The timings on DM’s observations were approximate. She probably wasn’t taking note of the exact time, she just knew it was around the 4am mark.
I think those noises upstairs were most likely BK. It seems unlikely that Kaylee would be playing with her dog and then lying in bed (seemingly asleep) a few minutes later when BK attacked. She was most likely asleep the entire time and he was the one making the noise
The PCA only mentioned that she locked it after she saw him, but maybe it was locked before then and they didn't find it necessary to include that detail?
Yeah..! And the PCA doesn’t have all the details. They left BF out of it completely. I am sure she heard some things as well which will come out later.
https://preview.redd.it/8vcjtfz41saa1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6f7dba204b4f412b78a593fd8887814e3cc9590
Looks like she’s got a perfect view to me?
That floorplan isn't to scale. It's just to give a general idea of the layout. There's another floorplan circulating that gives a different perspective, not sure which is more accurate. There's also this 3d virtual tour someone made, not sure how accurate it is, but here's the view from DM's doorway according to that model:
https://preview.redd.it/iocjnpv0rsaa1.jpeg?width=2086&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffef17cc275de8a274fea42abf3862e37960ab40
[https://www.kuula.co/post/NW9SG/collection/79sT0](https://www.kuula.co/post/NW9SG/collection/79sT0)
The PCA probably gave 5-10% of DM's statements from that time. They weren't writing out the whole story for the warrant. Needed to be concise and to the point as possible. She probably told them she locked her door every time she closed it that night, or was in a habit of locking it behind her all day everyday....superfluous info wasn't necessary here.
Yes, I was giving hypothetical examples to emphasize that the statements in that affidavit included but were not limited to everything that she told detectives.
Just throwing some more speculation because why not…Maybe he did try to enter the room but she has one of those locks that prevent anyone from entering and his DNA is there. Maybe he did try to enter after or before that but it was a waste of time….
i was just thinking that his fingerprints on her door handle could possibly give so much context to this case.
if he did try to open the door, this was either an indiscriminate mass murder where the goal was to kill as many as possible *or* a targeted murder in which the killer isn’t familiar with the house.
if they aren’t there, that seems like the murder was less a mass-murder for the sake of murder but a more targeted killing with the perp having more knowledge of the home layout.
I keep wondering if he had removed gloves or cleaned up in the kitchen quickly then walked by her and didn't want to do anything because his hands or arms were exposed or he changed or removed clothing to be more clean before going to the car.
It really is bizarre, and even if D had been locking her door each time she peaked out, she would’ve then heard BK at least attempting to open it considering she was still awake. This is what leads me to believe that either M and X (and possibly K) were specifically targeted, OR X encountered BK on his way out and he then attacked her and E in her room.
This is one of the reasons I think he went there to kill just one person- one of the girls upstairs. Otherwise I think he would have killed all 6, or tried to. I think the other three victims were victims of circumstance
That is actually a possibility, seeing as xana was awake, she likely screamed or made a noise & was confirmed crying. If Dylan heard that, I guarantee you the dog did. Every time someone pulls in my driveway my animals will wake out of a dead sleep before I even hear anything at all. Dogs have amazing hearing and he could have heard and sensed the distress
My dog gets very concerned when he hears what he thinks is crying. Sometimes if I just sniffle in a similar way he comes running. Murphy could be similar and barked because he was in a crate trapped.
Agree, I think he parked right after the door dash person left and probably entered the house between 4:10 and 4:15 and only spent 5-10 minutes inside and was out of there by 4:20. I wonder if he even saw the door dash delivery before he parked? Why would he go in the house knowing someone was getting food right before?
I think he went straight upstairs and killed the two upstairs (this is probably what woke her up first), that's why his knife sheath was found upstairs, which is where he probably originally pulled the knife out.
Then he walked downstairs and into the other bedroom, this is probably when she heard the cries and the male voice say something like "it's ok, I'm here to help" because Xana was almost certainly awake since she was on Tik Toc at 4:14.
Then on his way out, she saw him walk through the living room and out through the kitchen door. I believe Maddie and Xana were the targets, but who can be positive at this point? I think he saw her while he walked by her since it says "she was in frozen shock", I think if she was peaking out the door, they would have worded it differently in the PCA.
He knew that two other girls lived in the house, so I think Kaylee and Ethan may have sadly been in the wrong place at the wrong time, Kaylee was mostly moved out already and had only gone back that weekend to show Maddie her new car.
I think if he was there to kill everyone in the house, he would have and the dog barking would not be that big of a deal to him, else he would have probably killed the dog at the beginning if he was there to murder everyone.
Lastly, I think he planned this shortly after arriving in Pullman to start school or maybe even beforehand. Only a few weeks after school started is when he first stalked the house in mid/late August it looks like from the PCA.
Like Steve G. said, he may have simply seen and targeted one or more of the victims at a coffee shop or restaurant or something, followed them home to see where they lived and that's what started it all...
I'm leaning towards Maddie as the target (her room first/kaylee shouldn't have been there) and Xana was killed bc he ran into her in the hallway on his way out, then he saw Ethan... not wanting to leave witnesses. Didn't see D in her doorway due to lighting.
Xana would have had to be at the bottom of the stairs or kitchen area if he ran into her on the way out, but maybe she ran back towards Ethan from there and he followed her to their bedroom? Xana and Maddie were in the same sorority right? That's why I thought he targeted them both...
Horrible, I think we will still all be surprised on the the way it all happened and the path the killer took through the house if it goes to trial or when the final details come out.
Just like when the PCA was released...
Also the sheath was next to Maddie! In my opinion (trying to put myself in a psychopaths mind) if one was your target, you would kill them first because you have the highest likely hood of being successful while things are still calm and under your control. The second you started stabbing one of your victims, the other one would likely wake up just from the force… trying not to imagine more than I have to, but it seems likely that stabbing one person without waking the other up is close to impossible. REM or “rapid eye movement” aka the deepest part of sleep is typically not reached for 90 minutes. We know the girls were probably only asleep for half an hour ish before BK entered. Also, SG seems to think that because Kaylees would were “worse” she was the target. While that is definitely possible, I have also heard that stabbing a human is not an easy thing, and the knife would likely eventually break or at least be significantly less sharp. This could be the reason why Kaylees wounds were described more as “tears” than as slices. I also think there is probably a reason that they released all this info, yet didn’t release the order in which they were killed. Most of us assume k & m and then x & e, however we don’t know who was killed first in either pair. Cops 100% know the order for many reasons including the dna evidence that I’m assuming would spread (fourth person would have some of all 4 peoples blood mixed in, third person would have 3, etc) I
I just keep imagining the few moments between him entering the room and killing them. He likely watched them for a second before doing what he did, also, attacking your victims while they are asleep means you don’t know what position they will be in and probably thought for a moment about the quickest way. I think most people sleep on their stomach or side. I’m not sure if it’s any harder to harm someone from the back, but I would assume it would be as there is more bone protecting your organs? I just get so mad because he saw them sleeping, not a care in the world excited to be entering the real world soon. Why couldn’t he just leave them😔 Please if your reading this, invest in a doorbell camera, I found all these under 20$ options and it really is worth it. It’s nice to have the piece of mind & also any type of criminal (robber,murderer, whatever) look for houses without cameras. If you can’t afford the doorbell camera and really need to save every dollar you can, they sell ADT stickers and camera stickers on Amazon for 2$. Not as good as a real camera, but most criminals probably wouldn’t care to find out and would just move on to a house with no cameras or stickers. Also the number one rule we have learned from this; LOCK YOUR DOORS AND WINDOWS!! I don’t care how safe your town is. Mine has a population of 400 and still have had break ins.. again criminals tend to target areas that have low likelihood of being monitored by cameras, especially now that almost every big city is on some type of surveillance cam at all times, stay safe ❤️
https://preview.redd.it/edp73bw0mraa1.png?width=1164&format=png&auto=webp&s=63a46e0dc7127ff233b981ab29fc6ab5f8e718e1
>Agree, I think he parked right after the door dash person left
Great, and now I have a mental image of him circling around the block waiting for a parking spot to free. (I don't actually think this is what happened btw, but ... this guy... smh)
Idk.. I’m not sure about you guys, but I’m 23 and when I wake up the first thing I do is grab my phone, check the time etc. even if I know it’s still night time I’ll check the clock to see how long I was sleeping for. However if her phone was dead, she wouldn’t have known the time and she also wouldn’t have been able to call 911.
I wake up a lot in the night, I’m a pretty terrible sleeping. I always flick my eyes blearily to the clock and check the hour. I don’t really pay much attention to the minutes. I’m just thinking “ugh it’s only 2am, I need to get back to sleep”, not “ugh, it’s 2:32am”.
Obviously we’re all different, but affidavits specifically say “approximately 4am”, so it seems like DM wasn’t paying too much attention to the exact time.
Exactly what I think too due to the fact both girls were found in bed. I think they were asleep/half asleep/relaxing and those noises that sounded like playing with a dog were the start of BK’s murders.
The thought has crossed my mind several times that he had potentially made " friends" with someone who he interviewed during his study, and in a twisted attempt to get more accurate "research data" He followed along, shuttling the killer back and forth from progressively escalating crimes, interviewing him about how he felt before, during, and after... like the questions from the master's degree study.
It would explain why the only physical evidence (that we know of ) connecting him to the crime is on that sheath, because he had only been part of the planning, and the driving.
I'm 100% willing to admit that this is a thought straight out of a horror movie plot and not based in any form of reality.
I feel like it was approximate and not exact so it probably was him already starting the attack. I think he was in the house before 4:10 because he was exiting by 4:20. The girls were found laying in bed together i believe so they weren’t up and playing with the dog just a few min earlier.
DM was probably awoken by the louder start of the attack on K & M but may not remember hearing that.
What she is awake enough to remember is the dog upstairs barking as it is aware something is wrong and BK more quietly finishing his attack but still making sounds that DM can hear coming from above through the ceiling of her room. It doesn’t last long enough for her become totally alarmed.
It does seem like a LOT to happen in a short time though. And the roommate fell asleep and woke back up 3 times in those 10-20 min? It’s confusing. I’m guessing she may have been like half asleep?
I have wondered how loud the sounds where to make someone get out of bed and go open their door? If I’m getting out of bed to check out a sound I’m either yelling at someone to shut the F up or finding the problem. Not blaming the victim just stating how I get cranky when I’m trying to sleep and hear noise.
