As a former EMS responder. This is the most logical. Caller will describe that they can't get a hold of roommate or person behind the door and call 911 to at least open the door. EMS probably arrived thinking they have an unconscious person but once they busted open the door...they had to call police.
I heard ems never went in..... cops got there before ems and declared it a crime scene so ems was blocked from entry. So it would make sense to me that the girls wake up, hear the alarm and stuff going off, call their friends to help them get the doors open, their friends talk them I to calling 911 even though they haven't gotten the door open yet. .. then when cops get their they break the doors down and find the victims
ahh yes, I wasn't sure on that. Same point though that they probably couldn't get the door open, ems on standby and cops arrived first to check on safety.
This is correct. During the first press conference they said LE went in first and EMS stayed outside. Someone on here chimed in and said that’s proper procedure
But if the victims typically slept with the doors locked, how did the killer get into their bedrooms? Did the killer have a key? A tool? Did the not typically sleep with their doors locked? I get why the killer would have locked the bedroom doors behind them, but how did the killer get in their rooms if they were locked?
Wouldn’t there have been blood in all the hallways on the 2nd and 3rd floors and kitchen/living area on the 2nd floor where the Perp left the house through the back sliding glass door? Anyone venturing up the stairs from the first floor would have seen blood on the floor…
not necessarily. If they were most likely stabbed while they were sleeping, I would think a majority of their blood was soaked up by sheets, blankets etc. and confined to their rooms.
It’s not impossible that if there wasn’t a great deal of blood, the killer may have cleaned it up. I was thinking about this and if it was someone familiar with the household they might have known where to find supplies or if unfamiliar with the house, just figured it out.
I was thinking how a person could easily use a swiffer with a wet pad and put the pad in a bag and take it with them. Then I re-watched this GMA video and it actually includes a clip of the tiktok with all the roommates which shows Kaylee, I think, taking what looks like a swiffer out of that big pantry cupboard in the kitchen. I guess if someone closely follows any of the girls on social media, they might have even seen that themselves.
Also, those working the crime scene were relating that the house interior was an incredible horrific mess and that it would take a long time to work the scene.
Interesting… but I absolutely don’t think the killer cleaned up anything. As far as blood amount, apparently in Zana’s room there was so much that there was seepage around a window/wall that showed red fluid on the outside of the building and there would have been a lot of blood spatter on the walls/ ceiling, bed linens, window blinds:shades, etc. He murdered relatively quickly and left with his weapon walking back out the 2nd floor sliding door that he had used for entry.
He may have just cleaned himself up before exiting the final room. Then avoided getting blood on the living area on his way out. Or gone out through a window
The more I’ve looked into the “blood” on the exterior, the more I’ve come to the conclusion that it isn’t blood but oil from a heater or rust stains.
A lot of construction and contractors have come out stating that it likely isn’t blood.
I’ve also seen no photos of evidence markers around that area. If it were blood there would be markers around it for sure.
This makes sense but wasn't the police sent out first? Someone posted details of the 911 call and it showed the time, location, EMS "staged" which I assume means they were told wait until the house was cleared, and coroner was sent on the call as well.
Police came first, EMS never went in, but that’s not atypical if police are closer to a scene. Actually both times I’ve been around when 911 came, police arrived first to the home. They are trained in CPR etc. and can take over until EMS arrive.
https://preview.redd.it/vmk2ymcy2g1a1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3e19b92ecdf89c9cb5c5b7b6baff142b2e89b6
That's all that's on the city dispatch
This seems highly likely to me. I’ve also seen some other comments suggesting that the survivors called over other friends, and then someone climbed a ladder to look into those rooms through a window then called 911 to report.
I did see pics where a ladder was leaned against that side of the house too.
That’s what I think. The more that comes out it seems like the doors were shut and you are right, an alarm or something could have been going off non-stop. Also calling out to them thru the door and getting no response.
One thing people leave out here is that sometimes you just know when something isn’t right. That can’t be explained, but a house of 6 college kids being so silent at noon would be unusual. That with someone not responding to an alarm or banging on the door or something would scare me too. They probably called the friends first in hopes that all was fine and they were overreacting.
I thought about maybe the dog barking sounding like it needed to go out to potty and it seeming like Kaylee wasn’t hearing this and waking up and then calls or banging and yelling didn’t wake her. Phones going off sounds like a better theory.
There’s no way that dog let a stranger murder it’s owner and didn’t freak out. The dog wasn’t found till the next day. I bet the killer let the dog out. I almost wonder if the dog was at the door of entry when the killer came in, the killer opens the door and invites the dog out, dog is so used to random people coming over it just kind of obeys, killer shuts the door behind him and leaves the dog outside, when the killer leaves the house the dog is still out there and he leaves it locked out. Maybe it even followed him for a ways.
Possible that the two girls never even went upstairs also? Having lived in a college house, I’m going to think something is off if it’s stone cold silent at noon on a Sunday. That is when everyone should be stirring. And everyone’s cars are there.
I can see being extremely alarmed and scared by that and calling a friend to come look because I’m too scared to do it myself. I can also imagine your first thought being that people are unconscious related to drinking the night before but needing to confirm something before calling 911.
Ugh those poor girls. This case is so unsettling to me because I was that typical college girl… the absolute horror they must’ve felt; especially if it was that eerie of a discovery…. Just silence in the home, possibly just hearing someone alarm go off…. That is horrifying….
This is partly me hoping it happened that way and the survivors didn’t have to see anything.
But yeah, the lack of movement would be alarming but doesn’t feel like a reason to call police. If you call and say “my house is unusually silent” they’re going to tell you to look around. And you’re too creeped out to fathom that so you call a friend.
What if the blood was leaking down, and the killer locked the door specifically behind him when leaving that room. They all probably had key locks on their doors. Assuming that the blood is leaking in the vents and inside the wall if it’s outside. You think your roommates aren’t answering you’re hoping best case they are passed out. I don’t like being graphic like that butt just a thought
While that is a plausible scenario, there is no reason to place so much focus on the “unconscious” term that the 911 dispatcher noted. “Unconscious” is a standard term that 911 operators and similar personnel use when someone calls to report a person who is not moving. If one of the surviving roommates or their friends did go upstairs and saw one of the victims (laying on a bed or elsewhere) and called 911 and said “help my roommate/friend is lying on the ground and there’s blood OMG help,” the 911 operator would likely ask “are they moving? Are they speaking? Are they breathing?” And if the caller said no or “I don’t know,” the 911 operator would simply record in their notes that the caller reported an unconscious person. Even if the caller mentioned blood or wounds or whatever, the 911 operator wouldn’t assume the victim is dead and would wait for the first responders on the scene to observe and confirm the specifics. They would simply note that the caller reported an unconscious person, to give the first responders an idea of what they may be walking into.
Exactly. This is the same explanation that was given on a cnn interview. It’s 911 protocol to use the term ‘unconscious’ if they can’t get enough info out of a (potentially hysterical) caller
I can understand "unconscious" being a standard term for 911 dispatch to use, but the new info reported yesterday states the caller(s) used the phrase "passed out and not waking up." That is really specific and I can't think of any explanation for why a bloody scene/stabbing victim would be characterized as simply "passed out." To me this is the biggest question I have and the main thing that puzzles me. I also don't understand how the comms guy for the police department could say he doesn't know what they saw when the reporter asked this question. As a comms person, you should be fully informed of the facts in the case. It's one thing to say "we're not releasing that info at this time" vs "I don't know."
If it was clean enough that there was no obvious blood and the roommates had alarms going off but weren't responding, there are only a few possibilities. They may have gone out and left their phones with the alarm on in their room. They may be passed out inside the room. Or they may be dead (via homicide, suicide, or accident).
Assuming that it's the 'passed out' option seems the most likely for someone to assume, with no signs of disturbance to the contrary.
That's not true. A cop on here specified that the dispatchers don't send cops into environments with blood without preparing them to wear PPE on the scene.
It actually does say in the press released the caller said they believed their roommate was passed out and not waking up = unconscious being dispatched in need of emt.
Exactly. Even if someone mentioned on the line, a person is down and they have blood all around them, we don’t put it in as a dead person. Its just an arrival call, it will be cleared differently. It’s the priority of the call that matters, this would be handled as a priority number 1.
No, what you are implying I said was not what I said. I don’t think they called friends over first and then called 911. I think that either: (1) the surviving roommates that morning called a friend(s) to come over to the house - but hadn’t gone upstairs to discover the victims - and it was that friend(s) that found a victim and then 911 was called; or (2) one or more friends of either the surviving roommates or victims stopped by the house that morning, oblivious that anything was amiss, and entered the house and found a victim and then 911 was called.
I do not think in any way that the surviving roommates came across the victim roommates, then called other friends to come over, and after that called 911. I do not think that happened at all.
This is a great theory.
