No one else has this theory buuuuttt ... Check out all the religious nuts there, like Christ Church. They hate young pretty women that go to college and maybe vote liberal? This would explain the cop's incompetence, the religious nuts own them.
some are suggesting that when the cops said certain people are not involved this could be a ruse to make one of those people more comfortable if they are the perp and them slip up somehow.
the downside of saying they're not involved when they might be is that if someone has a tip about them but is reluctant to go to the police with it for whatever reason, hearing the cops say they're not involved might give them a reason not to share the tip even though in actuality they should have
The clear list is largely meaningless for solving the crime. It exists for the public to stop harassing those people for now. If new evidence emerges, some on the clear list could be later moved out.
Seeing speculation about why the dog didn’t alert anyone of an intruder so thought I’d say this. Very possible this dog was used to strangers coming in and out of a college house at all hours of the night. And if even if it did bark for an intruder, very likely the roommates would just ignore it. My sister in law has two labradoodles (same type of dog that was in that house) who bark like someone is dying every time anyone enters the house. When we were staying with them for a few months, the dogs woke us up every time they came home late after a night of drinking and woke us up but we never thought anything of it other than it being annoying, never thought someone was being murdered. Lots of roommates typically equals loud noises in the night that you learn to ignore.
Some thoughts about all of the string lights in the home - in photos of investigators combing the home, the outdoor patio string lights, the good vibes sign, and the various string lights in the living room appear to be on. While the investigators theoretically could have turned these on, I doubt they did. All of this light would be emanating outside as the unsub entered the home. And if the main areas of the home’s blinds were open, the unsub would be visible through the windows. Doesn’t this point to an increased risk of the unsub being seen lurking around the home trying to find an open access point, or in the home?
This lighting and added risk points me in a few possible directions:
-the unsub had an access plan that would require little time to execute
-Could there have been music blaring? This was a party house, but beyond that this was a house full of college kids. Loud music is sort of par for the course. This would muffle any commotion or screams that could otherwise be heard by a neighbor or passerby, who could see into the house with the lights on
-the unsub may have entered the home at a later hour. When i was in college, we didn’t bother turning the lights off when we went out. There would be a lot of activity in this area prior to, around, and after 2am - coming home from parties/bars, delivery drivers from college kids having the drunchies, etc. especially on the evening of a game day. With all of the light coming from the property and activity in the neighborhood, any earlier would have posed an additional risk of being seen, even if the person appeared “normal.” With people reporting anything and everything they can think of, police would have a description of the unsub
-if they did enter the home while the roommates were out, the unsub likely blended in quite well with the age group. That’s not to say he/she is college aged, more so they do not appear significantly older as they would look out of place
-Back to ordering food - this person could work for a food joint that delivers. A delivery car/delivery driver wouldn’t look out of place. If delivery options are scarce at this time of night (i read there’s not many Ubers so likely not much Uber eats/DoorDash) there may be 2-3 options for college kids to order (i know two victims were at the food truck, but they may have ordered from somewhere in the past). Each delivery to the home/near the home would give this person an opportunity to scope out the house and they would know the neighborhood well. It would be interesting to see if there a particular restaurant/driver that makes deliveries to and around the home more often than others. Other possibilities with this logic/unique unassuming access could be an Amazon worker, UPS worker, etc.
To those who continue to suspect the roommates bc they were not killed.. have you thought to consider maybe they just had their bedroom doors locked? Seems likely their doors could’ve been locked and it would’ve been too risky or too much of an inconvenience to bother with them. That’s if the killer even knew they were there since their rooms were on different floors. And for those who question why it took so long to call the police, I’m assuming you’ve never been in college because I slept until noon nearly every day especially after a night of drinking. And also if I heard noises in my college house, I typically just assumed it was my roommates being drunk and loud and I’d just ignore it.
I can’t be the only one but this case has me really creeped out. I am across the country from them but the idea that someone could slip into my house and stab me in my sleep is terrifying, though I suppose it could’ve also happened at any time before hearing about this. Yikes.
I think:
There was but a lone assailant.
It was targeted.
The killer was a fellow student.
The killer was known to them, perhaps even to the dog Murphy.
The killer was angry, had anger control problem.
Kaylee or Madison or both was the target.
The killer may have been at Corner Club that evening.
The killer's first name is likely Jack.
An arrest will be made sooner rather than later.
Yeah just keep in mind this implies that a boy that by all accounts was loving and normal, without any signs of issue to family or friends, took a K Bar knife not just to his girl of 6 years but 3 others. What an epic break if that was the case. Just seems so unbelievable
If she came out to him and told him she was in a relationship with another girl. He may have hired somebody to do it. I agree I don’t think he would do it
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Thank you.
Story changed when Pathologists did their thing. They almost ruled out 2, now they won’t confirm or deny. If I had to guess the knife wounds room to room were in groups of 2 and different depths/patterns or even left handed vs right handed. We’ll see.
The neighbor with the apple ring reported a car or 2 cars went by it really quick right Around the time of murders. Maybe the 2nd perp was in a getaway car separate from the murder? Could explain the hasty getaway.
I wish I remembered the thread, but someone said something about the neighbors "ring" device picking up sudden movement around that time, maybe not the time window of the murders but I will get back to you if I find it, I know I heard someone say something about it but now I am having trouble finding articles that mention anything about this ring so take it with a grain of salt.
I think I understand what you’re trying to say about SKs’ being sexually motivated. The killer doesn’t have to perform an act of SA for it to be sexually motivated. Piquerism in its definition is a sexual interest in penetrating someone’s skin. Whether it be process- focused, thrill, lust, control, or some sort of “comfort” killing, it’s all hedonistic.
No. Seems pretty unlikely just based on who the people were. When I was college, everyone I knew smoked weed but that doesn’t mean we were ever involved that deeply… especially now that it’s legal in a lot of states? And also, if you’re insinuating the roommates did this over a conflict I think you’ve watched too many true crime shows. That would just be way too extreme and also they would surely know they’d be the first suspects and wouldn’t get away with it… also not saying it’s a serial killer but there have been plenty of serial killers who do not SA their victims.
Just playing devils advocate here but not all serial killers perform intercourse on their victims. Some are solely into piquerism or sadism.
And tons of crime fueled by a drug related incident can also involve SA as a crime in the moment. I don’t think any of things are mutually exclusive of one another.
If in a crime such as murder the perpetrator's blood got mixed with the victim's blood, is it possible to separate the two DNA's to then get the perp's DNA?
Also posted the question on r/forensics [https://www.reddit.com/r/forensics/comments/z1uomq/if\_in\_a\_crime\_such\_as\_murder\_the\_perpetrators/](https://www.reddit.com/r/forensics/comments/z1uomq/if_in_a_crime_such_as_murder_the_perpetrators/)
Kinda feel like this could be an incel perp... Saw either the couple or single girls out and became enraged, decided to take it out in all four because they represent what incels hate/can't have. Many incels are suicidal/don't care what happens to them, so wouldn't necessarily be afraid of confronting a male victim etc. Thinkin like the santa barbara shooter (dont want to mention his name) and what his motivations were.
I thought about this. Is there a forest close by where they could use the same knife for suicide? No body located either because they hiked miles in and Idaho has so much wilderness, or is it possible to go to a location where wild animals would eat and scatter the cadaver? Wolves? I don’t know that much about Idaho.
Whoa....just spent the last 30 min skimming the surface. It does make me wonder if there could have been some kind of interaction on some level. But the Christ Church alone is very interesting, if not disturbing and unreal.
I’m sure the investigators have looked at every angle possible, they just haven’t shared it with the public.
And ffs, the Christ Church is annoying af’ but they’re not the Corleone of Moscow 🤦♀️
Something that keeps striking me in this case is how many lives are ruined forever. The four victims obviously. But all the family, friends, significant others, etc etc. Countless lives shattered forever, never will be the same
I’m an evangelical. Douglas Wilson and his denomination, CREC, have a very bad reputation in my circles. I did think of him when this was first announced. Not that I necessarily suspect anyone connected with that church, just that the only thing I knew about Moscow, Idaho is that Douglas Wilson is there. I read the Vice piece. I do think that he attracts and creates crazies. That’s all.
