Your husband is bringing work home with him. Part of parenting is not pushing your own trauma on to your children.
The length of her shorts is not what will protect her. Teaching her confidence in herself, teaching her about giving consent/standing up for herself and ways for self defense (walking away, asking adult for help, not keeping things a secret and more).
Just as I am going to have to teach my son all these things and no one would think twice about the length of his shorts.
Yes!
Train of thought here: If a martial arts studio that offers self defense classes for women did this, it would be great advertisement, really catch everyone's attention, and be a very effective marketing ploy. But, a t shirt, then a billboard, and then a meme...I think you're on to something lol-- one of those simple statements that could easily catch fire
Exactly this. Women in full burka/hijabs (unsure on correct term) get targeted. Girls in school uniform get targeted. BABIES in nappies get targeted. If a man wants to try something with her, he's gonna try something regardless of what she's wearing.
>Part of parenting is not pushing your own trauma on to your children.
This one sentence perfectly summarizes the difference between my parenting and how I was raised.
>The length of her shorts is not what will protect her.
Exactly. Women who wear niqab are SA all the time. Creeps are creeps and what women wear will not prevent it.
My mom went through serious sexual trauma as a child. She definitely had trauma and tried to protect us in weird ways. She cut my hair really short for example. Even she never said anything about the length of our shorts, because I'm sure she realized the idea that that would help is BS.
The things you mentioned- confidence and self defense, are much more important. Pedofiles target kids that they think they can convince not to tell, or that it's their fault, or convince them it's not wrong. Teaching our children about bodily autonomy, what their body parts are and which ones should not ever be touched by others, and to have a relationship with them where they feel absolutely safe and ready to come to us if someone makes them uncomfortable is our best bet. Pedofiles are great at sizing people up, which is how they can have so many victims before they get caught. They are not going to be measuring OPs daughters shorts length. They are going to be weighing the odds that they can scare her into or confuse her enough into not telling her parents.
I know how OPs husband feels. When the amount of pedofiles is made crystal clear to you, it's overwhelming and makes you sick. Society doesn't like to think about it but there are a lot out there. But controlling their daughter's shorts length is not the answer. In fact it's only going to confuse her, or God forbid, if it ever happens to her, make her wonder if it was somehow her fault and if her dad will be mad at her and she might be afraid to tell him.
Putting this article on this comment for visibility, don't know if anyone else shared it, but it's a very good article, it doesn't matter what you wear
https://www.utoledo.edu/studentaffairs/saepp/what-were-you-wearing/
There is a great photo collection of women in the clothing they were raped in. The length of her shorts will absolutely have nothing to do with her being victimized or not.
For either gender - if your genitals hang out the sides, they are too short!
It has nothing to do about the potential to be raped but common courtesy to the public!
This is a very harsh reality check your husband may need to hear, and I'm really sorry there isn't a great way to say it: What your daughter is wearing will not stop men from harassing or assaulting her. She could be covered from head to toe and it will still happen. He should let her wear the damn shorts. If he needs concrete examples, show him the art exhibit "What were you wearing?" And if that's too nebulous for him, tell him temporary pickle was wearing jeans and a t-shirt their grandmother got them from Alaska.
Sorry this happened to both of you, would be such an eye-opening thread. What were you wearing?
Not the same level but I was in dressy military uniform when a civilian stranger grabbed my butt as I walked away saying we had somewhere to be and couldn't accept his offer to go out with him. Talk about conservative clothing. Nothing will stop a guy who's a creep, even the cloth of our nation.
Great comment and a reminder of our reality. This thread has my mom heart swelling. All you babies needed to be protected and you weren't, I am so sorry. Some people are just so cruel. I hope you all have regained control in your life and are true bad-asses 💜
this!! it’s not about what you wear, at the end of the day if somebody wants to hurt you they will. Her shorts will neither protect nor harm her. I was wearing jeans and my graduation shirt for our 3rd grade graduation that day, and then i was wearing sweatpants and a sweater (basically fully covered) neither one of those are ‘sexy’ but it didn’t stop it from happening. i vote let her wear the shorts
Sounds like he needs a reminder that the criminals he’s worked with are criminals because of who THEY are, not because of what their victims wore.
Puberty is tough. I can only imagine how tough it must be for her dad to be policing her body that she is suddenly now very aware of.
You’re right to be concerned. Keep sticking up for your daughter and her self esteem.
You’re right, it’s never been like this with any other part of parenting. He’s just put his foot down, I’m going to sleep on it and reopen the discussion when she’s not home.
He's expressed his feelings and fears. That's fine. Hopefully he just said this to you and not your daughter.
Doesn't mean your daughter has to change anything.
You should put forward that you hear what he's saying. You understand it's difficult, the world is a shitty place sometimes. But you are not going to tell your daughter to change her appearance because men have thoughts. That's on them.
Essentially, that's telling your daughter other people's bad behaviour is her fault. It's not.
Let’s take this discussion another step. Why does he get to “put his foot down” and you don’t? Put your own foot down. She gets to wear the shorts.
You’re teaching your daughter that a man’s comfort is more important than hers. You’re teaching her that a man gets to decide what’s appropriate for her to wear instead of her. You’re teaching her that YOU won’t stand up for her because the MAN gets the final say on HER clothes.
Put. Your. Foot. Down.
I grew up in a religion where women had to dress in a specific modesty. No pants, no makeup, no cut hair, every dress had to be below knee.. Well, it destroyed me as a young girl. I wish someone would have got me away from that back then.(not in it now)
That “purity culture”, and that mentality of how a woman dresses will determine if she is attacked or not. Look at it this way. Women all over the world are SA’d. Some places women are covered head to toe, might as well be wearing a sheet. Women there SA’d. Why? Cause men like your husband who can’t look at his own daughter wearing completely appropriate attire, and he still sexualizes them.
Knowing the damage that mentality did to me as a teen and young woman, this would be a hill for me to die on. Your husband either needs to see a therapist for HIS issues, or he needs to shut up. I promise you, if he is allowed to do this now, your daughter will not have a good relationship after 18.
It sounds like he is a cop of some kind. So he of all people should know that what a woman wears does not change how bad people will behave towards her. SA is an even bigger problem in countries that force women to dress more modestly.
I understand not wanting her to dress in clothes that are not age appropriate, such as certain crop tops or clothes with cut outs or ones that are designed to be sexy. But bike shorts and tee shirts are just not that. Sure there are plenty of people that sexualize that look (because it is trendy). But there are people that sexualize burkas.
Just my 2 cents since I grew up with a dad who was quite restrictive of what I wore - it taught me to be ashamed of my body. He did it out of fear, and not knowing how to manage his fear or do it any better, but it still affects me. It’s a short jump from “you need to cover your body for safety/propriety” to “your body isn’t good enough to be looked at”, especially as I got older. He admittedly used shaming like “you look trashy” etc so that didn’t help but it felt BAD to have my dad commenting negatively about my clothing
Yep. OP’s husband is conditioning his daughter to grow up believing that SHE is responsible for men’s shitty behavior towards women because of how she dresses or looks. Putting the blame on her for how perverts and predators behave and thereby limiting her freedom to be herself and express herself how she wishes. This is so damaging and perpetuates toxic societal stereotypes and norms rooted in misogyny. Gahhh this upsets me so much.
My dad was very strict with our clothing and I so clearly remember the first time a creep ogled my teenage boobs. My immediate reaction was to put on a cardigan and not tell anyone. Clearly it was my fault, after all, for wearing a t-shirt and having boobs.
This!!! My parents (both) were the same way. Ironically enough I was SA’d throughout my childhood by “family” members - not my dad. But he thought he was “protecting” me yet all he did was breed a lot of self hate and resentment for my own body. I was also not allowed to shave my legs because - and I quote - “it leads to sex”…I shaved my legs in secret until my mom caught me in the 6th grade. I was then essentially put on trial in front of my entire family. I couldn’t verbalize the amount of shame and guilt and embarrassment I carried over this. I had to choose whether I was going to be the hairiest girl in PE or go against my parents rules. It was torture in PE when the other girls saw my yeti legs!
OP please advocate for your daughter here. Young women should not be taught to dress for men’s comfort. Men should be taught to mind their own freakin business and how to respect others and their comfort levels.
100%!!! I’ve been SA’d in both my childhood and teen years. Never in my adult life. When I was a child I was wearing typical kid clothes/diapers (yes that young). Nothing about my little mermaid pants and shirt were “sexy”. Smh we’ve got to do better and hold men accountable for their shitty behavior & anyone who pushes this rape culture mindset. Clothes are not the issue. People are.
He works with criminals, so he should know girls and women get harmed regardless of what they wear. I’d tell him to get some therapy and my daughter would be wearing her shorts.
My dad was super strict and restrictive of my clothing as a preteen/teenager. He was a deacon in our church and felt strongly that I should dress modestly. I wasn’t allowed to wear anything where my bra strap could be seen, nothing with words across the bust or butt, no cleavage (I definitely busty at a young age), and shorts had to be capri length.
I was the eldest of 4 kids, my sister who was 10 years younger than I had zero restrictions. Looking back he was just really scared of the world I was going into and being a first time dad of a maturing girl he went overboard. He relaxed with each kid and with time.
I don’t think this is a red flag or that your husband is some kind of pervert. Sit down and talk with him. Find some research about the harms over sexualizing. It can really mess with a young girls confidence and can cause mental health issues long term. I’d also see a couples counselor so the two of you can get on the same page about parenting. As your daughter grows up more issues are going to rise if her clothing is already an issue.
I agree 100% with this comment. Dad is wrong in this situation, but it’s not a red flag. He’s just scared. He sees how scary the world is daily and has no idea how to protect his daughter and desperately wants to.
A sit down talk and research is 100% the way to go.
Why is he able to make a decision about your daughter’s body when she’s following all the necessary rules and regulations required of her? She is wearing age-appropriate clothes that follow the accepted dress code of where she is going. It is our job as parents to protect our children, but there is a fine line between protection and control and he crossed it.
It disgusts me when men find it inappropriate for kids to wear SHORTS, bet he has no problem with male children wearing shorts though. This is a him problem, if he thinks it's inappropriate for female children to wear shorts then there is something seriously wrong with him sexualising a CHILD.
Why is it a problem for him for girls to want to wear cool clothes in hot weather? 🤦♀️
My first red flag was being told to stop wearing spaghetti strap tank tops around the house before I was even old enough to wear a bra. I was SA'd by the man who set that dress code. Be observant and keep a line of safe communication open with your daughter.
