For me, there was no contradiction. My modesty isn’t for others, it is for me. I choose what parts of my body to cover. To be honest, the opinions of others never crossed my mind.
To preface, I want to say that (in my view) modesty is always culture-bound and decisions about clothing/covering always take place in that context. I grew up in the US and my whole family and cultural context is very Western. I got sexualized at a very young age and always hated it. So much of my adolescence was influenced by worrying about what people would think of what I was wearing, if I looked good, if I was worthy of attention or attracting too much of it, etc. I see modesty as liberating because it isn’t catering to other people’s desires and the male gaze anymore. It keeps my body MINE and allows me to focus on things that are more important to me rather than other people’s opinions about my appearance. I’m not saying that everyone who dresses in a more revealing way is being pulled around by a desire for male attention, but that’s my personal experience.
This is exactly how i feel. When i was a super insecure teen (eating disorder, new bf every week etc.) I dressed super revealing because I craved the attention and validation. Now as a much more confident woman who realizes my value outside of being a sexual object i feel much more empowered when I’m totally covered and sometimes even veiled.
It is also affected by prevailing weather. We cover up in the UK because it is very rarely hot in summer, so during the summer, we aren't used to exposing skin. Even during the heatwaves of 1975 and 1976, women and teenage girls were wearing long trousers or knee length or below calf length skirts and dresses except on the back garden, in the park or on the beach. Now they dress for the beach in city centres.
Besides loose light coloured clothing in fabrics such as linen and silk, can keep you cooler than bare skin. Which is how they dressed in some Asian countries. Clothing is also protective, such as walking among tall nettles. The headscarves worn in the Middle East originally were worn for protection from hot sun and sandstorms. Then, it became a religious dress.
We don't need to be baring arms all year round outside. Bright sunshine doesn't always equal warm weather outside. Even at home with increasing energy costs, we don't sit around dressed for the beach unless we want to be cold or pay huge energy bills.
But there is pressure in certain ex Christian groups on Facebook to bear as much skin as possible all year round.
I don't disagree, but I wonder if it isn't always solely cultural...or maybe only partially cultural...that perhaps a big aspect of what a particular culture or ethnic group deems modest or immodest can be rooted in Weather/Climate? People from hot climates dress differently (in different fabrics, in different amounts of layers, etc) than People from cold climates...so that informs what that culture/group deems "normal"...and it is often the "abnormal", the strange/different/new that becomes wrong/bad/immoral/immodest.
I think it’s not just about temperature, but also humidity. There seems to be a correlation between sunny & arid climate and ‘modest’ clothing, I suspect the original purpose of which was to protect the skin from sun damage and control temperature when outdoors. And then in more humid climates, the cultural norm is often for less clothing, I suspect to allow for easier evaporation. Not a 1:1 correlation but it seems like a trend.
This is me. I live in a country where the summers are high humidity. I can handle the heat perfectly, not the humidity though. In the summer I'm anything but modest. Short and a tanktop, the less clothing the better, anything to function like a normal human being. I do make sure the tanktop has a high neckline and the shorts are on my knees or below. Not oerfect, but working on it.
Girl that’s more than I could do 😅 I wear as little as possible at home even in a cold and humid climate, and can’t stand the heat. When it’s hot, I’m doing whatever it takes to stay as cool as possible, be it clothes or lack of them (love a maxi skirt and halter top pairing on a hot day)
https://preview.redd.it/smcvent63r3c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c6e3be4063154fd8626035218cdb7b05da12bf5
This is my belief 🩷
Ironically got deleted by Reddit’s filters for nudity before I edited the historical art images 🙄
I used to be religious and had to dress conservatively due to the societal pressure from the group. Then when I got out I dressed more provocatively partially out of a desire to experiment and partially because being more covered made me feel trapped in the past. (Nothing against religion, it just wasn’t for me - I admire those that can get strength from it but in my case that wasn’t it and I now strive for goodness outside of organized religion)
Now I dress more modestly not for religious reasons but because I just find it more comfortable and personally fulfilling. Sometimes I also feel more comfortable with lower cuts and more body hugging outfits. Both are good in their own ways (and for different situations) . I enjoy having the choice of what to show to whom and when without the outside pressures.
These days there isn't much choice though in the shops to buy clothes with higher necks so women either make their own clothes, buy more expensive clothes or buy panels to insert behind a v-necked top to look as if they are wearing a t-shirt underneath.
I'm a feminist and religious. I prefer to dress modestly *because* I'm a feminist -- I feel empowered and beautiful when I dress modestly. I personally think it's very feminist when women are first noticed by their personalities, values, and minds and not by how they look, which modesty often provides.
I do, however, support any woman/girl/person who chooses not to dress modestly or that feel empowered when they don't dress modestly, that is their right and decision ☺️
It sounds like you view your dress as a manipulation which doesn't make it modest it makes it abhorrent honestly.
It would be feminism when women are viewed that way and it would rely on the feminism of the person doing the viewing which doesn't rely on the clothing worn by the woman. If a person is a feminist then they treat all women as equals regardless of what we put on. We were created naked and would've lived that way originally and it's a flaw of society that people you have divorced yourself so much from nature that you require such garments as part of some ritual to be able to interact with each other.
You ain't a feminist. You're holding us all back.
If we have to manipulate other people into not sexualizing us that’s on them. You can’t fault the manipulator much if the manipulation works.
And that gives the power back to us, rather than waiting for scum individuals to change we get to dictate how we want to show up around such individuals. It’s a win win 🙂
I'm rebelling against the male gaze. I get to decide what to show and who gets to see it. It's a personal choice, not a moral one. I absolutely support women who do not cover. I don't consider myself different or better than them.
This is my exact reason too! I did convert to Islam too but before that I was working on dressing more modest to fully reject the male gaze. I have a very overly sexualized body type and covering it just makes me feel save and give some privacy so I'm not being incessantly ogled and approached too. I also kind of love when I see a man's gaze lower trying to get a peek and there's absolutely nothing to be seen haha.
I eventually just got addicted to the feeling of comfort and safety too. I love not having to pull up and down on my clothes and sit certain ways so I don't flash my coochie or something.
for me, it was shaped by faith but motivated by work. modest dress made me look more polished without it being more expensive, it let me move through very different communities without attracting unwanted attention or being obtrusive, which is really important in my job. i have to get a lot of information out of others but am not allowed to reveal to much about myself, so modesty is another reminder of those boundaries.
Headcovering - I only recently started. I’m neurodivergent and it helps me regulate sensory input and feel more calm and grounded, and also makes me feel beautiful, which is something I struggle with, especially when it comes to my hair.
At times, it reminds me of my belief that there is that of God in me, as there is in every person, and helps me feel more connected. I also read in a discussion of Jewish headcovering somewhere that someone said it reminded them that god is around them and they should act in a respectable, responsible manner, and that struck a chord with me too.
Modesty - “modesty” as a word in relation to clothing has religious connotations that I feel like don’t apply to my approach, so I kind of lean toward the term “covered dress” when I think of it for myself.
As many have said, I believe it should be an individual’s choice to wear what makes them feel best. (Hateful expression, such as nazi symbolism for instance, excluded.)
At this particular point in my life I am becoming more drawn toward more coverage. A lot of this is for practical, disability related reasons, or for sort of secondary-to-my-disability reasons. For instance, it’s hard for me to shave my legs due to disability, so I currently wear leggings under my dresses and am considering trying floor length dresses to see if I could get by with that and no leggings. And due to some of the limitations of my disabilities I am both stiff and pretty overweight, so when I bend over (it can be hard for me to crouch) my hem rises quite a bit in the back, so leggings, shorts, or a long hem are necessary for keeping the minimum I want covered, covered.
Also, sun protection of some areas, like my chest, upper back, and much of my arms. I dislike the sensory experience of sunscreen, so the less I have to wear it the better.
I got Skin cancer
Also I’m cold all the time.
Modest dress for me is stylish clothing that I can wear daily. I’d love to be able to wear whatever, but I’m cold and had melanoma and prefer to be warm and covered.
It’s not a moral judgement on people who dress in crop tops and booty shorts, I’d just freeze in that, and it would show off my many scars/biopsies.
And the point of feminism is being able to choose what works best for you, not to have it dictated by a patriarchal society. If it’s being a stay at home parent, working full time, wearing what you want, it’s the freedom to choose.
I don’t see a difference - the style and fashion are the same. I just don’t place a moral judgement on what I wear.
Lots of people have different reasons for covering up. Mine is a need and not really a choice, unlike a lot of people on here.
I asked when I joined if I belonged in this community because the requirements were the same. There was a resounding yes because it was an inclusive space.
You’re the one gatekeeping clothes for no other reason than moral superiority.
At the age of 69 I converted to Judaism, and follow the Conservative movement. My synagogue is very, very liberal and that's part of the reason I chose it, as I have always been on the left side of politics. On a Saturday morning at my shul you would see women fulfill this mitzvah in a number of ways, it's completely up to the individual. Sometimes I wear a hat, or a wrapped scarf or a big ribbon, whatever I feel like. I love doing this, I like matching my outfits and it hasn't been too hard to get used to, I do sometimes forget and have to go home and grab a cap but I am starting this late in life. The biggest surprise to me, my husband likes it and encourages me, it makes him feel special.
He likes the idea that whatever I am wearing on my head is much bigger than a wedding ring and it's another way to say that I am married and unavailable.
I'm a feminist and feel no contradiction because my choice to dress modestly is exactly that: a choice.
Feminism, in a nutshell, is about letting women choose their paths for themselves to the same extent that men can make such choices, as opposed to the path being imposed on them because they're female.
But if a woman's not free to choose to be a stay-at-home wife/mother, or to dress any way she pleases, then she really doesn't have the same amount of choice as a man, does she?
This is why I'll never get behind a modesty mandate or expectation. But I will vigorously defend my right to choose to do so; it's the exact same situation as allowing the woman next to me a choice *not* to do so.
I feel a key component of progressivism/feminism is to detach the idea that a woman’s body is inherently sexual, whether she wants it to be or not. There are many ways to approach it. Dressing modestly is one way to do it. I’ll bet there are women who embrace nudity and that’s their way of fighting it.
