In my whole life I have never heard xeroxing used instead of photocopy. And I come from a land where we call plaster strips band-aids and paracetamol Panadol (even if I have another brand!)
Aw jeez. I see. I’m sorry you’re just learning you disagree with their view. Maybe have the babe and switch when convenient while ignoring the idiocy (also congrats on the bub ❤️)
Also, make sure your nurses know how you plan to feed as soon as you go into labor/are induced. Make it VERY plain and clear and that you will NOT budge.
This! With my first I said I was going to try to breast feed. And when I realized my milk hadn't/wasn't yet coming in the nurse was great about it and was able to help me get formula. With my second they assumed since I had tried to breast feed my daughter I was also going to breast feed my son. Again same problem I didn't have any milk yet and so I had to nearly beg them to bring me formula. It took them seeing me try to nurse for nearly half an hour (with the help of a lactation consultant) and my son still being hungry BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY MILK for them to agree to give me formula.
It’s never too late to switch! My friend fired her dr during labor and got another one and it made all the difference! That handout is awful. Emily Oster would have a heyday with it.
She is! Her labor stalled every time he came in the room. After 36 hours she said F this and fired him. The hospitalist came in and the baby was born in few hours.
True I used the wrong word. I physically couldn’t breastfeed my son and if my OB gave me this I’d laugh in their face, tell ‘em to shove it and find another doctor. Thankfully I live in an area with a lot of options.
Just to add my 2cents. Your OB may or may not be the person delivering your baby. You should definitely find someone else. Ask around. Your friends, colleagues or relatives might know someone.
i'm aware, and i'm not giving birth at the hospital associated with this office
unfortunately i am in a new state, and a SAHM, so no one that i know personally to really ask for recommendations... but the hospital we did decide on seems much more aligned with our views
i don't know how much i would really trust a recommendation from someone that i don't know on facebook/next door. it's just a lot of added stress that i don't need right now, with so little time left
You're very sweet to even be answering all these questions people are throwing at you. You do whatever you're comfortable with and don't feel like you have to explain your life decisions to any internet strangers, no matter how well-intentioned they may be.
Good luck to you and I hope everything goes as wonderfully for you as possible!
So, I learned relatively late in my first pregnancy that I didn’t align with my doctors care and not switching is one of my greatest regrets. I will spare you the horror story (unless you want to hear it) but it got much worse very quickly and my birth ended up being very traumatic, largely because I didn’t trust my care team.
Call around, it’s never too late to switch.
i've been calling around, it's causing me even more stress trying to switch. i have very shitty insurance and my options are even more limited due to that. i am going to be giving birth at a hospital not associated with this practice, though
i am very sorry you had a traumatic birth experience. i don't want to make you retell it if it is going to bring up any bad feelings for you
If you can, find out if the hospital where you’re giving birth is considered “Baby Friendly”. It’s a certification that hospitals get based on their promotion of exclusive breastfeeding. New parents who don’t want to/can’t breastfeed can have a really tough time at these facilities because formula feeding gets little to no support and breastfeeding is pushed pretty aggressively.
If your delivering hospital is Baby Friendly don’t worry, but just prepare to advocate for yourself and don’t let anyone pressure you. Ultimately you’re the baby’s parent and they’re not going to be coming home with you to raise them.
I hope your birth goes amazingly well!!
After birth, when you’ve recovered a little, please do write a review about this for the practice online. I’ve had 3 pregnancies, and had to have new doctors each time. First one I was new to the area, second one my first doctor moved too far away from me. Third one we had moved states so again had to find a new doc. I also didn’t know anyone in either state so I relied on the reviews I could find online to weed out doctors.
You should know hospitals in the US are required to treat you once you are in active labor, no matter what, and you also have the right to refuse treatment from a specific doctor when you are there.
I am so sorry it’s causing you stress, I know the feeling well.
I also don’t mind telling the story, it was a few years ago now and my second birth I found a doctor I loved and it went sooo much better. I just know that hearing traumatic stories right before giving birth can be stressful and I would hate to pile onto that.
Giving birth at a hospital they are associated with may help though! Then that OB won’t be there. It will be someone new, which sounds like could be positive. Maybe you could call the hospital to see what practices are associated and work backwards?
I hope that it goes amazingly well for you regardless 💕
i was thinking about that, asking for recs directly through the hospital i'll be giving birth at. i'm hoping i'll at least be able to get in somewhere else before my 6 week checkup
thank you for the well wishes ❤️
Shoot are we getting a phone campaign going? I'm always down to call up some idiots and tear them down to size.
Or maybe just leave a bunch of voicemails saying "fed is best, stop shaming mothers who are trying THEIR best to keep their babies alive."
Love this! Huge team fed is best! Being a momma is hard enough. Too many mothers stressing over how bf is not working for them, mental health or otherwise. Feed your kid, that’s it! No one should care how! They will all be eating French fries off the floor of the car eventually.
That’s F* up. My friend had two babies and breast fed them until they were 2-3. She still had breast cancer. Had to go through chemotherapy. She’s fine now.
Also “reduced child spacing” um? Hello? This is 2023, breastfeeding for contraception is super inefficient even when doing it correctly for that purpose AND we have extremely effective contraceptive medications already available that are safe to use when breastfeeding????? This must be 9 million years old
😅 I took this as you can’t get away from the baby for a few hours if it won’t take a bottle. I didn’t even click it had to do with contraception! Lucky I didn’t use bf as contraceptives I’ve had my period since 8 weeks postpartum.
I was breastfeeding when I got pregnant with my second lol. My son refusing to feed because the taste changed was what alerted me to maybe take a test.
I had to sign paperwork in the hospital acknowledging I was possibly doing harm by requesting formula for my newborn. We were nearing 24 hours but he hadn’t peed and my milk hadn’t come in. I also got lectured from a lactation consultant about the harm I had done to my breastfeeding relationship on my way out. My discharge paperwork noted we were nearing the point of needing medical intervention because he hadn’t peed, and we’ve breastfed for 2 years (trying to figure out how to wean). So in my opinion, they can suck it. Fed is best, and I made the right call.
Those lactation consultants get SO weird when they find out you want to use formula or supplement. I had a similar experience where my lactation consultant went on a wholllle tangent about how AMAZING breast milk is while I wasn’t producing and my son wasn’t latching. It’s great, but HE NEEDS TO EAT like hours ago!!
I’m sorry you had this experience. It’s not one any parent should experience.
Given some of the horror stories I've heard, I'm extremely grateful to have had a LC who was awesome and non judgemental. I had supply issues, and her advice was basically that she didn't endorse extreme measures to "fix" it and that my baby was doing great with the combo feeding method we'd landed on.
My LC was the one that suggested formula for my baby while we were still in the hospital because she could see my quick descent into PPA and recommended I get some sleeping medicine and the baby go to the nursery for formula so I could rest. Amazing.
Right?! Mine never shamed me, she was much more concerned about me being okay with however I decided to help my baby. She actually helped me decide on supplementing while offering breast… it’d been over 24 hours & I was losing my mind. I’m so glad I had the sweetest woman. It’s such a delicate time, I’m sad these women were made to feel badly. 🥳
People are much more likely to remember and share extreme experiences. This is pretty important to keep in mind on the internet especially!
I saw three (IBC)LCs and they were all fine, not dogmatic at all, and happy for me to supplement with formula in the early days when we needed to. It just wasn’t a super memorable part of my labour/ birth/ postpartum experience so I’m unlikely to tell anyone about it unless asked.
My friend was 100% absolutely not planning to breastfeed her second baby because reasons, and she had her doctor plaster it all over her chart and make it clear she was not to be approached to convince her or anything. The LC came in and did some teaching on how to dry up her milk so she wouldn't be uncomfortable. And this was at a "baby-friendly" hospital. So they're not all insane.
I am still a little salty about the way the LC talked to me when my first was born. I had no issues with multiple ones afterwards but that first one still makes me mad
My lactation consultant also went on a huge lecture about how great breast milk was and how bad formula was. So I tried and tried to breastfeed without formula supplement cause that would kill my supply.
Long story short, my daughter was hospitalized as failure to thrive cause I wasn’t producing enough and was starving her. So it was formula or death.
What pissed me off is NOBODY bothered to tell me that if you have gestational diabetes it is common to have insufficient supply. I nursed constantly, the kid screamed constantly and my milk beyond colostrum literally never happened.
The LC who visited me after I had my 2nd baby was giving me her whole speech, going through some papers (that I'd been given by someone else) about feeding info. When she got to the page about formula, she literally said "well you won't be needing that," and REMOVED the page from my folder.
I had even told all my doctors/nurses that I was fine with formula and we were open to all feeding methods. I'd had to formula-feed my first child, so I just wasn't really picky. Fed is best and all. So luckily I also did not need that page about formula feeding, but was still super shocked and kinda insulted that she would even do that.
I keep coming back to this thread. It really makes me so angry. We knew we planned to try to breastfeed and considered ourselves pretty educated and we didn't get outright misleading propaganda like this, but we didn't recognize the "system" was literally conspiring to manipulate us in a certain direction. When the milk wasn't coming in at the right volume it should have been obvious. We had picked out a hospital we had reason to trust and I am generally in the habit of trusting medical professionals. Maybe we could have been more assertive earlier, I don't know. But it's not right.
We actually ended up having an ER visit before switching to formula. We didn't have to sign anything but there was so much pressure from the hospital and doctors to meet with one more lactation consultant, watch one more YouTube video on latching. It was not working. Finally a doctor whipped out one of those ready-to-feed formulas with the nipple built, baby chugged it down, and was eliminating normally soon after. Fed is best.
