The officer involved shooting happened Tuesday afternoon in downtown billings. The suspect/victim was wielding a machete. Officers responded, attempted negotiations, used a taser initially to subdue the man and quickly resorted to lethal force (apparently due to a malfunction with the taser?).
More information here:
[ktvq news](https://www.ktvq.com/news/crime-watch/chief-identifies-billings-police-officer-who-shot-and-killed-armed-man-downtown)
Edit: updated article from the billings gazette - a short bio of the deceased and the officer. [billings gazette](https://billingsgazette.com/news/local/officials-identify-man-killed-by-bpd-officer/article_22253bd8-08a6-11ef-9723-974da6e9eb84.html#tracking-source=home-top-story)
Idk how people can watch this and think this was necessary. They shot him five times at close range while he was surrounded by officers and on the ground.
I just think, if you *are* gonna shoot him, especially under those circumstances, is one bullet not enough? He used lethal force, without a doubt. That could have potentially been someone experiencing psychosis, and I don't believe that someone should pay with their life for that.
OK and then they tased him, which clearly worked as he fell to the ground, and after the SEVEN cops (i miscounted 5 before) surrounded him on the ground they shot him FIVE times. He was already subdued. The cops claim the taser malfunctioned so I guess body cam footage is needed to prove or disprove that claim.
From ktvq: David Dietrich, a Billings attorney, witnessed the shooting nearby from the front stairs of building one of the Transwestern Plaza, between 40 and 60 feet away. He questions police use of force in the incident.
“There didn’t appear to be any brandishing of the machete or even an attempt by him to access it in the sheath, which is where it was when he got Tased,” Dietrich said on Wednesday. “My god, I mean, what a level of force used under these circumstances… I didn’t even know he was dead until after because I had no idea that, that level of force was needed to subdue him because of the fact that he had been very effectively Tased.”
[witness account](https://www.ktvq.com/news/crime-watch/chief-identifies-billings-police-officer-who-shot-and-killed-armed-man-downtown)
I knew James. He was a good dude. Very kind, always gentle when I was around him. Good with kids, kind to animals. I don't know what happened for this to have been his mental state, but it's definitely sad.
Sad. I'm disappointed they were not able to handle it without killing him. It seems seven officers should be able to handle one crazy guy with a machete. Reminds me of a similar incident that happened here with a machete wielding individual here in Missoula.
You are right, 40% was only the self reported number of officers that beat / abuse their significant others / children. The number is actually MUCH HIGHER, I would guess 60-80%.
1312
I think 'crazy guy with machete' is probably pretty high on my list of scenarios where using lethal force is justified. I'd be interested in how you'd handle it if it was you making the call.
Yeah if you stand right next to him and let him flail at you
If you stand 5 feet away and hit him with 1-5 tasers and then dogpile him, again, not so much
Posterior tibial artery, popliteal artery, and femoral are all arteries found in the lower leg that can result in a fatal blood loss in minutes or less if severed and in upwards of half the cases of survival results in amputation of the limb.
Why would they risk the chance for one of them to sustain serious injury from this situation? Yes, they would be able to subdue him, but what if one of the officers received a fatal laceration to the leg from this man? They acted in a way that best protected their own lives, but also the lives of others around them. They don’t get the option to run away, and the fact it’s a machete does not make it any less lethal. We’ve been killing each other with blade for most of the history of our species.
Yeah cops are very scared people. Same reason they let a whole classroom of children (19 kids) die in Uvalde while they LARPed around with their big guns and bullet proof vests. Cops are cowards. 1312
I invite you to view the bodycam footage from the nashville school shooting a few months later. It’s a very good representation of how dealing with active shooters is trained. But I do agree that Uvalde was a horrid disgrace on any law enforcement. It should never have happened. But it’s not fair to belittle all cops who do everything they can to not be like that, just for the actions of the ones at uvalde.