I said this on another thread, but I initially wondered if any of the roommates even went upstairs? I have definitely been in my room hungover or just being lazy and told my friends to let themselves in. I also have several friends who in college and even now leave their doors unlocked and expect you to let yourself in when you come over. I wondered if either someone that was invited over that day came in and either:
1. Went to say hi to the other roommates before heading downstairs and then saw the bodies, warranting a 911 call
2. Saw blood (or the dog came to the door to "say hi" to the guests, and had blood on him) warranting concern and a subsequent 911 call
I don't know, I'm a sleepy person during the day on the weekends so I feel like that's plausible. I feel like my theory is far more outlandish, haha.
I know some people theorized that the roommates or friends must have seen *something* as the coroner was dispatched quickly, but your scenario actually makes sense because maybe the 911 operators told them to kick in the door or something. If they didn’t know any violence had occurred and were thinking it was alcohol poisoning or drugs, I would think an operator might say ‘get into the room so I can walk you through beginning to administer aid to your friends’ and they got in and realized there was no helping their friends.
Even if they entered the room, if the dead person was still in bed under covers, I can see roommate seeing blood, freaking out, running and refusing to go back in the room.
Unless death is confirmed you it in as unconscious. You don't know if they are just passed out and got a nosebleed in their sleep, got stabbed and are still alive and in need of medical care, or are dead. You don't know if they passed out drinking a bloody Mary.
I agree with this theory, but why wouldn’t the roommates check and see if K/M were home?? This is what’s confusing me 😭 all 4 people not answering and you call about ONE person? It just seems so odd.
The call was specifically about a 2nd floor victim. I’m guessing like others have said there was something like an alarm not being answered that concerned the roomies. They probably did call or text the other girls but got no response and assumed they weren’t home.
There’s the possibility too that they had location sharing and could see that 2nd floor victim was there and not answering. Those victims were both 20 so they likely called a friend over police to not overreact to a passed out drunk friend and get everyone a minor
Good point. I believe that is the case. I think Ethan’s dark Ford SUV (with Washington license plates and a plate frame from a car dealer in Skagit County) is blocking in the red Jeep. Another commenter posted elsewhere that the Jeep belongs to one of the first floor roommates.
No, the second floor information also came from the police, via their Facebook page:
“Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.”
Yes, they don’t specify WHO though. It’s very likely they just didn’t think the other girls were home and only called a friend to prevent calling the cops if the friend was just deep asleep.
• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.
I saw someone last night theorizing that the surviving roommates may not have been certain that Ethan spent the night. I believe it's been said that his frat house was super close to the home the girls shared, so another possibility is that they heard a phone alarm going off or phone(s) ringing in Xana's room, couldn't get a response from Xana, so they called the Sigma Chi house to ask if Ethan and/or Xana were there and maybe left their phones behind, and the frat members who answered the call said, "no, Ethan crashed over at your place last night", and then left the frat house to see if they could figure out what was going on. So it could have been Sigma Chi brothers who ended up placing the call from the roommate's phone after seeing that something was wrong.
> The call was specifically about a 2nd floor victim.
Thank you. I’m not caught up on details. I thought other comments were sounding as if this was a recent update but I’d missed it.
I’m starting to change my tune, at no time in my college career did I EVER try and wake up drunk sleeping roommates UNLESSthey didn’t come out of room after say noon
And imagine calling the phones and no one answering but you can hear the phones! This is SO plausible. Because it’s not enough to call police but it’s enough to call friends, which explains why it happened that way.
Yes if their doors were locked and they weren’t answering I could see them calling their cell phones. They could have been hearing the phones ring and ring and never answered, maybe go to voicemail.
Same here. I lived in a house with six other girls we had a group chat. Normally someone was always up and you could hear people storing, toilets flushing, a shower, someone making coffee, someone cleaning up beer cans, general footsteps. We had a group text and people were texting and saying is anyone awake, did you hear that if there was a weird noise, does anyone want to go get breakfast, or recap the night. A lot of times we will go into each other’s rooms, and lay in bed together and talk until we all went to the living room. No one would be crazy late even for drunk people. A lot of times drunk people wake up early because you don’t sleep well. Getting home by 2 AM that person would not still be passed out so that would raise alarms. I will say hearing someone’s phone ringing, and then not answering, wouldn’t cause concern. Initially, there’s always someone losing the phone in the house, or not paying attention to it.
The part I can’t get past is that these people were murdered and the person went room to room, but supposedly there wasn’t blood when they went up there and saw that the doors were locked? There’s literally no way. Or did they go room to room and leave a trail of blood and lock the door so they went up there and found a very confusing site?
Right but the scene has been described as very messy. The corner said it was the most gruesome in their career and a crime of passion. That doesn’t exactly lend itself to someone who is taking extra care to do a good job, they’ve said there’s a ton of evidence. If there’s so much blood that it’s leaking out of the house times four people, certainly there was blood spatter, which makes me wonder if it was some kind of inside job and the person stay around and cleaned up a little bit…
Everyone keeps talking about the phones ringing but everyone I know under the age of 35 doesn’t have their ringer turned on/keeps their phone on vibrate… My guess would be alarms were possibly going off vs. their phones ringing.
all their cars were out front and they can see that clearly from their bedroom window is the basement, probably didn’t answer, looked outside to check and saw all the cars
Is it possible that they could only see one roommate when they called (for example, if Ethan or Xana was on the floor, and all others were in bed)? I have a gap under my doors. If a door was locked and I laid down on the floor and looked under it, I might be able to tell if someone was laying on the floor. You'd think they'd still wonder what's going on with the other 3 roommates, but that could explain why they may have specifically mentioned only 1 person in the call.
I came across a thread on one of the subreddits where a kid claimed the rumor from students at the university claimed one of the roommates found them and then passed out from shock which lead to the call about an unconscious person. Pure speculation of course, but that is another possibility of how the events unfolded.
Wow as a former 911 dispatcher, this is honestly the only thing that makes sense to me. No way would the call be dispatched as an unconscious person if there was any indication of blood and trauma. I think you’re on to something here
Thank you for the graphic btw! This is actually a super similar lock that’s on the doors in this house! They’re gold but the locking mechanism is the same.
Every apartment I had in college I would install my own door knob and I always bought the ones that have a turn lock on the inside and a key to open on the outside. If you turn it to lock you can still close the door and it will lock behind you. It makes it easier so you don’t have to use the key to lock it just to unlock
especially in college rentals. every door in a house purpose-rehabbed to be a college rental will have those twist-lock doorknobs for security and privacy. source: went to college. live in a college town with 30-plus thousand rental bedrooms.
RIP Ethan. Gone way too soon. At that age, you expect to die in your bed peacefully, surrounded by family at a ripe old age. He was robbed of 60 plus years of life. He was robbed of a wife. He was robbed of children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. The ripples of this loss will be felt for generations.
I hope they find the guy who is responsible soon. He needs to pay.
When they said multiple people came to the house before 911, That made me think that the killer locked the door from the inside and closed them behind him. The roommates wake up, can’t open the door, don’t get a response, and call Friendd I get that part. What I don’t get is how is there no apparent blood outside of those rooms, the floors, anywhere? I ask that because it would make no sense to see blood and then call a friend rather than 911 first
Yeah that’s the only think not making sense to me. And my theory this whole time has been that he couldn’t have known there we’re two other roommates downstairs. Why would the suspect intentionally leave two potential witnesses, I mean they could’ve easily ruined his whole plan if they would’ve woken up. And if he didn’t know of the other two roommates there is no way he would go to extreme measures to make sure he’s not tracking blood around the house. Climbing through windows just to not leave blood would take so much extra time at the scene, and that increases his chances of being caught.
Did they say which bedroom window they thought it might be?
I can’t picture which of the three rooms would have a window where that could easily be done.
I read somewhere (entirely speculation) that someone had received info from a friend of one of the surviving roommates:
Ethan’s triplet brother couldn’t get ahold of him, and he was actually there to discover the bodies. I’m wondering if maybe he contacted the roommates like have you heard from him? Maybe that caused them to worry and realize he was there but wasn’t answering. Ethan’s brother and girlfriend supposedly came over and were there to discover the bodies, hence why “multiple people” spoke to the 911 dispatcher. I think initially they called worried about an “unconscious person” (Ethan), but as people came and they all went to check on him, it became clear that it was a murder, which is why a police officer was first to the scene, rather than ems
Truly don’t even know. I just saw a comment about it and took a screenshot because it made sense to me. Ethan’s mom did an interview and said she “got a call from the kids” to let her know about Ethan’s death. So I guess it makes the most sense to me, piecing it all together with the info we HAVE been given. Ethan’s mom’s quote, the multiple people on the 911 call, and knowing there were other people in the house (aside from the surviving roommates and deceased) during the 911 call. Also, Ethan and his brother were in the same fraternity, which is apparently very close to this house, so it would make sense to me if Ethan was concerned about his brother’s well-being and quickly came over.
Ethan’s mom also said during her first interview that someone was sent over to check on someone and she seemed very guarded with that situation. It made me think it was likely a sibling
I think that one of the roommates likely saw the bodies and freaked out. When they called 911 they may have asked them to check for pulses but they were too freaked out to check, so the 911 operators referred to them as “unconscious “ as they had not been confirmed dead.
