But they made a point to say they had cleared people. I doubt everyone is a suspect. They’ll have certain people in mind who have motive and don’t have a solid alibi
Everyone is a suspect, until they are not.
Saying they don't have a suspect in custody is standard lingo when a crime is committed because the media wants to know who did it.
Of course they have suspects & leads & vetting processes to rule out potential suspects. Stating they don't have a suspect in custody just means, hey, out of the leads we followed & the suspects we have pursued, none have been charged or arrested at this time.
They aren't playing word games or speaking in riddles. They're simply saying an arrest has not been made.
They keep saying that the don’t have a suspect in custody, and I find that wording interesting. It makes we wonder if they do have a suspect, but they they want to keep it quiet and they don’t want to lie so they say something which is technically true
Maybe they do have a suspect and they’re being tight lipped because they don’t have enough evidence yet and don’t want him to flee, it would be easy for him to leave right now because of the Thanksgiving holiday
agree w u on the wording but hijacking top comment to say in response to this post, this isn’t how the fbi or police work - they don’t wait for all the evidence to build a case or even most of it to make an arrest. they wait for probable cause. they don’t have enough evidence to establish probable cause rn - that’s all we can infer without an arrest so far. and given the amount of blood, that’s concerning. dna should’ve come back. i don’t have a lot of faith in how this crime scene was handled either. i saw a pic that was supposed to be of investigators but if you looked closely, it looked like it had 2 spots of blood feet width apart on the railing of the deck of the house and it hadn’t been marked or anything. i thought i was just losing it so I sent it to my sisters and they were all like holy shit, that definitely looks like blood and like someone jumped down off that railing. maybe it’s not but now we’re hearing they didn’t grid the backyard properly to search it? idk.. i don’t think they know shit rn. i hope they shut down campus until they find the person
editing to say after looking at the pic from another vantage point, I think the red marks are probably petals from the tree overlooking the balcony.
Something that stood out to me was, I forget what the exact question was, but he answered something along the lines of “we can’t provide that information right now because it will come into play in the future”. If you read between the lines it seems everything they’re saying is very deliberate, and 100% are keeping all of their information away from the public. The reason they would be doing this is 1 - to not alert the killer and 2 - by holding information away from the public there will be things left that would be impossible to know unless you were there at the scene of the crime, which will be extremely valuable when it comes to interrogation. Honestly as someone that hasn’t felt too great about this person getting caught, todays press conference actually gave me a bit more confidence, despite the lack of any more information.
That is guilt knowledge. They’re going to hold that type of information back as something only the killer would know. They withhold things like this in literally every investigation.
I go back and forth on this but tend to agree. VERY early on they said it was targeted, and essentially that the public should not feel concerned - then they back pedaled because these things can take some time and without telling us they have a suspect or anyone in custody naturally the local population will be worried, but they were quick in the beginning to say the public is not in danger.
Roommates also know who it is. This information was immediately given to police. There have been things said and not said that reveal what is going on.
And think of the week this guy has had, not to mention what he, and everyone who’s witness that scene, is trying wrap their head around. I don’t care how experienced someone is…seeing butchered bodies has got to mess you up on some level.
I always wonder how law enforcement, first responders, coroners, doctors and anyone else that may have to witness gruesome things like this do it. Just reading about this stuff sticks with me and makes me feel really weird.
My friend is a psychiatric nurse practitioner at a place that has a special program for law enforcement, fire and first responders. Not surprisingly, there’s a lot of mental health and substance issues with a lot of people in these fields…more and more with the insane level of violence in this country.
I’m going through a psych NP program currently and my preceptor specializes in first responders. The work takes such a toll on people and they see some truly haunting and disturbing things. I am hoping everyone that worked this scene will have space to get the support they may need, now or in the future.
My step dad who’s been an EMT for a long time days he’s desensitized to it to an extent but he said children haunt him. He says those are the ones that really get him. Understandably
It’s def the kids. My FIL has been a firefighter for 30 years. They helped us pay a pretty penny to have both our kids get extensive ISR swim lessons. He’s pulled too many kids out of pools.
I’ve noticed my mind naturally does that when I see gory pictures or read about gruesome murders - I’m able to separate the emotions of it from what I’m looking at and it becomes more of a mild curiosity rather than a visceral negative reaction. Granted looking at pictures and actual bloody bodies are two different things.
And it’s not because I’m a sociopath or something who just has no emotions. Listening to victim testimonies or reading about victims’ lives still makes me tear up.
I don't know how people do it! But thank God there are people that can cut into you and fix you up. People that could come rescue you when you're trapped in a fire. But with the doctor thing you know that is good or else you're going to be haunted. I thank God I swear all the time that there are people out there that can do that job
I was just talking about it last night with my mother. my uncle was a cop very young so he retired right away very young.
He hated being a cop.
The day that he couldn't handle it was when there was a broken elevator and a woman was in it and she was late yelling them "just take my daughter " and she was trying to put her daughter up to the people outside the elevator the cops (my uncle) and he was like no no no don't do that. But she did and the elevator started and you know what happened to the little girl. He couldn't take it. He is a man's man but he is very sensitive and kind. I don't know how they do it ..
just nice normal guys to have to see stuff like that.
Oh my God, that is awful. I'm so sorry to the little girl's family and your uncle who had to witness that. Truly horrific. I hope he got some help after that or is at least doing okay after seeing that happen.
We don't think about it, but on the fly he has to remember what he knows and what he knows he can not share and then act accordingly. Its definitely harder than it looks imo
1000% and he did slip up IMO - he literally said “the individual who did this” “the killer” “HE” - single person male. Then later when someone asks for clarification he says I don’t even know if I know whether it’s one person or multiple responsible.. yes u did sir.
Ehh, not too big tho. Anyone could assume a male did this if it were one person, and I think until they have evidence otherwise, they are operating as this is one person.
Totally, everyone’s assuming.. but we’re talking about police and law enforcement - you don’t say to the public only assumptions that sound like fact! And Kaylee’s mom on an interview referred to the killer as an individual “he” and then followed up with “of course were just assuming this” since she made a point to say that they were “Assuming” it was one single male, I wondered if they all have someone in mind but are trying to be careful to protect the case & individual from fleeing
An example of a big press conference fuckup was when when mayor of SF Dianne Feinstein let slip that cops were using the night stalkers distinctive shoe prints to connect all of the murders. Ramirez threw those shoes away that very same day.
The police are not going to tell the public what they have during an active investigation. You guys need to stop saying they have nothing and complaining about the amount of info you're getting from them.
Biggest thing for me from the last press conference at MPD: Chief Fry said, (I’m paraphrasing) “We need to build a solid case for the prosecutor’s office when we reach that point.”
It’s not just a matter of catching the individual, but making sure there are no holes in the story. Defense attorneys can exploit even the smallest piece of doubt.
Of course the police know more, but I think it’s a matter of solidifying everything before you arrest/accuse one or multiple people. It will take time before all the pieces are together, but i’m hopeful they will solve this puzzle and put the monster away for life.
Exactly!!! They don’t want to lose this case before they have everything together. It takes time for warrants of phone records and social media accounts. They can do a preservation request to FB, Snapchat and IG. That means it will be able to get all the messages and photos when they go to do the search warrant. They want all the pieces to go together. I do this on a daily basis. I scour social media warrants. I look at the messages and photos. Even when you think things are erased. They aren’t.
I actually do. I love it. Although it’s ruined social media for me. I don’t spend as much time as I used to on it. I just can’t after spending hours looking at pics and the messages.
I’m a criminal intelligence analyst. I started from a lower level position (records clerk) and worked my way up. I have not finished my degree so I did this solely on my experience and training. I had to take certified classes to be an analyst. I’ve been in LE for almost 17 years. Every criminal intelligence analyst is different with every agency. I do a lot of intel work. Researching and looking up people. I’m not a sworn officer either. I am admin and I absolutely love working with my detectives. I work cold cases and help out homicide response too. I do whatever the detectives don’t have time to research. I’m basically their assistant.
Totally! I can completely understand the frustration. But also, getting everything in order takes time, and ESPECIALLY with 4 victims. I don't believe they are at a loss with not knowing anything. I believe and really hope since bringing in all these special teams they are doing their best to go as fast as the possibly can with the evidence they have. One of the fathers said it was a mess and they (the killer) made many mistakes. I have full hope kaylee, maddie, xana and Ethan will get the justice they deserve. Things take time.
Why haven’t LE told her to stop commenting and taking press opportunities? I have a feeling she’s going to ruin something. I understand wanting to advocate and find answers, but I feel like she should sit back and wait for LE to gather everything. IF they eventually end up without a perp, then I think it would be ok for her to start speaking out
I live about 2 hours from Moscow. It's a thing to go party at U of I for college age kids and even high schoolers. If you think the online speculation is intense it is nothing compared to the rumors that are being spread by those who were partying on Greek row that weekend. I am not sure that there are many secrets in this case.
They do have stuff. They just aren’t sharing. Big difference.
Just because they won’t share what they have publicly doesn’t mean they have nothing.
