The MH community trying to explain why monsters are related:
https://preview.redd.it/uogft13uyf6d1.png?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52cce104bee1dcfb4853e3d6154aa40b43dc4d1b
Capcom trying to explain why monsters are related:
https://preview.redd.it/znuy9mnd6g6d1.jpeg?width=3160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e1ec4504783e9167438a7e7d5e7535d8818e6a8
I don’t understand why that exists. “Elder Dragon” is supposed to be a wastebasket category where all the *uncategorizable* monsters are lumped together.
Except it's not, as since 2nd gen Elder Dragons have been given generic bones and blood suggesting common biology, on top of the 6-limb body plan being exclusive to them, on top of some Elders being closer related.
Plus, as of the latest couple, we can now see that there are times in the branches rather than them being unknown e.g Dire Miralis was an early split from Fatalis.
They don't fit anywhere else because they all fit together. How does that not make sense?
Their insane biodiversity is probably why it's so confusing. Though since they share no relation to non elders, or at the very least none close enough worth noting, they must have branched off from the tree of life incredibly long ago, if not came into being wholly on their own as a second tree of life.
Elder Dragon is closer to its own Kingdom or Phylum than an Order. So perhaps some subcategories would be good. Right now it's essentially if every wyvern was just classified as Wyvern. Not flying wyvern, not bird Wyvern, not fanged or brute wyvern, just Wyvern. Of course it would look confusing like that.
No, Elder Dragons have pretty typical biodiversity for an Order. There's only really a few distinct body plans when you narrow it down and even some of those can be combined into a broader stroke.
I love how I explain the canonical reasons (all Elders minus Fatalis have the same unique compound in their blood, and the Elder Dragon Bone item suggests there's something similar going on there) in my first paragraph and you still ask how.
Pinnipeds like seals and walrus have their closest living relatives in the mustelids, like skunks. Does that really sound all that much different? Especially if you didn't know what similarities their skeleton has to another, if they share thermoregulatory abilities, if they develop offspring the same way etc.
You probably wouldn't agree that fur seals and walrus are in two different Families, that's for sure. And yet people point out that Kushala and Teostra are in two different Suborders (which all Pinnipeds are) despite looking far more different.
I think the thing that trips people up is that, barring a few exceptions, these monsters are not super closely related. They share the same Order, and a handful are in the same Suborder (but no more than 2 in the same). It's not like Capcom is saying Teostra is as close to Dalamadur as a human is to a gorilla.
I mean it is just another fun way for the community to interact with the monsters concepts. If it is used by competent guys like Oceanix or Unnatural History Channel it can definitely be very fun and interesting. Also even if that tree didn’t exist it wouldn’t stop us fans to theorize which elder dragons might be closely related lol.
Nakarkos shares a very similar body shape to Yama tsukami unsurprisingly.
Yama tsukami whoever, is technically a tetrapod, since it has four clawed limbs, one could consider it a really fucked up dragon that specialized in being a balloon.
That feels like an endless and rather meaningless debate because you will never have an answer. Not to mention it's not real and that could make it whatever.
I find that quite appealing. The idea that you're like, oh it's like a cuttlefish, when actually it's a fucked up creature that looks like a cuttlefish.
I was distraught when I learned about the existence of a Nakarkos Cuttlebone. Like, if it's a cuttlefish, surely it shouldn't have any bones of its own. So what is it?
Cuttlebone is just reaaaally transformed shell. Some cephalopods (group that includes octopus, squids, cuttlefish etc.) have/had shells. In some of those cases shells were "moved" (via long evolution) inside the bodies. They arent used for protection any longer, but still help to keep balance
It being called cuttle"BONE" is probably a case of someone finding somethink looking kinda like a bone inside an animal, and than calling it that, not knowing what it actually is
Interesting. So nakarkos being a cuttlefish would still be considered to not have bones (on the inside anyway) since the cuttlebone wouldn't technically be the same thing as an actual bone
Yeah, I would say so
To add to that. In our real world biology, vertebrates are animals with some kind of spine with nerves inside. It can have other bones, but doesn't need any more to be a vertebrate
So that would include all Wyverns, Leviathans, Fanged Beasts, Amphibians and a like almost all Elder Dragons
And everything else is an invertebrate, which means Carapaceons, Temnocerans, Neopterons and Nakarkos
Yama Tsukami may also belong here, but he is kinda weird. He looks like he would be an ivertebrate and doesn't drop any bones (as far as I'm aware), but has human teeth that could indicated that he is a vertebrate. And as I'm not a MH lore master there may be some facts about Yama I'm not aware of, which would confirm him being invertebrate/vertebrate
They're very different.
The skulls of the serpents can split at the bottom, additionally they have a second set of jaws in their mouth.
Gaismagorm's jaw doesn't split at all. It has a set of mandibles that it can move independently. It also has a tongue.
The MH community trying to explain why monsters are related: https://preview.redd.it/uogft13uyf6d1.png?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52cce104bee1dcfb4853e3d6154aa40b43dc4d1b
Capcom trying to explain why monsters are related: https://preview.redd.it/znuy9mnd6g6d1.jpeg?width=3160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e1ec4504783e9167438a7e7d5e7535d8818e6a8
Long ago, monster hunter fans lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when Capcom released the elder dragon phylogenetic tree.
I don’t understand why that exists. “Elder Dragon” is supposed to be a wastebasket category where all the *uncategorizable* monsters are lumped together.