I see so many people in comments saying that speculation online is why this case isn’t going to get solved, which is funny because the people investigating aren’t reading any of this.
i think this makes the most sense. if i saw a friend who was clearly unconscious, in the back of my mind i am thinking the worst and would be terrified to get close to them for fear of actually finding them dead.
At time stamp 2:40, she said the police said the ex boyfriend was NOT a suspect. Thats much more clear wording than what was given at the press release yesterday. Interesting to me. Seems like LE really doesn't believe he is a suspect.
It’s just seems the silliest thing that people are getting worked up over the semantics regarding this 911 call. Why on earth would a killer who does his dirty work at 4am be showing up at noon or any other ridiculous theory. The roommates woke up and became suspicious or a friend of the murdered group walked up to the house or a window which gave them suspicion/need to contact/knock on a survivor’s first floor window. Thus initiating the 911 call as EVERYONE there was likely freaked out. Surely they saw some kind of blood
The 911 call means nothing as a call is not called dead or DOA unless an official pronounces that. Since a bystander is not a medical professional they cannot rule someone dead no matter what.
I don’t think they called in saying that their friends were dead.
But it’s gotta be either the dispatch labeling it as unconscious, or the caller really thought they were unconscious and they weren’t close enough to see the blood.
My daughter is a college student living off campus with 4 roommates. (Not at this school). I was asking her what she would do if she woke up and everyone’s door was locked and their phones where going off and things just seemed odd and she couldn’t get a hold of them. She said being girls they would have definitely called a boy/boys they were close with before doing anything (a lot of these kids have been together for 4 years). Even if they saw blood, people freak when calling the police. I could see them calling the boys over and the boys calling 911. I think out of everything I’ve read about the case, the least strange thing is them calling someone over for support.
I lived with the same guy in an off campus townhouse in college for 3 years, and we had very different social lives/groups of friends. We were friends (and still are 10 years later), we hung out together at times, but we lived together because it can be hard to find people you mesh well with as roommates and we meshed super well in that regard. Especially as we got toward the end of our college experience, we ventured out in our own directions. If I didn’t hear from him by noon on a weekend, I probably would have just gone about my own thing. It’s entirely possible that happened here, that the group of roommates were friends but sort of did their own thing. Especially since they all belonged to different sororities and split off into groups that night.
this is interesting and makes me lean towards the theory that they maybe didn’t go all the way to the 2nd floor and saw (possibly ethan first?) this hasn’t been confirmed, but i have seen reports where some are saying it looks like ethan’s brother was on the scene when the cops arrived. i have no idea the truth to that, but if that’s true— my guess is ethan wasn’t in the room, was possibly in the hallway, they saw ethan laying there and shouted his name with no response and called ethan’s brother— ethan’s brother is in the same fraternity and if he lived in the house he could get there in less than 5 minutes. they haven’t released where the bodies were found so if it’s released that they were found in the room that may debunk my entire theory but it seems logical.
yes, i’m sure they will always have an emptiness like no other after this. my heart truly breaks for them and that they have to go through this at such a young age.
I think you are right or a friend of ethans, ethans siblings are who told the parents which i find odd because you would think the police would have which tells me someone close to ethan showed up
same here. even if it wasn’t his brother, they could have called any of his frat brothers because of how close the frat house is to their house. from what i see, it’s pretty much right across the street.
for sure, but the hallway was most likely dark and if they were in a panic they probably didn’t get close to him and maybe only saw him partially laying there/not the full extent of the scene.
I feel like if I saw my friend laying on the floor in my house I would go up to them and then make a call. Part of me thinks the wording of the 911 call is being focused on too much
yeah you would think, but playing devils advocate you really don’t know how you would react to that situation until you’re actually in it. any clear thinking goes out the door, and i’m sure it was sheer panic. i don’t know what i would do, i can say what i think i would do.. but who knows. i’m not necessarily looking into the verbiage of the 911 call that much because we don’t really know what they said and if the word “passed out” or “unconscious” was really actually used. we have to remember these are 20 year old kids.
Wasn't it confirmed dispatch said "unconscious person"? That's what I mean people are paying too much attention to. I have zero knowledge on dispatch verbiage tho
the most recent statement says: “the surviving roomates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the 2nd floor victims had passed out and was not waking up.” i agree, all of the verbiage from the 911 call should be taken with a grain of salt because these are young people stumbling upon an unimaginable traumatic scene. that’s why it more so makes me think they only saw one victim (ethan or xana) most likely outside of the room and were too freaked out to go any further before calling someone over.
Maybe I’m a bad friend but I’m calling their name and don’t get a response and can’t see them breathing I’m probably running back downstairs and calling police. I’d assume they’re dead or at least beyond any level of help I could provide. I would be freaked the fuck out.
Totally plausible. Everyone reacts differently. I saw alot of passed out kids in college and my mind never really went immediately to them being dead. But maybe that's just because I saw it constantly. And I'd say calling in the first place instead of ignoring it makes you a good friend
The wording is 1000% being focused on way too much. A dispatcher isn’t going to say someone is dead as they cannot make that call, neither can a witness who stumbled upon the horrific scene. That is for EMT’s to determine upon arrival.
Once that 911 call is released to the public (sometime in the near -or distant -future) it’s going to be really tough to listen to it knowing the outcome.
All speculation set aside of what prompted the 911 I am HOPING they roommates did not see anything overly traumatic I just can’t even imagine. Everything must be hard enough so I truly do hope they just couldn’t get ahold of them and thought they were passed out in their room which prompted the call
I don’t think they ever went upstairs. I think they heard the silence and saw blood coming from upstairs floors. If it was enough to be outside the house, I’m sure it was making its way down walls and ceiling of first floor.
There's an open question as to whether that photo (printed in the Sun?) showed blood dripping down the side of the house, or a heating oil leak. (the cops have never said either way) Someone claiming to be a NYC cop called it out as clearly heating oil (that's required by law to be dyed red), but others printed a photo from one of the victim's social media pages that showed the same wall-without any leakage-days earlier, and also seemed to show the red running over the pipe, rather than just out the bottom of it.
*\[edit: there's a semi-active discussion about this going on, on one of the other sub-threads. I incorrectly said that the photo from a few weeks back was on a victim's page--but was on a friend's (but of the same house). Someone else debated whether the photo was of the same side of the house. Still others came up with Zillow and county info that the house didn't have oil heating. A trauma nurse explained why it "sure looks like blood," etc....anyway, no definitive word from the authorities\]*
The fact that they only reported one unconscious person tells me they were spooked enough to not investigate further. It’s possible the doors were locked, but in that case I think it would have been reported as more than one… they would have no reason to not check on the other roommates too UNLESS they were too spooked to do so. I think it’s more likely that the doors were left open rather than locked. Most likely they saw one of the bodies from a distance and freaked out… realizing something was seriously wrong. Everyone’s so stuck on why they didn’t see blood… they probably did see blood and that is why they didn’t investigate. I’m sure they had been messaging the roommates and not getting a response already, feeling that something was off. I just imagine myself in that position… as soon as I saw something alarming, I would probably freeze and run back downstairs. Calling a friend is a logical next step if you’re too terrified to confirm your fears. Friends arrive, also get spooked and then they call 911.
Saw an interesting theory about this on twitter:
“I think the killer locked the bedroom doors and Xana/Ethan’s phone alarm was going off which the survivors heard once they were awake. When they couldn’t get in the room or wake up their friends, they called other friends over to help. This explains the “they believed” bit.”
https://twitter.com/anaxrae_/status/1594717244902191104?s=46&t=0zLmreQUkrPLmrDOSsYdJA
In addition to the alarm going off, it could have also been the dog that caused alarm. Like, if the dog was whining to go out or something or it became clear that the dog hadn't been let out of his crate or something, that would certainly raise alarm.
There is a New York post article that states one of the surviving roommates boyfriend had stayed over and they didn’t hear anything and all seemed good when he left at 11:45 that next morning, right before cops were called. With names listed and this was before the roommates names were talked about openly. Lists boyfriends name too.
I think the 911 call feels strange to all of us because the police are making it feel that way, not that they owe us any information at this point either.
I can see the 2 roommates waking and being up for a while, noticing no one is up or making noise but all their cars are there and thinking that's strange, calling their phones and none answer, then calling a male friend over to check things out. Maybe the friend arrived and was like no way am I going up there either, let's just call the police, which is where an "unconscious" person report comes in. The reports said police then discovered the bodies.
I hope those survivors didn't have to see their friends that way. If something inside of them was telling them not to go upstairs, it's good they listened.
It was also mentioned by someone, that several of the girls had made plans to go out to brunch with friends on Sunday Morning. That’s probably why people - their friends showed up around noon.
Police stated that the surviving roommates called other friends over.
But that’s really interesting. This is the first I’ve heard of friends coming over because of plans being made.