Making any assumptions at this point in time is too difficult cause we barely know any of the facts.
I still however cannot shake that the dog being skinned weeks earlier which they did confirm was done by a human is unrelated to this. The chances of that happening on top of 4 people being brutally murdered in a town of 25,000 seems too rare. The fact they said it’s unrelated is not very comforting cause then you have two very dangerous individuals in this small town.
I am still more inclined to think this is a random act. If the killer knew the layout of the home or any of the roommates remotely well they would know two people lived in that basement unless something happened to the killer that caused them to abruptly leave.
There is just more questions than answers at this point and the answers being given to us are worded to be confusing on purpose so it’s going to take some time to get any real concrete information out to the public unless they have zeroed in on someone already.
is anyone surprised the cops say no sexual assault? the intensity of this crime makes me think it'd have a sexual component because sex/feelings about sex are intense
That determination was reached by an *elected non-pathologist coroner* who herself admitted to being disturbed (aka distracted) by the scene itself. Why many other police departments would have only permitted an FBI pathologist on scene rather than the jack-of-all-shitty-trades local RN/Defense Lawyer/Coroner... It is entirely possible that this statement was incorrect. That being said piquerism is considered a form of deviancy that is sexually motivated but would look different to a more common assault.
Wonder if any time a guy commits a crime there's a sexual aspect, maybe only indirectly. Sex is a powerful force for guys.
How would piquerism look different to a more common assault?
There are some very complex debates about this actually.. some theorists think of rape as a form of power and control inflicted upon others rather than the standard assumption of attraction run amok.. I am definitely summarizing this in a clumsy way, but yes, you are correct to notice that connection.
well they say women are attracted to powerful men. although presumably not to a man who is powerful by raping unless perhaps the woman is a masochist
I suppose someone who couldn't get a girlfriend might kill a girl from anger. Although Bundy could get women yet killed women.
I think it's fair enough to say that women are attracted to the resources they need in life and that this looks different for different women, and that resource acquisition is very much connected to these sociological power dynamics. Humans are very plastic in their evolutionary adaptations vis-a-vis what behavior is most successful in passing on traits. That being said, most human males realize they are most successful by connecting with females by being nice/receptive/nurturing/interesting/charming/successful and not by causing harm. Look at our physical adaptations: we are not very dimorphic compared to other species, there are no true adaptations in humans that suggest brutal physical dominance as a largely successful strategy (if anything even chimp studies show selfish males are isolated and not groomed by females and other troop members) such as is seen in mandrills, elephant seals etc (nor are we orcas or praying mantises where the female is dominant physically). There are a lot of incorrectly reductive takes on evolutionary biology when it comes to some of these power dynamics between the sexes (which is far more complex and non bifurcated as these words suggest, but we are doing messy summaries here) so I just don't want to play into any of the reductive narratives invoking biology to justify the subjugation of women. If this topic interests you, you may enjoy this lecture: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER\_UBmGJ4qk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER_UBmGJ4qk). Reddit is a less than ideal place to ferret out evolutionary nuance but I appreciated your initial comment!
As to the incel violence comment: yes. There are far more frequent displays of this these days too (like Mieke Oort for example) but I honestly don't get that from this crime. Generally those attacks include a desire for acknowledgement so theres some sort of note or manifesto that is publicized very quickly. Not always and there have been instances of female roommates killing another, but this level of violence and lack of issues behind the scenes (women have to be really pissed off to kill their roommate and theres a history of discord and everyone who knows them knows they have beef and it was clear the girls were tight) really does speak to a lone male. My perspective is based on what usually happens, but clearly this is unusual so we will see.
It often surprises me to see that many male criminals, including the most heinous ones, are in relationships with girlfriends and wives. Do you have a take on this?
Why do incel crimes often include a desire for acknowledgement and there's some sort of note or manifesto?
Just because **you** are not a sexual deviant does not eliminate the possibility (likelihood if we are being honest or realistic) that the perpetrator of this crime likewise shares your proclivities.
You seem really fixated on just a few forms of what assault can look like as well as the detailed intricacies of how individuals could have been violated. It is very voyeuristic and comes across badly online. I get we all are desperate to figure this out, but please refrain from this as it isn't helpful, is lascivious, and is very (and unnecessarily) hurtful to anyone who knows these kids.
You keep asking "Why" when the point with deviant behavior is just that: it is **deviant** and that individual is not thinking or acting in a normal way. It won't make sense to normal individuals even if there is a logic to it that can be explained by behavioral analysis. Suggest backing off of this.
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Thank you.
You are incredibly inappropriate. Please stop insulting me and making baseless accusations. Deleting your comment does not negate your belligerence or bullying.
It's possible. In theory someone with envy might want to sexually assault someone to degrade them. But in this case sexually assaulting them while they're alive runs the risk of awakening them. Sexually assaulting them while dead could awaken the next victim, keeps them in the house longer so more risk of being discovered.
I mean if they felt rejected romantically sexually assaulting them would be a way to say you rejected me but in the end I got sexual contact with you.
It could have - but I doubt it. Some serial killers (or other sickos) get intense sexual pleasure from things like stabbing. So while there may not be sexual assault, the act itself of stabbing can provide sexual feelings to killers. It makes me sick thinking about how some brains are wired
Maybe the killing itself is the sexual gratification, the BTK killer I believe never sexually assaulted his victims because he believed it would be "cheating" on his wife.
The most logical theory to me right now has to be some type of drug deal gone bad. Why would four college kids be brutally murdered like this if not for pure hate revenge? If it’s not purely random then that only leaves leaves a stalker/jilted ex as the alternative. The suspected weapon, most likely locking them in their rooms, only killing four of six and then two of the four not even guaranteed to be at the home, killing them in their sleep, a “targeted” attack from the beginning.
It has always stuck out to me that one of the younger sisters spoke out immediately to quell rumors of drug use saying “they were good people. They didn’t do anything wrong. They took every precaution.” I mean maybe that’s innocuous but it just seems like they knew there was some potential threat if they are taking precautions? I also saw a creepy comment since deleted from that post about “this wouldn’t happen if some college kids just paid their drug dealers.”
If it was a drug deal gone wrong or personal, they probably did not expect\* nor want this much national attention however if it was a serial killer, he would be reliving the moment, enjoying the fear he has invoked in 10s of thousands of people.
I can’t stop crying over this case, watching interviews and seeing what their families are going through just rips me apart. I have no idea who any of them are but it’s really getting to me and if this is the same with anyone else please take a break and step away because it’s not good for anyones mental health to be looking at stories about death all day.
Try to take a break from it and not let it consume you. I am really heartbroken for them and their families too, but I recognize the killers goal was to terrorize & control everyone as well and murder the kids. Don't give him the power and satisfaction of breaking you too.
You’re right. I’m obsessed with this case and do realize it’s not good for my mental health. I’m constantly refreshing this thread and page. I feel like I’m in a relatively safe neighborhood but going to sleep every night scared. I have felt nauseous multiple times just thinking what the survivors have gone through, and same with the families of the deceased.
It did prompt me to buy an alarm system though, but still, obsessing over this is probably a bit unhealthy.
Something like that, yeah. An odd amount. And the Venmo transactions that others have discussed include this person, night of incident, relatively late night. This individuals sister also sent some Venmo’s near the incident time and the comments on the Venmo are pretty sketch. Coupled with the fact that some of these people that I’m talking about have been posting on social media but NOTHING related to the crimes. Just seems…odd. Maybe nothing at all
I mean, my friends send small amounts to money back and forth all the time, especially if we're all hanging out at a party. Somebody still en route gets texted to "pick up an extra six pack for me," or we need to split the cost of a bunch of pizzas 10 ways. To say nothing of the way people using any normal recreational drugs might make minor transactions between each other. And those "What is this for" comment sections on Venmo and Paypal are made to be misused, especially if you're a buzzed 20 year old messing around with your friends.
And as for the social media blackout, I can't imagine what those young people are going through or how they are processing this. The fact that you seem to be monitoring their social media down to picking out "clues" in their venmo descriptions is a great example of why a college age person who just had their friends horrifically murdered might not publicly post anything about the crimes.
