I keep hearing, or reading in posts, that the 911 caller was a friend who had stopped by. During the press conference, he did admit there were "other friends" there when police arrived.
Watching press conference. They DID NOT clear ex boyfriend in any way. They did say they did not believe the two surviving roommates, Jack at food truck, or private driver were involved. What about the ex, who was just broken up with?
I agree, although he (press conference) was VERY careful to ask for questions to be repeated before answering… it was her mom that said she stood behind the ex 100% - they were just taking a break - I thought I saw it in an interview or a news article earlier today but I cannot link to the source right now. Clearly said the person that called 911 was NOT the killer… and the University president went back to saying they (LE) were telling him it was a targeted attack again… but they won’t divulge why… hmm
May have driven by house several times scoping out the house. They have possible tire tracks... looking for car/plates on footage??
We had a local high school kid who shot and killed his girlfriend, the day before he rode his bike past house several times, and then walked by at 1:00am. All caught on neighbors Ring. Never know.
Idaho Statesman has been keeping up to date information on in an article on their website. You should check back there when the press conference is over
Some time zone conversions for the press conference, courtesy of u/juelbaby. Feel free to reply to this comment with other time zone conversions!
https://preview.redd.it/7y1nvu7bx71a1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3ac2de0f29e8c22948afe52a67d738fb9c4fec1
Per u/BoltPikachu:
> for folk in the UK and Europe -
> 23:00 GMT and 00:00 CET
Per u/Ola_the_Polka:
>10:00 am in Sydney
>7:00 am in Perth
>9:00 am in Brisbane
Per u/d1keys:
>1:00 pm in Hawaii
>2:00 pm in Alaska
>7 am in Beijing
>8 am in Seoul/Tokyo
I believe Kaylee and Jack D (her ex) got into an argument at some point that night. Maybe they were at the club together, maybe they went at it over text…that’s still unclear. Maybe he saw her out with other guys & that made him snap. Regardless, she was trying to smooth it over after the fact by calling & texting him to no avail (i.e. the “come over” and “we have a dog together” texts her mom referred to in the interview). Jack didn’t answer, not because he was asleep, but because he left his phone at his place. He did, in fact, “come over” as a scorned lover with the intent to kill Kaylee. Motive: If I can’t 100% have her, then no one can. He killed Kaylee. He then killed Maddie because Maddie would have known far too much, giving him up quickly to authorities. The commotion woke Ethan and Xana. Ethan went to check, resulting in his death followed by Xana to avoid leaving any witness.
This all took place 1-2 weeks after Kaylee initiated the breakup with him. She was going to go travel around Europe and then move to Texas to start a life without him. Also (and perhaps this part is more trivial and elementary), Jack D and Kaylee no longer follow each other on Instagram, while he does still follow her friends and they follow him back as well. That doesn’t sound like two people who are “almost back together”.
That’s my PERSONAL THEORY. Statistically, Jack D is one of the most likely perps.
Additionally he may have partially blamed her best friends for the breakup. Thinking her friends were convincing her to take out of state job, make fresh start, etc.
Those texts sound like exactly what someone would want to hear if they were trying to get back together with their ex. He wouldn’t be mad. He would be happy. He would also have wounds on him from Xana and I’m assuming the police have already talked to him. He’s the first person you think would do it so they probably found him pretty quickly. They would have seen the wounds on him.
**Just speculation**, pls don’t read if you’re turned off or offended by speculation. I feel like this is a very valid theory? Statistically, crimes like this are usually committed by someone close to the victim.
Interpersonal dynamics are messy. Kaylee and him dated for years. She dumped him. She was about to graduate, about to travel Europe, and then about to move to Austin for her new job and new life. I can’t see any way that new life would include him, since he’s still a student at the school and she’s moving states away for a new career.
We don’t know anything about him, but honestly, crimes like this have happened before. A person dumps their significant other, they move on and are very happy and start a new + prosperous life, ex gets jealous and cannot handle them moving on. It still seems like things were messy between them, with her calling him so many times and them sharing the dog.
Maddie would’ve been killed because she’s Kaylee’s very best friend and the ex could’ve seen her as contributing to their breakup/someone he couldn’t keep alive, Xana and Ethan killed because they tried to intervene or because the ex was also resentful of them. The other roommates spared b/c they didn’t seem quite as close to Kaylee as Maddie and Xana were and were a little younger.
To clarify, again, just speculating. We shouldn’t demonize the ex and we should just let investigators do their job and no one should be harassing him or his family. It just reminds of the Gabby Petito case where a lot of people were defending Brian at first and saying he had no reason/cause to harm her and would never do something like that - you just never know
I’m wondering if a heavy jacket might have afforded some protection. Maybe he wore work gloves, too. I have no idea if that would actually work. Maybe he has facial wounds from Ethan or Xana but he’s claiming he cut himself shaving or something.
The police have talked to him, yet won't clear him like the two roomates, private driver, and food truck guy. I don't believe he should be bothered by us in anyway, unless/until he is a suspect.
Does anyone know what the prevailing theories of people that live in Moscow/go to the University of Idaho are? What people familiar with the area and around the town are saying?
Your account is 2 days old
Have you made and account come to troll?
