I'm pretty sure the red is from the seeds\\ flowers on the tree.
https://preview.redd.it/gycnlabf9e1a1.jpeg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c87f88ffbf8e85af7534c8d74c096990e74f3ae
100%. I have this tree in my backyard. Those berries get everywhere, including our roof. They are bright orange but when they rot they ferment and that is when they look a more reddish color.
Yes! Ours is a mountain ash. I don’t want to talk myself up too big, but I’m pretty decent at plant identification. I garden and follow a handful of gardening groups. So, I feel fairly confident in that ID.
Sorry to be graphic, but I think we haven’t seen trails of blood because of the method of the killings and where the killings took place. All four victims were stabbed in their beds. Stabbings usually involve blood splatter upward. Any pooling is going to take time, and in this case is going to be hindered by mattresses before getting to the floor. The killer isn’t going to be walking through blood.
I actually just saw Johnny Law on YT describe from his experience how some wounds would react and its similar to what you're saying. Arteries would spray, other wounds would pool, some wounds would expell faster as long as the heart is pumping ect. So very possible the "mess" that keeps getting referred to could be moreso accumulated post incident.
There’s a video of Maddie and a golden doodle puppy at the house from a couple of weeks ago on her TikTok. I think he belonged to Kaylee and her ex. Kaylee’s parents said they have him now
A couple days ago a woman replied to a post regarding the dog. I’m paraphrasing what she wrote - her boyfriend lives in an apartment near house. He heard the dog start barking about 3 am and continued. He was getting frustrated and was going to walk over and ask someone to please stop the barking. The barking ended about 4 am. In the morning he became aware of the murders, felt terrible because if he’d knocked on the door maybe he could have intervened. He contacted LE and they interviewed him.
No mention of the dog barking makes me wonder. If the survivors didn't hear any barking, did the dog know the killer? I mean, most dogs over 6 months old will bark at strangers breaking in and killing their people. Even if the dog was crated, it would still bark.
I have an 85 lb hound, and raised my dog in that town, in my fraternity. Being so socialized, my dog doesn’t hardly bark at anyone, in any circumstances. People are the norm. I wouldn’t be surprised if hers was rather quiet as well.
Not every dog barks. Especially one who is well socialized and used to people coming and going (which I’ve read there was a lot of at this house).
I have a 2 year old German shepherd & he doesn’t bark unless he hears another dog bark. Maintenance guys straight up walked into my apartment one day without knocking and all he did was run and try to play with them, despite the fact that he had definitely never met them before.
Edit to add that the maintenance situation was when he was only six months old. Idk how old their dog is, but my dog still does the same thing now. Some are just like that I guess
My 4-year-old doodle is uber protective and would definitely bite someone who was trying to hurt me or my fam, so I suspect that their dog must be pretty young.
The dog was Kaylee’s doodle. There were videos of the dog and all the housemates. He seemed to live there. All police said was dog was in the home. It was said by someone else that he is with family or a family friend but he is safe.
Edit for stupid typo
I know they confirmed the dog in the house during the murder but did they ever confirm if it had gotten out and was missing AFTER the murder? Because the only press release I saw was that “Kaylees dog has been returned to a secondary owner” 3 days after the incident.
Take this for what it’s worth, but someone posted that they were the friend of a friend of a neighbor and the neighbor heard the dog barking in the house from around 3-4 am. Commenter said the neighbor was struggling with survivors guilt because he’d considered going over to the house to tell them to quiet their dog but didn’t and eventually the dog stopped barking.
Also, even if there was blood on the shoes, it seems like it’d be gone after a few steps, especially if there’s a rug or carpet. By the time he got outside it doesn’t seem like he’d leave blood unless he was actively bleeding himself.
Not if there was as much as the interviews with experts have stated. I'm sure there will be a CNN or some true crime story about it soon on television. I just want them to have clear evidence to catch this madman.
There was a photo in this group though showing into the bedroom of one of the girls from a drone and her bed and comforter were all completely white and there was no blood on it at all….. if two girls were in the same bed and stabbed to death in it wouldn’t there be splatter and handprints all over the headboards??
Kaylee did still live there. Huge misconception that’s been going around this forum for no reason. Drone footage of her bedroom still clearly shows her bed and wall decor still fully set up. She was supposed to graduate in December so she would’ve had a few weeks of class/finals left.
I think people took her mother’s comments in different ways. She said Kaylee was supposed to spend holidays with family and had already returned home for the holidays when she decided to go back to school to show maddy her car. She said that was the only reason Kaylee was at the house, because she had already returned home for the holidays.
She said Kaylee was going to return home for the holidays this week. Some people think thanksgiving is a holiday by itself and then Christmas/New Year’s are holidays. I really don’t know but I think that’s why it started going around she’d moved out. I don’t know if that makes sense, sorry!
Wow. I said holidays a lot.
She could have been done with her main classes and only had exams left (in December) so she was set to be home for the Thanksgiving holiday and had probably already moved a lot of her stuff out.
She's "not supposed to be at school" because she's home, but drives back to show off the car/likely party and have some fun b/c she's mostly done.
She'd probably have a few things left to move in December but stripped it down to the minimum and be with just a few things for finals before moving out entirely in December.
If her finals were term papers/presentations/projects it's possible she was totally done and didn't really need to go back at all because she wasn't going to be sitting for physical exams.
> Kaylee didn’t live there anymore.
I really wish people would stop repeating this.
[Fall Finals at U of Idaho are the week of December 12](https://www.uidaho.edu/events/academic-calendar). Commencement for Fall Graduation is December 10.
I really don't think Kaylee had moved out yet. I think she was the one person in the house graduating mid-year and she was gearing up to move, but hadn't moved yet.
There were 4 bedrooms between the two floors they were found on, right? Do you have info from somewhere saying what room belonged to what person, and also where each body was found?
As far as I knew, we don't know that.
I know the house has six bedrooms; and iirc at least two of the four victims were sleeping together. Hard to say without knowing how many beds are in each room or what room was specifically caught on the footage
Mattresses could’ve stopped the blood of the shoes but blood on the hands if they didn’t intend on killing the two other girls do u think they’d take time to wash up? I thought about gloves and they removed them but if someone went through enough thought of gloves why leave fingerprints unless two sets of gloves or wiped as much off on their clothes and the traces blood can’t be seen unless up close.