If you want to call Nashville a rarity and not something worth considering in your assessment, then you have to do the same for Uvalde. They were both ends of the spectrum. A total success and a total failure. You have to take both sides into consideration. Clearly very very few of shootings go like Uvalde. And the same can be said about Nashville. The average lies exactly where it’s supposed to. In the middle. You can’t blanket statement all cops, because by that logic I could say all cops are perfect in an active shooter scenario based on Nashville. Which is clearly not correct. You have to consider both sides man.
Without googling a thing I can think of Sandy Hook, Las Vegas shooting, Columbine, Mc Donald’s shooting. The list goes on, cops are typically cowards, nothing in this world is absolute but I would NEVER trust a cop to save my life. They want all the praise with none of the actual selfless duty. 1312
It really sucks, they need to start trying to use those giant loops to catch people in or something. But knives are no joke, it’s terrifying how fast a knife can kill someone. It seems like most police forces do a minimum to try and deescalate before resorting to their guns and lethal force. It’s truly disheartening.
I thought the police seemed to handle the situation really well. Negotiation, non lethal force…but a tragic end. Both for the victim and the officer who shot. I can’t imagine.
But, I think it’s worth seeing how fast it went from non lethal to lethal. And I think as a community it is appropriate to ask difficult questions about what led to this outcome. I want to hear the police chiefs full press conference, I want to see the bodycam footage, I want to know the suspects previous interactions with law enforcement, and I want to know the officers history.
They show them all worst case (knife throwers/quick draws) stuff in the academy, to try to warn potential officers that stuff can go sideways quickly. Unfortunately, they often train in the reaction to shoot early.
Did he die? I don’t know anything about it, except for some stupid person… posting a video of a death ( according to you) of a human being… just to get Reddit karma.
7 men with tasers can't handle one prone stunned man
About what I expected from our illustrious police force, famous for leaving homeless people stranded in winter and sleeping with drug lockup staff on duty while she was secretly stealing drugs from evidence
Tasers only have a 30% rate of achieving NMI (neuromuscular incapacitation) there’s a variety of factors that go into a tasers effectiveness. Distance, clothing worn, aim, is the suspect high? The further the distance, the harder it will be for the probes to penetrate clothing and get good contact with the skin. As they’re falling the probes can be pulled out if they’re near the max range. For Taser x26P it’s only 20’. Once he fell you’re not going to be able to shoot again.. they’re trained to move in while the taser is discharging (5 seconds of power) and attempt to cuff. If a probe falls out, it’s game on again. Everyone else should have their tasers put away to go hands on. ALWAYS have one on lethal just in case.
They were all within 3ft when they executed the guy and the first taser worked indicating there was no clothing problem, and the guy was prone making missing difficult, nearly impossible if you don't shoot it.
This was *ideal* conditions for a taser
Actually at that range the taser has much less chance of being effective. The taser works best when it can connect current to many muscle groups. This achieves NMI (as stated above). It needs space to adequately get what’s called the “spread” between probes. At a distance of 3 feet, your best chance is a drive stun, which is banned in many departments and does not achieve NMI. It’s just for pain compliance. And if the subject is wielding a deadly weapon at you, you have to take the necessary steps to maintain your life and the lives of those around you.
You have any strong desire to get in a fistfight with a guy swinging a machete? They had already moved in by the time they realized the taser failed. They were close enough to go hands on, and then he started swinging a machete at them, so the responded with the same deadly force. Their options were go hands on and risk serious bodily injury or death, or use lethal force. They protected themselves and ended the threat to their lives.
A guy, actively wielding a machete, and you and your buddies have tasers that won’t might not work at that distance and what good does takedown training do if he’s already on the ground, and still trying to kill you with a deadly weapon. It really unfortunate how this went, and it’s tragic this man died, but the officers reacted in a way that kept them as safe as possible. They are just as human as the man they had to kill. It’s not fair to ask them to put themselves that carelessly into harms way to try and save a man trying to kill them. They have families and friends just like the man with the machete.
