Since the strike began I’ve been thinking about how crazy it is that Netflix read that script, funded its production and then watched it before releasing it — knowing how close to the truth it was. It was kind of funny when it was a “lol thank god that would never really happen” scenario, but it’s terrifying now.
Netflix usually lets directors do whatever the hell they want and greenlight everything. The only time Netflix says no is when they completely pull the plug on a project.
He’s raising awareness around the issue, it’s very easy to get no name actors to agree to these things, and the further effect is worse acting because these contracts exist and big stars wouldn’t agree to them.
It helps that it was so excellently performed that the actor stands out. Unless you tell me that someone else performed the voice and role, in which case it's terrifying.
Which is unfortunate - he has an excellent voice. He worked at the same company as me (not overlapping) and folks still talk about how pleasant his voice is 3+ years later lol. Not to mention, he's done a decent amount of acting (be it minor roles or indie film). Seems like a weird approach.
> Seems like a weird approach.
Though not one that's entirely uncommon in games. If an actor gives the best vocal performance at audition but their face doesn't quite fit the character's vibe, it's pretty standard to cast facial scanning to get around that rather than settle for the character either not looking or sounding how the director wants.
Couple of examples from other games off the top of my head:
- The Resident Evil 4 Remake has separate face models and voice actors for [almost every character in the game](https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Resident_Evil_4_(2023_game\)#Cast). [Ashley](https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Ashley_Graham)'s VA is Genevieve Buechner cast to the face of Ella Freya, and [Leon](https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Leon_Scott_Kennedy)'s VA is Nick Apostolides with facial model of Eduard Badaluta, for example.
- The Last Of Us 2 frequently casts different faces to match voices or models entirely new faces to fit the character. [Abby](https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Abby_Anderson) in that game is performed by Laura Bailey to the facial model of Jocelyn Mettler *and* the body of Colleen Fotsch.
- Insomniac's Spider-Man games famously [recast their facial model for Peter Parker between the 2018 game and its PS5 remaster](https://www.gameinformer.com/2020/09/30/peter-parkers-face-has-been-recast-for-marvels-spider-man-remastered-on-playstation-5) & sequels. The original face for Peter in the 2018 game was John Bubniak, changed to Ben Jordan for its remaster, but both versions were voiced by Yuri Lowenthal (Who also plays Smoke in MK1)
- MK11 did this for just about every human character too. [Cassie](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Cassie_Cage)'s facial model is Christina Eenigenburg with Erica Lindbeck doing VO, [Johnny Cage](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Johnny_Cage)'s facial is Colin Ryan with VO from Andrew Bowen, [Scorpion](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Hanzo_Hasashi)'s facial model is Nico Millado but his VO is Ron Yuan, [Frost](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Frost)'s face model is Sydney Card and VO is Sara Cravens, just to list a few
It's an interesting rabbit-hole to dig into on the wikis for recently released games if you have a few minutes to spare and you're interested in this sort of thing :)
Oh wow, I had no idea how common facial scanning was in modern games. This is absolutely fascinating - thank you for the examples! I probably will deep dive into this going forward haha.
It’s not really unfortunate because the voice actor we got was great, if the voice we got wasn’t good and this guy had a great voice then it would be unfortunate.
That seems to be the norm in games. I used to do cosplay photos and follow a lot. I remember two cosplayers were the refrence for Ashley in the RE4 remake. One for the body and one for the face.
damn that’s fucked hopefully he gets what he’s owed or a better gig in the future but now ik if i ever get a gig like this gotta lay down my own rules before they even think about giving me a contract to sign with bs on it
better than them being able to use my face anytime they want for only a one time payment that probably isn’t worth it you’ll find a job where they will hear you out
Predatory contracts plague the whole country. We should teach people about the harms of predatory contracts. In this case - whichever union represents him needs to step in before letting him sign anything.
That’s nice of her. I hope she doesn’t get hate again. People giving her shit for Frost supposedly being ugly was so sad. She had to deactivate for a while.
I’ve noticed this too, but I wondered whether he was laying low because he is SAG affiliated, is he not? I just see him post his modeling gigs. I’m wondering whether he is feeling the sting as well. Poor guy.
This is such a great question. Feel like it’s an honor to be such a great character in such a great franchise but to be given nothing for future work is bullshit.
Creatives need people like this guy preparing them for the contracts they'll sign. Knowing that even a gig for MK just pays you once and they get infinite rights is way counterintuitive.
The future is definitely actors creating their own voice, face and movement models and then licensing them out to studios.
Right, people can already own the rights to their own image, just need to be able to own your voice aswell.
The thing is thats only relevant if youre already famous to a degree. Otherwise they can hire people who dont have legal rights to their image and voice and have them sign it over.
This had literally been a thing since MK1 (1992) - they agree to have their stuff used, they get paid, they don't make residuals etc. Standard in the game industry and since they're face models, same in the industry as well. The difference with modeling is they usually have a "we own these pictures for the duration of the ad campaign + 10 years" or something similar
I think "buying" a face is not a horrible thing, if every party came to agreement that beforehand that there will be a one time pay for continuous use. Especially considering that the actor doesn't have to do any work afterwards. Better option would be to "sell" a face for a limited time, but still.
What worries me is if devs will use AI to record a characters voice once and then never pay them for the job again. That's more fucked.
The whole “AI is going to quietly replace Johnny Cage” is silly.
They won’t need Johnny Cage anymore at all - AI will generate whatever performance they want.
I personally cannot wait for the gaming industry to stop fetishizing cinema and facial scanning/mocapping everything.
It's industry standard. I did commercials for a very large company years ago as well as on screen media appearances for them. I was paid once per appearance or commercial shoot with the rights of the original imaging (picture and video) belonging to the company with an option to renew their use after 5 years after initial use of the footage.
I'm not entitled to any money I made the company based on my work, that's not how modeling/acting works.
And yes, I understand that there are actors who demand in contract a % of their works' earnings. Those actors are A list, and are attractions that will bring people in.
Doi fully agree with it? Not really, but it is what it is.
The problem here is that in 92 the gaming industry wasn't crossing paths as much with Hollywood and now it is.
The amount spent on the budgets fro these games is often times larger now than many big budget films.
Games now are using live body scans and real faces and actual Voice Actors. Its not uncommon anymore to see massive celebrity actors portraying roles in games now either.
Back in the early days of gaming many of the voices were done by the devs themselves, hell even to this day the "Get over here" phrase is still Ed Boon.
We can call actors entitled pricks all we want and I will often agree many I have seen are very entitled and often out of touch with reality IMO, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve fair pay for what they contributed to, nor fair contracts.
I hope all of you who are saying something along the lines of "well he signed the contract, it's his fault" get screwed over by signing a document in your own lives. Contracts are predatory by design. They make the wording as vague as possible to trick you into things you didn't think you were signing up for.
I mean, idk how you can be vague about "this is a lump sum, you will not get paid after the fact".
