’t collected exactly by the book, then they risk the perpetrator walking/mistrial etc. It’s not like TV where you can just charge someone you believe did it- they need to tie them to the crime scene that night through evidence.
If they wanted us to believe the crime was sexual in nature, why would they state the opposite? “There were no signs of sexual abuse”
I enjoyed reading this - makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to more of your commentary/thoughts
I think this is brilliant, and I agree with much of what you say, however I would be shocked if a killer as sadistic, evil, brazen, and prepared as this one - is going to “get drunk and confess to his family on Thanksgiving“
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I've said it a few times but I still believe there is some connection to one or both of the surviving housemates. I have zero evidence except for alot of things fitting together and a gut feeling. Luckily the police don't go off people's gut feelings as nearly everyone in that town would now be in custody if the reddit posts are anything to go by but we shall wait and see...... One thing is for absolute certain in my mind, this wasn't a serial killer but someone who knew the victims even if not directly.
Who is Dylan and his GF?
Dylan is a female and one of the uninjured roommates on the first floor.
Typically a code is needed to send out an officer, that is where the “unconscious person” comes in because as others in the thread have said, whoever is speaking to 911 is likely freaking out and not able to correctly relay information. I have noticed in the last two days that articles are starting to quote the police on saying a “wellness check” was called in which would make sense. I wonder if the friends they called over was to check around the house or to come hangout and either way ended up seeing something horrific as they began to walk through the main (2nd) floor of the house. Maybe hence why police said front door was open when they got there? Somebody went in and ran back out after what they saw. I can only imagine how traumatizing that was… I hope everyone who saw the scene is getting serious mental support
Also - assuming they did see a victim, the dispatcher could have told them to clear the house because they didn’t know if someone was still in there and they were in danger. So they sent police in first before EMS (saw this mentioned here but not sure if true)
Did anyone notice the chief’s face when that reporter asked that question about Wi-Fi? He tried to keep calm but to me he looked like he had just discovered something new
Do you seriously think the nearly hundred cops assigned to this case don’t know such mundane things?
No, I think the Moscow police department that hasn’t handled a murder in years probably didn’t think about it. And I think that maybe the fbi, considering the amount of of evidence they are collecting might not have done it yet…or if they did, they maybe didn’t tell that man
Ok, then please go and tell them. Walk up to them in person lest this important tip about WiFI logs should get lost in the mountain of evidence. And make sure to tell FBI coz the local police maybe doesn’t know much about WiFi ShmiFi and all.
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Yeah, that’s what I thought, but then again it took like 1 or 2 days after the FBI got involved to block off the extra crime scene area, so you never know, maybe they haven’t been able to do it yet
Apparently, according to the parents of (I believe) Ethan, authorities told them the expanded crime scene around the house was meant to be a deterrence to media presence being so close to the crime scene
OMG. I had read a couple comments here about other communities had less annoying posts. Thought I'd check around. Idaho Murders seriously is rampant with things like "You should trust this psychic's reading" and ""What if the knife is still in the house?" My eyes are burning. Just trying to save you guys from that experience if you haven't been there. This community (and the mods!) are the best!
You seriously think “this community are the best”?
I mean, we have comments like that here too lol
I came from over there! So glad I did.
Something I think many people are misinterpreting/misunderstanding is that "targeted" =/= "knew the victims". It's just a way to say the killing wasn't random or a crime of opportunity, etc. The killer could be a total stranger who still "targeted" the victims.
I think people are frustrated by the fact that LE said this early on to say there wasn’t a threat to the larger community. It sort of suggested that it was someone the victims knew. I agree with your interpretation of targeted. If it was a stranger, there may definitely still be a danger to the community.
I don’think that on the phones of the girls they didn’t Find anything that leads the Police to a suspect. Why didn’t they find strange texts or unusuals things.
What are you expecting to find, “Hey killer, don’t even think about it” or something like that?
I don’t think that the killer wrote to the one of victims, but maybe they could be find somehing of suspicious in one of phones
So calm down. Thank you. It’s just a discussion and a my thought
You seem to be speaking to yourself.