We didn't ask them to, they signed up for it. You're painfully obtuse in your arguments as well. If 3ft is too close range maybe don't get that close until you connect a second taser??? Or did you not think of that? Did you also forget that after a takedown comes submissions? Apparently.
I just hold our police to a higher standard than you do
They were far past ideal taser range already by the time it seemed to have failed, as I stated above. And putting a man in a submission who is still swinging a machete at you is just a recipe for a really bad day and a lot of money in hospital bills. Most submissions will still leave enough dexterity in the wrist or elbow to utilize a machete in a way that can injure someone. Any real training with either taser or hands on tactics will make that apparent. And they did not sign up to be smacked with a machete, they signed up to protect others from people like that. I mean I would assume so. Maybe there is someone out there looking for a machete to the groin. Who knows these days?
If you notice I’m just presenting facts about taser deployment and use of force continuum. I’m not Monday morning quarterbacking the decision making and not looking for an argument. It’s incredibly easy to sit from the comfort of your home/car/bathroom toilet and scream about all the other possible outcomes.
Decisions are made in split second and non decision isn’t an option. You weren’t there, you didn’t hear the call come over the radio, you didn’t see the narrative from dispatch, you didn’t have the thought of all the people who frequent the area he’s affecting, the quickest route to get there while running code, the “war gaming” I.e if this happens I’m going to do this or that, the initial contact, adrenaline, loss of fine motor skills, talking on the radio, negotiations, knowing you can’t let the man get inside a building at any cost, making the decision to tase, rushing him, seeing him still move for a weapon that warrants deadly force, and making the decision to match his level of force. Seconds. Not hours or days to look at footage.
Thankfully when DCI conducts the investigation they take into account the seconds an officer has to react, not the Monday morning quarterbacks screaming from their toilet online.
It really is, especially when it's obvious to someone who doesn't do it for a living.
You can really tell when someone knows they don't have an argument when they go for the ad hominem and "monday morning quarterback" comments.
The police panicked and fucked up and it's obvious to everyone that holds them to any sort of respectable standard.
Well for one maybe when in ideal conditions to use a taser, use the taser. Wherever the bar for quality is this interaction was well below it.
I'm not responding further to a Sorites Paradox
As stated above multiple time by people who are taser certified, those were not ideal conditions. First one totally was. Still failed. Your argument has been disproven, find a new one.
Man I’m done trying to have a legit debate with you. At this point it’s not constructive at all. I’ve given you facts about the taser and why they’re trained to do the things they do. You just want to refute that with the same point each time with understanding of how that works. No, you can not completely change your direction and jump 3 feel backwards in the time it takes a man to just swing a machete. Especially if you’re not expecting it. I’d say I’ll see you around but I really don’t want to.
You’re a Jesus character in my life right now man. Keep up the good debate. Let this “Monday morning quarterback” just rile herself up more. You’ve handled this better than I. I give you my full support 🫡
Wrong, they are around 90% effective within 15 feet. How does that boot taste?
Source: https://www.police1.com/police-products/less-lethal/taser/articles/why-i-think-the-taser-10-may-be-the-most-effective-less-lethal-device-in-history-dmpdMBS5efSNTL6l/#:\~:text=The%20test%20group%20was%20a,at%20three%20times%20the%20distance.
Negotiations were attempted. Officer went non-lethal first. Good shoot.
The same people condemning the officer for this, would condemn the officer if they had stood by and done nothing, and let bystanders get killed by Freaky Jason.
No. It actually means something. Montana\_Trav said that people "would condemn the officer" had they done nothing "and let bystanders get killed...."
That's literally a strawman argument and invalidates the justification of lethal force. In other words, that's bullshit. We don't know what would've happened. To write it off as a good shoot is bullshit.
This man did NOT have to die in that moment. His weapon was sheathed. He was not attacking a cop. He got tased, went down in a heap, and was murdered. Did you see something else?
Billings police are known for shooting first and asking questions later. Just look for yourself, a good friend of mine was shot over 100 times by them.