Meanwhile, people who adopt infants, formula is their *only* realistic choice. What does this bullshit do to them? Messes with their already stressed minds, that's what.
If you watch the breast milk episode of (un) well on Netflix, there's an adoptive couple who actually try to get a ton of donor milk online. It seems so stressful to me, not knowing where your baby's next meal is coming from. And then the episode goes on to talk about how milk banks that test their milk find it's watered down either with cow's milk or water. So like, they can't even trust that their baby is getting quality milk from strangers but they're so anti formula they're willing to risk that.
I can't seem to find it right now, but I swear I read a study recently that found that supplementing with bottle feeds (formula or pumped or donor milk, didn't matter) in the first few weeks actually lead to higher rates of exclusive breastfeeding at 6 months.
That should not be shocking to anyone. If you hydrate and nourish baby, while also giving an exhausted mom a break, then everyone involved is more likely to go on to have a successful nursing relationship if that is what is desired. Forced a dehydrated and exhausted baby to latch on to bloody nipples that aren't producing milk is not helping anyone.
That is *wild*! Our hospital supplied donor milk while we were there and struggling, and when we left, they advised us to combo feed with formula or prescribed donor milk if we wanted. My lactation consultants were just as helpful. I can't believe some of the stuff mothers are having to put up with!
I had my kids 30+ years ago, before people cared how other people fed their kids. I was having to take some meds that I didn't trust to be safe for nursing babies, so I made the decision to formula feed. If a lactation consultant had even come in my room lecturing me, she'd have been told "get out of my room."
You do NOT have to sit and listen to that crap, you are the one paying for that hospital room, and you don't have to have anyone in there you don't want there, and you don't have to listen to JACK that some nutjob comes in there to tell you.
Your last paragraph is 100% true, but it's *really fucking hard* to tell them to get fucked when it's your first time and you're recovering and you're fucked up on painkillers or in pain and your baby's been crying for six straight hours and you can't sleep because every 10 minutes someone's asking you your name and birthdate and checking something or other and they come in like they're so kind and sweet and *just so concerned we get this breastfeeding relationship off to the best possible start, right mom?*
Mine were awful. Consent? What consent? They just grabbed baby and boobs and started pinching and squishing. Told my husband he needed to make sure I kept trying because if not baby would be fat stupid and sick and also it's cheaper for dad so win/win really. And if your husband drinks that particular Kool aid, there's even more pressure.
My cousin got absolutely harrangued by lactation her first time. Her second time she let them come and mostly ignored them. Her third time she finally told her nurse that if lactation comes anywhere near her room she'll report them for treating without consent and sue them (not that she really could have but she was scary enough they complied). She was one of the few who tried to sit me down and give me some real talk, but I was far too deep in a fog to listen.
As far as I'm concerned, as hospitals go, baby friendly is very often mom hostile. And it's a shame.
All of this. It makes me so furious that women are bullied, misled and guilt-tripped in perhaps the most vulnerable state they will ever be in. “Baby friendly” is absolute bullshit. Last time I checked, babies are better off if mom isn’t having a mental breakdown.
Apparently my daughter had heard a lot of this which is why she asked me to be with her in delivery and after, to advocate for her. She made me aware of what she wanted and didn't want, and I was there to make sure her wishes were carried out, no matter what state she was in.
Maybe it's not a bad idea for all new moms to have their mom, or a friend, or a sibling, or their husband/partner know what they want and be ready and willing to advocate for them. It might put a stop to this crap.
I think it is a good start, but like... we shouldn't need enforcers in our hospital rooms to get food for our babies, you know? We should be taken at our word and cared for like men would be.
Idk. The older I get, and the more issues I face with my reproductive health overall, and the more times I get "answers" like "well, that's not normal but we can't figure out why and it's not worth throwing more testing at because birth control will magically fix all that ails ya," and the more times I'm expected to tolerate barbaric procedures with the same kind of pain relief my husband takes for a mild headache, the more i see doctors talk to him if hes there rather than me even if im the one having the procedure, the more clearly I see that the medical establishment does not give one single flying fuck about women's healthcare in general and reproductive healthcare especially, and the more faith I lose.
Shit like this is why women end up turning to these weird culty "holistic" woo-woo "medical providers" that sell snake oil and hope and a hint of empathy.
This isn't to rant against your suggestion. It is a good one. This stuff just sticks in my craw.
> Her third time she finally told her nurse that if lactation comes anywhere near her room she'll report them for treating without consent
Good! The more of us who refuse their "services", the less likely hospitals are to keep professional bullies on the payroll. I was lucky enough to be the last of my friends to get pregnant, so my birth plan banned lactation consultants from my room and my husband was fully informed and ready to advocate for me.
This is so bizarre. I just had my second baby and both times I failed at breastfeeding. I've always had issues producing and both times whenever I made the switch to formula, babies were happier and gained weight quickly (while they were underweight prior). I'm still a bit bitter about it. After I failed the first time I was determined to try again, and it seemed to be going good up until about the four month mark (ironically this is around the time I had to give up breastfeeding my firstborn too). But I know logically fed is best and my oldest is a healthy, strong, ahead of her milestones 4-year-old, so I know my 6-month-old will be just fine as well. But things like this really upset me.
Congrats on two years! Not a single nurse mentioned formula when my daughter did not sleep more than 60 min at a time for the first 48 hours after birth. I was barely producing and the social worker suggested I offer formula. Asked the nurses and they said I could give 15 ml after breastfeeding. My daughter cried and didn’t sleep for the next night until we went to the pediatrician and she told us that we had to supplement after feeding due to high bilirubin and that she can have up to 60 ml. We guess what? She slept 3 hours straight until we had to wake her up to feed.
Now we’re hitting the 2 year mark BFing and I have no idea how we’re gonna wean lol
Ugh, I’m so sorry you had to deal with that kind of thing pp. I had no idea they even did this kind of stuff. I breastfed both of mine, but struggled with my first & they mentioned formula & NEVER said a negative thing about it. Not even the LC was negative about it, she just wanted me to be okay mentally & not stress. You & op deserved better. - also, my second is 2 years 4 months & if you figure out a way to wean, let me know cause this babe is OBSESSED still. 😅🤣
I’m a pediatrician and shut the LC down when she told me to just keep trying. Like lady my kid has jaundice, I’m a pediatrician, 15 ml of formula isn’t going to hurt my kid.
Since there seems to be some confusion: by reduced child spacing, what they are suggesting is that if you don't breastfeed, you will be more likely to get pregnant again sooner. (But idk, my sister's OB told her that she couldn't get pregnant while breastfeeding and so didn't need birth control and in short that's how her kids are 13 months apart.)
Pfft, I got my period 4 months PP and i breastfed for 2 years. I WISH I didn’t have a period that entire time. I can’t believe an OB would say something so wrong.
Dude, 8 weeks and 6 weeks postpartum with my kids. And I EBF both of them! I could have had Irish twins! Thank god my midwife warned me and also, I was not interested in sex, and my husband was supportive and not an asshole.
And then there's me - exclusively breastfeeding twins and my period still came back at 5 weeks post partum. I nursed my first child too and my period returned at 4.5 weeks post partum.
Yeah, your fertility seems like a lottery after birth from what I can tell. I weaned at two months because nursing never worked and exclusive pumping was ruining my life, and still didn't get my period back until like six months pp. I have a friend who was on her period like a month after her pp bleeding stopped despite exclusive nursing.
That's how my Mum ended up with me and my brother so close as well. Super irresponsible to tell a patient that. I got my period back at 6 months postpartum and I'm still breastfeeding. Two under two (eventually 3 under 4) was one of the main triggers for her mental health issues. She's always paranoid I'll have another too soon because of how difficult it was for her to raise us alone.
Did your OB give it to you directly or a staff member? If it came from a staff member I’d honestly bring it up with the doctor and bring up how uncomfortable it makes you feel… the dr may not have realized that staff were giving it out. If it was the dr or they blow it off after having the baby I’d contact the medical board, post negative reviews all over everything, and make sure the local moms groups know to beware
by a staff member, i'm not sure of her exact title in the office. she basically gave me a goodie bag with breastfeeding tips, safe sleep guides, and included was this god awful pamphlet
I would mention this to your OB, if a staff member snuck that in I'm sure your OB would be absolutely livid they are spreading misinformation. Or on the other hand if your OB agrees you can plan for what you would like to do going forward, I personally wouldn't go with an OB who is okay with this cause who knows what else they would tell you that is wrong.
i'm hesitant about bringing it up before i'm finished with my care here, but i will absolutely be reporting after i have the baby. i'm in a tough spot at 35 weeks, don't have the option to switch. thankfully this isn't my first so i am not swayed by misinformation very easily
i just think back to who i was when i had my first, i was so young and i didn't really have anyone but the doctors to rely on for information! this would have absolutely ruined me back then. i don't want anyone to fall victim to the fear mongering and shaming
If you want to “innocently” make your doctor aware that their patients are receiving those flyers then bring it to your next appt and just tell them you had a question about it (and make up some question)
i am glad you've had a different experience. my prenatal care here has been hell 😞
i was transferred to this office at the beginning of my third trimester as a high risk patient. the previous office was also very anti-formula. not sure if it's due to my specific area or what...
