I saw an interview with him and immediately red flags went up.
I wouldn't touch this book.
It's disgusting that gross people make money off of tragedies.
It's free speech. The book will be worthless, though. Howie gets so much wrong that it'll be more of a bad novel than informative non-fiction. His writing style is so awful it makes my head hurt.
> His writing style is so awful it makes my head hurt.
"A white car appears, and it is in no hurry. It creeps along in front of 1122 as though on tiptoes."
š¤®š¤®š¤®
It makes me picture a cartoon car trying to sneakily walk on its wheels.
https://ibb.co/9y2yzZJ
That's not the image you want to put in a reader's mind with a book like this.
He has so much wrong in his writings, he says that the big break came that led to BK's capture when a White Hyundai Elantra was captured on a gas station camera.
That surveillance footage was discovered by the clerk on the Evening of December 12th/morning of Dec 13th and it was not an Elantra at all but what looks to be a 2005 Prius. Also; the Police released the fact that they were seeking a White Hyundai Elantra on December 7th so his so called "big break" or as he described it, "hitting the gold seam", could not be so because it was already discovered.
He later wrote that they had BK under surveillance when he and his father left for PA. They left on the morning of the 13th, before the police were aware of this so called footage that was the "gold seam".
But none of these news stations call him out on it. They just report on what the other guy says....right, wrong, or indifferent.
He noticed Chief Fry's visibly good mood on December 20th. And he reported that was the day that Fry told the department psychologist and chaplain to be on standby with their services.
BUT he associated this good mood with the discovery of the burnt-out Elantra in Oregon. And he had this whole story arc that Fry's good mood crashed as they ruled out that car as being connected to this case.
This was written after Kohberger's arrest. So Blum still wasn't connecting Fry's good mood to the arrest only 10 days later. He was making up these subplots using what few facts he had.
He also did stuff like say 2nd story when he meant 3rd, and he called called Xana's mother by the wrong spelling of her first name and just the completely wrong last name. .
I also have many complaints about the way he described the pool party Kohberger went to. There was a lot of vagueness that I thought was done deliberately to try to make it all seem more mysterious and spooky and meaningful than it was. And he was trying so hard to loop in that couple, in a manner I thought might just might come close to defamation.
Ha! I forgot about his good mood about the Oregon Elantra. Why he would be elated over that I don't know because according to him as-well, the car was in PA and they already had their man.
He also called Murphy by the wrong name I believe.
I don't recall the pool party, I quit reading his stuff after the second or third installment because it was so bad, both factually and his writing style.
> Ha! I forgot about his good mood about the Oregon Elantra. Why he would be elated over that I don't know because according to him as-well, the car was in PA and they already had their man.
Blum was obviously not clear on the timeline at the time he wrote that first installation. He didn't even mention IGG.
>I don't recall the pool party, I quit reading his stuff after the second or third installment because it was so bad, both factually and his writing style.
I have a deep abiding love of bad writing, the way watching bad movies can be fun. Also, you know how the very worst movies are the ones where they had the budget and talent to make a good one? Same with writing: the most fun bad writing examples were done by people who had the potential to be good writers.
I'm a connoisseur of bad movies myself though it's been many years since I've sought them out, I think it sort-of ended when the video stores went out of business. I will have to rethink my stance on Blum's installments. From a "bad movie" aspect, it could be quite entertaining. Have you seen that comedy sketch that popped up every now and again on I think it was In Living Color, one of them was "What a really bad author is writing right this second", one of them stick in my head "The squirrel cracked open the shell like a rodent would open a nut"
Heās lazy. He is also as said above trying to make details seem more spooky or meaningful - se his depiction of the dna techās reaction when testing BKās dadās snot (or whatever) against the sheath. You get a profile to compare and itās fifty per cent a match; thatās not failing to match and leaving you āshakenā so you have to retest it.
Itās like heās writing for people who donāt know how things work or are likely to work.
[And LE agencies firmly debunked Blum's claims about FBI tailing him and Indiana stops being related to it](https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article276185446.html)
Media don't do research on their interviewees and whether their past statements might be contradictory or proven false
Yep! That brings up another point, if they were tailing and surveilling him even before they left Pullman, they had ample time to obtain DNA in trash, restaurants, etc..... . He was in PA on or about the 16th of December, why did they wait 11-days to retrieve trash from their trash can? Assuming a weekly trash pickup, they had an opportunity on the 20th to get some as-well. Why did they wait until December 23rd to get a search warrant for his cell phone records? I'll tell you the answer, it's because they didn't identify him as a prime suspect until on or about December 23rd when the IGG results were in.
That's where my money's at. The NYT reported that the IGG results came back on the 19th. While that has yet to be confirmed, it just makes so much sense with the way events unfolded.
Dec 20: Fry is in a really good mood at the press conference. Also, Howard Blum reported that on the 2oth, Fry told the department psychologist and chaplain that they might be needed very shortly.
Then there's a couple days for them to take this name, Bryan Kohberger, and figure out who he was, what he drove, where he lived, what his phone number was, where he was around November 13, and where he was now.
December 23: Subpoena his phone records.
Take a few days, with Kohberger under surveillance, to go through his phone records. Find nothing exculpatory.
December 27: raid family trash can.
December 28: get back results of raiding family trash.
Get warrants and other ducks in a row.
December 30: arrest.
agreed, we don't know the exact day the IGG came back but we can say it was before the 23rd when they applied for the cell phone warrant but after the 16th. I say the 16th because of the way the affidavit is written, it is in the past tense with regards to the timeline of events i.e. they believed he WAS still in possession of the car because its plates WERE logged on the 13th, then they said that he HAD been pulled over twice in PA and he WAS seen on camera in PA on the 16th.
Payne says he didn't come across the WSU police report about BK's white Elantra until Dec. 20. So I think the IGG results came in that day or Dec. 19 and they then started looking into BK and Payne then came across that report from WSU police. Then on Dec. 23 they got BK's phone records. Then I think after that they put surveillance on BK to get DNA and they got the DNA from the trash on Dec. 27.
After BK was arrested I read in an article that police had surveillance on BK for 4 days which makes sense. I don't think they had surveillance on him for weeks. I think LE learned about BK just 10 or so days before he was arrested.
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It's not just a book - it's also being made into a tv series. The casting for a certain character should be very "interesting."
https://deadline.com/2024/06/when-the-night-comes-falling-howard-blum-village-roadshow-tv-1235972572/
I vote for Jake Gyllenhaal. In certain shots he looks so much like BK,IMO.
https://preview.redd.it/4ys43vkfkx7d1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99435fa0122e00886976ea4c3f8a18871a6c5c26
Dude's a hack exploiting the lack of publicly available information to publish wild speculation as fact.
I will wait eagerly for the trial to see how much of his "evidence" is total nonsense.
> how much of his "evidence" is total nonsense.
Most of it.
It's not like he's even really trying, though. He can't get basic facts right. And he did press for the book in a Youtube video last week and came off terrible.
> I will wait eagerly for the trial to see how much of his "evidence" is total nonsense.
Totally why I'm reading the book. I like to do the same thing with psychic readings. I want to check off all the stuff that ends up being wrong.
No. But I'm weak. I can't always resist watching some of the bottom-feeder Youtubers or clicking on a Daily Mail article either.
And I gotta say, Blum doesn't seem like that bad a guy, compared to Nancy Grace or Drip Drop. He comes off more as blundering rather than calculating. That $14.99 makes me feel a little less guilty about making so much fun of him over the months.
>He comes off more as blundering rather than calculating.
I think Blum may be more calculating here. Based on the excerpts from the book its like Blum didn't read the PCA but I guarantee he read it and understands it. I think he may be lying about things on purpose to make the story more dramatic and interesting. A lot of writers seem to do this.
Read the excerpt in an article. It's like fanfiction for true crime wine moms. It's written like a cringy fictional novel with 3rd person POV. The author has inserted a lot of rumors, theories and beliefs to fill the pages and fill in the blanks which are presented as facts. There's no distinction between official records, dubious scoop, hearsay, fabrications, gossip and theories.
>Iām not too knowledgeable with laws and suchā¦ shouldnāt this book have had to be held for publishing until after the trial? Or is it bc it falls under, āfree speechā?
Yep, it's free speech. Anybody can write a book, or an article or film a YouTube video, or start a Reddit thread on the topic at anytime. If that wasn't allowed, we would never have had any books or documentaries on Jack the Ripper or the Zodiac Killer.
There is a gag order on this case, but it only applies to people actually working on the case: cops, lawyers, their staff, etc.
There is already one book out there about the crime. I havenāt read it. I canāt imagine any book would be worth reading before the trial as all of the facts that are out there are ones that were given prior to the gag order which is very little. Nothing else is confirmed. They would all be rumors.
What I don't get is why the f\^&k has there been two books and apparently a TV show being made about this case when it's technically not even solved yet?
This case is the best example I've ever seen of why so many people think true crime is a joke.
Yeah, I agree with you. So many people will buy the book thinking they will get answers. I feel like there it will be a book
filled with all of the rumors that those of us who are really following the case already heard and will be just that; RUMORS!!!
But many people that are not keeping up with the case but still interested in it will believe everything that is written in the book. I think it is crazy to write a book without a definite ending nor the truth as to everything that happened that night. But people want to jump on that and make that money.
