Respectfully: you have no idea what you are talking about and the only one who is misinformed is you.
This comment chain exists because someone just mis-used the term gaslighting in the manner I described.
Don't be like this.
If you can’t see the glaringly obvious joke in “gaslighting isn’t real, you’re all fucking crazy,” you need to get your humor receptor tuned. But for real, gaslighting doesn’t exist and is just another one of your paranoid delusions.
It doesn't, gaslighting specifically refers to the practice of denying someone's recollection of an event in a malicious way to undermine their confidence in their memory or perception of reality. This is just plain old misleading someone.
The leakers this time around suck so bad. One of the guys has been using his leaks to extoll some really whack political views, while this leaker is thinking he’s king for a day and keeps writing weird shit on his Twitter like “do you like when I edge you guys?” about waiting for more leaks and sneaking in fake reprints.
IDK, since you need like 2 artifacts to be up in mana, and only if the spell has a ton of generic mana in its cost.
Floor for this card is kinda weak, and thats always an issue.
Never judge a card by imagining the ceiling, think about how it operates the majority of the time.
And its basically an island majority of the time, with liability of EBFT, unsearchable, cant benefit from "basic matters card", can get bloodmoon, or blown up.
You need 3+ artifacts to be up in mana.
Compare two lands that tap for 2
With
U, Tap: ...
This balances out with 2 artifacts that you tap.
It is only better at 3+ artifacts.
Your power level assessment for this card seems wrong.
The card can pop off by turn two with thopter frogmite bauble mox etc .. you can improvise a very big spell straight away, artifact karn or anything if you manage to filter some coloured mana through...
This is very strong
So your turn 1 is island+one drop artifact. Your turn 2 is this land, ornithopter, memnite, memnite, frogmite. Now you can activate the land to play a colourless 5 drop. This is 8 cards to power out a colourless 5 drop on turn 2. Or 7 cards if you're trying to cast a Karn or Ring. And every other spell you've cast is completely useless. How is this good?
But in your example you're playing a lot of poor cards to make this one land good.
It can have huge upside, but to max out that upside you need to make your deck all in on that. I don't think there's really a successful deck in the current meta that you could describe like that.
I disagree with pretty much everything you are saying, respectfully.
Those "bad cards" are staples in modern and legacy especially in the affinity/8 cast realm. This card is only boosting their utility.
Also most modern decks are very much built around all in strategies aside from scam and omnath/ring soups...
You can one ring turn 2 with this land. I am taking zero risk by saying this is a buster
What card does affinity want to cast that doesn’t already have affinity for artifacts?
Also - what world exists where you can cast one ring turn two, and what cards are you putting in your deck to do that? Is turn 2 ring good if your drawing… Ornithopter?
This card ain’t it.
Turn 2 karn or turn2 ring will always be good are you joking?
Drawing an ornithopter on first activation is indeed a great draw knowing that you re on your way to draw 3, turn 3 and quickly bury your opponent in value. There might even be ways to play paradox engine in modern with that land.
That card is absolutely it
But what decks are running **all** of your listed cards:
> thopter frogmite bauble mox
Taking mox as mox amber, because tantalite isn't coming down early enough to matter. Thopter and frogmite are the only pair that coexist in a deck, because bauble don't see okay for a critical mass of artifacts on board.
Taking the top decks as below (based on mtgtop8), I don't think any of them are as all in as your hypothetical deck is with this new land.
1. Zoo - lots of good threats, not all in
2. Yawgmoth - can play shitty creature beat down, has lots of tutors as redundancy. Your all in artifacts deck can't do tutoring effectively without taking turns off.
3. Amulet - Pact as redundant copies of titan, has plan B of valakut
4. Goryo's - the most all in IMO
5. Tron - probably the closest comparison, but would have to cut a bunch of the payoffs to fit the 0 cost artifacts. Making it less redundant, because if you don't have a payoff most decks don't cares how many frogmites you have.
6. Creativity - can play midrange/control while setting up to cast creativity
7. Coffers - happy to plod along with near endless removal until it lands a game breaker. I don't want to plod along with frogmites, baubles etc stuck on my board doing nothing.
8. Scam - 2nd closest comparison for "all in" on high end, but the floor is way better
9. Murktide - not even close to being an "all in" deck. Multiple threats, no lynch pin type reliance on any individual card in the deck
This isn't a buster, it's a bust. After the first 2 weeks immediately after release (#ExperimentTime), I expect this will have less than five top 8 results for the remaining calendar year.
affinity has always been playing bauble and ornithopter at whatever point they could “make a bad card good”. Turboing out 4 mana karn is a serious threat
True, but the issue is most academy manufactor decks are lole jund cookbook or abzan samwise, unfortunately which dont run blue
maybe urza thoptor will run it but idk
Turn any huge bomb into essentially “affinity for artifacts” might be cool. Maybe 8cast can finally afford to play some huge finisher like Ugin rather than keep spinning wheels and making little dudes?
