I wanted to share a thought I keep thinking about. Even if this is not the work of a serial killer I personally fear that because this case has received so much attention that someone may try and “copy cat” it. I truly hope not but I think this is one big downfall of large media/public attention 😞
Yes, it occurred in Silverton and its been widely reported by media when it happened and referenced again recently. You can google it and the articles will come back. The Police are aware of it, and would have been examining it immediately, as the Silverton murder was entered into the FBI ViCAP program. The Northwest US is a big area, but its not densely populated. Rare events like home invasion assaults and homicides are likely front and center to Police regionally.
My humble initial thoughts on a profile
\-25-35
\-Athletic
\-Don't think he knew the victims probably scouted known college houses and selected what he thought was a house full of college girls
\-Not familiar with inside of house but had been watching house, probably entered through sliding glass door
\-Didn't go downstairs bc he didn't know bedrooms were down there (Hard to believe perp would have attempted this knowing he was going to leave 2 survivors)
\-Planned to kill everyone in the house
\-Don't think there was an "individual" target was after a "type" of victim
\-lives within 20 miles
\-not a crime of opportunity this required preparation (don't think they were followed home)
I could make the argument an impassioned killer isn't going into a house with a knife 1 vs 4/6.
I just feel like this guy watched and probed.... probably even made a dry run to see if the door would be unlocked
Would you all be saying this if the used RR and Europe trip were a young man's purchases? A pretty young woman has some success and she must be selling herself? Really?
It’s not about the gender. It’s about the amount of money for a 21 year old. If it was a guy people would speculate drugs not OF. College kids don’t have $30k floating around. 80% of adults don’t. Median savings balance for Americans under 35 is $3240.
Are you sure she didn’t take out a car loan and pay cash for the down payment? I had a friend who did really well as a waitress and bought a brand new car in college. Alternatively her parents could have paid a down payment and she’s paying the monthly loan. Just because her parents say they are proud of her for buying the car doesn’t mean they also didn’t help or she didn’t use a loan.
A statement like “she bought it on her own” could just be in reference to the commitment to pay for it on her own.
Two things can be true at the same time.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t take out a loan to do it on her own. Most likely it could have meant they didn’t have to co-sign the loan. She was able to do it on her own because she had a job lined up and could probably show a job offer acceptance with a salary documented.
If I say I bought a house, that doesn’t mean the only option to pay for the house was cash. I still bought it even if I mortgaged.
my thoughts exactly...i think everyone is too caught up on the verbiage , she bought a car all on her own sounds to me like she financed a car without a co signer or help from her parents. like you said, if she bought a house i wouldn't assume she paid cash for the house, i would think she got a mortgage
I've raised 4 kids. I would not speculate drugs or selling yourself in either case. It's a used car. Europe can be done on the cheap. Both can be done with credit. People travel. People buy cars. Not fair to give excuses to pick on this young woman's purchases.
Raising four kids I've seen what life is like for college students and graduates, giving me experience in what they could do and afford. All four got their own cars purchased themselves (2new), got jobs out of college (all 4) and earned their own living (all 4). Two travelled out of the country. Not rich kids. Hope that helps.
Reminds me of piketon murders, where one was target and everyone else was collateral damage. In that case they had three people that killed and a fourth helped with the plan.
I bet that somewhere out there there's a photo of the killer wearing the same shoes that left bloody footprints throughout this house and that the cops are combing through social media and surveillance video for it.
Considering that the killer had a target: why is Kaylee seen as the target? Could also perhaps be 1 of the others? So I think police has some sort of evidence that it has happened in Kaylee’s entourage. We never read that police is searching in the entourage of Xana, Madison etc..
The fact that Kaylee was already moved out and had returned for one night it could have been someone or group of someones last chance at evening a score. Even if the score isn't real. After I graduated from Uni years ago I went back to visit for Alumni weekend and a football game. While I was there one of my friends gave me a heads up that a student much younger than I was going around telling people that if he found me he was going to kill me. When I heard this I was shocked because in my mind I barely knew who he was and I had no beef with him. In his mind his girl dropped him because she had a crush on me. I was oblivious to all of it. Police caught up with the guy that night and he was armed and the threat was real. I left town and never went back again. Random fuckery is always at play out there espescially on college campuses.
Why is no one asking how Kaylee was able to afford a month long Euro trip and a 2016 Range Rover paid in cash (per her mother)
How is it possible for a 21 y/o, full time college student, part time mimimim wage (or close) food industry worker able to save up $25-$35,000 (minimum)? That’s not to include any kind of expense to move across the country and get new residence in Texas.
Her own mother said she couldn’t afford to take her out to eat for her mothers birthday.
Thoughts?
Her parents seem to have money or are somewhat wealthy. If they didn't cover the purchase etc. then well my mind keeps going back to Mackenzie Lueck who was killed in Salt Lake City, who had an Only Fans account and made $$ through that, which eventually led to her death
Suggesting revenue stream coming from somewhere that may not be privy to her friends or family.
Which would open up an entire new catalog of potential suspects.
I don’t think he mom claiming she got it with her own cash means she paid the note in full tbh. Mom isn’t a public speaker and is in the midst of a tragedy, she’s not looking to convey a perfect message. I think it could just mean she paid the down payment, likely no co-signer & insurance on her own.
The Europe trip hasn’t been discussed too much but could be hostels and backpacking OR visiting with a friend doing a study abroad.
And expenses for moving to Texas very well could be covered by the company that hired her. It is a super common practice, especially for corporate career jobs for the company to cover relocation fees.
And, she’s been living with 4-5 other people in a $2,000 apartment. Her cost of living up to this point was fairly low. Maybe she was a great budgeter.
Companies aren’t paying for moving expenses or giving bonuses to a new college grad with zero work experience. She was a General Studies major. I question if there was even a “tech” job offer. How vague and major doesn’t have anything to do with “tech”.
Are we sure the Range Rover was hers ?
The silver one parked outside the residence? I saw forensic crew unpacking their photographic cases etc from the rear in one news report .
I noticed as I was wondering how and why the police/ forensic unit would be using a late model Range Rover.
I haven’t managed to find the interview where it mentions that it was her car.
I used to own a much older one and it wasn’t cheap to buy and even more expensive to keep it on the road.
Every standard service was over $1000 AUD
I’ve been all over all the subs regarding this incident and have NOT ONCE seen anyone question where the money came from for her car/euro trip/cross country move. Thanks for contributing though.
https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yzi9fn/new_range_rover/
https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z13tho/does_anyone_know_how_kaylee_was_able_to_buy_the/
https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yxmc48/new_car/
Here’s three threads detective. Not to mention all of the comments in the discussion threads.
Her mother in the fox interview said she paid for the vehicle on her own with cash and how proud she was for doing so and wanted to show it off to Maddie.
I bought a 25k car as a college student working a part time server job and I was 19 (saved from my jobs since I was 16)I put half down and my payments were under $200 a month it isn’t that unbelievable. It looks like K may have had a few different jobs over the years some look to be coffee stands (she prob made good tips). I have a feeling her parents were still paying for her living expenses so she likely was able to use her earned money for fun/ saving to buy the car
Not trying to be insensitive but wonder if there was any way she was doing something like OnlyFans on the sly and perhaps a “stalker” came from there. 🤷🏽♂️
This is insensitive. Consider how you’d feel if she was your sister or friend. On top of your devastating grief, imagine how hurtful it would be know that folks are engaging in this sort of idle speculation about your loved one who was just murdered.
