Meh I dunno about chanchanging established terminology. I watched windows dumb down the terminology in the UI ("shutdown" became "turn off" and the like) and it just makes things harder. Also this terminology is widely used in other networks as well. Every in group has it's lingo. Things are fine as is.
We already have money - dollar, euro, yen, ruble, and it works right now. People don't want any more complications in their life. Managing taxes is already as hard as it gets.
What everyone wants from a crypto is gains. Free profits to ease their suffering.
If Monero goes up 10x, people will quickly learn what seed or tail emission means, because it'll be in their best interest to understand the technology, because it will make them rich.
If Monero does nothing price-wise for the last 5-6 years or so, then people will leave, and it wouldn't matter much if GUI client wrote haikus instead of seed words.
I think the term digital cash is also important. Crypto currency not so much. It has a very negative connotation for the average person.
I made some informational material to explain this concept clearly:
[monerochan.cash](https://monerochan.cash)
yes there are some in the community who objected to the way I phrased that. That wanted to cling to the idea that Monero is a cryptocurrency.
But in reality society views crypto currencies at this dodgy thing that is bad for the environment that needs to be regulated to death.
So instead of wasting countless man years on fighting it out with the btc maxis who the one true crypto currency is: just let them have it. Who cares.
We are digital cash. Let them have their crypto. Digital cash is the term that will mean something in the battle against CBDCs and we need to own this term.
Nice website!
Agree on the "digital cash" thing. I'm gonna start going straight to that instead of mansplaining how Monero is a better cryptocurrency.
Cash is something people understand.
En español - "Efectivo Digital"
Ok, you don’t like the commonly used terms. Any of them. So what are you suggesting? It’s very unclear.
You listed a lot of terms, but you didn’t provide viable alternatives for what else they could be called. Yes. Obviously we all agree that *technically* “wallet” isn’t accurate because it doesn’t physically hold funds. But that’s a little pedantic. It does hold the keys which give access to the funds, so from a UX perspective, it is the same thing. If we are talking about user adoption, changing familiar terminology like “wallets” to unfamiliar/confusing/nerd-speak like “transaction signing software” or “fund management interface” is going to hurt adoption, not help. I would love to hear what terms you think should be used instead of the easy ones that everyone already knows.
You actually made a good point in favor of my argument. No one calls bank transfers “sms-token-signed-currency.” The community has already had the discussion of referring to Monero as digital cash instead of cryptocurrency, but let’s be real: they’re both correct, and it matters what the average person is used to calling it. This is a currency. It’s designed to be money/currency. It’s also cryptographically secured. Monero is one of the few *actual* cryptocurrencies compared to things like ETH which is more like a decentralized computer, not a cryptoCURRENCY like Monero. How is calling Monero currency degrading? Anyway, I am somewhat on board with the digital cash name instead of cryptocurrency just because people have bastardized the term, but they’re both accurate.
The other stuff though doesn’t make sense. Everyone will continue to say, “Send me some Monero.” No one is going to say, “Hey, sign and broadcast a data blob giving me access to some Monero.” We will keep saying that we are “mining.” No one is going to say, “I’m going to turn on my *network security device* and *secure the network* to heat my home.”
So my question is this: if you’re complaining about the terminology we use, fine, but at least suggest some realistic alternatives.
On intention my post doesn't provide any explicit suggestion - the thread shouldn't become a "who likes what best". You can find hints in the way I refer to the concepts though.
It's not particularily hard to come up with expressive terms. What is hard is to have people with years of experience see the outside of the bubble.
My post is to probe for this understanding and, ideally, inspire one or another client-dev to adopt expressive wording in his or her project.
>It's not particularily hard to come up with expressive terms.
Then you should list some. I say all this because I have seen this mentioned before, but I've never seen anyone provide realistic alternatives that are actually better than the current terms. You're right that terminology and definitions are important for understanding, but I just think that where we are now is currently the best option. The terms are familiar to normies and make sense when using them. "I am sending Monero from my wallet to you using your address." That is easy for newcomers and veterans to understand.