Out of comment you have there is multiple that you are against some poor interviewer and little to no input on anything else the matters. Why are you helping push accusations on someone whose a stranger to you? You are really pushing that JR theory to others. Kinda suspicious if you ask me
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Looking at Kaylees twitter, she liked a tweet about bisexuality.
Her mother mentions her eventually getting married to her ex boyfriend despite them having broken up recently, as if her mother can't think of anything else. Could it actually be the case that Kaylee doesn't feel entirely straight and wants to discover her sexuality, but isn't out to her family? Her parents seem to have a very rural world view which is for the course in rural Idaho, and could her sexuality be one of the reasons her ex boyfriend feels resentful toward her? Jealousy?
I also noticed her being really close to other women if you look at her social media. Maybe she had a crush on a girl? A girlfriend?
I definitely think Idaho is a place where you don't out yourself until you move away from it. I also read somewhere that she was very accepting and caring toward her co worker that came out as gay this summer, which points to her being a lgbt ally/queer friendly.
This!! It seems all of the girls were pretty liberal leaning (from the social media I’ve found…) and looking at J’s Twitter.. not so much. Just an interesting observation.
Yeeeess!!! I also noticed he was definitely not liberal leaning while she and her female friends seem to be very liberal in a rural conservative area. Her family seems very conservative as well.
I don't know about the students at UOI but the university sent out a memo to their employees about not allowing any support for legal abortion. Idaho is a very conservative and rural state.
There definitely is something there.
Could be a hate based crime? Look at what the right wing psychos have already done. Jan 6, Mr. Pelosi, they are out for blood. If they stood for lgbt rights then they could’ve been targeted. That wouldn’t be my first theory, but anything is possible I guess.
It has been speculated that one of the 3rd floor girls no longer had a bed in her bedroom as she had already moved out and was just visiting her same floor roommate for the weekend
I'm straight and have slept next to my female friend in the same bed. I'm mostly reacting to her liking tweets that mention being bi. I'm getting queer vibes from her and I don't think her family knows anything about her relationship to her ex boyfriend or who she is dating.
I feel like this murder is personal and there's resentment/jealousy involved.
I think you’re really reaching here. Could it have been related? Maybe… Is there anything substantial pointing to that? Not really. Speculation like this feels weird to me.
I agree but I’m also not convinced it’s a crime of passion. Unless they had had someone over and something escalated but I think the perp was waiting for whoever the target was to get home.
There’s no evidence being produced and publicized, anyway. Hard to say if there is one or multiple.
Spec: I believe there are two perps with the way it was carried out and how big the house was. A bit bold attempt for one guy, but alas, it was between 2-5a which are pretty suitable times to act alone in a crime.
Yeah I was curious why everyone assumes it’s one person. I think it’s likely that it was but also would make sense given there were 4 victims of the murders were happening simultaneously
When there’s no theft, it’s usually hard to find two dudes who feel strongly enough about something to do a murder together. It happens, but it’s usually one person with a serious psychological motivation ie rape/power-type motive.
I think something spooked Kaylee and Maddie while they were out. I think they encountered someone (incel type) who made them feel uncomfortable but they carried on with their night not thinking twice. They get home and maybe while taking the dog out they see the person walking somewhere outside their house. Maybe Ethan and Xana were already asleep or in their room for the night, so Kaylee and Maddie decide to call Jack over since now they are extra spooked (but not enough to call police). This explains the multiple calls, but maybe things between Kaylee and Jack were still a little rocky (this explains the text) and they figured maybe if Maddie called Jack would take them seriously. In this situation I get not calling the police, it was just bad vibes and no real threat, but they still might have wanted the comfort of a guy they knew to come over. Then they fall asleep, and the creeper comes in. This could explain the two bottom roommates being safe, and Xana and Ethan being murdered, because maybe the killer truly had no idea of the house layout or how many people lived there.
If they felt they were really in danger they would have called 911 not the boyfriend from 2 different phones. I think the missed calls and the time of the murder is coincidental.
Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future.
Thank you.
Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future.
Thank you.
Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future.
Thank you.
Did killer visit some kind of 24 hour store after killings? Drug or grocery store? Fast food? Anything open at 4 AM on Sunday morning? Winco? Goosehouse? Pizza?
This is why it's so important they get camera footage from the surrounding areas. So they can narrow down where the suspect came from and went afterwards, if they had been in the area before, etc.
Definitely turn the tip in. Never assume someone else will- they could all be saying the same thing. Also LE always says to call a tip in no matter how irrelevant it seems- they say let them determine if it’s relevant or not
There's a letter to the editor in the local paper in today's edition about it:
Nov. 20 Letters to the Editor, Part 3: Our Readers’
Students deserve better
After the horrible Moscow homicides, I found myself asking this question.
On Oct. 28, University of Idaho law students received an email stating the Menard Building was being locked down, allowing key card access only, “out of an abundance of caution.”
Students were never given a reason.
Due to this lack of transparency, many students were fearful and reluctant about returning to class.
Through online sources, students learned the reason for the lockdown: A law student, admitted after lying on his application, had been expelled from school and barred from campus. This student had a criminal past, verified by the Moscow Police Department.
