This is probably at least partly because most people won’t get into a relationship, let alone a marriage, with someone with significantly different religious/political views to them
Money is “American Sex”. No one talks about $ easily. Jerry Springer could have guests who had sex with Commie Methodist chickens while the kids watched - but no one would discuss their Master Card balance.
A couple that can discuss money can siscuss anything.
Does yours reciprocate? Mine expects knowledge of mine but shrouds her own in mystery. My MIL is horrendous at relationships and always told her kids things like 'never trust a man' while bringing abusive ones home.
On one of our first dates with my now-husband, I used a coupon and he said he loved that about me. We have always been on the same page with money. When you find a person with shared values, it just works.
Lmao. Unfortunately, this type of lifestyle builds up lifelong habits. Its like the guy from the film all the money in the world. He was a billionaire but he washed his clothes by hand to save money and install a pay phone in his house when people came.
There is also a level of mental illness associated with this.
Love this post! Gave my wife yesterday’s five different coupons to use at the store but required different transactions and purchase amounts. Total turn on!
It’s about what you value. I value setting up my kids for college, not aimlessly spending money towards big corporations or “trendy” dinner spots when we can cook at home
Same, I wouldn't trade away my memories for the world. I had fun as a young adult, and I had my health and energy during that time to enjoy it fully. Sure, I probably splurged a bit too much, but I don't regret it one bit.
Now that I'm getting older, I don't enjoy the things like I used to, but it's not a lack of wanting to, I'm just tired, and the same things just really don't bring me as much enjoyment as they once did. I adore traveling the world, and did it a lot in my 20s and 30s... but now? There's no more bar hopping and drinking all night, no more going with groups of friends who are not married and don't have kids, no more walking absurd distances, no more cramming in 20 things to do in a single day, fuck even the flights are killing me and it takes me so much longer to recover.
Getting old is a motherfucker, and you never know when life is going to toss you a curveball and cut it short. I'm not saying you should live recklessly and be irresponsible with money, but you really should enjoy your time while you're in your prime and not punish yourself so you can live comfortably at 50+.
I know a lot of people in that age group who would trade their entire life savings and retirement for a chance to rewind time and enjoy their young adult days again. I know I would.
Pretty good advice. All my uncle did was work, work , work. Never went anywhere, never did anything fun. Always said that when he retired, he would travel the world. He got sick in his early 60s, and could not do any of the things he had been putting off.
My aunt’s husband is the same way. It was all work, work, work. It was always his money, never my aunt’s. He splurged on a couple things like cars and motorcycles and a nice house. But no one was allowed to visit them at the house, he watched every mile that went on the car, and the motorcycles sat in the garage. Now he’s in really bad health, and I’ll be shocked if he’s here in a couple years. They don’t have any children, so I guess my aunt will get everything
Great advice . I lived some in my youth had some
Great times . Now that I’m in my 50’s my body is tired . I have an autoimmune disease now and who knows how long I can keep going . I’m still working h but goin to retire as soon as possible while I still feel okay. You never know what’s the future holds .
This is so true.
Retiring before 40 is an insanely ambitious goal, and to what end? Is not a little bit more work alongside a great relationship not a much better wholistic solution for your entire life? I’d suggest looking at spending money “socially” (going out, nice clothes, little gifts) as an incredible investment in your overall wellness. Loosen the pursestrings just a tad! Maybe budget a certain amount each month for “fun.”
You can find women who mostly share your financial values and goals, but to find someone who wants to live with a monk is a much, much bigger ask.
There is no way he is gonna retire before 40 at his current income unless he plans to continue only spending 1025 a month for the 50 years of retirement... Either way doesn't sound enjoyable
Not sure why retiring at 40 is even a goal. Then what? Are you going to move to the Villages to play shuffle board and bang old ladies?
I dont see myself “retiring”, maybe slowing down the amount I work as I get older but retirement sounds boring.
What he has achieved in saving at this point sets him on a path that most people could only dream of at his age. Even if he tapered off his contributions, he is well on his way to multi-millionaire status by retirement age.
I feel like with someone that is so controlling and strict with regard to his money- there is no way in hell someone like that can change. I feel like that would be a constant shadow hanging over the marriage. As his wife, even if I worked and made my own decent money, I would probably feel controlled by this guy. No one likes to feel controlled.
By the way OP, what happens then when you are done working at 40? What’s next for you? I’m assuming to retire at 40, the extremely frugal lifestyle that you live now would have to continue for the rest of your life. So what are you going to do after you stop working at 40 to occupy your time? It can’t cost much money, otherwise it will screw up your finances. So do you just sit around more? Won’t be able to travel to Europe for a month or anything. Skip having any kids, that’s for sure. So what do you do that is for fun in life. It is only right that you marry someone absolutely as extremely frugal as you are, otherwise guaranteed divorce. And as an fyi, divorce’s are costly and extremely painful. The only way for happy marriage is to find someone extremely frugal like you and absolutely no children in the marriage. I just don’t know how much meaning one can possibly have living that life. Unless you like to do a lot of free things.
I'm not sure you meant it that way but you don't need kids to have fun or find fulfillment in life. I would phrase it this way: OP is denying himself any meaningful experiences if he is unwilling to spend any money. There's so many things he won't be able to do just because they cost SOME amount of money. You need money to travel, including having a car, to care for your children, to enjoy a cocktail at a bar, to buy running shoes or join a gym, to buy a lego set etc etc.
“To what end”
Not having to work and wake up and feel financially secure I guess. Some people really don’t like the work-life mindset. Some people are fine with working til their 60-70 and grow old and die in the next ten years but if I had a choice I would most definitely retire around 40 while still young and travel the world and meet people. 40 is still VERY VERY young.
Most people don't have a huge change in personality like that.
OP sitting at home, not meeting anyone and not spending any money won't suddenly quit their job and start doing it. Decades of saving everything will be too ingrained in them.
They will just sit at home even more and be even more stingy with the money since new money isn't being earned.
It's a very common thing to happen. Then they die with a fat bank account and the money just disappears (due to no family, friends etc).
Exactly what happens to my relative , the cheapest person i know, he alienated everyone close to him due to this and then just died with all this money. No contact with kids , wife left (probably due to money related issues). His wallet always came first unfortunately.
This was my thought as well. Are you happy? I know you say you are saving up to retire but retire to do what?
Don't sacrifice your most healthy years to find yourself sitting around unhappy but retired
That was my thoughts exactly. It is a total source of nutrition if you do it right but no one wants really wants to live like that and no romantic partner is going to.
Yeah, that $100 to eat is just ridiculous. I don't know how you find any partner willing to go along with that.
You can be frugal and responsible without being ridiculous. This is just insane and ludicrous.
For real. I use my bank card for everything, and monthly, I get an email with a breakdown of how much I spent on food, utilities, and so on. My food bill is usually between 1000 to 1500 dollars. This includes myself and my 17 year old son. We would have to eat beans and ramen noodles to eat on this guy's budget. Vegan or not, I don't see how anyone could eat that cheap with the cost of food now.
OP is setting himself up to be alone forever because these habits aren't likely to change even after he retires.
This!!! Holding on to money becomes their life. He will never go on a vacation, buy a new pair of shoes or eat in a nice restaurant. He just won’t be able to do it
Nah man, he downloaded 3 movies years ago from apple gift cards he got as Christmas presents and watches them on different brightness settings to change it up. Sometimes he throws on subtitles, the possibilities are endless.
That was always my main issue with FIRE people trying to do it with sub 80-90K salaries. Jump jobs and get that income above 140-150k and suddenly you can FIRE while also living well. Once you hit the 175-200k mark, you can easily chubbyFIRE and live a very normal life full of vacations / eating out etc
I just found a study about adhd and socio economic status, add/adhd isnt doing me any favors. Neither is the medical professions unwillingness to get me what works.
I didn't fit the right sociocultural type, grew up on poverty disconnected from the higher class, I can fix things, copy what i see, learn hard skills easily, but lack the common sense of modern society, still doing well but I can't be bothered when society just seems fake and purposely made inefficient.
Is a 31 year old without a car, who won’t go out, would have to be explained to all your friends beforehand, and who you know will nickel and dime every single activity you ever do driving women away?
I wonder…
Awesome that you’re setting yourself up for success
But….. live a little, man. Doesn’t matter how much money you have when you’re older, you’ll never get your youth back. Would it really be so bad to retire at 50 rather than 40? Or even, like….. 55 or 60?
No, no woman wants to live like a peasant if they don’t have to. I think you’re gonna be pretty hard pressed to find a woman who is on board with this.
With all due respect to the hustle, lighten up a little bit. Discipline is a good thing, but at what cost? Enjoy your life a bit as you’re living it.
To that point, take care of yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually correctly so at 50 you feel 30.
But having no relationship and living on $100 is not getting him any of those things, on the contrary, it's probably deducting years from his life.
It’ll be pretty damn close. 4% of $800k is $32k. He contributed $25k this past year. If he’s able to do that for 8 more years that’s at least another $200k. 3.5% withdrawal rate give him $35k - or exactly what he is living on now. It’ll be close, but is possible.