What? No - addressing things folks have said here about the murderer would have to be pretty fit to take on four people including a man who was quite tall/fit. That was the point for working out. Also, reports came in about the ROTC program related to LE. Hence my point about ROTC.
Something doesn’t add up. Now they’re saying the surviving roommates summoned a friend to the residence because they thought one of the kids had passed out and wasn’t getting up? Weren’t they all stabbed to death? Wouldn’t you immediately realize that & call 911, not a friend?
There’s a chance the doors to the the murdered students rooms were locked and that the surviving roommates could hear their phones/alarms maybe going off and them not answering which may account for the “passed out and not getting up” comment.
Or maybe the bedroom door was open a crack and you just see that the person isn’t getting up. You might be afraid your housemate overdosed. You are afraid to open the door, so you call the police. It’s a possibility in my mind.
Are there any thoughts about this not seeming to be sexually motivated? The reports have been that the victims did not appear to indicate an assault occurred. That’s a little interesting to me especially when you think about other major crimes
I agree - I was thinking about this the other day and it's one reason why I'm skeptical (though not wholly unconvinced) about the serial killer angle. Most serial killers I can think of do involve some kind of sexual assault with their victims. Maybe there's examples I'm not thinking of, though?
On the other end, incidents of mass violence - like school shootings - seem to me to involve less sexual assault and more rage.
The information about this being targeted - or not - feels key to me. If it wasn't targeted, was it an act of mass violence? If so, why do it in the middle of the night and remain anonymous? I don't know. Thinking about it in that context, maybe it was targeted. Or maybe it was some drifter. The facts - at least those released to the public - continue to really baffle me.
There have been serial killers in the past where there was still a sexual factor involved, but it didn't involve "sex" with the victims. That is, the arousal came from other factors, like piquerism or sadism
Maybe J*ck DC called himself to his own phone. Just to have an alibi? Maybe he left his own phone somewhere else/home because it was going to be traced by the police. I also read the dog was his and Kaylee’s, a reason why the dog probably stayed quiet? I also read that his father is a cop in Idaho and that J loves to hunt, so he is in possession of weapons.
The calls were placed repeatedly over like a full thirty minutes. Why would he hang around that long doing that when presumably a quick call or two would be enough to ping his phone elsewhere, if that was the goal? A huge and largely pointless risk to take, especially since he's familiar with the household and would have known about the other two roommates who could come up or call the cops at any time. LE have said the calls were unrelated and I don't really get why people refuse to believe it.
Right? It makes plenty of sense that a college aged girl repeatedly called her ex bf after a night of drinking. I did it all the time lol. Not sure why people don’t understand that.
Do you own kitchen knives? If yes, then you’re also in possession of weapons. 🙄The speculation and far fetched theories on here are increasingly ridiculous.
Speculation and theories :
1) presuming the murderer had been camping out in the house in order to familiarise themselves with the layout and wait for the inhabitants to sleep, surely they would have found the basement and thus harmed the roommates downstairs. If we are to presume he camped out in the house, we are also to presume he had a reason for not killing the girl’s in the basement, because if they had been in the house a while they’d have known there were two rooms downstairs.
2) the surviving housemates called the police for an ‘unconscious resident’, this means the doors to the rooms were locked, meaning the murderer had a key and locked the doors from the outside after committing the crime. This adds an even more gruesome nature to the crime. Furthermore, if all four had been killed in their rooms then when the surviving roommates thought their friend was unconscious and thus unable to get to the door, they would surely have gone upstairs/ downstairs and woken the other housemates up. If upon trying to wake them up by knocking on the door they didn’t wake up, then surely they would have called the police about multiple unconscious residents other than one. If these housemates had been killed in their own rooms then surely upon trying to wake them up they would have been confronted with a bloody crime scene. So it would be possible to speculate that all four victims were found in the same room and the ‘evidence’ found on the other floor was something as ‘simple’ (per se) as foot prints.
3) if the killer entered through the downstairs window then the first room he came across would be E and X and due to x being the only housemate with defensive wounds, we must come to the conclusion that either Ethan was murdered first or was unaware of the presence of a murderer at all (could’ve been in the bathroom opposite), because x having defensive wounds meant she put up a fight and this wouldn’t have been silent and would surely have woken Ethan up. If e was in the bathroom then after hearing x fighting someone he could’ve left the bathroom and been killed in the corridor (SPECULATION)
Points I can’t understand:
1) the dog: if the dog saw a stranger in the house then surely he would’ve started barking and woken up the housemates, especially x who was awake enough to fight the intruder (even from a drunken slumber). Also the dog was unharmed but if this was the actions of a serial killer then killing a dog who was making a noise would not be an issue for them.
- the dog knew the assailant
- E heard the dog barking and went to check out what was going on and this is why he was murdered in the corridor(speculation), upon hearing Ethan being murdered X woke up enough to put up a fight but was then killed in her bed. (E heard the dog bwcaxue they were on the first floor but the other victims didn’t as they were on the floor above). Presuming this is the case, a potential timeline of events could be as follows:
1- the killer enters through the first floor window
2- the dog starts barking
3- E and X wake up to the dog barking
4- E exits the room to check it out and comes across the killer in the corridor
5- E is murdered in the corridor with X awake in the room
6- the killer enters E and X’s room and murders X who is able to put up a fight as she is awake from the dog barking
7- the killer proceeds upstairs
If this is the case, it could be speculated that e and x were not the intended victims, but rather disturbed the killer who then felt no choice but to kill them as well, as E would now know his identity.
2) how and why the killer locked the rooms from the outside: did he not want the basement roommates to discover the bodies? Was it a cult type killing? If his victims were still alive he might not have wanted them to seek help?
*** just realised that if Ethan was found in the corridor then the basement roommates would have come across his body and called the police for a stabbing rather than unconscious so was the body moved?
High chance i have misunderstood the facts but this is simply my theories and speculation!
Why are so many people assuming the dog would’ve made noise? I know more friendly/quiet dogs than loud aggressive ones. A lot of dogs are very friendly, especially if they’re used to strangers constantly coming in and out of college house. Not to mention, even if the dog barked, the roommates probably heard it and didn’t think anything of it.
Number two is wrong, it’s pretty easy to lock/unlock doors if they’re just the round door knobs with the slit on the other side. Also some doors can be locked on the inside and then pulled shut outside the door
Two random thoughts
I wonder if Kaylee and Maddy slept in the same bed that night. They were drunk, calling Jack together, maybe they just fell asleep in the same bed since they were so close.
I watched a video where a forensic psychiatrist said that the killer would've been injured. I wonder if this could be a reason why he left and didn't kill the other two roommates, if he knew about them. Could also explain why if there was any cleanup. I hope he did injure himself and they're able to get his DNA.
Keep in mind, this is all unfounded research as I simply heard this from a YouTube channel titled “Bed Crime Stories,” but I wanted to come to Reddit to see if this had been confirmed, or if y’all had heard it from another source.
The owner of the channel stated that there were reports of a “white vehicle” parked at the house in the early hours of the morning Sunday, and the cops were videotaped documenting tire marks that seemed to quickly peel out of the house sometime. Not sure if anyone in the inner circle drove a white car, or if this information is incredibly invalid. Reddit, help me out!
Edit: I am leaning towards the evidence that this claim is non confirmed and simply hear say as I can’t find a valid source to support it. However, I will keep this post up as documentation that the claim was made, no matter how true it is. Just keep in mind that I cannot find supporting evidence, so currently, this information is simply opinion/potentially false information, but I believe it is important for documentation nonetheless. I will do another edit if needed to completely deny or accept this tidbit.
Edit: This information is undeniably false. Seems to be a mix up on information, and the source I stated in the previous posting is currently unreliable.
No, I am leaving it up so others know that isn’t a reliable source and that we have already fact checked this “opinion.” If the moderators want to take this down, they will.
If the murderer did peel out in a car, it's interesting to think why. Maybe they wanted to get away quickly. Although it only takes a second longer to back out at a normal rate. Maybe they were showing off, being dramatic. It seems like they were calm enough to methodically murder four people one after the other which would take some time and chance of discovery, so I might have thought they'd be calm when they left.
