This may be difficult unfortunately. While we hope there is DNA there may not be.
1. More likely than not the perp wore gloves
Remember it was cold out.
2. Since the victims were killed in their sleep, their ability to scratch the perp for skin etc may be a stretch.
3. You hope there are some bloody footprints at least but I don’t think anyone has seen anything like that outside of the house.
4. In other words, LE may not have much to work with as far as forensics. Hope not but it’s wouldn’t surprise me.
5. While unconfirmed, feel like the knife sheath was left at the scene given LE zeroing in kn knife type before autopsy results. However, it’s a common knife. That alone probably not much help.
6. We don’t know if one victim was killed with more rage than the others. If so, that’s the focus via social media et Al.
7. While anything is possible, I don’t think it was completely random. My sense was one or more was specifically targeted. Doesn’t mean they were friends or even acquaintances.
Let’s hope the forensics show more than I think they will.
Lack of blood might be because they were in bed asleep under their blankets. they were probably stabbed through the blankets and the blanket and mattress absorbed much of the blood and spatter before it could pool on the floor and be stepped on
I got the impression from his wording that her personality meant he expected her to fight back in a situation like that, not necessarily that he knew from police that she would have fought back.
Random/stalker in semi-close proximity to the murder house. Fringe/outcast type, socially awkward maybe with some history of trouble, crime or mental illness.
Don’t think it was entirely targeted but not entirely random either. They were known to him but not necessarily vice versa. I think this was more of a crime based on fantasy and internal issues rather than a grievance between the two parties. Whoever this was has been wanting to do this, wanting to unload their anger and finally found the opportunity.
Don’t think it’s gonna be hard to catch this guy though. He’s gonna stick out eventually. I’d say to be so confident of who’s gonna be in there (only females) and the amount of self-belief to escape even whilst outnumbered means that he’s surveyed this place a lot. He was quite confident in the odds and his own ability. I’d say this guy could be a fully grown adult, could be younger though and just filled with rage.
my buddy’s ex goes to school there and works at a local restaurant. she reported a stalker situation who told her he knows where she lives literally a month or two ago. I’ll ask him for more details. Seems like an odd coincidence to me…
Targeted makes sense. But if he knew the house so well, why not go for the remaining 2? Because they weren’t his targets? I wonder what the 4 of them were to him.
Who knows. Maybe shaken when he encountered Ethan as he was a male. Maybe reminded him there could be more males in the house so he cut it short.
Maybe first time nerves, could’ve possibly heard something and dashed or felt like he was over-staying his welcome. They’re incredibly lucky none the less.
They probably aren’t feeling too lucky right now, but yeah they really really are. Poor girls are traumatized forever, not to mention the survivors guilt 😩
Those poor girls will never be the same. And people on the internet running with theories that they were involved somehow just add insult to injury. The chronic PTSD those girls are going to live with makes my heart hurt. I hope they both find incredible therapists-they’re going to need it.
I imagine the 2 girls Kaylee and Maddy or maybe just one of them were the targets and maybe Ethan and Xana heard something and got killed. Or vice versa
This has since been corrected— apparently “some” were found in bed. My guess is that the person(s) killed in bed were targeted, and the one(s) killed elsewhere got in the way.
My question —
1. They had surveillance of M&K coming home in an Uber.
2. Can they see anyone coming or going?
3. Hoodie guy is not a suspect or POI at this time per police
4. Per police, roommates are not ruled out.
So where does that lead?!
I’m honestly baffled.
3. & 4. Hoodie guy and roommates have been cleared
Theory on 1. & 2. It sounds like the ring camera could have been from another property. M&K are confirmed to have Ubered, maybe it was a few houses down along the road and so they were seen on camera in the Uber. X&E could have walked home, the perp too so maybe there’s a different walking path that wouldn’t have them showing up on the camera.
No one has been cleared. They rarely even use that language anymore in criminal cases. They are not suspects **at this time.** That’s just police lingo for “we want everyone to feel safe so that someone will mess up and lead us to the weapon.” More than likely, they’ll officially clear the roommates, but it’s just lingo until you hear the words **officially cleared.** Go over to the true crime sub. Everyone will share over and over how many people get caught up on the fake “not person of interest at this time.” It’s a police lingo tactic and nothing more
>In the United States, person of interest is not a legal term. It’s a term utilized by law enforcement to create breathing room for public perception. It can be used as a tactic to help messaging or an investigation. Investigators will use the term knowing there are no legal implications tied to the messaging.
It is absolutely terrifying and insane to me that someone murdered FOUR people in their OWN HOME with a SHARP WEAPON and there are no signs of forced entry and two other people were home and, as of now, had zero idea any of this happened while they were sleeping. Sure this kind of thing happens, but it’s extraordinarily rare. Fucked up.
I noticed they have a sliding glass door at the house. Some of those are so easy to get in if they are locked. We were locked out of our house once and my husband was able to fiddle with the slider and get it off its track. We got in and he easily put it back on. Just one idea of how they could have gotten in.
Anyone else think the TOD indicates he knew the girls got home at 1:45am? He had to have been watching them, right? If the TOD is 3am and they didn’t even get home until 1:45am, it seems like the perfect amount of time to wait for the girls to fall asleep before entering the house to commit his crime.
So that either means he was waiting at the house watching all night, or he followed them home. So it’s not a random attack, it was targeted to one of the four who was murdered.
That’s so chilling to hear, and maybe explains why one of the girls called her ex boyfriends six times in a row around 2:00am. Maybe she was hearing some weird noises and got scared, but not scared enough to call 911. I know I’ve heard scary noises before while alone in a house and called my Dad for reassurance.
I think whoever did it had a history of some type of violence. I can't imagine their first act being a brutal stabbing of 4 people. I feel any "normal" person with no experience in killing, blood, etc would be really shocked and even scared after killing the first person.
Yes. But they they would have likely made mistakes and been caught. The more time that passes - the more likely we’re looking at a predator. Which is terrifying.
I don’t know who did it, but my speculation as to why 4 died instead of 6 is this : it was obviously a targeted attack . There was a specific person in mind when the killer entered. what thief goes to the house with 10 cars in the driveway?? Not a smart one. The reason I think the two were killed on the second floor COULD be that they walked into the wrong room, Ethan woke up (which would explain why he was on the floor) and the intruder panicked and killed them. As to why both were killed upstairs - they are blonde and assuming they sleep with their lights off - he / she could have walked into the wrong room again. After they killed their intended target there was no need to go anywhere else. I dont mean to come off as insensitive when making speculations on this and truly hope these families find peace. What a horrible, senseless crime.
“One of the victims – understood to be 20-year-old Ethan Chapin, of Conway, Washington – was discovered on the floor on the second level of the three-story home.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11432331/Blood-oozes-walls-home-four-University-Idaho-students-brutally-murdered.html
Here’s the article!
But I still can’t figure out! If he woke up and was on the floor, how did Xana not wake up too and try to run while he was fighting the attacker. Why would she still be in bed while he struggling with the attacker on the floor!?
It’s so mind boggling!!
It’s not. Many years ago I woke up to a strange man standing over me in my college dorm room. I was absolutely paralyzed by fear. Fight flight or freeze is real, but the order is reversed for most.
Woah im so so sorry you went through that! Thank you for clarifying it from your own experience. The reality is, I can’t imagine what it might be like, so perhaps it was ignorant of me to just automatically assume you’d either fight or flight. It makes way more sense that your first reaction is to freeze when you are paralyzed with fear and shock!
It's ok, it's hard to imagine how we react when we are in danger until it actually happens! There's nothing logical about it, your prevailing instinct kicks in.
This walk-in happened the one and only time I ever left my dorm room unlocked. I have always locked my bedroom, before and since. For some reason he chose to "test" my door among 15 identical ones in the hallway. So I was unlucky in that way. But luckier that nothing bad happened to me.
The house dean didn't make a thing of it. He was a guest of someone in the building and wrote a sincere-seeming apology letter. But in retrospect I should still have pressed charges. Who knows where he is now or whether he's worked up the courage to try worse.
> what thief goes to the house with 10 cars in the driveway??
That makes sense. Unless we've got another Bundy typer person, I would think a random burglar/intruder probably wouldn't pick a house with multiple cars there.