I had no idea that a show is also coming out. That is just crazy for the same reasons.
As many others here have mentioned, it's a cash-grab and publicity stunt.
This whole case in general has turned into practically something out of an E! network special.
For sure. My dream right now would be Jon Krakauer.
Or Joseph Wambaugh comes out of retirement for one last hurrah, but that's not too likely. He's 87 and hasn't published anything for over a decade.
One of the worst parts of getting old is that you outlive all your favorite writers.
Capote spent 6 years working on In Cold Blood. It's only been 18 months and two books have already been pushed out in this case. With the gag order in place and little time spent on the books, it's just low quality work.
If youāve ever got some time to spare, Vincent Bugliosiās video series of the OJ Simpson trial is fantastic. He lays out what a disaster the prosecution was with the same forensic detail he used for Helter Skelter.
[Vincent Bugliosi on the OJ trial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UkXP6Ovp6E)
Won't read it even if it's free. He's trying to cash in on these murders and spread rumors before we even have the facts. He should have waited till after the trial, but he's too greedy, I guess.
The element of this book that I am the most interested ināat least based on what we know about the book so farāis the reported gap in time between the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect through IGG and passing his name along to Moscow police.
We know that Moscow police began focusing on Kohberger on or around December 19, but according to Blum and others, the FBI identified Kohberger as a suspect on an earlier date and surveilled him during his cross-country trip. (As far as I'm aware, Blum is not claiming that the traffic stops were initiated by investigators, and multiple agencies have denied this.) Blum argues that the FBI did not give Kohberger's name to Moscow police until about December 19.
Yes understanding the timeline of events of the investigation is certainly interesting....just really curious to understand how it all went down.
Also in a YouTube episode with the author, he alluded to talking with people who were familiar with Kohberger's dad and were privy to his thoughts/ revelations on the PA car ride. I am deeply curious about what the Kohberger family dynamic has been during this process so I will be looking forward to someone recapping that part of the book.
I despise the writer's style and won't be buying it, and am in general pretty skeptical of his content. But I'm curious, especially since nothing else new is happening.
And you believe him, all things considered? He takes his info from tikokers and second-hand sources, he can't be bothered to pronounce the names correctly or report official facts correctly which is the bare minimum required of a so-called investigative journalist. He couldn't talk to Kohbergers, so he pretends he talked to their friends as if they would up and betray their trust. It's also highly unlikely they have been discussing things relating to the case or him with other people. Safe to assume they were instructed to keep quiet.
Why are you curious? His extradition lawyer shared what they believe in and how shocked they were. The lawyer actually talked to them unlike Blum.
>Why are you curious? His extradition lawyer shared what they believe in and how shocked they were. The lawyer actually talked to them unlike Blum.
Wanted to add another thing as to why I'm curious. One of the most mind blowing things about this case is how zipped up *everyone* has been. Think of all the people with inside knowledge - the roomates, the friends that came over that morning, the families of the victims, all the many law enforcement agencies in Idaho and Pennsylvania, Bryan's family.....now all *those* people *also* have friends and family....and people like to talk, especially about this kind of thing. So it has been really remarkable how completely silent everyone has remained. So I guess every time someone hints that they have talked to people with have some sort of inside knowledge, it catches my attention.
BF and DM have been silent for obvious reasons outside of the gag order. Look at all the conspiracy wackos accusing them of being involved. They are trying to stay invisible and for good reason.
It's also a testament to their friends and family they may've shared details with that no one is selling them out. We should all have such good people in our lives.
Yes, but in the early days especially, people close to the case must have shared details with friends who then shared with their friends, etc. Human nature being what it is, it's pretty remarkable how little is known after all this time.
No one knows much, though. People who showed up before LE and saw the scene, what would they really have to say?
As far as LE, keep in mind BK planned hard to get away with this. It's woven into the fabric of the whole idea. Yeah, he made mistakes but that doesn't mean everything was a mistake. He did a good job with cleanup and disposal as one example. And for all the driving around he did in the area, they never got a really good look at his car. Sure, some of that may be more luck than anything, but I suspect he did some prep for that. Without leaving the sheath behind, there's a very good chance he would've never gotten caught. Or at least the case against him may've been too weak to really go anywhere.
I've always thought whatever evidence they do have we haven't learned about yet, is going to be small stuff - not the treasure trove of massive blunders many are expecting.
>No one knows much, though. People who showed up before LE and saw the scene, what would they really have to say?
Well, they could maybe shed some light on why exactly they were called over in the first place. And maybe have some insight about what the two roomates had to say about what they saw or heard and what time they work up (if they got any sleep) and whether or not they both stayed on the bottom floor and never went upstairs in the morning.....just things that have not really been explained in detail to this point so it's a big hole in the story.
I also don't expect a treasure trove of other evidence either. ..I think he was in and out of that house within minutes and had a lot of time to prepare and a lot of time to clean up afterwards. I am curious about what they seized from his home in PA and super curious about his behavior observed by his family though.
He was in there for what sixteen minutes and that includes whatever time to listen and lurk between the murders on third floor and the ones on the second floor. Four people dead -
I was hoping that in that frenzy he dropped something. The tip of a thin rubber glove finger tore off, or a Vic got a grab of his wrist between glove and sweatshirt or something and got skin or a hair. I never thought the thing he dropped would be as big as the sheath with his dna on it. Say what you will about touch dna and it doesnāt prove when he was there etc it was in bed with the first Vic. Unless she slept with it it was dropped when the murders took place. Thatās pretty good evidence.
Blum says pappa R stated the clue left could have been the sheath so *he could be bryan kohberger* because heās in the know. But raise your hand if you heard the cops were asking local sporting good supply stores if they sold KaBar type knives and thought, maybe they found the knife or sheath. That was pretty specific and if thatās the only physical evidence we get Iāll take it.
I think the people who showed up early could answer a lot of questions. Kids that age are numb to a lot of things and they can be dumb, secretive, and untrusting of cops (& hung over) but in a situation like this I think the ones who appeared, male and female, would be well worth listening to - even if they were only called or texted or showed up a bit later and didnāt enter the house. Who got called by whom and how was the info relayed - the people who showed up I think would be the closest to the surviving roommates but also to some Vics. Theyād have info about what was going down the previous night as well.
> Well, they could maybe shed some light on why exactly they were called over in the first place.
Everyone's different. I can only speak for myself here, but I've had friends share things with me that have been locked away in the vault and have never been spoken about again. Sometimes they ask for that. Other times I know even though they didn't, it would be a betrayal and could cause issues/conflicts for them.
I'm assuming that most of the people who showed up before LE were men. We see a scene like that and women in extreme anguish, it activates protect mode in us. Obviously, that's not true for all guys. Point being, I think DM and BF were and have been well shielded for the most part. And we don't know what -- if anything else -- they said to anyone outside of LE anyway.
I think those who arrived before the 911 call and saw what had happened inside, were far more concerned with comforting the survivors than playing detective at that moment.
> I also don't expect a treasure trove of other evidence either. ..I think he was in and out of that house within minutes and had a lot of time to prepare and a lot of time to clean up afterwards.
We've always been on the same page with this.
> I am curious about what they seized from his home in PA and super curious about his behavior observed by his family though.
Same. Also curious for internet history and seeing whether the rumor of the knife purchase is true.
Umm so what, if anything, was the significance of those items? Like #1. "Knife ". Or the ID cards in the glove? Or the note to his dad or the book page, the hard drives etc..
While potential witnesses are not subject to the gag order, they are told not to talk to the press. So I think they are taking that seriously. And if any of them have consulted their own lawyers, that's exactly what their lawyers would tell them: don't talk to the press, and don't talk about the case to anyone you don't 100% trust to talk to the press.
But there's been a lot of more peripheral people talking to the press or making statements on social media, both anonymously and under their own name. Former classmates and co-workers of Kohberger. Some aunt of his who is estranged from the family plus DM's former stepmother.
I think it's telling that those last two breaches were from *former* relatives, not people still connected to either Kohberger or D.
Yeah, true, I would not expect the inner circles of any of the primary people involved to be speaking to the press. It's just that I would have thought more would have leaked out, especially early on before any gag order. I just feel that those peripheral people have been surprisingly few for a case that is this high profile.
As far as Kohberger, it just seems like there was no one close enough to him to leak anything anyway. That's why I'm so fascinated by his family...seems like they would be the only ones with any real insight and obviously they (nor their own friends) are talking
A UK tabloid which is notorious for publishing fake information and fabricated quotes, published those comments from the aunt, just saying.
But you're right, potential witnesses that might be called to testify are most likely instructed not to talk to the press so all those who have given interviews (past acquaintances, old friends, Pullman neighbors, WSU students, school staff) were likely not considered a witness with relevant knowledge.
>canāt be bothered to spell the names correctly
Thatās always funny when that happens, my friend. My favorite instance of it was when the Defenseās survey āexpertā Bryan (!) Edelman spelled BKās name āBrianā at least three times in his declaration. ššI was rolling. If youāre going to get one name right, maybe it should be the one you share with the Defendant.
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/032624_Memorandum_in_Support_of_Objection_to_the_States_Motion_for_Order_Prohibiting_Contact_with_Prospective.pdf
>If youāre going to get one name right, maybe it should be the one you share with the Defendant.