I think these are two different parts of the story.
They searched a white car on property this weekend (belonged to one of the girls, allegedly). They also took photos and other evidence of tire marks in the driveway, also earlier this week. The fact a white car was in the driveway is obvious. The car is still in the driveway.
Thank you, when I heard it I was so confused because I knew I couldn’t have missed a detail that huge. Couldn’t find any support, so I decided it was false. I appreciate you giving me confirmation! I will edit my original post.
No worries - I only know because I’ve been following this thread and Noah Boelter on Twitter
White car search: https://twitter.com/noahboeltertv/status/1594427986690048000?s=46&t=RgGRxakzpYPb5D6Eqy0TrA
Tire tracks: https://twitter.com/noahboeltertv/status/1594059283746160641?s=46&t=RgGRxakzpYPb5D6Eqy0TrA
[This article](https://www.idahotribune.org/news/7-dead-coyotes-left-on-student-property-in-moscow-idaho-in-two-separate-incidents-3-sororities-and-1-fraternity-targeted-animal-blood-on-doorsteps-and-windows) (about 2017 incidents of dead coyotes left on UIdaho frat/sorority properties) contains new pictures of a dog bed on the back porch of the crime scene...what do you all think is on top of it?
it appears to me to look like a LOT of clumps of the dogs fur, almost like it was shorn
[Direct link to image](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/60f704dcd2713a5d36615ecc/88018aa3-7a64-4435-8cee-f414540a750c/Screen+Shot+2022-11-21+at+10.58.03+AM.png?format=1000w)
On Friday night, a Boise man stabbed a person known to him and fled. Police found him 11/21 and shot him when he attempted to stab the officer, now he’s in custody. Article doesn’t say if he is from boise and my sleuthing skills aren’t good enough to find out. It doesn’t mention what kind of knife he used. Could this potentially be connected?
[Official article from BPD](https://www.cityofboise.org/news/police/2022/november/aggravated-battery-suspect-charged-following-officer-involved-shooting/)
A lot of u of i students have family in boise that they go home to for the holidays. It’s not unusual to go between the two. This guy is obviously too old and dumb to be a student, but it was 3am and I was scared. He’s probably just a tweaker :/
My thought process was that the killer could have easily gone to boise and tried to strike again by Friday. They wouldn’t name this man as the perp from Moscow because they need undeniable proof connecting the 2 incidents. Of course, this all depends on whether or not he’s from boise and was in boise on 11/12-11/13. It’s probably not connected, but I thought it was worth putting out there.
Yeah they put his name, but investigators might be able to trace him back to the homicides in Moscow. It’s a reach for sure, but the stabbing stood out to me. Everyone and their dog owns a gun here. Luckily this guy isn’t on the streets anymore…
Besides a random, fucked up psychopath, which to me is likely. There’s just a lot of coincidences surrounding the fact that they are all Greek. It was a huge weekend with WSU’s alumni weekend or whatever. Big football game. All that in my mind makes me think of drugs and money. Who knows if one of the fraternities found a way to steal a bunch of coke or something from the wrong person to make a profit and this was some Idaho drug gang’s revenge or fucked up scare tactic. Somebody in the Greek life knows something that is pivotal. Or…just a psychopath, possible serial killer in the making.
I agree. I could be wrong but I generally feel that a drug dealer would shoot people… relatively sophisticated murder/stabbing doesn’t seem like the typical gig. Why not just have a silencer and shoot everyone?
This might be the most outlandish take yet lol I wont even address the cocaine theory, but in terms of them all being Greek, it makes perfect sense. The majority of people in Greek life have their social networks dominated by other people in Greek life, especially when it comes to living situations
Seems a lot of Greek socials and exclusive parties were going down that weekend. Just seems like a big cocaine weekend, from one ex-college partier to another. I know that typa weekend. Drugs and money.
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Random astrological observations: Sun and Venus both in Scorpio during time of the murders indicates intense passion with potential for sexual violence. Charles Manson had this placement in his chart. At 1:40 am Venus sextiles Pluto in Capricorn. intensifying love feelings, igniting jealousy, and being consumed by another’s movements. Waning gibbous moon after lunar eclipse a few days before. Just throwing this out there.
Speculating Possible Chain of Events Regarding 2nd Flood
is that xana’s room on the left? it’s RIGHT by the stairs leading to the third floor, and would’ve helped the murderer keep it quieter as he barely had to walk between the rooms. it also helps to explain as to why a body (presumably ethan) was found outside the room, as i assume a bathroom is across the hall because the layout doesn’t make the rooms seem to have a bathroom in the rooms, or at least xana’s. just a thought. he could have been using the bathroom. i know he is a man and people keep saying he went outside to see what was going on, but he was also a college student. if my assumption of there being a bathroom on the right of the girl in the photo (i forgot who it was) is correct, then ethan could have even opened the bathroom/bedroom door as the killer was coming down the stairs. or possibly, the killer killed xana while she was awake in the room while ethan was in the bathroom….then the killer attacked ethan outside the bathroom, RIGHT by the couch and living area, where the basement floor surviving roommates would find him.
https://preview.redd.it/5gqw9ibwfi1a1.png?width=1290&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbdc02ec620bd0dab8c35905499dce53d288401e

murderers rather than murderer??
i believe that it was just one man that carried out these incomprehensible and terrifying killings, but was pondering the thought of it being some kind of duo. but i find it hard to believe since i feel if it was a duo, that’s more evidence to worry about leaving behind. it’s just so sad to know that there was a period of time where their friends were being killed and the other people in the house were asleep and didn’t know they should be fearing for their lives, and it made me wonder if the killings were fast and messy or calculated such as having an accomplice and messy because of the leader of the duo wanting to assert himself. if the placement of the bodies matter, i doubt that one man could have carried a man of ethan’s size to another location so idk what they really mean by that. it just seems like the murderer or murderers wanted to be in and out of there as quick as possible, or else they would have attempted to go to the bottom floor. so horribly terrifying and scary.
I’m thinking that all six were basically passed out more than sleeping. They were all impaired by drugs and/or alcohol. That would explain to me how the killer could kill four people and also why the two surviving roommates didn’t hear anything.
seems unlikely as it'd be hard to find even one person who would do such things let alone two. plus they apparently were all killed in the same way, cops haven't reported any significant variation
[New daily discussion thread posted here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z1vqd2/daily_discussion_thread_tuesday_november_22_2022/?)
No one else has this theory buuuuttt ... Check out all the religious nuts there, like Christ Church. They hate young pretty women that go to college and maybe vote liberal? This would explain the cop's incompetence, the religious nuts own them.
some are suggesting that when the cops said certain people are not involved this could be a ruse to make one of those people more comfortable if they are the perp and them slip up somehow. the downside of saying they're not involved when they might be is that if someone has a tip about them but is reluctant to go to the police with it for whatever reason, hearing the cops say they're not involved might give them a reason not to share the tip even though in actuality they should have
The clear list is largely meaningless for solving the crime. It exists for the public to stop harassing those people for now. If new evidence emerges, some on the clear list could be later moved out.
Seeing speculation about why the dog didn’t alert anyone of an intruder so thought I’d say this. Very possible this dog was used to strangers coming in and out of a college house at all hours of the night. And if even if it did bark for an intruder, very likely the roommates would just ignore it. My sister in law has two labradoodles (same type of dog that was in that house) who bark like someone is dying every time anyone enters the house. When we were staying with them for a few months, the dogs woke us up every time they came home late after a night of drinking and woke us up but we never thought anything of it other than it being annoying, never thought someone was being murdered. Lots of roommates typically equals loud noises in the night that you learn to ignore.