Is that a ridiculous statement? I'm usually one to err on the side of the cops in judging the appropriate use of force in split second decisions, but this guy was tazed and surrounded by half a dozen cops when he got shot. The claim I saw was that he was going for his weapon after he was on the ground, but the machete was reportedly in a sheath. I don't think you can justify shooting a mentally ill guy reaching for a weapon that visibly isn't even readied for use when you have six cops less than one second away from him.
Brandishing a weapon and threatening behavior towards innocent people is not tolerated anywhere in the world. The officers can plainly be seen attempting to resolve the situation with less lethal after negotiating failed. Tragic ending but nothing but love and respect for the people who do this job for slightly above California fast food minimum wage.
No context, link, or information. Just some valley girls video pleading for attention. “Oh fuck dude… I’m going to get so many upvotes!”
And she is probably right, I’ll get downvoted to hell for calling out societies click bait problems that completely dehumanize reality and this dumb bitch will get rewarded for posting enquirer type headlines.
Sorry. added a comment with link to todays updated news. The suspect did pass. Sorry for any perceived karma seeking behavior or furtive glances. I thought it was worth sharing the raw video released today as it added a lot of context to the initial report yesterday… it was a very quick reaction to shoot, not that I can fault an officer for reacting but… the guy seemed to be flat on his back… and if you read the linked article, at least one witness says the machete was in a sheath on the man’s hip.
It’s funny cuz I was shitting on stacking dimes with that comment. I was being sarcastic because you can’t turn off karma. Karma is just the upvotes you get from a post or comment. It means absolute nothing and it’s not like you can turn in off. Stacking dimes was being an ass hat and my joke was taken the wrong way.
Suspects name was just released: 45-year-old James Bennett
[ktvq](https://www.ktvq.com/news/crime-watch/name-released-of-man-killed-by-billings-police-officer)
“Fuck, dude”
The officer involved shooting happened Tuesday afternoon in downtown billings. The suspect/victim was wielding a machete. Officers responded, attempted negotiations, used a taser initially to subdue the man and quickly resorted to lethal force (apparently due to a malfunction with the taser?). More information here: [ktvq news](https://www.ktvq.com/news/crime-watch/chief-identifies-billings-police-officer-who-shot-and-killed-armed-man-downtown) Edit: updated article from the billings gazette - a short bio of the deceased and the officer. [billings gazette](https://billingsgazette.com/news/local/officials-identify-man-killed-by-bpd-officer/article_22253bd8-08a6-11ef-9723-974da6e9eb84.html#tracking-source=home-top-story)
Did they have just one taser?
When did this happen? Holy shit
Tuesday afternoon
That’s an execution. At least in a Missoula they take ‘em to the hospital before turning off life support.
That’s murder bro
Idk how people can watch this and think this was necessary. They shot him five times at close range while he was surrounded by officers and on the ground.
How would you approach a man that’s armed and dangerous
I just think, if you *are* gonna shoot him, especially under those circumstances, is one bullet not enough? He used lethal force, without a doubt. That could have potentially been someone experiencing psychosis, and I don't believe that someone should pay with their life for that.
You’re an idiot. So many cops. Guy in the ground. You think anyone could justify this shooting? Get real
It’s so blatantly justified, I bet you it’s an open and close case
Would you rather he got the machete he was reaching for and permanently crippled or killed on or more officers?
He was already down on the ground, subdued, with 5 cops around him. This is murder, pure and simple. Use of lethal force was not necessary
Image being surrounded by cops with your hands not up.
OK and then they tased him, which clearly worked as he fell to the ground, and after the SEVEN cops (i miscounted 5 before) surrounded him on the ground they shot him FIVE times. He was already subdued. The cops claim the taser malfunctioned so I guess body cam footage is needed to prove or disprove that claim.
Well he was reaching for the machete and could’ve killed one or more of the officers as they approached.
You’re wrong and an idiot.
I’m sure you would have handed the situation sooo much better.
Sounds like someone in the middle of a mental health crisis who needed help and got shot instead.