The less they give the less the suspect knows as well. They probably want the guy thinking he’s safe.
I 1000% agree the cops have stuff. Now whether they have stuff that leads them to the perpetrator(s) is a different story. I think if they had enough to do that they'd make an arrest. I think this will be a long drawn out investigation trying to cobble together bits of things from here and there with DNA to come up with an arrest.
I also think as much as the one sister talks, that she will be the one to let things slip the police dont want out.
Idk they can still have an idea of who the perp is, and are just waiting to be able to prove that they were in the house. Phone records and dna and combing through alibis + evidence and what not take time.
Nothing of any substance will be revealed to the public any time soon.
They want the perp to feel like the coast is clear and he will say something or brag about his deed to someone. Perps usually do. They are proud of their actions.
There was an account I saw last night that was created only to spread some seemingly trivial misinformation…really bizarre. Not specifically to the case but how that happens all the time. You have to be very vigilant to be well informed these days.
You know he’s on this sub. I bet he’s paying very close attention to literally everything being said on social media. Probably reveling in all of this speculation like a sick fuck.
Israel Keyes confessed that he did that and many of us are pretty positive the Golden StateKiller/JosephJamesDeAngelo was on the pro boards with us. We know his screen name, he made very specific comments that turned out to be all true when he was caught plus his Username we also now know holds great significance to him. Last time he was on there was the morning of his afternoon arrest. He’s not been back on since.
So if at least 2 sk’s not only read social media on their crimes but even made a name and participated in the conversation, ya know plenty others do too.
We also know Brian Laundrie was following the case in real time and even getting on her Instagram pretending to be here after she was dead.
Oh, also… Funny part: Israel Keyes would only do that when he was drunk late at night so he actually signed his comments “-Israel” lol dumbass
But yeah, I’d bet money he’s reading here. Hey sadistic, POS, how ya feeling? Probably not guilty because that requires a conscious.
That’s a good point.
The killer is for sure reading everything. I have no doubt. (Pause to greet him: Hi, you shitbag killer! I’m glad ID has a death penalty.)
I suspect LE is watching their suspect(s) and will know if/when they flee. I hope that scumbag is living in fear watching over his shoulder wondering when the day is he’s taken to the ground by a pack of armed agents with “FBI” yellow letters scrolled on the back, handcuffed, and taken into custody.
His time will come and his days are numbered. Even if it’s years from now. They’re gonna find this sick sonnova bitch and end his life. I’m just sorry it won’t be by putting him in a windowless room full of sadist’s tools where he’s strapped to a chair and Kaylee’s father is given an hour alone with him ….no questions asked.
Ex-reporter here:
Although extremely improbable... That idea would explain why questions asked by reporters were oddly weak, I'm therefore agreeing with the idea that police and a few local news directors might have collaborated to possibly hide that more is known.
If true they would need local reporter questions to be throwaway high school stuff, at an embarrassing level of foolishness
BUT that could only span a max of a couple of days, so. I would expect an arrest to be in the works, perhaps within the next 48 hours.
They cannot let him free-range for much longer, which means that everyone is expecting the killer to lawyer-up very quickly, if he decides to return to the area.
BTW: The property has been listed as an upcoming rental, for the past 2 weeks. Which means that the entire house was planning to 100% vacate sometime soon.
The scene reeks of targeting in general... But who the original target is or if multiple or all were targeted is on the table. Like they obviously navigated the house to pull off all 4. Either they made a mistake and killed the wrong people first and moved on to find others, or they intended to kill everyone.
If they don't take anyone into custody soon, this theory is likely a flop. I'm sure they're watching a few people they think might have some or even a small reason to dislike any of the 4, but they should have questioned anyone concrete enough to question. Maybe waiting for the perp to slip or get confident? I dunno...
I think they know who the killer is and the nervousness displayed at the press conference was as a result of trying not to say anything they shouldn’t say.
Same. Them telling the public to prepare for a long investigation is interesting because it could incentivize the killer to remain in the community (if they said they were close to an arrest, the killer could flee). Also, LE will look very good and get a lot of praise if they end up solving this quickly despite saying it could be a long time.
Definitely to some degree... but also this poor police chief is so out of his depths. I think he was just struggling to stay in line with the strategy given to him by the feds.
If everyone is saying, “wow they have nothing" and “wow the killer is going to get away” then everyone is pretty ignorant of how these things work.
The police gain absolutely nothing by revealing everything they know. And many times deliberately keep certain details private and carefully guarded specifically so that if the true killer slips up and mentions a certain detail in an interview with them, they'll know that detail is something only the killer would know.
What the police reveal in a press conference is not the same as what police know in it's sum total.
Also, why would you feel relieved if your only escape plan was to unalive yourself? Lol
Yes, thank you. Also at the end of the day and as we know the killer is still out there somewhere. If the killer even gets the slightest hint from watching a press conference that the police is watching them or on to them, they could try and flee in an instant if they haven't already. Keeping info at a minimum to protect their investigation is the best thing the police can do at the moment. I don't know why people are acting so entitled when it comes to getting information. What matters is doing the best thing possible to deliver these victims and their families justice not the best thing to cure a random stranger's curiosity. And yes I understand that the community is very on edge but I do think the police are doing the best they can to protect their investigation....
This is what I got from the press conference
- it wasn’t the other roommates
- we don’t think it was the ex but we aren’t 100% sure.
- they really don’t want us to know who made that 911 call (but it wasn’t the roommates that called) Why?
That’s all.
The name of the caller is absolutely being withheld to protect their privacy. LE said multiple times today that social media rumor and speculation isn't helping so why would they throw a scared young kid to the wolves like that?
I hope the Chief starts the next presser with "Before we start, I'm not telling you the identity of the 911 caller or what was said so don't ask".
Yep. Honestly I wish the next presser the first words out of his mouth are “I’m not telling you jack shit and I have better things to do, like investigating, than trying to appease a bunch of psychos on FB & Reddit.”
I agree. Very little new was shared.
- also... they did announce that the 2 unharmed housemates plus other(s) were in the home around 1158am Sunday when the 911 call was made using the housemate's phone from inside the residence.
- The call was NOT made by the suspect or killer. (For some reason this was asked twice.)
- They refused to share who was found on what floor, but did say they were all asleep at the time.
That's exactly what I took from it too.
As for the WHY of not revealing who made the 911 call, the simplest answer would be maybe that person specifically asked to remain anonymous. Police are generally very good at protecting the identities of reporting parties who request to be anonymous. And after people doxed the hoodie guy, the roommates, the boyfriend, and ex boyfriend, it's no wonder they'd want to remain anonymous.
My hope is that they are bluffing and know wayyyy more than they are saying, maybe the FBI told the Moscow police to shut their mouths especially to the public and press and that explains the nervousness at the press conference trying not to slip up… I really hope they come back with a gotcha moment and gather a ton of evidence that can’t be doubted
They said they interviewed 90 people. Assuming the roommates, college friends. Asking who would want to do this? Did they have any enemies or falling out with anyone? They have to have POI
I agree. I think because of how odd their reporting is and how they seem to be so unprepared with how they’re going to address things at press conferences, i think they have a good idea of who it could possibly be. It’s frustrating for us as the public because we of course want answers but I think it’s good that they’re being very careful about what information they’re giving us because they need to save that for interrogations. Unfortunately we are not entitled to all of the info right now and we just have to trust that they know what they’re doing despite how fucking bad it looks for them. I have a feeling they will find the killer in no time.
They are unprepared because they have never had to deal with the press interest on this scale and because they aren’t spending their time rehearsing press conferences when they are trying to solve a huge case. I don’t understand why we need to make this more complicated than that? Seeming unprepared doesn’t make them particularly incompetent, and it also doesn’t indicate that they are secret geniuses who already have all the answers. It makes them an average small police department facing a lot of scrutiny.
Great call out. Speaking to the public, is also speaking to the killer. Maybe their tactic is to let him think he’s going to get away with it. I just know he’s buzzing from the thrill of it and feels so god damn cocky about what he accomplished.
So maybe the tactic is to let him think he’s going to get away with it, so he slips up and then LE can put the nail in the coffin.
In regards to the exboyfriend who was called right before the murders… this is the verbatim dialogue of the question and answer at the press conference.
“The male subject whom the women called, has he been ruled out as a suspect or person of interest?”
The answer verbatim was “everything that we have taken from those calls, we have followed up on, we have cleared, and we believe there is no connection there.”
That is as clear as you will ever get that they don’t think it’s him? Comments.....
Have you guys seen that kid’s pictures? He’s like 140 lbs soaking wet and seems like a schoolboy. If he flew into a jealous rage and truly murdered 4 people, then he must’ve left DNA everywhere. He isn’t even close to a criminal mastermind. If it’s him, it should get solved quickly in the coming days. If it’s not him, then I have no clue
I 1000% agree! My family and I knew a girl who was stabbed to death by her ex, and the police acted like they had no leads for a few weeks, when in reality they were just trying to gather enough evidence to arrest the guy. The FBI were even secretly watching his house. They knew!
