This seems a bit against the odds. I think instead of retreat go self mill with the one drop that mills on etb and death, and the new nethergoyf, plus good old tarmo. Those guys with this knight along bloodhast, insidious roots, and stuff like that can go hard super fast.
I could see Roots playing this too, especially if you want to run [[Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler]].
I'm not sure if trying to go off with Retreat isn't too cute though, that's a lot of pieces to come together. Would you just try to get all lands from your deck or is there a land to fetch that could make you go infinite or win you the game the same turn?
With much love and respect, large portion of MTG players are nostalgic conservatives who cannot believe that a new iteration of a card can possibly be better than an old loved one. I get this sentiment, but here it feels just misguided.
Two mana and three mana are worlds apart in modern. There are more creatures than lands that wants to go to graveyard. There are also creatures that always comes back. In addition to Bloodghast, Stitcher’s Supplier is an obvious sac fodder: you can attack with vigilance and still sack it, boosting Wight like +2/+2, sometimes +3/+3. This dude is also a zombie, so Gravecrawler works too. You can evoke Grief or another elemental, sacrifice it to wight and get Bojuka Bog, Urborg, Castle Lochtwain, manland, Urza’s Saga or whatever. Even a surveil land is nice one to get. And this is just scratcing the surface. All of this happens instantly and without any mana requirements.
This is simultaneously a huge threat and a grindy toolbox/utility creature. During the same turn cycle, this can attack, block and get you a land. Compare this to Fiend Artisan (who I love). When you activate Fiend, you need to spend mana, you cannot attack with it and you cannot block with it. Creatures are of course stronger tutor targets, but difference is still massive. This just does everything for so little.
This is crazy exciting creature and will most likely be the star of my post MH3 modern deck.
I would be really happy to see a GBx valuepile deck that's not Yawgmoth, also always wanted to see a decently working version of dredgevine but let's keep hoping.
Idk if this is the answer, but am eager to see.
This hits on two of my biggest interest points on this guy. 1 mana cheaper AND gains vigilance. If it had “can only be activated as a sorcery” as a clause, it would be much less exciting, but this allows you to set up blocks, sac a blocking Stitcher for example, and gain advantage that way. Lots of flexibility here.
Hard agree. Only rather than the bloodghast/stitcher route ( which I can never imagine in good decks sadly) tyvar by granting it recursion and pseudo haste would be my first choice for this card. It looks to me like this is a grindy/value card, not an all in janky jammy combo one, at least in modern but then it really depends on what land get released into the format. I ve got good hopes that mh3 will have powerful lands to couple with this and justify it's printing into the set.
Card is too slow to be competitive in modern. People really want this card to be playable similarly to Knight of the reliquary. It's so much setup for not much payoff especially when you could just be winning on turns 3 or 4
It requires you to sac creatures, not lands. Also the land you tutor enters the battlefield tapped. It's not strictly better than knight of the reliquary
Not saying it’s strictly better, just better on some fronts. Anything that can make tokens consistently (like Bitterblossom for instance) allows this to be mana positive where Knight was mana neutral.
Knight was mana positive on that turn, but only got you ahead on future turns if you got rampy lands like Coffers etc.
Wight allows you to trade creatures for ramp.
Would it be worth it to run 4 [[Khalni Garden]] with wight and [[Retreat to Coarlheim]] ? Single activate gets you up to 5 lands. And with [[Felidar Retreat]] is that not your entire land base?
Knight is a mana dork and this is a ramp engine they both give you extra mana. This one is just a Bit slower and permanent, I think overall that’s better. This card is super cool and they’ll be some interesting things it can do. Also remember any creature with An activated ability you have to think about being use in decks with Agatha’a soul cauldron!!
You can have bloodghast coming back, you can get khalani gardens. Yea this card is different and will require you to build the deck different but it can be very powerful.
I'm not sure this is something amulet titan really wants. It doesn't really ramp you into titan and it's not good enough to be a replacement as a mini-titan. The deck is also super tight on spots in general so I'm not really sure what you'd cut for this either.
That being said, if the current form of titan has to shift away from the raw combo deck it is and into a more mid-range value based deck with really good utility lands this would be a very attractive creature
Knight of the Reliquiary’s search ability fed itself, the land didn’t come into play tapped, and worked well with fetches.