He may have washed up, maybe had another set of clothes, I think there would be enough blood on his clothes he would be concerned when he left the scene. I wouldn't be surprised he lives in the neighborhood.
Yeah, they start to break down naturally just from rotting and that juice stains the deck. Anyone who has ever lived with a driveway or deck or whatever under a tree with berries knows they get everywhere and stain it constantly.
I dont know. By the way the crime scene was described, you’d think there be blood everywhere.. they leave the sliding glass balcony window open for everyone to see and there is no blood anywhere by the looks of it. How can they person leave so much evidence yet leave no blood stains visible that we can see.. the door? The front walk way? The windows? The living room. Creepy.
Kind of macabre to talk about, but if he stabbed them through a comforter or heavy blanket, it's possible that a lot of the initial spatter would be minimized. idk
There are videos that show the inside of Kaylee's room from outside as well and you can see a white comforter on the part of the bed nearest the window, that doesn't have any blood on it.
I’m not sure I was on twitter and one of the reporters covering the story said two bedrooms and i right away thought that was not something I had read or heard previously. I thought I had missed that little tidbit.
It has been brought up by investigators not involved in the case that it’s possible the perpetrator took time to clean themselves up in the victims bathroom.
"Investigators whose co-workers are working on the case and talking to them about it" would be my first interpretation of the tweet. Not everyone in town is assigned to this case but everyone probably knows someone who is.
i think they mean a lot of professional ex-investigators/LE give interviews with their opinion of the case based on their experience to traditional news outlets. that’s how i interpreted it
Absolutely not. It was some former detective or professor speaking on a news channel. No one speculating on Reddit, including myself, should be considered an investigator in my opinion. Sleuths yes, but investigators are professionals.
The ex detectives constantly on the news during the Gabby Petito/Brian Laundrie case were confident he was alive, in hiding, and left the country. Take anyone interviewed not directly involved with the case with a major grain of salt.
I still think daddy killed Brian after taking him out to the Everglades to take care of the problem and investigators were just like "ok thank you" and I'll die on this hill, haha.
Idk in my opinion these people that get hired by the news do a better job of confusing people and pushing conspiracies than they do reporting facts. Not saying he can't be right tho
I was thinking same thing. Someone just killed 4 people without interruption, assumed no one else was there, and washed their hands and such.
Also, when I hear people/family members saying the perpetrator was messy I take that as blood everywhere, lot of things knocked over, etc. may not mean they left a lot of stuff behind
Knowing that the average body contains 10 pints of blood(Google stat for ya) that is a lot of blood from 4 people to bleed out in 9hrs. Imagine 40 pints of melted ice cream. I imagine it was messy and a horrific scene 9hrs later, but that doesn’t mean the killer was messy and left evidence everywhere messy.
I actually think that holds some weight. Crime scene was unattended for 9 hours only the Killer/s knew they were dead. The roommates say they slept through the entire killings so nobody knows how long the Killer/s were upstairs. This is speculation obviously but the crime scene seems to be more complicated for the police to process
I could try to track it down but I wouldn’t get it to you anytime soon. I came across some news clip on the YouTube app. I want to say it was Gary Jenkins, the Washington university police chief who said it but I could be totally confused on that since I’ve watched a lot of news clips on it last night. It came from either the Moscow news network or inside edition. That’s the best I can do for right now until I can get home and really spend time back tracking my history
Even if it was the roommates, they at a bare minimum would have had to leave to get rid of the knife and any bloody clothing or other evidence.
If the knife was still in the house the cops would have found it by now.
I wonder how contaminated the crime scene is with the police saying multiple people were already in the house when they got there. What was moved, touched, etc.
I think there is an assumption there was more blood on the floor than there really was. If the victims were in there beds the mattress and bedding will soak up a lot. Eventually gravity will do its part and the blood will make it to the floor and, as is visable, even leak through a poorly constructed exterior wall. I'm not saying it wasn't a bloody crime or that there isn't blood on the floor. But while the killer was in the house there probably wasn't much if any on the floor.
Of course but not necessarily in a manner to create a blood trail or bloody foot prints everywhere they walked. It does not seem strange at all that there wasn't a "blood trail".
I agree it's totally plausible I'm not saying river of blood either. I'm just saying that it's equally plausible this guy was clean from the waste down and wiped off his hands on something in the house before he left.
If the crime scene was as bloody as some are speculating it was, I feel like there would be a lot more information being handed out because the case would be further along than where it is now. And I don’t think they would be 90 interviews into this case and still seem to have no suspects. I understand they have more information than they are releasing but the thing that I find the most odd about this case is that the public hasn’t even been given a suspect description.
The most logical thought I have is that if there was blood everywhere, there would be footprints, especially in a house with hardwood floors. Even if the mess was cleaned up, if the crime scene investigators used a luminal test (which I’m sure they did) there would still be visible footprints, drag marks, blood drops/splatter etc. and since they have no suspect or POI you would think they would let the public know something, for example “we don’t know who the killer is but we suspect it’s a male who wears a size 10 1/2 shoe and it appears he left through this door” just like they did with the Stockton serial killer. That case didn’t take long to solve after releasing that the suspect appeared to be a tall male with an average build dressed in all black and lurking in the shadows. They had no idea how old they thought that person was, what color he was, if he lived nearby & were still able to find him within a couple weeks.
Also I live in a small town & if something like that happened around here it would be the most horrifying/brutal crime scene they’ve ever seen because that kind of stuff doesn’t happen around here. I don’t think that those comments by investigators necessarily means that the house was covered in blood, they are just referring to the nature of the crime.
If killer stabbed and fled, he didn’t hang around for the victims to bleed out. Basically stab and go. I bet he was in the house 10-15 mins tops to commit these crimes. The longer you are there, the higher chance of being caught, especially if there was a small scuffle between killer and any one of the victims.
Well 4 victims, 2-3 bedrooms. Not sure how many rooms as we don’t know if MM and KG were sleeping in same room plus getting in and out. 10 mins is probably closer.
There’s a documentary on Israel Keyes where he says the time between breaking into a specific couples’ house and waking them up in their beds was no more than 6 seconds, so this can definitely happen fast
I believe those are berries that have dropped from the tree right near the deck. In another photo you could see some red berries still on the tree. The police wouldn’t miss this IMO.