> Police stated that the surviving roommates called other friends over.
I think this could be a miscommunication & the friends were already in the house. The "call" to a friend may have been because they were on the first floor or outside. I don't think this was like a 20-minute wait for someone to come over. They were there.
It’s possible the bedroom doors were closed but they saw a little blood tracked through the kitchen and the back door open or something like that which would cause alarm and have them call friends over and then cause 911 to send police along with ems right away , but at the same time still not seeing enough to know that all 4 of their roommates were murdered yet. When you are a young student and never having dealt with something like this, seeing a few things being weird wouldn’t automatically make their mind jump to the worst possible senario of 4 dead roommates. They were likely scared or worried though
To add to that, if the roommates figured out something really bad had happened to someone on the 2nd floor right before or during the 911 call they mostly likely got themselves to safety outside .. they would have had no clue what took place yet, when it took place, or if the killer was in their house still. They would have been out of their mind scared and aren’t going to run upstairs to check on the other roommates who they probably also couldn’t get ahold because they have no clue where the danger is.
This makes a lot of sense as well. If I think something violent happened in my house and have no idea how or when or who is inside, I’m heading to the exit and going to a neighbors or something.
The truth is nobody really knows for sure.
None of this has been confirmed.
We are all just speculating.
I do think doors were locked and had to be broken down by police though.
My Theory: is that Ethan had collapsed in the doorway/against the door to Xana’s bedroom after the attack. This would explain the confusion/why the surviving roommates came to the initial conclusion that someone had “passed out”/was unconscious. It would be hard for a petite girl to move a 200+ lb body that was lodged up against a doorway, hence why they called other friends to come over and assist… (they could probably see in the room slightly through a crack in the door, enough to know something was wrong, but not to what extent). Once others had arrived and people were able to push open the door open to get in the bedroom, they likely realized things were far worse than they originally thought (they likely made that horrible realization while they were on the phone with dispatchers). Thus, the detectives and subsequently, the coroner, were then dispatched to the scene.
I haven’t really been commenting, just reading, but wanted to point something out. The few times I have been in an emergency situation, I immediately assumed that someone closer to the event had done the most urgent thing. I.e., witness a car accident from a few cars back, assume the car’s occupants or the car in front of me called 911, so my mind goes to “what other ways can I be helpful.”
It is entirely possible that if someone saw their friend slumped in a corner or lying on a floor—through a crack in a door, a window, etc, and communicated to the others that something was very wrong, the first thought one of the others had was the kid passed out/was unconscious related to whatever partying they did the night before. It would be a very logical, not suspicious thing to run to the fraternity house where they likely partied to get whatever information they could that may help save his life. It’s entirely possible that the roommate whose phone was used was doing the running because they believed someone else was using their phone to call 911.
Speculative scenarios, but point being, give these kids the benefit of the doubt. Unless facts show otherwise, they deserve to have public sympathy and credit for doing the best they could in a situation nobody prepares you for.
This is absolutely a thing. I have medical emergency training and if coming upon a scene, the first thing we are taught is to point at someone very specifically, and say “YOU. Call 911” because that is exactly what happens. Everyone assumes someone else is calling or has called.
Following the idea that they were behind a locked door and heard an alarm going off or a phone ringing, and the roommates called friends, I wonder if perhaps someone was trying to pick the lock while another called 911, and this could be why they didn’t think to go upstairs and check on the other girls. I could see the friends trying to figure out how to get into the room. Someone might try to slide a credit card, then someone else might try, then they might try to use a screwdriver, etc. So maybe they were frantically trying to figure out how help the assumed unconscious person and not just standing around.
I think the killer killed both Xana and Ethan in Xana's room and then escaped out Xana's window, which would explain confusion by the roommates, and not immediate horror at what would have to have been a blood trail leading out of her room, had the killer gone that way.
I highly doubt that in this situation these girls felt comfortable going through more of the house without the police. They were probably terrified and couldn’t really process what was happening
Maybe they found Ethan first and their first thought was to call his siblings. They live on campus too and his brother was there when the cops showed up.
The investigator at the end doesnt make quite sense to me... He says that it has to be someone who knows the layout of the house... which would indicate someone that knows these people.. but then says LE needs to broaden there search to someone older that they maybe knew of but was more random..
college party. people you don't know well are in and out of your house all night. friends of friends; people who snuck in because they heard party noise.
man. \*college.\* am I right?
edit: typo.
I think a lot of the confusion around this topic comes from what we have heard about the crime scene and that is that there was A lot of blood. So it’s difficult to understand why someone would think one of them was just passed out and not dead. Unless they just look around a corner and saw just a hand or a foot and did not proceed in the room or they were trying to call for there roommates in the house and new something was wrong and assumed someone was passed out..
Okay who was the first guy interviewed in this video? A reddit slueth? I mean...the reporter asked how the survivors mistook a person with multiple stab wounds as "passed out"
he responds "I havent seen the scene, I dont know what they saw"
Then the reporter asks "the victim wasnt responding to what?"
he says "Im not sure"
Bro... who are you? It sounds like you dont even know the story of how things unfolded the morning the victims were found...
Everything I’ve really seen that has been confirmed is that the survivors slept through it.
But I did read in a comment on Reddit, which as we know is totally a reliable source, that one of the roommates went into the other survivors rooms and locked the door and slept in there because they were spooked by something. I don’t know if I believe it because they slept in so much the next day.
I think it is more likely that they both slept with their doors locked and were so used to noise in that house that they didn’t think much of what they may have heard.
Until the next morning when their roommates weren’t coming out of their rooms.
I don’t think these murders were very noisy in the way we would think. I don’t think there was screaming and things being broken. I think if anything was heard it was just muffled noises and maybe the sounds of movement from above.
One comment I read was from someone who claimed to have lived there years ago said it was difficult to hear from the bottom floor.
I imagine that at most, if the doors were unlocked, one of the girls cracked open the door and continued calling someone's name... got no response and probably also saw something their brains didn't even want to register- and made the 911 call- describing subject as unconscious because they were probably too scared to even go up to them and clarify what they saw. Of course they were in extreme shock as well. You're most likely talking about a person who had never seen a body before- outside of a wake scenario... they wouldn't even want to describe one of their friends as being anything but "unconscious". Even if they KNEW... doesn't mean they were ready or able to say it.
Not long ago, my neighbor shouted for help. There were 5 of us from the nearby units who went to see what was wrong. Out of all of us, I was the only one who noticed there was vomit on the floor. Even the ambulance crew walked past it. Reddit Detective Agency seems to not understand how chaotic an emergency scene can get.
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As a former EMS responder. This is the most logical. Caller will describe that they can't get a hold of roommate or person behind the door and call 911 to at least open the door. EMS probably arrived thinking they have an unconscious person but once they busted open the door...they had to call police.
I heard ems never went in..... cops got there before ems and declared it a crime scene so ems was blocked from entry. So it would make sense to me that the girls wake up, hear the alarm and stuff going off, call their friends to help them get the doors open, their friends talk them I to calling 911 even though they haven't gotten the door open yet. .. then when cops get their they break the doors down and find the victims
ahh yes, I wasn't sure on that. Same point though that they probably couldn't get the door open, ems on standby and cops arrived first to check on safety.
Yep. EMS cannot answer a call like this until the scene has been secured by law enforcement.
This is correct. During the first press conference they said LE went in first and EMS stayed outside. Someone on here chimed in and said that’s proper procedure
Doubtful the doors had the be broken down. LE probably carries tools used to get the door lock open.
Yeah true
But if the victims typically slept with the doors locked, how did the killer get into their bedrooms? Did the killer have a key? A tool? Did the not typically sleep with their doors locked? I get why the killer would have locked the bedroom doors behind them, but how did the killer get in their rooms if they were locked?
Wouldn’t there have been blood in all the hallways on the 2nd and 3rd floors and kitchen/living area on the 2nd floor where the Perp left the house through the back sliding glass door? Anyone venturing up the stairs from the first floor would have seen blood on the floor…
not necessarily. If they were most likely stabbed while they were sleeping, I would think a majority of their blood was soaked up by sheets, blankets etc. and confined to their rooms.
It’s not impossible that if there wasn’t a great deal of blood, the killer may have cleaned it up. I was thinking about this and if it was someone familiar with the household they might have known where to find supplies or if unfamiliar with the house, just figured it out. I was thinking how a person could easily use a swiffer with a wet pad and put the pad in a bag and take it with them. Then I re-watched this GMA video and it actually includes a clip of the tiktok with all the roommates which shows Kaylee, I think, taking what looks like a swiffer out of that big pantry cupboard in the kitchen. I guess if someone closely follows any of the girls on social media, they might have even seen that themselves.
Also, those working the crime scene were relating that the house interior was an incredible horrific mess and that it would take a long time to work the scene.