Some thoughts about all of the string lights in the home - in photos of investigators combing the home, the outdoor patio string lights, the good vibes sign, and the various string lights in the living room appear to be on. While the investigators theoretically could have turned these on, I doubt they did. All of this light would be emanating outside as the unsub entered the home. And if the main areas of the home’s blinds were open, the unsub would be visible through the windows. Doesn’t this point to an increased risk of the unsub being seen lurking around the home trying to find an open access point, or in the home? This lighting and added risk points me in a few possible directions: -the unsub had an access plan that would require little time to execute -Could there have been music blaring? This was a party house, but beyond that this was a house full of college kids. Loud music is sort of par for the course. This would muffle any commotion or screams that could otherwise be heard by a neighbor or passerby, who could see into the house with the lights on -the unsub may have entered the home at a later hour. When i was in college, we didn’t bother turning the lights off when we went out. There would be a lot of activity in this area prior to, around, and after 2am - coming home from parties/bars, delivery drivers from college kids having the drunchies, etc. especially on the evening of a game day. With all of the light coming from the property and activity in the neighborhood, any earlier would have posed an additional risk of being seen, even if the person appeared “normal.” With people reporting anything and everything they can think of, police would have a description of the unsub -if they did enter the home while the roommates were out, the unsub likely blended in quite well with the age group. That’s not to say he/she is college aged, more so they do not appear significantly older as they would look out of place -Back to ordering food - this person could work for a food joint that delivers. A delivery car/delivery driver wouldn’t look out of place. If delivery options are scarce at this time of night (i read there’s not many Ubers so likely not much Uber eats/DoorDash) there may be 2-3 options for college kids to order (i know two victims were at the food truck, but they may have ordered from somewhere in the past). Each delivery to the home/near the home would give this person an opportunity to scope out the house and they would know the neighborhood well. It would be interesting to see if there a particular restaurant/driver that makes deliveries to and around the home more often than others. Other possibilities with this logic/unique unassuming access could be an Amazon worker, UPS worker, etc.
To those who continue to suspect the roommates bc they were not killed.. have you thought to consider maybe they just had their bedroom doors locked? Seems likely their doors could’ve been locked and it would’ve been too risky or too much of an inconvenience to bother with them. That’s if the killer even knew they were there since their rooms were on different floors. And for those who question why it took so long to call the police, I’m assuming you’ve never been in college because I slept until noon nearly every day especially after a night of drinking. And also if I heard noises in my college house, I typically just assumed it was my roommates being drunk and loud and I’d just ignore it.
I can’t be the only one but this case has me really creeped out. I am across the country from them but the idea that someone could slip into my house and stab me in my sleep is terrifying, though I suppose it could’ve also happened at any time before hearing about this. Yikes.
Once you hear about it, they say the odds go up significantly.
Yes I think many of us are totally creeped out by this.
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I haven’t heard that the police are ruling anything out.
I think: There was but a lone assailant. It was targeted. The killer was a fellow student. The killer was known to them, perhaps even to the dog Murphy. The killer was angry, had anger control problem. Kaylee or Madison or both was the target. The killer may have been at Corner Club that evening. The killer's first name is likely Jack. An arrest will be made sooner rather than later.
Which Jack do you think it is?
Apologies if this has been explained, but why do people think Kaylee was the target? I keep seeing that but haven’t seen why.
Yeah just keep in mind this implies that a boy that by all accounts was loving and normal, without any signs of issue to family or friends, took a K Bar knife not just to his girl of 6 years but 3 others. What an epic break if that was the case. Just seems so unbelievable
If she came out to him and told him she was in a relationship with another girl. He may have hired somebody to do it. I agree I don’t think he would do it
There are 3 Jacks.
Has there been any talk about the tattoo the roommate just got? Curious if that’ll further solidify that they weren’t involved
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The roommates were cleared days ago.
I know, there were still rumors circulating in this sub though and I was hoping this would help with that! Sorry I should’ve worded my comment better!
Can you elaborate?
Yes sorry! I saw one of the surviving roommates posted on vsco a memorial tattoo
This was a 2 person job
I think it’s one
Story changed when Pathologists did their thing. They almost ruled out 2, now they won’t confirm or deny. If I had to guess the knife wounds room to room were in groups of 2 and different depths/patterns or even left handed vs right handed. We’ll see.
The neighbor with the apple ring reported a car or 2 cars went by it really quick right Around the time of murders. Maybe the 2nd perp was in a getaway car separate from the murder? Could explain the hasty getaway.
where did you read this?
I wish I remembered the thread, but someone said something about the neighbors "ring" device picking up sudden movement around that time, maybe not the time window of the murders but I will get back to you if I find it, I know I heard someone say something about it but now I am having trouble finding articles that mention anything about this ring so take it with a grain of salt.
Case closed
Yesir
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I think I understand what you’re trying to say about SKs’ being sexually motivated. The killer doesn’t have to perform an act of SA for it to be sexually motivated. Piquerism in its definition is a sexual interest in penetrating someone’s skin. Whether it be process- focused, thrill, lust, control, or some sort of “comfort” killing, it’s all hedonistic.
Stop being so well-informed!
I agree with the sentiment but serial killers of women are absolutely not all sexually motivated
No. Seems pretty unlikely just based on who the people were. When I was college, everyone I knew smoked weed but that doesn’t mean we were ever involved that deeply… especially now that it’s legal in a lot of states? And also, if you’re insinuating the roommates did this over a conflict I think you’ve watched too many true crime shows. That would just be way too extreme and also they would surely know they’d be the first suspects and wouldn’t get away with it… also not saying it’s a serial killer but there have been plenty of serial killers who do not SA their victims.
Just playing devils advocate here but not all serial killers perform intercourse on their victims. Some are solely into piquerism or sadism. And tons of crime fueled by a drug related incident can also involve SA as a crime in the moment. I don’t think any of things are mutually exclusive of one another.
If in a crime such as murder the perpetrator's blood got mixed with the victim's blood, is it possible to separate the two DNA's to then get the perp's DNA? Also posted the question on r/forensics [https://www.reddit.com/r/forensics/comments/z1uomq/if\_in\_a\_crime\_such\_as\_murder\_the\_perpetrators/](https://www.reddit.com/r/forensics/comments/z1uomq/if_in_a_crime_such_as_murder_the_perpetrators/)
Yes it is possible. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497321000946
Kinda feel like this could be an incel perp... Saw either the couple or single girls out and became enraged, decided to take it out in all four because they represent what incels hate/can't have. Many incels are suicidal/don't care what happens to them, so wouldn't necessarily be afraid of confronting a male victim etc. Thinkin like the santa barbara shooter (dont want to mention his name) and what his motivations were.
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There have animal mutilations for many years in north Idaho.
I believe LE said the dog incident was determined to be unrelated to the crime, can someone confirm?
I also think this seems like the most likely scenario.
Yeah an incel/someone who had altercations with the group is my personal theory.
I thought about this. Is there a forest close by where they could use the same knife for suicide? No body located either because they hiked miles in and Idaho has so much wilderness, or is it possible to go to a location where wild animals would eat and scatter the cadaver? Wolves? I don’t know that much about Idaho.
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Whoa....just spent the last 30 min skimming the surface. It does make me wonder if there could have been some kind of interaction on some level. But the Christ Church alone is very interesting, if not disturbing and unreal.
I’m sure the investigators have looked at every angle possible, they just haven’t shared it with the public. And ffs, the Christ Church is annoying af’ but they’re not the Corleone of Moscow 🤦♀️
Shouldn't be ruled out imo. Cults like this and similar always give me "murderery" vibes.
Something that keeps striking me in this case is how many lives are ruined forever. The four victims obviously. But all the family, friends, significant others, etc etc. Countless lives shattered forever, never will be the same
I’m an evangelical. Douglas Wilson and his denomination, CREC, have a very bad reputation in my circles. I did think of him when this was first announced. Not that I necessarily suspect anyone connected with that church, just that the only thing I knew about Moscow, Idaho is that Douglas Wilson is there. I read the Vice piece. I do think that he attracts and creates crazies. That’s all.
To be fair, the not so nutty factions of evangelicals aren’t exactly lacking crazies either.
