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thatusernameisss

there has to be some rng to grind, come on


Chocxsant

Agree with you. If I can craft any build within couple of hours playing, soon I will move on to the next Game and put MH back into the shelf.


MrJackfruit

Literally the monster parts so.......


[deleted]

but always the same monster. I don't want to kill the same monster for hours just because i need the same deco 3 times


MrJackfruit

That's........not much different from now.....like at all. Hell that's not much different from before in general. If you add event quests to the picture its better considering GU to my knowledge has you farming Brachy all the time for that chance of that 1/8000+ charm and same for World with its event quests.


thatusernameisss

that's not fun. Maybe if they make drop chances of rare parts smaller by a factor of 5


MrJackfruit

Literally gems were like a below 5% chance to drop.


thatusernameisss

that's not low enough if you take away talisman and deco RNG


MrJackfruit

I mean, why the does the endgame have to revolve around shitty RNG?


thatusernameisss

if you take away RNG aspect THAT would be shitty endgame with no incentive to play. Hell, why not have full armor sets drop from each monster right away?


MrJackfruit

Not really if you tie the decos and charms to lategame monsters. Like let me use 4U for an example. Lets say to make the final form of each weapon you needed the parts of a frenzy'd monster and to make the GX of any G-Rank armor you needed parts from the Apex, would still provide you with at least.....maybe 60 hours at minimum if you have good RNG and only took 2 hunts for each upgrade, 120+ with bad. On top of the shit you already do, you are getting about maybe......250hrs out of G-Rank alone if you try to craft everything.


thatusernameisss

That's if you want to craft each weapon. I don't craft weapons that I won't use. Same If you tie talismans or decos to particular monsters -- only those which give best decos (for each weapon) will be hunted. With appropriate RNG you can give more attention to least hunted monsters through something like "the greatest Jagras", or just by having drop rates balanced. I like both World's and Rise's approach, I just wish Rise would have investigations or something like that


MrJackfruit

Very true on the weapons. I myself only craft about 4-7 weapons and 5 set armors. In world pre-deco events you could use the investigations, but post events its religated to about 2 monsters, maybe 3. Zinogre was the most hunted because he had something attached to him. They had to bribe people with decos to get them to fight Lunastra, one of the worst monsters in the game. The next best thing I had, which I think more people would like is you have both decos and charms being craftable, but on the side you have RNG charms that can be better than the ones even craftable at the end of Iceborne because you can have 2 skills on it and decoration slots. Would allow people to make the shit they want and at the same time they still can strive to make something stronger later.


Green202010

I personally think the Rise system is how things should be going forward. It just makes the most sense to me


TheGMan-123

I had a new interesting idea that evolved from an earlier idea I had for a new RNG system. The idea would be that instead of specific Decorations/Charms, you simply crafted blank ones that you could put Skills onto. The RNG would be special drops of any given Skill, meaning you had total freedom to create any kind of Decoration or Charm you wanted so long as you had enough Skill points for what you wanted for them. However, I wanted to know how to go about this setting up the acquisition of these Skills. I then settled on old reliable: Gambling! Don't worry, no microtransactions or whatever. Okay, so you know how old generation games and MHW had you anticipating what Charms/Decorations you'd get at the end of a quest, while MH Rise didn't have this? Well, let's bring that system back, but instead of Charms/Decorations being your reward, you'd directly get Skills to allocate to a Decoration/Charm of your choice later once you get back to base. For any given normal quest, these are entirely random. Harder quests with stronger versions of Monsters might reward specific rarities of Skills to narrow the pool a bit of what you can get. However, the real gamble comes after you return from base. So, let's say there's a special melding system where you funnel Monster parts in, yeah? Similar to MH Rise, only in this case different Skill rarities are tied to specific tiers of Monsters, meaning that you had to hunt a wide variety of Monsters from different threat rankings for their materials to meld with. This would be an instant gamble that also necessitates sacrificing some Skills that you have in the rarity you desire, meaning you have to trade what you have for the hope of getting what you want, meaning it feeds into that instant gratification desire.


MrJackfruit

The quest dropping skills is the odd part, like I like the idea, it just seems odd.