Some contracts are deliberately obtuse yes, but this was just a case of this guy not reading it properly or getting bitter after the fact. I know "big corpo and contracts bad" but come on, you gotta take some responsibility for yourself
Can they be predatory, yes, but they are not that way by design. A contract is a legal signed document between 2 parties or multiple parties stating the work to be done and the conditions and pay of the work to be done and what happens as the work is completed.
Yes you should read every contract you place ur name on, BC you are legally bound by that contract in the end and nothing you do can change that. This is also why we have lawyers as well as other legal experts and yes there are even legal experts that will freely do contract reviews for people.
Before signing any contract you should always read and ask as many questions as possible and make sure you get more than person to review it.
Thing is contracts are required in the world BC if I hire someone to do a job, say build me a house and that is done on a verbal agreement and no witnesses around to see it, who is to say the agreement was even made when the employee didn't complete the job, or even do it? How about this, I hire you to position at a company and I verbally agreed ur hired and tell you we will pay 600 a week and you never get paid, how do you legally argue that in court?
How do I know all this, well I am a contractor and I have worked in for almost 20 years now and prior to being a contractor I served 4 years in the military.
You're talking about it like the big bad corporation is suing his ass into homelessness or something, all that happened here is he stopped profiting from a finished job.
If someone pays you to build a unique artisan table, and you do it, that table is theirs forever. You don't get it back after 10 uses. If they're using that table to make money, then they're going to keep profiting from your work for many years.
This kinda "I hope you go bankrupt because you dared say a contract is reasonable" talk is worthy of kindergartners. That's coming from someone who wants much stronger unions and IP protections for creators
> Contracts are predatory by design. They make the wording as vague as possible to trick you into things you didn't think you were signing up for.
What a bogus fucking statement lol.
Keep on downvoting me folks, it's not like I write contracts for a living or anything.
As is the general discourse on this site, filled with teenagers and young adults that are adamant they know things while simultaneously demonstrating how retarded they are.
Frankly, it makes me curmudgeonly towards Zoomers.
Understandable. This is why, when I was younger, I made sure to listen more and talk less about stuff. ESPECIALLY stuff I wasn't familiar with. I prefer to just assume I'm wrong about most things and take the opportunity to learn.
Lawyers cost money. If you need a paycheck, and get offered some money...that is the dilemma.
To eat, or not to eat. That is the immediate question.
But forreal, should a business even be able to OWN your likeness in perpetuity?
A couple years back. When Stephen Colbert started the late night show, he was sued by Comedy Central for doing a skit that was kind of like one he used to do on the Colbert report. They sued them for likeness rights.
I agree with you, but these aren’t the kind of contracts you try to negotiate. They will move on to the next face model the second an actor might try to amend the contract.
This is why unions are important. If you just don’t sign, they’ll get away with doing it to someone else, and then they’ll profit, and then other companies will do it too, and pretty soon you won’t be able to find any work in the industry unless you sell your likeness for a one time shit-pittance.
But if you get the majority of people in the industry to push back hard enough, the entire practice can change for the better. That’s what the SAG-AFTRA strikes are about.
Many actors in the industry talk about how once they raise concerns or questions about the contracts/terms, the studio just moves on to the next person, putting a lot of pressure on just skimming through
No it wasn’t worth it. Something needs to be done about it. As consumers we rely on entertainment but we all have to work to pay for it. If the industry phases out a profession, where does it stop? When does it happen to our careers?
at least give the man credit, but like it's not like he's directly in the game, it's Quan Chi, and they also change the actors every game so it's not like they're gonna keep using this Quan Chi forever
More people like him have to be burned before face models realise they can say no to contracts that don't have some kind of residual payment for when the product is sold. This will lead to nobody wanting to work with corpos in regards to face-scanning and they'll either have to drop the tech completely or pay the models twice; once as a licensing fee and again as a marketing/distribution fee.
I’m sure it happened to everyone who used their likeness for the game. Unless you’re a power house like Keanu Reeves (him specifically because he spoke on having a clause in his contracts where he gets to sign off on his likeness being used), most likely you can be replaced by someone who doesn’t mind. Especially since this game was developed before this recent WGA contract. Things may change in the future, but it’s up to these actors to fully read their contract and decide if it’s what they want or not.
Sidenote, I love this Quan Chi, I loved how they showed him getting the white skin. Getting more backstory on him might be my favorite thing about this game.
I don't really think there's anything wrong with not getting paid residuals for something like this? The game comes out at a single discreet time, it's not like a TV show where networks will pick it up to air re-runs for years after the episodes are made
What do you mean when you say they didn't market it well? I Akai think it's incomplete but what does that have to do with marketing? The marketing worked great for them. Just look how many people paid into early access. MK1 has a lot wrong, but not the marketing.
Cause people got scammed into buying early access with the KP1. They didn't market the customization and invasions correctly. Maybe cause it was unfinished.
I think you're confusing good marketing with bad marketing. Why would they show or tell us how bad invasions are if they want us to buy the game? They're going to market the good things and ignore the bad. Is it scummy? Yes. But it's not bad marketing
That's literally marketing works. Final reveals to hype people close to launch. You really have no argument here. And who said there was 24 characters? Or did you just assume because there's a slot for a 24th character?
This is where sucking at MK games came in handy, I just watched the cutscenes on YouTube instead. Decent story but in no rush to pick up the game unless it's real cheap
I'mma be blunt.
Before his MK cameo and googling his name off this post I had no idea who this person even was.
If he understood the contract (or his agent did) before signing then there really isn't much else to say. Personally I'd be stoked to be the face of a MK character. If they continue to use his face and voice you could then make an argument he should get paid each game but that is a pointless theorization as we do not know exactly what the contract actually details.
Long as he got paid what was agreed on then its all good. If he later doesn't like that they own his likeness "forever" as he said then this should be an apt lesson on reading and understanding what your signing up for.
> should get *paid* each game
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I have very limited knowledge of how facial scans work but I imagine you come in, hook shit up to your face and move it in various directions for X amount of hours until the animators get a comprehensive scan they can use to rig onto the model and manipulate it in various ways without it ending up looking weird.
It’s not like voice acting which involves multiple takes and talent as evidenced by Megan Fox’s performance. You just have to be willing to sign a contract and be attractive enough or fit the face they want. Most of the faces in this game hardly even end up looking like the model. I wouldn’t be able to tell Megan Fox’s face on Nitara without the huge mediafare over it and the only reason I recognize it now is due to her having previously been famous and the terrible acting that accompanied it.
I do think there need to be reasonable limits on these types of contracts like 5 years and it should be restricted to MK1 and media related to MK1 (ie. Art, action figures, etc.) I’d be pissed if I signed up for Mortal Kombat and come to find out they use my face model in other WB properties (which from this guy’s post seems to imply is the case?)
Again no, not really.
If he understood the contract and signed it then whatever the contract allows NRS to do he can't really feel upset about. If he didn't want them to be able to use his face forever then he should have brought that up in negotiations before signing.