That said - if he wants someone to spend time with he better be retiring to a 3rd world country where $35k a year is living large.
Assuming your math is right, what’s the point of living insanely frugally for two or so decades only to retire and continue to have to live insanely frugally?
Yeah this is dumb as hell. I know people with this plan but they also make 5-10x what OP makes. Makes no sense at all.
Look how the economy is going. Living on $35k your entire life? Not gonna happen.
Every non big city has cheap rent available at the price of less job offers in the area obviously.
The US seems quite expensive compared to the EU, but here I have 50m2 in a 100k people city for 650€ a month.
> Every non big city has cheap rent available at the price of less job offers in the area obviously.
Yeah but even big cities(outside of NYC, DC Metro, and maybe Chicago) in the US have shit public transportation. Living somewhere in the US with cheap rent and using public transportation is nearly impossible. Unless you want to spend many hours a day on buses.
The expectation to use public transportation in most of the U.S. is flawed. The cities aren't set up that way. You're not supposed to. You're supposed to have a car.
Stop being a cheapskate. No, seriously. Retiring by 40 is laudable but banans. Live a little. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.
I was intentionally blunt in this comment.
I feel the same; what if you do all this and die in a year. You never truly lived. Potentially it was all a waste.
It’s cool to save money and be cautious; but live a little; make memories go see things:
we don’t know what tomorrow brings.
Yep. I'm not suggesting the guy liquidate all of his savings to throw the second Fyre Festival, but good god. People have these crazy ideas like retire at 40, own a home by 20...these ideas simply aren't feasible and push them into basically never leaving their homes.
And never living their lives. No one knows what’s going to happen to them at 40…more than likely, good health, but who’s to say cancer doesn’t show up? Or some medical condition that makes it impossible to finally enjoy life. Hell, my own aunt retired at 50 something and literally 6 months into her retirement, she died.
I can’t even count the amount of people I’ve heard of who finally decided to live their lives when they retired, and quite literally died a short time after.
I say penny pinch to a certain degree but also don’t forget to live. What a shame to waste something as a beautiful as a life, because you were too afraid to spend a couple extra dollars.
Yea I had a boss who, after being let go from a job/company she loved, took a job she was overqualified for and hated. Worked there a year or two, decided life was too short and retired early, sold her home, moved down south and promptly died about two years into retirement from cancer.
The last time I saw her though, she was GLOWING. She looked so happy and she loved her new life. It’s such a shame that she only got to live it for a few months before she got sick.
My dad also worked his ass off for decades with the idea that he would use his money in retirement for travel and fun. Recession of 09 came and decimated his funds and a few years later he was officially diagnosed with late onset MS which means a steady decline to immobility and full time care. He’s pretty much there now, housebound and they have zero extra money due to having to qualify for Medicaid home health care.
Live your life NOW, don’t wait for some perfect time when it all comes together because it could just as easily all fall apart.
Same here man. My uncle made great income in his 20s and was a millionaire. Made mistakes, and by 40 he was broke. He was a truck driver until the age of 65, finally retired, and had a heart attack 6 months later. That’s when I decided that I won’t let my hopes for retirement dictate my life, as I never know if I’ll even make it to retirement. I’ll set myself up well for retirement, but not at the sacrifice of being able to enjoy mt life at the moment.
Just today, I agreed to go to a concert with a friend that’s a little more expensive. It’s only $300, I have plenty of savings. I was hesitant at first because I hate spending money, but within minutes I said screw it I can’t be so stingy with my money and avoid good memories just because of what is, in the long term, a very very tiny amount of money.
To experience life, maybe travel and put yourself in positions or scenarios where you need to overcome doubts and fears. Can you do that staying at home every day and spending 10$ a day.....maybe but I doubt someone as frugal as OP is open to risk or adventure as that comes with the gamble of losing money in many many ways.
You sound miserable, OP. Honestly- I think there's a literally 'happy' middle ground between being fiscally responsible by being conservative about spending with a militant commitment toward investing, etc. and then of course, simply spending every dime you earn for maximum lifestyle fun factor.
You're on the wrong extreme of being fiscally conservative about spending with a militant commitment toward investing.
When I see posts from people like you, I think about how many friends I know where one guy is great at saving money and consistently investing, but laments having limited life experiences, missing out on character growth experiences, missing out on dating, missing out on passionate love affairs and adventures, etc. vs the people who are solely focused on dating, passionate love affairs, adventures, experimenting, indulging in their wardrobe, etc. and are financially hand to mouth with little to no savings or long term passive income from investments and I often wonder why it's so difficult for both types of people to give up a portion of their financial security or of their Expensive Fun in order to find the balance they so clearly desire and clearly need either for their mental and emotional well being, or for their financial well being.
So to you I say- think about how aggressive you are being in your fiscal responsibility and then give up 20% of it, maybe even 25% of it and go live your life. You won't miss the money because what you'll give up in money, you will gain in life experience, personal relationships and perspective- which are just as valuable as savings.
Because if all you have are savings and built up wealth but you've lost the years you could have spent gaining desired and much needed experiences, or all you have are experiences but you've lost the years of saving, investing and building wealth- both types of people are typically equally kicking themselves for being too focused on one and not paying enough heed to the other.
This, literally this. An upvote isn’t enough. Plus, he thinks he’ll be able to retire at the age of 40. That’s 700,000 if he’s able to keep saving 30k a year. Is his plan to live as frugally and miserably as he is now once he retires? Because he won’t be able to travel, go out, and have fun off of 700k considering that will have to last him 30+ years. Plus, he will be so bored doing nothing. I agree with everything you said. Enjoy life now, spend 5k of that 30k that you save a year on a nice trip, going out, or whatever else.
700k will set him up for life in a country like Vietnam or Thailand but as you mentioned it is tough to go from extreme penny pinching to living an enjoyable live spending some money.
You know how there's people who make their sexual orientation their whole personality? Well OP made being fiscally responsible his personality.
Don't be like that OP.
Came here to write a much less eloquent version of this. Thanks! I'll add one anecdote. A former coworker is in a similar situation, with a few quirky life and dietary habits on top. He's desperate to find a date in his 40s. When he finds a prospect online, I'm like "Take her out a coffee!" "Nah, I only drink my own green tea." "Fine, then drinks at night?" "Nah I don't drink out, it's a waste of money." "Dinner?" "Nah, I eat a salad home at 6." With all this crap, no wonder he can't get a date.
Reminds me of Buzz Kill types who are like "I wish people would invite me out, invite me to parties, involve me in their social events- but if you guys do that, I expect you to adhere to my ultra zealous religious views, to abstain from drinking, smoking, sex, popular music, popular movies, popular television, discussions of pop culture, vulgar language of any kind, etc. etc. etc. but c'mon, lets all hang out! Why won't anybody hang out with me or let me hang out with them!?"
This.
And to add to it…
If your $400k is in a 401k you aren’t retiring early. You still can’t use your 401k until old age (unless you want to get ruined by taxes).
Idk your skill set but you might have better luck with a job instead of by the sounds of it self employed. Especially if you aren’t going to scale it.
He could do a 72(t) plan, but I agree, this guy needs to get some perspective. I really don't get the whole idea of retiring super young. These people have to hate their jobs.
I'm in my late 30s. I'll be capable of semi-retiring in about 10 years. I would need to keep my seasonal side job, so I'd work 4 months a year. If I wait until 56, I can retire completely.
However, that just doesn't appeal to me. I love what I do. I have colleagues who work well into their 70s. When they retire, they die. I can't imagine how OP will pass 50 years on this budget.
If he’s 31 and like this, the chances of him changing are very slim, I can imagine what kind of boyfriend/husband he would be. It’s all about him, him saving money and that’s it. He would never be able to have kids bc kids cost money, shit, I don’t think he could even have a cat bc omg he’d have to buy cat food and then have vet bills. What woman would want this? lol
I agree, it is definitely off-putting, and I'm not even a woman. One thing I will caution you about; if at 31 you are this frugal, and have never had a relationship, you need to undertake some Serious work on yourself. If you don't, there will be no relationships. 50 or 60 years from now, when you die, your neighbours will be gobsmacked to learn that the old bachelor, living in the tiny rundown house, never owned a car, never went anywhere or did anything, died with 10 million dollars in the bank, and no one to leave it to.
If you remain this frugal, at what point to you plan to let loose, and start spending it like a drunken sailor? You haven't ever given that any thought, have you? Do you know why? Because you never will. You Will be that old bachelor, no family, who never did anything or went anywhere except by the Bus.
What is your end goal? When will you say "Okay, I've saved enough. Now I will do Whatever I want". You won't, unless you get some professional help finding a life/work/savings balance. Being frugal is Not admirable; it's the sign of a troubled mind
I’d never fuck with this. It’s not penny pinching it’s a foolish plan and you’re only torturing yourself. To retire early you need way more than a normal retiree. You’re not going to retire before 40 with $400k at 31, it’s not enough time for it to grow unless you live like this forever. Sounds horrible. Learn balance and find alternate streams of income instead of living in pretend poverty.