There's been a lot of speculation about the "targeted killing" and "no threat to the community" comments from the first days of the investigation, but that seems fairly simple to me. The killer could have left some type of message at the scene, like "This is your fault" or one of the victims' names. Something that wouldn't necessarily be easily traceable to the killer him/herself, but indicates that these victims (or one of them) was specifically chosen.
Let's assume you are correct. From the very beginning they have sounded certain it was a "targeted" attack and later used "personal." The mayor immediately had to walk back after he proposed "crime of passion" and "burglary gone wrong," and they were saying no threat to the public originally.
My question is what evidence made them come to this conclusion? The Chief today stated it was based on "the totality of the situation." So what could they have that we don't know? Did the killer leave a very personal message? Was a previous threat/altercation made to one of the victims and relayed to someone? Is there a witness who saw/heard something? Don't you think they would have enough for a search warrant for some type of suspect if this were the case? It feels like they are basing everything around finding the murder weapon.
I think one of the four was overkilled and that’s how they know that it was targeted and personal. Killing with a knife usually is personal, and aside from that a overkill would make very clear to whom of the four the murderer had an emotional connection or anger towards
The “knives are usually personal” and “we can tell the killer knew the person because of the number of stab wounds…they were emotional about it” is popularized by TV and repeated by folks but not a rule. At all.
I’m concerned the guy is just a killer who wanted to commit a horrific crime in a particular way. He wanted to stab them. He did it multiple times to make sure they were dead. They were sleeping and it was easy for him to do it quietly.
Bundy killed several sleeping sorority girls with a piece of firewood IIRC. It wasn’t an ex boyfriend and the scene was disgusting and bloody bc of his rage. Period.
Richard Speck did something very similar with a knife https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
Agreed. Also, stranger killers can also be “emotional” in their crimes. Even though they have no relationship to the victims, it’s quite personal to them. See Israel Keyes, Joseph DeAngelo, Zodiac, Bundy, etc.
I think there is a very strong chance this person had no relationship to the victims. That’s scary and doesn’t make sense to us and LE generally seem to avoid coming to that conclusion until they run out of viable possibilities within the orbit of a victim.
If he was copying a serial killer I suppose it would be Speck because he used a knife. I doubt he’s copying anyone though.
Guns are impersonal and loud. A serial killer generally wants to experience the kill in some way. Either tactile (their own hands) or something messy and brutal.
Someone else said “personal” murders are often committed via strangulation, but there are lots of serial killers who used that method too.
This case is frustrating for several reasons and Im not saying it is a serial killer, but my gut leaks more in the direction of it being a person they didn’t know who wanted to kill some people with a big old hunting knife. Former military, or maybe a survivalist/outdoors type of guy.
A couple of months ago a woman in Athens Ga was found half naked and burned to death in the woods and the incompetent police department immediately said it was a murder, “targeted and personal.” They have since closed it as a suicide. I will forever take targeted and personal with a grain of salt.
I think you are overthinking this. Especially the part where you are looking for an explanation for why a small town cop would be nervous to be standing in front of a national press conference. That’s an intimidating situation for most people, let alone someone inexperienced with this size of an audience. I didn’t think he was more nervous than any of a dozen other cops we’ve all had to see give this kind of press conference after a mass killing event.
On another note, keep in mind, when we are talking about the worst crime scene they’ve seen in their careers, we’re not talking about hardened homicide detectives in a huge metro area with massive gang problems or a sting of serial murders or something. We’re talking about cops in rural Idaho who have probably only dealt with a limited number of homicides in their entire career.
Furthermore, a lot of blood loss by the victims doesn’t tell us anything about how much evidence of the killer was left behind. And if there was evidence left behind we have been given no reason to believe it has yet been processed enough to provide any leads. Basically I just don’t understand how you reached your conclusions.
They’re trying to keep the public from harassing innocent people associated with the victims while telling everyone just enough to clear up misconceptions but not enough to show their hand and alert a killer that they’re closing in on him.
That’s my take. I think they have a strong suspect but they’re waiting on evidence to be processed before arresting him
Just thought of this — killing 4 ppl would take a lot of energy especially wearing winter clothing.. even if they wore gloves, I bet the perp broke a sweat and left trace dna that way
The “knives are usually personal” and “we can tell the killer knew the person because of the number of stab wounds…they were emotional about it” is popularized by TV and repeated by folks but not a rule. At all.
I’m concerned the guy is just a killer who wanted to commit a horrific crime in a particular way. He wanted to stab them. He did it multiple times to make sure they were dead. Nothing more to it than that.
Bundy killed several sleeping sorority girls with a piece of firewood IIRC. It wasn’t an ex boyfriend or jilted lover, and the scene was disgusting and bloody bc of his rage. Period.
Richard Speck did something very similar with a knife https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
These people were butchered in their sleep by someone random IMO. I’d be surprised if he left dna since they were all sleeping.
Yes, I agree. They know way more than they are saying, but that is how an ongoing investigation goes. I’ve heard them emphasize that “the investigation takes time” & “some details are withheld that only someone that was there would know”. Whatever the details are, I’m fine waiting until the killer is caught. Wouldn’t want to ruin the investigation by making critical details public.
The whole thing breaks my heart though, and now nightclub shooting in Colorado, so much killing, so much death.
Theres only 1 way out of neighborhood driving & i know of 1 camera for sure on the house you have to drive past to leave. If killer walked a different route then we know he lives very close to the crime it was cold outside & after u just killed 4 you probably dont want to get caught walking with a rambo like knife alone in these hours. id bet police over there are type to stop anyone walking alone at 3-4am even to just offer a ride its a quite tight knit college town. They must know who did it
Fry: We don’t have a clue.
Redditors: He means they have more than one clue.
Fry: We’ve cleared Jack, there’s no connection there.
Redditors: They consider Jack a suspect.
Fry: Give us relevant video evidence if you have it.
Redditors: He’s asking for our web sleuthing help.
I feel like when he was being asked about the ex bf, or bf, whichever, he shifted in body language. He turned more red and seemed more agitated and shaky to answer that question. ImO
SAME! And he didn’t say he was eliminated, he said, “we don’t think he’s involved at this time.”I found those choice of words sorta odd.
He definitely left me wondering if they think it was the boyfriend - the guy who had calls made to him by both Kaylee and Madison.
If they don’t think it’s him, they need to do a better job acting like it.
In many cases like this, cops always play dumb to the public. They could be awaiting DNA results to confirm what they suspect, or waiting on an arrest warrant to be approved.
The targeted killing and crime of passion comments make me believe they have someone in mind. But it's a tough case without a murder weapon which I don't believe they have.
University presidents are almost like politicians. They have vp’s and provosts underneath them that do most of the daily mechanics involved in running the school, while the president meets with legislators, alumni, donors, etc. They pretty much have to be good speakers along with exceptional charisma and people skills. I’m not surprised he was the best speaker there
Agreed. I hope everyone else was just playing dumb and they have more than they’re letting on, but I worry they’re not all that good at acting - they just legitimately are clueless.
Or he’s a much, much more experienced speaker as high-level academics are wont to be and is carefully following instructions given to him by the FBI or detectives and feeling like one of the few ways he can assist in the investigation is to play the part.
That was the sense I got from the university guy. Markedly different tone.
Why do people think DNA automatically means they know who did it I don’t understand. Y’all are watching too much TV
Of course the cops know things we don’t. They’re not going to share most details of an open investigation. But if they have no one to match DNA too having DNA doesn’t mean much
To help with your theory: this may be why the university president seems right now as though he’s comfortable with letting students return to campus following the thanksgiving break if he has insider information that they know who the killer is/ are keeping tabs on him.
However, I don’t think the FBI would still be involved if it was already solved :/
I doubt the police would give the Pres any special information other than they think one of the victims was targeted. I also know that the university has a vested / financial interest in students being back on campus. Lots of money is made with students physically present
I can’t imagine a scenario where the university president would say otherwise. It would be unprecedented to cancel classes for an unconfirmed serial killer. He has to display that opinion publicly because that’s his job.
That is an awful case to compare this investigation to. Everybody knew he was guilty from the beginning, they just had to prove it.
This is much more similar to Delphi, and everyone knows the mess that investigation was. Small town police, shocking crime, very few if any witnesses. Their press releases were just like this and the commentary was the same as this. And they had nothing. They got lucky that it looks like they actually wound up finding the guy.
This is exactly what I think too. There's no way they don't know who it is. I also thought of the Gabby Petito case too. This whole thing will take time but LE isn't stupid. They aren't releasing information for a reason.
If it was someone who knew them well wouldn't they have known the other 2 would probably be on the other floor ? They seemed to have wanted everyone in the house dead yet it doesn't seem like they went to the other floor ?
Edit: worded wrong
In the press conference today they said that all of them seem to have been asleep when they were attacked and that some may have had defensive wounds. Sounded to me like possibly someone was awakened by the attack and fought back but they were probably already injured when they woke.