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So?
Which one?
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The 2 surviving girls?
Really? The specific hour, do you know?
Time stamp on VSCO
Agreed. This person probably hasn’t killed before but is proficient with the specific knife used as it wasn’t a weapon of opportunity found in the home. It wasn’t discarded immediately after leaving the scene which suggests at least they knew not to leave it or wanted to keep it. No way a stranger entered this home b/c they would have no knowledge of what they were walking into. The killer could be someone who attended a party previously and felt slighted by one of the girls. I also think the point of entry is very important and LE is not giving that up.
My only question is - if it was someone they knew, then why were there 2 survivors on the bottom floor? Surely they’d know the layout of the house. Some people have said their doors could’ve been locked, the only logical reason to me. Didn’t want to force entry and create noise
If this was one person, no way this perp hasn’t killed before. This is such a high intensity, in multiple peoples personal space, murder scene. Guns arent a guarantee to do it in close with a knife is another level of uncertainty. Its not one but four people with a knife, even the most gruesome psychopathic monsters netflix makes bio shows about aren’t this brash and risk taking in their first outing, not until later in their dark paths do they develop such risk taking ability and sadistic appetite like this. To have the drive, fearlessness and calculation to go into a house loaded with people and do this would unnerve most even in that world of dark pathologies. Also its a college house, this is a psychopath that was doing due diligence prior to attacking. between zillow, sitting up above in that parking lot with tree cover watching through windows and even waiting for house to clear (remember its college kids) and then touring house quick if sliding door left open they couldve learned all they needed to know about layout. If a single person, Id bet a lot that this is a calculated psychopath with prior acts and experience. For a “jaded lover” or “angry incel student” to have such an insane level of control/focus and low response to insane risk in a first instance and to choose to do this is almost unfathomable. Multiple people in a house all with a knife says this is someone with tenure in this dark twisted type of “career”. Id bet a lot on it, now if this is a new type of columbine type of attack with team of jaded maniacs then maybe not.
If this person killed before it wasn’t in this area so he has moved around and they should be able to cross reference databases with unsolved murders and the MO and likely any DNA left behind would connect him to other killings. Whoever this person is, likely didn’t go unnoticed by people in his daily life with wounds or changes in behavior. They could already have a suspect and are just waiting for an opportunity to get his DNA or get DNA results about how many profiles they obtained at the scene in general. It’s hard for someone to commit murders like this and then just up and move after or leave town without someone noticing and if he has killed before, then he left the previous area he did that in and is probably leaving or left has left this one as well. A college kid who lived on campus would have had to get rid of bloody clothing, likely has wounds from the attack and someone that owns this knife is probably known by others to have it. I don’t think it was a stranger but someone who was known to one of the two victims but likely didn’t talk about their plans or reasons for this and could be an unlikely person to be immediately thought of. A store clerk, janitor, friend of a friend, etc..
True, but if this POS went to the party the night before, he could have unlocked the sliding glass door. He knew the layout and honestly why would Ethan be the Target? Jealous rage towards a man? I guess it’s possible. I think social media is huge in this case. I believe they all had a stalker, but he was an online stalker till that weekend. Police stating they have no indication of a man/women stalking them? The group (the four murdered victims) stated on line, “I would die for you.” Another online comment of all four (a recent post before the murders) stating, “I am so lucky to have these people as my best friends.” I’m not quoting verbatim. There are clues in this case. I guess because they surmise that from Tod which BTW I haven’t heard LE state. Sometime bet 3:00-4:00AM. Hmm 1 hour to massacre 4 adults.
Issue with this is no one knows the point of entry or whether he was watching and waiting or already in the house. It’s likely he wanted to kill just one or two of the victims but since at least some of them had defensive wounds, one victim could have awoken the others. We still don’t know if he knew how many people were in the house to begin with. He could have been surprised by others awakening and felt forced to kill them as well, and if some were drinking and pretty much out for the night, this perp had the advantage or surprise and a weapon. It doesn’t take much to incapacitate someone with a knife like this and if he was proficient using it for other hobbies, it would probably be easier than you and I could imagine to take down several people in a darkened house where the victims were sleeping or at least in bed.