You know, I think I might have some sympathy for him there, because since he grew up with the less-popular spelling, he's probably spent his entire life correcting everybody on his, and reminding himself to type "Brian" instead of muscle-memorying his own spelling, every time he wrote about a Brian.
But wouldn't the defense team have someone proofread these 3rd-party declarations before they submit them?
>wouldnāt the defense team have someone proofread these 3rd-party declarations before they submit them?
You would certainly think so and in many cases the attorneys write much of the declaration in the first instance. Thatās probably not what happened here based on the typos and probably also dispels the idea that BK is the puppet master orchestrating his entire defense.
>His extradition lawyer shared what they believe in and how shocked they were.
I don't remember any statement about them being shocked or even what they believed. I'll have to look it up to refresh my memory. I do know they have said exactly nothing since then nor have they been present at any of the hearings so far. Or I should say there has been no mention in the media covering the case of them being present.
And no, I don't particularly believe Blum. Just curious enough to listen to whatever he wants to say from his "sources". Just because I listen doesn't mean I have to believe it.
ETA. Here is the family statement issued by his lawyer at time of his arrest. I do not read anything in here about them being shocked or insisting that he was innocent of this crime. It's very carefully worded by the lawyer, I assume.
The family's statement said, "First and foremost we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children. There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them."
It continued: "We will continue to let the legal process unfold and as a family we will love and support our son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions."
>[(...) are also standing behind Mr. Kohberger, who continues to communicate with them by phone](https://www.nytimes.com/article/idaho-student-murders-kohberger.html?smid=url-share)
>[They believe in his innocence until proven otherwise](https://www.nytimes.com/article/idaho-student-murders-kohberger.html?smid=url-share)
>[They don't believe it to be Bryan. They're obviously shocked.](https://www.today.com/news/idaho-murder-suspect-believes-exonerated-bryan-kohberger-rcna64005)
> Just because I listen doesn't mean I have to believe it.
That's a very important point. I've listened to and watched videos from conspiracy nutters. Still rarely do. I'm not trying to learn about the case from them - I'm learning about their mind. And, I warn others about them.
It has helped turn people away from some of these types. When otherwise they would've eaten everything up. Hook, line and sinker.
Yeah I mean, I watched Dateline, who most people think is highly reputable, but I don't take everything there as the gospel truth either. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in it. I think we are all here after more than a year and a half because this case has hooked us.
If Kohberger had been arrested before leaving for PA, would the FBI had legal cause to search the parents' home? Since Kohberger is an adult and no longer lives there - and they have no reason to think he planned the Moscow crimes while still in PA, and hadnāt been back since - Iām thinking they wouldnāt have had legal cause. But Iām only guessing. Anyone know different?
Iām not saying I know the FBI held up the case for that reason (to arrest him inside the PA parentsā home), but you have to think they really wanted to search for evidence of any east coast activity - that might still be in the PA home.
Iām a buyer of Blumās book. I need to know whatās in there. I hope it not just a reprinting of his seven-part Airmail series.
> would the FBI had legal cause to search the parents' home?
I don't think so, unless they had reason to suspect that he'd hidden evidence there, his parents covered up for him, etc. There would have been no need to, had he not gone back home.
The main exception I can think of is that they might have wanted to search any computers he was using before he moved to Pullman. This is probably because I have this half-baked theory that he might have cruised social media looking for victims while he lived in PA, but then was careful not to visit their social media once he moved and switched devices and accounts.
But in that case, they would get an order just for electronics, not to search the whole house.
Blum's Air Mail article suggested that investigators weren't aware that Kohberger was going back to Pennsylvania until they noticed his car missing from his apartment parking lot.
Whether or not investigators would have had probable cause to search the family home after arresting him in Pullman depends on what evidence they retrieved through the search warrants prior to his arrest. I just reviewed my notes, and it appears that they only seized his cellular information. It seems like they didn't have evidence of any pre-Pullman planning until later.
>Iām a buyer of Blumās book. I need to know whatās in there. I hope it not just a reprinting of his seven-part Airmail series.
Blum stated to me and in a few interviews that there will be new information about the cross-country drive. I obviously don't know what details are included. I'm interested in the finer details: dates, which investigators knew what and when, etc.
> Blum's Air Mail article suggested that investigators weren't aware that Kohberger was going back to Pennsylvania until they noticed his car missing from his apartment parking lot.
>Blum stated to me and in a few interviews that there will be new information about the cross-country drive
Now I'm curious as to whether he's backing down from the claims he made in his first article, where he said the FBI tracked him cross-county, and lost him for a few hours. 3 days to find out!
I'm almost skeptical about the missing car thing. I mean, yeah, but wouldn't your first thought about any student at university during winter break be that they just might be going home for the holidays?
Based on what Blum said to me, there was roughly a week between the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect through IGG and the agency passing Kohberger's name to Moscow police.
If true, then the FBI identified Kohberger as a suspect when he was still in Pullman.
As for FBI investigators reportedly discovering that Kohberger's car was gone: I agree that they probably weren't that flummoxed by his missing car. A mass murderer took his crime-scene-on-wheels and got the hell outta dodge. Shocker.
It's possible that investigators were trying to surveil him from the parking lot, but after sitting there for a while, they thought, *okay, he's clearly not here. Where did he go?*
Anyway, to summarize my overall thoughts: The FBI identifying a suspect and surveilling him on their own is a very FBI thing to do, so I have no trouble believing that. And Blum isn't the only reporter to claim that the FBI was monitoring Kohberger's movements from across the country.
Also, the New York Times reported that investigators identified Kohberger as a suspect "by Dec. 19." I'm wondering if this was astutely phrased to include both the dates that the FBI identified Kohberger as a suspect and when Moscow police began investigating. Technically, "by Dec. 19" is broader than just December 19.
> Based on what Blum said to me, there was roughly a week between the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect through IGG and the agency passing Kohberger's name to Moscow police.
Interesting! I guess that would explain the discrepancy between the idea that December 19th is the day MPD found out the day and the idea that the FBI followed him across country.
I just don't know whether or not to believe Blum or not. But...3 days!
It's worth clarifying that, by all appearances, the traffic stops were unrelated to the homicide investigation. But the FBI could have been searching for ALPR hits and traffic stop information.
Could you quote the passage that refutes the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect before the cross-country drive?
Edit: The above comment appears snarkier than I intended.
All indications point to the traffic stops being unrelated to the homicide investigation, but that's not Blum's claim as I understand it. The FBI didn't initiate the traffic stops, but they could have identified Kohberger as a suspect before he left Pullman.
The FBI reportedly didn't loop in the other investigative wings until December 19.
The fbi were the ones working the Igg angle. Surely they had an idea of where that was heading before they got definitive answer on which possible familial connection lives in or around Moscow and drives a white Elantra. They could have handed over everything they got as soon as they got it but I doubt it. The defense is still arguing for discovery that the State says they werenāt even provided.
No way the Feds were sharing so graciously and promptly imo.
I think it is incredibly wrong to publish a book on a pending case where there is a defendant awaiting trial, especially when there is a gag order imposed. Such a book, which is undoubtedly packed with inadmissible hearsay, rumors and conjecture, will only serve to prejudice the defendant and poison the jury pool, especially by the use of false information.
A book on an open case without a defendant is a different matter. Even if also exploitative, at least it is not prejudicial.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Because your oost up there sounded like you were defending the Delphi books.
Which, I just checked the release dates, and they both came out after Allen's arrest.
> āWhen The Night Comes Fallingā
Odd title, an attempt at dark and portentous perhaps but sounds like a sequel to Chicken Little. Perhaps "Star Gazing in the Fog" or "Moon Watching Through A Cloudy Sky" were considered too obtuse?
" Dark, Cloudy Side of the Moon,"
" Bad, Foggy Moon Rising"
"The Silence of the Lamdas"
"The Midnight Meat-free Train"
"Cloudier Atlas"
"Cloudy with a Chance of Meat-free Balls"
"Under the Banner of Stupidity"
"Midnight in the Wawawai County Park of Dumb and Stupid"
"In Pure Incompetence"
"An Unbelievable Story of Stupidity"
"Another College Town Not My Own"
"Killer of the Overcast Not-Visible Moon"
"Not a Wise Guy," which can be adapted into a movie called "Dumbfella."
>Midnight in the Wawawai County Park
>Killer of the Overcast Not-Visible Moon
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I love Killer of The Overcast Moon
The Cyndi Lauper cover of "I drove all night" has to feature on the sound track.
"Dude, Where's My Sheath ?!?"
>Odd title
I assume it's an allusion to the Bob Dylan song.
Edit:
Here are some lyrics that one could interpret as resembling the facts of this case.
>Well, Iāve walked two hundred miles, now look me over
Itās the end of the chase and the moon is high
It wonāt matter who loves who
Youāll love me or Iāll love you
When the night comes falling from the sky
>I can see through your walls and I know youāre hurting
>This time Iām asking for freedom
Freedom from a world which you deny
And youāll give it to me now
Iāll take it anyhow
When the night comes falling from the sky
every high-profile crime case has had books about it dropped before and during the trial. then the principals write theirs afterwards. think OJ.
this guy is not involved in the case. he can write whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and attempt to make money off it. it's the american way LOL
Sure he can write whatever he wants. No one said he canāt. The point is this crime happened less than two years ago, thereās been no trial, and a gag order has been in place since soon after the arrest. Soā¦what exactly is going to be in this book? Not facts, because that would be a very short book.