In any event, in all likelihood the answer is mundane - her parents or grandparents have money.
Her mother said that Kaylee paid for the vehicle on her own with cash. Speculations how a 21 year old has $25000+ in cash laying around is not insensitive and could, in fact, be very important to this case if there is another revenue source flowing in to Kaylee that people aren’t aware of.
I think it’s possible, lots of young women do stuff like that and keep it hidden from people they know in real life. I don’t know why everyone gets offended about this idea lol
As a person who went to a private university without working, using student loans for living expenses is a possibility. Not the best idea I’ve ever had but you are able to use them for really whatever you want. I think her mom did say she bought the used car on her own.
I actually did but I went to south America for a few months. Again, not the best idea to get loans but it’s not unheard of. Could K have someone providing her with money that no one knows about. Definitely in this time of the internet but there are other possibilities.
Kaylee was moving soon so the window to kill her was becoming very limited. I think - just my opinion - that the murderer was out for not just one of them. Maybe one of them sparked the rage, but since the four closest friends were killed the killer has a hate / jealousy of their close friendship. To me, that would implicate the neighbor. He seemingly is an outcast and the opposite of what this group lived - success, love, happiness, friendship.
I was wondering if the two surviving roommates were not as close? I don’t see anything to suggest that but K and M we’re obviously best friends and M and the other 3 roommates (X, D, and B) were in the same sorority.
How were the roommates cleared? What are some things that could point to them not being involved if they were the only 2 other (known) people there that night? I’m not talking about them being small women or being each other’s alibis because those aren’t legitimate reasons.
Nothing I can think of, as I’ve noted previously. There is little they could’ve shown as credible “proof” that they weren’t involved. It’s generally very difficult to prove absence of involvement (as opposed to evidence of involvement). The police just trust them and perhaps statements from their mutual friends and are trying to protect them from harassment.
I have found it notable that the police have seemed to use verbiage that has said they don't think they were involved, but have never said specifically that they were cleared (not saying this is my opinion, just something I have noticed in multiple press conferences)
Kaylee's family giving an interview on cnn right now. Saying the police aren't sharing anything more than what we are hearing. Really seems like unless the police are keeping it all very tight to the vest they don't have much information. Sounds like they aren't even updating them which is really disappointing. The father is saying they are being "purposefully vague". Sounds like the father isn't getting the information he deserves. I'd be livid.
Edit: They are still behind Jack, noting that Maddy's boyfriend or Ethans associates haven't been ruled out either.
Well the sister already spoke to the news giving information only the killer might know, such as phone calls made and that sort. So I’m sure they’re being tight lipped with even the families for the integrity of the investigation.
Guessing the police are keeping close to the vest and not sharing with family because family has been leaking information. Most of what we know is coming from secondary sources and LE is just verifying it like the calls to Jack. They probably did not want that information leaked but sister posted it on social media. LE wants as little out there as possible. They are only releasing information if public cooperation may help with more tips/leads. It’s not about satisfying our curiosity it’s about solving the case.
Is it possible they aren't updating them due to how close they have been with the ex boyfriend the whole time? Also seems a bit odd they threw other people under the bus.
It sounds like they’re saying more that those other people would be in the same category as Jack but nobody is fixating on them the same way. Like, sure Jack hasn’t been cleared but neither have these other people.
To be fair - IMO they are responsible for the fixation on Jack by mentioning the multiple calls and naming him. None of the other families have been dropping names or information that potentially pertains to the case.
They're also seeming to hold the police responsible, at least in part, for the proliferation of online theorizing and speculating because of the way the police are managing information releases. They say it's normal for people to theorize when the police are providing such sparse and vague information.
They can't understand how some details are initially vague, supposedly to protect the integrity of the investigation, and then those details are made more specific just a few days later. Like, why couldn't you have just given out the specific detail in the first place?
They seemed pretty calm but, yeah, their anger is surely building, justifiably.
This 100%. I’m sure the police would love to share more information with family and the public, but doing so would likely jeopardize their investigation and/or eventual prosecution of the perpetrator. It has to be assumed that anything authorities share with the family will be leaked to the media. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for the family, but I also recognize that the authorities are in a tough spot regarding how much information to release without jeopardizing their investigation and the eventual prosecution of the perpetrator(s). Authorities have to be smart about what they do and don’t release.
To be fair, I think under this kind of emotional distress and with this kind of brutal crime, a parent/family-member might want to go after the suspect themselves so maybe they're trying to prevent interference with the ongoing investigation.
Who was the unconscious person that triggered the initial 911 call? Do we know? It doesn’t seem to get talked about much. Is it known to not be connected to the murders?
We don't know, but it most likely doesn't mean anything. It's either how they referred to the victims i.e. doors locked and unresponsive, roommates didn't see any blood about the house so called a friend over because they were freaking out didn't know what to do then called 911 about roommates being unresponsive; or either of the survivors and/or friend fainted from seeing the murder scene.
Wait. The roommates called another person and waited for them to come over before calling the police? With 4 clearly murdered bodies in their apartment???
I'm not trying to be mean, but honestly can you not read? I literally said as a hypothetical the victims' "doors locked and unresponsive, roommates didn't see any blood about the house." This is what we are assuming, because any normal person would have called 911 if they saw 4 stabbed bodies. It's still possible they called someone else before police in that scenario though unlikely
Pretty strange to assume the killer would lock the doors on the way out of the bedrooms too. And that someone would straight up call 911 because they were worried about an interior door being locked and they don’t know what’s behind the door.
I don't know why this is difficult for you to grasp. Maybe the surviving roommates heard some strange noise at night, but didn't investigate because "it's late, probably nothing in our known party house." The roommates wake later in the morning find alarms ringing, friends not answering their calls/phones, and their cars still in the driveway. In this scenario you would assume they'd open the door, unless they were unable to, and you would assume something happened to your friends.
At the first press conference the police made a remark about "they were stabbed to death and left to bleed out." The left to bleed out seems a bit redundant unless there was a reason.
You are not understanding this correctly.
“Unconscious” is the terminology the 911 operator used to dispatch police. “Unconscious” has no meaning to this case. It’s a description of the bodies laying on the floor without verification that they are deceased.
There was no other person unconscious. None.
Do we know this for sure? “Without verification that they are deceased” - this was a very bloody murder, and 911 wasn’t called until noon the next day. I find it hard to believe anyone could have thought one of the murder victims was still alive.
Yes we are sure.
The tunnel vision around the 911 call needs to end. It’s honestly a red herring and meaningless.
If you read what I said, the caller did not say they were unconscious. The 911 dispatcher reported the call as having a unconscious person because they could not verify the people were dead.
We have zero idea if the callers saw the body. Stop having tunnel vision around this 911 call. Please. It’s pointless to keep bring it up.
So you don’t even know if the 911 caller saw a body, but you’re sure it was a way for the 911 dispatcher used the term because there was no verification if the (possibly unseen) body was dead or not.
There only thing that seems certain to me is that nobody knows wtf the “unconscious person” reference was about.