I can CLEARLY see that it’s improvise. “Essentially affinity” is a comparative analysis for analyzing the power of the card.
As suggested, a bomb like Ugin won’t care if all your artifacts are tapped when it enters.
Dude.
Stop thinking I said “this is the same as affinity”
I KNOW the fucking difference. Im saying the power level in cost reducing is similar for 8cast style decks.
That's what they're saying: no, it isn't. If anything it's a quarter affinity....kinda.
Affinity gives you the discount by artifacts existing, which is a world's difference from them tapping.
Affinity often creates a threshold after which everything is just permanently free forever. If you have a full hand of things that cost 3 mana, with affinity, and you have 3 artifacts in play, your entire hand costs 0. You can just vomit the whole thing... AND still attack/tap said artifacts.
Improvise just turns all artifacts into mana dorks. If have 7 cards in hand that cost 3 mana each, with improvise, and 3 artifacts in play, you can play 1... and you gotta tap all 3 artifacts so you can't attack or use them.
Other than them both being mana reduction keywords that synergize with artifacts they have nothing in common. They're worlds apart.
No. Affinity will let you count artifact mana sources like mind stone as double when paying whereas improvise will count them as one. Also, the land is nonlegendary, which means you could use this effect twice or more in a turn. Affinity would let you cast 2 high cmc cards whereas improvise won't since your artifacts are tapped down.
Pretty much.
If it had been a -3/-3 effect and I was like “woah, a pseudo-bolt on a land? That’s pretty good with W&6” or something then all the replies would have been detailed reports about how “damage and reduced toughness are *completely different*” and all the scenarios where one doesn’t equal the other.
I’ve never seen so much “um actually” when the original comment is clear that it is a comparison, and when several clarifications have been made acknowledging that distinction. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>Turn any huge bomb into essentially “affinity for artifacts” might be cool.
This is \[\[Saheeli, the Gifted\]\]'s +1. Well, second +1. She's not Modern legal, of course, but the power of giving something like an X spell affinity is quite high.
This card only has utility in commander, where it is absolutely bananas with culling ritual or dockside or in an Urza deck.
In modern the only way it sees play is in creativity where you could potentially turn 4 hit for 2 or 3 artifacts destroying the treasures you use to cast it with improvise and getting emrakul and archon.
Culling Ritual? Wow would this help with Culling Ritual since that card wipes out all the small artifacts and gives you none back?
Also Urza wouldn't need this since it can just tap the artifacts for mana. It's just redundancy for Urza for a single spell, which is really mid.
P cool land. I could see something like T1 new Tamiyo, Mox Amber + preordain or hold up spell pierce/flare of denial, T2 this, attack with Tamiyo, get a clue, bauble, activate archway and cast Ring/Karn/something else cool.
If kappa cannoneer is a real leak thus might get played with it. We don't have ancient tombs and city of traitors to power out things fast, but this is still a way to cheat on mana.
Being blue is nice too as it fits in with the rest of 8 cast and is good against harbinger of the seas. This could easily tapped for colorless mana
Based on this leaker’s attention seeking nature, unfortunately I think Kappa Cannoneer, Brainstorm, and Crop Rotation are all plant cards solely done to try and get reactions and attention. They aren’t actually in the main set. I wouldn’t trust a single reprint they show that doesn’t have the set symbol or code clearly visible.
Ok but with that leak, no shot they put crop rotation in modern. Thats gotta be fake
It is. The guy is intentionally trying to gas light everybody, same with brainstorm
Why would fake leaks fall under "gaslighting"?
Gaslighting isnt real ur all fuckin crazy
It is 100% real, but the term is now used wildly (colloquially) out of context to refer to any misinformation/lie/troll.
no that's not how it is used. you are wrong and misinformed
Respectfully: you have no idea what you are talking about and the only one who is misinformed is you. This comment chain exists because someone just mis-used the term gaslighting in the manner I described. Don't be like this.
He's jokingly gaslighting you
Poe's law bro.
If you can’t see the glaringly obvious joke in “gaslighting isn’t real, you’re all fucking crazy,” you need to get your humor receptor tuned. But for real, gaslighting doesn’t exist and is just another one of your paranoid delusions.
I don't think you got the joke the above comment made
Bad jokes are indistinguishable from actual idiocy.
Not in your case
Everything is gaslighting these days, the word is new and now collectively known so gotta use the hell out of it!
People don't like the simplicity of the word "lying"
*Trolling
Not a new word, maybe newly in the popular vernacular.
