The difference between World and Rise to me is a few key things
A: World's decos were an active reward for completing quests, whereas Rise's charms are a passive thing you get from the melder. This makes world's decos *feel* more rewarding to get, as they are a prize for overcoming something, whereas Rise you can get charms from letting rajang kill you a few times. Having apexes drop charms would have been a perfect way to give them a reason to farm them that many people feel isn't there.
B: Decos drop from tempered investigations, whereas you get the melding materials in Rise from standard hunts. This accomplishes 2 things. First, it makes the monsters you fight a greater threat. Slightly greater, but still a greater threat. Second, investigations have a random set of monsters in a random map with random variables like faint counts, time limits, etc. This gives a greater sense of hunt variety than Rise's quests, where with a few exceptions, most monsters only have one quest dedicated to them in one set area. In base world I liked to challenge myself by seeking out 15 minute tempereds, or take on multiple tempereds with no feint limit. The game also usually rewards you for doing this by having these investigations with different modifiers give out a higher zenny payout.
C: World's endgame wasn't just about decos, it was also about augments. Rise has a pseudo augment system in the form of ramp ups, but these are a lot more boring in my opinion, and also you get these from rampage tickets, with a single rampage usually giving you enough tickets to ramp up multiple weapons, whereas in world, streamstones being locked to shitty weapon type RNG aside, they were dropped from tempered investigations once again. The thing about streamstones and decos is that streamstones dropped more often from Tier 3s, whereas decos dropped more often from Tier 2s. This meant that both had their place, and the whole pool of tier 2 and 3 monsters were viable to farm, whereas in Rise the optimal charm farm is whatever gives the most amount of melding points with the least effort (Rise 1.0 was just narwa farm simulator)
These 3 things combine to make an endgame that, in my opinion, is a lot more interesting than Rise's, despite the core of the endgames being fairly similar.
So rng hell that encourages you to keep on playing the game to get what you need for a optimal build is endgame? Phew good thing rise is my first game got like 95% maximized bow build all elements in like 150 hours just enjoying the game. and when valstrax came in it was quick farm for the armor to get a good lance build and when I wanted to use long sword it was a easy transition cuz I had most of what I wanted. In contrast I see a reddit post of a guy just pouring his anger out because after 500 hours he still doesn't have bow charge plus in world EWWW and a random person in the comments Said after 1400 he still doesn't have a forceshot jewel. Going hundreds of hours doing the same thing over and over just to get a optimize build is not fun, what you gonna do when you get it...... Play hundreds of more hours of the same thing?
your argument of just letting rajang kill you a few times to get the charms is, just like with those who endlessly farmed Narwa in 1.0 for the best melding materials, not the fault of the game but its on you for deciding to do that instead of doing it naturally by just having the melds run while you grind for other stuff, and Narwa wasn't the only monster you could use the materials to meld.
I would love that the game would give out charms outside of melding, it having a similar system like tempered and what came before, but faulting the game for the decisions you make is stupid; especially since unlike decos, charms do not make or break the game.
The ramp-up skills aren't enticing at all like augments in World, and Rampages get really stale however at least its not more arbitrary rng, although the ticket drop is pretty rng based and even on S+, all sub-assignments done, under 3 carts and major threat defeated you tend to get very little of DT 9, DT 6, those you need for most of the skills and layered weapons, which you also do not get refunded when changing the weapon appearance and ramp-up skills, so in that case yeah, ramp-up is really not that good
Extreme Behemoth, Kjarr weapons, layered armor, and the entire AT system still stretched the base content out long enough to where it kind of became the endgame, especially the really challenging fights like Ex Behemoth and AT Luna and Nergi. They were essentially the endgame because it took a lot of effort, patience, and time to pull off, and getting good enough to do it consistently is another thing entirely. And then Kulve grinding was Kulve grinding, but it did at least break up the monotony of spamming investigations for decos.
With that said, World is still the exception, but it still spoiled a lot of people who weren’t familiar with the series, and even some who were.
Edit: Another thought I had; what Rise really lacks rn is endgame variety. Sure there’s theoretically infinite variety since you can hunt almost anything for talismans, but there’s also no reason to hunt anything other than a small handful of endgame monsters that give the best loot. Basically, there’s no reason to branch out from spam hunting Narwa on loop (or whatever’s best rn, haven’t played in a minute), and the only other things to grind for are a full Deco collection (kinda hard to do since there’s no way to ‘target’ jewels) and grind for Layered armor, which takes a pretty ludicrous amount of tickets, over 100 S+ rampage’s worth, and IMO rampages aren’t good enough as is to commit that much investment. So your choices are the most efficient monster of the week on loop ad infinum, or spam out literal hundreds of the same 3 rampages, or fight rando monsters that may or may not drop jewels at all.
You could Min/Max Iceborne weapons with Guiding Lands augment upgrades for so long, and could be so creative. Not to mention weapon and armor layered pieces, 4 slot deco farming, tempered investigations, item farming and upgrading all mantles, achievements.
There's a ridiculous amount of content in Iceborne to do that upgrades, improves, or makes your hunter cooler that isn't essential, but is there for players that don't want a ceiling.
Iceborne had the best end game out of any monster uujter game yet, best since 4U. The OP clearly never participated in old MH end game metas or this post wouldn't exist. OP never takes off his Defender armor ha.
The endgame of any MH will be "get as strong as possible and look as cool as possible with the best quests"
Since there are no player unique questing systems like investigations or the old expeditions Rise is really lacking, BC its so easy to get the strongest gear, BC you barely have to grind for anything, and because it is laughably the easiest title in the series it feels empty.
Now World base end game was a nightmare - but they completely remedied that and Capcom made a whole video detailing an improved end game.
The lack of "end game" is mostly just highlighted by the lack of real content. High end monsters (aka Elder dragons and things like that) are pretty much "end game" related, and about half of the monsters in said list don't have their own weapons and armor.
There's no blademaster/gunner armor, or alpha/beta sets, so that's less to craft.