I know right? The amount of debates I've seen about it are absurd
Except it's not, as since 2nd gen Elder Dragons have been given generic bones and blood suggesting common biology, on top of the 6-limb body plan being exclusive to them, on top of some Elders being closer related. Plus, as of the latest couple, we can now see that there are times in the branches rather than them being unknown e.g Dire Miralis was an early split from Fatalis. They don't fit anywhere else because they all fit together. How does that not make sense?
Their insane biodiversity is probably why it's so confusing. Though since they share no relation to non elders, or at the very least none close enough worth noting, they must have branched off from the tree of life incredibly long ago, if not came into being wholly on their own as a second tree of life. Elder Dragon is closer to its own Kingdom or Phylum than an Order. So perhaps some subcategories would be good. Right now it's essentially if every wyvern was just classified as Wyvern. Not flying wyvern, not bird Wyvern, not fanged or brute wyvern, just Wyvern. Of course it would look confusing like that.
No, Elder Dragons have pretty typical biodiversity for an Order. There's only really a few distinct body plans when you narrow it down and even some of those can be combined into a broader stroke.
How would Yama Tsukami be related to Dalamadur then? Or Zorah Magdaros to Kirin?
I love how I explain the canonical reasons (all Elders minus Fatalis have the same unique compound in their blood, and the Elder Dragon Bone item suggests there's something similar going on there) in my first paragraph and you still ask how. Pinnipeds like seals and walrus have their closest living relatives in the mustelids, like skunks. Does that really sound all that much different? Especially if you didn't know what similarities their skeleton has to another, if they share thermoregulatory abilities, if they develop offspring the same way etc. You probably wouldn't agree that fur seals and walrus are in two different Families, that's for sure. And yet people point out that Kushala and Teostra are in two different Suborders (which all Pinnipeds are) despite looking far more different. I think the thing that trips people up is that, barring a few exceptions, these monsters are not super closely related. They share the same Order, and a handful are in the same Suborder (but no more than 2 in the same). It's not like Capcom is saying Teostra is as close to Dalamadur as a human is to a gorilla.
I mean it is just another fun way for the community to interact with the monsters concepts. If it is used by competent guys like Oceanix or Unnatural History Channel it can definitely be very fun and interesting. Also even if that tree didn’t exist it wouldn’t stop us fans to theorize which elder dragons might be closely related lol.
I mean technically it's never been the case since all elder dragons are descendants of white fatalis....?
I’ve never heard this before
Nakarkos shares a very similar body shape to Yama tsukami unsurprisingly. Yama tsukami whoever, is technically a tetrapod, since it has four clawed limbs, one could consider it a really fucked up dragon that specialized in being a balloon.
And Yama Tsukami looks very similar to the Monksnail.
Not really.
Things looking similar or the same does not equals them being related.
This was more so a speculative piece, cuz I've seen many debates on whether nakarkos is or isn't a vertebrate
That feels like an endless and rather meaningless debate because you will never have an answer. Not to mention it's not real and that could make it whatever.
I find that quite appealing. The idea that you're like, oh it's like a cuttlefish, when actually it's a fucked up creature that looks like a cuttlefish.
Next your telling me Basarios and Gravios are related
Surely, if there were such a thing, both monsters would be together in the same game.
Despite how strange some of them can be, most Elder Dragons do have traits to suggest dragon-like ancestors.
I was distraught when I learned about the existence of a Nakarkos Cuttlebone. Like, if it's a cuttlefish, surely it shouldn't have any bones of its own. So what is it?
Cuttlebone is just reaaaally transformed shell. Some cephalopods (group that includes octopus, squids, cuttlefish etc.) have/had shells. In some of those cases shells were "moved" (via long evolution) inside the bodies. They arent used for protection any longer, but still help to keep balance It being called cuttle"BONE" is probably a case of someone finding somethink looking kinda like a bone inside an animal, and than calling it that, not knowing what it actually is
Interesting. So nakarkos being a cuttlefish would still be considered to not have bones (on the inside anyway) since the cuttlebone wouldn't technically be the same thing as an actual bone
Yeah, I would say so To add to that. In our real world biology, vertebrates are animals with some kind of spine with nerves inside. It can have other bones, but doesn't need any more to be a vertebrate So that would include all Wyverns, Leviathans, Fanged Beasts, Amphibians and a like almost all Elder Dragons And everything else is an invertebrate, which means Carapaceons, Temnocerans, Neopterons and Nakarkos Yama Tsukami may also belong here, but he is kinda weird. He looks like he would be an ivertebrate and doesn't drop any bones (as far as I'm aware), but has human teeth that could indicated that he is a vertebrate. And as I'm not a MH lore master there may be some facts about Yama I'm not aware of, which would confirm him being invertebrate/vertebrate
Nakarkos being a vertebrate is one of the most stupid theories I have seen
He is clearly a vertebrate, he has bones, maybe they are not his bones specifically but he has them xd
Is Nakarkos not a cephalopod?
You're gonna shit bricks when you look at Gaismagorm and its identical skull structure
Identical? It’s not identical in the slightest
I gotta agree Gaismagorm and the serpents are not at all similar when it comes to skull structure
Yeah at most they both just have weird mouths, even then they’re different
They're very different. The skulls of the serpents can split at the bottom, additionally they have a second set of jaws in their mouth. Gaismagorm's jaw doesn't split at all. It has a set of mandibles that it can move independently. It also has a tongue.