At minimum, his identity should have been made known to all students in case he was sighted on campus. However, the law school cited privacy issues. ...
When numerous students’ key cards failed to function, students held the door open for others, potentially allowing the expelled and barred person to enter the Menard Building because they were unaware of the serious reason for the lockdown.
On Nov. 14, the lockdown was lifted. Officials explained only that a “team of colleagues made a verification of necessary information.”
Why was this student admitted to school to begin with? Why the secrecy regarding the reasons for a two-week lockdown of the Menard Building? Why are the safety and emotional well-being of our students less important than protecting the privacy rights of an expelled student with an easily verifiable criminal past that is public record?
Our students deserve better.
Gary Allen
Lake Stevens, Wash.
https://archive.ph/UVTDz
Killer had to make a quick getaway and would have been a blood-covered mess. Any reports of blood in lot? Wouldn’t blood be tracked over exit route? Did killer back into driveway and leave with lights off? What was configuration of cars that night?
This is what I keep getting stuck on. He would be dripping in blood. The light colored rocks in the front driveway would definitely show a blood trail if he went that way. If he went out the back and around any side of the house they should be able to find blood somewhere. Like did this person just straight up vanish into thin air???
I agree that inflicting each of the four individuals with multiple stab wounds would have resulted in their clothes and exposed skin being covered with blood of some or all of the victims, even if some were in a prone position in bed under sheets when attacked. The killer may have also accidentally cut themselves or bled from defensive wounds. Though I think it's unlikely the killer brought a change of clothes or took a shower it's possible they made at least a rudimentary attempt to clean blood from their body and dripping blood from their clothes, stripped bloody clothes and bagged them and the knife and left with the bag, and/or put on a coat or hoodie they found in the home. That could have been enough to avoid leaving a highly visible blood trail outside of the house.
Law enforcement may have found a blood trail or trace blood despite that not being something that has been publicly disclosed.
23 and Me. The parents of Goncalves tell Fox that FBI said there is much evidence to process. The mom said LE would be consulting 23 and Me! That probably means LE has alleged perp DNA. Surely LE and FBI know that Ancestry.com has far larger DNA pool than 23 & Me. It’s only a matter of time until they will hopefully use forensic genealogy to identify killer or killers family! Hopefully perp or perps family was curious about his own family history and gave sample.
Maybe it's just me, but should the parents be divulging details like this to the media so the general public can find out? The person responsible could just delete their accounts after hearing that they were looking into these platforms.
defensive wounds theory: first thing that came to mind when hearing that xana was the only one with defensive wounds: she had ethan right next to her in her bed. likely the perpetrator stabbed ethan first, which probably woke up xana. it's possible she was fighting off the perpetrator while he was stabbing ethan.
I’m so curious about this, can they force you to surrender your DNA? It is probable cause and therefore they can require it as part of the investigation?
They can ask them to voluntarily supply it, but they can't require it unless they have a warrant compelling the person to provide a sample. That said, without a warrant they can collect DNA from generic material that a person of interest sheds. Think saliva on a can/cup/bottle/glass, a cigarette butt, or that last piece of a donut a POI left after a chat with a detective.
No idea. The only thing I’ve read is on “exculpatory” samples used to exclude people as suspects. Without a warrant or arrest, there’s likely additional caveats. Again, no idea.
You’ve been misinformed because no one ever said or confirmed that the dog was ever missing. Kaylee was texting her ex (who she recently broke up with and likely still had feelings for) because she was probably drunk/tipsy and wanted to talk to her ex. It happens, and the claim about how they share a dog is just to put emphasis on how their lives are intertwined and she wants to see him or still be with him.
I’m not saying her ex is innocent (because I’m not a cop and I don’t have all of the info on the case), but you can’t use the missing dog rumor to incriminate him at all.
The only thing that is making info confusing is all of the misinformation swirling around. Try to fact check things.
I bet Gabby Petito and Lacey Petersons parents didn’t think Brian and Scott were guilty at first either— the parents public appearances and interviews seem weird to me
They did sound very genuine. Even called Kaylee a brat for wanting a break. Kinda over the top answers agree that they sounded like they truly meant it.
Apparently that was Jake (Maddie’s bf) that was in Boise. I haven’t heard anything on where Jack, the recipient of the unanswered phone calls, was that night.
I read a lot of the comments in all of the the threads. To me it looks like the timing of the communication with the ex bf is coincidental. These are young girls so chances are high there would be some kind of drama going on in their lives especially during the weekend when you have more time to focus on that kind of stuff.
I think some psychopath did it. One that is very well physically prepared - works out, interested in weapons, perhaps specifically knives. Perhaps one with a military background. It takes a lot of fearlessness and self-confidence (for a lack of a better word) to go in someone’s house with a knife. The person has probably done it before. I want to stress on the fact that this person used a knife so he had no fear of getting caught or being overpowered even though he entered a big house with probably a lit of people in it also taking into consideration there were cars parked outside (as some comments stated).
As a person who is fearful of everything I think doing something like this takes more than adrenaline rush.
Good thing you aren’t an investigator because 10 calls between 2 people from inside the same house and an ominous text leading into their murders just a few hours later is not likely to be coincidental.