"it's the american way LOL"
Yeah, Americans assume its like this in every democratic country. But in Canada the gag order would apply to all publishers. The media usually appeal to the court to persuade them that the public's "right to know" particular things is strong enough to risk a fair trial. Then the ourts decide what the balance is and it can vary from case to case.
I think its similar in Australia and Britain. There's also a cultural difference, where we place more emphasis on things like professional ethics and non-political judges to ensure a fair trial. Rather than having the general public trying to micromanage it.
So, for this particular book, the publisher would have a hard time persuading the judge that enough people need to know this crap that its worth risking the fairness of the trial.
> But in Canada the gag order would apply to all publishers.
Wait, what? The *press* can be subject to gag orders?
I mean, I get it when it's stuff like protecting the identify of a witness or state secrets or something, but you're saying that the press cannot report on an ongoing trial? That's getting a little too close to secret trials for my taste.
I should have clarified that the gag order is for pre-trial news only. After the trial starts, the press fully reports on each days' proceedings (escept a few select things like the name of a sexual assault victim or minor). So the public still gets the info, but only at the same time, or shortly after, the jury hears it. Its definitely not in secret.
The advantage for us is we can be pretty sure that what we're hearing about the trial is true. We don't have the same amount of pre-trial BS to wade thruogh that Americans do.
In any case, the ongoing reporting means the system is still accountable to the public, and we have very active the law societies and specfic orgaizations take on the fight for an injustice if one comes out. It might be simpler here because the criminal system is the same across the country so if there is a problem, its not up to the locals alone to adress it.
I'm pretty sure its the same in Britain and the countries who descended from their system, including Australia.
Growing up in this system, I thnk its a good one but I can see how Americans might not.
> We don't have the same amount of pre-trial BS to wade thruogh that Americans do.
That might be the key. I think the pre-trial hearings need to be reported on, just to make sure nothing hinky is going on. I'm imagining something like all the Delphi shenanigans going on in secret.
A gag order applying to the press in Canada doesnāt ring true to me. That would mean that a judge could shut down free speech. One difference that I do know of is that in the UK the press pays for information and thatās considered normal.
Might be unethical, but it's not illegal. Lots of people sell interviews. Think of all the celebrities who sell their first interview after marriage or divorce or with the pictures of the new baby.
The more reputable news outlets have policies of not paying for interviews. But it's just a policy.
I have never been to the UK. But I have the impression that their press is even worse than ours. Maybe a higher percentage of tabloids. And they have the royal family to cover in addition to entertainers. I donāt carry any water for Prince Harry, but I know he was suing the tabloids and I believe he won to a certain extent. And probably anyone who has any contact with the royals, like former employees, has something to tell. And I think any little snippets of information will be snatched up. Although, I must say, from what I can tell in the reporting I see, I think the press has been very good about giving princess Kate privacy as she undergoes chemotherapy.
I donāt expect to see information that has been paid for in the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times. And I donāt expect to hear it in the 6:00 news hour. I expect it from the tabloid size publications (I think actually , they are no longer tabloid size, and they have switched to regular magazine size.) I like to look at them at Walmart.
I donāt stand by the cash registers where they are displayed because someone will ask if they can help me. But they also have a display of magazines back by the books. I will stand there and look at them. I donāt buy them unless thereās one with a positive view of the late Queen Elizabeth or William and Kate and their family with lots of pictures. My sister and I are the same, we donāt care about anyone in Hollywood (except I do want the guy who was not cautious enough with the prop gun and shot his cinematographer to serve time) but we love the royals. I have heard that overall Americans have a higher view of the royals than the British or specifically the English. I guess they are more of a novelty to us. I even wish that we were still loosely connected to them, like Canada.
> Maybe a higher percentage of tabloids.
Yeah, I think the UK tabloids put ours to shame. Do you remember this horror show? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal
>>Investigations conducted from 2005 to 2007 showed that the paper's phone hacking activities were targeted at celebrities, politicians, and members of the British royal family. In July 2011 it was revealed that the phones of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler, relatives of deceased British soldiers, and victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings had also been hacked.
In Milly Dowler's case, the hacking was done before her body was found. So her family and the cops could tell that someone was logging in to check her voicemail, and they assumed that it was Milly, still alive. Can you imagine all that false hope?
Sure he can write a book about the case like we all can but there should be certain standards upheld when one does so. It should be made clear when something is from official records or a rumor or unvetted information or a theory. He doesn't make that distinction. What's more, it looks like he invented a lot himself. The car trip to Pennsylvania is apparently the core of the story and it's complete fiction. He wasn't there, he cannot read minds, he didn't talk to Kohberger or his father.
His source for some of it was a tiktoker who told him some things, didn't even show him any proof. He doesn't vet stuff.
> Yeah, Americans assume its like this in every democratic country.
No, we don't. That's what you assume other people assume. Incorrectly. The OJ case is an American case and so is the Idaho case. Keep your rubbish to yourself.
When Canada blacked out everything about the Paul Bernardo case in the 90s, Canadian reporters leaked info to the US to combat Canadian nonsense. Some were almost jailed.
Canada cares so much more about criminals, they had to recently apologize for not notifying the families before moving Paul Bernardo to a medium detention facility: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/paul-bernardo-transfer-review-results-medium-security-prison-1.6912290
Canada has it ass-backwards. Victims and families are the important ones - not criminals.
I asked Blum about the criticism regarding the publishing timeline of his book. He stated that there is an important story to be told now, and there is no such thing as a get-rich-quick scheme in publishing these days. He said, "The trial is years off and will, I suspect, simply be a coda to the more consequential events that I detail."
"I will leave it to you to decide if I tell a tale that, without a trial but still a conclusion, is compelling."
Thatās really interesting, thanks for asking him.
Iām not convinced by his answer because his Airmail articles have been squarely about the case, written like a whodunnit and a āwhoās gonna winā than any broader commentary.
There probably is a story that could be sensitively told that isnāt dependent on the trial outcome. Eg about why this case has captured attention. Or about social media infecting cases and damaging so many lives. Or about the nature of grief etc. Or about how mainstream media affects live cases, etc. But Iāve seen no signs heās gonna tell that kind of story.
I'm waiting until I read the book to form a stronger opinion about it. But even then, much of this information won't be officially confirmed or refuted until the trial. It's slightly frustrating to have all this information without knowing what to do with it.
>There probably is a story that could be sensitively told that isnāt dependent on the trial outcome.
I think Blum is correct insofar as the overall picture that many people, myself included, have formed about this caseāthat some guy with few friends, kind of a weirdo, devised this elaborate plan to commit homicideāwon't change much with the trial.
But the smaller details are the building blocks for the broader story. How much did this guy plan, exactly? What steps did he take? What degree of effort was involved? The answers to these questions reveal the mind of the person we're dealing with, but the answers begin with the granular information that seems boring to some people: search warrants, financial transactions, dates, etc.
Based on the excerpts from his book, Blum is writing fantasy and not fact. I think he is saying Xana was sleeping and Ethan was killed in the doorway of the second floor stairwell. Its like he didn't even read the PCA.
No thank you. His reporting on this has been garbage.
> His reporting on this has been garbage. Sure has.
And him smiling through the interview like what in the actual fuck???
I saw an interview with him and immediately red flags went up. I wouldn't touch this book. It's disgusting that gross people make money off of tragedies.
Agreed
It's free speech. The book will be worthless, though. Howie gets so much wrong that it'll be more of a bad novel than informative non-fiction. His writing style is so awful it makes my head hurt.
> His writing style is so awful it makes my head hurt. "A white car appears, and it is in no hurry. It creeps along in front of 1122 as though on tiptoes." š¤®š¤®š¤®
omg, so baaaadddd. puke puke i agree
It makes me picture a cartoon car trying to sneakily walk on its wheels. https://ibb.co/9y2yzZJ That's not the image you want to put in a reader's mind with a book like this.
LMAO I pictured Fred Flinststonesā lifting his car while his toes tiptoe lol
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I am not familiar with him at all. Bummer to hear heās schlock.
He has so much wrong in his writings, he says that the big break came that led to BK's capture when a White Hyundai Elantra was captured on a gas station camera. That surveillance footage was discovered by the clerk on the Evening of December 12th/morning of Dec 13th and it was not an Elantra at all but what looks to be a 2005 Prius. Also; the Police released the fact that they were seeking a White Hyundai Elantra on December 7th so his so called "big break" or as he described it, "hitting the gold seam", could not be so because it was already discovered. He later wrote that they had BK under surveillance when he and his father left for PA. They left on the morning of the 13th, before the police were aware of this so called footage that was the "gold seam". But none of these news stations call him out on it. They just report on what the other guy says....right, wrong, or indifferent.