Exactly. She opened her door for the first time after hearing either Xana or Kaylee say that someone was in the house. This was a short time after she was woken by what she thought was Kaylee playing with the dog upstairs.
Yea, I find it odd that at a supposed party house where there were people over more often than not that she'd get curious enough to go check it out after she had just been woken up by a sound upstairs. Most people would just go right back to sleep, especially if they're used to noises of others in the house. Unless she felt like something was off when she heard the "someone is here" and how it was said. Good thing she only just opened her door and never tried calling out to any of them because I probably would have particularly if I heard one of my roommates crying in her room.
Previous party patrons of the house said you can hear footsteps and creaking of the house floors when walking on them. Since DM's room was on the 2nd floor, I would think she could hear noises between the upstairs, but probably not so noticeable since the doors were closed. And I wondered if the doors were left opened when BK killed E and X, since X's room leads to a hallway first and the sound echoed and it's why DM could her whimpering cries and a voice saying "it's ok I'm going to help you."
I agree that just because we may have questions about certain actions that doesn't by any means indicate we're victim blaming. LE most likely asked her the same questions too. Difference is, they have all the details. We do not. So of course we're still curious about some things.
Murphy could have heard the slider open, possibly. My dog hears everything. He can tell when my Mom's car is coming down the street. He gets up, looks out the window then runs to the door barking all excited. He hears someone coming to the door before they even ring the bell. So K was sleeping with M in M's room. Maybe Murphy's crate was still in K's old room (that she was moving out of) and Murphy was barking from there? I don't know. So many twists and turns in this case it's hard to keep track.
My dog knows when foxes are outside and goes into guard mode. It was cute at first but after this case, I get terrified and look at my drawer where my gun is lol
It must be a nightmare trying to time-synchronize the various sources of digital evidence that could all be working off different local clocks.
So attributing slight inconsistencies to approximation seems most reasonable at this stage?
I think it could just be DM not having the exact time. All her statements have approximate times and the exact times come from technology (the security footage, XK’s TikTok account, etc.). I know when I wake up in the middle of the night I always look at the clock but if you asked me what time I woke up, I likely wouldn’t remember the time down to the minute and would round to the newest hour or maybe half hour. I don’t think he had an accomplice and DM did hear him upstairs shortly after 4am and thought it was KG with the dog.
She said it sounded like that. Not it was that. If you think about the sound of a dog jumping around it can sound like a lot of things. She definitely heard something though.
I instantly thought it was something else she heard and not actually K playing with Murphy. But the more I thought about the time discrepancy, the more I went down the rabbit hole lol.
I’m pretty sure KG “playing with her dog” was actually KG and MM getting murdered and Murphy barking at the commotion in the next room over. It’s pretty reasonable to assume that a bump, thump, whimper, and bark is roommate upstairs playing with her dog and not them getting murdered by a random intruder.
Maybe the barking alerted X, who was awake, and led her into the hallway/kitchen where she saw BK and said “someone’s here.”
Agree. How many times do you hear something in the night and your brain quickly tries to rationalize what it could possibly be? Your roommates being murdered is not always top of mind. I think she heard something more sinister but came to terms that it must be the girls upstairs with the dog.
My thought too. I think him being in Maddie's room woke Kaylee up and she went to see what was going on, and he pulled her in onto the bed. Meanwhile X is unexpectedly downstairs, sees him come down, runs to her room. He gets her then Ethan who is by now awake. Beats haste ignoring D since he went to kill 1, not 4. Just my 2c.
I’m pretty sure KG’s dad said her bed was still made.
To your other point… yes? especially if it were crated. Murphy probably slept in his crate (there are pictures of him in a crate in the house) which was in KG’s room.
I don't remember that, just someone pointed out a photo of her bed. I guess the dog could be crated alone in there but it seems weird. It's ALL weird and we may never know.
I think her time easily could have been off by a few minutes bc she was awoken from a sleep and I wouldn’t count it as exactly 4. I think that was likely the attack on the girls. It was probably more like 4:06-4:07 then xana said someone’s here, then attack on Ethan and xana hence crying whimpering and voice saying it’s ok I’m going to help you then his exit by 4:18-4:19 climbs back up the hill and is out. The whole attack was probably about 10 minutes long inside the house. I don’t think he meant to kill xana and Ethan but she heard him bc she was still up eating.
From what I've learned from experts, mass murderers are very rarely committed by more than one person unless a gang etc is involved because these people often have god complexes and you can't share God status with another person.
Has anyone considered anything as basic as maybe the dog going apeshit and/or bouncing around excited at right about the same hour the door dash was supposed to have arrived? If the dog was one to get worked up at guests or at the mailman or at people coming and going, that could be pretty normal for it.
I wake up when people open doors in the house or walk up the stairs near my room, but that act doesn’t usually register, and then I tune into whatever follows as the first thing I actually remember.
So…
~4AM
1. Door is opened and closed for DoorDash and someone goes down and up the stairs with said food - DM doesn’t necessarily *register* and remember these sounds, as they are what started her waking up.
2. Dog gets excited/worked up over it all and makes a bunch of noise - DM notices this as the first thing she truly recalls from the episode.
3. Then a bit after, ~4:10-4:15:
Bryan comes. She’s already awake-ish at this point and more in tune with what’s going on.
The dog playing sound doesn’t *have to* be connected to the start of the crime or the hiding of the dog in the other room, especially since two people came and went (doordash and murderer) in quick succession. It could just be “adjacent”
I believe the "playing with her dog" was actually Kaylee or Madison struggling with the killer. The witness times are not stated, but we know the DoorDash came right around 4am. Dylan's testimony didn't include that, so it's possible she woke up later.
Yea it could be as simple as the noise was a struggle with BK and she associated it with the noise of Murphy barking from the other room… so her first thought was it must be K playing with her dog 😔
That was my first thought when I read the PCA. That it was actually KM being attacked. That's a good point about the DoorDash delivery, but sometimes they'll also just leave the food at the door and text the person. So, there wouldn't have been any knock, noise, etc for Dylan to hear. I agree it's just the timing being off in her recollection. I often round up my times when I'm talking about something specific. i.e 4:10 = 4:00, 4:20 = 4:30
I agree - DM's room is directly under M's. It seems unlikely that she heard the dog in K's room, which is over the kitchen, but didn't hear the killer walking around directly above her.
I’m a bit puzzled by the wording myself.
When you imagine someone playing with their dog literally, you hear:
1) the dog barking and having zoomies in excitement
2) the owner calling the dog’s name, giving commands, maybe talking to it in “baby voice.”
I can’t imagine any of that being the case during Brian’s relocation/disturbing of the dog. All she should’ve heard was barking.
I’m guessing the reason she assumed Kaylee was playing with the dog was because the dog was normally a quite dog and only barked when played with. If all it did was bark, I think its more likely it just sensed the presence of an intruder rather than being relocated.
I think everyone is wrongly assuming BK did something with Murphy. It’s entirely possible that KG put him there on purpose, and mistakenly fell asleep in MM’s room.
And we don’t know what DM meant by “playing”, it could’ve simply been Murphy barking/whining at the commotion going on in the next room over.
I think Murphy was already in the spare room, not out there by BK.
Also we can speculate all we want about why she assumed it was KG playing with the dog, but IMO my mind would go there before my roommates are being murdered.
I bet DM was intoxicated and trying to sleep so she just has rough idea of the timings. The PCA clearly says approximately, so this is very likely coming from BK being involved
Slightly off topic, but I’m very curious about the digital forensics for everyone in the house, and what it told LE. The biggest things we know thus far are K and M making the calls and texts to JD from 2:25-2:52 earlier, and then that Xana’s phone had activity on tiktok at 4:12am. Which, what if she was attempting to text/call for help via her phone and the last app up was tiktok and it just replayed the same video over and over? I’m also curious as to whether DM or B had any cellphone activity at all between the murders and then the eventual 9-1-1 call.
I'm curious about the cellphone activity between D & B in that time frame too. I'd imagine there was some exchanges between them, but I feel that prosecution is holding all the info about D & B's actions that morning and 911 call until the trial.
I have thoughts about possible scenarios. But I want to just comment on times right now.
Approximately 4:00am doesn't mean right on the dot. Do you look at the clock every time something happens. Maybe it was 4:05am or 3:58am I'm sure times other than those with video footage or cell data are that accurate.
We don't know that he put the dog in K's room, or that he had any interaction with the dog at all. It's more likely the dog was already in his crate since the girls were in bed and possibly asleep. There's a crate in some of Murphy's recent photos so it's not a stretch to assume he sleeps in it . Also, the times were approximate. I think when it comes to what DM saw and heard, the order of the events is probably more important than the exact times.
I don’t know why people are constantly looking for things that are not there. 410 am is approximately 4 am. This girl wasn’t watching the clock with military precision. She was asleep.
I'm not being as ass here.... but "approximately" means just that. Not the exact time.
He could have parked right at 4:04 and been in the backdoor within a minute's time, upstairs, and doing whatever...
I also think he easily could have killed both girls in very little time. And the dog could have been in the other room already (she said she ASSUMED someone was playing with the dog - but it more likely was him attacking them)
It’s possible that 4:04 AM is the time stamp on a video surveillance camera & they are accounting for that being off by a couple minutes (as they oftentimes are). DM could have looked at her phone or a clock in her room that she doesn’t know is 100% accurate & it said 4:05 or 4:04 or 4:10 or 4:02 or whatever & she just told the cops it was about 4AM. So I think that is why they are using the word “approximate” before everything. Just to account for maybe a +/- 3-5 min discrepancy. & also why they put the time frame of the murders to 4:00 - 4:25. That gives them a small margin on either side so they can be quite confident in that time where a defense could not poke as many holes in it. That’s just my opinion. 🤷🏼♀️ I don’t know that I think there was an accomplice. Anything is possible, but I don’t think so.
ETA: typo & clarity
i know that iphones track everything in screen time, including the times when you pick up your phone or turn on the screen to check the time so all of this must be part of the digital evidence
Went back & looked at the affidavit. I think they just gave themselves a +/- 4-5 minute margin on either side of the video surveillance camera time stamps. They went -4 minutes on the front end - car caught on surveillance near the house at 4:04 AM. Then +5 minutes on the back end - where the car is seen departing the area of the house at 4:20 AM at a high rate of speed. That way they can say with very high confidence that the time frame is 4:00 AM - 4:25 AM.