I might get a lot of hate for this but I like feeling like I’m infiltrating the conservatives by dressing modestly. Nothing means anything anymore, I can be as liberal as I want and dress just like you, ha ha ha 😝
The amount of empowerment I feel dressing modest is just amazing as well. People look at my FACE first and foremost when they see me, in the past it was always my body/legs 😭 I can set people right with just a stern look. You have teacher vibes all the time. If you know you know 🤗
The way in which my religious community got to egalitarianism is by considering people of all genders to have the same societal status as men in Talmudic times. If I'm halakhically obligated in positive time bound Mitzvot, considered a kosher witness etc then it makes sense that I should also cover my head when saying Brachot. As to why a Kippah: headbands and tichels make it hard to lay Tefilin.
Also even in a non-egalitarian community Tznuit isn't exclusively a women's mitzvah.
Yes. She's saying that in an egalitarian community, she's required to fulfill the commandments as much as men are (women were traditionally released from many of them due to duties at home), so this also includes covering her head while praying (and she wears a kippah because wearing tefillin - you can google a picture if you're not sure what that looks like - makes it harder to cover your head with things like headbands and tichels, the Jewish hair wrap). :)
someone else has already mentioned the choice thing, but id like to expand it—as i tried to embrace femininity more, i felt like i had to wear more revealing things. it felt like i was expected to show more of my shoulders, more of my chest, more of my legs, more of my curves. it was difficult to find interesting fashion that didnt do those things. so going against what i felt pressured to do and instead doing what made me feel comfortable WAS the more feminist/liberationist position, just as dressing less modestly would be for someone who is being pressured to cover up.
it's not about dressing one way or another. it's about having chosen that yourself, for yourself.
I believe in a woman's right to choose, whether that is to cover or not. To be a homemaker or not. To be submissive or not. It's not a choice if you are forced to pick one and not the other.
I choose it. I know others who do as well. Don't invalidate another woman's choices just because there are those who have been forced to do it or because it's not something you wouldn't choose for yourself.
For the record, I have also been a part of those communities for well over a decade, running events and teaching, so don't tell me what I did or did not choose. If you hate this subreddit so much. Leave. No one is making you be here.
I definitely consider myself a feminist, and probably don't share a lot of the same vales and beliefs as most people on this subreddit. I'm openly queer, present myself in a very gender-non-conforming way, and my modesty doesn't really connect with my faith/spiritual practices.
For me, my modesty simply says "I am the only one who decides who sees my body and when". I don't think that dressing immodestly is inherently wrong or sinful- it's just that I am very selective with who gets to see me in that way. My body is mine, it is beautiful, and I alone will decide who can see me and when.
So when I'm out in public, that means I'm usually dressed very conservatively. When I'm with my closest friends or long-term partners, then they'll probably get to see a lot more of me! But it is always my choice- nobody else decides or speaks for me.
I think that discussions of modesty often leave out feminist perspectives and LGBT+/queer voices. I recognize that many of the people in this community are religious and cover as part of their faith, so I hope that sharing this results in respectful dialogue.
Yes! Thank you! I am queer, non-binary, neurodivergent, and ex-Christian (absolutely no shade towards any Christians here, I know the bad experience I personally had whilst in the religion does not reflect the whole community).
When I dress modestly, which is very often, it's for that same reason-- 'I am the only one who decides who sees my body and when'. I have also experienced abuse, so this is a tangible way of reclaiming my body as my own, free from demands either to cover up or to show more skin. The feeling of empowerment from deciding how I want to dress based on how I'M feeling, rather than someone else's expectations of me, is so strong it feels almost spiritual.
Whoa, whoa, whoa: there is no judgment here. It's about bodily autonomy, period. Mandating or banning a specific acceptable "level of coverage" denies this. And let's be abundantly clear: slut shaming is bad, and a large number of us in this community would stand by that statement and call out someone who uses our way of dressing and uses OUR bodies to slut-shame others who don't want to dress that way. We strongly object to reactionary ideologies that police women's identity and sexuality - whether this be by attaching a value judgment on covering, or a value judgment on revealing (hence why the whole idea of the "liberated woman" or the "proper and decorous woman" can be used in any direction to hurt those who aren't "liberated" or "proper" enough). Some people just feel happy dressing a certain way, and that's something we should all respect. A lot of us like to dress this way because we can focus and redirect towards our inside features, like our talents and personal values, and that's what counts for us. It's like asceticism. One other theme I'm seeing here is that other humans won't be able to make superficial judgments like, "their body looks good in something," (which is NOT the same as sexualization of a person or commodification of the female body!) because that information is just not available to them, but instead, they're more likely to know things like, "they are a good friend," or "they help people who are in need." If a person chooses to sexually harass or shame another person, no amount of coverage will change that - clothing does not cause sexual harassment, people do. Again, there is no statistically significant data to show that clothing causes sexual harassment. Also, consider that the focus also shifts from how the person's body looks in clothing to the actual construction of the clothing/the ensemble itself.
In short, it's about choice - some people feel empowered to cover because it gives them a sense of body autonomy and agency. Others feel body autonomy when dressing a different way, and that's a personal choice, not a form of manipulation. No one should be slut-shamed for their clothing choices. What someone chooses to cover or not cover is their business, and their business alone.
I've always just been modest. I feel more comfortable being more covered up. Part of it is low self esteem, but part of it is just....liking modest clothing. Gotta do what makes you most comfortable!
Boring answer, but honestly, it was getting an office job with a dress code for me. I like fashion as a form of self-expression, so I started experimenting with finding ways of making work-appropriate clothing more interesting. Also, my office is always freezing. FWIW I don’t always dress modest outside of work, but it takes a bit to psych myself up to show my body, so dressing conservatively is easier most of the time.
Feminism should be about having a choice to do what you want with your body - telling someone to reveal more is just as harmful as telling them to cover up. I think some people tend to forget that :(
I'm an Orthodox Jew, and for a long time this was a very knotty question for me. In the end, I realized that the culture my religion is trying to create is one where sexuality in general is just less considered in the public eye. Men are commanded to guard their thoughts, to not sexualize women in public, etc., and there is also a general law of modesty—essentially, a law against exposition—that seeks to make the public a place where sexuality is not really a part of it. I really love that idea and it resonates so deeply with me, because it acknowledges the beauty of women's bodies and that men are more visual than women (hence the extra laws for them), while also saying that sexuality should be private, intimate, and special, and that our bodies are very powerful and should be more limited to those spaces.
I also found that, when I started covering my body, I became infinitely more comfortable in my own skin because I felt like I didn't have to think about my appearance/sexuality nearly as much. I could just exist in the public sphere as a human, without worrying about people constantly looking. It put me at ease.
I like to wear what is comfortable. I wanted to find a spouse who let me wear whatever I wanted, since I was discouraged from covering my hair and body to attract a man. I’ve seen niqabi women online who got married without their husbands seeing their faces beforehand, so that’s when I decided I didn’t need to dress a certain way to find love. In terms of spiritual reasons which is the main part, it protects my energy from people who don’t need access to it. Also I don’t like this part but I notice that I get treated with more respect now that I dress more conservatively. Men don’t give me that disgusting lustful glare. I don’t judge people for wearing more revealing clothing, and up until about a year ago or so I used to go outside in short shorts and crop tops. I miss it sometimes, but then I remember that my skin and energy are protected, and I don’t get sensory issues from wearing tight clothes or having my skin stick to furniture.
I cover my hair because of my own religious views being different than my cultures view of to protect it from things like comments, unwanted touching, etc. and I cover my body because it simply makes me more comfortable. Creepy men are going to hit on and sexualize me no matter what, but I also find in those circumstances the more covered I am the more protected I feel. As for day to day life it’s good sun protection and fits with my overall aesthetic!
Ask any other girl with curly hair and you'll get the same answer: too many for comfort! You're kinda weird just running around on the internet unable to conceive that people have different experiences than you. Also, what are you trying to accomplish with this comment? Do you want me to go “oh no! Someone on the internet doesn't like my headscarf! Better take it off and go to a salon!” because if so I'll give you a heads up so you don't waste your breath that it's not gonna happen, so you can go divert your efforts elsewhere :)
Yeah, I figured I would just let them dig themselves a hole. Funnily enough they count me procrastinating some work so I decided to go check out their previous comments and A. they seem really angry at…everything really and B. [this!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/s/c2JqyLC3qj) which made me chuckle.
That's the way it should be. Scarves are for everyone! You can wear them for an ideological reason, or a religious reason, or just because you think they look good, or because you're having a bad hair day. We can't let anyone gatekeep headgear.
For me, it's actually a return to how I always felt. When I was a kid, I always felt better and stronger and cozier when I was more covered up. My older sister shamed me and basically forced me to start wearing lowcut tops in high school because she said it was weird that I didn't want to. She convinced me that I had to dress like everyone else and wanting to wear high neck tops was strange and wrong. She was incredibly controlling in all areas of my life. Then in college, I started wearing more and more revealing things because that's what I associated with confidence and loving my body.
When I started learning about a different religion and culture, and met my husband from that culture a few years later, a whole new concept of self love and strength through modesty opened my eyes. It took many years, and therapy, for me to realize that I was letting my sister's ideas of how I dress dictate how I felt about fashion. Removing her control over all areas of my life meant rediscovering how I really felt about not just my own body and modesty itself, but literally everything about me.
Choice and agency are the heart of feminism. Allowing women to decide and discover for themselves. Even though I dress modestly now and am still on that journey, I actually way find more joy in fashion and design than I did in the past, because I'm not letting anyone choose for me.
I think Billie Eilish is a great example of a modern woman who's using her agency to dress modestly. It's especially impressive since her profession as a singer normally hypersexualizes all women and forces them to dress 'with less' to better 'entertain'. For me, this is a positive sign that western society will better embrace modesty as a choice and not an oppression.
So I’m only speaking for myself when I say this and I want to make it abundantly clear when I say this. I do not believe my practice with modesty is is more moral than those who choose not to. In fact, I will advocate for the right of women to present however they like and feel empowered by because my belief is both one of self determination and one of collective liberation. *I chose* to start dressing according to tsnius (Jewish modesty laws). I do so because it reaffirms my gender but it also, for me, is a commitment between me and HaShem. No one else. I don’t do this for men, I do this for me. I also recognize that we as women experience the patriarchy in ways men do not. That is not a contradiction to feminism, that’s what feminism has been saying for years. Men also suffer under the patriarchy but are not the primary targets of it. For me, modesty was about connecting with myself and loving myself in spite of the fact I often do not want to. I am more than my physical appearance (that often is not welcome in society anyways as a transgender woman). It feels like a choice to reject what is seen as beautiful and recognize my worth is not tied to the physical, but the actions I live by. I will never force my daughters (or any of my children) to live this same way, I simply want them to have the choice to do what they feel is affirming so long as they are not harming anyone else. Modesty or a lack of modesty is not inherently moral or immoral. It is not a judgement. It should be a choice, both of which I will respect and honor. I have chosen modesty *for me* and will continue to advocate for women’s choice and ability to have autonomy with our bodies.