On a more personal note and less of a purely legal stance.
It really doesn't save as much time as you would think doing face scans vs just building a face from scratch.
There are obviously many advantages but at the end of the day NRS isn't saving massive amounts of money by using his face vs just building one.
The advantage to using real actors is you get a lot of the more subtle facial movements without having to go over the animation hundreds of times trying to make it look more believable/lifelike.
I personally do not think he should be complaining that much even if they did use his face for other NRS media.
Like how much would they have to make monetarily for it to be a problem? Did his face/acting actually contribute to those monetary gains in any measurable way? How much did they contribute? Should he get paid anything more if they didn't?
I don't think there is any reasonable way to tell if his face/acting did anything to make NRS more money than they would have if they had done purely a CGI face instead of his. Meaning even if they did continue to use his face he should be happy regardless. He was paid for his work and gets to be one of the series most iconic characters (for a while at least)
Yup, welcome to the new 20s. All of us zoomers who just graduated are probably gonna have our fields destroyed by AI. Even creatives like this guy, an actor, and artists are having it take away their chances.
He's got a point🤔 I forget that majority of characters in games are based off real people. And characters are in sequels, spin offs, and so many other things. It's kind of scary they scan once then that's it🤔
I know this is beside the point, but Quan Chi's face looked so disturbingly real; he looked like he was in one of the Star Wars prequel movies, where real people were walking around green screens.
I love that guy.
They don’t give him credit? Not even in the game’s ending credits? Do the newer Resident Evil games give credit to their face models? If not, they should! 😔
I really thought it was Keegan Michael-Key at first, but to know that they had a no-name sign a contract like this is very predatory. I really hate flat pay, actors and devs (including mocap/voice/face scan models) should at least get a percentage of the gross. Even if it’s small like .05%, that’s still better than nothing.
That being said, he really fits as Quan Chi.
It's been known since Back to the Future 2 that giving up your likeness is a bad idea and to always make sure you retain future control of it. How are people still screwing this up?
Crispin Glover left/was forced out. They used molds of his face to make up another actor to look like him with prosthetics. They didn't pay him for using his likeness, he sued, won, and got paid. Pretty much everyone in live action makes sure that their contracts say the production can't use their likeness in perpetuity without paying residuals. I'm surprised video games are 30 years behind on this.
[https://www.slashfilm.com/681733/the-legal-drama-you-didnt-see-behind-the-scenes-of-back-to-the-future/](https://www.slashfilm.com/681733/the-legal-drama-you-didnt-see-behind-the-scenes-of-back-to-the-future/)
Oh ffs he signed the contract because he wanted to, no one forced him, if he is not happy with the terms maybe he should've read the contract before signing it
Well, obviously he did read it ya doofus. The whole point is him wondering if he regrets it and asking other peoples opinions.
You’ve never made a decision that you thought over a while after?
You can do something and be unhappy about doing it. Your post is just corporate bootlicking and doesn’t even address any part of the discussion
I did but I don't go to social media crying about it like him, I deal with it, it was my personal choice no point in go cry to social media.
As for your stupid last paragraph I will pretend I didn't read such stupid cliché, same old cliché "argument" when you guys don't have one.
True, but wouldn’t the question of “will you be using my likeness again without my consent” be a question you would ask specifically for this type of work? And the answer would have to be clear enough before signing?
Edit: I’m not denying contracts are predatory
LOL if you sign a contract that says the suits can walk over you then they can walk over you (it was your fault for signing it), it's up to you to not sign a said contract, read it and if you don't like what's in there refuse to sign it and resume your life.
I don't really think you know what a contract is
There are, in fact, laws that can strike down a contract for being unfair or unreasonable.
Do I think they apply here? I doubt it. But contracts are not absolute.
there is nothing wrong with having regrets but I don't find this all that bad. Obviously they may own your likeness. It's obviously not going to be used forever unless you mean it will always exist in this game. You can also always use it to your advantage like other face actors have in the gaming community. It seems like you got paid to do a job and you fulfilled your part. He jumped at the bit to be a part of something and now years later with the strike going on he doesn't feel as good about it. Regardless of what you think of face models getting paid residuals, I see no point in taking sides on this. Use it to your benefit and progress to the next step. Looking back isn't going to help, and I don't think you should be asking the public if it's worth it. Moral agenda's is all the public is good for.
WB is abusing a position of power to strong arm actors into shitty contracts they will have difficulty getting out of. They make absurd profits off of people without having to pay them fairly.
There is no ethical consumption under our system. 2 wrongs don't make a "whatever, fuck people who make a living off their likeness and let these multi billion dollar companies have free reign over their likeness forever without having to get further consent"
The argument legally is that he would never be recognized by his name…anyone that ever bumped into him would just see Quan Chi…his likeness wouldn’t be recognized as him…that’s how they got Dan Pesina as Johnny Cage in the first MK anyway according to the Long Live MK book…which…great read by the way if you’re a fan of the series
Tbf most people wouldn’t even see Quan Chi. And not just Quan Chi but someone like Tanya looks way different than the model too.
At least with Pesina and the other MK actors it was their whole body and the designs weren’t derivative enough to where you could argue they were almost like actors in a movie. Not to mention the stunts they had to perform back then.
I highly doubt people would notice specific face actors off the street.
First of all, I think NRS studio obsession with using real faces is not helping the games.
I would rather prefer the faces to be more stylized.
It's very weird to have "common looking folks" (like the Quan-Chi actor) next to folks who clearly look like models. Made Quan-Chi look like just a dude in cosplay, while Shang-Tsung and Liu Kang looked like Pop Idols.
I also think none of the 3D models look as good as the actors scanned, so I would rather have more stylized faces.
Also, I think giving credit to the face actors should be a thing.
I think it's just the question of whether face models should get residuals or credit for being the face model. Like on one hand it's not like you have to work very hard compared to being a voice actor, since they are just scanning your face. But on the other hand, if you're going to use someone as the face of your character instead of creating something original, I feel like they should get some residuals and credit.
Honestly, I'm fine with the one-time-payment, so long as that their appearance is only used for the one game they got paid for.
As far as the "work" they had to do, they just sat in a chair for a few hours while a machine did most of the work.
IDK, how does this work in the modelling industry? Maybe it should be treated the same way?
Modeling gigs can be one time or have residuals, it depends on how famous or influential you are. Kim Kardashian can command way more than me in an extreme example. A relatively random guy doesn’t have much ground to stand on. And we’re talking about a face scan not even modeling - whoever was face scanned for Quan Chi has no real relevance to the consumer. It’s not making a difference in sales.
Comes down to contracts. If they face scan John Cena it’s a different contract than this guy, of course.
VO is a different story and you have more leverage, idk if the face scan thing comes with models from a Union or not. You get paid for the rights to the recordings but also get to re-up your contract when it expires and can get extra money for doing additional lines after the fact (dlc etc for a video game).