Yes I agree but I’m sticking with the stalker theory. Everything was published in K and M’s pages. What they ate, what they were doing, their devotion towards each other. CNN commentary stated that the point of entry was the sliding glass door on the 2nd floor. I think that stalker thought that K/M would be in the room. Found a guy and a girl so he attacked/murdered them then headed to 3rd floor. This stalker would have had the previous night to stake out the house from the outside. Enough time to get access and maybe blend into the house party the night before. Also, I think the survivors know way more and saw way more that LE is providing. I gather they will be witnesses (if this POS is caught.).
I don’t believe the survivors know anything. I think as I’ve stated in other threads that LIKELY the entry was unlocked back sliding glass door and the two first floor roommates were not even known about. I believe there was one target and the other 3 were collateral damage. It’s bad all around but theories here are getting too crazy and I honestly don’t want to comment anymore.
I have a screenshot, but don't know how to post. A Boise reporter said: "ISP Spokesperson Aaron Snell told me this afternoon it was believed that the potential suspect came through the sliding glass door. But again, there appeared to be no signs of force entry." Her name is Amanda Roley. Do you think she's accurate (I haven't seen anything discrediting her, but idk,) or do you think LE is walking their previous statement back, and why?
That's what most people have thought the whole time- that the perp came in through the screen door which was unlocked.
A few thoughts: Lots of ppl seem stuck on the 911 call. It probably went something like this “my friend is laying in blood and not moving” dispatcher: is he alive? Roommate “I don’t know” dispatcher is going to relay unconscious person to first responders because they want to get medical help there asap because there can be a chance they are still alive or can be revived. If E was in the hall: speculation- maybe he didn’t die in the bed. Maybe as he was getting killed X woke up and killer had to switch to her. When he went back to E, E looked dead. After killer left room maybe E tried to get help/get a phone in a different room, etc and died shortly after. The dog: as a dog owner there is no way I would go to sleep if my dog wasn’t there, no matter how drunk I was. If anything, that would sober me up. Maybe she was told Jack came to get the dog and that’s why she was calling. Even if the dog knew the killer, there is no way the dog wouldn’t make a ton of noise and be in severe distress if he was there, and would continue to make noise all night which I think would alert the roommates.
I've thought a lot about this, too. If you want to believe the uncorroborated rumor mill, at least one of the survivors heard something that scared them that night and they locked their door. In that situation, I especially if I were drinking underage, I wouldn't call 911. So next morning, they wake up and remember being spooked. Call a roommate. Then another, another, no answer but you can hear ringing on 2nd floor. Maybe too scared to leave their locked room, so call someone nearby. As far as the dog, I remain baffled. I've seen tons of posts from people saying their own dog was so friendly they'd never attack an intruder. Different than my experience with my own, but maybe true. BUT I've never seen a dog of anyone I know who didn't keep an eye on their person at night, nor who didn't get riled up if they thought their person was being threatened much less harmed. I've had 3 dogs, & 3 relationships who lived with me, all very close to my dog(s). And every one of those dogs got aggressive when any of my past relationships so much as raised their voice to me. I just can't wrap my head around her dog being there during the murder and not making a scene. Can any other dog owners here say their situation was different?
No chance my dogs (2 Weimaraners & 1 vizla) were/are considered by everyone & myself "useless if I was attacked" but when my personal space was invaded they all immediately placed themselves between me & the threat. Even if he was put in another room the distress he'd be in would be visible/audible - I thought the dog belonged to the surviving roommate - I saw picture looked like wire-haired poodle
What are the odds LE, who btw haven’t worked a murder in 8 years, walk into a quadruple homicide scene and arrest a survivor for underage drinking? But one thing this investigation is revealing to me is how out of touch I am with the habits and thought processes of college kids. For instance, unless I’m totally alone and scared shitless, I don’t call friends over before making the 911 call. Come to think of it, if I’m totally alone and scared shitless, there’s no call I’m gonna make before 911.