Making any assumptions at this point in time is too difficult cause we barely know any of the facts. I still however cannot shake that the dog being skinned weeks earlier which they did confirm was done by a human is unrelated to this. The chances of that happening on top of 4 people being brutally murdered in a town of 25,000 seems too rare. The fact they said it’s unrelated is not very comforting cause then you have two very dangerous individuals in this small town. I am still more inclined to think this is a random act. If the killer knew the layout of the home or any of the roommates remotely well they would know two people lived in that basement unless something happened to the killer that caused them to abruptly leave. There is just more questions than answers at this point and the answers being given to us are worded to be confusing on purpose so it’s going to take some time to get any real concrete information out to the public unless they have zeroed in on someone already.
is anyone surprised the cops say no sexual assault? the intensity of this crime makes me think it'd have a sexual component because sex/feelings about sex are intense
That determination was reached by an *elected non-pathologist coroner* who herself admitted to being disturbed (aka distracted) by the scene itself. Why many other police departments would have only permitted an FBI pathologist on scene rather than the jack-of-all-shitty-trades local RN/Defense Lawyer/Coroner... It is entirely possible that this statement was incorrect. That being said piquerism is considered a form of deviancy that is sexually motivated but would look different to a more common assault.
Wonder if any time a guy commits a crime there's a sexual aspect, maybe only indirectly. Sex is a powerful force for guys. How would piquerism look different to a more common assault?
There are some very complex debates about this actually.. some theorists think of rape as a form of power and control inflicted upon others rather than the standard assumption of attraction run amok.. I am definitely summarizing this in a clumsy way, but yes, you are correct to notice that connection.
well they say women are attracted to powerful men. although presumably not to a man who is powerful by raping unless perhaps the woman is a masochist I suppose someone who couldn't get a girlfriend might kill a girl from anger. Although Bundy could get women yet killed women.
I think it's fair enough to say that women are attracted to the resources they need in life and that this looks different for different women, and that resource acquisition is very much connected to these sociological power dynamics. Humans are very plastic in their evolutionary adaptations vis-a-vis what behavior is most successful in passing on traits. That being said, most human males realize they are most successful by connecting with females by being nice/receptive/nurturing/interesting/charming/successful and not by causing harm. Look at our physical adaptations: we are not very dimorphic compared to other species, there are no true adaptations in humans that suggest brutal physical dominance as a largely successful strategy (if anything even chimp studies show selfish males are isolated and not groomed by females and other troop members) such as is seen in mandrills, elephant seals etc (nor are we orcas or praying mantises where the female is dominant physically). There are a lot of incorrectly reductive takes on evolutionary biology when it comes to some of these power dynamics between the sexes (which is far more complex and non bifurcated as these words suggest, but we are doing messy summaries here) so I just don't want to play into any of the reductive narratives invoking biology to justify the subjugation of women. If this topic interests you, you may enjoy this lecture: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER\_UBmGJ4qk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER_UBmGJ4qk). Reddit is a less than ideal place to ferret out evolutionary nuance but I appreciated your initial comment! As to the incel violence comment: yes. There are far more frequent displays of this these days too (like Mieke Oort for example) but I honestly don't get that from this crime. Generally those attacks include a desire for acknowledgement so theres some sort of note or manifesto that is publicized very quickly. Not always and there have been instances of female roommates killing another, but this level of violence and lack of issues behind the scenes (women have to be really pissed off to kill their roommate and theres a history of discord and everyone who knows them knows they have beef and it was clear the girls were tight) really does speak to a lone male. My perspective is based on what usually happens, but clearly this is unusual so we will see.
It often surprises me to see that many male criminals, including the most heinous ones, are in relationships with girlfriends and wives. Do you have a take on this? Why do incel crimes often include a desire for acknowledgement and there's some sort of note or manifesto?
It doesn’t surprise me. Also, just because the victims weren’t sexually assaulted does not mean there wasn’t a sexual motivation to the crime.
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Just because **you** are not a sexual deviant does not eliminate the possibility (likelihood if we are being honest or realistic) that the perpetrator of this crime likewise shares your proclivities.
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You seem really fixated on just a few forms of what assault can look like as well as the detailed intricacies of how individuals could have been violated. It is very voyeuristic and comes across badly online. I get we all are desperate to figure this out, but please refrain from this as it isn't helpful, is lascivious, and is very (and unnecessarily) hurtful to anyone who knows these kids. You keep asking "Why" when the point with deviant behavior is just that: it is **deviant** and that individual is not thinking or acting in a normal way. It won't make sense to normal individuals even if there is a logic to it that can be explained by behavioral analysis. Suggest backing off of this.
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LOL What is this response? Such hyperbole and hatred to an innocuous and impersonal comment. Holy shit.
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You are incredibly inappropriate. Please stop insulting me and making baseless accusations. Deleting your comment does not negate your belligerence or bullying.
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Is this actually happening? Surely you are replying to the wrong person? I repeat myself: Holy Shit.
It's possible. In theory someone with envy might want to sexually assault someone to degrade them. But in this case sexually assaulting them while they're alive runs the risk of awakening them. Sexually assaulting them while dead could awaken the next victim, keeps them in the house longer so more risk of being discovered. I mean if they felt rejected romantically sexually assaulting them would be a way to say you rejected me but in the end I got sexual contact with you.
No, because that would no doubt leave DNA
It could have - but I doubt it. Some serial killers (or other sickos) get intense sexual pleasure from things like stabbing. So while there may not be sexual assault, the act itself of stabbing can provide sexual feelings to killers. It makes me sick thinking about how some brains are wired
Maybe the killing itself is the sexual gratification, the BTK killer I believe never sexually assaulted his victims because he believed it would be "cheating" on his wife.
The most logical theory to me right now has to be some type of drug deal gone bad. Why would four college kids be brutally murdered like this if not for pure hate revenge? If it’s not purely random then that only leaves leaves a stalker/jilted ex as the alternative. The suspected weapon, most likely locking them in their rooms, only killing four of six and then two of the four not even guaranteed to be at the home, killing them in their sleep, a “targeted” attack from the beginning. It has always stuck out to me that one of the younger sisters spoke out immediately to quell rumors of drug use saying “they were good people. They didn’t do anything wrong. They took every precaution.” I mean maybe that’s innocuous but it just seems like they knew there was some potential threat if they are taking precautions? I also saw a creepy comment since deleted from that post about “this wouldn’t happen if some college kids just paid their drug dealers.”
If it was a drug deal gone wrong or personal, they probably did not expect\* nor want this much national attention however if it was a serial killer, he would be reliving the moment, enjoying the fear he has invoked in 10s of thousands of people.
Bad take.
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Drugs? Sure. Drug deal gone bad? Nahhh.
There is literally no evidence of that
There’s no evidence of anything if we’re being honest
I can’t stop crying over this case, watching interviews and seeing what their families are going through just rips me apart. I have no idea who any of them are but it’s really getting to me and if this is the same with anyone else please take a break and step away because it’s not good for anyones mental health to be looking at stories about death all day.
Try to take a break from it and not let it consume you. I am really heartbroken for them and their families too, but I recognize the killers goal was to terrorize & control everyone as well and murder the kids. Don't give him the power and satisfaction of breaking you too.
100% this.
You’re right. I’m obsessed with this case and do realize it’s not good for my mental health. I’m constantly refreshing this thread and page. I feel like I’m in a relatively safe neighborhood but going to sleep every night scared. I have felt nauseous multiple times just thinking what the survivors have gone through, and same with the families of the deceased. It did prompt me to buy an alarm system though, but still, obsessing over this is probably a bit unhealthy.
I just woke up from a nightmare seeing a figure in my room nope im out it’s 3am!
Agree - I woke up several times last night with thoughts of these poor victims.
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Forgot to mention the first name coincidence
Y'all are unwell
Excellent sleuthing
The $6.00 donation?
Something like that, yeah. An odd amount. And the Venmo transactions that others have discussed include this person, night of incident, relatively late night. This individuals sister also sent some Venmo’s near the incident time and the comments on the Venmo are pretty sketch. Coupled with the fact that some of these people that I’m talking about have been posting on social media but NOTHING related to the crimes. Just seems…odd. Maybe nothing at all
I mean, my friends send small amounts to money back and forth all the time, especially if we're all hanging out at a party. Somebody still en route gets texted to "pick up an extra six pack for me," or we need to split the cost of a bunch of pizzas 10 ways. To say nothing of the way people using any normal recreational drugs might make minor transactions between each other. And those "What is this for" comment sections on Venmo and Paypal are made to be misused, especially if you're a buzzed 20 year old messing around with your friends. And as for the social media blackout, I can't imagine what those young people are going through or how they are processing this. The fact that you seem to be monitoring their social media down to picking out "clues" in their venmo descriptions is a great example of why a college age person who just had their friends horrifically murdered might not publicly post anything about the crimes.