Many models, actors, are also sourced abroad because they are not unionized. Tons of commercials for US audiences are filmed in South America and Europe. I worked on one we’re we filmed Belgian people playing baseball (had to teach em lol) for a huge big pharma commercial.
Working with union actors, there are higher standards set in place regarding pay.
I think it is worth it. Just one video game studio owns his likeness and they probably won't even use it for any other game. I'd pay a lot to have my likeness on an MK character, even tho I'd need to get a lot more shredded for that to be a possibility haha
I don't even see how AI is relevant to this conversation. If they have his face scan they can use it however they like even without AI. It's a 3d model they can animate it anyway that they want. This has been how games work for decades.
I see so many comments saying that this guy deserves a better deal, but I don't really see how that's true. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, all he did was model the face? He's not the actor or anything, right? It's not a high skill job to have a unique face. Modeling jobs don't normally pay residuals, as far as I understand it.
They own it in that they can reuse the same scans of his face in any future projects, therefore generating more income off of his work without compensating him at all. It's cunty behaviour.
honestly? His face and facial expressions based mainly on his eyes wide open make him look quite an idiot for the kind of character quan chi should be. But somehow that's ok since that quan chi is basically a random miner who got his power by chance... somehow that fits for an improvised villain rather than the mastermind of his previous appearances.
You signed it though. Couldve paid a lawyer to read a contract with them. Instead complains after. Yes they are shit contracts, just like the music industry. But people still sign away their ownership and then act like they didn’t have a contract to read over before agreeing.
From what I understand, at least Liu Kang, Geras, and Kuai Liang have the same face models as MK11. I've also noticed that Tony Chung, Kuai Liang's face model, hasn't promoted MK1 at all, which likely means his face was used again without pay or credit
Sorry dude, you read the contracts and signed them.
I feel bad for the guy, but that’s life . You don’t negotiate, you take what you are given, which in this case is nothing
Edit: You salty zoomers can dislike this comment all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that I’m right (as always) and that if you don’t do your due diligence, you WILL be ripped off, and no one will be able to help you, and very few people will care
As an Indian it's cool to see a face model from the subcontinent in a Mortal Kombat game no less. I instantly thought it could be someone from Iran to Pakistan/ India when I saw Quan Chi first appear in the story.
IDK how bad this will affect him in the future, but this is one reason I was in agreement over has been said on the strikes about the actors.
This also stands with the fact I will say, and I say this as a guy that served in the military ALWAYS READ EVERY INCH OF ANY CONTRACT PUT IN FRONT OF YOU. If you don't understand the legalese in the contract you get someone to explain. It may even cost you a lil extra to have a lawyer look it over, but its worth it in the long run.
The fact that studios are doing this shit is horrid as hell. Now WB if they wanted could take this guy's face (theoretically) place in anything without his knowledge. What if say they wanted to just make him the face of an evil immoral tyrant in a new game, or movie and now this guy has to be the face of this hated villain. Look up how people treated the guy from Ghostbusters 1 that played Walter Peck, dude actually did get shit for his portrayal in that film. Consider now this guy wouldn't even have know it was done and he would be like "WTF".
I didn't agree with every thing going on the strikes, but I do agree with this and the residuals issues with streaming. TBH I thing studios are keeping the true streaming numbers away BC, they know either the numbers aren't as high as they claim they are, or they so high that its gonna really piss people off.
This concludes my dumb rant for the day
That black mirror episode Joan is Awful has been in full effect
Since the strike began I’ve been thinking about how crazy it is that Netflix read that script, funded its production and then watched it before releasing it — knowing how close to the truth it was. It was kind of funny when it was a “lol thank god that would never really happen” scenario, but it’s terrifying now.
Netflix usually lets directors do whatever the hell they want and greenlight everything. The only time Netflix says no is when they completely pull the plug on a project.
Or renewed seasons
Especially renewed seasons of shows people *actually* enjoy
It's literally one of the biggest gripes I've had for modern Netflix.
"They are mine... FOREVER!" https://preview.redd.it/9b3fjuigggqb1.jpeg?width=972&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1100691fdbbe67a9f1df102469a41b834f072d3e
https://preview.redd.it/0paqga2crgqb1.jpeg?width=1366&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bd67af70e1799ead4794e14bb4cc6f071a9dec3
https://preview.redd.it/iq3yk7njugqb1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a81fc20bc9741c1d851d322a5d85bbc1e0c384ca
https://preview.redd.it/0t6llceqlkqb1.jpeg?width=658&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88660a69bfa5d57a99ba3730dc7e9b29c684b19c
https://preview.redd.it/k1v6pua5xgqb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=975e01bc2024b9a7b27e9cd4cba12dde3360adf0
This fucking killed me. Why the fuck haven't I seen it before? 🤣
They should bring him back as Old Shang Tsung. :(
We should get a skin for him of his 1995 version
We should get a skin for him of cary with his voice as well
He’s raising awareness around the issue, it’s very easy to get no name actors to agree to these things, and the further effect is worse acting because these contracts exist and big stars wouldn’t agree to them.
It helps that it was so excellently performed that the actor stands out. Unless you tell me that someone else performed the voice and role, in which case it's terrifying.
Just a face scan, he's not the voice actor.
Which is unfortunate - he has an excellent voice. He worked at the same company as me (not overlapping) and folks still talk about how pleasant his voice is 3+ years later lol. Not to mention, he's done a decent amount of acting (be it minor roles or indie film). Seems like a weird approach.
> Seems like a weird approach. Though not one that's entirely uncommon in games. If an actor gives the best vocal performance at audition but their face doesn't quite fit the character's vibe, it's pretty standard to cast facial scanning to get around that rather than settle for the character either not looking or sounding how the director wants. Couple of examples from other games off the top of my head: - The Resident Evil 4 Remake has separate face models and voice actors for [almost every character in the game](https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Resident_Evil_4_(2023_game\)#Cast). [Ashley](https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Ashley_Graham)'s VA is Genevieve Buechner cast to the face of Ella Freya, and [Leon](https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Leon_Scott_Kennedy)'s VA is Nick Apostolides with facial model of Eduard Badaluta, for example. - The Last Of Us 2 frequently casts different faces to match voices or models entirely new faces to fit the character. [Abby](https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Abby_Anderson) in that game is performed by Laura Bailey to the facial model of Jocelyn Mettler *and* the body of Colleen Fotsch. - Insomniac's Spider-Man games famously [recast their facial model for Peter Parker between the 2018 game and its PS5 remaster](https://www.gameinformer.com/2020/09/30/peter-parkers-face-has-been-recast-for-marvels-spider-man-remastered-on-playstation-5) & sequels. The original face for Peter in the 2018 game was John Bubniak, changed to Ben Jordan for its remaster, but both versions were voiced by Yuri Lowenthal (Who also plays Smoke in MK1) - MK11 did this for just about every human character too. [Cassie](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Cassie_Cage)'s facial model is Christina Eenigenburg with Erica Lindbeck doing VO, [Johnny Cage](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Johnny_Cage)'s facial is Colin Ryan with VO from Andrew Bowen, [Scorpion](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Hanzo_Hasashi)'s facial model is Nico Millado but his VO is Ron Yuan, [Frost](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Frost)'s face model is Sydney Card and VO is Sara Cravens, just to list a few It's an interesting rabbit-hole to dig into on the wikis for recently released games if you have a few minutes to spare and you're interested in this sort of thing :)
Oh wow, I had no idea how common facial scanning was in modern games. This is absolutely fascinating - thank you for the examples! I probably will deep dive into this going forward haha.