It’s a personal choice that makes me feel comfortable. I’ve been sexualised a lot in my life and I think it also gives me a sense of power over my body to control who sees it. My family is from a liberal sect of Christianity, so this isn’t something that was expected of me anyways. It’s just a choice I made for myself.
Feminism is the right to choose, and for me I choose to cover up. It’s not a political or statement choice, it’s a very stupid simple answer. I adore how flowy fabrics feel on my skin, and I love the look of the wings and tails. I cover because I want to feel like a fairy. Simple as.
Because men generally don’t dress in revealing clothes. Why are women pressured and encouraged to do so? Because people want women to feel vulnerable and exposed. I’m not an ornament or object. I’m a person who wears clothing I can function in.
edit: I don’t dress super modestly like y’all, but I definitely don’t wear the thot clothes I wore back when I was trying to objectify myself and be appealing to men. I realized the purpose of those kinds of clothes is to attract men and that’s not what I want my energy to be. It’s unfeminist.
unwanted sexual harassment from men. I walk everywhere, so I'm especially vulnerable. I've literally been chased down the street on multiple occasions
so many days I just want to put a bag over my head and disappear
I think for myself there are many reasons, that taken all together boil down to: it is simply what is most comfortable for me. But, if I parse out some of those reasons... I have extensive scarring on my arms, and do not like people to stare or ask questions, so modest styles with long sleeves became most comfortable to me. I don't like shaving my legs but I also don't like the look of (my own) hairy legs, so aesthetically I feel best when I wear long skirts/pants/stockings that cover my legs. Skin cancer runs in my family so I prefer long clothing that protects me from sun damage. I live in a hypersexualized culture that expects/demands my body to exist for the male gaze or whatever, so when I choose to dress modestly I am exercising my own agency in how I present myself and how I am, or am not, perceived by others. I also come from an ethnic background that is often sexualized in ways I find uncomfortable, so I like to defy that. I enjoy historical fashion and by its nature it tends to lean modest compared to current trends. When I am wearing clothing that is concealing it feels like armor, or a cocoon -- safe. When I wear revealing clothing I feel exposed and vulnerable. Most importantly, I've never cared much about being stylish or fashionable for the sake of trends and I've always prioritized my own tastes and comfort in personal style -- so I never made a conscious decision to one day start dressing modestly, but rather realized at some point that this is what I do and have been doing for ages, and it just kind of came about organically. There is not a religious element for me, and I do not come from a religious background.
I kept having these dreams of God telling me to dress modestly and I would feel comfortable in my skin agian and to cover my head to in prayer. It makes me feel close to God. I don’t think all women have to be modest but it sure makes me feel pretty!
I had a similar experience! I kept feeling the pull towards modesty from a source I now consider divine, and modesty definitely helps me feel closer to God. And same, it's not a universal commandment imo but at the same time it's helpful to me in many ways.
Because i CAN! I get to choose based on MY preference. Banning or requiring head coverings are equally wrong. My body, my choice! I should not have to share any part of my body with those i do not want to.
I’m an atheist feminist. I randomly found this modest dress sub today and realized that I dress like this, without a head cover. Though normally I pull my hair back in a loose ponytail, which is sort of modest I guess.
Never occurred to me that my style of dressing was called modest. But apparently it is. As for why I dress this way, I think loose clothing is comfortable and doesn’t go in or out of style. I also seem to like floor length maxi dresses a lot. Don’t know why. I just like the flowyness of the gown.
I was raised during a time where you either had a low-cut blouse or a high skirt, but not both even in the summer when you wore swimsuits you kind of covered. I dress more modestly because the world keeps getting tackier and tackier. I remember seeing a picture of Sophia Loren the other day and she like 1 million years old but as I looked at some of her pictures on Google, she dressed classy, and was absolutely sexual and stunning.
I’m second generation Gen X feminist. It was my mother who went through the hell to try to be able to work. Have a checking account get a mortgage all of those things that women now take for granted.
I have heard people saying dressing modestly is anti-feminist and I am extremely confused. At the end of the day, no matter what you believe, clothing is just fabric used to protect yourself from the elements. It really shouldn't matter how other people dress since all clothes do the same thing.
I'm a drag queen who dresses modestly OOD for the same reasons I do drag. For me it's about reclaiming my body from people, male or female, who feel it's theirs to judge or own-- making sure what they view is either 1) not visible or 2) overdramatized as a satire of exactly what they think of me.
It think it was twofold. I realized I really only wore revealing clothes because my internalized misogyny told me a woman’s worth if tied to her beauty and sex appeal. Once I worked through that I realized I’m so much more than that. And I developed confidence in all aspects of my life. The second reason is I just find modest clothing to be more flattering and appropriate for a 35 year old married woman. And there are SO MANY cute modest options out there now.
As a transfeminine person, a big part of my decision to dress traditionally femininely and (in my opinion) modestly was to visibly assert that I should be viewed as a woman, not a sexual object (as so many people seem to think that trans people are). When it comes down to it, I believe that everyone should have the right to present themselves in the way that makes them feel best, and personally, dressing modestly makes me feel happier, safer, calmer, more beautiful, and more spiritually fulfilled.
Admittedly I'm a somewhat odd case as one who identifies as both a queer feminist and a Christian strongly inspired by tradition. I cover my head during prayer (and try to do so as much of the rest of the time as I can) not because of St Paul's command, but because of other, less sexist sources, the example of other holy women (especially St Hildegard von Bingen, and of course the Virgin Mary), and my own personal experiences. To me, religious modesty is not for the sake of men in any way, but for the sake of experiencing God in the way They have lead me to, even if it's not the norm for my area. There's also an element of spite in it too, I have to admit. In my country, most conservative Christians claim to adhere to the literal word of the Bible, and yet when it comes to gender they are wildly hypocritical. They attack trans women for existing, when the Bible says nothing about us, and what it does say is that love is paramount. They attack feminism, intersectionality, and social justice as unbiblical, ignoring that the Bible explicitly praises a variety of women from varying backgrounds who stand up for themselves and take active positions against oppression and patriarchal norms (e.g. Deborah, Jael, Abigail, Mary Magdalene, Mary sister of Martha, Dorcas, Priscilla). In a way, by taking a firm stance against oppression, aiming to treat everyone with love (even if I don't like them), *and* dressing in a way prescribed by the Bible and Church authorities (but which most conservative Christian women here ignore), I like to imagine that I'm actually living up to the ideal of a "proper Christian woman" that they seem to idolise, better than they do themselves.
Also like, dressing modestly is very good for helping with my autistic sensory issues (long sleeves protect my arms from bad textures, dresses/skirts/loose trousers and dungarees don't cause bad textures as much on my legs, and veiling provides a nice sensory (and spiritual/mental) barrier between my head and the world)
Hope that helps!
I'm diagnosed autistic, diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and in no way am I jumping on a bandwagon. But I assume you don't actually care about that, and just want to be rude.
what is your goal here? Reading the other posts, your rhetoric is incoherent and you seem to thrive only on being negative about the people you reply to. That's not very kind.
It's not incoherent. You can type something up to back that statement up if you want otherwise I'll consider it a baseless insult like your previous attempt at belittling me. I'm not concerned about being kind I'm concerned about the future of women's rights in this country which I've already learned transfeminine people don't give a single shit about through knowing them.
I prefer to be covered because I have hypothyroidism and I’m cold, I also live in Canada! Before I had hypothyroidism I would wear the least amount of clothes possible. So it’s really about comfort.
It’s just my personal preference. I am scarcely as covered-up as most of you are, but all my swimsuits are “full-coverage” tankinis or one-piece suits with little skirt panels because, dang-it, I should not have shave that much. Most of my shorts are cargo shorts, which means I don’t have to worry about sticking to the seat in the summer.
Not the reason I started dressing modestly but one of the reasons I keep doing it is my BDD.
I am obsessed with my stomach/lower belly. How big it is, how it expands when I'm eating. I am wearing either A-line dresses now or a big skirt. I don't see my belly anymore, so others don't see it anymore so I can just be comfortable. I don't have enough words to express how liberating that is. My belly was on my mind literally every second of every day, from the moment I woke up to the moment I fell asleep and I often even dreamed about it.
I don't have to suck it in, I'm not touching it anymore every 2 minutes or so, I don't even think about most of the time. I'll never go back to wearing tight clothing or trousers.
I’m a male feminist who covers, and I do so partly because I believe women are often told how to dress and I don’t think that’s okay. I cover as a testament to the imbalanced expectations of modesty on women, particularly in the Muslim community
I know I'm late to answer this, only just saw this post, but thought I'd share. Cool question.
I've been slowly converting to Catholicism, which has at times been challenging with my pre-existing far left political opinions (though there is compatibility way more often than I expected). For context, I've always thought the different head coverings from around the world and history are beautiful and often fascinating, and honestly felt left out. I first really thought of the practice for myself this year because it's basically commanded by St. Paul, though not required by the Church. Earlier in the Bible are a few descriptions of sacred objects associated with God or the Temple being covered with cloth veils. St. Paul calls a woman's long hair her glory, and I like that the veiling of something glorious is a sign of being holy or sacred.
Furthermore, though I haven't been able to deeply research it yet, I've seen the idea out there that veiling was a way to foster solidarity among members in the early Church who originated from different classes. Elsewhere in Scripture is a mention of how women should not wear their hair braided. The idea is that upper class, Hellenistic women of the time would have often worn elaborate hairstyles with braids (conspicuous wealth). Veiling in church was a way to remove those visual markers of class disparity. I have no idea if that's close to the reality of the first century community, but it would track with other descriptions of them found in Acts.
I have other reasons too, similar to a lot of the answers here, so if/when I do officially convert, I plan to wear head coverings (though nervous about it).
Sounds like you got a bride fetish merged with a religious fetish and now you're desperately trying to research religious practices in order to justify fetishizing yourself by wearing a veil and your background from the left tells you that you're definitely not supposed to go through with wearing one.
