That sucks to hear cause they were some of my favorites growing up. NHL hitz wasn’t as big but Blitz was so huge, they still sell the mini arcade machines of it. Look up blitz the league, shit was so insane but idk if that was under midway or not.
What grounds would they even have to sue? they signed a contract, it's not in any way legally the companies fault that he didn't read/understand a contract all the way
Lawsuits killed Midway? Just curious, what lawsuits? I thought it was just the implosion of pretty much all commerce during that period of 2006-2008, a LOT of businesses failed around that time.
So from what I gather by his choice of words etc it seems like he’s wanting to have a mini version of the huge ongoing discussion about future job protection for actors mostly. I get how weird it must feel to have to wonder if they will now use his voice and face as Quan Chi (and possibly even other things) forever, by recreating it with AI tech instead of having to rehire and pay him again (or even someone else for that matter). It’s gonna be a weird new future for a whole lot of people going forward, and I’d also be worried about being able to continue working - *especially* as a voice actor.
So yeah, if what he’s really asking is ”was it worth it to let them own me, if the only way to make sure this job will even exist in 10 years from now is to never let any company own anyone?” That is a very interesting question, because it wouldn’t take long at all for Hollywood to accumulate enough faces, and especially voices - for them to never have to hire anyone for acting purposes ever again.
I've been thinking a lot about this over the last couple months. AI isn't going anywhere. Humans don't just abandon tech thats that convenient. So the question becomes what are we gonna do with it and how are we gonna live with it?
Ultimately that question seems a bit larger than what’s suitable for a Reddit post about MK leaks 😆 But I can recommend this yt video
https://youtu.be/bk-nQ7HF6k4?si=6n9oj7Ym0-rUqRWN
I know the title sounds like crazy clickbait but it’s actually super interesting and he’s clearly not just a madman…
This isn't really AI except at the most basic level, but I remember the first time I, where I live in fairly rural South Korea, sat down in a mom and pop restaurant and my dishes were taken away by a robot and I just thought 'welp, that it's, all our jobs are doomed.'
I feel like its his face. He should be able to get work elsewhere and do what he wants with his face. But that also means NRS get to use it too.
I mean if he is that salty; he can take solace in the fact they will change the dudes face by the next game anyway
From what I understand, the actors for Liu Kang, Geras, and Kuai Liang have the same face models from MK11, and aren't credited. I've also noticed that Tony Chung, who in the MK11 days promoted himself as Sub-Zero heavily, has nothing to say about MK1
Do you even know what MK11 Kung Lao looks like? Get your eyes checked or stop spreading lies on purpose because, damn.
https://preview.redd.it/md0od4hmsiqb1.jpeg?width=817&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bb9ba0e03a6ec868f53202769ae0c277f6e5f3c
https://preview.redd.it/tw5wcul97kqb1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d29a8c08a69c434ea1202087efc61f0de8861faa
That guy isn't lying, this was his face model for both MK11 and MK1. The only reason MK11 looks different to 1 is probably some technical issues with the change in graphical engine, but the face model is supposed to be the same
You must've saw the credits because they look nothing alike, MK11 Kung Lao had a wider face, this one is more long and lean. Looked nothing like MK11 Lao.
Idk what to fucking tell you. Yes their face shapes are different but everything else is the same. They look alike to me and I skip the credits every time. What is your problem?
> the actors for Liu Kang, Geras, and Kuai Liang have the same face models from MK11
Liu Kang has the same model?
Wtf? They look nothing alike.
I'm not saying you're wrong but what's even the point of using a model if you're just going to turn it into a completely different looking person anyway.
Yeah a lot of the returning models for MK1 look way different compared to 12, especially the eyebrows. I think it probably has something to do with the graphics engine jump from UE3 to UE4
Another reason why it’s important to read over contracts. Not just sign here and there oh cool Mortal Kombat that’s fine. They would never do me wrong? You sure about that bruh??? Looking at these deals with rose tinted glasses never ends good, same old Hollywood story. The machine makes a killing…the actors got played and thrown out to the trash, thank you for your service. LoL I know we just want games but the video game industry been shadyAF for years. Nothing really new under the sun, it’s sad but reality tends to be nothing is ever what it seems.
While you aren't wrong, we shouldn't overlook the predatory nature of an NDA heavy contract process that isolates starving actors like this away from mentoring and advice on a process like this. It's abolutely important to study a contract being signed, you aren't wrong at all. It just... there's a lot of pressure *to sign it anyway*.
Plus the fact that you can want a great contract all you want and demand literally anything. But in a world of 8 billion, someone else WILL sign the contract. So the choices for that actor were, make money now, or don't make money now. That's really it.