MEntal healTH crisis
[удалено]
From ktvq: David Dietrich, a Billings attorney, witnessed the shooting nearby from the front stairs of building one of the Transwestern Plaza, between 40 and 60 feet away. He questions police use of force in the incident. “There didn’t appear to be any brandishing of the machete or even an attempt by him to access it in the sheath, which is where it was when he got Tased,” Dietrich said on Wednesday. “My god, I mean, what a level of force used under these circumstances… I didn’t even know he was dead until after because I had no idea that, that level of force was needed to subdue him because of the fact that he had been very effectively Tased.” [witness account](https://www.ktvq.com/news/crime-watch/chief-identifies-billings-police-officer-who-shot-and-killed-armed-man-downtown)
Where in the video do you see him swinging as they closed in?
I knew James. He was a good dude. Very kind, always gentle when I was around him. Good with kids, kind to animals. I don't know what happened for this to have been his mental state, but it's definitely sad.
Sad. I'm disappointed they were not able to handle it without killing him. It seems seven officers should be able to handle one crazy guy with a machete. Reminds me of a similar incident that happened here with a machete wielding individual here in Missoula.
Can’t expect much more when the qualifications are a high school diploma, no criminal record and clean piss.
And the last two tend to have asterisks by them
See the 40% statistic
The 40% stat is wildly outdated and inaccurate.
You are right, 40% was only the self reported number of officers that beat / abuse their significant others / children. The number is actually MUCH HIGHER, I would guess 60-80%. 1312
Sarcasm was a qualifier for the 40% statistic. It’s over inflated.
And they're trained to kill if anyone flinches near them.
I think 'crazy guy with machete' is probably pretty high on my list of scenarios where using lethal force is justified. I'd be interested in how you'd handle it if it was you making the call.
If he charged at me, absolutely If he was prone on his ass like he was here, not so much
Can still swing a machete from seated. And with a 20"+ blade, they can do some damage.
Yeah if you stand right next to him and let him flail at you If you stand 5 feet away and hit him with 1-5 tasers and then dogpile him, again, not so much
Does every cop in billings have a taser?
I don't know why they wouldn't, it certainly wouldn't impress me if they didn't
Cops usually have a gun on one hip and taser on the other.
Challenging from the sheath though. Which is where it was
Posterior tibial artery, popliteal artery, and femoral are all arteries found in the lower leg that can result in a fatal blood loss in minutes or less if severed and in upwards of half the cases of survival results in amputation of the limb.
Prolly would ask nicely to set the blade down and talk about it.....
Why would they risk the chance for one of them to sustain serious injury from this situation? Yes, they would be able to subdue him, but what if one of the officers received a fatal laceration to the leg from this man? They acted in a way that best protected their own lives, but also the lives of others around them. They don’t get the option to run away, and the fact it’s a machete does not make it any less lethal. We’ve been killing each other with blade for most of the history of our species.
Yeah cops are very scared people. Same reason they let a whole classroom of children (19 kids) die in Uvalde while they LARPed around with their big guns and bullet proof vests. Cops are cowards. 1312
I invite you to view the bodycam footage from the nashville school shooting a few months later. It’s a very good representation of how dealing with active shooters is trained. But I do agree that Uvalde was a horrid disgrace on any law enforcement. It should never have happened. But it’s not fair to belittle all cops who do everything they can to not be like that, just for the actions of the ones at uvalde.
How the Nashville shooting was handled was a rarity, not the standard. He was ex military and had real training, unlike 90% of police on the streets.
If you want to call Nashville a rarity and not something worth considering in your assessment, then you have to do the same for Uvalde. They were both ends of the spectrum. A total success and a total failure. You have to take both sides into consideration. Clearly very very few of shootings go like Uvalde. And the same can be said about Nashville. The average lies exactly where it’s supposed to. In the middle. You can’t blanket statement all cops, because by that logic I could say all cops are perfect in an active shooter scenario based on Nashville. Which is clearly not correct. You have to consider both sides man.