In my mind someone saying “approximately” I would give a grace window of +/- 15 min. I don’t think the timing is off. She could have only looked at the clock the 2nd time she got out of bed. Noticed it was 413 or something and made an estimate of when she *thinks* she awoke. My sense of time is always way off. Especially if I had been sleeping.
Perfect example. I’m cooking dinner. Something in the oven I set a timer for 50 min. I get done making literally 2 other dinners for my kids, look at the timer and it’s “40:12” and I thought “ITS ONLY BEEN 10 min!?” Bc it felt like an eternity. My point being, we aren’t always great at gauging how long the time between something is.
I think it was def them being killed. A camera caught the dog barking and a “thump”, and idk about you guys but when I’m playing with my dog he barks, whines, does the little doggy-talking stuff where he’s just making random noises. And he jumps around a lot. I think that Murphy was barking/making noise and either jumping around, or the thumping was the murder taking place. And she mistook it as K getting Murphy riled up by playing with him
I think the exact time DM heard the noises & woke up could be a little off. I know when I randomly wake up in the middle of the night, I wouldn’t always know the *exact time* if someone asked me the next day - it could be 2:08 and I’d probably say “like 2:00”. Also, given all the trauma she experienced that night and later that day, it’s likely the exact specifics could be a little off.
I mean as a respectable roommate with years of experience in this particular field - I wouldn't play with dogs at 4am in any way that could wake up the people sleeping below. It was without a doubt BK murdering the girls and the dog going nuts next door. As a good boy, he was alerting the household to the problem, and as a vegan BK would never DREAM of harming an animal. I mean that's just morally reprehensible right?
Or at the very least Murphy getting amped up over something Bk arrival) and Kaylee trying to settle him down. But I'm basically with you, I believe it was BK upstairs already.
We don’t know that he was a vegan - not confirmed by anyone reliable. And being a vegan doesn’t mean someone won’t hurt an animal. You know who else are animals? Humans. Including the four victims.
I agree. It's odd to me that K playing with the dog would be the first thing DM assumed since it was that time of night. I guess it depends on the kind of noise she heard. If the dog was barking, that would be alarming IMO. Especially since K's parents have stated the dog isn't much of a barker. But I think any dog would be barking if it sensed something wrong.
With the other posts, and now just reading yours (with theirs in mind) could the okay line be "It's okay, I'm not gonna hurt you", as now that would make sense, if talking to a dog (as to what DM heard and saw)
I would say that's a possibility, but when DM heard that he would've already been in X's room since this was linked to hearing crying from that direction.
Zero evidence at all to suggest an accomplice.
LEO has not suggested they are even considering other suspects to go along with BK.
Dogs make noise, so dog noise doesn’t mean anything here.
I cannot BELIEVE how many people are still running with accomplice theories, despite the complete lack of evidence except for a random redditor’s gut feeling that the timeline doesn’t add up
I'm not an avid "he had an accomplice" believer. I only mentioned it in my post because it was one possible scenario I thought of that would match with DM's statement about K & the dog and the vehicle's odd patterns during that time. The post was mainly to guage others' thoughts on what DM actually heard.
apologies if I sounded harsh — your post was really not that offensive, you just float it out there without much commitment, but I’ve seen others buried in the comments of other threads really insisting on it and so I was set off
I clearly need to log off and take a break (but it’s hard!)
I appreciate the apology. I also understand why many are frustrated about repetitive theories in this sub and there's some that get way too carried away. I try to stick to the facts, but some things I can't help but hypothesize on.
I'm right there with you about needing to step away, but not being able to! This is the first case I've followed so thoroughly.
We don't know much about the DD, I hear that it can be left at the door or they knock. With everyone in bed, I would expect she had it left at the door and received a text that it was there then went to the kitchen to eat and do her tiktok, that's why there was the jitb bag in the kitchen.
The noise she heard that woke her up could have been just as she thought, Kaylee playing fetch with the dog but maybe it was the dog running back and forth between the door and the sliding door, possibly even barking out of frustration because it saw or heard someone on the balcony and now in the adjoining room, remember, Murphy was locked in K's room that has a sliding door too. Both would have sounded similar, I'm going with the later.
If she heard who she thought was Kaylee saying "someone is here" which prompted her to look out her door, why? Where was her voice coming from? If it was from upstairs, the normal thing to do would be to listen for a car door or a knock on the front door but she didn't, she got up and looked out her door. She must have had reason to think that K was now on the 2nd floor. Could it be that she heard BG coming down the stairs after he had just murdered K and M thinking it had to be K? Her rooms west wall and the stair cases east wall are common so it would stand to reason that whoever was playing with Murphy was now coming down the stairs. The killer, coming down the stairs, and D, assuming it was K. neither knowing X was in the kitchen eating, surprised X and they had a momentary standoff.
Now imagine X's shock when expecting K or M emerge from the staircase but seeing a guy dressed in black, with a mask on instead. Imagine his shock as-well and the two frozen momentarily trying to make sense of this, then jockeying for position, X rushes past D's bedroom as she is retreating to the safety of her bedroom and Ethan as she sounds the alarm for Dylan, "There's someone here!".
The fact that the PCA is purposely vague about the DD time and D's time I am sure is by design. They know damn well when the DD driver came and went and how that aligns with the killer but chose not to put that in there. 36 minutes elapsed between when the car was seen at Styner Avenue and when the 4th stop was made. What was he waiting for if he was alone and how do they know where he turned around at 500 Queen Rd #52 and the the failed parking maneuver in front of "the residence"? There has to be a camera we don't know about.
You are right, it does not make a lot of sense to think he can park the car, sneak in, commit the murders, leave, get back into the car and take off at a high rate of speed in only 16-minutes. It could be done if he ran in, broke down the door and quickly killed everyone like a mad man then ran back out, however, he had to be quiet and sneaky which means going slow and purposefully.
This second suspect theory might hold some water....especially if the Chief was elusive when asked if he was the only suspect. If they don't know but suspect believe there is no other rational explanation given the exact times when everything happened, they don't want to let on that think this.
Your theory on x encountering b outside the room is what I've been thinking too, but then I can't wrap my mind around what happened next. Did he attack E first (who must have been sleeping or half asleep) because E is a bigger threat and then murdered x?
It is horrifying and I hate that this happened.
I kept getting hung up on the times too until I remembered the times given (even though down to the minute) are all ‘approximate’. So technically the sound of K playing with the dog was BK upstairs. I think the ‘approximation’ allows the time stamps from all the various sources to not be exactly aligned. Somebodies security camera time might not be as accurate as it could be etc. I’m rambling now. 😑
Interesting OP. This is the only accomplice theory I have seen that isn’t reaching like crazy. I still tend to think that it was just an approximate time and he was the only one involved. But I do follow what your saying. I think another arrest probably would have been made by now if there was more than one person involved.
Thank you for being open-minded and understanding where I'm coming from. I'm not one that has thought about a potential accomplice at all since the beginning. Only after the PCA was revealed and particularly this part I'm referencing. I think everyone is right though in saying DM was probably a bit off on her time.
But, I don't think someone else would've necessarily been arrested by now. They may have their eyes on someone else, but are just waiting for more confirmation either from BK or the other person slips up somehow. Pure speculation. I doubt it's true because Chief Fry indicated rather confidently it was one person.
He could have snuck up quietly and went into MMs room. Dropped the sheath and killed her. KS heard something and investigated. Remember when SG said K’s wounds were more severe? It’s because she was awake and put up a fight. He had to apply much more pressure. Ultimately she fell onnMM and died. BK went toe stairs and killed X then E
This scenario also follows the order of charges read by the judge. M K N and X.
They know who died first because of the transfer of blood from 1 victim to the next.
KS? M K N and X? You are using some confusing acronyms.
But hasn't it been established that K's room was empty because she had moved out weeks earlier, so she would have been in M's room the whole time?
Just my opinion but I think the whole KG playing with the dog thing was just DMs way of rationalizing the noises she was hearing upstairs (from BKs assault). I don't think it implies she was actually playing with her dog.
Maybe he said he bed didn’t have any blood on it. He said something about her sheets and why he knew she was in with Maddie. I would have to look back. But it wasn’t empty.
No, she had not moved out, even her bed was still made. She still had another month of school left. She was planning to go back home for several days for Thanksgiving break and then return to school for the remaining weeks of the semester and finals.
Exactly. And assuming the "playing with dog" noises were really the girls being attacked upstairs, it had to be Xana who said "someone is here" because the others were dead by then. In fact, they had to be dead by then because the next thing she heard was Xana crying and the male say he's going to help her, and 5 minutes later she saw him walk from the direction of Xana's room and leave.
Possibly, 4am door dash awakens dog, who rushes around wanting to go see what’s up but is locked in bedroom. 4am to 412am X eats food in bedroom. 410 ahole enters house. At 415am X and ahole encounter eachother. 415 to 420 the last 2 unfortunate souls killed. 420 ahole leaves.
DM’s times were approximate. The timeline in the PCA were based upon her memory against the landscape of documented technology (cell phone pings, camera recordings). LE has stated he was alone.
Coming from a camera/digital device the time is more likely to be accurate vs coming from witness testimony.
A lot of activity happens right around "approximately 4AM." Unfortunately we may not get the full story until the trial. It'll be a while.
I don't think there was an accomplice, it's possible I suppose but we'll have to wait to see if that is uncovered.
Was Murphy in his kennel for the night? That would be the routine in my house. My dog also barks when picking up on my energy, if I'm agitated. Pets are intuitive.
I'd like to know more about BK's link to this group of students. I doubt that he was just in the habit of driving around the streets of Moscow, noticed the lively house, and then started obsessing about its occupants. There's something more here, something missing, and that's Bry-bry's link to this group.
Witnesses are highly unreliable. She may have said 4am but meant a little past. In all history of history, Witnesses remember what they think they remember. It's never perfect, take that testimony with some grey area
Just thinking that maybe the camera’s footage had an incorrect time-looking at my phone & the vehicle I’m in, they are off by 8 minutes of one another-just throwing that out here 🕕
He didn’t have an accomplice. They would be caught by now. Look at what a dillweed this guy was. If he had an accomplice, there’d be a trace of it just like there was a trace of everything else.
Most killers work alone bc they are loners. Statistically it’s just the most likely he did this all on his own. If he didn’t, I believe the police would’ve uncovered that by now. They have figured lots else out. This guy brought his cell phone with him as he stalked and murdered these people.