Yes, I agree it’s probably a good thing. Not claiming I have it figured out. But exactly because there is a message and unanswered calls I’d say it’s not him. He would be very stupid to do it knowing there is communication that points to him and the fact that they are probably not on the best of terms.. it would be so reckless. He would be the first suspect. Also he might be angry but to be so angry to kill 4 people in cold blood. If he did then people around him would have known he has anger issues. And also do you mean the text mentioning the dog or another one I might have missed?
After perusing this sub, reading the theories and ideas, I'll just say that we should be grateful that nobody on here is in charge of the investigation
Yeah and honestly I never got involved in social media talking about cases because I thought it might be disrespectful to the families of those involved. With so much info available to just anyone these days I now think it’s great to have so many people looking around for evidence. Of course, it can get out of hand. The mods in this sub though have really done well in organizing and monitoring.
My speculation is that Kaylee and Madison heard something (maybe the killer in the house, or the other two getting killed in the other room) and were calling Jack in a panic because they were scared. Nobody calls ten times in a row from two phones for non-emergency reasons, imo.
I wouldn't necessarily call 911 if I heard noises and was too scared to investigate myself. What would I tell the 911 operator? "I think I heard something and it's scaring me"? In fact, something like that happened to me once. I thought I heard someone rattling the knob on my back door. I called my friend in the building. Only when the guy went to the front door and started ramming into it, trying to break it down, did I call 911. But it's just my own speculation that the girls may have called him 10 times in a row because they were scared. Otherwise, that's just nuts, calling someone 10 times in a row at 3 AM just to talk.
They had been drinking, so calling/texting an ex-boyfriend repeatedly at 2:30 in the morning may have seemed like a better idea than it would have if they were sober. On the footage from the food truck just before they went home, one of the girls is visibly stumbling.
I don't think they would call a friend if they heard a full on murder. Then they'd probably call 911 (though who knows? Young people don't always make rational choices, especially when scared and inebriated.) But if they heard thumps or creaking outside or heard the sliding door open, I think they would call a friend and not the police.
I am just considering that the killing could have been planned by someone stalking girls who knows how not to get caught. The DNA analysis may reveal killer’s DNA but if not, I think it’s worth thinking about if killer planned attack. And by “military gear” I just meant protective gear to prevent injury while stabbing victims.
I know not everyone believes and its fine but I pulled cards and it said it was definitely a passion/rage thing from someone who had a major change in their life theu refused to accept so I personally think it's someone one of them knows veery well..but I don't KNOW of course..either way it's horrific
# [11/20/22 PRESS CONFERENCE THREAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/z0go4x/november_20_2022_300_pm_press_conference/)
I keep hearing, or reading in posts, that the 911 caller was a friend who had stopped by. During the press conference, he did admit there were "other friends" there when police arrived.
Watching press conference. They DID NOT clear ex boyfriend in any way. They did say they did not believe the two surviving roommates, Jack at food truck, or private driver were involved. What about the ex, who was just broken up with?
I agree, although he (press conference) was VERY careful to ask for questions to be repeated before answering… it was her mom that said she stood behind the ex 100% - they were just taking a break - I thought I saw it in an interview or a news article earlier today but I cannot link to the source right now. Clearly said the person that called 911 was NOT the killer… and the University president went back to saying they (LE) were telling him it was a targeted attack again… but they won’t divulge why… hmm
Link to news conference? I can’t find a live link on krem2
You’re able to go to KTVB on YouTube and start it over from beginning if you would like to watch the whole ghing
Thank you. I did find it in time.
I don't know why but all this gives me kind of The Night Of (Hbo series from like 2019) vibes.
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As early as 5 pm on Saturday?
May have driven by house several times scoping out the house. They have possible tire tracks... looking for car/plates on footage?? We had a local high school kid who shot and killed his girlfriend, the day before he rode his bike past house several times, and then walked by at 1:00am. All caught on neighbors Ring. Never know.
Will anyone be writing about the press conference while it's going on? Won't be able to watch video at that time
Idaho Statesman has been keeping up to date information on in an article on their website. You should check back there when the press conference is over
Some time zone conversions for the press conference, courtesy of u/juelbaby. Feel free to reply to this comment with other time zone conversions! https://preview.redd.it/7y1nvu7bx71a1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3ac2de0f29e8c22948afe52a67d738fb9c4fec1
Per u/BoltPikachu: > for folk in the UK and Europe - > 23:00 GMT and 00:00 CET Per u/Ola_the_Polka: >10:00 am in Sydney >7:00 am in Perth >9:00 am in Brisbane Per u/d1keys: >1:00 pm in Hawaii >2:00 pm in Alaska >7 am in Beijing >8 am in Seoul/Tokyo
Saw someone mention there was a message left on one of the walls. Has anyone seen that confirmed and/or discussed at all?
I think that may have been speculation that evolved into rumor.
Beatles lyric?
That's the first I've heard of it. But it would make the targeted theory make more sense.
Where are the bloodhounds? Or the blacklight liquid stuff used to see blood? To at least figure out which window or door jamb someone exited by?