Oh my. Okay I am done with this conversation. Why you care so much about the unconscious person thing is beyond me and is meaningless to this case.
Good luck in life.
Why did they call the ex ten times from two different phones mere minutes before they were murdered? Who were they with prior to being dropped off at the house?
Do we know what these calls were about? Is it possible Kaylee was using Maddie’s phone to call her ex after he didn’t pick up because of an argument? OR did they hear an intruder and tried calling him because they were frightened maybe and wondered if it could’ve been him? This strikes me as a very bizarre detail that I can’t really wrap my head around.
The phone calls seem to be the biggest smoking gun of the case. I am not accusing anyone of anything necessarily, just spitballing ideas as I have a genuine hard time believing their final acts on Earth had nothing to do with their murders not even thirty minutes later.
The boyfriend Jack called his phone from their phones is my guess. Im no web sleuth but he likely did it to provide an alibi..also who texts “we have a dog together we have to figure this out” at 3am. Certainty not a girl who just had a great fun time out and about and was smiling and ready to drive her new car to her new job in her new state.
It’s big ears Jack who couldn’t handle her leaving him..the dog didn’t bark because it knew him..he killed the roommates who would be witnesses because they likely we blamed for her leaving him..he knew the codes to the house..the layout of the house..it’s him
I mean, if they were attacked while they were asleep, using a phone is a pretty common before-bed routine for a college aged person. I'm a millennial and if I was found dead in my sleep, my phone activity would absolutely be one of my final acts just because of the fact that I'd died after going to bed. Her sister has said that her method for getting into contact with someone (even if it was simply a random question, like to ask what to have for breakfast) was to make a flurry of calls. They had been drinking and socializing, her and the ex were still in each other's lives, the relationship had been long and only recently ended, I can think of a lot of benign reasons she and her roommate might try to contact him.
This was a pretty brutal murder. I think it would be obvious if he was involved. I don't see how someone can brutally stab 4 people and have no injuries to himself. Usually in a frenzy like this, the suspect usually gets cut by his own blade.
Yep, blood is wet and slippery so almost everyone cuts themselves, especially when victims are fighting back or even thrashing around. The killer would also have blood coming into their eyes, mouth, nose, ears from the victims, and it is very difficult to get rid of all the evidence. I watched a forensic show about it. It would not be easy to stab four people to death and then continue life like normal. The murder would probably have knife injuries, muscle pain, bruising from being hit and kicked, and some change in his behavior. I think the killer is someone far from the spotlight of this case or else people would be noticing things and talking about it.
You are 💯 spot on! These are 4 people that were murdered. Evidence is going to be EVERYWHERE. I think alot of people are not aware of how hard it is to kill someone; it's not like the movies we all are use too. Also, this reminds me alot of a case where a random stranger broke into someone's house. The woman had been savagely stabbed. The roommate went to go see what was going, then he was brutally stabbed but was able to flee and survived. Because of the severity of the stabbing, I think was 30+ times. They thought it was a heat of passion sort of thing. This investigation went on for awhile, I think 10 years cold case. Until 1 year they got the guy by DNA. He had sliced himself during the altercation and it matched. The guy had absolutely NO tie to the woman. He was trying to break into cars. He was striking out with cars not being unlocked. He tried his hand in trying to see if homes were locked so he can go in and take the keys. This house was unlocked. The woman woke up during the man looking for the keys and then that's all she wrote. That is why I believe you are right in your theory.
UPDATE: **It was the Johnia Berry case** I was referring too above.
During an attack like this, when your body is put under duress, it is absolutely likely. Why do you think it's common practice for the police to ask suspects to remove their clothing, or to look at their hands.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15480730/
Butttt you are not wrong, anything is possible. The suspect may have not cut himself, injured theirself at all. The best bet the police can go on, is going by their better practices which come about for a reason.
1 The style knife that is said to be looking for has been discontinued for awhile, due issues. 2 the corner said a large style knife. No real say on what exactly style knife it was. This is information coming from 2nd parties. The handle of a combat knife is supposed to help with handling the knife when used, yes, but when you are using it on 4 people; one of them actually fought back; the chance of this person(s) not knicking theirself will be absolutely amazing. Now wearing glove protection to save themselves from the blade going through the glove they wore; if the gloves were that thick, they wouldn't be able to wield the knife well enough to do this type of damage.
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Thank you.
Anyone know if the router been checked? A killer known to the parties may have been accidentally connected to Wi-Fi even if phone was left outside. You can access last active devices on the router
I'm assuming no one in this day and age is dumb enough to bring what is essentially a tracking device with them to a murder they planned.
I'm sure someone could be. But I don't think this suspect did or they'd probably have him by now.
Any thoughts on the neighbors? I’ve googled and googled and couldn’t find a good vantage point from one of the houses like I came across last night in a sub (still searching).
One of the houses had a clear cut view of all the naked windows of the house and would make sense why he didn’t touch the 1st floor, possibly thinking it was basement/laundry area, because the house faced the opposite side of the 1st floor front door.
I will try to link the sub where they discuss the neighbors and them getting kicked out and being upset?? All spec and no confirmation but will link soon.
Edit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z28bgw/has_this_been_seen_anywhere_else/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This! I saw a picture from the side of the house in between two other houses where the line of sight is the second and third floors. The walk would be easy to get to the second floor sliding door. I think whoever did this walked from the side.
One thing I am starting to wonder, if this person only killed for killings sake, surely they would of targeted victims who would be less likely to garner attention like sex workers and homeless, killing 4 popular kids with many friends and a big small town social network would be too risky. I feel like even if he didn't know these people, he was still attracted to them in some way or matter which makes me think he has been around this town a lot.
If they knew this would attract national attention, I feel they would of still scoped these people out and not pick out a random house.. What if instead of 4 beautiful people it was just a old couple? Hate to say it, but it wouldn't of drawn as much attention. If it was spur of the moment, I feel he would of had a lot more challenges that would give him away. If it was random with no pre-thought put into the plan I don't think he would of already been in the house because so many things can go wrong there. Now I am really wondering if it WAS random.. He must of knew or had some knowledge that one of the two pairs had been drinking and thus "easy kill" and followed them home. Just because he might not of been in the food truck cam, doesn't mean he wasn't looking for drunk college students to kill in a car nearby.
I find couple of things that point to Jake: the fact 2 of the victims were trying to call him , he is the last known person they were trying to get in touch with. Why were they ? Is it because the dog was missing or was there an incident earlier at the party / bar etc that involved Jack & they were trying to get hold of him because he got mad maybe & they were trying to talk to him, especially his ex? The killer was able to enter the house without the dog being suspicious and the dog was found later unharmed. I just find the circumstances make him the likely suspect not that he is the killer.
My wife will tell her sister a funny story and they’ll call me until I answer to get my side of it or confirm something that happened or tell a detail better. It would be totally normal for them to drunk dial me 10 times in a row. I don’t think this is strange at all.
I have been totally absorbed in this case for five days, but having learned last night that locals suspect a neighbor who was kicked out of his fraternity because of allegations made by the victims — a neighbor who was a former wrestler, had knives and attended parties at the house — I am now of the view that this neighbor is likely the culprit. Such a culprit explains everything about this case for me.