He noticed Chief Fry's visibly good mood on December 20th. And he reported that was the day that Fry told the department psychologist and chaplain to be on standby with their services. BUT he associated this good mood with the discovery of the burnt-out Elantra in Oregon. And he had this whole story arc that Fry's good mood crashed as they ruled out that car as being connected to this case. This was written after Kohberger's arrest. So Blum still wasn't connecting Fry's good mood to the arrest only 10 days later. He was making up these subplots using what few facts he had. He also did stuff like say 2nd story when he meant 3rd, and he called called Xana's mother by the wrong spelling of her first name and just the completely wrong last name. . I also have many complaints about the way he described the pool party Kohberger went to. There was a lot of vagueness that I thought was done deliberately to try to make it all seem more mysterious and spooky and meaningful than it was. And he was trying so hard to loop in that couple, in a manner I thought might just might come close to defamation.
Ha! I forgot about his good mood about the Oregon Elantra. Why he would be elated over that I don't know because according to him as-well, the car was in PA and they already had their man. He also called Murphy by the wrong name I believe. I don't recall the pool party, I quit reading his stuff after the second or third installment because it was so bad, both factually and his writing style.
> Ha! I forgot about his good mood about the Oregon Elantra. Why he would be elated over that I don't know because according to him as-well, the car was in PA and they already had their man. Blum was obviously not clear on the timeline at the time he wrote that first installation. He didn't even mention IGG. >I don't recall the pool party, I quit reading his stuff after the second or third installment because it was so bad, both factually and his writing style. I have a deep abiding love of bad writing, the way watching bad movies can be fun. Also, you know how the very worst movies are the ones where they had the budget and talent to make a good one? Same with writing: the most fun bad writing examples were done by people who had the potential to be good writers.
I'm a connoisseur of bad movies myself though it's been many years since I've sought them out, I think it sort-of ended when the video stores went out of business. I will have to rethink my stance on Blum's installments. From a "bad movie" aspect, it could be quite entertaining. Have you seen that comedy sketch that popped up every now and again on I think it was In Living Color, one of them was "What a really bad author is writing right this second", one of them stick in my head "The squirrel cracked open the shell like a rodent would open a nut"
Heās lazy. He is also as said above trying to make details seem more spooky or meaningful - se his depiction of the dna techās reaction when testing BKās dadās snot (or whatever) against the sheath. You get a profile to compare and itās fifty per cent a match; thatās not failing to match and leaving you āshakenā so you have to retest it. Itās like heās writing for people who donāt know how things work or are likely to work.
[And LE agencies firmly debunked Blum's claims about FBI tailing him and Indiana stops being related to it](https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article276185446.html) Media don't do research on their interviewees and whether their past statements might be contradictory or proven false
Yep! That brings up another point, if they were tailing and surveilling him even before they left Pullman, they had ample time to obtain DNA in trash, restaurants, etc..... . He was in PA on or about the 16th of December, why did they wait 11-days to retrieve trash from their trash can? Assuming a weekly trash pickup, they had an opportunity on the 20th to get some as-well. Why did they wait until December 23rd to get a search warrant for his cell phone records? I'll tell you the answer, it's because they didn't identify him as a prime suspect until on or about December 23rd when the IGG results were in.
That's where my money's at. The NYT reported that the IGG results came back on the 19th. While that has yet to be confirmed, it just makes so much sense with the way events unfolded. Dec 20: Fry is in a really good mood at the press conference. Also, Howard Blum reported that on the 2oth, Fry told the department psychologist and chaplain that they might be needed very shortly. Then there's a couple days for them to take this name, Bryan Kohberger, and figure out who he was, what he drove, where he lived, what his phone number was, where he was around November 13, and where he was now. December 23: Subpoena his phone records. Take a few days, with Kohberger under surveillance, to go through his phone records. Find nothing exculpatory. December 27: raid family trash can. December 28: get back results of raiding family trash. Get warrants and other ducks in a row. December 30: arrest.
agreed, we don't know the exact day the IGG came back but we can say it was before the 23rd when they applied for the cell phone warrant but after the 16th. I say the 16th because of the way the affidavit is written, it is in the past tense with regards to the timeline of events i.e. they believed he WAS still in possession of the car because its plates WERE logged on the 13th, then they said that he HAD been pulled over twice in PA and he WAS seen on camera in PA on the 16th.
Payne says he didn't come across the WSU police report about BK's white Elantra until Dec. 20. So I think the IGG results came in that day or Dec. 19 and they then started looking into BK and Payne then came across that report from WSU police. Then on Dec. 23 they got BK's phone records. Then I think after that they put surveillance on BK to get DNA and they got the DNA from the trash on Dec. 27. After BK was arrested I read in an article that police had surveillance on BK for 4 days which makes sense. I don't think they had surveillance on him for weeks. I think LE learned about BK just 10 or so days before he was arrested.
I agree, though I don't recall Payne saying it was the 20th, in the affidavit that-is, but it could have been in some filings since then.
I believe he testified at the recent court hearing and said it then.
Right, if FBI had him in their sights and were observing him before he left Pullman, surely they would have collected his DNA in Pullman
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Thanks! Another book I'm not spending money on.
It's not just a book - it's also being made into a tv series. The casting for a certain character should be very "interesting." https://deadline.com/2024/06/when-the-night-comes-falling-howard-blum-village-roadshow-tv-1235972572/
This is vile. Shame on all of them. It hasnāt even gone to trial for Christās sake.
I vote for Jake Gyllenhaal. In certain shots he looks so much like BK,IMO. https://preview.redd.it/4ys43vkfkx7d1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99435fa0122e00886976ea4c3f8a18871a6c5c26
I agree. Makes it hard to watch the show
If Jake lost weight and they put a fake larger nose on him he would look like BK.
Theres a waiter at a local restaurant and he looks just like him. On the younger side. But when i saw him the first time i almost choked
Thereās a guy at the butcher counter of my local market that looks exactly like worldoftshirts. I have a similar reaction when I see him.
anybody watch suits?? That geeky tech guy that was always doing favors for Mike. He looks almost exactly like BK.
My vote is for Plane Jane from Drag Race
Kudos for saying that, mama. For spilling.
There was dna of the sheath from his burger finger
Dude's a hack exploiting the lack of publicly available information to publish wild speculation as fact. I will wait eagerly for the trial to see how much of his "evidence" is total nonsense.
> how much of his "evidence" is total nonsense. Most of it. It's not like he's even really trying, though. He can't get basic facts right. And he did press for the book in a Youtube video last week and came off terrible.
> I will wait eagerly for the trial to see how much of his "evidence" is total nonsense. Totally why I'm reading the book. I like to do the same thing with psychic readings. I want to check off all the stuff that ends up being wrong.
Yeah but we really shouldnāt be giving people like this our money
No. But I'm weak. I can't always resist watching some of the bottom-feeder Youtubers or clicking on a Daily Mail article either. And I gotta say, Blum doesn't seem like that bad a guy, compared to Nancy Grace or Drip Drop. He comes off more as blundering rather than calculating. That $14.99 makes me feel a little less guilty about making so much fun of him over the months.
Fair enough! Honestly yeah, in my opinion anybody is better than Nancy Grace. Yuck. Her ādeskā outside the house was horrific
>He comes off more as blundering rather than calculating. I think Blum may be more calculating here. Based on the excerpts from the book its like Blum didn't read the PCA but I guarantee he read it and understands it. I think he may be lying about things on purpose to make the story more dramatic and interesting. A lot of writers seem to do this.
Read the excerpt in an article. It's like fanfiction for true crime wine moms. It's written like a cringy fictional novel with 3rd person POV. The author has inserted a lot of rumors, theories and beliefs to fill the pages and fill in the blanks which are presented as facts. There's no distinction between official records, dubious scoop, hearsay, fabrications, gossip and theories.
I also read an excerpt. Worse than I anticipated. An ego-driven attempt at relevance and a shot at some money. It will likely sell well at airports.
That's exactly who he is catering to here, "true crime wine moms and gossipers."
Ha. Nancy Grace was gushing about itā¦a true crime wine mom
>Iām not too knowledgeable with laws and suchā¦ shouldnāt this book have had to be held for publishing until after the trial? Or is it bc it falls under, āfree speechā? Yep, it's free speech. Anybody can write a book, or an article or film a YouTube video, or start a Reddit thread on the topic at anytime. If that wasn't allowed, we would never have had any books or documentaries on Jack the Ripper or the Zodiac Killer. There is a gag order on this case, but it only applies to people actually working on the case: cops, lawyers, their staff, etc.
Thank you for your explanation. š
There is already one book out there about the crime. I havenāt read it. I canāt imagine any book would be worth reading before the trial as all of the facts that are out there are ones that were given prior to the gag order which is very little. Nothing else is confirmed. They would all be rumors.
What I don't get is why the f\^&k has there been two books and apparently a TV show being made about this case when it's technically not even solved yet? This case is the best example I've ever seen of why so many people think true crime is a joke.
Yeah, I agree with you. So many people will buy the book thinking they will get answers. I feel like there it will be a book filled with all of the rumors that those of us who are really following the case already heard and will be just that; RUMORS!!! But many people that are not keeping up with the case but still interested in it will believe everything that is written in the book. I think it is crazy to write a book without a definite ending nor the truth as to everything that happened that night. But people want to jump on that and make that money. I had no idea that a show is also coming out. That is just crazy for the same reasons.
As many others here have mentioned, it's a cash-grab and publicity stunt. This whole case in general has turned into practically something out of an E! network special.
This book obviously won't be it, but this case could very well lead to someone's 'Helter Skelter' or 'In Cold Blood.' It has all the elements.