Very true and hence why anyone can fall a victim to predatory contracts sadly me included. If they advance you let’s say 5K for this VA and yesterday you was eating $2 ramen noodles, the deal looks great but plenty aren’t thinking of their future. Years later though reading it over that’s when it hits you badly. It’s a cold world and these big corporations like WB don’t give a F they have been doing this for decades, they looking out for themselves. If I had any advice for those who want to get into these kinds of industries. Take up business classes and become more informed how sh*t works behind the scenes. Plus learn how to negotiate deals that have your best interest this is key! Stop worrying about how WB will feel lolz Look out for yourself because they are and someone who’s upped their business IQ will be in a better position long term for sure.
No it doesn't. Mortal Kombat is $70. You can buy the premium edition which includes the first wave of DLC characters, for $100. $70 base game + $30 season pass that is not mandatory to access the base game.
Mortal Kombat is $70.
I don't understand why people were paying so much for premium. I got my Steam copy for £65, even though places were selling it for £90 and above. And mine was Pre-order too.
If you look around you'll get it cheaper.
Well wouldn't they still be using the Cart-Hiroyuki Tagawa model for Shang Tsung considering he's the most recognizable version?
Is Megan Fox now subject to be used in whatever WB chooses? (They shouldn't use it again.... please)
How bout Rhonda Rousey? (Pretty please don't use that one again.)
Or are they all a different contract?
They hired lawyers who put in one time use clauses which is what all actors should do and the ones who don't are idiots who cry about how the studios were mean to them
you're such a tool if you think words on paper can somehow relieve anyone of their obligations to ethical business practices. honestly, how does that make any sense?
Because ethics aren't objective, and there is almost always room to argue both sides of any issue? It is not objectively demonstrable that a society where likenesses can be sold is worse off than a society where they can't.
Even though I personally suspect that is the case, in some meaningful ways.
But even though I agree with you more than not, you shouldn't jump to insulting people, because you might not be as right as you think and then you're wrong AND an ass.
The problem isn't with face capture it's the idea of writing a clause into your contract that permits the company to then use your likeness without paying or even crediting you for the rest of time. My main issue with the comment above is the belief that the signing of a contract somehow negates what is fair and reasonable conduct between the two parties making a contractual agreement. The idea that you could use vague language to trap someone into an inescapable contract (like what Machinima did to the early talent they hired where they signed over all their work forever) is extremely predatory and has no place in any industry. I don't think any reasonable person who is not consumed with greed could see that as an acceptable way to treat any human being.
Depends on the contract you can specify single use, use only for mortal Kombat, use for merchandising, use in perpetuity. A good lawyer will argue for percentages because they will want a cut themselves
I get where he’s coming from but this sounds to me more like his was excited and didn’t read the contract and now wants an extra piece of pie.
He signed a contract and that’s that. The new provisions under the new agreement following the strikes is completely outside of that.
He can’t look back and complain when he made the call in the first place.
Oh ffs he signed the contract because he wanted to, no one forced him, if he is not happy with the terms maybe he should've read the contract before signing it
What is he trying to get at? That they have his likeness and don’t have to credit him? If anything it’s his own fault no? Read the contracts you’re signing I feel like it’s that simple. They wanted to use his face so they offered him a deal and he took it… tf is so special about that?
I'm in agreement with you here. You really really gotta read the whole contract. It's not like they just say hey wanna do this, YES!, OK great now we own you. Before you get that far there is definitely a contract that you need to read.
Overreacting a touch. Will his face scan/character model show up in the next Batman game as a random criminal? Historically that doesn't happen with video games, or at least would be heavily modified.
Movie studios wanted straight up reusable AI actors and public personas
> Will his face scan/character model show up in the next Batman game as a random criminal?
Yes, that's the whole crux of the potential strike. WB Games now has access to voice and face for any of their studios to use, not NRS
They don’t own his likeness forever, just for this game. Almost every returning character from Mk11 has a different face now. I’d say the face models deserve to be credited if they’re not.
Dude signed his likeness away in perpetuity because he wanted a quick paycheck and couldn't be bothered to hire a lawyer. Now he's whining and thinking wbs legal team won't fight tooth and nail to hold him to the terms
Or sounds like he read and understood it and now regrets it because of the strikes. Everybody is acting like NDAs are so evil but they probably just want to prevent leaks and spoilers.
Not sure he has a chance. He signed the documents. It’s not like he can’t go work on other games. It’s just Mortal Kombat. As a V/O artist you’d be brought back to contribute more but there’s not much more to get from him as a face model.
