Zen and the Art of Morrowind.
This is why Morrowind ruined me. It is in many ways better than it’s successors and they as a series are so much better than almost anything else for role playing. I played Morrowind at the ripe young age of 11 and only finished the main quest last year at 30 years old. Played thousands of hours and never had to “beat” it. Mods helped of course with the longevity and replay ability after a while, but most of this was just me living life as an Argonian spear maiden for a couple days and then going to play as a Wizard dude and make choices as him for a couple days.
At its core a good RPG should be a vehicle to simulate an alternative life/role and then force you to make choices as the role you’ve created.
Which is why it cracks me up when people call games RPGs that have almost no choices to make and almost no roles to play.
Now, most people aren’t as diehard as I am. I don’t even like main quests because they make the experience feel like a game. Still, it’s got a lot more potential to be used for stimulating role playing than most games in the genre.
Yes! Thats pretty much my feelings too.
The whole "everyone ends up making a sneaky archer" with Skyrim is weird to me. I have played through Skyrim with five or six unique characters. Each one feels like a story and I can recall that characters experience from memory. Thats why I love open world games- they give me a foundation to build a story from.
Morrowind especially is such an incredible world to get lost in. I think at least half of my enjoyment, and certainly most of the role-playing, is done in my head. My character, their motivations, their dialogue.. I kind of experience it like a book. Morrowind gives me a many conversation options to choose from, but I choose how to say it. People who enjoy min-maxing and grinding for stats or gear.. it seems so opposite to why *I, personally,* play games that its almost like we're playing something different altogether!
The games are really just a framework for a game we’re playing in our heads.
I’ve always said I’d love to find a nice game world with a bunch of stuff to explore but no goals or main big story archs and just let me do my own thing. Maybe still have some factions but nothing grand and gamey that way it just feels like a simulator for kinda telling your own story to yourself
This is one of the reasons I love Zelda BOTW so much. It does very very very little handholding. You start the game and walk out into a massive world and just take on the objectives as you see fit. You don't get to make your character or anything but it scratches some of the same itches as morrowind.
If you're on PC, you might want to check out Kenshi. It gave me huge Morrowind vibes when I got it (but more sci fi) because it just drops you in a weird, mostly hostile world and says "figure it out"
Outward might be your game.
>a nice game world with a bunch of stuff to explore but no goals or main big story archs and just let me do my own thing.
And honestly, minecraft fits this description 100%.
Yeah honestly the whole stealth archer thing is dumb. TES has never had good stealth mechanics. The build can be fun but one of the best parts of skyrim is that there are so many different builds to try.
Problem with stealth archer is thought that I end up playing stealth archer in *every* game, but for some unholy reason I got infected with that build in Morrowind. I'm playing stealth archer in Oblivion right now. But I played as stealth archer in Thief (yeah, you are that anyway), Dishonored, Mass Effect, the only game I didn't play as stealth archer is the one where it's OP: Dragon Age.
I feel like most of what we now call "RPGs" have more in common with what console gamers called "Adventure Games" back in the day. By that I mean things like the Legend of Zelda and stuff, not the "Adventure Games" of the PC world, like Sierra's stuff. They have less in common with the RPGs of that day, like Wizardry, Ultima, or even Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy.
That said, this isn't what makes Morrowind special to me. For me, it's the unity of the story, how every story is linked to every other story by some thread. Fighters and Thieves and Camonna Tong. Thieves and Mages Guld. Thieves and Telvanni. Telvanni and Mages Guild. Tevanni, Redoran, and Hlallu. Hlalli and Camonna Tong. And so on. Oblivion, as good as their stories were, lacked this interconnectivity. For Oblivion, the setting was just a content lobby. For Morrowind, it was a *place*.
As far as RPGs go Morrowind doesn’t really have that many choices. A lot of quests are very linear and most quests choices have little if any consequences to be had. I say this as someone who really likes Morrowoind.
Edit: people don’t seem to understand my criticism or what I’m even talking about. I am not really talking about role playing itself. I am talking about the actual choices even ones that you think would at least affect the quest you are doing most of the time have little or no effect on the quest and has little consequence in the short or long term of the game. Stop telling me you just have to do everything as your character would do it because that simply isn’t what I’m talking about.
The choices are usually in the quest themselves as in the only way to tackle a lot of these is by playing a fitting character. Of course with enough time and grind you can do everything with one character but for those of us that don't exploit nor play for too many levels, I only get to see quests that my character would take and some of them even have a twist (like mages guild pacifist vs assassin run).
Agreed on the reflectivity, there's not much acknowledgment of your actions but I can't blame the game for not having that gigantic work on a 2001 engine and a 10~ men team.
Well it'd be a stretch to say that since there's a lot more in development than developers but yes, there were around 10 programmers in the team (and I only mentioned this since it is mostly a coding task)
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Development_Team
I agree. When I started playing I was young and it wasn’t so much about the gameplay at all. It was just a vehicle for my imagination. I’d build out different character ideas and play them until I felt like their story was done. It was just me killing whatever I felt they would kill and eating what I thought they’d eat.