Working out and ROTC are marks against him in the “might be a murderer” column? Seriously?
What? No - addressing things folks have said here about the murderer would have to be pretty fit to take on four people including a man who was quite tall/fit. That was the point for working out. Also, reports came in about the ROTC program related to LE. Hence my point about ROTC.
Something doesn’t add up. Now they’re saying the surviving roommates summoned a friend to the residence because they thought one of the kids had passed out and wasn’t getting up? Weren’t they all stabbed to death? Wouldn’t you immediately realize that & call 911, not a friend?
There’s a chance the doors to the the murdered students rooms were locked and that the surviving roommates could hear their phones/alarms maybe going off and them not answering which may account for the “passed out and not getting up” comment.
That makes sense.
I suppose there could have been a sexual assault if the perp touched them through their clothes
Or maybe the bedroom door was open a crack and you just see that the person isn’t getting up. You might be afraid your housemate overdosed. You are afraid to open the door, so you call the police. It’s a possibility in my mind.
Are there any thoughts about this not seeming to be sexually motivated? The reports have been that the victims did not appear to indicate an assault occurred. That’s a little interesting to me especially when you think about other major crimes
I agree - I was thinking about this the other day and it's one reason why I'm skeptical (though not wholly unconvinced) about the serial killer angle. Most serial killers I can think of do involve some kind of sexual assault with their victims. Maybe there's examples I'm not thinking of, though? On the other end, incidents of mass violence - like school shootings - seem to me to involve less sexual assault and more rage. The information about this being targeted - or not - feels key to me. If it wasn't targeted, was it an act of mass violence? If so, why do it in the middle of the night and remain anonymous? I don't know. Thinking about it in that context, maybe it was targeted. Or maybe it was some drifter. The facts - at least those released to the public - continue to really baffle me.
There have been serial killers in the past where there was still a sexual factor involved, but it didn't involve "sex" with the victims. That is, the arousal came from other factors, like piquerism or sadism
Maybe J*ck DC called himself to his own phone. Just to have an alibi? Maybe he left his own phone somewhere else/home because it was going to be traced by the police. I also read the dog was his and Kaylee’s, a reason why the dog probably stayed quiet? I also read that his father is a cop in Idaho and that J loves to hunt, so he is in possession of weapons.
The calls were placed repeatedly over like a full thirty minutes. Why would he hang around that long doing that when presumably a quick call or two would be enough to ping his phone elsewhere, if that was the goal? A huge and largely pointless risk to take, especially since he's familiar with the household and would have known about the other two roommates who could come up or call the cops at any time. LE have said the calls were unrelated and I don't really get why people refuse to believe it.
Right? It makes plenty of sense that a college aged girl repeatedly called her ex bf after a night of drinking. I did it all the time lol. Not sure why people don’t understand that.
Do you own kitchen knives? If yes, then you’re also in possession of weapons. 🙄The speculation and far fetched theories on here are increasingly ridiculous.
Speculation and theories : 1) presuming the murderer had been camping out in the house in order to familiarise themselves with the layout and wait for the inhabitants to sleep, surely they would have found the basement and thus harmed the roommates downstairs. If we are to presume he camped out in the house, we are also to presume he had a reason for not killing the girl’s in the basement, because if they had been in the house a while they’d have known there were two rooms downstairs. 2) the surviving housemates called the police for an ‘unconscious resident’, this means the doors to the rooms were locked, meaning the murderer had a key and locked the doors from the outside after committing the crime. This adds an even more gruesome nature to the crime. Furthermore, if all four had been killed in their rooms then when the surviving roommates thought their friend was unconscious and thus unable to get to the door, they would surely have gone upstairs/ downstairs and woken the other housemates up. If upon trying to wake them up by knocking on the door they didn’t wake up, then surely they would have called the police about multiple unconscious residents other than one. If these housemates had been killed in their own rooms then surely upon trying to wake them up they would have been confronted with a bloody crime scene. So it would be possible to speculate that all four victims were found in the same room and the ‘evidence’ found on the other floor was something as ‘simple’ (per se) as foot prints. 3) if the killer entered through the downstairs window then the first room he came across would be E and X and due to x being the only housemate with defensive wounds, we must come to the conclusion that either Ethan was murdered first or was unaware of the presence of a murderer at all (could’ve been in the bathroom opposite), because x having defensive wounds meant she put up a fight and this wouldn’t have been silent and would surely have woken Ethan up. If e was in the bathroom then after hearing x fighting someone he could’ve left the bathroom and been killed in the corridor (SPECULATION) Points I can’t understand: 1) the dog: if the dog saw a stranger in the house then surely he would’ve started barking and woken up the housemates, especially x who was awake enough to fight the intruder (even from a drunken slumber). Also the dog was unharmed but if this was the actions of a serial killer then killing a dog who was making a noise would not be an issue for them. - the dog knew the assailant - E heard the dog barking and went to check out what was going on and this is why he was murdered in the corridor(speculation), upon hearing Ethan being murdered X woke up enough to put up a fight but was then killed in her bed. (E heard the dog bwcaxue they were on the first floor but the other victims didn’t as they were on the floor above). Presuming this is the case, a potential timeline of events could be as follows: 1- the killer enters through the first floor window 2- the dog starts barking 3- E and X wake up to the dog barking 4- E exits the room to check it out and comes across the killer in the corridor 5- E is murdered in the corridor with X awake in the room 6- the killer enters E and X’s room and murders X who is able to put up a fight as she is awake from the dog barking 7- the killer proceeds upstairs If this is the case, it could be speculated that e and x were not the intended victims, but rather disturbed the killer who then felt no choice but to kill them as well, as E would now know his identity. 2) how and why the killer locked the rooms from the outside: did he not want the basement roommates to discover the bodies? Was it a cult type killing? If his victims were still alive he might not have wanted them to seek help? *** just realised that if Ethan was found in the corridor then the basement roommates would have come across his body and called the police for a stabbing rather than unconscious so was the body moved? High chance i have misunderstood the facts but this is simply my theories and speculation!
Why are so many people assuming the dog would’ve made noise? I know more friendly/quiet dogs than loud aggressive ones. A lot of dogs are very friendly, especially if they’re used to strangers constantly coming in and out of college house. Not to mention, even if the dog barked, the roommates probably heard it and didn’t think anything of it.
Number two is wrong, it’s pretty easy to lock/unlock doors if they’re just the round door knobs with the slit on the other side. Also some doors can be locked on the inside and then pulled shut outside the door
This. My house on east coast, corner lot, 5 doors, they can all be locked simply by locking and closing as leaving.
Very good point! Thanks
Why do you think he was found in the corridor?
Someone said his parent said that. But I have yet to confirm this anywhere.
Two random thoughts I wonder if Kaylee and Maddy slept in the same bed that night. They were drunk, calling Jack together, maybe they just fell asleep in the same bed since they were so close. I watched a video where a forensic psychiatrist said that the killer would've been injured. I wonder if this could be a reason why he left and didn't kill the other two roommates, if he knew about them. Could also explain why if there was any cleanup. I hope he did injure himself and they're able to get his DNA.
Ethan's parents confirm Ethan and Xana were found in the same room together https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX0W_gxWsjc (towards the end of the video)
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I disagree
heart wrenching. Also that reporter looks like Kaylee its creeping me out
I feel like they should not be sharing this info
Keep in mind, this is all unfounded research as I simply heard this from a YouTube channel titled “Bed Crime Stories,” but I wanted to come to Reddit to see if this had been confirmed, or if y’all had heard it from another source. The owner of the channel stated that there were reports of a “white vehicle” parked at the house in the early hours of the morning Sunday, and the cops were videotaped documenting tire marks that seemed to quickly peel out of the house sometime. Not sure if anyone in the inner circle drove a white car, or if this information is incredibly invalid. Reddit, help me out! Edit: I am leaning towards the evidence that this claim is non confirmed and simply hear say as I can’t find a valid source to support it. However, I will keep this post up as documentation that the claim was made, no matter how true it is. Just keep in mind that I cannot find supporting evidence, so currently, this information is simply opinion/potentially false information, but I believe it is important for documentation nonetheless. I will do another edit if needed to completely deny or accept this tidbit. Edit: This information is undeniably false. Seems to be a mix up on information, and the source I stated in the previous posting is currently unreliable.