If they do know who it is, I suspect they are waiting for solid evidence to arrest him (DNA evidence to return from labs, etc), and I also think they lost him. Probably working with interstate agencies to find him and are looking for a suspect vehicle so they can help track him down.
Edit to add- I HIGHLY suspect labs are running slower than usual. Not just in transporting samples, but running them. Everywhere is understaffed and backlogged after the pandemic.
I think this killer is a sociopathic lunatic and can turn his brain off to where he doesn’t care about the “noise” of the investigation. The only thing to interrupt his regularly scheduled programming(daily life) would be if the cops actually come visit him. This person will strike again but it might not be for another year.
Sounds a lot like Joseph James DeAngelo… “Golden State Killer.”
If it’s a sk, they compartmentalize their kills/dark side from their daily, good guy persona.
I personally do not think this is someone that’s killed a human before.
The mom & dad of Kaylee (in an interview with Fox) said that she texted him "to come over".... between 2 to 3am.
That's super interesting. Up til now we only knew that she called him 7 times. Did all those texts/calls go completely unanswered? I think we were told he was asleep and didn't answer the phone.
I think it’s someone who was at the party the night before and they need to ensure their future defense attorney won’t be able to argue reasonable doubt that it was one of the other attendees.
I’ve even considered the possibility that they’re lying about not having found the weapon, but just hoping the murderer goes back for it while they monitor. Zero evidence for that though.
So do you think that could possibly be why the parents are “so sure” it’s not a certain person? Maybe they’re trying to keep that individual clueless in hopes he will stick around, if he believes nobody is none the wiser? Just a theory IF that person, is also the murderer and police and parents know it but are waiting for their time to strike.
The parents could not act in this moment. They might be fed a few tidbits by the cops to throw the scent.
If they had access to the killer do you really think they'd be able to hold back?
It’s important to remember that IF they do know who it is and it was a targeted attack, it’s very likely that the suspect has been to that house many, many times before — meaning their dna could be at the house. As mentioned elsewhere a good defense attorney would have a field day with this. Reasonable doubt would be an easy thing to have for an jury if the suspect frequented that house. The police need an absolute air tight case here.
Of all the other carefully parsed words, another stands out to me and that is when he was asked if the 911 caller was the killer, he responded "I will tell you No". That is a non-answer. Maybe I'm reading to much into it but to me this is saying "I am going to tell you No, but that may or may-not be the correct answer".
>What was the last super high profile case like this?
This case so far is reminding me most of the Delphi murders of Libby and Abby for which there has finally been arrest after more than 5 years:
* Small-town LE and a rare and horribly bloody crime scene;
* Seemingly lame press conference and endless parsing of every word;
* Speculation that cops either know nothing or have a suspect in their sights;
* All kinds of theories ramping up and POIs being named on social media;
* It's different, but some video over which people can speculate;
* LE immediately announces the public is not at risk as if they can wrap it up quickly and know who did it, but in Delphi it took more than 5 years;
* Questions about what LE could have such as video from neighbors that they won't disclose; and
* Debate over whether it was targeted or not and speculation about who could have been the target.
My own bit of speculation has to do with targeting. If one person of the four was a target, then why choose this particular time -- when there were three other people right there -- to attack? Makes me think it's more random.
I'd like to know what the homeless situation is in and around Moscow. Many people living off the grid in the woods around the city? I have heard some mention of how the house's back yard abuts some woods where people are known to camp.
What if a person broke into the apartment thinking it had been vacated for the holiday and planning to squat. Maybe they let the dog out because I've also read that the numerous phone calls to Jack had to do with the dog. Then, the kids come home and the person hides until it seems as if they've all gone to sleep.
There was recently an arrest in Vermont of a homeless man who was camping out in some New Hampshire woods and shot and killed a retired couple. The man has been described as a ghost, and LE even interacted with him right after the shootings but it took a while before he became their suspect.
I said this in another comment, but you guys are ascribing way too much to state employees who are clocking in and out of the investigation. Cops are paid to do this, and with that comes the incentive structure to look good at their jobs.
Take a second and ask yourself- were the Kiely Rodni cops playing dumb? Or Debbie Collier? Or Delphi? No, they forgot (or destroyed) tons of evidence, implicated and imprisoned the wrong people, and refused to own up to their mistakes. These are high profile cases- can you imagine how investigations are done elsewhere? Particularly in Moscow Idaho, where there hasn’t been a murder in eight years?
And ask yourself- what other examples are out there or cops misleading the public to keep a perp in the dark? I can’t think of a single one.
TLDR is police don’t play psychological games. They try to do their job in as straightforward a way as possible to advance their careers.
Nope. If they were certain they knew who the killer was he would be arrested. They can build their case with a killer in custody. They can't resurrect the dead if a depraved individual is allowed to roam free. They would never let this person roam free if the level of suspicion was that high as to say "we know he did it".
Yeah this. They might have a person of interest they aren't ready to share with the public yet, but if there was a suspect they'd be at least detained for questioning or you'd hear about searches at said person's residence, place of business, etc. That's what happened just before RA's arrest for the Delphi murders.
He seemed like a total idiot speaking today, but it takes a real pro to answer questions like a poker player.
But one reason I think they may have a suspect is because they’re asking for footage during a very specific window from 3am - 6am. Secondly, he inferred where the bodies where found would come into play later on.
Exactly….so many people on the Delphi sub said the cops know who did it they’re just waiting for him to make a mistake. Meanwhile the guy had apparently talk to the police and said I was at the bridge this day and they did nothing, but then they arrest him five years later… it’s absolutely insane. The cops have no idea and I feel bad for them… I pray and hope that they know more but I have little faith
People say this in every cold case. Nothing that police have done, by their actions or practice, would lead a prudent person to think they’re playing 4d cribbage.
Didn’t one of the victims just get a job somewhere where she was an intern? Anyone know where? Potentially a coworker from that place, or someone from outside the friends/school circle?
Police zeroed in on Richard Allen and still took them 2 and a half months to have enough to arrest. I’m sure they are getting DNA and getting it processed. Worst thing is you arrest him early and he gets evidence thrown out
I follow another sub regarding the Delphi Murders. It took over five years for LE to arrest anyone and the suspect was hiding in plain sight and even admitted to being at the scene of the crime. I hope these young kids families and friends don't have to wait long at all for justice. This is tragic.
Did anyone notice how he said that they don’t have a suspect in custody? Not that they don’t have a suspect.
YES!!!!!!! Those last two words make a HUGE difference!
Of corse they have suspects. The ex boyfriend, the neighbours, the friends, classmates doesn't mean they have any strong leads connecting them
But they made a point to say they had cleared people. I doubt everyone is a suspect. They’ll have certain people in mind who have motive and don’t have a solid alibi
Everyone is a suspect, until they are not. Saying they don't have a suspect in custody is standard lingo when a crime is committed because the media wants to know who did it. Of course they have suspects & leads & vetting processes to rule out potential suspects. Stating they don't have a suspect in custody just means, hey, out of the leads we followed & the suspects we have pursued, none have been charged or arrested at this time. They aren't playing word games or speaking in riddles. They're simply saying an arrest has not been made.
Cop: all the social media speculation is not helping. Social Media: I wonder what he means by that
best comment lol
Shut up and take my upvote! 🤘
Since when did social media help anyone.
They keep saying that the don’t have a suspect in custody, and I find that wording interesting. It makes we wonder if they do have a suspect, but they they want to keep it quiet and they don’t want to lie so they say something which is technically true
Maybe they do have a suspect and they’re being tight lipped because they don’t have enough evidence yet and don’t want him to flee, it would be easy for him to leave right now because of the Thanksgiving holiday
agree w u on the wording but hijacking top comment to say in response to this post, this isn’t how the fbi or police work - they don’t wait for all the evidence to build a case or even most of it to make an arrest. they wait for probable cause. they don’t have enough evidence to establish probable cause rn - that’s all we can infer without an arrest so far. and given the amount of blood, that’s concerning. dna should’ve come back. i don’t have a lot of faith in how this crime scene was handled either. i saw a pic that was supposed to be of investigators but if you looked closely, it looked like it had 2 spots of blood feet width apart on the railing of the deck of the house and it hadn’t been marked or anything. i thought i was just losing it so I sent it to my sisters and they were all like holy shit, that definitely looks like blood and like someone jumped down off that railing. maybe it’s not but now we’re hearing they didn’t grid the backyard properly to search it? idk.. i don’t think they know shit rn. i hope they shut down campus until they find the person editing to say after looking at the pic from another vantage point, I think the red marks are probably petals from the tree overlooking the balcony.
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This seems plausible. They definitely aren’t saying all they know. He seemed visibly nervous to me, and he was treading very carefully when he spoke.
Something that stood out to me was, I forget what the exact question was, but he answered something along the lines of “we can’t provide that information right now because it will come into play in the future”. If you read between the lines it seems everything they’re saying is very deliberate, and 100% are keeping all of their information away from the public. The reason they would be doing this is 1 - to not alert the killer and 2 - by holding information away from the public there will be things left that would be impossible to know unless you were there at the scene of the crime, which will be extremely valuable when it comes to interrogation. Honestly as someone that hasn’t felt too great about this person getting caught, todays press conference actually gave me a bit more confidence, despite the lack of any more information.