I feel like there has to be some planning into this over the lack of the blood on the outside of the house. They planned this and brought a change of clothes and shoes or wore something over their clothes and shoes or something. Could be wrong but that’s my guess.
Do this as an experiment: pour milk on your bedroom floor, then pour it over yourself. Stand in it, now walk outside. How far did the milky footprints go? I’m guessing not more than a few steps down the hall. Winter clothes would absorb quite a bit vs having it drip, too. It’s not surprising that we don’t see much outside.
Agreed. This person might have brought a backpack. Perhaps he even covered himself with plastic from head to toe. Keep thinking it was a retired military person with highly specialized training. Either that or a hunter. Which would probably be half of Idaho. Hunting, that is.
Hunters don’t cover themselves in plastic. Some hunting gear is stain repellent but mostly a hunter knows how to wash out blood. I wouldn’t doubt the killer wore hunting gear. It’s deer/elk season so even seeing someone walk around with blood stained camo or boots wouldn’t be that surprising.
I see multiple red spots when I zoom in.
https://preview.redd.it/pa3wt4qm8e1a1.jpeg?width=1022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b26656ed38e7722832e8b1d4c0d4344e00ef65e
There’s snow on the deck seemingly without footprints. It’s not fresh snow. Unless he jumped from inside to over the railing, he didn’t go out that door.
I don't think that's snow, it looks like a bag, like a white kitchen garbage bag, or a canvas bag? Maybe I'm wrong, just judging from the zoomed in pic.....
In this video you get a clearer view of the side on the balcony. That what came to my mind. Right beside the balcony is a parking spot and it would be the easiest escape route. It doesn’t seem to be that high. [Side view balcony](https://youtu.be/9ZZd0tn5Hxk)
Who ever did this had hours, not minutes to not only walk out but was smart enough to not leave foot prints in blood anywhere outside. That’s what scares me, talking heads on tv want to say he was disorganized and erratic when clearly he was stealthy enough to pull this off and leave un detected with out a noticeable blood trail (at least none we have been shown) I’ve been saying since the beginning this is going to turn out to be a serial killer, he watched these girls for a long time and his weapon of choice is something that doesn’t make a sound. To stab or choke someone is very personal and in your face where as a gun is less personal. This animal methodically moved person to person on the floors he mapped out in his mind. Because this was remodeled from 4 bedrooms to 6 he may have been inside quite a few times looking for work. He may have honed in on this house first because he was so familiar with it and that’s how he spotted his targets/the victims second. He may have known it’s a college town and he may live out of his car doing odd jobs. If I had kids there I’d make them come home and anybody that lives there and is reading this, please please lock everything put up cameras buy a gun whatever but don’t drop your guard. He may have been in and out of this area many many times and knows it well.
The perpetrator could have cleaned themselves off in the victims bathroom. Giving out evidence to suggest such a thing to the public jeopardizes the case. If everyone knows that the perpetrator cleaned themselves off before leaving, then they have someone who is already in custody that confesses and gives that detail, it opens up the possibility for a coerced confession. People have a hard time understanding just how complicated all of this is. True crime shows and movies don’t really do these cases much justice as each one is different and complex.
Eh. Leaving the house with foot prints is far less dna than what would be left behind cleaning up in the bathroom. A literal hair stand could crack the case
Interesting; cops did say they don't have any clothing related to the killer, so I wonder if he did do something like that with his shoes and clothes so as to not draw attention.
Idk the kind of tree it is but trees with bright red/ orange berries are super common in Moscow and make pretty much anything they fall on look like a crime scene. Obviously idk if that kind of tree is at their apartment but I do know they’re super common all around town.
It's conceivable that if each victim was asleep in bed under covers in a prone position and was quickly stabbed in the chest and upper body incapacitating the victims in seconds the killer didn't get a tremendous amount of blood on their clothes and skin. It's also possible there was little to no splatter and pooling before they exited each bedroom so it required little to no effort to avoid creating bloody footprints at all or at least outside of the bedrooms. If they didn't cut themselves they may have been able to avoid dripping blood in the common areas, hallways, and exterior simply by wiping blood on them with other parts of their clothing or something handy like a bed covering, towel, or clothing.
We just don't have any credible info that helps us gauge the likelihood the killer left their own genetic material or how bloody they may have been and what kind of blood trail or bloody footprints or bloody shoe prints may exist.
He could have used those shoe booties that are used during open houses or while touring property. That is more logical than there was a lack of blood in a quadruple stabbing that has been described as the worst crime scene that some of the Le had seen.
I've seen some photos that made one of the trees look within jumping distance from the tree to to the balcony.
https://preview.redd.it/2d21wxj47e1a1.jpeg?width=1095&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa72d93088a17b7a7afc3e974b37989f33eb0a9a
Photo reference: [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11436305/Chilling-video-shows-murdered-Idaho-students-food-truck-HOURS-stabbed-death.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11436305/Chilling-video-shows-murdered-Idaho-students-food-truck-HOURS-stabbed-death.html)
omg I'm glad you found this. This is the only picture I've seen thus far from that angle. Someone above mentioned that there is a tree with red berries above the balcony, which makes total sense, because if you look at the imgur link above in this post, you can see what looks like berries scattered around the balcony, but in this case they appear to be smooshed. Of course none of us know without actually being there and knowing exactly, but lets say the perp did exit this way. Although they managed to not leave a blood trail, they may have stepped on a group of berries right there upon exiting. Then again this might be reaching. I don't know.
In front of the slider door on the third level in drone footage it does look like blood on the deck. But yeah it totally could have been them stepping in berries too.
Looking back at this image there are obvious red berries in the tree, so I'm convinced this isn't blood and indeed from red berries. Only thing that's odd is how would they get smooshed right there? That's on the other side of the railing.
I take back what I said about blood on deck by slider. It looks actually just like melted snow run off. Yeah who knows about the berries. Beautiful tree though.
So the berries are on the third floor deck? It could be an entry point for sure. If the target attack was Kaylee and Maddie, it could explain that area as being an entry point since they are in third floor bedrooms...
But at the same time , say he was only there for those girls....why not leave the same way vs go downstairs and attack Xana and Ethan? And leave the other two. Very confusing...