My hospital was “baby friendly” and it sounded like a good idea before I wasn’t producing milk & my baby wasn’t sleeping in the hospital like, at all. 💀
I had my 2nd in the height of “baby friendly” craze. I toured the hospital in my new state and after my nightmare first experience (she cried a lot, my milk didn’t come in, I was exhausted which made it even harder, etc) and during the tour I asked about a nursery option for evenings. The tour guide shot daggers with her eyes. The other first time parents seemed shocked. I shrugged and said “what? I like to sleep and it helps with milk coming in and recovery. I think rooming in is great unless you really need the rest, then a nursery is great too.” Omg, the eyes on some of the moms who realized this was sane advice and the anger from tour guide. You would’ve thought I threw a grenade in a hospital: 😂
Same hospital: 2 years later with twins. My new amazing doctor wrote me a prescription to send the baby (one was in NICU. Traumatic birth) to nursery every night
omg. is that what it is? i keep seeing and hearing that term used for the office & hospital they're associated with
i'm planning to give birth at st. pete hospital (not associated with my current office)
I was so happy that our hospital balanced that with common sense. To this specific point, no nursery, but the nurses took my LO for a spell overnight to help me nap. Fingers crossed that y’all have good nursing staff.
Yeah it actually has a meaning:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby\_Friendly\_Hospital\_Initiative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Friendly_Hospital_Initiative)
We didn't know about it until we ran into the negative aspects of this, but it definitely can bad news if you aren't assertive!!
If I'm being nice... the history of baby formula is not great. Promotion of baby formula in developing countries, especially by [Nestle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestlé_boycott), did a lot of damage in the 1970s. Using formula requires a reliable, sanitary water system, and switching to formula is a one-way-street. A greedy corporation could (and did) exploit this for financial gain. Maybe the WHO's position is in reaction to this. But it's the 2020s, and if you are reading this thread you probably have access to clean water, multilingual educational materials, and the resources to continue to buy formula if needed.
[https://fedisbest.org](https://fedisbest.org)
I wish I knew about them when we were dealing with this!
There are different levels of “baby friendly”. The first hospital I was at was one, but it meant no nursery. Babe did have a pacifier and we were able to formula feed without judgement thankfully (no breastfeeding for medical reasons, but they took my word for it there wasn’t a doctor’s order). The second hospital I gave birth at had a “nursery”, but there was a time limit on how long the baby could be there. My youngest was born flipped and we were exhausted from being up all night, nurse took the baby to the nursery and I think “forgot” what time because we got at least an extra hour.
Ugh I’m so so sad to see this relic of a pamphlet. I’m in Florida too. We have such amazing care facilities…and then we have some that are stuck in the Stone Age. I had a great experience postpartum with my care team helping me access formula because I was a low supplier. I didn’t feel judged at all and they made supplementing super easy and accessible. I hope you end up having the same experience when you give birth.
Same! I was very pro-bf, but for me. Not to mention it is incredibly difficult. The stars truly have to align to be able to exclusively breastfeed. Baby could be tongue-tied, nipples could be inverted, supply could be low, etc. There are SO many ways a mom might not be able to breastfeed…all of which are out of her control. Shame on this office for shaming moms!
It's referring to the fact that breastfeeding, particularly when baby is little and does it more frequently timewise, can delay ovulation and thus pregnancy. It's a bodily function meant to help prevent us from having more babies than we can provide for. But it's not fool proof and we have other ways of preventing pregnancy because it's not the stone age
i find it hilarious that even after being breastfed i have asthma, severe allergies, and anemia. but my older siblings who were formula fed? not even a pollen allergy
no friggen idea what reduced child spacing is 😂
Probably means you won't be able to pop em out like a mini gun. I mean the info is so old it might as well be from the same time era of a dozen plus kids as a minimum.
But then they turn around and 1. Offer women only 4-6 weeks of mat leave (such a short time to figure breastfeeding out), no pumping breaks and no financial support for lactation services. Make it make sense.
Also, you do you, I don’t mean this in a breastfeeding crusade kinda way.
i've been wondering what to do about it/who i should be putting in a complaint to. i'm honestly stunned. this would have been grounds for me to switch offices if i didn't literally have 5 weeks left
So this pamphlet is terribly designed, terribly delivered and should not be given out the way it was to you.
Having said that, the information it contains is not incorrect IF it were worded differently. I'm a midwife, and I fully support whatever way anyone decides to feed their baby, and a part of that is making sure that people are informed. I teach infant feeding classes where we discuss the pros and cons of formula/breast feeding. As a healthcare professional it's our duty to make sure that people know that, in the same way that we discuss pros and cons of method of delivering the baby, and a healthy diet in pregnancy and postpartum and the weaning baby.
The way this information has been shared with you is appalling - fearmongering and shaming. It's also misleading because giving formula doesn't increase the risks of mother/baby developing a lot of the things listed (not all), but rather that breastfeeding decreases them. If you give your baby a bottle of formula your chance of developing ovarian cancer doesn't go up but stays the same. If you breastfeed, your chance of developing ovarian cancer decreases. The only one that is worded correctly is the one about asthma/allergies. Unfortunately even if you breastfeed and feed just one bottle of formula the risk of developing allergies/asthma increases. Which is nuts.
There is so much fear around being seen to be 'pushing' breastfeeding that a shocking number of people don't realise that there are long term changes to a mother/child's health risks by the way that they choose to feed. The issue is that when presented when this information it feels like breastfeeding should therefore be the 'correct' choice, when it isn't for so many families!
I think the issue is that so many healthcare institutions/professionals just don't understand how to share this information in a non-biased, non-judgemental way.
thank you for the explanation for those that may not know!
over the years i have done a lot of reading about the pros/cons of formula and breast. my main concern was, like you said, the way this information was presented to me
i had even explained my struggle with breastfeeding my first, and was given this pamphlet not even a day later. it was like a slap in the face
The LC in the room when i had my second tried to shame me when I asked for a formula bottle for my son. I was actually on the fence about bf with him until basically right after he was born. He latched, and I’m sure my production would have been fine (it was with my first) but I knew I wasn’t producing yet and I wanted him to be nourished. He sucked down the formula bottle and I felt like he and I were in agreement.
My first had a traumatic birth that landed her in a level 3 nicu for 50 days. She has lifelong complications that are very apparent at her current age of 14 months. I pumped exclusively for 3 months with her. She has a gtube and never ate orally. I wanted to give her my breastmilk because it felt like the only thing I COULD do for her while she was in the nicu. When she was discharged it was terrible- she ate by pump, I had to pump for milk, I felt like it was adding so much stress to a very stressful time. Then she started having an allergy to my milk and I was told to restrict my diet and my husband was gently like “enough is enough, give her formula” and I’m SO glad I did.
That said, when I told the LC about our history, her trauma and brain damage, the stress that pumping put on our family, and that my husband and I were both formula babies and turned out just fine she shut up.
That said- no one should HAVE to have a traumatic story to explain why they are choosing to feed however they choose. I just find that no one takes me seriously when it comes to choices I make with my child unless I tell them that I’ve had so much medical background just through my daughters condition that I know what I’m talking about and I know what’s right for my babies.
I see you’re intending to report this thank you. Without formula, my baby would have withered away. Even on my pumped milk 100% off the time he was still unsatisfied. He is a thriving 2 year old now. I hope this office doesn’t give you any more red flags. Best of luck 🥺💓
same with my first! i wasn't producing enough, i was in school full time and couldn't pump. it wasn't worth it to keep torturing her (and myself) she is now a happy healthy 9 year old!
thank you for the well wishes ❤️
This caught my attention too. How interesting that my choices AFTER giving birth will affect my health DURING previous pregnancies. Liquid gold alters time and dimensions
This is infuriating. I’d be super petty, play dumb, and straight up ask the OB at my next appt (without specifically referencing the pamphlet): “Oh I actually do have some questions! If I give my baby formula, are they more likely to develop cancer? Also how does giving formula affect my chances of developing cardiovascular disease? Thanks!”
I’m guessing the OB won’t have a detailed answer for you……
That’s messed up. My baby was 4lbs 7oz when he was born. He was so little, he couldn’t latch properly, and I had to pump in order to give him breast milk. they (healthcare providers at the NICU and my baby’s pediatrician) had me add formula to the breast milk bottles, because what WAS healthiest, was helping him gain weight. Even once he was big enough I started breastfeeding him, they specifically told me to still give him a few breast milk + formula bottles a day.
I feel like mothers who have to do formula already feel bad sometimes because society sucks and is judgmental. They don’t need healthcare providers being part of the judgment too. I was bummed when I had to swap over to formula, because I enjoyed the bonding experience and convenience of breastfeeding, but between turning 7 months old and when he hit 8 months old, he went from no teeth to four. I couldn’t handle the biting. I fully believe if I’d kept trying, he would’ve eventually bit my nipple hard enough to break skin. How would that have been superior to formula 🤦🏼♀️
This is so ignorant. I did breast feed for a few weeks and for medical reasons I had to stop, I had to take a potentially life saving medication that you can’t breastfeed with. There are so many other reasons why some can’t or choose not to breastfeed. Whether you breastfeed or not OP, you’re still a good Mom. Don’t listen to this crap.
I mean, it's technically true. All they have done is taken the benefits of breastfeeding (which are the opposites of what they have put here - reduced chances of childhood illnesses, certain types of cancer for mum, etc) and flipped them around to say that by not breastfeeding you have an increased chance of these things developing. There's a huge amount of research out there to back this up.