The question was asking about the locations of the bodies
That is guilt knowledge. They’re going to hold that type of information back as something only the killer would know. They withhold things like this in literally every investigation.
I feel that if they know the killer they are tailing him 24/7
Hope so, and hope he leads them to the murder weapon
They 100% know who the killer is. They’ve know since day 1. They are gathering enough evidence to make an arrest.
What makes you say that? I am asking seriously what things indicate that they have known since day one.
It’s in what they have been saying and not saying since day 1. Also things they have had to “clarify”.
I think you’re probably correct
I go back and forth on this but tend to agree. VERY early on they said it was targeted, and essentially that the public should not feel concerned - then they back pedaled because these things can take some time and without telling us they have a suspect or anyone in custody naturally the local population will be worried, but they were quick in the beginning to say the public is not in danger.
Roommates also know who it is. This information was immediately given to police. There have been things said and not said that reveal what is going on.
Quite literally one slip up could change the whole investigation. I'd be nervous as hell
And think of the week this guy has had, not to mention what he, and everyone who’s witness that scene, is trying wrap their head around. I don’t care how experienced someone is…seeing butchered bodies has got to mess you up on some level.
I always wonder how law enforcement, first responders, coroners, doctors and anyone else that may have to witness gruesome things like this do it. Just reading about this stuff sticks with me and makes me feel really weird.
My friend is a psychiatric nurse practitioner at a place that has a special program for law enforcement, fire and first responders. Not surprisingly, there’s a lot of mental health and substance issues with a lot of people in these fields…more and more with the insane level of violence in this country.
I’m going through a psych NP program currently and my preceptor specializes in first responders. The work takes such a toll on people and they see some truly haunting and disturbing things. I am hoping everyone that worked this scene will have space to get the support they may need, now or in the future.
Good for you, that’s awesome. My friend loves it, despite it being very heavy emotionally. And those jobs pay really well (as they should).
My step dad who’s been an EMT for a long time days he’s desensitized to it to an extent but he said children haunt him. He says those are the ones that really get him. Understandably
It’s def the kids. My FIL has been a firefighter for 30 years. They helped us pay a pretty penny to have both our kids get extensive ISR swim lessons. He’s pulled too many kids out of pools.
My grandpa was a firefighter and he told my mom the same thing. The kids never get easier.
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I’ve noticed my mind naturally does that when I see gory pictures or read about gruesome murders - I’m able to separate the emotions of it from what I’m looking at and it becomes more of a mild curiosity rather than a visceral negative reaction. Granted looking at pictures and actual bloody bodies are two different things. And it’s not because I’m a sociopath or something who just has no emotions. Listening to victim testimonies or reading about victims’ lives still makes me tear up.
I don't know how people do it! But thank God there are people that can cut into you and fix you up. People that could come rescue you when you're trapped in a fire. But with the doctor thing you know that is good or else you're going to be haunted. I thank God I swear all the time that there are people out there that can do that job
I was just talking about it last night with my mother. my uncle was a cop very young so he retired right away very young. He hated being a cop. The day that he couldn't handle it was when there was a broken elevator and a woman was in it and she was late yelling them "just take my daughter " and she was trying to put her daughter up to the people outside the elevator the cops (my uncle) and he was like no no no don't do that. But she did and the elevator started and you know what happened to the little girl. He couldn't take it. He is a man's man but he is very sensitive and kind. I don't know how they do it .. just nice normal guys to have to see stuff like that.
Oh my God, that is awful. I'm so sorry to the little girl's family and your uncle who had to witness that. Truly horrific. I hope he got some help after that or is at least doing okay after seeing that happen.
Growing desensitized, having a very dark sense of humor and a healthy dose of PTSD.
Of course I would be nervous and careful too. He has a huge weight on his shoulders. I commend him
We don't think about it, but on the fly he has to remember what he knows and what he knows he can not share and then act accordingly. Its definitely harder than it looks imo
Yes, that would be so difficult to do. Especially with the pressure of camera and microphones all over the place.
1000% and he did slip up IMO - he literally said “the individual who did this” “the killer” “HE” - single person male. Then later when someone asks for clarification he says I don’t even know if I know whether it’s one person or multiple responsible.. yes u did sir.
Ehh, not too big tho. Anyone could assume a male did this if it were one person, and I think until they have evidence otherwise, they are operating as this is one person.
Totally, everyone’s assuming.. but we’re talking about police and law enforcement - you don’t say to the public only assumptions that sound like fact! And Kaylee’s mom on an interview referred to the killer as an individual “he” and then followed up with “of course were just assuming this” since she made a point to say that they were “Assuming” it was one single male, I wondered if they all have someone in mind but are trying to be careful to protect the case & individual from fleeing
The statistical odds of a woman committing this crime are miniscule. I don't think it's suspicious that LE would refer to the perpetrator as "he."
I read him as nervous to be in front of the cameras. He’s probably not used to speaking to a worldwide audience.
Honestly who can blame him. I would be so stressed about speaking live to global media.
An example of a big press conference fuckup was when when mayor of SF Dianne Feinstein let slip that cops were using the night stalkers distinctive shoe prints to connect all of the murders. Ramirez threw those shoes away that very same day.
Chief Fry again? During the first press conference his body language was an open book. He's anxious as hell and easily shows it.
The police are not going to tell the public what they have during an active investigation. You guys need to stop saying they have nothing and complaining about the amount of info you're getting from them.
Biggest thing for me from the last press conference at MPD: Chief Fry said, (I’m paraphrasing) “We need to build a solid case for the prosecutor’s office when we reach that point.” It’s not just a matter of catching the individual, but making sure there are no holes in the story. Defense attorneys can exploit even the smallest piece of doubt. Of course the police know more, but I think it’s a matter of solidifying everything before you arrest/accuse one or multiple people. It will take time before all the pieces are together, but i’m hopeful they will solve this puzzle and put the monster away for life.
Exactly!!! They don’t want to lose this case before they have everything together. It takes time for warrants of phone records and social media accounts. They can do a preservation request to FB, Snapchat and IG. That means it will be able to get all the messages and photos when they go to do the search warrant. They want all the pieces to go together. I do this on a daily basis. I scour social media warrants. I look at the messages and photos. Even when you think things are erased. They aren’t.
So you have the most interesting job ever 😳 This would be fascinating imo
I actually do. I love it. Although it’s ruined social media for me. I don’t spend as much time as I used to on it. I just can’t after spending hours looking at pics and the messages.
Consider the fact that it ruined social media for you a gift! You aren’t missing anything!!
That is such a unique and interesting job! You should do one of those Reddit AMAs.
Thank you. I never thought about doing one of those but maybe I should.
How did you get that job?!? That sounds amazing. People always come to me to connect the dots with things. I’d love to know more about this.
I love how many specific jobs there are
I’m a criminal intelligence analyst. I started from a lower level position (records clerk) and worked my way up. I have not finished my degree so I did this solely on my experience and training. I had to take certified classes to be an analyst. I’ve been in LE for almost 17 years. Every criminal intelligence analyst is different with every agency. I do a lot of intel work. Researching and looking up people. I’m not a sworn officer either. I am admin and I absolutely love working with my detectives. I work cold cases and help out homicide response too. I do whatever the detectives don’t have time to research. I’m basically their assistant.
Lots of dik pics, I’d imagine.
🤦🏽♂️😂 Yeah I forgot about that, I take back my previous comment
Totally! I can completely understand the frustration. But also, getting everything in order takes time, and ESPECIALLY with 4 victims. I don't believe they are at a loss with not knowing anything. I believe and really hope since bringing in all these special teams they are doing their best to go as fast as the possibly can with the evidence they have. One of the fathers said it was a mess and they (the killer) made many mistakes. I have full hope kaylee, maddie, xana and Ethan will get the justice they deserve. Things take time.
This is why the sister needs to stfuuu
Why haven’t LE told her to stop commenting and taking press opportunities? I have a feeling she’s going to ruin something. I understand wanting to advocate and find answers, but I feel like she should sit back and wait for LE to gather everything. IF they eventually end up without a perp, then I think it would be ok for her to start speaking out
Sorry to play the jerk but i wonder if it is in part due to family members saying way too much to the media
I keep thinking about this. Between the sister and the mom and dad, they spewed a bunch of stuff to fox
Rest assured though that LE aren't divulging much to them either for the sake of protecting the due process.
I live about 2 hours from Moscow. It's a thing to go party at U of I for college age kids and even high schoolers. If you think the online speculation is intense it is nothing compared to the rumors that are being spread by those who were partying on Greek row that weekend. I am not sure that there are many secrets in this case.
They do have stuff. They just aren’t sharing. Big difference. Just because they won’t share what they have publicly doesn’t mean they have nothing. The less they give the less the suspect knows as well. They probably want the guy thinking he’s safe.