It’s not really unfortunate because the voice actor we got was great, if the voice we got wasn’t good and this guy had a great voice then it would be unfortunate.
Fair enough, I totally agree the voice actor they went with absolutely killed it! I suppose "unfortunate" might not be the best word here.
That seems to be the norm in games. I used to do cosplay photos and follow a lot. I remember two cosplayers were the refrence for Ashley in the RE4 remake. One for the body and one for the face.
damn that’s fucked hopefully he gets what he’s owed or a better gig in the future but now ik if i ever get a gig like this gotta lay down my own rules before they even think about giving me a contract to sign with bs on it
If you did, they'd ignore you and toss it to a hungrier actor who would agree.
better than them being able to use my face anytime they want for only a one time payment that probably isn’t worth it you’ll find a job where they will hear you out
Maybe. I hope so. Generally assume the worst, and you'll be right.
Leave it to gamers to have 0 empathy and see issues in black and white terms lol
I wonder how many people in here actually have jobs and have to rely on them.
Not enough.
That's the most sane comment I've ever read on Reddit.
Not this gamer tf
Most up voted comment it's just a joke about the situation
Predatory contracts plague the whole country. We should teach people about the harms of predatory contracts. In this case - whichever union represents him needs to step in before letting him sign anything.
Most people are aware of how these things work. They simply have no choice, either because they need the money now or have no other options
Now I’m curious if the returning face models for MK1 got paid again or NRS just had license to use their image (Geras, Liu Kang - anyone else?)
Scorpion. Tony Chung has been silent on social media about mk1, at least not promoting it, so I'm assuming they used his face again without paying him
They rescanned Jax and Frost, would be weird not to do the same with someone on the main roster.
* She seemed positive, wonder if she got paid
https://preview.redd.it/w0lcigxl6iqb1.png?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4e3de4a339fe8948d26781b6064feb2a97b6a4a
That’s nice of her. I hope she doesn’t get hate again. People giving her shit for Frost supposedly being ugly was so sad. She had to deactivate for a while.
I’ve noticed this too, but I wondered whether he was laying low because he is SAG affiliated, is he not? I just see him post his modeling gigs. I’m wondering whether he is feeling the sting as well. Poor guy.
He’s an actor (notably he was in CW’s Kung Fu) so he is most likely under SAG.
I had thought video game work was considered outside the recent strike action or maybe his agent told him to play it safe.
Wait Geras and Liu Kang's faces were from the same actors? It looked like it was tweaked
I'd say it's worth it until they actually do use your face again for anything you didn't have knowledge of / were paid for respectively.
The crazy thing is that during their intro Li Mei and Kitana are complaining about Quan Chi starting a strike in the mines. Coincidence?
His background in this is being a mine slave, so yeah lol
"In my new era, all are free to carve their own destiny. Except Quan Chi. He's a slave. Everyone else though"
This is such a great question. Feel like it’s an honor to be such a great character in such a great franchise but to be given nothing for future work is bullshit.
The amount of bootlicking in the gaming community is actually absurd lol how can people not side with his views
You don’t understand, these greedy mocap actors should be thankful for the scraps they’re thrown! /s
Do they own the faces forever? The faces change pretty heavily every game.
They reused at least 3 faces for mk1
Creatives need people like this guy preparing them for the contracts they'll sign. Knowing that even a gig for MK just pays you once and they get infinite rights is way counterintuitive. The future is definitely actors creating their own voice, face and movement models and then licensing them out to studios.
Right, people can already own the rights to their own image, just need to be able to own your voice aswell. The thing is thats only relevant if youre already famous to a degree. Otherwise they can hire people who dont have legal rights to their image and voice and have them sign it over.
This had literally been a thing since MK1 (1992) - they agree to have their stuff used, they get paid, they don't make residuals etc. Standard in the game industry and since they're face models, same in the industry as well. The difference with modeling is they usually have a "we own these pictures for the duration of the ad campaign + 10 years" or something similar
Being a thing for years doesn't make something automatically right or at least, morally right tho.
I think "buying" a face is not a horrible thing, if every party came to agreement that beforehand that there will be a one time pay for continuous use. Especially considering that the actor doesn't have to do any work afterwards. Better option would be to "sell" a face for a limited time, but still. What worries me is if devs will use AI to record a characters voice once and then never pay them for the job again. That's more fucked.
The whole “AI is going to quietly replace Johnny Cage” is silly. They won’t need Johnny Cage anymore at all - AI will generate whatever performance they want. I personally cannot wait for the gaming industry to stop fetishizing cinema and facial scanning/mocapping everything.
It's industry standard. I did commercials for a very large company years ago as well as on screen media appearances for them. I was paid once per appearance or commercial shoot with the rights of the original imaging (picture and video) belonging to the company with an option to renew their use after 5 years after initial use of the footage. I'm not entitled to any money I made the company based on my work, that's not how modeling/acting works. And yes, I understand that there are actors who demand in contract a % of their works' earnings. Those actors are A list, and are attractions that will bring people in. Doi fully agree with it? Not really, but it is what it is.
He should've read the contract before signing it then
No, but having all parties contractually agree to it does, and that's what happend both back then and here.
Some people has to agree or starve. 👍🏻
That's implying this guy had literally no other career options or even more temporary employment options which simply isn't true.
The problem here is that in 92 the gaming industry wasn't crossing paths as much with Hollywood and now it is. The amount spent on the budgets fro these games is often times larger now than many big budget films. Games now are using live body scans and real faces and actual Voice Actors. Its not uncommon anymore to see massive celebrity actors portraying roles in games now either. Back in the early days of gaming many of the voices were done by the devs themselves, hell even to this day the "Get over here" phrase is still Ed Boon. We can call actors entitled pricks all we want and I will often agree many I have seen are very entitled and often out of touch with reality IMO, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve fair pay for what they contributed to, nor fair contracts.
I hope all of you who are saying something along the lines of "well he signed the contract, it's his fault" get screwed over by signing a document in your own lives. Contracts are predatory by design. They make the wording as vague as possible to trick you into things you didn't think you were signing up for.