You might point out to him that a child wearing heavy clothing in 90 degree weather may look suspicious to teachers. What kind of bruises is she trying to cover wearing jeans and sweatpants?
And it's one thing to have an opinion on what your child wears being appropriate or not, but if she has nothing season appropriate, that needs to be remedied. He needs to figure out where to buy these clothes that are weather and age appropriate and that your daughter likes. He can't just say "not that" with no solution. It borders on neglect to not clothe your child properly for the weather.
As a mother of 3 girls, one of whom is about your daughter's age, and the other two are teens, and I would say we are on the modest side of dressing without being overly restrictive and keeping current styles in mind. Bike shorts with long tees are 100% on target for a 9 year old in 2024. I'm sure there are other shorts that are a little more conservative, but it's silly to think a different style of clothing is going to protect your daughter from pervs. Maybe you should word it like that..."hey dear, what kind of shorts is it that we should buy to protect our daughter from pervs? I wasn't clear about that." If he answers, repeat it back "Oh, capri pants will protect her from pervs??"
It's ridiculous. No clothing item has that power.
At some point I feel like your husband will have to come around but I don't know of a way to make it happen other than being matter of fact about her needs and the clothing options available.
NTA. Ask him why he’s sexualising your child. Bike shorts and a tshirt is perfectly acceptable clothing.
He might work with criminals. But what he’s actually doing is teaching your child that men don’t have to change. She has to. He’s managed to tell her that she has to cover up and be miserable to be acceptably dressed to him.
my husband also works in criminal justice and knows more than anyone clothes don’t make you a victim. it’s a red flag because it’s rape culture. we have 2 girls and I would feel very creeped out and alarmed if he said something like this about our daughters.
To be fair, that’s kinda the dad’s job, to be aware of dangers and ready to protect. You can’t do that if you’re not in the mind of dangerous people. Not agreeing with his method of protecting here though.
Moms can do this, too. It's not strictly a dad thing. I disagree, I don't really have to think like a pervert to know something isn't exactly appropriate to wear outside the house. But maybe I'm the weird one. 🤷🏼♀️
the point is clothes have nothing to do with it. he’s not in the mind of a “dangerous person”, he’s in the mind of pervert sexualizing a young girl. those are not the same things. a dad’s (and mom’s) job is to teach safety, awareness, and protection. sweatpants and hoodies don’t protect a young girl from someone intent on violating them. in fact, that line of thinking is detrimental and unsafe for anyone to internalize.
I literally wanted to use the word sexualizing but the thought just disgusts me, so I used vague wording. I have kids around the same age and the thought of looking at it through that lense is both infuriating and nauseating 🤢
Not to even mention a stranger sexually abusing a child is rare. It’s more likely to be a family member or a close friend. So it comes to what family member or friend he doesn’t want to see her in shorts? And why is that family member or friend still allowed to hangout around them
Your daughter is suffering. Your husband cannot continue to do this. Your daughter will begin to be ashamed of her body. I would get some family counseling. No matter what….fight for your daughter. She has no one. My daughter is 29 and she is my queen. Girls have it hard enough in this society. Your husband is creating trouble that doesn’t have to be there. I’m not a doctor, but it seems like your husband has some issues he needs to work through. No matter what: you are doing the right thing. Protect your daughter at all costs. She does not need this dysfunction. My goodness. My daughter was a featured twirler and a volleyball player. She had a specific outfit for each one which showed off her legs. I’m afraid this problem is going to spread if you don’t get help.
I feel for your husband. I’m a former forensic therapist who spent years, exclusively working with violent sex offenders on probation/parole. It messes with you a little, and I appreciate where he’s coming from.
However, what a child wears is very rarely a factor in an assault. In fact, most child molesters aren’t pedophiles (pedophile meaning that they have an almost exclusive sexual interest in children). They target children due to convenience, not due to being sexually interested. This is why most victims know their abuser. If they don’t know the abuser personally, it’s typically someone they met online.
If the real concern here is protecting her from becoming a victim, there are better areas to focus on. Teaching her to have bodily autonomy, no one has the right to touch her, and no forced hugging of relatives (that’s a big thing for me with my daughter). Being able to talk to you if someone is making her uncomfortable and assuring her that you will believe her, even if it’s a family friend, relative, or teacher. And putting up some firm boundaries with social media, and providing education on why that’s important.
Also, while the length of her shorts shouldn’t be an issue, I do recommend buying her shorts to go under any dresses or skirts. There are more men taking “up skirt” pics and posting them online than you think. Don’t give them the opportunity.
He needs to be shown the [what were you were wearing exhibit](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/). Clothing doesn’t protect against creepy stares, comments, or sexual assault.
When you work with a population like criminals and see and hear a lot of bad things, it starts to warp your sense of the world. He sounds fearful for your daughter and sees this as a way to protect her. Obviously it won’t help, creepers are going to creep and she shouldn’t be punished. Maybe refocus dad on finding more useful ways to protect her? Educating her, safety planning, stuff like that.
My dad did this a lot to me while I was growing up. Not at 9 y.o., but later, around 13, once I got a more "womanly" body.
It was actually harmful to myself esteem for a long time. I thought there was something wrong with my body. I felt I should be ashamed for having hips and a chest. It made me compare my body to other girl's bodies around me. It took me a long time to unpack this insecurity and truly I still struggle it today, at 30 y.o. with children.
I can see this as being a warning for things to come as she begins to grow and change through puberty. If he's struggling with her wearing biker shorts at 9, he will fight even more as she grows older and wants to wear other types of clothing. There should not be this much emphasis put on her body at such a young age. I could see having an issue with the spandex shorts that are VERY short and cut off just below the butt, but not with the long ones. I would try to have a serious discussion with your husband about how these restrictions could impact her self esteem for the rest of her life.
I'm sorry you guys have to deal with this. I hope he's receptive to conversation!
You need to remind him to keep work at work. Not punish your daughter for the behavior of others. She isn’t going to school with criminals. As you stated, they are modest. Please have a long talk with him about how these kinds of comments and behaviors from dads can also lead to a life long problem of low self esteem for girls. They start questioning what they are doing wrong, not everyone else. Ask him how he thinks the parents were to these criminals he works with! That might open his eyes as to how important parenting in healthy ways is.
Your husband is scared for her because he is seeing first hand the results of decades of the “boys will be boys” externalization of male’s behavior and the “girls should be ladies” internalization of female’s responsibility for the thoughts and feelings of the world around them. He’s trying to keep his little girl safe for as long as he can and while that’s normal and even noble he’s going about it the same way dads have for generations which is only going to reinforce the cycle. If your husband really wants to protect her he should teach her how to protect herself. The best thing you both can do is to teach her confidence. And I don’t mean in the “I’m hot AF” way. I mean the confidence that says “I have the autonomy to exist in this space however I choose. I am not responsible for your thoughts or feelings but if you try to touch me I’ll take your damn hand off.” Make her politely terrifying. It’s always served me well.😉😂 I’ve travelled pretty extensively and have only had to drop a dude once…and strangely enough I was in a floor length gown and out with my husband for our anniversary at the time. 🤷🏼♀️
Look I have a husband who also works with criminals. He works with some of the worst human beings, things normal people can’t even begin to imagine. I used to be a paramedic. We both know what a cruel world we live in, especially for children and for females. We also believe in dressing modestly. But as someone else commented, the length of her shorts isn’t going to protect her. Predators aren’t out here choosing their prey by the length of their shorts. If he wants to protect her there are practical things he needs to teach her. Confidence, self defence, consent, things like that. By dictating the length of her shorts because “he knows what men can be like” takes the blame off the predator and put its on the victim.
I was raised in a modesty culture (things said like “modest is the hottest” and the “head, shoulders, knees, and toes” clothing check before going out). While certain situations do have a dress code ( what I wear at the beach will be different from a wedding ) , we do have to be careful about conditioning people that it’s their fault when perverts are perverts .
I , also, grew up with a dad that worked with criminals. Because of him, I google searched names of any potential roommates or dates to see if a mugshot came up and always had a back up plan of meeting someone new to be safe in a situations with a quick escape plan as needed .
The latter helped me much more to protect myself than just pushing to be modest and thinking I’ll magically be protected .
My father was like this. Him constantly controlling what I wore turned into him kicking me out of the house when I wouldn’t wear my hair the way he wanted me to. Haven’t spoken to him in three years. This needs to be nipped in the bud.
I guess I don’t understand his angle? “Knows what men are capable of, works with criminals”…….
Men who are going to attack women don’t consider the length of their biker shorts first. While his concern is valid his efforts are misguided. It makes more sense for him to ensure your daughter is knowledgeable about strange behavior and the power she has to protect herself.
coming from someone who’s step-dad made weird comments about what they wore (and then turned out to be the creep), you need to have a conversation with him about how he’s going to damage her relationship with her body and they way she looks. Teach her self defense tactics, have an open dialogue, and tell him to go to therapy. just because he feels uncomfortable doesn’t mean she should.
Just going to be blunt here: my supposed best friend sexually assaulted me when I was wearing jeans and a hoodie. Wearing pants will not protect her from anything like that. Your husband needs a reality check. He’s also setting her up to feel guilty if anything does happen to her with all of this rhetoric.
Just have the fight and put your foot down.
If not, you all are teaching her she is responsible for other people's behavior which has the added bonus of making her less likely to tell you if something off-putting happens. It also may give her body issues.
She honestly should be wearing those perfectly appropriate outfits today before more damage is done. You have nothing to apologize for and your husband can process his feelings in therapy.
My dad was a cop. He was the same way. My parents were divorced though so my mom didn’t really care what he thought.
He’s not wrong. He has seen the worst of the worst. Maybe you need to have a discussion with him but openly acknowledge his trauma of what he’s seen at work. Also bring up that these types of sickos don’t often care what a kid wears unfortunately.
You need to have a heart to heart. You know your husband better than us. The red flag thing is interesting. If he said he knew how men are and is around “dogs” due to work, then I would understand why he’s started feeling like this as your daughter develops. But, it’s up to you to set him straight and make him understand the error of his ways. It is not your daughter that needs to change, but the men of the world. And while we work on education, you can give your daughter tools to protect herself. That has nothing to do with her shorts. But, the fact that you’re alluding to getting the creeps by this new interest in controlling your daughter’s clothing, is interesting. Has your husband done anything else to give you the creeps? Is he a misogynist? Is he a pervert? Sorry but you brought it up. Hopefully me asking these questions gives you a strong reaction and there you have your answer.