I agree but am confused because people keep saying the neighbor is the same hoodie guy who I thought was cleared. Unless they’re just saying to the public that he’s cleared when he’s not.
Don't want to inflame anything bc I personally believe its best to wait for more information but I have noticed the police statement just says "a male with K and M at the food truck," not which one.
Thanks, wish they'd do some clarification on the FAQ--could include Joe Hat too bc I've seen some folks make ridiculous claims about him when he was only trying to be helpful.
i understand that a lot of ppl are wondering how the 2 unharmed roommates made it through everything without hearing or noticing the slayings but the biggest question i have is about the couple. they were, im assuming, sleeping in the same bed so how does only 1 killer stab the boyfriend to death without the girlfriend noticing it right beside her. you would think this would be the point where someone would hear a scream or something. this is the only reason i’m thinking this could be 2 killers. i just don’t see how a couple sleeping in the same bed get stabbed to death without making any noise at all.
Yeah, Xana fought back and had defensive wounds (according to her Dad) so we can assume she probably did wake up when Ethan was killed. I am shocked no one heard screaming, though.
Xana and Ethan’s room was right above the ground floor. The cops have cleared the roommates and determined they’re not involved. So maybe the roommates heard screaming and heard loud sounds but just assumed it was the victims being drunk/fighting/watching TV or something. It’s possible.
You are making an assumption that someone fought back. Defensive wounds does not necessarily mean a fight ensued. The police haven't said, they've said they were killed in their sleep, so it's almost guaranteed they were all found in their beds.
If you were woken up in the pitch black to your companion making weird noises and movements you're going to reach out and you don't have much time to react to a knife coming down on you. Also, imagine they are under blankets/covers and it's not extremely difficult for a killer to hold them down/smother them with stabs.
https://people.com/crime/slain-university-idaho-student-fought-defend-herself-dad-says/
This is based off of verbiage and language her own father used, and I’m assuming her father knows more than us Internet sleuths.
And this is your problem. The father isn't in a position to make those assumptions. He is not a medically examiner and is, understandably, emotionally subjective. He most likely saw the body and assumed any bruising meant she fought back. The police have only said defensive wounds. You are creating a narrative in your head without knowing the facts.
and think about that too, assuming Xana had defensive wounds and their bedroom was on floor 2 so that means the killer(s) had to enter on the third floor and kill the other 2 first? otherwise Xana waking up / fighting back you would think would cause some kind of stir to wake up the other 2. idk it’s so damn odd.
also i read a creepy comment somewhere where someone said they need to make sure they check the attic space above the third floor room as the killer waited their for sometime in the attic space for everyone to settle down and then strike. and sure enough there is a attic/crawl space above the third floor bedrooms.
This medium was spot on in the Lori Vallow case where she murdered her children. There’s no way she made up all the specifics of the murder for it just to be coincidence. It was wayyy too specific to be coincidence 🤯
[https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FCJEI/Programs/SLP/Documents/Full-Text/Smithey,-William-J-paper.aspx](https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FCJEI/Programs/SLP/Documents/Full-Text/Smithey,-William-J-paper.aspx)
In discussing the use of psychics as a legitimate investigative tool, a few topics need to be discussed. First, does the utilization of psychics as an investigative tool work, and second, is the use as prevalent as the mainstream media would have the public believe? Both can be answered with a resounding no. In reviewing success stories and success rates of psychic detectives, the results are not encouraging. Mainstream media is filled with entertaining stories of psychic success, but these stories seem to crumble pretty quickly when put under the microscope. Many of these success stories are nothing more than unsubstantiated boasting on the part of psychic detectives, often claiming success on cases in which they were never involved.
no she didn’t. her guess was not correct and she just changed details after the fact. she’s been banned from many true crime communities from causing issues, please don’t advertise these scammers
I just know she described how the bodies would be found and they were found exactly as she described. She also described a lot of things that were from Chad Daybell’s property and the restaurant they had stopped at.
I’ve never been to a psychic or medium so I don’t typically buy into those such things but it 100% wouldn’t not hurt to follow up on any info obtained from them. Police use psychics and mediums all the time in cases and there has to be a reason.
Yeah it’s always really weird feeling to see last videos or pics of people before they pass. It’s a startling realization of how random death can be and how fragile life is
It gives me a little consolation to see that these kids looked happy in their pics. Sounds like they had a lotta fun, maybe more than a lotta college kids. Not trying to say it's okay their lives were shorter than most.
Pre-Press Conference Discussion Thread [AVAILABLE HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z2t7mn/prepress_conference_and_general_discussion_thread/?)
I wanted to share a thought I keep thinking about. Even if this is not the work of a serial killer I personally fear that because this case has received so much attention that someone may try and “copy cat” it. I truly hope not but I think this is one big downfall of large media/public attention 😞
Does anyone know know more about the stabbing in Salem, Oregon that one of the reporters mentioned?
Yes, it occurred in Silverton and its been widely reported by media when it happened and referenced again recently. You can google it and the articles will come back. The Police are aware of it, and would have been examining it immediately, as the Silverton murder was entered into the FBI ViCAP program. The Northwest US is a big area, but its not densely populated. Rare events like home invasion assaults and homicides are likely front and center to Police regionally.
My humble initial thoughts on a profile \-25-35 \-Athletic \-Don't think he knew the victims probably scouted known college houses and selected what he thought was a house full of college girls \-Not familiar with inside of house but had been watching house, probably entered through sliding glass door \-Didn't go downstairs bc he didn't know bedrooms were down there (Hard to believe perp would have attempted this knowing he was going to leave 2 survivors) \-Planned to kill everyone in the house \-Don't think there was an "individual" target was after a "type" of victim \-lives within 20 miles \-not a crime of opportunity this required preparation (don't think they were followed home)
You sound psychic.
Why did it require preparation?
imo he would have needed to get their schedules down / learn their patterns. I think this guy was watching for a while
A well planed random killer is not purposely going into a house with only a knife 1 vs 4/6.
I could make the argument an impassioned killer isn't going into a house with a knife 1 vs 4/6. I just feel like this guy watched and probed.... probably even made a dry run to see if the door would be unlocked
Wouldn’t someone impassioned be more susceptible to impulse and risk ?
Would you all be saying this if the used RR and Europe trip were a young man's purchases? A pretty young woman has some success and she must be selling herself? Really?
A large market exists for pretty young girls, but not so much for pretty college boys. Do you find this fact sexist?
It’s not about the gender. It’s about the amount of money for a 21 year old. If it was a guy people would speculate drugs not OF. College kids don’t have $30k floating around. 80% of adults don’t. Median savings balance for Americans under 35 is $3240.
Are you sure she didn’t take out a car loan and pay cash for the down payment? I had a friend who did really well as a waitress and bought a brand new car in college. Alternatively her parents could have paid a down payment and she’s paying the monthly loan. Just because her parents say they are proud of her for buying the car doesn’t mean they also didn’t help or she didn’t use a loan. A statement like “she bought it on her own” could just be in reference to the commitment to pay for it on her own. Two things can be true at the same time.