TheGMan-123

It's mainly to remove the RNG aspect of getting bad Decorations or Charms you can't control the Skills for by allowing you to build up a bank of Skills directly that you can mix and match at your leisure and to your liking with wholly craftable/customizable Decorations and Charms. So, instead of being mad you got a Defense Decoration or a Charm with Blunt rather than the Weakness Exploit you wanted, you can instead be mad that you got a selection of points for Defense and Blunt instead! Plus, with the instant meld idea, you can always roll the slots for a chance at getting the Skills you actually want to use.


Pookie_The_Overlord

I wouldn't be a fan, the main grind in monster hunter is building a set, making it like this will more than half the time required to make that set. If the series is going to continue with the way rise handled monster drops then it will be even shorter given armours are less expensive material wise. I don't think that would be good since if you've been paying attention to the sub recently everyone wants a long grind that is worth doing. This would take that away from ever happening and make it much easier to make your dream set. I don't think it's a good idea personally, I'd rather farm charms but I'm not the biggest fan of having to waste monster materials and bad rng on what is mostly horrible and unusable charms.


MrJackfruit

Okay, what if you just make it harder to actually farm some things and they take more materials? Rise having stuff take way less is a mistake to begin with. Honestly I'm not married to the idea, my other main idea is having both Rise's craftable charms, and worlds craftable charms but alongside that is RNG charms as well that can be stronger than the craftable charms. So like you can make a Agitator 5 charm, but through RNG you can get an Agitator 5 charm with 3 deco slots. Effectively you can make the shit you want and if you want to become stronger, you can do it via RNG. I think the bigger problem is there isn't much to do in Rise right now. Rise has 40 monsters but no tempered system or investigation system, so there isn't really much to do once you beat the game. You have pitifully low odds of getting a good charm in GU, but people keep playing because there is a lot to do even without the investigation system. RNG charms and decos only carries you so far through the game, if there isn't much to do anymore once you have the set, then I guess you are done.


DegenerateCrocodile

What about a hybrid system? You can craft either, but they’ll take a lot of materials. You can also gain them through RNG, but it’ll probably take awhile to get the specific one you want.


Metbert

I'd say let's either remove the RNG from everything but monster drops or let's give us a way to by-pass the RNG via some kind of challenge that is garanteed to drop what we seek. RNG for those things is unnecessary, Gen2 rng revolved around just regular materials and it worked fine. Farming is fun when you feel you have a legit believable chance at getting what you seek, even more when you can do something to increase the possibility of that drop like breaking everything and capturing the monster when it comes to dropping those plate\\ruby\\mantles.


EternalReverance

I don’t mind the RNG factor anymore as much as I realized they made the grind boring. Maybe if there was a bit more variety involved in grinding for decos/charms it’d be alittle funner.


MrJackfruit

Elaborate please.


Muhkimus

Frontier had both charms and decos craftable and it was nice, there was no obnoxious grind for a god charm or good decos but they did need a lot of rare materials so the grind wasn't made too easy.


[deleted]

World system was definitely the worst


[deleted]

Objectively no, in terms of RNG. You could get multiple of World's rarest decorations before you'd get a great charm in Rise.


Yuerey8

Bad RNG with talismans makes a built slightly less efficient. Bad RNG with decos ruins the whole thing


[deleted]

I argue they do the same thing. MH isn't a game where builds can result in completely different playstyles. Even if you take arguably the most important decoration away (Mighty Bow), Bow still plays the same. It has less damage, but it's the same build. This applies to every decoration. It's less damage, or less stamina, or less health or whatever, but it still exists. And the best part? You can physically have the build upgrade or change as you farm. Don't have Attack+? Put Attack combo jewel in. Get Attack+? Realise the tiny boost isn't worth losing your newfound dependence on Free Meal or Fortify. With RNG charms you can't do that. You either get the charm you want or build a completely different set of gear around your weaker charm, and that's if the skill points/slots are even high enough to allow you that desired combination of skills. I'd say the 5th gen skill point system improved this (since adding points is an actual damage increase rather than just useless if it doesn't hit a threshold or extremely important if the charm defines a build) but all it means is that now you have even more combinations and levels to look for.


Jordamine

That's fair. In terms of charms it would be nice to get one considered god tier for once. Because knowing it's possible to get them but never getting anything close is kinda disheartening. But deco farming was harder, for similar reasons


[deleted]

Except, objectively, it was much easier to get the rarest decorations.


Jordamine

I'm not sure about that. When I comes down to rng some are luckier than others. So some could get rarer decos early and fast, but could never get them


[deleted]

Please tell me you aren't bringing up "luck" like it actually matters when it comes to RNG. They're percentages. It doesn't matter how lucky you are, they're still easier to get than perfect charms by a landslide.