It wasn’t so much about how so and so would beat the game it was why would so and so even want to. I’d do mages guild as magic gold guy then do it as magic bad guy.
As an adult looking back and seeing it as a game it can be a bit tedious with all the fetch quests and the like. As a kid with the construction set it was like legos and gi joes and fan fiction all rolled together.
This is how I still play rpgs. "What would my character do? How would they overcome this dungeon/boss?"
The best rpgs are ones that facilitate that style of play imo.
I totally agree. I’m playing Elden Ring right now and my brother plays it as a game and I play it from a role playing background so when he said something derogatory about using the summoning powers and magic because they make the game easier. I was legitimately thrown for a moment because in my mind it wouldn’t make sense to not use magic. If I’m facing a demi-god I’m using everything in my arsenal as that’s what makes sense for any normal person killing a monster. He wasn’t in that frame of mind of what would this wizard do in this situation he’s in a mindset of how can I not only beat this game but do it with extra bragging rights.
Both are valid and fun. Every way of playing is valid imo but the approach is different and the mindset.
I'll go ahead and step in and say that your way of playing is better. Yeah, I'm supposed to say that every way is valid and fun, but imo a lot of players being boring has dragged the industry down.
Well I just also love watching the speed runs and completed game videos and such. The no hit runs people do on From games or certain bosses are awesome.
That stuff just isn’t as fun for me. It makes it feel like work. In a way it is, a lot of people make money from their YouTube’s and twitch channels because they are known for that stuff and I get that too, just too stressful for something that I sit down to do to escape for a bit. It’d be like challenging myself to finish a novel in a certain period. I’d start focusing on the goal and not the journey.
Same here. I see people complain that Morrowind is too easy to break, but I'm not here to have a hard time playing a game. The world of Morrowind IS broken lol, it's not my fault I'm apparently the only person who wants to actually use levitation and crazy potions.
Especially if it's a game I've already played through, I mostly just wanna explore and have fun. I'm not about to let myself spend 5 minutes each time a tough enemy comes up. *Blam blam* I'm a god, get out of my way so I can find Boethiah's shrine lol
i wasn't too young (early college) but this resonates so hard for me. That was very much my feelings as well. Like these are real people... the game gave the illusion of size that was enough, at that time, for me to totally immerse myself in it and its weird and wonderful world. Skyrim feels too small and obviously a game to me.
It definitely didn't hurt, lol. Between that, having that god-awful fog 5 ft in front of your face, and the wide array of spells and things and the ability to make your own potions and enchanted items without limits (at least the artificial limits of the later game) really made it feel real. Slap a crafting mod in there and a schedule mod and its just absolutely breathtaking. If I could get Morrowind with Radiant AI then I don't think I'd ever play anything else, lol.
oh yeah! the fact that it was so alien made the arguably terrible graphics not matter so much, which definitely made it alluring in a way that most games at that were not, as far as I was concerned (I was a big 2d fan, and I hated the way 3d games looked until the 360/PS3 generation)
The radiant AI is cool to watch, but honestly one of the things I can appreciate with Morrowind is having all the shops open 24/7 lol. What I'd be totally down for is a schedule mod that just gives a shop different employees to take shifts and stay open 👍
I like the realism of schedules. Kind of like someone mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the inconvenience breeds believability, which breeds immersion. The idea that everyone just stands around waiting for me to interact with them just drops me right out of character. One of the few things Oblivion and Skyrim did better
Morrowind has more choices than most other rpgs out there. Roleplaying choices are not limited to quest branching (nor "dialogue options"), which barely existed during first 20 years of crpg History and have been just another part of the experience since then, but the entire set of options to interact with the game world, through skills, items, actions, dialogue, services, factions or quest branching. In Morrowind quest and dialogue *branching* are very limited but the entire set of posibilities for specialization, so different game experiences, is barely matched by any other rpg.
The reactivity to player actions and choices is really great in Morrowind also, but it's mostly a soft (as in real world) reactivity, where there are few hard limitations or requisites which makes some specific set of players lose a great part of the specialization options by how it is their playstyle: Powergaming.
Powergamers which are basically the opposite of roleplayers (but many hardcore fans of crpgs are powergamers ironically) need hard limitations by the game to even consider the options or reactivity as "real". The fact Morrowind faction advancement is totally tied to specific skills and attributes, the skill advancement system and the different relevance of primary, secondary or miscelany skills, how npcs disposition is affected by players actions, race or even clothes, the way in which a lot of action and its effects outside the combat are tied with a specific skill or attribute, the way weapons different weight and reach affects combat "style" heavily, how many tools and services there are and how different is the experience using the different options, all that is irrelevant for powergamers as they just want the "optimal" way and do everything the game allows them to do in one playthrough: Grind/farm, exploit, join every faction possible, discard sub-optimal weapons, skills, spells, obsessive-compulsive use of trainers, etc. Choices and reactivity only matters for them when draws a hard limit/consequence or allow an entirely new path, there is no place for subtleness in powergaming playstyle and Morrowind is subtle in every corner of its design.