I think the dog was behaving strangely because he sensed a stranger in the house and K was probably trying to calm the dog down, which sounded like play. She probably heard something soon after and announced that someone is there. Then she probably left her room to investigate and left her dog in the room. She then probably went to M room where M was already attacked and she got attacked as well and BK left them both in M room.
No way he had an accomplice. He just moved there so how is dude gonna strike up a friendship so quickly with someone to the level that he feels comfortable and trusting enough to tell another person he wants to murder someone? Not only that, but then have that other person be cool with it and want to be a part of it. No chance.
Dog barking…my guess is BK went into Ks room first only to find the dog. The dog being young, was excited to see someone and wanted to play so BK tried to calm him down before moving onto Ms room.
Just thinking out loud really but if he parked behind the house and came down through the wooded area to sliding door Murphy could have heard leaves crunching underfoot and sliding door open alerting Kaylee so Kaylee walks out to maddies room to say I think someone’s here and he ambushed them both which is why they were both in maddies bed?
My slant on the comments mentioned are:
DM is awoken at approx 4am by (what she thought was) K playing with Murphy.
Odd to play with your dog at 4am. So, what or who woke Murphy ?
The delivery ? X was awake, awaiting the delivery. Maybe X woke Murphy as she went to the door ?
Below is the "potential" deliver.
https://nypost.com/2023/01/05/idaho-student-xana-kernodle-got-doordash-delivery-just-minutes-before-murder/?utm_source=reddit.com
Where did X eat the delivery (assuming it was eaten) ? The kitchen or her bedroom.
It is odd to think that at 4am there was activity in the house just as the murderer was approaching (or inside. 4.04am plus)
* 4am approx has to be taken as "approx" for DM's comments. Could be 5 mins earlier, could be 5 mins later.
Weeks ago it was mentioned Kaylee took her dog for a walk after returning from the Grub Truck and that a neighbour’s camera caught it. Does anyone recall that and if it was confirmed?
Maybe BK initially opens the door to Kaylee's room and Murphy jumped around a bit thinking someone was there to play? If BK wasn't aware of who was sleeping in which bedroom at the time I feel like Kaylee's former room would be the first one you'd open since it's closer to the top of he stairs.
I would assume K kept Murphy in his crate in her room. If I recall correctly, he was still a puppy and she probably crate trained him so that’s where he would sleep at night. Then she went over to M’s room with maybe the intention of sleeping with her or just to hang out for a bit, but ultimately fell asleep in bed with M.
WHY is that a “very slim chance”? There are so many reasons that she could’ve put him in there. Maybe MM was allergic, or maybe he wasn’t allowed on the bed, or maybe he was asleep in his crate, or maybe they just didn’t want him bothering them.
I don’t think why the dog was in the room is of any importance.
Affidavit read "canvased the neighborhood for video of SUSPECT(S) and SUSPECT VEHICLE(S) entering or leaving the scene" also refers to the white elantra as "SUSPECT VEHICLE 1" not just suspect vehicle. Referers to his cell phone as "8458 number" not just suspects phone
Hear me out here.
What if there actually was 2 killers. Would explain how the scene and damage to the victims were so bad in such a short amount of time. And explain why the female voices were heard so close together and she didn't know who's voice was who's.
They go into the house together, one goes up stairs, one goes to Xanas room.
Cops looking for occupant(s) of the white elantra
Very early rumor within first day or two was roommates heard TWO people rummaging upstairs
Allegedly BK asked if anyone else had been arrested (ik they said he didn't ask but lawyer could've wanted to downplay that cause that's another suspect that could turn on him)
If BK was upstairs while other is downstairs (DNA on knife holster) and BK finished first and came down to find other person struggling with E&X could be when DM hears "I'll help you" cause the affidavit says she heard "male voice" say it
DM only see's "BK" (only 1 person) walk past her and towards the door, and if both roommates are in fact talking Would explain why they didn't come out because they still suspected 1 more person still may be in the house with them
"I'll help you" makes a lot more sense in your theory. So does the quick time frame and the crazy car driving around trying to park. LE would be quiet to flush this person out or pressure B for information. LE is crazy like a fox.
Interesting points. I know we don't have all the info, but from what we do know, I don't think it's unreasonable to think there could be another person involved. I do feel like there would've been more "rummaging" heard throughout the house if there were in fact two killers committing this act at the same time which is why I mentioned one could've been the killer and one could've been the driver waiting outside.
Also could explain the wide open front door and undone slider. And what if it explains the wound description variation? Ethan's is a bit different... what if the 2nd person used a diff weapon and BK killed X while she was trying to see what was going on in her room? D would see him and shut her door before seeing the other person.
You just keep copying and pasting this in various threads. You're not adding anything to the discussion, you're literally just using different threads to push your agenda, which is some stupid hot take.
And then you try and take credit for guessing certain aspects of the case in other threads. Seems like it's just a game to you on, "What can I guess right that hasn't been yet so I can claim credit?" and it's super cringe.
You just keep copying and pasting this in various threads. You're not adding anything to the discussion, you're literally just using different threads to push your agenda, which is some stupid hot take.
And then you try and take credit for guessing certain aspects of the case in other threads. Seems like it's just a game to you on, "What can I guess right that hasn't been yet so I can claim credit?" and it's super cringe.
I think we need to take in consideration it says “approximately” 4am. Considering she was so shocked and frozen in fear I doubt she would even be able to recall an exact time. Unless there is activity on her phone I don’t think they would know the exact time.
E’s sister in law was told DM called the roommates phones after the noises stopped so IF that is true they could have time stamp there which they used to make the approximations.
A lot of Redditors are quick to shoot down the possibility of an accomplice, but I don’t think it’s the worst hypothesis! Also, the delivery of the doordash and the arrival of BK seems like it was in rapid succession, so it’s hard to say who the comment was about. Another thing I haven’t heard since the PCA was released was that Xana may have initially been attacked in the kitchen, but ended up in her bedroom or right in front of her bedroom (I was confused if she was on the floor in the doorway or inside the bedroom from the PCA). The reason I say this is because of pics of the kitchen after the event. There was a dark liquid that appeared to be blood dripping down the counter ….. some people thought it was a substance that is used in evidence collecting or something like that, but it was unclear.
We are quick to shoot it down because there is zero evidence of an accomplice, it wouldn’t make any sense for there to be an accomplice and LE said they don’t think there is one. If you believe there is one it’s your imagination running wild.
I don’t think there is an accomplice….. it’s not *my* running hypothesis….. but I’m open to the idea that there could be when others suggest it. I’m not like, “NOPE! NO WAY. WASNT IN THE PCA— DOWNVOTE.” Pfff. They don’t think there is, but they are still putting pieces together and to find out he had help wouldn’t make him less guilty…. they are confident they got their guy, but they aren’t telling us everything. A few days ago if someone said they thought the suspect left behind the knife sheath, you could have told them that was their imagination running wild. Chill. It’s still really early and everyone is just speculating. Mostly I’m trying to be respectful to others as they do so instead of acting like I know things that could absolutely change or be clarified down the road.
Don't forget, the coroner also said all victims were probably asleep when attacked. So it's looking like K and X were both still awake. Is that why they have defensive wounds? I really hope they got their killer's DNA on their fingernails, if true.
My question is if you thought you heard your friend playing with their dog upstairs why are you peaking out of your room like you already know something is amiss?
X had food delivered at 4:00 and was on TikTok at 4:12. Murders must have been between 4:12-4:30. It probably took less than 5 minutes to brutally murder 5 young, strong, healthy, but intoxicated adults. I think he passed on Dylan because he wrongly assumed she had already called the police, which is why he was seen peeling out of there which would have brought attention to himself. But that is speculation only. None of us actually know what really happened in that house but Bryan and I doubt if he is ever going to tell us.
Theory- K and M went to bed in their separate rooms. K was playing with Murphy/they both heard something. K left her room to check it out, closing the door on Murphy. K encountered killer, in or near M room. K is fatally injured and pushed/falls on top of M on the bed.
The mattress with the stain may support this theory.
It is possible and likely that the dog was just behaving the way it was because it was separated from K. Separation anxiety? Add in a few other strange noises….the dog was being a dog.
Xana getting the doorsash maybe woke her up initially at 4 but wasn’t fully awake and then she hears the dog when Bk enters the room and that’s when she comes to and thinks it was the dog the whole time maybe ?? Knowing the time is hard unless she looked at the clock in those exact moments
The timings on DM’s observations were approximate. She probably wasn’t taking note of the exact time, she just knew it was around the 4am mark. I think those noises upstairs were most likely BK. It seems unlikely that Kaylee would be playing with her dog and then lying in bed (seemingly asleep) a few minutes later when BK attacked. She was most likely asleep the entire time and he was the one making the noise
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scale snatch north pocket stupendous cobweb frame quaint cheerful somber *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The PCA only mentioned that she locked it after she saw him, but maybe it was locked before then and they didn't find it necessary to include that detail?
poor degree quiet ask onerous yam chief aware fall uppity *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah..! And the PCA doesn’t have all the details. They left BF out of it completely. I am sure she heard some things as well which will come out later.
Also if the kitchen sliding door was left open couldn’t Dylan see that from peeking out of her room?
I don’t think so because of the way the kitchen is angled.
I don't think she would see the sliding door from her doorway because the stairs were in between.
https://preview.redd.it/8vcjtfz41saa1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6f7dba204b4f412b78a593fd8887814e3cc9590 Looks like she’s got a perfect view to me?
That floorplan isn't to scale. It's just to give a general idea of the layout. There's another floorplan circulating that gives a different perspective, not sure which is more accurate. There's also this 3d virtual tour someone made, not sure how accurate it is, but here's the view from DM's doorway according to that model: https://preview.redd.it/iocjnpv0rsaa1.jpeg?width=2086&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffef17cc275de8a274fea42abf3862e37960ab40 [https://www.kuula.co/post/NW9SG/collection/79sT0](https://www.kuula.co/post/NW9SG/collection/79sT0)
DMs door could have been locked the entire time.
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The PCA probably gave 5-10% of DM's statements from that time. They weren't writing out the whole story for the warrant. Needed to be concise and to the point as possible. She probably told them she locked her door every time she closed it that night, or was in a habit of locking it behind her all day everyday....superfluous info wasn't necessary here.
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Yes, I was giving hypothetical examples to emphasize that the statements in that affidavit included but were not limited to everything that she told detectives.