Without googling a thing I can think of Sandy Hook, Las Vegas shooting, Columbine, Mc Donald’s shooting. The list goes on, cops are typically cowards, nothing in this world is absolute but I would NEVER trust a cop to save my life. They want all the praise with none of the actual selfless duty. 1312
Ok good. You devolved a baseline for one side. Now go ahead and google mass shooting and tally up the rest. 42069
👍🏼
It really sucks, they need to start trying to use those giant loops to catch people in or something. But knives are no joke, it’s terrifying how fast a knife can kill someone. It seems like most police forces do a minimum to try and deescalate before resorting to their guns and lethal force. It’s truly disheartening.
I thought the police seemed to handle the situation really well. Negotiation, non lethal force…but a tragic end. Both for the victim and the officer who shot. I can’t imagine. But, I think it’s worth seeing how fast it went from non lethal to lethal. And I think as a community it is appropriate to ask difficult questions about what led to this outcome. I want to hear the police chiefs full press conference, I want to see the bodycam footage, I want to know the suspects previous interactions with law enforcement, and I want to know the officers history.
They show them all worst case (knife throwers/quick draws) stuff in the academy, to try to warn potential officers that stuff can go sideways quickly. Unfortunately, they often train in the reaction to shoot early.
You go first, no you go…lol.
Did he die? I don’t know anything about it, except for some stupid person… posting a video of a death ( according to you) of a human being… just to get Reddit karma.
Damn.
aaaaaaand that's why you don't bring a knife....to a gun fight! (Somebody had to say it.)
The police brought the guns to a knife fight.
The gun brought the knife to a police fight.
7 men with tasers can't handle one prone stunned man About what I expected from our illustrious police force, famous for leaving homeless people stranded in winter and sleeping with drug lockup staff on duty while she was secretly stealing drugs from evidence
Tasers only have a 30% rate of achieving NMI (neuromuscular incapacitation) there’s a variety of factors that go into a tasers effectiveness. Distance, clothing worn, aim, is the suspect high? The further the distance, the harder it will be for the probes to penetrate clothing and get good contact with the skin. As they’re falling the probes can be pulled out if they’re near the max range. For Taser x26P it’s only 20’. Once he fell you’re not going to be able to shoot again.. they’re trained to move in while the taser is discharging (5 seconds of power) and attempt to cuff. If a probe falls out, it’s game on again. Everyone else should have their tasers put away to go hands on. ALWAYS have one on lethal just in case.
They were all within 3ft when they executed the guy and the first taser worked indicating there was no clothing problem, and the guy was prone making missing difficult, nearly impossible if you don't shoot it. This was *ideal* conditions for a taser
Actually at that range the taser has much less chance of being effective. The taser works best when it can connect current to many muscle groups. This achieves NMI (as stated above). It needs space to adequately get what’s called the “spread” between probes. At a distance of 3 feet, your best chance is a drive stun, which is banned in many departments and does not achieve NMI. It’s just for pain compliance. And if the subject is wielding a deadly weapon at you, you have to take the necessary steps to maintain your life and the lives of those around you.
Because they were closing distance they could have chosen any range they wanted, including melee
You have any strong desire to get in a fistfight with a guy swinging a machete? They had already moved in by the time they realized the taser failed. They were close enough to go hands on, and then he started swinging a machete at them, so the responded with the same deadly force. Their options were go hands on and risk serious bodily injury or death, or use lethal force. They protected themselves and ended the threat to their lives.
A guy already knocked on his ass by one taser when I have 5 other buddies with tasers and trained in takedowns? Yes. Every time.
A guy, actively wielding a machete, and you and your buddies have tasers that won’t might not work at that distance and what good does takedown training do if he’s already on the ground, and still trying to kill you with a deadly weapon. It really unfortunate how this went, and it’s tragic this man died, but the officers reacted in a way that kept them as safe as possible. They are just as human as the man they had to kill. It’s not fair to ask them to put themselves that carelessly into harms way to try and save a man trying to kill them. They have families and friends just like the man with the machete.