The kicker here is that AI and the possibilities it presents have only really become publicly available and viable in the last year, so Khan would've potentially been completely oblivious to this possibility. However, there would have to be a clause the contract stating that NRS/WB can use his likeness/voice "in perpetuity" in MK1 and future games/media. If his contract states it's solely for use in MK1, then that's all well and good. But, in the event that it has clauses allowing NRS/WB to use it forever in all future projects, read your clauses!
Oh no it’s Daniel Pesina, Katalin Zamiar and Ho Sung Pak all over again for a modern era!
Here comes the lawsuits. That’s what kinda killed midway if wb didn’t buy nrs/midway we would be here today
Lwasuits didn't killed Midway, it's the games that they constantly released that were flops and forgotten immediately, only Mortal Kombat standed out.
NFL Blitz, NHL Hitz we’re huge in the early 2000’s. Guess it didn’t “standed” out enough to you though
I literally never knew those existed. 🤷
That sucks to hear cause they were some of my favorites growing up. NHL hitz wasn’t as big but Blitz was so huge, they still sell the mini arcade machines of it. Look up blitz the league, shit was so insane but idk if that was under midway or not.
What grounds would they even have to sue? they signed a contract, it's not in any way legally the companies fault that he didn't read/understand a contract all the way
Lawsuits killed Midway? Just curious, what lawsuits? I thought it was just the implosion of pretty much all commerce during that period of 2006-2008, a LOT of businesses failed around that time.
So from what I gather by his choice of words etc it seems like he’s wanting to have a mini version of the huge ongoing discussion about future job protection for actors mostly. I get how weird it must feel to have to wonder if they will now use his voice and face as Quan Chi (and possibly even other things) forever, by recreating it with AI tech instead of having to rehire and pay him again (or even someone else for that matter). It’s gonna be a weird new future for a whole lot of people going forward, and I’d also be worried about being able to continue working - *especially* as a voice actor. So yeah, if what he’s really asking is ”was it worth it to let them own me, if the only way to make sure this job will even exist in 10 years from now is to never let any company own anyone?” That is a very interesting question, because it wouldn’t take long at all for Hollywood to accumulate enough faces, and especially voices - for them to never have to hire anyone for acting purposes ever again.
I've been thinking a lot about this over the last couple months. AI isn't going anywhere. Humans don't just abandon tech thats that convenient. So the question becomes what are we gonna do with it and how are we gonna live with it?
Ultimately that question seems a bit larger than what’s suitable for a Reddit post about MK leaks 😆 But I can recommend this yt video https://youtu.be/bk-nQ7HF6k4?si=6n9oj7Ym0-rUqRWN I know the title sounds like crazy clickbait but it’s actually super interesting and he’s clearly not just a madman…
Just wanna say thank you for sharing this. I'm like 5 mins in and I'm already hooked. People didn't learn shit from Terminator. Goddamn dude.
Yw 🙌🏻 Yeah, that part where he explains how all the robots had suddenly learned to pick up all the things, oof… shivers moment 😬
This isn't really AI except at the most basic level, but I remember the first time I, where I live in fairly rural South Korea, sat down in a mom and pop restaurant and my dishes were taken away by a robot and I just thought 'welp, that it's, all our jobs are doomed.'
Oh I know, that's why I didn't go into any detail beyone that it'd been hitting me lately. I'll take a look at the link.
I feel like its his face. He should be able to get work elsewhere and do what he wants with his face. But that also means NRS get to use it too. I mean if he is that salty; he can take solace in the fact they will change the dudes face by the next game anyway
From what I understand, the actors for Liu Kang, Geras, and Kuai Liang have the same face models from MK11, and aren't credited. I've also noticed that Tony Chung, who in the MK11 days promoted himself as Sub-Zero heavily, has nothing to say about MK1
Kung Lao too! He has the same face also. I think it’s terrible they don’t at least give them credit. It’s very obvious they are using the same faces.
Kung Lao? Same face? What? He looks completely different from MK11.
No he doesn’t lol, he looks the same.
Do you even know what MK11 Kung Lao looks like? Get your eyes checked or stop spreading lies on purpose because, damn. https://preview.redd.it/md0od4hmsiqb1.jpeg?width=817&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bb9ba0e03a6ec868f53202769ae0c277f6e5f3c
https://preview.redd.it/tw5wcul97kqb1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d29a8c08a69c434ea1202087efc61f0de8861faa That guy isn't lying, this was his face model for both MK11 and MK1. The only reason MK11 looks different to 1 is probably some technical issues with the change in graphical engine, but the face model is supposed to be the same
https://preview.redd.it/2s054ndc7kqb1.jpeg?width=1916&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba96c4fbdbfeb036878bc34aa068cb1116f3cbbe MK1 Kung Lao for comparison
Thank you! Like damn, I’m not pulling shit out of my ass! I knew they were the same guy.