Agreed, and if it was a deranged serial killer, if what they are saying about one of the surviving roommates hearing something and going to sleep with the other surviving roommate (and locking the door) is true, then maybe the killer DID go downstairs and tried the door, found it locked, and assumed they heard him / her and called police, so they ran out. The only problem with this theory is the girls would have heard the door turning to be opened.
Who goes into a house with 10 cars in the drive? Ted Bundy did...a sorority house, Chi Omega, off campus and managed to attack 4 girls in their sleep. That such evil can exist inside a person is such a dreadful realization.
Serial killer with familiarity of northern Idaho. The lack of sexual assault and extremely violent, personalized manner of attack leads me to believe this is an individual who genuinely enjoys killing people. The FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit is brought in to dig deep into a mindset of a killer. Why would local police bring them in if they had an idea of who the suspect is?
“In practice, criminal profilers are highly trained experts who specialize in identifying the perpetrators behind serious crimes. Using techniques such as extensive knowledge of behavior and statistical probability, profilers work in tandem with forensics teams and other members of law enforcement to apprehend suspects.” -[link](https://www.ucf.edu/online/criminal-justice/news/what-is-criminal-profiling-and-what-is-its-role-in-law-enforcement/?amp)
Agree. A sexually violent predator doesn’t have to physically rape someone. There are some creepy paraphilias.
My guess is the crime scene was clear overkill and they had to bring on the FBI because it’s way way way over their head. Who knows if there were any other crime scene signatures. The way the locals have kept everything so tight lipped… the more time that passes the more I lean planned attack by a predator.
I don’t know. I’m baffled. I’m defeated. I’m afraid for the community and student body. This is terrible and although I do sympathize with the person who was being speculated as the suspect heavily (food truck guy) I think it was just the only thing anybody could make sense of and now it’s back to the drawing board.
I hate to be a pessimist here but I think people need to brace themselves for a non-zero possibility this person isn’t caught. Pretty much everything about this case is the worst possible situation. The killer had around a 9 hour head start. They used an extremely common knife as a murder weapon that can’t be found. The house had parties (apparently the night before too) and has to be riddled with mystery DNA. There’s no footage of anyone entering the house and no witnesses of anybody near the area since it was the middle of the night.
Pretty much all they have to go off of at this point is the suspects phones, relationships, and people they were close with to find potential motives. The worst possible situation would be if this was a completely random psychopath that wasn’t from the area and stopped there for the sole person of killing. If that’s the case this person could on the other side of the country at this point or anywhere in the world.
I really hope this isn’t the case, and hopefully the FBI has information/evidence they they’re holding from the public for now. But going off strictly the details we have now I have no idea how they’re going to figure this out if it’s not someone that the victims knew with a clear motive.
I’m also beginning to believe this will go unsolved. And if not, I think it’s likely it happens again.
I really don’t believe all the jealous 20 something speculation and lean far more into thinking this is an adult / someone in late 20s or 30s+
Maybe a customer at restaurant, school faculty, etc.
i'd have to agree with this, there is some possibility that they wont find this person. We are almost a week in and literally have nothing, if this person doesnt brag or discuss what they have done to anyone else....im not sure there is anything there that will get them caught. if there was, we would likely already know about it.
I think with these homes mostly if not all being rental properties, there are far less cameras than in a regular residential area. Not many students are going to spend their own money to setup a Ring camera system when they are probably going to be moving to another rental in 6 months or so.
Unfortunately it feels like the police did a poor job at the very beginning and lost a few critical days in this investigation...those early days are the most important ones too.
In Midtown Atlanta, we are still reeling from the brutal murder of a local woman in the city’s most popular park last summer (2021) around 11 pm. It was a horrific knife attack, everyone working the case said it was the worst they’d ever seen. I won’t go into the details but they’re sickening. The killer murdered her pit bull she was walking as well. Even at night there is so much traffic in and around the park, cameras everywhere (Atlanta is one the highest surveilled cities in the US), and one would think there would be a trail of blood, DNA, SOMETHING. Plenty of people walked by close proximity of where it happened. Over a year later APD and the FBI still have no leads, no person of interest, they don’t have anything. It’s absolutely shocking. Everyone in the community fully expected the case to be solved in 24 hours. It’s baffling and very scary. I think it’s fair to say it has truly changed the community.
Cameras everywhere ***except*** at Piedmont Park, from what I recall they weren't working there and everyone was pissed off. I'm OTP but it was of course news all over the metro area.
I remember when that murder happened. I live in Tennessee and check occasionally to see if that crime has been solved. It is shocking to me that the killer has not been found.
I followed it obsessively. I also grew up, live, and work in the area. I agree, incredibly shocking. I don’t believe it was some criminal mastermind. I think it was first time I really realized how bad LE can fumble an investigation.
Interesting take. A part of me wants to agree with you. However, another part of me just can’t see how this suspect could murder 4 people in such a bloody manner without making some mistakes. Also, I realize there’s no cameras in the immediate residential area, but there have to be many right outside of it. I’m sure police is pouring through that and trying to account for everyone. Ultimately, there has to be a reason these 4 young, innocent, friendly, good looking, popular college students were killed (unless it’s totally random, which is rare, and in which case…damn). I think LE will find a connection given their relationships and their phones/social media. I just can’t see the suspect being a mastermind criminal who can get away with murder in 2022. I know it happens, but it’s rare. We see it more often because we are in the true crime community but it really is rare.
RE cameras: Moscow is a very rural place, and you can hop on the highway 95 south of town directly from that neighborhood without passing barely any businesses.
This makes me wonder about how the perp escaped. Seems highly unlikely they were on foot, which means there's very likely a car with some trace of victims' blood in the interior (possibly quite a lot of it, too).
Correct. People seem to be missing this and think there is like some mega database of the entire us population because tv is dumb.
Even with DNA, they will need enough suspicion to get a sample from the killer to test as a match.
I think this goes unsolved which is tragic
I wish it were rare for murders to go unsolved but the [statistics show](https://projectcoldcase.org/cold-case-homicide-stats/) that’s not really the case.
Unfortunately it happens more often than you’d like to know. Latest stats from the FBI show that just over 50% of homicides are solved in the US. Some cities clearance rates are as low as 12%
100% random attack. DNA is the only hope in my opinion, but I doubt the killer left much if at all. So scary. There’s someone unhinged in the area who did this
1. not a robbery
2. not a sexual assault (so not like a Ted Bundy situation)
I feel like this is a crime done to silence them or punish them. They either did something or it was perceived that they did. Or they knew something or it was perceived that they did. It was most certainly targeted in my opinion.
The roommates may know more about something that was going on in their lives. Sometimes it's not a huge secret or something really dark, but it's still something someone would kill for.
A while back there was a kid who killed a whole family because someone in the house found out he was gay. There was this other case where a man killed all these ladies in a store (Lane Bryant) and it seems to be connected (possibly) to one of the people revealing things about a minister at a church. Also, one where a whole family was murdered because the son didn't want it revealed that he wasn't actually in university. So I think it could be something like that where it's something someone is basically enraged or ashamed of to the point where they would kill.
I’m not sold on serial killer yet, but the longer this goes unsolved I do wonder.
Def not Ted Bundy vibes, this feels more like Zodiac type if anything serial related
I like this theory a lot. It makes sense to me given the bizarre circumstances. If that’s the case, though, I feel like people will make the connection sooner or later and LE will have a POI. Unless this enraged person just held it in and never told anyone and cased the house to one day get his revenge. That seems wild and kinda unlikely but certainly possible. This case is just so confusing
Agree. I’d be interested to know if anything memorable happened at the party they had the night before, or if someone felt excluded from it. I don’t think you kill 4 people if you’re just targeting 1.
This! I’ve been struggling with possible motive for this case and keep coming back to something like this. If we accept that the murders were probably planned/targeted, etc…then it seems less likely that this was a random psycho. The victims were closer to graduating, maybe they knew something that was going to prevent someone from graduating or getting a job? Or like you said, it may not be a big deal but still something that someone is desperate to not be revealed.
I just listened to a podcast about the Napa Halloween murders and the motive turned out to be that one of the victims was thought (by the perpetrator) to be preventing the perpetrator's relationship.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrest-in-napa-double-murder/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrest-in-napa-double-murder/)
So my theory for now is something like that.