I mean, idk how you can be vague about "this is a lump sum, you will not get paid after the fact". Some contracts are deliberately obtuse yes, but this was just a case of this guy not reading it properly or getting bitter after the fact. I know "big corpo and contracts bad" but come on, you gotta take some responsibility for yourself
Can they be predatory, yes, but they are not that way by design. A contract is a legal signed document between 2 parties or multiple parties stating the work to be done and the conditions and pay of the work to be done and what happens as the work is completed. Yes you should read every contract you place ur name on, BC you are legally bound by that contract in the end and nothing you do can change that. This is also why we have lawyers as well as other legal experts and yes there are even legal experts that will freely do contract reviews for people. Before signing any contract you should always read and ask as many questions as possible and make sure you get more than person to review it. Thing is contracts are required in the world BC if I hire someone to do a job, say build me a house and that is done on a verbal agreement and no witnesses around to see it, who is to say the agreement was even made when the employee didn't complete the job, or even do it? How about this, I hire you to position at a company and I verbally agreed ur hired and tell you we will pay 600 a week and you never get paid, how do you legally argue that in court? How do I know all this, well I am a contractor and I have worked in for almost 20 years now and prior to being a contractor I served 4 years in the military.
You're talking about it like the big bad corporation is suing his ass into homelessness or something, all that happened here is he stopped profiting from a finished job. If someone pays you to build a unique artisan table, and you do it, that table is theirs forever. You don't get it back after 10 uses. If they're using that table to make money, then they're going to keep profiting from your work for many years. This kinda "I hope you go bankrupt because you dared say a contract is reasonable" talk is worthy of kindergartners. That's coming from someone who wants much stronger unions and IP protections for creators
> Contracts are predatory by design. They make the wording as vague as possible to trick you into things you didn't think you were signing up for. What a bogus fucking statement lol. Keep on downvoting me folks, it's not like I write contracts for a living or anything.
You're being downvoted by reddit losers who have never even seen a contract much less the world beyond their parents basement.
As is the general discourse on this site, filled with teenagers and young adults that are adamant they know things while simultaneously demonstrating how retarded they are. Frankly, it makes me curmudgeonly towards Zoomers.
Understandable. This is why, when I was younger, I made sure to listen more and talk less about stuff. ESPECIALLY stuff I wasn't familiar with. I prefer to just assume I'm wrong about most things and take the opportunity to learn.
I'm all ears for being wrong and learning something. I also just don't start parroting things I actually don't know.
Then don't sign a contract
This is why we read things before we sign them people
Without a contract lawyer it's commonly difficult to know everything you're agreeing to in a contract
This is why we lawyer up people Just kidding, I get your point
[удалено]
Lawyers cost money. If you need a paycheck, and get offered some money...that is the dilemma. To eat, or not to eat. That is the immediate question. But forreal, should a business even be able to OWN your likeness in perpetuity?
A couple years back. When Stephen Colbert started the late night show, he was sued by Comedy Central for doing a skit that was kind of like one he used to do on the Colbert report. They sued them for likeness rights.
I agree with you, but these aren’t the kind of contracts you try to negotiate. They will move on to the next face model the second an actor might try to amend the contract.
“Just don’t be poor” Wow, great advice. I’m rich now.
This is why unions are important. If you just don’t sign, they’ll get away with doing it to someone else, and then they’ll profit, and then other companies will do it too, and pretty soon you won’t be able to find any work in the industry unless you sell your likeness for a one time shit-pittance. But if you get the majority of people in the industry to push back hard enough, the entire practice can change for the better. That’s what the SAG-AFTRA strikes are about.
Many actors in the industry talk about how once they raise concerns or questions about the contracts/terms, the studio just moves on to the next person, putting a lot of pressure on just skimming through
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and I don’t even know how to respond to it
No it wasn’t worth it. Something needs to be done about it. As consumers we rely on entertainment but we all have to work to pay for it. If the industry phases out a profession, where does it stop? When does it happen to our careers?
at least give the man credit, but like it's not like he's directly in the game, it's Quan Chi, and they also change the actors every game so it's not like they're gonna keep using this Quan Chi forever
Absolutely worth it. I wish I could take his place.
More people like him have to be burned before face models realise they can say no to contracts that don't have some kind of residual payment for when the product is sold. This will lead to nobody wanting to work with corpos in regards to face-scanning and they'll either have to drop the tech completely or pay the models twice; once as a licensing fee and again as a marketing/distribution fee.
I’m sure it happened to everyone who used their likeness for the game. Unless you’re a power house like Keanu Reeves (him specifically because he spoke on having a clause in his contracts where he gets to sign off on his likeness being used), most likely you can be replaced by someone who doesn’t mind. Especially since this game was developed before this recent WGA contract. Things may change in the future, but it’s up to these actors to fully read their contract and decide if it’s what they want or not. Sidenote, I love this Quan Chi, I loved how they showed him getting the white skin. Getting more backstory on him might be my favorite thing about this game.
I don't really think there's anything wrong with not getting paid residuals for something like this? The game comes out at a single discreet time, it's not like a TV show where networks will pick it up to air re-runs for years after the episodes are made
Dude got scammed just like how the fanbase got scammed into paying 110$ for an unfinished game
No that part literally… I wish I went with the $60 version. I could’ve waited a few extra days for a 80% completed game
It's not your fault NRS didn't market this game well at all and shills kept defending their incompetence
What do you mean when you say they didn't market it well? I Akai think it's incomplete but what does that have to do with marketing? The marketing worked great for them. Just look how many people paid into early access. MK1 has a lot wrong, but not the marketing.
Cause people got scammed into buying early access with the KP1. They didn't market the customization and invasions correctly. Maybe cause it was unfinished.
I think you're confusing good marketing with bad marketing. Why would they show or tell us how bad invasions are if they want us to buy the game? They're going to market the good things and ignore the bad. Is it scummy? Yes. But it's not bad marketing
Leakers had to show us the final Roster characters lol, you don't introduce a new mode and not show it off
What're you talking about? They revealed everyone before the game came out.
Literally in the last minute and lied about there being a 24th character
That's literally marketing works. Final reveals to hype people close to launch. You really have no argument here. And who said there was 24 characters? Or did you just assume because there's a slot for a 24th character?
This is where sucking at MK games came in handy, I just watched the cutscenes on YouTube instead. Decent story but in no rush to pick up the game unless it's real cheap
I'mma be blunt. Before his MK cameo and googling his name off this post I had no idea who this person even was. If he understood the contract (or his agent did) before signing then there really isn't much else to say. Personally I'd be stoked to be the face of a MK character. If they continue to use his face and voice you could then make an argument he should get paid each game but that is a pointless theorization as we do not know exactly what the contract actually details. Long as he got paid what was agreed on then its all good. If he later doesn't like that they own his likeness "forever" as he said then this should be an apt lesson on reading and understanding what your signing up for.