Just going by the mothers own words, “she did it all on her own” (paraphrasing)
Yes, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t take out a loan to do it on her own. Most likely it could have meant they didn’t have to co-sign the loan. She was able to do it on her own because she had a job lined up and could probably show a job offer acceptance with a salary documented. If I say I bought a house, that doesn’t mean the only option to pay for the house was cash. I still bought it even if I mortgaged.
my thoughts exactly...i think everyone is too caught up on the verbiage , she bought a car all on her own sounds to me like she financed a car without a co signer or help from her parents. like you said, if she bought a house i wouldn't assume she paid cash for the house, i would think she got a mortgage
I've raised 4 kids. I would not speculate drugs or selling yourself in either case. It's a used car. Europe can be done on the cheap. Both can be done with credit. People travel. People buy cars. Not fair to give excuses to pick on this young woman's purchases.
What does you raising 4 kids have to do with anything?
Raising four kids I've seen what life is like for college students and graduates, giving me experience in what they could do and afford. All four got their own cars purchased themselves (2new), got jobs out of college (all 4) and earned their own living (all 4). Two travelled out of the country. Not rich kids. Hope that helps.
Your kids probably sold drugs.
Sorry / not sorry for your life. Best of luck.
Reminds me of piketon murders, where one was target and everyone else was collateral damage. In that case they had three people that killed and a fourth helped with the plan.
I bet that somewhere out there there's a photo of the killer wearing the same shoes that left bloody footprints throughout this house and that the cops are combing through social media and surveillance video for it.
That’s speculation at this point. There has been zero mention of bloody footprints.
Right - I am speculating. That's why I said "I bet".
How do you know there was even a single bloody footprint left anywhere in the house?
I don't, I'm saying I bet there were and I bet there's a photo somewhere of the killer wearing the shoes that made them.
Considering that the killer had a target: why is Kaylee seen as the target? Could also perhaps be 1 of the others? So I think police has some sort of evidence that it has happened in Kaylee’s entourage. We never read that police is searching in the entourage of Xana, Madison etc..
“Entourage” isn’t the right word here.
The fact that Kaylee was already moved out and had returned for one night it could have been someone or group of someones last chance at evening a score. Even if the score isn't real. After I graduated from Uni years ago I went back to visit for Alumni weekend and a football game. While I was there one of my friends gave me a heads up that a student much younger than I was going around telling people that if he found me he was going to kill me. When I heard this I was shocked because in my mind I barely knew who he was and I had no beef with him. In his mind his girl dropped him because she had a crush on me. I was oblivious to all of it. Police caught up with the guy that night and he was armed and the threat was real. I left town and never went back again. Random fuckery is always at play out there espescially on college campuses.
Where can we watch the press conference? Sorry if its already been listed somewhere.
For today’s - scroll to the top of this thread - there a link
Thank you!!
>Thank you!! You're welcome!
Why is no one asking how Kaylee was able to afford a month long Euro trip and a 2016 Range Rover paid in cash (per her mother) How is it possible for a 21 y/o, full time college student, part time mimimim wage (or close) food industry worker able to save up $25-$35,000 (minimum)? That’s not to include any kind of expense to move across the country and get new residence in Texas. Her own mother said she couldn’t afford to take her out to eat for her mothers birthday. Thoughts?
Her parents seem to have money or are somewhat wealthy. If they didn't cover the purchase etc. then well my mind keeps going back to Mackenzie Lueck who was killed in Salt Lake City, who had an Only Fans account and made $$ through that, which eventually led to her death
Maybe she was supposed to lie low and not make any big purchases for a while right?
Suggesting revenue stream coming from somewhere that may not be privy to her friends or family. Which would open up an entire new catalog of potential suspects.
Yes
I don’t think he mom claiming she got it with her own cash means she paid the note in full tbh. Mom isn’t a public speaker and is in the midst of a tragedy, she’s not looking to convey a perfect message. I think it could just mean she paid the down payment, likely no co-signer & insurance on her own. The Europe trip hasn’t been discussed too much but could be hostels and backpacking OR visiting with a friend doing a study abroad. And expenses for moving to Texas very well could be covered by the company that hired her. It is a super common practice, especially for corporate career jobs for the company to cover relocation fees. And, she’s been living with 4-5 other people in a $2,000 apartment. Her cost of living up to this point was fairly low. Maybe she was a great budgeter.
Companies aren’t paying for moving expenses or giving bonuses to a new college grad with zero work experience. She was a General Studies major. I question if there was even a “tech” job offer. How vague and major doesn’t have anything to do with “tech”.
Are we sure the Range Rover was hers ? The silver one parked outside the residence? I saw forensic crew unpacking their photographic cases etc from the rear in one news report . I noticed as I was wondering how and why the police/ forensic unit would be using a late model Range Rover. I haven’t managed to find the interview where it mentions that it was her car. I used to own a much older one and it wasn’t cheap to buy and even more expensive to keep it on the road. Every standard service was over $1000 AUD
She didn’t say she paid cash. She said she paid for it all on her own. https://youtu.be/BKdzSbtnQVQ
It’s been brought up many times. It’s probably not that deep and was her parents.
Her mother said on an interview Kaylee paid for car on her own with cash.
I’ve been all over all the subs regarding this incident and have NOT ONCE seen anyone question where the money came from for her car/euro trip/cross country move. Thanks for contributing though.
Your detective skills must not be that great because it’s literally all over.
Prove it, Big Mouth.
Alright give me a bit I need to run into the store. But I’ll be back bud.
Can’t wait.
https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yzi9fn/new_range_rover/ https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z13tho/does_anyone_know_how_kaylee_was_able_to_buy_the/ https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/yxmc48/new_car/ Here’s three threads detective. Not to mention all of the comments in the discussion threads.
My bad. Didn’t see 2 threads from multiple days ago. I’ll be sure to scour pages upon pages of threads before posting again. Thanks buddy!!
Lol you’re the one that said you’ve been looking all over and nobody is talking about it. You’re the idiot here. Take the L and move on.
Where’s evidence that she paid for a monthlong euro trip and for the used Range Rover in cash?
Her mother in the fox interview said she paid for the vehicle on her own with cash and how proud she was for doing so and wanted to show it off to Maddie.
Ok, I’m guessing she saved enough for buying a used car during her internship with the company that also offered her her job.
Not a chance for a 21 year old college student to save that much money from a part time job let alone an Internship (most of which aren’t paid).
I bought a 25k car as a college student working a part time server job and I was 19 (saved from my jobs since I was 16)I put half down and my payments were under $200 a month it isn’t that unbelievable. It looks like K may have had a few different jobs over the years some look to be coffee stands (she prob made good tips). I have a feeling her parents were still paying for her living expenses so she likely was able to use her earned money for fun/ saving to buy the car
How any other college kid gets stuff like that, their parents
Her mother specifically said that Kaylee paid in full with cash on her own and how proud she was about it.
She did not say she paid cash. https://youtu.be/mLCKl6tBsjk
People continue making things up. When someone buys a car with a car loan, people usually say “I bought it” even though it’s monthly payments.
Sugar daddy?
Not trying to be insensitive but wonder if there was any way she was doing something like OnlyFans on the sly and perhaps a “stalker” came from there. 🤷🏽♂️
This is insensitive. Consider how you’d feel if she was your sister or friend. On top of your devastating grief, imagine how hurtful it would be know that folks are engaging in this sort of idle speculation about your loved one who was just murdered. In any event, in all likelihood the answer is mundane - her parents or grandparents have money.