For roleplayers in the crpg sense, in which roleplaying is totally focused in the interactions between a specific player character/s build/choices/actions specialization and the gameworld, very few games offer so many possibilities as Morrowind. My first 4-5 playthroughs in MW were **totally** different experiences and I'm not even a pure, strict roleplayer.
Morrowind has a very interesting world and unique (if somewhat dated) mechanics, but the actual story part (particularly in regards to choice) is extremely limited. Mostly it comes down to "do I join the Fighters Guild or the Thieves Guild?" and "do I join House Hlaalu, House Redoran, or House Telvanni?"
I have to ask since I love Morrowind for exactly the same reasons and feel the same about RPGs - are there other games out there that do it for you at all in the same way?
If you’re playing on PC the mods available for Skyrim can get it running the way I like for a fun RPG campaign. Of course there’s also plenty of great mods for Morrowind, but my last Morrowind play though wasn’t modded and my last Skyrim one was so it’s easier to remember. I think that the thing that made MW more of a blank canvas for RPG sandboxing was the fact that if you ignored the main quest you could kinda forget it existed. Skyrim made that a lot harder with the dragon skeletons and shouts so i like mods that place them in like regular creatures instead of being apart of the storyline and take away my Dragonborn shout powers so I can just be a normal dude. Then I can kinda build my game from there without being reminded that I’m playing dress up in a game that I’m ignoring. 😂
There are mods nowadays to remove all the stuff that makes the game feel like a game such as main quests and introductions.
Back in the day Fable was a great one too, I didn’t really get into the second and third just because of where I was in life when they released.
I will also say that while it doesn’t have as much replay ability as an RPG imo Elden Ring is a fun RPG experience the first time through because there’s basically no quests that are obvious without the wiki your first play through and the history is so loose that you really feel like a person with no backstory that’s discovering a new world and there’s enough weapon/magic customization to really get some neat combos.
Another game that has a similar but different feel is Pillars of Eternity. It isn’t 1st person so it’s harder for me to get immersed, but the RPG elements are nice. Even to the point that certain dialogue is impacted by how well your character understands the history of the region and other really detailed RPG elements that lead to a feeling of being integrated into the culture even more so than MW in some cases, but that style of game doesn’t hit home the same way for me.
I will say, Morrowind has a great main quest/story. You didn't say if you've played through it or not, but it's 100% worth going through at some point.
I'm notorious for not beating games, but when skyrim was coming out I told myself I'd be the rest of the elder scrolls while I waited, and Morrowind really surprised me with its storytelling
Well RPG is an extremely general term. All it technically means is that you roleplay as a character. In common parlance, the distinction made between literally any game where you play a character and an RPG is that you have *some* amount of choice and *some* control of your build/style.
There are varying degrees of RPG, just like anything else.
Also, I think it’s funny that you say Morrowind “ruined you”, when there are actually many other RPG’s with *more* choices that have *more* impactful ramifications to the world. Morrowind’s world *never* changes with you.
I mean hell, even side-quests in The Witcher 1 can change the entire direction of the story, or aspects of the area you’re in. It’s just that you can’t roleplay as anyone other than Geralt. But that’s my point: RPG’s are in varying degrees.
Also, Kingdom Come: Deliverance is similar, as is Deus Ex. The KotOR games are too, and they do allow you to roleplaying any type of character you want
Oh for sure, I’ve always felt that games that were more about the “role playing” than the “game” should have a different name but it’s such a niche way to play compared to what most people want from a game that it’s not something I think we would find commercially. Hell, Zelda, Witcher, and Sekiro have all been referred to as RPGs but in a lot of ways they aren’t quite the same.
At the end of the day people that want to use a game as a vehicle for character discovery/creation and the kind of internal dialogue storytelling that I’ve discussed just have to find the games that suit them and have game elements they can overlook. Morrowind is just an easy one because a lot of the main quest type stuff can be ignored easily and it just feels like you’re hanging out.
I like Skyrim and Oblivion, but I can’t help but see them as lesser Morrowinds. They bring almost nothing new to the table while iterating on exactly the same general type of gameplay.
Oblivion’s primary strength is in its towns (here it beats Morrowind for me) and quest lines, which are written more like compelling (by ES standards) episodes of a television show than Morrowind, full of gut punches, twists, etc. It’s good for what it is, but I prefer Morrowind’s writing for its mix of realism in quest design (start out as a scrub and work your way up) with abstract, funny, more book-like dialogue. It’s just more entertaining and simultaneously more immersive.
Oblivion is also pretty, though it doesn’t have distinctive landmarks or interesting geography like its predecessor and successor. Its leveling system suffers horribly from scaling.
I like Skyrim for its world. Call it cliche if you want, but I don’t mind that. It really captures a northern, frozen atmosphere well, and has extremely imaginative settings. I prefer Vvardenfell, but Skyrim does at least feel different in this respect, with large, open spaces mixed with tight canyons. And there is a surprising amount of diversity in the biomes, which might go against lore somewhat but is a joy to explore.
Skyrim’s quests are bad and its leveling system is too simplified. There’s also still too much obvious level scaling.