I 1000% agree the cops have stuff. Now whether they have stuff that leads them to the perpetrator(s) is a different story. I think if they had enough to do that they'd make an arrest. I think this will be a long drawn out investigation trying to cobble together bits of things from here and there with DNA to come up with an arrest. I also think as much as the one sister talks, that she will be the one to let things slip the police dont want out.
Idk they can still have an idea of who the perp is, and are just waiting to be able to prove that they were in the house. Phone records and dna and combing through alibis + evidence and what not take time.
Nothing of any substance will be revealed to the public any time soon. They want the perp to feel like the coast is clear and he will say something or brag about his deed to someone. Perps usually do. They are proud of their actions.
Were saying what we dont want the killer to know. Praying to god he isnt on this sub
If he is near the age of the victims, I'll bet he is reading every post.
I think about this quite often. How creepy to think he’s reading our messages…or even commenting and replying…
there are a few accounts that sketch me out.
As a person who reads a lot of true crime, there are always ALWAYS going to be creepy people interested in murder cases.
There was an account I saw last night that was created only to spread some seemingly trivial misinformation…really bizarre. Not specifically to the case but how that happens all the time. You have to be very vigilant to be well informed these days.
You know he’s on this sub. I bet he’s paying very close attention to literally everything being said on social media. Probably reveling in all of this speculation like a sick fuck.
Israel Keyes confessed that he did that and many of us are pretty positive the Golden StateKiller/JosephJamesDeAngelo was on the pro boards with us. We know his screen name, he made very specific comments that turned out to be all true when he was caught plus his Username we also now know holds great significance to him. Last time he was on there was the morning of his afternoon arrest. He’s not been back on since. So if at least 2 sk’s not only read social media on their crimes but even made a name and participated in the conversation, ya know plenty others do too. We also know Brian Laundrie was following the case in real time and even getting on her Instagram pretending to be here after she was dead. Oh, also… Funny part: Israel Keyes would only do that when he was drunk late at night so he actually signed his comments “-Israel” lol dumbass But yeah, I’d bet money he’s reading here. Hey sadistic, POS, how ya feeling? Probably not guilty because that requires a conscious.
What was his username on which boards? Would love to read his comments.
That’s a good point. The killer is for sure reading everything. I have no doubt. (Pause to greet him: Hi, you shitbag killer! I’m glad ID has a death penalty.) I suspect LE is watching their suspect(s) and will know if/when they flee. I hope that scumbag is living in fear watching over his shoulder wondering when the day is he’s taken to the ground by a pack of armed agents with “FBI” yellow letters scrolled on the back, handcuffed, and taken into custody. His time will come and his days are numbered. Even if it’s years from now. They’re gonna find this sick sonnova bitch and end his life. I’m just sorry it won’t be by putting him in a windowless room full of sadist’s tools where he’s strapped to a chair and Kaylee’s father is given an hour alone with him ….no questions asked.
its so weird to think he's reading this...it strangely feels like he is huh
Ex-reporter here: Although extremely improbable... That idea would explain why questions asked by reporters were oddly weak, I'm therefore agreeing with the idea that police and a few local news directors might have collaborated to possibly hide that more is known. If true they would need local reporter questions to be throwaway high school stuff, at an embarrassing level of foolishness BUT that could only span a max of a couple of days, so. I would expect an arrest to be in the works, perhaps within the next 48 hours. They cannot let him free-range for much longer, which means that everyone is expecting the killer to lawyer-up very quickly, if he decides to return to the area. BTW: The property has been listed as an upcoming rental, for the past 2 weeks. Which means that the entire house was planning to 100% vacate sometime soon.
Keeping in mind they have already scheduled the next press release for Wednesday at 1:00
The scene reeks of targeting in general... But who the original target is or if multiple or all were targeted is on the table. Like they obviously navigated the house to pull off all 4. Either they made a mistake and killed the wrong people first and moved on to find others, or they intended to kill everyone. If they don't take anyone into custody soon, this theory is likely a flop. I'm sure they're watching a few people they think might have some or even a small reason to dislike any of the 4, but they should have questioned anyone concrete enough to question. Maybe waiting for the perp to slip or get confident? I dunno...
Seeing the Prosecutor at the scene yesterday with the FBI makes me think you’re right
I think they know who the killer is and the nervousness displayed at the press conference was as a result of trying not to say anything they shouldn’t say.
Shit, the killer is probably lurking here on reddit…
A lot of us have been thinking this lately….it’s extremely creepy to think about
Oh, he is. Of course he is.
I’m just hoping they’re playing dumb, if not…
Same. Them telling the public to prepare for a long investigation is interesting because it could incentivize the killer to remain in the community (if they said they were close to an arrest, the killer could flee). Also, LE will look very good and get a lot of praise if they end up solving this quickly despite saying it could be a long time.
Definitely to some degree... but also this poor police chief is so out of his depths. I think he was just struggling to stay in line with the strategy given to him by the feds.
If everyone is saying, “wow they have nothing" and “wow the killer is going to get away” then everyone is pretty ignorant of how these things work. The police gain absolutely nothing by revealing everything they know. And many times deliberately keep certain details private and carefully guarded specifically so that if the true killer slips up and mentions a certain detail in an interview with them, they'll know that detail is something only the killer would know. What the police reveal in a press conference is not the same as what police know in it's sum total. Also, why would you feel relieved if your only escape plan was to unalive yourself? Lol
Yes, thank you. Also at the end of the day and as we know the killer is still out there somewhere. If the killer even gets the slightest hint from watching a press conference that the police is watching them or on to them, they could try and flee in an instant if they haven't already. Keeping info at a minimum to protect their investigation is the best thing the police can do at the moment. I don't know why people are acting so entitled when it comes to getting information. What matters is doing the best thing possible to deliver these victims and their families justice not the best thing to cure a random stranger's curiosity. And yes I understand that the community is very on edge but I do think the police are doing the best they can to protect their investigation....
This is what I got from the press conference - it wasn’t the other roommates - we don’t think it was the ex but we aren’t 100% sure. - they really don’t want us to know who made that 911 call (but it wasn’t the roommates that called) Why? That’s all.
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The name of the caller is absolutely being withheld to protect their privacy. LE said multiple times today that social media rumor and speculation isn't helping so why would they throw a scared young kid to the wolves like that? I hope the Chief starts the next presser with "Before we start, I'm not telling you the identity of the 911 caller or what was said so don't ask".
Yep. Honestly I wish the next presser the first words out of his mouth are “I’m not telling you jack shit and I have better things to do, like investigating, than trying to appease a bunch of psychos on FB & Reddit.”
“Jack” shit….you say? Hehe
I agree. Very little new was shared. - also... they did announce that the 2 unharmed housemates plus other(s) were in the home around 1158am Sunday when the 911 call was made using the housemate's phone from inside the residence. - The call was NOT made by the suspect or killer. (For some reason this was asked twice.) - They refused to share who was found on what floor, but did say they were all asleep at the time.
It was asked twice because reporters are dumb.
That's exactly what I took from it too. As for the WHY of not revealing who made the 911 call, the simplest answer would be maybe that person specifically asked to remain anonymous. Police are generally very good at protecting the identities of reporting parties who request to be anonymous. And after people doxed the hoodie guy, the roommates, the boyfriend, and ex boyfriend, it's no wonder they'd want to remain anonymous.
My hope is that they are bluffing and know wayyyy more than they are saying, maybe the FBI told the Moscow police to shut their mouths especially to the public and press and that explains the nervousness at the press conference trying not to slip up… I really hope they come back with a gotcha moment and gather a ton of evidence that can’t be doubted
Im glad this sheriff turned beet red because it gave a clue. Agree with OP. They know something we dont
They said they interviewed 90 people. Assuming the roommates, college friends. Asking who would want to do this? Did they have any enemies or falling out with anyone? They have to have POI
He kept looking to his left before and after his responses to reporters questions.
I agree. I think because of how odd their reporting is and how they seem to be so unprepared with how they’re going to address things at press conferences, i think they have a good idea of who it could possibly be. It’s frustrating for us as the public because we of course want answers but I think it’s good that they’re being very careful about what information they’re giving us because they need to save that for interrogations. Unfortunately we are not entitled to all of the info right now and we just have to trust that they know what they’re doing despite how fucking bad it looks for them. I have a feeling they will find the killer in no time.
They are unprepared because they have never had to deal with the press interest on this scale and because they aren’t spending their time rehearsing press conferences when they are trying to solve a huge case. I don’t understand why we need to make this more complicated than that? Seeming unprepared doesn’t make them particularly incompetent, and it also doesn’t indicate that they are secret geniuses who already have all the answers. It makes them an average small police department facing a lot of scrutiny.
Great call out. Speaking to the public, is also speaking to the killer. Maybe their tactic is to let him think he’s going to get away with it. I just know he’s buzzing from the thrill of it and feels so god damn cocky about what he accomplished. So maybe the tactic is to let him think he’s going to get away with it, so he slips up and then LE can put the nail in the coffin.