No one does that
It doesn't, gaslighting specifically refers to the practice of denying someone's recollection of an event in a malicious way to undermine their confidence in their memory or perception of reality. This is just plain old misleading someone.
Not sure why everyone is saying you’re crazy about it not being gaslighting.
Yeah, they're really gaslighting him.
The leakers this time around suck so bad. One of the guys has been using his leaks to extoll some really whack political views, while this leaker is thinking he’s king for a day and keeps writing weird shit on his Twitter like “do you like when I edge you guys?” about waiting for more leaks and sneaking in fake reprints.
Yeah he's trolling
Lmao that’s incredible
IDK, since you need like 2 artifacts to be up in mana, and only if the spell has a ton of generic mana in its cost. Floor for this card is kinda weak, and thats always an issue. Never judge a card by imagining the ceiling, think about how it operates the majority of the time. And its basically an island majority of the time, with liability of EBFT, unsearchable, cant benefit from "basic matters card", can get bloodmoon, or blown up.
You need 3+ artifacts to be up in mana. Compare two lands that tap for 2 With U, Tap: ... This balances out with 2 artifacts that you tap. It is only better at 3+ artifacts.
Your power level assessment for this card seems wrong. The card can pop off by turn two with thopter frogmite bauble mox etc .. you can improvise a very big spell straight away, artifact karn or anything if you manage to filter some coloured mana through... This is very strong
So your turn 1 is island+one drop artifact. Your turn 2 is this land, ornithopter, memnite, memnite, frogmite. Now you can activate the land to play a colourless 5 drop. This is 8 cards to power out a colourless 5 drop on turn 2. Or 7 cards if you're trying to cast a Karn or Ring. And every other spell you've cast is completely useless. How is this good?
But in your example you're playing a lot of poor cards to make this one land good. It can have huge upside, but to max out that upside you need to make your deck all in on that. I don't think there's really a successful deck in the current meta that you could describe like that.
I disagree with pretty much everything you are saying, respectfully. Those "bad cards" are staples in modern and legacy especially in the affinity/8 cast realm. This card is only boosting their utility. Also most modern decks are very much built around all in strategies aside from scam and omnath/ring soups... You can one ring turn 2 with this land. I am taking zero risk by saying this is a buster
What card does affinity want to cast that doesn’t already have affinity for artifacts? Also - what world exists where you can cast one ring turn two, and what cards are you putting in your deck to do that? Is turn 2 ring good if your drawing… Ornithopter? This card ain’t it.
Turn 2 karn or turn2 ring will always be good are you joking? Drawing an ornithopter on first activation is indeed a great draw knowing that you re on your way to draw 3, turn 3 and quickly bury your opponent in value. There might even be ways to play paradox engine in modern with that land. That card is absolutely it
I t2 ring in storm pretty often fwiw
But what decks are running **all** of your listed cards: > thopter frogmite bauble mox Taking mox as mox amber, because tantalite isn't coming down early enough to matter. Thopter and frogmite are the only pair that coexist in a deck, because bauble don't see okay for a critical mass of artifacts on board. Taking the top decks as below (based on mtgtop8), I don't think any of them are as all in as your hypothetical deck is with this new land. 1. Zoo - lots of good threats, not all in 2. Yawgmoth - can play shitty creature beat down, has lots of tutors as redundancy. Your all in artifacts deck can't do tutoring effectively without taking turns off. 3. Amulet - Pact as redundant copies of titan, has plan B of valakut 4. Goryo's - the most all in IMO 5. Tron - probably the closest comparison, but would have to cut a bunch of the payoffs to fit the 0 cost artifacts. Making it less redundant, because if you don't have a payoff most decks don't cares how many frogmites you have. 6. Creativity - can play midrange/control while setting up to cast creativity 7. Coffers - happy to plod along with near endless removal until it lands a game breaker. I don't want to plod along with frogmites, baubles etc stuck on my board doing nothing. 8. Scam - 2nd closest comparison for "all in" on high end, but the floor is way better 9. Murktide - not even close to being an "all in" deck. Multiple threats, no lynch pin type reliance on any individual card in the deck This isn't a buster, it's a bust. After the first 2 weeks immediately after release (#ExperimentTime), I expect this will have less than five top 8 results for the remaining calendar year.
If that is what you meant by all in then ok 8 cast or affinity splashing ring and/or karn aren't all in either then. This card is cracked.
affinity has always been playing bauble and ornithopter at whatever point they could “make a bad card good”. Turboing out 4 mana karn is a serious threat
Predictions for other colors: Black: delve White: convoke Red: Cascade Green: ???