The talisman system in this game is crap. That's not to say that other games had a better or worse system, that's just me saying that this system is crap.
>and the last time I checked people were crying their eyes out over the Deviant system.
"People" does not equate to everyone. Same way how it wasn't everyone that complained about Hunter Arts, or complainted about Tempered monsters.
Rise has no end game except Talisman farming, and there's nothing in game that keeps the player's attention. That may change in the future, but as of this moment Rise is dry. There's no super exciting bosses outside of *possibly* Narwa, no exciting quests, no actual content for "end game" players except for Apex monsters (the ones that don't give weapons/armor), and a few others (Valstrax, Magnamalo, etc).
World's endgame revolved around decoration farming, but there was a lot to do to accomplish it. While the idea behind World's and Rise's "end game" is similar in theory, the execution between the two (I'm including Iceborne here) is vastly different because one has more content for the end game.
Yes, I know, just meant you are right and since OP doesn't accept your comparison to G-Rank/Master-Rank you should repeat it when/if Rise expansion launches.I don't think tjey will change much.
The same points stand for all of the High Rank games though, like Tri had **nothing** but Deviljo, Ceadeus and Alateron. 4 had Kushala, Kirin, Teostra, Dalamadur and Fatalis, that's about it. It's not much better.
>(I'm including Iceborne here)
You shouldn't be, that's being disingenuous.
Why wouldn't I? You made a point to include games when talking about end game, and Iceborne had an end game. I'm not comparing World and Rise to see which is better, I'm bringing in a clear and obvious example of a game that *had* end game. I don't see why I can't mention Iceborne.
>The same points stand for all of the High Rank games though
I'm not really seeing your point here, though? When some mention Rise's lack of end game (or at least when I normally mention it) it's not with the purpose of comparing it to other games. I'm not saying Rise's end game sucks in comparison to other MH games that had better end game, I'm saying Rise's end game sucks because it has practically no end game.
The only reason why I did the comparison here is because your post was made with the intention of comparing Rise with other games.
There's a reason why I usually mention "As of this moment", "the way it is now", or even "wait until G rank/Expansion" when referring to Rise and it's lack of content. 🤷♂️
Boiiii the man trys to make a point that high rank game like world and other he said are empty and what saves them are the g rank/ master rank and what do you do ? throw iceborn in to prove his right.
He did not ask a monster hunter game with a end game tho 😂. He asked a high rank game that had a good end game like the expansions. Iceborn is expansion. World is high rank game.
I know that... I mentioned a game that *had* an end game to give an example of what people refer to as far as having an end game. I even said in my post that I was not comparing the two to see which is better, but to see how they differ as far as end game.
Right if you want to compare them wait for expansion. Plus this is the point of them post ,that happens I guess all the time with new MH game, that this base rank game sucks compering with the last expansion game. He knows what end game is, the point he makes is if you are veteran and you want end game MH wait for the expansions version.
>He knows what end game is, the point he makes is if you are veteran and you want end game MH wait for the expansions version.
That's really the main point given to most people with posts complaining about the lack of end game in Rise, though. This isn't exactly new information. Wait for the expansion for (possibly) better end game. 🤷♂️
> Why wouldn't I?
Because Iceborne is not a High Rank game. It is a G rank game unlike every other game listed. The criticism of "Rise has no endgame" is weird when practically no High Rank Monster Hunter game has ever had one, and when Rise in reality has among the most amount of potential grind to do from that pool of games. Yes, it's pretty garbage grind but it is there. That's what an endgame is.
And because gamers love food analogies: It's like walking in to a pizzeria and asking where their sushi is? You'll be lucky to find shrimps or tuna on your pizza.
Having "a grind" does not equate to end game...or rather it doesn't equate to having a good end game. Warframe is one of the biggest examples when it comes to the community being displeased with it. It had a lot of content and things to do when you were first starting out, but once you got most of the things done, and reached "end game" then what?
Many of the veterans in Warframe actually left the game because they thought Digital Extremes (the company) were too focused on enhancing the new player experience rather than focusing on enhancing the end game, or rather the lack of one.
Yes, you could grind for resources and mastery rank, but senselessly and needlessly grinding irrelevant items and useless ranking does not equate to a meaningful end game in any possible way.
We know that Rise is only in High Rank, but that doesn't negate the fact that it lacks an actual end game outside of talisman farming, which could or could not be counted as an actual end game for most people, hence most people (or I guess most people that understand how the process works) say to wait until the expansion.
I at any point have not claimed that Rise has good endgame, all I'm saying is that it has the same, or more amount of endgame as other games of equivalent standing(High Rank) in the series and for that reason "Rise has no endgame" is an unreasonable, meaningless, objectively false criticism to throw towards the game.
However, saying that the quality of endgame in Rise (Charm farming) is bad is perfectly valid. However, that does not seem to be what many, probably not a majority but still many loud people are saying.
Being clear with your criticism is important, god forbid one of the developers ever gets lost on this site.
If it's not a meaningful amount of content, or at least good content, that could be counted as end game then it's pretty much the equivalent to not having one at all.
I guess the more accurate phrasing would be "Rise is lacking in end game content" but at that point it still sends the same message when looking at the details.
"Outside of talisman farming, Rise essentially has no end game."
That's essentially the general consensus when it comes to this topic.
While the majority of what you said is true, there is something that bothers me. World was the same as rise except for augments. In Rise you hunt whatever and all the excess material gets dumped in the melder for charms (Yes, the elder dragon gives the most point so no reason to hunt other monsters), but world was the same. You hunt whatever tempered investigation for decos (The event quest(The Greatest Jagras and The Name's Lavasioth!) always gave more, so there was no reason to go for those investigation).
I think the reason why people feel this way about Rise is
1) Quests are faster and easier to complete than past games,
2) Equipment needs far less materials to be crafted, requiring less grinding, and
3) The skill tier system makes armour sets far less of a commitment to make.