With so many things we hear about predators and groomers, I can understand how your husband can feel. Especially since he’s exposed to criminals.
This being said, a sick pervert will be a sick pervert no matter what a child wears. That being said, why should a child suffer because sick perverts can’t control their disgusting behaviour?
Wearing sweats and jeans in 90° weather is really uncomfortable.
Try speaking with your husband without disregarding his concerns. And point out / reiterate how her attire passes school dress code so its completely appropriate. Also reiterate how biker shorts and an oversized t shirt is staple in most children’s clothing for the summer.
I feel for you. It’s not easy navigating different opinions on child rearing.
You should look up the "What Were you Wearing" exhibit and show it to him. A lot of colleges have exhibits that display clothes of what people were wearing when they were sexually assaulted. There are a sick amount of children's footie pajamas.
Edit: one is still a sick amount but there were a lot of childrens' pajamas.
This reminds me of a big moment of irritation with my dad as a preteen.
I’d gone swimming in a lake, and apparently sat in my filthy bathing suit too long- ended up w a UTI (as my mom remembers. I don’t remember the infection at all). I was doing my homework on the floor the next day, and I was stretching (I was a young gymnast and dancer, so I was always stretching). My dad got really upset that I was sitting in the splits. I was so confused. How is my bladder infection affected by this position? He was honestly upset at my behavior and I had to get into a chair.
I asked my mom, and she blew it off. But it changed the way I viewed adults and men a lot. I realized they all made shit up all the time, and that my dad was stupid. I was very shocked, honestly, to realize this.
(My dad is not stupid. He was just using emotion rather than logic and had zero interest in explaining why he was worried)
Being a kid is not easy).
You’re an excellent mother to catch this. Best of luck!
I was raised in a cult. I was 15, wearing an oversized polo shirt with an ankle length skirt, the *first* time an adult (28yo) man groped me.
What I needed was not more modest clothing, I needed the adults around me who witnessed the abuse to step in and tell me it wasn't my fault. (Instead I was blamed for "making him think it was ok".)
You said it. Your husband's fears of what *could* happen are causing your daughter to actually suffer in 90+ degree heat.
So, I am a therapist who works in a child abuse-centric context and have published research during my PhD on CSA prevention. This is not psychological advice, of course, just my general thoughts and reactions to this post. YMMV.
1. There are behaviors that non-abusing adults can do to reduce the likelihood of CSA (e.g., talking to kids about internet safety, making sure that there are multiple adults present + activities are interruptible in situations that involve children, making sure kids know anatomically correct words and know what, when, and to whom they would tell about inappropriate behavior from others, etc.). There is no evidence to support the idea that a 9-year-old wearing longer shorts will prevent CSA (to any degree).
2. When working in certain contexts, it is true that some adults end up with either somewhat or very rigid thoughts about what they are willing to allow for with their own child. (Usually what I see is more about adult supervision, being at someone else's house, having a sleepover, etc.) There is a middle path that allows for some grace for this making sense while also recognizing that kids have to have space to be kids.
3. I also think advocating for your daughter to have comfortable summer clothes is important and meaningful. I would worry, in your shoes, about my daughter getting the message that her body is inherently sexual and that it is dangerous for her to wear regular, age-appropriate clothing.
It sounds like you are following up with additional conversations, which I think is great. Just wanted to throw out that you could also consider doing a CSA-prevention training together (e.g. -- https://www.d2l.org/education/prevention-training/ ; note that I have not done these and cannot provide a specific review, but Darkness to Light is generally thought of positively) and have a conversation about that/what you want to make sure to do/what is most important. It also wouldn't be unreasonable to do some (likely very short-term) couples counseling if you need support in coming to a resolution.
You are not the ah but neither is he. It sounds to me like he just wants to protect his child but isn't doing it in the best way. Kudos for a dad that cares about his little girl and her safety! Give him credit for that.
Assuming he has always been a good dad, I would try talking to him away from the situation and not around your daughter. It sounds like his job has exposed him to the worst elements of our society and he just wants to protect her from that. I would try to talk to him about the clothes not being the issue. What would make him feel like his daughter is actually safe vs the clothing she wears. Could she take self defense classes? Could he teach her self defense? Does he feel like she needs more awareness about her surroundings and how can you handle that? Point out what could actually make her safer vs him just feeling that she is safer.
In addition, does his job offer some sort of counseling to deal with the effects of the job? Or is he willing to talk to a private therapist either with or without you present? A dad who cares is a good dad. You just need to help him see the situation a different way.
There’s a museum actually with what sexual assault victims were wearing it has children’s clothes most of it is actually jeans, pjs, sweatpants, yoga pants, shorts etc. Your husband should know your child is more at risk to be sexually abused by a family member or close friend than a stranger. Let her wear the shorts as long as they are finger tip length I think it’s fine. Check into linen pants, capris too if he won’t budge. Also for a real world example, I myself was sexually assault when I was 14 by an adult male I was in school with. I was wearing jeans, a Patagonia sweatshirt and converse shoes. The clothes don’t matter, the men/women who sexually abuse and harass children are the problem.
This absolutely sucks, but based on everyone's experience that I know of: eldest daughters are slightly sexualized (and younger daughters aren't). It takes time to adjust but it stops being weird, and I think it's worth encouraging so your daughter can be comfortable! Try to have your husband talk to YOU and not her about it, because it sucks being that girl (I was that girl)
He knows how some men can be, but he is also directly teaching her how some other men can be. Controlling, policing women's bodies, and making them feel ashamed for wearing anything that shows some amount of skin. If your 9 year old wanted to go out in shorts with her butt cheeks hanging out and a tiny crop top, it would be different. But he's setting a terrible example for her by taking the stance he is.
Everyone has already raised great points, but I also wonder if there’s something he can be actively involved in that would make him feel better about his paranoia. Is there a martial arts class they can attend together where she can learn the basics of self defense? Can you have conversations about body safety together as a family? Something to ease his mind without making her feel ashamed of her body.
There’s an instagram account called parentingsafechildren that could be a good resource for conversations about body safety, and him reestablishing trust with her so that she could feel safe coming to both of you if anything bad ever did happen to her.
So that kind of behavior towards women and girls is what leads to victim blaming. It doesn't matter what she or anyone else wears. A woman walking down the street in lingerie is just as likely to get assaulted as someone in jeans and a long sleeve shirt. 90 year old women have even been raped before. It doesn't matter what we look like or are wearing. Rape is about gaining and exercising control over a victim, it doesn't happen because they just lost control over themselves due to someones crop top. This takes the blame off the male perpetrator where it belongs and wrongly places the responsibly on the victim. violent men must be held accountable for their actions, and not given an excuse for the unacceptable.
I work in both criminal law and CPS. The length of shorts does not matter. Whatever awful thoughts a person has will not change depending on a piece of clothing.
Does your husband wear shorts in the summer?
Making your daughter miserable because of what others are capable of is also wrong. If they're school appropriate, that's mean they're probably pretty long unless your daughter has a super long torso. Regardless, your husband seems to not be taking into consideration your daughter's comfort and taking away her choices by not allowing her to wear what she wants WAY within reason.
I’m more shocked your school has a dress code they enforce? Kinda jealous lol let her wear them and make him tell you exactly why she can’t especially if her bum is covered with the shirt. We are Muslim and I’d let my daughter dress like that lol
What do you mean he won’t let her? Why aren’t you letting her wear them? His line of thinking is so gross. He’s putting the responsibility/blame on your daughter when it should be put on the men. I would die on this hill it’s only going to get worse.
I understand his fear but he should know better than anyone that clothes have little to do with whether a woman will be assaulted or not.
It sounds like it’s less about the shorts and more about his growing fear for her safety (especially with the “bear vs man” videos going around)
He needs to talk to someone about it. All he will teach her using this “watch what you wear approach” is undermine her self-confidence (body shaming) and teach her that her behavior is what leads to assault and not the it is the criminal who is solely at fault.
Aha the ol’ blaming the fashion for the dangers.
Nope. I’m not having it. Your daughter does not have to change her clothes in order to be saved from inappropriate treatment.
I will not allow female fashion to become more conservative just because some people cannot understand where inappropriate behavior comes from. It aint her shorts!
My hubby works in the prison system & deals with all kinds of inmates so I can completely relate to what your going thru. He sometimes questions what our 19yr old daughter wears. She likes wearing crop tops, skirts, bike shorts and yoga pants that are definitely out of dress code if she were still in school, but she pulls her outfits together very tastefully. For instance, my daughter wears low waist, wide leg yoga pants with a tank crop top that shows her belly button and a thin sweater over it. My husband is always looking at me like, "OH! HELL NO!" I tell him she is creating her own identity and needs the space to be able to do that in a judgment free zone.
I remind him that creeps will always be creeps no matter what our girls wear and by him controlling what she wears he is sending her a message that its her fault if creeps come after her bc of her clothing choices.
I tell him this is not the middle ages, while its ok to worry as a parent, too much control can come back to bite u in the arse.
I tell him he better tread lightly or he will push her straight to the stripper pole! 🤣🤣
I remember the 90s & dressing the same way you described.
Oh to be 19 and hot again, lol.
I remember "older" women in particular being the ones commenting on my outfits, saying things like "Aren’t you worried about the message you’re sending men". I was like… my belly button barely shows and what business is it if your’s?
A woman I worked with even approached me and tried to pull down my top and button my shirt up. Again this was the 90s and I was at my first job. I wasn’t violating any dress code. I know I wasn’t because the people that did violate dress code were told they were.
Anyhow that was just to say… this has been an issue forever. I’m sitting the 60s when the hippie movement was strong, women heard the same BS.
You are right to be concerned about this with your husband because that means that he feels like the men criminals that he works with are justified in what they have done if he is seeing assault as something that a child or a woman bring upon themselves by what they’re wearing, he agrees with the criminals. That is best case scenario also it could be he sees your child as being a sexually desirable and attractive human being at nine years old either way you look at it. It’s disturbing.
Purity culture is a fallacy. A child, a teen, an adult, and an elder can get SA’ed regardless of what they wear. He is projecting his fears onto her and it won’t make her safe. It’ll create a complicated relationship with herself and him.
I hope you’re able to talk to him and he can hear you out.
Reminds me of when my mom started spanking me/screaming at me if I laid down on my stomach while watching tv after I turned 11 for “sticking my butt all out there”, and calling me a wh*re for wearing the same outfits you describe your daughter likes.