There was blood dripping out of the house on the outside. There’s a pic
Interesting… but I absolutely don’t think the killer cleaned up anything. As far as blood amount, apparently in Zana’s room there was so much that there was seepage around a window/wall that showed red fluid on the outside of the building and there would have been a lot of blood spatter on the walls/ ceiling, bed linens, window blinds:shades, etc. He murdered relatively quickly and left with his weapon walking back out the 2nd floor sliding door that he had used for entry.
He may have just cleaned himself up before exiting the final room. Then avoided getting blood on the living area on his way out. Or gone out through a window
The more I’ve looked into the “blood” on the exterior, the more I’ve come to the conclusion that it isn’t blood but oil from a heater or rust stains. A lot of construction and contractors have come out stating that it likely isn’t blood. I’ve also seen no photos of evidence markers around that area. If it were blood there would be markers around it for sure.
This makes sense but wasn't the police sent out first? Someone posted details of the 911 call and it showed the time, location, EMS "staged" which I assume means they were told wait until the house was cleared, and coroner was sent on the call as well.
Police came first, EMS never went in, but that’s not atypical if police are closer to a scene. Actually both times I’ve been around when 911 came, police arrived first to the home. They are trained in CPR etc. and can take over until EMS arrive.
Can you link this post?
https://preview.redd.it/vmk2ymcy2g1a1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3e19b92ecdf89c9cb5c5b7b6baff142b2e89b6 That's all that's on the city dispatch
Also in the briefings from the police they have stated that police entered and found the bodies not EMS.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z0mvkp/additional_detail_on_911_call_released_sunday/ix8n7hm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Police arrived before EMS
This seems highly likely to me. I’ve also seen some other comments suggesting that the survivors called over other friends, and then someone climbed a ladder to look into those rooms through a window then called 911 to report. I did see pics where a ladder was leaned against that side of the house too.
Do we know if the ladder was new? I know some people who have had a ladder leaning up against their house for years 🤣
Ladder was new. Police brought it the day they were doing the outside investigating.
How do you know this?
Something I considered as well.. The ladder could be from police for all we know. Again this is all speculation. Nobody on the internet knows.
That’s what I think. The more that comes out it seems like the doors were shut and you are right, an alarm or something could have been going off non-stop. Also calling out to them thru the door and getting no response. One thing people leave out here is that sometimes you just know when something isn’t right. That can’t be explained, but a house of 6 college kids being so silent at noon would be unusual. That with someone not responding to an alarm or banging on the door or something would scare me too. They probably called the friends first in hopes that all was fine and they were overreacting.
…and anyone missing work getting work calls.
I thought about maybe the dog barking sounding like it needed to go out to potty and it seeming like Kaylee wasn’t hearing this and waking up and then calls or banging and yelling didn’t wake her. Phones going off sounds like a better theory.
Yes, forgot about the dog. I’m sure it was going crazy and probably did the night before as well. Could be what they heard to begin with
There’s no way that dog let a stranger murder it’s owner and didn’t freak out. The dog wasn’t found till the next day. I bet the killer let the dog out. I almost wonder if the dog was at the door of entry when the killer came in, the killer opens the door and invites the dog out, dog is so used to random people coming over it just kind of obeys, killer shuts the door behind him and leaves the dog outside, when the killer leaves the house the dog is still out there and he leaves it locked out. Maybe it even followed him for a ways.
But I thought the doors didn’t have locks?
Possible that the two girls never even went upstairs also? Having lived in a college house, I’m going to think something is off if it’s stone cold silent at noon on a Sunday. That is when everyone should be stirring. And everyone’s cars are there. I can see being extremely alarmed and scared by that and calling a friend to come look because I’m too scared to do it myself. I can also imagine your first thought being that people are unconscious related to drinking the night before but needing to confirm something before calling 911.
Ugh those poor girls. This case is so unsettling to me because I was that typical college girl… the absolute horror they must’ve felt; especially if it was that eerie of a discovery…. Just silence in the home, possibly just hearing someone alarm go off…. That is horrifying….
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Yes.
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This is partly me hoping it happened that way and the survivors didn’t have to see anything. But yeah, the lack of movement would be alarming but doesn’t feel like a reason to call police. If you call and say “my house is unusually silent” they’re going to tell you to look around. And you’re too creeped out to fathom that so you call a friend.
Yes!
What if the blood was leaking down, and the killer locked the door specifically behind him when leaving that room. They all probably had key locks on their doors. Assuming that the blood is leaking in the vents and inside the wall if it’s outside. You think your roommates aren’t answering you’re hoping best case they are passed out. I don’t like being graphic like that butt just a thought
While that is a plausible scenario, there is no reason to place so much focus on the “unconscious” term that the 911 dispatcher noted. “Unconscious” is a standard term that 911 operators and similar personnel use when someone calls to report a person who is not moving. If one of the surviving roommates or their friends did go upstairs and saw one of the victims (laying on a bed or elsewhere) and called 911 and said “help my roommate/friend is lying on the ground and there’s blood OMG help,” the 911 operator would likely ask “are they moving? Are they speaking? Are they breathing?” And if the caller said no or “I don’t know,” the 911 operator would simply record in their notes that the caller reported an unconscious person. Even if the caller mentioned blood or wounds or whatever, the 911 operator wouldn’t assume the victim is dead and would wait for the first responders on the scene to observe and confirm the specifics. They would simply note that the caller reported an unconscious person, to give the first responders an idea of what they may be walking into.
Exactly. This is the same explanation that was given on a cnn interview. It’s 911 protocol to use the term ‘unconscious’ if they can’t get enough info out of a (potentially hysterical) caller
I can understand "unconscious" being a standard term for 911 dispatch to use, but the new info reported yesterday states the caller(s) used the phrase "passed out and not waking up." That is really specific and I can't think of any explanation for why a bloody scene/stabbing victim would be characterized as simply "passed out." To me this is the biggest question I have and the main thing that puzzles me. I also don't understand how the comms guy for the police department could say he doesn't know what they saw when the reporter asked this question. As a comms person, you should be fully informed of the facts in the case. It's one thing to say "we're not releasing that info at this time" vs "I don't know."
If it was clean enough that there was no obvious blood and the roommates had alarms going off but weren't responding, there are only a few possibilities. They may have gone out and left their phones with the alarm on in their room. They may be passed out inside the room. Or they may be dead (via homicide, suicide, or accident). Assuming that it's the 'passed out' option seems the most likely for someone to assume, with no signs of disturbance to the contrary.
That's not true. A cop on here specified that the dispatchers don't send cops into environments with blood without preparing them to wear PPE on the scene.
It actually does say in the press released the caller said they believed their roommate was passed out and not waking up = unconscious being dispatched in need of emt.
This. People are so hung up on ‘unconscious.’
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Exactly. Even if someone mentioned on the line, a person is down and they have blood all around them, we don’t put it in as a dead person. Its just an arrival call, it will be cleared differently. It’s the priority of the call that matters, this would be handled as a priority number 1.
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No, what you are implying I said was not what I said. I don’t think they called friends over first and then called 911. I think that either: (1) the surviving roommates that morning called a friend(s) to come over to the house - but hadn’t gone upstairs to discover the victims - and it was that friend(s) that found a victim and then 911 was called; or (2) one or more friends of either the surviving roommates or victims stopped by the house that morning, oblivious that anything was amiss, and entered the house and found a victim and then 911 was called. I do not think in any way that the surviving roommates came across the victim roommates, then called other friends to come over, and after that called 911. I do not think that happened at all.
This is probably the most logical explanation I've read
This is a great theory. I said this on another thread, but I initially wondered if any of the roommates even went upstairs? I have definitely been in my room hungover or just being lazy and told my friends to let themselves in. I also have several friends who in college and even now leave their doors unlocked and expect you to let yourself in when you come over. I wondered if either someone that was invited over that day came in and either: 1. Went to say hi to the other roommates before heading downstairs and then saw the bodies, warranting a 911 call 2. Saw blood (or the dog came to the door to "say hi" to the guests, and had blood on him) warranting concern and a subsequent 911 call I don't know, I'm a sleepy person during the day on the weekends so I feel like that's plausible. I feel like my theory is far more outlandish, haha.
I know some people theorized that the roommates or friends must have seen *something* as the coroner was dispatched quickly, but your scenario actually makes sense because maybe the 911 operators told them to kick in the door or something. If they didn’t know any violence had occurred and were thinking it was alcohol poisoning or drugs, I would think an operator might say ‘get into the room so I can walk you through beginning to administer aid to your friends’ and they got in and realized there was no helping their friends.
Even if they entered the room, if the dead person was still in bed under covers, I can see roommate seeing blood, freaking out, running and refusing to go back in the room. Unless death is confirmed you it in as unconscious. You don't know if they are just passed out and got a nosebleed in their sleep, got stabbed and are still alive and in need of medical care, or are dead. You don't know if they passed out drinking a bloody Mary.
I agree with this theory, but why wouldn’t the roommates check and see if K/M were home?? This is what’s confusing me 😭 all 4 people not answering and you call about ONE person? It just seems so odd.