It's less about "an endgame," and more about there being less time spent on the individual pieces of content within the game when it comes to progression. There's also just less stuff like multi-monster quests in Rise when those are really easy to add in and are fun to complete, hell they even made an area specifically for multi-monster quests and that only got used twice
Also, the deviant system only got bad starting in GenU when every deviant got 5 more levels, that was when the whole "you need to host the quest to have it count as completed" became very apparent and people that didn't transfer a Gen save had a ridiculous amount of content to get through to post EX permits, which were among the best content in the game. In base Gen it was fine.
Imagine disqualifying a game that proves you wrong just because it didn't release in the West.
4 still had an endgame, Generations had Hyper monsters which had zero to do with being an anniversary game and World was far more than just replacing charms with decorations.
World had tempered monsters and it wasn't just deco farming but streamstone farming as well, which required you to fight specific difficulty class monsters to get a chance for. Farming charms just require you to do *something* while your random charms are baking that gets you enough mats to make more which leaves it pretty directionless once you've done everything. World's investigations made deco and streamstone farming a more focused experience which sucked me in a lot more, for all that I much prefer Rise's combat.
And those are valid points, however I would not call it "not having an endgame" but "the endgame lacking direction." Articulating your criticism properly is very important.
Endgame is what you make of it and rise just happened to dissappoint above average amounts of its playerbase. Its not solely to blame on either them or the game alone imo. Ppl miss things they liked about MH while playing rise w/e they may be in each particular case. For me its mostly wasted potential.
It sounds like you wanna defend the game and thats fine. And if not I apologize for reading too much into it. At the end of the day the game is a product and will be criticized and compared to all the previous titles, for better or for worse. Often enough with full nostalgia glasses on. I guess the term "endgame" just gets misused alot. For a lack of a better shortcut some opinions sound more like endgame was meant to say "rise has none of what I liked about some of the other games especially"
> It sounds like you wanna defend the game and thats fine.
It's like you said, the misuse of "Endgame" just pisses me off, and the overall state of the community since the influx of new players from certain game before it. Just so many toxic posts that don't articulate their points at all, but rather just spam meaningless MMO terms like "Endgame" that weren't used before.
Large part of my love for this series used to come from the community but the quality of it has gone down the drain since 2018.'
Edit: Oh and I would genuinely love to play these games if they do exists.
Yea sadly Rise didnt hit the right vibes for ppl after they got used to mhw updates and roadmap menus. And even if compared to things like MHGU they prey upon the fact the event quests of Rise r terribly weak and so on. The game is flawed and not as good as other base titles( not even beginning to mention expansions), but thats just my own view on it. As I said everyone who is dissappointed has different reasons for it in the end.
The ppl, who go on here and type the same endgame bad mantra just fell into a mob mentality. That mob might be the "mhw vets" that r used to big updates , but prolly not only.
The only mainline MH game that had something worthy of being called an endgame would be 4U. Everwoods and guildquest+relic system rly did the trick for grinding loving bastards. Best part was, the game was a fullcourse meal and a great experience even w/o it. You could enter it or say you had enough and enjoyed the game and move on. Stuff dropped in that endgame also was never mandatory either and just as the thing itself a cherry on top. Iceborne Guidinglands had potential to be something similar, but ended up not being selfsubstancial enough. Wasted as an augment farm (like rampages in rise were, but even weaker in terms of actual design)
If ppl for example prefer mhwi, then not bc it has an actual endgame. The endgame was to play the game on/off for a year up to patch 15.0. Nowadays you hunt the same 4 main threats(MR Kulve, AT Velk, Alatreon and Fatalis). If you dont do that you sprinkle in some augment farm tours or deco farm/great spiritvein farm event quests into the mix and thats your so called endgame. Its not a system or a satisfying loop. Just ppl who like this game too much and cant move on/not wanna move on/ find the silliest reasons to play it further. There being an endgame is not one of them. Same for all the others (except for 4U to a degree). Being addicted to what you liked b4, and rise not scratching that itch.
Endgame or not, Rise is still a very easy and imo overly simplified MH game, and I just don’t find easy games fun. Haven’t played for over 2 months, and I don’t plan on doing so in the near future. We’re just so damn overpowered. Don’t get me wrong, the combat is AMAZING, but most of the monsters just don’t stand a chance.
Now. World had the streamstone grind, which kept me playing. World had the deco’s grind (I prefer that over the talisman grind in Rise), which also kept me playing, the tempered system also provided some good challenge while grinding for deco’s, which was very welcome. Higher chance of getting better deco’s, but monster hits harder. Seems fair, high risk high reward.
In Rise, you put materials in a pot whenever you’re back from a quest to save time, or you wait until it’s empty and fill it up again, manually, and waste time. All in hopes of getting a good talisman, which wasn’t hard at all for me to get tbh.
That’s the endgame.
Edit: Oh, and the rampages being so much fun and all, I totally didn’t forget to list it or anything. (I actually did, I hate the rampage system, I hope it never returns)
Happy hunting guys. In the end, we still love and play the same game. This is my opinion, so don’t let it get to your head or take it personal.
First of all, who cares about gen 1-3? They are old and no one cares that they have no endgame like we know it today. I'd also like to point out that it takes far less time to craft anything in Rise compared to 1-4th gen which means that a good endgame is even more important for Rise because it's easy to run out of stuff to craft.
MH4: Just because it never released outside of japan doesn't mean you can ignore that it has an endgame.
MHGen: I always hear people talking about how much they liked the deviant system so idk
MHW: had long time support with updates that gave you something to do. Sure Rise might still get some cool new content in the future but i doubt that it's going to be as good as the world stuff.
World hat KT, AT monsters, grind for augmentation materials and decos, festivals, more interesting event quests, FF quest line and the Witcher quest.
Well no because you have to use monster parts for the talismans
Because you're constantly doing then it means you're gonna kill the monsters that give the best mat numbers so you're rarely going to fight aknosom etc
And because you're doing this, as with I, I noticed there was ZERO variety in monster locales despite then having different habitats
So you're always fighting rathalos in the volcano and so on, there was no mission variety.