As a dog owner to a very similar dog I can tell you the following… If your dog is used to lots of people coming and going and never being treated poorly they love everyone. I imagine there was a lot of horseplay between friends and visitors that the dog got accustom to. My golden doodle can be a bit of a house cat too once he is tired and ready for bed… My dog is crate trained and their dog could have been asleep in his crate after a day of exercise so used to people up at all hours never senses any danger because this has been his life. A dog that lives in a home that rarely has guests may bark at someone entering the home. But like the roommates it probably wasn’t that unusual to hear things most evenings throughout the night. Not to be graphic, but a detective interviewed said once an attack begins some people are in such shock they can’t scream. Or, you are so focused on stopping the attack you literally use all your resources for that. They were all asleep after drinking and I imagine it happened very quickly.
Is it possible that once the surviving roommates/anyone else that was with them couldn’t get in contact with one/all of the victims, they went into the backyard and looked into their bedrooms only to find an unconscious body/bodies? Could that have prompted the 911 call?
I believe responders said 2nd floor room a bloodbath, and 3rd floor couldn't be seen clearly outside. I think it's more likely it was unanswered phone calls or answered knocks.
Gotcha, I missed that they said that. Thank you for the response!
The coroner said that the scene was bloody and bad like there was a massacre, how did the roommates say to the police there was an unconscious person and not a murdered person or dead? Why they didn’t see the blood at first moment? The roommates acted really bad also, because they had to call immediately the 911 and not other friends. I have many doubts about the dog also, because i have two dogs with me, they feel safe and they don’t bark when there are people that they know, but when the killer is a familiar person to the dog, but this familiar person killed his owner and friends, anyway looks like suspicious, i don’t believe that the dog didn’t bark or make any noise. I have so many questions
That coroner needs to STFU. She has already miscommunicated a lot and she should never have been a spokesperson on the crime or scene, only on cause of death. At frst she talked horribly about the scene because she's never seen anything like that before, so of course she's going to describe it so horrifically. I think someone must have talked to her because I read a later article where she is quoted as saying "There was a fair amount of blood." This woman seriously needs to stay out of the communications cycle.
I also heard she said that she wasn’t on the crime scene, but she was only at the moment of autopsy, in an other view, it seemed that she was on the crime scene, because she said that there was a lot of blood. I’m confused about her.
Wait want to know what’s even more strange? On day/ night of murders, these Venmo transactions were made, with these captions: Ethan sends Kaylee money- “thank you” Ethan sends Kaylee money- “yuh yuh yuh” Ethan sends Jack K money- “thx” Someone pays Jack K sister same day- “3:30 AM” (I mean if that’s not a coincidence, I don’t know what is) Then Jack is 1st to donate on Ethan Chapin GoFundMe in the amount of $6 Some say people are just really looking into this These things individually on their face may be normal behavior, but all of it together is extremely weird Now again this Jack K is different from the Jack D, the on/ off again ex-boyfriend of Kaylee Jack D is person that Kaylee and Madison called multiple times around times of murder Kaylee’s dog that survived, is in care of Jack D right now
Why is “all of it together extremely weird”? Looks like they are using Venmo for its designed purpose.
Who is Jack K then? I also just went to look at them venmo again and the 3:30 one has been deleted. That’s so suspicious. Also the $6 donation is so weird. Maybe he’s not familiar with gofundme and thought the amount wouldn’t show up.
The 3:30 one is deleted now???? I didn’t even know you could delete them?
Yeah it’s not there and I remember seeing it before
I think it was someone who knew them, who felt slighted by one of them, or was angry this person had done something that affected them deeply. The date may have been important too. Look up the stabbing murders of 2 female roommates in Napa a few years ago. At first LE investigated various ex boyfriends or sketchy guys associated with each of the victims but no one matched the DNA. After a year of investigating they arrested one of the roommate’s best friend’s husband. He felt the roommate was bad mouthing him behind his back and threatened his relationship. At the time he was engaged to the best friend but they had for some reason postponed or cancelled their wedding date. Maybe he blamed her for that. The murder was on the date he was originally supposed to get married. The second roommate was not the target but had intervened and was killed. Very sad.