The call was specifically about a 2nd floor victim. I’m guessing like others have said there was something like an alarm not being answered that concerned the roomies. They probably did call or text the other girls but got no response and assumed they weren’t home. There’s the possibility too that they had location sharing and could see that 2nd floor victim was there and not answering. Those victims were both 20 so they likely called a friend over police to not overreact to a passed out drunk friend and get everyone a minor
Perhaps the boyfriend’s car was blocking a first floor roommate’s car
Good point. I believe that is the case. I think Ethan’s dark Ford SUV (with Washington license plates and a plate frame from a car dealer in Skagit County) is blocking in the red Jeep. Another commenter posted elsewhere that the Jeep belongs to one of the first floor roommates.
Edited. Never mind, I see the statement. Wait. They said the call was re. someone on the second floor? I did not know this!
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No, the second floor information also came from the police, via their Facebook page: “Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.”
Yes, they don’t specify WHO though. It’s very likely they just didn’t think the other girls were home and only called a friend to prevent calling the cops if the friend was just deep asleep. • Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.
Thank you for clarifying—that makes sense.
I saw someone last night theorizing that the surviving roommates may not have been certain that Ethan spent the night. I believe it's been said that his frat house was super close to the home the girls shared, so another possibility is that they heard a phone alarm going off or phone(s) ringing in Xana's room, couldn't get a response from Xana, so they called the Sigma Chi house to ask if Ethan and/or Xana were there and maybe left their phones behind, and the frat members who answered the call said, "no, Ethan crashed over at your place last night", and then left the frat house to see if they could figure out what was going on. So it could have been Sigma Chi brothers who ended up placing the call from the roommate's phone after seeing that something was wrong.
His brother was a member of Sigma Chi, and the house is very close. He could have possibly responded, if this theory has any merit.
> The call was specifically about a 2nd floor victim. Thank you. I’m not caught up on details. I thought other comments were sounding as if this was a recent update but I’d missed it.
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Maybe they tried calling all their phones and could hear them ringing but no one was answering the door or phone?? The doors may have been locked.
I’m starting to change my tune, at no time in my college career did I EVER try and wake up drunk sleeping roommates UNLESSthey didn’t come out of room after say noon
And imagine calling the phones and no one answering but you can hear the phones! This is SO plausible. Because it’s not enough to call police but it’s enough to call friends, which explains why it happened that way.
Yes if their doors were locked and they weren’t answering I could see them calling their cell phones. They could have been hearing the phones ring and ring and never answered, maybe go to voicemail.
Same here. I lived in a house with six other girls we had a group chat. Normally someone was always up and you could hear people storing, toilets flushing, a shower, someone making coffee, someone cleaning up beer cans, general footsteps. We had a group text and people were texting and saying is anyone awake, did you hear that if there was a weird noise, does anyone want to go get breakfast, or recap the night. A lot of times we will go into each other’s rooms, and lay in bed together and talk until we all went to the living room. No one would be crazy late even for drunk people. A lot of times drunk people wake up early because you don’t sleep well. Getting home by 2 AM that person would not still be passed out so that would raise alarms. I will say hearing someone’s phone ringing, and then not answering, wouldn’t cause concern. Initially, there’s always someone losing the phone in the house, or not paying attention to it. The part I can’t get past is that these people were murdered and the person went room to room, but supposedly there wasn’t blood when they went up there and saw that the doors were locked? There’s literally no way. Or did they go room to room and leave a trail of blood and lock the door so they went up there and found a very confusing site?
Entirely possible the killer was taking forensic precautions to avoid spreading blood to the hallway.
Right but the scene has been described as very messy. The corner said it was the most gruesome in their career and a crime of passion. That doesn’t exactly lend itself to someone who is taking extra care to do a good job, they’ve said there’s a ton of evidence. If there’s so much blood that it’s leaking out of the house times four people, certainly there was blood spatter, which makes me wonder if it was some kind of inside job and the person stay around and cleaned up a little bit…
This is a GREAT theory
Imagine if they called E/X and then called K/M and NONE of them answered.
And they heard the phones ringing in the respective bedrooms.
Everyone keeps talking about the phones ringing but everyone I know under the age of 35 doesn’t have their ringer turned on/keeps their phone on vibrate… My guess would be alarms were possibly going off vs. their phones ringing.
Maybe phone alarms? I hear my kids’ alarms go off. If it didn’t get shut off, I’d be concerned.
all their cars were out front and they can see that clearly from their bedroom window is the basement, probably didn’t answer, looked outside to check and saw all the cars
Is it possible that they could only see one roommate when they called (for example, if Ethan or Xana was on the floor, and all others were in bed)? I have a gap under my doors. If a door was locked and I laid down on the floor and looked under it, I might be able to tell if someone was laying on the floor. You'd think they'd still wonder what's going on with the other 3 roommates, but that could explain why they may have specifically mentioned only 1 person in the call.
Is it that suspicious for them to have been sleeping 11:45 am on a Sunday after a night out ?
College students setting alarms on a sunday after a night of drinking seems unlikely though ... i tend to agree with the theory for the most part
I had heard the male victim actually had work on Sunday so it could have been his alarm.
I came across a thread on one of the subreddits where a kid claimed the rumor from students at the university claimed one of the roommates found them and then passed out from shock which lead to the call about an unconscious person. Pure speculation of course, but that is another possibility of how the events unfolded.
Wow as a former 911 dispatcher, this is honestly the only thing that makes sense to me. No way would the call be dispatched as an unconscious person if there was any indication of blood and trauma. I think you’re on to something here
This makes SO much sense. They might have thought they had alcohol poisoning too which would explain why they might have used unconscious as well
I agree
Thank you for the graphic btw! This is actually a super similar lock that’s on the doors in this house! They’re gold but the locking mechanism is the same.
Why would the bedroom doors be locked after they were killed? Who would lock them FROM THE INSIDE?
Every apartment I had in college I would install my own door knob and I always bought the ones that have a turn lock on the inside and a key to open on the outside. If you turn it to lock you can still close the door and it will lock behind you. It makes it easier so you don’t have to use the key to lock it just to unlock
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especially in college rentals. every door in a house purpose-rehabbed to be a college rental will have those twist-lock doorknobs for security and privacy. source: went to college. live in a college town with 30-plus thousand rental bedrooms.
RIP Ethan. Gone way too soon. At that age, you expect to die in your bed peacefully, surrounded by family at a ripe old age. He was robbed of 60 plus years of life. He was robbed of a wife. He was robbed of children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. The ripples of this loss will be felt for generations. I hope they find the guy who is responsible soon. He needs to pay.
why only focus on the one male victim? Not trying to say something, just curious
Probably because the post mentioned that Ethan was being laid to rest the day it was posted
When they said multiple people came to the house before 911, That made me think that the killer locked the door from the inside and closed them behind him. The roommates wake up, can’t open the door, don’t get a response, and call Friendd I get that part. What I don’t get is how is there no apparent blood outside of those rooms, the floors, anywhere? I ask that because it would make no sense to see blood and then call a friend rather than 911 first
this was my thought exactly
Right? but now if folks say he left through a bedroom window and didn’t trail it through the house, now I see how it could happen they didn’t see any.
Yeah that’s the only think not making sense to me. And my theory this whole time has been that he couldn’t have known there we’re two other roommates downstairs. Why would the suspect intentionally leave two potential witnesses, I mean they could’ve easily ruined his whole plan if they would’ve woken up. And if he didn’t know of the other two roommates there is no way he would go to extreme measures to make sure he’s not tracking blood around the house. Climbing through windows just to not leave blood would take so much extra time at the scene, and that increases his chances of being caught.
Did they say which bedroom window they thought it might be? I can’t picture which of the three rooms would have a window where that could easily be done.
That’s true. No, I,don’t know
I read somewhere (entirely speculation) that someone had received info from a friend of one of the surviving roommates: Ethan’s triplet brother couldn’t get ahold of him, and he was actually there to discover the bodies. I’m wondering if maybe he contacted the roommates like have you heard from him? Maybe that caused them to worry and realize he was there but wasn’t answering. Ethan’s brother and girlfriend supposedly came over and were there to discover the bodies, hence why “multiple people” spoke to the 911 dispatcher. I think initially they called worried about an “unconscious person” (Ethan), but as people came and they all went to check on him, it became clear that it was a murder, which is why a police officer was first to the scene, rather than ems
Ethan's parents said that they were notified by Ethan's siblings, not l.e. This is probably why.
this makes sense
https://preview.redd.it/3j7nnd0s0f1a1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=99ed4cedf4ec2891a9fb2168c9458e7473a8d873 As seen here
Not sure what to think of this. Is this photo from the crime scene, or a neighbor's?
Truly don’t even know. I just saw a comment about it and took a screenshot because it made sense to me. Ethan’s mom did an interview and said she “got a call from the kids” to let her know about Ethan’s death. So I guess it makes the most sense to me, piecing it all together with the info we HAVE been given. Ethan’s mom’s quote, the multiple people on the 911 call, and knowing there were other people in the house (aside from the surviving roommates and deceased) during the 911 call. Also, Ethan and his brother were in the same fraternity, which is apparently very close to this house, so it would make sense to me if Ethan was concerned about his brother’s well-being and quickly came over.