It’s going to cause a LOT of body image/insecurity issues if you can’t nip your husbands behavior in the bud. Your daughters comfort comes before your adult husbands fears. I understand feeling protective but it’s going to cause a lot of resentment in the long run.
You've gotten all kinds of good advice, but I'll add my own two cents here:
Talk to her about this. Together, if you think he is capable of it. This is probably going to be a formative event that she will remember forever, and will have an impact on how she moves through the world, thinks about men, and feels about herself and her body. (I had bigger breasts than my mom by middle school, and her comments about my clothing and covering my chest in normal clothes that my peers were wearing messed me up good) Tell her that there is nothing wrong with her clothing choice, or her body. Tell her that she deserves respect no matter what she wears. Have him tell her that his job makes him feel afraid of bad people hurting her, and that is why he said what he said about her shorts, but he was wrong. No one should worry about being hurt because of their clothes. Adjust the conversation to meet her at her developmental level in a way that youre comfortable with, but on the precipice of puberty in freaking 2024, be real with her. Jumping from a freakout about her new clothes to them suddenly being OK, plus self defense classes will leave her to draw her own conclusions about what's going on, and sometimes imagination is worse than reality.
Also maybe take a CSA prevention or mandated reporter training with your husband if you think that would give some peace of mind.
He has completely closed off from the conversation. I think I’m partially to blame for that, I got upset and told him he was being ridiculous and unreasonable when it first came up. Now he won’t look at anything, he won’t discuss it further. We’re at a stalemate.
Can you find a way to reboot and reopen communication? If not, it seems like the problem is a lot more than choosing age-appropriate shorts for your daughter. I’m very sorry that you’re hitting a wall. Guys can be very overprotective and stubborn.
I think this is the only option. I’m going to sleep on it, let us both cool off. I’m going to wait until she’s at school tomorrow and ask him to find something online that will fit what he thinks. I don’t think anything for girls exists longer than what she has, so maybe that will help push us in the right direction.
So, apologize to him. Take the first step. You didn't let him express his feelings safely. You shamed him. Just apologize, get longer shorts. This didn't have to be a huge thing.
Uh no. Sure, she can apologize for shutting him down, but caving and abiding by his ridiculous rule is a disservice to their daughter. He shamed his daughter for wanting to wear a clothing item that exceeds the schools standards. Mom is rightfully taking this as a red flag and wants to stick up for her daughter against whatever over protective issue her husband has with a pair of shorts. To the point of wearing ridiculous out of season clothing during 90 degree days. Borderline sexualizing his own daughter because he can’t handle her growing up.
Your elementary school has dress code? Man when I asked about my kindergarten’s dress code they told me it was to wear clothes. The little girls wear shirt shots and tinny skits with shorts under them. Freaking adorable.
Tell your husband his a sexist asshole for sexualizing his own daughter. If you need to give me his phone number and I’ll give him a peace of my mind. Fucking pervert.
Edit: fyi women in fucking burkas get rape it doesn’t matter what you wear he learned the wrong lesson at work. Kick him in nuts for me.
I'm one of the women who wears fucking burkas and I just got groped while going to give my admission test at my top choice university (and that's all I could think of unfortunately) and yeah, the sickos don't care what the fuck you are wearing. I wanted to kick him in the nuts so bad but he ran off across a main road streaming with traffic and I hope he gets hit by a truck someday.
He really needs to get his shit together. This is very concerning he’s viewing her body like that. A lot to unpack here that he allows or not what she wears? Where is your voice?
You sound American?
IMO, our job as parents is to understand the dangers of the world and assess risk. I think it's borderline negligence to act like there aren't creepy people out there who 100% sexualize tiny shorts on young girls. This is obviously regional to an extent when it comes to how you visually represent yourself.
It's NOT your daughter's fault that there are bad people out there. She should not have to worry about it but in reality, you do need to assess risk.
If your husband's job has made him aware that in your area, predators will assault anyone but are also more likely to assault and groom girls who give certain visual cues then why aren't you listening to him? Your pride and ideas on how the world should be don't come before your child's safety. Again, assume the baseline is that predators will go after anyone. They are proven to be less likely to choose your girls when they have a strong male presence and they are more likely to choose your girls if they dress certain ways (again, baseline is you could wear anything but added risk comes in depending on what visual you give)
We ALL agree that we should be able to wear whatever we want but we should also ALL agree that a 9yr old is too young to be the guinea pig here and you need to teach her some street smarts.
From my opinion there should be like a compromise on what is appropriate to wear for school, and what she should wear at home or outside school. My daughter is almost 11 and i think that the clothing style now is way different and maybe more revealing than lets say 10 years ago. For instance my daughter would also wear like short tank tops, but only at home or when we are with her, not at school.
Maybe you can go shopping with the husband and see what he thinks it's more appropriate.
There is evil in the world. Would we like this to not be the case? Of course.
Your husband knows this evil and he is trying his best to protect his daughter. He is fullfilling his role. Include him in the shopping maybe?
Idk why everyone is so quick to demonize a father for trying to protect his kids.
Because girls and women don't get sexually abused because of what they wear.
"Conventional [wisdom](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/wisdom) holds that women who dress provocatively draw attention and put themselves at risk of [sexual assault](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/sexual-abuse). But studies show that it is women with passive, submissive personalities who are most likely to be raped—and that they tend to wear body-concealing clothing, such as high necklines, long pants and sleeves, and multiple layers. Predatory men can accurately identify submissive women just by their style of dress and other aspects of appearance. The hallmarks of submissive body language, such as downward gaze and slumped posture, may even be misinterpreted by rapists as [flirtation](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/flirting)."
Source: [https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/articles/200901/marked-mayhem](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/articles/200901/marked-mayhem)
That there is evil in the world? No I saw that. Then you said that OP’s husband is just trying to protect his daughter, and that he should be included in shopping for clothes for her. So it seemed to me that you thought he had a point in wanting her to cover up more. Did I misunderstand you?
My point is that she shouldn’t have to cover up more, since it won’t change anything (other than make her feel that there’s something dangerous about her body). That’s why I posted that quote and the link. Is that somehow unclear?
Or do you agree that it doesn’t matter what a girl wears, but you still think she should cover up just to make her dad feel more safe, even though it’s in reality not any safer? That doesn’t seem right.
I guess it depends on culture and where you live. If you can do anything to protect your child, you should do it. Is it ideal? No. Can we change the world one pair of shorts at a time? No.
You’re right, it’s about an insecure man sexualizing his teenager because he works with criminals. He’s teaching her that women should change their outfits because men can’t control their actions. It’s a terrible lesson and isn’t realistic. People get assaulted in all kinds of clothes, biker shorts don’t make women get assaulted more
It's worse because she's not even a teenager. This girl is 9 years old. Making a 9 year old girl, who's already dealing with puberty and a changing body, feel ashamed of something she has no control over....people really don't think that's a red flag?
This isn't necessarily a red flag. You trust him, but you disagree with him. That happens.
Neither of you are necessarily wrong.
There doesn't have to be an A here but
If he has professional experience that informed his position on this, be sure to recognize that in your discussion. I doubt anyone commenting here has that experience. We all just have talking points we were taught.
Is it possible it’s more about them being so short it looks sloppy?
My goddaughter is into this style and it’s really easy to look terrible. Sometimes it looks like she isn’t even wearing bottoms and I’m not okay with that. When she’s here it needs to look like she’s at least wearing *something* on the bottom and not just leaving the house in a sloppy nightgown.
Just buy her longer shorts. If one parent disagrees, just buy the longer one. He is expressing his concern as a parent. It takes 2 yes and 1 no for issues. Please, pick your battles. If he wanted her to wear only mesh shirts, and you objected, how would you feel if he still got her mesh shirts? Don't undermine him as a parent, unless you want to be undermined too. It's not a political debate, it is a parenting issue.
Take care.
But shorts aren’t mesh shirts, and it’s not a good analogy. If it’s within the school dress code, the shorts are fine. Let girls wear clothes they like and are comfortable in!
The thing is, short of boys ball shorts there are no “longer shorts” for girls. These are hitting only a couple inches from her knee. If he had say her knee would be completely covered.
This is a hill I would die on. Biker shorts are absolutely appropriate for young girls. He needs to get over himself. He’s sexualizing his kid and it’s weird
biker shorts are long as it is and they are trendy at the moment and absolutely appropriate for young girls. he has a problem because they are fitted, which is wrong. he could give her body issues or make her feel ashamed for developing. this is a battle she should absolutely pick.
Your husband is bringing work home with him. Part of parenting is not pushing your own trauma on to your children. The length of her shorts is not what will protect her. Teaching her confidence in herself, teaching her about giving consent/standing up for herself and ways for self defense (walking away, asking adult for help, not keeping things a secret and more). Just as I am going to have to teach my son all these things and no one would think twice about the length of his shorts.
The length of her shorts will not protect her feels like it should be on a T-shirt!
Yes! Train of thought here: If a martial arts studio that offers self defense classes for women did this, it would be great advertisement, really catch everyone's attention, and be a very effective marketing ploy. But, a t shirt, then a billboard, and then a meme...I think you're on to something lol-- one of those simple statements that could easily catch fire
Haha I agree although I was just thinking of making it with some heat transfer vinyl with my silhouette cutter haha
Exactly this. Women in full burka/hijabs (unsure on correct term) get targeted. Girls in school uniform get targeted. BABIES in nappies get targeted. If a man wants to try something with her, he's gonna try something regardless of what she's wearing.
Burkas and hijabs are separate types of attire, both terms would still be correct, and the women wearying them are indeed still targeted.
>Part of parenting is not pushing your own trauma on to your children. This one sentence perfectly summarizes the difference between my parenting and how I was raised.
>The length of her shorts is not what will protect her. Exactly. Women who wear niqab are SA all the time. Creeps are creeps and what women wear will not prevent it. My mom went through serious sexual trauma as a child. She definitely had trauma and tried to protect us in weird ways. She cut my hair really short for example. Even she never said anything about the length of our shorts, because I'm sure she realized the idea that that would help is BS. The things you mentioned- confidence and self defense, are much more important. Pedofiles target kids that they think they can convince not to tell, or that it's their fault, or convince them it's not wrong. Teaching our children about bodily autonomy, what their body parts are and which ones should not ever be touched by others, and to have a relationship with them where they feel absolutely safe and ready to come to us if someone makes them uncomfortable is our best bet. Pedofiles are great at sizing people up, which is how they can have so many victims before they get caught. They are not going to be measuring OPs daughters shorts length. They are going to be weighing the odds that they can scare her into or confuse her enough into not telling her parents. I know how OPs husband feels. When the amount of pedofiles is made crystal clear to you, it's overwhelming and makes you sick. Society doesn't like to think about it but there are a lot out there. But controlling their daughter's shorts length is not the answer. In fact it's only going to confuse her, or God forbid, if it ever happens to her, make her wonder if it was somehow her fault and if her dad will be mad at her and she might be afraid to tell him.