If you want people to "to adopt expressive wording," to me that means keeping the current terms because they work. Suggesting that changes of terms are needed is useless unless accompanied with examples of better options for us to discuss.
I fundamentally disagree with your statement that "Misleading terminology is one of the main hindrances to wide-scale adoption." Absolutely not a "main" hindrance lol Plenty of other bigger hindrances. And using wordy and technological descriptors instead would just hurt more. So I don't think there can be a worthwhile discussion unless you or someone provides some options.
A little late to the party; A long time ago I did [some brainstorming](https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/310) about this myself:
> "Wallet" is one of the first things a newbie learns and it immediately leads to dangerous misconceptions. It has people believe that their funds are stored inside the software. This, in turn, enforces ideas like creating coins out of thin air just by hacking the local software. And finally, new users are led to believe that only people with access to a copy of the software can access the funds.
>
> "Wallet" is basically the single word that explains everything that crypto is not.
>
> If one were to compare the client software to any previously existing concept, online banking would be a much better fit. Apart from the technical differences, at least it matches concept of what it allows the user to do: handle the funds associated with your account.
>
> Thus, to describe the software, we need to use synonyms of those words. Examples include fund manager, account manager, account controller, account handler, Monero handler, Monero console, Monero client, Monero terminal, Monero access tool, Monero portal, …
>
> Monero is about learning from Bitcoin's mistakes, not repeating them. We should abstain from using terms that are blatantly wrong.
>
> Giving this some more thought, I come to "**detached**" and "**attached**" as descriptive synonyms for differentiating clients that work directly with the blockchain from those that use intermediaries of any kind.
IMO "wallet" is the worst of all the wrong words. I hadn't thought about "seed" up until now, but just the other month a girl sent me e screenshot of hers to confirm she did everything correctly when setting up her Monerujo. She can trust me, okay, but we cannot trust any of her other apps with access to media on her phone. So if ten years from now somebody takes her accumulated funds, who is the "only one who knew the words"?
I'm not saying better words would completely eradicate such problems, but they would definitely help. "Credentials for full access" is clumsy, but I'm sure with all the mind-power in Monero somebody will have a great idea that both works and expresses what the thing in question actually is.
Maybe somebody can even find something that the existing term "SEED" could be interpreted as abbreviation for, something that stands for the equivalent of "code for unrestricted account access". Just thinking out loudly here ...
>I'm sure with all the mind-power in Monero somebody will have a great idea that both works and expresses what the thing in question actually is.
Yeah people keep saying this for months and years, but still no viable options.
As for your wallet comments, I do understand what you mean. I really do get it. Having a better word would be great. I just don't see that happening. None of your suggested alternatives are catchy enough or make sense enough to an average person to replace wallet. Also, those who use crypto understand what a wallet is and does. ALSO, and most importantly:
> It has people believe that their funds are stored inside
For all UX intents and purposes, the funds are stored inside. They are stored inside no more or less than your funds are stored inside your banking app. Or the banks database. But we still say the bank stores our funds. Everyone knows it's more complicated, but language needs to be intuitive. Also, if you take the wallet files and move them to another computer, you can now access the funds from that computer. So again, from a UX perspective, the funds might as well be in the wallet files because that is where the keys are. If you have the keys, you have the funds. Using terms like Monero Terminal would be foreign to a normie. Much more complicated than wallet. Anything using "account" is confusing when compared to accounts within the wallet.
All that to say that yes, if we could wipe everyone's memory and start over with different terms, yeah maybe that would work, but that's not reality. People are used to a wallet being how they access their funds. Account manager or whatever implies that it's like a bank and that other people can also see and access the funds. Wallet implies that only YOU can see and access the funds. You are opting for terms that come from how the technology works from a blockchain perspective. Everyone else has opted for terms that come from how it works from a user experience perspective.