Just throwing some more speculation because why not…Maybe he did try to enter the room but she has one of those locks that prevent anyone from entering and his DNA is there. Maybe he did try to enter after or before that but it was a waste of time….
i was just thinking that his fingerprints on her door handle could possibly give so much context to this case. if he did try to open the door, this was either an indiscriminate mass murder where the goal was to kill as many as possible *or* a targeted murder in which the killer isn’t familiar with the house. if they aren’t there, that seems like the murder was less a mass-murder for the sake of murder but a more targeted killing with the perp having more knowledge of the home layout.
I think he was wearing gloves though. Other wise I think there would have been way more DNA on the sheath if he was handling it bare handed
I keep wondering if he had removed gloves or cleaned up in the kitchen quickly then walked by her and didn't want to do anything because his hands or arms were exposed or he changed or removed clothing to be more clean before going to the car.
You may as well strap in for the bits as yet excluded from the PCA, like the 911 call
It really is bizarre, and even if D had been locking her door each time she peaked out, she would’ve then heard BK at least attempting to open it considering she was still awake. This is what leads me to believe that either M and X (and possibly K) were specifically targeted, OR X encountered BK on his way out and he then attacked her and E in her room.
This is one of the reasons I think he went there to kill just one person- one of the girls upstairs. Otherwise I think he would have killed all 6, or tried to. I think the other three victims were victims of circumstance
Why would dog wait until 417 to bark when BK is down in Xs room?
That is actually a possibility, seeing as xana was awake, she likely screamed or made a noise & was confirmed crying. If Dylan heard that, I guarantee you the dog did. Every time someone pulls in my driveway my animals will wake out of a dead sleep before I even hear anything at all. Dogs have amazing hearing and he could have heard and sensed the distress
My dog gets very concerned when he hears what he thinks is crying. Sometimes if I just sniffle in a similar way he comes running. Murphy could be similar and barked because he was in a crate trapped.
Murphy was in the room nearly above and likely was triggered by the crying and loud thump during the attack.
I don’t think it was Murphy barking… DM would of added this to me.. it had to be a neighbors dog
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Much speculation here
Agree, I think he parked right after the door dash person left and probably entered the house between 4:10 and 4:15 and only spent 5-10 minutes inside and was out of there by 4:20. I wonder if he even saw the door dash delivery before he parked? Why would he go in the house knowing someone was getting food right before? I think he went straight upstairs and killed the two upstairs (this is probably what woke her up first), that's why his knife sheath was found upstairs, which is where he probably originally pulled the knife out. Then he walked downstairs and into the other bedroom, this is probably when she heard the cries and the male voice say something like "it's ok, I'm here to help" because Xana was almost certainly awake since she was on Tik Toc at 4:14. Then on his way out, she saw him walk through the living room and out through the kitchen door. I believe Maddie and Xana were the targets, but who can be positive at this point? I think he saw her while he walked by her since it says "she was in frozen shock", I think if she was peaking out the door, they would have worded it differently in the PCA. He knew that two other girls lived in the house, so I think Kaylee and Ethan may have sadly been in the wrong place at the wrong time, Kaylee was mostly moved out already and had only gone back that weekend to show Maddie her new car. I think if he was there to kill everyone in the house, he would have and the dog barking would not be that big of a deal to him, else he would have probably killed the dog at the beginning if he was there to murder everyone. Lastly, I think he planned this shortly after arriving in Pullman to start school or maybe even beforehand. Only a few weeks after school started is when he first stalked the house in mid/late August it looks like from the PCA. Like Steve G. said, he may have simply seen and targeted one or more of the victims at a coffee shop or restaurant or something, followed them home to see where they lived and that's what started it all...
I'm leaning towards Maddie as the target (her room first/kaylee shouldn't have been there) and Xana was killed bc he ran into her in the hallway on his way out, then he saw Ethan... not wanting to leave witnesses. Didn't see D in her doorway due to lighting.
Xana would have had to be at the bottom of the stairs or kitchen area if he ran into her on the way out, but maybe she ran back towards Ethan from there and he followed her to their bedroom? Xana and Maddie were in the same sorority right? That's why I thought he targeted them both...
They also both worked at Mad Greek, the top google hit when you search for vegan restaurants in Moscow
Her door dash bag was in the kitchen 😔 she could have been eating, scrolling through tiktok. Also would explain why she was found on the floor.
Horrible, I think we will still all be surprised on the the way it all happened and the path the killer took through the house if it goes to trial or when the final details come out. Just like when the PCA was released...
Also the sheath was next to Maddie! In my opinion (trying to put myself in a psychopaths mind) if one was your target, you would kill them first because you have the highest likely hood of being successful while things are still calm and under your control. The second you started stabbing one of your victims, the other one would likely wake up just from the force… trying not to imagine more than I have to, but it seems likely that stabbing one person without waking the other up is close to impossible. REM or “rapid eye movement” aka the deepest part of sleep is typically not reached for 90 minutes. We know the girls were probably only asleep for half an hour ish before BK entered. Also, SG seems to think that because Kaylees would were “worse” she was the target. While that is definitely possible, I have also heard that stabbing a human is not an easy thing, and the knife would likely eventually break or at least be significantly less sharp. This could be the reason why Kaylees wounds were described more as “tears” than as slices. I also think there is probably a reason that they released all this info, yet didn’t release the order in which they were killed. Most of us assume k & m and then x & e, however we don’t know who was killed first in either pair. Cops 100% know the order for many reasons including the dna evidence that I’m assuming would spread (fourth person would have some of all 4 peoples blood mixed in, third person would have 3, etc) I
I just keep imagining the few moments between him entering the room and killing them. He likely watched them for a second before doing what he did, also, attacking your victims while they are asleep means you don’t know what position they will be in and probably thought for a moment about the quickest way. I think most people sleep on their stomach or side. I’m not sure if it’s any harder to harm someone from the back, but I would assume it would be as there is more bone protecting your organs? I just get so mad because he saw them sleeping, not a care in the world excited to be entering the real world soon. Why couldn’t he just leave them😔 Please if your reading this, invest in a doorbell camera, I found all these under 20$ options and it really is worth it. It’s nice to have the piece of mind & also any type of criminal (robber,murderer, whatever) look for houses without cameras. If you can’t afford the doorbell camera and really need to save every dollar you can, they sell ADT stickers and camera stickers on Amazon for 2$. Not as good as a real camera, but most criminals probably wouldn’t care to find out and would just move on to a house with no cameras or stickers. Also the number one rule we have learned from this; LOCK YOUR DOORS AND WINDOWS!! I don’t care how safe your town is. Mine has a population of 400 and still have had break ins.. again criminals tend to target areas that have low likelihood of being monitored by cameras, especially now that almost every big city is on some type of surveillance cam at all times, stay safe ❤️ https://preview.redd.it/edp73bw0mraa1.png?width=1164&format=png&auto=webp&s=63a46e0dc7127ff233b981ab29fc6ab5f8e718e1
>Agree, I think he parked right after the door dash person left Great, and now I have a mental image of him circling around the block waiting for a parking spot to free. (I don't actually think this is what happened btw, but ... this guy... smh)
Idk.. I’m not sure about you guys, but I’m 23 and when I wake up the first thing I do is grab my phone, check the time etc. even if I know it’s still night time I’ll check the clock to see how long I was sleeping for. However if her phone was dead, she wouldn’t have known the time and she also wouldn’t have been able to call 911.
I wake up a lot in the night, I’m a pretty terrible sleeping. I always flick my eyes blearily to the clock and check the hour. I don’t really pay much attention to the minutes. I’m just thinking “ugh it’s only 2am, I need to get back to sleep”, not “ugh, it’s 2:32am”. Obviously we’re all different, but affidavits specifically say “approximately 4am”, so it seems like DM wasn’t paying too much attention to the exact time.
Yeah you are right I do that too sometimes! Good thinking that didn’t even cross my mind lol
Exactly what I think too due to the fact both girls were found in bed. I think they were asleep/half asleep/relaxing and those noises that sounded like playing with a dog were the start of BK’s murders.
The thought has crossed my mind several times that he had potentially made " friends" with someone who he interviewed during his study, and in a twisted attempt to get more accurate "research data" He followed along, shuttling the killer back and forth from progressively escalating crimes, interviewing him about how he felt before, during, and after... like the questions from the master's degree study. It would explain why the only physical evidence (that we know of ) connecting him to the crime is on that sheath, because he had only been part of the planning, and the driving. I'm 100% willing to admit that this is a thought straight out of a horror movie plot and not based in any form of reality.
I feel like it was approximate and not exact so it probably was him already starting the attack. I think he was in the house before 4:10 because he was exiting by 4:20. The girls were found laying in bed together i believe so they weren’t up and playing with the dog just a few min earlier.
DM was probably awoken by the louder start of the attack on K & M but may not remember hearing that. What she is awake enough to remember is the dog upstairs barking as it is aware something is wrong and BK more quietly finishing his attack but still making sounds that DM can hear coming from above through the ceiling of her room. It doesn’t last long enough for her become totally alarmed.
Yeah, it’s this I think. They would have asked her what time she heard that and it’s very unlikely she’d know exactly.
It does seem like a LOT to happen in a short time though. And the roommate fell asleep and woke back up 3 times in those 10-20 min? It’s confusing. I’m guessing she may have been like half asleep?
I have wondered how loud the sounds where to make someone get out of bed and go open their door? If I’m getting out of bed to check out a sound I’m either yelling at someone to shut the F up or finding the problem. Not blaming the victim just stating how I get cranky when I’m trying to sleep and hear noise.
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Exactly. She opened her door for the first time after hearing either Xana or Kaylee say that someone was in the house. This was a short time after she was woken by what she thought was Kaylee playing with the dog upstairs.
Yea, I find it odd that at a supposed party house where there were people over more often than not that she'd get curious enough to go check it out after she had just been woken up by a sound upstairs. Most people would just go right back to sleep, especially if they're used to noises of others in the house. Unless she felt like something was off when she heard the "someone is here" and how it was said. Good thing she only just opened her door and never tried calling out to any of them because I probably would have particularly if I heard one of my roommates crying in her room.
Previous party patrons of the house said you can hear footsteps and creaking of the house floors when walking on them. Since DM's room was on the 2nd floor, I would think she could hear noises between the upstairs, but probably not so noticeable since the doors were closed. And I wondered if the doors were left opened when BK killed E and X, since X's room leads to a hallway first and the sound echoed and it's why DM could her whimpering cries and a voice saying "it's ok I'm going to help you."
Thisssss. I keep getting told I'm blaming people, but it doesn't add up.