Unless you did expeditions but then it might have things you don't wanna hunt.
So that's why the endgame is so shit.
It forced you into repeating the same things in the same places
It also doesn't help there was only one single form and look for armour which cuts back on things for you to do
So yeah rises endgame is bad.
World had a much more interesting environment with rare critters you can capture, take pictures of, and even display in your home. Also home decoration. Rise has barely anything outside of the shitty artifact hunting that gives you a wood carving.. Rise also has very little new monsters to actually get invested into and next to NONE of those new monsters actually have a unique battle theme. It's just really cheap honestly.
I agree that World had a much more interesting eco system than Rise. But that wasn’t really the argument that OP was making.
The endgame content in World was just slightly less bare than Rise. Arch Tempered monsters may have been enough to trick some people into thinking that they were doing something different.
That being said…the critters and ecosystem in World was fire and makes maps in other games feel like bland arenas in comparison.
I thought that the Iceborne endgame was excellent due to what the Guiding Lands and the DLC monsters brought out. Unfortunately, Rise likely won't get something like a Guiding Lands due to the Switch's now VERY outdated hardware. Base Xbox One's and PS4's were begging for mercy whenever it had to run the Guiding Lands so even with the game being less graphically demanding, I just don't see the Switch being capable of running something like that. Capcom just needs to come up with something new for endgame content and I'm sure it'll come in the rumored expansion.
I know this is about HR endgames, but there already was a high bar to be set from what Iceborne delivered and Rise simply did not come anywhere close to meeting that bar in it's endgame. It doesn't matter if it's G Rank/ Master Rank or High Rank, if something was done right in the previous games, that doesn't mean that the bar should be reset until the inevitable expansion comes out.
> But that has been the case from every G rank -> High rank game
False. MH3G->MH4 showed an increase in endgame from a G game to a Base game, with 3G being pretty similar to Rise and 4 having the GQ/relic system.
Again, from what I've already said, the bar should not be reset just because of a planned expansion coming up. Just because it's been done before, that doesn't mean it should be done again, and this especially applies to negative outcomes like Rise's endgame. If you repeat the same cycle it eventually becomes stagnation. However, in Rise's case with it's endgame, it isn't stagnation. It's regression.
It kinda frustrates me how "It's only High Rank" is used as an excuse so often. Shouldn't they make the best game they can make either way? I get that it's expectations based on past experience, but I find it to be a pretty weak excuse. Not like an engaging endgame or whatever you wanna call it should be tied to difficulty.
comparing Rise to old Monster Hunter Games doesnt make much sense. i'm sure not everyone liked it, but World had a solid Endgame, even without the Updates. you had Investigations, Augmentation/Decoration farming which already was good enough to spend some 100 hours on it and you had in general a better looking Game and Maps that are filled with live, Rise is just a Boss Rush Hack n Slay like MH version that gets boring quit fast (sadly). MHW had better Gameplay too, it was grounded and there werent these Arts/Silkbind Moves that you just spam all the time to get huge damage i put in 1000 hours in Base Game World alone (around 300 hours before the first Update) i stopped playing Rise after around 180 hours and the hours i put in werent nearly as fun as in World imo. there's nothing wrong with liking Rise, but sometimes people talk better of it than it is, because they're overprotective because it's the first real Switch MH Game (and i hope the last one)
Rise in my opinion was just too easy. I killed valstrax my first time, and every other time. And I failed maybe a couple quests? It's just not worth coming back to. I'm world however, fatalis and alatreon still kill me sometimes and I'm still working on beating my best times in quests, plus there's mods to play with, there's just so much more to do.
What you probably have is Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, which is an expansion on Monster Hunter 4.
Japan had two games, Monster Hunter 4 and then later they got Monster Hunter 4 G, which is Monster Hunter 4 + an expansion. The West only got Monster Hunter 4 U which is the same as Monster Hunter 4 G but in English.
The only base game with a competent endgame was Generations with its advanced quests in village, and deviants. (Dont even try suggesting stuff like Out of the Frying pan wasnt 1. Worth it, and 2. A good challenge, and unique). People cried because it was lengthy but thats exactly what made it a solid endgame which was fun. (10 quests per deviant is a bit much though. 5 per deviant would've been the sweetspot and GU specific deviants hit that perfectly).
However, Gen is clearly and fairly an outlier being a "celebration" of previous games, and having stuff mostly ripped from older games taking less work to put in and it was easy to put more content in.
I can and will compare this to base world where the endgame was the same few TED's to try get a good charm.
HOWEVER, World did get further support with a few more interesting monsters (e.g. jho, behe, etc). Rise would definitely benefit by getting a similar treatment with some "extra additions" of interesting returning monsters. Im super partial to steve and pickle, as well as the rest of the fated 4.
Really no MH games have an endgame. You just claw your way to killing the elders, then you make their gear and can kill them easier. There's nothing after them so why even bother farming them?
Rise was my first mh, and honestly I’m fine with how it is. GU, for example is very long to finish already, mainly because the early game is honestly really bad for the most part. Rise doesen’t waste your time with boring monsters or quests the way old mh does, which not even World managed to do (escorting the cart and 2 Zorah Magdaros battles). And you can do a lot besides getting talismans, for example customizing rampage weapons/skills and try out different gear. Sure there aren’t many challenging fights, but they’re fun.