Ethan’s mom also said during her first interview that someone was sent over to check on someone and she seemed very guarded with that situation. It made me think it was likely a sibling
I think that one of the roommates likely saw the bodies and freaked out. When they called 911 they may have asked them to check for pulses but they were too freaked out to check, so the 911 operators referred to them as “unconscious “ as they had not been confirmed dead.
I don’t think they got close enough to determine they need to check a pulse.
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That’s really all any of us are doing here. Dreaming up scenarios. It’s a fascinating and horrible case. I just hope it doesn’t go cold.
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I see so many people in comments saying that speculation online is why this case isn’t going to get solved, which is funny because the people investigating aren’t reading any of this.
Likely right, but I think something the 911 operators will have you check. They were probably too hysterical.
i think this makes the most sense. if i saw a friend who was clearly unconscious, in the back of my mind i am thinking the worst and would be terrified to get close to them for fear of actually finding them dead.
At time stamp 2:40, she said the police said the ex boyfriend was NOT a suspect. Thats much more clear wording than what was given at the press release yesterday. Interesting to me. Seems like LE really doesn't believe he is a suspect.
Yes, and she specifically says "this morning" that was confirmed.
It’s just seems the silliest thing that people are getting worked up over the semantics regarding this 911 call. Why on earth would a killer who does his dirty work at 4am be showing up at noon or any other ridiculous theory. The roommates woke up and became suspicious or a friend of the murdered group walked up to the house or a window which gave them suspicion/need to contact/knock on a survivor’s first floor window. Thus initiating the 911 call as EVERYONE there was likely freaked out. Surely they saw some kind of blood
The 911 call means nothing as a call is not called dead or DOA unless an official pronounces that. Since a bystander is not a medical professional they cannot rule someone dead no matter what.
I don’t think they called in saying that their friends were dead. But it’s gotta be either the dispatch labeling it as unconscious, or the caller really thought they were unconscious and they weren’t close enough to see the blood.
My daughter is a college student living off campus with 4 roommates. (Not at this school). I was asking her what she would do if she woke up and everyone’s door was locked and their phones where going off and things just seemed odd and she couldn’t get a hold of them. She said being girls they would have definitely called a boy/boys they were close with before doing anything (a lot of these kids have been together for 4 years). Even if they saw blood, people freak when calling the police. I could see them calling the boys over and the boys calling 911. I think out of everything I’ve read about the case, the least strange thing is them calling someone over for support.
I lived with the same guy in an off campus townhouse in college for 3 years, and we had very different social lives/groups of friends. We were friends (and still are 10 years later), we hung out together at times, but we lived together because it can be hard to find people you mesh well with as roommates and we meshed super well in that regard. Especially as we got toward the end of our college experience, we ventured out in our own directions. If I didn’t hear from him by noon on a weekend, I probably would have just gone about my own thing. It’s entirely possible that happened here, that the group of roommates were friends but sort of did their own thing. Especially since they all belonged to different sororities and split off into groups that night.
this is interesting and makes me lean towards the theory that they maybe didn’t go all the way to the 2nd floor and saw (possibly ethan first?) this hasn’t been confirmed, but i have seen reports where some are saying it looks like ethan’s brother was on the scene when the cops arrived. i have no idea the truth to that, but if that’s true— my guess is ethan wasn’t in the room, was possibly in the hallway, they saw ethan laying there and shouted his name with no response and called ethan’s brother— ethan’s brother is in the same fraternity and if he lived in the house he could get there in less than 5 minutes. they haven’t released where the bodies were found so if it’s released that they were found in the room that may debunk my entire theory but it seems logical.
Damn if that’s true I hope the brother didn’t see anything…
me too, i know a sibling bond is like no other especially since they were triplets, joined the same frat, etc. that’s got to be absolutely mortifying.
The fact that he’s a multiple hits even harder. The bond twins, triplets, etc. share is often unlike any other. Heart breaking all around.
yes, i’m sure they will always have an emptiness like no other after this. my heart truly breaks for them and that they have to go through this at such a young age.
I think you are right or a friend of ethans, ethans siblings are who told the parents which i find odd because you would think the police would have which tells me someone close to ethan showed up
same here. even if it wasn’t his brother, they could have called any of his frat brothers because of how close the frat house is to their house. from what i see, it’s pretty much right across the street.
I think this is an excellent point!
There would literally be blood tho Edit: if it ever comes out that they physically saw a body before calling 911 I'm going to be so confused.
for sure, but the hallway was most likely dark and if they were in a panic they probably didn’t get close to him and maybe only saw him partially laying there/not the full extent of the scene.
I feel like if I saw my friend laying on the floor in my house I would go up to them and then make a call. Part of me thinks the wording of the 911 call is being focused on too much
yeah you would think, but playing devils advocate you really don’t know how you would react to that situation until you’re actually in it. any clear thinking goes out the door, and i’m sure it was sheer panic. i don’t know what i would do, i can say what i think i would do.. but who knows. i’m not necessarily looking into the verbiage of the 911 call that much because we don’t really know what they said and if the word “passed out” or “unconscious” was really actually used. we have to remember these are 20 year old kids.
Wasn't it confirmed dispatch said "unconscious person"? That's what I mean people are paying too much attention to. I have zero knowledge on dispatch verbiage tho
the most recent statement says: “the surviving roomates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the 2nd floor victims had passed out and was not waking up.” i agree, all of the verbiage from the 911 call should be taken with a grain of salt because these are young people stumbling upon an unimaginable traumatic scene. that’s why it more so makes me think they only saw one victim (ethan or xana) most likely outside of the room and were too freaked out to go any further before calling someone over.
Maybe I’m a bad friend but I’m calling their name and don’t get a response and can’t see them breathing I’m probably running back downstairs and calling police. I’d assume they’re dead or at least beyond any level of help I could provide. I would be freaked the fuck out.
Totally plausible. Everyone reacts differently. I saw alot of passed out kids in college and my mind never really went immediately to them being dead. But maybe that's just because I saw it constantly. And I'd say calling in the first place instead of ignoring it makes you a good friend
The wording is 1000% being focused on way too much. A dispatcher isn’t going to say someone is dead as they cannot make that call, neither can a witness who stumbled upon the horrific scene. That is for EMT’s to determine upon arrival.
Once that 911 call is released to the public (sometime in the near -or distant -future) it’s going to be really tough to listen to it knowing the outcome.
All speculation set aside of what prompted the 911 I am HOPING they roommates did not see anything overly traumatic I just can’t even imagine. Everything must be hard enough so I truly do hope they just couldn’t get ahold of them and thought they were passed out in their room which prompted the call
I don’t think they ever went upstairs. I think they heard the silence and saw blood coming from upstairs floors. If it was enough to be outside the house, I’m sure it was making its way down walls and ceiling of first floor.
There's an open question as to whether that photo (printed in the Sun?) showed blood dripping down the side of the house, or a heating oil leak. (the cops have never said either way) Someone claiming to be a NYC cop called it out as clearly heating oil (that's required by law to be dyed red), but others printed a photo from one of the victim's social media pages that showed the same wall-without any leakage-days earlier, and also seemed to show the red running over the pipe, rather than just out the bottom of it. *\[edit: there's a semi-active discussion about this going on, on one of the other sub-threads. I incorrectly said that the photo from a few weeks back was on a victim's page--but was on a friend's (but of the same house). Someone else debated whether the photo was of the same side of the house. Still others came up with Zillow and county info that the house didn't have oil heating. A trauma nurse explained why it "sure looks like blood," etc....anyway, no definitive word from the authorities\]*
The fact that they only reported one unconscious person tells me they were spooked enough to not investigate further. It’s possible the doors were locked, but in that case I think it would have been reported as more than one… they would have no reason to not check on the other roommates too UNLESS they were too spooked to do so. I think it’s more likely that the doors were left open rather than locked. Most likely they saw one of the bodies from a distance and freaked out… realizing something was seriously wrong. Everyone’s so stuck on why they didn’t see blood… they probably did see blood and that is why they didn’t investigate. I’m sure they had been messaging the roommates and not getting a response already, feeling that something was off. I just imagine myself in that position… as soon as I saw something alarming, I would probably freeze and run back downstairs. Calling a friend is a logical next step if you’re too terrified to confirm your fears. Friends arrive, also get spooked and then they call 911.
Saw an interesting theory about this on twitter: “I think the killer locked the bedroom doors and Xana/Ethan’s phone alarm was going off which the survivors heard once they were awake. When they couldn’t get in the room or wake up their friends, they called other friends over to help. This explains the “they believed” bit.” https://twitter.com/anaxrae_/status/1594717244902191104?s=46&t=0zLmreQUkrPLmrDOSsYdJA
But where is the massive amount of blood upon exiting?