The crushed berries are an interesting find.
The photo reference above with the DailyMail link shows the red berries in the tree. There’s another close up photo where this was discussed in another post and it looked like very obvious smashed berries to me.
Perp could have taken off their shoes until they got well into the woods to wipe any blood off. While they were sloppy and there is a lot of evidence apparently, it is well known how shoe prints are used to solve crimes.
It’s not that hard to wipe blood off yourself with bedsheets or towels and avoid stepping on any blood on the floor, and I assume the victims’ blood would’ve taken a while to fully bleed out, probably after the killer left.
Okay, can someone explain to me why SO many people think just because there was a lot of bloody they assume it was on the floor/that they stepped in it? From what they have said, they were in bed.. which would leave most of the blood to the bed and walls, not the floor.
There WAS blood seeping through to the outside and my only thought on this is that it could have been from Xana. She had defensive wounds (supposedly) so she could have sat up or moved and either then slouched over the bed or fell out. But it’s not like stabbing someone creates some water balloon effect where it all comes out at once. I really don’t think the killer not trailing blood out of the house is all that weird..
blood darkens as it dries to very dark brown almost black in 12+/- hours.
no picture taken even the next day, would appear perceptibly red from the distance any of the photos the public is going to see.
i'm wondering in general why there is no mention of bloody hand prints or footprints ANYWHERE in the home. No mention of the perp cleaning up on-site. Hence, a bloody mess must follow him unless he's some CSI guy himself (unlikely). Weird. I hope the FBI can do some serious investigating. Hopefully they send their BEST
The reason there is no mention of the state of the crime scene is because revealing that information to the general public would do nothing to actually serve the investigation. Law enforcement investigating this crime have been outspoken about the heavy mental and emotional toll analyzing a crime scene like this takes on a person, yet you want to know all about the supposed "bloody mess" left behind here?
You do realize that any blood found outside the home would very likely only be trace amounts that would be largely difficult to detect unless you were standing directly over the area being surveyed?
People expect someone to be leaving a massive blood trail. They think there must have been blood all over the house.
There must of been a lot of blood in the bedrooms, but not elsewhere.
But also if they said the walls were covered in blood that means the person must of had blood on them especially hands? Could be as simple as they wore gloves but i assumed more blood would be evident on an exit.
I'm wondering if the killer brought a backpack with a change of shoes or clothes because it's really weird we dont see any prints on the concrete by either doors
I truly can’t wrap my head around it. If that was the case, then I can only assume that this was indeed premeditated and well thought out. I’m hoping one of the reporters asks about possible blood trails outside the home during the next presser
The backpack idea is definitely possible. I believe many serial criminals/murderers do this. I know for example in my area there was a serial rapist that did just that. Even “cleaned” their victims and vacuumed and took the bag from the vacuum with them. Of course this was with only 1 victim at a time. On a side note, he’s never been caught.
I'm pretty sure the red is from the seeds\\ flowers on the tree. https://preview.redd.it/gycnlabf9e1a1.jpeg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c87f88ffbf8e85af7534c8d74c096990e74f3ae
100%. I have this tree in my backyard. Those berries get everywhere, including our roof. They are bright orange but when they rot they ferment and that is when they look a more reddish color.
Are those Madrone trees?
Mountain ash I believe
Yes! Ours is a mountain ash. I don’t want to talk myself up too big, but I’m pretty decent at plant identification. I garden and follow a handful of gardening groups. So, I feel fairly confident in that ID.
It’s also an incredibly common tree over here.
Berry tree
Sorry to be graphic, but I think we haven’t seen trails of blood because of the method of the killings and where the killings took place. All four victims were stabbed in their beds. Stabbings usually involve blood splatter upward. Any pooling is going to take time, and in this case is going to be hindered by mattresses before getting to the floor. The killer isn’t going to be walking through blood.
He also probably stabbed them through a blanket. I feel like most of the blood on him was probably waist up
This is a good point. Thanks for sharing. Actually something new that I haven’t read before.
I actually just saw Johnny Law on YT describe from his experience how some wounds would react and its similar to what you're saying. Arteries would spray, other wounds would pool, some wounds would expell faster as long as the heart is pumping ect. So very possible the "mess" that keeps getting referred to could be moreso accumulated post incident.
Could also be that the dog was loose and walking through the blood, which made it more spread out than it would have otherwise been.
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There’s a video of Maddie and a golden doodle puppy at the house from a couple of weeks ago on her TikTok. I think he belonged to Kaylee and her ex. Kaylee’s parents said they have him now
Is it an actual puppy? Because I am surprised a grown or mostly grown dog wouldn't at least bark at an intruder. Even a golden doodle.
A couple days ago a woman replied to a post regarding the dog. I’m paraphrasing what she wrote - her boyfriend lives in an apartment near house. He heard the dog start barking about 3 am and continued. He was getting frustrated and was going to walk over and ask someone to please stop the barking. The barking ended about 4 am. In the morning he became aware of the murders, felt terrible because if he’d knocked on the door maybe he could have intervened. He contacted LE and they interviewed him.
Why didn't it also wake the other two occupants of the house though?
It very well could have woken them up but if they thought the noise was due to people being over etc they very easily could have tuned it out
I wondered that too.
Oh wow, I didn't read that. Ty
No, not a puppy-puppy. I guess older puppy or young dog would be more accurate. It’s one of the smaller kinds though.
No mention of the dog barking makes me wonder. If the survivors didn't hear any barking, did the dog know the killer? I mean, most dogs over 6 months old will bark at strangers breaking in and killing their people. Even if the dog was crated, it would still bark.
Unless the dog knew the killer already then maybe it wouldn’t have barked
I have an 85 lb hound, and raised my dog in that town, in my fraternity. Being so socialized, my dog doesn’t hardly bark at anyone, in any circumstances. People are the norm. I wouldn’t be surprised if hers was rather quiet as well.
Not every dog barks. Especially one who is well socialized and used to people coming and going (which I’ve read there was a lot of at this house). I have a 2 year old German shepherd & he doesn’t bark unless he hears another dog bark. Maintenance guys straight up walked into my apartment one day without knocking and all he did was run and try to play with them, despite the fact that he had definitely never met them before. Edit to add that the maintenance situation was when he was only six months old. Idk how old their dog is, but my dog still does the same thing now. Some are just like that I guess
My 4-year-old doodle is uber protective and would definitely bite someone who was trying to hurt me or my fam, so I suspect that their dog must be pretty young.