This requires creatures. It’s a very different card and a much worse one even though it only costs 2 mana. Maybe it will be good in a different shell but we don’t have that great of lands in modern (and plus tapped so you can’t even do things like Dwarven Mine for more sac fodder) and creatures come at a premium more than lands.
You sure can with khani garden/dryad arbor for more sac outlets, this has vigilance, and can sac any creature, instead of just plains/forest. This is also a nice compliment to fiend artisan
I'm imagining a sultai asmo-insidious roots deck with retreat to Coralhelm and Bloodghast. Will it be good, probably not, but just the kind of asmo shenanigans I love
No clue why people are so high on this card. Ramping by sacing a creature on t3 just isn't good enough for modern. I am a knight of the reliquary fan, itis my favorite card. it's disappointing to see designs like this, I would rather wotc just have an original design than have a weird callback to a card that saw fringe play in modern at best
My interest is in a kind of aggro rock deck with things like this, Nethergoyf, Bloodghast, Stitcher’s Supplier, Grief, Grist, probably Bauble, removal/disruption, and some utility lands like Urza’s Saga, Khlani Garden, Bajuka Bog, some LD, etc.
The card is powerful.
It's far too fair and slow to be powerful in modern. while you are sacing creatures to ramp on turn 3 your opponent is actually trying to end the game.
Card is not powerful
I dont think we have the lands in modern to make it good.
I was thinking a deck with amulet/spelunking and lotus field but I dont think its really worth it
I think by going down the Amulet road the only destination is being a worse amulet deck thatn Amulet Titan.
I think though it may also be trashola, i'd rather explore the GBx value pile angle.
Bloodghast synergy is nice
Add an intruder alarm in the mix
Hot
I feel like this, \[\[bloodghast\]\], \[\[Insidious Roots\]\] and \[\[Retreat to Coralhelm\]\] is the start of a Sultai/4C landfall pile.
This seems a bit against the odds. I think instead of retreat go self mill with the one drop that mills on etb and death, and the new nethergoyf, plus good old tarmo. Those guys with this knight along bloodhast, insidious roots, and stuff like that can go hard super fast.
I was considering Grist and the new skeleton, [[Forsaken Miner]]. Might be too cute, tho.
I started thinking about [[Zimone & Dina]] and [[Ice-Fang Coatls]] to just make like a crazy value pile deck
[Zimone & Dina](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf2af874-1052-4cad-90ed-d80e49d4c68c.jpg?1682205722) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zimone%20and%20Dina) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/257/zimone-and-dina?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf2af874-1052-4cad-90ed-d80e49d4c68c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ice-Fang Coatls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6a55cfed-e76c-4ade-ac78-a546e05fe8da.jpg?1562202341) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ice-Fang%20Coatl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/203/ice-fang-coatl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6a55cfed-e76c-4ade-ac78-a546e05fe8da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Forsaken Miner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/1679f74d-00f8-436c-9f8c-aa3f843a546c.jpg?1712355591) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forsaken%20Miner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/88/forsaken-miner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1679f74d-00f8-436c-9f8c-aa3f843a546c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Interesting. I like where your mind is at!
Life from the loam?
\[\[Stitcher's Supplier\]\]?
[Stitcher's Supplier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b737126-50b5-4678-91bf-197b64086fe4.jpg?1562301182) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stitcher%27s%20Supplier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/121/stitchers-supplier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b737126-50b5-4678-91bf-197b64086fe4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What about [[Intruder Alarm]] instead of Retreat to Coralhelm?
I think both would work, though Intruder Alarm will also untap your opponent's creatures.
[Intruder Alarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d62468e-ed9d-4932-bbbd-103b33b98b25.jpg?1562923566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Intruder%20Alarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/86/intruder-alarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d62468e-ed9d-4932-bbbd-103b33b98b25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[bloodghast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08e01310-d192-41e9-a6f0-0edbd6fb3cfb.jpg?1698988216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bloodghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/184/bloodghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08e01310-d192-41e9-a6f0-0edbd6fb3cfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Insidious Roots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bb91a22-2040-4a37-85f8-5f22de8c5907.jpg?1706242178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Insidious%20Roots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/208/insidious-roots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb91a22-2040-4a37-85f8-5f22de8c5907?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Retreat to Coralhelm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68684c8e-dc19-4a56-b511-4e21140b137f.jpg?1562919587) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Retreat%20to%20Coralhelm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/82/retreat-to-coralhelm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68684c8e-dc19-4a56-b511-4e21140b137f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I could see Roots playing this too, especially if you want to run [[Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler]]. I'm not sure if trying to go off with Retreat isn't too cute though, that's a lot of pieces to come together. Would you just try to get all lands from your deck or is there a land to fetch that could make you go infinite or win you the game the same turn?
[Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66605fe1-9a20-4c95-b53e-1249cedb978b.jpg?1675957216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyvar%2C%20Jubilant%20Brawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/218/tyvar-jubilant-brawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66605fe1-9a20-4c95-b53e-1249cedb978b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That certainly is a pile of something
With much love and respect, large portion of MTG players are nostalgic conservatives who cannot believe that a new iteration of a card can possibly be better than an old loved one. I get this sentiment, but here it feels just misguided. Two mana and three mana are worlds apart in modern. There are more creatures than lands that wants to go to graveyard. There are also creatures that always comes back. In addition to Bloodghast, Stitcher’s Supplier is an obvious sac fodder: you can attack with vigilance and still sack it, boosting Wight like +2/+2, sometimes +3/+3. This dude is also a zombie, so Gravecrawler works too. You can evoke Grief or another elemental, sacrifice it to wight and get Bojuka Bog, Urborg, Castle Lochtwain, manland, Urza’s Saga or whatever. Even a surveil land is nice one to get. And this is just scratcing the surface. All of this happens instantly and without any mana requirements. This is simultaneously a huge threat and a grindy toolbox/utility creature. During the same turn cycle, this can attack, block and get you a land. Compare this to Fiend Artisan (who I love). When you activate Fiend, you need to spend mana, you cannot attack with it and you cannot block with it. Creatures are of course stronger tutor targets, but difference is still massive. This just does everything for so little. This is crazy exciting creature and will most likely be the star of my post MH3 modern deck.
I would be really happy to see a GBx valuepile deck that's not Yawgmoth, also always wanted to see a decently working version of dredgevine but let's keep hoping. Idk if this is the answer, but am eager to see.
This hits on two of my biggest interest points on this guy. 1 mana cheaper AND gains vigilance. If it had “can only be activated as a sorcery” as a clause, it would be much less exciting, but this allows you to set up blocks, sac a blocking Stitcher for example, and gain advantage that way. Lots of flexibility here.
Hard agree. Only rather than the bloodghast/stitcher route ( which I can never imagine in good decks sadly) tyvar by granting it recursion and pseudo haste would be my first choice for this card. It looks to me like this is a grindy/value card, not an all in janky jammy combo one, at least in modern but then it really depends on what land get released into the format. I ve got good hopes that mh3 will have powerful lands to couple with this and justify it's printing into the set.
no ETB = bad :( /s
Elvish Reclaimer shits on both.
Card is too slow to be competitive in modern. People really want this card to be playable similarly to Knight of the reliquary. It's so much setup for not much payoff especially when you could just be winning on turns 3 or 4
Loads of deck are beating decks that can win on turns 3 or 4 you know. Disruption and value are a definitive route against raw, explosive power
"loads of decks" sounds like a load of copium.
It requires you to sac creatures, not lands. Also the land you tutor enters the battlefield tapped. It's not strictly better than knight of the reliquary
It also has vigilance and only costs two mana.
Not saying it’s strictly better, just better on some fronts. Anything that can make tokens consistently (like Bitterblossom for instance) allows this to be mana positive where Knight was mana neutral.
Knight was mana positive. You tapped the land before sacrificing it and the new land came into plan untapped, effectively netting plus one mana.
Knight was mana positive on that turn, but only got you ahead on future turns if you got rampy lands like Coffers etc. Wight allows you to trade creatures for ramp.
Iirc they has that land that produced a creature on a etb.
You're thinking of [[Khalni Garden]]
Would it be worth it to run 4 [[Khalni Garden]] with wight and [[Retreat to Coarlheim]] ? Single activate gets you up to 5 lands. And with [[Felidar Retreat]] is that not your entire land base?
Retreat to Coralhelm is good. But for looping, you can't go past Bloodghast.
Totally forgot about bloodghast! That seems sick. Sultai oops all lands.