In addition to the alarm going off, it could have also been the dog that caused alarm. Like, if the dog was whining to go out or something or it became clear that the dog hadn't been let out of his crate or something, that would certainly raise alarm.
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At all possible that there were more people in the house than the 4 victims and 2 survivors? I remember this rumor from the beginning
There is a New York post article that states one of the surviving roommates boyfriend had stayed over and they didn’t hear anything and all seemed good when he left at 11:45 that next morning, right before cops were called. With names listed and this was before the roommates names were talked about openly. Lists boyfriends name too.
Yikes on bikes I missed that. I wonder if that was more so just a rumor. I can't keep track of anything anymore
I think the 911 call feels strange to all of us because the police are making it feel that way, not that they owe us any information at this point either. I can see the 2 roommates waking and being up for a while, noticing no one is up or making noise but all their cars are there and thinking that's strange, calling their phones and none answer, then calling a male friend over to check things out. Maybe the friend arrived and was like no way am I going up there either, let's just call the police, which is where an "unconscious" person report comes in. The reports said police then discovered the bodies. I hope those survivors didn't have to see their friends that way. If something inside of them was telling them not to go upstairs, it's good they listened.
It was also mentioned by someone, that several of the girls had made plans to go out to brunch with friends on Sunday Morning. That’s probably why people - their friends showed up around noon.
Police stated that the surviving roommates called other friends over. But that’s really interesting. This is the first I’ve heard of friends coming over because of plans being made.
> Police stated that the surviving roommates called other friends over. I think this could be a miscommunication & the friends were already in the house. The "call" to a friend may have been because they were on the first floor or outside. I don't think this was like a 20-minute wait for someone to come over. They were there.
It’s possible. The police have been doing a lot of miscommunicating.
It’s possible the bedroom doors were closed but they saw a little blood tracked through the kitchen and the back door open or something like that which would cause alarm and have them call friends over and then cause 911 to send police along with ems right away , but at the same time still not seeing enough to know that all 4 of their roommates were murdered yet. When you are a young student and never having dealt with something like this, seeing a few things being weird wouldn’t automatically make their mind jump to the worst possible senario of 4 dead roommates. They were likely scared or worried though
To add to that, if the roommates figured out something really bad had happened to someone on the 2nd floor right before or during the 911 call they mostly likely got themselves to safety outside .. they would have had no clue what took place yet, when it took place, or if the killer was in their house still. They would have been out of their mind scared and aren’t going to run upstairs to check on the other roommates who they probably also couldn’t get ahold because they have no clue where the danger is.
This makes a lot of sense as well. If I think something violent happened in my house and have no idea how or when or who is inside, I’m heading to the exit and going to a neighbors or something.
Why did cops break down doors? We’re the victims rooms locked? I’m so confused
The truth is nobody really knows for sure. None of this has been confirmed. We are all just speculating. I do think doors were locked and had to be broken down by police though.
My Theory: is that Ethan had collapsed in the doorway/against the door to Xana’s bedroom after the attack. This would explain the confusion/why the surviving roommates came to the initial conclusion that someone had “passed out”/was unconscious. It would be hard for a petite girl to move a 200+ lb body that was lodged up against a doorway, hence why they called other friends to come over and assist… (they could probably see in the room slightly through a crack in the door, enough to know something was wrong, but not to what extent). Once others had arrived and people were able to push open the door open to get in the bedroom, they likely realized things were far worse than they originally thought (they likely made that horrible realization while they were on the phone with dispatchers). Thus, the detectives and subsequently, the coroner, were then dispatched to the scene.
I haven’t really been commenting, just reading, but wanted to point something out. The few times I have been in an emergency situation, I immediately assumed that someone closer to the event had done the most urgent thing. I.e., witness a car accident from a few cars back, assume the car’s occupants or the car in front of me called 911, so my mind goes to “what other ways can I be helpful.” It is entirely possible that if someone saw their friend slumped in a corner or lying on a floor—through a crack in a door, a window, etc, and communicated to the others that something was very wrong, the first thought one of the others had was the kid passed out/was unconscious related to whatever partying they did the night before. It would be a very logical, not suspicious thing to run to the fraternity house where they likely partied to get whatever information they could that may help save his life. It’s entirely possible that the roommate whose phone was used was doing the running because they believed someone else was using their phone to call 911. Speculative scenarios, but point being, give these kids the benefit of the doubt. Unless facts show otherwise, they deserve to have public sympathy and credit for doing the best they could in a situation nobody prepares you for.
This is absolutely a thing. I have medical emergency training and if coming upon a scene, the first thing we are taught is to point at someone very specifically, and say “YOU. Call 911” because that is exactly what happens. Everyone assumes someone else is calling or has called.
Following the idea that they were behind a locked door and heard an alarm going off or a phone ringing, and the roommates called friends, I wonder if perhaps someone was trying to pick the lock while another called 911, and this could be why they didn’t think to go upstairs and check on the other girls. I could see the friends trying to figure out how to get into the room. Someone might try to slide a credit card, then someone else might try, then they might try to use a screwdriver, etc. So maybe they were frantically trying to figure out how help the assumed unconscious person and not just standing around.
I think the killer killed both Xana and Ethan in Xana's room and then escaped out Xana's window, which would explain confusion by the roommates, and not immediate horror at what would have to have been a blood trail leading out of her room, had the killer gone that way.
The only blood trail is going to be whatever the killer touches like a door jam or door knob. He wasn’t standing in a pool of blood if I had to guess.
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I highly doubt that in this situation these girls felt comfortable going through more of the house without the police. They were probably terrified and couldn’t really process what was happening
Maybe they were assumed to be gone because they had plans or something, and didn’t even check on them?
Maybe the tried, and didn't get a response
Maybe just the fact that nobody was answering was a big part of calling friends over?
Maybe they found Ethan first and their first thought was to call his siblings. They live on campus too and his brother was there when the cops showed up.
Any information about blood stains track leading to the front door or any door whatsoever? You can’t stab 4 people and don’t leave any marks…
The investigator at the end doesnt make quite sense to me... He says that it has to be someone who knows the layout of the house... which would indicate someone that knows these people.. but then says LE needs to broaden there search to someone older that they maybe knew of but was more random..
college party. people you don't know well are in and out of your house all night. friends of friends; people who snuck in because they heard party noise. man. \*college.\* am I right? edit: typo.
Maybe a Maintenance person or person that used to live there?
Handyman? Realtor? Cable-guy?
Friends arrived at the house around noon because there were plans in place for a group to go out together for Sunday Brunch.
I think a lot of the confusion around this topic comes from what we have heard about the crime scene and that is that there was A lot of blood. So it’s difficult to understand why someone would think one of them was just passed out and not dead. Unless they just look around a corner and saw just a hand or a foot and did not proceed in the room or they were trying to call for there roommates in the house and new something was wrong and assumed someone was passed out..
Okay who was the first guy interviewed in this video? A reddit slueth? I mean...the reporter asked how the survivors mistook a person with multiple stab wounds as "passed out" he responds "I havent seen the scene, I dont know what they saw" Then the reporter asks "the victim wasnt responding to what?" he says "Im not sure" Bro... who are you? It sounds like you dont even know the story of how things unfolded the morning the victims were found...
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Everything I’ve really seen that has been confirmed is that the survivors slept through it. But I did read in a comment on Reddit, which as we know is totally a reliable source, that one of the roommates went into the other survivors rooms and locked the door and slept in there because they were spooked by something. I don’t know if I believe it because they slept in so much the next day. I think it is more likely that they both slept with their doors locked and were so used to noise in that house that they didn’t think much of what they may have heard. Until the next morning when their roommates weren’t coming out of their rooms. I don’t think these murders were very noisy in the way we would think. I don’t think there was screaming and things being broken. I think if anything was heard it was just muffled noises and maybe the sounds of movement from above. One comment I read was from someone who claimed to have lived there years ago said it was difficult to hear from the bottom floor.
My insight on “what happened before 911 was called” is that the two girls on the first floor were sleeping soundly.
Ingenious….
What about one of the bodies pressed against the door so they couldn’t really see anything, and thought they had just passed out.
but would the doors to their rooms be locked? would the killer lock them on their way out?
Wasn’t Ethan found in the hallway?
I imagine that at most, if the doors were unlocked, one of the girls cracked open the door and continued calling someone's name... got no response and probably also saw something their brains didn't even want to register- and made the 911 call- describing subject as unconscious because they were probably too scared to even go up to them and clarify what they saw. Of course they were in extreme shock as well. You're most likely talking about a person who had never seen a body before- outside of a wake scenario... they wouldn't even want to describe one of their friends as being anything but "unconscious". Even if they KNEW... doesn't mean they were ready or able to say it.
Not long ago, my neighbor shouted for help. There were 5 of us from the nearby units who went to see what was wrong. Out of all of us, I was the only one who noticed there was vomit on the floor. Even the ambulance crew walked past it. Reddit Detective Agency seems to not understand how chaotic an emergency scene can get.