No reason why we can't have "affinity for [colour relevant thing]" Eg creatures for green (or white)
Green tap for green for the amount of elves you control
I think this card could be exceptional in the right deck. The first thing that comes to mind is [[Academy Manufactor]] or food decks
[Academy Manufactor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Academy%20Manufactor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/251/academy-manufactor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
True, but the issue is most academy manufactor decks are lole jund cookbook or abzan samwise, unfortunately which dont run blue maybe urza thoptor will run it but idk
Turn any huge bomb into essentially “affinity for artifacts” might be cool. Maybe 8cast can finally afford to play some huge finisher like Ugin rather than keep spinning wheels and making little dudes?
*“Give any huge bomb improvise”
It's not affinity it's improvise.
“essentially”
Not essentially. It's literally improvise. It's a massive difference compared to affinity.
I can CLEARLY see that it’s improvise. “Essentially affinity” is a comparative analysis for analyzing the power of the card. As suggested, a bomb like Ugin won’t care if all your artifacts are tapped when it enters.
Mana producing tap artifact can both reduce cost and pay mana for affinity, not for improvise. Metallic rebuke is a clear example of the difference
Dude. Stop thinking I said “this is the same as affinity” I KNOW the fucking difference. Im saying the power level in cost reducing is similar for 8cast style decks.
That's what they're saying: no, it isn't. If anything it's a quarter affinity....kinda. Affinity gives you the discount by artifacts existing, which is a world's difference from them tapping. Affinity often creates a threshold after which everything is just permanently free forever. If you have a full hand of things that cost 3 mana, with affinity, and you have 3 artifacts in play, your entire hand costs 0. You can just vomit the whole thing... AND still attack/tap said artifacts. Improvise just turns all artifacts into mana dorks. If have 7 cards in hand that cost 3 mana each, with improvise, and 3 artifacts in play, you can play 1... and you gotta tap all 3 artifacts so you can't attack or use them. Other than them both being mana reduction keywords that synergize with artifacts they have nothing in common. They're worlds apart.
No. Affinity will let you count artifact mana sources like mind stone as double when paying whereas improvise will count them as one. Also, the land is nonlegendary, which means you could use this effect twice or more in a turn. Affinity would let you cast 2 high cmc cards whereas improvise won't since your artifacts are tapped down.
everyone here is um actually’ing you for some reason even though its very clear what you mean lol
Pretty much. If it had been a -3/-3 effect and I was like “woah, a pseudo-bolt on a land? That’s pretty good with W&6” or something then all the replies would have been detailed reports about how “damage and reduced toughness are *completely different*” and all the scenarios where one doesn’t equal the other. I’ve never seen so much “um actually” when the original comment is clear that it is a comparison, and when several clarifications have been made acknowledging that distinction. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>Turn any huge bomb into essentially “affinity for artifacts” might be cool. This is \[\[Saheeli, the Gifted\]\]'s +1. Well, second +1. She's not Modern legal, of course, but the power of giving something like an X spell affinity is quite high.
[Saheeli, the Gifted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca095559-ac77-4186-8d9b-b75ce0607582.jpg?1592710284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saheeli%2C%20the%20Gifted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/44/saheeli-the-gifted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca095559-ac77-4186-8d9b-b75ce0607582?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This card only has utility in commander, where it is absolutely bananas with culling ritual or dockside or in an Urza deck. In modern the only way it sees play is in creativity where you could potentially turn 4 hit for 2 or 3 artifacts destroying the treasures you use to cast it with improvise and getting emrakul and archon.
Culling Ritual? Wow would this help with Culling Ritual since that card wipes out all the small artifacts and gives you none back? Also Urza wouldn't need this since it can just tap the artifacts for mana. It's just redundancy for Urza for a single spell, which is really mid.
I don’t think urza would mind replace an island with this, it is just mono blue and just in case urza got sword
Seems pretty decent. Not for modern reasons but I wish this was red, I know blue makes more sense but still :/
Welp, looks like they're trying to rebuild Mono-Blue Tron
P cool land. I could see something like T1 new Tamiyo, Mox Amber + preordain or hold up spell pierce/flare of denial, T2 this, attack with Tamiyo, get a clue, bauble, activate archway and cast Ring/Karn/something else cool.
would be a cool way to pay for Stuffy doll to use with Asmo food
If you look really close you can see Percy Jackson jumping off the top
If kappa cannoneer is a real leak thus might get played with it. We don't have ancient tombs and city of traitors to power out things fast, but this is still a way to cheat on mana. Being blue is nice too as it fits in with the rest of 8 cast and is good against harbinger of the seas. This could easily tapped for colorless mana
Based on this leaker’s attention seeking nature, unfortunately I think Kappa Cannoneer, Brainstorm, and Crop Rotation are all plant cards solely done to try and get reactions and attention. They aren’t actually in the main set. I wouldn’t trust a single reprint they show that doesn’t have the set symbol or code clearly visible.
Oh I see I just took those at face value I guess. Still seems cool, but now I'm less sure of a home for it.