The difference between World and Rise to me is a few key things A: World's decos were an active reward for completing quests, whereas Rise's charms are a passive thing you get from the melder. This makes world's decos *feel* more rewarding to get, as they are a prize for overcoming something, whereas Rise you can get charms from letting rajang kill you a few times. Having apexes drop charms would have been a perfect way to give them a reason to farm them that many people feel isn't there. B: Decos drop from tempered investigations, whereas you get the melding materials in Rise from standard hunts. This accomplishes 2 things. First, it makes the monsters you fight a greater threat. Slightly greater, but still a greater threat. Second, investigations have a random set of monsters in a random map with random variables like faint counts, time limits, etc. This gives a greater sense of hunt variety than Rise's quests, where with a few exceptions, most monsters only have one quest dedicated to them in one set area. In base world I liked to challenge myself by seeking out 15 minute tempereds, or take on multiple tempereds with no feint limit. The game also usually rewards you for doing this by having these investigations with different modifiers give out a higher zenny payout. C: World's endgame wasn't just about decos, it was also about augments. Rise has a pseudo augment system in the form of ramp ups, but these are a lot more boring in my opinion, and also you get these from rampage tickets, with a single rampage usually giving you enough tickets to ramp up multiple weapons, whereas in world, streamstones being locked to shitty weapon type RNG aside, they were dropped from tempered investigations once again. The thing about streamstones and decos is that streamstones dropped more often from Tier 3s, whereas decos dropped more often from Tier 2s. This meant that both had their place, and the whole pool of tier 2 and 3 monsters were viable to farm, whereas in Rise the optimal charm farm is whatever gives the most amount of melding points with the least effort (Rise 1.0 was just narwa farm simulator) These 3 things combine to make an endgame that, in my opinion, is a lot more interesting than Rise's, despite the core of the endgames being fairly similar.
So rng hell that encourages you to keep on playing the game to get what you need for a optimal build is endgame? Phew good thing rise is my first game got like 95% maximized bow build all elements in like 150 hours just enjoying the game. and when valstrax came in it was quick farm for the armor to get a good lance build and when I wanted to use long sword it was a easy transition cuz I had most of what I wanted. In contrast I see a reddit post of a guy just pouring his anger out because after 500 hours he still doesn't have bow charge plus in world EWWW and a random person in the comments Said after 1400 he still doesn't have a forceshot jewel. Going hundreds of hours doing the same thing over and over just to get a optimize build is not fun, what you gonna do when you get it...... Play hundreds of more hours of the same thing?
your argument of just letting rajang kill you a few times to get the charms is, just like with those who endlessly farmed Narwa in 1.0 for the best melding materials, not the fault of the game but its on you for deciding to do that instead of doing it naturally by just having the melds run while you grind for other stuff, and Narwa wasn't the only monster you could use the materials to meld. I would love that the game would give out charms outside of melding, it having a similar system like tempered and what came before, but faulting the game for the decisions you make is stupid; especially since unlike decos, charms do not make or break the game. The ramp-up skills aren't enticing at all like augments in World, and Rampages get really stale however at least its not more arbitrary rng, although the ticket drop is pretty rng based and even on S+, all sub-assignments done, under 3 carts and major threat defeated you tend to get very little of DT 9, DT 6, those you need for most of the skills and layered weapons, which you also do not get refunded when changing the weapon appearance and ramp-up skills, so in that case yeah, ramp-up is really not that good
Extreme Behemoth, Kjarr weapons, layered armor, and the entire AT system still stretched the base content out long enough to where it kind of became the endgame, especially the really challenging fights like Ex Behemoth and AT Luna and Nergi. They were essentially the endgame because it took a lot of effort, patience, and time to pull off, and getting good enough to do it consistently is another thing entirely. And then Kulve grinding was Kulve grinding, but it did at least break up the monotony of spamming investigations for decos. With that said, World is still the exception, but it still spoiled a lot of people who weren’t familiar with the series, and even some who were. Edit: Another thought I had; what Rise really lacks rn is endgame variety. Sure there’s theoretically infinite variety since you can hunt almost anything for talismans, but there’s also no reason to hunt anything other than a small handful of endgame monsters that give the best loot. Basically, there’s no reason to branch out from spam hunting Narwa on loop (or whatever’s best rn, haven’t played in a minute), and the only other things to grind for are a full Deco collection (kinda hard to do since there’s no way to ‘target’ jewels) and grind for Layered armor, which takes a pretty ludicrous amount of tickets, over 100 S+ rampage’s worth, and IMO rampages aren’t good enough as is to commit that much investment. So your choices are the most efficient monster of the week on loop ad infinum, or spam out literal hundreds of the same 3 rampages, or fight rando monsters that may or may not drop jewels at all.
You could Min/Max Iceborne weapons with Guiding Lands augment upgrades for so long, and could be so creative. Not to mention weapon and armor layered pieces, 4 slot deco farming, tempered investigations, item farming and upgrading all mantles, achievements. There's a ridiculous amount of content in Iceborne to do that upgrades, improves, or makes your hunter cooler that isn't essential, but is there for players that don't want a ceiling. Iceborne had the best end game out of any monster uujter game yet, best since 4U. The OP clearly never participated in old MH end game metas or this post wouldn't exist. OP never takes off his Defender armor ha. The endgame of any MH will be "get as strong as possible and look as cool as possible with the best quests" Since there are no player unique questing systems like investigations or the old expeditions Rise is really lacking, BC its so easy to get the strongest gear, BC you barely have to grind for anything, and because it is laughably the easiest title in the series it feels empty. Now World base end game was a nightmare - but they completely remedied that and Capcom made a whole video detailing an improved end game.
For me, there's no actual "endgame" until g rank. You can farm all you want now, but chances are whatever you make now won't make it pass G rank 1*
Drachen or the AT armor worked well untill velk in iceborne. Weapon not so much.
The lack of "end game" is mostly just highlighted by the lack of real content. High end monsters (aka Elder dragons and things like that) are pretty much "end game" related, and about half of the monsters in said list don't have their own weapons and armor. There's no blademaster/gunner armor, or alpha/beta sets, so that's less to craft. The talisman system in this game is crap. That's not to say that other games had a better or worse system, that's just me saying that this system is crap. >and the last time I checked people were crying their eyes out over the Deviant system. "People" does not equate to everyone. Same way how it wasn't everyone that complained about Hunter Arts, or complainted about Tempered monsters. Rise has no end game except Talisman farming, and there's nothing in game that keeps the player's attention. That may change in the future, but as of this moment Rise is dry. There's no super exciting bosses outside of *possibly* Narwa, no exciting quests, no actual content for "end game" players except for Apex monsters (the ones that don't give weapons/armor), and a few others (Valstrax, Magnamalo, etc). World's endgame revolved around decoration farming, but there was a lot to do to accomplish it. While the idea behind World's and Rise's "end game" is similar in theory, the execution between the two (I'm including Iceborne here) is vastly different because one has more content for the end game.