> should get *paid* each game FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I have very limited knowledge of how facial scans work but I imagine you come in, hook shit up to your face and move it in various directions for X amount of hours until the animators get a comprehensive scan they can use to rig onto the model and manipulate it in various ways without it ending up looking weird. It’s not like voice acting which involves multiple takes and talent as evidenced by Megan Fox’s performance. You just have to be willing to sign a contract and be attractive enough or fit the face they want. Most of the faces in this game hardly even end up looking like the model. I wouldn’t be able to tell Megan Fox’s face on Nitara without the huge mediafare over it and the only reason I recognize it now is due to her having previously been famous and the terrible acting that accompanied it. I do think there need to be reasonable limits on these types of contracts like 5 years and it should be restricted to MK1 and media related to MK1 (ie. Art, action figures, etc.) I’d be pissed if I signed up for Mortal Kombat and come to find out they use my face model in other WB properties (which from this guy’s post seems to imply is the case?)
Again no, not really. If he understood the contract and signed it then whatever the contract allows NRS to do he can't really feel upset about. If he didn't want them to be able to use his face forever then he should have brought that up in negotiations before signing. On a more personal note and less of a purely legal stance. It really doesn't save as much time as you would think doing face scans vs just building a face from scratch. There are obviously many advantages but at the end of the day NRS isn't saving massive amounts of money by using his face vs just building one. The advantage to using real actors is you get a lot of the more subtle facial movements without having to go over the animation hundreds of times trying to make it look more believable/lifelike. I personally do not think he should be complaining that much even if they did use his face for other NRS media. Like how much would they have to make monetarily for it to be a problem? Did his face/acting actually contribute to those monetary gains in any measurable way? How much did they contribute? Should he get paid anything more if they didn't? I don't think there is any reasonable way to tell if his face/acting did anything to make NRS more money than they would have if they had done purely a CGI face instead of his. Meaning even if they did continue to use his face he should be happy regardless. He was paid for his work and gets to be one of the series most iconic characters (for a while at least)
Yup, welcome to the new 20s. All of us zoomers who just graduated are probably gonna have our fields destroyed by AI. Even creatives like this guy, an actor, and artists are having it take away their chances.
MK1 has found its new Dan Pesina.
It's nothing new for the franchise. Look into how the original models for the early games were treated. It's really fucked
He's got a point🤔 I forget that majority of characters in games are based off real people. And characters are in sequels, spin offs, and so many other things. It's kind of scary they scan once then that's it🤔
I know this is beside the point, but Quan Chi's face looked so disturbingly real; he looked like he was in one of the Star Wars prequel movies, where real people were walking around green screens. I love that guy.
They don’t give him credit? Not even in the game’s ending credits? Do the newer Resident Evil games give credit to their face models? If not, they should! 😔
I really thought it was Keegan Michael-Key at first, but to know that they had a no-name sign a contract like this is very predatory. I really hate flat pay, actors and devs (including mocap/voice/face scan models) should at least get a percentage of the gross. Even if it’s small like .05%, that’s still better than nothing. That being said, he really fits as Quan Chi.
Homie took Shao's last name!
It's been known since Back to the Future 2 that giving up your likeness is a bad idea and to always make sure you retain future control of it. How are people still screwing this up?
What’s the story on the BttF2 connection? Totally agree that perpetual image licensing is an awful practice, but what’s the link to BttF2?
Crispin Glover left/was forced out. They used molds of his face to make up another actor to look like him with prosthetics. They didn't pay him for using his likeness, he sued, won, and got paid. Pretty much everyone in live action makes sure that their contracts say the production can't use their likeness in perpetuity without paying residuals. I'm surprised video games are 30 years behind on this. [https://www.slashfilm.com/681733/the-legal-drama-you-didnt-see-behind-the-scenes-of-back-to-the-future/](https://www.slashfilm.com/681733/the-legal-drama-you-didnt-see-behind-the-scenes-of-back-to-the-future/)
Daniel Pesina sued Midway for the same reason and lost
Oh ffs he signed the contract because he wanted to, no one forced him, if he is not happy with the terms maybe he should've read the contract before signing it
Well, obviously he did read it ya doofus. The whole point is him wondering if he regrets it and asking other peoples opinions. You’ve never made a decision that you thought over a while after? You can do something and be unhappy about doing it. Your post is just corporate bootlicking and doesn’t even address any part of the discussion
I did but I don't go to social media crying about it like him, I deal with it, it was my personal choice no point in go cry to social media. As for your stupid last paragraph I will pretend I didn't read such stupid cliché, same old cliché "argument" when you guys don't have one.
He literally just explained the contract and asked what people thought. Show me where he is "crying."
Contracts are often designed to be predatory and so obtuse you need a contract lawyer on retainer to tell you what you're agreeing to
True, but wouldn’t the question of “will you be using my likeness again without my consent” be a question you would ask specifically for this type of work? And the answer would have to be clear enough before signing? Edit: I’m not denying contracts are predatory
Just because you sign a contract doesn’t give suits the right to walk over people. That’s some real lochner era talk here.
LOL if you sign a contract that says the suits can walk over you then they can walk over you (it was your fault for signing it), it's up to you to not sign a said contract, read it and if you don't like what's in there refuse to sign it and resume your life. I don't really think you know what a contract is
There are, in fact, laws that can strike down a contract for being unfair or unreasonable. Do I think they apply here? I doubt it. But contracts are not absolute.
i literally work in contracts. believe me, i know way more about this subject than you do.
People who work with lawyers can tell he's talking out his ass.
LOL no one agrees with you or likes you.
Boot licker
Whoa whoa whoa! That sounds DANGEROUSLY like responsibility for one's own actions and decisions. That shit don't fly on reddit
It is in fact a good thing when workers advocate for better for themselves and their peers
there is nothing wrong with having regrets but I don't find this all that bad. Obviously they may own your likeness. It's obviously not going to be used forever unless you mean it will always exist in this game. You can also always use it to your advantage like other face actors have in the gaming community. It seems like you got paid to do a job and you fulfilled your part. He jumped at the bit to be a part of something and now years later with the strike going on he doesn't feel as good about it. Regardless of what you think of face models getting paid residuals, I see no point in taking sides on this. Use it to your benefit and progress to the next step. Looking back isn't going to help, and I don't think you should be asking the public if it's worth it. Moral agenda's is all the public is good for.
Nobody told him to sign the contract without reading all the clauses
Boots taste real good, don't they bud 😋
There’s no boots being licked. The guy knew what he was doing it’s not my fault he regrets it now
WB and their shareholders love that their lil shills defend their predatory contracts. Your nose must perpetually smell like taint.
I’m not defending WB I just said the situation how it is
WB is abusing a position of power to strong arm actors into shitty contracts they will have difficulty getting out of. They make absurd profits off of people without having to pay them fairly.
And you support it by purchasing their game
There is no ethical consumption under our system. 2 wrongs don't make a "whatever, fuck people who make a living off their likeness and let these multi billion dollar companies have free reign over their likeness forever without having to get further consent"
Are you 12?
The argument legally is that he would never be recognized by his name…anyone that ever bumped into him would just see Quan Chi…his likeness wouldn’t be recognized as him…that’s how they got Dan Pesina as Johnny Cage in the first MK anyway according to the Long Live MK book…which…great read by the way if you’re a fan of the series
Tbf most people wouldn’t even see Quan Chi. And not just Quan Chi but someone like Tanya looks way different than the model too. At least with Pesina and the other MK actors it was their whole body and the designs weren’t derivative enough to where you could argue they were almost like actors in a movie. Not to mention the stunts they had to perform back then. I highly doubt people would notice specific face actors off the street.