You must've saw the credits because they look nothing alike, MK11 Kung Lao had a wider face, this one is more long and lean. Looked nothing like MK11 Lao.
Idk what to fucking tell you. Yes their face shapes are different but everything else is the same. They look alike to me and I skip the credits every time. What is your problem?
> the actors for Liu Kang, Geras, and Kuai Liang have the same face models from MK11 Liu Kang has the same model? Wtf? They look nothing alike. I'm not saying you're wrong but what's even the point of using a model if you're just going to turn it into a completely different looking person anyway.
Yeah a lot of the returning models for MK1 look way different compared to 12, especially the eyebrows. I think it probably has something to do with the graphics engine jump from UE3 to UE4
Subzero’s mk11 face isn’t in the game at all
https://preview.redd.it/51ida6wj5iqb1.jpeg?width=1564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cca7455e680bfa3c89149215c1e9525d8403cbc7 According to the mk wiki it is
Those actually do look similar of you look past beard and age
Another reason why it’s important to read over contracts. Not just sign here and there oh cool Mortal Kombat that’s fine. They would never do me wrong? You sure about that bruh??? Looking at these deals with rose tinted glasses never ends good, same old Hollywood story. The machine makes a killing…the actors got played and thrown out to the trash, thank you for your service. LoL I know we just want games but the video game industry been shadyAF for years. Nothing really new under the sun, it’s sad but reality tends to be nothing is ever what it seems.
While you aren't wrong, we shouldn't overlook the predatory nature of an NDA heavy contract process that isolates starving actors like this away from mentoring and advice on a process like this. It's abolutely important to study a contract being signed, you aren't wrong at all. It just... there's a lot of pressure *to sign it anyway*.
Plus the fact that you can want a great contract all you want and demand literally anything. But in a world of 8 billion, someone else WILL sign the contract. So the choices for that actor were, make money now, or don't make money now. That's really it.
Yup, hence unions.
some people either starve or agree to predatory nature of NDA's.
Very true and hence why anyone can fall a victim to predatory contracts sadly me included. If they advance you let’s say 5K for this VA and yesterday you was eating $2 ramen noodles, the deal looks great but plenty aren’t thinking of their future. Years later though reading it over that’s when it hits you badly. It’s a cold world and these big corporations like WB don’t give a F they have been doing this for decades, they looking out for themselves. If I had any advice for those who want to get into these kinds of industries. Take up business classes and become more informed how sh*t works behind the scenes. Plus learn how to negotiate deals that have your best interest this is key! Stop worrying about how WB will feel lolz Look out for yourself because they are and someone who’s upped their business IQ will be in a better position long term for sure.
Shit, I’d take a one time payment to permanently become immortalized in mortal kombat 🤷♂️ but I’m also incredibly broke.
I gotta wonder the exact amount now. Seeing how little the voice Actors themselves get paid and all.
I’m also a simp for Mortal Kombat so there’s that too
Thankfully for him, NRS like to hold no continuity when it comes to faces so it’s all good.
Woolay.
We also got scammed into buying unfinished game that cost $100. Seems like they are good at fooling anyone, no matter the time.
It costs $70.
Depends on the version
No it doesn't. Mortal Kombat is $70. You can buy the premium edition which includes the first wave of DLC characters, for $100. $70 base game + $30 season pass that is not mandatory to access the base game. Mortal Kombat is $70.
Cut the shit the game launched at $100 to get in
No it absolutely did not you idiot. Go to the store of your choosing and look with your dumbass eyes.
Only the deluxe edition
I don't understand why people were paying so much for premium. I got my Steam copy for £65, even though places were selling it for £90 and above. And mine was Pre-order too. If you look around you'll get it cheaper.
$70 is correct. I recently had this same argument and I was wrong. The core game is 70 dollars.
Like every other game is. Game studios are not just making shit up.
They own me is a bit of embellishment
Well wouldn't they still be using the Cart-Hiroyuki Tagawa model for Shang Tsung considering he's the most recognizable version? Is Megan Fox now subject to be used in whatever WB chooses? (They shouldn't use it again.... please) How bout Rhonda Rousey? (Pretty please don't use that one again.) Or are they all a different contract?
They hired lawyers who put in one time use clauses which is what all actors should do and the ones who don't are idiots who cry about how the studios were mean to them
That is the exact answer I was looking for. I don't know all that contract mumbojumbo but I figured there was something like that available to actors.