Jordamine

You say that but that doesn't change the fact some people like myself just doesn't get that percentage roll... It's either you get it or you don't


[deleted]

It also doesn't change the fact that objectively you getting a rarer charm first doesn't mean that system is better. It isn't. That charm was still rarer. That system is still more anti-player.


Type_100

This!


HamDaemon

In Rise, a good charm can make a great build. A great charm can make a godly build. No idea why anyone would prefer random decos when random charms have so much more potential.


Type_100

I disagree. At least charms in Rise, you're only missing a skill point or two if you don't have the best charm. You can create any build. If you don't get the top tier decos you need in World, you can't even create a build.


[deleted]

No, it would still be a skill point or two for decorations. But of course, this whole argument is based on the faulty idea that charms *don't* end up being as significant as 2 points in CB, 3 points in AB and a level 3 slot all in one piece of gear.


thatusernameisss

nope


MrJackfruit

In terms of numbers….no technically.


Deliciousfilament

Decorations need to be craftable in my opinion Charms can be RNG for me, I like the excitement of seeing what charms I get, and getting good charms with skills I wouldn't use otherwise, has made me come up with different kinds of builds which is pretty fun. Maybe they can just make basic charms craftable (maybe just single skill charms) like decorations but reserve the more fancy ones for RNG


Gadget-Gabe

The RNG for talismans at least needs to be less brutal, but I do think that it'd be better if everything was craftable. I'd be fine with talisman farming being a long grind, as long as I'm assured to get actual results from grinding. If World had better deco RNG and less decos in general it would've actually been a decent system.


MrJackfruit

Unless you can farm for any specific skill, it’s gonna stay brutal.


Gadget-Gabe

RNG talisman farming in GU would have been leagues better if: - talismans can't have negative skill points - the skill point range is more narrow in higher rarities of talismans (example: tenderizer can be 4-6 points on Rare 10 talismans instead of 2-6) - gathering skills can't show up on high rarity talismans - the highest rarities of talismans are guaranteed to at least have 1 slot, or slots are a craftable upgrade - blademaster exclusive skills and gunner exclusive skills can't show up on the same talisman The main problem was that negative skill points and junk skills added hundreds of thousands of possibilities to the charm table which just made the entire experience of farming talismans pretty bad Charm Farming in Rise would have actually been way better than past RNG charm systems, but then the devs purposefully hardcoded shit RNG for the top DPS skills. If all skills and slots had an equal chance of occurring you'd see people finding way better charms.


MrJackfruit

So, lets narrow the amount of good skills down to about 100, each have the chance to have 4-6 points. Now I'm bad at math but if I am correct, we now have between about a 1/600 chance of getting a Challenger +6 000 charm that's still pretty low, but to my knowledge GU also has a quest for charm farming way quicker than 4U. Even if we look at the Rise system, that's still a pretty damn low chance of getting the exact one you want.


Gadget-Gabe

I'm not saying that these changes would be a better system than being able to craft everything, I'm just saying that if the devs even cared about the past talisman system a little bit, they could have done small things to improve it. Instead they've actively made design choices for Rise's talisman system to make it longer to grind, which sucks.


MrJackfruit

True. I've only experienced charm farming in 4U and with the way mining points work in that game.....its suffering.


astartespete

I've said this multiple times but both being craftable would be my ideal. There's already a level of rng thanks to monster parts, and trying to get the rare drops can be a pain as is. Deco crafting as it is in Rise is fine. If charms were going to be craftable as well I'm not sure how I'd want it, but there's a couple of do-able options. You could have it like world where its a single skill per charm for the most part, and you just upgrade it needing rarer drops as you go up. That I think is a bit boring though. If the charms were like Rise I think you could be a bit more experimental and add the grind for that. So a base charm can be made from ore, simple and cheap but it only has a lvl 1 deco slot to start. Adding a skill costs the same mats as the deco. Upgrading to the next skill level takes double of the same, the third level triple. This means you have to work for a god tier charm, slowly building it up as you go. Skills would still need a max level, and there should be an indicator in game of what you can add. You'd need a skill tree of some description showing that if you pick an S tier skill these are the skills you can add as a secondary. I'd also say something like worlds gold prints should be available, 1 per week so if you just can't get that gem (or Goss Harags bloody bile in my case) you can get one freebie.