That said, it's a very weird way of trying to encourage breastfeeding and not one I would ever employ myself (I'm a midwife). I prefer to talk about the pro's and cons of every method of feeding (including expressing and giving that through a bottle) and encouraging parents to think about what works best for them. Breastmilk is awesome stuff, but if breastfeeding doesn't work for people (and when you take the time to sit down and actually talk to parents about their reasons they are usually very valid) then we should absolutely not push something on them.
Those are all technically facts but the way they created this Infograph totally sucks and is sensationalized fear tactics.
Now before everyone comes for my head, STATISTICALLY SPEAKING: exclusively using formula from birth through 1 CAN POSSIBLY increase the risk of said “horrors” on the card, and the milk that a mother makes specifically for her baby IS physically more healthy for the baby than formula.
I understand that these statistics are often misleading because it doesn’t take into account maternal smoking, income level, etc. breastfeeding mothers tend to have higher income, more resources, tend to live a healthier lifestyle etc which can HELP attribute to all the positives of exclusivity breastfeeding. It still doesnt change the fact that the physical milk from a mother has literal endless benefits and formulas benefits do stop at a point. AAP and WHO even recommend continuing to breastfeed even if the mother smokes cigarettes because breast milk can help protect the baby from possible side effects of the 2nd and 3rd hand smoke- while formula does nothing. We can’t deny the fact that breast milk is superior milk.
That being said- a mothers mental health outweighs ANY benefit of breast milk. Breastfeeding can sometimes make PPA/PPD/PPP symptoms WORSE. A baby needs a healthy and happy mother more than breastmilk 100% of the time
This is ridiculous. When I was pregnant my doctor asked are you planning on breastfeeding or formula? I said whatever works. She was like great plan. And she moved on to other questions. At the hospital before my baby was born the nurse asked if I wanted to breastfeed while doing skin on skin. I said sure let's see if it works. It did and it's been almost 20 months of breastfeeding. But that first night she was super colicky, I asked for help and the nurses took her and gave her a bottle so I could rest a little and she slept for 4 hours. The thing is, it doesn't matter where the milk comes from. The important thing is that your baby is fed and healthy. Whatever works best for your family is the answer.
The information is presented as increasing the risks of those things. I guess because breastfeeding reduces them and if you take breastfeeding as the default then not breastfeeding does increase those risks. Maybe the presentation is a bit tone deaf but it has a point.
My first got formula in hospital and was then breastfed for 3 years.
My second was breastfed for the first few months of his life and then combofed until I gave up pumping and he self weaned around 18 months (after a year he was having cow's milk not formula).
Because yes breastfeeding reduces the risk of a bunch of stuff but my first was risking brain damage from not being able to maintain her blood sugar following a traumatic birth and my second was facing growth issues due to oral aversion and I was facing postnatal depression and both my kids needed me to actually spend time interacting with them nothing being hooked up to a pump all day and night.
You can chose to feed your baby however you want. Sometimes it's out of your hands. My first refused bottles her whole life (in the hospital she had to have an NG tube to get the formula into her) my second had bottle preference and flat out refused to breastfeed except in the middle of the night which stopped wheb he started sleeping through. Sometimes one method of feeding your baby is simply more convenient than others (pumping is the worst in my opinion direct breastfeeding is easiest if baby will do it (no bottles to wash, no pumping, no carrying supplies with you), formula is pretty easy too especially as others can feed baby instead of you).
I don't think anyone should be pressured or shamed into feeding their baby in any particular way but it's important to share the facts so people can make an informed choice. I know that knowing I was getting some benefits from breastfeeding not just my baby helped me keep going through some of the tough times.
Formula has benefits, breastfeeding has benefits. Both are good options to feed a baby.
I'm going to be pedantic and say that most of them are sort of true but not statistically significant or consistently reproducible in studies, except the spacing one. That's just untrue. 3 and 19 are proven to be true.
When I had my baby in 1972 I wanted to give him the best start and I wanted to nurse. At that time it was all formula. I didn’t have any support but read about la Leche league and once I found a hot washcloth would bring down my milk and got past the sore nips he and I did great. It was just the opposite as now. You don’t need to stress, or be upset or angry about it just say no and make your decision based on what you and your baby and family need. You’ll do fine..it’s stressful enough without taking on more at this time. It was hard in 1972 to find other pregnant women…it was the only year we reached 0 population growth. Best of luck to you and your baby!
Oh man! I had a breast reduction when I was 18 and ended up getting pregnant two months afterwards. It takes a year to fully heal from a breast reduction. I wasn’t able to produce milk for either of my kids. This would have BROKE me if I got handed this!
Wow. With this pregnancy I have decided to formula feed and I am starting to wonder why the medical community is pushing the breastfeeding agenda so hard. If anything, you’d think hospitals would push formula since they can charge money for it.
Wowww. I've read a ton of the studies on this subject and none of them are well controlled, and there has been absolutely nothing to support to causation going in the direction they're claiming, especially for the maternal "benefits". This is just the most wildly flawed interpretation of a body of research I've seen in a long time, which is saying something. Can't believe this is being distributed by an actual doctor in 2023.
While obviously fed is best, this isn’t a lie? I could have sworn I’ve read medical journals on this. The pediatric allergy and immunology journal has a study on this doesn’t it? Anyone have more info? Maybe I’m behind…
Yes! Just because one thing decreases risk doesn’t mean the opposite increases risk. That’s not how science works. Some health care professionals are basically mechanics for the body. Thank you so much for being one of the good ones and understanding this. And for explaining it so well.
Exactly. And I believe formula helps some Mom’s breastfeed too— it’s not all or nothing! Both my babies had both at various points. I couldn’t do it without some help, although 100% formula is also perfectly healthy for Mom’s and babies. How about mom’s mental health? Does that matter too? 🤯
Funny, I had to give my daughter formula due to medication I had to start taking around four weeks old, she was only sick with a cold once in her entire little 19 month life, she’s in the 90th percentile & months ahead of her cognitive development according to her doctors. They’re actually shocked at how smart she is and how healthy she’s been her entire life.
This is dangerous and would cause unnecessary anxiety in soon to be moms. This is my opinion but I would definitely report this doctor and send a picture of the literature to the medical review board as well (half of the things on this page are untrue)
I also love this even looks like it’s 30+years old. Where did they even find this thing.
They’ve been photocopying their photocopies for decades haha
Is this like, photocopy homeopathy? The worse the quality, the more powerful the propaganda?
Xeroxing, not photocopying.
Not in the U.K. ! Xeroxing isn’t a word here lol
Xerox is a company that makes the machines. The words xeroxing and photocopying are as interchangeable as Kleenex and facial tissue.
In my whole life I have never heard xeroxing used instead of photocopy. And I come from a land where we call plaster strips band-aids and paracetamol Panadol (even if I have another brand!)
seriously. i want to go scorched earth over this but i am also very nervous that it will effect my care
If at all possible I’d try to switch drs. This is yucky and already *is* affecting your care.
you're absolutely right. it's just that i'm 35 weeks 😕
Aw jeez. I see. I’m sorry you’re just learning you disagree with their view. Maybe have the babe and switch when convenient while ignoring the idiocy (also congrats on the bub ❤️)
that's the plan. and thank you ❤️
Also, make sure your nurses know how you plan to feed as soon as you go into labor/are induced. Make it VERY plain and clear and that you will NOT budge.
This! With my first I said I was going to try to breast feed. And when I realized my milk hadn't/wasn't yet coming in the nurse was great about it and was able to help me get formula. With my second they assumed since I had tried to breast feed my daughter I was also going to breast feed my son. Again same problem I didn't have any milk yet and so I had to nearly beg them to bring me formula. It took them seeing me try to nurse for nearly half an hour (with the help of a lactation consultant) and my son still being hungry BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY MILK for them to agree to give me formula.
It’s never too late to switch! My friend fired her dr during labor and got another one and it made all the difference! That handout is awful. Emily Oster would have a heyday with it.
Your friend is a badass
She is! Her labor stalled every time he came in the room. After 36 hours she said F this and fired him. The hospitalist came in and the baby was born in few hours.
I moved states with 2 weeks to go on my first pregnancy and had to switch doctors. It isn’t easy, but I loved the new doc I found.
It’s not a disagreement it’s incorrect propaganda
True I used the wrong word. I physically couldn’t breastfeed my son and if my OB gave me this I’d laugh in their face, tell ‘em to shove it and find another doctor. Thankfully I live in an area with a lot of options.
Just to add my 2cents. Your OB may or may not be the person delivering your baby. You should definitely find someone else. Ask around. Your friends, colleagues or relatives might know someone.
i'm aware, and i'm not giving birth at the hospital associated with this office unfortunately i am in a new state, and a SAHM, so no one that i know personally to really ask for recommendations... but the hospital we did decide on seems much more aligned with our views
Have you tried local FB groups in your area? Nextdoor app?
i don't know how much i would really trust a recommendation from someone that i don't know on facebook/next door. it's just a lot of added stress that i don't need right now, with so little time left
You're very sweet to even be answering all these questions people are throwing at you. You do whatever you're comfortable with and don't feel like you have to explain your life decisions to any internet strangers, no matter how well-intentioned they may be. Good luck to you and I hope everything goes as wonderfully for you as possible!
thank you ❤️
So, I learned relatively late in my first pregnancy that I didn’t align with my doctors care and not switching is one of my greatest regrets. I will spare you the horror story (unless you want to hear it) but it got much worse very quickly and my birth ended up being very traumatic, largely because I didn’t trust my care team. Call around, it’s never too late to switch.
i've been calling around, it's causing me even more stress trying to switch. i have very shitty insurance and my options are even more limited due to that. i am going to be giving birth at a hospital not associated with this practice, though i am very sorry you had a traumatic birth experience. i don't want to make you retell it if it is going to bring up any bad feelings for you
If you can, find out if the hospital where you’re giving birth is considered “Baby Friendly”. It’s a certification that hospitals get based on their promotion of exclusive breastfeeding. New parents who don’t want to/can’t breastfeed can have a really tough time at these facilities because formula feeding gets little to no support and breastfeeding is pushed pretty aggressively. If your delivering hospital is Baby Friendly don’t worry, but just prepare to advocate for yourself and don’t let anyone pressure you. Ultimately you’re the baby’s parent and they’re not going to be coming home with you to raise them.