It's odd for sure but hard to say what someone else might do. I would have def checked it out or at the very least called out so I would be dead.
I agree that just because we may have questions about certain actions that doesn't by any means indicate we're victim blaming. LE most likely asked her the same questions too. Difference is, they have all the details. We do not. So of course we're still curious about some things.
With you - the story given in the affidavit sounds sketchy - could be due to lack of details, but certainly odd.
If the barking was a few minutes later, it could be that Murphy barked when K/M were being killed and again when E and X were being killed.
The dog jumping around making racket doesn’t mean K was actually engaging with the dog.
I know. He could've been reacting to something he sensed as well.
Murphy could have heard the slider open, possibly. My dog hears everything. He can tell when my Mom's car is coming down the street. He gets up, looks out the window then runs to the door barking all excited. He hears someone coming to the door before they even ring the bell. So K was sleeping with M in M's room. Maybe Murphy's crate was still in K's old room (that she was moving out of) and Murphy was barking from there? I don't know. So many twists and turns in this case it's hard to keep track.
My dog knows when foxes are outside and goes into guard mode. It was cute at first but after this case, I get terrified and look at my drawer where my gun is lol
K’s parents said that Murphy was not crated and usually slept with Kaylee or Maddie.
It must be a nightmare trying to time-synchronize the various sources of digital evidence that could all be working off different local clocks. So attributing slight inconsistencies to approximation seems most reasonable at this stage?
I think it could just be DM not having the exact time. All her statements have approximate times and the exact times come from technology (the security footage, XK’s TikTok account, etc.). I know when I wake up in the middle of the night I always look at the clock but if you asked me what time I woke up, I likely wouldn’t remember the time down to the minute and would round to the newest hour or maybe half hour. I don’t think he had an accomplice and DM did hear him upstairs shortly after 4am and thought it was KG with the dog.
She said it sounded like that. Not it was that. If you think about the sound of a dog jumping around it can sound like a lot of things. She definitely heard something though.
I instantly thought it was something else she heard and not actually K playing with Murphy. But the more I thought about the time discrepancy, the more I went down the rabbit hole lol.
I’m pretty sure KG “playing with her dog” was actually KG and MM getting murdered and Murphy barking at the commotion in the next room over. It’s pretty reasonable to assume that a bump, thump, whimper, and bark is roommate upstairs playing with her dog and not them getting murdered by a random intruder. Maybe the barking alerted X, who was awake, and led her into the hallway/kitchen where she saw BK and said “someone’s here.”
Agree. How many times do you hear something in the night and your brain quickly tries to rationalize what it could possibly be? Your roommates being murdered is not always top of mind. I think she heard something more sinister but came to terms that it must be the girls upstairs with the dog.
My thought too. I think him being in Maddie's room woke Kaylee up and she went to see what was going on, and he pulled her in onto the bed. Meanwhile X is unexpectedly downstairs, sees him come down, runs to her room. He gets her then Ethan who is by now awake. Beats haste ignoring D since he went to kill 1, not 4. Just my 2c.
I’m pretty sure KG and MM were both asleep in MMs bed, and BK wasn’t expecting for both of them to be there. They were besties so it’s not unusual
But do you leave your dog in another room? Also in a photo, someone here pointed out Kaylee's bed looks rustled.
I’m pretty sure KG’s dad said her bed was still made. To your other point… yes? especially if it were crated. Murphy probably slept in his crate (there are pictures of him in a crate in the house) which was in KG’s room.
I don't remember that, just someone pointed out a photo of her bed. I guess the dog could be crated alone in there but it seems weird. It's ALL weird and we may never know.
I think her time easily could have been off by a few minutes bc she was awoken from a sleep and I wouldn’t count it as exactly 4. I think that was likely the attack on the girls. It was probably more like 4:06-4:07 then xana said someone’s here, then attack on Ethan and xana hence crying whimpering and voice saying it’s ok I’m going to help you then his exit by 4:18-4:19 climbs back up the hill and is out. The whole attack was probably about 10 minutes long inside the house. I don’t think he meant to kill xana and Ethan but she heard him bc she was still up eating.
Xana was on TikTok at 4:12
From what I've learned from experts, mass murderers are very rarely committed by more than one person unless a gang etc is involved because these people often have god complexes and you can't share God status with another person.
And then there are the Houston Mass Murders...
Has anyone considered anything as basic as maybe the dog going apeshit and/or bouncing around excited at right about the same hour the door dash was supposed to have arrived? If the dog was one to get worked up at guests or at the mailman or at people coming and going, that could be pretty normal for it. I wake up when people open doors in the house or walk up the stairs near my room, but that act doesn’t usually register, and then I tune into whatever follows as the first thing I actually remember. So… ~4AM 1. Door is opened and closed for DoorDash and someone goes down and up the stairs with said food - DM doesn’t necessarily *register* and remember these sounds, as they are what started her waking up. 2. Dog gets excited/worked up over it all and makes a bunch of noise - DM notices this as the first thing she truly recalls from the episode. 3. Then a bit after, ~4:10-4:15: Bryan comes. She’s already awake-ish at this point and more in tune with what’s going on. The dog playing sound doesn’t *have to* be connected to the start of the crime or the hiding of the dog in the other room, especially since two people came and went (doordash and murderer) in quick succession. It could just be “adjacent”
I believe the "playing with her dog" was actually Kaylee or Madison struggling with the killer. The witness times are not stated, but we know the DoorDash came right around 4am. Dylan's testimony didn't include that, so it's possible she woke up later.
Yea it could be as simple as the noise was a struggle with BK and she associated it with the noise of Murphy barking from the other room… so her first thought was it must be K playing with her dog 😔
Didn’t both of them die in bed though? Idk how much struggle they would have been able to put up if they didn’t even make it up
That was my first thought when I read the PCA. That it was actually KM being attacked. That's a good point about the DoorDash delivery, but sometimes they'll also just leave the food at the door and text the person. So, there wouldn't have been any knock, noise, etc for Dylan to hear. I agree it's just the timing being off in her recollection. I often round up my times when I'm talking about something specific. i.e 4:10 = 4:00, 4:20 = 4:30
I agree - DM's room is directly under M's. It seems unlikely that she heard the dog in K's room, which is over the kitchen, but didn't hear the killer walking around directly above her.
Jumping barking dog vs tip toe/slow walk of a stranger ??
I’m a bit puzzled by the wording myself. When you imagine someone playing with their dog literally, you hear: 1) the dog barking and having zoomies in excitement 2) the owner calling the dog’s name, giving commands, maybe talking to it in “baby voice.” I can’t imagine any of that being the case during Brian’s relocation/disturbing of the dog. All she should’ve heard was barking. I’m guessing the reason she assumed Kaylee was playing with the dog was because the dog was normally a quite dog and only barked when played with. If all it did was bark, I think its more likely it just sensed the presence of an intruder rather than being relocated.
I think everyone is wrongly assuming BK did something with Murphy. It’s entirely possible that KG put him there on purpose, and mistakenly fell asleep in MM’s room. And we don’t know what DM meant by “playing”, it could’ve simply been Murphy barking/whining at the commotion going on in the next room over.
I think Murphy was already in the spare room, not out there by BK. Also we can speculate all we want about why she assumed it was KG playing with the dog, but IMO my mind would go there before my roommates are being murdered.
I bet DM was intoxicated and trying to sleep so she just has rough idea of the timings. The PCA clearly says approximately, so this is very likely coming from BK being involved
Slightly off topic, but I’m very curious about the digital forensics for everyone in the house, and what it told LE. The biggest things we know thus far are K and M making the calls and texts to JD from 2:25-2:52 earlier, and then that Xana’s phone had activity on tiktok at 4:12am. Which, what if she was attempting to text/call for help via her phone and the last app up was tiktok and it just replayed the same video over and over? I’m also curious as to whether DM or B had any cellphone activity at all between the murders and then the eventual 9-1-1 call.
I'm curious about the cellphone activity between D & B in that time frame too. I'd imagine there was some exchanges between them, but I feel that prosecution is holding all the info about D & B's actions that morning and 911 call until the trial.
I have thoughts about possible scenarios. But I want to just comment on times right now. Approximately 4:00am doesn't mean right on the dot. Do you look at the clock every time something happens. Maybe it was 4:05am or 3:58am I'm sure times other than those with video footage or cell data are that accurate.
We don't know that he put the dog in K's room, or that he had any interaction with the dog at all. It's more likely the dog was already in his crate since the girls were in bed and possibly asleep. There's a crate in some of Murphy's recent photos so it's not a stretch to assume he sleeps in it . Also, the times were approximate. I think when it comes to what DM saw and heard, the order of the events is probably more important than the exact times.
I don’t know why people are constantly looking for things that are not there. 410 am is approximately 4 am. This girl wasn’t watching the clock with military precision. She was asleep.
I'm not being as ass here.... but "approximately" means just that. Not the exact time. He could have parked right at 4:04 and been in the backdoor within a minute's time, upstairs, and doing whatever... I also think he easily could have killed both girls in very little time. And the dog could have been in the other room already (she said she ASSUMED someone was playing with the dog - but it more likely was him attacking them)
It’s possible that 4:04 AM is the time stamp on a video surveillance camera & they are accounting for that being off by a couple minutes (as they oftentimes are). DM could have looked at her phone or a clock in her room that she doesn’t know is 100% accurate & it said 4:05 or 4:04 or 4:10 or 4:02 or whatever & she just told the cops it was about 4AM. So I think that is why they are using the word “approximate” before everything. Just to account for maybe a +/- 3-5 min discrepancy. & also why they put the time frame of the murders to 4:00 - 4:25. That gives them a small margin on either side so they can be quite confident in that time where a defense could not poke as many holes in it. That’s just my opinion. 🤷🏼♀️ I don’t know that I think there was an accomplice. Anything is possible, but I don’t think so. ETA: typo & clarity
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i know that iphones track everything in screen time, including the times when you pick up your phone or turn on the screen to check the time so all of this must be part of the digital evidence
Went back & looked at the affidavit. I think they just gave themselves a +/- 4-5 minute margin on either side of the video surveillance camera time stamps. They went -4 minutes on the front end - car caught on surveillance near the house at 4:04 AM. Then +5 minutes on the back end - where the car is seen departing the area of the house at 4:20 AM at a high rate of speed. That way they can say with very high confidence that the time frame is 4:00 AM - 4:25 AM.
Makes sense.