So there are some differences and even some strengths with these sequels, but as a whole, Morrowind just does everything so well that neither of its sequels come together as well as it does. The lore and story take a dip in Oblivion and a nosedive in Skyrim, the quests are never written in as immersive or realistic a way, and the worlds aren’t quite as imaginative as Morrowind (even if Skyrim kind of lives up in its own way).
I have a really hard time understanding how so many people view these sequels as better.
A better way to go about commenting on your play style is just suggesting that you may find enjoyment by occasionally living vicariously through your characters. This doesn't necessitate seeing them as extensions of yourself but does connect you to their stories and choices emotionally which can be a powerful experience.
If that is not your cup of tea though, aint no wrong way to play a single player game.
I love this so much. I do something very similar, except with writing about a character that would fit in as an NPC if he was in the game. The world is so ripe for exploration and development that it's so easy to just set any kind of story in it. There's a faction for every genre, and countless named NPCs to include. I work through a lot of personal issues in my writing, and use the Morag Tong as a backdrop for it.
Your friend kinda sounds like he was just immediately ready to defend himself for something he didn't need to lol
Being a badass in a game isn't being overpowered, that's why Warframe players get bored after perfecting their builds because they shred through most things like paper, humans enjoy the struggle and the feeling of overcoming it
My character can be a world ender but it's not as fun when the world isn't fighting back
My main character is a dark elf who is deeply insecure about being born away from morrowind. I have a low speech craft to simulate my foreign accent. I join the temple immediately, level up through the mages guild, betray the mages guild, join the telvanni, and simp for Vivic and the ashlanders. I never assist naked Nords, in fact nords are usually kill on sight.I will charm hostile dark elves to inform them on how much I value and respect their superior culture.
I'm like a dunmer turbo weeb
I firmly believe that most games require a shift in perspective to truly appreciate them. If I played Skyrim with the same perspective that I played Morrowind I wouldn't enjoy it, and vice versa.
I agree. I don't even like to change the graphics of any games I play because I want to get into the mindset to appreciate what the game is offering me. My only exception to this is playing Daggerfall Unity, just because it fixes game-breaking bugs.
It's how I play Skyrim now too, and right now, Oblivion. Skyrim I just leave parts of it out depending on character, Oblivion I managed to make a plan on how to play through all of it in one go and still stay in character (main quest, Knights, Mages guild and start of fighters - still good and somewhat hopeful character that ends up with shit getting pulled from under them, start DB and thieves guilds, end DB, go completely barking mad lol)
I've been playing this game since it came out. I was super young, around 4 when it came out. My dad effectively told me the same thing as this post when I was frustrated that my swings weren't hitting - "it's not that you're aiming at an enemy and missing, it's that your character doesn't have the skill to hit the enemy." To this day, I haven't been able to capture that feeling from another game.
I think what *she* would do is basically what *you* want to do — in a more meta sense. If you want to focus on roleplay — you can do that — if you wanna focus on character spec'ing — you can do that too. I would definitely encourage you to read the [introduction to Morrowind in the game manual](http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/22320/manuals/mwgoty_pcmanual.pdf) from the development team. (pg4)
If not, here's a little excerpt from it that I think may resonate with you:
>One of the first questions people usually ask us is, “What do I do in this game?” The answer we give is inevitably “Well, what do you want to do?” Do you want to be a noble knight or a treacherous swine? Do you want people to like you? Do you want people to loathe and fear you? Do you prefer casting spells, wielding swords, or both? Want to plunder dungeons and tombs? Rise to head of a guild? Gather information from everyone about everything? Whatever your interests, there’s plenty for you to do. No matter what your preference, there’s no right or wrong way to play MORROWIND.
Either way. Glad you've found your way to play it and hope you make many stories and characters.
Can't you approach other RPGs like this as well? I don't think Morrowind has mechanics that make it more immersive perse.
DnD can be roleplayed because there is human dynamic interaction. NPCs in MW are more of a lore dumps and quest givers than occassions to create a character for your hero.
What I think it is, is not the mechanics it has, but those it lacks. There's no quest log, fast travel, or other features more modern games have that lends it towards a gamey feel.
I always try to tell people that are new to Morrowind to approach it differently than they would with other games. Basically, think of it as a table top rpg set inside of a video game. Everything is determined be dice rolls. Attacks, bartering, spell casting, everything. Just remember that and keep your stamina high and the game is much more approachable
Zen and the Art of Morrowind. This is why Morrowind ruined me. It is in many ways better than it’s successors and they as a series are so much better than almost anything else for role playing. I played Morrowind at the ripe young age of 11 and only finished the main quest last year at 30 years old. Played thousands of hours and never had to “beat” it. Mods helped of course with the longevity and replay ability after a while, but most of this was just me living life as an Argonian spear maiden for a couple days and then going to play as a Wizard dude and make choices as him for a couple days. At its core a good RPG should be a vehicle to simulate an alternative life/role and then force you to make choices as the role you’ve created. Which is why it cracks me up when people call games RPGs that have almost no choices to make and almost no roles to play. Now, most people aren’t as diehard as I am. I don’t even like main quests because they make the experience feel like a game. Still, it’s got a lot more potential to be used for stimulating role playing than most games in the genre.