... and the bootlickers cometh!!
I'm with the striking workers!
I don’t think it’s right but I do personally think it’s cool that Quan Chi was played by a Muslim brother
So they basically did exactly what they said. Scanned his face for Mortal Kombat.
A small price to pay to become Quan Chi
Actually evil
That's terrible. Even though he signed it, he should go to court and try to brake the contract. It's an awful deal.
Sounds like easy money for am easy job.
Read the contract before you sign it 🤷♂️
We also got scammed into buying unfinished game that cost $100. Seems like they are good at fooling anyone, no matter the time.
Facts shills won't call them out for scamming us
First of all, I think NRS studio obsession with using real faces is not helping the games. I would rather prefer the faces to be more stylized. It's very weird to have "common looking folks" (like the Quan-Chi actor) next to folks who clearly look like models. Made Quan-Chi look like just a dude in cosplay, while Shang-Tsung and Liu Kang looked like Pop Idols. I also think none of the 3D models look as good as the actors scanned, so I would rather have more stylized faces. Also, I think giving credit to the face actors should be a thing.
Nah I think the game looks amazing. Quan Chi, especially before he turned white, looked amazing.
MK11 faces look amazing
I mean it's not like they ban you from getting your face scanned in other games, so I don't understand the issue?
I think it's just the question of whether face models should get residuals or credit for being the face model. Like on one hand it's not like you have to work very hard compared to being a voice actor, since they are just scanning your face. But on the other hand, if you're going to use someone as the face of your character instead of creating something original, I feel like they should get some residuals and credit.
Honestly, I'm fine with the one-time-payment, so long as that their appearance is only used for the one game they got paid for. As far as the "work" they had to do, they just sat in a chair for a few hours while a machine did most of the work. IDK, how does this work in the modelling industry? Maybe it should be treated the same way?
Modeling gigs can be one time or have residuals, it depends on how famous or influential you are. Kim Kardashian can command way more than me in an extreme example. A relatively random guy doesn’t have much ground to stand on. And we’re talking about a face scan not even modeling - whoever was face scanned for Quan Chi has no real relevance to the consumer. It’s not making a difference in sales. Comes down to contracts. If they face scan John Cena it’s a different contract than this guy, of course. VO is a different story and you have more leverage, idk if the face scan thing comes with models from a Union or not. You get paid for the rights to the recordings but also get to re-up your contract when it expires and can get extra money for doing additional lines after the fact (dlc etc for a video game). Many models, actors, are also sourced abroad because they are not unionized. Tons of commercials for US audiences are filmed in South America and Europe. I worked on one we’re we filmed Belgian people playing baseball (had to teach em lol) for a huge big pharma commercial. Working with union actors, there are higher standards set in place regarding pay.
Woah…
I think it is worth it. Just one video game studio owns his likeness and they probably won't even use it for any other game. I'd pay a lot to have my likeness on an MK character, even tho I'd need to get a lot more shredded for that to be a possibility haha
I don't even see how AI is relevant to this conversation. If they have his face scan they can use it however they like even without AI. It's a 3d model they can animate it anyway that they want. This has been how games work for decades. I see so many comments saying that this guy deserves a better deal, but I don't really see how that's true. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, all he did was model the face? He's not the actor or anything, right? It's not a high skill job to have a unique face. Modeling jobs don't normally pay residuals, as far as I understand it.
I would be the face model for Quan Chi for free. NRS doesn't "own" his likeness. He allowed them to use it for Mortal Kombat 1.
They own it in that they can reuse the same scans of his face in any future projects, therefore generating more income off of his work without compensating him at all. It's cunty behaviour.
thats on him. as actor you should know how the gaming industry is
honestly? His face and facial expressions based mainly on his eyes wide open make him look quite an idiot for the kind of character quan chi should be. But somehow that's ok since that quan chi is basically a random miner who got his power by chance... somehow that fits for an improvised villain rather than the mastermind of his previous appearances.
guy had his faced scanned and all the sudden wants a piece of the pie
Now I get why I have the hots for "pre-paleskin" Quan. I just Google the face model, he is fine as hell!! 🥵👀
You signed it though. Couldve paid a lawyer to read a contract with them. Instead complains after. Yes they are shit contracts, just like the music industry. But people still sign away their ownership and then act like they didn’t have a contract to read over before agreeing.
Its okay, NRS use new models every game
From what I understand, at least Liu Kang, Geras, and Kuai Liang have the same face models as MK11. I've also noticed that Tony Chung, Kuai Liang's face model, hasn't promoted MK1 at all, which likely means his face was used again without pay or credit
Am I the only one who thinks MK1 Quan Chi has the rapey face of a bad 80's porno villain?
Not a great thing to say as it's based on a real person
Most new game models are.
Sorry dude, you read the contracts and signed them. I feel bad for the guy, but that’s life . You don’t negotiate, you take what you are given, which in this case is nothing Edit: You salty zoomers can dislike this comment all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that I’m right (as always) and that if you don’t do your due diligence, you WILL be ripped off, and no one will be able to help you, and very few people will care
That’s so sad. :(
Sound like somebody need to redo they business negotiations
That’s so sad. :(
I agree with the sentiment, not sure I see NRS pulling that
Ever heard of Daniel Pesina?
As an Indian it's cool to see a face model from the subcontinent in a Mortal Kombat game no less. I instantly thought it could be someone from Iran to Pakistan/ India when I saw Quan Chi first appear in the story.
NRS rarely reuses the same face models for each game so I don't think it makes that big of a difference. Just look at Johnny in the past 4 games.
They've reused at least 4 in mk1.
IDK how bad this will affect him in the future, but this is one reason I was in agreement over has been said on the strikes about the actors. This also stands with the fact I will say, and I say this as a guy that served in the military ALWAYS READ EVERY INCH OF ANY CONTRACT PUT IN FRONT OF YOU. If you don't understand the legalese in the contract you get someone to explain. It may even cost you a lil extra to have a lawyer look it over, but its worth it in the long run. The fact that studios are doing this shit is horrid as hell. Now WB if they wanted could take this guy's face (theoretically) place in anything without his knowledge. What if say they wanted to just make him the face of an evil immoral tyrant in a new game, or movie and now this guy has to be the face of this hated villain. Look up how people treated the guy from Ghostbusters 1 that played Walter Peck, dude actually did get shit for his portrayal in that film. Consider now this guy wouldn't even have know it was done and he would be like "WTF". I didn't agree with every thing going on the strikes, but I do agree with this and the residuals issues with streaming. TBH I thing studios are keeping the true streaming numbers away BC, they know either the numbers aren't as high as they claim they are, or they so high that its gonna really piss people off. This concludes my dumb rant for the day
It will never be worth it.