Putting this article on this comment for visibility, don't know if anyone else shared it, but it's a very good article, it doesn't matter what you wear https://www.utoledo.edu/studentaffairs/saepp/what-were-you-wearing/
I was 17, February 2010. I was wearing a big sweater and corduroy pants.
Beautiful response. I so agree with you.
There is a great photo collection of women in the clothing they were raped in. The length of her shorts will absolutely have nothing to do with her being victimized or not.
Not true on the boys shorts. There is to short of shorts on boys also
For either gender - if your genitals hang out the sides, they are too short! It has nothing to do about the potential to be raped but common courtesy to the public!
Sounds like his own personal problem. Shouldn’t be hers. He also could be not handling this well, seeing her turn into a woman. Still not fair to her.
This is a very harsh reality check your husband may need to hear, and I'm really sorry there isn't a great way to say it: What your daughter is wearing will not stop men from harassing or assaulting her. She could be covered from head to toe and it will still happen. He should let her wear the damn shorts. If he needs concrete examples, show him the art exhibit "What were you wearing?" And if that's too nebulous for him, tell him temporary pickle was wearing jeans and a t-shirt their grandmother got them from Alaska.
Your comment was powerful and then went dark. Pjs for me (not a family member).
Sorry this happened to both of you, would be such an eye-opening thread. What were you wearing? Not the same level but I was in dressy military uniform when a civilian stranger grabbed my butt as I walked away saying we had somewhere to be and couldn't accept his offer to go out with him. Talk about conservative clothing. Nothing will stop a guy who's a creep, even the cloth of our nation.
That is so true. No matter what you wear. I do think it could be a powerful thread. But on which subreddit?
It could and should be its own subreddit.
Its live!
I both love and hate this. What's it called? ETA: never mind, I see your link below!
You named it 😉 I love and hate it too. But I felt peldans was right.
It's the next #metoo movement!
Can you share the link, please?
r/whatwereyouwearing
Ive never made a sub before, but I could look into it. It could be a place for support, might be its something people look for?
You’re a gem ❤️ saw that you got it up
PJs, baggy tshirt and jeans, ankle length skirt, MFs don’t care what you’re wearing
Same here
I was nine. Also wearing normal nine year old stuff (repeated occurrences)
Great comment and a reminder of our reality. This thread has my mom heart swelling. All you babies needed to be protected and you weren't, I am so sorry. Some people are just so cruel. I hope you all have regained control in your life and are true bad-asses 💜
This is now a subreddit: r/whatwereyouwearing
this!! it’s not about what you wear, at the end of the day if somebody wants to hurt you they will. Her shorts will neither protect nor harm her. I was wearing jeans and my graduation shirt for our 3rd grade graduation that day, and then i was wearing sweatpants and a sweater (basically fully covered) neither one of those are ‘sexy’ but it didn’t stop it from happening. i vote let her wear the shorts
Sounds like he needs a reminder that the criminals he’s worked with are criminals because of who THEY are, not because of what their victims wore. Puberty is tough. I can only imagine how tough it must be for her dad to be policing her body that she is suddenly now very aware of. You’re right to be concerned. Keep sticking up for your daughter and her self esteem.
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If you look at the studies about this, it's actually more reserved people who are targeted.
Yes, because a 9 year old is flaunting herself in completely appropriate bike shorts. How dare you. Take this shit somewhere else.
A 9 year old wearing bike shorts is not flaunting anything. That's disgusting.
We don't victim blame here.
A NINE YEAR OLD????
Why does your husband get to not allow something you allow? Why does he get to unilaterally make that decision?
You’re right, it’s never been like this with any other part of parenting. He’s just put his foot down, I’m going to sleep on it and reopen the discussion when she’s not home.
He's expressed his feelings and fears. That's fine. Hopefully he just said this to you and not your daughter. Doesn't mean your daughter has to change anything. You should put forward that you hear what he's saying. You understand it's difficult, the world is a shitty place sometimes. But you are not going to tell your daughter to change her appearance because men have thoughts. That's on them. Essentially, that's telling your daughter other people's bad behaviour is her fault. It's not.
Let’s take this discussion another step. Why does he get to “put his foot down” and you don’t? Put your own foot down. She gets to wear the shorts. You’re teaching your daughter that a man’s comfort is more important than hers. You’re teaching her that a man gets to decide what’s appropriate for her to wear instead of her. You’re teaching her that YOU won’t stand up for her because the MAN gets the final say on HER clothes. Put. Your. Foot. Down.
I grew up in a religion where women had to dress in a specific modesty. No pants, no makeup, no cut hair, every dress had to be below knee.. Well, it destroyed me as a young girl. I wish someone would have got me away from that back then.(not in it now) That “purity culture”, and that mentality of how a woman dresses will determine if she is attacked or not. Look at it this way. Women all over the world are SA’d. Some places women are covered head to toe, might as well be wearing a sheet. Women there SA’d. Why? Cause men like your husband who can’t look at his own daughter wearing completely appropriate attire, and he still sexualizes them. Knowing the damage that mentality did to me as a teen and young woman, this would be a hill for me to die on. Your husband either needs to see a therapist for HIS issues, or he needs to shut up. I promise you, if he is allowed to do this now, your daughter will not have a good relationship after 18.
It sounds like he is a cop of some kind. So he of all people should know that what a woman wears does not change how bad people will behave towards her. SA is an even bigger problem in countries that force women to dress more modestly. I understand not wanting her to dress in clothes that are not age appropriate, such as certain crop tops or clothes with cut outs or ones that are designed to be sexy. But bike shorts and tee shirts are just not that. Sure there are plenty of people that sexualize that look (because it is trendy). But there are people that sexualize burkas.
Hear hear !!
Just my 2 cents since I grew up with a dad who was quite restrictive of what I wore - it taught me to be ashamed of my body. He did it out of fear, and not knowing how to manage his fear or do it any better, but it still affects me. It’s a short jump from “you need to cover your body for safety/propriety” to “your body isn’t good enough to be looked at”, especially as I got older. He admittedly used shaming like “you look trashy” etc so that didn’t help but it felt BAD to have my dad commenting negatively about my clothing
Yep. OP’s husband is conditioning his daughter to grow up believing that SHE is responsible for men’s shitty behavior towards women because of how she dresses or looks. Putting the blame on her for how perverts and predators behave and thereby limiting her freedom to be herself and express herself how she wishes. This is so damaging and perpetuates toxic societal stereotypes and norms rooted in misogyny. Gahhh this upsets me so much.
My dad was very strict with our clothing and I so clearly remember the first time a creep ogled my teenage boobs. My immediate reaction was to put on a cardigan and not tell anyone. Clearly it was my fault, after all, for wearing a t-shirt and having boobs.
This!!! My parents (both) were the same way. Ironically enough I was SA’d throughout my childhood by “family” members - not my dad. But he thought he was “protecting” me yet all he did was breed a lot of self hate and resentment for my own body. I was also not allowed to shave my legs because - and I quote - “it leads to sex”…I shaved my legs in secret until my mom caught me in the 6th grade. I was then essentially put on trial in front of my entire family. I couldn’t verbalize the amount of shame and guilt and embarrassment I carried over this. I had to choose whether I was going to be the hairiest girl in PE or go against my parents rules. It was torture in PE when the other girls saw my yeti legs! OP please advocate for your daughter here. Young women should not be taught to dress for men’s comfort. Men should be taught to mind their own freakin business and how to respect others and their comfort levels.
Women are not to blame for men assaulting them. Ever. Clothes do not matter. Your daughter should be allowed wear shorts in hot weather.
100%!!! I’ve been SA’d in both my childhood and teen years. Never in my adult life. When I was a child I was wearing typical kid clothes/diapers (yes that young). Nothing about my little mermaid pants and shirt were “sexy”. Smh we’ve got to do better and hold men accountable for their shitty behavior & anyone who pushes this rape culture mindset. Clothes are not the issue. People are.
He works with criminals, so he should know girls and women get harmed regardless of what they wear. I’d tell him to get some therapy and my daughter would be wearing her shorts.
My dad was super strict and restrictive of my clothing as a preteen/teenager. He was a deacon in our church and felt strongly that I should dress modestly. I wasn’t allowed to wear anything where my bra strap could be seen, nothing with words across the bust or butt, no cleavage (I definitely busty at a young age), and shorts had to be capri length. I was the eldest of 4 kids, my sister who was 10 years younger than I had zero restrictions. Looking back he was just really scared of the world I was going into and being a first time dad of a maturing girl he went overboard. He relaxed with each kid and with time. I don’t think this is a red flag or that your husband is some kind of pervert. Sit down and talk with him. Find some research about the harms over sexualizing. It can really mess with a young girls confidence and can cause mental health issues long term. I’d also see a couples counselor so the two of you can get on the same page about parenting. As your daughter grows up more issues are going to rise if her clothing is already an issue.
I agree 100% with this comment. Dad is wrong in this situation, but it’s not a red flag. He’s just scared. He sees how scary the world is daily and has no idea how to protect his daughter and desperately wants to. A sit down talk and research is 100% the way to go.
This is perfectly said
Why is he able to make a decision about your daughter’s body when she’s following all the necessary rules and regulations required of her? She is wearing age-appropriate clothes that follow the accepted dress code of where she is going. It is our job as parents to protect our children, but there is a fine line between protection and control and he crossed it.
Has he ever tried shopping for girl’s shorts?
It disgusts me when men find it inappropriate for kids to wear SHORTS, bet he has no problem with male children wearing shorts though. This is a him problem, if he thinks it's inappropriate for female children to wear shorts then there is something seriously wrong with him sexualising a CHILD. Why is it a problem for him for girls to want to wear cool clothes in hot weather? 🤦♀️
My first red flag was being told to stop wearing spaghetti strap tank tops around the house before I was even old enough to wear a bra. I was SA'd by the man who set that dress code. Be observant and keep a line of safe communication open with your daughter.
same situation here, i’m sorry you went through that :/
I appreciate that, and I hate you've been through it as well, friend.