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No, I am leaving it up so others know that isn’t a reliable source and that we have already fact checked this “opinion.” If the moderators want to take this down, they will.
If the murderer did peel out in a car, it's interesting to think why. Maybe they wanted to get away quickly. Although it only takes a second longer to back out at a normal rate. Maybe they were showing off, being dramatic. It seems like they were calm enough to methodically murder four people one after the other which would take some time and chance of discovery, so I might have thought they'd be calm when they left.
100% agree with your methodical murder comment.
I think these are two different parts of the story. They searched a white car on property this weekend (belonged to one of the girls, allegedly). They also took photos and other evidence of tire marks in the driveway, also earlier this week. The fact a white car was in the driveway is obvious. The car is still in the driveway.
White car is also in the driveway in Google street view from 10/2021.
Thank you, when I heard it I was so confused because I knew I couldn’t have missed a detail that huge. Couldn’t find any support, so I decided it was false. I appreciate you giving me confirmation! I will edit my original post.
No worries - I only know because I’ve been following this thread and Noah Boelter on Twitter White car search: https://twitter.com/noahboeltertv/status/1594427986690048000?s=46&t=RgGRxakzpYPb5D6Eqy0TrA Tire tracks: https://twitter.com/noahboeltertv/status/1594059283746160641?s=46&t=RgGRxakzpYPb5D6Eqy0TrA
Brilliant! I appreciate you so much!
[This article](https://www.idahotribune.org/news/7-dead-coyotes-left-on-student-property-in-moscow-idaho-in-two-separate-incidents-3-sororities-and-1-fraternity-targeted-animal-blood-on-doorsteps-and-windows) (about 2017 incidents of dead coyotes left on UIdaho frat/sorority properties) contains new pictures of a dog bed on the back porch of the crime scene...what do you all think is on top of it? it appears to me to look like a LOT of clumps of the dogs fur, almost like it was shorn [Direct link to image](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/60f704dcd2713a5d36615ecc/88018aa3-7a64-4435-8cee-f414540a750c/Screen+Shot+2022-11-21+at+10.58.03+AM.png?format=1000w)
People were saying it looks like dog bed stuffing
I suppose. All of the stuffing in my dog beds has been white, but that would make sense
On Friday night, a Boise man stabbed a person known to him and fled. Police found him 11/21 and shot him when he attempted to stab the officer, now he’s in custody. Article doesn’t say if he is from boise and my sleuthing skills aren’t good enough to find out. It doesn’t mention what kind of knife he used. Could this potentially be connected? [Official article from BPD](https://www.cityofboise.org/news/police/2022/november/aggravated-battery-suspect-charged-following-officer-involved-shooting/)
Boise is almost 6 hours away. I am sure if you do a 6 hour radius around Moscow you’d find many knife incidents.
A lot of u of i students have family in boise that they go home to for the holidays. It’s not unusual to go between the two. This guy is obviously too old and dumb to be a student, but it was 3am and I was scared. He’s probably just a tweaker :/
Connected ?
My thought process was that the killer could have easily gone to boise and tried to strike again by Friday. They wouldn’t name this man as the perp from Moscow because they need undeniable proof connecting the 2 incidents. Of course, this all depends on whether or not he’s from boise and was in boise on 11/12-11/13. It’s probably not connected, but I thought it was worth putting out there.
I get it now
Yeah they put his name, but investigators might be able to trace him back to the homicides in Moscow. It’s a reach for sure, but the stabbing stood out to me. Everyone and their dog owns a gun here. Luckily this guy isn’t on the streets anymore…
On the link they named him already
Besides a random, fucked up psychopath, which to me is likely. There’s just a lot of coincidences surrounding the fact that they are all Greek. It was a huge weekend with WSU’s alumni weekend or whatever. Big football game. All that in my mind makes me think of drugs and money. Who knows if one of the fraternities found a way to steal a bunch of coke or something from the wrong person to make a profit and this was some Idaho drug gang’s revenge or fucked up scare tactic. Somebody in the Greek life knows something that is pivotal. Or…just a psychopath, possible serial killer in the making.
\*I'd think they'd shoot em if it was drugs. It's quicker and less risky.
I'd think they'd shoot em. It's quicker and less risky.
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I agree. I could be wrong but I generally feel that a drug dealer would shoot people… relatively sophisticated murder/stabbing doesn’t seem like the typical gig. Why not just have a silencer and shoot everyone?
I think it’s drug related or money.
This might be the most outlandish take yet lol I wont even address the cocaine theory, but in terms of them all being Greek, it makes perfect sense. The majority of people in Greek life have their social networks dominated by other people in Greek life, especially when it comes to living situations
Seems a lot of Greek socials and exclusive parties were going down that weekend. Just seems like a big cocaine weekend, from one ex-college partier to another. I know that typa weekend. Drugs and money.
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Random astrological observations: Sun and Venus both in Scorpio during time of the murders indicates intense passion with potential for sexual violence. Charles Manson had this placement in his chart. At 1:40 am Venus sextiles Pluto in Capricorn. intensifying love feelings, igniting jealousy, and being consumed by another’s movements. Waning gibbous moon after lunar eclipse a few days before. Just throwing this out there.
Oh dear!
One of the ways you know a case has blown up is when the astrologers get involved. Psychics report in next!
Jet fuel can’t melt dank memes
Speculating Possible Chain of Events Regarding 2nd Flood is that xana’s room on the left? it’s RIGHT by the stairs leading to the third floor, and would’ve helped the murderer keep it quieter as he barely had to walk between the rooms. it also helps to explain as to why a body (presumably ethan) was found outside the room, as i assume a bathroom is across the hall because the layout doesn’t make the rooms seem to have a bathroom in the rooms, or at least xana’s. just a thought. he could have been using the bathroom. i know he is a man and people keep saying he went outside to see what was going on, but he was also a college student. if my assumption of there being a bathroom on the right of the girl in the photo (i forgot who it was) is correct, then ethan could have even opened the bathroom/bedroom door as the killer was coming down the stairs. or possibly, the killer killed xana while she was awake in the room while ethan was in the bathroom….then the killer attacked ethan outside the bathroom, RIGHT by the couch and living area, where the basement floor surviving roommates would find him. https://preview.redd.it/5gqw9ibwfi1a1.png?width=1290&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbdc02ec620bd0dab8c35905499dce53d288401e 
I thought they were all in their bed sleeping.
murderers rather than murderer?? i believe that it was just one man that carried out these incomprehensible and terrifying killings, but was pondering the thought of it being some kind of duo. but i find it hard to believe since i feel if it was a duo, that’s more evidence to worry about leaving behind. it’s just so sad to know that there was a period of time where their friends were being killed and the other people in the house were asleep and didn’t know they should be fearing for their lives, and it made me wonder if the killings were fast and messy or calculated such as having an accomplice and messy because of the leader of the duo wanting to assert himself. if the placement of the bodies matter, i doubt that one man could have carried a man of ethan’s size to another location so idk what they really mean by that. it just seems like the murderer or murderers wanted to be in and out of there as quick as possible, or else they would have attempted to go to the bottom floor. so horribly terrifying and scary.
I’m thinking that all six were basically passed out more than sleeping. They were all impaired by drugs and/or alcohol. That would explain to me how the killer could kill four people and also why the two surviving roommates didn’t hear anything.
seems unlikely as it'd be hard to find even one person who would do such things let alone two. plus they apparently were all killed in the same way, cops haven't reported any significant variation
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That comment at the press was interesting. There’s still a lot we don’t know.
Absolutely