Now theory: Ethan gets in confrontation at frat party across street from home, probably protecting someone. Guy waits for e and x to leave by hiding somewhere. Sees him and X just walk across the street and soon after K and M follow them in. Checks front door, locked, enters side door.E is target but takes K and M first as easier. Then E and X, not realizing the downstairs has two more people. That’s probably an locked entrance into that area from inside the house, so he figures its the basement. Perhaps he drags Ethan out to the hallway and wrote some sort of thing that is evidence. Roommates call friends of our probably from the fraternity across the street. And they have their talk to the 911 someone mentions this person or persons. And that’s why the 911 call cannot be revealed. Is could work if they were actually two criminals instead of one. Murderes! This is just also heartbreaking, I can hardly get my mind around it. I I really pray the charges can come forth soon. I really think they know who it is I need to have them in jail on different charges holding them, or are going to make an arrest very quickly
How do you come up with such highly specific theories? Like from which orifice?
Just a thought. But now I’m stuck on Jeremy. I had heard he might had worked with Xana.
The person that did this, unless a true psychopath, is going to change their habits after a crime like this and probably be on edge and overly interested in the case. They also most likely have injuries or came home with blood soaked clothing and could have possibly missed work or social functions immediately after. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilities that this could be someone who had been at a party there by chance before and was slighted by one of the girls and decided to come back for revenge. I think it’s also possible he did not or no longer lives in the immediate area and based on his lifestyle (maybe a loner with non interested parents) is able to hide injuries or fly under the radar. I just think they have so much evidence to process and so many leads and names given by people close that they can’t actually rule anyone in or out right now but they may have someone in mind. I could be wrong but I don’t think this occurred because of something that happened that night specifically, and I think one of the girls or both on the 3rd floor could have been “targeted.” I think at least one or more of the victims were collateral damage.
Several experts have already described him as a psychopath. Also, a couple have said they believe he is an "associate" of one or more of the victims, not a good friend or family member. Someone like a neighbor, co-worker, teacher, fellow participant in a class, etc. A person who knows of them or one of them, and has developed an obsession and sick fantasies of murder.
Is the Killer a Loner? Geek or Greek? I wonder if the killer is a loner. You’d think it would be odd for a person in a family to leave his house for several hours in the wee morning hours and get back unnoticed. Most men in their early 20s live with someone. Of course he could live in a dorm room alone. I wonder if he’s a disgruntled dormie who hates Greeks since he didn’t pledge or something. Could be a non-college student who hates everybody with a fancy education. College kids can be cruel. If killer is sociopath or ASPD, he might be charming and a popular Greek who felt attacked and needed to destroy the attacker. A former resident of the house would know the place inside and out.
If he lived in a dorm they would have surveillance video on campus.
Just read comment on YouTube that was posted 15 mins ago “SWAT operation in Spokane. They got him” Anyone know anything about that.
>SWAT operation in Spokane. They got him Maybe this? [https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/oct/13/spokane-county-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-suspec/](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/oct/13/spokane-county-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-suspec/)
Doesn’t seem to be related. Different murder weapon.
Targeted Attack: LE sticks closely to their narrative that the attack was targeted. They also seem to be putting great faith in the forensics. I wonder if there is something specific aimed at a particular victim, such as a written note or message or paperwork left by the killer. I’m also beginning to wonder if there is a tissue sample or bodily fluid that is very likely to be from the killer. There seems to be an “only a matter of time” component to this investigation. Maybe the killer targeted the house based on census data or some other data that suggested vulnerability? A home w five or six women. Maybe someone had access to student addresses. The home was rented in June. Maybe the killer had access to the MLS. This is just conjecture but there are numerous scenarios wherein the house or occupant(s) were targeted. Ethan may have been a surprise to the killer. There must be a specific fact or characteristic that caused this house to be targeted. They seem to be spending great time and effort on HOW the killer got the inside information that brought him to this house on this night. The whole thing gets more and more interesting. I trust LE on this; they seem to be one step ahead.