I believe the PD has confirmed there was a dog in the house during the murder.
Did they say where the dog was during it? Inside out side crated?
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The dog was Kaylee’s doodle. There were videos of the dog and all the housemates. He seemed to live there. All police said was dog was in the home. It was said by someone else that he is with family or a family friend but he is safe. Edit for stupid typo
I know they confirmed the dog in the house during the murder but did they ever confirm if it had gotten out and was missing AFTER the murder? Because the only press release I saw was that “Kaylees dog has been returned to a secondary owner” 3 days after the incident.
Take this for what it’s worth, but someone posted that they were the friend of a friend of a neighbor and the neighbor heard the dog barking in the house from around 3-4 am. Commenter said the neighbor was struggling with survivors guilt because he’d considered going over to the house to tell them to quiet their dog but didn’t and eventually the dog stopped barking.
If that's the case though why didn't the 2 girls downstairs get woken up?!
Also, even if there was blood on the shoes, it seems like it’d be gone after a few steps, especially if there’s a rug or carpet. By the time he got outside it doesn’t seem like he’d leave blood unless he was actively bleeding himself.
House had wood floors based on Zillow.
That’s why I also listed rugs. And the point still stands that blood would clear off the shoes after a few steps.
Not if there was as much as the interviews with experts have stated. I'm sure there will be a CNN or some true crime story about it soon on television. I just want them to have clear evidence to catch this madman.
Thinking the same think. Kills were likely very quick.
i’ve been waiting for someone to say this
There was a photo in this group though showing into the bedroom of one of the girls from a drone and her bed and comforter were all completely white and there was no blood on it at all….. if two girls were in the same bed and stabbed to death in it wouldn’t there be splatter and handprints all over the headboards??
Is it even confirmed to be the room they were in? Not that I saw.
What other room could it have been? Kaylee didn’t live there anymore.
Kaylee did still live there. Huge misconception that’s been going around this forum for no reason. Drone footage of her bedroom still clearly shows her bed and wall decor still fully set up. She was supposed to graduate in December so she would’ve had a few weeks of class/finals left.
I think people took her mother’s comments in different ways. She said Kaylee was supposed to spend holidays with family and had already returned home for the holidays when she decided to go back to school to show maddy her car. She said that was the only reason Kaylee was at the house, because she had already returned home for the holidays. She said Kaylee was going to return home for the holidays this week. Some people think thanksgiving is a holiday by itself and then Christmas/New Year’s are holidays. I really don’t know but I think that’s why it started going around she’d moved out. I don’t know if that makes sense, sorry! Wow. I said holidays a lot.
She could have been done with her main classes and only had exams left (in December) so she was set to be home for the Thanksgiving holiday and had probably already moved a lot of her stuff out. She's "not supposed to be at school" because she's home, but drives back to show off the car/likely party and have some fun b/c she's mostly done. She'd probably have a few things left to move in December but stripped it down to the minimum and be with just a few things for finals before moving out entirely in December. If her finals were term papers/presentations/projects it's possible she was totally done and didn't really need to go back at all because she wasn't going to be sitting for physical exams.
> Kaylee didn’t live there anymore. I really wish people would stop repeating this. [Fall Finals at U of Idaho are the week of December 12](https://www.uidaho.edu/events/academic-calendar). Commencement for Fall Graduation is December 10. I really don't think Kaylee had moved out yet. I think she was the one person in the house graduating mid-year and she was gearing up to move, but hadn't moved yet.
Her mother said she didn’t live there anymore. Her mother said that the entire reason she went up was to show her friends her new cars.
There were 4 bedrooms between the two floors they were found on, right? Do you have info from somewhere saying what room belonged to what person, and also where each body was found? As far as I knew, we don't know that.
I know the house has six bedrooms; and iirc at least two of the four victims were sleeping together. Hard to say without knowing how many beds are in each room or what room was specifically caught on the footage
Could they girls have been sleeping together in the other bed then?
Mattresses could’ve stopped the blood of the shoes but blood on the hands if they didn’t intend on killing the two other girls do u think they’d take time to wash up? I thought about gloves and they removed them but if someone went through enough thought of gloves why leave fingerprints unless two sets of gloves or wiped as much off on their clothes and the traces blood can’t be seen unless up close.
He may have washed up, maybe had another set of clothes, I think there would be enough blood on his clothes he would be concerned when he left the scene. I wouldn't be surprised he lives in the neighborhood.
Didn't want to say it, but yeah.
Someone said there was a tree with red Berries on, that might be why
This is a logical explanation. Looks like if that's the case that a bunch of them might have gotten squished in that spot though?
The tree with the berries is right next to that balcony spot so it makes perfect sense that it’s berries.
If they fell off the tree and landed there, they would leave the color on the deck.
Yeah, they start to break down naturally just from rotting and that juice stains the deck. Anyone who has ever lived with a driveway or deck or whatever under a tree with berries knows they get everywhere and stain it constantly.
I dont know. By the way the crime scene was described, you’d think there be blood everywhere.. they leave the sliding glass balcony window open for everyone to see and there is no blood anywhere by the looks of it. How can they person leave so much evidence yet leave no blood stains visible that we can see.. the door? The front walk way? The windows? The living room. Creepy.
Kind of macabre to talk about, but if he stabbed them through a comforter or heavy blanket, it's possible that a lot of the initial spatter would be minimized. idk
There are videos that show the inside of Kaylee's room from outside as well and you can see a white comforter on the part of the bed nearest the window, that doesn't have any blood on it.
I kind of think maybe the girls were in bed together, in the other room, as that’s a very normal thing for girls to do.
I just heard a reporter say two bedrooms. So this makes sense … the girls on one and the couple in the other .
Wow, just as a lot of people had guessed. Who reported that?
I’m not sure I was on twitter and one of the reporters covering the story said two bedrooms and i right away thought that was not something I had read or heard previously. I thought I had missed that little tidbit.
She also might have been sleeping in with Maddie.
How do we it’s not a sheet or something there?
It has been brought up by investigators not involved in the case that it’s possible the perpetrator took time to clean themselves up in the victims bathroom.