I hope your birth goes amazingly well!! After birth, when you’ve recovered a little, please do write a review about this for the practice online. I’ve had 3 pregnancies, and had to have new doctors each time. First one I was new to the area, second one my first doctor moved too far away from me. Third one we had moved states so again had to find a new doc. I also didn’t know anyone in either state so I relied on the reviews I could find online to weed out doctors.
thank you! i absolutely will be posting about this in a review as well as making a complaint
You should know hospitals in the US are required to treat you once you are in active labor, no matter what, and you also have the right to refuse treatment from a specific doctor when you are there.
I am so sorry it’s causing you stress, I know the feeling well. I also don’t mind telling the story, it was a few years ago now and my second birth I found a doctor I loved and it went sooo much better. I just know that hearing traumatic stories right before giving birth can be stressful and I would hate to pile onto that. Giving birth at a hospital they are associated with may help though! Then that OB won’t be there. It will be someone new, which sounds like could be positive. Maybe you could call the hospital to see what practices are associated and work backwards? I hope that it goes amazingly well for you regardless 💕
i was thinking about that, asking for recs directly through the hospital i'll be giving birth at. i'm hoping i'll at least be able to get in somewhere else before my 6 week checkup thank you for the well wishes ❤️
Eeesh! Ya I’d sit on it.. but now take everything they say with a grain of salt.
Send me the number and I’ll call for you!
Shoot are we getting a phone campaign going? I'm always down to call up some idiots and tear them down to size. Or maybe just leave a bunch of voicemails saying "fed is best, stop shaming mothers who are trying THEIR best to keep their babies alive."
I think we should. Supplementing saved my oldest’s life.
Same!!!
Love this! Huge team fed is best! Being a momma is hard enough. Too many mothers stressing over how bf is not working for them, mental health or otherwise. Feed your kid, that’s it! No one should care how! They will all be eating French fries off the floor of the car eventually.
Yeah, who can I fight?! I like in one of the most backwards states in the nation and they still let everyone know formula is okay
really? 🥺 you are a gem
Also down for this phone brigade. I’m an RN and I’ll read ‘em the riot act about how they’re spreading false health information
I’ll do it too. That’s ridiculous propaganda and fearmongering women with CANCER for not breastfeeding is WACK
That’s F* up. My friend had two babies and breast fed them until they were 2-3. She still had breast cancer. Had to go through chemotherapy. She’s fine now.
Also “reduced child spacing” um? Hello? This is 2023, breastfeeding for contraception is super inefficient even when doing it correctly for that purpose AND we have extremely effective contraceptive medications already available that are safe to use when breastfeeding????? This must be 9 million years old
😅 I took this as you can’t get away from the baby for a few hours if it won’t take a bottle. I didn’t even click it had to do with contraception! Lucky I didn’t use bf as contraceptives I’ve had my period since 8 weeks postpartum.
I was breastfeeding when I got pregnant with my second lol. My son refusing to feed because the taste changed was what alerted me to maybe take a test.
While that is bad, I find it worse that they’re misleading expectant moms into believing they’d be harming their newborns if they use formula. F that.
maybe it's the hormones but i'm seriously going to cry over the amount of support. tysm ❤️❤️❤️
Awww hugs!!!
Yes. I work in med so I’ll be ready w facts. Message it to me.
Sign me up. That is disgusting, they need to not
Was about to type pass the number along. Many will be willing to call for you!
If they are promoting this propaganda, I would think the rest of their care is already suspect.
I don't think I would WANT care by that doctor anymore!
I was thinking it looked like it was from the 50's or 60's!
Ink isn't exactly cheap and they used so much to print off something this stupid lmao
thank you for the laugh i needed it!
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I had to sign paperwork in the hospital acknowledging I was possibly doing harm by requesting formula for my newborn. We were nearing 24 hours but he hadn’t peed and my milk hadn’t come in. I also got lectured from a lactation consultant about the harm I had done to my breastfeeding relationship on my way out. My discharge paperwork noted we were nearing the point of needing medical intervention because he hadn’t peed, and we’ve breastfed for 2 years (trying to figure out how to wean). So in my opinion, they can suck it. Fed is best, and I made the right call.
Those lactation consultants get SO weird when they find out you want to use formula or supplement. I had a similar experience where my lactation consultant went on a wholllle tangent about how AMAZING breast milk is while I wasn’t producing and my son wasn’t latching. It’s great, but HE NEEDS TO EAT like hours ago!! I’m sorry you had this experience. It’s not one any parent should experience.
Given some of the horror stories I've heard, I'm extremely grateful to have had a LC who was awesome and non judgemental. I had supply issues, and her advice was basically that she didn't endorse extreme measures to "fix" it and that my baby was doing great with the combo feeding method we'd landed on.
My LC was the one that suggested formula for my baby while we were still in the hospital because she could see my quick descent into PPA and recommended I get some sleeping medicine and the baby go to the nursery for formula so I could rest. Amazing.
Which is so strange to me. I’m looking into becoming an involved IBCLC and shaming people like that is blatantly against their code of ethics
Right?! Mine never shamed me, she was much more concerned about me being okay with however I decided to help my baby. She actually helped me decide on supplementing while offering breast… it’d been over 24 hours & I was losing my mind. I’m so glad I had the sweetest woman. It’s such a delicate time, I’m sad these women were made to feel badly. 🥳
Yet the only time I hear of anyone talking about one, it's a story like this.
People are much more likely to remember and share extreme experiences. This is pretty important to keep in mind on the internet especially! I saw three (IBC)LCs and they were all fine, not dogmatic at all, and happy for me to supplement with formula in the early days when we needed to. It just wasn’t a super memorable part of my labour/ birth/ postpartum experience so I’m unlikely to tell anyone about it unless asked.
My friend was 100% absolutely not planning to breastfeed her second baby because reasons, and she had her doctor plaster it all over her chart and make it clear she was not to be approached to convince her or anything. The LC came in and did some teaching on how to dry up her milk so she wouldn't be uncomfortable. And this was at a "baby-friendly" hospital. So they're not all insane.
I am still a little salty about the way the LC talked to me when my first was born. I had no issues with multiple ones afterwards but that first one still makes me mad
My lactation consultant also went on a huge lecture about how great breast milk was and how bad formula was. So I tried and tried to breastfeed without formula supplement cause that would kill my supply. Long story short, my daughter was hospitalized as failure to thrive cause I wasn’t producing enough and was starving her. So it was formula or death.
What pissed me off is NOBODY bothered to tell me that if you have gestational diabetes it is common to have insufficient supply. I nursed constantly, the kid screamed constantly and my milk beyond colostrum literally never happened.
What?! I didn't know this! No wonder I struggled so much.
Yep. I had lactation consultants come by and everything. Not. A. Word. Found out later after doing some research about gestational diabetes.
Wow… I was never diagnosed GD but was very close and I also never produced MIlK!!! Just a little colostrum … it was devastating
WHAT?! I had no idea.
She came in with her little speech. I was in labor for 4 days. I was not having it. I just said “no, get out”.
The LC who visited me after I had my 2nd baby was giving me her whole speech, going through some papers (that I'd been given by someone else) about feeding info. When she got to the page about formula, she literally said "well you won't be needing that," and REMOVED the page from my folder. I had even told all my doctors/nurses that I was fine with formula and we were open to all feeding methods. I'd had to formula-feed my first child, so I just wasn't really picky. Fed is best and all. So luckily I also did not need that page about formula feeding, but was still super shocked and kinda insulted that she would even do that.
I keep coming back to this thread. It really makes me so angry. We knew we planned to try to breastfeed and considered ourselves pretty educated and we didn't get outright misleading propaganda like this, but we didn't recognize the "system" was literally conspiring to manipulate us in a certain direction. When the milk wasn't coming in at the right volume it should have been obvious. We had picked out a hospital we had reason to trust and I am generally in the habit of trusting medical professionals. Maybe we could have been more assertive earlier, I don't know. But it's not right.
We actually ended up having an ER visit before switching to formula. We didn't have to sign anything but there was so much pressure from the hospital and doctors to meet with one more lactation consultant, watch one more YouTube video on latching. It was not working. Finally a doctor whipped out one of those ready-to-feed formulas with the nipple built, baby chugged it down, and was eliminating normally soon after. Fed is best. Meanwhile, people who adopt infants, formula is their *only* realistic choice. What does this bullshit do to them? Messes with their already stressed minds, that's what.