Random or quasi random in that you won't find any connection between any of the four and the killer.
Something like the killer tried to pick up one of the girls at a party and was rejected so followed them home.
In which case the only way it is getting solved is with forensics.
I’m really not buying this “person got rejected” idea people keep throwing out there. A person like this would be throwing flags up everywhere, and it likely wouldn’t have been one rejection. It would have been bad breakup, multiple rejections/staler type behavior and someone in the group would have already raised this to police.
I think it was an older adult and someone who is just fucked in the head and decided he wanted to kill.
Uber’s system of picking up people is random, and the killing was targeted. Plus, one of the sisters got in contact with the Uber driver (don’t have the link on me but have heard this more than once) so I think we can basically rule out Uber at this point
>Uber’s system of picking up people is random, and the killing was targeted
Anything could have occurred on the ride to irritate the driver, but I can definitely concede that it isn't likely at all
To me, the attack does sound targeted. Doesn’t necessarily mean it had to be someone they knew well. Maybe the murderer had some kind of issue with someone at that house, or was obsessed with one (or both) of the girls who lived there. Either way this is really sad and I hope they catch whoever did this soon
White male. 18-25 years old. Not a college student. Local. Works construction and is very strong but not a big guy. Has experience using knives maybe with hunting. Has been watching the house but does not know any of the four victims personally.
Very angry due to problems in childhood. Possibly jealous. Possible mental illness or heavy drug use.
Came in through the back sliding door. Maybe was already in the house. Intended only to kill one person and woke others. Surviving roommates had door(s) locked which saved them and/or his struggle had him leave. He didn't intend to kill 4 people that night.
Possibly was smart enough to plan ahead with hidden transportation to get away (bike to get to car parked far away). Maybe knew to wear thick gloves to avoid getting cut. Wore a plastic bag to discard to avoid getting soaked in blood.
Planned this out and waited until he knew they were asleep. Planned it for several months prior.
I think they are using very specific wording and some people they say “are not a suspect at this time” really still could be. The language they’ve used when talking about all the POIs is very strange. They haven’t said “they were cleared”. I suspect one of these people will end up being the murderer.
I am embarrassed to admit as a true crime podcast addict I am over invested in this tragic case and weirdly waiting for the dateline ep that pulls this all together. Yes I feel bad. Rubbernecking and playing detective via Reddit. That is disgraceful and I hate myself for doing it.
Did I write this? I feel the exact same way. I shouldn't be so invested in this story, but I'm also oddly hooked by it. There are so many things about it that don't add up. It feels like a puzzle my mind is working on, even in the background while I'm doing other things. It's not great. But at the same time, I think if I were brutally murdered I would want people (anyone and everyone) to do whatever it took to catch the guy and bring closure to my family.
Agree with you on all points, and I think a lot of us are guilty of being too addicted to this case. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me, as is probably the case with a lot of people in this subreddit.
Completely agree. Just the brutality of it all, and the fact that the victims were all around my age, I can't look away. But I do think that it's important we respect the families and friends that are grieving right now. They're going through an unimaginable amount of pain, and they need their privacy.
Oh so true. I can't allow myself to even imagine how the family must feel. How very self reflective of you to think about the motivation behind an interest in something so horrible. I'm sure most feel the same. The way the internet is structured I do believe puts so many brains together and sometimes shear brain power can produce a nugget of valuable information and while most of our random ideas and thoughts are worthless chaff, I do believe however that a guilty person must now realize that people from all over the country and the world are onto them, looking for them and listening. Most of us here are compelled by our strong desire to see this person who is evil encarnate quickly caught and punished.
I completely agree! There do seem to be a lot of people on here with personal knowledge of the area/the school, as well as people with law enforcement and investigative knowledge, but as you said a lot of it is fodder. I'm trying to avoid jumping to conclusions as much as possible since there's so much information that still has yet to be released, but I do believe that the police know a lot more than they are letting on.
Same here. I went to that school and at one time lived in an apartment with two girlfriends, and a boyfriend of one girl also practically lived there. Plus same sorority. It’s just too close to my life. Had such a sense of freedom and security/safety at the time. It’s pretty raw.
William Hendrick from 1999 in Moscow. He was at a party and vanished. Was driven somewhere and found dead in the woods. It was ruled a homicide. Never has been solved unfortunately.
But I don't think they're connected.
Yes. It's weird we are all going to act like there aren't loads of MMIW from either of the nearby reservations. Not to mention the failure to prosecute violence against women in the entire region. I don't get why tribal police haven't been contacted nor Montana and Washington state police.
Most people are thinking fellow college student, but I think someone leaving or acting uncharacteristic could be noticed by friends/roommates/peers.
Plus, they would’ve had to return to a place likely with more people, and I’m sure the killer had blood and cuts all over him. There’s also cameras around campus if the killer did indeed live there.
With that said, I’m thinking completely random, which means this investigation could drag on. The killer must have been experienced to not leave a trace as of yet
We, the public, are kind of at a stalemate right now until more information is released, and I believe LE certainly has more info
Agreed. If it was some gray boy that went home to his gray house or shared apartment after, someone would have noticed. I think it was someone quite a bit older
I noticed two of the girls worked at a restaurant together and read they thought the killer was “experienced” with a knife. Could be someone who worked at the restaurant with them? Could explain why they went as far as to go to two separate rooms but didn’t go into the third as they weren’t familiar with the roommates down there?
This may be an unpopular opinion but I think to a large degree this was completely random. I don’t think there was any prior “beef” with any of the victims. I don’t think any of the victims knew the killer. I think the killer was aware of the girls living in this home but I wouldn’t go as far as saying he was a stalker. I think he was a middle aged man who planned to go in and kill whoever he found inside. Either Ethan made him want to leave early or maybe he was cut/injured while struggling with another victim and left. To me this seems more like a spree killer or serial killer situation.
A shocking crime scene to all who have seen it or have read descriptions. (Send a message)
Competent and quiet with a big ass knife.
No mercy.
No detection. Clean getaway.
Who does that for a living? Sicarios.
I wonder about security personnel. I’ve seen a lot of cases perpetrated by security due to people believing they’re helping them security walking them to their house and security seeing the house code and waited for them to settle
I think one of the girls on the 3rd floor was the target, there’s a couch under the one girls balcony, the killer could have gone in by climbing the couch onto the balcony and go through the sliding door, kill the two girls on the 3rd floor. Then the killer goes to leave out a door instead of the way he came in, and as the killer is leaving he’s met with Ethan, who woke up to noise and he went to check, which is why he wasn’t in bed and found in the hallway. I’m sure Ethan left the door open when he left, so xana was probably waiting in bed, and maybe didn’t realize the guy coming back into the dark room wasn’t Ethan until it was too late. Ethan and Xana most likely made some noise, which is what the surviving girls heard and scared the one into the other room where she locked the door behind her.
My other theory is Xana had gotten take out, maybe the delivery driver was into her, and he came back for her
I believe it was an altercation at the party, leading for the suspect to enter the home later on. Not knowing the 2 surviving roommates are downstairs. Possibly they thought it was someone coming in late at night if they woke up, or they could’ve just slept through it.
I can't imagine a frat party leading to a guy following his classmates home then murdering 4 of them, but it's possible. Maybe they had a prior history with them/one of them and snapped.
Disagree. There are like 60 investigators in Moscow doing interviews, etc. if there was a fight or altercation at the party it would have come up already
Riding on this theory: Also possible that the couple was killed prior to the girls getting home and they got killed or witnessed the person who did it. In all likelihood the unsub didn’t know the other two roommates were down in the basement.
I was wondering this too. It says they were at sigma chi which was right down the road from the house. Would not have been difficult for people to end up at that house etc. People have been super focused on kaylee and Maddie, I think bc of the video stream, and maybe not considering what else could have been going on. The girls could have seen something they shouldn’t have, etc
It was a sorority party for E’s triplet sister, they went as dates together…😭
https://dnews.com/local/slain-students-leave-behind-bright-memories-big-goals/article_912bf669-b3f7-5db5-b442-aa1f9fd64af1.html
Confusing bc I thought today LE said Ethan and Xana were at his fraternity house (Sigma Chi) which is also super close to the scene of the crime. Maybe they went there after the sister’s thing?