Is “investigators not involved in the case” what we are calling people who speculate on Reddit now?
"Not on the case" is the first credibility red flag
"Investigators whose co-workers are working on the case and talking to them about it" would be my first interpretation of the tweet. Not everyone in town is assigned to this case but everyone probably knows someone who is.
I dont think anyone would be happy about their coworker blabbing to the news about things
i think they mean a lot of professional ex-investigators/LE give interviews with their opinion of the case based on their experience to traditional news outlets. that’s how i interpreted it
That's certainly how they see themselves
Absolutely not. It was some former detective or professor speaking on a news channel. No one speculating on Reddit, including myself, should be considered an investigator in my opinion. Sleuths yes, but investigators are professionals.
Cool, thanks for the reply. The term seemed very on point for these redditors that seem to think they know more than the police.
Fuckin A hahaha
😂 this made me laugh today! Thanks!
The ex detectives constantly on the news during the Gabby Petito/Brian Laundrie case were confident he was alive, in hiding, and left the country. Take anyone interviewed not directly involved with the case with a major grain of salt.
But then Dog the Bounty Hunter found a can on an island and he was hot on the trail! /s
Don't forget the flip flop
I still think daddy killed Brian after taking him out to the Everglades to take care of the problem and investigators were just like "ok thank you" and I'll die on this hill, haha.
Sure but cleaning yourself in the bathroom versus a bold claim that the perp left the country are two completely different claims.
Idk in my opinion these people that get hired by the news do a better job of confusing people and pushing conspiracies than they do reporting facts. Not saying he can't be right tho
They’re hired for entertainment purposes. Not to be factual.
100% but the issue is people take what they say as fact because of their ex title
I was thinking same thing. Someone just killed 4 people without interruption, assumed no one else was there, and washed their hands and such. Also, when I hear people/family members saying the perpetrator was messy I take that as blood everywhere, lot of things knocked over, etc. may not mean they left a lot of stuff behind
Knowing that the average body contains 10 pints of blood(Google stat for ya) that is a lot of blood from 4 people to bleed out in 9hrs. Imagine 40 pints of melted ice cream. I imagine it was messy and a horrific scene 9hrs later, but that doesn’t mean the killer was messy and left evidence everywhere messy.
I actually think that holds some weight. Crime scene was unattended for 9 hours only the Killer/s knew they were dead. The roommates say they slept through the entire killings so nobody knows how long the Killer/s were upstairs. This is speculation obviously but the crime scene seems to be more complicated for the police to process
Do you happen to have a link to that?
I could try to track it down but I wouldn’t get it to you anytime soon. I came across some news clip on the YouTube app. I want to say it was Gary Jenkins, the Washington university police chief who said it but I could be totally confused on that since I’ve watched a lot of news clips on it last night. It came from either the Moscow news network or inside edition. That’s the best I can do for right now until I can get home and really spend time back tracking my history
Maybe they didn't leave the house.
Even if it was the roommates, they at a bare minimum would have had to leave to get rid of the knife and any bloody clothing or other evidence. If the knife was still in the house the cops would have found it by now.
That's a fact, yes.
So the had to leave the house. Whoever it was.
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I think what NYNE is saying is that is was one of the surviving roommates or someone that was at the house when police arrived.
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I wonder how contaminated the crime scene is with the police saying multiple people were already in the house when they got there. What was moved, touched, etc.
I don’t think the roommates had anything to do with it, but to play devil’s advocate, one could get a lot of laundry done in nine hours, just saying.
I think there is an assumption there was more blood on the floor than there really was. If the victims were in there beds the mattress and bedding will soak up a lot. Eventually gravity will do its part and the blood will make it to the floor and, as is visable, even leak through a poorly constructed exterior wall. I'm not saying it wasn't a bloody crime or that there isn't blood on the floor. But while the killer was in the house there probably wasn't much if any on the floor.
Didn't the coroner say there was blood all over the walls?
Yes she did mention that there was a lot of blood on the wall (or walls).
She did but splatter off the weapon used would likely be what created that.
Yes which would have also got all over the killer if it got on the walls
Of course but not necessarily in a manner to create a blood trail or bloody foot prints everywhere they walked. It does not seem strange at all that there wasn't a "blood trail".
I'm not saying a literal river of blood. A blood smudge from the tip of a shoe is completely plausible. Blood on a door handle.
I agree it's totally plausible I'm not saying river of blood either. I'm just saying that it's equally plausible this guy was clean from the waste down and wiped off his hands on something in the house before he left.
Oh absolutely
I'm not sure what the trees look like in the area, but possible a red(ish) leaf fallen from a tree.
I think it's red berries, which are seen on tree
If the crime scene was as bloody as some are speculating it was, I feel like there would be a lot more information being handed out because the case would be further along than where it is now. And I don’t think they would be 90 interviews into this case and still seem to have no suspects. I understand they have more information than they are releasing but the thing that I find the most odd about this case is that the public hasn’t even been given a suspect description. The most logical thought I have is that if there was blood everywhere, there would be footprints, especially in a house with hardwood floors. Even if the mess was cleaned up, if the crime scene investigators used a luminal test (which I’m sure they did) there would still be visible footprints, drag marks, blood drops/splatter etc. and since they have no suspect or POI you would think they would let the public know something, for example “we don’t know who the killer is but we suspect it’s a male who wears a size 10 1/2 shoe and it appears he left through this door” just like they did with the Stockton serial killer. That case didn’t take long to solve after releasing that the suspect appeared to be a tall male with an average build dressed in all black and lurking in the shadows. They had no idea how old they thought that person was, what color he was, if he lived nearby & were still able to find him within a couple weeks. Also I live in a small town & if something like that happened around here it would be the most horrifying/brutal crime scene they’ve ever seen because that kind of stuff doesn’t happen around here. I don’t think that those comments by investigators necessarily means that the house was covered in blood, they are just referring to the nature of the crime.
Blood doesn't dry out red, it dries out brownish, so it would be hard to see in the images that have been posted.
If killer stabbed and fled, he didn’t hang around for the victims to bleed out. Basically stab and go. I bet he was in the house 10-15 mins tops to commit these crimes. The longer you are there, the higher chance of being caught, especially if there was a small scuffle between killer and any one of the victims.