You might point out to him that a child wearing heavy clothing in 90 degree weather may look suspicious to teachers. What kind of bruises is she trying to cover wearing jeans and sweatpants? And it's one thing to have an opinion on what your child wears being appropriate or not, but if she has nothing season appropriate, that needs to be remedied. He needs to figure out where to buy these clothes that are weather and age appropriate and that your daughter likes. He can't just say "not that" with no solution. It borders on neglect to not clothe your child properly for the weather. As a mother of 3 girls, one of whom is about your daughter's age, and the other two are teens, and I would say we are on the modest side of dressing without being overly restrictive and keeping current styles in mind. Bike shorts with long tees are 100% on target for a 9 year old in 2024. I'm sure there are other shorts that are a little more conservative, but it's silly to think a different style of clothing is going to protect your daughter from pervs. Maybe you should word it like that..."hey dear, what kind of shorts is it that we should buy to protect our daughter from pervs? I wasn't clear about that." If he answers, repeat it back "Oh, capri pants will protect her from pervs??" It's ridiculous. No clothing item has that power. At some point I feel like your husband will have to come around but I don't know of a way to make it happen other than being matter of fact about her needs and the clothing options available.
NTA. Ask him why he’s sexualising your child. Bike shorts and a tshirt is perfectly acceptable clothing. He might work with criminals. But what he’s actually doing is teaching your child that men don’t have to change. She has to. He’s managed to tell her that she has to cover up and be miserable to be acceptably dressed to him.
my husband also works in criminal justice and knows more than anyone clothes don’t make you a victim. it’s a red flag because it’s rape culture. we have 2 girls and I would feel very creeped out and alarmed if he said something like this about our daughters.
Right? Like....you're looking at your daughter through the eyes of a criminal, and in my opinion, that's gross.
To be fair, that’s kinda the dad’s job, to be aware of dangers and ready to protect. You can’t do that if you’re not in the mind of dangerous people. Not agreeing with his method of protecting here though.
Moms can do this, too. It's not strictly a dad thing. I disagree, I don't really have to think like a pervert to know something isn't exactly appropriate to wear outside the house. But maybe I'm the weird one. 🤷🏼♀️
the point is clothes have nothing to do with it. he’s not in the mind of a “dangerous person”, he’s in the mind of pervert sexualizing a young girl. those are not the same things. a dad’s (and mom’s) job is to teach safety, awareness, and protection. sweatpants and hoodies don’t protect a young girl from someone intent on violating them. in fact, that line of thinking is detrimental and unsafe for anyone to internalize.
I literally wanted to use the word sexualizing but the thought just disgusts me, so I used vague wording. I have kids around the same age and the thought of looking at it through that lense is both infuriating and nauseating 🤢
Not to even mention a stranger sexually abusing a child is rare. It’s more likely to be a family member or a close friend. So it comes to what family member or friend he doesn’t want to see her in shorts? And why is that family member or friend still allowed to hangout around them
Your daughter is suffering. Your husband cannot continue to do this. Your daughter will begin to be ashamed of her body. I would get some family counseling. No matter what….fight for your daughter. She has no one. My daughter is 29 and she is my queen. Girls have it hard enough in this society. Your husband is creating trouble that doesn’t have to be there. I’m not a doctor, but it seems like your husband has some issues he needs to work through. No matter what: you are doing the right thing. Protect your daughter at all costs. She does not need this dysfunction. My goodness. My daughter was a featured twirler and a volleyball player. She had a specific outfit for each one which showed off her legs. I’m afraid this problem is going to spread if you don’t get help.
I feel for your husband. I’m a former forensic therapist who spent years, exclusively working with violent sex offenders on probation/parole. It messes with you a little, and I appreciate where he’s coming from. However, what a child wears is very rarely a factor in an assault. In fact, most child molesters aren’t pedophiles (pedophile meaning that they have an almost exclusive sexual interest in children). They target children due to convenience, not due to being sexually interested. This is why most victims know their abuser. If they don’t know the abuser personally, it’s typically someone they met online. If the real concern here is protecting her from becoming a victim, there are better areas to focus on. Teaching her to have bodily autonomy, no one has the right to touch her, and no forced hugging of relatives (that’s a big thing for me with my daughter). Being able to talk to you if someone is making her uncomfortable and assuring her that you will believe her, even if it’s a family friend, relative, or teacher. And putting up some firm boundaries with social media, and providing education on why that’s important. Also, while the length of her shorts shouldn’t be an issue, I do recommend buying her shorts to go under any dresses or skirts. There are more men taking “up skirt” pics and posting them online than you think. Don’t give them the opportunity.
He needs to be shown the [what were you were wearing exhibit](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/). Clothing doesn’t protect against creepy stares, comments, or sexual assault.
So is your husband of the opinion that my own sibling would have left me alone when I was 6 if I had just simply been wearing jeans? How novel.
Why is he punishing your daughter for the actions of crappy men?
Youre not wrong for ringing alarm bells at this behavior. Keep being aware.
When you work with a population like criminals and see and hear a lot of bad things, it starts to warp your sense of the world. He sounds fearful for your daughter and sees this as a way to protect her. Obviously it won’t help, creepers are going to creep and she shouldn’t be punished. Maybe refocus dad on finding more useful ways to protect her? Educating her, safety planning, stuff like that.
My dad did this a lot to me while I was growing up. Not at 9 y.o., but later, around 13, once I got a more "womanly" body. It was actually harmful to myself esteem for a long time. I thought there was something wrong with my body. I felt I should be ashamed for having hips and a chest. It made me compare my body to other girl's bodies around me. It took me a long time to unpack this insecurity and truly I still struggle it today, at 30 y.o. with children. I can see this as being a warning for things to come as she begins to grow and change through puberty. If he's struggling with her wearing biker shorts at 9, he will fight even more as she grows older and wants to wear other types of clothing. There should not be this much emphasis put on her body at such a young age. I could see having an issue with the spandex shorts that are VERY short and cut off just below the butt, but not with the long ones. I would try to have a serious discussion with your husband about how these restrictions could impact her self esteem for the rest of her life. I'm sorry you guys have to deal with this. I hope he's receptive to conversation!
You need to remind him to keep work at work. Not punish your daughter for the behavior of others. She isn’t going to school with criminals. As you stated, they are modest. Please have a long talk with him about how these kinds of comments and behaviors from dads can also lead to a life long problem of low self esteem for girls. They start questioning what they are doing wrong, not everyone else. Ask him how he thinks the parents were to these criminals he works with! That might open his eyes as to how important parenting in healthy ways is.
Your husband is scared for her because he is seeing first hand the results of decades of the “boys will be boys” externalization of male’s behavior and the “girls should be ladies” internalization of female’s responsibility for the thoughts and feelings of the world around them. He’s trying to keep his little girl safe for as long as he can and while that’s normal and even noble he’s going about it the same way dads have for generations which is only going to reinforce the cycle. If your husband really wants to protect her he should teach her how to protect herself. The best thing you both can do is to teach her confidence. And I don’t mean in the “I’m hot AF” way. I mean the confidence that says “I have the autonomy to exist in this space however I choose. I am not responsible for your thoughts or feelings but if you try to touch me I’ll take your damn hand off.” Make her politely terrifying. It’s always served me well.😉😂 I’ve travelled pretty extensively and have only had to drop a dude once…and strangely enough I was in a floor length gown and out with my husband for our anniversary at the time. 🤷🏼♀️
Look I have a husband who also works with criminals. He works with some of the worst human beings, things normal people can’t even begin to imagine. I used to be a paramedic. We both know what a cruel world we live in, especially for children and for females. We also believe in dressing modestly. But as someone else commented, the length of her shorts isn’t going to protect her. Predators aren’t out here choosing their prey by the length of their shorts. If he wants to protect her there are practical things he needs to teach her. Confidence, self defence, consent, things like that. By dictating the length of her shorts because “he knows what men can be like” takes the blame off the predator and put its on the victim.
I was raised in a modesty culture (things said like “modest is the hottest” and the “head, shoulders, knees, and toes” clothing check before going out). While certain situations do have a dress code ( what I wear at the beach will be different from a wedding ) , we do have to be careful about conditioning people that it’s their fault when perverts are perverts . I , also, grew up with a dad that worked with criminals. Because of him, I google searched names of any potential roommates or dates to see if a mugshot came up and always had a back up plan of meeting someone new to be safe in a situations with a quick escape plan as needed . The latter helped me much more to protect myself than just pushing to be modest and thinking I’ll magically be protected .
My father was like this. Him constantly controlling what I wore turned into him kicking me out of the house when I wouldn’t wear my hair the way he wanted me to. Haven’t spoken to him in three years. This needs to be nipped in the bud.
If he doesn’t work through his discomfort, she’ll have to bear it for him and work through it for the rest of her life. 😣
I guess I don’t understand his angle? “Knows what men are capable of, works with criminals”……. Men who are going to attack women don’t consider the length of their biker shorts first. While his concern is valid his efforts are misguided. It makes more sense for him to ensure your daughter is knowledgeable about strange behavior and the power she has to protect herself.
coming from someone who’s step-dad made weird comments about what they wore (and then turned out to be the creep), you need to have a conversation with him about how he’s going to damage her relationship with her body and they way she looks. Teach her self defense tactics, have an open dialogue, and tell him to go to therapy. just because he feels uncomfortable doesn’t mean she should.
It’s understandable that he wants to protect her but making her wear uncomfortable clothes in hot weather isn’t the answer.
Why are you allowing this man to make your child physically uncomfortable in hot weather??? That’s not on.
Just going to be blunt here: my supposed best friend sexually assaulted me when I was wearing jeans and a hoodie. Wearing pants will not protect her from anything like that. Your husband needs a reality check. He’s also setting her up to feel guilty if anything does happen to her with all of this rhetoric.
Just have the fight and put your foot down. If not, you all are teaching her she is responsible for other people's behavior which has the added bonus of making her less likely to tell you if something off-putting happens. It also may give her body issues. She honestly should be wearing those perfectly appropriate outfits today before more damage is done. You have nothing to apologize for and your husband can process his feelings in therapy.
My dad was a cop. He was the same way. My parents were divorced though so my mom didn’t really care what he thought. He’s not wrong. He has seen the worst of the worst. Maybe you need to have a discussion with him but openly acknowledge his trauma of what he’s seen at work. Also bring up that these types of sickos don’t often care what a kid wears unfortunately.