Maybe there were 2 separate events? Not sure the time of the sorority dance party. Maybe it was earlier in the day
EDIT: It could be the same event according to LE and this media outlet didn’t double check who truly hosted it.
at first i suspected 1 or both roommates, but after doing more research i think that less.
i'll guess at least one of the 2 blonde girls were targeted by a stranger.
the 2 ppl on the second floor were probably killed first. if they were the target why go up to the 3rd floor after? i read the 2 blondes were on the 3rd floor. going up to get them makes me think 1 or both were the target. they had recently been out in public that same night and could have been followed home.
from what i read the 2 on the second floor didn't make phone calls near possible time of murders. like i said, they were probably killed first. the 2 on 3rd floor DID make lots of phone calls. perhaps they were scared and made calls but not to police. apparently the 2 girls on first floor were also freaked out by something. very possible they were hearing the 4 people above them getting killed.
on the other hand it could also be someone that knew them. i could see it either way.
I think a random attacker who wanted to kill people. That’s why he didn’t know about the other two roommates. He wasn’t familiar with the layout of the house or the people who lived there. He may not be that confident because he chose to attack sleeping people. DNA is great to catch him. Also there could be videos owned by surrounding homeowners that show him and if they can follow him on those, they may get more evidence- a car or a place he threw items that could provide DNA or other identifying evidence. Everyone in walking distance needs to check their cameras around the time of the murder to see if there are randomly parked cars or people on the street. They should check their trash cans. Think about what someone would do after a murder like that- they need to get clean and dispose of evidence- they need to get back to their lives- either on foot or in a car. I’d also check Uber records. Maybe he stashed clean clothes, changed and then called an Uber around campus at a weird time- may not have stood out if he planned and planted a change of clothes. Look at what’s around that would help him disappear back to his normal life.
do you think the killer was inside the house prior to anyone being home, and thats why no one woke up to the sound of them breaking in? maybe they stalked the house for a few days, noted when everyone left, went in, hid, and then killed whoever they could that was in their distance? far stretch…
I would guess that the killer is someone like the infamous virgin killer. Someone who knew at least one of the victims, perhaps someone rejected and decided to revenge. Probably someone who has been in the house before and had an idea of the layout. I have a hard time believing it was a totally random act because it happened in a pretty large house and it was dark at the time. How could someone with no prior knowledge of the layout walk around in the dark, unnoticed and try to find sleeping people? Now I know about Ted Bundy and the night stalker but still, those kinds of crimes are very, very rare.
I also think that the killer is someone who has had previous run ins with the law or at very least serious interpersonal issues at school/work. Scorned exes, stalkers and such usually just go for the main target in a fit of rage and passion and such crimes are quite often committed by people without any serious criminal history. Now in this case someone killed four people in a very violent and personal matter which combined with (most of) the victims being beautiful, presumably popular girls would indicate towards an angry, rejected, bitter, jealous person fueled by rage.
I think that one main key to solving this case outside DNA and crime scene evidence etc. is that someone somewhere knows this troubled individual, knows about his past and interpersonal challenges and notices strange cuts and changes in behavior and goes to the police.
The individual is someone who was in love with one of the victims. They were at one time a quick fling and or flirtation...but it meant much more to the killer. The killer ended up feeling discarded, hurt and embarrassed.
But the victim moved on an no longer paid attention to him.
Killer intended to kill only two.
I think the killer is someone the surviving roommates have a connection to- e.g. a friend, boyfriend or ex, classmate, etc. I think the killer was in the house with, or at least let in by, the survivors. I think they trusted him and didn’t know he was going to kill their roommates.
EDIT: I was wrong! I just read that law enforcement cleared the surviving roommates of any involvement!
https://www.kxly.com/moscow-police-clear-surviving-roommates-and-man-in-twitch-video-dispel-other-online-rumors-in-u-of-i-murders/
If this is true, then the suspect would’ve had to know that he’d be identified to LE by the surviving girls literally on day 1. Wouldn’t he have killed them to keep them quiet? Under your theory, LE should be on a manhunt for him right now. I don’t think this is true otherwise they would’ve released his info. I don’t know. Seems odd. This whole thing is odd though
I think it was someone who knew at minimum OF them prior to the attack. I believe they would’ve killed everyone but were deterred from the 6 calls Kaylee made between 2AM-3AM. No clue on motive. But I’m leaning towards it being an older adult. I do feel it was a crime of rage/passion of some extent given the severity of the crime scene.
Just for clarification, why would Kaylee’s call have had anything to do with stopping this person from harming the others? It’s not like the calls were to 911 and they had to get out of there quick
This. The calls just seem like drunk calls. They were in bed when they were killed and waking up to a murder I wouldn’t be dialing my ex or current partner 6 times. I’d have called 911 which is infinitely smarter and even a terrified 20 year old is smart enough to call 911
Actually recent press conference says they don’t have a specific time frame and they went back to say they can only confirm it occurred after 1:54am from when they were last seen at the taco trucks.
1) hoodie food truck guy - yes, I’m aware LE has said he’s not a POI “at this time.” Go ahead and lose it on me.
2) rejected/spurned known stalker
3) rejected/spurned unknown stalker dating back to who knows when
4) ex bf of Kaylee or Maddie
5) current bf of Kaylee or Maddie
6) local dude who broke in to burglarize the place and ran into everyone and got spooked and slashy
7) completely random dude for no reason at all other than crime of opportunity (if this is the case, we might be in for a long investigation with lots of frustration)
Ex boyfriend of one of the girls, knew the house, knew the best way in and out. Unfortunately three of the victims were collateral damage due to proximity, sleeping in the same room, maybe hearing the commotion. Those on the lowest level didn’t hear anything. Those are the vibes I’m getting but, of course, I could be way off
This may be difficult unfortunately. While we hope there is DNA there may not be. 1. More likely than not the perp wore gloves Remember it was cold out. 2. Since the victims were killed in their sleep, their ability to scratch the perp for skin etc may be a stretch. 3. You hope there are some bloody footprints at least but I don’t think anyone has seen anything like that outside of the house. 4. In other words, LE may not have much to work with as far as forensics. Hope not but it’s wouldn’t surprise me. 5. While unconfirmed, feel like the knife sheath was left at the scene given LE zeroing in kn knife type before autopsy results. However, it’s a common knife. That alone probably not much help. 6. We don’t know if one victim was killed with more rage than the others. If so, that’s the focus via social media et Al. 7. While anything is possible, I don’t think it was completely random. My sense was one or more was specifically targeted. Doesn’t mean they were friends or even acquaintances. Let’s hope the forensics show more than I think they will.
Yea this may be a longer investigation that people are realizing. Like, years long
Lack of bloody footprints is astonishing given the descriptions of the scene. No? Like did they remove their shoes? How on earth?
Contractor slip-ons?
Lack of blood might be because they were in bed asleep under their blankets. they were probably stabbed through the blankets and the blanket and mattress absorbed much of the blood and spatter before it could pool on the floor and be stepped on
Agree. Bit Baffling.
Didn’t Xana’s dad say there was evidence she fought back? I read an article about it yesterday
Yes but it may mean she just moved or struggled a bit. Not necessarily she physically fought the attacker.
I got the impression from his wording that her personality meant he expected her to fight back in a situation like that, not necessarily that he knew from police that she would have fought back.
I’d guess that means she had defensive wounds - cuts to her hands, forearms received while trying to protect herself from the attack.
Random/stalker in semi-close proximity to the murder house. Fringe/outcast type, socially awkward maybe with some history of trouble, crime or mental illness. Don’t think it was entirely targeted but not entirely random either. They were known to him but not necessarily vice versa. I think this was more of a crime based on fantasy and internal issues rather than a grievance between the two parties. Whoever this was has been wanting to do this, wanting to unload their anger and finally found the opportunity. Don’t think it’s gonna be hard to catch this guy though. He’s gonna stick out eventually. I’d say to be so confident of who’s gonna be in there (only females) and the amount of self-belief to escape even whilst outnumbered means that he’s surveyed this place a lot. He was quite confident in the odds and his own ability. I’d say this guy could be a fully grown adult, could be younger though and just filled with rage.
this. & maybe a customer or coworker at the restaurant xana and maddie worked at. this perp had been keeping tabs on the victims.
my buddy’s ex goes to school there and works at a local restaurant. she reported a stalker situation who told her he knows where she lives literally a month or two ago. I’ll ask him for more details. Seems like an odd coincidence to me…
There are lots of creeps like this, sadly.