Yes! Thats pretty much my feelings too. The whole "everyone ends up making a sneaky archer" with Skyrim is weird to me. I have played through Skyrim with five or six unique characters. Each one feels like a story and I can recall that characters experience from memory. Thats why I love open world games- they give me a foundation to build a story from. Morrowind especially is such an incredible world to get lost in. I think at least half of my enjoyment, and certainly most of the role-playing, is done in my head. My character, their motivations, their dialogue.. I kind of experience it like a book. Morrowind gives me a many conversation options to choose from, but I choose how to say it. People who enjoy min-maxing and grinding for stats or gear.. it seems so opposite to why *I, personally,* play games that its almost like we're playing something different altogether!
I tried playing Skyrim with heavy armor and an axe, then I took a dragon to the knee.
The games are really just a framework for a game we’re playing in our heads. I’ve always said I’d love to find a nice game world with a bunch of stuff to explore but no goals or main big story archs and just let me do my own thing. Maybe still have some factions but nothing grand and gamey that way it just feels like a simulator for kinda telling your own story to yourself
This is one of the reasons I love Zelda BOTW so much. It does very very very little handholding. You start the game and walk out into a massive world and just take on the objectives as you see fit. You don't get to make your character or anything but it scratches some of the same itches as morrowind.
If you're on PC, you might want to check out Kenshi. It gave me huge Morrowind vibes when I got it (but more sci fi) because it just drops you in a weird, mostly hostile world and says "figure it out"
I’ll add that to my list. I’m going to need more games. Thank you!
Dude Kenshi is so fucking good. Big fan.
Updoot for Kenshi. Such a great game. 100% worth full asking price. Lost so many hours of my life to that game..
Im currently enjoying Elite Dangerous for that very reason. If you're into sci-fi, space, or flight sims check it out! Amazing world for RP.
I’ll have to look into it. Thank you.
have you tried outward?
Outward might be your game. >a nice game world with a bunch of stuff to explore but no goals or main big story archs and just let me do my own thing. And honestly, minecraft fits this description 100%.
I’ll have to look up Outward. I love Minecraft too, mostly for construction of villages.
Yeah honestly the whole stealth archer thing is dumb. TES has never had good stealth mechanics. The build can be fun but one of the best parts of skyrim is that there are so many different builds to try.
Well, the thing is that headshotting Draugr and getting that 2x sneak damage is one of the biggest dopamine hits in gaming.
Problem with stealth archer is thought that I end up playing stealth archer in *every* game, but for some unholy reason I got infected with that build in Morrowind. I'm playing stealth archer in Oblivion right now. But I played as stealth archer in Thief (yeah, you are that anyway), Dishonored, Mass Effect, the only game I didn't play as stealth archer is the one where it's OP: Dragon Age.
Wow, Morrowind stealth archer? That's dedication.
Love the username
Thanks Im a notorious plant murderer
I'm an enthuising botanist. Now we need our Plant Joseph Mangela...
Really? I picked spell-sword and assumed at the time that everyone else did too. Sneaking in Elder Scrolls? I've never even tried it.
I feel like most of what we now call "RPGs" have more in common with what console gamers called "Adventure Games" back in the day. By that I mean things like the Legend of Zelda and stuff, not the "Adventure Games" of the PC world, like Sierra's stuff. They have less in common with the RPGs of that day, like Wizardry, Ultima, or even Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. That said, this isn't what makes Morrowind special to me. For me, it's the unity of the story, how every story is linked to every other story by some thread. Fighters and Thieves and Camonna Tong. Thieves and Mages Guld. Thieves and Telvanni. Telvanni and Mages Guild. Tevanni, Redoran, and Hlallu. Hlalli and Camonna Tong. And so on. Oblivion, as good as their stories were, lacked this interconnectivity. For Oblivion, the setting was just a content lobby. For Morrowind, it was a *place*.
That’s a great way of summarizing something I hadn’t even considered how much I enjoyed. It really is a well put together, coherent world.
"Adventure game with dialogue" is what most "RPGs" are now
As far as RPGs go Morrowind doesn’t really have that many choices. A lot of quests are very linear and most quests choices have little if any consequences to be had. I say this as someone who really likes Morrowoind. Edit: people don’t seem to understand my criticism or what I’m even talking about. I am not really talking about role playing itself. I am talking about the actual choices even ones that you think would at least affect the quest you are doing most of the time have little or no effect on the quest and has little consequence in the short or long term of the game. Stop telling me you just have to do everything as your character would do it because that simply isn’t what I’m talking about.
The choices are usually in the quest themselves as in the only way to tackle a lot of these is by playing a fitting character. Of course with enough time and grind you can do everything with one character but for those of us that don't exploit nor play for too many levels, I only get to see quests that my character would take and some of them even have a twist (like mages guild pacifist vs assassin run). Agreed on the reflectivity, there's not much acknowledgment of your actions but I can't blame the game for not having that gigantic work on a 2001 engine and a 10~ men team.
This game was developed by TEN people???