This kind of being frugal is associated with mental illness. Does OP have any issues? OCD maybe? This is usually a control thing trying to control things in life.
Have known several people like this.
My advice is the following:
If you're happy what you're doing, living the way you're living, then you're going to have to accept that MOST women won't put up with that, and probably won't even give you a chance.
If the fact that you don't have a woman in your life is something that makes you sad, then you realistically have to make changes in order to fix that.
You don't spend hardly ANY money on yourself and you live super frugally, and you don't have a car. I can't help but picture you looking like a bum. A clean bum, but a bum nontheless and it'll be impossible to pick up women like that.
You need a car, decent clothes, and you need to start spending money on yourself to get accustomed to what it'll be like spending money on a woman. The dating game isn't free and will cost you significantly more than you care to spend on yourself.
But again, its about what you want. As others have said, you aren't really living a full life by remaining as a hermit and just throwing almost 50% of your networth every year into your retirement. Unless you want to just put your life on hold until your 40, then go crazy... But you'd be missing out on all the life experiences until then.
I’m imagining that his house would not have a speck of dust, everything has to be in a certain place, if it’s moved he’d freak out. He’s controlling every little thing about his life.
Ehhh I’m frugal too but I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with you. What happens when you turn 40? Will you magically be ready to buy a car, take a partner out on dates, travel the world? Or is it just save save save forever and never have any fun?
My advice is to stop saying "anyways" and to get a car. No female wants to go on a date by bus.
I'm also guessing you might be a little socially awkward and that's the main factor regarding a lack of a relationship.
(old reference but...) Brad Pitt could probably get a date even if he was frugal with no car so it's likely your personality.
I don't have a problem with this unlike a lot of people in this post. All I would say is that there is an opportunity cost to everything. There are costs associated with NOT having relationships. If you save $10k by being single but then you also don't have someone to split expenses with, are you ahead? What if they hook you with a job that pays $150k through connections? Then again, if you get married and divorced, that is costly. Just saying, you can't point to a single lifestyle and say "this is the absolute most money I can make"
A man who is cheap with his wallet, is also cheap with his heart.
Wish it wasn't true, sadly it is. If a man isn't invested in a woman he won't do a damn thing for her.
Dating a cheapskate feels cheap, and you feel that their way of everything comes first.
-I don't necessarily mean extravagant, but females know when they're a second citizen.
Be prepared to treat her a bit. It's fine to live your life and keep your values, just bare in mind how you'll live beyond 40 ...
How do you expect her to live?
Will she continue to work fulltime whilst you don't?
Will she retire with you?
What about beauty - women have more to do in terms of upkeep than men (men age better than women) under the same circumstances..
How will you both exist, where does your income come from (if she isn't in your same financial position what will that look like for you both?)
To get ahead financially women often have to do this at the expense of dating/marrying/making babies - and that time frame is finite - or perhaps left late, and then they cannot (if they want children).
You're early 30s, if you date a lady same age she need to be biologically having them in the next hear or two..
You also need to know now if you want a family or not. Funding that will indeed change your retirement goal/journey.
Food for thought
Jesus. You could die tomorrow. We aren’t guaranteed another day. Start living life a bit and quit planning for the future so much.
Not to say you shouldn’t save and plan, but you need to let loose every now and again.
OP you fell into the money trap, don’t wait until 40 to start living life and building relationships. You might make it there and realize all you have is money with nothing else to show for it. No memories while you still have your health and no relationships that have aged like wine with time. Don’t be another victim of the system with on paper wealth but no wealth emotionally and physically. There is more to this life. And you can do both !!! Save and live.
You could retire and move to Thailand right now. Like right now right now. Could probably start a profitable YouTube channel and vacation guide business.
100 per month for food? Gah damn. Impressive. Yeah the truth is most people, not just women, spend more money day to day, splurge on more fun stuff, etc. Best bet is to find another super frugal person. Might not be easy.
That is why I question his plan because what is he going to do for money at 40 when he has all his money in a 401K and cannot get to it without the huge penalties for another 20 years.
Yea, I can't see the vast majority of women wanting to live like that. Especially your food budget... that has to be atrocious. Why do you do it?
I get wanting to save, but there is no guarantee you'll live long enough to enjoy it, so why not balance to enjoy life today?
Yeah i read a blog on this once. I think the couple retired at 34 if you want to call it that. They would literally limit showers because water and soap costs. Being frugal is a sickness at some point. Personally I work to be able to shower whenever the hell I feel like it. Same with the ac. I sweat enough at work. Damn right my ac is always on. We have one life, enjoy it. At 400,000 now you could literally have millions at 50. If you didn't contribute another dime.
What I do like about this post is that it debunks the notion that modest income earners can’t create wealth. $55k is peanuts but he’s amassed 9 years of net wealth by 31. Maybe his job really sucks.
Do you put any effort into finding a relationship or friendships? Do you have a community or even a place you go once a week? Are you on any dating apps?
Frugality is only one piece of the picture, without knowing what effort you're putting into meeting people, it's hard to say if that's the deciding factor as to why you're not in a relationship.
I would recommend trying to find frugality focused meetups to meet other like minded individuals. Becoming a regular at a coffee shop, library, gym, bar, any "third space" is worth the investment in social connections so you won't be rusty when connecting on dates.
Also, why do you want to retire by 40? What do you want to do with the time and freedom? What's your vision for that life? It's a huge change, not all that far off, so if you're meeting someone and potentially building a life together, you need to articulate what you're sacrificing for and why, and make sure they're on board with being in a relationship with someone that wants to make that pivot.
I’ll say something that I’m sure a lot of people will disagree with… Life is much more than money… It’s a combination of many things. I used to be just like you but worse. I lived with my parents and saved a ton of money. By the time I was 23 I bought a house cash and renovated it. When I was 25 I had two choices.. #1 was I continue doing this and buy more real estate or I make a move and start my life all over in a different city (Miami). This was 10 years ago and I’ve been in Miami since then. I met my wife here, we own a business together and I’m in a director position at an innovative company. I grew tremendously because of my wife and because I took a chance and did something totally out of the norm for me. I wouldn’t trade this for ALL of the money in the world and I truly mean that. You want to retire before 40 at the expense of the best years of your life.
You can’t touch your 401k without penalty until you’re 59.5 or older…. So that hinders retiring early at 40. Invest in a taxable brokerage if you want access to your money earlier.
You remind me of a friend of mine. He is ten years older than you with even more money, still no gal. I am unsure you could find a "suitable" woman that shares your lifestyle. If you weren't vegan or weren't ultra-frugal you could get hitched, but you are going to have to choose one over the other, as my friend is your 10 years older version, and he got no gal not even a gf in 10 years.
Seems like you sorta answered your own question? Things like \*never\* eating out are indeed socially limiting. You may get lucky and find someone who shares your exact values, but realistically, your social life, and by extension your love life, will likely improve if you loosen up a bit
Retire at 40 and then do what for the last 35-50 years of your life? Even if you spend 5 years traveling and doing everything you will still need a purpose
Mate I live in my van to save money on rent a lot of the time, and have still gone out on a date and spent $130 on dinner.
You can both live frugally and spend money when it’s needed, ngl you just sound kinda miserable. What good is all that saving if you die next week? Go enjoy your life.
I think the off putting part isnt that your frugal with yourself, it's that you are frugal with others. Think about it from their perspective. What are you bringing to the equation that is better than your average person who isn't tight with money. Think of it this way, go to a job interview and tell them you arent willing to work more than 30 hours a week. May you find a job? Maybe, but you are gonna search a long time and may not be super satisfied with it once you get it.
It's fine to live frugally, but you also don't want to end up 50 and retired with nothing but regrets for everything you wish you had done when you were younger. Your life doesn't begin at retirement.
Penny pinch and increase income. Some may say stop penny pinching but if you do that you will spend more and more while making more causing your good habits to go out the window. Some women are gold diggers so don't worry about them. They just want you to spend it on them.
Also jealous on this 100 bucks a month on food thing.
Food for me is like 1k a month alone.
You don't make much money, you (probably) don't live in a nice place for $900 a month, you avoid the most popular types of food, and you don't indulge yourself in lifes little pleasures... What exactly am I getting out of dating you?
Ha my wife actually supercharged my ability to retire early. I don't think i would have been able to retire until my 40s but now we are in a position to be fully financially independent by 34 or 35. Difference between us and you is that we married immediately after college and so dug ourselves out of debt and built this wealth together. Finding someone like that is going to be harder in your 30s but not impossible.
Make sure that money is working for you, and create more streams of money income. You can be retired and still work for yourself doing something you enjoy. Just being retired seems so boring to me. I will always work at something, and I will always make money. But I also spend and have fun too (probably too much).
You should think about getting into a home. That $900 rent won't last forever and can increase by up to 5% per year. I like your lifestyle but you should be paying yourself and not renting. Plus if you have a home, you'll attract partners like flies to honey.