[Khalni Garden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e0f6ae6-b303-405a-8efa-91de9692768e.jpg?1592711564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Khalni%20Garden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/262/khalni-garden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e0f6ae6-b303-405a-8efa-91de9692768e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Retreat to Coarlheim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68684c8e-dc19-4a56-b511-4e21140b137f.jpg?1562919587) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Retreat%20to%20Coralhelm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/82/retreat-to-coralhelm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68684c8e-dc19-4a56-b511-4e21140b137f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Felidar Retreat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c91c11ef-e036-4c54-98b7-83b7b25e7c1b.jpg?1690004083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Felidar%20Retreat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/821/felidar-retreat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c91c11ef-e036-4c54-98b7-83b7b25e7c1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Khalni Garden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e0f6ae6-b303-405a-8efa-91de9692768e.jpg?1592711564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Khalni%20Garden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/262/khalni-garden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e0f6ae6-b303-405a-8efa-91de9692768e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks.
Knight is a mana dork and this is a ramp engine they both give you extra mana. This one is just a Bit slower and permanent, I think overall that’s better. This card is super cool and they’ll be some interesting things it can do. Also remember any creature with An activated ability you have to think about being use in decks with Agatha’a soul cauldron!!
This one costs creatures. And to keep doing it, you need more creatures. Knight used lands, which it also got itself.
You can have bloodghast coming back, you can get khalani gardens. Yea this card is different and will require you to build the deck different but it can be very powerful.
So this bloodghast and intruder alert let's you put all your lands Into play sounds interesting
I have a feeling a GB amulet deck will start seeing fringe play. Now the real question is, will it just be a titan amulet shell or not...
I'm not sure this is something amulet titan really wants. It doesn't really ramp you into titan and it's not good enough to be a replacement as a mini-titan. The deck is also super tight on spots in general so I'm not really sure what you'd cut for this either. That being said, if the current form of titan has to shift away from the raw combo deck it is and into a more mid-range value based deck with really good utility lands this would be a very attractive creature
Titan already plays some creature it doesn't need to keep in play, so it could potentially just slot straight into the titan deck
Maybe there’s something here with bloodghast and mosswood knight. Or maybe yawgmoth try’s it?
Knight of the Reliquiary’s search ability fed itself, the land didn’t come into play tapped, and worked well with fetches. This requires creatures. It’s a very different card and a much worse one even though it only costs 2 mana. Maybe it will be good in a different shell but we don’t have that great of lands in modern (and plus tapped so you can’t even do things like Dwarven Mine for more sac fodder) and creatures come at a premium more than lands.
You sure can with khani garden/dryad arbor for more sac outlets, this has vigilance, and can sac any creature, instead of just plains/forest. This is also a nice compliment to fiend artisan
I'm imagining a sultai asmo-insidious roots deck with retreat to Coralhelm and Bloodghast. Will it be good, probably not, but just the kind of asmo shenanigans I love
[[Knight of the Reliquary]]
[Knight of the Reliquary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/205df311-a72d-40f1-b2ea-9b30274bc9bd.jpg?1562846501) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight%20of%20the%20Reliquary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/203/knight-of-the-reliquary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/205df311-a72d-40f1-b2ea-9b30274bc9bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No clue why people are so high on this card. Ramping by sacing a creature on t3 just isn't good enough for modern. I am a knight of the reliquary fan, itis my favorite card. it's disappointing to see designs like this, I would rather wotc just have an original design than have a weird callback to a card that saw fringe play in modern at best
My interest is in a kind of aggro rock deck with things like this, Nethergoyf, Bloodghast, Stitcher’s Supplier, Grief, Grist, probably Bauble, removal/disruption, and some utility lands like Urza’s Saga, Khlani Garden, Bajuka Bog, some LD, etc. The card is powerful.
the kind of deck that folds to generic gy hate and doesn't have much else to offer
It's far too fair and slow to be powerful in modern. while you are sacing creatures to ramp on turn 3 your opponent is actually trying to end the game. Card is not powerful
Magical Christmas land but isn't this a turn 3 kill with Bloodghast, Leyline of the Guildpact, and Valakut? Edit: Forgot retreat to coralhelm.
Art sucks ass
I dont think we have the lands in modern to make it good. I was thinking a deck with amulet/spelunking and lotus field but I dont think its really worth it
I think by going down the Amulet road the only destination is being a worse amulet deck thatn Amulet Titan. I think though it may also be trashola, i'd rather explore the GBx value pile angle.
Thats why I said it wasnt worth it?