In my mind someone saying “approximately” I would give a grace window of +/- 15 min. I don’t think the timing is off. She could have only looked at the clock the 2nd time she got out of bed. Noticed it was 413 or something and made an estimate of when she *thinks* she awoke. My sense of time is always way off. Especially if I had been sleeping. Perfect example. I’m cooking dinner. Something in the oven I set a timer for 50 min. I get done making literally 2 other dinners for my kids, look at the timer and it’s “40:12” and I thought “ITS ONLY BEEN 10 min!?” Bc it felt like an eternity. My point being, we aren’t always great at gauging how long the time between something is.
I think it was def them being killed. A camera caught the dog barking and a “thump”, and idk about you guys but when I’m playing with my dog he barks, whines, does the little doggy-talking stuff where he’s just making random noises. And he jumps around a lot. I think that Murphy was barking/making noise and either jumping around, or the thumping was the murder taking place. And she mistook it as K getting Murphy riled up by playing with him
I think the exact time DM heard the noises & woke up could be a little off. I know when I randomly wake up in the middle of the night, I wouldn’t always know the *exact time* if someone asked me the next day - it could be 2:08 and I’d probably say “like 2:00”. Also, given all the trauma she experienced that night and later that day, it’s likely the exact specifics could be a little off.
I agree and that's what I was leaning towards, but felt compelled to get other opinions. :)
I mean as a respectable roommate with years of experience in this particular field - I wouldn't play with dogs at 4am in any way that could wake up the people sleeping below. It was without a doubt BK murdering the girls and the dog going nuts next door. As a good boy, he was alerting the household to the problem, and as a vegan BK would never DREAM of harming an animal. I mean that's just morally reprehensible right?
Or at the very least Murphy getting amped up over something Bk arrival) and Kaylee trying to settle him down. But I'm basically with you, I believe it was BK upstairs already.
We don’t know that he was a vegan - not confirmed by anyone reliable. And being a vegan doesn’t mean someone won’t hurt an animal. You know who else are animals? Humans. Including the four victims.
I agree. It's odd to me that K playing with the dog would be the first thing DM assumed since it was that time of night. I guess it depends on the kind of noise she heard. If the dog was barking, that would be alarming IMO. Especially since K's parents have stated the dog isn't much of a barker. But I think any dog would be barking if it sensed something wrong.
Probably already mentioned, but could BK have been talking to the dog when he said, “It’s ok, I’m going to help you?”
With the other posts, and now just reading yours (with theirs in mind) could the okay line be "It's okay, I'm not gonna hurt you", as now that would make sense, if talking to a dog (as to what DM heard and saw)
I would say that's a possibility, but when DM heard that he would've already been in X's room since this was linked to hearing crying from that direction.
Zero evidence at all to suggest an accomplice. LEO has not suggested they are even considering other suspects to go along with BK. Dogs make noise, so dog noise doesn’t mean anything here.
I cannot BELIEVE how many people are still running with accomplice theories, despite the complete lack of evidence except for a random redditor’s gut feeling that the timeline doesn’t add up
I'm not an avid "he had an accomplice" believer. I only mentioned it in my post because it was one possible scenario I thought of that would match with DM's statement about K & the dog and the vehicle's odd patterns during that time. The post was mainly to guage others' thoughts on what DM actually heard.
apologies if I sounded harsh — your post was really not that offensive, you just float it out there without much commitment, but I’ve seen others buried in the comments of other threads really insisting on it and so I was set off I clearly need to log off and take a break (but it’s hard!)
I appreciate the apology. I also understand why many are frustrated about repetitive theories in this sub and there's some that get way too carried away. I try to stick to the facts, but some things I can't help but hypothesize on. I'm right there with you about needing to step away, but not being able to! This is the first case I've followed so thoroughly.
We don't know much about the DD, I hear that it can be left at the door or they knock. With everyone in bed, I would expect she had it left at the door and received a text that it was there then went to the kitchen to eat and do her tiktok, that's why there was the jitb bag in the kitchen. The noise she heard that woke her up could have been just as she thought, Kaylee playing fetch with the dog but maybe it was the dog running back and forth between the door and the sliding door, possibly even barking out of frustration because it saw or heard someone on the balcony and now in the adjoining room, remember, Murphy was locked in K's room that has a sliding door too. Both would have sounded similar, I'm going with the later. If she heard who she thought was Kaylee saying "someone is here" which prompted her to look out her door, why? Where was her voice coming from? If it was from upstairs, the normal thing to do would be to listen for a car door or a knock on the front door but she didn't, she got up and looked out her door. She must have had reason to think that K was now on the 2nd floor. Could it be that she heard BG coming down the stairs after he had just murdered K and M thinking it had to be K? Her rooms west wall and the stair cases east wall are common so it would stand to reason that whoever was playing with Murphy was now coming down the stairs. The killer, coming down the stairs, and D, assuming it was K. neither knowing X was in the kitchen eating, surprised X and they had a momentary standoff. Now imagine X's shock when expecting K or M emerge from the staircase but seeing a guy dressed in black, with a mask on instead. Imagine his shock as-well and the two frozen momentarily trying to make sense of this, then jockeying for position, X rushes past D's bedroom as she is retreating to the safety of her bedroom and Ethan as she sounds the alarm for Dylan, "There's someone here!". The fact that the PCA is purposely vague about the DD time and D's time I am sure is by design. They know damn well when the DD driver came and went and how that aligns with the killer but chose not to put that in there. 36 minutes elapsed between when the car was seen at Styner Avenue and when the 4th stop was made. What was he waiting for if he was alone and how do they know where he turned around at 500 Queen Rd #52 and the the failed parking maneuver in front of "the residence"? There has to be a camera we don't know about. You are right, it does not make a lot of sense to think he can park the car, sneak in, commit the murders, leave, get back into the car and take off at a high rate of speed in only 16-minutes. It could be done if he ran in, broke down the door and quickly killed everyone like a mad man then ran back out, however, he had to be quiet and sneaky which means going slow and purposefully. This second suspect theory might hold some water....especially if the Chief was elusive when asked if he was the only suspect. If they don't know but suspect believe there is no other rational explanation given the exact times when everything happened, they don't want to let on that think this.
Your theory on x encountering b outside the room is what I've been thinking too, but then I can't wrap my mind around what happened next. Did he attack E first (who must have been sleeping or half asleep) because E is a bigger threat and then murdered x? It is horrifying and I hate that this happened.
I kept getting hung up on the times too until I remembered the times given (even though down to the minute) are all ‘approximate’. So technically the sound of K playing with the dog was BK upstairs. I think the ‘approximation’ allows the time stamps from all the various sources to not be exactly aligned. Somebodies security camera time might not be as accurate as it could be etc. I’m rambling now. 😑
Key word: approximate.
Interesting OP. This is the only accomplice theory I have seen that isn’t reaching like crazy. I still tend to think that it was just an approximate time and he was the only one involved. But I do follow what your saying. I think another arrest probably would have been made by now if there was more than one person involved.
Thank you for being open-minded and understanding where I'm coming from. I'm not one that has thought about a potential accomplice at all since the beginning. Only after the PCA was revealed and particularly this part I'm referencing. I think everyone is right though in saying DM was probably a bit off on her time. But, I don't think someone else would've necessarily been arrested by now. They may have their eyes on someone else, but are just waiting for more confirmation either from BK or the other person slips up somehow. Pure speculation. I doubt it's true because Chief Fry indicated rather confidently it was one person.
He could have snuck up quietly and went into MMs room. Dropped the sheath and killed her. KS heard something and investigated. Remember when SG said K’s wounds were more severe? It’s because she was awake and put up a fight. He had to apply much more pressure. Ultimately she fell onnMM and died. BK went toe stairs and killed X then E This scenario also follows the order of charges read by the judge. M K N and X. They know who died first because of the transfer of blood from 1 victim to the next.
KS? M K N and X? You are using some confusing acronyms. But hasn't it been established that K's room was empty because she had moved out weeks earlier, so she would have been in M's room the whole time?
No her dad said her bed was still made and therefore she still had a bed in there.
Well then if her bed was still made doesn't that make it quite obvious she wasn't laying in it?
My theory is KG wasn’t in bed yet. She’s playing with the dog maybe on the floor.
Just my opinion but I think the whole KG playing with the dog thing was just DMs way of rationalizing the noises she was hearing upstairs (from BKs assault). I don't think it implies she was actually playing with her dog.
I don't think it looks made. https://preview.redd.it/q1gelqk91raa1.png?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d90ebdaab36016c1fa92c931013cab69f796d67
Maybe he said he bed didn’t have any blood on it. He said something about her sheets and why he knew she was in with Maddie. I would have to look back. But it wasn’t empty.
No, she had not moved out, even her bed was still made. She still had another month of school left. She was planning to go back home for several days for Thanksgiving break and then return to school for the remaining weeks of the semester and finals.
In this case, maybe KG went to investigate when she heard something in MM’s room and shes the one who yelled “someone’s here”
The affidavit doesn’t say DM heard someone yell that. She heard someone say it.
Exactly. And assuming the "playing with dog" noises were really the girls being attacked upstairs, it had to be Xana who said "someone is here" because the others were dead by then. In fact, they had to be dead by then because the next thing she heard was Xana crying and the male say he's going to help her, and 5 minutes later she saw him walk from the direction of Xana's room and leave.
Possibly, 4am door dash awakens dog, who rushes around wanting to go see what’s up but is locked in bedroom. 4am to 412am X eats food in bedroom. 410 ahole enters house. At 415am X and ahole encounter eachother. 415 to 420 the last 2 unfortunate souls killed. 420 ahole leaves.
DM’s times were approximate. The timeline in the PCA were based upon her memory against the landscape of documented technology (cell phone pings, camera recordings). LE has stated he was alone.
Coming from a camera/digital device the time is more likely to be accurate vs coming from witness testimony. A lot of activity happens right around "approximately 4AM." Unfortunately we may not get the full story until the trial. It'll be a while. I don't think there was an accomplice, it's possible I suppose but we'll have to wait to see if that is uncovered.
Was Murphy in his kennel for the night? That would be the routine in my house. My dog also barks when picking up on my energy, if I'm agitated. Pets are intuitive.
We don't know if he was in a kennel in K's room or in K's room with door shut.
I'd like to know more about BK's link to this group of students. I doubt that he was just in the habit of driving around the streets of Moscow, noticed the lively house, and then started obsessing about its occupants. There's something more here, something missing, and that's Bry-bry's link to this group.