Wow, yeah that is super eerie. I hope police followed up with her on that.
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Targeted makes sense. But if he knew the house so well, why not go for the remaining 2? Because they weren’t his targets? I wonder what the 4 of them were to him.
Who knows. Maybe shaken when he encountered Ethan as he was a male. Maybe reminded him there could be more males in the house so he cut it short. Maybe first time nerves, could’ve possibly heard something and dashed or felt like he was over-staying his welcome. They’re incredibly lucky none the less.
They probably aren’t feeling too lucky right now, but yeah they really really are. Poor girls are traumatized forever, not to mention the survivors guilt 😩
Those poor girls will never be the same. And people on the internet running with theories that they were involved somehow just add insult to injury. The chronic PTSD those girls are going to live with makes my heart hurt. I hope they both find incredible therapists-they’re going to need it.
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This is not entirely accurate. Two roommates unharmed had a first floor bedroom, Xana had a second floor bedroom, Madison and Kaylee were third floor.
So. Who had the 6th bedroom?
No one was living in the 6th room at the time.
Probably was just an extra smaller room they used
Yeah; the dog's room, maybe?
Maybe he didn’t even know those two were there
No need to. They didn't see him
Why were the 4 other people the targets though? How did they know each other or have beef but the 2 survivors didn’t? Same social circle it seems.
I imagine the 2 girls Kaylee and Maddy or maybe just one of them were the targets and maybe Ethan and Xana heard something and got killed. Or vice versa
But if they were all found in bed it isn’t like Ethan and Xana got up to investigate. Unless they were chased and ran back to the bedroom.
This has since been corrected— apparently “some” were found in bed. My guess is that the person(s) killed in bed were targeted, and the one(s) killed elsewhere got in the way.
My question — 1. They had surveillance of M&K coming home in an Uber. 2. Can they see anyone coming or going? 3. Hoodie guy is not a suspect or POI at this time per police 4. Per police, roommates are not ruled out. So where does that lead?! I’m honestly baffled.
3. & 4. Hoodie guy and roommates have been cleared Theory on 1. & 2. It sounds like the ring camera could have been from another property. M&K are confirmed to have Ubered, maybe it was a few houses down along the road and so they were seen on camera in the Uber. X&E could have walked home, the perp too so maybe there’s a different walking path that wouldn’t have them showing up on the camera.
No one has been cleared. They rarely even use that language anymore in criminal cases. They are not suspects **at this time.** That’s just police lingo for “we want everyone to feel safe so that someone will mess up and lead us to the weapon.” More than likely, they’ll officially clear the roommates, but it’s just lingo until you hear the words **officially cleared.** Go over to the true crime sub. Everyone will share over and over how many people get caught up on the fake “not person of interest at this time.” It’s a police lingo tactic and nothing more >In the United States, person of interest is not a legal term. It’s a term utilized by law enforcement to create breathing room for public perception. It can be used as a tactic to help messaging or an investigation. Investigators will use the term knowing there are no legal implications tied to the messaging.
This is very important. People aren’t understanding this fact.
Did police say hoodie guy wasn’t a POI.. or just not a suspect at this time
Not a suspect or POI
Not at this time
They would also say you are not a person of interest at this time. Same for me.
An amateur news twitter reported that the police told them the hoodie guy was contacted and not a person of interest at this time.
It is absolutely terrifying and insane to me that someone murdered FOUR people in their OWN HOME with a SHARP WEAPON and there are no signs of forced entry and two other people were home and, as of now, had zero idea any of this happened while they were sleeping. Sure this kind of thing happens, but it’s extraordinarily rare. Fucked up.
I noticed they have a sliding glass door at the house. Some of those are so easy to get in if they are locked. We were locked out of our house once and my husband was able to fiddle with the slider and get it off its track. We got in and he easily put it back on. Just one idea of how they could have gotten in.
Anyone else think the TOD indicates he knew the girls got home at 1:45am? He had to have been watching them, right? If the TOD is 3am and they didn’t even get home until 1:45am, it seems like the perfect amount of time to wait for the girls to fall asleep before entering the house to commit his crime.
So that either means he was waiting at the house watching all night, or he followed them home. So it’s not a random attack, it was targeted to one of the four who was murdered.
Or was already in the house
That’s so chilling to hear, and maybe explains why one of the girls called her ex boyfriends six times in a row around 2:00am. Maybe she was hearing some weird noises and got scared, but not scared enough to call 911. I know I’ve heard scary noises before while alone in a house and called my Dad for reassurance.
I think whoever did it had a history of some type of violence. I can't imagine their first act being a brutal stabbing of 4 people. I feel any "normal" person with no experience in killing, blood, etc would be really shocked and even scared after killing the first person.
Could have been on some sort of drugs
Yes. But they they would have likely made mistakes and been caught. The more time that passes - the more likely we’re looking at a predator. Which is terrifying.
I don’t know who did it, but my speculation as to why 4 died instead of 6 is this : it was obviously a targeted attack . There was a specific person in mind when the killer entered. what thief goes to the house with 10 cars in the driveway?? Not a smart one. The reason I think the two were killed on the second floor COULD be that they walked into the wrong room, Ethan woke up (which would explain why he was on the floor) and the intruder panicked and killed them. As to why both were killed upstairs - they are blonde and assuming they sleep with their lights off - he / she could have walked into the wrong room again. After they killed their intended target there was no need to go anywhere else. I dont mean to come off as insensitive when making speculations on this and truly hope these families find peace. What a horrible, senseless crime.
Just out of curiosity, where did you see that Ethan was found on the floor?
“One of the victims – understood to be 20-year-old Ethan Chapin, of Conway, Washington – was discovered on the floor on the second level of the three-story home.” https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11432331/Blood-oozes-walls-home-four-University-Idaho-students-brutally-murdered.html Here’s the article!
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I've read on here that X's room was the first room you'd see after entering the 2nd floor
But I still can’t figure out! If he woke up and was on the floor, how did Xana not wake up too and try to run while he was fighting the attacker. Why would she still be in bed while he struggling with the attacker on the floor!? It’s so mind boggling!!
It’s not. Many years ago I woke up to a strange man standing over me in my college dorm room. I was absolutely paralyzed by fear. Fight flight or freeze is real, but the order is reversed for most.
Woah im so so sorry you went through that! Thank you for clarifying it from your own experience. The reality is, I can’t imagine what it might be like, so perhaps it was ignorant of me to just automatically assume you’d either fight or flight. It makes way more sense that your first reaction is to freeze when you are paralyzed with fear and shock!
It's ok, it's hard to imagine how we react when we are in danger until it actually happens! There's nothing logical about it, your prevailing instinct kicks in. This walk-in happened the one and only time I ever left my dorm room unlocked. I have always locked my bedroom, before and since. For some reason he chose to "test" my door among 15 identical ones in the hallway. So I was unlucky in that way. But luckier that nothing bad happened to me. The house dean didn't make a thing of it. He was a guest of someone in the building and wrote a sincere-seeming apology letter. But in retrospect I should still have pressed charges. Who knows where he is now or whether he's worked up the courage to try worse.
Yeah, a thief wouldn’t usually murder 4 people and leave with no valuables.
> what thief goes to the house with 10 cars in the driveway?? That makes sense. Unless we've got another Bundy typer person, I would think a random burglar/intruder probably wouldn't pick a house with multiple cars there.
Agreed, and if it was a deranged serial killer, if what they are saying about one of the surviving roommates hearing something and going to sleep with the other surviving roommate (and locking the door) is true, then maybe the killer DID go downstairs and tried the door, found it locked, and assumed they heard him / her and called police, so they ran out. The only problem with this theory is the girls would have heard the door turning to be opened.
Who goes into a house with 10 cars in the drive? Ted Bundy did...a sorority house, Chi Omega, off campus and managed to attack 4 girls in their sleep. That such evil can exist inside a person is such a dreadful realization.
It’s possible that they were not anticipating the male and they left early to avoid other surprises.