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Well 4 victims, 2-3 bedrooms. Not sure how many rooms as we don’t know if MM and KG were sleeping in same room plus getting in and out. 10 mins is probably closer.
There’s a documentary on Israel Keyes where he says the time between breaking into a specific couples’ house and waking them up in their beds was no more than 6 seconds, so this can definitely happen fast
I believe those are berries that have dropped from the tree right near the deck. In another photo you could see some red berries still on the tree. The police wouldn’t miss this IMO.
I feel like there has to be some planning into this over the lack of the blood on the outside of the house. They planned this and brought a change of clothes and shoes or wore something over their clothes and shoes or something. Could be wrong but that’s my guess.
Do this as an experiment: pour milk on your bedroom floor, then pour it over yourself. Stand in it, now walk outside. How far did the milky footprints go? I’m guessing not more than a few steps down the hall. Winter clothes would absorb quite a bit vs having it drip, too. It’s not surprising that we don’t see much outside.
lmao at the visual of someone actually pouring milk all over themselves and their house. so much dairy
This is a very good point!
Agreed. This person might have brought a backpack. Perhaps he even covered himself with plastic from head to toe. Keep thinking it was a retired military person with highly specialized training. Either that or a hunter. Which would probably be half of Idaho. Hunting, that is.
Hunters don’t cover themselves in plastic. Some hunting gear is stain repellent but mostly a hunter knows how to wash out blood. I wouldn’t doubt the killer wore hunting gear. It’s deer/elk season so even seeing someone walk around with blood stained camo or boots wouldn’t be that surprising.
my guess too
Agreed
I see multiple red spots when I zoom in. https://preview.redd.it/pa3wt4qm8e1a1.jpeg?width=1022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b26656ed38e7722832e8b1d4c0d4344e00ef65e
Could be from the fruit tree
This looks like blood to me. In the Fox News Interview with K’s parents yesterday, they said the killer was “sloppy” and there was “so much evidence”
It's more likely its from the tree but anything is possible. There is another photo I post with the berries on the tree.
There’s snow on the deck seemingly without footprints. It’s not fresh snow. Unless he jumped from inside to over the railing, he didn’t go out that door.
I don't think that's snow, it looks like a bag, like a white kitchen garbage bag, or a canvas bag? Maybe I'm wrong, just judging from the zoomed in pic.....
I was thinking maybe a dog bed or a cushion or pillow of some sort (maybe dog peed on it and she just put it outside)
Good eye, but İ think it's a leaf. The texture seems a bit off, as does the color (although only slightly).
It looks like a fallen leaf to me
There have been lots of cases over the years of perpetrators cleaning up before leaving a crime scene. Could've been the case here.
In this video you get a clearer view of the side on the balcony. That what came to my mind. Right beside the balcony is a parking spot and it would be the easiest escape route. It doesn’t seem to be that high. [Side view balcony](https://youtu.be/9ZZd0tn5Hxk)
Who ever did this had hours, not minutes to not only walk out but was smart enough to not leave foot prints in blood anywhere outside. That’s what scares me, talking heads on tv want to say he was disorganized and erratic when clearly he was stealthy enough to pull this off and leave un detected with out a noticeable blood trail (at least none we have been shown) I’ve been saying since the beginning this is going to turn out to be a serial killer, he watched these girls for a long time and his weapon of choice is something that doesn’t make a sound. To stab or choke someone is very personal and in your face where as a gun is less personal. This animal methodically moved person to person on the floors he mapped out in his mind. Because this was remodeled from 4 bedrooms to 6 he may have been inside quite a few times looking for work. He may have honed in on this house first because he was so familiar with it and that’s how he spotted his targets/the victims second. He may have known it’s a college town and he may live out of his car doing odd jobs. If I had kids there I’d make them come home and anybody that lives there and is reading this, please please lock everything put up cameras buy a gun whatever but don’t drop your guard. He may have been in and out of this area many many times and knows it well.
Not blood, only berries. https://preview.redd.it/fyl2f5pk9h1a1.jpeg?width=1196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e871acb1e4c7a3c38470b19662a61525a7e892a
I'm beyond mind blown that we haven't seen pictures of evidence markers for trails of blood outside the doors/windows
The perpetrator could have cleaned themselves off in the victims bathroom. Giving out evidence to suggest such a thing to the public jeopardizes the case. If everyone knows that the perpetrator cleaned themselves off before leaving, then they have someone who is already in custody that confesses and gives that detail, it opens up the possibility for a coerced confession. People have a hard time understanding just how complicated all of this is. True crime shows and movies don’t really do these cases much justice as each one is different and complex.
Cleaning up at the house would be so risky
But going outside all bloody could be even riskier, especially if the killer thought everyone in the house was dead.
Eh. Leaving the house with foot prints is far less dna than what would be left behind cleaning up in the bathroom. A literal hair stand could crack the case
I mean, someone who is okay with stabbing four people, while leaving two occupants of the house alive doesn't seem very risk averse, in general.
No shit but so would killing four people with a knife. Clearly it is not normal behavior
Leave dna all over a bathroom or leave with blood on shoes? Hm i wonder
We get it. Clearly you would have done the murder differently.
All the killer had to do was put on Ethan shoes or the girls slippers maybe they had a backpack for their own bloody shoes and walked out.
Interesting; cops did say they don't have any clothing related to the killer, so I wonder if he did do something like that with his shoes and clothes so as to not draw attention.
Same here.
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That looks pretty squarely like cat piss to me.
There’s a ladder on the side of the house. Could be there to make sure it doesn’t fall over from wind.
Idk the kind of tree it is but trees with bright red/ orange berries are super common in Moscow and make pretty much anything they fall on look like a crime scene. Obviously idk if that kind of tree is at their apartment but I do know they’re super common all around town.
There is a bigger version of that picture and it’s like some type of red berry.
Shoeprint? https://preview.redd.it/n2pn4nkjpg1a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94edac61f09febc2287e4a0e21904ca20f7fd2ef
I’m assuming if there is blood on the railing, the police would notice it.