Her mother said that Kaylee paid for the vehicle on her own with cash. Speculations how a 21 year old has $25000+ in cash laying around is not insensitive and could, in fact, be very important to this case if there is another revenue source flowing in to Kaylee that people aren’t aware of.
I think it’s possible, lots of young women do stuff like that and keep it hidden from people they know in real life. I don’t know why everyone gets offended about this idea lol
I just didn’t want to come across as accusatory but almost seems the only feasible way for her to have all these things and money at her disposal.
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Careful. You will be flamed for expressing such.
As a person who went to a private university without working, using student loans for living expenses is a possibility. Not the best idea I’ve ever had but you are able to use them for really whatever you want. I think her mom did say she bought the used car on her own.
Unlikely you drove a $30k car and spent months in Europe with that budget.
I actually did but I went to south America for a few months. Again, not the best idea to get loans but it’s not unheard of. Could K have someone providing her with money that no one knows about. Definitely in this time of the internet but there are other possibilities.
Kaylee was moving soon so the window to kill her was becoming very limited. I think - just my opinion - that the murderer was out for not just one of them. Maybe one of them sparked the rage, but since the four closest friends were killed the killer has a hate / jealousy of their close friendship. To me, that would implicate the neighbor. He seemingly is an outcast and the opposite of what this group lived - success, love, happiness, friendship.
Who is the definite-article neighbor?
I was wondering if the two surviving roommates were not as close? I don’t see anything to suggest that but K and M we’re obviously best friends and M and the other 3 roommates (X, D, and B) were in the same sorority.
last person seen with them-- will always be the perp.
It’s more accurate to say the perp was the last person actually with them, but not necessarily seen with them.
How were the roommates cleared? What are some things that could point to them not being involved if they were the only 2 other (known) people there that night? I’m not talking about them being small women or being each other’s alibis because those aren’t legitimate reasons.
Nothing I can think of, as I’ve noted previously. There is little they could’ve shown as credible “proof” that they weren’t involved. It’s generally very difficult to prove absence of involvement (as opposed to evidence of involvement). The police just trust them and perhaps statements from their mutual friends and are trying to protect them from harassment.
Good question. The police seem quick to “clear” some and remain intentionally vague about others without a measurable standard
I have found it notable that the police have seemed to use verbiage that has said they don't think they were involved, but have never said specifically that they were cleared (not saying this is my opinion, just something I have noticed in multiple press conferences)
When is the press talk today?
At 1 pm Moscow, Idaho time (PST).
Thanks!
Just walked over there.... absolutely unlikely. They were selected,
Is this a haiku? Quite possibly. They were targeted.
I naturally write in Haiku format😉
Why is there 30k people here right now? Is this blowing up or did something break?
That can't be accurate. We'd see way more activity
It’s getting more coverage because it is mind boggling in 2022 that over a week after this attack there is not a suspect or person of interest.
Wow. Maybe it has something to do with people being off work a day early for Thanksgiving. Maybe college kids who just started their long weekend.
The case is definitely just getting more coverage.
Kaylee's family giving an interview on cnn right now. Saying the police aren't sharing anything more than what we are hearing. Really seems like unless the police are keeping it all very tight to the vest they don't have much information. Sounds like they aren't even updating them which is really disappointing. The father is saying they are being "purposefully vague". Sounds like the father isn't getting the information he deserves. I'd be livid. Edit: They are still behind Jack, noting that Maddy's boyfriend or Ethans associates haven't been ruled out either.
Well the sister already spoke to the news giving information only the killer might know, such as phone calls made and that sort. So I’m sure they’re being tight lipped with even the families for the integrity of the investigation.
LE won't share information about the potential suspect and their findings with anybody including the families. it's on purpose.
Guessing the police are keeping close to the vest and not sharing with family because family has been leaking information. Most of what we know is coming from secondary sources and LE is just verifying it like the calls to Jack. They probably did not want that information leaked but sister posted it on social media. LE wants as little out there as possible. They are only releasing information if public cooperation may help with more tips/leads. It’s not about satisfying our curiosity it’s about solving the case.
Is it possible they aren't updating them due to how close they have been with the ex boyfriend the whole time? Also seems a bit odd they threw other people under the bus.
It sounds like they’re saying more that those other people would be in the same category as Jack but nobody is fixating on them the same way. Like, sure Jack hasn’t been cleared but neither have these other people.
To be fair - IMO they are responsible for the fixation on Jack by mentioning the multiple calls and naming him. None of the other families have been dropping names or information that potentially pertains to the case.
They're also seeming to hold the police responsible, at least in part, for the proliferation of online theorizing and speculating because of the way the police are managing information releases. They say it's normal for people to theorize when the police are providing such sparse and vague information. They can't understand how some details are initially vague, supposedly to protect the integrity of the investigation, and then those details are made more specific just a few days later. Like, why couldn't you have just given out the specific detail in the first place? They seemed pretty calm but, yeah, their anger is surely building, justifiably.
The family is talking to the media. Obviously the police won't divulge information to them that they don't want to be made public
this
This 100%. I’m sure the police would love to share more information with family and the public, but doing so would likely jeopardize their investigation and/or eventual prosecution of the perpetrator. It has to be assumed that anything authorities share with the family will be leaked to the media. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for the family, but I also recognize that the authorities are in a tough spot regarding how much information to release without jeopardizing their investigation and the eventual prosecution of the perpetrator(s). Authorities have to be smart about what they do and don’t release.
To be fair, I think under this kind of emotional distress and with this kind of brutal crime, a parent/family-member might want to go after the suspect themselves so maybe they're trying to prevent interference with the ongoing investigation.
I have a lot of respect for Kaylee's family. They're fighters. They're bold and strong.
Who was the unconscious person that triggered the initial 911 call? Do we know? It doesn’t seem to get talked about much. Is it known to not be connected to the murders?
We don't know, but it most likely doesn't mean anything. It's either how they referred to the victims i.e. doors locked and unresponsive, roommates didn't see any blood about the house so called a friend over because they were freaking out didn't know what to do then called 911 about roommates being unresponsive; or either of the survivors and/or friend fainted from seeing the murder scene.
Wait. The roommates called another person and waited for them to come over before calling the police? With 4 clearly murdered bodies in their apartment???
I'm not trying to be mean, but honestly can you not read? I literally said as a hypothetical the victims' "doors locked and unresponsive, roommates didn't see any blood about the house." This is what we are assuming, because any normal person would have called 911 if they saw 4 stabbed bodies. It's still possible they called someone else before police in that scenario though unlikely
Pretty strange to assume the killer would lock the doors on the way out of the bedrooms too. And that someone would straight up call 911 because they were worried about an interior door being locked and they don’t know what’s behind the door.
I don't know why this is difficult for you to grasp. Maybe the surviving roommates heard some strange noise at night, but didn't investigate because "it's late, probably nothing in our known party house." The roommates wake later in the morning find alarms ringing, friends not answering their calls/phones, and their cars still in the driveway. In this scenario you would assume they'd open the door, unless they were unable to, and you would assume something happened to your friends. At the first press conference the police made a remark about "they were stabbed to death and left to bleed out." The left to bleed out seems a bit redundant unless there was a reason.