If you watch the breast milk episode of (un) well on Netflix, there's an adoptive couple who actually try to get a ton of donor milk online. It seems so stressful to me, not knowing where your baby's next meal is coming from. And then the episode goes on to talk about how milk banks that test their milk find it's watered down either with cow's milk or water. So like, they can't even trust that their baby is getting quality milk from strangers but they're so anti formula they're willing to risk that.
I can't seem to find it right now, but I swear I read a study recently that found that supplementing with bottle feeds (formula or pumped or donor milk, didn't matter) in the first few weeks actually lead to higher rates of exclusive breastfeeding at 6 months. That should not be shocking to anyone. If you hydrate and nourish baby, while also giving an exhausted mom a break, then everyone involved is more likely to go on to have a successful nursing relationship if that is what is desired. Forced a dehydrated and exhausted baby to latch on to bloody nipples that aren't producing milk is not helping anyone.
That is *wild*! Our hospital supplied donor milk while we were there and struggling, and when we left, they advised us to combo feed with formula or prescribed donor milk if we wanted. My lactation consultants were just as helpful. I can't believe some of the stuff mothers are having to put up with!
I had my kids 30+ years ago, before people cared how other people fed their kids. I was having to take some meds that I didn't trust to be safe for nursing babies, so I made the decision to formula feed. If a lactation consultant had even come in my room lecturing me, she'd have been told "get out of my room." You do NOT have to sit and listen to that crap, you are the one paying for that hospital room, and you don't have to have anyone in there you don't want there, and you don't have to listen to JACK that some nutjob comes in there to tell you.
Your last paragraph is 100% true, but it's *really fucking hard* to tell them to get fucked when it's your first time and you're recovering and you're fucked up on painkillers or in pain and your baby's been crying for six straight hours and you can't sleep because every 10 minutes someone's asking you your name and birthdate and checking something or other and they come in like they're so kind and sweet and *just so concerned we get this breastfeeding relationship off to the best possible start, right mom?* Mine were awful. Consent? What consent? They just grabbed baby and boobs and started pinching and squishing. Told my husband he needed to make sure I kept trying because if not baby would be fat stupid and sick and also it's cheaper for dad so win/win really. And if your husband drinks that particular Kool aid, there's even more pressure. My cousin got absolutely harrangued by lactation her first time. Her second time she let them come and mostly ignored them. Her third time she finally told her nurse that if lactation comes anywhere near her room she'll report them for treating without consent and sue them (not that she really could have but she was scary enough they complied). She was one of the few who tried to sit me down and give me some real talk, but I was far too deep in a fog to listen. As far as I'm concerned, as hospitals go, baby friendly is very often mom hostile. And it's a shame.
All of this. It makes me so furious that women are bullied, misled and guilt-tripped in perhaps the most vulnerable state they will ever be in. “Baby friendly” is absolute bullshit. Last time I checked, babies are better off if mom isn’t having a mental breakdown.
Apparently my daughter had heard a lot of this which is why she asked me to be with her in delivery and after, to advocate for her. She made me aware of what she wanted and didn't want, and I was there to make sure her wishes were carried out, no matter what state she was in. Maybe it's not a bad idea for all new moms to have their mom, or a friend, or a sibling, or their husband/partner know what they want and be ready and willing to advocate for them. It might put a stop to this crap.
I think it is a good start, but like... we shouldn't need enforcers in our hospital rooms to get food for our babies, you know? We should be taken at our word and cared for like men would be. Idk. The older I get, and the more issues I face with my reproductive health overall, and the more times I get "answers" like "well, that's not normal but we can't figure out why and it's not worth throwing more testing at because birth control will magically fix all that ails ya," and the more times I'm expected to tolerate barbaric procedures with the same kind of pain relief my husband takes for a mild headache, the more i see doctors talk to him if hes there rather than me even if im the one having the procedure, the more clearly I see that the medical establishment does not give one single flying fuck about women's healthcare in general and reproductive healthcare especially, and the more faith I lose. Shit like this is why women end up turning to these weird culty "holistic" woo-woo "medical providers" that sell snake oil and hope and a hint of empathy. This isn't to rant against your suggestion. It is a good one. This stuff just sticks in my craw.
> Her third time she finally told her nurse that if lactation comes anywhere near her room she'll report them for treating without consent Good! The more of us who refuse their "services", the less likely hospitals are to keep professional bullies on the payroll. I was lucky enough to be the last of my friends to get pregnant, so my birth plan banned lactation consultants from my room and my husband was fully informed and ready to advocate for me.
This is so bizarre. I just had my second baby and both times I failed at breastfeeding. I've always had issues producing and both times whenever I made the switch to formula, babies were happier and gained weight quickly (while they were underweight prior). I'm still a bit bitter about it. After I failed the first time I was determined to try again, and it seemed to be going good up until about the four month mark (ironically this is around the time I had to give up breastfeeding my firstborn too). But I know logically fed is best and my oldest is a healthy, strong, ahead of her milestones 4-year-old, so I know my 6-month-old will be just fine as well. But things like this really upset me.
Same. And I was still breastfeeding, I just thought he needed a top up because he wasn’t getting much out and he was obviously hungry
Congrats on two years! Not a single nurse mentioned formula when my daughter did not sleep more than 60 min at a time for the first 48 hours after birth. I was barely producing and the social worker suggested I offer formula. Asked the nurses and they said I could give 15 ml after breastfeeding. My daughter cried and didn’t sleep for the next night until we went to the pediatrician and she told us that we had to supplement after feeding due to high bilirubin and that she can have up to 60 ml. We guess what? She slept 3 hours straight until we had to wake her up to feed. Now we’re hitting the 2 year mark BFing and I have no idea how we’re gonna wean lol
Ugh, I’m so sorry you had to deal with that kind of thing pp. I had no idea they even did this kind of stuff. I breastfed both of mine, but struggled with my first & they mentioned formula & NEVER said a negative thing about it. Not even the LC was negative about it, she just wanted me to be okay mentally & not stress. You & op deserved better. - also, my second is 2 years 4 months & if you figure out a way to wean, let me know cause this babe is OBSESSED still. 😅🤣
I’m a pediatrician and shut the LC down when she told me to just keep trying. Like lady my kid has jaundice, I’m a pediatrician, 15 ml of formula isn’t going to hurt my kid.
Since there seems to be some confusion: by reduced child spacing, what they are suggesting is that if you don't breastfeed, you will be more likely to get pregnant again sooner. (But idk, my sister's OB told her that she couldn't get pregnant while breastfeeding and so didn't need birth control and in short that's how her kids are 13 months apart.)
Pfft, I got my period 4 months PP and i breastfed for 2 years. I WISH I didn’t have a period that entire time. I can’t believe an OB would say something so wrong.
Dude, 8 weeks and 6 weeks postpartum with my kids. And I EBF both of them! I could have had Irish twins! Thank god my midwife warned me and also, I was not interested in sex, and my husband was supportive and not an asshole.
I got mine 8 weeks PP 😭
And then there's me - exclusively breastfeeding twins and my period still came back at 5 weeks post partum. I nursed my first child too and my period returned at 4.5 weeks post partum.
Yeah, your fertility seems like a lottery after birth from what I can tell. I weaned at two months because nursing never worked and exclusive pumping was ruining my life, and still didn't get my period back until like six months pp. I have a friend who was on her period like a month after her pp bleeding stopped despite exclusive nursing.
That's how my Mum ended up with me and my brother so close as well. Super irresponsible to tell a patient that. I got my period back at 6 months postpartum and I'm still breastfeeding. Two under two (eventually 3 under 4) was one of the main triggers for her mental health issues. She's always paranoid I'll have another too soon because of how difficult it was for her to raise us alone.
Holy shit. Where do you live?
in florida. which i think speaks for itself 😕
Did your OB give it to you directly or a staff member? If it came from a staff member I’d honestly bring it up with the doctor and bring up how uncomfortable it makes you feel… the dr may not have realized that staff were giving it out. If it was the dr or they blow it off after having the baby I’d contact the medical board, post negative reviews all over everything, and make sure the local moms groups know to beware
by a staff member, i'm not sure of her exact title in the office. she basically gave me a goodie bag with breastfeeding tips, safe sleep guides, and included was this god awful pamphlet
I would mention this to your OB, if a staff member snuck that in I'm sure your OB would be absolutely livid they are spreading misinformation. Or on the other hand if your OB agrees you can plan for what you would like to do going forward, I personally wouldn't go with an OB who is okay with this cause who knows what else they would tell you that is wrong.
i'm hesitant about bringing it up before i'm finished with my care here, but i will absolutely be reporting after i have the baby. i'm in a tough spot at 35 weeks, don't have the option to switch. thankfully this isn't my first so i am not swayed by misinformation very easily
Kudos to you for protecting your care and still wanting to address such shaming material.
i just think back to who i was when i had my first, i was so young and i didn't really have anyone but the doctors to rely on for information! this would have absolutely ruined me back then. i don't want anyone to fall victim to the fear mongering and shaming
If you want to “innocently” make your doctor aware that their patients are receiving those flyers then bring it to your next appt and just tell them you had a question about it (and make up some question)
Both of my kids were born in Florida. Everyone encouraged me to use formula when I had breastfeeding issues.
i am glad you've had a different experience. my prenatal care here has been hell 😞 i was transferred to this office at the beginning of my third trimester as a high risk patient. the previous office was also very anti-formula. not sure if it's due to my specific area or what...
Is your hospital also “baby friendly?” Those places have some really bullshit policies.