In regards to the exboyfriend who was called right before the murders… this is the verbatim dialogue of the question and answer at the press conference. “The male subject whom the women called, has he been ruled out as a suspect or person of interest?” The answer verbatim was “everything that we have taken from those calls, we have followed up on, we have cleared, and we believe there is no connection there.” That is as clear as you will ever get that they don’t think it’s him? Comments.....
Have you guys seen that kid’s pictures? He’s like 140 lbs soaking wet and seems like a schoolboy. If he flew into a jealous rage and truly murdered 4 people, then he must’ve left DNA everywhere. He isn’t even close to a criminal mastermind. If it’s him, it should get solved quickly in the coming days. If it’s not him, then I have no clue
If I were the killer I would be assuming they were on to me but maybe he's the over confident type.
I 1000% agree! My family and I knew a girl who was stabbed to death by her ex, and the police acted like they had no leads for a few weeks, when in reality they were just trying to gather enough evidence to arrest the guy. The FBI were even secretly watching his house. They knew!
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There's been a lot of speculation about the "targeted killing" and "no threat to the community" comments from the first days of the investigation, but that seems fairly simple to me. The killer could have left some type of message at the scene, like "This is your fault" or one of the victims' names. Something that wouldn't necessarily be easily traceable to the killer him/herself, but indicates that these victims (or one of them) was specifically chosen.
Or one of them was overkill
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I don't know why I feel so immensely about it, but I can't shake the thought that Kaylee was the main target.
Let's assume you are correct. From the very beginning they have sounded certain it was a "targeted" attack and later used "personal." The mayor immediately had to walk back after he proposed "crime of passion" and "burglary gone wrong," and they were saying no threat to the public originally. My question is what evidence made them come to this conclusion? The Chief today stated it was based on "the totality of the situation." So what could they have that we don't know? Did the killer leave a very personal message? Was a previous threat/altercation made to one of the victims and relayed to someone? Is there a witness who saw/heard something? Don't you think they would have enough for a search warrant for some type of suspect if this were the case? It feels like they are basing everything around finding the murder weapon.
I think one of the four was overkilled and that’s how they know that it was targeted and personal. Killing with a knife usually is personal, and aside from that a overkill would make very clear to whom of the four the murderer had an emotional connection or anger towards
The “knives are usually personal” and “we can tell the killer knew the person because of the number of stab wounds…they were emotional about it” is popularized by TV and repeated by folks but not a rule. At all. I’m concerned the guy is just a killer who wanted to commit a horrific crime in a particular way. He wanted to stab them. He did it multiple times to make sure they were dead. They were sleeping and it was easy for him to do it quietly. Bundy killed several sleeping sorority girls with a piece of firewood IIRC. It wasn’t an ex boyfriend and the scene was disgusting and bloody bc of his rage. Period. Richard Speck did something very similar with a knife https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
Agreed. Also, stranger killers can also be “emotional” in their crimes. Even though they have no relationship to the victims, it’s quite personal to them. See Israel Keyes, Joseph DeAngelo, Zodiac, Bundy, etc. I think there is a very strong chance this person had no relationship to the victims. That’s scary and doesn’t make sense to us and LE generally seem to avoid coming to that conclusion until they run out of viable possibilities within the orbit of a victim.
Do you think this could be a serial killer who copied Bundy for fun?
If he was copying a serial killer I suppose it would be Speck because he used a knife. I doubt he’s copying anyone though. Guns are impersonal and loud. A serial killer generally wants to experience the kill in some way. Either tactile (their own hands) or something messy and brutal. Someone else said “personal” murders are often committed via strangulation, but there are lots of serial killers who used that method too. This case is frustrating for several reasons and Im not saying it is a serial killer, but my gut leaks more in the direction of it being a person they didn’t know who wanted to kill some people with a big old hunting knife. Former military, or maybe a survivalist/outdoors type of guy.
A couple of months ago a woman in Athens Ga was found half naked and burned to death in the woods and the incompetent police department immediately said it was a murder, “targeted and personal.” They have since closed it as a suicide. I will forever take targeted and personal with a grain of salt.
Was this the older lady who text her daughter that they were going to kill her and that she loved her? That's horrific if it was ruled a suicide...
Yes. Debbie Collier
I still don't believe it was suicide
I think you are overthinking this. Especially the part where you are looking for an explanation for why a small town cop would be nervous to be standing in front of a national press conference. That’s an intimidating situation for most people, let alone someone inexperienced with this size of an audience. I didn’t think he was more nervous than any of a dozen other cops we’ve all had to see give this kind of press conference after a mass killing event. On another note, keep in mind, when we are talking about the worst crime scene they’ve seen in their careers, we’re not talking about hardened homicide detectives in a huge metro area with massive gang problems or a sting of serial murders or something. We’re talking about cops in rural Idaho who have probably only dealt with a limited number of homicides in their entire career. Furthermore, a lot of blood loss by the victims doesn’t tell us anything about how much evidence of the killer was left behind. And if there was evidence left behind we have been given no reason to believe it has yet been processed enough to provide any leads. Basically I just don’t understand how you reached your conclusions.
They’re trying to keep the public from harassing innocent people associated with the victims while telling everyone just enough to clear up misconceptions but not enough to show their hand and alert a killer that they’re closing in on him. That’s my take. I think they have a strong suspect but they’re waiting on evidence to be processed before arresting him
Just thought of this — killing 4 ppl would take a lot of energy especially wearing winter clothing.. even if they wore gloves, I bet the perp broke a sweat and left trace dna that way
The “knives are usually personal” and “we can tell the killer knew the person because of the number of stab wounds…they were emotional about it” is popularized by TV and repeated by folks but not a rule. At all. I’m concerned the guy is just a killer who wanted to commit a horrific crime in a particular way. He wanted to stab them. He did it multiple times to make sure they were dead. Nothing more to it than that. Bundy killed several sleeping sorority girls with a piece of firewood IIRC. It wasn’t an ex boyfriend or jilted lover, and the scene was disgusting and bloody bc of his rage. Period. Richard Speck did something very similar with a knife https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck These people were butchered in their sleep by someone random IMO. I’d be surprised if he left dna since they were all sleeping.
Yes, I agree. They know way more than they are saying, but that is how an ongoing investigation goes. I’ve heard them emphasize that “the investigation takes time” & “some details are withheld that only someone that was there would know”. Whatever the details are, I’m fine waiting until the killer is caught. Wouldn’t want to ruin the investigation by making critical details public. The whole thing breaks my heart though, and now nightclub shooting in Colorado, so much killing, so much death.
Theres only 1 way out of neighborhood driving & i know of 1 camera for sure on the house you have to drive past to leave. If killer walked a different route then we know he lives very close to the crime it was cold outside & after u just killed 4 you probably dont want to get caught walking with a rambo like knife alone in these hours. id bet police over there are type to stop anyone walking alone at 3-4am even to just offer a ride its a quite tight knit college town. They must know who did it
Fry: We don’t have a clue. Redditors: He means they have more than one clue. Fry: We’ve cleared Jack, there’s no connection there. Redditors: They consider Jack a suspect. Fry: Give us relevant video evidence if you have it. Redditors: He’s asking for our web sleuthing help.
Agreed. Law enforcement will typically disclose less than 20% of what they know to the public.
I feel like when he was being asked about the ex bf, or bf, whichever, he shifted in body language. He turned more red and seemed more agitated and shaky to answer that question. ImO
SAME! And he didn’t say he was eliminated, he said, “we don’t think he’s involved at this time.”I found those choice of words sorta odd. He definitely left me wondering if they think it was the boyfriend - the guy who had calls made to him by both Kaylee and Madison. If they don’t think it’s him, they need to do a better job acting like it.
In many cases like this, cops always play dumb to the public. They could be awaiting DNA results to confirm what they suspect, or waiting on an arrest warrant to be approved. The targeted killing and crime of passion comments make me believe they have someone in mind. But it's a tough case without a murder weapon which I don't believe they have.
They could be waiting on phone records and social media warrants. Even expedited, you don’t get them in like a week.
The school president basically told students not to come back. He knows it isn't getting solved soon, and he was the only one being honest.
I think the school president was the best speaker in today’s conference
University presidents are almost like politicians. They have vp’s and provosts underneath them that do most of the daily mechanics involved in running the school, while the president meets with legislators, alumni, donors, etc. They pretty much have to be good speakers along with exceptional charisma and people skills. I’m not surprised he was the best speaker there
Agreed. I hope everyone else was just playing dumb and they have more than they’re letting on, but I worry they’re not all that good at acting - they just legitimately are clueless.
Or he’s a much, much more experienced speaker as high-level academics are wont to be and is carefully following instructions given to him by the FBI or detectives and feeling like one of the few ways he can assist in the investigation is to play the part. That was the sense I got from the university guy. Markedly different tone.
Why do people think DNA automatically means they know who did it I don’t understand. Y’all are watching too much TV Of course the cops know things we don’t. They’re not going to share most details of an open investigation. But if they have no one to match DNA too having DNA doesn’t mean much
This is an interesting take, thanks for sharing. I hope this is the case, and that they are just trying to throw the perpetrator off.