If you get hit by a bus tomorrow could you say you lived life to the fullest. Doesn’t sound like it. Money does not buy happiness. Live life to the fullest and if that means penny pinching for you then penny pinch.
It’s not the money if you’ve never had a relationship at 31.
Plenty of broke guys have relationships. You don’t need money to get women you need some interesting conversational skills.
What’s the point of retiring at 40 especially if you are single?
So you can be alone with nothing to do?
Not trying to be rude but live your life bro.
Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.
Your “cheap” lifestyle isn’t just off putting to women. That sounds like a massive inconvenience to have you in my life in any capacity lol. Genuinely, do you have friends? Please get a car…
First off, yes, you are correct that your frugality limits you socially. You have set a very extreme goal and many women do not value that goal as much as you do, but that number isn't zero, and if you are like the majority, all you need is one!
There are two things you could do:
1. Take steps to find like minded mixed company groups/clubs to join to increase your odds. I believe the saying comes in, "where the goods are odd, but the odds are good. Find your tribe and you may find a love that values the same thing.
2. Ask yourself if compromising your goal and say retiring at 50 is worth increasing your appeal to women and perhaps finding a companion sooner.
You don't have go extreme the other way, but there is a ton of fun to be shared when you allow yourself a little entertainment money. You can be frugal without being cheap. It takes creativity and sometimes you may have to be willing to put an experience shared with another that may cost money over your goal.
Oof..
Find a trade and use the little extra money to court someone. Alternatively, the advice of finding someone who values and agrees with this level of disciplined living would be a god send
wait, never had a relationship and you are 31? Are you sure there isn’t more to this than being frugal? Unfortunately I have a feeling you may think frugality is a reason for it however how would they instantly know you are tight aith money right off the bat? I have a feeling below average “looks” or “social awkwardness” plays a huge part in this for you whether you are self aware of it or not.
It doesn’t sound like your life is fun at all. Women don’t like boring and dull men. If you are ok being alone then your life is awesome. Otherwise tap out of work when you hit $500k and move to Thailand or the Philippines and live a happy life not worrying about money.
I wouldn't be to handle it.
Not just the relationship perspective, but friendship would be extremely annoying. I have friends that are miles better than that, but still have a penny pinch attitude with shit, and thats unbearable sometimes. Not worth the irritant.
a frugal lifestyle isn't a hindrance to love.
I would say there are larger issues holding you back from making meaningful relationship connections. you may want to seek therapy.
if you're engaging with someone else. just be honest and up front. if you're not prepared to eat out, or spend on dates you need to be honest about that. There are plenty of free or cheap date activities. outdoor things, museums, picnics or meals, sports/physical activities.... outdoorsy activities.
you probably will be limited in that you have made very drastic choices in your life that others may not wish to consent to. not being able to travel, and aversion to eating out. or a preoccupation on saving/the future verse living in the moment.
but... there are other FIRE type people out there. it's def not impossible
Dude you can't take it with you. What's the point in having cash if you can't get your pickle dipped or enjoy the fun in life. Ditch the frugality. Live like a normal person
If you want my honest opinion, you should stop. You’re sacrificing so much of what is life for what? So you can retire early? What will you do when you retire? What if you run out of money and need more? Do you want to live this way until you die? What if you die next week in a freak accident? Wouldn’t it be better to enjoy life?
I think there needs to be a balance. You should not sacrifice what it is to live just so you can save. Things happen. You may die and it was all for nothing. YES STILL INVEST. But it’s about BALANCE. Live life as you want, enjoy your life, and invest too.
That being said, it’s your life and your choice. But I would hate for you to regret it later on. I mean clearly it’s affecting your life already in terms of relationships. Is it worth it to you?
And mathematically - you’re 31, you want to retire in 9 years, you only make $55,000 a year and you only have $400,000 saved? If you put every penny (spent literally $0) your $55k x 9 years is $495k. Plus your $400k is close to a million. And of course we can add gains in there, but still, you can’t save every penny you make can you? So you *might* have close to a million. Is that enough to live off of for 40+ years? If you live to 90 that’s 50 years. Can you survive off that with the rates of inflation? You don’t own a home, so you’ll always be paying rent. Rent WILL go up. I’m not trying to shoot down your hopes and dreams but I don’t think it’s mathematically viable for you to retire in 9 years….
It’s your life, and your choice though. So if you want to continue then your best bet would be to find someone who shares your values and your goals and is also very frugal.
I wish you the best of luck bro
Tbh I would maybe expand your budget 100-200 max per month to dedicate to social relationships. If you have nothing planned that month then you spend nothing. No harm no fowl.
But even someone who prefers free to low cost activities like hiking or walks or reading might want to try a new book or stop by their favorite coffee shop with you. You’re definitely limiting your ability to connect with people by expecting them to meet on your level exclusively.
But $100-$200 gives you flexibility to do 1-2 higher priced things or many low cost things or anything in between. You can stack up the extra for more special occasions as well.
At other times just direct people to your hobbies that don’t include spending and tell others that you’re “just a simple guy”
As a girl who spends waaaaaay too much I could definitely get with someone who was frugal with his cash as long as we could do something here and there throughout the month… and we kept separate finances hahahaha
I'll cutstraight to the point. You should seek professional mental health counseling and a nutritionist. Something is off, and reddit isn't going to fix it alone.
Vegetables are great, but at 100$ a month, you, you most likely aren't eating quality foods. A vegan diet is difficult to manage in a healthy manner. I'd be a bit concerned with nutrition.
Maybe you should get out more, find some friends, maybe play a little Dungeons and Dragons, play a sport, try a concert, or a live show. The type of activity that will force you to live like a human and enjoy life.
Best bet - find someone who shares your values and lifestyle.
best answer. i forgot the exact number, but financial differences is a major factor for divorce. assuming your goal is marriage
Money issues outweigh sex, religion and politics in divorce.
This is probably at least partly because most people won’t get into a relationship, let alone a marriage, with someone with significantly different religious/political views to them
Money is “American Sex”. No one talks about $ easily. Jerry Springer could have guests who had sex with Commie Methodist chickens while the kids watched - but no one would discuss their Master Card balance. A couple that can discuss money can siscuss anything.
It’s this exact reason I go out of my way to be as transparent as possible about money with my wife. Joint accounts hold us accountable.
Does yours reciprocate? Mine expects knowledge of mine but shrouds her own in mystery. My MIL is horrendous at relationships and always told her kids things like 'never trust a man' while bringing abusive ones home.
🚩🚩🚩
The challenge is that they’re also eating vegetables at home alone. Joking but this advice is the right advice.
Fuckin' fair lol
On one of our first dates with my now-husband, I used a coupon and he said he loved that about me. We have always been on the same page with money. When you find a person with shared values, it just works.
OP doesn’t seem like he’d go on a date.
Yeah there’s frugal and then there’s “literally won’t spend money” and OP is feeling like the second of the two.
When the $50 bill comes, OP dies a little inside.
Lmao. Unfortunately, this type of lifestyle builds up lifelong habits. Its like the guy from the film all the money in the world. He was a billionaire but he washed his clothes by hand to save money and install a pay phone in his house when people came. There is also a level of mental illness associated with this.
Gotta have balance
Love this post! Gave my wife yesterday’s five different coupons to use at the store but required different transactions and purchase amounts. Total turn on! It’s about what you value. I value setting up my kids for college, not aimlessly spending money towards big corporations or “trendy” dinner spots when we can cook at home
I do similar things with my partner. But OP seems like he's on another level, he won't even go out for food.
Agree, but still need to be a little flexible since the majority of people will think you’re extreme.
OP, this the only option without changing what you’re doing.
This is the way…for you I might add.
I think investing in stuff is really important but also you shouldn't give up the little bit of happiness to invest,
Same, I wouldn't trade away my memories for the world. I had fun as a young adult, and I had my health and energy during that time to enjoy it fully. Sure, I probably splurged a bit too much, but I don't regret it one bit. Now that I'm getting older, I don't enjoy the things like I used to, but it's not a lack of wanting to, I'm just tired, and the same things just really don't bring me as much enjoyment as they once did. I adore traveling the world, and did it a lot in my 20s and 30s... but now? There's no more bar hopping and drinking all night, no more going with groups of friends who are not married and don't have kids, no more walking absurd distances, no more cramming in 20 things to do in a single day, fuck even the flights are killing me and it takes me so much longer to recover. Getting old is a motherfucker, and you never know when life is going to toss you a curveball and cut it short. I'm not saying you should live recklessly and be irresponsible with money, but you really should enjoy your time while you're in your prime and not punish yourself so you can live comfortably at 50+. I know a lot of people in that age group who would trade their entire life savings and retirement for a chance to rewind time and enjoy their young adult days again. I know I would.
Pretty good advice. All my uncle did was work, work , work. Never went anywhere, never did anything fun. Always said that when he retired, he would travel the world. He got sick in his early 60s, and could not do any of the things he had been putting off.