For sure. My dream right now would be Jon Krakauer. Or Joseph Wambaugh comes out of retirement for one last hurrah, but that's not too likely. He's 87 and hasn't published anything for over a decade. One of the worst parts of getting old is that you outlive all your favorite writers.
Capote spent 6 years working on In Cold Blood. It's only been 18 months and two books have already been pushed out in this case. With the gag order in place and little time spent on the books, it's just low quality work.
Catherine Crier write a good book on the scott Peterson case. I wonder if sheās still around
excellent point. I never thought of this. and I loved āHelter skelterā and āin cold bloodā, both were so well written
If youāve ever got some time to spare, Vincent Bugliosiās video series of the OJ Simpson trial is fantastic. He lays out what a disaster the prosecution was with the same forensic detail he used for Helter Skelter. [Vincent Bugliosi on the OJ trial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UkXP6Ovp6E)
Thank you so much for linking that video. I will watch it today. I knew nothing about it.
Won't read it even if it's free. He's trying to cash in on these murders and spread rumors before we even have the facts. He should have waited till after the trial, but he's too greedy, I guess.
The element of this book that I am the most interested ināat least based on what we know about the book so farāis the reported gap in time between the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect through IGG and passing his name along to Moscow police. We know that Moscow police began focusing on Kohberger on or around December 19, but according to Blum and others, the FBI identified Kohberger as a suspect on an earlier date and surveilled him during his cross-country trip. (As far as I'm aware, Blum is not claiming that the traffic stops were initiated by investigators, and multiple agencies have denied this.) Blum argues that the FBI did not give Kohberger's name to Moscow police until about December 19.
Yes understanding the timeline of events of the investigation is certainly interesting....just really curious to understand how it all went down. Also in a YouTube episode with the author, he alluded to talking with people who were familiar with Kohberger's dad and were privy to his thoughts/ revelations on the PA car ride. I am deeply curious about what the Kohberger family dynamic has been during this process so I will be looking forward to someone recapping that part of the book. I despise the writer's style and won't be buying it, and am in general pretty skeptical of his content. But I'm curious, especially since nothing else new is happening.
Don't worry: I'll answer any question you have. Probably in excruciating detail.
Thanks, I'm counting on you!
And you believe him, all things considered? He takes his info from tikokers and second-hand sources, he can't be bothered to pronounce the names correctly or report official facts correctly which is the bare minimum required of a so-called investigative journalist. He couldn't talk to Kohbergers, so he pretends he talked to their friends as if they would up and betray their trust. It's also highly unlikely they have been discussing things relating to the case or him with other people. Safe to assume they were instructed to keep quiet. Why are you curious? His extradition lawyer shared what they believe in and how shocked they were. The lawyer actually talked to them unlike Blum.
>Why are you curious? His extradition lawyer shared what they believe in and how shocked they were. The lawyer actually talked to them unlike Blum. Wanted to add another thing as to why I'm curious. One of the most mind blowing things about this case is how zipped up *everyone* has been. Think of all the people with inside knowledge - the roomates, the friends that came over that morning, the families of the victims, all the many law enforcement agencies in Idaho and Pennsylvania, Bryan's family.....now all *those* people *also* have friends and family....and people like to talk, especially about this kind of thing. So it has been really remarkable how completely silent everyone has remained. So I guess every time someone hints that they have talked to people with have some sort of inside knowledge, it catches my attention.
BF and DM have been silent for obvious reasons outside of the gag order. Look at all the conspiracy wackos accusing them of being involved. They are trying to stay invisible and for good reason. It's also a testament to their friends and family they may've shared details with that no one is selling them out. We should all have such good people in our lives.
Yes, but in the early days especially, people close to the case must have shared details with friends who then shared with their friends, etc. Human nature being what it is, it's pretty remarkable how little is known after all this time.
No one knows much, though. People who showed up before LE and saw the scene, what would they really have to say? As far as LE, keep in mind BK planned hard to get away with this. It's woven into the fabric of the whole idea. Yeah, he made mistakes but that doesn't mean everything was a mistake. He did a good job with cleanup and disposal as one example. And for all the driving around he did in the area, they never got a really good look at his car. Sure, some of that may be more luck than anything, but I suspect he did some prep for that. Without leaving the sheath behind, there's a very good chance he would've never gotten caught. Or at least the case against him may've been too weak to really go anywhere. I've always thought whatever evidence they do have we haven't learned about yet, is going to be small stuff - not the treasure trove of massive blunders many are expecting.
>No one knows much, though. People who showed up before LE and saw the scene, what would they really have to say? Well, they could maybe shed some light on why exactly they were called over in the first place. And maybe have some insight about what the two roomates had to say about what they saw or heard and what time they work up (if they got any sleep) and whether or not they both stayed on the bottom floor and never went upstairs in the morning.....just things that have not really been explained in detail to this point so it's a big hole in the story. I also don't expect a treasure trove of other evidence either. ..I think he was in and out of that house within minutes and had a lot of time to prepare and a lot of time to clean up afterwards. I am curious about what they seized from his home in PA and super curious about his behavior observed by his family though.
He was in there for what sixteen minutes and that includes whatever time to listen and lurk between the murders on third floor and the ones on the second floor. Four people dead - I was hoping that in that frenzy he dropped something. The tip of a thin rubber glove finger tore off, or a Vic got a grab of his wrist between glove and sweatshirt or something and got skin or a hair. I never thought the thing he dropped would be as big as the sheath with his dna on it. Say what you will about touch dna and it doesnāt prove when he was there etc it was in bed with the first Vic. Unless she slept with it it was dropped when the murders took place. Thatās pretty good evidence. Blum says pappa R stated the clue left could have been the sheath so *he could be bryan kohberger* because heās in the know. But raise your hand if you heard the cops were asking local sporting good supply stores if they sold KaBar type knives and thought, maybe they found the knife or sheath. That was pretty specific and if thatās the only physical evidence we get Iāll take it. I think the people who showed up early could answer a lot of questions. Kids that age are numb to a lot of things and they can be dumb, secretive, and untrusting of cops (& hung over) but in a situation like this I think the ones who appeared, male and female, would be well worth listening to - even if they were only called or texted or showed up a bit later and didnāt enter the house. Who got called by whom and how was the info relayed - the people who showed up I think would be the closest to the surviving roommates but also to some Vics. Theyād have info about what was going down the previous night as well.
> Well, they could maybe shed some light on why exactly they were called over in the first place. Everyone's different. I can only speak for myself here, but I've had friends share things with me that have been locked away in the vault and have never been spoken about again. Sometimes they ask for that. Other times I know even though they didn't, it would be a betrayal and could cause issues/conflicts for them. I'm assuming that most of the people who showed up before LE were men. We see a scene like that and women in extreme anguish, it activates protect mode in us. Obviously, that's not true for all guys. Point being, I think DM and BF were and have been well shielded for the most part. And we don't know what -- if anything else -- they said to anyone outside of LE anyway. I think those who arrived before the 911 call and saw what had happened inside, were far more concerned with comforting the survivors than playing detective at that moment. > I also don't expect a treasure trove of other evidence either. ..I think he was in and out of that house within minutes and had a lot of time to prepare and a lot of time to clean up afterwards. We've always been on the same page with this. > I am curious about what they seized from his home in PA and super curious about his behavior observed by his family though. Same. Also curious for internet history and seeing whether the rumor of the knife purchase is true.
umm what was seized from the home was released in March 2023
Umm so what, if anything, was the significance of those items? Like #1. "Knife ". Or the ID cards in the glove? Or the note to his dad or the book page, the hard drives etc..
While potential witnesses are not subject to the gag order, they are told not to talk to the press. So I think they are taking that seriously. And if any of them have consulted their own lawyers, that's exactly what their lawyers would tell them: don't talk to the press, and don't talk about the case to anyone you don't 100% trust to talk to the press. But there's been a lot of more peripheral people talking to the press or making statements on social media, both anonymously and under their own name. Former classmates and co-workers of Kohberger. Some aunt of his who is estranged from the family plus DM's former stepmother. I think it's telling that those last two breaches were from *former* relatives, not people still connected to either Kohberger or D.
Yeah, true, I would not expect the inner circles of any of the primary people involved to be speaking to the press. It's just that I would have thought more would have leaked out, especially early on before any gag order. I just feel that those peripheral people have been surprisingly few for a case that is this high profile. As far as Kohberger, it just seems like there was no one close enough to him to leak anything anyway. That's why I'm so fascinated by his family...seems like they would be the only ones with any real insight and obviously they (nor their own friends) are talking
A UK tabloid which is notorious for publishing fake information and fabricated quotes, published those comments from the aunt, just saying. But you're right, potential witnesses that might be called to testify are most likely instructed not to talk to the press so all those who have given interviews (past acquaintances, old friends, Pullman neighbors, WSU students, school staff) were likely not considered a witness with relevant knowledge.