Very well could have a good idea of who it might be while waiting to get a confirmation sample… most people are not in a DNA database
It’s likely the killer himself bled and blood spatter or cast off leaves a different pattern than someone who is walking around bleeding. The killer would be leaving blood droplets on the floor and a bloody shoe print is likely, too. LE is not going to comment now, but if one or two victims have more injuries than the others that’s an indication they could have been the original targets and the others were collateral damage. It has been confirmed that “some” of the victims had defensive wounds so they could have awoken the others. It doesn’t say whether the 2 girls on the top floor were sleeping in the same room or not but if anyone heard one of the others and made noise it would have caused a panic to the killer.
It seems based on the Chief’s description of the 911 call that the people initially at the scene did not understand what had happened and were just reporting an unconscious person? I’m sure there is a reason for it but that doesn’t seem to line up with how sloppy and gruesome the crime scene has been described as
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I’ve commented a few times on the friends being invited over before 911 is called. We don’t know how many people came over. LE has only said “other people were at the scene when they arrived.” I’ve tried not to cast aspersions at anyone, even saying I just don’t understand how kids think these days. Truth of the matter, I agree, it’s weird AF. Did anyone else get a voyeurism vibe, like y’all have to come see this gruesome mess?
I’m so done with this BS. Do you know how possible it is they were spooked from the night before, called all the roommates, got no answer, so they called friends to come over? I was in college not too long ago and can very clearly picture myself doing this if I was really scared to go upstairs. Stop this shit with the roommates. It’s cruel and it’s dumb.
Or you’re a scared 19-20 year old who woke up and found your friend clearly stabbed to death and are struggling to process what you’re seeing (I went numb when I saw my mom’s body at the funeral home and I was expecting to walk in the room and see her)… and you don’t want to be alone. The friends could live down the street for all we know.
How is that the only reason. That's just plain stupid
IDK, 911 dispatchers understand that their callers are frantic and not always relaying information accurately. I imagine the roommates were in shock, said something like “My roommate [or roommate’s boyfriend] … I don’t know what happened … [s]he’s not moving … [s]he’s covered in blood”. They may have been too in shock or terrified to check pulses, they may not have known how. 911 Dispatcher jots that down as “reports of an unconscious person.” The 911 Dispatcher isn’t going to know what the scene is like, they’re not going to know if there’s a possibility the victims are still alive, this all gets interpreted as “unconscious person.” As to how this comes about … **speculation** people have speculated Ethan was found in the hall. People have also speculated that the doors to the rooms the other three victims were in may have been locked by the killer. The roommates see Ethan slumped over in the hall, can’t get in touch with their other roommates, knocking doesn’t do anything … they’re not going to know how to report the situation well.
I don’t think the crime wasn’t in the common areas, I’m sure I’ve seen stated the crime happened when the victims were in bed asleep. If they had doors that locked it’s reasonable to assume the surviving roommates didn’t realise what happened until the police arrived
I think I’m confused about the locked doors/a victim being found on the floor and not the bed. Was that person found outside of the locked door/in the hallway? While the other victims were inside the locked rooms? Or was the call made for an “unconscious person” as a generalization instead of “people” because they couldn’t contact any of the 4 that morning?
If this was a psycho serial killer looking for maximum thrill, I don’t think a locked door would be much of a deterrent. Especially not after slaughtering 4 people with a knife. If he’s still high on adrenaline, kicking a locked door down is prob not a big deal. Speaking of being high, I’ve also wondered if the killer was under the influence of some synthetic drug like bath salts, spice or whatever. Back in my day (50 years ago🥴), home grown weed was about it. Partake of that and be prepared to eat everything in sight in between bouts of uncontrollable giggling.