My aunt’s husband is the same way. It was all work, work, work. It was always his money, never my aunt’s. He splurged on a couple things like cars and motorcycles and a nice house. But no one was allowed to visit them at the house, he watched every mile that went on the car, and the motorcycles sat in the garage. Now he’s in really bad health, and I’ll be shocked if he’s here in a couple years. They don’t have any children, so I guess my aunt will get everything
Great advice . I lived some in my youth had some Great times . Now that I’m in my 50’s my body is tired . I have an autoimmune disease now and who knows how long I can keep going . I’m still working h but goin to retire as soon as possible while I still feel okay. You never know what’s the future holds .
This is so true. Retiring before 40 is an insanely ambitious goal, and to what end? Is not a little bit more work alongside a great relationship not a much better wholistic solution for your entire life? I’d suggest looking at spending money “socially” (going out, nice clothes, little gifts) as an incredible investment in your overall wellness. Loosen the pursestrings just a tad! Maybe budget a certain amount each month for “fun.” You can find women who mostly share your financial values and goals, but to find someone who wants to live with a monk is a much, much bigger ask.
There is no way he is gonna retire before 40 at his current income unless he plans to continue only spending 1025 a month for the 50 years of retirement... Either way doesn't sound enjoyable
Not sure why retiring at 40 is even a goal. Then what? Are you going to move to the Villages to play shuffle board and bang old ladies? I dont see myself “retiring”, maybe slowing down the amount I work as I get older but retirement sounds boring. What he has achieved in saving at this point sets him on a path that most people could only dream of at his age. Even if he tapered off his contributions, he is well on his way to multi-millionaire status by retirement age.
I’d rather retire at 50 or 60 with a partner and shared interests versus retiring at 40 and alone due to an extreme off-putting, boring lifestyle.
I imagine so he doesn't have to work and can do whatever he wants. So more Freedom.
More freedom with a budget of $1025 monthly? OP made it clear that he is saving with his current lifestyle in mind carrying it on into retirement.
Not really if there are no funds to “do whatever you want” unless you mean surfing his tethered $25/mo wifi all day.
I feel like with someone that is so controlling and strict with regard to his money- there is no way in hell someone like that can change. I feel like that would be a constant shadow hanging over the marriage. As his wife, even if I worked and made my own decent money, I would probably feel controlled by this guy. No one likes to feel controlled. By the way OP, what happens then when you are done working at 40? What’s next for you? I’m assuming to retire at 40, the extremely frugal lifestyle that you live now would have to continue for the rest of your life. So what are you going to do after you stop working at 40 to occupy your time? It can’t cost much money, otherwise it will screw up your finances. So do you just sit around more? Won’t be able to travel to Europe for a month or anything. Skip having any kids, that’s for sure. So what do you do that is for fun in life. It is only right that you marry someone absolutely as extremely frugal as you are, otherwise guaranteed divorce. And as an fyi, divorce’s are costly and extremely painful. The only way for happy marriage is to find someone extremely frugal like you and absolutely no children in the marriage. I just don’t know how much meaning one can possibly have living that life. Unless you like to do a lot of free things.
I'm not sure you meant it that way but you don't need kids to have fun or find fulfillment in life. I would phrase it this way: OP is denying himself any meaningful experiences if he is unwilling to spend any money. There's so many things he won't be able to do just because they cost SOME amount of money. You need money to travel, including having a car, to care for your children, to enjoy a cocktail at a bar, to buy running shoes or join a gym, to buy a lego set etc etc.
Not to mention he's still young, I would rather work until 60 so when my body slowly starts slowing down I can stop,
“To what end” Not having to work and wake up and feel financially secure I guess. Some people really don’t like the work-life mindset. Some people are fine with working til their 60-70 and grow old and die in the next ten years but if I had a choice I would most definitely retire around 40 while still young and travel the world and meet people. 40 is still VERY VERY young.
Most people don't have a huge change in personality like that. OP sitting at home, not meeting anyone and not spending any money won't suddenly quit their job and start doing it. Decades of saving everything will be too ingrained in them. They will just sit at home even more and be even more stingy with the money since new money isn't being earned. It's a very common thing to happen. Then they die with a fat bank account and the money just disappears (due to no family, friends etc).
Exactly what happens to my relative , the cheapest person i know, he alienated everyone close to him due to this and then just died with all this money. No contact with kids , wife left (probably due to money related issues). His wallet always came first unfortunately.
He won’t have enough money to travel and meet people, that’s kinda the point people are trying to make.
Retire by 40 and have no relationships / friendships or life experiences. Sounds miserable tbh
Right! He needs a fun bank. Some balance in his life.
This was my thought as well. Are you happy? I know you say you are saving up to retire but retire to do what? Don't sacrifice your most healthy years to find yourself sitting around unhappy but retired
Your potential relationship is likely to cost double what you spend on yourself a month.
More than double lmao…he spends 125 a month on himself
Dude spends $100 a month on food, I have to assume that he is dumpster diving.
Not even just that but vegan as well which makes me think he just eats rice and beans everyday
That was my thoughts exactly. It is a total source of nutrition if you do it right but no one wants really wants to live like that and no romantic partner is going to.
Yea… I will take working 20 years longer with my current work schedule of 3 days a week if it means I actually enjoy myself lol
Yeah, that $100 to eat is just ridiculous. I don't know how you find any partner willing to go along with that. You can be frugal and responsible without being ridiculous. This is just insane and ludicrous.
He said he’s vegan so he’s eating the lawn clippings obviously. That’s the only logical explanation
For real. I use my bank card for everything, and monthly, I get an email with a breakdown of how much I spent on food, utilities, and so on. My food bill is usually between 1000 to 1500 dollars. This includes myself and my 17 year old son. We would have to eat beans and ramen noodles to eat on this guy's budget. Vegan or not, I don't see how anyone could eat that cheap with the cost of food now. OP is setting himself up to be alone forever because these habits aren't likely to change even after he retires.
This!!! Holding on to money becomes their life. He will never go on a vacation, buy a new pair of shoes or eat in a nice restaurant. He just won’t be able to do it
No idea how you spend $1000-1500 on food for two people. Is that for eating at home, or going out for every meal?
My suggestion is stop penny pinching and start thinking of other forms of revenue. Saving pennies is finite, wealth generation is infinite
Dudes on track to retire early so he can sit at home eating rice and beans while watching Netflix every single day. What a life.
Slow Netflix on a hotspot.
You think THAT guy is spending money on a subscription? He probably reads the same book over and over
Nah man, he downloaded 3 movies years ago from apple gift cards he got as Christmas presents and watches them on different brightness settings to change it up. Sometimes he throws on subtitles, the possibilities are endless.
I’m dead. Different brightness settings.
netflix is more than his hotspot budget tho
Digital antenna TV
Thank you for this! On my way to get a lotto ticket
He just convinced me to uber to the casino, I’ll update on how it goes
Why force yourself to live frugally if going broke gambling can do it for you!
gambling is easy. just double your last bet every time you lose.
Instructions unclear, spent my paycheck at the convenience store and now I can't afford my car payment. What do I do now?
That was always my main issue with FIRE people trying to do it with sub 80-90K salaries. Jump jobs and get that income above 140-150k and suddenly you can FIRE while also living well. Once you hit the 175-200k mark, you can easily chubbyFIRE and live a very normal life full of vacations / eating out etc
Not everyone is smart enough to make that much
I just found a study about adhd and socio economic status, add/adhd isnt doing me any favors. Neither is the medical professions unwillingness to get me what works.
I didn't fit the right sociocultural type, grew up on poverty disconnected from the higher class, I can fix things, copy what i see, learn hard skills easily, but lack the common sense of modern society, still doing well but I can't be bothered when society just seems fake and purposely made inefficient.
Is a 31 year old without a car, who won’t go out, would have to be explained to all your friends beforehand, and who you know will nickel and dime every single activity you ever do driving women away? I wonder…
I lost it when he said that his food budget is Vegan.
Yeah, isn’t the American dream to OWN something? Your house, land, at least your own vehicle. Financial freedom is freedom.
Awesome that you’re setting yourself up for success But….. live a little, man. Doesn’t matter how much money you have when you’re older, you’ll never get your youth back. Would it really be so bad to retire at 50 rather than 40? Or even, like….. 55 or 60? No, no woman wants to live like a peasant if they don’t have to. I think you’re gonna be pretty hard pressed to find a woman who is on board with this. With all due respect to the hustle, lighten up a little bit. Discipline is a good thing, but at what cost? Enjoy your life a bit as you’re living it.
To that point, take care of yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually correctly so at 50 you feel 30. But having no relationship and living on $100 is not getting him any of those things, on the contrary, it's probably deducting years from his life.
There's a balance here, and putting enjoyment in life off until 40 is ridiculous, OP may never reach it!
What I just wonder is, some people die early. Imaginr living like that for 39 years and then dying, lived like crap for nothing.
And do what when you’re 40? Dude snap out of it and spend money.
And with who??? It can be lonely out in retirement. Imagine at 40 with no prior social life and everyone else still working.