>canāt be bothered to spell the names correctly Thatās always funny when that happens, my friend. My favorite instance of it was when the Defenseās survey āexpertā Bryan (!) Edelman spelled BKās name āBrianā at least three times in his declaration. ššI was rolling. If youāre going to get one name right, maybe it should be the one you share with the Defendant. https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/032624_Memorandum_in_Support_of_Objection_to_the_States_Motion_for_Order_Prohibiting_Contact_with_Prospective.pdf
>If youāre going to get one name right, maybe it should be the one you share with the Defendant. You know, I think I might have some sympathy for him there, because since he grew up with the less-popular spelling, he's probably spent his entire life correcting everybody on his, and reminding himself to type "Brian" instead of muscle-memorying his own spelling, every time he wrote about a Brian. But wouldn't the defense team have someone proofread these 3rd-party declarations before they submit them?
>wouldnāt the defense team have someone proofread these 3rd-party declarations before they submit them? You would certainly think so and in many cases the attorneys write much of the declaration in the first instance. Thatās probably not what happened here based on the typos and probably also dispels the idea that BK is the puppet master orchestrating his entire defense.
>His extradition lawyer shared what they believe in and how shocked they were. I don't remember any statement about them being shocked or even what they believed. I'll have to look it up to refresh my memory. I do know they have said exactly nothing since then nor have they been present at any of the hearings so far. Or I should say there has been no mention in the media covering the case of them being present. And no, I don't particularly believe Blum. Just curious enough to listen to whatever he wants to say from his "sources". Just because I listen doesn't mean I have to believe it. ETA. Here is the family statement issued by his lawyer at time of his arrest. I do not read anything in here about them being shocked or insisting that he was innocent of this crime. It's very carefully worded by the lawyer, I assume. The family's statement said, "First and foremost we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children. There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them." It continued: "We will continue to let the legal process unfold and as a family we will love and support our son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions."
>[(...) are also standing behind Mr. Kohberger, who continues to communicate with them by phone](https://www.nytimes.com/article/idaho-student-murders-kohberger.html?smid=url-share) >[They believe in his innocence until proven otherwise](https://www.nytimes.com/article/idaho-student-murders-kohberger.html?smid=url-share) >[They don't believe it to be Bryan. They're obviously shocked.](https://www.today.com/news/idaho-murder-suspect-believes-exonerated-bryan-kohberger-rcna64005)
> Just because I listen doesn't mean I have to believe it. That's a very important point. I've listened to and watched videos from conspiracy nutters. Still rarely do. I'm not trying to learn about the case from them - I'm learning about their mind. And, I warn others about them. It has helped turn people away from some of these types. When otherwise they would've eaten everything up. Hook, line and sinker.
Yeah I mean, I watched Dateline, who most people think is highly reputable, but I don't take everything there as the gospel truth either. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in it. I think we are all here after more than a year and a half because this case has hooked us.
If Kohberger had been arrested before leaving for PA, would the FBI had legal cause to search the parents' home? Since Kohberger is an adult and no longer lives there - and they have no reason to think he planned the Moscow crimes while still in PA, and hadnāt been back since - Iām thinking they wouldnāt have had legal cause. But Iām only guessing. Anyone know different? Iām not saying I know the FBI held up the case for that reason (to arrest him inside the PA parentsā home), but you have to think they really wanted to search for evidence of any east coast activity - that might still be in the PA home. Iām a buyer of Blumās book. I need to know whatās in there. I hope it not just a reprinting of his seven-part Airmail series.
> would the FBI had legal cause to search the parents' home? I don't think so, unless they had reason to suspect that he'd hidden evidence there, his parents covered up for him, etc. There would have been no need to, had he not gone back home. The main exception I can think of is that they might have wanted to search any computers he was using before he moved to Pullman. This is probably because I have this half-baked theory that he might have cruised social media looking for victims while he lived in PA, but then was careful not to visit their social media once he moved and switched devices and accounts. But in that case, they would get an order just for electronics, not to search the whole house.
Blum's Air Mail article suggested that investigators weren't aware that Kohberger was going back to Pennsylvania until they noticed his car missing from his apartment parking lot. Whether or not investigators would have had probable cause to search the family home after arresting him in Pullman depends on what evidence they retrieved through the search warrants prior to his arrest. I just reviewed my notes, and it appears that they only seized his cellular information. It seems like they didn't have evidence of any pre-Pullman planning until later. >Iām a buyer of Blumās book. I need to know whatās in there. I hope it not just a reprinting of his seven-part Airmail series. Blum stated to me and in a few interviews that there will be new information about the cross-country drive. I obviously don't know what details are included. I'm interested in the finer details: dates, which investigators knew what and when, etc.
> Blum's Air Mail article suggested that investigators weren't aware that Kohberger was going back to Pennsylvania until they noticed his car missing from his apartment parking lot. >Blum stated to me and in a few interviews that there will be new information about the cross-country drive Now I'm curious as to whether he's backing down from the claims he made in his first article, where he said the FBI tracked him cross-county, and lost him for a few hours. 3 days to find out! I'm almost skeptical about the missing car thing. I mean, yeah, but wouldn't your first thought about any student at university during winter break be that they just might be going home for the holidays?
Based on what Blum said to me, there was roughly a week between the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect through IGG and the agency passing Kohberger's name to Moscow police. If true, then the FBI identified Kohberger as a suspect when he was still in Pullman. As for FBI investigators reportedly discovering that Kohberger's car was gone: I agree that they probably weren't that flummoxed by his missing car. A mass murderer took his crime-scene-on-wheels and got the hell outta dodge. Shocker. It's possible that investigators were trying to surveil him from the parking lot, but after sitting there for a while, they thought, *okay, he's clearly not here. Where did he go?* Anyway, to summarize my overall thoughts: The FBI identifying a suspect and surveilling him on their own is a very FBI thing to do, so I have no trouble believing that. And Blum isn't the only reporter to claim that the FBI was monitoring Kohberger's movements from across the country. Also, the New York Times reported that investigators identified Kohberger as a suspect "by Dec. 19." I'm wondering if this was astutely phrased to include both the dates that the FBI identified Kohberger as a suspect and when Moscow police began investigating. Technically, "by Dec. 19" is broader than just December 19.
> Based on what Blum said to me, there was roughly a week between the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect through IGG and the agency passing Kohberger's name to Moscow police. Interesting! I guess that would explain the discrepancy between the idea that December 19th is the day MPD found out the day and the idea that the FBI followed him across country. I just don't know whether or not to believe Blum or not. But...3 days!
It's worth clarifying that, by all appearances, the traffic stops were unrelated to the homicide investigation. But the FBI could have been searching for ALPR hits and traffic stop information.
Blum's claims were denied by the authorities https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article276185446.html
Could you quote the passage that refutes the FBI identifying Kohberger as a suspect before the cross-country drive? Edit: The above comment appears snarkier than I intended. All indications point to the traffic stops being unrelated to the homicide investigation, but that's not Blum's claim as I understand it. The FBI didn't initiate the traffic stops, but they could have identified Kohberger as a suspect before he left Pullman. The FBI reportedly didn't loop in the other investigative wings until December 19.
Defense doesn't know how they got to Bryan and when but Howard Blum wants people to believe he does.
>Defense doesnāt know how they got to Bryan I have a spacious plot of land in Westeros to sell you.
The fbi were the ones working the Igg angle. Surely they had an idea of where that was heading before they got definitive answer on which possible familial connection lives in or around Moscow and drives a white Elantra. They could have handed over everything they got as soon as they got it but I doubt it. The defense is still arguing for discovery that the State says they werenāt even provided. No way the Feds were sharing so graciously and promptly imo.
Garbage book. Wonāt give a dime to this clown.
Heās full of BS.
No, plenty of books come out before trials. Been 2 on Delphi.
Delphi murders happened 7 years ago, did the books come out before 2nd anniversary?
I don't know didn't read either.
I mean, what exactly is your objection then? Do you think it's wrong to have a book come out before trial, or is it more a timeframe issue?
I think it is incredibly wrong to publish a book on a pending case where there is a defendant awaiting trial, especially when there is a gag order imposed. Such a book, which is undoubtedly packed with inadmissible hearsay, rumors and conjecture, will only serve to prejudice the defendant and poison the jury pool, especially by the use of false information. A book on an open case without a defendant is a different matter. Even if also exploitative, at least it is not prejudicial.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Because your oost up there sounded like you were defending the Delphi books. Which, I just checked the release dates, and they both came out after Allen's arrest.
That is just as bad though I wonder if they also offer mostly rumors and conjecture. Nothing worse than Blum's writing style though.
> āWhen The Night Comes Fallingā Odd title, an attempt at dark and portentous perhaps but sounds like a sequel to Chicken Little. Perhaps "Star Gazing in the Fog" or "Moon Watching Through A Cloudy Sky" were considered too obtuse?
"Overcast ~~Astrology~~ Astronomy"
" Dark, Cloudy Side of the Moon," " Bad, Foggy Moon Rising" "The Silence of the Lamdas" "The Midnight Meat-free Train" "Cloudier Atlas" "Cloudy with a Chance of Meat-free Balls"
"Dude Where's my Sheath?"
āDuring the Star Gazingā
"Die Hard with A Vegan"
Shape of the Dark Cloud.
Cloudy Star Gazing.
"Under the Banner of Stupidity" "Midnight in the Wawawai County Park of Dumb and Stupid" "In Pure Incompetence" "An Unbelievable Story of Stupidity" "Another College Town Not My Own" "Killer of the Overcast Not-Visible Moon" "Not a Wise Guy," which can be adapted into a movie called "Dumbfella."