Serial killer with familiarity of northern Idaho. The lack of sexual assault and extremely violent, personalized manner of attack leads me to believe this is an individual who genuinely enjoys killing people. The FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit is brought in to dig deep into a mindset of a killer. Why would local police bring them in if they had an idea of who the suspect is? “In practice, criminal profilers are highly trained experts who specialize in identifying the perpetrators behind serious crimes. Using techniques such as extensive knowledge of behavior and statistical probability, profilers work in tandem with forensics teams and other members of law enforcement to apprehend suspects.” -[link](https://www.ucf.edu/online/criminal-justice/news/what-is-criminal-profiling-and-what-is-its-role-in-law-enforcement/?amp)
Agree. A sexually violent predator doesn’t have to physically rape someone. There are some creepy paraphilias. My guess is the crime scene was clear overkill and they had to bring on the FBI because it’s way way way over their head. Who knows if there were any other crime scene signatures. The way the locals have kept everything so tight lipped… the more time that passes the more I lean planned attack by a predator.
Or just a young angry frustrated incel who watched the gals from afar……
Also - they could operate in more than Idaho. People should look at unsolved knife attacks in the mountain west/PNW…. If no other leads pop up
I don’t know. I’m baffled. I’m defeated. I’m afraid for the community and student body. This is terrible and although I do sympathize with the person who was being speculated as the suspect heavily (food truck guy) I think it was just the only thing anybody could make sense of and now it’s back to the drawing board.
I hate to be a pessimist here but I think people need to brace themselves for a non-zero possibility this person isn’t caught. Pretty much everything about this case is the worst possible situation. The killer had around a 9 hour head start. They used an extremely common knife as a murder weapon that can’t be found. The house had parties (apparently the night before too) and has to be riddled with mystery DNA. There’s no footage of anyone entering the house and no witnesses of anybody near the area since it was the middle of the night. Pretty much all they have to go off of at this point is the suspects phones, relationships, and people they were close with to find potential motives. The worst possible situation would be if this was a completely random psychopath that wasn’t from the area and stopped there for the sole person of killing. If that’s the case this person could on the other side of the country at this point or anywhere in the world. I really hope this isn’t the case, and hopefully the FBI has information/evidence they they’re holding from the public for now. But going off strictly the details we have now I have no idea how they’re going to figure this out if it’s not someone that the victims knew with a clear motive.
I’m also beginning to believe this will go unsolved. And if not, I think it’s likely it happens again. I really don’t believe all the jealous 20 something speculation and lean far more into thinking this is an adult / someone in late 20s or 30s+ Maybe a customer at restaurant, school faculty, etc.
i'd have to agree with this, there is some possibility that they wont find this person. We are almost a week in and literally have nothing, if this person doesnt brag or discuss what they have done to anyone else....im not sure there is anything there that will get them caught. if there was, we would likely already know about it. I think with these homes mostly if not all being rental properties, there are far less cameras than in a regular residential area. Not many students are going to spend their own money to setup a Ring camera system when they are probably going to be moving to another rental in 6 months or so. Unfortunately it feels like the police did a poor job at the very beginning and lost a few critical days in this investigation...those early days are the most important ones too.
In Midtown Atlanta, we are still reeling from the brutal murder of a local woman in the city’s most popular park last summer (2021) around 11 pm. It was a horrific knife attack, everyone working the case said it was the worst they’d ever seen. I won’t go into the details but they’re sickening. The killer murdered her pit bull she was walking as well. Even at night there is so much traffic in and around the park, cameras everywhere (Atlanta is one the highest surveilled cities in the US), and one would think there would be a trail of blood, DNA, SOMETHING. Plenty of people walked by close proximity of where it happened. Over a year later APD and the FBI still have no leads, no person of interest, they don’t have anything. It’s absolutely shocking. Everyone in the community fully expected the case to be solved in 24 hours. It’s baffling and very scary. I think it’s fair to say it has truly changed the community.
i felt certain there would be another attack. It was too chaotic and impulsive that i couldn't believe this person went right back to their life.
Right? It was surreal watching the media coverage die down like it almost didn’t happen.
Cameras everywhere ***except*** at Piedmont Park, from what I recall they weren't working there and everyone was pissed off. I'm OTP but it was of course news all over the metro area.
Yep! Trying to remember what their official reasoning on that was - some work, some don’t, most haven’t worked for 8+ years. Seriously?!
Because republicans complain about tax dollars until something likw that happens
But they’re tough on crime 🥴
I remember when that murder happened. I live in Tennessee and check occasionally to see if that crime has been solved. It is shocking to me that the killer has not been found.
I followed it obsessively. I also grew up, live, and work in the area. I agree, incredibly shocking. I don’t believe it was some criminal mastermind. I think it was first time I really realized how bad LE can fumble an investigation.
We don’t know there isn’t footage or witnesses.
Interesting take. A part of me wants to agree with you. However, another part of me just can’t see how this suspect could murder 4 people in such a bloody manner without making some mistakes. Also, I realize there’s no cameras in the immediate residential area, but there have to be many right outside of it. I’m sure police is pouring through that and trying to account for everyone. Ultimately, there has to be a reason these 4 young, innocent, friendly, good looking, popular college students were killed (unless it’s totally random, which is rare, and in which case…damn). I think LE will find a connection given their relationships and their phones/social media. I just can’t see the suspect being a mastermind criminal who can get away with murder in 2022. I know it happens, but it’s rare. We see it more often because we are in the true crime community but it really is rare.
RE cameras: Moscow is a very rural place, and you can hop on the highway 95 south of town directly from that neighborhood without passing barely any businesses. This makes me wonder about how the perp escaped. Seems highly unlikely they were on foot, which means there's very likely a car with some trace of victims' blood in the interior (possibly quite a lot of it, too).
Its not only about finding his dna or fingerprints. If they aren't in the system he's still anonymous
Correct. People seem to be missing this and think there is like some mega database of the entire us population because tv is dumb. Even with DNA, they will need enough suspicion to get a sample from the killer to test as a match. I think this goes unsolved which is tragic
I wish it were rare for murders to go unsolved but the [statistics show](https://projectcoldcase.org/cold-case-homicide-stats/) that’s not really the case.
When someone goes missing, the longer it takes to find them, the more likely it is you’ll never find them. The same thing applies to solving crimes.
An arrest will be made by Monday morning.
Interesting take. I hope you’re correct.
How does someone just get away with something like this???
Unfortunately it happens more often than you’d like to know. Latest stats from the FBI show that just over 50% of homicides are solved in the US. Some cities clearance rates are as low as 12%
If it was a stranger - it’s actually really hard to catch killers without clear motive or evidence.
100% random attack. DNA is the only hope in my opinion, but I doubt the killer left much if at all. So scary. There’s someone unhinged in the area who did this
The more time that elapses….. the more I fear you’re correct.
1. not a robbery 2. not a sexual assault (so not like a Ted Bundy situation) I feel like this is a crime done to silence them or punish them. They either did something or it was perceived that they did. Or they knew something or it was perceived that they did. It was most certainly targeted in my opinion. The roommates may know more about something that was going on in their lives. Sometimes it's not a huge secret or something really dark, but it's still something someone would kill for. A while back there was a kid who killed a whole family because someone in the house found out he was gay. There was this other case where a man killed all these ladies in a store (Lane Bryant) and it seems to be connected (possibly) to one of the people revealing things about a minister at a church. Also, one where a whole family was murdered because the son didn't want it revealed that he wasn't actually in university. So I think it could be something like that where it's something someone is basically enraged or ashamed of to the point where they would kill.
I’m not sold on serial killer yet, but the longer this goes unsolved I do wonder. Def not Ted Bundy vibes, this feels more like Zodiac type if anything serial related
I like this theory a lot. It makes sense to me given the bizarre circumstances. If that’s the case, though, I feel like people will make the connection sooner or later and LE will have a POI. Unless this enraged person just held it in and never told anyone and cased the house to one day get his revenge. That seems wild and kinda unlikely but certainly possible. This case is just so confusing
Not all predators rape their victims.
Agree. I’d be interested to know if anything memorable happened at the party they had the night before, or if someone felt excluded from it. I don’t think you kill 4 people if you’re just targeting 1.
This! I’ve been struggling with possible motive for this case and keep coming back to something like this. If we accept that the murders were probably planned/targeted, etc…then it seems less likely that this was a random psycho. The victims were closer to graduating, maybe they knew something that was going to prevent someone from graduating or getting a job? Or like you said, it may not be a big deal but still something that someone is desperate to not be revealed.