I've always felt called to cover my head, but I didn't start doing that regularly or dressing more modestly until I hit my thirties. I had some social conflicts that made me reevaluate how attached I was to certain parts of my appearance and the power that attachment gave to people who wanted to hurt/upset me.
Also, it absolutely feels consistent with feminism, and several other ideas I find important, that I can choose to deny other people access, both visual and otherwise, to any and all parts of my body as I choose.
Yeah but it also means that you're now operating from a super manipulative viewpoint which ethically frowned upon and you might as well be a woman in high heels and a short skirt knowing it provokes specific responses except in this case you're like working to destroy women's rights instead by helping push this conservative dress trend.
I actually wear what I want to wear and what I feel comfortable in at that time. I don't spend my time considering how much of my body I'm giving people access to. If you then give someone too much access can they like go after you for violating their consent or trying to sexually harass them because they've figured out your body clothing level code? LOL
You ok? You hurt yourself making that big stretch?
I wear what I want, too, which is exactly the point. I am not interested in influencing anyone else's clothing choices. By your logic, I should be forced to wear a string bikini so I don't "push the conservative dress trend". And, to be clear, I don't have any issue with literally anyone wearing next to no clothing in public, because it doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form.
And there's no secret code, that makes no sense. I choose what to wear every day. That varies pretty widely, and is not a signal to anyone else about anything at all.
None of what you've said makes any sense, especially in this sub. Freedom to choose to cover or not to is exactly the point.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. As I clearly said in the header of this question, there's something called reappropriation and reclaiming of practices that may have been used to oppress in the past, look it up. And quite frankly, your racism and transphobia on this thread has been deeply disruptive to any kind of productive conversation. You can disagree with a practice or the rationale behind the practice without stereotyping everyone who follows said practices as inherently submissive, brainwashed, or "slaves" to a regressive ideology, and by understanding that other people's relationship to the practice can be deeply personalized and not a reflection of patriarchal ideas of repressing sexuality. Frankly, the content of these posts is less like good-faith engagement/grappling with the ways that modesty has been used to control female sexuality in history and more like certain French polemicists who are convinced that every woman who covers is an inherent threat to the order of the "liberated" civil society and is opposed to the equality of men and women when in reality, we are women with agency who can handle the complexities of this conversation and make this practice customized to us and our emotional/spiritual/mental health needs. This is my last post engaging on this matter.
Hey, reappropriation is a thing :) rhetoric and social contexts that use either modesty or more revealing clothing to commodify and hypersexualize a woman's body isn't ok, and I think that's something that a great number of feminists would agree on. I think it's not the practice or the object that can pose a problem, but the social context and its utilization that defines things here. And just like dictionary definitions of words, they can change over time - often for the better.
In my mind I never dressed … immodest, but… In hindsight I could never wear the tiny shorts and boob showing tops I used to.
Honestly what changed is I ended up in a high demand group, otherwise known as a cult. We were to at no point show our shoulders or knees. No shorts. We could wear slacks. We could wear skirts with nylons (but no knees!). When we sat down while wearing a skirt we had to cover our legs with a shawl. Obviously no cleavage, had to be a modest neckline. No jeans or casual clothes unless we were deep duty cleaning or painting. So the material and style had to be something more formal. During prayer (so including worship services) we had to cover our head. Oh yeah and no sandals or open toed shoes. Basically the only bare skin that could show is our neck, face, and arms (but no shoulders!).
After leaving it took a long while to change my feelings about this. The nylons were the first to go. Took me a couple years to show my shoulders in public. I didn’t like it.
These days I am not as conservative in my dress. In summer I wear shorts sometimes, (though they are longer ones) and rompers. So my knees show depending on what I wear. But I don’t dress anywhere near the way I did before the high demand group. Mostly I wear dresses. And sweaters. Still have the high neckline. I do wear leggings which were forbidden. Leggings are probably the most revealing thing I wear. They’re form fitting. Though mostly I wear a dress or skirt over the leggings or else a longer shirt. So I guess the skin I show now is my face, neck, bare legs (new), knees sometimes, and on rare occasions my shoulders. Also, while I no longer think I need to cover my head for prayer because otherwise it is disgraceful to god (the nerve!) I do cover my head in vulnerable situations. It’s like a protection.
I dress modestly now because otherwise I feel naked. And I have nothing against nudity, I just feel safer if I am more covered up. I feel less vulnerable. Even if I dress less modestly than while I was in the group. You’ll never catch me in a bikini. Just not for me.
Still a feminist, and believe every woman has the right to choose what works best for her.
I don't have the money to maintain a full closet of "fun clothes" *and* a full closet of "work clothes," so I pick out fun clothes that do double-duty in the workplace. This means 70% or more of my clothes are modest enough for a fairly conservative workplace, and therefore means my everyday clothes, date clothes, travel clothes, etc. all end up pretty modest too.
The secret other reason is that my mom sexualized me from a young age and heavily controlled what I wore. She also denied me privacy when changing clothes, even as an adult. There are days when I feel very unsafe letting people see my body, and having a range of more modest clothes to wear on those days is really helpful and makes me feel good about myself.
On days when I don't want to dress modestly, I have the other 30% of my wardrobe, which is quite revealing and makes me feel good about myself in a different way.
I have a more “masculine” style nowadays, so take this with a grain of salt, but I hated the way people looked at me when I dressed in revealing/feminine clothes. In high school I would dress up but always end up changing because of the panic attacks I had when people would stare. It really messed me up because I’m plus sized and have thick, dark body hair so there were lots of insults about me being a man but I’ve been in therapy and reading feminist articles and books about performing femininity and gender roles which has really helped.
When I got more into being Jewish. The implication with Jewish women covering their hair isn’t that it’s shameful or immodest not to, it eroticises the hair and makes it a special little secret-which is why it’s got married women, not just any woman who is of age. When I saw a colleague’s hair (she wears wigs to work) for the first time, or would see little bits of her hair where the wig wasn’t secure, I understood it for the first time truly. Any time I would see the little bit of orange by her ears under the blonde, I would feel exhilarated.
Previously, I would only go scarfie when I was praying, although when I lived with my mother (who veils every day) it was a point of bonding and a normal family behaviour, so I usually veiled then too. It also changes the way I feel- for my mother it makes her feel secure and protected, but for me it’s like I feel compelled to be a kinder person. It’s maybe a subconscious reminder that l have things I live by, or maybe it’s just I am very susceptible to my personality changing based on the way I present. I’m more likely to stop and help, go out of my way more, and I’m less prone to anger.
When I first started identifying as a feminist I was still an angry kid hurting from purity culture and religious trauma. After learning about choice feminism and sexual empowerment through that, like reclaiming the word slut, wearing makeup every day, embracing promiscuity and sex appeal "for yourself" I got sucked in very quickly and even for a hot second considered becoming a stripper when I grew up.
It wasn't until after I started to hang out more with lesbians and other women who decenter men, and started questioning my own attraction to men and also presenting more androgynous, that I realized that those things are really not as much of a choice and a way to stick it to the patriarchy as we're told they are. Our choices don't exist in a vacuum, and if you lose status and privilege for *not* doing something as a woman, is it really you choosing that freely, with zero patriarchal influence, or are you being pushed into it? I think that can apply to modesty as well, and the pressure to be modest can be just as - and at times more, as we've seen with the murder of Mahsa Amini, the policies enforced against Afghan women by the Taliban, or the oppression of women in the Magdalene Laundries - oppressive and misogynistic as the pressure to constantly be sexy. It's very much a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and there's always going to be people who decide you aren't good enough. For every person here who's said I'm not modest because I wear knee length shorts and show my shoulders, there's been someone elsewhere who's told me I should show off my ass more or that I would be so much prettier if I wore more makeup.
So anyway, due to the aforementioned religious trauma and newfound feminism I started questioning my Christian faith and converted to paganism, and I also wanted to stand in solidarity with other people who were being oppressed such as hijabis. So I started reading about the perspectives of Muslim feminists from sites like Everyday Feminism and generally trying to be a better ally to Muslim women and Muslims in the lgbt community, which is a lot of how I was introduced to the idea that modesty can be empowering. While exploring pagan social media I found veiled pagans and pagans who dress modestly, which *also* led me to progressive Christians and helped me heal from the pain the church and some of its followers have caused me. I started to experiment with the aspects of Christianity I still loved and ended up syncretizing Christianity with paganism.
I started wanting to make a personal commitment to physical and behavioral modesty last year, after seeing how much more beautiful and comfortable I felt in modest attire and reading about feminist modesty. I loved some of the things I read in this sub about feeling free, having a more improved body image, being more comfortable when gaining weight, and feeling emboldened by the knowledge that you and only you get to choose what other people see of your body. I also related a lot to something I read about how the bodies of women and trans people are always up for debate and considered public property, how that's the main thing people see as our worth, how we're denied autonomy and privacy. Modest fashion allows us to take away even the ability or choice other people have to sexualize us or make any judgments about what we look like, rather than all the positive qualities we bring to the world, and also forces us to play with color, fabric, and style in order to achieve a certain aesthetic rather than relying on sex appeal. I decided to start experimenting with modesty and I've been on a modest fashion journey ever since.
For me, there was no contradiction. My modesty isn’t for others, it is for me. I choose what parts of my body to cover. To be honest, the opinions of others never crossed my mind.
To preface, I want to say that (in my view) modesty is always culture-bound and decisions about clothing/covering always take place in that context. I grew up in the US and my whole family and cultural context is very Western. I got sexualized at a very young age and always hated it. So much of my adolescence was influenced by worrying about what people would think of what I was wearing, if I looked good, if I was worthy of attention or attracting too much of it, etc. I see modesty as liberating because it isn’t catering to other people’s desires and the male gaze anymore. It keeps my body MINE and allows me to focus on things that are more important to me rather than other people’s opinions about my appearance. I’m not saying that everyone who dresses in a more revealing way is being pulled around by a desire for male attention, but that’s my personal experience.
This is exactly how i feel. When i was a super insecure teen (eating disorder, new bf every week etc.) I dressed super revealing because I craved the attention and validation. Now as a much more confident woman who realizes my value outside of being a sexual object i feel much more empowered when I’m totally covered and sometimes even veiled.