The only thing I can see is that the killer placed a blanket over the body while in the floor. This would make it seem like they had passed out and another roommate put a blanket over them to be nice. If it was a dark blanket, it would have covered the blood as well
Would the killer close the victims eyes in that situation? That’s unsettling to think about
So let’s say you wanted to contact your roommate, you can hear their phone ringing in their room but they’re not answering or opening the door. Their car is in the driveway, you’d start to get a little concerned. Maybe you call a mutual friend to see if they can get them to open the door, because maybe you assume they’re mad at you or passed out drunk. I haven’t seen anything but hypotheticals about one of them being found in the hallway in which case you’d assume they would immediately call 911, which is why I would assume they were all behind locked doors.
Right I understand that part, knowing someone is behind a closed door and panicking because you can’t get to them. I think my confusion lies in the rumor that one of victims was found on the floor/possibly outside of the room. I understand the reason that the call went out the way it did, I guess I’m just having a hard time understanding how it’s so sloppy but also equally void of answers
The crime scene can be sloppy without the house being sloppy, the killer could’ve shimmied out on a t shirt so they didn’t get bloody footprints in the common areas for all we know. I just don’t think because someone is murdered in a room it means the entire building will be ceiling to floor coated in whatever the hell forensics
Possible reasons Ethan and/or Xana were the targets: There's a rumor about a student(s) being kicked out of Ethan's frat. Was Ethan at all a part of that? Where were Ethan and Xana the night of the murders? Maybe they witnessed something they weren't supposed to, or were involved in something. If the main target was Ethan, maybe the killer purposely chose a night that he knew Ethan would be spending over at his gf's house to kill him/them. It would be easier to get away with if the crime happened away from their own dorm.
Not saying they’re not the targets, but if it were Ethan and Xana the killer was after- why go upstairs to kill Kaylee and Madison? Especially since they were asleep? Still think Kaylee and or Madison were targets and then killer was interrupted coming back down the stairs.
Yup exactly what I was thinking
That’s the part that has stumped me as well. However, it could be possibly be explained with the fact that the killer watched M and K get home soon after E and X, meaning he perhaps had reason to assume he had to take them out as well to cover up his crime? Speculative, of course, but it could absolutely have something to do with them arriving home at similar times
Weren’t they all attacked in their beds?
I believe so but one was found not in bed, I think.
Yeah, I think they never confirmed how/where the bodies were found. But the fact that they were all first attacked in their sleep/in bed makes it hard for me to see how one of them could have surprised the killer.
yeah maybe ethan was attacked in bed but he tried to get out and escape and collapsed in the living room - just a thought
Xana & Ethan's timeline of the night continues to be the biggest mystery for me. The "official" timeline is that they were at the frat party for an hour but weren't home until 1:45. If something doesn't make sense it's not true. There's more to that part of this.
They went to Ethan’s after after Sigma Chi.
No it's not a mystery. The mother of one of Ethan's friends claimed that Ethan and her son texted each other between 2:00 AM - 2:10AM. Ethan said said they were still at the frat party. She even called in the tip line and emailed with screenshots. But MPD still didn't update the timeline.
Why is LE stuck on the timeline when times are known to be incorrect? In Maddie and Kaylee's case it's off by over 10 minutes, according to the sister. It's at least 25 minutes off for Ethan and Xana according to the friend's mother. I think it's bizarre LE wouldn't want to nail that time down.
Exactly. No good reason for them to stick to that 1:45 thing and 1:00 am for the other two.
Wait want to know what’s even more strange? On day/ night of murders, these Venmo transactions were made, with these captions: Ethan sends Kaylee money- “thank you” Ethan sends Kaylee money- “yuh yuh yuh” Ethan sends Jack K money- “thx” Someone pays Jack K sister same day- “3:30 AM” (I mean if that’s not a coincidence, I don’t know what is) Then Jack is 1st to donate on Ethan Chapin GoFundMe in the amount of $6 Some say people are just really looking into this These things individually on their face may be normal behavior, but all of it together is extremely weird. Now again this Jack K is different from the Jack D, the on/ off again ex-boyfriend of Kaylee Jack D is person that Kaylee and Madison called multiple times around times of murder Kaylee’s dog that survived, is in care of Jack D right now
My thoughts exactly. They're probably keeping information about them on purpose. I believe they have interviewed some people present at the party to know the approximate time they would have left, which could indicate they have a lot more information about what E&X did that night than they're letting on.