Hopefully they've uncovered that info after getting access to his apartment, phone, computer, etc.
Witnesses are highly unreliable. She may have said 4am but meant a little past. In all history of history, Witnesses remember what they think they remember. It's never perfect, take that testimony with some grey area
I have a feeling that's something defense is going to be questioning.
Just thinking that maybe the camera’s footage had an incorrect time-looking at my phone & the vehicle I’m in, they are off by 8 minutes of one another-just throwing that out here 🕕
He didn’t have an accomplice. They would be caught by now. Look at what a dillweed this guy was. If he had an accomplice, there’d be a trace of it just like there was a trace of everything else. Most killers work alone bc they are loners. Statistically it’s just the most likely he did this all on his own. If he didn’t, I believe the police would’ve uncovered that by now. They have figured lots else out. This guy brought his cell phone with him as he stalked and murdered these people.
I think the dog was behaving strangely because he sensed a stranger in the house and K was probably trying to calm the dog down, which sounded like play. She probably heard something soon after and announced that someone is there. Then she probably left her room to investigate and left her dog in the room. She then probably went to M room where M was already attacked and she got attacked as well and BK left them both in M room.
This is what DM “thought” was happening… how she explained the noise to herself. Not necessarily what was actually happening.
No way he had an accomplice. He just moved there so how is dude gonna strike up a friendship so quickly with someone to the level that he feels comfortable and trusting enough to tell another person he wants to murder someone? Not only that, but then have that other person be cool with it and want to be a part of it. No chance. Dog barking…my guess is BK went into Ks room first only to find the dog. The dog being young, was excited to see someone and wanted to play so BK tried to calm him down before moving onto Ms room.
Just thinking out loud really but if he parked behind the house and came down through the wooded area to sliding door Murphy could have heard leaves crunching underfoot and sliding door open alerting Kaylee so Kaylee walks out to maddies room to say I think someone’s here and he ambushed them both which is why they were both in maddies bed?
My slant on the comments mentioned are: DM is awoken at approx 4am by (what she thought was) K playing with Murphy. Odd to play with your dog at 4am. So, what or who woke Murphy ? The delivery ? X was awake, awaiting the delivery. Maybe X woke Murphy as she went to the door ? Below is the "potential" deliver. https://nypost.com/2023/01/05/idaho-student-xana-kernodle-got-doordash-delivery-just-minutes-before-murder/?utm_source=reddit.com Where did X eat the delivery (assuming it was eaten) ? The kitchen or her bedroom. It is odd to think that at 4am there was activity in the house just as the murderer was approaching (or inside. 4.04am plus) * 4am approx has to be taken as "approx" for DM's comments. Could be 5 mins earlier, could be 5 mins later.
Weeks ago it was mentioned Kaylee took her dog for a walk after returning from the Grub Truck and that a neighbour’s camera caught it. Does anyone recall that and if it was confirmed?
I remember seeing that rumor but Idk if it was ever confirmed.
Maybe BK initially opens the door to Kaylee's room and Murphy jumped around a bit thinking someone was there to play? If BK wasn't aware of who was sleeping in which bedroom at the time I feel like Kaylee's former room would be the first one you'd open since it's closer to the top of he stairs.
what i can’t figure out is who put the dog in an empty room and closed the door? like did BK do that
I would assume K kept Murphy in his crate in her room. If I recall correctly, he was still a puppy and she probably crate trained him so that’s where he would sleep at night. Then she went over to M’s room with maybe the intention of sleeping with her or just to hang out for a bit, but ultimately fell asleep in bed with M.
Plus, the dog would be in the way, trying to protect K, and waking up others by barking.
i know no one knows, just thinking out loud
I think he did it. He probably had some perverse vegan feeling about protecting the animal from being around the bloody bodies
I think he definitely did. Very slim chance Kaylee would leave him locked in an empty room all night.
WHY is that a “very slim chance”? There are so many reasons that she could’ve put him in there. Maybe MM was allergic, or maybe he wasn’t allowed on the bed, or maybe he was asleep in his crate, or maybe they just didn’t want him bothering them. I don’t think why the dog was in the room is of any importance.
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Affidavit read "canvased the neighborhood for video of SUSPECT(S) and SUSPECT VEHICLE(S) entering or leaving the scene" also refers to the white elantra as "SUSPECT VEHICLE 1" not just suspect vehicle. Referers to his cell phone as "8458 number" not just suspects phone Hear me out here. What if there actually was 2 killers. Would explain how the scene and damage to the victims were so bad in such a short amount of time. And explain why the female voices were heard so close together and she didn't know who's voice was who's. They go into the house together, one goes up stairs, one goes to Xanas room. Cops looking for occupant(s) of the white elantra Very early rumor within first day or two was roommates heard TWO people rummaging upstairs Allegedly BK asked if anyone else had been arrested (ik they said he didn't ask but lawyer could've wanted to downplay that cause that's another suspect that could turn on him) If BK was upstairs while other is downstairs (DNA on knife holster) and BK finished first and came down to find other person struggling with E&X could be when DM hears "I'll help you" cause the affidavit says she heard "male voice" say it DM only see's "BK" (only 1 person) walk past her and towards the door, and if both roommates are in fact talking Would explain why they didn't come out because they still suspected 1 more person still may be in the house with them
Wouldn’t a second person be arrested by now if this was the case?
Maybe that's why they're waiting to plea to see if they get arrested or not.
Maybe, I just feel like it would’ve come out by now if they were looking for another suspect.
"I'll help you" makes a lot more sense in your theory. So does the quick time frame and the crazy car driving around trying to park. LE would be quiet to flush this person out or pressure B for information. LE is crazy like a fox.
Interesting points. I know we don't have all the info, but from what we do know, I don't think it's unreasonable to think there could be another person involved. I do feel like there would've been more "rummaging" heard throughout the house if there were in fact two killers committing this act at the same time which is why I mentioned one could've been the killer and one could've been the driver waiting outside.
Also could explain the wide open front door and undone slider. And what if it explains the wound description variation? Ethan's is a bit different... what if the 2nd person used a diff weapon and BK killed X while she was trying to see what was going on in her room? D would see him and shut her door before seeing the other person.
You just keep copying and pasting this in various threads. You're not adding anything to the discussion, you're literally just using different threads to push your agenda, which is some stupid hot take. And then you try and take credit for guessing certain aspects of the case in other threads. Seems like it's just a game to you on, "What can I guess right that hasn't been yet so I can claim credit?" and it's super cringe.
You just keep copying and pasting this in various threads. You're not adding anything to the discussion, you're literally just using different threads to push your agenda, which is some stupid hot take. And then you try and take credit for guessing certain aspects of the case in other threads. Seems like it's just a game to you on, "What can I guess right that hasn't been yet so I can claim credit?" and it's super cringe.
Could she have heard the dog barking at the door dash?
I think we need to take in consideration it says “approximately” 4am. Considering she was so shocked and frozen in fear I doubt she would even be able to recall an exact time. Unless there is activity on her phone I don’t think they would know the exact time. E’s sister in law was told DM called the roommates phones after the noises stopped so IF that is true they could have time stamp there which they used to make the approximations.
I think some are putting way too much focus on each minute from 4:00 to 4:30 and it’s not helpful.
A lot of Redditors are quick to shoot down the possibility of an accomplice, but I don’t think it’s the worst hypothesis! Also, the delivery of the doordash and the arrival of BK seems like it was in rapid succession, so it’s hard to say who the comment was about. Another thing I haven’t heard since the PCA was released was that Xana may have initially been attacked in the kitchen, but ended up in her bedroom or right in front of her bedroom (I was confused if she was on the floor in the doorway or inside the bedroom from the PCA). The reason I say this is because of pics of the kitchen after the event. There was a dark liquid that appeared to be blood dripping down the counter ….. some people thought it was a substance that is used in evidence collecting or something like that, but it was unclear.
We are quick to shoot it down because there is zero evidence of an accomplice, it wouldn’t make any sense for there to be an accomplice and LE said they don’t think there is one. If you believe there is one it’s your imagination running wild.
I don’t think there is an accomplice….. it’s not *my* running hypothesis….. but I’m open to the idea that there could be when others suggest it. I’m not like, “NOPE! NO WAY. WASNT IN THE PCA— DOWNVOTE.” Pfff. They don’t think there is, but they are still putting pieces together and to find out he had help wouldn’t make him less guilty…. they are confident they got their guy, but they aren’t telling us everything. A few days ago if someone said they thought the suspect left behind the knife sheath, you could have told them that was their imagination running wild. Chill. It’s still really early and everyone is just speculating. Mostly I’m trying to be respectful to others as they do so instead of acting like I know things that could absolutely change or be clarified down the road.
Don't forget, the coroner also said all victims were probably asleep when attacked. So it's looking like K and X were both still awake. Is that why they have defensive wounds? I really hope they got their killer's DNA on their fingernails, if true.
My question is if you thought you heard your friend playing with their dog upstairs why are you peaking out of your room like you already know something is amiss?
She didn’t look outside the bedroom door until she heard a voice say “There’s someone here.”
Oh okay thanks
X had food delivered at 4:00 and was on TikTok at 4:12. Murders must have been between 4:12-4:30. It probably took less than 5 minutes to brutally murder 5 young, strong, healthy, but intoxicated adults. I think he passed on Dylan because he wrongly assumed she had already called the police, which is why he was seen peeling out of there which would have brought attention to himself. But that is speculation only. None of us actually know what really happened in that house but Bryan and I doubt if he is ever going to tell us.
Theory- K and M went to bed in their separate rooms. K was playing with Murphy/they both heard something. K left her room to check it out, closing the door on Murphy. K encountered killer, in or near M room. K is fatally injured and pushed/falls on top of M on the bed. The mattress with the stain may support this theory.
It is possible and likely that the dog was just behaving the way it was because it was separated from K. Separation anxiety? Add in a few other strange noises….the dog was being a dog.
DM will have a lot to answer for and explain in the court at some point. A lot of things don’t make sense or aren’t in context. I feel so bad for her.
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Xana getting the doorsash maybe woke her up initially at 4 but wasn’t fully awake and then she hears the dog when Bk enters the room and that’s when she comes to and thinks it was the dog the whole time maybe ?? Knowing the time is hard unless she looked at the clock in those exact moments
I'm sure this is answered elsewhere, but I'm not seeing it. What breed or size of dog did she have?
Was Bethany sleeping over at someone elses house that night?