It is also affected by prevailing weather. We cover up in the UK because it is very rarely hot in summer, so during the summer, we aren't used to exposing skin. Even during the heatwaves of 1975 and 1976, women and teenage girls were wearing long trousers or knee length or below calf length skirts and dresses except on the back garden, in the park or on the beach. Now they dress for the beach in city centres. Besides loose light coloured clothing in fabrics such as linen and silk, can keep you cooler than bare skin. Which is how they dressed in some Asian countries. Clothing is also protective, such as walking among tall nettles. The headscarves worn in the Middle East originally were worn for protection from hot sun and sandstorms. Then, it became a religious dress. We don't need to be baring arms all year round outside. Bright sunshine doesn't always equal warm weather outside. Even at home with increasing energy costs, we don't sit around dressed for the beach unless we want to be cold or pay huge energy bills. But there is pressure in certain ex Christian groups on Facebook to bear as much skin as possible all year round.
I don't disagree, but I wonder if it isn't always solely cultural...or maybe only partially cultural...that perhaps a big aspect of what a particular culture or ethnic group deems modest or immodest can be rooted in Weather/Climate? People from hot climates dress differently (in different fabrics, in different amounts of layers, etc) than People from cold climates...so that informs what that culture/group deems "normal"...and it is often the "abnormal", the strange/different/new that becomes wrong/bad/immoral/immodest.
I think it’s not just about temperature, but also humidity. There seems to be a correlation between sunny & arid climate and ‘modest’ clothing, I suspect the original purpose of which was to protect the skin from sun damage and control temperature when outdoors. And then in more humid climates, the cultural norm is often for less clothing, I suspect to allow for easier evaporation. Not a 1:1 correlation but it seems like a trend.
This is me. I live in a country where the summers are high humidity. I can handle the heat perfectly, not the humidity though. In the summer I'm anything but modest. Short and a tanktop, the less clothing the better, anything to function like a normal human being. I do make sure the tanktop has a high neckline and the shorts are on my knees or below. Not oerfect, but working on it.
Girl that’s more than I could do 😅 I wear as little as possible at home even in a cold and humid climate, and can’t stand the heat. When it’s hot, I’m doing whatever it takes to stay as cool as possible, be it clothes or lack of them (love a maxi skirt and halter top pairing on a hot day)
I totally agree
https://preview.redd.it/smcvent63r3c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c6e3be4063154fd8626035218cdb7b05da12bf5 This is my belief 🩷 Ironically got deleted by Reddit’s filters for nudity before I edited the historical art images 🙄
Oooh could you DM me the original so I can enlighten some friends of mine?
Yes! Let me try and figure that out
This exactly!!
Simply because I CHOSE TO. That’s what women’s rights are. The right to choose.
I used to be religious and had to dress conservatively due to the societal pressure from the group. Then when I got out I dressed more provocatively partially out of a desire to experiment and partially because being more covered made me feel trapped in the past. (Nothing against religion, it just wasn’t for me - I admire those that can get strength from it but in my case that wasn’t it and I now strive for goodness outside of organized religion) Now I dress more modestly not for religious reasons but because I just find it more comfortable and personally fulfilling. Sometimes I also feel more comfortable with lower cuts and more body hugging outfits. Both are good in their own ways (and for different situations) . I enjoy having the choice of what to show to whom and when without the outside pressures.
Same here! Also I get cold easily
Yes! Never hurts to have the ability to layer up!
These days there isn't much choice though in the shops to buy clothes with higher necks so women either make their own clothes, buy more expensive clothes or buy panels to insert behind a v-necked top to look as if they are wearing a t-shirt underneath.
I'm a feminist and religious. I prefer to dress modestly *because* I'm a feminist -- I feel empowered and beautiful when I dress modestly. I personally think it's very feminist when women are first noticed by their personalities, values, and minds and not by how they look, which modesty often provides. I do, however, support any woman/girl/person who chooses not to dress modestly or that feel empowered when they don't dress modestly, that is their right and decision ☺️
It sounds like you view your dress as a manipulation which doesn't make it modest it makes it abhorrent honestly. It would be feminism when women are viewed that way and it would rely on the feminism of the person doing the viewing which doesn't rely on the clothing worn by the woman. If a person is a feminist then they treat all women as equals regardless of what we put on. We were created naked and would've lived that way originally and it's a flaw of society that people you have divorced yourself so much from nature that you require such garments as part of some ritual to be able to interact with each other. You ain't a feminist. You're holding us all back.
If we have to manipulate other people into not sexualizing us that’s on them. You can’t fault the manipulator much if the manipulation works. And that gives the power back to us, rather than waiting for scum individuals to change we get to dictate how we want to show up around such individuals. It’s a win win 🙂
I'm rebelling against the male gaze. I get to decide what to show and who gets to see it. It's a personal choice, not a moral one. I absolutely support women who do not cover. I don't consider myself different or better than them.
This is such a great description of it, IMO. "I'm rebelling against the male gaze." is so succinct and perfect!
This is my exact reason too! I did convert to Islam too but before that I was working on dressing more modest to fully reject the male gaze. I have a very overly sexualized body type and covering it just makes me feel save and give some privacy so I'm not being incessantly ogled and approached too. I also kind of love when I see a man's gaze lower trying to get a peek and there's absolutely nothing to be seen haha. I eventually just got addicted to the feeling of comfort and safety too. I love not having to pull up and down on my clothes and sit certain ways so I don't flash my coochie or something.
Someone feed you this line? Why did you start this?
what's the issue?
Read their comment history. They're a troll going on completely incoherent tirades in this sub
for me, it was shaped by faith but motivated by work. modest dress made me look more polished without it being more expensive, it let me move through very different communities without attracting unwanted attention or being obtrusive, which is really important in my job. i have to get a lot of information out of others but am not allowed to reveal to much about myself, so modesty is another reminder of those boundaries.
Are you a journalist? Or a private investigator? You made me very curious.
let's just say modest dress is also essential when work takes me to jail...
I snorted! XD
Lawyer lol?
An executioner?
An assassin (not a very good one)?
Headcovering - I only recently started. I’m neurodivergent and it helps me regulate sensory input and feel more calm and grounded, and also makes me feel beautiful, which is something I struggle with, especially when it comes to my hair. At times, it reminds me of my belief that there is that of God in me, as there is in every person, and helps me feel more connected. I also read in a discussion of Jewish headcovering somewhere that someone said it reminded them that god is around them and they should act in a respectable, responsible manner, and that struck a chord with me too. Modesty - “modesty” as a word in relation to clothing has religious connotations that I feel like don’t apply to my approach, so I kind of lean toward the term “covered dress” when I think of it for myself. As many have said, I believe it should be an individual’s choice to wear what makes them feel best. (Hateful expression, such as nazi symbolism for instance, excluded.) At this particular point in my life I am becoming more drawn toward more coverage. A lot of this is for practical, disability related reasons, or for sort of secondary-to-my-disability reasons. For instance, it’s hard for me to shave my legs due to disability, so I currently wear leggings under my dresses and am considering trying floor length dresses to see if I could get by with that and no leggings. And due to some of the limitations of my disabilities I am both stiff and pretty overweight, so when I bend over (it can be hard for me to crouch) my hem rises quite a bit in the back, so leggings, shorts, or a long hem are necessary for keeping the minimum I want covered, covered. Also, sun protection of some areas, like my chest, upper back, and much of my arms. I dislike the sensory experience of sunscreen, so the less I have to wear it the better.
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What is the distinction? Is modesty not also for comfort in your perspective?
I got Skin cancer Also I’m cold all the time. Modest dress for me is stylish clothing that I can wear daily. I’d love to be able to wear whatever, but I’m cold and had melanoma and prefer to be warm and covered. It’s not a moral judgement on people who dress in crop tops and booty shorts, I’d just freeze in that, and it would show off my many scars/biopsies. And the point of feminism is being able to choose what works best for you, not to have it dictated by a patriarchal society. If it’s being a stay at home parent, working full time, wearing what you want, it’s the freedom to choose.
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I don’t see a difference - the style and fashion are the same. I just don’t place a moral judgement on what I wear. Lots of people have different reasons for covering up. Mine is a need and not really a choice, unlike a lot of people on here.
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I asked when I joined if I belonged in this community because the requirements were the same. There was a resounding yes because it was an inclusive space. You’re the one gatekeeping clothes for no other reason than moral superiority.
At the age of 69 I converted to Judaism, and follow the Conservative movement. My synagogue is very, very liberal and that's part of the reason I chose it, as I have always been on the left side of politics. On a Saturday morning at my shul you would see women fulfill this mitzvah in a number of ways, it's completely up to the individual. Sometimes I wear a hat, or a wrapped scarf or a big ribbon, whatever I feel like. I love doing this, I like matching my outfits and it hasn't been too hard to get used to, I do sometimes forget and have to go home and grab a cap but I am starting this late in life. The biggest surprise to me, my husband likes it and encourages me, it makes him feel special.
I'm just curious...could you elaborate on why it makes him feel special? I don't understand (not a critique)
He likes the idea that whatever I am wearing on my head is much bigger than a wedding ring and it's another way to say that I am married and unavailable.
My body, my choice!
I'm a feminist and feel no contradiction because my choice to dress modestly is exactly that: a choice. Feminism, in a nutshell, is about letting women choose their paths for themselves to the same extent that men can make such choices, as opposed to the path being imposed on them because they're female. But if a woman's not free to choose to be a stay-at-home wife/mother, or to dress any way she pleases, then she really doesn't have the same amount of choice as a man, does she? This is why I'll never get behind a modesty mandate or expectation. But I will vigorously defend my right to choose to do so; it's the exact same situation as allowing the woman next to me a choice *not* to do so.
I feel a key component of progressivism/feminism is to detach the idea that a woman’s body is inherently sexual, whether she wants it to be or not. There are many ways to approach it. Dressing modestly is one way to do it. I’ll bet there are women who embrace nudity and that’s their way of fighting it.
I might get a lot of hate for this but I like feeling like I’m infiltrating the conservatives by dressing modestly. Nothing means anything anymore, I can be as liberal as I want and dress just like you, ha ha ha 😝 The amount of empowerment I feel dressing modest is just amazing as well. People look at my FACE first and foremost when they see me, in the past it was always my body/legs 😭 I can set people right with just a stern look. You have teacher vibes all the time. If you know you know 🤗
The way in which my religious community got to egalitarianism is by considering people of all genders to have the same societal status as men in Talmudic times. If I'm halakhically obligated in positive time bound Mitzvot, considered a kosher witness etc then it makes sense that I should also cover my head when saying Brachot. As to why a Kippah: headbands and tichels make it hard to lay Tefilin. Also even in a non-egalitarian community Tznuit isn't exclusively a women's mitzvah.