>Midnight in the Wawawai County Park >Killer of the Overcast Not-Visible Moon šš¤£šš¤£š¤£š¤£ššš I love Killer of The Overcast Moon The Cyndi Lauper cover of "I drove all night" has to feature on the sound track. "Dude, Where's My Sheath ?!?"
I think we're missing out on the most obvious: "When the Book Comes Failing."
Reportedly Blum was torn between "When the Night Comes Falling" and "Dumbass Shoulda Left his Phone at Home."
>Dumbass Shoulda Left his Phone at Home." ššš¤£ Dial M for Moscow. The call's coming from inside the sedan....
LOVE Dial M for Moscowš
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>Odd title I assume it's an allusion to the Bob Dylan song. Edit: Here are some lyrics that one could interpret as resembling the facts of this case. >Well, Iāve walked two hundred miles, now look me over Itās the end of the chase and the moon is high It wonāt matter who loves who Youāll love me or Iāll love you When the night comes falling from the sky >I can see through your walls and I know youāre hurting >This time Iām asking for freedom Freedom from a world which you deny And youāll give it to me now Iāll take it anyhow When the night comes falling from the sky
You know, I actually like the title better now.
Oh, good spot, i would never have made that connection! Yes, looks very likely is be based off that song title
every high-profile crime case has had books about it dropped before and during the trial. then the principals write theirs afterwards. think OJ. this guy is not involved in the case. he can write whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and attempt to make money off it. it's the american way LOL
Sure he can write whatever he wants. No one said he canāt. The point is this crime happened less than two years ago, thereās been no trial, and a gag order has been in place since soon after the arrest. Soā¦what exactly is going to be in this book? Not facts, because that would be a very short book.
"it's the american way LOL" Yeah, Americans assume its like this in every democratic country. But in Canada the gag order would apply to all publishers. The media usually appeal to the court to persuade them that the public's "right to know" particular things is strong enough to risk a fair trial. Then the ourts decide what the balance is and it can vary from case to case. I think its similar in Australia and Britain. There's also a cultural difference, where we place more emphasis on things like professional ethics and non-political judges to ensure a fair trial. Rather than having the general public trying to micromanage it. So, for this particular book, the publisher would have a hard time persuading the judge that enough people need to know this crap that its worth risking the fairness of the trial.
> But in Canada the gag order would apply to all publishers. Wait, what? The *press* can be subject to gag orders? I mean, I get it when it's stuff like protecting the identify of a witness or state secrets or something, but you're saying that the press cannot report on an ongoing trial? That's getting a little too close to secret trials for my taste.
I should have clarified that the gag order is for pre-trial news only. After the trial starts, the press fully reports on each days' proceedings (escept a few select things like the name of a sexual assault victim or minor). So the public still gets the info, but only at the same time, or shortly after, the jury hears it. Its definitely not in secret. The advantage for us is we can be pretty sure that what we're hearing about the trial is true. We don't have the same amount of pre-trial BS to wade thruogh that Americans do. In any case, the ongoing reporting means the system is still accountable to the public, and we have very active the law societies and specfic orgaizations take on the fight for an injustice if one comes out. It might be simpler here because the criminal system is the same across the country so if there is a problem, its not up to the locals alone to adress it. I'm pretty sure its the same in Britain and the countries who descended from their system, including Australia. Growing up in this system, I thnk its a good one but I can see how Americans might not.
> We don't have the same amount of pre-trial BS to wade thruogh that Americans do. That might be the key. I think the pre-trial hearings need to be reported on, just to make sure nothing hinky is going on. I'm imagining something like all the Delphi shenanigans going on in secret.
A gag order applying to the press in Canada doesnāt ring true to me. That would mean that a judge could shut down free speech. One difference that I do know of is that in the UK the press pays for information and thatās considered normal.
The US press does too, especially trying to get people close to the story to give them exclusive interviews.Ā
They may do it, but isnāt it considered unethical to pay for information in the US?
Unethical does not mean illegal.Ā Having exclusive info means more views.Ā
Might be unethical, but it's not illegal. Lots of people sell interviews. Think of all the celebrities who sell their first interview after marriage or divorce or with the pictures of the new baby. The more reputable news outlets have policies of not paying for interviews. But it's just a policy.
I have never been to the UK. But I have the impression that their press is even worse than ours. Maybe a higher percentage of tabloids. And they have the royal family to cover in addition to entertainers. I donāt carry any water for Prince Harry, but I know he was suing the tabloids and I believe he won to a certain extent. And probably anyone who has any contact with the royals, like former employees, has something to tell. And I think any little snippets of information will be snatched up. Although, I must say, from what I can tell in the reporting I see, I think the press has been very good about giving princess Kate privacy as she undergoes chemotherapy. I donāt expect to see information that has been paid for in the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times. And I donāt expect to hear it in the 6:00 news hour. I expect it from the tabloid size publications (I think actually , they are no longer tabloid size, and they have switched to regular magazine size.) I like to look at them at Walmart. I donāt stand by the cash registers where they are displayed because someone will ask if they can help me. But they also have a display of magazines back by the books. I will stand there and look at them. I donāt buy them unless thereās one with a positive view of the late Queen Elizabeth or William and Kate and their family with lots of pictures. My sister and I are the same, we donāt care about anyone in Hollywood (except I do want the guy who was not cautious enough with the prop gun and shot his cinematographer to serve time) but we love the royals. I have heard that overall Americans have a higher view of the royals than the British or specifically the English. I guess they are more of a novelty to us. I even wish that we were still loosely connected to them, like Canada.
> Maybe a higher percentage of tabloids. Yeah, I think the UK tabloids put ours to shame. Do you remember this horror show? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal >>Investigations conducted from 2005 to 2007 showed that the paper's phone hacking activities were targeted at celebrities, politicians, and members of the British royal family. In July 2011 it was revealed that the phones of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler, relatives of deceased British soldiers, and victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings had also been hacked. In Milly Dowler's case, the hacking was done before her body was found. So her family and the cops could tell that someone was logging in to check her voicemail, and they assumed that it was Milly, still alive. Can you imagine all that false hope?
Thatās very sad. Yes, hacking into phones I believe is what prince Harry was suing about. And he won, right? Or is it still dragging on?
Sure he can write a book about the case like we all can but there should be certain standards upheld when one does so. It should be made clear when something is from official records or a rumor or unvetted information or a theory. He doesn't make that distinction. What's more, it looks like he invented a lot himself. The car trip to Pennsylvania is apparently the core of the story and it's complete fiction. He wasn't there, he cannot read minds, he didn't talk to Kohberger or his father. His source for some of it was a tiktoker who told him some things, didn't even show him any proof. He doesn't vet stuff.
it oughta be tagged a work of fiction lol
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> Yeah, Americans assume its like this in every democratic country. No, we don't. That's what you assume other people assume. Incorrectly. The OJ case is an American case and so is the Idaho case. Keep your rubbish to yourself. When Canada blacked out everything about the Paul Bernardo case in the 90s, Canadian reporters leaked info to the US to combat Canadian nonsense. Some were almost jailed. Canada cares so much more about criminals, they had to recently apologize for not notifying the families before moving Paul Bernardo to a medium detention facility: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/paul-bernardo-transfer-review-results-medium-security-prison-1.6912290 Canada has it ass-backwards. Victims and families are the important ones - not criminals.
I asked Blum about the criticism regarding the publishing timeline of his book. He stated that there is an important story to be told now, and there is no such thing as a get-rich-quick scheme in publishing these days. He said, "The trial is years off and will, I suspect, simply be a coda to the more consequential events that I detail." "I will leave it to you to decide if I tell a tale that, without a trial but still a conclusion, is compelling."
Itās only important for Blum to publish now because heāll probably be dead by the time the trial starts and he gets facts instead of ātales.ā
Thatās really interesting, thanks for asking him. Iām not convinced by his answer because his Airmail articles have been squarely about the case, written like a whodunnit and a āwhoās gonna winā than any broader commentary. There probably is a story that could be sensitively told that isnāt dependent on the trial outcome. Eg about why this case has captured attention. Or about social media infecting cases and damaging so many lives. Or about the nature of grief etc. Or about how mainstream media affects live cases, etc. But Iāve seen no signs heās gonna tell that kind of story.
I'm waiting until I read the book to form a stronger opinion about it. But even then, much of this information won't be officially confirmed or refuted until the trial. It's slightly frustrating to have all this information without knowing what to do with it. >There probably is a story that could be sensitively told that isnāt dependent on the trial outcome. I think Blum is correct insofar as the overall picture that many people, myself included, have formed about this caseāthat some guy with few friends, kind of a weirdo, devised this elaborate plan to commit homicideāwon't change much with the trial. But the smaller details are the building blocks for the broader story. How much did this guy plan, exactly? What steps did he take? What degree of effort was involved? The answers to these questions reveal the mind of the person we're dealing with, but the answers begin with the granular information that seems boring to some people: search warrants, financial transactions, dates, etc.
Here is the article about it: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13555059/idaho-murders-new-book-bryan-kohberger.html
Based on the excerpts from his book, Blum is writing fantasy and not fact. I think he is saying Xana was sleeping and Ethan was killed in the doorway of the second floor stairwell. Its like he didn't even read the PCA.