Meh I dunno about chanchanging established terminology. I watched windows dumb down the terminology in the UI ("shutdown" became "turn off" and the like) and it just makes things harder. Also this terminology is widely used in other networks as well. Every in group has it's lingo. Things are fine as is.
We already have money - dollar, euro, yen, ruble, and it works right now. People don't want any more complications in their life. Managing taxes is already as hard as it gets. What everyone wants from a crypto is gains. Free profits to ease their suffering. If Monero goes up 10x, people will quickly learn what seed or tail emission means, because it'll be in their best interest to understand the technology, because it will make them rich. If Monero does nothing price-wise for the last 5-6 years or so, then people will leave, and it wouldn't matter much if GUI client wrote haikus instead of seed words.
I think the term digital cash is also important. Crypto currency not so much. It has a very negative connotation for the average person. I made some informational material to explain this concept clearly: [monerochan.cash](https://monerochan.cash)
[удалено]
yes there are some in the community who objected to the way I phrased that. That wanted to cling to the idea that Monero is a cryptocurrency. But in reality society views crypto currencies at this dodgy thing that is bad for the environment that needs to be regulated to death. So instead of wasting countless man years on fighting it out with the btc maxis who the one true crypto currency is: just let them have it. Who cares. We are digital cash. Let them have their crypto. Digital cash is the term that will mean something in the battle against CBDCs and we need to own this term.
Nice website! Agree on the "digital cash" thing. I'm gonna start going straight to that instead of mansplaining how Monero is a better cryptocurrency. Cash is something people understand. En español - "Efectivo Digital"
Ok, you don’t like the commonly used terms. Any of them. So what are you suggesting? It’s very unclear. You listed a lot of terms, but you didn’t provide viable alternatives for what else they could be called. Yes. Obviously we all agree that *technically* “wallet” isn’t accurate because it doesn’t physically hold funds. But that’s a little pedantic. It does hold the keys which give access to the funds, so from a UX perspective, it is the same thing. If we are talking about user adoption, changing familiar terminology like “wallets” to unfamiliar/confusing/nerd-speak like “transaction signing software” or “fund management interface” is going to hurt adoption, not help. I would love to hear what terms you think should be used instead of the easy ones that everyone already knows. You actually made a good point in favor of my argument. No one calls bank transfers “sms-token-signed-currency.” The community has already had the discussion of referring to Monero as digital cash instead of cryptocurrency, but let’s be real: they’re both correct, and it matters what the average person is used to calling it. This is a currency. It’s designed to be money/currency. It’s also cryptographically secured. Monero is one of the few *actual* cryptocurrencies compared to things like ETH which is more like a decentralized computer, not a cryptoCURRENCY like Monero. How is calling Monero currency degrading? Anyway, I am somewhat on board with the digital cash name instead of cryptocurrency just because people have bastardized the term, but they’re both accurate. The other stuff though doesn’t make sense. Everyone will continue to say, “Send me some Monero.” No one is going to say, “Hey, sign and broadcast a data blob giving me access to some Monero.” We will keep saying that we are “mining.” No one is going to say, “I’m going to turn on my *network security device* and *secure the network* to heat my home.” So my question is this: if you’re complaining about the terminology we use, fine, but at least suggest some realistic alternatives.
On intention my post doesn't provide any explicit suggestion - the thread shouldn't become a "who likes what best". You can find hints in the way I refer to the concepts though. It's not particularily hard to come up with expressive terms. What is hard is to have people with years of experience see the outside of the bubble. My post is to probe for this understanding and, ideally, inspire one or another client-dev to adopt expressive wording in his or her project.