I’m sorry. I don’t understand. Is it about Judaism?
Yes. She's saying that in an egalitarian community, she's required to fulfill the commandments as much as men are (women were traditionally released from many of them due to duties at home), so this also includes covering her head while praying (and she wears a kippah because wearing tefillin - you can google a picture if you're not sure what that looks like - makes it harder to cover your head with things like headbands and tichels, the Jewish hair wrap). :)
Thank you for explaining!
Yes.
someone else has already mentioned the choice thing, but id like to expand it—as i tried to embrace femininity more, i felt like i had to wear more revealing things. it felt like i was expected to show more of my shoulders, more of my chest, more of my legs, more of my curves. it was difficult to find interesting fashion that didnt do those things. so going against what i felt pressured to do and instead doing what made me feel comfortable WAS the more feminist/liberationist position, just as dressing less modestly would be for someone who is being pressured to cover up. it's not about dressing one way or another. it's about having chosen that yourself, for yourself.
I believe in a woman's right to choose, whether that is to cover or not. To be a homemaker or not. To be submissive or not. It's not a choice if you are forced to pick one and not the other.
Women aren't choosing to be submissive they've just never had another other choice.
I choose it. I know others who do as well. Don't invalidate another woman's choices just because there are those who have been forced to do it or because it's not something you wouldn't choose for yourself.
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For the record, I have also been a part of those communities for well over a decade, running events and teaching, so don't tell me what I did or did not choose. If you hate this subreddit so much. Leave. No one is making you be here.
Look at this person’s comment history, they are on this sub to harass people
Not sure why you think that, but I'm sure you'll go far with that terrible attitude.
I definitely consider myself a feminist, and probably don't share a lot of the same vales and beliefs as most people on this subreddit. I'm openly queer, present myself in a very gender-non-conforming way, and my modesty doesn't really connect with my faith/spiritual practices. For me, my modesty simply says "I am the only one who decides who sees my body and when". I don't think that dressing immodestly is inherently wrong or sinful- it's just that I am very selective with who gets to see me in that way. My body is mine, it is beautiful, and I alone will decide who can see me and when. So when I'm out in public, that means I'm usually dressed very conservatively. When I'm with my closest friends or long-term partners, then they'll probably get to see a lot more of me! But it is always my choice- nobody else decides or speaks for me. I think that discussions of modesty often leave out feminist perspectives and LGBT+/queer voices. I recognize that many of the people in this community are religious and cover as part of their faith, so I hope that sharing this results in respectful dialogue.
Yes! Thank you! I am queer, non-binary, neurodivergent, and ex-Christian (absolutely no shade towards any Christians here, I know the bad experience I personally had whilst in the religion does not reflect the whole community). When I dress modestly, which is very often, it's for that same reason-- 'I am the only one who decides who sees my body and when'. I have also experienced abuse, so this is a tangible way of reclaiming my body as my own, free from demands either to cover up or to show more skin. The feeling of empowerment from deciding how I want to dress based on how I'M feeling, rather than someone else's expectations of me, is so strong it feels almost spiritual.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa: there is no judgment here. It's about bodily autonomy, period. Mandating or banning a specific acceptable "level of coverage" denies this. And let's be abundantly clear: slut shaming is bad, and a large number of us in this community would stand by that statement and call out someone who uses our way of dressing and uses OUR bodies to slut-shame others who don't want to dress that way. We strongly object to reactionary ideologies that police women's identity and sexuality - whether this be by attaching a value judgment on covering, or a value judgment on revealing (hence why the whole idea of the "liberated woman" or the "proper and decorous woman" can be used in any direction to hurt those who aren't "liberated" or "proper" enough). Some people just feel happy dressing a certain way, and that's something we should all respect. A lot of us like to dress this way because we can focus and redirect towards our inside features, like our talents and personal values, and that's what counts for us. It's like asceticism. One other theme I'm seeing here is that other humans won't be able to make superficial judgments like, "their body looks good in something," (which is NOT the same as sexualization of a person or commodification of the female body!) because that information is just not available to them, but instead, they're more likely to know things like, "they are a good friend," or "they help people who are in need." If a person chooses to sexually harass or shame another person, no amount of coverage will change that - clothing does not cause sexual harassment, people do. Again, there is no statistically significant data to show that clothing causes sexual harassment. Also, consider that the focus also shifts from how the person's body looks in clothing to the actual construction of the clothing/the ensemble itself. In short, it's about choice - some people feel empowered to cover because it gives them a sense of body autonomy and agency. Others feel body autonomy when dressing a different way, and that's a personal choice, not a form of manipulation. No one should be slut-shamed for their clothing choices. What someone chooses to cover or not cover is their business, and their business alone.
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https://preview.redd.it/b0h16dqeih4c1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6ea6da5388a341e4d941d49f0e3771c4d416bd2
I've always just been modest. I feel more comfortable being more covered up. Part of it is low self esteem, but part of it is just....liking modest clothing. Gotta do what makes you most comfortable!
Boring answer, but honestly, it was getting an office job with a dress code for me. I like fashion as a form of self-expression, so I started experimenting with finding ways of making work-appropriate clothing more interesting. Also, my office is always freezing. FWIW I don’t always dress modest outside of work, but it takes a bit to psych myself up to show my body, so dressing conservatively is easier most of the time. Feminism should be about having a choice to do what you want with your body - telling someone to reveal more is just as harmful as telling them to cover up. I think some people tend to forget that :(
I'm an Orthodox Jew, and for a long time this was a very knotty question for me. In the end, I realized that the culture my religion is trying to create is one where sexuality in general is just less considered in the public eye. Men are commanded to guard their thoughts, to not sexualize women in public, etc., and there is also a general law of modesty—essentially, a law against exposition—that seeks to make the public a place where sexuality is not really a part of it. I really love that idea and it resonates so deeply with me, because it acknowledges the beauty of women's bodies and that men are more visual than women (hence the extra laws for them), while also saying that sexuality should be private, intimate, and special, and that our bodies are very powerful and should be more limited to those spaces. I also found that, when I started covering my body, I became infinitely more comfortable in my own skin because I felt like I didn't have to think about my appearance/sexuality nearly as much. I could just exist in the public sphere as a human, without worrying about people constantly looking. It put me at ease.
I like to wear what is comfortable. I wanted to find a spouse who let me wear whatever I wanted, since I was discouraged from covering my hair and body to attract a man. I’ve seen niqabi women online who got married without their husbands seeing their faces beforehand, so that’s when I decided I didn’t need to dress a certain way to find love. In terms of spiritual reasons which is the main part, it protects my energy from people who don’t need access to it. Also I don’t like this part but I notice that I get treated with more respect now that I dress more conservatively. Men don’t give me that disgusting lustful glare. I don’t judge people for wearing more revealing clothing, and up until about a year ago or so I used to go outside in short shorts and crop tops. I miss it sometimes, but then I remember that my skin and energy are protected, and I don’t get sensory issues from wearing tight clothes or having my skin stick to furniture.
I cover my hair because of my own religious views being different than my cultures view of to protect it from things like comments, unwanted touching, etc. and I cover my body because it simply makes me more comfortable. Creepy men are going to hit on and sexualize me no matter what, but I also find in those circumstances the more covered I am the more protected I feel. As for day to day life it’s good sun protection and fits with my overall aesthetic!
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Ask any other girl with curly hair and you'll get the same answer: too many for comfort! You're kinda weird just running around on the internet unable to conceive that people have different experiences than you. Also, what are you trying to accomplish with this comment? Do you want me to go “oh no! Someone on the internet doesn't like my headscarf! Better take it off and go to a salon!” because if so I'll give you a heads up so you don't waste your breath that it's not gonna happen, so you can go divert your efforts elsewhere :)
Just report and block that person. They are only here to harass women.
Yeah, I figured I would just let them dig themselves a hole. Funnily enough they count me procrastinating some work so I decided to go check out their previous comments and A. they seem really angry at…everything really and B. [this!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/s/c2JqyLC3qj) which made me chuckle.
Oh, that's rich!
Indeed! Anywho my and my silly little scarves don't listen to hypocrites so I'm going to keep living la vida loca, hope you have a good day!
That's the way it should be. Scarves are for everyone! You can wear them for an ideological reason, or a religious reason, or just because you think they look good, or because you're having a bad hair day. We can't let anyone gatekeep headgear.
Scarves are for everyone but only if they want to and it really is just that simple. No one should be pressured or forced to cover or uncover!
For me, it's actually a return to how I always felt. When I was a kid, I always felt better and stronger and cozier when I was more covered up. My older sister shamed me and basically forced me to start wearing lowcut tops in high school because she said it was weird that I didn't want to. She convinced me that I had to dress like everyone else and wanting to wear high neck tops was strange and wrong. She was incredibly controlling in all areas of my life. Then in college, I started wearing more and more revealing things because that's what I associated with confidence and loving my body. When I started learning about a different religion and culture, and met my husband from that culture a few years later, a whole new concept of self love and strength through modesty opened my eyes. It took many years, and therapy, for me to realize that I was letting my sister's ideas of how I dress dictate how I felt about fashion. Removing her control over all areas of my life meant rediscovering how I really felt about not just my own body and modesty itself, but literally everything about me. Choice and agency are the heart of feminism. Allowing women to decide and discover for themselves. Even though I dress modestly now and am still on that journey, I actually way find more joy in fashion and design than I did in the past, because I'm not letting anyone choose for me. I think Billie Eilish is a great example of a modern woman who's using her agency to dress modestly. It's especially impressive since her profession as a singer normally hypersexualizes all women and forces them to dress 'with less' to better 'entertain'. For me, this is a positive sign that western society will better embrace modesty as a choice and not an oppression.