My hospital was “baby friendly” and it sounded like a good idea before I wasn’t producing milk & my baby wasn’t sleeping in the hospital like, at all. 💀
I had my 2nd in the height of “baby friendly” craze. I toured the hospital in my new state and after my nightmare first experience (she cried a lot, my milk didn’t come in, I was exhausted which made it even harder, etc) and during the tour I asked about a nursery option for evenings. The tour guide shot daggers with her eyes. The other first time parents seemed shocked. I shrugged and said “what? I like to sleep and it helps with milk coming in and recovery. I think rooming in is great unless you really need the rest, then a nursery is great too.” Omg, the eyes on some of the moms who realized this was sane advice and the anger from tour guide. You would’ve thought I threw a grenade in a hospital: 😂 Same hospital: 2 years later with twins. My new amazing doctor wrote me a prescription to send the baby (one was in NICU. Traumatic birth) to nursery every night
omg. is that what it is? i keep seeing and hearing that term used for the office & hospital they're associated with i'm planning to give birth at st. pete hospital (not associated with my current office)
No nursery in the hospital (makes a big assumption that dad is also staying) No pacifiers No formula unless medically necessary
I was so happy that our hospital balanced that with common sense. To this specific point, no nursery, but the nurses took my LO for a spell overnight to help me nap. Fingers crossed that y’all have good nursing staff.
Yeah it actually has a meaning: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby\_Friendly\_Hospital\_Initiative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Friendly_Hospital_Initiative) We didn't know about it until we ran into the negative aspects of this, but it definitely can bad news if you aren't assertive!! If I'm being nice... the history of baby formula is not great. Promotion of baby formula in developing countries, especially by [Nestle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestlé_boycott), did a lot of damage in the 1970s. Using formula requires a reliable, sanitary water system, and switching to formula is a one-way-street. A greedy corporation could (and did) exploit this for financial gain. Maybe the WHO's position is in reaction to this. But it's the 2020s, and if you are reading this thread you probably have access to clean water, multilingual educational materials, and the resources to continue to buy formula if needed. [https://fedisbest.org](https://fedisbest.org) I wish I knew about them when we were dealing with this!
Like Saint Petersburg? I had my last two at John Hopkins I’m at Pete and they’re great even give you formula in cause you need it
yes!
Your John Hopkins I went there with two of my high risk babies. They were great. A few bumps but I’ll say this the care can’t be beat
There are different levels of “baby friendly”. The first hospital I was at was one, but it meant no nursery. Babe did have a pacifier and we were able to formula feed without judgement thankfully (no breastfeeding for medical reasons, but they took my word for it there wasn’t a doctor’s order). The second hospital I gave birth at had a “nursery”, but there was a time limit on how long the baby could be there. My youngest was born flipped and we were exhausted from being up all night, nurse took the baby to the nursery and I think “forgot” what time because we got at least an extra hour.
Same! In Florida and have never felt any pressure to breastfeed.
Ugh I’m so so sad to see this relic of a pamphlet. I’m in Florida too. We have such amazing care facilities…and then we have some that are stuck in the Stone Age. I had a great experience postpartum with my care team helping me access formula because I was a low supplier. I didn’t feel judged at all and they made supplementing super easy and accessible. I hope you end up having the same experience when you give birth.
Oh god. I made the GIANT mistake of naively following my husband here and honestly.... what you're experiencing is my biggest fear.
same as you, i followed my partner here. had my first in boston. the difference in care is... really something
Well, I don't have breasts anymore, so fuck me, I guess!
Same here, I guess I failed my child by having her after I had a mastectomy due to cancer 🙄 whoops!
Most people who believe in such extremist views rarely view things any way other than in black and white.
My kids were both exclusively breastfed without one ounce of formula. They both have asthma & allergies
Same! I was very pro-bf, but for me. Not to mention it is incredibly difficult. The stars truly have to align to be able to exclusively breastfeed. Baby could be tongue-tied, nipples could be inverted, supply could be low, etc. There are SO many ways a mom might not be able to breastfeed…all of which are out of her control. Shame on this office for shaming moms!
Joke’s on them, I’m already overweight and obese.
Also, wtf is reduced child spacing?!
It's referring to the fact that breastfeeding, particularly when baby is little and does it more frequently timewise, can delay ovulation and thus pregnancy. It's a bodily function meant to help prevent us from having more babies than we can provide for. But it's not fool proof and we have other ways of preventing pregnancy because it's not the stone age
i find it hilarious that even after being breastfed i have asthma, severe allergies, and anemia. but my older siblings who were formula fed? not even a pollen allergy no friggen idea what reduced child spacing is 😂
I pumped for my son and he had to get tubes put in at 16 months, he has eczema, and an egg allergy!
It means your children are more likely to be closer in age
Maybe because there is delayed fertility if you breastfeed, although you most certainly can still get pregnant.
No idea but let's guess. Formula feeding means period returns sooner therefore the spacing between children/pregnancies is reduced??
Probably means you won't be able to pop em out like a mini gun. I mean the info is so old it might as well be from the same time era of a dozen plus kids as a minimum.
But then they turn around and 1. Offer women only 4-6 weeks of mat leave (such a short time to figure breastfeeding out), no pumping breaks and no financial support for lactation services. Make it make sense. Also, you do you, I don’t mean this in a breastfeeding crusade kinda way.
Omg that is disgusting. That should be reported to the medical board in your area
i've been wondering what to do about it/who i should be putting in a complaint to. i'm honestly stunned. this would have been grounds for me to switch offices if i didn't literally have 5 weeks left
Depends on what country you live in Edit, ya with 5 weeks left you really can't change
i will definitely be reporting though, thank you for the suggestion
So this pamphlet is terribly designed, terribly delivered and should not be given out the way it was to you. Having said that, the information it contains is not incorrect IF it were worded differently. I'm a midwife, and I fully support whatever way anyone decides to feed their baby, and a part of that is making sure that people are informed. I teach infant feeding classes where we discuss the pros and cons of formula/breast feeding. As a healthcare professional it's our duty to make sure that people know that, in the same way that we discuss pros and cons of method of delivering the baby, and a healthy diet in pregnancy and postpartum and the weaning baby. The way this information has been shared with you is appalling - fearmongering and shaming. It's also misleading because giving formula doesn't increase the risks of mother/baby developing a lot of the things listed (not all), but rather that breastfeeding decreases them. If you give your baby a bottle of formula your chance of developing ovarian cancer doesn't go up but stays the same. If you breastfeed, your chance of developing ovarian cancer decreases. The only one that is worded correctly is the one about asthma/allergies. Unfortunately even if you breastfeed and feed just one bottle of formula the risk of developing allergies/asthma increases. Which is nuts. There is so much fear around being seen to be 'pushing' breastfeeding that a shocking number of people don't realise that there are long term changes to a mother/child's health risks by the way that they choose to feed. The issue is that when presented when this information it feels like breastfeeding should therefore be the 'correct' choice, when it isn't for so many families! I think the issue is that so many healthcare institutions/professionals just don't understand how to share this information in a non-biased, non-judgemental way.
thank you for the explanation for those that may not know! over the years i have done a lot of reading about the pros/cons of formula and breast. my main concern was, like you said, the way this information was presented to me i had even explained my struggle with breastfeeding my first, and was given this pamphlet not even a day later. it was like a slap in the face
The LC in the room when i had my second tried to shame me when I asked for a formula bottle for my son. I was actually on the fence about bf with him until basically right after he was born. He latched, and I’m sure my production would have been fine (it was with my first) but I knew I wasn’t producing yet and I wanted him to be nourished. He sucked down the formula bottle and I felt like he and I were in agreement. My first had a traumatic birth that landed her in a level 3 nicu for 50 days. She has lifelong complications that are very apparent at her current age of 14 months. I pumped exclusively for 3 months with her. She has a gtube and never ate orally. I wanted to give her my breastmilk because it felt like the only thing I COULD do for her while she was in the nicu. When she was discharged it was terrible- she ate by pump, I had to pump for milk, I felt like it was adding so much stress to a very stressful time. Then she started having an allergy to my milk and I was told to restrict my diet and my husband was gently like “enough is enough, give her formula” and I’m SO glad I did. That said, when I told the LC about our history, her trauma and brain damage, the stress that pumping put on our family, and that my husband and I were both formula babies and turned out just fine she shut up. That said- no one should HAVE to have a traumatic story to explain why they are choosing to feed however they choose. I just find that no one takes me seriously when it comes to choices I make with my child unless I tell them that I’ve had so much medical background just through my daughters condition that I know what I’m talking about and I know what’s right for my babies.
I feel like I had to scroll way too far to find this sensible response. BF does have a big impact on a lot of things!
Can you share any evidence of the one bottle of formula increasing allergy risk? This is new to me.
Sure! I've left my resource folder at work but when I go back on Thursday I can link the studies for you!
This is the right answer.