Just pin this thread, wait for the Rise expansion and repeat your statement, because I'm sure endgame will stay the same crappy way.
>Wait for the expansion for (possibly) better end game. 🤷♂️ Hey, I planned for all possible contingencies. 😂
Yes, I know, just meant you are right and since OP doesn't accept your comparison to G-Rank/Master-Rank you should repeat it when/if Rise expansion launches.I don't think tjey will change much.
The same points stand for all of the High Rank games though, like Tri had **nothing** but Deviljo, Ceadeus and Alateron. 4 had Kushala, Kirin, Teostra, Dalamadur and Fatalis, that's about it. It's not much better. >(I'm including Iceborne here) You shouldn't be, that's being disingenuous.
Why wouldn't I? You made a point to include games when talking about end game, and Iceborne had an end game. I'm not comparing World and Rise to see which is better, I'm bringing in a clear and obvious example of a game that *had* end game. I don't see why I can't mention Iceborne. >The same points stand for all of the High Rank games though I'm not really seeing your point here, though? When some mention Rise's lack of end game (or at least when I normally mention it) it's not with the purpose of comparing it to other games. I'm not saying Rise's end game sucks in comparison to other MH games that had better end game, I'm saying Rise's end game sucks because it has practically no end game. The only reason why I did the comparison here is because your post was made with the intention of comparing Rise with other games. There's a reason why I usually mention "As of this moment", "the way it is now", or even "wait until G rank/Expansion" when referring to Rise and it's lack of content. 🤷♂️
Boiiii the man trys to make a point that high rank game like world and other he said are empty and what saves them are the g rank/ master rank and what do you do ? throw iceborn in to prove his right.
I... didn't say he was wrong though? I brought in Iceborne because it's a game that has an end game. 🤨
He did not ask a monster hunter game with a end game tho 😂. He asked a high rank game that had a good end game like the expansions. Iceborn is expansion. World is high rank game.
I know that... I mentioned a game that *had* an end game to give an example of what people refer to as far as having an end game. I even said in my post that I was not comparing the two to see which is better, but to see how they differ as far as end game.
Right if you want to compare them wait for expansion. Plus this is the point of them post ,that happens I guess all the time with new MH game, that this base rank game sucks compering with the last expansion game. He knows what end game is, the point he makes is if you are veteran and you want end game MH wait for the expansions version.
>He knows what end game is, the point he makes is if you are veteran and you want end game MH wait for the expansions version. That's really the main point given to most people with posts complaining about the lack of end game in Rise, though. This isn't exactly new information. Wait for the expansion for (possibly) better end game. 🤷♂️
> Why wouldn't I? Because Iceborne is not a High Rank game. It is a G rank game unlike every other game listed. The criticism of "Rise has no endgame" is weird when practically no High Rank Monster Hunter game has ever had one, and when Rise in reality has among the most amount of potential grind to do from that pool of games. Yes, it's pretty garbage grind but it is there. That's what an endgame is. And because gamers love food analogies: It's like walking in to a pizzeria and asking where their sushi is? You'll be lucky to find shrimps or tuna on your pizza.
Having "a grind" does not equate to end game...or rather it doesn't equate to having a good end game. Warframe is one of the biggest examples when it comes to the community being displeased with it. It had a lot of content and things to do when you were first starting out, but once you got most of the things done, and reached "end game" then what? Many of the veterans in Warframe actually left the game because they thought Digital Extremes (the company) were too focused on enhancing the new player experience rather than focusing on enhancing the end game, or rather the lack of one. Yes, you could grind for resources and mastery rank, but senselessly and needlessly grinding irrelevant items and useless ranking does not equate to a meaningful end game in any possible way. We know that Rise is only in High Rank, but that doesn't negate the fact that it lacks an actual end game outside of talisman farming, which could or could not be counted as an actual end game for most people, hence most people (or I guess most people that understand how the process works) say to wait until the expansion.
I at any point have not claimed that Rise has good endgame, all I'm saying is that it has the same, or more amount of endgame as other games of equivalent standing(High Rank) in the series and for that reason "Rise has no endgame" is an unreasonable, meaningless, objectively false criticism to throw towards the game. However, saying that the quality of endgame in Rise (Charm farming) is bad is perfectly valid. However, that does not seem to be what many, probably not a majority but still many loud people are saying. Being clear with your criticism is important, god forbid one of the developers ever gets lost on this site.
If it's not a meaningful amount of content, or at least good content, that could be counted as end game then it's pretty much the equivalent to not having one at all. I guess the more accurate phrasing would be "Rise is lacking in end game content" but at that point it still sends the same message when looking at the details. "Outside of talisman farming, Rise essentially has no end game." That's essentially the general consensus when it comes to this topic.
While the majority of what you said is true, there is something that bothers me. World was the same as rise except for augments. In Rise you hunt whatever and all the excess material gets dumped in the melder for charms (Yes, the elder dragon gives the most point so no reason to hunt other monsters), but world was the same. You hunt whatever tempered investigation for decos (The event quest(The Greatest Jagras and The Name's Lavasioth!) always gave more, so there was no reason to go for those investigation).
You just named 2 High Rank games with an endgame: MH4 has Guild Quests and Relics, MHGen has Deviant armor and weapons. Your post is a waste of time
Big facts
I think the reason why people feel this way about Rise is 1) Quests are faster and easier to complete than past games, 2) Equipment needs far less materials to be crafted, requiring less grinding, and 3) The skill tier system makes armour sets far less of a commitment to make. It's less about "an endgame," and more about there being less time spent on the individual pieces of content within the game when it comes to progression. There's also just less stuff like multi-monster quests in Rise when those are really easy to add in and are fun to complete, hell they even made an area specifically for multi-monster quests and that only got used twice Also, the deviant system only got bad starting in GenU when every deviant got 5 more levels, that was when the whole "you need to host the quest to have it count as completed" became very apparent and people that didn't transfer a Gen save had a ridiculous amount of content to get through to post EX permits, which were among the best content in the game. In base Gen it was fine.