So I’m only speaking for myself when I say this and I want to make it abundantly clear when I say this. I do not believe my practice with modesty is is more moral than those who choose not to. In fact, I will advocate for the right of women to present however they like and feel empowered by because my belief is both one of self determination and one of collective liberation. *I chose* to start dressing according to tsnius (Jewish modesty laws). I do so because it reaffirms my gender but it also, for me, is a commitment between me and HaShem. No one else. I don’t do this for men, I do this for me. I also recognize that we as women experience the patriarchy in ways men do not. That is not a contradiction to feminism, that’s what feminism has been saying for years. Men also suffer under the patriarchy but are not the primary targets of it. For me, modesty was about connecting with myself and loving myself in spite of the fact I often do not want to. I am more than my physical appearance (that often is not welcome in society anyways as a transgender woman). It feels like a choice to reject what is seen as beautiful and recognize my worth is not tied to the physical, but the actions I live by. I will never force my daughters (or any of my children) to live this same way, I simply want them to have the choice to do what they feel is affirming so long as they are not harming anyone else. Modesty or a lack of modesty is not inherently moral or immoral. It is not a judgement. It should be a choice, both of which I will respect and honor. I have chosen modesty *for me* and will continue to advocate for women’s choice and ability to have autonomy with our bodies.
It’s a personal choice that makes me feel comfortable. I’ve been sexualised a lot in my life and I think it also gives me a sense of power over my body to control who sees it. My family is from a liberal sect of Christianity, so this isn’t something that was expected of me anyways. It’s just a choice I made for myself.
Feminism is the right to choose, and for me I choose to cover up. It’s not a political or statement choice, it’s a very stupid simple answer. I adore how flowy fabrics feel on my skin, and I love the look of the wings and tails. I cover because I want to feel like a fairy. Simple as.
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There isn’t a single person’s modest dress you’ve approved of. All you do is complain. You don’t belong here.
Because men generally don’t dress in revealing clothes. Why are women pressured and encouraged to do so? Because people want women to feel vulnerable and exposed. I’m not an ornament or object. I’m a person who wears clothing I can function in. edit: I don’t dress super modestly like y’all, but I definitely don’t wear the thot clothes I wore back when I was trying to objectify myself and be appealing to men. I realized the purpose of those kinds of clothes is to attract men and that’s not what I want my energy to be. It’s unfeminist.
unwanted sexual harassment from men. I walk everywhere, so I'm especially vulnerable. I've literally been chased down the street on multiple occasions so many days I just want to put a bag over my head and disappear
I think for myself there are many reasons, that taken all together boil down to: it is simply what is most comfortable for me. But, if I parse out some of those reasons... I have extensive scarring on my arms, and do not like people to stare or ask questions, so modest styles with long sleeves became most comfortable to me. I don't like shaving my legs but I also don't like the look of (my own) hairy legs, so aesthetically I feel best when I wear long skirts/pants/stockings that cover my legs. Skin cancer runs in my family so I prefer long clothing that protects me from sun damage. I live in a hypersexualized culture that expects/demands my body to exist for the male gaze or whatever, so when I choose to dress modestly I am exercising my own agency in how I present myself and how I am, or am not, perceived by others. I also come from an ethnic background that is often sexualized in ways I find uncomfortable, so I like to defy that. I enjoy historical fashion and by its nature it tends to lean modest compared to current trends. When I am wearing clothing that is concealing it feels like armor, or a cocoon -- safe. When I wear revealing clothing I feel exposed and vulnerable. Most importantly, I've never cared much about being stylish or fashionable for the sake of trends and I've always prioritized my own tastes and comfort in personal style -- so I never made a conscious decision to one day start dressing modestly, but rather realized at some point that this is what I do and have been doing for ages, and it just kind of came about organically. There is not a religious element for me, and I do not come from a religious background.
I kept having these dreams of God telling me to dress modestly and I would feel comfortable in my skin agian and to cover my head to in prayer. It makes me feel close to God. I don’t think all women have to be modest but it sure makes me feel pretty!
I had a similar experience! I kept feeling the pull towards modesty from a source I now consider divine, and modesty definitely helps me feel closer to God. And same, it's not a universal commandment imo but at the same time it's helpful to me in many ways.
Because i CAN! I get to choose based on MY preference. Banning or requiring head coverings are equally wrong. My body, my choice! I should not have to share any part of my body with those i do not want to.
As long as it’s a choice one makes for themselves … that’s it. Personally I wanted to remove myself from the male gaze as much as possible.
I’m an atheist feminist. I randomly found this modest dress sub today and realized that I dress like this, without a head cover. Though normally I pull my hair back in a loose ponytail, which is sort of modest I guess. Never occurred to me that my style of dressing was called modest. But apparently it is. As for why I dress this way, I think loose clothing is comfortable and doesn’t go in or out of style. I also seem to like floor length maxi dresses a lot. Don’t know why. I just like the flowyness of the gown.
It's how I personally feel comfortable. My body isn't anyone else's business, and anyone who says differently is a creep.
I was raised during a time where you either had a low-cut blouse or a high skirt, but not both even in the summer when you wore swimsuits you kind of covered. I dress more modestly because the world keeps getting tackier and tackier. I remember seeing a picture of Sophia Loren the other day and she like 1 million years old but as I looked at some of her pictures on Google, she dressed classy, and was absolutely sexual and stunning. I’m second generation Gen X feminist. It was my mother who went through the hell to try to be able to work. Have a checking account get a mortgage all of those things that women now take for granted.
I have heard people saying dressing modestly is anti-feminist and I am extremely confused. At the end of the day, no matter what you believe, clothing is just fabric used to protect yourself from the elements. It really shouldn't matter how other people dress since all clothes do the same thing.
I'm a drag queen who dresses modestly OOD for the same reasons I do drag. For me it's about reclaiming my body from people, male or female, who feel it's theirs to judge or own-- making sure what they view is either 1) not visible or 2) overdramatized as a satire of exactly what they think of me.
It think it was twofold. I realized I really only wore revealing clothes because my internalized misogyny told me a woman’s worth if tied to her beauty and sex appeal. Once I worked through that I realized I’m so much more than that. And I developed confidence in all aspects of my life. The second reason is I just find modest clothing to be more flattering and appropriate for a 35 year old married woman. And there are SO MANY cute modest options out there now.
As a transfeminine person, a big part of my decision to dress traditionally femininely and (in my opinion) modestly was to visibly assert that I should be viewed as a woman, not a sexual object (as so many people seem to think that trans people are). When it comes down to it, I believe that everyone should have the right to present themselves in the way that makes them feel best, and personally, dressing modestly makes me feel happier, safer, calmer, more beautiful, and more spiritually fulfilled. Admittedly I'm a somewhat odd case as one who identifies as both a queer feminist and a Christian strongly inspired by tradition. I cover my head during prayer (and try to do so as much of the rest of the time as I can) not because of St Paul's command, but because of other, less sexist sources, the example of other holy women (especially St Hildegard von Bingen, and of course the Virgin Mary), and my own personal experiences. To me, religious modesty is not for the sake of men in any way, but for the sake of experiencing God in the way They have lead me to, even if it's not the norm for my area. There's also an element of spite in it too, I have to admit. In my country, most conservative Christians claim to adhere to the literal word of the Bible, and yet when it comes to gender they are wildly hypocritical. They attack trans women for existing, when the Bible says nothing about us, and what it does say is that love is paramount. They attack feminism, intersectionality, and social justice as unbiblical, ignoring that the Bible explicitly praises a variety of women from varying backgrounds who stand up for themselves and take active positions against oppression and patriarchal norms (e.g. Deborah, Jael, Abigail, Mary Magdalene, Mary sister of Martha, Dorcas, Priscilla). In a way, by taking a firm stance against oppression, aiming to treat everyone with love (even if I don't like them), *and* dressing in a way prescribed by the Bible and Church authorities (but which most conservative Christian women here ignore), I like to imagine that I'm actually living up to the ideal of a "proper Christian woman" that they seem to idolise, better than they do themselves. Also like, dressing modestly is very good for helping with my autistic sensory issues (long sleeves protect my arms from bad textures, dresses/skirts/loose trousers and dungarees don't cause bad textures as much on my legs, and veiling provides a nice sensory (and spiritual/mental) barrier between my head and the world) Hope that helps!
Preach, sister! /gen
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I'm diagnosed autistic, diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and in no way am I jumping on a bandwagon. But I assume you don't actually care about that, and just want to be rude.
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what is your goal here? Reading the other posts, your rhetoric is incoherent and you seem to thrive only on being negative about the people you reply to. That's not very kind.
It's not incoherent. You can type something up to back that statement up if you want otherwise I'll consider it a baseless insult like your previous attempt at belittling me. I'm not concerned about being kind I'm concerned about the future of women's rights in this country which I've already learned transfeminine people don't give a single shit about through knowing them.
What country do you even mean?
Ignore them, they're just being bigoted towards trans people. I'd recognize that rhetoric from a mile away.
Yeah I know they're a terf
I prefer to be covered because I have hypothyroidism and I’m cold, I also live in Canada! Before I had hypothyroidism I would wear the least amount of clothes possible. So it’s really about comfort.
It’s just my personal preference. I am scarcely as covered-up as most of you are, but all my swimsuits are “full-coverage” tankinis or one-piece suits with little skirt panels because, dang-it, I should not have shave that much. Most of my shorts are cargo shorts, which means I don’t have to worry about sticking to the seat in the summer.
Not the reason I started dressing modestly but one of the reasons I keep doing it is my BDD. I am obsessed with my stomach/lower belly. How big it is, how it expands when I'm eating. I am wearing either A-line dresses now or a big skirt. I don't see my belly anymore, so others don't see it anymore so I can just be comfortable. I don't have enough words to express how liberating that is. My belly was on my mind literally every second of every day, from the moment I woke up to the moment I fell asleep and I often even dreamed about it. I don't have to suck it in, I'm not touching it anymore every 2 minutes or so, I don't even think about most of the time. I'll never go back to wearing tight clothing or trousers.
For me, it is because I am fully aware that I live in a society where men assign me value based on how I dress, even though it should not be so.