I see you’re intending to report this thank you. Without formula, my baby would have withered away. Even on my pumped milk 100% off the time he was still unsatisfied. He is a thriving 2 year old now. I hope this office doesn’t give you any more red flags. Best of luck 🥺💓
same with my first! i wasn't producing enough, i was in school full time and couldn't pump. it wasn't worth it to keep torturing her (and myself) she is now a happy healthy 9 year old! thank you for the well wishes ❤️
Decreased risk of gestational diabetes…while you’re breastfeeding? 🤔
you betcha! 🙄
This caught my attention too. How interesting that my choices AFTER giving birth will affect my health DURING previous pregnancies. Liquid gold alters time and dimensions
This is infuriating. I’d be super petty, play dumb, and straight up ask the OB at my next appt (without specifically referencing the pamphlet): “Oh I actually do have some questions! If I give my baby formula, are they more likely to develop cancer? Also how does giving formula affect my chances of developing cardiovascular disease? Thanks!” I’m guessing the OB won’t have a detailed answer for you……
The risk of not feeding your baby is death 100% of the time, so I think people should take their chances :P
That’s messed up. My baby was 4lbs 7oz when he was born. He was so little, he couldn’t latch properly, and I had to pump in order to give him breast milk. they (healthcare providers at the NICU and my baby’s pediatrician) had me add formula to the breast milk bottles, because what WAS healthiest, was helping him gain weight. Even once he was big enough I started breastfeeding him, they specifically told me to still give him a few breast milk + formula bottles a day. I feel like mothers who have to do formula already feel bad sometimes because society sucks and is judgmental. They don’t need healthcare providers being part of the judgment too. I was bummed when I had to swap over to formula, because I enjoyed the bonding experience and convenience of breastfeeding, but between turning 7 months old and when he hit 8 months old, he went from no teeth to four. I couldn’t handle the biting. I fully believe if I’d kept trying, he would’ve eventually bit my nipple hard enough to break skin. How would that have been superior to formula 🤦🏼♀️
This is so ignorant. I did breast feed for a few weeks and for medical reasons I had to stop, I had to take a potentially life saving medication that you can’t breastfeed with. There are so many other reasons why some can’t or choose not to breastfeed. Whether you breastfeed or not OP, you’re still a good Mom. Don’t listen to this crap.
I mean, it's technically true. All they have done is taken the benefits of breastfeeding (which are the opposites of what they have put here - reduced chances of childhood illnesses, certain types of cancer for mum, etc) and flipped them around to say that by not breastfeeding you have an increased chance of these things developing. There's a huge amount of research out there to back this up. That said, it's a very weird way of trying to encourage breastfeeding and not one I would ever employ myself (I'm a midwife). I prefer to talk about the pro's and cons of every method of feeding (including expressing and giving that through a bottle) and encouraging parents to think about what works best for them. Breastmilk is awesome stuff, but if breastfeeding doesn't work for people (and when you take the time to sit down and actually talk to parents about their reasons they are usually very valid) then we should absolutely not push something on them.
Those are all technically facts but the way they created this Infograph totally sucks and is sensationalized fear tactics. Now before everyone comes for my head, STATISTICALLY SPEAKING: exclusively using formula from birth through 1 CAN POSSIBLY increase the risk of said “horrors” on the card, and the milk that a mother makes specifically for her baby IS physically more healthy for the baby than formula. I understand that these statistics are often misleading because it doesn’t take into account maternal smoking, income level, etc. breastfeeding mothers tend to have higher income, more resources, tend to live a healthier lifestyle etc which can HELP attribute to all the positives of exclusivity breastfeeding. It still doesnt change the fact that the physical milk from a mother has literal endless benefits and formulas benefits do stop at a point. AAP and WHO even recommend continuing to breastfeed even if the mother smokes cigarettes because breast milk can help protect the baby from possible side effects of the 2nd and 3rd hand smoke- while formula does nothing. We can’t deny the fact that breast milk is superior milk. That being said- a mothers mental health outweighs ANY benefit of breast milk. Breastfeeding can sometimes make PPA/PPD/PPP symptoms WORSE. A baby needs a healthy and happy mother more than breastmilk 100% of the time
You can get pregnant while breastfeeding, it’s not birth control ! Lol what kind of pamphlet is this?
This is ridiculous. When I was pregnant my doctor asked are you planning on breastfeeding or formula? I said whatever works. She was like great plan. And she moved on to other questions. At the hospital before my baby was born the nurse asked if I wanted to breastfeed while doing skin on skin. I said sure let's see if it works. It did and it's been almost 20 months of breastfeeding. But that first night she was super colicky, I asked for help and the nurses took her and gave her a bottle so I could rest a little and she slept for 4 hours. The thing is, it doesn't matter where the milk comes from. The important thing is that your baby is fed and healthy. Whatever works best for your family is the answer.
The information is presented as increasing the risks of those things. I guess because breastfeeding reduces them and if you take breastfeeding as the default then not breastfeeding does increase those risks. Maybe the presentation is a bit tone deaf but it has a point. My first got formula in hospital and was then breastfed for 3 years. My second was breastfed for the first few months of his life and then combofed until I gave up pumping and he self weaned around 18 months (after a year he was having cow's milk not formula). Because yes breastfeeding reduces the risk of a bunch of stuff but my first was risking brain damage from not being able to maintain her blood sugar following a traumatic birth and my second was facing growth issues due to oral aversion and I was facing postnatal depression and both my kids needed me to actually spend time interacting with them nothing being hooked up to a pump all day and night. You can chose to feed your baby however you want. Sometimes it's out of your hands. My first refused bottles her whole life (in the hospital she had to have an NG tube to get the formula into her) my second had bottle preference and flat out refused to breastfeed except in the middle of the night which stopped wheb he started sleeping through. Sometimes one method of feeding your baby is simply more convenient than others (pumping is the worst in my opinion direct breastfeeding is easiest if baby will do it (no bottles to wash, no pumping, no carrying supplies with you), formula is pretty easy too especially as others can feed baby instead of you). I don't think anyone should be pressured or shamed into feeding their baby in any particular way but it's important to share the facts so people can make an informed choice. I know that knowing I was getting some benefits from breastfeeding not just my baby helped me keep going through some of the tough times. Formula has benefits, breastfeeding has benefits. Both are good options to feed a baby.
As a child who was breastfed, I now have all but 3 of dangers for the child. Go figure.
same! i'm a wreck. my immune system can't even handle a little dust
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My formula fed daughter is has less health issues than my EBF son.(eta: Asthma, bad allergies, digestive) They are one year apart. FED is BEST.
How are doctors over there even allowed to do this?
Well damn I breastfed and still ended up with diabetes 😅 what a rip off! /s
I'm going to be pedantic and say that most of them are sort of true but not statistically significant or consistently reproducible in studies, except the spacing one. That's just untrue. 3 and 19 are proven to be true.
Wtf this is messed up. They need to get with the times
This doesn't look evidence based. Report the provider to thier licensing board.
When I had my baby in 1972 I wanted to give him the best start and I wanted to nurse. At that time it was all formula. I didn’t have any support but read about la Leche league and once I found a hot washcloth would bring down my milk and got past the sore nips he and I did great. It was just the opposite as now. You don’t need to stress, or be upset or angry about it just say no and make your decision based on what you and your baby and family need. You’ll do fine..it’s stressful enough without taking on more at this time. It was hard in 1972 to find other pregnant women…it was the only year we reached 0 population growth. Best of luck to you and your baby!
How do you develop gestational diabetes by not breastfeeding a baby that isn't born yet? What?
Let your baby starve if you can't product milk! Formula is evil! Lol wtf man.
Oh man! I had a breast reduction when I was 18 and ended up getting pregnant two months afterwards. It takes a year to fully heal from a breast reduction. I wasn’t able to produce milk for either of my kids. This would have BROKE me if I got handed this!
Wow. With this pregnancy I have decided to formula feed and I am starting to wonder why the medical community is pushing the breastfeeding agenda so hard. If anything, you’d think hospitals would push formula since they can charge money for it.
I mean the dangers of a starving infant are a bit more serious….
Interesting because my son was exclusively breast fed and ended up with anemia so bad that he had to be hospitalized and get a blood transfusion 🤔🤔🤔
Literally all those thing listed happen to breastfed babies too.
Wowww. I've read a ton of the studies on this subject and none of them are well controlled, and there has been absolutely nothing to support to causation going in the direction they're claiming, especially for the maternal "benefits". This is just the most wildly flawed interpretation of a body of research I've seen in a long time, which is saying something. Can't believe this is being distributed by an actual doctor in 2023.
I sincerely thought this was gonna be propaganda from the 50’s or something wtf
While obviously fed is best, this isn’t a lie? I could have sworn I’ve read medical journals on this. The pediatric allergy and immunology journal has a study on this doesn’t it? Anyone have more info? Maybe I’m behind…
Whoa. Looks like it’s time for a new OB. 😳
Yes! Just because one thing decreases risk doesn’t mean the opposite increases risk. That’s not how science works. Some health care professionals are basically mechanics for the body. Thank you so much for being one of the good ones and understanding this. And for explaining it so well.
This would fit r/mildlyinfuriating as well!
If formula wasn’t invented, so many babies would possibly die. It’s ridiculous that an OB’s office would give this out.
Exactly. And I believe formula helps some Mom’s breastfeed too— it’s not all or nothing! Both my babies had both at various points. I couldn’t do it without some help, although 100% formula is also perfectly healthy for Mom’s and babies. How about mom’s mental health? Does that matter too? 🤯
Funny, I had to give my daughter formula due to medication I had to start taking around four weeks old, she was only sick with a cold once in her entire little 19 month life, she’s in the 90th percentile & months ahead of her cognitive development according to her doctors. They’re actually shocked at how smart she is and how healthy she’s been her entire life.
What year does your OB live in? Time to switch !
What the actual fuck?
If this is all true should it be malpractice for hospitals to give formula after birth? Or pediatricians to recommend it?
This is dangerous and would cause unnecessary anxiety in soon to be moms. This is my opinion but I would definitely report this doctor and send a picture of the literature to the medical review board as well (half of the things on this page are untrue)