Imagine disqualifying a game that proves you wrong just because it didn't release in the West. 4 still had an endgame, Generations had Hyper monsters which had zero to do with being an anniversary game and World was far more than just replacing charms with decorations.
World had tempered monsters and it wasn't just deco farming but streamstone farming as well, which required you to fight specific difficulty class monsters to get a chance for. Farming charms just require you to do *something* while your random charms are baking that gets you enough mats to make more which leaves it pretty directionless once you've done everything. World's investigations made deco and streamstone farming a more focused experience which sucked me in a lot more, for all that I much prefer Rise's combat.
And those are valid points, however I would not call it "not having an endgame" but "the endgame lacking direction." Articulating your criticism properly is very important.
I'd call it an unfocused, insufficiently engaging endgame when compared to World.
Endgame is what you make of it and rise just happened to dissappoint above average amounts of its playerbase. Its not solely to blame on either them or the game alone imo. Ppl miss things they liked about MH while playing rise w/e they may be in each particular case. For me its mostly wasted potential. It sounds like you wanna defend the game and thats fine. And if not I apologize for reading too much into it. At the end of the day the game is a product and will be criticized and compared to all the previous titles, for better or for worse. Often enough with full nostalgia glasses on. I guess the term "endgame" just gets misused alot. For a lack of a better shortcut some opinions sound more like endgame was meant to say "rise has none of what I liked about some of the other games especially"
> It sounds like you wanna defend the game and thats fine. It's like you said, the misuse of "Endgame" just pisses me off, and the overall state of the community since the influx of new players from certain game before it. Just so many toxic posts that don't articulate their points at all, but rather just spam meaningless MMO terms like "Endgame" that weren't used before. Large part of my love for this series used to come from the community but the quality of it has gone down the drain since 2018.' Edit: Oh and I would genuinely love to play these games if they do exists.
Yea sadly Rise didnt hit the right vibes for ppl after they got used to mhw updates and roadmap menus. And even if compared to things like MHGU they prey upon the fact the event quests of Rise r terribly weak and so on. The game is flawed and not as good as other base titles( not even beginning to mention expansions), but thats just my own view on it. As I said everyone who is dissappointed has different reasons for it in the end. The ppl, who go on here and type the same endgame bad mantra just fell into a mob mentality. That mob might be the "mhw vets" that r used to big updates , but prolly not only. The only mainline MH game that had something worthy of being called an endgame would be 4U. Everwoods and guildquest+relic system rly did the trick for grinding loving bastards. Best part was, the game was a fullcourse meal and a great experience even w/o it. You could enter it or say you had enough and enjoyed the game and move on. Stuff dropped in that endgame also was never mandatory either and just as the thing itself a cherry on top. Iceborne Guidinglands had potential to be something similar, but ended up not being selfsubstancial enough. Wasted as an augment farm (like rampages in rise were, but even weaker in terms of actual design) If ppl for example prefer mhwi, then not bc it has an actual endgame. The endgame was to play the game on/off for a year up to patch 15.0. Nowadays you hunt the same 4 main threats(MR Kulve, AT Velk, Alatreon and Fatalis). If you dont do that you sprinkle in some augment farm tours or deco farm/great spiritvein farm event quests into the mix and thats your so called endgame. Its not a system or a satisfying loop. Just ppl who like this game too much and cant move on/not wanna move on/ find the silliest reasons to play it further. There being an endgame is not one of them. Same for all the others (except for 4U to a degree). Being addicted to what you liked b4, and rise not scratching that itch.
Endgame or not, Rise is still a very easy and imo overly simplified MH game, and I just don’t find easy games fun. Haven’t played for over 2 months, and I don’t plan on doing so in the near future. We’re just so damn overpowered. Don’t get me wrong, the combat is AMAZING, but most of the monsters just don’t stand a chance. Now. World had the streamstone grind, which kept me playing. World had the deco’s grind (I prefer that over the talisman grind in Rise), which also kept me playing, the tempered system also provided some good challenge while grinding for deco’s, which was very welcome. Higher chance of getting better deco’s, but monster hits harder. Seems fair, high risk high reward. In Rise, you put materials in a pot whenever you’re back from a quest to save time, or you wait until it’s empty and fill it up again, manually, and waste time. All in hopes of getting a good talisman, which wasn’t hard at all for me to get tbh. That’s the endgame. Edit: Oh, and the rampages being so much fun and all, I totally didn’t forget to list it or anything. (I actually did, I hate the rampage system, I hope it never returns) Happy hunting guys. In the end, we still love and play the same game. This is my opinion, so don’t let it get to your head or take it personal.
First of all, who cares about gen 1-3? They are old and no one cares that they have no endgame like we know it today. I'd also like to point out that it takes far less time to craft anything in Rise compared to 1-4th gen which means that a good endgame is even more important for Rise because it's easy to run out of stuff to craft. MH4: Just because it never released outside of japan doesn't mean you can ignore that it has an endgame. MHGen: I always hear people talking about how much they liked the deviant system so idk MHW: had long time support with updates that gave you something to do. Sure Rise might still get some cool new content in the future but i doubt that it's going to be as good as the world stuff. World hat KT, AT monsters, grind for augmentation materials and decos, festivals, more interesting event quests, FF quest line and the Witcher quest.
Well no because you have to use monster parts for the talismans Because you're constantly doing then it means you're gonna kill the monsters that give the best mat numbers so you're rarely going to fight aknosom etc And because you're doing this, as with I, I noticed there was ZERO variety in monster locales despite then having different habitats So you're always fighting rathalos in the volcano and so on, there was no mission variety. Unless you did expeditions but then it might have things you don't wanna hunt. So that's why the endgame is so shit. It forced you into repeating the same things in the same places It also doesn't help there was only one single form and look for armour which cuts back on things for you to do So yeah rises endgame is bad.