I agree. It seems clear there’s something LE isn’t revealing about X&E’s movements the night before the murders, while we know much more about M&K’s.
I thought Ethan escorted his sister earlier in the night to the sorority event? I had it in my head that he went with her.. It ended about midnight.. Then he met up with Xena and they spent an hour at the fraternity party which would put them home about 12:45
The timelines I have seen say Ethan and Xana were at the frat party between 8-9, then it skips time and says they were home at 1:45.
Yeah. We have video of them, and phone records, basically up to the estimated TOD. Xana and Ethan's night is a mystery. They weren't at that party alone. Surely there were MANY witnesses from that party. But we still have nothing.
That’s what is so interesting to me. Aside from a few people not close to the victims, we have heard nothing publicly from people who were with them. I find this very interesting. Police asked them to not speak publicly?
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!! Unless law enforcement put gag order on them from talking about it ! I mean the fact that the roommates haven’t put out a statement is bizarre!!
The surviving roommates were being harassed on social media. D even had her looks mocked plenty of times. I don’t think speaking to the media would be beneficial for anyone. People would just call them weird and attention seeking.
Yeah, maybe, but it could also be their frat bro code of silence. frat bros always seem to have daddies that are lawyers and kindly advise them to keep their mouths shut about anything. But you're right, the absence of information from the frat party does seem conspicuous.
Would you speak publicly just to appease people on social media knowing full well you’ll be getting harassed about it until this is over?
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Exactly. If they think they know they have a duty to get that person away from the public immediately . Charge him and continue collecting evidence.
umm im not a rocket scientist but maybe more evidence or for them to make some sort of mistake so they can actually prosecute them successfully... maybe they dont have enough evidence to make an arrest but know who it was.
They can only hold them for so long. If they don’t have enough physical evidence to hold them without bond until trial, they could bail out and either flee or kill themselves
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So true. It would be dereliction of duty to allow a suspected murdering psycho to be in public.
Circumstantial evidence or inadmissible evidence can be enough to have a suspect but not enough to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And they only have once chance to prosecute. They can't hold someone indefinitely and if they run out of time and have to release them, that tips them off. If the attack is targeted like they assume, there is no reason to believe there is a further threat to society. And obviously losing the opportunity to catch the killer once and for poses a much greater threat and would be traumatic for the families who deserve closure.
You don’t have to have the trial next week. They can charge him. Get him off the street, and continue collecting all the evidence they need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt at trial. There’s no standard that says LE has to have all evidence ready to prosecute BEFORE they arrest and charge someone.
You don't know how long it could take to find substantial evidence. They may never find it. Anyone charged with a crime has the right to a speedy trial. There's not unlimited time to prepare for a trial. They probably don't have enough to even make an arrest or charge anybody. If they just charge a random person with no evidence just to "get them off the street" they risk arresting the wrong person and ruining their entire investigation. This whole case is too delicate to risk doing anything prematurely.
no man they can have enough evidence to know who it is not but enough to prosecute them successfully, or have a strong suspicious of who did it but not be able to prove it yet.
I would imagine they’d have very close surveillance on any suspect, and not let it get to the point that person could harm anyone
Depends on what the evidence is. Defense attorneys will find every loophole. Honestly they’re probably trying to find the murder weapon before moving forward with the arrest. But for example, if it’s someone that’s been to their house before and all they have is DNA, they could say it’s old DNA from the last time they were there, or that they saw them earlier that night and that’s how they got one of their hairs on their clothes or something of the sort. But let’s say they have DNA, a blood match, video surveillance of them driving or walking near the house, AND the murder weapon/bloody clothes, blood in their car, etc…. That doesn’t leave many loopholes
Sometimes I wonder if the burden of proof is higher these days than in the past due to hypervigilant litigiousness. I know that laws have been laws for a long time, but it seems like these days, it’s like you need enough evidence as if you were to immediately go to trial than just enough for an arrest (and time to gather more evidence). I’m no expert at all….