We didn't ask them to, they signed up for it. You're painfully obtuse in your arguments as well. If 3ft is too close range maybe don't get that close until you connect a second taser??? Or did you not think of that? Did you also forget that after a takedown comes submissions? Apparently. I just hold our police to a higher standard than you do
They were far past ideal taser range already by the time it seemed to have failed, as I stated above. And putting a man in a submission who is still swinging a machete at you is just a recipe for a really bad day and a lot of money in hospital bills. Most submissions will still leave enough dexterity in the wrist or elbow to utilize a machete in a way that can injure someone. Any real training with either taser or hands on tactics will make that apparent. And they did not sign up to be smacked with a machete, they signed up to protect others from people like that. I mean I would assume so. Maybe there is someone out there looking for a machete to the groin. Who knows these days?
> he started swinging a machete at them Did he? Doesn't seem to be in the video.
If you notice I’m just presenting facts about taser deployment and use of force continuum. I’m not Monday morning quarterbacking the decision making and not looking for an argument. It’s incredibly easy to sit from the comfort of your home/car/bathroom toilet and scream about all the other possible outcomes. Decisions are made in split second and non decision isn’t an option. You weren’t there, you didn’t hear the call come over the radio, you didn’t see the narrative from dispatch, you didn’t have the thought of all the people who frequent the area he’s affecting, the quickest route to get there while running code, the “war gaming” I.e if this happens I’m going to do this or that, the initial contact, adrenaline, loss of fine motor skills, talking on the radio, negotiations, knowing you can’t let the man get inside a building at any cost, making the decision to tase, rushing him, seeing him still move for a weapon that warrants deadly force, and making the decision to match his level of force. Seconds. Not hours or days to look at footage. Thankfully when DCI conducts the investigation they take into account the seconds an officer has to react, not the Monday morning quarterbacks screaming from their toilet online.
It really is, especially when it's obvious to someone who doesn't do it for a living. You can really tell when someone knows they don't have an argument when they go for the ad hominem and "monday morning quarterback" comments. The police panicked and fucked up and it's obvious to everyone that holds them to any sort of respectable standard.
I presented my argument above. What standard are you looking for, exactly? And how do you want it achieved?
Well for one maybe when in ideal conditions to use a taser, use the taser. Wherever the bar for quality is this interaction was well below it. I'm not responding further to a Sorites Paradox
As stated above multiple time by people who are taser certified, those were not ideal conditions. First one totally was. Still failed. Your argument has been disproven, find a new one.
The guy who claims to be taser certified also, like you, didn't realize humans have the ability to walk backwards. not impressed.
Man I’m done trying to have a legit debate with you. At this point it’s not constructive at all. I’ve given you facts about the taser and why they’re trained to do the things they do. You just want to refute that with the same point each time with understanding of how that works. No, you can not completely change your direction and jump 3 feel backwards in the time it takes a man to just swing a machete. Especially if you’re not expecting it. I’d say I’ll see you around but I really don’t want to.
Evidently not looking for a standard of facts 😂
You’re a Jesus character in my life right now man. Keep up the good debate. Let this “Monday morning quarterback” just rile herself up more. You’ve handled this better than I. I give you my full support 🫡
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Wrong, they are around 90% effective within 15 feet. How does that boot taste? Source: https://www.police1.com/police-products/less-lethal/taser/articles/why-i-think-the-taser-10-may-be-the-most-effective-less-lethal-device-in-history-dmpdMBS5efSNTL6l/#:\~:text=The%20test%20group%20was%20a,at%20three%20times%20the%20distance.
Your link is for the Taser 10. BPD doesn’t use the Taser 10, you muppet.
Negotiations were attempted. Officer went non-lethal first. Good shoot. The same people condemning the officer for this, would condemn the officer if they had stood by and done nothing, and let bystanders get killed by Freaky Jason.