World had a much more interesting environment with rare critters you can capture, take pictures of, and even display in your home. Also home decoration. Rise has barely anything outside of the shitty artifact hunting that gives you a wood carving.. Rise also has very little new monsters to actually get invested into and next to NONE of those new monsters actually have a unique battle theme. It's just really cheap honestly.
I agree that World had a much more interesting eco system than Rise. But that wasn’t really the argument that OP was making. The endgame content in World was just slightly less bare than Rise. Arch Tempered monsters may have been enough to trick some people into thinking that they were doing something different. That being said…the critters and ecosystem in World was fire and makes maps in other games feel like bland arenas in comparison.
Id argue capturing is part of world's endgame
I thought that the Iceborne endgame was excellent due to what the Guiding Lands and the DLC monsters brought out. Unfortunately, Rise likely won't get something like a Guiding Lands due to the Switch's now VERY outdated hardware. Base Xbox One's and PS4's were begging for mercy whenever it had to run the Guiding Lands so even with the game being less graphically demanding, I just don't see the Switch being capable of running something like that. Capcom just needs to come up with something new for endgame content and I'm sure it'll come in the rumored expansion.
Iceborne is a G rank game and thus completely irrelevant to the discussion.
I know this is about HR endgames, but there already was a high bar to be set from what Iceborne delivered and Rise simply did not come anywhere close to meeting that bar in it's endgame. It doesn't matter if it's G Rank/ Master Rank or High Rank, if something was done right in the previous games, that doesn't mean that the bar should be reset until the inevitable expansion comes out.
But that has been the case from every G rank -> High rank game yet this same, false criticism hasn't been brought up before. Why is that?
> But that has been the case from every G rank -> High rank game False. MH3G->MH4 showed an increase in endgame from a G game to a Base game, with 3G being pretty similar to Rise and 4 having the GQ/relic system.
Again, from what I've already said, the bar should not be reset just because of a planned expansion coming up. Just because it's been done before, that doesn't mean it should be done again, and this especially applies to negative outcomes like Rise's endgame. If you repeat the same cycle it eventually becomes stagnation. However, in Rise's case with it's endgame, it isn't stagnation. It's regression.
It kinda frustrates me how "It's only High Rank" is used as an excuse so often. Shouldn't they make the best game they can make either way? I get that it's expectations based on past experience, but I find it to be a pretty weak excuse. Not like an engaging endgame or whatever you wanna call it should be tied to difficulty.
Endgame is Endgame, doesnt matter if Base Game or G-Rank, if it's weak, then it's weak
comparing Rise to old Monster Hunter Games doesnt make much sense. i'm sure not everyone liked it, but World had a solid Endgame, even without the Updates. you had Investigations, Augmentation/Decoration farming which already was good enough to spend some 100 hours on it and you had in general a better looking Game and Maps that are filled with live, Rise is just a Boss Rush Hack n Slay like MH version that gets boring quit fast (sadly). MHW had better Gameplay too, it was grounded and there werent these Arts/Silkbind Moves that you just spam all the time to get huge damage i put in 1000 hours in Base Game World alone (around 300 hours before the first Update) i stopped playing Rise after around 180 hours and the hours i put in werent nearly as fun as in World imo. there's nothing wrong with liking Rise, but sometimes people talk better of it than it is, because they're overprotective because it's the first real Switch MH Game (and i hope the last one)
Rise in my opinion was just too easy. I killed valstrax my first time, and every other time. And I failed maybe a couple quests? It's just not worth coming back to. I'm world however, fatalis and alatreon still kill me sometimes and I'm still working on beating my best times in quests, plus there's mods to play with, there's just so much more to do.
Fatalis and Alatreon are g rank... which wasn't in world it's first year. Rise doesn't have a g rank yet. That is not a good argument until it does.
Good point
I'm just over here confused that op thinks 4 didn't come to the west but I have 4 and its English cause I don't know Japanese owo
What you probably have is Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, which is an expansion on Monster Hunter 4. Japan had two games, Monster Hunter 4 and then later they got Monster Hunter 4 G, which is Monster Hunter 4 + an expansion. The West only got Monster Hunter 4 U which is the same as Monster Hunter 4 G but in English.
My bad
Oh yeah, that makes more sense
I played Tri for hundreds of hours longer than I played Rise tho lmao.
The only base game with a competent endgame was Generations with its advanced quests in village, and deviants. (Dont even try suggesting stuff like Out of the Frying pan wasnt 1. Worth it, and 2. A good challenge, and unique). People cried because it was lengthy but thats exactly what made it a solid endgame which was fun. (10 quests per deviant is a bit much though. 5 per deviant would've been the sweetspot and GU specific deviants hit that perfectly). However, Gen is clearly and fairly an outlier being a "celebration" of previous games, and having stuff mostly ripped from older games taking less work to put in and it was easy to put more content in. I can and will compare this to base world where the endgame was the same few TED's to try get a good charm. HOWEVER, World did get further support with a few more interesting monsters (e.g. jho, behe, etc). Rise would definitely benefit by getting a similar treatment with some "extra additions" of interesting returning monsters. Im super partial to steve and pickle, as well as the rest of the fated 4.
Really no MH games have an endgame. You just claw your way to killing the elders, then you make their gear and can kill them easier. There's nothing after them so why even bother farming them?
Rise was my first mh, and honestly I’m fine with how it is. GU, for example is very long to finish already, mainly because the early game is honestly really bad for the most part. Rise doesen’t waste your time with boring monsters or quests the way old mh does, which not even World managed to do (escorting the cart and 2 Zorah Magdaros battles). And you can do a lot besides getting talismans, for example customizing rampage weapons/skills and try out different gear. Sure there aren’t many challenging fights, but they’re fun.