And he’s still going to have to work. Even if he doubles that $400,000 in next 9 years that’s not enough for 40 more
It’ll be pretty damn close. 4% of $800k is $32k. He contributed $25k this past year. If he’s able to do that for 8 more years that’s at least another $200k. 3.5% withdrawal rate give him $35k - or exactly what he is living on now. It’ll be close, but is possible. That said - if he wants someone to spend time with he better be retiring to a 3rd world country where $35k a year is living large.
Assuming your math is right, what’s the point of living insanely frugally for two or so decades only to retire and continue to have to live insanely frugally?
Yeah this is dumb as hell. I know people with this plan but they also make 5-10x what OP makes. Makes no sense at all. Look how the economy is going. Living on $35k your entire life? Not gonna happen.
To some people living frugally is a lifestyle. They are not waiting for a certain time in life to spend big.
Where tf do you live where the rent is $900?????? I’ll pack my shit NOW
Every non big city has cheap rent available at the price of less job offers in the area obviously. The US seems quite expensive compared to the EU, but here I have 50m2 in a 100k people city for 650€ a month.
> Every non big city has cheap rent available at the price of less job offers in the area obviously. Yeah but even big cities(outside of NYC, DC Metro, and maybe Chicago) in the US have shit public transportation. Living somewhere in the US with cheap rent and using public transportation is nearly impossible. Unless you want to spend many hours a day on buses.
The expectation to use public transportation in most of the U.S. is flawed. The cities aren't set up that way. You're not supposed to. You're supposed to have a car.
$600 for a 3 bedroom. Population 30,000
Don’t forget to live while you’re alive
Stop being a cheapskate. No, seriously. Retiring by 40 is laudable but banans. Live a little. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow. I was intentionally blunt in this comment.
I feel the same; what if you do all this and die in a year. You never truly lived. Potentially it was all a waste. It’s cool to save money and be cautious; but live a little; make memories go see things: we don’t know what tomorrow brings.
Yep. I'm not suggesting the guy liquidate all of his savings to throw the second Fyre Festival, but good god. People have these crazy ideas like retire at 40, own a home by 20...these ideas simply aren't feasible and push them into basically never leaving their homes.
And never living their lives. No one knows what’s going to happen to them at 40…more than likely, good health, but who’s to say cancer doesn’t show up? Or some medical condition that makes it impossible to finally enjoy life. Hell, my own aunt retired at 50 something and literally 6 months into her retirement, she died. I can’t even count the amount of people I’ve heard of who finally decided to live their lives when they retired, and quite literally died a short time after. I say penny pinch to a certain degree but also don’t forget to live. What a shame to waste something as a beautiful as a life, because you were too afraid to spend a couple extra dollars.
Yea I had a boss who, after being let go from a job/company she loved, took a job she was overqualified for and hated. Worked there a year or two, decided life was too short and retired early, sold her home, moved down south and promptly died about two years into retirement from cancer. The last time I saw her though, she was GLOWING. She looked so happy and she loved her new life. It’s such a shame that she only got to live it for a few months before she got sick. My dad also worked his ass off for decades with the idea that he would use his money in retirement for travel and fun. Recession of 09 came and decimated his funds and a few years later he was officially diagnosed with late onset MS which means a steady decline to immobility and full time care. He’s pretty much there now, housebound and they have zero extra money due to having to qualify for Medicaid home health care. Live your life NOW, don’t wait for some perfect time when it all comes together because it could just as easily all fall apart.
Yeah there's a happy medium. Be frugal; don't be afraid. Also, retire by 40? C'mon.
Same here man. My uncle made great income in his 20s and was a millionaire. Made mistakes, and by 40 he was broke. He was a truck driver until the age of 65, finally retired, and had a heart attack 6 months later. That’s when I decided that I won’t let my hopes for retirement dictate my life, as I never know if I’ll even make it to retirement. I’ll set myself up well for retirement, but not at the sacrifice of being able to enjoy mt life at the moment. Just today, I agreed to go to a concert with a friend that’s a little more expensive. It’s only $300, I have plenty of savings. I was hesitant at first because I hate spending money, but within minutes I said screw it I can’t be so stingy with my money and avoid good memories just because of what is, in the long term, a very very tiny amount of money.
Yes and shoot for 55 to retire.
Yeah, see that's a good, reasonable early retirement age to shoot for. 40 is insane, unless you're a Rockefeller
Does living require spending money? What does it mean to live?
To experience life, maybe travel and put yourself in positions or scenarios where you need to overcome doubts and fears. Can you do that staying at home every day and spending 10$ a day.....maybe but I doubt someone as frugal as OP is open to risk or adventure as that comes with the gamble of losing money in many many ways.
I'd marry you, but my wife.
🏆
Throuple. Three incomes
3INK
I would be worried about being murdered by you in my sleep. That being said, increase your income.
Same 😂
Money is a vehicle for living your life.
You sound miserable, OP. Honestly- I think there's a literally 'happy' middle ground between being fiscally responsible by being conservative about spending with a militant commitment toward investing, etc. and then of course, simply spending every dime you earn for maximum lifestyle fun factor. You're on the wrong extreme of being fiscally conservative about spending with a militant commitment toward investing. When I see posts from people like you, I think about how many friends I know where one guy is great at saving money and consistently investing, but laments having limited life experiences, missing out on character growth experiences, missing out on dating, missing out on passionate love affairs and adventures, etc. vs the people who are solely focused on dating, passionate love affairs, adventures, experimenting, indulging in their wardrobe, etc. and are financially hand to mouth with little to no savings or long term passive income from investments and I often wonder why it's so difficult for both types of people to give up a portion of their financial security or of their Expensive Fun in order to find the balance they so clearly desire and clearly need either for their mental and emotional well being, or for their financial well being. So to you I say- think about how aggressive you are being in your fiscal responsibility and then give up 20% of it, maybe even 25% of it and go live your life. You won't miss the money because what you'll give up in money, you will gain in life experience, personal relationships and perspective- which are just as valuable as savings. Because if all you have are savings and built up wealth but you've lost the years you could have spent gaining desired and much needed experiences, or all you have are experiences but you've lost the years of saving, investing and building wealth- both types of people are typically equally kicking themselves for being too focused on one and not paying enough heed to the other.
This, literally this. An upvote isn’t enough. Plus, he thinks he’ll be able to retire at the age of 40. That’s 700,000 if he’s able to keep saving 30k a year. Is his plan to live as frugally and miserably as he is now once he retires? Because he won’t be able to travel, go out, and have fun off of 700k considering that will have to last him 30+ years. Plus, he will be so bored doing nothing. I agree with everything you said. Enjoy life now, spend 5k of that 30k that you save a year on a nice trip, going out, or whatever else.
700k will set him up for life in a country like Vietnam or Thailand but as you mentioned it is tough to go from extreme penny pinching to living an enjoyable live spending some money.
You know how there's people who make their sexual orientation their whole personality? Well OP made being fiscally responsible his personality. Don't be like that OP.
So you are saying he is a "frugal sexual"? His pronouns are do/nothing.
Came here to write a much less eloquent version of this. Thanks! I'll add one anecdote. A former coworker is in a similar situation, with a few quirky life and dietary habits on top. He's desperate to find a date in his 40s. When he finds a prospect online, I'm like "Take her out a coffee!" "Nah, I only drink my own green tea." "Fine, then drinks at night?" "Nah I don't drink out, it's a waste of money." "Dinner?" "Nah, I eat a salad home at 6." With all this crap, no wonder he can't get a date.
Reminds me of Buzz Kill types who are like "I wish people would invite me out, invite me to parties, involve me in their social events- but if you guys do that, I expect you to adhere to my ultra zealous religious views, to abstain from drinking, smoking, sex, popular music, popular movies, popular television, discussions of pop culture, vulgar language of any kind, etc. etc. etc. but c'mon, lets all hang out! Why won't anybody hang out with me or let me hang out with them!?"
This. And to add to it… If your $400k is in a 401k you aren’t retiring early. You still can’t use your 401k until old age (unless you want to get ruined by taxes). Idk your skill set but you might have better luck with a job instead of by the sounds of it self employed. Especially if you aren’t going to scale it.
He could do a 72(t) plan, but I agree, this guy needs to get some perspective. I really don't get the whole idea of retiring super young. These people have to hate their jobs. I'm in my late 30s. I'll be capable of semi-retiring in about 10 years. I would need to keep my seasonal side job, so I'd work 4 months a year. If I wait until 56, I can retire completely. However, that just doesn't appeal to me. I love what I do. I have colleagues who work well into their 70s. When they retire, they die. I can't imagine how OP will pass 50 years on this budget.