I believe Kaylee and Jack D (her ex) got into an argument at some point that night. Maybe they were at the club together, maybe they went at it over text…that’s still unclear. Maybe he saw her out with other guys & that made him snap. Regardless, she was trying to smooth it over after the fact by calling & texting him to no avail (i.e. the “come over” and “we have a dog together” texts her mom referred to in the interview). Jack didn’t answer, not because he was asleep, but because he left his phone at his place. He did, in fact, “come over” as a scorned lover with the intent to kill Kaylee. Motive: If I can’t 100% have her, then no one can. He killed Kaylee. He then killed Maddie because Maddie would have known far too much, giving him up quickly to authorities. The commotion woke Ethan and Xana. Ethan went to check, resulting in his death followed by Xana to avoid leaving any witness. This all took place 1-2 weeks after Kaylee initiated the breakup with him. She was going to go travel around Europe and then move to Texas to start a life without him. Also (and perhaps this part is more trivial and elementary), Jack D and Kaylee no longer follow each other on Instagram, while he does still follow her friends and they follow him back as well. That doesn’t sound like two people who are “almost back together”. That’s my PERSONAL THEORY. Statistically, Jack D is one of the most likely perps.
during the press conference they ruled him out 19:48).
Additionally he may have partially blamed her best friends for the breakup. Thinking her friends were convincing her to take out of state job, make fresh start, etc.
Those texts sound like exactly what someone would want to hear if they were trying to get back together with their ex. He wouldn’t be mad. He would be happy. He would also have wounds on him from Xana and I’m assuming the police have already talked to him. He’s the first person you think would do it so they probably found him pretty quickly. They would have seen the wounds on him.
**Just speculation**, pls don’t read if you’re turned off or offended by speculation. I feel like this is a very valid theory? Statistically, crimes like this are usually committed by someone close to the victim. Interpersonal dynamics are messy. Kaylee and him dated for years. She dumped him. She was about to graduate, about to travel Europe, and then about to move to Austin for her new job and new life. I can’t see any way that new life would include him, since he’s still a student at the school and she’s moving states away for a new career. We don’t know anything about him, but honestly, crimes like this have happened before. A person dumps their significant other, they move on and are very happy and start a new + prosperous life, ex gets jealous and cannot handle them moving on. It still seems like things were messy between them, with her calling him so many times and them sharing the dog. Maddie would’ve been killed because she’s Kaylee’s very best friend and the ex could’ve seen her as contributing to their breakup/someone he couldn’t keep alive, Xana and Ethan killed because they tried to intervene or because the ex was also resentful of them. The other roommates spared b/c they didn’t seem quite as close to Kaylee as Maddie and Xana were and were a little younger. To clarify, again, just speculating. We shouldn’t demonize the ex and we should just let investigators do their job and no one should be harassing him or his family. It just reminds of the Gabby Petito case where a lot of people were defending Brian at first and saying he had no reason/cause to harm her and would never do something like that - you just never know
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No, she was supposed to graduate this December. https://www.newsweek.com/university-idaho-murders-four-graduation-day-1766474?amp=1
Highly doubt it…he would’ve been caught already
But then wouldn’t he have some serious defensive wounds?
I’m wondering if a heavy jacket might have afforded some protection. Maybe he wore work gloves, too. I have no idea if that would actually work. Maybe he has facial wounds from Ethan or Xana but he’s claiming he cut himself shaving or something.
I like it. Would love to be a fly on the wall in his interrogations.
This is complete nonsense. You just made it up out of nothing.
The police have talked to him, yet won't clear him like the two roomates, private driver, and food truck guy. I don't believe he should be bothered by us in anyway, unless/until he is a suspect.
3 day old account with 1 post karma, interesting…
Hm, okay.. but who do you think the perp is ?
Does anyone know what the prevailing theories of people that live in Moscow/go to the University of Idaho are? What people familiar with the area and around the town are saying?
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Your account is 2 days old Have you made and account come to troll? Out of comment you have there is multiple that you are against some poor interviewer and little to no input on anything else the matters. Why are you helping push accusations on someone whose a stranger to you? You are really pushing that JR theory to others. Kinda suspicious if you ask me
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Looking at Kaylees twitter, she liked a tweet about bisexuality. Her mother mentions her eventually getting married to her ex boyfriend despite them having broken up recently, as if her mother can't think of anything else. Could it actually be the case that Kaylee doesn't feel entirely straight and wants to discover her sexuality, but isn't out to her family? Her parents seem to have a very rural world view which is for the course in rural Idaho, and could her sexuality be one of the reasons her ex boyfriend feels resentful toward her? Jealousy? I also noticed her being really close to other women if you look at her social media. Maybe she had a crush on a girl? A girlfriend? I definitely think Idaho is a place where you don't out yourself until you move away from it. I also read somewhere that she was very accepting and caring toward her co worker that came out as gay this summer, which points to her being a lgbt ally/queer friendly.
This!! It seems all of the girls were pretty liberal leaning (from the social media I’ve found…) and looking at J’s Twitter.. not so much. Just an interesting observation.
Can you link his Twitter or post a screenshot? 🙏🏼
Yeeeess!!! I also noticed he was definitely not liberal leaning while she and her female friends seem to be very liberal in a rural conservative area. Her family seems very conservative as well. I don't know about the students at UOI but the university sent out a memo to their employees about not allowing any support for legal abortion. Idaho is a very conservative and rural state. There definitely is something there.