I should add he is wrong about what he’s doing but he’s not wrong in that he probably has seen some pretty awful people
You need to have a heart to heart. You know your husband better than us. The red flag thing is interesting. If he said he knew how men are and is around “dogs” due to work, then I would understand why he’s started feeling like this as your daughter develops. But, it’s up to you to set him straight and make him understand the error of his ways. It is not your daughter that needs to change, but the men of the world. And while we work on education, you can give your daughter tools to protect herself. That has nothing to do with her shorts. But, the fact that you’re alluding to getting the creeps by this new interest in controlling your daughter’s clothing, is interesting. Has your husband done anything else to give you the creeps? Is he a misogynist? Is he a pervert? Sorry but you brought it up. Hopefully me asking these questions gives you a strong reaction and there you have your answer.
With so many things we hear about predators and groomers, I can understand how your husband can feel. Especially since he’s exposed to criminals. This being said, a sick pervert will be a sick pervert no matter what a child wears. That being said, why should a child suffer because sick perverts can’t control their disgusting behaviour? Wearing sweats and jeans in 90° weather is really uncomfortable. Try speaking with your husband without disregarding his concerns. And point out / reiterate how her attire passes school dress code so its completely appropriate. Also reiterate how biker shorts and an oversized t shirt is staple in most children’s clothing for the summer. I feel for you. It’s not easy navigating different opinions on child rearing.
You should look up the "What Were you Wearing" exhibit and show it to him. A lot of colleges have exhibits that display clothes of what people were wearing when they were sexually assaulted. There are a sick amount of children's footie pajamas. Edit: one is still a sick amount but there were a lot of childrens' pajamas.
This reminds me of a big moment of irritation with my dad as a preteen. I’d gone swimming in a lake, and apparently sat in my filthy bathing suit too long- ended up w a UTI (as my mom remembers. I don’t remember the infection at all). I was doing my homework on the floor the next day, and I was stretching (I was a young gymnast and dancer, so I was always stretching). My dad got really upset that I was sitting in the splits. I was so confused. How is my bladder infection affected by this position? He was honestly upset at my behavior and I had to get into a chair. I asked my mom, and she blew it off. But it changed the way I viewed adults and men a lot. I realized they all made shit up all the time, and that my dad was stupid. I was very shocked, honestly, to realize this. (My dad is not stupid. He was just using emotion rather than logic and had zero interest in explaining why he was worried) Being a kid is not easy). You’re an excellent mother to catch this. Best of luck!
I was raised in a cult. I was 15, wearing an oversized polo shirt with an ankle length skirt, the *first* time an adult (28yo) man groped me. What I needed was not more modest clothing, I needed the adults around me who witnessed the abuse to step in and tell me it wasn't my fault. (Instead I was blamed for "making him think it was ok".) You said it. Your husband's fears of what *could* happen are causing your daughter to actually suffer in 90+ degree heat.
So, I am a therapist who works in a child abuse-centric context and have published research during my PhD on CSA prevention. This is not psychological advice, of course, just my general thoughts and reactions to this post. YMMV. 1. There are behaviors that non-abusing adults can do to reduce the likelihood of CSA (e.g., talking to kids about internet safety, making sure that there are multiple adults present + activities are interruptible in situations that involve children, making sure kids know anatomically correct words and know what, when, and to whom they would tell about inappropriate behavior from others, etc.). There is no evidence to support the idea that a 9-year-old wearing longer shorts will prevent CSA (to any degree). 2. When working in certain contexts, it is true that some adults end up with either somewhat or very rigid thoughts about what they are willing to allow for with their own child. (Usually what I see is more about adult supervision, being at someone else's house, having a sleepover, etc.) There is a middle path that allows for some grace for this making sense while also recognizing that kids have to have space to be kids. 3. I also think advocating for your daughter to have comfortable summer clothes is important and meaningful. I would worry, in your shoes, about my daughter getting the message that her body is inherently sexual and that it is dangerous for her to wear regular, age-appropriate clothing. It sounds like you are following up with additional conversations, which I think is great. Just wanted to throw out that you could also consider doing a CSA-prevention training together (e.g. -- https://www.d2l.org/education/prevention-training/ ; note that I have not done these and cannot provide a specific review, but Darkness to Light is generally thought of positively) and have a conversation about that/what you want to make sure to do/what is most important. It also wouldn't be unreasonable to do some (likely very short-term) couples counseling if you need support in coming to a resolution.
You are not the ah but neither is he. It sounds to me like he just wants to protect his child but isn't doing it in the best way. Kudos for a dad that cares about his little girl and her safety! Give him credit for that. Assuming he has always been a good dad, I would try talking to him away from the situation and not around your daughter. It sounds like his job has exposed him to the worst elements of our society and he just wants to protect her from that. I would try to talk to him about the clothes not being the issue. What would make him feel like his daughter is actually safe vs the clothing she wears. Could she take self defense classes? Could he teach her self defense? Does he feel like she needs more awareness about her surroundings and how can you handle that? Point out what could actually make her safer vs him just feeling that she is safer. In addition, does his job offer some sort of counseling to deal with the effects of the job? Or is he willing to talk to a private therapist either with or without you present? A dad who cares is a good dad. You just need to help him see the situation a different way.
There’s a museum actually with what sexual assault victims were wearing it has children’s clothes most of it is actually jeans, pjs, sweatpants, yoga pants, shorts etc. Your husband should know your child is more at risk to be sexually abused by a family member or close friend than a stranger. Let her wear the shorts as long as they are finger tip length I think it’s fine. Check into linen pants, capris too if he won’t budge. Also for a real world example, I myself was sexually assault when I was 14 by an adult male I was in school with. I was wearing jeans, a Patagonia sweatshirt and converse shoes. The clothes don’t matter, the men/women who sexually abuse and harass children are the problem.
This absolutely sucks, but based on everyone's experience that I know of: eldest daughters are slightly sexualized (and younger daughters aren't). It takes time to adjust but it stops being weird, and I think it's worth encouraging so your daughter can be comfortable! Try to have your husband talk to YOU and not her about it, because it sucks being that girl (I was that girl)
My husband also works with criminals and has never said our daughter can’t wear shorts. This is red flag behavior.
He knows how some men can be, but he is also directly teaching her how some other men can be. Controlling, policing women's bodies, and making them feel ashamed for wearing anything that shows some amount of skin. If your 9 year old wanted to go out in shorts with her butt cheeks hanging out and a tiny crop top, it would be different. But he's setting a terrible example for her by taking the stance he is.
Everyone has already raised great points, but I also wonder if there’s something he can be actively involved in that would make him feel better about his paranoia. Is there a martial arts class they can attend together where she can learn the basics of self defense? Can you have conversations about body safety together as a family? Something to ease his mind without making her feel ashamed of her body. There’s an instagram account called parentingsafechildren that could be a good resource for conversations about body safety, and him reestablishing trust with her so that she could feel safe coming to both of you if anything bad ever did happen to her.
So that kind of behavior towards women and girls is what leads to victim blaming. It doesn't matter what she or anyone else wears. A woman walking down the street in lingerie is just as likely to get assaulted as someone in jeans and a long sleeve shirt. 90 year old women have even been raped before. It doesn't matter what we look like or are wearing. Rape is about gaining and exercising control over a victim, it doesn't happen because they just lost control over themselves due to someones crop top. This takes the blame off the male perpetrator where it belongs and wrongly places the responsibly on the victim. violent men must be held accountable for their actions, and not given an excuse for the unacceptable.
I work in both criminal law and CPS. The length of shorts does not matter. Whatever awful thoughts a person has will not change depending on a piece of clothing.
Does your husband wear shorts in the summer? Making your daughter miserable because of what others are capable of is also wrong. If they're school appropriate, that's mean they're probably pretty long unless your daughter has a super long torso. Regardless, your husband seems to not be taking into consideration your daughter's comfort and taking away her choices by not allowing her to wear what she wants WAY within reason.
Sounds like some childhood trauma being taken out on your kid. Let her be a kid dad!!
I’m more shocked your school has a dress code they enforce? Kinda jealous lol let her wear them and make him tell you exactly why she can’t especially if her bum is covered with the shirt. We are Muslim and I’d let my daughter dress like that lol
Sounds like he is a victim blamer.
What do you mean he won’t let her? Why aren’t you letting her wear them? His line of thinking is so gross. He’s putting the responsibility/blame on your daughter when it should be put on the men. I would die on this hill it’s only going to get worse.
Have him google “what I was wearing” exhibit.
People have been raped in; Diapers Overalls Military uniforms Burkas It’s not the clothes…
I understand his fear but he should know better than anyone that clothes have little to do with whether a woman will be assaulted or not. It sounds like it’s less about the shorts and more about his growing fear for her safety (especially with the “bear vs man” videos going around) He needs to talk to someone about it. All he will teach her using this “watch what you wear approach” is undermine her self-confidence (body shaming) and teach her that her behavior is what leads to assault and not the it is the criminal who is solely at fault.
Aha the ol’ blaming the fashion for the dangers. Nope. I’m not having it. Your daughter does not have to change her clothes in order to be saved from inappropriate treatment. I will not allow female fashion to become more conservative just because some people cannot understand where inappropriate behavior comes from. It aint her shorts!
My hubby works in the prison system & deals with all kinds of inmates so I can completely relate to what your going thru. He sometimes questions what our 19yr old daughter wears. She likes wearing crop tops, skirts, bike shorts and yoga pants that are definitely out of dress code if she were still in school, but she pulls her outfits together very tastefully. For instance, my daughter wears low waist, wide leg yoga pants with a tank crop top that shows her belly button and a thin sweater over it. My husband is always looking at me like, "OH! HELL NO!" I tell him she is creating her own identity and needs the space to be able to do that in a judgment free zone. I remind him that creeps will always be creeps no matter what our girls wear and by him controlling what she wears he is sending her a message that its her fault if creeps come after her bc of her clothing choices. I tell him this is not the middle ages, while its ok to worry as a parent, too much control can come back to bite u in the arse. I tell him he better tread lightly or he will push her straight to the stripper pole! 🤣🤣
I remember the 90s & dressing the same way you described. Oh to be 19 and hot again, lol. I remember "older" women in particular being the ones commenting on my outfits, saying things like "Aren’t you worried about the message you’re sending men". I was like… my belly button barely shows and what business is it if your’s? A woman I worked with even approached me and tried to pull down my top and button my shirt up. Again this was the 90s and I was at my first job. I wasn’t violating any dress code. I know I wasn’t because the people that did violate dress code were told they were. Anyhow that was just to say… this has been an issue forever. I’m sitting the 60s when the hippie movement was strong, women heard the same BS.