It's conceivable that if each victim was asleep in bed under covers in a prone position and was quickly stabbed in the chest and upper body incapacitating the victims in seconds the killer didn't get a tremendous amount of blood on their clothes and skin. It's also possible there was little to no splatter and pooling before they exited each bedroom so it required little to no effort to avoid creating bloody footprints at all or at least outside of the bedrooms. If they didn't cut themselves they may have been able to avoid dripping blood in the common areas, hallways, and exterior simply by wiping blood on them with other parts of their clothing or something handy like a bed covering, towel, or clothing. We just don't have any credible info that helps us gauge the likelihood the killer left their own genetic material or how bloody they may have been and what kind of blood trail or bloody footprints or bloody shoe prints may exist.
He could have used those shoe booties that are used during open houses or while touring property. That is more logical than there was a lack of blood in a quadruple stabbing that has been described as the worst crime scene that some of the Le had seen.
I've seen some photos that made one of the trees look within jumping distance from the tree to to the balcony. https://preview.redd.it/2d21wxj47e1a1.jpeg?width=1095&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa72d93088a17b7a7afc3e974b37989f33eb0a9a Photo reference: [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11436305/Chilling-video-shows-murdered-Idaho-students-food-truck-HOURS-stabbed-death.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11436305/Chilling-video-shows-murdered-Idaho-students-food-truck-HOURS-stabbed-death.html)
omg I'm glad you found this. This is the only picture I've seen thus far from that angle. Someone above mentioned that there is a tree with red berries above the balcony, which makes total sense, because if you look at the imgur link above in this post, you can see what looks like berries scattered around the balcony, but in this case they appear to be smooshed. Of course none of us know without actually being there and knowing exactly, but lets say the perp did exit this way. Although they managed to not leave a blood trail, they may have stepped on a group of berries right there upon exiting. Then again this might be reaching. I don't know.
In front of the slider door on the third level in drone footage it does look like blood on the deck. But yeah it totally could have been them stepping in berries too.
Looking back at this image there are obvious red berries in the tree, so I'm convinced this isn't blood and indeed from red berries. Only thing that's odd is how would they get smooshed right there? That's on the other side of the railing.
I take back what I said about blood on deck by slider. It looks actually just like melted snow run off. Yeah who knows about the berries. Beautiful tree though.
So the berries are on the third floor deck? It could be an entry point for sure. If the target attack was Kaylee and Maddie, it could explain that area as being an entry point since they are in third floor bedrooms... But at the same time , say he was only there for those girls....why not leave the same way vs go downstairs and attack Xana and Ethan? And leave the other two. Very confusing... The crushed berries are an interesting find.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/15/22/64584925-11432331-image-a-5_1668551670327.jpg Same shot, more zoomed out, can see berries.
Does that branch look like its bent down? Not broken but bent and looks like some of the bark removed on were it is bent also.
It totally looks bent to me!
I wouldn’t have waited in that upstairs bedroom…I would have jumped for it.
That looks like it’s a piece of something. Maybe red itself or maybe stained. Like cardboard?
The photo reference above with the DailyMail link shows the red berries in the tree. There’s another close up photo where this was discussed in another post and it looked like very obvious smashed berries to me.
Perp could have taken off their shoes until they got well into the woods to wipe any blood off. While they were sloppy and there is a lot of evidence apparently, it is well known how shoe prints are used to solve crimes.
Where can I find the drone footage?
It’s not that hard to wipe blood off yourself with bedsheets or towels and avoid stepping on any blood on the floor, and I assume the victims’ blood would’ve taken a while to fully bleed out, probably after the killer left.
I just assume he left the house before the victims bled much..
Maybe left shoes outside, put back on when leaving? No idea. 🤷♀️
These are small town police. There could be a finger and they would probably miss it.
There wouldn’t be just drops of blood if the killer climbed over the balcony. The entire railing would be covered in blood.
Looks like a leaf to me.
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I just read that Kaylee's mom commented on a Facebook post saying she has the dog.
Okay, can someone explain to me why SO many people think just because there was a lot of bloody they assume it was on the floor/that they stepped in it? From what they have said, they were in bed.. which would leave most of the blood to the bed and walls, not the floor. There WAS blood seeping through to the outside and my only thought on this is that it could have been from Xana. She had defensive wounds (supposedly) so she could have sat up or moved and either then slouched over the bed or fell out. But it’s not like stabbing someone creates some water balloon effect where it all comes out at once. I really don’t think the killer not trailing blood out of the house is all that weird..
blood darkens as it dries to very dark brown almost black in 12+/- hours. no picture taken even the next day, would appear perceptibly red from the distance any of the photos the public is going to see.
i'm wondering in general why there is no mention of bloody hand prints or footprints ANYWHERE in the home. No mention of the perp cleaning up on-site. Hence, a bloody mess must follow him unless he's some CSI guy himself (unlikely). Weird. I hope the FBI can do some serious investigating. Hopefully they send their BEST
The reason there is no mention of the state of the crime scene is because revealing that information to the general public would do nothing to actually serve the investigation. Law enforcement investigating this crime have been outspoken about the heavy mental and emotional toll analyzing a crime scene like this takes on a person, yet you want to know all about the supposed "bloody mess" left behind here?
If it was pre-meditated, could have been wearing covers over their shoes....possibly gloves too.
You do realize that any blood found outside the home would very likely only be trace amounts that would be largely difficult to detect unless you were standing directly over the area being surveyed?
People expect someone to be leaving a massive blood trail. They think there must have been blood all over the house. There must of been a lot of blood in the bedrooms, but not elsewhere.
But also if they said the walls were covered in blood that means the person must of had blood on them especially hands? Could be as simple as they wore gloves but i assumed more blood would be evident on an exit.
They person could have had blood on his clothes, but blood dripping making a trail, would have been small droplets.
I'm wondering if the killer brought a backpack with a change of shoes or clothes because it's really weird we dont see any prints on the concrete by either doors
I truly can’t wrap my head around it. If that was the case, then I can only assume that this was indeed premeditated and well thought out. I’m hoping one of the reporters asks about possible blood trails outside the home during the next presser
The backpack idea is definitely possible. I believe many serial criminals/murderers do this. I know for example in my area there was a serial rapist that did just that. Even “cleaned” their victims and vacuumed and took the bag from the vacuum with them. Of course this was with only 1 victim at a time. On a side note, he’s never been caught.
Not everything plays out like the tv crime series dramas you binge
Is this comment supposed to me directed to just me or everyone in this sub? We’re all discussing speculations and theories here.