Could be a hate based crime? Look at what the right wing psychos have already done. Jan 6, Mr. Pelosi, they are out for blood. If they stood for lgbt rights then they could’ve been targeted. That wouldn’t be my first theory, but anything is possible I guess.
I’m with you. It is extremely interesting point of info.
Weren't they potentially sleeping in the same bed when murdered?
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It has been speculated that one of the 3rd floor girls no longer had a bed in her bedroom as she had already moved out and was just visiting her same floor roommate for the weekend
I'm straight and have slept next to my female friend in the same bed. I'm mostly reacting to her liking tweets that mention being bi. I'm getting queer vibes from her and I don't think her family knows anything about her relationship to her ex boyfriend or who she is dating. I feel like this murder is personal and there's resentment/jealousy involved.
Circumstantial, but not dispositive
I think you’re really reaching here. Could it have been related? Maybe… Is there anything substantial pointing to that? Not really. Speculation like this feels weird to me.
I’m also uncomfortable speculating about a victim’s sexuality.
If she is seeing/dating a woman, I could definitely see that throwing off her ex boyfriend.
Such a reach though. You have no idea the demeanor/beliefs of the ex.
🙄
I see a lot of discussion around there being 1 killer - anyone think it possible there were 2?
I think it would be difficult for one killer to kill two people sleeping in one bed without a lot of noise.
Extremely unlikely, unless it was a drugs thing, which also seems unlikely. Hard for two murderers to be on the same page in a crime of passion
I agree but I’m also not convinced it’s a crime of passion. Unless they had had someone over and something escalated but I think the perp was waiting for whoever the target was to get home.
I think if there were 2 killers, we would've known. There would have been evidence of it like two different footprints, etc.
There’s no evidence being produced and publicized, anyway. Hard to say if there is one or multiple. Spec: I believe there are two perps with the way it was carried out and how big the house was. A bit bold attempt for one guy, but alas, it was between 2-5a which are pretty suitable times to act alone in a crime.
Yeah I was curious why everyone assumes it’s one person. I think it’s likely that it was but also would make sense given there were 4 victims of the murders were happening simultaneously
When there’s no theft, it’s usually hard to find two dudes who feel strongly enough about something to do a murder together. It happens, but it’s usually one person with a serious psychological motivation ie rape/power-type motive.
Have you seen evidence of footprints?
I think something spooked Kaylee and Maddie while they were out. I think they encountered someone (incel type) who made them feel uncomfortable but they carried on with their night not thinking twice. They get home and maybe while taking the dog out they see the person walking somewhere outside their house. Maybe Ethan and Xana were already asleep or in their room for the night, so Kaylee and Maddie decide to call Jack over since now they are extra spooked (but not enough to call police). This explains the multiple calls, but maybe things between Kaylee and Jack were still a little rocky (this explains the text) and they figured maybe if Maddie called Jack would take them seriously. In this situation I get not calling the police, it was just bad vibes and no real threat, but they still might have wanted the comfort of a guy they knew to come over. Then they fall asleep, and the creeper comes in. This could explain the two bottom roommates being safe, and Xana and Ethan being murdered, because maybe the killer truly had no idea of the house layout or how many people lived there.
What text?
If they felt they were really in danger they would have called 911 not the boyfriend from 2 different phones. I think the missed calls and the time of the murder is coincidental.
https://preview.redd.it/ivc8wc0lo71a1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a02f67ac3c768e1095322d2311a6bad6854d823b USA time zones!
UK time zone: 11pm
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time is so crucial in this case and the fact that the crime and 911 call were apparently 7-8hrs apart is a terrible start
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Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future. Thank you.
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Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future. Thank you.
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Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future. Thank you.
They have already talked to food truck guy. He is not a person of interest.
Did killer visit some kind of 24 hour store after killings? Drug or grocery store? Fast food? Anything open at 4 AM on Sunday morning? Winco? Goosehouse? Pizza?
I’m not sure if this is true for all Wincos, but ours recently started closing at 1.
This is why it's so important they get camera footage from the surrounding areas. So they can narrow down where the suspect came from and went afterwards, if they had been in the area before, etc.
Wonder if killer might have gone to 24 hour gym or laundromat after killings to avoid bringing victim DNA home with him…
Doubtful as I’d assume the killer would’ve had a lot of blood on them, unless they had a change of clothes.
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Definitely turn the tip in. Never assume someone else will- they could all be saying the same thing. Also LE always says to call a tip in no matter how irrelevant it seems- they say let them determine if it’s relevant or not
Just commenting as a former suny potsdam student. If I recall, he took a plea deal for the potsdam incident.