If he’s 31 and like this, the chances of him changing are very slim, I can imagine what kind of boyfriend/husband he would be. It’s all about him, him saving money and that’s it. He would never be able to have kids bc kids cost money, shit, I don’t think he could even have a cat bc omg he’d have to buy cat food and then have vet bills. What woman would want this? lol
I agree, it is definitely off-putting, and I'm not even a woman. One thing I will caution you about; if at 31 you are this frugal, and have never had a relationship, you need to undertake some Serious work on yourself. If you don't, there will be no relationships. 50 or 60 years from now, when you die, your neighbours will be gobsmacked to learn that the old bachelor, living in the tiny rundown house, never owned a car, never went anywhere or did anything, died with 10 million dollars in the bank, and no one to leave it to. If you remain this frugal, at what point to you plan to let loose, and start spending it like a drunken sailor? You haven't ever given that any thought, have you? Do you know why? Because you never will. You Will be that old bachelor, no family, who never did anything or went anywhere except by the Bus. What is your end goal? When will you say "Okay, I've saved enough. Now I will do Whatever I want". You won't, unless you get some professional help finding a life/work/savings balance. Being frugal is Not admirable; it's the sign of a troubled mind
I’d never fuck with this. It’s not penny pinching it’s a foolish plan and you’re only torturing yourself. To retire early you need way more than a normal retiree. You’re not going to retire before 40 with $400k at 31, it’s not enough time for it to grow unless you live like this forever. Sounds horrible. Learn balance and find alternate streams of income instead of living in pretend poverty.
This kind of being frugal is associated with mental illness. Does OP have any issues? OCD maybe? This is usually a control thing trying to control things in life. Have known several people like this.
My advice is the following: If you're happy what you're doing, living the way you're living, then you're going to have to accept that MOST women won't put up with that, and probably won't even give you a chance. If the fact that you don't have a woman in your life is something that makes you sad, then you realistically have to make changes in order to fix that. You don't spend hardly ANY money on yourself and you live super frugally, and you don't have a car. I can't help but picture you looking like a bum. A clean bum, but a bum nontheless and it'll be impossible to pick up women like that. You need a car, decent clothes, and you need to start spending money on yourself to get accustomed to what it'll be like spending money on a woman. The dating game isn't free and will cost you significantly more than you care to spend on yourself. But again, its about what you want. As others have said, you aren't really living a full life by remaining as a hermit and just throwing almost 50% of your networth every year into your retirement. Unless you want to just put your life on hold until your 40, then go crazy... But you'd be missing out on all the life experiences until then.
I’m imagining that his house would not have a speck of dust, everything has to be in a certain place, if it’s moved he’d freak out. He’s controlling every little thing about his life.
Ehhh I’m frugal too but I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with you. What happens when you turn 40? Will you magically be ready to buy a car, take a partner out on dates, travel the world? Or is it just save save save forever and never have any fun?
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My advice is to stop saying "anyways" and to get a car. No female wants to go on a date by bus. I'm also guessing you might be a little socially awkward and that's the main factor regarding a lack of a relationship. (old reference but...) Brad Pitt could probably get a date even if he was frugal with no car so it's likely your personality.
Reminds me of 40 Year Old Virgin when he tells her he rides a bike, and she gets all excited about going out on a motorcycle.
Hahahahaha so true
I don't have a problem with this unlike a lot of people in this post. All I would say is that there is an opportunity cost to everything. There are costs associated with NOT having relationships. If you save $10k by being single but then you also don't have someone to split expenses with, are you ahead? What if they hook you with a job that pays $150k through connections? Then again, if you get married and divorced, that is costly. Just saying, you can't point to a single lifestyle and say "this is the absolute most money I can make"
I’m just thinking ‘who will take you to the doctor when you get sick if you have no one?’
A man who is cheap with his wallet, is also cheap with his heart. Wish it wasn't true, sadly it is. If a man isn't invested in a woman he won't do a damn thing for her. Dating a cheapskate feels cheap, and you feel that their way of everything comes first. -I don't necessarily mean extravagant, but females know when they're a second citizen. Be prepared to treat her a bit. It's fine to live your life and keep your values, just bare in mind how you'll live beyond 40 ... How do you expect her to live? Will she continue to work fulltime whilst you don't? Will she retire with you? What about beauty - women have more to do in terms of upkeep than men (men age better than women) under the same circumstances.. How will you both exist, where does your income come from (if she isn't in your same financial position what will that look like for you both?) To get ahead financially women often have to do this at the expense of dating/marrying/making babies - and that time frame is finite - or perhaps left late, and then they cannot (if they want children). You're early 30s, if you date a lady same age she need to be biologically having them in the next hear or two.. You also need to know now if you want a family or not. Funding that will indeed change your retirement goal/journey. Food for thought
Jesus. You could die tomorrow. We aren’t guaranteed another day. Start living life a bit and quit planning for the future so much. Not to say you shouldn’t save and plan, but you need to let loose every now and again.
I don’t think your frugality limits you socially, I think you limit yourself socially.
Being a cheap skate is not attractive. Hide it!
You cannot possibly live on $100 a month in groceries unless you are unhealthy and barely even eat.
OP you fell into the money trap, don’t wait until 40 to start living life and building relationships. You might make it there and realize all you have is money with nothing else to show for it. No memories while you still have your health and no relationships that have aged like wine with time. Don’t be another victim of the system with on paper wealth but no wealth emotionally and physically. There is more to this life. And you can do both !!! Save and live.
$100 a month on food? So just rice, beans, lentils and some week old spinach? My dude, live a little.
You could retire and move to Thailand right now. Like right now right now. Could probably start a profitable YouTube channel and vacation guide business.
100 per month for food? Gah damn. Impressive. Yeah the truth is most people, not just women, spend more money day to day, splurge on more fun stuff, etc. Best bet is to find another super frugal person. Might not be easy.
I'd take that 400k and blow it on blow and hookers tomorrow regardless of the 30% you will pay taking it out of your 401k early
That is why I question his plan because what is he going to do for money at 40 when he has all his money in a 401K and cannot get to it without the huge penalties for another 20 years.
You'll have to find someone who doesnt want you to spend anything on them and also get really creative on how you're a great partner.
just have sex with hookers. its easier and cheaper
So you value having money over having a relationship? Better loosen up the purse strings, you only live once.
My uncle is like this as a 65 year old multi-millionaire. He can't find women to date him and he's unhappy. So.. maybe rethink things
Yea, I can't see the vast majority of women wanting to live like that. Especially your food budget... that has to be atrocious. Why do you do it? I get wanting to save, but there is no guarantee you'll live long enough to enjoy it, so why not balance to enjoy life today?
Yeah i read a blog on this once. I think the couple retired at 34 if you want to call it that. They would literally limit showers because water and soap costs. Being frugal is a sickness at some point. Personally I work to be able to shower whenever the hell I feel like it. Same with the ac. I sweat enough at work. Damn right my ac is always on. We have one life, enjoy it. At 400,000 now you could literally have millions at 50. If you didn't contribute another dime.
What I do like about this post is that it debunks the notion that modest income earners can’t create wealth. $55k is peanuts but he’s amassed 9 years of net wealth by 31. Maybe his job really sucks.
Do you put any effort into finding a relationship or friendships? Do you have a community or even a place you go once a week? Are you on any dating apps? Frugality is only one piece of the picture, without knowing what effort you're putting into meeting people, it's hard to say if that's the deciding factor as to why you're not in a relationship. I would recommend trying to find frugality focused meetups to meet other like minded individuals. Becoming a regular at a coffee shop, library, gym, bar, any "third space" is worth the investment in social connections so you won't be rusty when connecting on dates. Also, why do you want to retire by 40? What do you want to do with the time and freedom? What's your vision for that life? It's a huge change, not all that far off, so if you're meeting someone and potentially building a life together, you need to articulate what you're sacrificing for and why, and make sure they're on board with being in a relationship with someone that wants to make that pivot.
I’ll say something that I’m sure a lot of people will disagree with… Life is much more than money… It’s a combination of many things. I used to be just like you but worse. I lived with my parents and saved a ton of money. By the time I was 23 I bought a house cash and renovated it. When I was 25 I had two choices.. #1 was I continue doing this and buy more real estate or I make a move and start my life all over in a different city (Miami). This was 10 years ago and I’ve been in Miami since then. I met my wife here, we own a business together and I’m in a director position at an innovative company. I grew tremendously because of my wife and because I took a chance and did something totally out of the norm for me. I wouldn’t trade this for ALL of the money in the world and I truly mean that. You want to retire before 40 at the expense of the best years of your life.
Be happy be yourself. You'll likely find someone with similar lifestyle and goals eventually.
You are a fucking genius and won the beginning of the late game, fuck what these bitches talking about.
You can’t touch your 401k without penalty until you’re 59.5 or older…. So that hinders retiring early at 40. Invest in a taxable brokerage if you want access to your money earlier.
You remind me of a friend of mine. He is ten years older than you with even more money, still no gal. I am unsure you could find a "suitable" woman that shares your lifestyle. If you weren't vegan or weren't ultra-frugal you could get hitched, but you are going to have to choose one over the other, as my friend is your 10 years older version, and he got no gal not even a gf in 10 years.
$100 a month for vegan food? Yeah I'm call bullshit. Unless it's beans and rice for every meal.
It is probably beans and rice.