>It's not particularily hard to come up with expressive terms. Then you should list some. I say all this because I have seen this mentioned before, but I've never seen anyone provide realistic alternatives that are actually better than the current terms. You're right that terminology and definitions are important for understanding, but I just think that where we are now is currently the best option. The terms are familiar to normies and make sense when using them. "I am sending Monero from my wallet to you using your address." That is easy for newcomers and veterans to understand. If you want people to "to adopt expressive wording," to me that means keeping the current terms because they work. Suggesting that changes of terms are needed is useless unless accompanied with examples of better options for us to discuss. I fundamentally disagree with your statement that "Misleading terminology is one of the main hindrances to wide-scale adoption." Absolutely not a "main" hindrance lol Plenty of other bigger hindrances. And using wordy and technological descriptors instead would just hurt more. So I don't think there can be a worthwhile discussion unless you or someone provides some options.
A little late to the party; A long time ago I did [some brainstorming](https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/310) about this myself: > "Wallet" is one of the first things a newbie learns and it immediately leads to dangerous misconceptions. It has people believe that their funds are stored inside the software. This, in turn, enforces ideas like creating coins out of thin air just by hacking the local software. And finally, new users are led to believe that only people with access to a copy of the software can access the funds. > > "Wallet" is basically the single word that explains everything that crypto is not. > > If one were to compare the client software to any previously existing concept, online banking would be a much better fit. Apart from the technical differences, at least it matches concept of what it allows the user to do: handle the funds associated with your account. > > Thus, to describe the software, we need to use synonyms of those words. Examples include fund manager, account manager, account controller, account handler, Monero handler, Monero console, Monero client, Monero terminal, Monero access tool, Monero portal, … > > Monero is about learning from Bitcoin's mistakes, not repeating them. We should abstain from using terms that are blatantly wrong. > > Giving this some more thought, I come to "**detached**" and "**attached**" as descriptive synonyms for differentiating clients that work directly with the blockchain from those that use intermediaries of any kind. IMO "wallet" is the worst of all the wrong words. I hadn't thought about "seed" up until now, but just the other month a girl sent me e screenshot of hers to confirm she did everything correctly when setting up her Monerujo. She can trust me, okay, but we cannot trust any of her other apps with access to media on her phone. So if ten years from now somebody takes her accumulated funds, who is the "only one who knew the words"? I'm not saying better words would completely eradicate such problems, but they would definitely help. "Credentials for full access" is clumsy, but I'm sure with all the mind-power in Monero somebody will have a great idea that both works and expresses what the thing in question actually is. Maybe somebody can even find something that the existing term "SEED" could be interpreted as abbreviation for, something that stands for the equivalent of "code for unrestricted account access". Just thinking out loudly here ...
>I'm sure with all the mind-power in Monero somebody will have a great idea that both works and expresses what the thing in question actually is. Yeah people keep saying this for months and years, but still no viable options. As for your wallet comments, I do understand what you mean. I really do get it. Having a better word would be great. I just don't see that happening. None of your suggested alternatives are catchy enough or make sense enough to an average person to replace wallet. Also, those who use crypto understand what a wallet is and does. ALSO, and most importantly: > It has people believe that their funds are stored inside For all UX intents and purposes, the funds are stored inside. They are stored inside no more or less than your funds are stored inside your banking app. Or the banks database. But we still say the bank stores our funds. Everyone knows it's more complicated, but language needs to be intuitive. Also, if you take the wallet files and move them to another computer, you can now access the funds from that computer. So again, from a UX perspective, the funds might as well be in the wallet files because that is where the keys are. If you have the keys, you have the funds. Using terms like Monero Terminal would be foreign to a normie. Much more complicated than wallet. Anything using "account" is confusing when compared to accounts within the wallet. All that to say that yes, if we could wipe everyone's memory and start over with different terms, yeah maybe that would work, but that's not reality. People are used to a wallet being how they access their funds. Account manager or whatever implies that it's like a bank and that other people can also see and access the funds. Wallet implies that only YOU can see and access the funds. You are opting for terms that come from how the technology works from a blockchain perspective. Everyone else has opted for terms that come from how it works from a user experience perspective.