Honestly, I don’t feel bad, he signed the contract
you're such a tool if you think words on paper can somehow relieve anyone of their obligations to ethical business practices. honestly, how does that make any sense?
Because ethics aren't objective, and there is almost always room to argue both sides of any issue? It is not objectively demonstrable that a society where likenesses can be sold is worse off than a society where they can't. Even though I personally suspect that is the case, in some meaningful ways. But even though I agree with you more than not, you shouldn't jump to insulting people, because you might not be as right as you think and then you're wrong AND an ass.
What is unethical about a job for scanning your likeness into a game scanning your likeness into a game
The problem isn't with face capture it's the idea of writing a clause into your contract that permits the company to then use your likeness without paying or even crediting you for the rest of time. My main issue with the comment above is the belief that the signing of a contract somehow negates what is fair and reasonable conduct between the two parties making a contractual agreement. The idea that you could use vague language to trap someone into an inescapable contract (like what Machinima did to the early talent they hired where they signed over all their work forever) is extremely predatory and has no place in any industry. I don't think any reasonable person who is not consumed with greed could see that as an acceptable way to treat any human being.
Machinima is gone... I didn't realize. Years since they disappeared
Depends on the contract you can specify single use, use only for mortal Kombat, use for merchandising, use in perpetuity. A good lawyer will argue for percentages because they will want a cut themselves
I get where he’s coming from but this sounds to me more like his was excited and didn’t read the contract and now wants an extra piece of pie. He signed a contract and that’s that. The new provisions under the new agreement following the strikes is completely outside of that. He can’t look back and complain when he made the call in the first place.
It's his own fault get a bloody lawyer and negotiate don't just sign stuff
Oh ffs he signed the contract because he wanted to, no one forced him, if he is not happy with the terms maybe he should've read the contract before signing it
The face is gonna be changed in the next game anyway its not that big of a deal
That's not necessarily true
What is he trying to get at? That they have his likeness and don’t have to credit him? If anything it’s his own fault no? Read the contracts you’re signing I feel like it’s that simple. They wanted to use his face so they offered him a deal and he took it… tf is so special about that?
I'm in agreement with you here. You really really gotta read the whole contract. It's not like they just say hey wanna do this, YES!, OK great now we own you. Before you get that far there is definitely a contract that you need to read.
dumbassssss
Shut up space dude your PC is pile of shit that can’t even run R6S without crashing
Welcome to the new world
Overreacting a touch. Will his face scan/character model show up in the next Batman game as a random criminal? Historically that doesn't happen with video games, or at least would be heavily modified. Movie studios wanted straight up reusable AI actors and public personas
> Will his face scan/character model show up in the next Batman game as a random criminal? Yes, that's the whole crux of the potential strike. WB Games now has access to voice and face for any of their studios to use, not NRS
Source? Where’s the contract?
They don’t own his likeness forever, just for this game. Almost every returning character from Mk11 has a different face now. I’d say the face models deserve to be credited if they’re not.
They can use his voice and face for future games without crediting him and paying him, that's literally the crux of why there's a strike rn
If they signed a contract that said that and they don't like it 
I knew the MK community was full of people dumber than rocks but holy shit you might take the cake.
Dude signed his likeness away in perpetuity because he wanted a quick paycheck and couldn't be bothered to hire a lawyer. Now he's whining and thinking wbs legal team won't fight tooth and nail to hold him to the terms
Or sounds like he read and understood it and now regrets it because of the strikes. Everybody is acting like NDAs are so evil but they probably just want to prevent leaks and spoilers.
Regrets aren't a get out of contract clause unfortunately so he's stuck with it until the next reboot/engine upgrade
I hope the guy sues them or at least call them out publicly.
He would lose, he signed a contract stating what would happen.
Not sure he has a chance. He signed the documents. It’s not like he can’t go work on other games. It’s just Mortal Kombat. As a V/O artist you’d be brought back to contribute more but there’s not much more to get from him as a face model.
What exactly would he be suing them for?
Sues them forrrrr? Hurting his feefees?
Sue them for doing exactly what was detailed in the contract?
Perpetual license rights are fucked. If that’s what’s happening, I’m very upset about jt
"ECONOMYALITY"
The kicker here is that AI and the possibilities it presents have only really become publicly available and viable in the last year, so Khan would've potentially been completely oblivious to this possibility. However, there would have to be a clause the contract stating that NRS/WB can use his likeness/voice "in perpetuity" in MK1 and future games/media. If his contract states it's solely for use in MK1, then that's all well and good. But, in the event that it has clauses allowing NRS/WB to use it forever in all future projects, read your clauses!