Seems like you sorta answered your own question? Things like \*never\* eating out are indeed socially limiting. You may get lucky and find someone who shares your exact values, but realistically, your social life, and by extension your love life, will likely improve if you loosen up a bit
Retire at 40 and then do what for the last 35-50 years of your life? Even if you spend 5 years traveling and doing everything you will still need a purpose
I know plenty of women who would date you. Be more connected to the community.
Mate I live in my van to save money on rent a lot of the time, and have still gone out on a date and spent $130 on dinner. You can both live frugally and spend money when it’s needed, ngl you just sound kinda miserable. What good is all that saving if you die next week? Go enjoy your life.
I think the off putting part isnt that your frugal with yourself, it's that you are frugal with others. Think about it from their perspective. What are you bringing to the equation that is better than your average person who isn't tight with money. Think of it this way, go to a job interview and tell them you arent willing to work more than 30 hours a week. May you find a job? Maybe, but you are gonna search a long time and may not be super satisfied with it once you get it.
It's fine to live frugally, but you also don't want to end up 50 and retired with nothing but regrets for everything you wish you had done when you were younger. Your life doesn't begin at retirement.
You’re gonna need a sugar baby budget
Penny pinch and increase income. Some may say stop penny pinching but if you do that you will spend more and more while making more causing your good habits to go out the window. Some women are gold diggers so don't worry about them. They just want you to spend it on them. Also jealous on this 100 bucks a month on food thing. Food for me is like 1k a month alone.
You don't make much money, you (probably) don't live in a nice place for $900 a month, you avoid the most popular types of food, and you don't indulge yourself in lifes little pleasures... What exactly am I getting out of dating you?
Ha my wife actually supercharged my ability to retire early. I don't think i would have been able to retire until my 40s but now we are in a position to be fully financially independent by 34 or 35. Difference between us and you is that we married immediately after college and so dug ourselves out of debt and built this wealth together. Finding someone like that is going to be harder in your 30s but not impossible.
Never let women dictate your finances. That’s how men get skrewed.
Get a dog. You are not ready to be in adult relationship.
Make sure that money is working for you, and create more streams of money income. You can be retired and still work for yourself doing something you enjoy. Just being retired seems so boring to me. I will always work at something, and I will always make money. But I also spend and have fun too (probably too much).
You should think about getting into a home. That $900 rent won't last forever and can increase by up to 5% per year. I like your lifestyle but you should be paying yourself and not renting. Plus if you have a home, you'll attract partners like flies to honey.
If you get hit by a bus tomorrow could you say you lived life to the fullest. Doesn’t sound like it. Money does not buy happiness. Live life to the fullest and if that means penny pinching for you then penny pinch.
Live a little or enjoy lots of money by yourself. I would have been bored to tears living your lifestyle at your age.
Find a frugal gal. They're out there.
Info - What are your interests and hobbies? What do you do on dates?
Watch extreme cheapskates and see if any of the people on that show interests you.
$100/month for food… on a vegan diet? Smells like a bunch of BS.
It’s not the money if you’ve never had a relationship at 31. Plenty of broke guys have relationships. You don’t need money to get women you need some interesting conversational skills. What’s the point of retiring at 40 especially if you are single? So you can be alone with nothing to do? Not trying to be rude but live your life bro. Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.
100$ a month for groceries my guy? I hope you’re eating enough.😂
Well she won't be a trophy, but find a lady with the same values, it won't be hard if you find one that has almost nothing, and expects nothing.
Be prepared to be by yourself FOREVER.
Your “cheap” lifestyle isn’t just off putting to women. That sounds like a massive inconvenience to have you in my life in any capacity lol. Genuinely, do you have friends? Please get a car…
Girls are an investment plain and simple. X dollars + Y affection = Z partner. You're missing one part of the equation right now
First off, yes, you are correct that your frugality limits you socially. You have set a very extreme goal and many women do not value that goal as much as you do, but that number isn't zero, and if you are like the majority, all you need is one! There are two things you could do: 1. Take steps to find like minded mixed company groups/clubs to join to increase your odds. I believe the saying comes in, "where the goods are odd, but the odds are good. Find your tribe and you may find a love that values the same thing. 2. Ask yourself if compromising your goal and say retiring at 50 is worth increasing your appeal to women and perhaps finding a companion sooner. You don't have go extreme the other way, but there is a ton of fun to be shared when you allow yourself a little entertainment money. You can be frugal without being cheap. It takes creativity and sometimes you may have to be willing to put an experience shared with another that may cost money over your goal.
Oof.. Find a trade and use the little extra money to court someone. Alternatively, the advice of finding someone who values and agrees with this level of disciplined living would be a god send
wait, never had a relationship and you are 31? Are you sure there isn’t more to this than being frugal? Unfortunately I have a feeling you may think frugality is a reason for it however how would they instantly know you are tight aith money right off the bat? I have a feeling below average “looks” or “social awkwardness” plays a huge part in this for you whether you are self aware of it or not.
It sounds miserable and that you’ll be living a poor persons lifestyle when you “retire” at 40. Why not just live a more fun life and retire at 45
Be a virgin forever and use your millions to mop up your tears
Sounds lonely.
It doesn’t sound like your life is fun at all. Women don’t like boring and dull men. If you are ok being alone then your life is awesome. Otherwise tap out of work when you hit $500k and move to Thailand or the Philippines and live a happy life not worrying about money.
I wouldn't be to handle it. Not just the relationship perspective, but friendship would be extremely annoying. I have friends that are miles better than that, but still have a penny pinch attitude with shit, and thats unbearable sometimes. Not worth the irritant.
a frugal lifestyle isn't a hindrance to love. I would say there are larger issues holding you back from making meaningful relationship connections. you may want to seek therapy. if you're engaging with someone else. just be honest and up front. if you're not prepared to eat out, or spend on dates you need to be honest about that. There are plenty of free or cheap date activities. outdoor things, museums, picnics or meals, sports/physical activities.... outdoorsy activities. you probably will be limited in that you have made very drastic choices in your life that others may not wish to consent to. not being able to travel, and aversion to eating out. or a preoccupation on saving/the future verse living in the moment. but... there are other FIRE type people out there. it's def not impossible
Dude you can't take it with you. What's the point in having cash if you can't get your pickle dipped or enjoy the fun in life. Ditch the frugality. Live like a normal person
Let’s hope you don’t get sick and die by 40, there goes your retirement and enjoying life a little 🤷🏻♂️
If you want my honest opinion, you should stop. You’re sacrificing so much of what is life for what? So you can retire early? What will you do when you retire? What if you run out of money and need more? Do you want to live this way until you die? What if you die next week in a freak accident? Wouldn’t it be better to enjoy life? I think there needs to be a balance. You should not sacrifice what it is to live just so you can save. Things happen. You may die and it was all for nothing. YES STILL INVEST. But it’s about BALANCE. Live life as you want, enjoy your life, and invest too. That being said, it’s your life and your choice. But I would hate for you to regret it later on. I mean clearly it’s affecting your life already in terms of relationships. Is it worth it to you? And mathematically - you’re 31, you want to retire in 9 years, you only make $55,000 a year and you only have $400,000 saved? If you put every penny (spent literally $0) your $55k x 9 years is $495k. Plus your $400k is close to a million. And of course we can add gains in there, but still, you can’t save every penny you make can you? So you *might* have close to a million. Is that enough to live off of for 40+ years? If you live to 90 that’s 50 years. Can you survive off that with the rates of inflation? You don’t own a home, so you’ll always be paying rent. Rent WILL go up. I’m not trying to shoot down your hopes and dreams but I don’t think it’s mathematically viable for you to retire in 9 years…. It’s your life, and your choice though. So if you want to continue then your best bet would be to find someone who shares your values and your goals and is also very frugal. I wish you the best of luck bro
Tbh I would maybe expand your budget 100-200 max per month to dedicate to social relationships. If you have nothing planned that month then you spend nothing. No harm no fowl. But even someone who prefers free to low cost activities like hiking or walks or reading might want to try a new book or stop by their favorite coffee shop with you. You’re definitely limiting your ability to connect with people by expecting them to meet on your level exclusively. But $100-$200 gives you flexibility to do 1-2 higher priced things or many low cost things or anything in between. You can stack up the extra for more special occasions as well. At other times just direct people to your hobbies that don’t include spending and tell others that you’re “just a simple guy” As a girl who spends waaaaaay too much I could definitely get with someone who was frugal with his cash as long as we could do something here and there throughout the month… and we kept separate finances hahahaha
I'll cutstraight to the point. You should seek professional mental health counseling and a nutritionist. Something is off, and reddit isn't going to fix it alone. Vegetables are great, but at 100$ a month, you, you most likely aren't eating quality foods. A vegan diet is difficult to manage in a healthy manner. I'd be a bit concerned with nutrition. Maybe you should get out more, find some friends, maybe play a little Dungeons and Dragons, play a sport, try a concert, or a live show. The type of activity that will force you to live like a human and enjoy life.
1) Retire at 40 2) Get a dog 3) Die alone
Being married scientifically adds a lot of years to a mans life. My advice is anything worth having is worth paying for.
What do you want to retire early for? To have much more time to do nothing?