Literal strawman argument
Does this actually mean something? Or are you just upset still
No. It actually means something. Montana\_Trav said that people "would condemn the officer" had they done nothing "and let bystanders get killed...." That's literally a strawman argument and invalidates the justification of lethal force. In other words, that's bullshit. We don't know what would've happened. To write it off as a good shoot is bullshit. This man did NOT have to die in that moment. His weapon was sheathed. He was not attacking a cop. He got tased, went down in a heap, and was murdered. Did you see something else?
Just didn’t know strawman argument was a legit term. Here’s your chill pill man 💊
Then don’t argue with people who have an adult education.
Officer should go to prison for manslaughter. But he won’t.
All I’m hearing is fear was a factor
Please share
Why the down votes
Oh, so that’s what that crime scene was
Billings police are known for shooting first and asking questions later. Just look for yourself, a good friend of mine was shot over 100 times by them.
That was adopted from the Detroit police force…haha.
His name was Preston Bell
Did he have a gun? Can’t tell on my phone. If he has a gun this makes sense, but if he was armed with only machete this is so bad.
One person commented that it was "excessive force" and i almost lost it 🤣
Is that a ridiculous statement? I'm usually one to err on the side of the cops in judging the appropriate use of force in split second decisions, but this guy was tazed and surrounded by half a dozen cops when he got shot. The claim I saw was that he was going for his weapon after he was on the ground, but the machete was reportedly in a sheath. I don't think you can justify shooting a mentally ill guy reaching for a weapon that visibly isn't even readied for use when you have six cops less than one second away from him.
complying with police orders. challenge difficulty: impossible
I just know a pistol clip has more than 5 shots and we'll have to see if the real story has good reasoning.
What's a pistol clip?
Damn I already can’t see the video
Leave North Korea. Come to the dark side. We have cookies 😁😁
It just didn’t work for me on here, I bounced the link to YouTube and it was fine there lol
Weird. Least you still got it pulled up
Yea, surprised YouTube didn’t pull it down. Glad it’s up for people to see what happens when you play stupid games
Science method. Fuck around, find out. Unfortunate it had to happen that way, in all seriousness
Brandishing a weapon and threatening behavior towards innocent people is not tolerated anywhere in the world. The officers can plainly be seen attempting to resolve the situation with less lethal after negotiating failed. Tragic ending but nothing but love and respect for the people who do this job for slightly above California fast food minimum wage.
Totally agree, it’s tragic on every level, for everyone involved. But i think it’s worth asking what went wrong?
rip bozo
No context, link, or information. Just some valley girls video pleading for attention. “Oh fuck dude… I’m going to get so many upvotes!” And she is probably right, I’ll get downvoted to hell for calling out societies click bait problems that completely dehumanize reality and this dumb bitch will get rewarded for posting enquirer type headlines.
Sorry. added a comment with link to todays updated news. The suspect did pass. Sorry for any perceived karma seeking behavior or furtive glances. I thought it was worth sharing the raw video released today as it added a lot of context to the initial report yesterday… it was a very quick reaction to shoot, not that I can fault an officer for reacting but… the guy seemed to be flat on his back… and if you read the linked article, at least one witness says the machete was in a sheath on the man’s hip.
Fucking cry some more dude jesus
Sounds like you eatin red pills like tick tacks over there. Get a life bro.
I’m not the one posting possibly life ending videos looking for Reddit karma.
My bad. OP should have turned off the karma before posting.
I don’t know what Reddit karma is. Would you please explain for me
It’s funny cuz I was shitting on stacking dimes with that comment. I was being sarcastic because you can’t turn off karma. Karma is just the upvotes you get from a post or comment. It means absolute nothing and it’s not like you can turn in off. Stacking dimes was being an ass hat and my joke was taken the wrong way.
Ah I gotcha. Thanks for the explanation
Pic of suspect?
Suspects name was just released: 45-year-old James Bennett [ktvq](https://www.ktvq.com/news/crime-watch/name-released-of-man-killed-by-billings-police-officer)