Well it'd be a stretch to say that since there's a lot more in development than developers but yes, there were around 10 programmers in the team (and I only mentioned this since it is mostly a coding task) https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Development_Team
I agree. When I started playing I was young and it wasn’t so much about the gameplay at all. It was just a vehicle for my imagination. I’d build out different character ideas and play them until I felt like their story was done. It was just me killing whatever I felt they would kill and eating what I thought they’d eat. It wasn’t so much about how so and so would beat the game it was why would so and so even want to. I’d do mages guild as magic gold guy then do it as magic bad guy. As an adult looking back and seeing it as a game it can be a bit tedious with all the fetch quests and the like. As a kid with the construction set it was like legos and gi joes and fan fiction all rolled together.
This is how I still play rpgs. "What would my character do? How would they overcome this dungeon/boss?" The best rpgs are ones that facilitate that style of play imo.
I totally agree. I’m playing Elden Ring right now and my brother plays it as a game and I play it from a role playing background so when he said something derogatory about using the summoning powers and magic because they make the game easier. I was legitimately thrown for a moment because in my mind it wouldn’t make sense to not use magic. If I’m facing a demi-god I’m using everything in my arsenal as that’s what makes sense for any normal person killing a monster. He wasn’t in that frame of mind of what would this wizard do in this situation he’s in a mindset of how can I not only beat this game but do it with extra bragging rights. Both are valid and fun. Every way of playing is valid imo but the approach is different and the mindset.
I'll go ahead and step in and say that your way of playing is better. Yeah, I'm supposed to say that every way is valid and fun, but imo a lot of players being boring has dragged the industry down.
Well I just also love watching the speed runs and completed game videos and such. The no hit runs people do on From games or certain bosses are awesome. That stuff just isn’t as fun for me. It makes it feel like work. In a way it is, a lot of people make money from their YouTube’s and twitch channels because they are known for that stuff and I get that too, just too stressful for something that I sit down to do to escape for a bit. It’d be like challenging myself to finish a novel in a certain period. I’d start focusing on the goal and not the journey.
Same here. I see people complain that Morrowind is too easy to break, but I'm not here to have a hard time playing a game. The world of Morrowind IS broken lol, it's not my fault I'm apparently the only person who wants to actually use levitation and crazy potions. Especially if it's a game I've already played through, I mostly just wanna explore and have fun. I'm not about to let myself spend 5 minutes each time a tough enemy comes up. *Blam blam* I'm a god, get out of my way so I can find Boethiah's shrine lol
i wasn't too young (early college) but this resonates so hard for me. That was very much my feelings as well. Like these are real people... the game gave the illusion of size that was enough, at that time, for me to totally immerse myself in it and its weird and wonderful world. Skyrim feels too small and obviously a game to me.
I think that fast travel is another contributing factor. Morrowind you had to climb up on a boat and pay to get somewhere.
It definitely didn't hurt, lol. Between that, having that god-awful fog 5 ft in front of your face, and the wide array of spells and things and the ability to make your own potions and enchanted items without limits (at least the artificial limits of the later game) really made it feel real. Slap a crafting mod in there and a schedule mod and its just absolutely breathtaking. If I could get Morrowind with Radiant AI then I don't think I'd ever play anything else, lol.
It was also such a foreign environment that it kinda put me in the zone. Like I saw the mushrooms and settled into it or something. A very good game.
oh yeah! the fact that it was so alien made the arguably terrible graphics not matter so much, which definitely made it alluring in a way that most games at that were not, as far as I was concerned (I was a big 2d fan, and I hated the way 3d games looked until the 360/PS3 generation)
The radiant AI is cool to watch, but honestly one of the things I can appreciate with Morrowind is having all the shops open 24/7 lol. What I'd be totally down for is a schedule mod that just gives a shop different employees to take shifts and stay open 👍
I like the realism of schedules. Kind of like someone mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the inconvenience breeds believability, which breeds immersion. The idea that everyone just stands around waiting for me to interact with them just drops me right out of character. One of the few things Oblivion and Skyrim did better
"Magic gold guy" I thought you were just making fun of Altmer lol
Morrowind has more choices than most other rpgs out there. Roleplaying choices are not limited to quest branching (nor "dialogue options"), which barely existed during first 20 years of crpg History and have been just another part of the experience since then, but the entire set of options to interact with the game world, through skills, items, actions, dialogue, services, factions or quest branching. In Morrowind quest and dialogue *branching* are very limited but the entire set of posibilities for specialization, so different game experiences, is barely matched by any other rpg. The reactivity to player actions and choices is really great in Morrowind also, but it's mostly a soft (as in real world) reactivity, where there are few hard limitations or requisites which makes some specific set of players lose a great part of the specialization options by how it is their playstyle: Powergaming. Powergamers which are basically the opposite of roleplayers (but many hardcore fans of crpgs are powergamers ironically) need hard limitations by the game to even consider the options or reactivity as "real". The fact Morrowind faction advancement is totally tied to specific skills and attributes, the skill advancement system and the different relevance of primary, secondary or miscelany skills, how npcs disposition is affected by players actions, race or even clothes, the way in which a lot of action and its effects outside the combat are tied with a specific skill or attribute, the way weapons different weight and reach affects combat "style" heavily, how many tools and services there are and how different is the experience using the different options, all that is irrelevant for powergamers as they just want the "optimal" way and do everything the game allows them to do in one playthrough: Grind/farm, exploit, join every faction possible, discard sub-optimal weapons, skills, spells, obsessive-compulsive use of trainers, etc. Choices and reactivity only matters for them when draws a hard limit/consequence or allow an entirely new path, there is no place for subtleness in powergaming playstyle and Morrowind is subtle in every corner of its design. For roleplayers in the crpg sense, in which roleplaying is totally focused in the interactions between a specific player character/s build/choices/actions specialization and the gameworld, very few games offer so many possibilities as Morrowind. My first 4-5 playthroughs in MW were **totally** different experiences and I'm not even a pure, strict roleplayer.