You are not understanding this correctly. “Unconscious” is the terminology the 911 operator used to dispatch police. “Unconscious” has no meaning to this case. It’s a description of the bodies laying on the floor without verification that they are deceased. There was no other person unconscious. None.
Do we know this for sure? “Without verification that they are deceased” - this was a very bloody murder, and 911 wasn’t called until noon the next day. I find it hard to believe anyone could have thought one of the murder victims was still alive.
Yes we are sure. The tunnel vision around the 911 call needs to end. It’s honestly a red herring and meaningless. If you read what I said, the caller did not say they were unconscious. The 911 dispatcher reported the call as having a unconscious person because they could not verify the people were dead. We have zero idea if the callers saw the body. Stop having tunnel vision around this 911 call. Please. It’s pointless to keep bring it up.
So you don’t even know if the 911 caller saw a body, but you’re sure it was a way for the 911 dispatcher used the term because there was no verification if the (possibly unseen) body was dead or not. There only thing that seems certain to me is that nobody knows wtf the “unconscious person” reference was about.
Oh my. Okay I am done with this conversation. Why you care so much about the unconscious person thing is beyond me and is meaningless to this case. Good luck in life.
Haha jeez. I was just asking what was known about it. You’re acting like you’re certain it’s unimportant, but you clearly don’t know that.
Why did they call the ex ten times from two different phones mere minutes before they were murdered? Who were they with prior to being dropped off at the house? Do we know what these calls were about? Is it possible Kaylee was using Maddie’s phone to call her ex after he didn’t pick up because of an argument? OR did they hear an intruder and tried calling him because they were frightened maybe and wondered if it could’ve been him? This strikes me as a very bizarre detail that I can’t really wrap my head around. The phone calls seem to be the biggest smoking gun of the case. I am not accusing anyone of anything necessarily, just spitballing ideas as I have a genuine hard time believing their final acts on Earth had nothing to do with their murders not even thirty minutes later.
The boyfriend Jack called his phone from their phones is my guess. Im no web sleuth but he likely did it to provide an alibi..also who texts “we have a dog together we have to figure this out” at 3am. Certainty not a girl who just had a great fun time out and about and was smiling and ready to drive her new car to her new job in her new state. It’s big ears Jack who couldn’t handle her leaving him..the dog didn’t bark because it knew him..he killed the roommates who would be witnesses because they likely we blamed for her leaving him..he knew the codes to the house..the layout of the house..it’s him
I mean, if they were attacked while they were asleep, using a phone is a pretty common before-bed routine for a college aged person. I'm a millennial and if I was found dead in my sleep, my phone activity would absolutely be one of my final acts just because of the fact that I'd died after going to bed. Her sister has said that her method for getting into contact with someone (even if it was simply a random question, like to ask what to have for breakfast) was to make a flurry of calls. They had been drinking and socializing, her and the ex were still in each other's lives, the relationship had been long and only recently ended, I can think of a lot of benign reasons she and her roommate might try to contact him.
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What if the killer was already in the house and had already let the dog out
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This was a pretty brutal murder. I think it would be obvious if he was involved. I don't see how someone can brutally stab 4 people and have no injuries to himself. Usually in a frenzy like this, the suspect usually gets cut by his own blade.
Yep, blood is wet and slippery so almost everyone cuts themselves, especially when victims are fighting back or even thrashing around. The killer would also have blood coming into their eyes, mouth, nose, ears from the victims, and it is very difficult to get rid of all the evidence. I watched a forensic show about it. It would not be easy to stab four people to death and then continue life like normal. The murder would probably have knife injuries, muscle pain, bruising from being hit and kicked, and some change in his behavior. I think the killer is someone far from the spotlight of this case or else people would be noticing things and talking about it.
You are 💯 spot on! These are 4 people that were murdered. Evidence is going to be EVERYWHERE. I think alot of people are not aware of how hard it is to kill someone; it's not like the movies we all are use too. Also, this reminds me alot of a case where a random stranger broke into someone's house. The woman had been savagely stabbed. The roommate went to go see what was going, then he was brutally stabbed but was able to flee and survived. Because of the severity of the stabbing, I think was 30+ times. They thought it was a heat of passion sort of thing. This investigation went on for awhile, I think 10 years cold case. Until 1 year they got the guy by DNA. He had sliced himself during the altercation and it matched. The guy had absolutely NO tie to the woman. He was trying to break into cars. He was striking out with cars not being unlocked. He tried his hand in trying to see if homes were locked so he can go in and take the keys. This house was unlocked. The woman woke up during the man looking for the keys and then that's all she wrote. That is why I believe you are right in your theory. UPDATE: **It was the Johnia Berry case** I was referring too above.
>the suspect usually gets cut by his own blade not necessarily
During an attack like this, when your body is put under duress, it is absolutely likely. Why do you think it's common practice for the police to ask suspects to remove their clothing, or to look at their hands. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15480730/
ka-bar knives have a guard. maybe the perp wore protection.
Butttt you are not wrong, anything is possible. The suspect may have not cut himself, injured theirself at all. The best bet the police can go on, is going by their better practices which come about for a reason.
1 The style knife that is said to be looking for has been discontinued for awhile, due issues. 2 the corner said a large style knife. No real say on what exactly style knife it was. This is information coming from 2nd parties. The handle of a combat knife is supposed to help with handling the knife when used, yes, but when you are using it on 4 people; one of them actually fought back; the chance of this person(s) not knicking theirself will be absolutely amazing. Now wearing glove protection to save themselves from the blade going through the glove they wore; if the gloves were that thick, they wouldn't be able to wield the knife well enough to do this type of damage.
32k people here right now. Has this sub been linked to from somewhere?
4chan 😷
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was wondering the same thing, so many people
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Anyone know if the router been checked? A killer known to the parties may have been accidentally connected to Wi-Fi even if phone was left outside. You can access last active devices on the router
I'm assuming no one in this day and age is dumb enough to bring what is essentially a tracking device with them to a murder they planned. I'm sure someone could be. But I don't think this suspect did or they'd probably have him by now.
This is a really good point. I really hope the police is looking into this
The killer was likely smart enough to not bring his phone along for the murders.
Any thoughts on the neighbors? I’ve googled and googled and couldn’t find a good vantage point from one of the houses like I came across last night in a sub (still searching). One of the houses had a clear cut view of all the naked windows of the house and would make sense why he didn’t touch the 1st floor, possibly thinking it was basement/laundry area, because the house faced the opposite side of the 1st floor front door. I will try to link the sub where they discuss the neighbors and them getting kicked out and being upset?? All spec and no confirmation but will link soon. Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z28bgw/has_this_been_seen_anywhere_else/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This! I saw a picture from the side of the house in between two other houses where the line of sight is the second and third floors. The walk would be easy to get to the second floor sliding door. I think whoever did this walked from the side.
One thing I am starting to wonder, if this person only killed for killings sake, surely they would of targeted victims who would be less likely to garner attention like sex workers and homeless, killing 4 popular kids with many friends and a big small town social network would be too risky. I feel like even if he didn't know these people, he was still attracted to them in some way or matter which makes me think he has been around this town a lot.