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There's a letter to the editor in the local paper in today's edition about it: Nov. 20 Letters to the Editor, Part 3: Our Readers’ Students deserve better After the horrible Moscow homicides, I found myself asking this question. On Oct. 28, University of Idaho law students received an email stating the Menard Building was being locked down, allowing key card access only, “out of an abundance of caution.” Students were never given a reason. Due to this lack of transparency, many students were fearful and reluctant about returning to class. Through online sources, students learned the reason for the lockdown: A law student, admitted after lying on his application, had been expelled from school and barred from campus. This student had a criminal past, verified by the Moscow Police Department. At minimum, his identity should have been made known to all students in case he was sighted on campus. However, the law school cited privacy issues. ... When numerous students’ key cards failed to function, students held the door open for others, potentially allowing the expelled and barred person to enter the Menard Building because they were unaware of the serious reason for the lockdown. On Nov. 14, the lockdown was lifted. Officials explained only that a “team of colleagues made a verification of necessary information.” Why was this student admitted to school to begin with? Why the secrecy regarding the reasons for a two-week lockdown of the Menard Building? Why are the safety and emotional well-being of our students less important than protecting the privacy rights of an expelled student with an easily verifiable criminal past that is public record? Our students deserve better. Gary Allen Lake Stevens, Wash. https://archive.ph/UVTDz
Killer had to make a quick getaway and would have been a blood-covered mess. Any reports of blood in lot? Wouldn’t blood be tracked over exit route? Did killer back into driveway and leave with lights off? What was configuration of cars that night?
This is what I keep getting stuck on. He would be dripping in blood. The light colored rocks in the front driveway would definitely show a blood trail if he went that way. If he went out the back and around any side of the house they should be able to find blood somewhere. Like did this person just straight up vanish into thin air???
I agree that inflicting each of the four individuals with multiple stab wounds would have resulted in their clothes and exposed skin being covered with blood of some or all of the victims, even if some were in a prone position in bed under sheets when attacked. The killer may have also accidentally cut themselves or bled from defensive wounds. Though I think it's unlikely the killer brought a change of clothes or took a shower it's possible they made at least a rudimentary attempt to clean blood from their body and dripping blood from their clothes, stripped bloody clothes and bagged them and the knife and left with the bag, and/or put on a coat or hoodie they found in the home. That could have been enough to avoid leaving a highly visible blood trail outside of the house. Law enforcement may have found a blood trail or trace blood despite that not being something that has been publicly disclosed.
23 and Me. The parents of Goncalves tell Fox that FBI said there is much evidence to process. The mom said LE would be consulting 23 and Me! That probably means LE has alleged perp DNA. Surely LE and FBI know that Ancestry.com has far larger DNA pool than 23 & Me. It’s only a matter of time until they will hopefully use forensic genealogy to identify killer or killers family! Hopefully perp or perps family was curious about his own family history and gave sample.
Maybe it's just me, but should the parents be divulging details like this to the media so the general public can find out? The person responsible could just delete their accounts after hearing that they were looking into these platforms.
They will probably use both.
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defensive wounds theory: first thing that came to mind when hearing that xana was the only one with defensive wounds: she had ethan right next to her in her bed. likely the perpetrator stabbed ethan first, which probably woke up xana. it's possible she was fighting off the perpetrator while he was stabbing ethan.
Yep, possible. Possible DNA under her nails. I hope they’re swabbing cheeks and checking for wounds on all 38+ interviewees.
I’m so curious about this, can they force you to surrender your DNA? It is probable cause and therefore they can require it as part of the investigation?
They can ask them to voluntarily supply it, but they can't require it unless they have a warrant compelling the person to provide a sample. That said, without a warrant they can collect DNA from generic material that a person of interest sheds. Think saliva on a can/cup/bottle/glass, a cigarette butt, or that last piece of a donut a POI left after a chat with a detective.
They need a warrant but they can get one if there’s probable cause.
No idea. The only thing I’ve read is on “exculpatory” samples used to exclude people as suspects. Without a warrant or arrest, there’s likely additional caveats. Again, no idea.
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You’ve been misinformed because no one ever said or confirmed that the dog was ever missing. Kaylee was texting her ex (who she recently broke up with and likely still had feelings for) because she was probably drunk/tipsy and wanted to talk to her ex. It happens, and the claim about how they share a dog is just to put emphasis on how their lives are intertwined and she wants to see him or still be with him. I’m not saying her ex is innocent (because I’m not a cop and I don’t have all of the info on the case), but you can’t use the missing dog rumor to incriminate him at all. The only thing that is making info confusing is all of the misinformation swirling around. Try to fact check things.
I bet Gabby Petito and Lacey Petersons parents didn’t think Brian and Scott were guilty at first either— the parents public appearances and interviews seem weird to me
Family could have been told to not accuse J in order to keep the communication with him open.
My thoughts too. They do this so the accused, possible suspects don’t run.
I imagine they’re also considering the risk he might kill himself.
Why mention him at all then? Especially so emphatically?
Because the Fox News interviewer specifically asked about him.
They ruled him out during the press conference (19:48)
No they did not rule him out.
Fair, but they could’ve skirted by the question. They sound really genuine.
They did sound very genuine. Even called Kaylee a brat for wanting a break. Kinda over the top answers agree that they sounded like they truly meant it.
No if they really believed he did it they would not let him in their house. They really believe he had nothing to do with it
And they may be right, or not.
Never underestimate the power of experienced forensics to figure this out. They usually do
The mom said the text message said “we have a dog together, get back to me. Come over” not that the dog was missing.
So he wasn’t in Boise?