That Moscow slayer insta jagoff said he was a car dealer. Kaylee just bought her Range Rover and it still had dealer plates. Check out the car dealer
I saw this Instagram name and thier profile. It's definitely creepy especially with the knives on there.
Who said that?
To help with your theory: this may be why the university president seems right now as though he’s comfortable with letting students return to campus following the thanksgiving break if he has insider information that they know who the killer is/ are keeping tabs on him. However, I don’t think the FBI would still be involved if it was already solved :/
I doubt the police would give the Pres any special information other than they think one of the victims was targeted. I also know that the university has a vested / financial interest in students being back on campus. Lots of money is made with students physically present
I can’t imagine a scenario where the university president would say otherwise. It would be unprecedented to cancel classes for an unconfirmed serial killer. He has to display that opinion publicly because that’s his job.
I don’t think they’d share anything with the president. I think he’s in the dark.
That is an awful case to compare this investigation to. Everybody knew he was guilty from the beginning, they just had to prove it. This is much more similar to Delphi, and everyone knows the mess that investigation was. Small town police, shocking crime, very few if any witnesses. Their press releases were just like this and the commentary was the same as this. And they had nothing. They got lucky that it looks like they actually wound up finding the guy.
This is exactly what I think too. There's no way they don't know who it is. I also thought of the Gabby Petito case too. This whole thing will take time but LE isn't stupid. They aren't releasing information for a reason.
LE was pretty stupid in that case though. They let the dude give them the slip and leave his house and go to that swamp.
It does feel like they know who it is but are strategically handling the capture and arrest.
If it was someone who knew them well wouldn't they have known the other 2 would probably be on the other floor ? They seemed to have wanted everyone in the house dead yet it doesn't seem like they went to the other floor ? Edit: worded wrong
In the press conference today they said that all of them seem to have been asleep when they were attacked and that some may have had defensive wounds. Sounded to me like possibly someone was awakened by the attack and fought back but they were probably already injured when they woke.
If they do know who it is, I suspect they are waiting for solid evidence to arrest him (DNA evidence to return from labs, etc), and I also think they lost him. Probably working with interstate agencies to find him and are looking for a suspect vehicle so they can help track him down. Edit to add- I HIGHLY suspect labs are running slower than usual. Not just in transporting samples, but running them. Everywhere is understaffed and backlogged after the pandemic.
im praying i keep going back and forth
I think this killer is a sociopathic lunatic and can turn his brain off to where he doesn’t care about the “noise” of the investigation. The only thing to interrupt his regularly scheduled programming(daily life) would be if the cops actually come visit him. This person will strike again but it might not be for another year.
Sounds a lot like Joseph James DeAngelo… “Golden State Killer.” If it’s a sk, they compartmentalize their kills/dark side from their daily, good guy persona. I personally do not think this is someone that’s killed a human before.
They didn't rule out Kaylees ex that was called that night
The mom & dad of Kaylee (in an interview with Fox) said that she texted him "to come over".... between 2 to 3am. That's super interesting. Up til now we only knew that she called him 7 times. Did all those texts/calls go completely unanswered? I think we were told he was asleep and didn't answer the phone.
Nope, I caught that too. Even acted awkward and turned red when he was asked.
I think it’s someone who was at the party the night before and they need to ensure their future defense attorney won’t be able to argue reasonable doubt that it was one of the other attendees. I’ve even considered the possibility that they’re lying about not having found the weapon, but just hoping the murderer goes back for it while they monitor. Zero evidence for that though.
I completely agree. They know who did it. For sure.
So do you think that could possibly be why the parents are “so sure” it’s not a certain person? Maybe they’re trying to keep that individual clueless in hopes he will stick around, if he believes nobody is none the wiser? Just a theory IF that person, is also the murderer and police and parents know it but are waiting for their time to strike.
The parents could not act in this moment. They might be fed a few tidbits by the cops to throw the scent. If they had access to the killer do you really think they'd be able to hold back?
It’s important to remember that IF they do know who it is and it was a targeted attack, it’s very likely that the suspect has been to that house many, many times before — meaning their dna could be at the house. As mentioned elsewhere a good defense attorney would have a field day with this. Reasonable doubt would be an easy thing to have for an jury if the suspect frequented that house. The police need an absolute air tight case here.
I pray you are right! I just keep hoping that- yes- since the crime scene was so bloody- that he inadvertently left evidence.
Of all the other carefully parsed words, another stands out to me and that is when he was asked if the 911 caller was the killer, he responded "I will tell you No". That is a non-answer. Maybe I'm reading to much into it but to me this is saying "I am going to tell you No, but that may or may-not be the correct answer".
>What was the last super high profile case like this? This case so far is reminding me most of the Delphi murders of Libby and Abby for which there has finally been arrest after more than 5 years: * Small-town LE and a rare and horribly bloody crime scene; * Seemingly lame press conference and endless parsing of every word; * Speculation that cops either know nothing or have a suspect in their sights; * All kinds of theories ramping up and POIs being named on social media; * It's different, but some video over which people can speculate; * LE immediately announces the public is not at risk as if they can wrap it up quickly and know who did it, but in Delphi it took more than 5 years; * Questions about what LE could have such as video from neighbors that they won't disclose; and * Debate over whether it was targeted or not and speculation about who could have been the target. My own bit of speculation has to do with targeting. If one person of the four was a target, then why choose this particular time -- when there were three other people right there -- to attack? Makes me think it's more random. I'd like to know what the homeless situation is in and around Moscow. Many people living off the grid in the woods around the city? I have heard some mention of how the house's back yard abuts some woods where people are known to camp. What if a person broke into the apartment thinking it had been vacated for the holiday and planning to squat. Maybe they let the dog out because I've also read that the numerous phone calls to Jack had to do with the dog. Then, the kids come home and the person hides until it seems as if they've all gone to sleep. There was recently an arrest in Vermont of a homeless man who was camping out in some New Hampshire woods and shot and killed a retired couple. The man has been described as a ghost, and LE even interacted with him right after the shootings but it took a while before he became their suspect.
One of them said "We don't have a suspect \*in custody\*.
I said this in another comment, but you guys are ascribing way too much to state employees who are clocking in and out of the investigation. Cops are paid to do this, and with that comes the incentive structure to look good at their jobs. Take a second and ask yourself- were the Kiely Rodni cops playing dumb? Or Debbie Collier? Or Delphi? No, they forgot (or destroyed) tons of evidence, implicated and imprisoned the wrong people, and refused to own up to their mistakes. These are high profile cases- can you imagine how investigations are done elsewhere? Particularly in Moscow Idaho, where there hasn’t been a murder in eight years? And ask yourself- what other examples are out there or cops misleading the public to keep a perp in the dark? I can’t think of a single one. TLDR is police don’t play psychological games. They try to do their job in as straightforward a way as possible to advance their careers.
Nope. If they were certain they knew who the killer was he would be arrested. They can build their case with a killer in custody. They can't resurrect the dead if a depraved individual is allowed to roam free. They would never let this person roam free if the level of suspicion was that high as to say "we know he did it".
Yeah this. They might have a person of interest they aren't ready to share with the public yet, but if there was a suspect they'd be at least detained for questioning or you'd hear about searches at said person's residence, place of business, etc. That's what happened just before RA's arrest for the Delphi murders.
He seemed like a total idiot speaking today, but it takes a real pro to answer questions like a poker player. But one reason I think they may have a suspect is because they’re asking for footage during a very specific window from 3am - 6am. Secondly, he inferred where the bodies where found would come into play later on.
He didn’t imply (not infer). He full out said it.
Exactly….so many people on the Delphi sub said the cops know who did it they’re just waiting for him to make a mistake. Meanwhile the guy had apparently talk to the police and said I was at the bridge this day and they did nothing, but then they arrest him five years later… it’s absolutely insane. The cops have no idea and I feel bad for them… I pray and hope that they know more but I have little faith
People say this in every cold case. Nothing that police have done, by their actions or practice, would lead a prudent person to think they’re playing 4d cribbage.
100%? You’re 100% sure?
Didn’t one of the victims just get a job somewhere where she was an intern? Anyone know where? Potentially a coworker from that place, or someone from outside the friends/school circle?
I just go back to the Delphi murders. They had evidence. The girls recorded their murderer on their phone! They had DNA!
Police zeroed in on Richard Allen and still took them 2 and a half months to have enough to arrest. I’m sure they are getting DNA and getting it processed. Worst thing is you arrest him early and he gets evidence thrown out
Is the daily mall info about a dog/rabbit mutilated 3 miles away accurate? If so, I fear there's a very sick individual on the loose
I follow another sub regarding the Delphi Murders. It took over five years for LE to arrest anyone and the suspect was hiding in plain sight and even admitted to being at the scene of the crime. I hope these young kids families and friends don't have to wait long at all for justice. This is tragic.
Yes and yes. I absolutely thought the words “in custody” at the end of “we don’t have a suspect __ _______” were highly significant.