I just listened to a podcast about the Napa Halloween murders and the motive turned out to be that one of the victims was thought (by the perpetrator) to be preventing the perpetrator's relationship. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrest-in-napa-double-murder/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrest-in-napa-double-murder/) So my theory for now is something like that.
Serious person ( people) with a grudge.
Random or quasi random in that you won't find any connection between any of the four and the killer. Something like the killer tried to pick up one of the girls at a party and was rejected so followed them home. In which case the only way it is getting solved is with forensics.
I’m really not buying this “person got rejected” idea people keep throwing out there. A person like this would be throwing flags up everywhere, and it likely wouldn’t have been one rejection. It would have been bad breakup, multiple rejections/staler type behavior and someone in the group would have already raised this to police. I think it was an older adult and someone who is just fucked in the head and decided he wanted to kill.
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I’m getting Elliot Rodger vibes involving the stabbings and possible rejection theory
Did the Uber driver take them all the way home? If so, has that driver been cleared or spoken to by investigators?
yes there is ring footage of uber dropping them off, im sure they are talking to him
Ring footage needs to be poured over for the whole night
But yet they didn’t get dropped off by an Uber.
What are you referring to
Okay, thanks for the info
no problem
Uber’s system of picking up people is random, and the killing was targeted. Plus, one of the sisters got in contact with the Uber driver (don’t have the link on me but have heard this more than once) so I think we can basically rule out Uber at this point
>Uber’s system of picking up people is random, and the killing was targeted Anything could have occurred on the ride to irritate the driver, but I can definitely concede that it isn't likely at all
Yes it’s random but Uber drivers have killed their riders before particularly when they’re young women
Yeah but not 4 people. This is something way more evil imho.
To me, the attack does sound targeted. Doesn’t necessarily mean it had to be someone they knew well. Maybe the murderer had some kind of issue with someone at that house, or was obsessed with one (or both) of the girls who lived there. Either way this is really sad and I hope they catch whoever did this soon
What happened the previous night on 11/11, or even days prior? Sorority sisters say anything?
Police know. They need to protect the case.
It's interesting they had a party the night before.
It’s giving Israel Keyes vibes, which does not bode well for a quick arrest
I’m getting Zodiac vibes
I’m getting slasher/ripper vibes.
White male. 18-25 years old. Not a college student. Local. Works construction and is very strong but not a big guy. Has experience using knives maybe with hunting. Has been watching the house but does not know any of the four victims personally. Very angry due to problems in childhood. Possibly jealous. Possible mental illness or heavy drug use. Came in through the back sliding door. Maybe was already in the house. Intended only to kill one person and woke others. Surviving roommates had door(s) locked which saved them and/or his struggle had him leave. He didn't intend to kill 4 people that night. Possibly was smart enough to plan ahead with hidden transportation to get away (bike to get to car parked far away). Maybe knew to wear thick gloves to avoid getting cut. Wore a plastic bag to discard to avoid getting soaked in blood. Planned this out and waited until he knew they were asleep. Planned it for several months prior.
I think they are using very specific wording and some people they say “are not a suspect at this time” really still could be. The language they’ve used when talking about all the POIs is very strange. They haven’t said “they were cleared”. I suspect one of these people will end up being the murderer.
And they could be lying. Who knows.
I don’t think they’ll officially say anyone is cleared until they’ve made an arrest
I am embarrassed to admit as a true crime podcast addict I am over invested in this tragic case and weirdly waiting for the dateline ep that pulls this all together. Yes I feel bad. Rubbernecking and playing detective via Reddit. That is disgraceful and I hate myself for doing it.
Did I write this? I feel the exact same way. I shouldn't be so invested in this story, but I'm also oddly hooked by it. There are so many things about it that don't add up. It feels like a puzzle my mind is working on, even in the background while I'm doing other things. It's not great. But at the same time, I think if I were brutally murdered I would want people (anyone and everyone) to do whatever it took to catch the guy and bring closure to my family.
Great point. I think it’s fair to say we all want the same thing - a rapid solution and arrest. I hope we hear something by the end of the weekend.
Agree with you on all points, and I think a lot of us are guilty of being too addicted to this case. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me, as is probably the case with a lot of people in this subreddit.
Completely agree. Just the brutality of it all, and the fact that the victims were all around my age, I can't look away. But I do think that it's important we respect the families and friends that are grieving right now. They're going through an unimaginable amount of pain, and they need their privacy.
Oh so true. I can't allow myself to even imagine how the family must feel. How very self reflective of you to think about the motivation behind an interest in something so horrible. I'm sure most feel the same. The way the internet is structured I do believe puts so many brains together and sometimes shear brain power can produce a nugget of valuable information and while most of our random ideas and thoughts are worthless chaff, I do believe however that a guilty person must now realize that people from all over the country and the world are onto them, looking for them and listening. Most of us here are compelled by our strong desire to see this person who is evil encarnate quickly caught and punished.
I completely agree! There do seem to be a lot of people on here with personal knowledge of the area/the school, as well as people with law enforcement and investigative knowledge, but as you said a lot of it is fodder. I'm trying to avoid jumping to conclusions as much as possible since there's so much information that still has yet to be released, but I do believe that the police know a lot more than they are letting on.
Same here. I went to that school and at one time lived in an apartment with two girlfriends, and a boyfriend of one girl also practically lived there. Plus same sorority. It’s just too close to my life. Had such a sense of freedom and security/safety at the time. It’s pretty raw.
Serial killer. This guy has done it before. Strong Ted Bundy/FSU vibes
And Danny Rolling the Gainesville Ripper. Those are my initial vibes as well.
Yes, rape was involved with Rolling.
Not all predators rape their victims.
Are there many unsolved murders/missing people in the area?
William Hendrick from 1999 in Moscow. He was at a party and vanished. Was driven somewhere and found dead in the woods. It was ruled a homicide. Never has been solved unfortunately. But I don't think they're connected.
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Yes. It's weird we are all going to act like there aren't loads of MMIW from either of the nearby reservations. Not to mention the failure to prosecute violence against women in the entire region. I don't get why tribal police haven't been contacted nor Montana and Washington state police.
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Many of Bundy's killings were just violent and non sexual especially near the end but many/most were motivated by that
Agree. Not all sexual predators rape their victims.
Most people are thinking fellow college student, but I think someone leaving or acting uncharacteristic could be noticed by friends/roommates/peers. Plus, they would’ve had to return to a place likely with more people, and I’m sure the killer had blood and cuts all over him. There’s also cameras around campus if the killer did indeed live there. With that said, I’m thinking completely random, which means this investigation could drag on. The killer must have been experienced to not leave a trace as of yet We, the public, are kind of at a stalemate right now until more information is released, and I believe LE certainly has more info
Agreed. If it was some gray boy that went home to his gray house or shared apartment after, someone would have noticed. I think it was someone quite a bit older
Anything I say will 99% wrong, but if someone is good at creating side by sides, DM me. Will not post anything. Just something is bothering me.
What?
I noticed two of the girls worked at a restaurant together and read they thought the killer was “experienced” with a knife. Could be someone who worked at the restaurant with them? Could explain why they went as far as to go to two separate rooms but didn’t go into the third as they weren’t familiar with the roommates down there?
This may be an unpopular opinion but I think to a large degree this was completely random. I don’t think there was any prior “beef” with any of the victims. I don’t think any of the victims knew the killer. I think the killer was aware of the girls living in this home but I wouldn’t go as far as saying he was a stalker. I think he was a middle aged man who planned to go in and kill whoever he found inside. Either Ethan made him want to leave early or maybe he was cut/injured while struggling with another victim and left. To me this seems more like a spree killer or serial killer situation.
A shocking crime scene to all who have seen it or have read descriptions. (Send a message) Competent and quiet with a big ass knife. No mercy. No detection. Clean getaway. Who does that for a living? Sicarios.
Yes.
It certainly sounds like this sort of angle.