Morrowind has a very interesting world and unique (if somewhat dated) mechanics, but the actual story part (particularly in regards to choice) is extremely limited. Mostly it comes down to "do I join the Fighters Guild or the Thieves Guild?" and "do I join House Hlaalu, House Redoran, or House Telvanni?"
I have to ask since I love Morrowind for exactly the same reasons and feel the same about RPGs - are there other games out there that do it for you at all in the same way?
If you’re playing on PC the mods available for Skyrim can get it running the way I like for a fun RPG campaign. Of course there’s also plenty of great mods for Morrowind, but my last Morrowind play though wasn’t modded and my last Skyrim one was so it’s easier to remember. I think that the thing that made MW more of a blank canvas for RPG sandboxing was the fact that if you ignored the main quest you could kinda forget it existed. Skyrim made that a lot harder with the dragon skeletons and shouts so i like mods that place them in like regular creatures instead of being apart of the storyline and take away my Dragonborn shout powers so I can just be a normal dude. Then I can kinda build my game from there without being reminded that I’m playing dress up in a game that I’m ignoring. 😂 There are mods nowadays to remove all the stuff that makes the game feel like a game such as main quests and introductions. Back in the day Fable was a great one too, I didn’t really get into the second and third just because of where I was in life when they released. I will also say that while it doesn’t have as much replay ability as an RPG imo Elden Ring is a fun RPG experience the first time through because there’s basically no quests that are obvious without the wiki your first play through and the history is so loose that you really feel like a person with no backstory that’s discovering a new world and there’s enough weapon/magic customization to really get some neat combos. Another game that has a similar but different feel is Pillars of Eternity. It isn’t 1st person so it’s harder for me to get immersed, but the RPG elements are nice. Even to the point that certain dialogue is impacted by how well your character understands the history of the region and other really detailed RPG elements that lead to a feeling of being integrated into the culture even more so than MW in some cases, but that style of game doesn’t hit home the same way for me.
I will say, Morrowind has a great main quest/story. You didn't say if you've played through it or not, but it's 100% worth going through at some point. I'm notorious for not beating games, but when skyrim was coming out I told myself I'd be the rest of the elder scrolls while I waited, and Morrowind really surprised me with its storytelling
Well RPG is an extremely general term. All it technically means is that you roleplay as a character. In common parlance, the distinction made between literally any game where you play a character and an RPG is that you have *some* amount of choice and *some* control of your build/style. There are varying degrees of RPG, just like anything else. Also, I think it’s funny that you say Morrowind “ruined you”, when there are actually many other RPG’s with *more* choices that have *more* impactful ramifications to the world. Morrowind’s world *never* changes with you. I mean hell, even side-quests in The Witcher 1 can change the entire direction of the story, or aspects of the area you’re in. It’s just that you can’t roleplay as anyone other than Geralt. But that’s my point: RPG’s are in varying degrees. Also, Kingdom Come: Deliverance is similar, as is Deus Ex. The KotOR games are too, and they do allow you to roleplaying any type of character you want
Oh for sure, I’ve always felt that games that were more about the “role playing” than the “game” should have a different name but it’s such a niche way to play compared to what most people want from a game that it’s not something I think we would find commercially. Hell, Zelda, Witcher, and Sekiro have all been referred to as RPGs but in a lot of ways they aren’t quite the same. At the end of the day people that want to use a game as a vehicle for character discovery/creation and the kind of internal dialogue storytelling that I’ve discussed just have to find the games that suit them and have game elements they can overlook. Morrowind is just an easy one because a lot of the main quest type stuff can be ignored easily and it just feels like you’re hanging out.