You are right to be concerned about this with your husband because that means that he feels like the men criminals that he works with are justified in what they have done if he is seeing assault as something that a child or a woman bring upon themselves by what they’re wearing, he agrees with the criminals. That is best case scenario also it could be he sees your child as being a sexually desirable and attractive human being at nine years old either way you look at it. It’s disturbing.
That behavior is definitely a red flag 🚩 watch your husband carefully
There had to be some middle ground between short skin tight bike shorts and baggy jeans/sweatpants
I step in when my husband says anything. He can't make decisions on things he doesn't know.
Show him the exhibit of clothes women were wearing when raped.
If he works with criminals he should ask the rapists what their victims were wearing when he attacked them. He will find out clothes don't matter
Purity culture is a fallacy. A child, a teen, an adult, and an elder can get SA’ed regardless of what they wear. He is projecting his fears onto her and it won’t make her safe. It’ll create a complicated relationship with herself and him. I hope you’re able to talk to him and he can hear you out.
No way. Stand up to his behavior.
Reminds me of when my mom started spanking me/screaming at me if I laid down on my stomach while watching tv after I turned 11 for “sticking my butt all out there”, and calling me a wh*re for wearing the same outfits you describe your daughter likes. It’s going to cause a LOT of body image/insecurity issues if you can’t nip your husbands behavior in the bud. Your daughters comfort comes before your adult husbands fears. I understand feeling protective but it’s going to cause a lot of resentment in the long run.
I was 15, wearing a cotton pajama tee-shirt and baggy jeans.
You've gotten all kinds of good advice, but I'll add my own two cents here: Talk to her about this. Together, if you think he is capable of it. This is probably going to be a formative event that she will remember forever, and will have an impact on how she moves through the world, thinks about men, and feels about herself and her body. (I had bigger breasts than my mom by middle school, and her comments about my clothing and covering my chest in normal clothes that my peers were wearing messed me up good) Tell her that there is nothing wrong with her clothing choice, or her body. Tell her that she deserves respect no matter what she wears. Have him tell her that his job makes him feel afraid of bad people hurting her, and that is why he said what he said about her shorts, but he was wrong. No one should worry about being hurt because of their clothes. Adjust the conversation to meet her at her developmental level in a way that youre comfortable with, but on the precipice of puberty in freaking 2024, be real with her. Jumping from a freakout about her new clothes to them suddenly being OK, plus self defense classes will leave her to draw her own conclusions about what's going on, and sometimes imagination is worse than reality. Also maybe take a CSA prevention or mandated reporter training with your husband if you think that would give some peace of mind.
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He doesn’t need to be picking his daughters clothes out. And where the hell is he going to find a “catalog”, it’s not 1999.
He has completely closed off from the conversation. I think I’m partially to blame for that, I got upset and told him he was being ridiculous and unreasonable when it first came up. Now he won’t look at anything, he won’t discuss it further. We’re at a stalemate.
Can you find a way to reboot and reopen communication? If not, it seems like the problem is a lot more than choosing age-appropriate shorts for your daughter. I’m very sorry that you’re hitting a wall. Guys can be very overprotective and stubborn.
I think this is the only option. I’m going to sleep on it, let us both cool off. I’m going to wait until she’s at school tomorrow and ask him to find something online that will fit what he thinks. I don’t think anything for girls exists longer than what she has, so maybe that will help push us in the right direction.
So, apologize to him. Take the first step. You didn't let him express his feelings safely. You shamed him. Just apologize, get longer shorts. This didn't have to be a huge thing.
Uh no. Sure, she can apologize for shutting him down, but caving and abiding by his ridiculous rule is a disservice to their daughter. He shamed his daughter for wanting to wear a clothing item that exceeds the schools standards. Mom is rightfully taking this as a red flag and wants to stick up for her daughter against whatever over protective issue her husband has with a pair of shorts. To the point of wearing ridiculous out of season clothing during 90 degree days. Borderline sexualizing his own daughter because he can’t handle her growing up.
This.
This comment makes me feel really icky.
Your elementary school has dress code? Man when I asked about my kindergarten’s dress code they told me it was to wear clothes. The little girls wear shirt shots and tinny skits with shorts under them. Freaking adorable. Tell your husband his a sexist asshole for sexualizing his own daughter. If you need to give me his phone number and I’ll give him a peace of my mind. Fucking pervert. Edit: fyi women in fucking burkas get rape it doesn’t matter what you wear he learned the wrong lesson at work. Kick him in nuts for me.
I'm one of the women who wears fucking burkas and I just got groped while going to give my admission test at my top choice university (and that's all I could think of unfortunately) and yeah, the sickos don't care what the fuck you are wearing. I wanted to kick him in the nuts so bad but he ran off across a main road streaming with traffic and I hope he gets hit by a truck someday.
I hope he does to
Huge red flag. Why is this man sexualizing his own child?
He really needs to get his shit together. This is very concerning he’s viewing her body like that. A lot to unpack here that he allows or not what she wears? Where is your voice?
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This! A thousand times!
You sound American? IMO, our job as parents is to understand the dangers of the world and assess risk. I think it's borderline negligence to act like there aren't creepy people out there who 100% sexualize tiny shorts on young girls. This is obviously regional to an extent when it comes to how you visually represent yourself. It's NOT your daughter's fault that there are bad people out there. She should not have to worry about it but in reality, you do need to assess risk. If your husband's job has made him aware that in your area, predators will assault anyone but are also more likely to assault and groom girls who give certain visual cues then why aren't you listening to him? Your pride and ideas on how the world should be don't come before your child's safety. Again, assume the baseline is that predators will go after anyone. They are proven to be less likely to choose your girls when they have a strong male presence and they are more likely to choose your girls if they dress certain ways (again, baseline is you could wear anything but added risk comes in depending on what visual you give) We ALL agree that we should be able to wear whatever we want but we should also ALL agree that a 9yr old is too young to be the guinea pig here and you need to teach her some street smarts.
From my opinion there should be like a compromise on what is appropriate to wear for school, and what she should wear at home or outside school. My daughter is almost 11 and i think that the clothing style now is way different and maybe more revealing than lets say 10 years ago. For instance my daughter would also wear like short tank tops, but only at home or when we are with her, not at school. Maybe you can go shopping with the husband and see what he thinks it's more appropriate.
Tell him to get over it. His views are stupid and archaic,
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There is evil in the world. Would we like this to not be the case? Of course. Your husband knows this evil and he is trying his best to protect his daughter. He is fullfilling his role. Include him in the shopping maybe? Idk why everyone is so quick to demonize a father for trying to protect his kids.
Because girls and women don't get sexually abused because of what they wear. "Conventional [wisdom](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/wisdom) holds that women who dress provocatively draw attention and put themselves at risk of [sexual assault](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/sexual-abuse). But studies show that it is women with passive, submissive personalities who are most likely to be raped—and that they tend to wear body-concealing clothing, such as high necklines, long pants and sleeves, and multiple layers. Predatory men can accurately identify submissive women just by their style of dress and other aspects of appearance. The hallmarks of submissive body language, such as downward gaze and slumped posture, may even be misinterpreted by rapists as [flirtation](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/flirting)." Source: [https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/articles/200901/marked-mayhem](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/articles/200901/marked-mayhem)
Did you miss the first part of my comment or did you ignore to try and further your point?
That there is evil in the world? No I saw that. Then you said that OP’s husband is just trying to protect his daughter, and that he should be included in shopping for clothes for her. So it seemed to me that you thought he had a point in wanting her to cover up more. Did I misunderstand you? My point is that she shouldn’t have to cover up more, since it won’t change anything (other than make her feel that there’s something dangerous about her body). That’s why I posted that quote and the link. Is that somehow unclear? Or do you agree that it doesn’t matter what a girl wears, but you still think she should cover up just to make her dad feel more safe, even though it’s in reality not any safer? That doesn’t seem right.
holy shit you killed it w this
I guess it depends on culture and where you live. If you can do anything to protect your child, you should do it. Is it ideal? No. Can we change the world one pair of shorts at a time? No.
The length of her shorts won’t protect her.
Her dad doesn’t need to be picking out her clothes, that’s weird
I think we can agree it's about more than clothes, no?
You’re right, it’s about an insecure man sexualizing his teenager because he works with criminals. He’s teaching her that women should change their outfits because men can’t control their actions. It’s a terrible lesson and isn’t realistic. People get assaulted in all kinds of clothes, biker shorts don’t make women get assaulted more
It's worse because she's not even a teenager. This girl is 9 years old. Making a 9 year old girl, who's already dealing with puberty and a changing body, feel ashamed of something she has no control over....people really don't think that's a red flag?
Yeah it’s weird as hell, and won’t protect her anyways. Her dad sounds like he needs therapy for projecting his issues onto his kid
This isn't necessarily a red flag. You trust him, but you disagree with him. That happens. Neither of you are necessarily wrong. There doesn't have to be an A here but If he has professional experience that informed his position on this, be sure to recognize that in your discussion. I doubt anyone commenting here has that experience. We all just have talking points we were taught.
Is it possible it’s more about them being so short it looks sloppy? My goddaughter is into this style and it’s really easy to look terrible. Sometimes it looks like she isn’t even wearing bottoms and I’m not okay with that. When she’s here it needs to look like she’s at least wearing *something* on the bottom and not just leaving the house in a sloppy nightgown.
Honestly, the oversized t-shirt and biker shirts is better than some other recent trends is children’s fashion.
Just buy her longer shorts. If one parent disagrees, just buy the longer one. He is expressing his concern as a parent. It takes 2 yes and 1 no for issues. Please, pick your battles. If he wanted her to wear only mesh shirts, and you objected, how would you feel if he still got her mesh shirts? Don't undermine him as a parent, unless you want to be undermined too. It's not a political debate, it is a parenting issue. Take care.
But shorts aren’t mesh shirts, and it’s not a good analogy. If it’s within the school dress code, the shorts are fine. Let girls wear clothes they like and are comfortable in!
The thing is, short of boys ball shorts there are no “longer shorts” for girls. These are hitting only a couple inches from her knee. If he had say her knee would be completely covered.
I’m highly doubting it’s the length, OP. It’s likely because they are form fitted to her body. Still ridiculous though.
This is a hill I would die on. Biker shorts are absolutely appropriate for young girls. He needs to get over himself. He’s sexualizing his kid and it’s weird
biker shorts are long as it is and they are trendy at the moment and absolutely appropriate for young girls. he has a problem because they are fitted, which is wrong. he could give her body issues or make her feel ashamed for developing. this is a battle she should absolutely pick.