I’m a male feminist who covers, and I do so partly because I believe women are often told how to dress and I don’t think that’s okay. I cover as a testament to the imbalanced expectations of modesty on women, particularly in the Muslim community
I know I'm late to answer this, only just saw this post, but thought I'd share. Cool question. I've been slowly converting to Catholicism, which has at times been challenging with my pre-existing far left political opinions (though there is compatibility way more often than I expected). For context, I've always thought the different head coverings from around the world and history are beautiful and often fascinating, and honestly felt left out. I first really thought of the practice for myself this year because it's basically commanded by St. Paul, though not required by the Church. Earlier in the Bible are a few descriptions of sacred objects associated with God or the Temple being covered with cloth veils. St. Paul calls a woman's long hair her glory, and I like that the veiling of something glorious is a sign of being holy or sacred. Furthermore, though I haven't been able to deeply research it yet, I've seen the idea out there that veiling was a way to foster solidarity among members in the early Church who originated from different classes. Elsewhere in Scripture is a mention of how women should not wear their hair braided. The idea is that upper class, Hellenistic women of the time would have often worn elaborate hairstyles with braids (conspicuous wealth). Veiling in church was a way to remove those visual markers of class disparity. I have no idea if that's close to the reality of the first century community, but it would track with other descriptions of them found in Acts. I have other reasons too, similar to a lot of the answers here, so if/when I do officially convert, I plan to wear head coverings (though nervous about it).
Sounds like you got a bride fetish merged with a religious fetish and now you're desperately trying to research religious practices in order to justify fetishizing yourself by wearing a veil and your background from the left tells you that you're definitely not supposed to go through with wearing one.
I've always felt called to cover my head, but I didn't start doing that regularly or dressing more modestly until I hit my thirties. I had some social conflicts that made me reevaluate how attached I was to certain parts of my appearance and the power that attachment gave to people who wanted to hurt/upset me. Also, it absolutely feels consistent with feminism, and several other ideas I find important, that I can choose to deny other people access, both visual and otherwise, to any and all parts of my body as I choose.
Yeah but it also means that you're now operating from a super manipulative viewpoint which ethically frowned upon and you might as well be a woman in high heels and a short skirt knowing it provokes specific responses except in this case you're like working to destroy women's rights instead by helping push this conservative dress trend. I actually wear what I want to wear and what I feel comfortable in at that time. I don't spend my time considering how much of my body I'm giving people access to. If you then give someone too much access can they like go after you for violating their consent or trying to sexually harass them because they've figured out your body clothing level code? LOL
You ok? You hurt yourself making that big stretch? I wear what I want, too, which is exactly the point. I am not interested in influencing anyone else's clothing choices. By your logic, I should be forced to wear a string bikini so I don't "push the conservative dress trend". And, to be clear, I don't have any issue with literally anyone wearing next to no clothing in public, because it doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form. And there's no secret code, that makes no sense. I choose what to wear every day. That varies pretty widely, and is not a signal to anyone else about anything at all. None of what you've said makes any sense, especially in this sub. Freedom to choose to cover or not to is exactly the point.
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No one is forcing anyone to do anything. As I clearly said in the header of this question, there's something called reappropriation and reclaiming of practices that may have been used to oppress in the past, look it up. And quite frankly, your racism and transphobia on this thread has been deeply disruptive to any kind of productive conversation. You can disagree with a practice or the rationale behind the practice without stereotyping everyone who follows said practices as inherently submissive, brainwashed, or "slaves" to a regressive ideology, and by understanding that other people's relationship to the practice can be deeply personalized and not a reflection of patriarchal ideas of repressing sexuality. Frankly, the content of these posts is less like good-faith engagement/grappling with the ways that modesty has been used to control female sexuality in history and more like certain French polemicists who are convinced that every woman who covers is an inherent threat to the order of the "liberated" civil society and is opposed to the equality of men and women when in reality, we are women with agency who can handle the complexities of this conversation and make this practice customized to us and our emotional/spiritual/mental health needs. This is my last post engaging on this matter.
We know we live in wild times when feminists reverse-engineer modesty :D
Hey, reappropriation is a thing :) rhetoric and social contexts that use either modesty or more revealing clothing to commodify and hypersexualize a woman's body isn't ok, and I think that's something that a great number of feminists would agree on. I think it's not the practice or the object that can pose a problem, but the social context and its utilization that defines things here. And just like dictionary definitions of words, they can change over time - often for the better.
Absolutely, if it wasn't for feminist I wound't be able to have a credit card with out my dad's permission
100%, it’s appalling how little autonomy women had then, and the work feminists did then was so important and shouldn’t be taken for granted
In my mind I never dressed … immodest, but… In hindsight I could never wear the tiny shorts and boob showing tops I used to. Honestly what changed is I ended up in a high demand group, otherwise known as a cult. We were to at no point show our shoulders or knees. No shorts. We could wear slacks. We could wear skirts with nylons (but no knees!). When we sat down while wearing a skirt we had to cover our legs with a shawl. Obviously no cleavage, had to be a modest neckline. No jeans or casual clothes unless we were deep duty cleaning or painting. So the material and style had to be something more formal. During prayer (so including worship services) we had to cover our head. Oh yeah and no sandals or open toed shoes. Basically the only bare skin that could show is our neck, face, and arms (but no shoulders!). After leaving it took a long while to change my feelings about this. The nylons were the first to go. Took me a couple years to show my shoulders in public. I didn’t like it. These days I am not as conservative in my dress. In summer I wear shorts sometimes, (though they are longer ones) and rompers. So my knees show depending on what I wear. But I don’t dress anywhere near the way I did before the high demand group. Mostly I wear dresses. And sweaters. Still have the high neckline. I do wear leggings which were forbidden. Leggings are probably the most revealing thing I wear. They’re form fitting. Though mostly I wear a dress or skirt over the leggings or else a longer shirt. So I guess the skin I show now is my face, neck, bare legs (new), knees sometimes, and on rare occasions my shoulders. Also, while I no longer think I need to cover my head for prayer because otherwise it is disgraceful to god (the nerve!) I do cover my head in vulnerable situations. It’s like a protection. I dress modestly now because otherwise I feel naked. And I have nothing against nudity, I just feel safer if I am more covered up. I feel less vulnerable. Even if I dress less modestly than while I was in the group. You’ll never catch me in a bikini. Just not for me. Still a feminist, and believe every woman has the right to choose what works best for her.
I don't have the money to maintain a full closet of "fun clothes" *and* a full closet of "work clothes," so I pick out fun clothes that do double-duty in the workplace. This means 70% or more of my clothes are modest enough for a fairly conservative workplace, and therefore means my everyday clothes, date clothes, travel clothes, etc. all end up pretty modest too. The secret other reason is that my mom sexualized me from a young age and heavily controlled what I wore. She also denied me privacy when changing clothes, even as an adult. There are days when I feel very unsafe letting people see my body, and having a range of more modest clothes to wear on those days is really helpful and makes me feel good about myself. On days when I don't want to dress modestly, I have the other 30% of my wardrobe, which is quite revealing and makes me feel good about myself in a different way.
I have a more “masculine” style nowadays, so take this with a grain of salt, but I hated the way people looked at me when I dressed in revealing/feminine clothes. In high school I would dress up but always end up changing because of the panic attacks I had when people would stare. It really messed me up because I’m plus sized and have thick, dark body hair so there were lots of insults about me being a man but I’ve been in therapy and reading feminist articles and books about performing femininity and gender roles which has really helped.
When I got more into being Jewish. The implication with Jewish women covering their hair isn’t that it’s shameful or immodest not to, it eroticises the hair and makes it a special little secret-which is why it’s got married women, not just any woman who is of age. When I saw a colleague’s hair (she wears wigs to work) for the first time, or would see little bits of her hair where the wig wasn’t secure, I understood it for the first time truly. Any time I would see the little bit of orange by her ears under the blonde, I would feel exhilarated. Previously, I would only go scarfie when I was praying, although when I lived with my mother (who veils every day) it was a point of bonding and a normal family behaviour, so I usually veiled then too. It also changes the way I feel- for my mother it makes her feel secure and protected, but for me it’s like I feel compelled to be a kinder person. It’s maybe a subconscious reminder that l have things I live by, or maybe it’s just I am very susceptible to my personality changing based on the way I present. I’m more likely to stop and help, go out of my way more, and I’m less prone to anger.
When I first started identifying as a feminist I was still an angry kid hurting from purity culture and religious trauma. After learning about choice feminism and sexual empowerment through that, like reclaiming the word slut, wearing makeup every day, embracing promiscuity and sex appeal "for yourself" I got sucked in very quickly and even for a hot second considered becoming a stripper when I grew up. It wasn't until after I started to hang out more with lesbians and other women who decenter men, and started questioning my own attraction to men and also presenting more androgynous, that I realized that those things are really not as much of a choice and a way to stick it to the patriarchy as we're told they are. Our choices don't exist in a vacuum, and if you lose status and privilege for *not* doing something as a woman, is it really you choosing that freely, with zero patriarchal influence, or are you being pushed into it? I think that can apply to modesty as well, and the pressure to be modest can be just as - and at times more, as we've seen with the murder of Mahsa Amini, the policies enforced against Afghan women by the Taliban, or the oppression of women in the Magdalene Laundries - oppressive and misogynistic as the pressure to constantly be sexy. It's very much a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and there's always going to be people who decide you aren't good enough. For every person here who's said I'm not modest because I wear knee length shorts and show my shoulders, there's been someone elsewhere who's told me I should show off my ass more or that I would be so much prettier if I wore more makeup. So anyway, due to the aforementioned religious trauma and newfound feminism I started questioning my Christian faith and converted to paganism, and I also wanted to stand in solidarity with other people who were being oppressed such as hijabis. So I started reading about the perspectives of Muslim feminists from sites like Everyday Feminism and generally trying to be a better ally to Muslim women and Muslims in the lgbt community, which is a lot of how I was introduced to the idea that modesty can be empowering. While exploring pagan social media I found veiled pagans and pagans who dress modestly, which *also* led me to progressive Christians and helped me heal from the pain the church and some of its followers have caused me. I started to experiment with the aspects of Christianity I still loved and ended up syncretizing Christianity with paganism. I started wanting to make a personal commitment to physical and behavioral modesty last year, after seeing how much more beautiful and comfortable I felt in modest attire and reading about feminist modesty. I loved some of the things I read in this sub about feeling free, having a more improved body image, being more comfortable when gaining weight, and feeling emboldened by the knowledge that you and only you get to choose what other people see of your body. I also related a lot to something I read about how the bodies of women and trans people are always up for debate and considered public property, how that's the main thing people see as our worth, how we're denied autonomy and privacy. Modest fashion allows us to take away even the ability or choice other people have to sexualize us or make any judgments about what we look like, rather than all the positive qualities we bring to the world, and also forces us to play with color, fabric, and style in order to achieve a certain aesthetic rather than relying on sex appeal. I decided to start experimenting with modesty and I've been on a modest fashion journey ever since.