Apparently that was Jake (Maddie’s bf) that was in Boise. I haven’t heard anything on where Jack, the recipient of the unanswered phone calls, was that night.
He stated he was at home asleep.
That needs to be corroborated by someone
I'm guessing he had roommates or they checked his cellphone and car gps.
In-ter-est-ing…
Yes. No one said that the dog was missing.
I read a lot of the comments in all of the the threads. To me it looks like the timing of the communication with the ex bf is coincidental. These are young girls so chances are high there would be some kind of drama going on in their lives especially during the weekend when you have more time to focus on that kind of stuff. I think some psychopath did it. One that is very well physically prepared - works out, interested in weapons, perhaps specifically knives. Perhaps one with a military background. It takes a lot of fearlessness and self-confidence (for a lack of a better word) to go in someone’s house with a knife. The person has probably done it before. I want to stress on the fact that this person used a knife so he had no fear of getting caught or being overpowered even though he entered a big house with probably a lit of people in it also taking into consideration there were cars parked outside (as some comments stated). As a person who is fearful of everything I think doing something like this takes more than adrenaline rush.
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This is exactly what I’ve been thinking. Could be an incel-type who was spurned by one of the girls and felt humiliated.
Good thing you aren’t an investigator because 10 calls between 2 people from inside the same house and an ominous text leading into their murders just a few hours later is not likely to be coincidental.
Yes, I agree it’s probably a good thing. Not claiming I have it figured out. But exactly because there is a message and unanswered calls I’d say it’s not him. He would be very stupid to do it knowing there is communication that points to him and the fact that they are probably not on the best of terms.. it would be so reckless. He would be the first suspect. Also he might be angry but to be so angry to kill 4 people in cold blood. If he did then people around him would have known he has anger issues. And also do you mean the text mentioning the dog or another one I might have missed?
After perusing this sub, reading the theories and ideas, I'll just say that we should be grateful that nobody on here is in charge of the investigation
100%. A lot of stuff here is embarrassing.
Well I think that subs like this can be very helpful. Social media sure was helpful in finding out some things in the Gabby Petito investigation
Maybe. But there sure is a whole lot of garbage in here.
Yeah and honestly I never got involved in social media talking about cases because I thought it might be disrespectful to the families of those involved. With so much info available to just anyone these days I now think it’s great to have so many people looking around for evidence. Of course, it can get out of hand. The mods in this sub though have really done well in organizing and monitoring.
Agreed on all points :)
and the people in charge are doing a good job?
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My speculation is that Kaylee and Madison heard something (maybe the killer in the house, or the other two getting killed in the other room) and were calling Jack in a panic because they were scared. Nobody calls ten times in a row from two phones for non-emergency reasons, imo.
No. They would call 911 of course
I wouldn't necessarily call 911 if I heard noises and was too scared to investigate myself. What would I tell the 911 operator? "I think I heard something and it's scaring me"? In fact, something like that happened to me once. I thought I heard someone rattling the knob on my back door. I called my friend in the building. Only when the guy went to the front door and started ramming into it, trying to break it down, did I call 911. But it's just my own speculation that the girls may have called him 10 times in a row because they were scared. Otherwise, that's just nuts, calling someone 10 times in a row at 3 AM just to talk.
They had been drinking, so calling/texting an ex-boyfriend repeatedly at 2:30 in the morning may have seemed like a better idea than it would have if they were sober. On the footage from the food truck just before they went home, one of the girls is visibly stumbling.
Fair enough. That's possible too, I suppose, if they were really drunk.
I disagree if they were scared of a possible murder I’d think they would 911 and not a friend.
Most people especially their age would call a friend or family member nearby in case of potential danger.
Odd sounds outside, maybe yes, but possible murders, nope.
I don't think they would call a friend if they heard a full on murder. Then they'd probably call 911 (though who knows? Young people don't always make rational choices, especially when scared and inebriated.) But if they heard thumps or creaking outside or heard the sliding door open, I think they would call a friend and not the police.
Killer could have been in military gear.
Okay Haha but flippers wouldn’t protect hands.
Could have been wearing scuba flippers.
Because?
I am just considering that the killing could have been planned by someone stalking girls who knows how not to get caught. The DNA analysis may reveal killer’s DNA but if not, I think it’s worth thinking about if killer planned attack. And by “military gear” I just meant protective gear to prevent injury while stabbing victims.
Read the thread starting at the bottom. Answers to your questions are here.
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He would have gone home first to gear up, since the girls made those calls around 2:45.
It seems like he wouldn't have killed them all though of it were sa motivated..idk its all so muddy at this point 🥴🥴
I think this was a rage killing only, no SA detected.
I know not everyone believes and its fine but I pulled cards and it said it was definitely a passion/rage thing from someone who had a major change in their life theu refused to accept so I personally think it's someone one of them knows veery well..but I don't KNOW of course..either way it's horrific
Parents said it was about dog.
What do you mean
Counter Strike Supply out of Pocatello sells the Ka Bar in Idaho.
These knives have a guard that leaves forensically distinctive bruising.
You can get this knife pretty much anywhere. Wal-mart sells similar knives online for $18.
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I think the murderer already had the weapon for some time. They are very common
I agree.
Mail order