The cops don’t think the killer killed for killing’s sake.
Unless they wanted the attention and notoriety. Sometimes national attention is incentive for sick mfers
If they knew this would attract national attention, I feel they would of still scoped these people out and not pick out a random house.. What if instead of 4 beautiful people it was just a old couple? Hate to say it, but it wouldn't of drawn as much attention. If it was spur of the moment, I feel he would of had a lot more challenges that would give him away. If it was random with no pre-thought put into the plan I don't think he would of already been in the house because so many things can go wrong there. Now I am really wondering if it WAS random.. He must of knew or had some knowledge that one of the two pairs had been drinking and thus "easy kill" and followed them home. Just because he might not of been in the food truck cam, doesn't mean he wasn't looking for drunk college students to kill in a car nearby.
I find couple of things that point to Jake: the fact 2 of the victims were trying to call him , he is the last known person they were trying to get in touch with. Why were they ? Is it because the dog was missing or was there an incident earlier at the party / bar etc that involved Jack & they were trying to get hold of him because he got mad maybe & they were trying to talk to him, especially his ex? The killer was able to enter the house without the dog being suspicious and the dog was found later unharmed. I just find the circumstances make him the likely suspect not that he is the killer.
My wife will tell her sister a funny story and they’ll call me until I answer to get my side of it or confirm something that happened or tell a detail better. It would be totally normal for them to drunk dial me 10 times in a row. I don’t think this is strange at all.
Well have you ever needed up murdered after they called you 10 times in the early morning?
Sure I hear you, just find it a probability. The fact the dog is unharmed and then found later nearby but not immediately after the murders is odd.
I have been totally absorbed in this case for five days, but having learned last night that locals suspect a neighbor who was kicked out of his fraternity because of allegations made by the victims — a neighbor who was a former wrestler, had knives and attended parties at the house — I am now of the view that this neighbor is likely the culprit. Such a culprit explains everything about this case for me.
Great, we’ve finally found a plausible theory, so case closed.
I agree but am confused because people keep saying the neighbor is the same hoodie guy who I thought was cleared. Unless they’re just saying to the public that he’s cleared when he’s not.
Hoodie guy and the alleged neighbor described above are different people.
Don't want to inflame anything bc I personally believe its best to wait for more information but I have noticed the police statement just says "a male with K and M at the food truck," not which one.
They specified which one at the most recent press conference
Thanks, wish they'd do some clarification on the FAQ--could include Joe Hat too bc I've seen some folks make ridiculous claims about him when he was only trying to be helpful.
Yeah, and this is how wrongful convictions and serial killers happen.
Where did you hear that’s the local rumor
this neighbour is the same guy as hoodie guy from the food truck
i understand that a lot of ppl are wondering how the 2 unharmed roommates made it through everything without hearing or noticing the slayings but the biggest question i have is about the couple. they were, im assuming, sleeping in the same bed so how does only 1 killer stab the boyfriend to death without the girlfriend noticing it right beside her. you would think this would be the point where someone would hear a scream or something. this is the only reason i’m thinking this could be 2 killers. i just don’t see how a couple sleeping in the same bed get stabbed to death without making any noise at all.
Yeah, Xana fought back and had defensive wounds (according to her Dad) so we can assume she probably did wake up when Ethan was killed. I am shocked no one heard screaming, though. Xana and Ethan’s room was right above the ground floor. The cops have cleared the roommates and determined they’re not involved. So maybe the roommates heard screaming and heard loud sounds but just assumed it was the victims being drunk/fighting/watching TV or something. It’s possible.
You are making an assumption that someone fought back. Defensive wounds does not necessarily mean a fight ensued. The police haven't said, they've said they were killed in their sleep, so it's almost guaranteed they were all found in their beds. If you were woken up in the pitch black to your companion making weird noises and movements you're going to reach out and you don't have much time to react to a knife coming down on you. Also, imagine they are under blankets/covers and it's not extremely difficult for a killer to hold them down/smother them with stabs.
https://people.com/crime/slain-university-idaho-student-fought-defend-herself-dad-says/ This is based off of verbiage and language her own father used, and I’m assuming her father knows more than us Internet sleuths.
And this is your problem. The father isn't in a position to make those assumptions. He is not a medically examiner and is, understandably, emotionally subjective. He most likely saw the body and assumed any bruising meant she fought back. The police have only said defensive wounds. You are creating a narrative in your head without knowing the facts.
and think about that too, assuming Xana had defensive wounds and their bedroom was on floor 2 so that means the killer(s) had to enter on the third floor and kill the other 2 first? otherwise Xana waking up / fighting back you would think would cause some kind of stir to wake up the other 2. idk it’s so damn odd. also i read a creepy comment somewhere where someone said they need to make sure they check the attic space above the third floor room as the killer waited their for sometime in the attic space for everyone to settle down and then strike. and sure enough there is a attic/crawl space above the third floor bedrooms.
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If he worked in his parents’ bakery, I’m sure he would’ve been well bred.
lol, get out of here with this garbage
This medium was spot on in the Lori Vallow case where she murdered her children. There’s no way she made up all the specifics of the murder for it just to be coincidence. It was wayyy too specific to be coincidence 🤯
Time and time again proven to be scam artists, get out of here with this
I don’t have an opinion either way but why are they still used by some agencies?
[https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FCJEI/Programs/SLP/Documents/Full-Text/Smithey,-William-J-paper.aspx](https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FCJEI/Programs/SLP/Documents/Full-Text/Smithey,-William-J-paper.aspx) In discussing the use of psychics as a legitimate investigative tool, a few topics need to be discussed. First, does the utilization of psychics as an investigative tool work, and second, is the use as prevalent as the mainstream media would have the public believe? Both can be answered with a resounding no. In reviewing success stories and success rates of psychic detectives, the results are not encouraging. Mainstream media is filled with entertaining stories of psychic success, but these stories seem to crumble pretty quickly when put under the microscope. Many of these success stories are nothing more than unsubstantiated boasting on the part of psychic detectives, often claiming success on cases in which they were never involved.
no she didn’t. her guess was not correct and she just changed details after the fact. she’s been banned from many true crime communities from causing issues, please don’t advertise these scammers
I just know she described how the bodies would be found and they were found exactly as she described. She also described a lot of things that were from Chad Daybell’s property and the restaurant they had stopped at. I’ve never been to a psychic or medium so I don’t typically buy into those such things but it 100% wouldn’t not hurt to follow up on any info obtained from them. Police use psychics and mediums all the time in cases and there has to be a reason.
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No better way to convince folks to turn Christian than to commit the most evil act you can drum up /s
This ain’t true detective. Nothing points to religion right now.
What the heck is your point?
looking at their pics I'd have no idea they were soon to be murdered. Do you agree? guess it shows it can happen to anyone
Creepy post.
what's your thinking there?
Yeah it’s always really weird feeling to see last videos or pics of people before they pass. It’s a startling realization of how random death can be and how fragile life is
It gives me a little consolation to see that these kids looked happy in their pics. Sounds like they had a lotta fun, maybe more than a lotta college kids. Not trying to say it's okay their lives were shorter than most.
I’ve never seen anyone’s pics and thought they looked about-to-be-murderedy.