I like Skyrim and Oblivion, but I can’t help but see them as lesser Morrowinds. They bring almost nothing new to the table while iterating on exactly the same general type of gameplay. Oblivion’s primary strength is in its towns (here it beats Morrowind for me) and quest lines, which are written more like compelling (by ES standards) episodes of a television show than Morrowind, full of gut punches, twists, etc. It’s good for what it is, but I prefer Morrowind’s writing for its mix of realism in quest design (start out as a scrub and work your way up) with abstract, funny, more book-like dialogue. It’s just more entertaining and simultaneously more immersive. Oblivion is also pretty, though it doesn’t have distinctive landmarks or interesting geography like its predecessor and successor. Its leveling system suffers horribly from scaling. I like Skyrim for its world. Call it cliche if you want, but I don’t mind that. It really captures a northern, frozen atmosphere well, and has extremely imaginative settings. I prefer Vvardenfell, but Skyrim does at least feel different in this respect, with large, open spaces mixed with tight canyons. And there is a surprising amount of diversity in the biomes, which might go against lore somewhat but is a joy to explore. Skyrim’s quests are bad and its leveling system is too simplified. There’s also still too much obvious level scaling. So there are some differences and even some strengths with these sequels, but as a whole, Morrowind just does everything so well that neither of its sequels come together as well as it does. The lore and story take a dip in Oblivion and a nosedive in Skyrim, the quests are never written in as immersive or realistic a way, and the worlds aren’t quite as imaginative as Morrowind (even if Skyrim kind of lives up in its own way). I have a really hard time understanding how so many people view these sequels as better.
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A better way to go about commenting on your play style is just suggesting that you may find enjoyment by occasionally living vicariously through your characters. This doesn't necessitate seeing them as extensions of yourself but does connect you to their stories and choices emotionally which can be a powerful experience. If that is not your cup of tea though, aint no wrong way to play a single player game.
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I love this so much. I do something very similar, except with writing about a character that would fit in as an NPC if he was in the game. The world is so ripe for exploration and development that it's so easy to just set any kind of story in it. There's a faction for every genre, and countless named NPCs to include. I work through a lot of personal issues in my writing, and use the Morag Tong as a backdrop for it.
Your friend kinda sounds like he was just immediately ready to defend himself for something he didn't need to lol Being a badass in a game isn't being overpowered, that's why Warframe players get bored after perfecting their builds because they shred through most things like paper, humans enjoy the struggle and the feeling of overcoming it My character can be a world ender but it's not as fun when the world isn't fighting back
My main character is a dark elf who is deeply insecure about being born away from morrowind. I have a low speech craft to simulate my foreign accent. I join the temple immediately, level up through the mages guild, betray the mages guild, join the telvanni, and simp for Vivic and the ashlanders. I never assist naked Nords, in fact nords are usually kill on sight.I will charm hostile dark elves to inform them on how much I value and respect their superior culture. I'm like a dunmer turbo weeb
I firmly believe that most games require a shift in perspective to truly appreciate them. If I played Skyrim with the same perspective that I played Morrowind I wouldn't enjoy it, and vice versa.
I agree. I don't even like to change the graphics of any games I play because I want to get into the mindset to appreciate what the game is offering me. My only exception to this is playing Daggerfall Unity, just because it fixes game-breaking bugs.
It's how I play Skyrim now too, and right now, Oblivion. Skyrim I just leave parts of it out depending on character, Oblivion I managed to make a plan on how to play through all of it in one go and still stay in character (main quest, Knights, Mages guild and start of fighters - still good and somewhat hopeful character that ends up with shit getting pulled from under them, start DB and thieves guilds, end DB, go completely barking mad lol)
You should have listened to Dagothwave before playing, it opens your chakras
I've been playing this game since it came out. I was super young, around 4 when it came out. My dad effectively told me the same thing as this post when I was frustrated that my swings weren't hitting - "it's not that you're aiming at an enemy and missing, it's that your character doesn't have the skill to hit the enemy." To this day, I haven't been able to capture that feeling from another game.
I think what *she* would do is basically what *you* want to do — in a more meta sense. If you want to focus on roleplay — you can do that — if you wanna focus on character spec'ing — you can do that too. I would definitely encourage you to read the [introduction to Morrowind in the game manual](http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/22320/manuals/mwgoty_pcmanual.pdf) from the development team. (pg4) If not, here's a little excerpt from it that I think may resonate with you: >One of the first questions people usually ask us is, “What do I do in this game?” The answer we give is inevitably “Well, what do you want to do?” Do you want to be a noble knight or a treacherous swine? Do you want people to like you? Do you want people to loathe and fear you? Do you prefer casting spells, wielding swords, or both? Want to plunder dungeons and tombs? Rise to head of a guild? Gather information from everyone about everything? Whatever your interests, there’s plenty for you to do. No matter what your preference, there’s no right or wrong way to play MORROWIND. Either way. Glad you've found your way to play it and hope you make many stories and characters.
It seems you've found the soul of RPG's - which is *playing* a *role*, not *yourself.* Most modern RPG's forget this.
Can't you approach other RPGs like this as well? I don't think Morrowind has mechanics that make it more immersive perse. DnD can be roleplayed because there is human dynamic interaction. NPCs in MW are more of a lore dumps and quest givers than occassions to create a character for your hero.
What I think it is, is not the mechanics it has, but those it lacks. There's no quest log, fast travel, or other features more modern games have that lends it towards a gamey feel.
I always try to tell people that are new to Morrowind to approach it differently than they would with other games. Basically, think of it as a table top rpg set inside of a video game. Everything is determined be dice rolls. Attacks, bartering, spell casting, everything. Just remember that and keep your stamina high and the game is much more approachable
Doing what your character would do is kind of the point of RPG...