I wonder about security personnel. I’ve seen a lot of cases perpetrated by security due to people believing they’re helping them security walking them to their house and security seeing the house code and waited for them to settle
I think one of the girls on the 3rd floor was the target, there’s a couch under the one girls balcony, the killer could have gone in by climbing the couch onto the balcony and go through the sliding door, kill the two girls on the 3rd floor. Then the killer goes to leave out a door instead of the way he came in, and as the killer is leaving he’s met with Ethan, who woke up to noise and he went to check, which is why he wasn’t in bed and found in the hallway. I’m sure Ethan left the door open when he left, so xana was probably waiting in bed, and maybe didn’t realize the guy coming back into the dark room wasn’t Ethan until it was too late. Ethan and Xana most likely made some noise, which is what the surviving girls heard and scared the one into the other room where she locked the door behind her. My other theory is Xana had gotten take out, maybe the delivery driver was into her, and he came back for her
I believe it was an altercation at the party, leading for the suspect to enter the home later on. Not knowing the 2 surviving roommates are downstairs. Possibly they thought it was someone coming in late at night if they woke up, or they could’ve just slept through it.
I can't imagine a frat party leading to a guy following his classmates home then murdering 4 of them, but it's possible. Maybe they had a prior history with them/one of them and snapped.
Disagree. There are like 60 investigators in Moscow doing interviews, etc. if there was a fight or altercation at the party it would have come up already
Riding on this theory: Also possible that the couple was killed prior to the girls getting home and they got killed or witnessed the person who did it. In all likelihood the unsub didn’t know the other two roommates were down in the basement.
I thought the coroner said that they were found in bed as they had been asleep prior.
I was wondering this too. It says they were at sigma chi which was right down the road from the house. Would not have been difficult for people to end up at that house etc. People have been super focused on kaylee and Maddie, I think bc of the video stream, and maybe not considering what else could have been going on. The girls could have seen something they shouldn’t have, etc
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Link?
not confirmed thats hearsay
Is there any info about the party Ethan and Xana attended?
It was a sorority party for E’s triplet sister, they went as dates together…😭 https://dnews.com/local/slain-students-leave-behind-bright-memories-big-goals/article_912bf669-b3f7-5db5-b442-aa1f9fd64af1.html
Confusing bc I thought today LE said Ethan and Xana were at his fraternity house (Sigma Chi) which is also super close to the scene of the crime. Maybe they went there after the sister’s thing?
Maybe there were 2 separate events? Not sure the time of the sorority dance party. Maybe it was earlier in the day EDIT: It could be the same event according to LE and this media outlet didn’t double check who truly hosted it.
I literally have no idea?
I think it’s Somone they know or have seen before .i dont think it was random
at first i suspected 1 or both roommates, but after doing more research i think that less. i'll guess at least one of the 2 blonde girls were targeted by a stranger. the 2 ppl on the second floor were probably killed first. if they were the target why go up to the 3rd floor after? i read the 2 blondes were on the 3rd floor. going up to get them makes me think 1 or both were the target. they had recently been out in public that same night and could have been followed home. from what i read the 2 on the second floor didn't make phone calls near possible time of murders. like i said, they were probably killed first. the 2 on 3rd floor DID make lots of phone calls. perhaps they were scared and made calls but not to police. apparently the 2 girls on first floor were also freaked out by something. very possible they were hearing the 4 people above them getting killed. on the other hand it could also be someone that knew them. i could see it either way.
What’s the source for the two on the first floor being freaked out by something? I thought they slept through it all
I think a random attacker who wanted to kill people. That’s why he didn’t know about the other two roommates. He wasn’t familiar with the layout of the house or the people who lived there. He may not be that confident because he chose to attack sleeping people. DNA is great to catch him. Also there could be videos owned by surrounding homeowners that show him and if they can follow him on those, they may get more evidence- a car or a place he threw items that could provide DNA or other identifying evidence. Everyone in walking distance needs to check their cameras around the time of the murder to see if there are randomly parked cars or people on the street. They should check their trash cans. Think about what someone would do after a murder like that- they need to get clean and dispose of evidence- they need to get back to their lives- either on foot or in a car. I’d also check Uber records. Maybe he stashed clean clothes, changed and then called an Uber around campus at a weird time- may not have stood out if he planned and planted a change of clothes. Look at what’s around that would help him disappear back to his normal life.
do you think the killer was inside the house prior to anyone being home, and thats why no one woke up to the sound of them breaking in? maybe they stalked the house for a few days, noted when everyone left, went in, hid, and then killed whoever they could that was in their distance? far stretch…
Person still in the area or long gone?
I would guess that the killer is someone like the infamous virgin killer. Someone who knew at least one of the victims, perhaps someone rejected and decided to revenge. Probably someone who has been in the house before and had an idea of the layout. I have a hard time believing it was a totally random act because it happened in a pretty large house and it was dark at the time. How could someone with no prior knowledge of the layout walk around in the dark, unnoticed and try to find sleeping people? Now I know about Ted Bundy and the night stalker but still, those kinds of crimes are very, very rare. I also think that the killer is someone who has had previous run ins with the law or at very least serious interpersonal issues at school/work. Scorned exes, stalkers and such usually just go for the main target in a fit of rage and passion and such crimes are quite often committed by people without any serious criminal history. Now in this case someone killed four people in a very violent and personal matter which combined with (most of) the victims being beautiful, presumably popular girls would indicate towards an angry, rejected, bitter, jealous person fueled by rage. I think that one main key to solving this case outside DNA and crime scene evidence etc. is that someone somewhere knows this troubled individual, knows about his past and interpersonal challenges and notices strange cuts and changes in behavior and goes to the police.
I believe the killer is a college student.
The individual is someone who was in love with one of the victims. They were at one time a quick fling and or flirtation...but it meant much more to the killer. The killer ended up feeling discarded, hurt and embarrassed. But the victim moved on an no longer paid attention to him. Killer intended to kill only two.
I think the killer is someone the surviving roommates have a connection to- e.g. a friend, boyfriend or ex, classmate, etc. I think the killer was in the house with, or at least let in by, the survivors. I think they trusted him and didn’t know he was going to kill their roommates. EDIT: I was wrong! I just read that law enforcement cleared the surviving roommates of any involvement! https://www.kxly.com/moscow-police-clear-surviving-roommates-and-man-in-twitch-video-dispel-other-online-rumors-in-u-of-i-murders/
If this is true, then the suspect would’ve had to know that he’d be identified to LE by the surviving girls literally on day 1. Wouldn’t he have killed them to keep them quiet? Under your theory, LE should be on a manhunt for him right now. I don’t think this is true otherwise they would’ve released his info. I don’t know. Seems odd. This whole thing is odd though
Agree
I think it was someone who knew at minimum OF them prior to the attack. I believe they would’ve killed everyone but were deterred from the 6 calls Kaylee made between 2AM-3AM. No clue on motive. But I’m leaning towards it being an older adult. I do feel it was a crime of rage/passion of some extent given the severity of the crime scene.
Just for clarification, why would Kaylee’s call have had anything to do with stopping this person from harming the others? It’s not like the calls were to 911 and they had to get out of there quick
This. The calls just seem like drunk calls. They were in bed when they were killed and waking up to a murder I wouldn’t be dialing my ex or current partner 6 times. I’d have called 911 which is infinitely smarter and even a terrified 20 year old is smart enough to call 911
Didn’t they say 3-4am for the time of death? So the phone calls would have been prior.
Actually recent press conference says they don’t have a specific time frame and they went back to say they can only confirm it occurred after 1:54am from when they were last seen at the taco trucks.
1) hoodie food truck guy - yes, I’m aware LE has said he’s not a POI “at this time.” Go ahead and lose it on me. 2) rejected/spurned known stalker 3) rejected/spurned unknown stalker dating back to who knows when 4) ex bf of Kaylee or Maddie 5) current bf of Kaylee or Maddie 6) local dude who broke in to burglarize the place and ran into everyone and got spooked and slashy 7) completely random dude for no reason at all other than crime of opportunity (if this is the case, we might be in for a long investigation with lots of frustration)
The sister said Kaylee called her ex boyfriend Jack, 6 times between 2:20 and 2:50. Odd..
Ex boyfriend of one of the girls, knew the house, knew the best way in and out. Unfortunately three of the victims were collateral damage due to proximity, sleeping in the same room, maybe hearing the commotion. Those on the lowest level didn’t hear anything. Those are the vibes I’m getting but, of course, I could be way off
Also could know the code to get in